Re: strange URL behaviour
Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: MTU. The MTU of your windows boxes is too big. Set it to about 1400. Why would that affect only specific URLs consistently? That's exactly the symptoms. There is nothing inherently wrong with having a local MTU larger than the path MTU. The problem only arises when a specific site filters icoming ICMP code 4 type 3. Even then, only the first packet that is actually larger than your PMTU will trigger the problem. In short - certain sites, certain conditions. Then again - if those conditions do occure, they are very likely to occure repeatedly. -- Shachar Shemesh Open Source integration consultant Home page & resume - http://www.shemesh.biz/ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: strange URL behaviour
If the site blocks ICM's source-quench, PathMTUDiscovery algorithm fails and the client can not determine the appropriate MTU for the destination. Blocking all ICMP traffic is not always a good idea. Guy On Tue, 2003-11-18 at 07:55, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: > "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > MTU. The MTU of your windows boxes is too big. Set it to about 1400. > > Why would that affect only specific URLs consistently? -- = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Fw: What's wrong with this code?
> -Original Message- > From: Oleg Goldshmidt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 8:40 PM > To: Tal, Shachar > Cc: 'Shachar Shemesh'; Guy Teverovsky; Linux-IL mailing list > Subject: Re: Fw: What's wrong with this code? > > > > The company I work for currently does not allow engineers access to > > code they have no business reading in the first place. > > They must have a *really* good reason for it. The disadvantages of > this approach are too many to count. The more code your programmers > read the better code they will write. External security restrictions > or "clean room" requirements can justify this, but hardly anything > else. In any case, the above exceptions should be just that - > exceptions. Usually companies write more code for internal consumption > than for customers. I have no idea what you're talking about. Being an IBM employee, I'm sure you are aware of software systems that are larger than any single person's perceptional abilities. Working on a multi-hundred man-years software, I seldom need to access code for subsystems I don't develop or maintain, and even more seldom need to understand its inner workings. Design documents are usually satisfactory. As for internal consumption vs. customer consumption - perhaps IBM can afford writing a lot of software for internal consumption. Most companies first write customer software then internal software. Granted, software is written internally everywhere (test suites, load suites, code generators, various automation efforts, even the sales people need Excel macros to compute what to charge a customer). But not as much as written for customer consumption. Shachar. This electronic message contains information from Verint Systems, which may be privileged and confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic message in error, please notify us by replying to this email. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Version control (was: Re: What's wrong with this code?)
On Tuesday 18 November 2003 04:22, Guy Teverovsky wrote: > CVS is not: version control mechanism which is content aware and action > driven. It lacks inline documentation features and code maintenance > (bugs, features) tracking... Actually, CVS is a version control system and *that's it*. ClearCase is simply much more. It's like trying to compare Sendmail to Exchange. Exchange has a mail server inside but to call Exchange a mail server is ridiculous. (save me the jokes about the bugs in BOTH Exchange and sendmail, I've hearde them all. Hell, I invented a few of them.. :-) > Have I mentioned the wink-ing ? Suppose you have an app that compiles 5 > hours and another developer has already done another build and parts of > the objects can be reused. As much as you might not like the product, it > saves a hell LOT of time as the version control mechanism will bring you > already compiled parts from the network. > Now consider an 6-7 hour build on a high-end workstation... > Well, I am starting to sound as a sales man, so I will stop here. Which is available seperatly in Open Source world, as ccache. Which brings me to my next related topic: Open Source software tends to create small flexible tools that do a single thing and do it well (e.g. CVS). You can combine several such tools to create a whole pacage that covers your needs (e.g. cvs + bugzilla + ccache). Closed Source software tends to build big packages that try to do everything. Some people prefer the flexability of multiple integratable single packets. Some people prefer the "full turnkey solution" of the closed source world. I'd leave my personal opionion of it for now :-) Gilad -- Gilad Ben-Yossef <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Codefidence. A name you can trust (tm) http://www.codefidence.com "Half of one of my eyes is already open. I'm going to make coffee now..." -- Kathi 16:08:04 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Version control (was: Re: What's wrong with this code?)
If only the small integratable single-minded tools were *easily* integratable, I suspect Rational would have gone of business a few years ago. Shachar Tal Verint Systems > -Original Message- > From: Gilad Ben-Yossef [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 9:38 AM > To: Guy Teverovsky; Linux-IL mailing list > Cc: Tal, Shachar; 'Shachar Shemesh' > Subject: Re: Version control (was: Re: What's wrong with this code?) > > > On Tuesday 18 November 2003 04:22, Guy Teverovsky wrote: > > > CVS is not: version control mechanism which is content > aware and action > > driven. It lacks inline documentation features and code maintenance > > (bugs, features) tracking... > > Actually, CVS is a version control system and *that's it*. > ClearCase is > simply much more. It's like trying to compare Sendmail to Exchange. > Exchange has a mail server inside but to call Exchange a mail > server is > ridiculous. (save me the jokes about the bugs in BOTH Exchange and > sendmail, I've hearde them all. Hell, I invented a few of them.. :-) > > > Have I mentioned the wink-ing ? Suppose you have an app > that compiles 5 > > hours and another developer has already done another build > and parts of > > the objects can be reused. As much as you might not like > the product, it > > saves a hell LOT of time as the version control mechanism > will bring you > > already compiled parts from the network. > > Now consider an 6-7 hour build on a high-end workstation... > > Well, I am starting to sound as a sales man, so I will stop here. > > Which is available seperatly in Open Source world, as ccache. > Which brings > me to my next related topic: > > Open Source software tends to create small flexible tools > that do a single > thing and do it well (e.g. CVS). You can combine several such > tools to > create a whole pacage that covers your needs (e.g. cvs + bugzilla + > ccache). > > Closed Source software tends to build big packages that try to do > everything. > > Some people prefer the flexability of multiple integratable > single packets. > Some people prefer the "full turnkey solution" of the closed > source world. > > I'd leave my personal opionion of it for now :-) > > Gilad > > -- > Gilad Ben-Yossef <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Codefidence. A name you can trust (tm) > http://www.codefidence.com > > "Half of one of my eyes is already open. I'm going to make > coffee now..." > -- Kathi 16:08:04 > This electronic message contains information from Verint Systems, which may be privileged and confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic message in error, please notify us by replying to this email. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: strange URL behaviour
Shlomo Solomon wrote: Hi, My network consists of my Mandrake 9.1 box and 3 Win98 machines. All 4 machines and my Alcatel ADSL modem are connected to a hub and I run iptables with masquerading to allow the Win98 machines access to the internet. Until recently, all machines could reach any URL. But recently, the Win98 machines cannot reach certain URLs. I suspected a DNS problem so I tried equivalent IP addresses but that didn't help. The strange thing is that **most** URLs are still reachable and I haven't noticed any common factor in the unreachable ones. Also, the URLs that can't be reached on the 3 Win98 machines can be reached by Mozilla on the Mandrake machine. Of course, I also cheched if the URLs could be reached from Windows machines not connected to my network. So the problem does seem to be here. Any ideas where to look? I'm enclosing two examples of unreachable URLs: www.maariv.co.il www.simil.vze.com TIA Are you using Squid as a proxy server? If so, restart the Squid service. I've seen this behaviour when the Squid process maxes out. Cheers, Henry = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Fw: What's wrong with this code?
"Tal, Shachar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I have no idea what you're talking about. More is the pity. Let me try to explain myself in a couple of simple sentences. To be a good software engineer, you need to read other people's code. To develop programs efficiently, you need to show your code to other people. A company that does not encourage these two activities whenever possible does not utilize the full potential of its developers (and I am being generous). IMHO, you need a very good reason *not* to do it. > Being an IBM employee, I'm sure you are aware of software systems > that are larger than any single person's perceptional abilities. > Working on a multi-hundred man-years software, I seldom need to > access code for subsystems I don't develop or maintain, and even > more seldom need to understand its inner workings. Design documents > are usually satisfactory. I never said you must read and learn *all* the code developed at your company. I only said that unless there are compelling reasons preventing this you should be able to access as much code as possible. What I said was generic, not IBM-specific. > As for internal consumption vs. customer consumption - perhaps IBM > can afford writing a lot of software for internal consumption. Most > companies first write customer software then internal software. These companies must be living in a dream world where everything they need for development actually exists before they start. I have worked for tiny struggling startups and for multibillion dollar multinationals - it's not a matter of money. This was not the case in any of them, and I have never heard of any case like that. You first create the scaffolding, then you build. You create more scaffolding as you build. > Granted, software is written internally everywhere (test suites, > load suites, code generators, various automation efforts, even the > sales people need Excel macros to compute what to charge a > customer). But not as much as written for customer consumption. If you know how to reach a ratio of internal to customer code of more than 10:1 (apart from Excel macros), and produce decent customer code, would you consider sharing the insights? -- Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Fw: What's wrong with this code?
Hi Oleg, > -Original Message- > From: Oleg Goldshmidt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 10:28 AM > To: Tal, Shachar > Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; 'Shachar Shemesh'; Guy Teverovsky > Subject: Re: Fw: What's wrong with this code? > > > "Tal, Shachar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > I have no idea what you're talking about. > > More is the pity. Let me try to explain myself in a couple of simple > sentences. To be a good software engineer, you need to read other > people's code. To develop programs efficiently, you need to show your > code to other people. A company that does not encourage these two > activities whenever possible does not utilize the full potential of > its developers (and I am being generous). IMHO, you need a very good > reason *not* to do it. Reason below. > > Being an IBM employee, I'm sure you are aware of software systems > > that are larger than any single person's perceptional abilities. > > Working on a multi-hundred man-years software, I seldom need to > > access code for subsystems I don't develop or maintain, and even > > more seldom need to understand its inner workings. Design documents > > are usually satisfactory. > > I never said you must read and learn *all* the code developed at your > company. I only said that unless there are compelling reasons > preventing this you should be able to access as much code as > possible. What I said was generic, not IBM-specific. Rest assured, my code is being read by others and I read other people's code. But not *everybody* read my code, nor do I bother with readying everybody's code. We use a buddy system. We have teams, each is in charge of specific subsystems. Inside teams, people read other peoples' code *all* the time by definition, since we do code reviews. Outside of teams, we have knowledge transfer sessions, both at top-level design stuff and low-level code stuff. And, yes, we consult with people from other teams when the need arises and sometimes when it doesn't. But I don't really need access to all code on a regular basis. Nor can I understand most of it (under the famous 30-second test) without guidance anyway. And it would be a wise precaution to compartmentalize, just in case I have very weak passwords *and* I leave my modem and PCAnywhere (with null password) up for the weekend, in case I may want to connect to work. You seem to view compartmentalizing as a tedious process, Dilbert-style. I do not. If I need access to code which I am not "privileged" for, I ask for it, and bang, 15 seconds later I have access to it. No big "fill-forms-in-three-copies-then-chase-disgruntled-IT-people" deal. The point I try to drive is, you don't need good reasons to compartmentalize. You need good reasons not to. > > As for internal consumption vs. customer consumption - perhaps IBM > > can afford writing a lot of software for internal consumption. Most > > companies first write customer software then internal software. > > These companies must be living in a dream world where everything they > need for development actually exists before they start. I have worked > for tiny struggling startups and for multibillion dollar > multinationals > - it's not a matter of money. This was not the case in any of them, > and I have never heard of any case like that. You first create the > scaffolding, then you build. You create more scaffolding as you build. Well, most tools do exist (e.g. source control, automated testing, UML code generator) for 99.9% per cent of the companies, who deal mostly with standard software engineering. The other 0.1% may require exotic tools (e.g. I have no idea how to test VMWare without special tools). > > Granted, software is written internally everywhere (test suites, > > load suites, code generators, various automation efforts, even the > > sales people need Excel macros to compute what to charge a > > customer). But not as much as written for customer consumption. > > If you know how to reach a ratio of internal to customer code of more > than 10:1 (apart from Excel macros), and produce decent customer code, > would you consider sharing the insights? You seem to either be really amazed by what I said. People, am I the only one in the forum who thinks that most code written is production code? Shachar. This electronic message contains information from Verint Systems, which may be privileged and confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic message in error, please notify us by replying to this email. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED
silly gnome-panel question
I know it is totally uncool to admit using such a vulgar application, but I have a question about it: How can I run a certain X app, let's say xeyes, without having its related "icon" in gnome-panel? -- Dan Kenigsberghttp://www.cs.technion.ac.il/~dankenICQ 162180901 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] OSS lint-type static checker?
> -Original Message- > From: Oleg Goldshmidt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 8:27 PM > To: Tal, Shachar > Subject: Re: [OT] OSS lint-type static checker? > > > "Tal, Shachar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > I'm talking about code that I gets compiled (for production) with MS > > compilers, on MS platforms. > > You didn't mention MS (apart from mentioning C#) in your > original posting. Mea culpa. > > Yes, gcc can run on windows, but it usually > > isn't worth the effort to compile once for debugging, and once for > > production. > > I *really* disagree - it is well worth the effort. Besides, wat's the > difference between running $lint and running gcc? Put > > gcc -c "$@" -o /dev/null > > in a script called lint, and there you go. You'll need a hook to VC++, > I suspect it is possible to create one. Of course, another p roblem > with VC++ is that it often does not compile perfectly legal C++ code. More often, the code that VC++ perfectly compiles is not perfect C++ (I won't even mention ANSI compliance). I'm not sure gcc will have a good signal-to-noise ratio when chewing MS's flavor of C++. Past experience have shown otherwise. > > -- > Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED] Shachar Tal Verint Systems This electronic message contains information from Verint Systems, which may be privileged and confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic message in error, please notify us by replying to this email. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: X Forwarding via SSH
-Original Message- From: Leonid Podolny [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [snip] > On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Arik Baratz wrote: > > > > > Can you plese post the result of: > > > > ssh -v -n -X [EMAIL PROTECTED] xlogo > > > -- Attached file included as plaintext by Listar -- > -- File: out.log > > OpenSSH_3.7.1p2, SSH protocols 1.5/2.0, OpenSSL 0.9.6k 30 Sep 2003 > debug1: Reading configuration data /etc/ssh/ssh_config [snip] > _X11TransSocketOpen: socket() failed for tcp Leonid, Can you please do ssh -X to the machine, and then: echo $DISPLAY will give you something along the lines of "localhost:10.0" Then take the number after the ':' (10 in this example) and add 6000 to it, and run telnet: telnet localhost 6010 Replace the 6010 with the number you got (if it's different than 10). Let us all know what that gives you - the exact error message. Can you also do iptables -L -v -n and mail the result? I'm assuming that the machine has iptables. The ipchains command is very similar. My current guess is that you have ipchains/iptables rules on computer "A" that prevent local users from connecting to port 6010 from localhost, but that needs to be confirmed. What's baffeling to me is that the error message mentions the socket() function rather than the connect() function as I would expect in the case that my assumption is correct. -- Arik ** This email and attachments have been scanned for potential proprietary or sensitive information leakage. PortAuthority(TM) Server Keeping Information Inside Vidius, Inc. www.vidius.com ** To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: X Forwarding via SSH
On Tue, Nov 18, 2003 at 12:32:56PM +0200, Arik Baratz wrote: > > -Original Message- > From: Leonid Podolny [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > [snip] > > > On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Arik Baratz wrote: > > > > > > > > Can you plese post the result of: > > > > > > ssh -v -n -X [EMAIL PROTECTED] xlogo > > > > > > -- Attached file included as plaintext by Listar -- > > -- File: out.log > > > > OpenSSH_3.7.1p2, SSH protocols 1.5/2.0, OpenSSL 0.9.6k 30 Sep 2003 > > debug1: Reading configuration data /etc/ssh/ssh_config > > [snip] > > > _X11TransSocketOpen: socket() failed for tcp > > Leonid, > > Can you please do ssh -X to the machine, and then: > > echo $DISPLAY > > will give you something along the lines of "localhost:10.0" > > Then take the number after the ':' (10 in this example) and add 6000 to it, and run > telnet: > > telnet localhost 6010 [I already took a look at this] telnet localhost 6010 indeed seems to open a tcp connection. Also note: the error is not: 'Error: Can't open display: localhost:10.0' > > Replace the 6010 with the number you got (if it's different than 10). Let us all > know what that gives you - the exact error message. > > Can you also do > > iptables -L -v -n > > and mail the result? I'm assuming that the machine has iptables. The ipchains > command is very similar. > > My current guess is that you have ipchains/iptables rules on computer > "A" that prevent local users from connecting to port 6010 from > localhost, but that needs to be confirmed. What's baffeling to me is > that the error message mentions the socket() function rather than the > connect() function as I would expect in the case that my assumption is > correct. -- Tzafrir Cohen +---+ http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir/ |vim is a mutt's best friend| mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] +---+ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: silly gnome-panel question
On Tue, Nov 18, 2003 at 11:54:31AM +0200, Dan Kenigsberg wrote: > I know it is totally uncool to admit using such a vulgar application, but I have > a question about it: How can I run a certain X app, let's say xeyes, without > having its related "icon" in gnome-panel? This seems like an issue of session management, not of panel. Maybe take a look at the sessions configuration. Or simply put it in your .xsessionrc -- Tzafrir Cohen +---+ http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir/ |vim is a mutt's best friend| mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] +---+ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] OSS lint-type static checker?
"Tal, Shachar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > From: Oleg Goldshmidt
> > Of course, another problem with VC++ is that it often does not
> > compile perfectly legal C++ code.
>
> More often, the code that VC++ perfectly compiles is not perfect C++
That's less of a problem in this context, isn't it? You don't care
much that VC++ compiles what should not compile - you are
double-checking with lint (of whatever flavour suits you). However, if
lint gives your code a clean bill of health but your production
compiler chokes on it, you are in trouble.
> I'm not sure gcc will have a good signal-to-noise ratio when chewing
> MS's flavor of C++.
This depends on whether you consider the warnings that g++ in "lint
mode" is likely to spit onto the screen "noise" or "signal". Since you
are looking for a lint, I assumed you were going to treat it as
"signal"... It's more or less the same "signal" as any lint will
produce ("same" <=> "has the same purpose").
--
Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Linux/UNIX/ISO VARARGS to MSVC++ ???
Hi,
I am trying to find a solution to converting this macro:
#define msg(flags, ...) do { if (MSG_TEST(flags)) x_msg((flags), __VA_ARGS__); } while
(false)
Or this one:
#define msg(flags, args...) do { if (MSG_TEST(flags)) x_msg((flags), args); } while
(false)
To something that MSVC++ will allow to compile, currently it appears that cannot. I
will be happy to see someone with a solution to this...
(BTW, this code is taken from the OpenVPN project, which I am trying to build a MFC
based GUI for, open sourced of course)
Thanks
Noam Rathaus
CTO
Beyond Security Ltd.
http://www.securiteam.com
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RE: [OT] OSS lint-type static checker?
> -Original Message-
> From: Oleg Goldshmidt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 1:22 PM
> To: Tal, Shachar
> Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
> Subject: Re: [OT] OSS lint-type static checker?
>
>
> "Tal, Shachar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > > From: Oleg Goldshmidt
>
> > > Of course, another problem with VC++ is that it often does not
> > > compile perfectly legal C++ code.
> >
> > More often, the code that VC++ perfectly compiles is not perfect C++
>
> That's less of a problem in this context, isn't it? You don't care
> much that VC++ compiles what should not compile - you are
> double-checking with lint (of whatever flavour suits you). However, if
> lint gives your code a clean bill of health but your production
> compiler chokes on it, you are in trouble.
My point was that there is VC++ code that is correct but will be barked at
by gcc/g++. This will be considered "noise".
I suspect that this noise is an additive constant, that can be taken into
account and greped out of the "lint" output, but the question is how big is
that constant.
> > I'm not sure gcc will have a good signal-to-noise ratio when chewing
> > MS's flavor of C++.
>
> This depends on whether you consider the warnings that g++ in "lint
> mode" is likely to spit onto the screen "noise" or "signal". Since you
> are looking for a lint, I assumed you were going to treat it as
> "signal"... It's more or less the same "signal" as any lint will
> produce ("same" <=> "has the same purpose").
See my comment above.
> --
> Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Shachar.
This electronic message contains information from Verint Systems, which may
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electronic message in error, please notify us by replying to this email.
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Re: Fw: What's wrong with this code?
"Tal, Shachar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > If I need access to code which I am not "privileged" for, I ask for > it, and bang, 15 seconds later I have access to it. No big > "fill-forms-in-three-copies-then-chase-disgruntled-IT-people" deal. This seems to me a contradiction to what you wrote earlier. To quote: "The company I work for currently does not allow engineers access to code they have no business reading in the first place. Of course, a malicious programmer can always social engineer his way into getting access to the code." > The point I try to drive is, you don't need good reasons to > compartmentalize. You need good reasons not to. I said nothing about "compartmentalization," whatever meaning you care to put into the word. I remarked on the passage quoted above, saying that reasons to do that were few and far between. > Well, most tools do exist (e.g. source control, automated testing, > UML code generator) for 99.9% per cent of the companies, who deal > mostly with standard software engineering. The other 0.1% may > require exotic tools (e.g. I have no idea how to test VMWare > without special tools). I am guessing wildly. It seems that your notion of "standard software engineering" differs from mine. I suspect you assign all the different things I did and all the things I am doing to 0.1% of "exotic" activities. Dealing with VMWare does not seem exotic at all to me... > > If you know how to reach a ratio of internal to customer code of more > > than 10:1 (apart from Excel macros), and produce decent customer code, > > would you consider sharing the insights? > > You seem to either be really amazed by what I said. People, am I the only > one in the forum who thinks that most code written is production > code? Don't confuse between production code and customer code. Internal code (including all the examples you gave, which are good but few) can be production. There is ample anecdotal evidence of surveys done at software development conferences of how many programmers work on customer deliverables. The numbers usually quoted are in the range of 95% code written for internal consumption. Last time I personally was present when this kind of question was asked was at Go-Linux in spring. A speaker asked a big hall full of people who developed software for a living (a good portion of the audience raised hands) and then who wrote code sold to customers (2 or 3 hands). In every company I worked for internal scaffolding was done. Prototypes, demos, tons of debugging code and tools specific to the domain, research tools, simulators for hardware and software, independent implementations of different solutions only one of which ultimately became production, customization and fixing of existing software and libraries, throw-away code to try things out, you name it. A situation where you have tools that generate ready production code for you, verify it, generate automatic builds, testing, and all the rest of the scaffolding, sounds really exotic to me. OK, this random-walked really far away from linux-il. -- Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: X Forwarding via SSH
Oleg Kobets wrote: And one more thing to add to Shahar's, does your ".Xauthority" has the correct permissions for your user ? If user (leonid in your case) cannot read and write the file, then you will get permission denied error. Oleg. [EMAIL PROTECTED] leonid $ ls -lh ./.Xauthority -rw---1 leonid users 100 Nov 18 13:48 ./.Xauthority [EMAIL PROTECTED] leonid $ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: X Forwarding via SSH
Arik Baratz wrote: Leonid, Can you please do ssh -X to the machine, and then: echo $DISPLAY will give you something along the lines of "localhost:10.0" [EMAIL PROTECTED] leonid $ echo $DISPLAY localhost:10.0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] leonid $ Then take the number after the ':' (10 in this example) and add 6000 to it, and run telnet: telnet localhost 6010 [EMAIL PROTECTED] leonid $ su - Password: lenik root # netstat -lntp Active Internet connections (only servers) Proto Recv-Q Send-Q Local Address Foreign Address State PID/Program name tcp0 0 0.0.0.0:40000.0.0.0:* LISTEN 1121/mlnet tcp0 0 0.0.0.0:40010.0.0.0:* LISTEN 1121/mlnet tcp0 0 0.0.0.0:40020.0.0.0:* LISTEN 1121/mlnet tcp0 0 0.0.0.0:68820.0.0.0:* LISTEN 1121/mlnet tcp0 0 0.0.0.0:40800.0.0.0:* LISTEN 1121/mlnet tcp0 0 0.0.0.0:47210.0.0.0:* LISTEN 1121/mlnet tcp0 0 0.0.0.0:22 0.0.0.0:* LISTEN 1282/sshd tcp0 0 0.0.0.0:46620.0.0.0:* LISTEN 1121/mlnet tcp0 0 0.0.0.0:25 0.0.0.0:* LISTEN 1241/ tcp0 0 127.0.0.1:6010 0.0.0.0:* LISTEN 31614/ Replace the 6010 with the number you got (if it's different than 10). Let us all know what that gives you - the exact error message. Can you also do iptables -L -v -n and mail the result? I'm assuming that the machine has iptables. The ipchains command is very similar. lenik root # iptables-save # Generated by iptables-save v1.2.8 on Tue Nov 18 13:50:24 2003 *filter :INPUT ACCEPT [7248:493703] :FORWARD ACCEPT [0:0] :OUTPUT ACCEPT [7557:528586] COMMIT # Completed on Tue Nov 18 13:50:24 2003 lenik root # iptables -L -v -n Chain INPUT (policy ACCEPT 7295 packets, 497K bytes) pkts bytes target prot opt in out source destination Chain FORWARD (policy ACCEPT 0 packets, 0 bytes) pkts bytes target prot opt in out source destination Chain OUTPUT (policy ACCEPT 7588 packets, 532K bytes) pkts bytes target prot opt in out source destination lenik root # My usual configuration of iptables allows all connections from localhost, but i removed all rules nevertheless for the testing, and no good. My current guess is that you have ipchains/iptables rules on computer "A" that prevent local users from connecting to port 6010 from localhost, but that needs to be confirmed. What's baffeling to me is that the error message mentions the socket() function rather than the connect() function as I would expect in the case that my assumption is correct. -- Arik ** This email and attachments have been scanned for potential proprietary or sensitive information leakage. PortAuthority(TM) Server Keeping Information Inside Vidius, Inc. www.vidius.com ** === To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MDK 9.2
ביום שני, 17 בנובמבר 2003, 23:28, נכתב על ידי Tzafrir Cohen: > On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 06:24:39PM +0200, Diego Iastrubni wrote: > > Tzafrir, > > no it's the SAME thing I got last month. the funniest thing is that they > > freezed cooker for 2-3 week for "bug hunting". nothing was committed to > > cooker in those weeks, and 1.5 week after 9.2 was released to club > > members, they put a 150MB update. Nice work :-0 > > Is there a kind soul here that wishes to contribute ISO images of > Mandrake 9.2 that will not harm unpatched LG drives? There are a few, I will look up, and report here (should we mirror them as well?) -- diego, Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: silly gnome-panel question
I see that my question wasn't clear. I'll restate it. When a window opens, gnome adds it automatically to its "task bar", where it shows as a rectangular button. I would like to avoid this for xeys. How can this be done? -- Dan Kenigsberghttp://www.cs.technion.ac.il/~dankenICQ 162180901 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Linux/UNIX/ISO VARARGS to MSVC++ ???
Google is your friend...
Fourth from the top, searching for : variable arguments "#define" "visual
C++"
http://www.experts-exchange.com/Programming/Programming_Languages/Cplusplus/
Q_20281300.html
HTH,
Shachar Tal
Verint Systems
> -Original Message-
> From: Noam Rathaus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 1:42 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Linux/UNIX/ISO VARARGS to MSVC++ ???
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I am trying to find a solution to converting this macro:
> #define msg(flags, ...) do { if (MSG_TEST(flags))
> x_msg((flags), __VA_ARGS__); } while (false)
> Or this one:
> #define msg(flags, args...) do { if (MSG_TEST(flags))
> x_msg((flags), args); } while (false)
>
> To something that MSVC++ will allow to compile, currently it
> appears that cannot. I will be happy to see someone with a
> solution to this...
>
> (BTW, this code is taken from the OpenVPN project, which I am
> trying to build a MFC based GUI for, open sourced of course)
>
> Thanks
> Noam Rathaus
> CTO
> Beyond Security Ltd.
> http://www.securiteam.com
>
>
> ==
> ==To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
> the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command
> echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
This electronic message contains information from Verint Systems, which may
be privileged and confidential. The information is intended to be for the
use of the individual(s) or entity named above. If you are not the intended
recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the
contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this
electronic message in error, please notify us by replying to this email.
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Re: MDK 9.2
On Tue, Nov 18, 2003 at 02:07:19PM +0200, Diego Iastrubni wrote: > ביום שני, 17 בנובמבר 2003, 23:28, נכתב על ידי Tzafrir Cohen: > > On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 06:24:39PM +0200, Diego Iastrubni wrote: > > > Tzafrir, > > > no it's the SAME thing I got last month. the funniest thing is that they > > > freezed cooker for 2-3 week for "bug hunting". nothing was committed to > > > cooker in those weeks, and 1.5 week after 9.2 was released to club > > > members, they put a 150MB update. Nice work :-0 > > > > Is there a kind soul here that wishes to contribute ISO images of > > Mandrake 9.2 that will not harm unpatched LG drives? > > There are a few, I will look up, and report here (should we mirror them as > well?) As well? instead? -- Tzafrir Cohen +---+ http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir/ |vim is a mutt's best friend| mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] +---+ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: X Forwarding via SSH
Shachar Shemesh wrote: Is "xauth" installed on the remote machine? [EMAIL PROTECTED] leonid $ which xauth /usr/X11R6/bin/xauth [EMAIL PROTECTED] leonid $ What does "echo $XAUTHORITY" give? There is no such variable. (?!) Is there a ~/.Xauthority file? [EMAIL PROTECTED] leonid $ ls ./.Xauthority -lh -rw---1 leonid users 100 Nov 18 14:23 ./.Xauthority [EMAIL PROTECTED] leonid $ try running "xauth list" - what is the output? [EMAIL PROTECTED] leonid $ xauth list lenik.lan:0 MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 51442241782b5025c493d953c9e75284 lenik/unix:10 MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 a44b010773d3ea6731c100fae04a338e [EMAIL PROTECTED] leonid $ "lenik" is the hostname of this computer. If you wish to obfuscate your IPs, at least indicate which is the server and which is the client IP you are using. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Fw: What's wrong with this code?
> -Original Message- > From: Oleg Goldshmidt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 2:01 PM > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' > Subject: Re: Fw: What's wrong with this code? > > > "Tal, Shachar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > If I need access to code which I am not "privileged" for, I ask for > > it, and bang, 15 seconds later I have access to it. No big > > "fill-forms-in-three-copies-then-chase-disgruntled-IT-people" deal. > > This seems to me a contradiction to what you wrote earlier. To quote: > > "The company I work for currently does not allow engineers access to > code they have no business reading in the first place. Of course, a > malicious programmer can always social engineer his way into getting > access to the code." How is that contradiction? Does not allow != VP R&D signs approval forms. When I need access to code X, I ask the person in charge of that for access, and he either gives it to me or not, based on the reasons I give him. If he doesn't, I either flog him with really long SATA cable or talk to his boss. > > > The point I try to drive is, you don't need good reasons to > > compartmentalize. You need good reasons not to. > > I said nothing about "compartmentalization," whatever meaning you care > to put into the word. I remarked on the passage quoted above, saying > that reasons to do that were few and far between. > > > Well, most tools do exist (e.g. source control, automated testing, > > UML code generator) for 99.9% per cent of the companies, who deal > > mostly with standard software engineering. The other 0.1% may > > require exotic tools (e.g. I have no idea how to test VMWare > > without special tools). > > I am guessing wildly. It seems that your notion of "standard software > engineering" differs from mine. I suspect you assign all the different > things I did and all the things I am doing to 0.1% of "exotic" > activities. Dealing with VMWare does not seem exotic at all to me... You misunderstood my example. I did not mean *using* VMWare, I meant *testing* VMWare (as the VMWare vendor). > > > If you know how to reach a ratio of internal to customer > code of more > > > than 10:1 (apart from Excel macros), and produce decent > customer code, > > > would you consider sharing the insights? > > > > You seem to either be really amazed by what I said. People, > am I the only > > one in the forum who thinks that most code written is production > > code? > > Don't confuse between production code and customer code. Internal code > (including all the examples you gave, which are good but few) can be > production. > > There is ample anecdotal evidence of surveys done at software > development conferences of how many programmers work on customer > deliverables. The numbers usually quoted are in the range of 95% code > written for internal consumption. Last time I personally was present > when this kind of question was asked was at Go-Linux in spring. A > speaker asked a big hall full of people who developed software for a > living (a good portion of the audience raised hands) and then who > wrote code sold to customers (2 or 3 hands). I find it extremely hard to believe. I' think that the business model of the employers of those present at that Go-Linux is skewed in a sick, sick way (assuming open-source is still a long way from being profitable for any but a select few). Every single person in the my development group is developing code that is sold to customers. Previous jobs had roughly the same percentile of "money-bringing" people (surely all had >90% money earners). > In every company I worked for internal scaffolding was > done. Prototypes, demos, tons of debugging code and tools specific to > the domain, research tools, simulators for hardware and software, > independent implementations of different solutions only one of which > ultimately became production, customization and fixing of existing > software and libraries, throw-away code to try things out, you name > it. > > A situation where you have tools that generate ready production code > for you, verify it, generate automatic builds, testing, and all the > rest of the scaffolding, sounds really exotic to me. To tersely comment on these long paragraphs: I never worked for companies who waste their resources writing prototypes and demos that never ended as production code. It's not that I select my jobs that way, it just never happened. I suspect such companies either have deep pockets to fund these activities, or they go under very fast. There are demos, there are prototypes, not every implementation is customer code, I'll grant you that. But, in a system with 7GB worth of code (the system I currently work on), with ~90% of it going to customers, there aren't ~70GB lines of internal code. > OK, this random-walked really far away from linux-il. Granted. Let's take this off the list. > -- > Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >
RE: Linux/UNIX/ISO VARARGS to MSVC++ ???
Hi,
Thank you for the answer, the problem with that solution or this that I found prior to
posting this message: http://www.codeproject.com/debug/location_trace.asp
Doesn't take into consideration the fact that MACROs are compile-time things,
consuming no CPU in run-time. So that solution becomes tricky as CPU time is consumed
while the original MACRO:
MSG_TEST(flags)
Consumes no CPU...
This is due to the fact that I cannot pre-evaluate the MSG_TEST(flags) part :(
I hope I made myself clear...
BTW:
#define MSG_TEST(flags) unsigned int)flags) & M_DEBUG_LEVEL) < x_debug_level ||
((flags) & M_FATAL))
Thanks
Noam Rathaus
CTO
Beyond Security Ltd.
http://www.securiteam.com
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tal, Shachar
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 14:09
To: 'Noam Rathaus'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Linux/UNIX/ISO VARARGS to MSVC++ ???
Google is your friend...
Fourth from the top, searching for : variable arguments "#define" "visual
C++"
http://www.experts-exchange.com/Programming/Programming_Languages/Cplusplus/
Q_20281300.html
HTH,
Shachar Tal
Verint Systems
> -Original Message-
> From: Noam Rathaus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 1:42 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Linux/UNIX/ISO VARARGS to MSVC++ ???
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I am trying to find a solution to converting this macro: #define
> msg(flags, ...) do { if (MSG_TEST(flags)) x_msg((flags), __VA_ARGS__);
> } while (false) Or this one:
> #define msg(flags, args...) do { if (MSG_TEST(flags))
> x_msg((flags), args); } while (false)
>
> To something that MSVC++ will allow to compile, currently it
> appears that cannot. I will be happy to see someone with a
> solution to this...
>
> (BTW, this code is taken from the OpenVPN project, which I am
> trying to build a MFC based GUI for, open sourced of course)
>
> Thanks
> Noam Rathaus
> CTO
> Beyond Security Ltd.
> http://www.securiteam.com
>
>
> ==
> ==To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the
> word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo
> unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
This electronic message contains information from Verint Systems, which may be
privileged and confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the
individual(s) or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware
that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information
is prohibited. If you have received this electronic message in error, please notify
us by replying to this email.
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Re: Mixed hebrew english table of contents and index in latex
This sounds suspiciously like a bug I found lately in LyX and emailed to Dekel Tsur IIRC. He will be working on it, but was a bit busy lately, so it could take a few weeks. I would email him your file, so that he can see another example of the problem. Mine was with Hebrew quotes. You could switch back to an older version of LyX (1.2.x), but then you'll have to comile from sources. Otherwise, there is a workaround that I can't quite remember. Arie On Thursday 13 November 2003 00:47, Micha Feigin wrote: > When I try to get the table of contents in latex and there are both > english and hebrew headers I get the english headers as hebrew letters > instead of english. > Same for index entries and if I recall correctly also for bibliography > items. > Is it possible to fix this? > I am currently using lyx for latex but I can enter the code manually if > there is a way to bypass this. > In addition to the above, When I try to get an english table of contents > in a hebrew document I just get errors. > > I am using the debian unstable ivritex package, in case I should switch. > > > = > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with > the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- It is absurd to seek to give an account of the matter to a man who cannot himself give an account of anything; for insofar as he is already like this, such a man is no better than a vegetable. -- Book IV of Aristotle's Metaphysics = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Fw: What's wrong with this code?
On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Gilad Ben-Yossef wrote: > On Monday 17 November 2003 08:41, Tal, Shachar wrote: > > > It makes it harder, as diffs are examined (by a single person or two > > people) before introducing code to the main branch. > > It's possible to obfuscate a backdoor, of course, but harder than > > when no one is watching. > > Or to put it shorty: > > > Bad closed source company: no one watches the code. > Good closed source comapny: one or two person watches the code. > Open Source: ~10k of the world best programmer watch the code. I get the impression that in practice the number of people who actually watch any given piece of open source code is significantly smaller, and, ufortunately, the number of people who use any given piece of code without ever taking a look is big - some of them reason that it must be good because of said ~10k. > > Take your pick.. :-) Best tool for the job. Some of them are open source, some are not. > Gilad > > = > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with > the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- Thanks, Uri http://translation.israel.net = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: xterm and hebrew
On Sunday 16 November 2003 11:13, Tzafrir Cohen wrote: > You can use mlterm, xiterm (xterm with Sun's i18n code), konsole or > gnome-terminal if you want bidi support. Konsole has bidi support? that's new to me. I always need to see my konsole Hebrew text backwards. = Teminal output = [EMAIL PROTECTED] afolger]$ locale LANG=he_IL.UTF-8 LC_CTYPE="he_IL.UTF-8" LC_NUMERIC=en_US.UTF-8 LC_TIME=en_US.UTF-8 LC_COLLATE="he_IL.UTF-8" LC_MONETARY=de_CH.UTF-8 LC_MESSAGES=en_US.UTF-8 LC_PAPER=de_CH.UTF-8 LC_NAME=en_US.UTF-8 LC_ADDRESS=de_CH.UTF-8 LC_TELEPHONE=de_CH.UTF-8 LC_MEASUREMENT=de_CH.UTF-8 LC_IDENTIFICATION=en_US.UTF-8 LC_ALL= [EMAIL PROTECTED] afolger]$ === end output Arie -- It is absurd to seek to give an account of the matter to a man who cannot himself give an account of anything; for insofar as he is already like this, such a man is no better than a vegetable. -- Book IV of Aristotle's Metaphysics = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Version control (was: Re: What's wrong with this code?)
I think this is exactly the price you "pay" when choosing these kind of tools, or more generally, doing in the "unix way": You just take some overhead explicitly onto *your* head but you are left with very flexible, hence powerfull, set of tools, which can be combined in numerous ways to do just about any task you choose (in principle). you do not have *such* flexability, usually, in closed source (graphic?) application. this power lures in the command line land. Its raw power, but roughness in usage, against fixed (closed) methods/ways to use, but the ease of that usage. Well, this trade off can be phrased in many ways, but the point mentioned in the mesasge I'm replying to is, IMHO, talks exactly on that trade off. Your preference might vary. boaz. Tal, Shachar wrote: If only the small integratable single-minded tools were *easily* integratable, I suspect Rational would have gone of business a few years ago. Shachar Tal Verint Systems -Original Message- From: Gilad Ben-Yossef [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 9:38 AM To: Guy Teverovsky; Linux-IL mailing list Cc: Tal, Shachar; 'Shachar Shemesh' Subject: Re: Version control (was: Re: What's wrong with this code?) On Tuesday 18 November 2003 04:22, Guy Teverovsky wrote: CVS is not: version control mechanism which is content aware and action driven. It lacks inline documentation features and code maintenance (bugs, features) tracking... Actually, CVS is a version control system and *that's it*. ClearCase is simply much more. It's like trying to compare Sendmail to Exchange. Exchange has a mail server inside but to call Exchange a mail server is ridiculous. (save me the jokes about the bugs in BOTH Exchange and sendmail, I've hearde them all. Hell, I invented a few of them.. :-) Have I mentioned the wink-ing ? Suppose you have an app that compiles 5 hours and another developer has already done another build and parts of the objects can be reused. As much as you might not like the product, it saves a hell LOT of time as the version control mechanism will bring you already compiled parts from the network. Now consider an 6-7 hour build on a high-end workstation... Well, I am starting to sound as a sales man, so I will stop here. Which is available seperatly in Open Source world, as ccache. Which brings me to my next related topic: Open Source software tends to create small flexible tools that do a single thing and do it well (e.g. CVS). You can combine several such tools to create a whole pacage that covers your needs (e.g. cvs + bugzilla + ccache). Closed Source software tends to build big packages that try to do everything. Some people prefer the flexability of multiple integratable single packets. Some people prefer the "full turnkey solution" of the closed source world. I'd leave my personal opionion of it for now :-) Gilad -- Gilad Ben-Yossef <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Codefidence. A name you can trust (tm) http://www.codefidence.com "Half of one of my eyes is already open. I'm going to make coffee now..." -- Kathi 16:08:04 This electronic message contains information from Verint Systems, which may be privileged and confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic message in error, please notify us by replying to this email. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Linux/UNIX/ISO VARARGS to MSVC++ ???
On Tuesday 18 November 2003 13:41, Noam Rathaus wrote: > (BTW, this code is taken from the OpenVPN project, which I am trying to build a MFC based GUI for, open sourced of course) Why bother with MFC? There are enough alternatives that build portably and would be easier to integrate with OpenVPN code. Just few examples from the top of my head: GTK+ QT WxWindows Fltk Note: QT on Windows would cost you (AFAIK it's per developer and not royalty based -- Just like MFC). It would be easier to maintain (you may want to have a Linux version of the product some day) and besides, MFC design is pretty outdated compared to some of these toolkits (no-names, no-flames :-) -- Oron Peled Voice/Fax: +972-4-8228492 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.actcom.co.il/~oron "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is." -- Yogi Berra = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
problems with partrition table
[Disclaimer: I know that not backing up your data before major update is a bad idea. Don't tell me that, please] I've decided to install Mandrake 9.2 on my home computer. Before, I had a physical HD with the following partitions: hda1 small linux (with minimal mdk9.2 installed on it) (~1.5 G) hda2 windows (only data, not bootable) (~2 G) linux with full RedHat7.3 installed on it linux (/home) and linux swap I've decided to get rid of the old RH and perform full install for Mdk. I had all the packages for the HD installation on the /home partition. The installation went OK, except for the fact that when installing LiLo, there was an error that said somethin about that LiLo could be installed only on the MBR. Since that was my intention, I continued. After the reboot, I saw that LiLo did not see any changes that were done during the installation, and when trying to boot into mdk, the kernel paniced (no init found). I've used Knoppix to see what's going on, and I discovered that fdisk -l issues warning "invalid flag 0x of partition table 5 will be corrected by (w)rite" and it sees only the windows partition and hda1 which was left empty for future use. Is there any chance that I can recover my data from /home partition? PS. During the installation, I did not make any changes to this partition Thanks - This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: xterm and hebrew
ביום שלישי 18 נובמבר 2003, 15:15, נכתב על ידי Arie Folger: > > You can use mlterm, xiterm (xterm with Sun's i18n code), konsole or > > gnome-terminal if you want bidi support. > > Konsole has bidi support? that's new to me. at least in 3.2 -- Oded ::.. The biggest lies: 11. I never inhaled. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Version control (was: Re: What's wrong with this code?)
On Tue, Nov 18, 2003, Tal, Shachar wrote about "RE: Version control (was: Re: What's wrong with this code?)": > If only the small integratable single-minded tools were *easily* > integratable, I suspect Rational would have gone of business a few years > ago. Why do they need to be "easily" integratable? What if it will take your sysadmin a whole day to do this integration? And what if you pay a services company (like IBM previously mentioned in this thread) to provide you with a turnkey solution? Nobody said ever said that every user should need to install and configure free software on his/her own. You might ask, "well, if it costs me money, why is the free-software solution any different from the propriatry one?" Well, there's a big difference. The free software solution won't charge you by user (haven't you ever seen developers shout across the open space "please log out of the version control software, I need a license!"?). The free software solution will still be available when you decide to switch to a different platform, CPU, or operating system. If a bug in the program seriously annoys you, you can hire someone to fix it for you (with commercial software, you'll need to beg the manufacturer to fix it or give you partial sources.) Note, however, that some special scenarios - like 100 people working full-time on a single huge code - are simply not useful in the free software world, which is why you don't see free software catering to those needs. Also, free software tends to cater to the needs of people who write it (namely, developers) rather than managers and so on. The managers sometimes don't like it. For example, in a previous workplace I was asked to switch from Bugzilla to a commercial bug tracking software (that was "integrated" with the version control system). It was horrible - while bugzilla allowed me a lot of freedom and a lot of power (to discuss bugs with others, to pass bugs between developers), the commercial one was very rigid and very manager-oriented (most of the decisions required manager rights to be done, it was impossible to write comments on bugs, etc.). For me (and some other developers), the commercial solution was simply WORSE than the free software one. But it wasn't us making the decision of which software to use - it was the managers, and to them the commercial software was more appealing. And if you think that free software is hard to integrate, wait till you here this: while Bugzilla was useful to us out-of-the-box, the commercial product had so many problems that we couldn't use it until one person worked on it for nearly a month (!) tweaking the myriad of scripts, parameters and other crap that came with it. So much for easy integration... And at no point did anyone stop to ask "why are we paying thousands of dollars for this crap?" -- Nadav Har'El|Tuesday, Nov 18 2003, 23 Heshvan 5764 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-790466, ICQ 13349191 |And now for some feedback: http://nadav.harel.org.il |EEE = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: problems with partrition table
On Tuesday 18 November 2003 17:17, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Is there any chance that I can recover my data from /home partition? > PS. During the installation, I did not make any changes to this partition I had similar problem (partition table mess) a long time ago (~8 years): * I had access to a different Linux box (different machine) * I wrote a small program on that machine: 1. Open the raw device (e.g: /dev/hda) 2. Read it block by block 3. Search in each block the "magic number" of the super-block. For ext2 (back than) it was in /usr/include/linux/ext2_fs.h: #define EXT2_SUPER_MAGIC0xEF53 4. Print the block number if the magic number was found in it. 5. Compiled + statically linked it (gcc -static). * I booted from floppy on the problematic machine: 1. Ran the program and wrote down few block numbers (each filesystem has many *identical* copies spread in its cylinder groups). 2. Ignored numbers which where not in regular intervals (false alarms) 3. Ran 'fsck -b ' 4. If all is good (it was in my case), than we can trust the superblock data (start and size of partition) 5. So we can safely use them to fix the partition table (back then I used Norton-Disk-Doctor under DOS to edit the partition table. I think today parted would give you better options -- but didn't check it). Hope it helps, -- Oron Peled Voice/Fax: +972-4-8228492 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.actcom.co.il/~oron "Normal people ... believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Engineers believe that if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features ... yet." -- Scott Adams = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Linux/UNIX/ISO VARARGS to MSVC++ ???
Hi, I am not interested in a discussion on whether to use MFC or not, I just wanted to know whether MSVC++ supports VARARGS. If I can't see any other way, I will go and try another GUI creation environment, though I must say, I haven't been impressed with any of them, especially QT, in the aspects of easy development (Kdevelop and QTDeveloper are not so good as far as I can see). Thanks Noam Rathaus CTO Beyond Security Ltd. http://www.securiteam.com -Original Message- From: Oron Peled [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 17:00 To: Noam Rathaus; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Linux/UNIX/ISO VARARGS to MSVC++ ??? On Tuesday 18 November 2003 13:41, Noam Rathaus wrote: > (BTW, this code is taken from the OpenVPN project, which I am trying > to build a MFC based GUI for, open sourced of course) Why bother with MFC? There are enough alternatives that build portably and would be easier to integrate with OpenVPN code. Just few examples from the top of my head: GTK+ QT WxWindows Fltk Note: QT on Windows would cost you (AFAIK it's per developer and not royalty based -- Just like MFC). It would be easier to maintain (you may want to have a Linux version of the product some day) and besides, MFC design is pretty outdated compared to some of these toolkits (no-names, no-flames :-) -- Oron Peled Voice/Fax: +972-4-8228492 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.actcom.co.il/~oron "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is." -- Yogi Berra To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Version control (was: Re: What's wrong with this code?)
I agree with you. Though, what Rational did that make their ClearCase product relatively successful, is the relative ease with which you can "script" their products. You can write triggers to be invoked at key steps in their work processes, or you can dispense with their work processes altogether and implement your own. Shachar Tal Verint Systems > -Original Message- > From: Boaz Rymland [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 4:40 PM > To: Linux-IL mailing list > Subject: Re: Version control (was: Re: What's wrong with this code?) > > > I think this is exactly the price you "pay" when choosing > these kind of > tools, or more generally, doing in the "unix way": > You just take some overhead explicitly onto *your* head but > you are left > with very flexible, hence powerfull, set of tools, which can > be combined > in numerous ways to do just about any task you choose (in principle). > you do not have *such* flexability, usually, in closed source > (graphic?) > application. this power lures in the command line land. > > Its raw power, but roughness in usage, against fixed (closed) > methods/ways to use, but the ease of that usage. Well, this trade off > can be phrased in many ways, but the point mentioned in the > mesasge I'm > replying to is, IMHO, talks exactly on that trade off. Your > preference > might vary. > > boaz. > > Tal, Shachar wrote: > > >If only the small integratable single-minded tools were *easily* > >integratable, I suspect Rational would have gone of business > a few years > >ago. > > > >Shachar Tal > >Verint Systems > > > > > > > > > > > >>-Original Message- > >>From: Gilad Ben-Yossef [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 9:38 AM > >>To: Guy Teverovsky; Linux-IL mailing list > >>Cc: Tal, Shachar; 'Shachar Shemesh' > >>Subject: Re: Version control (was: Re: What's wrong with this code?) > >> > >> > >>On Tuesday 18 November 2003 04:22, Guy Teverovsky wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>CVS is not: version control mechanism which is content > >>> > >>> > >>aware and action > >> > >> > >>>driven. It lacks inline documentation features and code maintenance > >>>(bugs, features) tracking... > >>> > >>> > >>Actually, CVS is a version control system and *that's it*. > >>ClearCase is > >>simply much more. It's like trying to compare Sendmail to Exchange. > >>Exchange has a mail server inside but to call Exchange a mail > >>server is > >>ridiculous. (save me the jokes about the bugs in BOTH Exchange and > >>sendmail, I've hearde them all. Hell, I invented a few of them.. :-) > >> > >> > >> > >>>Have I mentioned the wink-ing ? Suppose you have an app > >>> > >>> > >>that compiles 5 > >> > >> > >>>hours and another developer has already done another build > >>> > >>> > >>and parts of > >> > >> > >>>the objects can be reused. As much as you might not like > >>> > >>> > >>the product, it > >> > >> > >>>saves a hell LOT of time as the version control mechanism > >>> > >>> > >>will bring you > >> > >> > >>>already compiled parts from the network. > >>>Now consider an 6-7 hour build on a high-end workstation... > >>>Well, I am starting to sound as a sales man, so I will stop here. > >>> > >>> > >>Which is available seperatly in Open Source world, as ccache. > >>Which brings > >>me to my next related topic: > >> > >>Open Source software tends to create small flexible tools > >>that do a single > >>thing and do it well (e.g. CVS). You can combine several such > >>tools to > >>create a whole pacage that covers your needs (e.g. cvs + bugzilla + > >>ccache). > >> > >>Closed Source software tends to build big packages that try to do > >>everything. > >> > >>Some people prefer the flexability of multiple integratable > >>single packets. > >>Some people prefer the "full turnkey solution" of the closed > >>source world. > >> > >>I'd leave my personal opionion of it for now :-) > >> > >>Gilad > >> > >>-- > >>Gilad Ben-Yossef <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>Codefidence. A name you can trust (tm) > >>http://www.codefidence.com > >> > >>"Half of one of my eyes is already open. I'm going to make > >>coffee now..." > >>-- Kathi 16:08:04 > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >This electronic message contains information from Verint > Systems, which may > >be privileged and confidential. The information is intended > to be for the > >use of the individual(s) or entity named above. If you are > not the intended > >recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, > distribution or use of the > >contents of this information is prohibited. If you have > received this > >electronic message in error, please notify us by replying to > this email. > > > >= > >To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with > >the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command > >echo unsubscrib
RE: Version control (was: Re: What's wrong with this code?)
Easily doesn't mean a sysadmin for a day. Easily means not having to invest considerable man-power into making cvs and diff and branches and IDE integration and nightly building and whatnot work together. YMMV for the definition of considerable. I more than agree with you on the other points you raise. (As for shouting for a clearcase license, we had a shortage of CC licenses and a coworker who you could call a Loud Howard... funny story, really...) Shachar Tal Verint Systems > -Original Message- > From: Nadav Har'El [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 5:45 PM > To: Tal, Shachar > Cc: 'Gilad Ben-Yossef'; Guy Teverovsky; Linux-IL mailing > list; 'Shachar Shemesh' > Subject: Re: Version control (was: Re: What's wrong with this code?) > > > On Tue, Nov 18, 2003, Tal, Shachar wrote about "RE: Version > control (was: Re: What's wrong with this code?)": > > If only the small integratable single-minded tools were *easily* > > integratable, I suspect Rational would have gone of > business a few years > > ago. > > Why do they need to be "easily" integratable? What if it will > take your > sysadmin a whole day to do this integration? And what if you > pay a services > company (like IBM previously mentioned in this thread) to > provide you with > a turnkey solution? Nobody said ever said that every user > should need to > install and configure free software on his/her own. > > You might ask, "well, if it costs me money, why is the > free-software solution > any different from the propriatry one?" Well, there's a big > difference. > The free software solution won't charge you by user (haven't you ever > seen developers shout across the open space "please log out > of the version > control software, I need a license!"?). The free software > solution will > still be available when you decide to switch to a different > platform, CPU, > or operating system. If a bug in the program seriously annoys > you, you can > hire someone to fix it for you (with commercial software, > you'll need to > beg the manufacturer to fix it or give you partial sources.) > > Note, however, that some special scenarios - like 100 people working > full-time on a single huge code - are simply not useful in > the free software > world, which is why you don't see free software catering to > those needs. > Also, free software tends to cater to the needs of people who write it > (namely, developers) rather than managers and so on. The > managers sometimes > don't like it. For example, in a previous workplace I was > asked to switch > from Bugzilla to a commercial bug tracking software (that was > "integrated" > with the version control system). It was horrible - while > bugzilla allowed > me a lot of freedom and a lot of power (to discuss bugs with > others, to > pass bugs between developers), the commercial one was very > rigid and very > manager-oriented (most of the decisions required manager > rights to be done, > it was impossible to write comments on bugs, etc.). For me > (and some other > developers), the commercial solution was simply WORSE than > the free software > one. But it wasn't us making the decision of which software > to use - it > was the managers, and to them the commercial software was > more appealing. > > And if you think that free software is hard to integrate, > wait till you > here this: while Bugzilla was useful to us out-of-the-box, > the commercial > product had so many problems that we couldn't use it until one person > worked on it for nearly a month (!) tweaking the myriad of > scripts, parameters > and other crap that came with it. So much for easy > integration... And at > no point did anyone stop to ask "why are we paying thousands > of dollars > for this crap?" > > > -- > Nadav Har'El|Tuesday, Nov 18 > 2003, 23 Heshvan 5764 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > |- > Phone: +972-53-790466, ICQ 13349191 |And now for some feedback: > http://nadav.harel.org.il |EEE > This electronic message contains information from Verint Systems, which may be privileged and confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic message in error, please notify us by replying to this email. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Linux/UNIX/ISO VARARGS to MSVC++ ???
On Tuesday 18 November 2003 18:10, Noam Rathaus wrote: > I am not interested in a discussion on whether to use MFC or not Your application, your decision. -- Oron Peled Voice/Fax: +972-4-8228492 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.actcom.co.il/~oron There's nothing wrong with Windows 2000... ...that Linux can't fix = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Version control (was: Re: What's wrong with this code?)
"Tal, Shachar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Easily doesn't mean a sysadmin for a day. Easily means not having to > invest considerable man-power into making cvs and diff and branches > and IDE integration and nightly building and whatnot work > together. YMMV for the definition of considerable. Disclaimer: I have not used ClearCase myself. However, I have an impression that, for one reason or other every company that uses Clear Case also has a full time "software configuration" *team* whose purpose in life is making ClearCase work for the developers. This does not mean that ClearCase is bad, wrong, or anything. This just means that it probably fits someone's definition of "considerable man-power". At one company I worked for (about 15 developers) an internal effort was undertaken to write a system for hourly/nightly build of multiple versions of software kept in CVS, at least on two platforms. It took some effort (one person, I don't really remember how much time it took, maybe a week?), but it worked smoothly afterwards. Probably still works, years later - I don't know. Note also that the build system fit the particular development cycle and practices of the outfit - an out-of-the-box solution would not necessarily fit that. Now, consider this. Just a few days ago a friend, who is a "configuration manager" for a big and well-known unnamed company, complained informally that ClearCase (which has its own filesystem implemented by Rational as a binary only kernel module) does not co-exist well with that company's corporate standard kernel configuration. And they cannot do anything about it until the vendor (IBM in this case) fixes the problem. I surely hope the vendor will provide a solution in time (until the client's standard kernel changes). Again, this is not as much to criticize ClearCase as to point out that this is something a multibillion dollar company would surely deem "considerable". -- Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Version control (was: Re: What's wrong with this code?)
On Tue, 2003-11-18 at 18:58, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: > "Tal, Shachar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > Easily doesn't mean a sysadmin for a day. Easily means not having to > > invest considerable man-power into making cvs and diff and branches > > and IDE integration and nightly building and whatnot work > > together. YMMV for the definition of considerable. > > Disclaimer: I have not used ClearCase myself. However, I have an > impression that, for one reason or other every company that uses Clear > Case also has a full time "software configuration" *team* whose > purpose in life is making ClearCase work for the developers. This > does not mean that ClearCase is bad, wrong, or anything. This just > means that it probably fits someone's definition of "considerable > man-power". You can throw a team on ClearCase maintenance, but without first reading the books they will spend all their time poking around in vein. Most of my time spent on ClearCase involves going through the logs to see one more time that it does what it's supposed to do. Oopss... forgot. I do not do it anymore. I have a script that alerts me if something funny is going on. > At one company I worked for (about 15 developers) an internal effort > was undertaken to write a system for hourly/nightly build of multiple > versions of software kept in CVS, at least on two platforms. It took > some effort (one person, I don't really remember how much time it > took, maybe a week?), but it worked smoothly afterwards. Probably > still works, years later - I don't know. Note also that the build > system fit the particular development cycle and practices of the > outfit - an out-of-the-box solution would not necessarily fit that. It can be setup in ClearCase in 5 minutes. Create a bunch of dynamic views each with it's own brunch and script the hourly/nightly builds inside each view. Couple of one-liners will suffice. What is the cost of weeks work of a decent sysadmin ? > > Now, consider this. Just a few days ago a friend, who is a > "configuration manager" for a big and well-known unnamed company, > complained informally that ClearCase (which has its own filesystem > implemented by Rational as a binary only kernel module) does not > co-exist well with that company's corporate standard kernel > configuration. And they cannot do anything about it until the vendor > (IBM in this case) fixes the problem. I surely hope the vendor will > provide a solution in time (until the client's standard kernel > changes). Again, this is not as much to criticize ClearCase as to > point out that this is something a multibillion dollar company would > surely deem "considerable". -- = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Version control (was: Re: What's wrong with this code?)
Guy Teverovsky wrote: On Tue, 2003-11-18 at 18:58, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: "Tal, Shachar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Easily doesn't mean a sysadmin for a day. Easily means not having to invest considerable man-power into making cvs and diff and branches and IDE integration and nightly building and whatnot work together. YMMV for the definition of considerable. Disclaimer: I have not used ClearCase myself. However, I have an impression that, for one reason or other every company that uses Clear Case also has a full time "software configuration" *team* whose purpose in life is making ClearCase work for the developers. This does not mean that ClearCase is bad, wrong, or anything. This just means that it probably fits someone's definition of "considerable man-power". You can throw a team on ClearCase maintenance, but without first reading the books they will spend all their time poking around in vein. Most of my time spent on ClearCase involves going through the logs to see one more time that it does what it's supposed to do. Oopss... forgot. I do not do it anymore. I have a script that alerts me if something funny is going on. And how much did the time it took you to learn to do that, cost your company? At one company I worked for (about 15 developers) an internal effort was undertaken to write a system for hourly/nightly build of multiple versions of software kept in CVS, at least on two platforms. It took some effort (one person, I don't really remember how much time it took, maybe a week?), but it worked smoothly afterwards. Probably still works, years later - I don't know. Note also that the build system fit the particular development cycle and practices of the outfit - an out-of-the-box solution would not necessarily fit that. It can be setup in ClearCase in 5 minutes. Create a bunch of dynamic views each with it's own brunch and script the hourly/nightly builds inside each view. Couple of one-liners will suffice. What is the cost of weeks work of a decent sysadmin ? I will repeat my last sentence: How much did the time it took you to learn to do that, cost your company? The time it took my sysadmin at previous work to master ClearCase (and teach everybody else the ClearCase Way (tm) to do things) is roughly 2 months her time and ~1 day each person to learn that dreaded UCM. Now, consider this. Just a few days ago a friend, who is a "configuration manager" for a big and well-known unnamed company, complained informally that ClearCase (which has its own filesystem implemented by Rational as a binary only kernel module) does not co-exist well with that company's corporate standard kernel configuration. And they cannot do anything about it until the vendor (IBM in this case) fixes the problem. I surely hope the vendor will provide a solution in time (until the client's standard kernel changes). Again, this is not as much to criticize ClearCase as to point out that this is something a multibillion dollar company would surely deem "considerable". Shachar. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: strange URL behaviour
On Tuesday 18 November 2003 09:52, Henry Ficher wrote: no - that wasn't the problem either. > Are you using Squid as a proxy server? If so, restart the Squid service. > I've seen this behaviour when the Squid process maxes out. > > Cheers, > Henry -- Shlomo Solomon http://come.to/shlomo.solomon Sent by KMail (KDE 3.1) on LINUX Mandrake 9.1 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Version control
I tend to agree - in the real world there is no magic. The advertisements might promise so but when the worker (not the manager) gets to actually do the work - he will need the time to learn the "promising" new system. This investment time is what the ads try to deceive us that can be saved - but this is rarer than promised (as always in advertisements and he real world...) Of course, the beauty of some applications can be in how close do they get to this "dream design", to fullfiling this wish. Since I ain't familiar with CC, I cannot comment any further and I'll just say that my above comment is general and not specific to this case (the "clear" case...). Shachar Tal wrote: Guy Teverovsky wrote: On Tue, 2003-11-18 at 18:58, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: "Tal, Shachar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Easily doesn't mean a sysadmin for a day. Easily means not having to invest considerable man-power into making cvs and diff and branches and IDE integration and nightly building and whatnot work together. YMMV for the definition of considerable. Disclaimer: I have not used ClearCase myself. However, I have an impression that, for one reason or other every company that uses Clear Case also has a full time "software configuration" *team* whose purpose in life is making ClearCase work for the developers. This does not mean that ClearCase is bad, wrong, or anything. This just means that it probably fits someone's definition of "considerable man-power". You can throw a team on ClearCase maintenance, but without first reading the books they will spend all their time poking around in vein. Most of my time spent on ClearCase involves going through the logs to see one more time that it does what it's supposed to do. Oopss... forgot. I do not do it anymore. I have a script that alerts me if something funny is going on. And how much did the time it took you to learn to do that, cost your company? At one company I worked for (about 15 developers) an internal effort was undertaken to write a system for hourly/nightly build of multiple versions of software kept in CVS, at least on two platforms. It took some effort (one person, I don't really remember how much time it took, maybe a week?), but it worked smoothly afterwards. Probably still works, years later - I don't know. Note also that the build system fit the particular development cycle and practices of the outfit - an out-of-the-box solution would not necessarily fit that. It can be setup in ClearCase in 5 minutes. Create a bunch of dynamic views each with it's own brunch and script the hourly/nightly builds inside each view. Couple of one-liners will suffice. What is the cost of weeks work of a decent sysadmin ? I will repeat my last sentence: How much did the time it took you to learn to do that, cost your company? The time it took my sysadmin at previous work to master ClearCase (and teach everybody else the ClearCase Way (tm) to do things) is roughly 2 months her time and ~1 day each person to learn that dreaded UCM. Now, consider this. Just a few days ago a friend, who is a "configuration manager" for a big and well-known unnamed company, complained informally that ClearCase (which has its own filesystem implemented by Rational as a binary only kernel module) does not co-exist well with that company's corporate standard kernel configuration. And they cannot do anything about it until the vendor (IBM in this case) fixes the problem. I surely hope the vendor will provide a solution in time (until the client's standard kernel changes). Again, this is not as much to criticize ClearCase as to point out that this is something a multibillion dollar company would surely deem "considerable". Shachar. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: problems with partrition table
On Tuesday 18 November 2003 17:49, Oron Peled wrote: Sorry for the lame question, but what are magic numbers? Before working on the raw device, I though it would be a good idea to know what I'm doing. Googling for ["magic numbers" ext3 fdisk] leads to zillions mailing list archives, so if anyone can point me to a resource which has more or less comprehensive explanations, I'll be glad to hear. What I uderstand from Oron's answer is that some number marks the start and the end of a prartition, so by knowing in which blocks they appear, one can reconstruct the partition table. Am I correct? > I had similar problem (partition table mess) a long time ago (~8 years): > Ignored numbers which where not in regular intervals > (false alarms) what intervals can be considered as "regular" > 3. Ran 'fsck -b ' > 4. If all is good (it was in my case), than we can trust the > superblock data (start and size of partition) > 5. So we can safely use them to fix the partition table > (back then I used Norton-Disk-Doctor under DOS to edit > the partition table. I think today parted would give > you better options -- but didn't check it). > > Hope it helps, To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: problems with partrition table
b g wrote: On Tuesday 18 November 2003 17:49, Oron Peled wrote: Sorry for the lame question, but what are magic numbers? Before working on the raw device, I though it would be a good idea to know what I'm doing. Googling for ["magic numbers" ext3 fdisk] leads to zillions mailing list archives, so if anyone can point me to a resource which has more or less comprehensive explanations, I'll be glad to hear. What I uderstand from Oron's answer is that some number marks the start and the end of a prartition, so by knowing in which blocks they appear, one can reconstruct the partition table. Am I correct? Magic numbers are used to identify the type of filesystem the super block is contained. All EXE files in DOS and derivatives begin with "MZ" (Mark Z-something was a leader programmer for MS back then), etc. EXT3's super magic is 0xEF53 (see include/linux/ext3_fs.h). I had similar problem (partition table mess) a long time ago (~8 years): Ignored numbers which where not in regular intervals (false alarms) what intervals can be considered as "regular" AFAIK, those regular intervals should be N*2^M, where M is a natural number ~ 13, and N is a small natural number. ext2's interval was very early hardcoded as 8192, I'm not sure how it's done nowadays. If you see 4 super block candidates whose block numbers form an algebraic series, 99.9% that's the right block. You can verify against the rest of the blocks 3. Ran 'fsck -b ' 4. If all is good (it was in my case), than we can trust the superblock data (start and size of partition) 5. So we can safely use them to fix the partition table (back then I used Norton-Disk-Doctor under DOS to edit the partition table. I think today parted would give you better options -- but didn't check it). Hope it helps, === To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Shachar. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: problems with partrition table
On Tue, Nov 18, 2003 at 10:28:36PM +0200, b g wrote: > On Tuesday 18 November 2003 17:49, Oron Peled wrote: > Sorry for the lame question, but what are magic numbers? Before working on the > raw device, I though it would be a good idea to know what I'm doing. Googling > for ["magic numbers" ext3 fdisk] leads to zillions mailing list archives, so > if anyone can point me to a resource which has more or less comprehensive > explanations, I'll be glad to hear. > What I uderstand from Oron's answer is that some number marks the start and > the end of a prartition, so by knowing in which blocks they appear, one can > reconstruct the partition table. Am I correct? Yes, but it's already written for you, and I think is in knoppix - what you want is called gpart. Note, that if you know the exact places where partitions started and ended (or their size), you can simply create them (with knoppix) and try to mount -r and see if you succeed. One more thing - if you do have access to another disk, and if /home is indeed important for you, I suggest you start by backing up the entire disk (mount a big partition of the other disk on /big and do dd if=/dev/hda of=/big/hdabck bs=1024m). In any case, Don't Panic (TM). There are very small chances that your data was actually deleted. If you are careful, you have very good chances to see it again. -- Didi > > I had similar problem (partition table mess) a long time ago (~8 years): > > > Ignored numbers which where not in regular intervals > > (false alarms) > > what intervals can be considered as "regular" > > > 3. Ran 'fsck -b ' > > 4. If all is good (it was in my case), than we can trust the > > superblock data (start and size of partition) > > 5. So we can safely use them to fix the partition table > > (back then I used Norton-Disk-Doctor under DOS to edit > > the partition table. I think today parted would give > > you better options -- but didn't check it). > > > > Hope it helps, > > > To unsubscribe, send > mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with > the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
