Feathered beams issue

[Paul Hodges]

When I feather these beams, the third beam is simply absent.  I suppose this is 
a bug (or an undocumented "limitation"?), but is there a practical workaround?


I guess I also need to make the beam thickness less so that the structure 
becomes more visible, though I suspect that will be less of a problem when I 
add the \featherDurations command.


Regards,
Paul

FeatheredBeamsIssue.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document


FeatheredBeamsIssue.ly
Description: Binary data

Feathered beams proportional spacing with completion heads engraver

[Mansour Aoun]

Hello everyone, 

My problem comes from the incompatibility of proportionally spacing the
notes within feathered beams and the completion heads engraver. I'm trying
to achieve this result (in the manual):


But the completion heads engraver completely messes it up, forcing me to
choose a regular spacing ratio like 4/4. So I have to either force-move the
36 notes individually (witch I still cannot do without messing the spacing
of the other instruments), change to the normal head engraver mid-score
(which I also didn't succeed at doing) or make an irregular spacing ratio
like 2/1 work in the context of the completion heads engraver. You can find
my score attached. 
<http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/file/t5738/Screenshot_2019-04-03_at_01.png>
 

Any help would be greatly appreciated !
Thanks



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Re: synchronization of feathered beams

[Kieren MacMillan]

p.s. Notice how telling Lilypond to consider the feathered measure separately 
from the rest, it does something different spacing-wise (which may or may not 
be what you want):

\version "2.19.82"

\layout {
  system-count = 4
}
\new Staff
\relative c' {
  \newSpacingSection
 \override Beam.grow-direction = #LEFT
 \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 7/1)
 {c32[ d e f g f g f]}  c4 c c |
 \revert Beam.grow-direction
  \newSpacingSection
 c4 e d c c1 d e c c c c c c c c
}

Please read the manual carefully as to all the spacing options — they really 
are remarkably flexible and complete.

Cheers,
Kieren.


Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info


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Re: synchronization of feathered beams

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Reggie,

> Show me how as the work continues "naturally"" it would
> space out. It doesn't it's always clumpy.
[…]
> It looks terrible even worse with testing breaks.

Lilypond is satisfying the requirements you have provided, either via explicit 
breaks (see your examples) or system-count (see example, below) or by offering 
nothing (in which case, Lilypond applies its default spacing algorithm):

\version "2.19.82"

\layout {
  system-count = 4
}
\new Staff
\relative c' {
 \override Beam.grow-direction = #LEFT
 \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 7/1)
 {c32[ d e f g f g f]}  c4 c c |
 \revert Beam.grow-direction
 c4 e d c c1 d e c c c c c c c c
}

If you want different spacing, tell Lilypond how you want it spaced.  =)

Cheers,
Kieren.


Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info


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Re: synchronization of feathered beams

[Reggie]

Kieren MacMillan wrote
> Hi Reggie,
> 
>> WHy does measure now have no spacing out duration even though I use { }
>> around the whole feather area? See it works then it doesn't work.
> 
> No… it works and then it still works.  ;)
> 
> \new Staff
> \relative c' {
>  \override Beam.grow-direction = #LEFT
>  \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 2 1)
>  { c32[ d e f g f g f] }  c4 c c | \break
>  \revert Beam.grow-direction
>  c4 e d f c d e f d f
> }
> 
> You just don’t have enough space in that measure/system for the spacing to
> display effectively.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> Kieren.
> 
> 
> Kieren MacMillan, composer
> ‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
> ‣ email: 

> info@

> 
> 
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Sorry but no. It looks terrible even worse with testing breaks. Now space
even after feathers.

\version "2.19.82"

\new Staff
\relative c' {
  \override Beam.grow-direction = #LEFT
  \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 7/1)
  {c32[ d e f g f g f]}  c4 c c |
  \revert Beam.grow-direction
  c4 e d c \break c1 d e c \break c c c c c c c


}




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Re: synchronization of feathered beams

[Reggie]

Kieren MacMillan wrote
> Hi Reggie,
> 
>> WHy does measure now have no spacing out duration even though I use { }
>> around the whole feather area? See it works then it doesn't work.
> 
> No… it works and then it still works.  ;)
> 
> \new Staff
> \relative c' {
>  \override Beam.grow-direction = #LEFT
>  \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 2 1)
>  { c32[ d e f g f g f] }  c4 c c | \break
>  \revert Beam.grow-direction
>  c4 e d f c d e f d f
> }
> 
> You just don’t have enough space in that measure/system for the spacing to
> display effectively.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> Kieren.
> 
> 
> Kieren MacMillan, composer
> ‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
> ‣ email: 

> info@

> 
> 
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Arg :)) No sir. Show me how as the work continues "naturally"" it would
space out. It doesn't it's always clumpy.

\version "2.19.82"

\new Staff
\relative c' {
  \override Beam.grow-direction = #LEFT
  \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 7/1)
  {c32[ d e f g f g f]}  c4 c c |
  \revert Beam.grow-direction
  c4 e d c c1 d e c \break c c c c c c c


}




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Re: synchronization of feathered beams

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Reggie,

> WHy does measure now have no spacing out duration even though I use { }
> around the whole feather area? See it works then it doesn't work.

No… it works and then it still works.  ;)

\new Staff
\relative c' {
 \override Beam.grow-direction = #LEFT
 \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 2 1)
 { c32[ d e f g f g f] }  c4 c c | \break
 \revert Beam.grow-direction
 c4 e d f c d e f d f
}

You just don’t have enough space in that measure/system for the spacing to 
display effectively.

Hope this helps,
Kieren.


Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info


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Re: synchronization of feathered beams

[Reggie]

Thomas Morley-2 wrote
> Am Fr., 21. Dez. 2018 um 23:18 Uhr schrieb Reggie <

> reegistoop@

> >:
> 
>>
>> Is there a way in LilyPond to simply add a beam line without changing the
>> time or anything else behind the elements? I mean, visually say I had a
>> c16
>> feather beam measure that had all the math and checks OK. But I wanted 3
>> lines for my feather beams. Can you add a "extra" beam line without
>> having
>> it impact anyy other elements? In score music.
> 
> Well, yes, it's possible, you can always rewrite the stencil, but it
> would mean far more work than scaling durations.
> 
>> That would help me because I
>> am slower than you with math.
> 
> I don't see a problem here.
> 
> Say you have an 8th: { \time 1/8 c''8[] }
> This code creates a single 8th note with a one beam-segments
> 
> Now we want an equal lasting note with two beam-segmants.
> So write the half duration, i.e. c''16 and double the it's length: {
> \time 1/8 c''16*2[] }
> Or use \scaleDurations: { \time 1/8 \scaleDurations 2 c''16[] }
> 
> Same for three beam-segments: { \time 1/8 \scaleDurations 4 c''32[] }
> 
> etc
> Note, if \scaleDurations should be applied to more than one note, {
> and } are needed.
> Other examples are in the NR
> 
> Cheers,
>   Harm
> 
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> lilypond-user@

> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

 Back on topic

WHy does measure now have no spacing out duration even though I use { }
around the whole feather area? See it works then it doesn't work. Why am i
wrong? I tried 1 2, 2 1, 1/2, and 2/1.

\new Staff
\relative c' {
  \override Beam.grow-direction = #LEFT
  \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 2 1)
  { c32[ d e f g f g f]}  c4 c c |
  \revert Beam.grow-direction
  c4 e d f c d e f d f


}





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Re: synchronization of feathered beams

[Thomas Morley]

Am Fr., 21. Dez. 2018 um 23:18 Uhr schrieb Reggie :

>
> Is there a way in LilyPond to simply add a beam line without changing the
> time or anything else behind the elements? I mean, visually say I had a c16
> feather beam measure that had all the math and checks OK. But I wanted 3
> lines for my feather beams. Can you add a "extra" beam line without having
> it impact anyy other elements? In score music.

Well, yes, it's possible, you can always rewrite the stencil, but it
would mean far more work than scaling durations.

> That would help me because I
> am slower than you with math.

I don't see a problem here.

Say you have an 8th: { \time 1/8 c''8[] }
This code creates a single 8th note with a one beam-segments

Now we want an equal lasting note with two beam-segmants.
So write the half duration, i.e. c''16 and double the it's length: {
\time 1/8 c''16*2[] }
Or use \scaleDurations: { \time 1/8 \scaleDurations 2 c''16[] }

Same for three beam-segments: { \time 1/8 \scaleDurations 4 c''32[] }

etc
Note, if \scaleDurations should be applied to more than one note, {
and } are needed.
Other examples are in the NR

Cheers,
  Harm

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Re: synchronization of feathered beams

[Reggie]

Thomas Morley-2 wrote
>> Do you think it's even possible to write a function to automatically
>> space
>> according to the feather beam length and duration?
> 
> As said, likely it's possible.
> Speaking only for myself, I doubt I've the time to try.
> 
> Cheers,
>   Harm
> 
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> lilypond-user@

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Is there a way in LilyPond to simply add a beam line without changing the
time or anything else behind the elements? I mean, visually say I had a c16
feather beam measure that had all the math and checks OK. But I wanted 3
lines for my feather beams. Can you add a "extra" beam line without having
it impact anyy other elements? In score music. That would help me because I
am slower than you with math. 




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Re: synchronization of feathered beams

[Thomas Morley]

Am Fr., 21. Dez. 2018 um 19:26 Uhr schrieb Reggie :
>
> Thomas Morley-2 wrote
> > \featherDurations changes durations, nothing more!! It does not change
> > spacing on it's own.
> > The changed spacing is more a side-effect. Doing note-spacing is a
> > very involved process, durations are only one element of the
> > calculation.
> >
> > So I ensure you \featherDuarations will _always_ affect the
> > _durations_ of it's argument, though, whether the resulting spacing is
> > really what you desire? Probably/likely/sometimes not.
> >
> >> I wouldn't even know how to make this function besides. Sorry.
> >
> > Well, there are some good coders on the list ;)
> > Not sure, if I'll have the time to give it a try ...
> >
> > Cheers,
> >   Harm
> >
> > ___
> > lilypond-user mailing list
>
> > lilypond-user@
>
> > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>
> Harm this is very important you just solved the mystery :)) Sort of. It
> sounds like you just admitted that the spacing out of feather beamed
> duration notes is not always going to work correctly,

Nah, I tried to explain how featherDurations works, nothing else, (and
I may very well be corrected by others with deeper knowledge).

Durations are modified.
The spacing is tackled by the spacing engine, which needs to look at a
plethora of things, surely, among them are durations, but that's not
all...

As an example.
Say you have 4 16th.
Should they be spaced equally? I'd say, depends...

You can't do it equal here:
{
  \set fingeringOrientations = #'(left)
  \set stringNumberOrientations = #'(left)
  16  q q
}

And what's "correctly"?

Admittedly Gould is a strong argument. But in my experience every
other day a user shines up here wanting to do things _(s)he_ likes it
and not like any reference book.

> but the durations
> themselves WILL. Well, according to Gould, it's pretty obvious that feather
> beams need to be spaced out according to the tempo of the feathers, always.
> So, there's no way in LilyPond as of today function wise that simply put
> makes feather beams spaced out correctly according to standard engraving
> rules. Wow.
>
> I would hope beg love for someone to write a function that simply put spaced
> out notes according to the speed of the feathers. Finale Sibelius do this
> for years now. Hack yes but doable every time it works. What's LilyPond work
> around for this? Assume you want to engrave correctly and have your feather
> beams spaced out as they slow or speeden up, how can you do it? manually
> tweak space between notes it seems? Yikes :))
>
> Do you think it's even possible to write a function to automatically space
> according to the feather beam length and duration?

As said, likely it's possible.
Speaking only for myself, I doubt I've the time to try.

Cheers,
  Harm

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Re: synchronization of feathered beams

[Carl Sorensen]

On 12/21/18, 11:25 AM, "Reggie"  wrote:


I would hope beg love for someone to write a function that simply put spaced
out notes according to the speed of the feathers. Finale Sibelius do this
for years now. Hack yes but doable every time it works. What's LilyPond work
around for this? Assume you want to engrave correctly and have your feather
beams spaced out as they slow or speeden up, how can you do it? manually
tweak space between notes it seems? Yikes :))

You could do exactly the hack that you shared with us  from Sibelius.  Put the 
triplets in your source, but tweak the heads, stems, and beams of the first two 
notes in the triplet to be hidden (probably by setting the stencil to ##f)

Do you think it's even possible to write a function to automatically space
according to the feather beam length and duration?

If you want to give up the beautiful optical spacing that LilyPond provides, I 
believe that featherDurations will work exactly the way you want it by using 
Proportional Notation 
(http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/proportional-notation)

You might be able to keep both the standard spacing and the proportional 
spacing by using \newSpacingSection

Try some examples, and if they don’t work the way you want them to, share them 
on the list along with the problems you are having.  That's a much better way 
to get help.

Sincerely,

Carl




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Re: synchronization of feathered beams

[Reggie]

Thomas Morley-2 wrote
> \featherDurations changes durations, nothing more!! It does not change
> spacing on it's own.
> The changed spacing is more a side-effect. Doing note-spacing is a
> very involved process, durations are only one element of the
> calculation.
> 
> So I ensure you \featherDuarations will _always_ affect the
> _durations_ of it's argument, though, whether the resulting spacing is
> really what you desire? Probably/likely/sometimes not.
> 
>> I wouldn't even know how to make this function besides. Sorry.
> 
> Well, there are some good coders on the list ;)
> Not sure, if I'll have the time to give it a try ...
> 
> Cheers,
>   Harm
> 
> ___
> lilypond-user mailing list

> lilypond-user@

> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Harm this is very important you just solved the mystery :)) Sort of. It
sounds like you just admitted that the spacing out of feather beamed
duration notes is not always going to work correctly, but the durations
themselves WILL. Well, according to Gould, it's pretty obvious that feather
beams need to be spaced out according to the tempo of the feathers, always.
So, there's no way in LilyPond as of today function wise that simply put
makes feather beams spaced out correctly according to standard engraving
rules. Wow.

I would hope beg love for someone to write a function that simply put spaced
out notes according to the speed of the feathers. Finale Sibelius do this
for years now. Hack yes but doable every time it works. What's LilyPond work
around for this? Assume you want to engrave correctly and have your feather
beams spaced out as they slow or speeden up, how can you do it? manually
tweak space between notes it seems? Yikes :))

Do you think it's even possible to write a function to automatically space
according to the feather beam length and duration?




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Re: synchronization of feathered beams

[Thomas Morley]

Am Fr., 21. Dez. 2018 um 17:51 Uhr schrieb Reggie :
>
> Thomas Morley-2 wrote
> > Meanwhile I think you didn't understand that feathered beams, done with
> > \override Beam.grow-direction = #RIGHT
> > and
> > \featherDurations
> > are _independant_ from each other. See:
> >
> > \version "2.19.82"
> >
> > {
> >   r2..
> >   \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 1 2)
> >   { c''32[ 32 32 32 32 32 32 32] } r2..
> > }
> >
> > The old message you quoted previously, explains already that
> > \featherDurations changes the durations of the notes.
> > With those changed durations LilyPonds spacing engine may insert
> > different spacings between those notes.
> > Ofcourse things like barchecks fail if applied to the _unchanged_ notes.
> >
> > So it seems to me your problem has _nothing_ to do with feathered
> > Beams but with featherDurations and it's consequences.
> >
> > Probably don't use featherDurations at all, but use a custom function
> > to space the note-columns, only for the visible output, without
> > changing their durations (midi would not reflect any
> > accelerando/rallentando then ofcourse).
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> >   Harm
> >
> > ___
> > lilypond-user mailing list
>
> > lilypond-user@
>
> > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>
> Harm I don't use MIDI so a custom function could work great yes for visual
> spacing. But please bear with me on this for a second. If the durations
> command already spaces them out then why doesn't this work *every* time? I
> understand both commands are independent yes thank you. But I presumed that
> I needed durations to space out the notes correctly like Gould and
> publishing houses all over do.
>
> Why would I need a custom function to do what featherdurations does if I'm
> misunderrstanding?

\featherDurations changes durations, nothing more!! It does not change
spacing on it's own.
The changed spacing is more a side-effect. Doing note-spacing is a
very involved process, durations are only one element of the
calculation.

So I ensure you \featherDuarations will _always_ affect the
_durations_ of it's argument, though, whether the resulting spacing is
really what you desire? Probably/likely/sometimes not.

> I wouldn't even know how to make this function besides. Sorry.

Well, there are some good coders on the list ;)
Not sure, if I'll have the time to give it a try ...

Cheers,
  Harm

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Re: synchronization of feathered beams

[Reggie]

Thomas Morley-2 wrote
> Meanwhile I think you didn't understand that feathered beams, done with
> \override Beam.grow-direction = #RIGHT
> and
> \featherDurations
> are _independant_ from each other. See:
> 
> \version "2.19.82"
> 
> {
>   r2..
>   \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 1 2)
>   { c''32[ 32 32 32 32 32 32 32] } r2..
> }
> 
> The old message you quoted previously, explains already that
> \featherDurations changes the durations of the notes.
> With those changed durations LilyPonds spacing engine may insert
> different spacings between those notes.
> Ofcourse things like barchecks fail if applied to the _unchanged_ notes.
> 
> So it seems to me your problem has _nothing_ to do with feathered
> Beams but with featherDurations and it's consequences.
> 
> Probably don't use featherDurations at all, but use a custom function
> to space the note-columns, only for the visible output, without
> changing their durations (midi would not reflect any
> accelerando/rallentando then ofcourse).
> 
> 
> Cheers,
>   Harm
> 
> ___
> lilypond-user mailing list

> lilypond-user@

> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Harm I don't use MIDI so a custom function could work great yes for visual
spacing. But please bear with me on this for a second. If the durations
command already spaces them out then why doesn't this work *every* time? I
understand both commands are independent yes thank you. But I presumed that
I needed durations to space out the notes correctly like Gould and
publishing houses all over do.

Why would I need a custom function to do what featherdurations does if I'm
misunderrstanding?
I wouldn't even know how to make this function besides. Sorry.




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Re: synchronization of feathered beams

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Reggie,

 It's impossible to have feather
 beams cross barlines and look correect why is this?

I’m confused… How, exactly, does this not output the kind of thing you want?

%%%  SNIPPET BEGINS
\version "2.19.80"
{
 r2..
 \override Beam.grow-direction = #RIGHT
 \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 1 2)
 { c''32[ 32 32 32 32 32 32 32] } r2..
}
%%%  SNIPPET ENDS

Cheers,
Kieren.


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‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info


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Re: synchronization of feathered beams

[Thomas Morley]

Am Fr., 21. Dez. 2018 um 17:18 Uhr schrieb Reggie :
>
> Thomas Morley-2 wrote
> > Am Fr., 21. Dez. 2018 um 15:21 Uhr schrieb Reggie <
>
> > reegistoop@
>
> > >:
> >
> >> It's impossible to have feather
> >> beams cross barlines and look correect why is this?
> >
> > ??
> >
> > What's wrong with:
> >
> > \version "2.19.82"
> >
> > {
> >   r2..
> >   \override Beam.grow-direction = #RIGHT
> >   c'32[ \repeat unfold 6 c'' c'] r2..
> > }
> >
> > Cheers,
> >   Harm
> >
> > ___
> > lilypond-user mailing list
>
> > lilypond-user@
>
> > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>
> Also, as I earlier mentioned over and over, the bar lines fail. Your example
> does not work unless you ignore bar checks. Why needing to be this way is
> silly to me :)

Well, repeating the same over and over again, although several people
declared not to know exactly what you're, after is not likely
increasing the chance to be understood.

Meanwhile I think you didn't understand that feathered beams, done with
\override Beam.grow-direction = #RIGHT
and
\featherDurations
are _independant_ from each other. See:

\version "2.19.82"

{
  r2..
  \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 1 2)
  { c''32[ 32 32 32 32 32 32 32] } r2..
}

The old message you quoted previously, explains already that
\featherDurations changes the durations of the notes.
With those changed durations LilyPonds spacing engine may insert
different spacings between those notes.
Ofcourse things like barchecks fail if applied to the _unchanged_ notes.

So it seems to me your problem has _nothing_ to do with feathered
Beams but with featherDurations and it's consequences.

Probably don't use featherDurations at all, but use a custom function
to space the note-columns, only for the visible output, without
changing their durations (midi would not reflect any
accelerando/rallentando then ofcourse).


Cheers,
  Harm

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Re: synchronization of feathered beams

[Reggie]

Kieren MacMillan wrote
> Hi Reggie,
> 
>> the notes are not spaced out according to the feathered tempo. […]
>> They should be spaced out to show slow fast change
> 
> Why is that necessary? I mean, you obviously *want* that… but I’m not sure
> they "should" be spaced out like that, necessarily.
> 
>> How do you do that?
> 
> There are dozens of ways, each with advantages and disadvantages.
> Have you tried anything? If so, show us a minimum example, and we’ll help
> you fine-tune it.
> 
> Cheers,
> Kieren.
> 
> 
> Kieren MacMillan, composer
> ‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
> ‣ email: 

> info@

> 
> 
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Gould even says space by speed, if anyone cares :) like me
Make durations never seems to space them correctly unless I am missing it.
Bar checks never not failing if you do get the spacing eventually.
It's just confusing and I feel stupid. Sorry :(( thank you!!



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Re: synchronization of feathered beams

[Reggie]

Kieren MacMillan wrote
> Hi Reggie,
> 
>> the notes are not spaced out according to the feathered tempo. […]
>> They should be spaced out to show slow fast change
> 
> Why is that necessary? I mean, you obviously *want* that… but I’m not sure
> they "should" be spaced out like that, necessarily.
> 
>> How do you do that?
> 
> There are dozens of ways, each with advantages and disadvantages.
> Have you tried anything? If so, show us a minimum example, and we’ll help
> you fine-tune it.
> 
> Cheers,
> Kieren.
> 
> 
> Kieren MacMillan, composer
> ‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
> ‣ email: 

> info@

> 
> 
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Respect, but because it's the correct way to do it. Widely accepted.
https://www.scoringnotes.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/behind-bars-beams-2-300x81.png
You show speed by clumping notes and then more space between as needed
depends on speed. Very accepted. 

I have seen this in many Lily scores but never saw a clear answer how to
always get this behavior?
https://www.scoringnotes.com/tutorials/feathered-beams-that-look-and-play-back-correctly-in-sibelius/

Maybe someone can show clearly how Lily handles this correct behavior and
not just default spacing.




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Re: synchronization of feathered beams

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Reggie,

> the notes are not spaced out according to the feathered tempo. […]
> They should be spaced out to show slow fast change

Why is that necessary? I mean, you obviously *want* that… but I’m not sure they 
"should" be spaced out like that, necessarily.

> How do you do that?

There are dozens of ways, each with advantages and disadvantages.
Have you tried anything? If so, show us a minimum example, and we’ll help you 
fine-tune it.

Cheers,
Kieren.


Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info


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Re: synchronization of feathered beams

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Reggie,

> Thomas Morley wrote
>> What's wrong with:

> as I earlier mentioned over and over, the bar lines fail.
> Your example does not work unless you ignore bar checks.

Harm’s example works fine for me; no bar line "failure".
What’s the log output when you try it?

Cheers,
Kieren.


Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info


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Re: synchronization of feathered beams

[Reggie]

Thomas Morley-2 wrote
> Am Fr., 21. Dez. 2018 um 15:21 Uhr schrieb Reggie <

> reegistoop@

> >:
> 
>> It's impossible to have feather
>> beams cross barlines and look correect why is this?
> 
> ??
> 
> What's wrong with:
> 
> \version "2.19.82"
> 
> {
>   r2..
>   \override Beam.grow-direction = #RIGHT
>   c'32[ \repeat unfold 6 c'' c'] r2..
> }
> 
> Cheers,
>   Harm
> 
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Finally your version is also wrong because the notes are not spaced out
according to the feathered tempo. They just look like default beams
placement with 3 beams. They should be spaced out to show slow fast change
not just like you made it. How do you do that?



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Re: synchronization of feathered beams

[Reggie]

Thomas Morley-2 wrote
> Am Fr., 21. Dez. 2018 um 15:21 Uhr schrieb Reggie <

> reegistoop@

> >:
> 
>> It's impossible to have feather
>> beams cross barlines and look correect why is this?
> 
> ??
> 
> What's wrong with:
> 
> \version "2.19.82"
> 
> {
>   r2..
>   \override Beam.grow-direction = #RIGHT
>   c'32[ \repeat unfold 6 c'' c'] r2..
> }
> 
> Cheers,
>   Harm
> 
> ___
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Also, as I earlier mentioned over and over, the bar lines fail. Your example
does not work unless you ignore bar checks. Why needing to be this way is
silly to me :)




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Re: synchronization of feathered beams

[Reggie]

Thomas Morley-2 wrote
> Am Fr., 21. Dez. 2018 um 15:21 Uhr schrieb Reggie <

> reegistoop@

> >:
> 
>> It's impossible to have feather
>> beams cross barlines and look correect why is this?
> 
> ??
> 
> What's wrong with:
> 
> \version "2.19.82"
> 
> {
>   r2..
>   \override Beam.grow-direction = #RIGHT
>   c'32[ \repeat unfold 6 c'' c'] r2..
> }
> 
> Cheers,
>   Harm
> 
> ___
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Nothing. It works. It's simple. Not the question really sorry my. The
example the other person made was what I mentioned.

\version "2.12.3"
upper = {
 \override Beam #'grow-direction = #RIGHT

 \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 1 2)
 { \time 7/16 des''16 -. [\p\< es''16 -. e''16 -. f''16 -. ges''16 -. as''16
-. c'''16 -> -. \f \time 3/16 cis''' d''' dis'''] }
}
\score {
   \new Staff \upper
}




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Re: synchronization of feathered beams

[Thomas Morley]

Am Fr., 21. Dez. 2018 um 15:21 Uhr schrieb Reggie :

> It's impossible to have feather
> beams cross barlines and look correect why is this?

??

What's wrong with:

\version "2.19.82"

{
  r2..
  \override Beam.grow-direction = #RIGHT
  c'32[ \repeat unfold 6 c'' c'] r2..
}

Cheers,
  Harm

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Re: synchronization of feathered beams

[Reggie]

kontrapunktstefan wrote
> Dear Phil,
> thanks for Your explanations.
> I do have now another problem.
> What can I do, when I want to have feathered beams across barlines, like
> e.g.:
> 
> \version "2.12.3"
> upper = {
>  \override Beam #'grow-direction = #RIGHT
> 
>  \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 1 2)
>  { \time 7/16 des''16 -. [\p\< es''16 -. e''16 -. f''16 -. ges''16 -.
> as''16
> -. c'''16 -> -. \f \time 3/16 cis''' d''' dis'''] }
> }
> \score {
>\new Staff \upper
> }
> 
> 
> 
> 2010/9/30 Phil Holmes <

> mail@

> >
> 
>>  Top posting because of HTML original.
>>
>> Stefan,
>>
>> featherDurations changes the tempo of the notes.  Thus the notes at the
>> start of the bar have a longer duration than those at the end, and I
>> presume
>> LilyPond is having a problem applying this to the longer rests.  This may
>> not give the appearance you want, but shows that this will work with
>> short
>> duration rests.  (I've replaced all your eighth notes with sixteenth, to
>> show the beam feathering).
>>
>> \version "2.12.3"
>> global = { \time 7/16 }
>> upper = { \global
>>  \override Beam #'grow-direction = #RIGHT
>>
>>  \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 1 2)
>>  { des''16 -. [\p\< es''16 -. e''16 -. f''16 -. ges''16 -. as''16 -.
>> c'''16
>> -> -. \f] }
>> }
>> lower = { \global
>>\override Beam #'grow-direction = #RIGHT
>>
>>\featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 1 2)
>>  { r16 r r r r r<fis'' c'''>16 -> -. \sfz }
>>
>> }
>> \score {
>>   << \new Staff \upper
>> \new Staff \lower >>
>> }
>>
>> --
>> Phil Holmes
>>
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Stefan Thomas <

> kontrapunktstefan@

> >
>> *To:* lilypond-user <

> lilypond-user@

> >
>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 30, 2010 9:42 AM
>> *Subject:* synchronization of feathered beams
>>
>> Dear community,
>> I have a problem with the synchronisation in the below quoted snippet.
>> I expect to have the notes on the end of the bar on the same vertical
>> height.
>> How can I achieve it?
>> Thanks for help,
>> Stefan
>>
>> \version "2.12.3"
>> global = { \time 7/8 }
>> upper = { \global
>>\featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 1 2)
>>  { des''8 -. [\p\< es''8 -. e''8 -. f''8 -. ges''8 -. as''8 -. c'''8 ->
>> -.
>> \f] }
>> }
>> lower = { \global
>>\featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 1 2)
>>  { r2 r4   <fis'' c'''>8 -> -. \sfz }
>> }
>> \score {
>>   << \new Staff \upper
>> \new Staff \lower >>
>> }
>>
>>
>>  --
>>
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>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>>
>>
>>
> 
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Another feather beaming problem for me. It's impossible to have feather
beams cross barlines and look correect why is this? How can you do this? 8
years ago. What now?



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Re: widening feathered beams

[Mason Hock]

This works great. Thank you.

Mason

On 6 May 2017 at 03:42, Thomas Morley  wrote:

> 2017-05-06 4:26 GMT+02:00 Mason Hock :
> > I would like to increase the vertical space between feathered beams. This
> > achieves approximately what I want for left-feathered beaming:
> >
> >   % decelerating
> >   \override Stem.beaming = #(cons (list ) (list 0 3))
> >   \once \override Beam.grow-direction = #LEFT
> >   c16
> >   \override Stem.beaming = #(cons (list 0 3) (list 0 3))
> >   c c
> >   \override Stem.beaming = #(cons (list 0 3) (list ))
> >   c
> >   \revert Stem.beaming
> >
> > but the spacing between the beams and notehead seems strange, and for
> > right-feathered beaming the beams are too low in relation to the stems.
> >
> >   % accelerating
> >   \override Stem.beaming = #(cons (list ) (list 0 3))
> >   \once \override Beam.grow-direction = #RIGHT
> >   c16
> >   \override Stem.beaming = #(cons (list 0 3) (list 0 3))
> >   c c
> >   \override Stem.beaming = #(cons (list 0 3) (list ))
> >   c
> >   \revert Stem.beaming
> >
> > Can anyone suggest a better approach?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Mason
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I'd change Beam.length-fraction:
>
>
> Extended example from NR:
>
> \relative c' {
>
>   \override Beam.length-fraction = 2
>
>   \override Beam.grow-direction = #LEFT
>   \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 2/1)
>   { c16[ c c c c c c c] }
>   \override Beam.grow-direction = #RIGHT
>   \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 2/3)
>   { c32[ d e f] }
>   % revert to non-feathered beams
>   \override Beam.grow-direction = #'()
>   { g32[ a b c] }
> }
>
> HTH,
>   Harm
>
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Re: widening feathered beams

[Thomas Morley]

2017-05-06 4:26 GMT+02:00 Mason Hock :
> I would like to increase the vertical space between feathered beams. This
> achieves approximately what I want for left-feathered beaming:
>
>   % decelerating
>   \override Stem.beaming = #(cons (list ) (list 0 3))
>   \once \override Beam.grow-direction = #LEFT
>   c16
>   \override Stem.beaming = #(cons (list 0 3) (list 0 3))
>   c c
>   \override Stem.beaming = #(cons (list 0 3) (list ))
>   c
>   \revert Stem.beaming
>
> but the spacing between the beams and notehead seems strange, and for
> right-feathered beaming the beams are too low in relation to the stems.
>
>   % accelerating
>   \override Stem.beaming = #(cons (list ) (list 0 3))
>   \once \override Beam.grow-direction = #RIGHT
>   c16
>   \override Stem.beaming = #(cons (list 0 3) (list 0 3))
>   c c
>   \override Stem.beaming = #(cons (list 0 3) (list ))
>   c
>   \revert Stem.beaming
>
> Can anyone suggest a better approach?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mason



Hi,

I'd change Beam.length-fraction:


Extended example from NR:

\relative c' {

  \override Beam.length-fraction = 2

  \override Beam.grow-direction = #LEFT
  \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 2/1)
  { c16[ c c c c c c c] }
  \override Beam.grow-direction = #RIGHT
  \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 2/3)
  { c32[ d e f] }
  % revert to non-feathered beams
  \override Beam.grow-direction = #'()
  { g32[ a b c] }
}

HTH,
  Harm

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widening feathered beams

[Mason Hock]

I would like to increase the vertical space between feathered beams. This
achieves approximately what I want for left-feathered beaming:

  % decelerating
  \override Stem.beaming = #(cons (list ) (list 0 3))
  \once \override Beam.grow-direction = #LEFT
  c16
  \override Stem.beaming = #(cons (list 0 3) (list 0 3))
  c c
  \override Stem.beaming = #(cons (list 0 3) (list ))
  c
  \revert Stem.beaming

but the spacing between the beams and notehead seems strange, and for
right-feathered beaming the beams are too low in relation to the stems.

  % accelerating
  \override Stem.beaming = #(cons (list ) (list 0 3))
  \once \override Beam.grow-direction = #RIGHT
  c16
  \override Stem.beaming = #(cons (list 0 3) (list 0 3))
  c c
  \override Stem.beaming = #(cons (list 0 3) (list ))
  c
  \revert Stem.beaming

Can anyone suggest a better approach?

Thanks,

Mason
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Re: call for italian users: translation of "feathered beams" and other terms

[David Rogers]

Davide Liessi  writes:


>> direct
> I can't understand this glossary entry, since there isn't enough context.
> I don't think it is specifically a musical term, and I couldn't find
> occurrences of "direct" in NR with a different meaning from the usual,
> literal, common one.
> Why is "direct" in the glossary? Why is it related to "custos"?

"Direct" (noun) is sometimes used as a synonym for "custos". If the common
usage in Italian is "custos", then I think the synonym is not necessary
except in case of awareness when translating from other languages.

-- 
David R

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Re: call for italian users: translation of "feathered beams" and other terms

[Davide Liessi]

2013/4/11 Ian Hulin :
> In English we use the Italian work portamento when singers or players
> want to scoop between notes.

We use that word in Italian, too, with the same meaning.

> Aren't "doit" and "fall" forms of portamento without a define
> start/end note?

Yes, they can be seen as forms of portamento without a defined end note.

2013/4/10 Federico Bruni :
>> > doit
>> > fall
> I think that it refers to "bending".

Yes, it can refer to string bending on guitars or similar instruments,
but I think it can also refer to singers or other instruments.

> We don't have a term in italian. Maybe:
> "piegatura della nota verso l'alto/basso (bending)"

"Piegatura" is the literal translation of "bending", but I don't think
that it has a musical meaning, and I can't remember anybody calling
"piegatura" the string bending technique: I always heard the English
term.

I wrote
>> maybe you could translate them
>> like they did in German: "glissando indeterminato verso l'alto/il
>> basso" or "... verso l'acuto/il grave".
but know I would propose
"portamento indeterminato verso l'alto/il basso" or "... verso
l'acuto/il grave".
The change from "glissando" to "portamento" should make the expression
rather self-explanatory and unambiguous: in "glissando indeterminato"
it is unclear if the indetermined note is the first, the last or both,
while in "portamento indeterminato" I think it is clear that the
indetermined note is the last.

Maybe you could keep a reference to bending in brackets, but I would
let it in the explanation of the term rather than in the entry name.

Best wishes,
Davide

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Re: call for italian users: translation of "feathered beams" and other terms

[Ian Hulin]

Hi Federico and Davide,

In English we use the Italian work portamento when singers or players
want to scoop between notes.

Aren't "doit" and "fall" forms of portamento without a define
start/end note?

"Doit" (pron do-it) is a portamento up to the notated pitch, "Fall" is
a portamento down from the notated pitch (hence "falling" off the note.

HTH

Cheers,

Ian

On 10/04/13 21:47, Federico Bruni wrote:
> 
> 2013/4/10 Davide Liessi  >
> 
>> direct
> I can't understand this glossary entry, since there isn't enough 
> context. I don't think it is specifically a musical term, and I
> couldn't find occurrences of "direct" in NR with a different
> meaning from the usual, literal, common one. Why is "direct" in the
> glossary? Why is it related to "custos"?
> 
> 
> no idea, I'll leave it untranslated
> 
> 
>> doit fall
> Don't know an Italian term for these; maybe you could translate
> them like they did in German: "glissando indeterminato verso
> l'alto/il basso" or "... verso l'acuto/il grave".
> 
> 
> I think that it refers to "bending". We don't have a term in
> italian. Maybe: "piegatura della nota verso l'alto/basso
> (bending)"
> 
> 
> 
> ___ lilypond-user
> mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org 
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
> 



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Re: call for italian users: translation of "feathered beams" and other terms

[Federico Bruni]

2013/4/10 Davide Liessi 

> > direct
> I can't understand this glossary entry, since there isn't enough context.
> I don't think it is specifically a musical term, and I couldn't find
> occurrences of "direct" in NR with a different meaning from the usual,
> literal, common one.
> Why is "direct" in the glossary? Why is it related to "custos"?
>
>
no idea, I'll leave it untranslated


> > doit
> > fall
> Don't know an Italian term for these; maybe you could translate them
> like they did in German: "glissando indeterminato verso l'alto/il
> basso" or "... verso l'acuto/il grave".
>
>
I think that it refers to "bending".
We don't have a term in italian. Maybe:
"piegatura della nota verso l'alto/basso (bending)"
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Re: call for italian users: translation of "feathered beams" and other terms

[Davide Liessi]

Ciao Federico,

as in my previous email,
>> Unreferenced statements are my personal opinions.

>> Sources:
>> [G] = "Enciclopedia della Musica", Garzanti, Milano, 1996
[C] = Sandro Carnelos, "Gli organi della diocesi di Vittorio Veneto",
Vittorio Veneto, 2000 (a book that lists characteristics of each of
the church organs in the diocese of Vittorio Veneto, in North-Eastern
Italy)


> Common Practice Period
> well, this one has been translated before:
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/notation/writing-pitches#note-names-in-other-languages
>
> as "Periodo di pratica comune"
> does it refer to the western classic music?
>
> better ideas?
I think "periodo di pratica comune" is a suitable translation, but
I've never seen this expression in Italian texts.

> direct
I can't understand this glossary entry, since there isn't enough context.
I don't think it is specifically a musical term, and I couldn't find
occurrences of "direct" in NR with a different meaning from the usual,
literal, common one.
Why is "direct" in the glossary? Why is it related to "custos"?

> doit
> fall
Don't know an Italian term for these; maybe you could translate them
like they did in German: "glissando indeterminato verso l'alto/il
basso" or "... verso l'acuto/il grave".

> flageolet
I would translate it as in Spanish: "armonico".
Bowed strings players call harmonic sounds "suoni flautati" (listed
also in [G]), which is etymologically related to "flageolet", so maybe
you could list both expressions: "armonico, flautato".
Regarding the other meanings (flute, organ stop), [G] leaves the
French term "flageolet" untranslated, but says that the flageolet
flute was sometimes called "flautino" or "flauto piccolo".
It seems that both it could be translated as "flagioletto" (see
http://web.archive.org/web/20090213033806/http://www.musica-antica.info/strumenti/strumenti_paragrafi/4_4.html)
and [C] lists at least four organs with a "Flagioletto" stop (all by
the same organ constructor, Giovan Battista De Lorenzi, around 1850).

> frenched score
> frenched staff
I don't know and can't find an Italian term for these.
Maybe you could translate them like they did in German: "partitura
senza i righi vuoti" and "rigo temporaneo".

> hymn meter
Maybe "metrica dell'inno" or "struttura metrica dell'inno"?

> ligature
[G] lists the untranslated Latin term "ligatura" (plural "ligaturae").
I would leave it untranslated, as it is usual with many other Latin
terms regarding ancient music.

> mensuration sign
I don't know if there is a specific Italian term for mensuration
signs: [G] talks about tempus, prolatio and the signs used to notate
them, but does not give a specific name for these signs (e.g. "tempus
imperfectum cum prolatione imperfecta, indicato dal segno C").
I think that "indicazione mensurale" or "segno mensurale" should be
understandable, and the description in the glossary is perfectly
clear.

> neighbor tones
If these are what http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonchord_tone calls
"neighbor tone" (both accented and unaccented), then it is called
"nota di volta" ([G]).
It does not translate to "toni vicini": "tono vicino/lontano" or
"tonalità vicina/lontana" means "closely/distantly related key" or
"close/distant key" (see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closely_related_key).

Best regards.
Davide

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Re: call for italian users: translation of "feathered beams" and other terms

[Federico Bruni]

2013/4/9 Federico Bruni 

> Common Practice Period
>

well, this one has been translated before:
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/notation/writing-pitches#note-names-in-other-languages

as "Periodo di pratica comune"
does it refer to the western classic music?

better ideas?
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Re: call for italian users: translation of "feathered beams" and other terms

[Federico Bruni]

2013/4/8 Davide Liessi 

> Sources:
> [G] = "Enciclopedia della Musica", Garzanti, Milano, 1996
> [Z] = Daniele Zanettovich, "Elementi fondamentali di teoria e di
> ortografia musicale", Pizzicato edizioni musicali, Udine, 1988
>
> Unreferenced statements are my personal opinions.
>

Ciao Davide,

while adding your translations I realized that some other translations are
missing.
Can you help me again? I'm not confident with terminology...

Here's the list, you can read the definition in:
http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/music-glossary/index.html

Common Practice Period
direct
doit
fall
flageolet
frenched score
frenched staff
hymn meter
ligature
mensuration sign
neighbor tones

Thanks!
Federico
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Re: call for italian users: translation of "feathered beams" and other terms

[Federico Bruni]

2013/4/8 Davide Liessi 

> >
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/music-glossary/feathered-beam
> [Z] calls them "bandierine convergenti" (if tempo is decreasing) or
> "bandierine divergenti" (if tempo is increasing) (in [Z] beams are
> called "bandierine", "uncini" or "codette").
>
>
thanks for the hint, searching "travature divergenti" allowed me to find
what I could not find skimming through the index of the "paper book" of
Ferrero (thanks to Google books):
http://books.google.it/books?id=iY7Md4_3B-8C&pg=PA81&lpg=PA81&dq=travature+musica+convergenti&source=bl&ots=P4MVvO59U_&sig=47rtjnAeOF11l6yTKZ0jSg5lN-I&hl=en&sa=X&ei=JA1jUZzJGYz07AaykIHwAQ&ved=0CEAQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=travature%20musica%20convergenti&f=false

I'll keep using "travature" as I've done so far



> I hope this is useful.
>

Very useful, thanks!
I'll do a patch soon
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Re: call for italian users: translation of "feathered beams" and other terms

[Davide Liessi]

2013/4/7 Federico Bruni :
> A request for italian users who have a good knowledge of music notation
> terminology.

Sources:
[G] = "Enciclopedia della Musica", Garzanti, Milano, 1996
[Z] = Daniele Zanettovich, "Elementi fondamentali di teoria e di
ortografia musicale", Pizzicato edizioni musicali, Udine, 1988

Unreferenced statements are my personal opinions.


> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/music-glossary/alla-breve
Italian term; should stay unchanged according to [G].

> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/music-glossary/divisio
Latin term used also in Italian when talking about Gregorian chant;
should stay untranslated.

> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/music-glossary/double-time-signature
[Z] describes double/polymetric time signatures without giving them a
name: "Nella grafia moderna, nel caso in cui si abbia un costante
alternarsi della suddivisione binaria e della suddivisione ternaria,
per evitare una continua apparizione grafica di gruppi irregolari, si
usa impostare direttamente l'indicazione di tempo con il tempo
semplice ed il suo corrispondente composto (o viceversa)." with
examples "2/4 6/8" and "9/8 3/4"; "Talvolta, una grafia analoga si usa
per indicare l'alternarsi di due tempi diversi [...]" with examples
"3/4 2/4" and "2/4 3/8".
I think that a literal translation of the terms ("indicazione di tempo
doppia/polimetrica") should be perfectly understandable by Italian
musicians.

> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/music-glossary/feathered-beam
[Z] calls them "bandierine convergenti" (if tempo is decreasing) or
"bandierine divergenti" (if tempo is increasing) (in [Z] beams are
called "bandierine", "uncini" or "codette").

> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/music-glossary/lyric-tie
I think that "legatura del testo" should be clear enough.

> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/music-glossary/simple-meter
"tempo semplice" [G], [Z]

> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/music-glossary/compound-time
Like with Spanish, there are two different Italian translations for
the two meanings.
1. "compound meter" = "tempo composto" [G], [Z]
2. [G] and [Z] call "tempo misto" a meter composed of unequal meters
(regardless of what is the written time signature) and lack a name for
additive time signature symbols ([Z] shows additive time signatures,
without giving them a name, as a way to explicitly notate "tempi
misti").
That said, "compound time" should be translated as "tempo misto", and
I think that a literal translation of "additive time signature"
("indicazione di tempo additiva") should be OK.


I hope this is useful.
Best regards,
Davide

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call for italian users: translation of "feathered beams" and other terms

[Federico Bruni]

A request for italian users who have a good knowledge of music notation
terminology.
How would you translate "feathered beam"?
http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/notation/beams#feathered-beams

I couldn't find any information on Internet nor in an italian book "Manuale
di scrittura musicale" by Lorenzo Ferrero.

I add below other terms in Music Glossary which miss the italian
translation.
If you know the italian term please let me know and I'll take care of
making the patch.
Thanks in advance
Federico


http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/music-glossary/alla-breve
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/music-glossary/compound-time
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/music-glossary/direct
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/music-glossary/divisio
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/music-glossary/doit
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/music-glossary/double-time-signature
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/music-glossary/fall
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/music-glossary/feathered-beam
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/music-glossary/flageolet
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/music-glossary/frenched-score
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/music-glossary/frenched-staff
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/music-glossary/hymn-meter
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/music-glossary/lyric-tie
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/music-glossary/mensuration-sign
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/music-glossary/neighbor-tones
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/music-glossary/quality
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/music-glossary/simple-meter
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Re: Feathered beams: More than one beam at the end?

[James Harkins]

At Sun, 11 Mar 2012 18:03:42 +0100,
Thomas Morley wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> last year I created a work-around to make feathered beams more variable.
> Thanks again to David Nalesnik for his great help.
> -> 
> http://old.nabble.com/Making-feathered-beams-more-variable-td32705102.html#a32790344

Now that I've replaced my eyeballs back in their sockets, I can say -- thanks 
for this! Your update of my example looks clean and conveys the intent.

Thank you
James


--
James Harkins /// dewdrop world
jamshar...@dewdrop-world.net
http://www.dewdrop-world.net

"Come said the Muse,
Sing me a song no poet has yet chanted,
Sing me the universal."  -- Whitman

blog: http://www.dewdrop-world.net/words
audio clips: http://www.dewdrop-world.net/audio
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Re: Feathered beams: More than one beam at the end?

[m...@apollinemike.com]

On Mar 11, 2012, at 9:04 AM, James Harkins wrote:

> Another question -- is there any way to make the narrow end of a feathered 
> beam show more than one beam? That is, as far as I can see, the beams taper 
> down to one point (as in this code snip) but the documentation doesn't show 
> any way to specify the number of beams you want at the end.
> 
> \version "2.14.2"
> \include "english.ly"
> 
> % \override Beam #'grow-direction = #LEFT
> % % revert to non-feathered beams
> % \override Beam #'grow-direction = #'()
> 
> \relative c'' {
>  \key d \major
>  \numericTimeSignature
>  r16
>  \override Beam #'grow-direction = #LEFT
>  \scaleDurations #'(2 . 1) { e32 [ e e e e e e ] }
>  \override Beam #'grow-direction = #'()
>  e16 e e4.
> }
> 
> In this example, I'd like to indicate that the note duration at the end of 
> the feathered bit should be a 16th note (and the performed rhythm would merge 
> smoothly with the metered notes following). As shown, it kind of looks like 
> the notes should slow down to roughly an eighth note, and then the next 16th 
> notes would be played faster. Not the intent.
> 
> Writing by hand, I might start the feathered part with 32nd notes and merge 
> two of the beams down into one, leaving 16th notes at the end.
> 
> If it's impossible, I'll work around it with some explanatory text. Maybe a 
> viable feature request?
> 

'tis a viable feature request.

Han-Wen and I had kicked this idea around last year: I think all the code is 
there in beam.cc : it's just a question of someone reading it, understanding 
(or re-understanding) it, adding a few lines and creating a property.

Cheers,
MS


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Feathered beams: More than one beam at the end?

[James Harkins]

Another question -- is there any way to make the narrow end of a feathered beam 
show more than one beam? That is, as far as I can see, the beams taper down to 
one point (as in this code snip) but the documentation doesn't show any way to 
specify the number of beams you want at the end.

\version "2.14.2"
\include "english.ly"

% \override Beam #'grow-direction = #LEFT
% % revert to non-feathered beams
% \override Beam #'grow-direction = #'()

\relative c'' {
  \key d \major
  \numericTimeSignature
  r16
  \override Beam #'grow-direction = #LEFT
  \scaleDurations #'(2 . 1) { e32 [ e e e e e e ] }
  \override Beam #'grow-direction = #'()
  e16 e e4.
}

In this example, I'd like to indicate that the note duration at the end of the 
feathered bit should be a 16th note (and the performed rhythm would merge 
smoothly with the metered notes following). As shown, it kind of looks like the 
notes should slow down to roughly an eighth note, and then the next 16th notes 
would be played faster. Not the intent.

Writing by hand, I might start the feathered part with 32nd notes and merge two 
of the beams down into one, leaving 16th notes at the end.

If it's impossible, I'll work around it with some explanatory text. Maybe a 
viable feature request?

Thanks,
James


--
James Harkins /// dewdrop world
jamshar...@dewdrop-world.net
http://www.dewdrop-world.net

"Come said the Muse,
Sing me a song no poet has yet chanted,
Sing me the universal."  -- Whitman

blog: http://www.dewdrop-world.net/words
audio clips: http://www.dewdrop-world.net/audio
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Re: Feathered Beams + Make-Moment Confusion

[Thomas Morley]

2012/2/16 Joey Di Nardo :
> One more thing is that because they increase in speed, I don't want them 
> labeled as a tuplet, so I suppose I'll have to figure out how to make that 
> number invisible in that instance.

\once \override TupletNumber #'transparent = ##t

Cheers,
  Harm

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Re: Feathered Beams + Make-Moment Confusion

[Joey Di Nardo]

One more thing is that because they increase in speed, I don't want them 
labeled as a tuplet, so I suppose I'll have to figure out how to make that 
number invisible in that instance.

On Feb 15, 2012, at 7:05 PM, Thomas Morley wrote:

> Hi Joey,
> 
> 2012/2/16 Joey Di Nardo :
>> Sorry about that. Here ya go:
>> 
>> percOne = \drummode {
>> \tempo 2 = 60
>> %\tempo 2 = 45
>> \time 5/4
>> 
>> %1
>> r8\mp
>> \times 2/3 { wbh16 wbh r16 }
>> \override Beam #'grow-direction = #RIGHT
>> \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 1 4)
>> { wbh16[ wbh wbh r16 wbh] }
>> r2.
>> |
>> }
>> 
>> 
>> \score {
>>  \new DrumStaff {
>>\percOne
>>  }
>> }
>> 
>> \version "2.15.27"
>> 
> 
> \featherDurations {  } doesn't change the length of   as
> a whole. If you remove \featherDurations the barcheck should not fail.
> It does! So there is something else to change.
> 
> Well, I don't know what you intend, perhaps:
> 
> percOne = \drummode {
>\tempo 2 = 60
>%\tempo 2 = 45
>\time 5/4
> 
> %1
>   r8\mp
>   \times 2/3 { wbh16 wbh r16 }
>   \override Beam #'grow-direction = #RIGHT
>   \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 1 2)
>   { \times 4/5 { wbh16[ wbh wbh r16 wbh] } }
>   r2. |
> }
> 
> 
> \score {
>\new DrumStaff {
>   \percOne
>}
> }
> 
> \version "2.15.27"
> 
> HTH,
>  Harm
> 
> P.S. Also you might be interested in this thread:
> http://old.nabble.com/Making-feathered-beams-more-variable-tt32705102.html#a32790344
> with an extended function to print feathered beams and an improved
> feather-duration-function by David Nalesnik.


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Re: Feathered Beams + Make-Moment Confusion

[Thomas Morley]

Hi again,

[ ... ]
>
> P.S. Also you might be interested in this thread:
> http://old.nabble.com/Making-feathered-beams-more-variable-tt32705102.html#a32790344
> with an extended function to print feathered beams and an improved
> feather-duration-function by David Nalesnik.

I just noticed that I didn't post the last version of these functions
in the mentioned thread. Here it is:

Cheers,
  Harm
\version "2.14.2"

% Thanks to David Nalesnik

\pointAndClickOff

% #(set-global-staff-size 20)

\paper { 
tagline = ##f
indent = 0
}

xy = \once\override Stem #'french-beaming = ##t

xyOut =
#(define-music-function (parser location y-length)(number?)
  #{
 \once \override  Stem #'stencil =
   #(lambda (grob)
  (ly:grob-set-property! grob 'stem-end-position $y-length)
  (ly:stem::print grob))
  #})

#(define ((grow-beam-var number) grob)
 (cond
   ((< (length (cdr (ly:grob-property (ly:grob-parent grob X) 'beaming))) 2)
(ly:beam::print grob))
   ((or (= number 0) (and (< number 0) (> (abs number)(1- (ly:grob-array-length (ly:grob-object grob 'stems))
(begin
  (ly:grob-set-property! grob 'grow-direction LEFT)
  (ly:beam::print grob)))
   ((>= number (1- (ly:grob-array-length (ly:grob-object grob 'stems
(begin
 (ly:grob-set-property! grob 'grow-direction RIGHT)
 (ly:beam::print grob)))

   ((ly:stencil? (ly:beam::print grob)) ;; delete this?
(let* ((beam (ly:beam::print grob))
   (beam-positions (ly:grob-property grob 'positions))
   (beam-slant (cond ((<= (car beam-positions) (cdr beam-positions)) 1)
 ;;((= (car beam-positions) (cdr beam-positions)) 0)
 ((> (car beam-positions) (cdr beam-positions)) -1)))
   (dir (ly:beam::calc-direction grob))
   (b-d (ly:output-def-lookup (ly:grob-layout grob) 'blot-diameter))
   (beam-extent-X (ly:stencil-extent beam X))
   (beam-length-x-orig (interval-length beam-extent-X))
   (beam-length-x (- beam-length-x-orig b-d))
   (beam-extent-Y (ly:stencil-extent beam Y))
   (beam-length-y (interval-length beam-extent-Y))
   (orig-beam-thickness (ly:grob-property grob 'beam-thickness))
   (beam-count (length (cdr (ly:grob-property (ly:grob-parent grob X) 'beaming  
   (space-between-beams (* 0.46 (ly:grob-property grob 'gap))) 
   (orig-beam-length-at-stem (+ (* beam-count orig-beam-thickness)(* (- beam-count 1) space-between-beams)))
   (orig-slope (* beam-slant (/ (- beam-length-y orig-beam-length-at-stem) beam-length-x)))
   (alpha (atan orig-slope))
   (beam-thickness (* 0.8 orig-beam-thickness))
   (h-max (- (/ orig-beam-length-at-stem (cos alpha)) (* 1.3 beam-thickness)))
   (number-a (if (integer? (abs number))
   (abs number)
   (inexact->exact (truncate (abs number)
   (number-b (- (abs number) (truncate (abs number
   (stems (ly:grob-object grob 'stems))
   (stem-count (ly:grob-array-length stems))
   (refp (ly:grob-system grob))
   (first-stem (ly:grob-array-ref stems 0))
   (first-stem-dir (ly:grob-property first-stem 'direction))
   (last-stem (ly:grob-array-ref stems (- stem-count 1)))
   (last-stem-dir (ly:grob-property last-stem 'direction))
   (target-stem (if (< (abs number-a) stem-count)
   (ly:grob-array-ref stems number-a)
   (ly:grob-array-ref stems (- stem-count 1 
   (next-stem (if (< (+ (abs number-a) 1) stem-count)
   (ly:grob-array-ref stems (+ number-a 1))
   (ly:grob-array-ref stems (- stem-count 1 
   (first-stem-coord (ly:grob-relative-coordinate first-stem refp X))
   (target-stem-coord (ly:grob-relative-coordinate target-stem refp X))
   (next-stem-coord (ly:grob-relative-coordinate next-stem refp X))
   (first-stem-to-target-stem-length (interval-length (cons first-stem-coord target-stem-coord)))
   (stem-to-next-stem-length (interval-length (cons target-stem-coord next-stem-coord)))
   (factor (/ beam-length-x (+ first-stem-to-target-stem-length (* number-b stem-to-next-stem-length
   (y-sp (lambda (n) (* -1 n dir (+ beam-thickness space-between-beams
   (y-off (* 1 (/ (- beam-length-y orig-beam-length-at-stem) factor)))
   

;; markup-a is the longest beam

   (markup-a (markup #:beam beam-length-x
orig-slope
beam-thickness))

  ;; left piece
 ;; y-length of left piece 
   (y-L
 (lambda (n)
  

Re: Feathered Beams + Make-Moment Confusion

[Thomas Morley]

Hi Joey,

2012/2/16 Joey Di Nardo :
> Sorry about that. Here ya go:
>
> percOne = \drummode {
> \tempo 2 = 60
> %\tempo 2 = 45
> \time 5/4
>
> %1
> r8\mp
> \times 2/3 { wbh16 wbh r16 }
> \override Beam #'grow-direction = #RIGHT
> \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 1 4)
> { wbh16[ wbh wbh r16 wbh] }
> r2.
> |
> }
>
>
> \score {
>  \new DrumStaff {
>        \percOne
>  }
> }
>
> \version "2.15.27"
>

\featherDurations {  } doesn't change the length of   as
a whole. If you remove \featherDurations the barcheck should not fail.
It does! So there is something else to change.

Well, I don't know what you intend, perhaps:

percOne = \drummode {
\tempo 2 = 60
%\tempo 2 = 45
\time 5/4

%1
r8\mp
\times 2/3 { wbh16 wbh r16 }
\override Beam #'grow-direction = #RIGHT
\featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 1 2)
{ \times 4/5 { wbh16[ wbh wbh r16 wbh] } }
r2. |
}


\score {
\new DrumStaff {
\percOne
}
}

\version "2.15.27"

HTH,
  Harm

P.S. Also you might be interested in this thread:
http://old.nabble.com/Making-feathered-beams-more-variable-tt32705102.html#a32790344
with an extended function to print feathered beams and an improved
feather-duration-function by David Nalesnik.

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Re: Feathered Beams + Make-Moment Confusion

[Joey Di Nardo]

Sorry about that. Here ya go:

percOne = \drummode {
\tempo 2 = 60
%\tempo 2 = 45
\time 5/4

%1
r8\mp
\times 2/3 { wbh16 wbh r16 }
\override Beam #'grow-direction = #RIGHT
\featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 1 4)
{ wbh16[ wbh wbh r16 wbh] }
r2.
|
}


\score {
  \new DrumStaff {
\percOne
  }
}

\version "2.15.27"

On Feb 15, 2012, at 4:09 PM, Thomas Morley wrote:

> Hi Joey,
> 
> 2012/2/15 Joey Di Nardo :
>> Hello all, I am currently dealing with this measure:
>> 
>> |%26
>> r8\mp
>> \times 2/3 { wbh16 wbh r16 }
>> \override Beam #'grow-direction = #RIGHT
>> \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment ? ?)
>> { wbh16[ wbh wbh r16 wbh] }
>> r2.
>> |%27
>> 
>> And I'm a bit uncertain as to how to manipulate the make-moment in order to 
>> not return an error. I'd theoretically like to make the feathered beams 
>> speed up, all in the place of a quarter note.
>> 
>> I am currently getting a barcheck error no matter what values I place in 
>> make-moment.
>> 
>> thanks,
>> 
>> Joey
> 
> the barcheck error has nothing to do with \featherDurations !
> Something else is wrong! And I can't improve it because you've omitted
> nearly all needed information. Which version and timing?
> 
> And please post an example which can be compiled as it is.
> 
> Cheers,
>  Harm


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Re: Feathered Beams + Make-Moment Confusion

[Thomas Morley]

Hi Joey,

2012/2/15 Joey Di Nardo :
> Hello all, I am currently dealing with this measure:
>
> |%26
> r8\mp
> \times 2/3 { wbh16 wbh r16 }
> \override Beam #'grow-direction = #RIGHT
> \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment ? ?)
> { wbh16[ wbh wbh r16 wbh] }
> r2.
> |%27
>
> And I'm a bit uncertain as to how to manipulate the make-moment in order to 
> not return an error. I'd theoretically like to make the feathered beams speed 
> up, all in the place of a quarter note.
>
> I am currently getting a barcheck error no matter what values I place in 
> make-moment.
>
> thanks,
>
> Joey

the barcheck error has nothing to do with \featherDurations !
Something else is wrong! And I can't improve it because you've omitted
nearly all needed information. Which version and timing?

And please post an example which can be compiled as it is.

Cheers,
  Harm

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Feathered Beams + Make-Moment Confusion

[Joey Di Nardo]

Hello all, I am currently dealing with this measure:

|%26
r8\mp
\times 2/3 { wbh16 wbh r16 }
\override Beam #'grow-direction = #RIGHT
\featherDurations #(ly:make-moment ? ?)
{ wbh16[ wbh wbh r16 wbh] }
r2.
|%27

And I'm a bit uncertain as to how to manipulate the make-moment in order to not 
return an error. I'd theoretically like to make the feathered beams speed up, 
all in the place of a quarter note.

I am currently getting a barcheck error no matter what values I place in 
make-moment.

thanks,

Joey
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Re: Making feathered beams more variable

[Thomas Morley]

Hi David,

2011/11/4 Thomas Morley 

> (...)
> Also, I deleted my attempt to automatize stem-shortning (for now stems are
> to be shortened manually. This works! :)). Perhaps I start a new try with
> "2.15.13" and the 'length-property next weekend.
> (...)
>

I think the stem-shortening-problem is a little off-topic. So I started a
new thread ->
http://old.nabble.com/How-to-change-the-stem-length--td32788686.html

Best,
  Harm
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Re: Making feathered beams more variable

[Thomas Morley]

)))
   (number-a (if (integer? (abs number))
   (abs number)
   (inexact->exact (truncate (abs number)
   (number-b (- (abs number) (truncate (abs number
   (stems (ly:grob-object grob 'stems))
   (stem-count (ly:grob-array-length stems))
   (refp (ly:grob-system grob))
   (first-stem (ly:grob-array-ref stems 0))
   (first-stem-dir (ly:grob-property first-stem 'direction))
   (last-stem (ly:grob-array-ref stems (- stem-count 1)))
   (last-stem-dir (ly:grob-property last-stem 'direction))
   (target-stem (if (< (abs number-a) stem-count)
   (ly:grob-array-ref stems number-a)
   (ly:grob-array-ref stems (- stem-count 1 
   (next-stem (if (< (+ (abs number-a) 1) stem-count)
   (ly:grob-array-ref stems (+ number-a 1))
   (ly:grob-array-ref stems (- stem-count 1 
   (first-stem-coord (ly:grob-relative-coordinate first-stem refp X))
   (target-stem-coord (ly:grob-relative-coordinate target-stem refp X))
   (next-stem-coord (ly:grob-relative-coordinate next-stem refp X))
   (first-stem-to-target-stem-length (interval-length (cons first-stem-coord target-stem-coord)))
   (stem-to-next-stem-length (interval-length (cons target-stem-coord next-stem-coord)))
   (factor (/ beam-length-x (+ first-stem-to-target-stem-length (* number-b stem-to-next-stem-length
   (y-sp (lambda (n) (* -1 n dir (+ beam-thickness space-between-beams
   (y-off (* 1 (/ (- beam-length-y orig-beam-length-at-stem) factor)))
   

;; markup-a is the longest beam

   (markup-a (markup #:beam beam-length-x
orig-slope
beam-thickness))

  ;; left piece
 ;; y-length of left piece 
   (y-L
 (lambda (n)
   (if (>= number 0)
 (- (/ (- beam-length-y orig-beam-length-at-stem) factor) (* dir beam-slant n (/ h-max (- beam-count 1
 (+ (/ (- beam-length-y orig-beam-length-at-stem) factor) (* dir beam-slant n (+ beam-thickness space-between-beams)))
 )))
 ;; x-length of left piece
   (x-L (+ first-stem-to-target-stem-length (* number-b stem-to-next-stem-length)))
 ;; slope of left piece
   (slope-part-beam-L
 (lambda (n)
   (if (>= number 0)
   (cond ((or (and (> dir 0) (> beam-slant 0)) (and (< dir 0) (> beam-slant 0)))
  (/ (y-L n) x-L))
 ((or (and (> dir 0) (< beam-slant 0)) (and (< dir 0) (< beam-slant 0)))
  (* -1 (/ (y-L n) x-L
   (cond ((or (and (> dir 0) (> beam-slant 0))(and (< dir 0) (> beam-slant 0)))
  (/ (y-L n) x-L))
 ((or (and (> dir 0) (< beam-slant 0))(and (< dir 0) (< beam-slant 0))) 
  (* -1 (/ (y-L n) x-L
  )))
 ;; construct left piece
   (part-beam-L
 (lambda (n)
 (markup #:beam x-L
(slope-part-beam-L n)
beam-thickness)))
 ;; markup of left piece
   (markup-L (lambda (n) (markup (part-beam-L n
 ;; stencil of left piece
   (beam-part-L (lambda (n) (grob-interpret-markup grob (markup-L n
 ;; y-extent of left piece
   (beam-part-L-ext-y (lambda (n) (ly:stencil-extent (beam-part-L n) Y)))
 ;; length of left piece
   (length-beam-part-L-y (lambda (n) (interval-length (beam-part-L-ext-y n

  ;; right piece
   (y-R (lambda (n) (- (- beam-length-y orig-beam-length-at-stem) (y-L n
   (x-R (- beam-length-x x-L))
   (slope-part-beam-R
 (lambda (n)
   (cond
 ((or (and (> dir 0) (> beam-slant 0)) (and (< dir 0) (> beam-slant 0)))
  (/ (y-R n) x-R))
 ((or (and (> dir 0) (< beam-slant 0)) (and (< dir 0) (< beam-slant 0)))
  (* -1  (/ (y-R n) x-R))
   (part-beam-R
 (lambda (n)
   (markup #:beam (- beam-length-x x-L)
  (slope-part-beam-R n)
  beam-thickness)))
   (markup-R (lambda (n) (markup (part-beam-R n

   ;; parts of feathered beams
   (beam-pieces
 (map
   (lambda (n)
 (ly:stencil-combine-at-edge
   (ly:stencil-translate-axis
 (ly:stencil-translate-axis
   (grob-interpret-markup grob (markup-L n))
   -0.025 X)

Re: Making feathered beams more variable

[David Nalesnik]

Hi Harm,

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 2:40 PM, harm6  wrote:

>
> I tried to make an automated definition (first attachment) and to integrate
> it in the grow-beam-var-definition (second attachment). This feature will
> only work with kneed beams and if the directions of the first and last stem
> are different.
> But I noticed a strange behaviour: I retrieve wrong output if the
> global-staff-size is changed, or with other changes. Can you confirm this?

Perhaps it is similiar to my problem with your
> center-grob-between-definition.
> Or am I missing something or doing something wrong or ...?
>
>
I see no problems with the knee-beamed group on a single staff.  However,
running your files, exactly as you sent them, on 2.14.2, I see no
shortening of the final stem in the cross-staff examples.  Oddly enough,
when I change the global-staff-size, the last stem of the last cross-staff
group IS shortened at some sizes, but the other final stems are not
shortened at all, ever, whatever size I try.

I really have no idea what could be causing these differences between our
machines... A difference in OS?  Is this even a reasonable speculation?
 (I'm using Windows XP.)

Sorry I can't be of more help...

-David
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Re: Making feathered beams more variable

[harm6]

Hi David

David Nalesnik-2 wrote:
> 
> 2011/11/1 David Nalesnik 
> (...)
> If you set 'stem-end-position in the course of an override of
> 'stencil, it works in both cases:
> (...)
> 
I tried to make an automated definition (first attachment) and to integrate
it in the grow-beam-var-definition (second attachment). This feature will
only work with kneed beams and if the directions of the first and last stem
are different.
But I noticed a strange behaviour: I retrieve wrong output if the
global-staff-size is changed, or with other changes. Can you confirm this?
Perhaps it is similiar to my problem with your
center-grob-between-definition.
Or am I missing something or doing something wrong or ...?


> I've worked some more on the function which allows you to specify
> accel./rit. and vice versa, and I've attached a revision which I think is
> a lot clearer.  (Basically, it creates a series of multipliers first and
> then feeds the list into music-map.)  I've tried to make it consistent
> with the input to your function. 
> 
Looks great and works fine!


> The number input to the function is the stem number of the peak, with
> the first stem-number of the group being 0.   My understanding is that the
> peak is the shortest note in an accelerando, and the longest in a ritard.
> I've marked these points in the example.  Does this agree with your
> understanding?
> 
Completely !


> I notice that you allow for negative numbers in the input to
> grow-beam-var; the sign is simply reversed.  I wonder: shouldn't you just
> reject them from the outset, maybe with a warning?  (I mean, the concept
> of stem number -2 doesn't make a whole lot of sense :)  )
> 
That's true, but I thought about integrating some features in grow-beam-var,
only to be activated with negative numbers. P.e. the possibility of turning
the peak in special cases. (But I'm not convinced of it. I think I'll
eliminate it.)


> >Again, thanks a lot for all the work you've invested in my
> problems.
> 
> You're welcome!  I'm learning a lot by working on them!
> 

So do I.

Thanks,
  Harm

http://old.nabble.com/file/p32761182/change-stem-beam01.ly
change-stem-beam01.ly 
http://old.nabble.com/file/p32761182/kneed-beam-stem-test.ly
kneed-beam-stem-test.ly 
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://old.nabble.com/Making-feathered-beams-more-variable-tp32705102p32761182.html
Sent from the Gnu - Lilypond - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


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Re: Making feathered beams more variable

[David Nalesnik]

Hi Harm,

On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 7:08 PM, Thomas Morley <
thomasmorle...@googlemail.com> wrote:

>
>>  \once \override Stem #'stem-end-position = #-8
>>
>
> Works fine with "2.14.2" and \change Staff.
> But there is no effect in the following example.
>
> \version "2.14.2"
> { a'8 [
> \once \override Score.Stem #'stem-end-position = #-80
> a'] }
>

If you set 'stem-end-position in the course of an override of 'stencil, it
works in both cases:

\version "2.14.2"

xyOut =
#(define-music-function (parser location y-length)(number?)
  #{
 \once \override  Stem #'stencil =
   #(lambda (grob)
  (ly:grob-set-property! grob 'stem-end-position $y-length)
  (ly:stem::print grob))
  #})

{
  a'8 [
  \xyOut #-80
  a']
}

top = \change Staff = "1"
bottom = \change Staff = "2"

music = \relative c {
  \override Beam #'auto-knee-gap = #0
  \once \override  Beam #'positions = #'(4.5 . 5)
  \bottom c32[ g' \top \xyOut #-19 eis']
}

\score {
  \new PianoStaff <<
\new Staff = "1" {
  s16.
}
\new Staff = "2" {
  \clef bass
  \music
}
  >>
}

__

I've worked some more on the function which allows you to specify
accel./rit. and vice versa, and I've attached a revision which I think is a
lot clearer.  (Basically, it creates a series of multipliers first and then
feeds the list into music-map.)  I've tried to make it consistent with the
input to your function.

The number input to the function is the stem number of the peak, with the
first stem-number of the group being 0.   My understanding is that the peak
is the shortest note in an accelerando, and the longest in a ritard. I've
marked these points in the example.  Does this agree with your
understanding?

I notice that you allow for negative numbers in the input to grow-beam-var;
the sign is simply reversed.  I wonder: shouldn't you just reject them from
the outset, maybe with a warning?  (I mean, the concept of stem number -2
doesn't make a whole lot of sense :)  )


> Again, thanks a lot for all the work you've invested in my problems.
>

You're welcome!  I'm learning a lot by working on them!

-David


feather-test03.ly
Description: Binary data
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Re: Making feathered beams more variable

[Thomas Morley]

Hi David,

2011/10/30 David Nalesnik 

> Hi Harm,
>
> I added (if (ly:stencil? (ly:stem::print grob)) ... to the function (and
>> some construction-helpers, maybe deleted). Now it works with \change Staff,
>> too. "2.15.13" or higher is still needed.
>>
>
> All you need here is a call to ly:stem::print first; there's no need to
> integrate it into the logic of the function.
>
> This is enough:
>
>  #(define ((stem-length y) grob)
>(ly:stem::print grob) ; this line must be present
>(ly:grob-set-property! grob 'length y)
>(ly:stem::print grob))
>
> This doesn't work, though:
>
> #(define ((stem-length y) grob)
>(let ((stencil (ly:stem::print grob)))
>  (ly:grob-set-property! grob 'length y)
>  stencil))
>

Thanks to clearify this.


>
> Why is this?  If you or anyone reading this can explain, I'd love to hear
> the answer.
>

I've not a clue about it.


>
>
>> Any idea how to change to make it work with "2.14.2"?
>>
>
> I wasn't able to figure out how to use 'length on a single beamed stem
> with 2.14.2.  However, you can use the 'stem-end-position property here.
>  (It seems that this property is no longer available in 2.15.13.)  So, in
> 2.14.2, this line will get you what you want:
>
>  \once \override Stem #'stem-end-position = #-8
>

Works fine with "2.14.2" and \change Staff.
But there is no effect in the following example.

\version "2.14.2"
{ a'8 [
\once \override Score.Stem #'stem-end-position = #-80
a'] }

Again, thanks a lot for all the work you've invested in my problems.

Harm
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Re: Making feathered beams more variable

[David Nalesnik]

Hi Harm,

I added (if (ly:stencil? (ly:stem::print grob)) ... to the function (and
> some construction-helpers, maybe deleted). Now it works with \change Staff,
> too. "2.15.13" or higher is still needed.
>

All you need here is a call to ly:stem::print first; there's no need to
integrate it into the logic of the function.

This is enough:

#(define ((stem-length y) grob)
   (ly:stem::print grob) ; this line must be present
   (ly:grob-set-property! grob 'length y)
   (ly:stem::print grob))

This doesn't work, though:

#(define ((stem-length y) grob)
   (let ((stencil (ly:stem::print grob)))
 (ly:grob-set-property! grob 'length y)
 stencil))

Why is this?  If you or anyone reading this can explain, I'd love to hear
the answer.


> Any idea how to change to make it work with "2.14.2"?
>

I wasn't able to figure out how to use 'length on a single beamed stem with
2.14.2.  However, you can use the 'stem-end-position property here.  (It
seems that this property is no longer available in 2.15.13.)  So, in
2.14.2, this line will get you what you want:

 \once \override Stem #'stem-end-position = #-8

-David
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Re: Making feathered beams more variable

[Thomas Morley]

Hi David,

2011/10/28 Thomas Morley 

> Hi David,
>
> 2011/10/28 David Nalesnik 
>
>> Hi Harm,
>>
>> (...)
>>
>>  I tried various overrides to adjust the length of the final stem only,
>> and the solution I got to work is this:
>>
>> xy = \once\override Stem #'french-beaming = ##t
>>
>> \relative c {
>>   \once \override Beam #'stencil = #(grow-beam-var 5)
>>   f32 [ \xy f''' f,,, \xy f''' f,,, \xy f''' f,,, \xy f''' f,,, \xy
>>   \once \override  Stem #'stencil = #(lambda (grob)
>> (ly:grob-set-property! grob 'length 11)
>> (ly:stem::print grob))
>>   f''']
>> }
>>
>
> I changed your suggestion to a function (I've no problems using a function
> in this case) and tested both:
> 1. It doesn't works with "2.14.2", but with "2.15.13" there are no
> problems.
> Does it work with "2.14.2" for you?
> 2. Using it with \change Staff doesn't work! Maybe an issue with \change
> Staff?
>
> \version "2.15.13"
>
> xy = \once\override Stem #'french-beaming = ##t
>
> #(define ((stem-length y) grob)
>(ly:grob-set-property! grob 'length y)
>(ly:stem::print grob))
>
> xyOut =
> #(define-music-function (parser location y-length)(number?)
> #{
> \once \override  Stem #'stencil = #(stem-length $y-length)
> #})
>
> % This works
>
> \relative c {
>   \once \override Beam #'stencil = #(grow-beam-var 5)
>   f32 [ \xy f''' f,,, \xy f''' f,,, \xy f''' f,,, \xy f''' f,,,
>   \xyOut #11
>   f''']
> }
>
> % This not. Issue in \change Staff ?
>
> top = \change Staff = "1"
> bottom = \change Staff = "2"
>
> music = \relative c {
>   \override Beam #'auto-knee-gap = #0
>   \override Beam #'stencil = #(grow-beam-var 1)
> \bottom cis32[
> f
> %\xyOut #0
> \once \override  Stem #'stencil = #(lambda (grob)
> (ly:grob-set-property! grob 'length 0)
> (ly:stem::print grob))
> \top f'']
> }
>
> \score {
>   \new PianoStaff <<
> \new Staff = "1" {
>   s16.
> }
> \new Staff = "2" {
>   \clef bass
>   \music
> }
>   >>
> }
>
>
I added (if (ly:stencil? (ly:stem::print grob)) ... to the function (and
some construction-helpers, maybe deleted). Now it works with \change Staff,
too. "2.15.13" or higher is still needed.
Any idea how to change to make it work with "2.14.2"?

#(define ((stem-length y) grob)
  (if (ly:stencil? (ly:stem::print grob))
(begin
  (and
(ly:grob-set-property! grob 'length y)
(ly:grob-set-property! grob 'color red);; construction-helper,
comment out!
(ly:grob-set-property! grob 'layer 6);; construction-helper,
comment out!
)
 (ly:stem::print grob))
 ))

xyOut =
#(define-music-function (parser location y-length)(number?)
#{
\once \override  Stem #'stencil = #(stem-length $y-length)
#})

%- Test

top = \change Staff = "1"
bottom = \change Staff = "2"

music = \relative c {
  \override Beam #'auto-knee-gap = #0
  %\override Beam #'stencil = #(grow-beam-var -1)
  \once \override  Beam #'positions = #'(4.5 . 5)
\bottom c32[ g' \top  \xyOut #4 eis']
}

\score {
  \new PianoStaff <<
\new Staff = "1" {
  s16.
}
\new Staff = "2" {
  \clef bass
  \music
}
  >>
}

Best,
  Harm
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Re: Making feathered beams more variable

[David Nalesnik]

Hi Harm,

On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 9:47 AM, Thomas Morley <
thomasmorle...@googlemail.com> wrote:

>
> To make it possible to enter the same arguments to both,
> featherDurationTest and grow-dir-var, I added some conditions to the
> turnaround-argument and the end-multiplier.
>

Good idea -- thank you for doing this!


>
>
>> If you notice any problems or think of a way to make this more
>> effective/less tangled please let me know!
>>
>
> I would have expected that the pattern is displayed every time I use
> \featherDurationTest but it only occurs once. Why?
>

When I do the following, I get the same result with each group:

\relative c'' {
  \repeat unfold 5 {
\featherDurationsTest #(ly:make-moment 1 2) #8
{ c32[ c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c] } c2
\break
  }
}

>
> And there is a strange thing I had to notice: If \featherDurationTest is
> used a second (or third) time, the second (or third) setting changes and
> disturbs the first. Or, if I use a high turnaround-value with the first,
> the next settings are changed. I can't explain or fix this behaviour.
>

I'm speculating, but I think this odd behavior has something to do with the
way the durations are modified by both functions, and the demands this must
put on the spacing engine.

The attached file shows what happens to moments when you run
\featherDurations on successively longer groups.  The numbers very quickly
get to be unmanageable since the process is geometric.  And somehow the
total of these adjusted values (also shown in the log) needs to be scaled
to fit the original length.  ( \featherDurationsTest does the same thing,
simply reversing the process at the turnaround point.)

I wonder if it's possible to create a feature in Lilypond which allows the
user to place notes at exact horizontal positions--I think this would be
useful with feathered values.  (Years ago, I created a proportional
notation piece with Score this way--too long ago to remember if there were
any drawbacks to this method other than the manual calculation involved!)


> P.S.: In harm-feathered-beams-align-to-stems-rev_04.ly I forgot to apply
> dir-peak to mark-a. I integrated the correction into the attached file.
>
>
I'll be able to look at this some more in the upcoming days, and I'll let
you know if I think of anything!

Best,
David


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Re: Making feathered beams more variable

[Thomas Morley]

Hi David,

2011/10/29 David Nalesnik 

> Hi again,
>
> (...)
> The attached should work with accel./rit. and rit./accel.
>

Wow!! Looks great!!


> There is only one extra argument now, which represents the position of the
> "turnaround".  This can't be larger than the number of notes in the group.
>
>

To make it possible to enter the same arguments to both,
featherDurationTest and grow-dir-var, I added some conditions to the
turnaround-argument and the end-multiplier.


> If you notice any problems or think of a way to make this more
> effective/less tangled please let me know!
>

I would have expected that the pattern is displayed every time I use
\featherDurationTest but it only occurs once. Why?

And there is a strange thing I had to notice: If \featherDurationTest is
used a second (or third) time, the second (or third) setting changes and
disturbs the first. Or, if I use a high turnaround-value with the first,
the next settings are changed. I can't explain or fix this behaviour.


Many thanks,
  Harm

P.S.: In harm-feathered-beams-align-to-stems-rev_04.ly I forgot to apply
dir-peak to mark-a. I integrated the correction into the attached file.
\version "2.14.2"

\pointAndClickOff

#(set-global-staff-size 18)

\paper { tagline = ##f }

\markup \column { \bold \fill-line { "EXAMPLES" } \vspace #2 }

xy = \once\override Stem #'french-beaming = ##t

% xyOut needs "2.15.13"

#(define ((stem-length y) grob)
   (ly:grob-set-property! grob 'length y)
   (ly:stem::print grob))

xyOut =
#(define-music-function (parser location y-length)(number?)
#{
\once \override  Stem #'stencil = #(stem-length $y-length)
#})

#(define ((grow-beam-var number) grob)
 ;; Thanks to David Nalesnik
 (cond
   ((< (length (cdr (ly:grob-property (ly:grob-parent grob X) 'beaming))) 2)
(ly:beam::print grob))
   ((= number 0)
(begin
  (ly:grob-set-property! grob 'grow-direction LEFT)
  (ly:beam::print grob)))
   ((>= number (1- (ly:grob-array-length (ly:grob-object grob 'stems
(begin
 (ly:grob-set-property! grob 'grow-direction RIGHT)
 (ly:beam::print grob)))

   ((ly:stencil? (ly:beam::print grob)) ;; delete this?
(let* ((beam (ly:beam::print grob))
   (dir (ly:beam::calc-direction grob))
   (b-d (ly:output-def-lookup (ly:grob-layout grob) 'blot-diameter))
   (beam-extent-X (ly:stencil-extent beam X))
   (beam-length-x-orig (interval-length beam-extent-X))
   (beam-length-x (- beam-length-x-orig b-d))
   (beam-extent-Y (ly:stencil-extent beam Y))
   (beam-length-y (interval-length beam-extent-Y))
   (orig-beam-thickness (ly:grob-property grob 'beam-thickness))
   (beam-count (length (cdr (ly:grob-property (ly:grob-parent grob X) 'beaming  
   (space-between-beams (* 0.46 (ly:grob-property grob 'gap)))  
   (orig-beam-length-at-stem (+ (* beam-count orig-beam-thickness)(* (- beam-count 1) space-between-beams)))
   (beam-positions (ly:grob-property grob 'positions))
   (beam-slant (cond ((<= (car beam-positions) (cdr beam-positions)) 1)
 ;;((= (car beam-positions) (cdr beam-positions)) 0)
 ((> (car beam-positions) (cdr beam-positions)) -1)))
   (orig-slope (* beam-slant (/ (- beam-length-y orig-beam-length-at-stem) beam-length-x)))
   (alpha (atan orig-slope))
   (beam-thickness (* 0.8 orig-beam-thickness))
   (h-max (- (/ orig-beam-length-at-stem (cos alpha)) (* 1.3 beam-thickness)))
   (dir-peak (if (and (ly:grob-property grob 'knee) (< number 0) (= (car beam-positions) (cdr beam-positions)))
	   -1
	   1))
   (number-a (if (integer? (abs number))
   (abs number)
   (inexact->exact (floor (abs number)
   (number-b (- (abs number) (floor (abs number
   (stems (ly:grob-object grob 'stems))
   (stem-count (ly:grob-array-length stems))
   (refp (ly:grob-system grob))
   (first-stem (ly:grob-array-ref stems 0))
   (target-stem (if (< (abs number-a) stem-count)
   (ly:grob-array-ref stems number-a)
   (ly:grob-array-ref stems (- stem-count 1 
   (next-stem (if (< (+ (abs number-a) 1) stem-count)
   (ly:grob-array-ref stems (+ number-a 1))
   (ly:grob-array-ref stems (- stem-count 1 
   (first-stem-coord (ly:grob-relative-coordinate first-stem refp X))
   (target-stem-coord (ly:grob-relative-coordinate target-stem refp X))
   (next-stem-coord (ly:grob-relative-coordinate next-stem refp X))
   (first-stem-to-target-stem-length (interval-length (cons first-stem-coord target-stem-coord)))

Re: Making feathered beams more variable

[David Nalesnik]

Hi again,

On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 4:31 PM, David Nalesnik wrote:

>
> I worked on this a bit, and I came up with something which will handle the
> accel./rit. pattern which you've been using with your feathered beam
> function.  It works just like \featherDurations, except you add two
> additional arguments, a number representing the number of notes it takes to
> get to the fastest value and another number representing the number of notes
> left over.  Sort of :)  It's a bit unclear what the numbers mean, so I left
> a line in the function which displays the pattern to the log so you can see
> what's going on.  (What do you think each number should represent?  Also, is
> there an easy way to determine the number of notes in the pattern
> automatically?)
>
> I'm sure there's a lot of room for improvement here.  (For one thing, how
> about starting fast, getting slower, then faster again?)  But this seems to
> work . . . so far :)
>
>
The attached should work with accel./rit. and rit./accel.  There is only one
extra argument now, which represents the position of the "turnaround".  This
can't be larger than the number of notes in the group.   If you notice any
problems or think of a way to make this more effective/less tangled please
let me know!

-David


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Re: Making feathered beams more variable

[David Nalesnik]

Hi Harm,

On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 8:18 AM, Thomas Morley <
thomasmorle...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> 2011/10/28 David Nalesnik 
>
>> [ . . . ]
>
>
>> Maybe you could think of some artful way to modify the function in
>> music-functions-init.ly to incorporate the increase/decrease.  That way
>> you could handle the peak smoothly.
>>
>
I worked on this a bit, and I came up with something which will handle the
accel./rit. pattern which you've been using with your feathered beam
function.  It works just like \featherDurations, except you add two
additional arguments, a number representing the number of notes it takes to
get to the fastest value and another number representing the number of notes
left over.  Sort of :)  It's a bit unclear what the numbers mean, so I left
a line in the function which displays the pattern to the log so you can see
what's going on.  (What do you think each number should represent?  Also, is
there an easy way to determine the number of notes in the pattern
automatically?)

I'm sure there's a lot of room for improvement here.  (For one thing, how
about starting fast, getting slower, then faster again?)  But this seems to
work . . . so far :)

-David


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Re: Making feathered beams more variable

[Thomas Morley]

   (ly:grob-array-ref stems number-a)
   (ly:grob-array-ref stems (- stem-count 1 
   (next-stem (if (< (+ (abs number-a) 1) stem-count)
   (ly:grob-array-ref stems (+ number-a 1))
   (ly:grob-array-ref stems (- stem-count 1 
   (first-stem-coord (ly:grob-relative-coordinate first-stem refp X))
   (target-stem-coord (ly:grob-relative-coordinate target-stem refp X))
   (next-stem-coord (ly:grob-relative-coordinate next-stem refp X))
   (first-stem-to-target-stem-length (interval-length (cons first-stem-coord target-stem-coord)))
   (stem-to-next-stem-length (interval-length (cons target-stem-coord next-stem-coord)))
   (factor (if (eq? first-stem target-stem);(= first-stem-to-target-stem-length 0)
 beam-length-x
 (/ beam-length-x first-stem-to-target-stem-length)))

;; markup-a is the longest beam

   (markup-a (markup #:beam beam-length-x
orig-slope
beam-thickness))

  ;; left piece
 ;; y-length of left piece
   (y-L
 (lambda (n)
   (- (/ (- beam-length-y orig-beam-length-at-stem) factor) (* dir beam-slant (* n (/ h-max (- beam-count 1)
   ))
 ;; x-length of left piece
   (x-L (if (= number 0);(= first-stem-to-target-stem-length 0)
 0.001
(+ first-stem-to-target-stem-length (* number-b stem-to-next-stem-length
 ;; slope of left piece
   (slope-part-beam-L
 (lambda (n)
   (cond ((or (and (> dir 0) (> beam-slant 0)) (and (< dir 0) (> beam-slant 0)))
  (* dir-peak (/ (y-L n) x-L)))
 ((or (and (> dir 0) (< beam-slant 0)) (and (< dir 0) (< beam-slant 0)))
  (* -1 (/ (y-L n) x-L))
 ;; construct left piece
   (part-beam-L
 (lambda (n)
     (markup #:beam x-L
(slope-part-beam-L n)
beam-thickness)))
 ;; markup of left piece
   (markup-L (lambda (n) (markup (part-beam-L n
 ;; stencil of left piece
   (beam-part-L (lambda (n) (grob-interpret-markup grob (markup-L n
 ;; y-extent of left piece
   (beam-part-L-ext-y (lambda (n) (ly:stencil-extent (beam-part-L n) Y)))
 ;; length of left piece
   (length-beam-part-L-y (lambda (n) (interval-length (beam-part-L-ext-y n

  ;; right piece
   (y-R (lambda (n) (- (- beam-length-y orig-beam-length-at-stem) (y-L n
   (x-R (- beam-length-x x-L))
   (slope-part-beam-R
 (lambda (n)
   (cond
   ((or (and (> dir 0) (> beam-slant 0)) (and (< dir 0) (> beam-slant 0)))
  (* dir-peak (/ (y-R n) x-R)))
 ((or (and (> dir 0) (< beam-slant 0)) (and (< dir 0) (< beam-slant 0)))
  (* -1  (/ (y-R n) x-R))
   (part-beam-R
 (lambda (n)
   (markup #:beam (- beam-length-x x-L)
  (slope-part-beam-R n)
  beam-thickness)))
   (markup-R (lambda (n) (markup (part-beam-R n

   ;; parts of feathered beams
   (beam-pieces
 (map
   (lambda (n)
 (ly:stencil-combine-at-edge
   (ly:stencil-translate-axis
 (grob-interpret-markup grob (markup-L n))
 -0.025 X)
   X RIGHT
   (ly:stencil-translate-axis
 (grob-interpret-markup grob (markup-R n))
 (cond ((and (> dir 0)(> beam-slant 0))
(if (and (>= (slope-part-beam-L n) 0)(>= (slope-part-beam-R n) 0))
(- (length-beam-part-L-y n) beam-thickness)
(* -1 (- (length-beam-part-L-y n) beam-thickness
   ((and (> dir 0)(< beam-slant 0))
(* -1 (- (length-beam-part-L-y n) beam-thickness)))

   ((and (< dir 0)(> beam-slant 0))
(* dir-peak (- (length-beam-part-L-y n) beam-thickness)))
   ((and (< dir 0)(< beam-slant 0))
(if (and (<= (slope-part-beam-L n) 0)(<= (slope-part-beam-R n) 0))
(* -1 (- (length-beam-part-L-y n) beam-thickness))
(- (length-beam-part-L-y n) beam-thickness)))
  )
 Y)
   0))
   (cdr (iota beam-count

   )   ;; end of defs in let*

  (define (helper beam-pieces)
(ly:stencil-ad

Re: Making feathered beams more variable

[David Nalesnik]

Hi Harm,

On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 12:05 PM, harm6 wrote:

>
> Hi David,
>
> David Nalesnik-2 wrote:
> >
> > Hi Harm,
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 4:09 PM, Thomas Morley <
> > thomasmorle...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> I'm looking for a method to integrate something like:
>
> (if (= number 0)
> use: \override Beam #'grow-direction = #LEFT
> (if (>= number stem-count)
> use: \override Beam #'grow-direction = #RIGHT
> otherwise use: \override Beam #'stencil = (grow-beam-var arg)
>
> into the Beam-stencil-override.
>
> I'm aware of the possibility to create a function to do that, but this is
> not intended.
>
> So, is it possible to program (grob-property-set! grob 'grow-direction
> LEFT)
> somewhere in a stencil-override?
>
>
I'm not sure I understand what you want here.  Would you like to duplicate
the effect of these overrides in the function (say by adding in null
stencils), or actually call them when certain conditions are met?  The
attached file does the latter.


>
> Thanks a lot for improving my function several times and answering all my
> questions about beams!
>
>
Glad I could help!


> There are two problems left.
> First tiny problem:
> The output with kneed-beams is ugly in some cases:
> This example gives a overlooking stem at beam-end (test-code only)
>
> xy = \once\override Stem #'french-beaming = ##t
>
> \relative c {
>\once\override Beam #'stencil = #(grow-beam-var 5)
>f32 [ \xy f''' f,,, \xy f''' f,,, \xy f''' f,,, \xy f''' f,,, \xy
> f''']
> }
>
> I'm not sure how to fix. 'french-beaming only works with the inner stems.
> Is there a default-command I can't find? Should I integrate something into
> the definition of grow-beam-var? Or create a separate override for this
> stem?
>
>
I don't know if there's a setting to allow 'french-beaming to work with
outer stems of a beam group. (I checked some Durand scores of Messiaen, and
sure enough, the outer stems span the entire beam.)  I tried various
overrides to adjust the length of the final stem only, and the solution I
got to work is this:

xy = \once\override Stem #'french-beaming = ##t

\relative c {
  \once \override Beam #'stencil = #(grow-beam-var 5)
  f32 [ \xy f''' f,,, \xy f''' f,,, \xy f''' f,,, \xy f''' f,,, \xy
  \once \override  Stem #'stencil = #(lambda (grob) (ly:grob-set-property!
grob 'length 11)
(ly:stem::print grob))
  f''']
}


> Regarding the following example I'm not sure: should the peak point up or
> down? What do you think?
>
> \relative c' {
>\override Beam #'auto-knee-gap = #4
>\override Beam #'stencil = #(grow-beam-var 16)
>c''32 [b a g
>f g a b
>c b a g
>f g a b
>e,,, c''' b a
>g a b c
>d c b a
>g a b c]
>c1
> }
>

Well, with the current position of the beam, what you have is the only
option.  Otherwise the beam will cover the ledger lines.


> Second problem.
> I tried to use \featherDuration with my Definition, but it doesn't work as
> expected (seems it works only once a beam):
>
> \relative c'' {
> \override Beam #'stencil = #(grow-beam-var 7)
>
> a64 [
> \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 1 2)
> {a a a
> a a a a}
>
> a
> \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 2 1)
> {a a a
> a a a a
>
> a a a a
> a a a a
>
> a a a a
>     a a a} a]
> a2
> }
>
> Any idea?
>

There's a "known warning" about \featherDurations which applies here, I
think.  You have too many notes in the group. Your beams work with this
short example:

\relative c'' {
  \override Beam #'stencil = #(grow-beam-var 4)
  \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 1 2)
  {c32[ c c c} \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 2 1) {c c c c]} c2.
}

Maybe you could think of some artful way to modify the function in
music-functions-init.ly to incorporate the increase/decrease.  That way you
could handle the peak smoothly.

I hope this helps!

>
-David


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Re: Making feathered beams more variable

[harm6]

Hi David,

David Nalesnik-2 wrote:
> 
> Hi Harm,
> 
> On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 4:09 PM, Thomas Morley <
> thomasmorle...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> (...)
>> Values like "0" or values greater than the stem-count are faking
>> \override
>> Beam #'grow-direction = #LEFT (RIGHT). (This is not very elegant: switch
>> on
>> the color in \layout).
>>
> 
> I'm not sure what I'm supposed to see here -- looks fine to me.  (There
> must
> be a way to get around needing to give a non-existent "feather" a length
> of
> 0.001 to avoid division by zero, though, but my head gets a bit tangled up
> thinking about it!)
> 
I'm looking for a method to integrate something like:

(if (= number 0)
 use: \override Beam #'grow-direction = #LEFT
(if (>= number stem-count)
 use: \override Beam #'grow-direction = #RIGHT
 otherwise use: \override Beam #'stencil = (grow-beam-var arg)

into the Beam-stencil-override.

I'm aware of the possibility to create a function to do that, but this is
not intended.

So, is it possible to program (grob-property-set! grob 'grow-direction LEFT)
somewhere in a stencil-override?


>>One little problem: With values between 0 and 1 (p.e. 0.5 or 0.8) I
retrieve
>> every time the same output. Well, no one would ever enter such strange
>> values and perhaps I'm a little bit paranoic, but could it be, that
>> there's
>> a problem I can't see?
>>
> 
> I think I solved this problem by changing the definition of the variable
> x-L.  So now you can create all sorts of questionable subtleties (see
> image)
> :)
> 
Thanks a lot for improving my function several times and answering all my
questions about beams!


There are two problems left.
First tiny problem:
The output with kneed-beams is ugly in some cases:
This example gives a overlooking stem at beam-end (test-code only)

xy = \once\override Stem #'french-beaming = ##t

\relative c {
\once\override Beam #'stencil = #(grow-beam-var 5)
f32 [ \xy f''' f,,, \xy f''' f,,, \xy f''' f,,, \xy f''' f,,, \xy
f''']
}

I'm not sure how to fix. 'french-beaming only works with the inner stems. 
Is there a default-command I can't find? Should I integrate something into
the definition of grow-beam-var? Or create a separate override for this
stem?


Regarding the following example I'm not sure: should the peak point up or
down? What do you think?

\relative c' {
\override Beam #'auto-knee-gap = #4
\override Beam #'stencil = #(grow-beam-var 16)
c''32 [b a g
f g a b
c b a g
f g a b
e,,, c''' b a
g a b c
d c b a
g a b c]
c1
}

Second problem.
I tried to use \featherDuration with my Definition, but it doesn't work as
expected (seems it works only once a beam):

\relative c'' {
 \override Beam #'stencil = #(grow-beam-var 7)

     a64 [
 \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 1 2)
 {a a a
 a a a a}

 a 
 \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 2 1) 
 {a a a
 a a a a

 a a a a
 a a a a

 a a a a
 a a a} a]
 a2
}

Any idea?

Many thanks,
  Harm

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Re: Making feathered beams more variable

[Thomas Morley]

Hi David,

2011/10/24 David Nalesnik 

> Hi Harm,
> (...)
> I haven't tried to break your function :) but the attached file shows one
> way you could generalize it to remove the code duplication and work with
> more than four beams.  (In the example, I've changed the first group to use
> 128th notes.)
>

Many thanks, I knew it could be done.


>
> The examples that Gould shows (pg. 158) have the peak of the feathered
> beams aligned with a stem.  I think this would be a useful variation of the
> function.  It shouldn't be hard to automate:  (ly:grob-object grob 'stems)
> will get you an array of the stem grobs associated with the beam, and you
> could select a particular stem from the array with ly:grob-array-ref.
>

I did as you suggested (perhaps it could be shorter and more elegant, but it
works :)). The argument of the function now aligns the peak with a stem. But
you can also enter non-integer values:  (grow-beam-var 3.5) centers the peak
between the third and the fourth stem.
Values like "0" or values greater than the stem-count are faking \override
Beam #'grow-direction = #LEFT (RIGHT). (This is not very elegant: switch on
the color in \layout).
One little problem: With values between 0 and 1 (p.e. 0.5 or 0.8) I retrieve
every time the same output. Well, no one would ever enter such strange
values and perhaps I'm a little bit paranoic, but could it be, that there's
a problem I can't see?

Thanks,
  Harm
\version "2.14.2"

\pointAndClickOff

#(set-global-staff-size 18)

\layout {
\context {
\Staff
\override Beam #'layer = #4
%\override Beam #'color = #red
}
}

\markup \column { \bold \fill-line { "EXAMPLES" } \vspace #2 }

xy = \once\override Stem #'french-beaming = ##t

#(define ((grow-beam-var number) grob)
 (if (< (length (cdr (ly:grob-property (ly:grob-parent grob X) 'beaming))) 2)
 (ly:beam::print grob)
  (if (ly:stencil? (ly:beam::print grob)) ;; delete this?
   ;; Thanks to David Nalesnik
 (let* ((beam (ly:beam::print grob))
(dir (ly:beam::calc-direction grob))
(b-d (ly:output-def-lookup (ly:grob-layout grob) 'blot-diameter))
(beam-extent-X (ly:stencil-extent beam X))
(beam-length-x-orig (interval-length beam-extent-X))
(beam-length-x (- beam-length-x-orig b-d))
(beam-extent-Y (ly:stencil-extent beam Y))
(beam-length-y (interval-length beam-extent-Y))
(orig-beam-thickness (ly:grob-property grob 'beam-thickness))
(beam-count (length (cdr (ly:grob-property (ly:grob-parent grob X) 'beaming  ;; the number of beams
(space-between-beams (* 0.46 (ly:grob-property grob 'gap)))  ;; the space between the beams
(orig-beam-length-at-stem (+ (* beam-count orig-beam-thickness)(* (- beam-count 1) space-between-beams)))
(beam-positions (ly:grob-property grob 'positions))

(beam-slant (cond ((<= (car beam-positions) (cdr beam-positions)) 1)
  ;;((= (car beam-positions) (cdr beam-positions)) 0)
  ((> (car beam-positions) (cdr beam-positions)) -1)))
(orig-slope (* beam-slant (/ (- beam-length-y orig-beam-length-at-stem) beam-length-x)))
(alpha (atan orig-slope))
(beam-thickness (* 0.8 orig-beam-thickness))
(h-max (- (/ orig-beam-length-at-stem (cos alpha)) (* 1.3 beam-thickness)))
;
(number-a (if (integer? (abs number))
	(abs number)
	(inexact->exact (floor (abs number)
(number-b (- (abs number) (floor (abs number
(stems (ly:grob-object grob 'stems))
(stem-count (ly:grob-array-length stems))
(refp (ly:grob-system grob))
(first-stem (ly:grob-array-ref stems 0))
(target-stem (if (< (abs number-a) stem-count)
	(ly:grob-array-ref stems number-a)
	(ly:grob-array-ref stems (- stem-count 1 
(next-stem (if (< (+ (abs number-a) 1) stem-count)
	(ly:grob-array-ref stems (+ number-a 1))
	(ly:grob-array-ref stems (- stem-count 1 
(first-stem-coord (ly:grob-relative-coordinate first-stem refp X))
(target-stem-coord (ly:grob-relative-coordinate target-stem refp X))
(next-stem-coord (ly:grob-relative-coordinate next-stem refp X))
(first-stem-to-target-stem-length (interval-length (cons first-stem-coord target-stem-coord)))
(stem-to-next-stem-length (interval-length (cons target-stem-coord ne

Re: Making feathered beams more variable

[David Nalesnik]

Hi Harm,

On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 8:21 AM, harm6 wrote:

the attached file is a first attempt to make feathered beams more variable.
> p.e.:
> http://old.nabble.com/file/p32705102/beam15.png


This is really cool!  What a great function!!

Some problems persist:
> The function is limited up to 64th notes. (I'm sure it could be defined
> recursive to generalize it, but I didn't manage.)
>

I haven't tried to break your function :) but the attached file shows one
way you could generalize it to remove the code duplication and work with
more than four beams.  (In the example, I've changed the first group to use
128th notes.)

The examples that Gould shows (pg. 158) have the peak of the feathered beams
aligned with a stem.  I think this would be a useful variation of the
function.  It shouldn't be hard to automate:  (ly:grob-object grob 'stems)
will get you an array of the stem grobs associated with the beam, and you
could select a particular stem from the array with ly:grob-array-ref.

--David


harm-feathered-beam01.ly
Description: Binary data
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Making feathered beams more variable

[harm6]

Hi,

the attached file is a first attempt to make feathered beams more variable. 
p.e.:
http://old.nabble.com/file/p32705102/beam15.png 
Thanks to David Nalesnik, who answered several questions about the details
of beams.

Some problems persist: 
The function is limited up to 64th notes. (I'm sure it could be defined
recursive to generalize it, but I didn't manage.)
When using kneed-beams the output isn't sufficient in all cases. 

Please let me know what you think about it.
If someone finds an example which breaks the function, please post it.
It is tested with "2.14.2" and "2.15.13". With few changes it will work with
"2.12.3" too.

Best,
  Harm

http://old.nabble.com/file/p32705102/beam15.ly beam15.ly 
http://old.nabble.com/file/p32705102/beam15.pdf beam15.pdf 
-- 
View this message in context: 
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Sent from the Gnu - Lilypond - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


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Re: synchronization of feathered beams

[Stefan Thomas]

Dear Phil,
thanks for Your explanations.
I do have now another problem.
What can I do, when I want to have feathered beams across barlines, like
e.g.:

\version "2.12.3"
upper = {
 \override Beam #'grow-direction = #RIGHT

 \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 1 2)
 { \time 7/16 des''16 -. [\p\< es''16 -. e''16 -. f''16 -. ges''16 -. as''16
-. c'''16 -> -. \f \time 3/16 cis''' d''' dis'''] }
}
\score {
   \new Staff \upper
}



2010/9/30 Phil Holmes 

>  Top posting because of HTML original.
>
> Stefan,
>
> featherDurations changes the tempo of the notes.  Thus the notes at the
> start of the bar have a longer duration than those at the end, and I presume
> LilyPond is having a problem applying this to the longer rests.  This may
> not give the appearance you want, but shows that this will work with short
> duration rests.  (I've replaced all your eighth notes with sixteenth, to
> show the beam feathering).
>
> \version "2.12.3"
> global = { \time 7/16 }
> upper = { \global
>  \override Beam #'grow-direction = #RIGHT
>
>  \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 1 2)
>  { des''16 -. [\p\< es''16 -. e''16 -. f''16 -. ges''16 -. as''16 -. c'''16
> -> -. \f] }
> }
> lower = { \global
>\override Beam #'grow-direction = #RIGHT
>
>\featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 1 2)
>  { r16 r r r r r16 -> -. \sfz }
>
> }
> \score {
>   << \new Staff \upper
> \new Staff \lower >>
> }
>
> --
> Phil Holmes
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Stefan Thomas 
> *To:* lilypond-user 
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 30, 2010 9:42 AM
> *Subject:* synchronization of feathered beams
>
> Dear community,
> I have a problem with the synchronisation in the below quoted snippet.
> I expect to have the notes on the end of the bar on the same vertical
> height.
> How can I achieve it?
> Thanks for help,
> Stefan
>
> \version "2.12.3"
> global = { \time 7/8 }
> upper = { \global
>\featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 1 2)
>  { des''8 -. [\p\< es''8 -. e''8 -. f''8 -. ges''8 -. as''8 -. c'''8 -> -.
> \f] }
> }
> lower = { \global
>\featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 1 2)
>  { r2 r4   8 -> -. \sfz }
> }
> \score {
>   << \new Staff \upper
> \new Staff \lower >>
> }
>
>
>  --
>
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>
>
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Re: synchronization of feathered beams

[Phil Holmes]

Top posting because of HTML original.

Stefan,

featherDurations changes the tempo of the notes.  Thus the notes at the start 
of the bar have a longer duration than those at the end, and I presume LilyPond 
is having a problem applying this to the longer rests.  This may not give the 
appearance you want, but shows that this will work with short duration rests.  
(I've replaced all your eighth notes with sixteenth, to show the beam 
feathering).

\version "2.12.3"
global = { \time 7/16 }
upper = { \global 
 \override Beam #'grow-direction = #RIGHT
 \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 1 2)
 { des''16 -. [\p\< es''16 -. e''16 -. f''16 -. ges''16 -. as''16 -. c'''16 -> 
-. \f] } 
}
lower = { \global
   \override Beam #'grow-direction = #RIGHT
   \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 1 2)
 { r16 r r r r r16 -> -. \sfz }
}
\score {
  << \new Staff \upper
\new Staff \lower >>
}


--
Phil Holmes


  - Original Message - 
  From: Stefan Thomas 
  To: lilypond-user 
  Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 9:42 AM
  Subject: synchronization of feathered beams


  Dear community,
  I have a problem with the synchronisation in the below quoted snippet.
  I expect to have the notes on the end of the bar on the same vertical height.
  How can I achieve it?
  Thanks for help,
  Stefan

  \version "2.12.3"
  global = { \time 7/8 }
  upper = { \global 
 \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 1 2)
   { des''8 -. [\p\< es''8 -. e''8 -. f''8 -. ges''8 -. as''8 -. c'''8 -> -. 
\f] } 
  }
  lower = { \global
 \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 1 2)
   { r2 r4   8 -> -. \sfz }
  }
  \score {
<< \new Staff \upper
  \new Staff \lower >>
  }





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synchronization of feathered beams

[Stefan Thomas]

Dear community,
I have a problem with the synchronisation in the below quoted snippet.
I expect to have the notes on the end of the bar on the same vertical
height.
How can I achieve it?
Thanks for help,
Stefan

\version "2.12.3"
global = { \time 7/8 }
upper = { \global
   \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 1 2)
 { des''8 -. [\p\< es''8 -. e''8 -. f''8 -. ges''8 -. as''8 -. c'''8 -> -.
\f] }
}
lower = { \global
   \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 1 2)
 { r2 r4   8 -> -. \sfz }
}
\score {
  << \new Staff \upper
\new Staff \lower >>
}
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Re: Feathered beams with tuplet fractions

[Trevor Daniels]

As David said, the syntax is wrong.

Both examples work fine if you prefix them with

\include "english.ly"
\score { {

and terminate with } }

Trevor

- Original Message - 
From: "Qian Li" 

To: 
Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 3:37 AM
Subject: Feathered beams with tuplet fractions


Why does lilypond choke on feathered 8:10 notes but handles 4:6 no 
problem?
The first example works (even the slur works), but the second 
doesn't.


Thanks.
Qian

\times 4/6{
\featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 6 8 ) {
\once \override Beam #'grow-direction = #RIGHT
bf16 ( ef g bf' g ef
}
}
cs,2)

%second example

\times 8/10{
\featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 6 8 ) {
\once \override Beam #'grow-direction = #RIGHT
as'16 ( bf cs bs as bs as g fs g }
}
fs4)








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Re: Feathered beams with tuplet fractions

[David Kastrup]

Qian Li  writes:

> Why does lilypond choke on feathered 8:10 notes but handles 4:6 no problem?
> The first example works (even the slur works), but the second doesn't.

Neither example works since it does not have lilypond syntax.  Apart
from that, you set the featherDurations to 6/8 in the second example.

> \times 4/6{
> \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 6 8 ) {
> \once \override Beam #'grow-direction = #RIGHT
>  bf16 ( ef g bf' g ef
> }
> }
> cs,2)
>
> %second example
>
> \times 8/10{
> \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 6 8 ) {
> \once \override Beam #'grow-direction = #RIGHT
> as'16 ( bf cs bs as bs as g fs g }
> }
> fs4)


-- 
David Kastrup



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Feathered beams with tuplet fractions

[Qian Li]

Why does lilypond choke on feathered 8:10 notes but handles 4:6 no problem?
The first example works (even the slur works), but the second doesn't.

Thanks.
Qian

\times 4/6{
\featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 6 8 ) {
\once \override Beam #'grow-direction = #RIGHT
 bf16 ( ef g bf' g ef
}
}
cs,2)

%second example

\times 8/10{
\featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 6 8 ) {
\once \override Beam #'grow-direction = #RIGHT
as'16 ( bf cs bs as bs as g fs g }
}
fs4)
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Re: Description of feathered beams

[Han-Wen Nienhuys]

There is one importatnt caveat with the feathering functions: the
numbers in the ratio (here: 2/1) have to be small otherwise our
Rational type overflows.


2007/10/23, Graham Percival <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> I can't speak to the specifics of feathered beams, but there's two
> general warnings:
> - explanations about what the notation means should go in the glossary.
>   I might keep the first sentence in your explanation, but move other
> parts to the glossary.
>

-- 
Han-Wen Nienhuys - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen


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Re: Description of feathered beams

[Graham Percival]

I can't speak to the specifics of feathered beams, but there's two 
general warnings:
- explanations about what the notation means should go in the glossary. 
 I might keep the first sentence in your explanation, but move other 
parts to the glossary.


- avoid "talking through" the lilypond code -- I'm looking at your 
second paragraph here.  If something is obvious from the code, don't 
type it in words.  ie remove grow-direction, fraction is supplied, etc. 
 There are two reasons for this:
1) it's redundant, since the example explains it already.  (remember 
that users already know the general theory of tweaking from the LM)
2) if the syntax changes in the future, the @lilypond[] example will be 
automatically updated with convert-ly.  This doesn't apply to the main 
text, however.


Cheers,
- Graham

PS are you going to update your "reply-to" email field?


Trevor Daniels wrote:

I'm attempting to improve the very brief description
of feathered beams in the GDP Notation Reference.
Could those of you more knowledgeable than I am please
check the following draft and either correct or confirm
it.  Thanks.

Trevor D

"Feathered beams are used to indicate that a small group of
notes
should be played at an increasing (or decreasing) tempo,
without
changing the overall tempo of the piece.  Within the group
the
tempo accelerates (or decelerates) then returns to the
original
tempo.  Such figures may be printed by setting the
'grow-direction' property of a beam and specifying
a fraction which indicates the ratio of the duration of the
first note of the group to the last.  This fraction is
supplied
to the \featherDurations music function which operates on
the
following short music expression to adjust the durations of
the
notes.  The beam extent must be indicated manually using [
and ].
The spacing in the printed output represents the note
lengths
only approximately, but the midi output is exact.

"In the following example the eight 16th notes occupy
exactly
the same time as a half note, but the first note is twice
as short as the last one, with the intermediate notes
gradually
lengthening."

\paper {
  ragged-right = ##t
}
\relative c' {
  \override Beam #'grow-direction = #LEFT
  \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 2 1)
  { c16[ c c c c c c c] }
}



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Description of feathered beams

[Trevor Daniels]

I'm attempting to improve the very brief description
of feathered beams in the GDP Notation Reference.
Could those of you more knowledgeable than I am please
check the following draft and either correct or confirm
it.  Thanks.

Trevor D

"Feathered beams are used to indicate that a small group of
notes
should be played at an increasing (or decreasing) tempo,
without
changing the overall tempo of the piece.  Within the group
the
tempo accelerates (or decelerates) then returns to the
original
tempo.  Such figures may be printed by setting the
'grow-direction' property of a beam and specifying
a fraction which indicates the ratio of the duration of the
first note of the group to the last.  This fraction is
supplied
to the \featherDurations music function which operates on
the
following short music expression to adjust the durations of
the
notes.  The beam extent must be indicated manually using [
and ].
The spacing in the printed output represents the note
lengths
only approximately, but the midi output is exact.

"In the following example the eight 16th notes occupy
exactly
the same time as a half note, but the first note is twice
as short as the last one, with the intermediate notes
gradually
lengthening."

\paper {
  ragged-right = ##t
}
\relative c' {
  \override Beam #'grow-direction = #LEFT
  \featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 2 1)
  { c16[ c c c c c c c] }
}



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Re: Feathered beams

[Mats Bengtsson]

Michael Sperone wrote:


Thank you for your help, I thought I might need to change the settings 
back.


I did get a chance to look through the chapters you mentioned, but 
couldn't really find anything that would change the settings back for 
the feathered beams.  I'm not sure exactly what it is I should be 
typing.  Sorry if it's obvious, but I'm not seeing it.  I will keep 
trying different things though.



The documentation of the feathered beams says that you get them by
setting a certain property. This implies that you should revert that setting
to get back to ordinary beams. The general principles for setting and 
reverting
properties are described in the sections Graham refered to. So, to get 
back to

ordinary beams, just insert a
\revert Beam #'grow-direction

If you only want a single feathered beam, this also means that you can 
use the

\once \override feature, see my example below.

I realize why you were mislead by the example in the manual, since the
property setting and the use of the function \featherDurations are two
completely different things. The following example illustrates the
concepts more in detail. I will include this example in LSR and also
make a small change to the example in the manual to reduce the risk of
confusion.

\version "2.10.0"

\relative c''
<<
\new Staff {
% Turn on feathered beams:
\override Beam #'grow-direction = #LEFT

% Example of a beamed sequence:
bes32\p\>[ ges d' bes, c' ges a ges \!]

% When the factor is 4/4=1, you get the same as without \featherDurations
\featherDurations #(ly:make-moment  4 4)
{ bes32\p\>[ ges d' bes, c' ges a ges \!] }

% When the factor is >1, you get a ritardando-like placement of the
% notes (and sound in the MIDI output).
\featherDurations #(ly:make-moment  6 4)
{ bes32\p\>[ ges d' bes, c' ges a ges \!] }

% When the factor is <1, you get accelerando, i.e. you should
% really only use if when \override Beam #'grow-direction = #RIGHT
\featherDurations #(ly:make-moment  3 4)
{ bes32\p\>[ ges d' bes, c' ges a ges \!] }

% Revert back to ordinary beams:
\revert Beam #'grow-direction
bes32\p\>[ ges d' bes, c' ges a ges \!]

% Get a single feathered beam, using \once \override:
\once \override Beam #'grow-direction = #LEFT
bes32\p\>[ ges d' bes, c' ges a ges \!]
bes32\p\>[ ges d' bes, c' ges a ges \!]

% The \featherDurations function just adjusts the durations
% of the notes and can be used without % feathered beams:
\featherDurations #(ly:make-moment  6 4)
{ bes32\p\>[ ges d' bes, c' ges a ges \!] }

}

% Reference rhythm to compare to:
\new Staff \repeat unfold 64 { c32 }
>>


  /Mats


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Re: Feathered beams

[Graham Percival]

Michael Sperone wrote:
I can't tell what I am doing wrong, as I understood it, once I enter 
that last "}" then everything should good back to normal, correct? or 
is there something else I need to do?
No, there's no scoping rule like that.  :)  You need to revert the 
setting; see chapters 3-5 or 9.


Cheers,
- Graham



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Feathered beams

[Michael Sperone]

Hi,
 I have started using lilypond successfully and like it a lot, but I have run into one problem which I  cannot figure out for the life of me.  I entered feathered beams for one beat, and now all the music I enter on that staff from that point on is feathered.

I am using version 2.10.25 on Mac OSX
this is what I entered to get feathered beams:

\featherDurations #(ly:make-moment 5 4) { \override Beam #'grow-direction = #LEFT bes'32\p\>[ ges' d'' bes c'' ges'\!]} 

and everything I enter after this results in more feathered beamed groups of notes

I can't tell what I am doing wrong, as I understood it, once I enter that last "}" then everything should good back to normal, correct? or is there something else I need to do?

thanks
Michael
 



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Re: Feathered Beams

[Erik Sandberg]

On Thursday 15 September 2005 18.37, Mehmet Okonsar wrote:
> Can anybody make a definitive implementation of that or should I add this
> to my list of "items to sponsor" (which seems to grove alarmingly..)?

that feature is listed at
http://lilypond-design.com/sponsor/open-features.html

-- 
Erik


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Feathered Beams

[Mehmet Okonsar]

Can anybody make a definitive implementation of that or should I add this to
my list of "items to sponsor" (which seems to grove alarmingly..)?

Best Regards,
Mehmet Okonsar, pianist-composer
www.okonsar.com



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Re: feathered beams

[Peter Lutek]

On Mon, 2004-06-14 at 17:40, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> > On Mon, 2004-06-14 at 11:16, Bryan, Chris wrote: 
> > > Is it possible to do feathered beams in LY?  If so, how?
> > 
> > there is no native mechanism for this. i hacked it a while ago by making
> > two simultaneous beamed note-groups, with the beams tilted opposite
> > directions in each, and tweaked so the beam start-points were the same.
> > lily's spacing algorithm was sufficiently reliable that i didn't have to
> > worry about making one set of noteheads or stems disappear - they always
> > coincided exactly.
> > 
> > that was back on 2.0.0, so things may have changed since then.
> 
> We'd love to have a small example of this, for our tips & tricks
> document. Could you could code one up for us?

see attached ly.
-p
\version "2.2.0"

%$ "\times 1/2" allows 8 eighths to occupy only two beats.
%$ Adjust beam angles with the Voice.Beam #'positions arguments.
%$
%$ Note that this will produce warnings: "Too many clashing notecolumns. Ignoring 
them."

\score {
\notes  \relative c' {
\context Voice {  << { \stemUp \once \override Voice.Beam #'positions = #'(0 . 
0.5)
   \once \override Voice.TupletBracket #'number-visibility 
= ##f 
   \times 1/2 { c8[ c c c c c c c]} } \\
 { \stemUp \once \override Voice.Beam #'positions = #'(0 . 
-0.5) 
   \once \override Voice.TupletBracket #'number-visibility 
= ##f 
   \times 1/2 { c[ c c c c c c c] }} >> } r2
} 
\paper { raggedright = ##t }

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Re: feathered beams

[Peter Lutek]

On Mon, 2004-06-14 at 17:40, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> > On Mon, 2004-06-14 at 11:16, Bryan, Chris wrote: 
> > > Is it possible to do feathered beams in LY?  If so, how?
> > 
> > there is no native mechanism for this. i hacked it a while ago by making
> > two simultaneous beamed note-groups, with the beams tilted opposite
> > directions in each, and tweaked so the beam start-points were the same.
> > lily's spacing algorithm was sufficiently reliable that i didn't have to
> > worry about making one set of noteheads or stems disappear - they always
> > coincided exactly.
> > 
> > that was back on 2.0.0, so things may have changed since then.
> 
> We'd love to have a small example of this, for our tips & tricks
> document. Could you could code one up for us?

sure... but give me a day or two. i'm super busy right now.

-p



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Re: feathered beams

[Han-Wen Nienhuys]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> On Mon, 2004-06-14 at 11:16, Bryan, Chris wrote: 
> > Is it possible to do feathered beams in LY?  If so, how?
> 
> there is no native mechanism for this. i hacked it a while ago by making
> two simultaneous beamed note-groups, with the beams tilted opposite
> directions in each, and tweaked so the beam start-points were the same.
> lily's spacing algorithm was sufficiently reliable that i didn't have to
> worry about making one set of noteheads or stems disappear - they always
> coincided exactly.
> 
> that was back on 2.0.0, so things may have changed since then.

We'd love to have a small example of this, for our tips & tricks
document. Could you could code one up for us?

-- 

 Han-Wen Nienhuys   |   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   |   http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen 



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Re: feathered beams

[Han-Wen Nienhuys]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> I don't know how hard it would be to implement that, but I do know a 
> bit of c++.  If the developers need any grunt-work accomplished, let me 
> know.

If you're into serious grunting: the code is in lily/beam.cc,
Beam::print(), and it should not be so difficult to add an extra slant
for each beam.  The bad news is that the code is rather intricate,
since it has to deal with a lot of cases. If you're going to try this, 
you might first want to tackle the 

/*
  TODO: should not make beams per stem, but per Y-level.
 */

-- 

 Han-Wen Nienhuys   |   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   |   http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen 



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Re: feathered beams

[Bryan, Chris]

If it isn't yet "officially" possible (although I like your hack!), I 
would absolutely LOVE to see it as a feature in a future release.
(Consider that a subtle hint to the developers!)

More specifically, it would be cool to be able to specify the number of 
starting/ending beams, allow for direction changes in mid-group, and 
the total duration of the group.  For midi it could then dynamically 
calculate the duration of each individual note.

I don't know how hard it would be to implement that, but I do know a 
bit of c++.  If the developers need any grunt-work accomplished, let me 
know.

By the way, in my opinion, the coolest LY feature is the automatic midi 
pitch bends when using microtonal accidentals.  It rocks!!!

a happy composer,
-Chris Bryan
On Jun 14, 2004, at 12:13 PM, Peter Lutek wrote:
On Mon, 2004-06-14 at 11:16, Bryan, Chris wrote:
Is it possible to do feathered beams in LY?  If so, how?
there is no native mechanism for this. i hacked it a while ago by 
making
two simultaneous beamed note-groups, with the beams tilted opposite
directions in each, and tweaked so the beam start-points were the same.
lily's spacing algorithm was sufficiently reliable that i didn't have 
to
worry about making one set of noteheads or stems disappear - they 
always
coincided exactly.

that was back on 2.0.0, so things may have changed since then.
if anyone else has a better solution, i'd love to hear it too!
-p


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Re: feathered beams

[Peter Lutek]

On Mon, 2004-06-14 at 11:16, Bryan, Chris wrote: 
> Is it possible to do feathered beams in LY?  If so, how?

there is no native mechanism for this. i hacked it a while ago by making
two simultaneous beamed note-groups, with the beams tilted opposite
directions in each, and tweaked so the beam start-points were the same.
lily's spacing algorithm was sufficiently reliable that i didn't have to
worry about making one set of noteheads or stems disappear - they always
coincided exactly.

that was back on 2.0.0, so things may have changed since then.

if anyone else has a better solution, i'd love to hear it too!

-p



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feathered beams

[Bryan, Chris]

Is it possible to do feathered beams in LY?  If so, how?
Thanks,
-Chris

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