Re: Install of SUSE Linux on IBM z LPAR
Ok, looks like you already have your linux installer running, but still need access to a installation repository. I read about quite a number of possibilities that are all network related. However, there is some more that could be done in theory, but have requirements: 1. Use a Fibre Channel attached DVD Rom. That way, you can not only boot from the DVD, but also install from there. It is not easy however to find such a device. In our local installation, we have a pathlight gateway attached to the SAN. The actual DVD drive is a SATA drive that has a SATA - SCSI converter which in turn is attached to the pathlight gateway. 2. Write all the contents of the DVD to a Disk with a Linux supported filesystem (zFCP or DASD) and use the expert mode to activate that disk in the installer. After this, you can install from directory. 3. With zFCP, it should even be possible to just dump the disk to the Fibre Channel device and use it as installation source. Unlike the zFCP attached DVD Rom, you will not be able to boot from there, but still can use it as installation repository. 4. If you already had z/VM, you can also install there and later on run the guest from LPAR. For this, the disk device must also be available to both systems. For the sake of completeness (probably not helpful in your case): Internally, we use a shared zFCP disk for a netboot system. The actual system is a KIWI appliance that is loaded from the netboot during bootup. That way, we can deploy our buildservice worker by just doing a reipl over snipl (and yes, this is on LPAR). That however really needs a networked installation server. Berthold On Wed, 4 Feb 2015 18:15:04 -0600 Steve P steve.lin...@gmail.com wrote: Thank Mark for your detailed response. I have check all that and all the network config is there and I can see the OSA and all the IP addresses. I don't think I will be using the z/OS FTP server. Thanks also Alan for your input. I am continuing to try accessing the hmc FTP server by way of enabling the access to the DVD. It doesn't seem to be working and continue to get the no repository found. So now the challenge is how to help the network group in figuring out how to open that access between the installer/lpar and the FTP network of the hmc DVD. Any ideas? I will also look at a network FTP server outside of the hmc. Since the DVD is at a different location than where I am, I will have to find a way to copy them from the DVD to an FTP server without losing its integrity. Thanks. On Tuesday, February 3, 2015, Alan Altmark alan_altm...@us.ibm.com wrote: On Tuesday, 02/03/2015 at 03:46 EST, Steve P steve.lin...@gmail.com javascript:; wrote: So for the FTP file server I can use the hmc enable FTP access to mass storage media giving the installer the IP address of the hmc. And giving the lpar IP address to the hmc FTP facility (for lack of a better name/word). I just want to know for sure If this is valid option for me. If not then I will abandon it and move to other options. Yes, using the HMC as an FTP server is a valid option. If it helps, know that there are special instructions that must be used to read the data from the DVD from inside the LPAR. The LPAR is still authorized to use those instructions (like VM TCP/IP does), but without that removable media device driver, the authorization does it no good. The special instructions you're talking about is the proverbial device driver that IBM is yet to develop/allow. Correct? So for now an IP network is best? Correct, the special instructions would be used by a DVD device driver. So for now, an IP network your best (only) choice. The only question is how much control you have over the environment. If you wanted to, you could set up an FTP server on your own workstation, put the DVD into your workstation's DVD drive, tell the HMC to Load from FTP Server. Then point to the installer to your FTP server. Alan Altmark Senior Managing z/VM and Linux Consultant Lab Services System z Delivery Practice IBM Systems Technology Group ibm.com/systems/services/labservices office: 607.429.3323 mobile; 607.321.7556 alan_altm...@us.ibm.com javascript:; IBM Endicott -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu javascript:; with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/ -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit
Re: Install of SUSE Linux on IBM z LPAR
On 2/5/2015 at 10:33 PM, Scott Rohling scott.rohl...@gmail.com wrote: I find that the Linux install under z/VM on a new z has the same issue ... you need an existing install server (not on the z) to do an install of the DVD image or install directories. Once you have one built you can turn it into your new install server -- but until then you're stuck trying to network to an external (from the z) server.Or... am I hopelessly behind and not aware of current solutions? (happens more and more often as I approach senility) A Linux minidisk image (PIPEDDR, whatever) setup as an install server would be great -- but are the distributors willing to provide this? For z/VM there's the SUSE Linux Enterprise Server Starter System. It's been available for the last seven (7) years: https://download.suse.com/Download?buildid=l5_UjT5Nvmk~ I guess I'm asking: is there a distributor solution for bare hardware that doesn't require network access to some other box? My impression is no.. This is an entirely different question. For bare metal/LPAR installs, no. At least not yet. If that HMC DVD driver doesn't appear soon, I've got an idea that I believe will work. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/
Re: Install of SUSE Linux on IBM z LPAR
I find that the Linux install under z/VM on a new z has the same issue ... you need an existing install server (not on the z) to do an install of the DVD image or install directories. Once you have one built you can turn it into your new install server -- but until then you're stuck trying to network to an external (from the z) server.Or... am I hopelessly behind and not aware of current solutions? (happens more and more often as I approach senility) A Linux minidisk image (PIPEDDR, whatever) setup as an install server would be great -- but are the distributors willing to provide this? I guess I'm asking: is there a distributor solution for bare hardware that doesn't require network access to some other box? My impression is no.. Scott Rohling On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Mark Post mp...@suse.com wrote: On 2/5/2015 at 01:30 PM, Alan Altmark alan_altm...@us.ibm.com wrote: I think it's because we are very afraid of telling people what to do. I Hah! Tell Chuckie that was a good one. think if we had to start all over again, I would vote for exactly two ways to install in an LPAR: 1. Boot (load) from removable media or FTP server and install from the same source (needs that new device driver!!). The DVD is in the HMC drive or loaded on my laptop with an FTP server :-). If the driver had been available 15 years ago, things would be very different. But, it still is not, so... 2. Boot from SCSI and install from the boot device (needs 'install from directory'!!). That could be physical DVD:or contents copied to a SAN disk. This avoids what I like to call theInstallation Two-Step. No need to try to loop out-of-band back to the media. For most sites, asking them to use SCSI over FCP is problematic at best. Since z/OS doesn't talk SCSI, there's not a lot of skills there to make it work. Heck, even our z/VM using customers have some problems with it. Good for selling consulting services I guess, but not a real popular idea for sites that don't want to spend money on that. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/ -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/
Re: Install of SUSE Linux on IBM z LPAR
On Thu, 5 Feb 2015 19:33:11 -0800 Scott Rohling scott.rohl...@gmail.com wrote: I find that the Linux install under z/VM on a new z has the same issue ... you need an existing install server (not on the z) to do an install of the DVD image or install directories. Once you have one built you can turn it into your new install server -- but until then you're stuck trying to network to an external (from the z) server. Or... am I hopelessly behind and not aware of current solutions? (happens more and more often as I approach senility) A Linux minidisk image (PIPEDDR, whatever) setup as an install server would be great -- but are the distributors willing to provide this? Just two weeks ago, we managed to build SUSE Manager as appliance for EDEV in our build service. This includes an installation server as well as system management. What you could do with that is just dumping the appliance image to a Fibre Channel disk and then boot it as emulated DASD from z/VM. If you are interested, please contact me off the list. I guess I'm asking: is there a distributor solution for bare hardware that doesn't require network access to some other box? My impression is no.. Well, I don't know if the distributors are aware of all the different issues that are around. You might want to ask for specific features, and if this comes from a customer and not just from internal staff, it might come in some service pack or new major release. Berthold -- -- Berthold Gunreben Build Service Team http://www.suse.de/ Maxfeldstr. 5 SUSE LINUX GmbHD-90409 Nuernberg, Germany GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Jennifer Guild, Dilip Upmanyu, Graham Norton HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/
Re: Install of SUSE Linux on IBM z LPAR
How about under z/VM?z/VM I can install from DVD on the HMC... now I want to install (an enterprise edition of) Linux... as far as I know, I still can't do it without networking to an external server. This is where I'm hoping I'm just behind the times.. What I'm wanting is a way to give a customer a quick POC of z/VM-Linux without requiring they have an existing server that must be networked to. In some situations, this has been a deal breaker.. Outside of working through the firewalls, finding someone in the customer org to 'host' the DVD image/directory can be a problem. It's a little confounding to them to explain this need to install a mainframe product.That's why I've been thinking about an ECKD image 'starter system' that can be FTP'd to z/VM and restored with a small Linux on it to act as install server for either one or many penguins. But being that I can't distribute Linux in any such fashion for a customer - I keep hoping the distributors will come up with a simple starter system. Have they and I missed it? Scott Rohling On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 8:07 PM, Mark Post mp...@suse.com wrote: On 2/5/2015 at 10:33 PM, Scott Rohling scott.rohl...@gmail.com wrote: I find that the Linux install under z/VM on a new z has the same issue ... you need an existing install server (not on the z) to do an install of the DVD image or install directories. Once you have one built you can turn it into your new install server -- but until then you're stuck trying to network to an external (from the z) server.Or... am I hopelessly behind and not aware of current solutions? (happens more and more often as I approach senility) A Linux minidisk image (PIPEDDR, whatever) setup as an install server would be great -- but are the distributors willing to provide this? For z/VM there's the SUSE Linux Enterprise Server Starter System. It's been available for the last seven (7) years: https://download.suse.com/Download?buildid=l5_UjT5Nvmk~ I guess I'm asking: is there a distributor solution for bare hardware that doesn't require network access to some other box? My impression is no.. This is an entirely different question. For bare metal/LPAR installs, no. At least not yet. If that HMC DVD driver doesn't appear soon, I've got an idea that I believe will work. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/ -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/
Re: Install of SUSE Linux on IBM z LPAR
On 2/6/2015 at 12:03 AM, Scott Rohling scott.rohl...@gmail.com wrote: How about under z/VM?z/VM I can install from DVD on the HMC... now I want to install (an enterprise edition of) Linux... as far as I know, I still can't do it without networking to an external server. This is where I'm hoping I'm just behind the times.. That's what I was talking about. The SUSE Linux Enterprise Server Starter System will do just that. What I'm wanting is a way to give a customer a quick POC of z/VM-Linux without requiring they have an existing server that must be networked to. In some situations, this has been a deal breaker.. Outside of working through the firewalls, finding someone in the customer org to 'host' the DVD image/directory can be a problem. It's a little confounding to them to explain this need to install a mainframe product.That's why I've been thinking about an ECKD image 'starter system' that can be FTP'd to z/VM and restored with a small Linux on it to act as install server for either one or many penguins. But being that I can't distribute Linux in any such fashion for a customer - I keep hoping the distributors will come up with a simple starter system. Have they and I missed it? Yes, you have missed it. https://download.suse.com/Download?buildid=l5_UjT5Nvmk~ That will do exactly what you want, and for exactly the same reasons you list. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/
Re: Install of SUSE Linux on IBM z LPAR
On 2/5/2015 at 01:30 PM, Alan Altmark alan_altm...@us.ibm.com wrote: I think it's because we are very afraid of telling people what to do. I Hah! Tell Chuckie that was a good one. think if we had to start all over again, I would vote for exactly two ways to install in an LPAR: 1. Boot (load) from removable media or FTP server and install from the same source (needs that new device driver!!). The DVD is in the HMC drive or loaded on my laptop with an FTP server :-). If the driver had been available 15 years ago, things would be very different. But, it still is not, so... 2. Boot from SCSI and install from the boot device (needs 'install from directory'!!). That could be physical DVD:or contents copied to a SAN disk. This avoids what I like to call theInstallation Two-Step. No need to try to loop out-of-band back to the media. For most sites, asking them to use SCSI over FCP is problematic at best. Since z/OS doesn't talk SCSI, there's not a lot of skills there to make it work. Heck, even our z/VM using customers have some problems with it. Good for selling consulting services I guess, but not a real popular idea for sites that don't want to spend money on that. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/
Re: Install of SUSE Linux on IBM z LPAR
Looks like I was able to access the DVD from the hmc using the enable FTP access. After various attempts of going through the installer prompts and verifying and issuing shell cmds that I am able to see the DVD and its contents, it finally worked. It may have been the sequence of events of when I enabled access to the DVD or just being able to issue cmds to verify access and contents to the DVD. So now I am passed the **no repository message found and finished all 6 of 6 Loading installation system. Thanks to all who responded and assisted. Especially to Mark and Alan for their insight and expertise. From this point, I think it may not be as challenging in terms of network issues. I hope. But if something comes up, I may post again for assistance. Kind Regards, Steve On Thursday, February 5, 2015, Berthold Gunreben b...@suse.de wrote: Ok, looks like you already have your linux installer running, but still need access to a installation repository. I read about quite a number of possibilities that are all network related. However, there is some more that could be done in theory, but have requirements: 1. Use a Fibre Channel attached DVD Rom. That way, you can not only boot from the DVD, but also install from there. It is not easy however to find such a device. In our local installation, we have a pathlight gateway attached to the SAN. The actual DVD drive is a SATA drive that has a SATA - SCSI converter which in turn is attached to the pathlight gateway. 2. Write all the contents of the DVD to a Disk with a Linux supported filesystem (zFCP or DASD) and use the expert mode to activate that disk in the installer. After this, you can install from directory. 3. With zFCP, it should even be possible to just dump the disk to the Fibre Channel device and use it as installation source. Unlike the zFCP attached DVD Rom, you will not be able to boot from there, but still can use it as installation repository. 4. If you already had z/VM, you can also install there and later on run the guest from LPAR. For this, the disk device must also be available to both systems. For the sake of completeness (probably not helpful in your case): Internally, we use a shared zFCP disk for a netboot system. The actual system is a KIWI appliance that is loaded from the netboot during bootup. That way, we can deploy our buildservice worker by just doing a reipl over snipl (and yes, this is on LPAR). That however really needs a networked installation server. Berthold On Wed, 4 Feb 2015 18:15:04 -0600 Steve P steve.lin...@gmail.com javascript:; wrote: Thank Mark for your detailed response. I have check all that and all the network config is there and I can see the OSA and all the IP addresses. I don't think I will be using the z/OS FTP server. Thanks also Alan for your input. I am continuing to try accessing the hmc FTP server by way of enabling the access to the DVD. It doesn't seem to be working and continue to get the no repository found. So now the challenge is how to help the network group in figuring out how to open that access between the installer/lpar and the FTP network of the hmc DVD. Any ideas? I will also look at a network FTP server outside of the hmc. Since the DVD is at a different location than where I am, I will have to find a way to copy them from the DVD to an FTP server without losing its integrity. Thanks. On Tuesday, February 3, 2015, Alan Altmark alan_altm...@us.ibm.com javascript:; wrote: On Tuesday, 02/03/2015 at 03:46 EST, Steve P steve.lin...@gmail.com javascript:; javascript:; wrote: So for the FTP file server I can use the hmc enable FTP access to mass storage media giving the installer the IP address of the hmc. And giving the lpar IP address to the hmc FTP facility (for lack of a better name/word). I just want to know for sure If this is valid option for me. If not then I will abandon it and move to other options. Yes, using the HMC as an FTP server is a valid option. If it helps, know that there are special instructions that must be used to read the data from the DVD from inside the LPAR. The LPAR is still authorized to use those instructions (like VM TCP/IP does), but without that removable media device driver, the authorization does it no good. The special instructions you're talking about is the proverbial device driver that IBM is yet to develop/allow. Correct? So for now an IP network is best? Correct, the special instructions would be used by a DVD device driver. So for now, an IP network your best (only) choice. The only question is how much control you have over the environment. If you wanted to, you could set up an FTP server on your own workstation, put the DVD into your workstation's DVD drive, tell the HMC to Load from FTP Server. Then point to the
Re: Install of SUSE Linux on IBM z LPAR
On 2/4/2015 at 07:15 PM, Steve P steve.lin...@gmail.com wrote: -snip- I am continuing to try accessing the hmc FTP server by way of enabling the access to the DVD. It doesn't seem to be working and continue to get the no repository found. So now the challenge is how to help the network group in figuring out how to open that access between the installer/lpar and the FTP network of the hmc DVD. Your network group should be able to sniff the network traffic and figure out how far you're getting. -snip- I will also look at a network FTP server outside of the hmc. Since the DVD is at a different location than where I am, I will have to find a way to copy them from the DVD to an FTP server without losing its integrity. The ISO images are free to download to whatever system you want, so you don't need to mess with the physical DVD in the HMC. https://download.suse.com/Download?buildid=BLdoZduRmbE~ Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/
Re: Install of SUSE Linux on IBM z LPAR
On 2/5/2015 at 03:17 AM, Berthold Gunreben b...@suse.de wrote: 2. Write all the contents of the DVD to a Disk with a Linux supported filesystem (zFCP or DASD) and use the expert mode to activate that disk in the installer. After this, you can install from directory. 3. With zFCP, it should even be possible to just dump the disk to the Fibre Channel device and use it as installation source. Unlike the zFCP attached DVD Rom, you will not be able to boot from there, but still can use it as installation repository. Unfortunately, the installer does not allow for install from a directory on System z. I believe it was removed because no one ever used that method. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/
Re: Install of SUSE Linux on IBM z LPAR
One other thought... Consider working with your IBM reseller. The normally have people that can help you through things like the initial installs. And if this is intended to be (or become) a real Proof of Concept, they can frequently help you get a trial for z/VM to show you how much easier it can make your life, as well as other parts you may want... Lee Stewart ● VM System Support ● Visa ● Phone: 6(750)4601 - +1-303-389-4601 ● lstew...@visa.com
Re: Install of SUSE Linux on IBM z LPAR
On Thursday, 02/05/2015 at 12:43 EST, Mark Post mp...@suse.com wrote: On 2/5/2015 at 03:17 AM, Berthold Gunreben b...@suse.de wrote: 3. With zFCP, it should even be possible to just dump the disk to the Fibre Channel device and use it as installation source. Unlike the zFCP attached DVD Rom, you will not be able to boot from there, but still can use it as installation repository. Unfortunately, the installer does not allow for install from a directory on System z. I believe it was removed because no one ever used that method. I think it's because we are very afraid of telling people what to do. I think if we had to start all over again, I would vote for exactly two ways to install in an LPAR: 1. Boot (load) from removable media or FTP server and install from the same source (needs that new device driver!!). The DVD is in the HMC drive or loaded on my laptop with an FTP server :-). 2. Boot from SCSI and install from the boot device (needs 'install from directory'!!). That could be physical DVD:or contents copied to a SAN disk. This avoids what I like to call theInstallation Two-Step. No need to try to loop out-of-band back to the media. Alan Altmark Senior Managing z/VM and Linux Consultant Lab Services System z Delivery Practice IBM Systems Technology Group ibm.com/systems/services/labservices office: 607.429.3323 mobile; 607.321.7556 alan_altm...@us.ibm.com IBM Endicott -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/
