Re: List FAQ etc
2 cents Also, certain supposedly modern mail programs make threading awkward to use, so the goal with those is quote the whole thing so that the fewest number of posts have to be kept, in order to have a copy of (or be able to find) the whole thread. On the other hand, if you receive a list in digest mode, that technique can be an abomination. It'd be cool if list servers gave, in addition to the current options of send as digest and send individual posts, something like send as threads. /2 cents Douglas Re: [LINUX-390] List FAQ etc David Boyes to: LINUX-390 08/25/2008 11:07 AM Sent by: Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Please respond to Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU I don't believe that everyone believes in pruning out everything. Many people reply at the top. If for no other reason than replies can be kept in context. I don't want to start a war about email etiquette here, just to say that I believe that not everyone agrees with points 3 4 below. I think more of us have simply given up trying to get people to do 3 4. Most of the modern workstation mail readers make it quite difficult to do in a reasonable manner, and those of us still reading mail with MAILBOOK and Pine (with proper mail editors like Emacs) just can't stem the tide. There are times where I really miss low bandwidth communications, where the size of transfers actually mattered. That drove most of the reasoning behind pruning out unnecessary stuff, and I think it helped the clarity of the conversation. But, I'm old and cranky now, so I'll shut up. -- db -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 image/gif
Re: List FAQ etc
Douglas Wooster wrote: 2 cents Also, certain supposedly modern mail programs make threading awkward to :-) Name names, I need something to scoff at:-) It might be someone can explain to you how it works, I've see that happen before, use, so the goal with those is quote the whole thing so that the fewest number of posts have to be kept, in order to have a copy of (or be able to find) the whole thread. On the other hand, if you receive a list in digest mode, that technique can be an abomination. It'd be cool if list servers gave, in addition to the current options of send as digest and send individual posts, something like send as threads. When should the server determine the thread's ended? or do you want the digest threaded? Years and years ago, I tried getting some list digested, and split the digest on receipt. I couldn't get it to work at all satisfactorily, and since then I've not seen a problem that digests solve. I do know some people still have problems with digests (I can tell when the subject references a digest), and I wonder whether they break threads when someone replies from a thread and remembers to set the subject properly. Is gmame a suitable alternative? -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: List FAQ etc
On 08/26/2008 11:34:58 AM, John Summerfield wrote: Douglas Wooster wrote: 2 cents Also, certain supposedly modern mail programs make threading awkward to :-) Name names, I need something to scoff at:-) It might be someone can explain to you how it works, I've see that happen before, Ummm, for ... economic ... reasons, I better claim the fifth. :) use, so the goal with those is quote the whole thing so that the fewest number of posts have to be kept, in order to have a copy of (or be able to find) the whole thread. On the other hand, if you receive a list in digest mode, that technique can be an abomination. It'd be cool if list servers gave, in addition to the current options of send as digest and send individual posts, something like send as threads. When should the server determine the thread's ended? or do you want the digest threaded? Threading the digest is interesting alternative. I wasn't expecting it to hold everything until the entire thread had been discussed. I was thinking more like send as threads being every time it forwards a post, attach all the preceeding posts of the thread to the new post (at top or bottom, as configured). Or collect posts, per-thread for some relatively short period of time to reduce the number of mailings (maybe an hour??). ... and I wonder whether they break threads when someone replies from a thread and remembers to set the subject properly. Not sure -- I do do that on some lists, but since digests inherently don't thread, I can't tell. Is gmame a suitable alternative? What's gmame? Douglas -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: List FAQ etc
Douglas Wooster wrote: Threading the digest is interesting alternative. I wasn't expecting it to hold everything until the entire thread had been discussed. I was thinking more like send as threads being every time it forwards a post, attach all the preceeding posts of the thread to the new post (at top or bottom, as configured). Or collect posts, per-thread for some relatively short period of time to reduce the number of mailings (maybe an hour??). You could be getting rather a lot of duplicate mail, if this persists for much longer:-) ... and I wonder whether they break threads when someone replies from a thread and remembers to set the subject properly. Not sure -- I do do that on some lists, but since digests inherently don't thread, I can't tell. Is gmame a suitable alternative? What's gmame? sp. gmane http://gmane.org/ I've never used it, but I gather one _could_ read this list there. http://gmane.org/faq.php -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: List FAQ etc
Klein, Robert (NIH/CIT) [C] wrote: I recently joined this list. The welcoming email gave a couple of URLs for such things as FAQs, but when I tried to access the urls, I got a page not found message. If these pages still exist somewhere else, could someone please provide the new urls. Also, the owner of the list might want to update the welcoming email. Thanks. There should be a separate email address of the owner; some list owners listen, some don't. I think the owner of this list actually reads it, though he doesn't actually write very often. Generally 1. Be nice:- 3. Prune irrelevant material, as I just did. 4. On most lists, respond in context to the points you want to address rather than responding at the top, with the attendant risk of leaving readers guessing which point you're talking about. Venture off-topic carefully. Discussing a war in the middle east is risky, but you might get away with a reference or two to mainframes of the 60s and 70s. Oh, try to solve your problem(s) yourself first, and make it clear by describing what you have done. Links in my sig offer other advice on this. People on this list and others like it are here because it's fun and they like helping. Few, if anyone, are paid to help people here. Finally, a problem description like this, My computer won't boot, may well be ignored. People need details to make a sensible guess at what might be wrong. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: List FAQ etc
I don't believe that everyone believes in pruning out everything. Many people reply at the top. If for no other reason than replies can be kept in context. I don't want to start a war about email etiquette here, just to say that I believe that not everyone agrees with points 3 4 below. BTW, what happened to point #2? Regards, Kevin -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Summerfield Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 2:59 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: List FAQ etc Klein, Robert (NIH/CIT) [C] wrote: I recently joined this list. The welcoming email gave a couple of URLs for such things as FAQs, but when I tried to access the urls, I got a page not found message. If these pages still exist somewhere else, could someone please provide the new urls. Also, the owner of the list might want to update the welcoming email. Thanks. There should be a separate email address of the owner; some list owners listen, some don't. I think the owner of this list actually reads it, though he doesn't actually write very often. Generally 1. Be nice:- 3. Prune irrelevant material, as I just did. 4. On most lists, respond in context to the points you want to address rather than responding at the top, with the attendant risk of leaving readers guessing which point you're talking about. Venture off-topic carefully. Discussing a war in the middle east is risky, but you might get away with a reference or two to mainframes of the 60s and 70s. Oh, try to solve your problem(s) yourself first, and make it clear by describing what you have done. Links in my sig offer other advice on this. People on this list and others like it are here because it's fun and they like helping. Few, if anyone, are paid to help people here. Finally, a problem description like this, My computer won't boot, may well be ignored. People need details to make a sensible guess at what might be wrong. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: List FAQ etc
Evans, Kevin R wrote: I don't believe that everyone believes in pruning out everything. Many people reply at the top. If for no other reason than replies can be kept in context. There are arguments for and against top or bottom replies. In this reply I have chosen below, but then I have pruned the whole email thread from your posting. There is the point, we are not exchanging emails, we are posting to a common thread within a mailing-list. When posting to a mailing list there is no need to re-post data that is already available within the mailing list. You only need to leave the relevant text that you wish to refer to. SNIPING is encouraged! With SNIPING and bottom replies you can read the whole post from top to bottom in a logical manner. If you can't recall the previous post, you can always refer back to the mailing list archives. mark -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: List FAQ etc
Actually, sniping is discouraged. Snipping is encouraged. :) MA On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 6:52 AM, Mark Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: SNIPING is encouraged! mark -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: List FAQ etc
-Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port On Behalf Of Mark Perry When posting to a mailing list there is no need to re-post data that is already available within the mailing list. You only need to leave the relevant text that you wish to refer to. SNIPING is encouraged! Er, um, more than just a spelling faux pas, sniping is an entirely different word than snipping. :-) -jc- -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: List FAQ etc
Yes, I know there are arguments for and against. I wasn't trying to start a war (it's been discussed before ad nauseum). I thought that a newbie poster might not realize this. In my case, I tend to read a post, then reply or not, then delete the email. Therefore to me, I find it easier to be able to go back through and see the original post sometimes which one cannot do if it has been snipedg. Sometimes these posts can last for over a week...I can't always remember the original posted question. Plus, Outlook defaults to reply at the top! Kevin -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Perry Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 6:53 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: List FAQ etc Evans, Kevin R wrote: I don't believe that everyone believes in pruning out everything. Many people reply at the top. If for no other reason than replies can be kept in context. There are arguments for and against top or bottom replies. In this reply I have chosen below, but then I have pruned the whole email thread from your posting. There is the point, we are not exchanging emails, we are posting to a common thread within a mailing-list. When posting to a mailing list there is no need to re-post data that is already available within the mailing list. You only need to leave the relevant text that you wish to refer to. SNIPING is encouraged! With SNIPING and bottom replies you can read the whole post from top to bottom in a logical manner. If you can't recall the previous post, you can always refer back to the mailing list archives. mark -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: List FAQ etc
Mary Anne Matyaz wrote: Actually, sniping is discouraged. Snipping is encouraged. :) http://wilk4.com/humor/doh.htm mark -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: List FAQ etc
Evans, Kevin R wrote: Sometimes these posts can last for over a week...I can't always remember the original posted question. You do look at the archives by thread, right? example: http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-390@vm.marist.edu/ mark -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: List FAQ etc
I rarely look at the archives. I check my email constantly and handle any replies directly from my inbox. Kevin -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Perry Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 8:55 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: List FAQ etc Evans, Kevin R wrote: Sometimes these posts can last for over a week...I can't always remember the original posted question. You do look at the archives by thread, right? example: http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-390@vm.marist.edu/ mark -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: List FAQ etc
-Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port On Behalf Of Mark Perry Mary Anne Matyaz wrote: Actually, sniping is discouraged. Snipping is encouraged. :) http://wilk4.com/humor/doh.htm Previously spelled Duh, uttered most often by Moose in the Archie comic books. -jc- -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: List FAQ etc
I don't believe that everyone believes in pruning out everything. Many people reply at the top. If for no other reason than replies can be kept in context. I don't want to start a war about email etiquette here, just to say that I believe that not everyone agrees with points 3 4 below. I think more of us have simply given up trying to get people to do 3 4. Most of the modern workstation mail readers make it quite difficult to do in a reasonable manner, and those of us still reading mail with MAILBOOK and Pine (with proper mail editors like Emacs) just can't stem the tide. There are times where I really miss low bandwidth communications, where the size of transfers actually mattered. That drove most of the reasoning behind pruning out unnecessary stuff, and I think it helped the clarity of the conversation. But, I'm old and cranky now, so I'll shut up. -- db -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: List FAQ etc
On Mon, 25 Aug 2008, David Boyes wrote: Hi, I don't believe that everyone believes in pruning out everything. Many people reply at the top. If for no other reason than replies can be kept in context. I don't want to start a war about email etiquette here, just to say that I believe that not everyone agrees with points 3 4 below. I think more of us have simply given up trying to get people to do 3 4. Most of the modern workstation mail readers make it quite difficult to do in a reasonable manner, I have found that it's corporate setups that make this hard as most MUAs still support proper quoting. and those of us still reading mail with MAILBOOK and Pine (with proper mail editors like Emacs) just can't stem the tide. There are times where I really miss low bandwidth communications, where the size of transfers actually mattered. That drove most of the reasoning behind pruning out unnecessary stuff, and I think it helped the clarity of the conversation. But, I'm old and cranky now, so I'll shut up. So what about a good old usenet news group instead of a mailing list? Are news readers better? I mean I have no idea. rtin 's the most modern I know (ignoring the netscape3 I have forgotten about). We could also do the weekly FAQ post there (not that we could not do here if someone would volunteer to write it), to come back to the original subject. Cheers, Bjoern -- Bjoern A. Zeeb Stop bit received. Insert coin for new game. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: List FAQ etc
Evans, Kevin R wrote: I don't believe that everyone believes in pruning out everything. Many people reply at the top. If for no other reason than replies can be kept On most lists, top replies attract flames. in context. I don't want to start a war about email etiquette here, just to say that I believe that not everyone agrees with points 3 4 below. If you replied in context, I'd not need to scroll down to see what you're talking about. BTW, what happened to point #2? Data check. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: List FAQ etc
Evans, Kevin R wrote: Yes, I know there are arguments for and against. I wasn't trying to start a war (it's been discussed before ad nauseum). I thought that a newbie poster might not realize this. In my case, I tend to read a post, then reply or not, then delete the email. Therefore to me, I find it easier to be able to go back through and see the original post sometimes which one cannot do if it has been snipedg. Sometimes these posts can last for over a week...I can't always remember the original posted question. Plus, Outlook defaults to reply at the top! OTOH I don't delete one by one, I have a view that only shows threads containing unread. If I want to, I can create a filter that deletes (or moves to another folder) read mail that is older than some number of days, 7, 70, 170, 370 - my choice, and I find that's easier than deleting individual messages. I keep stuff around because I find it convenient to do so. Starting at the top, to choose points to reply to is sensible. I don't trust any email client to decide where I should start my reply. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: List FAQ etc
David Boyes wrote: There are times where I really miss low bandwidth communications, where the size of transfers actually mattered. That drove most of the Size still matters; until I moved house a year ago, I was pulling 4 Gbytes/month through my modem, and I really begrudged those who insist in padding out their replies by including an alternative, HTML version. reasoning behind pruning out unnecessary stuff, and I think it helped the clarity of the conversation. But, I'm old and cranky now, Me to. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
List FAQ etc
I recently joined this list. The welcoming email gave a couple of URLs for such things as FAQs, but when I tried to access the urls, I got a page not found message. If these pages still exist somewhere else, could someone please provide the new urls. Also, the owner of the list might want to update the welcoming email. Thanks. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
