arthur ness HUP edition
hi all, i just found this in: http://www.zvab.com/SESSz33821173311083653933/gr2/en/index.html? Ness, Arthur J. (ed.): The Lute Music of Francesco Canova da Milano (1497-1543) Volumes I and II, Cambridge Harvard University Press 1970 Harvard Publications in Music 3 and 4. Folio. original wraps. xxxii, 473 pp. Very god condition. wraps worn. Bestellnr. 004779 [SW: lute music, early music, scores] Found in the catalogue: Scores (312 further titles) Vendor: J J Lubrano Music Antiquarians [US-11743 Lloyd Harbor NY] Price: EUR 85.00 Shipping charges: not specified Dr. Wolfgang Wiehe Zentrales Analytisches Labor BTU-Cottbus []\ (_) www.zal.tu-cottbus.de
Re: Astrologos
Addendum, Eugene, and Daniel, I've just seen Daniel's original message in this thread. It changes nothing in my answer to Eugene. Astrologos says they are copyright cleared or public domain. Translated this means that they have bought copys of out of print books and made facsimiles of them, and in all likelyhood with no payment for the rights (cleared means they have checked to see if they are going to get into trouble). But they obviously have made an investment in this - equipment and skills to make a real book out of the copy. Referring to my own comments, if I were to print my facsimile it would be rather ugly. The curl of the pages showing, as I couldn't destroy a book I had to return to the library. Sorry to go on, but I remember a thread where Roman and others were discussing rights to reproduction. If I can summarize that, there was the question as to the rights of the library as well as the researcher. So let us make a distinction as to library files. A manuscript in the library's archives is one thing - one has to go there to view it, and get the library's permission to copy it. A book on the open shelves is another, that is by definition public. Copying that book on the shelves for personal use is merely a matter of avoiding renewing it over and over. But doing so for commercial purposes becomes another question. A parallel, I have bought CDs of my harp favorites, and I always burn an extra copy (for my car, I keep the original in the house). It is single user, I can't be both in the car and the house at the same time (at least not until I come to some higher plane). Daniel, if what you want is the content, and that content is available in on the shelves of a library then I see no legal, or moral, reason not to borrow it and copy it yourself (if it is generally available). But if you want something for the bookshelf then go to Astrologos, or some such, as that seems to be what they are offering. It is a fine line, Eugene has correctly implied that a cottage industry of making facsimiles of rare texts could be impacted by generalized copying. And I think it was Roman who correctly spoke of the effort required to find the original source material. Both should be supported by paying for their work, but when it is readily available and you are willing to put up with the poor quality of home copying, then I wouldn't pay the price. Best, Jon - Original Message - From: Daniel Shoskes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LUTE-LIST [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 2:26 PM Subject: Astrologos I have been interested in getting a copy of Ness' Lute Music of Milano. The only bookseller that seems to have it is Astrogos, which makes (expensive) made to order reproductions (http://www.astrologos.org/). They also offer a version of the Jane Pickering lute book. Anyone deal with this company before? They have a no return policy, so a lousy product will make for expensive kitty litter.
Re: Astrologos
This topic has been covered previously on the list (exhaustively!!). I would suggest Jon look up the archives. Before this starts another mamoth thread (We know what happened last time!) with best intentions Anthony Eugene, I think we actually agree, I may have mis-stated my comment. In this case the oringinal publisher (1901) is long out of business, the publisher of the reprint (1971) has been bought out - and the new owner of the copyright has no interest in reprinting (I contacted them). The publisher of the facsimile (Lyon Healy Harps) seems to have done the same thing I did - that is to copy an existing book (although they didn't respond when I emailed them for info). This is not a rare and ancient book, the 1971 reprint is available in many libraries (my Monmouth County Library was able to get it from one two counties away). The question of public domain, in this case, I think is moot. I'm sure the original copyright still stands, and is in the hands of the publisher of the reprint. The Lyon Healy facsimiles may be illegal, for all I know - or they may be a direct agreement to not seek redress. The publisher of the reprint had no direct knowledge of them, as they didn't suggest them as a source - they only suggested the used book market. I believe that there is a difference under US law between a facsimile of an original (even if in public domain) and a copying of the text. The first would purport to be original, and the second merely a new version. But that is up to the legal scholars. In my case there was no source to gain the text, other than repeatedly renewing it from the library, except by paying for similar copies made by Lyon Healy (who don't run a publishing business, they make harps). And to the best of my knowledge they do the music book publishing on the side as a service to their main business. At least I think so, and I did write them. So I was speaking of a very specific circumstance, and agree with you as to the small publisher with copyrightable material. I would have been quite happy to pay a reasonable price for someone else's work in copying that book, or even an exhorbitant price if the book were available only by going to Ulan Bator to copy the original. But in this case the alternate vendor didn't have the copyright either. Best, Jon I don't entirely agree with this last statement. What happens if you are a small publisher of copyrightable material and have no intent to monopolize, but just want to make a living while providing something interesting to as wide an audience as possible? If your copyrighted material is wantonly, widely copied and your investment in production fails miserably, will you undertake such a venture again? I wouldn't. One to a few of the selfish win in such a case while many lose. In any event, this isn't entirely relevant, because as I understand things, facsimiles of public domain material are not protected by copyright in the US. Copying new introductory text, new cover art, lists for interpretation of errata, etc. (which would be protected) would constitute theft and be understandably illegal. Best, Eugene __ maltaNET broadBAND Internet starting from Lm 10.39. Check out http://www.maltanet.net
Astro Logos
Dear Arthur, Interesting what you say about Francesco and the viola da mano. I wonder how often he is mentioned in connection with that instrument. Perhaps it is no coincidence that an anagram of Francesco Canova da Milano plays lute. is Lutes? Francesco can play viola da mano. Best wishes, Stewart. - Original Message - From: Arthur Ness (boston) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LUTE NET [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 11:42 PM Subject: Re: Astro Logos Yes, AstroLogos is simply re-selling the UMI product. UMI (now ProQuest) in Ann Arbor is the only firm authorized by the copyright owners to reproduce the HUP edition oof FdaM's works. UMI's price $157, AstroLogos's price $190. Even at $157price it is less expensive than gathering together all of the facsimiles with Francesco's music. It comes in two volumes, printed on both sides of the page in a Perfect Binding (each sheet is glued to the spin, but with a rubbery glue that resists drying out (as cheap paperback do). The older edition is still quite complete, since only 4 1/2 new pieces have surfaced, and 4 or 5 will be removed in the revised edition because they are not by FdaM. Just a few months ago I discovered, and received a copy with the assistance of Kenneth Bé and Candace Magner, a 5-voice motet attributed to Francesco da Milano, detto della Viola [da Mano]. I think there is another place where he is called that, too. Maybe one of the astrological reports. ajn
Re: arthur ness HUP edition
Yes, I had found this, but unfortunately Lubrano had already sold it when I contacted them about 3 weeks ago. I think it takes quite a while to clear sold volumes from the search engines. hi all, i just found this in: http://www.zvab.com/SESSz33821173311083653933/gr2/en/index.html? Ness, Arthur J. (ed.): The Lute Music of Francesco Canova da Milano (1497-1543) Volumes I and II, Cambridge Harvard University Press 1970 Harvard Publications in Music 3 and 4. Folio. original wraps. xxxii, 473 pp. Very god condition. wraps worn. Bestellnr. 004779 [SW: lute music, early music, scores] Found in the catalogue: Scores (312 further titles) Vendor: J J Lubrano Music Antiquarians [US-11743 Lloyd Harbor NY] Price: EUR 85.00 Shipping charges: not specified Dr. Wolfgang Wiehe Zentrales Analytisches Labor BTU-Cottbus []\ (_) www.zal.tu-cottbus.de
Re: Astrologos
This topic has been covered previously on the list (exhaustively!!). I would suggest Jon look up the archives. Before this starts another mamoth thread (We know what happened last time!) with best intentions Anthony MO's conspicuous absence causes compromised vigilance. RT __ Roman M. Turovsky http://turovsky.org http://polyhymnion.org Eugene, I think we actually agree, I may have mis-stated my comment. In this case the oringinal publisher (1901) is long out of business, the publisher of the reprint (1971) has been bought out - and the new owner of the copyright has no interest in reprinting (I contacted them). The publisher of the facsimile (Lyon Healy Harps) seems to have done the same thing I did - that is to copy an existing book (although they didn't respond when I emailed them for info). This is not a rare and ancient book, the 1971 reprint is available in many libraries (my Monmouth County Library was able to get it from one two counties away). The question of public domain, in this case, I think is moot. I'm sure the original copyright still stands, and is in the hands of the publisher of the reprint. The Lyon Healy facsimiles may be illegal, for all I know - or they may be a direct agreement to not seek redress. The publisher of the reprint had no direct knowledge of them, as they didn't suggest them as a source - they only suggested the used book market. I believe that there is a difference under US law between a facsimile of an original (even if in public domain) and a copying of the text. The first would purport to be original, and the second merely a new version. But that is up to the legal scholars. In my case there was no source to gain the text, other than repeatedly renewing it from the library, except by paying for similar copies made by Lyon Healy (who don't run a publishing business, they make harps). And to the best of my knowledge they do the music book publishing on the side as a service to their main business. At least I think so, and I did write them. So I was speaking of a very specific circumstance, and agree with you as to the small publisher with copyrightable material. I would have been quite happy to pay a reasonable price for someone else's work in copying that book, or even an exhorbitant price if the book were available only by going to Ulan Bator to copy the original. But in this case the alternate vendor didn't have the copyright either. Best, Jon I don't entirely agree with this last statement. What happens if you are a small publisher of copyrightable material and have no intent to monopolize, but just want to make a living while providing something interesting to as wide an audience as possible? If your copyrighted material is wantonly, widely copied and your investment in production fails miserably, will you undertake such a venture again? I wouldn't. One to a few of the selfish win in such a case while many lose. In any event, this isn't entirely relevant, because as I understand things, facsimiles of public domain material are not protected by copyright in the US. Copying new introductory text, new cover art, lists for interpretation of errata, etc. (which would be protected) would constitute theft and be understandably illegal. Best, Eugene __ maltaNET broadBAND Internet starting from Lm 10.39. Check out http://www.maltanet.net
Re: history of frets
thank you roman - do you think one style of peg box has a structural advantage over the other or can the curvature of the swan's neck peg box be considered simply as oriental embellishment? Probably the latter. RT ciao - bill On Lunedì, mag 3, 2004, at 19:18 Europe/Rome, Roman Turovsky wrote: again, if i may, i'd like to pose a question concerning the oud's swan's neck and lute's angular peg box. does anyone know why the former was abandoned during the development of the european lute It wasn't. Some lutes have curved pegboxes, notably Dutch 12-course Lutes, mandoras, Ukrainian Cobzas etc. RT __ Roman M. Turovsky http://turovsky.org http://polyhymnion.org
Re: Stupid Query
Hi Chris, sorry I put it equivocal. What I meant to say is that I go to a store every three months or so and buy an especially non-skid, or non-slip, cloth actually made for window cleaning. The fabric, however, is a kind of rubber, not chamoix or another sort of leather. So, squeegee (Jon) comes close, but it is a cloth. Its traction is just marvelous. *Rest* was intended to mean stability. I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about. Can you be more specific (perhaps we don't have this sort of thing in the U.S.?). This could also have a VERY different and highly disturbing meaning in America! CW Every now and then I go and get myself a new rubber for window cleaning as the old one has become to dry, dusty, and slippery. I put it between my belly and the lute's belly so that we both have rest :) -- Best wishes, Mathias Mathias Roesel, Grosze Annenstrasze 5, 28199 Bremen, Deutschland/ Germany, T/F +49 - 421 - 165 49 97, Fax +49 1805 060 334 480 67, E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesucht: Das Beste für die Stadt Ökumenischer Stadtkirchentag vom 19. bis 26. September 2004 in Bremen ! http://www.stadtkirchentag-bremen.de
Re: TORBANISTICA MAY 1
One more item, from ca. 1800 (13-course) Synopsis: A young girl asking her grandmother's advice. She cannot stop dreaming of a certain cossack. http://polyhymnion.org/lieder/lieder.html RT __ I have just posted another Ukrainian folk song with obbligato Torban/Baroque-Lute, at http://polyhymnion.org/torban/torban4.html This time there is no bloodshed in it. The synopsis is: Dear Moon, shine your light on no one, except my sweetheart, when he walks home. Enjoy, RT
LuteFest 2004: cheap flights to Cleveland
I receive postings of discount fares from Continental Airlines (Cleveland is one of the hub airports for Continental) and just received a notice that the following cities have one way summer fares of $68 to Cleveland, perhaps relevant to some LuteFest attendees. You would need to check on their site for more details: Albany, Baltimore, Columbus (OH), Grand Rapids, Hartford, Indianapolis, Nashville, New York (both LaGuardia and Newark airports), Norfolk (VA), Raleigh/Durham, Richmond (VA), and Kansas City. - Kenneth Be LuteFest 2004 Director
Re: Stupid query from beginner
In a message dated 5/3/2004 5:53:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The only other thing that helps is to jam the thing against a cigarette packet in my trouser pocket and I'm planning to give up soon. according to the spam i get, there are pills that will help you replace that cigarette bulge with something more organic. welcome to the list - bill H! Seems to me that this would only work for 50% of the population, though. - Kenneth Be
Re: Stupid query from beginner
The only other thing that helps is to jam the thing against a cigarette packet in my trouser pocket and I'm planning to give up soon. according to the spam i get, there are pills that will help you replace that cigarette bulge with something more organic. welcome to the list - bill H! Seems to me that this would only work for 50% of the population, though. - Kenneth Be FYI: 1.Women outnumber men. 2. Supposedly these pills are beneficial fot them as well. 3. Considering spam I get, Ave Regina Coelorum should from now on read CIAlorum. And Arto, in his permanent Monteverdi reverie, may self-accompany Rosa del ciAl from Orfeo. RT
Monteverdi/Stupid query from beginner
Which brings me to an issue - I suggested Monteverdis (Marino) Baci Cari for a house concert in july and thought I would have a complete copy of it from a recent performance of it. But I just have found the first 3 pages in my files. If someone could provide the missing pages I would be very gratefull. Because it won't serve a public performance I'm rather sure no copyright would be infringed. Best wishes Thomas Am Die, 2004-05-04 um 23.30 schrieb Roman Turovsky: The only other thing that helps is to jam the thing against a cigarette packet in my trouser pocket and I'm planning to give up soon. according to the spam i get, there are pills that will help you replace that cigarette bulge with something more organic. welcome to the list - bill H! Seems to me that this would only work for 50% of the population, though. - Kenneth Be FYI: 1.Women outnumber men. 2. Supposedly these pills are beneficial fot them as well. 3. Considering spam I get, Ave Regina Coelorum should from now on read CIAlorum. And Arto, in his permanent Monteverdi reverie, may self-accompany Rosa del ciAl from Orfeo. RT -- Thomas Schall Niederhofheimer Weg 3 D-65843 Sulzbach 06196/74519 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.lautenist.de / www.tslaute.de/weiss --
Re: Stupid Query
For CW, I think (as I'm sure you are aware) he means a squeegee. As to the support, as I don't play a real lute I have found that the hard rubber foam that I removed from my lady's neck rest (for travel, and replaced with a softer foam) makes a perfect interface between my belly and the back of the flat back. It simulates the shape of the lute bowl, and provides a bit of friction. Best, Jon
Re: FaSoLa / Shape-Note singing in New Jersey
David, Some of the professional choral groups such as the Hilliard Ensemble have recorded shape-note singing, but most of the fasola community laugh at them. To bring a trained voice into a shape-note sing, or to perform that music in any way, is to completely miss the point. I was thinking more of some brief clips of amateur competitions I've seen on TV news, but even that would seem to deny the purpose. Whatever, I have a trained voice but won't be bringing it into the sing. I lost it some years ago in a miasma of Cigareets and Whuskey. I've been trying to get the Wild,Wild Wimmen to help me search through the fog to find it, but so far have had no success. Best, Jon
Re: Astrologos
Eugene, I think we actually agree, I may have mis-stated my comment. In this case the oringinal publisher (1901) is long out of business, the publisher of the reprint (1971) has been bought out - and the new owner of the copyright has no interest in reprinting (I contacted them). The publisher of the facsimile (Lyon Healy Harps) seems to have done the same thing I did - that is to copy an existing book (although they didn't respond when I emailed them for info). This is not a rare and ancient book, the 1971 reprint is available in many libraries (my Monmouth County Library was able to get it from one two counties away). The question of public domain, in this case, I think is moot. I'm sure the original copyright still stands, and is in the hands of the publisher of the reprint. The Lyon Healy facsimiles may be illegal, for all I know - or they may be a direct agreement to not seek redress. The publisher of the reprint had no direct knowledge of them, as they didn't suggest them as a source - they only suggested the used book market. I believe that there is a difference under US law between a facsimile of an original (even if in public domain) and a copying of the text. The first would purport to be original, and the second merely a new version. But that is up to the legal scholars. In my case there was no source to gain the text, other than repeatedly renewing it from the library, except by paying for similar copies made by Lyon Healy (who don't run a publishing business, they make harps). And to the best of my knowledge they do the music book publishing on the side as a service to their main business. At least I think so, and I did write them. So I was speaking of a very specific circumstance, and agree with you as to the small publisher with copyrightable material. I would have been quite happy to pay a reasonable price for someone else's work in copying that book, or even an exhorbitant price if the book were available only by going to Ulan Bator to copy the original. But in this case the alternate vendor didn't have the copyright either. Best, Jon I don't entirely agree with this last statement. What happens if you are a small publisher of copyrightable material and have no intent to monopolize, but just want to make a living while providing something interesting to as wide an audience as possible? If your copyrighted material is wantonly, widely copied and your investment in production fails miserably, will you undertake such a venture again? I wouldn't. One to a few of the selfish win in such a case while many lose. In any event, this isn't entirely relevant, because as I understand things, facsimiles of public domain material are not protected by copyright in the US. Copying new introductory text, new cover art, lists for interpretation of errata, etc. (which would be protected) would constitute theft and be understandably illegal. Best, Eugene
