Re: Kword not ready for [Hebrew] prime time yet
On Friday 22 November 2002 08:40, Lars Knoll wrote: > KDE would really benefit from some developers speaking arabic > and/or hebrew. I'm trying to ensure things are working for right to left > languages, but I've got enough to do to ensure Qt and khtml/konqueror is > working as it should. Well, to your credit, I must say that that component of kde works perfectly (although I did post a bug report a while ago, #47528, to whilch I never got a response. Other times I filed a bug report I got an answer within a few weeks). Long live konqueror! (also check out my bug report #50714, please) Cheers to Lars and to the kde team, Arie -- It is absurd to seek to give an account of the matter to a man who cannot himself give an account of anything; for insofar as he is already like this, such a man is no better than a vegetable. -- Book IV of Aristotle's Metaphysics = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Kword not ready for [Hebrew] prime time yet
> On Thursday 21 November 2002 03:32, you wrote: > Thanks. I posted the above partly because I'd like these fixed. Although I > am still upset about the not yet perfect displaying of Hebrew pages with > footnotes. I'll wait for kde 3.1 and see (man, that's gonna be some > download. It's the first time I'll have to do it over 5k line :-(.) No software is perfect. And since the koffice team doesn't have any hebrew or arabic speaking developer (AFAIK), it's a bit hard for them to fix all the issues. KDE would really benefit from some developers speaking arabic and/or hebrew. I'm trying to ensure things are working for right to left languages, but I've got enough to do to ensure Qt and khtml/konqueror is working as it should. Cheers, Lars = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Kword not ready for [Hebrew] prime time yet
On Thu, 21 Nov 2002, Martin Polley wrote: > > -Original Message- > > From: Arie Folger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 4:42 PM > > To: MartinPolley; Ely Levy; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: Kword not ready for [Hebrew] prime time yet > > > > > > On Thursday 21 November 2002 01:50, Martin Polley wrote: > > > It does #2 and #5 as well. Just enabling font embedding is not > > > enough--you have to make the Hebrew fonts available to GhostScript. > > > > Why not, ghostscript has no problem printing Hebrew coming from > > konqueror or > > lyx, after all? > > > > It depends on the font. If it is a font that is already available to X > apps AND to gs, no problem. Actually, X and gs use two different sets of fonts. > > If it is available to X and NOT to gs, then you need to make it > available to gs. if it is embedded in the document, it is available to gs (while printing the document) Not embedding the fonts saves you some time on printing, but also makes the produced postscript unportable: in your personal computer there is just one copy of gs that will interpert it, including printing and conversions. However, you may want to use the produced postscript elsewhere (a different postscript printer, create a postscript document, etc.). In This case, your document is problematic. -- Tzafrir Cohen mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Kword not ready for [Hebrew] prime time yet
Ahh, I remember the time I surfed BBS's with 2400bps modem. When I managed to d/l a 100kb text file I danced with joy :-))) Today, if I don't get at least 50kbs I get pissed off. Go figure :) - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Linux-IL mailing list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "Lars Knoll" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Ely Levy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Martin Polley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 10:32 PM Subject: Re: Kword not ready for [Hebrew] prime time yet > Quoting Arie Folger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > I'll wait for kde 3.1 and see (man, that's gonna be some download. > > It's the first time I'll have to do it over 5k line :-(.) > > I obviously meant a 56k line. Nobody but museum curators use 5k anymore, if it > ever existed (1200bps, anyone ;-)) > > Arie > > = > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with > the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Kword not ready for [Hebrew] prime time yet
Quoting Arie Folger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > I'll wait for kde 3.1 and see (man, that's gonna be some download. > It's the first time I'll have to do it over 5k line :-(.) I obviously meant a 56k line. Nobody but museum curators use 5k anymore, if it ever existed (1200bps, anyone ;-)) Arie = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Kword not ready for [Hebrew] prime time yet
On Thursday 21 November 2002 03:32, you wrote: > > Should I forward this to some kde developer? (Lars ... what's his email?) > He's actually on this list ;-) > Comments to some of your points (I have no idea about the others): > > 1* can produce ps > 2* ps has embedded fonts > > Both should work. I wonder why not, as you said font embedding works from > konqueror. kword uses exactly the same postscript driver (the one from Qt). > The only reason I could see is that you used a bitmapped font in kword > (which can't get embedded into the generated PS) Wel, that isn't the reason. First, when I click file->print and then click on the button "system options", the dialog that appears has the optino "embed fonts" already ticked (it's a tick box). Secondly, I was using Arial, a MS ttf wenfont, which does the job perfectly on konqueror, and kmail (which, IIRC, uses kedit, so you got one more app that works fine with Hebrew printing). The only thing I can think of is that kword doesn't like ttf. > 5* can produce pdf > 6* pdf that embeds fonts > > This is done by ghostscript. If your postscript output gets embedded fonts, > you should be able to get the same for the PDF. Sounds very reasonable. I guessed this much, but didn't test it (kind of hard when ps printing is broken :-(.) > * when exporting to tex there is no way to specify an encoding other than > latin1 or utf-8 > * html does not contain dir=rtl tags, an issue when a paragraph starts with > certain sequences, such as "1.", which should be displayed as ".1", for > rudimentary numbered lists, also, otherwise bullets are on the wrong side > of the page > > These two sound like they are simple to fix, don't ask me about the other > ones. > > Anyway, if you'd like these to be fixed, the best is to either file a > report at bugs.kde.org, or maybe contact david faure (faure at kde org), as > he is the maintainer of kword. Thanks. I posted the above partly because I'd like these fixed. Although I am still upset about the not yet perfect displaying of Hebrew pages with footnotes. I'll wait for kde 3.1 and see (man, that's gonna be some download. It's the first time I'll have to do it over 5k line :-(.) Arie = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Kword not ready for [Hebrew] prime time yet
On Thursday 21 November 2002 09:53, Martin Polley wrote: > It depends on the font. If it is a font that is already available to X > apps AND to gs, no problem. > > If it is available to X and NOT to gs, then you need to make it > available to gs. > Arie Folger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Why not, ghostscript has no problem printing Hebrew coming from > > konqueror or lyx, after all? Hah, but in both cases we are talking about the same font, monotype Arial, which does contain the Hebrew codepage. You, OTOH, used times, which is not the same thing as times new roman. The former has only latin1 and may be latin2, while the latter is a unicode font covering much of the entire range (but I don't think it covers CJK codepages). So I am still puzzled. Arie -- It is absurd to seek to give an account of the matter to a man who cannot himself give an account of anything; for insofar as he is already like this, such a man is no better than a vegetable. -- Book IV of Aristotle's Metaphysics = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Kword not ready for [Hebrew] prime time yet
It depends on the font. If it is a font that is already available to X apps AND to gs, no problem. If it is available to X and NOT to gs, then you need to make it available to gs. (I tried printing a Hebrew Word doc that I opened in KWord (font--Times), and all the Hebrew came out as boxes.) The main point is, you CAN embed the fonts. Regards, Martin Polley Technical Communicator http://www.surf-com.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: (+972) (4) 9095-732 Mobile: (053) 864-280 ICQ 15617901 Hlade's Law: If you have a difficult task, give it to a lazy person. They will find an easier way to do it. -Original Message- From: Arie Folger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 4:42 PM To: Martin Polley; Ely Levy; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Kword not ready for [Hebrew] prime time yet On Thursday 21 November 2002 01:50, Martin Polley wrote: > It does #2 and #5 as well. Just enabling font embedding is not > enough--you have to make the Hebrew fonts available to GhostScript. Why not, ghostscript has no problem printing Hebrew coming from konqueror or lyx, after all? Arie To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Kword not ready for [Hebrew] prime time yet
On Thursday 21 November 2002 01:50, Martin Polley wrote: > It does #2 and #5 as well. Just enabling font embedding is not > enough--you have to make the Hebrew fonts available to GhostScript. Why not, ghostscript has no problem printing Hebrew coming from konqueror or lyx, after all? Arie = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Kword not ready for [Hebrew] prime time yet
It does #2 and #5 as well. Just enabling font embedding is not enough--you have to make the Hebrew fonts available to GhostScript. Here is the relevant stuff from one of my previous posts: 1. Look at the Fonts-HOWTO. Note that the instructions in the Fonts-HOWTO (specifically,this page-- http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Font-HOWTO/x346.html) are for an outdated version of ttf2pt1. The line in the Perl script that reads: open ( R, "sh -c \"ttf2pt1 -A $fontname - 2>/dev/null\" |" ); Should be changed to: open ( R, "sh -c \"ttf2pt1 -GAf $fontname - \" |" ); If it doesn't work, make sure that you have ttf2pt1. 2. In my installation (gs 7.05.5 on Gentoo 1.2), the GhostScript Fontmap file is not in the GhostScript search path. (The last few lines of output from gs -h tell you what the search path is.) I moved Fontmap to /usr/share/ghostscript/fonts (which IS in the search path). Now when I do gs prfont.ps, and then /ArialMT DoFont (at the GS prompt), it shows me the contents of arial.ttf. So far, so good. 3. Enable font embedding in the KWord print dialog (actually, you have to click the Options button and enable it in the Options dialog). HTH, Martin Polley Technical Communicator http://www.surf-com.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: (+972) (4) 9095-732 Mobile: (053) 864-280 ICQ 15617901 Hlade's Law: If you have a difficult task, give it to a lazy person. They will find an easier way to do it. -Original Message- From: Ely Levy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 11:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Kword not ready for [Hebrew] prime time yet I didn't have any luck printing from kde either even when I checked the add fonts into ps thing, but then again mozilla can't print hebrew either. that's too sad Ely Levy System group Hebrew University Jerusalem Israel On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, Matitiahu Allouche wrote: > Herouth wrote: > > >Anyways, standard-compliant HTML should NOT use DIR=RTL tags. This is > >a stylesheet issue. It should have a CLASS="rightToLeft" tag, or > >something > like > >that, and have a stylesheet containing "direction: rtl" for that > >class. Alternatively it should have a STYLE="direction: rtl" > >attribute. > > I beg to differ.DIR=RTL (by the way, it is an attribute, not a tag) is > defined in HTML 4, so anyone using it *is* standard-compliant.You may > prefer to separate presentation specifications in stylesheets, but then: > a) It is debatable whether direction is a presentation attribute or > qualifies the essence of the text. > b) If your objective is cleaner design and maintenance, writing STYLE="direction: rtl" within the HTML code is no better than writing DIR=RTL.Or so it seems > to me. > > Shalom (Regards),Mati > Bidi Architect > Globalization Center Of Competency - Bidirectional Scripts > IBM Israel > > > = > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the > word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo > unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Kword not ready for [Hebrew] prime time yet
On Wed, Nov 20, 2002, Matitiahu Allouche wrote about "Re: Kword not ready for [Hebrew]
prime time yet":
> Herouth wrote:
>
> >Anyways, standard-compliant HTML should NOT use DIR=RTL tags. This is a
> >stylesheet issue. It should have a CLASS="rightToLeft" tag, or something
> like
> >that, and have a stylesheet containing "direction: rtl" for that class.
> >Alternatively it should have a STYLE="direction: rtl" attribute.
>
> I beg to differ. DIR=RTL (by the way, it is an attribute, not a tag) is
> defined in HTML 4, so anyone using it *is* standard-compliant. You may
I agree, though I'm by no means a standards scholar.
I usually use the same stylesheet for both Hebrew and English, with several
options changed according to whether or not the BODY tag carries the
DIR=RTL attribute or not (in other words, my English documents have
, my Hebrew documents have .
Incidentally, my Hebrew documents also have
and
For example, to have a different background for Hebrew and English documents,
I use something like this in my homepage's stylesheet:
BODY {
background: url("bg-120.GIF") repeat-y left;
}
BODY[dir=rtl] {
background: url("bg-120-rtl.GIF") repeat-y right;
}
And I can make some classes look slightly different in Hebrew, for
example:
.funkymenu {
float:left;
margin-left: -135px;
margin-right: 4px;
...
}
BODY[dir=rtl] > .funkymenu {
float:right;
margin-right: -135px;
margin-left:4px
}
--
Nadav Har'El|Thursday, Nov 21 2002, 16 Kislev 5763
[EMAIL PROTECTED] |-
Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |It's fortunate I have bad luck - without
http://nadav.harel.org.il |it I would have no luck at all!
=
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the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command
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Re: Kword not ready for [Hebrew] prime time yet
I didn't have any luck printing from kde either even when I checked the add fonts into ps thing, but then again mozilla can't print hebrew either. that's too sad Ely Levy System group Hebrew University Jerusalem Israel On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, Matitiahu Allouche wrote: > Herouth wrote: > > >Anyways, standard-compliant HTML should NOT use DIR=RTL tags. This is a > >stylesheet issue. It should have a CLASS="rightToLeft" tag, or something > like > >that, and have a stylesheet containing "direction: rtl" for that class. > >Alternatively it should have a STYLE="direction: rtl" attribute. > > I beg to differ.DIR=RTL (by the way, it is an attribute, not a tag) is > defined in HTML 4, so anyone using it *is* standard-compliant.You may > prefer to separate presentation specifications in stylesheets, but then: > a) It is debatable whether direction is a presentation attribute or > qualifies the essence of the text. > b) If your objective is cleaner design and maintenance, writing STYLE="direction: >rtl" within the HTML code is no better than writing DIR=RTL.Or so it seems > to me. > > Shalom (Regards),Mati > Bidi Architect > Globalization Center Of Competency - Bidirectional Scripts > IBM Israel > > > = > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with > the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Kword not ready for [Hebrew] prime time yet
Herouth wrote: >Anyways, standard-compliant HTML should NOT use DIR=RTL tags. This is a >stylesheet issue. It should have a CLASS="rightToLeft" tag, or something like >that, and have a stylesheet containing "direction: rtl" for that class. >Alternatively it should have a STYLE="direction: rtl" attribute. I beg to differ. DIR=RTL (by the way, it is an attribute, not a tag) is defined in HTML 4, so anyone using it *is* standard-compliant. You may prefer to separate presentation specifications in stylesheets, but then: a) It is debatable whether direction is a presentation attribute or qualifies the essence of the text. b) If your objective is cleaner design and maintenance, writing STYLE="direction: rtl" within the HTML code is no better than writing DIR=RTL. Or so it seems to me. Shalom (Regards), Mati Bidi Architect Globalization Center Of Competency - Bidirectional Scripts IBM Israel = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Kword not ready for [Hebrew] prime time yet
On Wednesday 20 November 2002 12:26, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Quoting Arie Folger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > * html does not contain dir=rtl tags, an issue when a paragraph starts > > with certain sequences, such as "1.", which should be displayed as ".1", > > for rudimentary numbered lists, also, otherwise bullets are on the wrong > > side of the page > > I'm surprised you expect this, since KWord doesn't actually have paragraph > direction. There is no facility for it. It simply guesses the direction > from the first character in the paragraph. This is a very bad behavior for > a word processor which claims to be "BiDi". Well, are you using 1.2? managed to change paragraph direction using shift-ctrl. I forgot to mention why this is so upsetting: Kword uses align=right, instead, which is truly hideous. > Anyways, standard-compliant HTML should NOT use DIR=RTL tags. This is a > stylesheet issue. It should have a CLASS="rightToLeft" tag, or something > like that, and have a stylesheet containing "direction: rtl" for that > class. Alternatively it should have a STYLE="direction: rtl" attribute. > > Herouth -- It is absurd to seek to give an account of the matter to a man who cannot himself give an account of anything; for insofar as he is already like this, such a man is no better than a vegetable. -- Book IV of Aristotle's Metaphysics = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Kword not ready for [Hebrew] prime time yet
Quoting Arie Folger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > * html does not contain dir=rtl tags, an issue when a paragraph starts with > certain sequences, such as "1.", which should be displayed as ".1", for > rudimentary numbered lists, also, otherwise bullets are on the wrong side of > the page I'm surprised you expect this, since KWord doesn't actually have paragraph direction. There is no facility for it. It simply guesses the direction from the first character in the paragraph. This is a very bad behavior for a word processor which claims to be "BiDi". I've been mightily disapponted with KWord. Especially since it managed to crash my X server mightily when I clicked on the font menu. I hate WYSIWYG font menus. I hate them more when they are slow and crash X. (Disclaimer: still using Mandrake 8.2 here - if there were any X updates, I haven't checked them (lack of free time)) Anyways, standard-compliant HTML should NOT use DIR=RTL tags. This is a stylesheet issue. It should have a CLASS="rightToLeft" tag, or something like that, and have a stylesheet containing "direction: rtl" for that class. Alternatively it should have a STYLE="direction: rtl" attribute. Herouth = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
