Re: Sixth Comma Meantone
Does anyone know whether there is an electronic tuner that can be set = for the various meantone tunings, or at least one that will show exactly = at how many vibrations per second a given string is resonating? The Peterson V-SAM allows you to save user definable temperament. They claim an accuracy of one one-thousandth of a Cent. If so, is anyone = mathematician enough to tell me by how much to vary the pitch of A on = the tuner for each string? ... After all these questions, it probably would have been easier just to = ask Stewart how he goes about tuning the strings to a precise number of = vibrations per second. I'd be interested to know that too, but I'll throw in my 2 yen. Bear in mind that's worth less than 2 cents (pun?). For 6th comma meantone (I assume you've set your frets), tune your 1st and 6th courses, then just try to tune the 5th string 2 cents sharp; the 4th 4 c sharp; the 2nd 2 c flat the 3rd 4 c flat. In my experience, since the pitch of a lute drops over time, and pegs and strings are not perfect, it is very difficult to get it spot on, but that is what I am for. I also have a tastini glued at the first fret on the fourth string for F sharp. cheers, -- Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
Upstate NY Concert time change to 7:30pm
The Windfall Dutch Barn, Salt Springville, NY will present A Potpourri of 17th 19th Century Solos and Duets on Wednesday, July 28 at 7:30. The performers are Mary Ann Ross- Soprano, David Raphaelson -baritone, 19th century modern guitars and Salvatore Salvaggio -lute, baroque modern guitars. Works by Dowland, Carulli, Foden, daMilano and others will be performed. Artist Bios: David Raphaelson performs regularly on the parlor guitar and the concert guitar. Dave has been a featured performer at museums and historical sites throughout the Northeast and has been awarded grants from the New York Council on the Arts and the New York Foundation For The Humanities. Dave holds a graduate degree in guitar performances from Northern Arizona University and has released three compact discs to his credit. Mary-Ann Ross has performed as soloist with a wide array of music groups -choral, chamber and orchestral- including appearances with the Catskill and Albany Symphonies. She has presented works by Virgil Thompson, Michael Tippett, George Walker, John Cage, Tom Johnson and Yehudi Winter in the presence of and in collaboration with the composers. A Juilliard graduate, her voice teachers include Josephine Antoine, Belle Soudant, Alice Howland, Helen Boatright and Cynthis Hoffmann. She is a member of the National Association of Teachers of Singing (NATS) and the American Guild of Musical Artists (AGMA Salvatore Salvaggio has performed in recitals for over 30 years. He has played with the Flagstaff Symphony Glimmerglass Opera Orchestras, recorded for the New York State Historical Association, given recitals at the Boston Early Music Festival and aired a program of renaissance lute music for NPR station WSKG. His 2003 fall tour included concerts for the Long Island, Philadelphia and Upstate New York Guitar Societies, The Listening Room ,Roswell, Georgia , Cafe Lena, Saratoga, NY and the Stamford Performing Arts Center __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Sixth Comma Meantone
Dear All: Pardon me if I've missed one of the many postings on this matter, but I thought I'd throw my two cents in. Korg makes an orchestral tuner with various temperament settings. I don't have one, but I gather it's similar to their former MT-1200 Master Tune model. This tuner, which I use regularly, has several pre-set temperaments and a couple of programmable settings. The new one looks to be about half the size, thanks to the steady march of technology. For those interested in fret placement, the article, and especially the accompanying charts, by David Dolata in a 1994 issue of the Lute Society of America Quarterly is very useful. One can basically skip all the theoretical stuff and just use the charts to place the frets. Yours, Jim
Sixth Comma Meantone
Dear Ed, Seeing as you ask, I use an old Korg MT-1200 set to Vallotti. As I understand it, Vallotti is the same as sixth comma meantone as far as the white notes (on the piano) are concerned, so the two temperaments amount to the same thing. When I have tuned with the box (by listening to the note, not using the needle), I play a few chords to make sure everything sounds OK. I always include these two chords in my check: _c___d__ _e___d__ _f___f__ _e___f__ _c___f__ _d__ What you say about adding or subtracting two cents from equal temperament is quite true. I would add that you add or subtract more and more cents, the further you go round the circle of fifths: Gb Db Ab Eb Bb F C G D A E B F# C# G# So, if you tune A to 440, you add or subtract the following cents for sixth comma meantone: Gb(+18) Db(+16) Ab(+14) Eb(+12) Bb(+10) F(+8) C(+6) G(+4) D(+2) A E(-2) B(-4) F#(-6) C#(-8) G#(-10) etc. For anyone unfamiliar with the circle of fifths, it is the order you add sharps or flats to the key signature to make scales: C - no sharps or flats G - one sharp (F#) D - two sharps (F#, C#) A - three sharps (F#, C#, G#) etc. or going the other way F - one flat (Bb) Bb - two flats (Bb, Eb) Eb - three flats (Bb, Eb, Ab), etc. When you go round the circle of fifths with equal temperament, you get back to where you start, because F# is the same as Gb, C# is the same as Db, etc. This is why you can talk about going round the clock, because there are only twelve different notes. With meantone temperaments, these pairs of notes are nowhere near the same - F# is 24 cents lower than Gb - about a quarter of a semitone, so the ends of the circle never meet up. Best wishes, Stewart. - Original Message - From: Ed Durbrow [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 12:03 PM Subject: Re: Sixth Comma Meantone Does anyone know whether there is an electronic tuner that can be set = for the various meantone tunings, or at least one that will show exactly = at how many vibrations per second a given string is resonating? The Peterson V-SAM allows you to save user definable temperament. They claim an accuracy of one one-thousandth of a Cent. If so, is anyone = mathematician enough to tell me by how much to vary the pitch of A on = the tuner for each string? ... After all these questions, it probably would have been easier just to = ask Stewart how he goes about tuning the strings to a precise number of = vibrations per second. I'd be interested to know that too, but I'll throw in my 2 yen. Bear in mind that's worth less than 2 cents (pun?). For 6th comma meantone (I assume you've set your frets), tune your 1st and 6th courses, then just try to tune the 5th string 2 cents sharp; the 4th 4 c sharp; the 2nd 2 c flat the 3rd 4 c flat. In my experience, since the pitch of a lute drops over time, and pegs and strings are not perfect, it is very difficult to get it spot on, but that is what I am for. I also have a tastini glued at the first fret on the fourth string for F sharp. cheers, -- Ed Durbrow
Re: Sixth Comma Meantone
The Peterson V-SAM allows you to save user definable temperament. They claim an accuracy of one one-thousandth of a Cent. Oops that should have read 1/1000th of a semitone not cent. http://www.petersontuners.com/products/modelvsam/index.cfm -- Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ --
cordes avalees
Dear Bill, Cordes avaléessimply means lowered strings (not swallowed strings). As Taco says, there are cordes avalées tunings for the lute in Francisque's _Le Tresor d'Orphée_ (Paris, 1600). The earliest use of the French phrase which I can think of off hand is in those renaissance guitar books printed in France in the 1550's, e.g. acorde avallée in Morlaye's _Quatriesme Livre_ (Paris, 1552), 18v. Here the 4th course should be lowered by a tone. This tuning was known in Spain as the old tuning (temple viejos), and was used by Mudarra for the first guitar piece in his _Tres Libros_ (Seville, 1546). The lute needs to have the 6th course tuned down a tone in sources as diverse as the Capirola Lute Book and the Willoughby Lute Book. I think there may be a late 15th century source (Pesaro?) which also requires the 6th course down a tone, but I can't remember for sure, and I don't have a copy at home. Dalza (1508) has a tuning where the 5th and 6th courses of the lute have to be tuned down a tone. If I remember right - I'm sorry I can't put my hand on it to check - Barberiis has three unusual tunings for the lute in his _Libro Decimo_ (1549). Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. - Original Message - From: bill [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute society [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 2:30 PM Subject: cordes avalees would someone please explain the term cordes avalees? it's mentioned several times on google but not explained. cordiale salute - bill
lute face competition
My favorite portrait of a lutenist is the engraving on the titlepage of Sebastian Ochsenkhun's tablature book of 1558. There is a surprised look of disgust on his face. You can almost hear the expletive he uttered at that moment. Why? If you carefullly examine the engraving you'll find out has just broken a string! ajn
Re: pesaro etc
As I spoke to Andrea Damiani a while ago he told me there would be plans to make an edition because the manuscript would be hardly legible and full of mistakes. The CD is hard to get as far as I know. Maybe you should ask Andrea directly. I really like the CD and his playing. Best wishes Am Die, 2004-07-20 um 12.14 schrieb MARTIN SHEPHERD: Don't forget Andrea Damiani made an excellent CD of music from the Pesaro MS: J'ay pris amour published by e lucevan le stelle EL962305 Best wishes, Martin P.S. If you haven't already done so, please make a note of my changed email address - the new one is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Denys Stephens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Tadeusz, I don't know of any transcriptions from the Pesaro ms that are downloadable from the net. There is a complete modern edition of the manuscript edited by Vladimir Ivanoff (Edition der Handschrift Pesaro, Biblioteca Oliveriana, Ms. 1144, Munchner Editionen zur Musikgeschichte 7, Tutzing, 1988). There are a few pieces from the Thibault Ms at Wayne's site at: http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/tab-serv/tab-serv.cgi?Vmd27 and there are further pieces plus an excellent article on the manuscript by Lewis Jones in the Lute Society's The Lute 1982 volume XXII part 2. Several people have expressed an intention to produce a complete edition of the manuscript but none, to my knowledge, has yet done so. Both the Pesaro and Thibault manuscripts present difficulties in interpretation, the latter being almost completely without rhythm signs and bar lines, so transcribing the pieces involves a lot more work than is usual with later sources. There is an excellent facsimile of the manuscript by Minkoff, but as far as I am aware, it's out of print. Quite a number of pieces in the manuscript may have originally been composed for plectrum playing, which makes it particularly interesting as it seems to belong to a time when plectrum and fingerstyle playing were both in use. Best wishes, Denys - Original Message - From: Tadeusz Czechak To: Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 6:30 PM Subject: pesaro etc Hello all Anyone knows if it's possible to find somewhere in the web pieces from = Pesaro and Thibaut mss ? I already got a supplement to Lute News , but = still looking for more greetings -Tadeusz Czechak -- -- -- Thomas Schall Niederhofheimer Weg 3 D-65843 Sulzbach 06196/74519 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.lautenist.de / www.tslaute.de/weiss --
Re: Mike Godfrey - HEY!! I got my 10 Course back!
Nylgut - obtained from the intestines of a riverine animal native to Egypt. Thought to be related to the Nauga. - Original Message - From: Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 9:37 PM Subject: RE: Mike Godfrey - HEY!! I got my 10 Course back! Hey, I got my 10-course lute back with the fixed fracture in the soundboard! Okay, I've forgotten what a joyless exercise it is to tune a 10-course lute. My fingers already hurt. Plus, the majority of my strings are nylon (pretty sound...). I'm not up on all the string types, though. Everyone praises nylgut? Is that part animal / part plastic? The lower strings on my lute are the heavier metal/cable type. The nylon is buzzy at times. That stinks. BUT...most importantly, my lute is probably under one thousand pounds of pressure right now, having been tuned, and the slight fracture isn't showing at all! That makes me happy. The pegs are holding well...thank you larry brown...and at times, they are so freakin tight, it really does cause finger pain to tune it. It's the closeness of the pegs that make it hard to tune everything...one string gets as pitch perfect as I can make it, and the next peg I go to turn, my knuckle knocks the last peg. Plus, I have one of those pitch pipes...not the digital tuners, so when I'm blowing a G, I also hear F# and A flat. Reminiscent of Mr. Rogers' choo-choo train. This is distracting to the point of screamed obscenity, and invariably, the pitch pipe is dropped from my mouth and lost in the sofa...or one of my dogs try to run with it. It literally has been ages since I played, so I was sort of at a loss. All in all, I am happy. I DO REALLY need new strings. The nylon has to go. Are gut strings from an animal? If so, what kind of animal? Also, the man that fixed my lute was amazed that it was built in 1983. He could see Larry Brown's signature inside with the date. You kind of have to peer through the rosette. Given it's good physical condition, and the fact that it is almost 22 years old, he said it should last forever unless I do something really stupid. Again, thanks everyone for the support and help here! I'm going to go busy myself for the next 9 hours trying to get it back into tune. Michael Godfrey
