[LUTE] Re: Sting pool-A list and then some
These are the numbers for yahoo search results for Dowland +__ 194,000 for "dowland" Sting 16,500 for "dowland" o'dette 13,700 for "dowland" bream 10,500 for "dowland" deller (had to include this) 1,560 for "dowland" Hopkinson These are the numbers for yahoo search results for lute+__ 103,000 for "Lute" + sting 39,800 for "Lute" + o'dette 39,900 for "Lute" bream 10,700 for "Lute" hopkinson __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Karamazov and Sting
Exatly in that billing order: I have just come home from the Karamazov/Sting gig here in NYC, and it was EXCELLENT. Karamazov on 3 DOUBLESTRUNG archlutes and an 8course, and Sting on a singlestrung archlute. Dowland, RJohnson in the first half (including the Rossignol duo), Sting and (Miss.delta) RJohnson in the second. IN DARKNESS LET ME DWELL was absolutely eerie, like Mahler. RT - Original Message - From: "Jorge Torres" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Howard Posner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Louis Aull" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 1:26 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Hip and Sting > List: > > Early music, or any music, is not a dead deposit. It has a past, a > present, > and a future, all of which may reside in the same work(s), whether played > by > Dowland, , Segovia, Bream, O'Dette, or Sting. And within each if these > spheres of influence there is contestation and debate over how well or > authentically it is done. I'm sure there are some who believe that > Segovia's Dowland sounded better on the guitar than on the lute. And > there > are those who prefer Bream to O'Dette, and of course Sting to Odette. > Vive > la différence! > > Cheers, > Jorge > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
[LUTE] Sting pool
Fellow lutenetters and potential gambling buddies I think we should start a lute cd "pool" to see which lute cd has sold the most copies in the last 6 months..how's about 5 bucks a pop? ---anybody live in Nevada - I think we can run it from there.odds anyone? (I'd love to win that - I need $ for strings for my 13 course dm rig - better yet - maybe with all this lute on the airwaves hub-bub the gigs will start pouring in like crazy...) SS - stung __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The last word goes to Sting
- Original Message - From: Rob Dorsey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Monday, October 9, 2006 5:51 pm Subject: [LUTE] Re: The last word goes to Sting > David, > > Not mention Jethro Tull doing the BWV 996 Bouree' on flute. > > Now, that's interpretation! Jethro Tull, of course, is a rock band and not a flutists. Even more exciting for me was their later, rather heavy, progressive rock instrumental setting of Henry VIII's "Pastyme with good companye" as "King Henry's Madrigal." Not much HIP there, but it sure was hip. Eugene To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Talking about lutesongs and Dowland...
Dear all, To cool down from all this Sting related discussion I invite you all to visit our completely renewed lute-song website. I would like to know your opinion about the music (we have almost all tracks from our recording available online for you to listen) and the website itself. I also invite you to sign our guestbook. Any entry will be much appreciated. This is the link: http://www.lutevoice.com I hope you enjoy it! Many greetings to all, Alfonso To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Loves Constancy
Does anyone have a version of Lanier's Loves Constancy with a realized lute part or at least the figures written in? I only have the bass line and my feeble continuo skills are not up to the task. Thanks. DS To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] McFarlane Lute Weekend
The Ronn McFarlane lute weekend has ended, and I believe it was a great success for everyone who attended. We had a very eclectic mix from amateurs to professionals, beginners to advanced, lutenists to singers. Ronn gave a house concert Saturday night of Dowland and McFarlane (at least in the second half, we know he was HIP). All his coaching, lessons and masterclasses culminated Sunday with a student concert. Photos are available at http://web.mac.com/dshoskes/iWeb/Lute%20Photos/Lute%20Weekend.html If we can generate sustained interest next year, hopefully we can do it again. DS To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Hip and Sting
There once was a lute email list No rancor or bile ever missed The offending thing Came from one named Sting Thus all of the listers got pissed -Original Message- From: Louis Aull [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 11:15 AM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Hip and Sting Doesn't anyone recall that real HIP playing led to the evolution and demise of the lute in it's own time? That the paying audience might have had some influence over this choice rather than the scholars? Lou Aull -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The last word goes to Sting
Hello Stephen, > > I'm not certain what you meant by that last statement. If > you mean that no curiosity will be generated because of the > 'bad sound/music', or maybe you meant that less curiosity > will be generated than if the sound/music was 'good': I will > politely disagree. What I wanted to say is that I'm not sure that the balance between the positive aspect of all this (the curiosity for the Dowland music that surely this CD will produce in some listeners) and the negative aspect (what I called the "distorted idea" it gives of ancient music) is toward the positive side. > It's been said, "There's no such thing as bad publicity." > > > If Sting arouses curiosity, it will mostly be curiosity among > people who have never heard of the lute. Some of those > people will be intrigued enough to search for more "lute" > music, either in music shops or on the internet. What will > they find? More music exactly like what Sting has done? Or > something closer to what people on this list consider > authentic "lute" music. Yes, or they might think that it sounds very bad and will never buy a lute CD anymore. Or they might be so much used to that way of performing this music to think that is the real way to do and will reject "authentic lute music" as boring and uninspiring. If this CD sells very well, as it seems, there might be some other rock musician that may follow Sting in this path (I don't think so but, who knows, money is money) and that way of performing might be the way people will expect for this music. > I was intrigued with the "lute" when I heard the Lachrimae > Antiquae cut from Dances of Dowland by Julian Bream, > Lutenist. I recorded the LP from my local public library > onto cassette tape. I didn't copy the notes on the > recording's jacket, so I don't know exactly what instrument > Mr Bream was playing. I listened the lute the first time through the Ragossnig LPs. Played with the nails I guess and not very HIP for what we know now but at the time very good and evocative. > Listening to the cassette tape now, I'm wondering if Mr Bream > was playing with nails, on nylon strings, on a guitar in lute > tuning. > Not very HIP to lutenists if that is indeed the case. Or > maybe his playing was miked to closely. Who knows? > > But it was Mr Bream's recording (and his Lute Music of > Dowland recording, also copied to cassette tape from a public > library LP) that brought me to the lute (over a decade later > after making those cassette recordings) when I decided to > return to 'personal' music (making music by and for myself). > I researched the lute on the internet and found this list, > among other resources. That's all right, but in any case you had access to very good performance and to a very good and inspiring musician. Maybe the instrument wasn't right but the music was played very well. > I'm now playing a Renaissance G Lute, double gut strung in > unison on 1, 2, and 3, double gut strung octave on 4, 5, and > 6, in quarter comma meantone temperament, with A=415Hz, and > thumb out. Quite a different sound from Mr Bream's recordings. > > Thanks to Mr Bream, my soul is singing again. No one else > may ever hear me play, but I don't care. I have come home to > the lute and it's mellow, intimate sound. > > You can be certain that people hearing Sting's CD will be > visiting this list at some time. > > Perhaps strongly critiquing Sting will discourage these > curious searchers from the lute and the lute community. > Perhaps it would be wiser to welcome Sting's efforts, welcome > the publicity, and most certainly welcome the curious searchers. Who knows... It might be and I don't pretend to be right. We will see. Best regards, Francesco To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Sting on USA television
This morning, my secretary said, "I saw a preview to a show... the CBS Sunday morning show, to be broadcast this coming Sunday at 8:00 a.m. (Central time); they will have Sting, with another guy, playing instruments that look something like yours". Stay tuned... ed Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice: (218) 728-1202 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The last word goes to Sting
David, Not mention Jethro Tull doing the BWV 996 Bouree' on flute. Now, that's interpretation! Rob Dorsey http://RobDorsey.com -Original Message- From: David Rastall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 5:45 PM To: Howard Posner Cc: Lute Net Subject: [LUTE] Re: The last word goes to Sting On Oct 9, 2006, at 3:34 PM, Howard Posner wrote: > That's too bad. You missed Ronn and Mick Jagger doing Ferrabosco. Uh, which Ronn Wood that be...??? Hah! Sir Mick, accompanied on period instruments by master Ronnie and master Keith, wth master Charles beating out the tactus. But, wait a minute...don't we already have that? DR [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.rastallmusic.com -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The last word goes to Sting
On Oct 9, 2006, at 3:34 PM, Howard Posner wrote: > That's too bad. You missed Ronn and Mick Jagger doing Ferrabosco. Uh, which Ronn Wood that be...??? Hah! Sir Mick, accompanied on period instruments by master Ronnie and master Keith, wth master Charles beating out the tactus. But, wait a minute...don't we already have that? DR [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.rastallmusic.com -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The last word goes to Sting
Think yourselves lucky, folks - tonight on French TV they had a whole show of variety stars singing opera classics. I just couldn't find the on button To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The last word goes to Sting
Robert Margo wrote: > Actually, Daniel, what I would like to hear about is the McFarlane > workshop, > which I very much wanted to attend but couldn't get away for. That's too bad. You missed Ronn and Mick Jagger doing Ferrabosco. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The last word goes to Sting
Actually, Daniel, what I would like to hear about is the McFarlane workshop, which I very much wanted to attend but couldn't get away for. Robert Margo On 10/9/06, Daniel Shoskes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> > >> Art is art and artists shouldn't be ranked like world tennis players. > >> Nevertheless I don't think it is too unreasonable to at least > >> think in > >> terms of broad bands of technical and artistic ability. No need to > >> quibble about specifics, but there is definitely an "A" list that > >> includes people like POD, McFarlane, Hoppy, Satoh, Lindberg, Barto, > >> Stubbs and North. > > > > I must say that I find the "A" list quite arbitrary and unbalanced > > for my > > own taste, but if it is based on personal perception and values, > > I'm ok with > > that. > > > Wow, I thought at least my A list would be non-controversial. Shows > that I may need exposure to more diverse opinions. > > > > > > > The way you put it makes it difficult to answer... > > I'll place Edin in the "A" list, but probably wouldn't take as a > > parameter > > these two recordings. > > His live performances are of a much higher level that what he shows > > on the > > cds. > > In that case, he wouldn't be the first performer to have lousy > recordings but sound better in person and I reserve all further > judgement of his skills, outside the evidence of these 2 CD's, until > I have the pleasure of hearing him live myself. > > Finally, yesterday as part of a weekend lute workshop with Ronn > McFarlane at my home, I performed in the student concert with an > amateur soprano doing Dowland (If my complaints..., from the third > book of Sting) and Campion. If anyone would enjoy the Schadenfreude > of ripping my performance to shreds (leave the singer out of this!!!) > I would be glad to send them an mp3 off list. > > DS > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > --
[LUTE] Re: The last word goes to Sting
>> >> Art is art and artists shouldn't be ranked like world tennis players. >> Nevertheless I don't think it is too unreasonable to at least >> think in >> terms of broad bands of technical and artistic ability. No need to >> quibble about specifics, but there is definitely an "A" list that >> includes people like POD, McFarlane, Hoppy, Satoh, Lindberg, Barto, >> Stubbs and North. > > I must say that I find the "A" list quite arbitrary and unbalanced > for my > own taste, but if it is based on personal perception and values, > I'm ok with > that. > Wow, I thought at least my A list would be non-controversial. Shows that I may need exposure to more diverse opinions. > > > The way you put it makes it difficult to answer... > I'll place Edin in the "A" list, but probably wouldn't take as a > parameter > these two recordings. > His live performances are of a much higher level that what he shows > on the > cds. In that case, he wouldn't be the first performer to have lousy recordings but sound better in person and I reserve all further judgement of his skills, outside the evidence of these 2 CD's, until I have the pleasure of hearing him live myself. Finally, yesterday as part of a weekend lute workshop with Ronn McFarlane at my home, I performed in the student concert with an amateur soprano doing Dowland (If my complaints..., from the third book of Sting) and Campion. If anyone would enjoy the Schadenfreude of ripping my performance to shreds (leave the singer out of this!!!) I would be glad to send them an mp3 off list. DS To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The last word goes to Sting
On Oct 9, 2006, at 10:28 AM, Francesco Tribioli wrote: > ...To sing out of tune or out of tempo is wrong, HIP or > not HIP. To play outside an accepted temperament is wrong?, or to use "notes inegal" at your own personal discretion is wrong? Maybe, maybe not. > The point is that he is bringing to a wide audience music that in > my opinion > sounds bad because it's badly performed, with some sort of hybrid > instruments and hybrid technique and poor vocal technique. As he > has access > to a lot more people than any of the professional lutenists in the > world, > all those people listening at his CD will get a distorted idea of > what early > music is. I'm not sure this will be a good service to the lute > world and > that the curiosity it will spin in some of the listeners will be > prevalent. Well, okay, I've purposely avoided giving my opinion of Sting's Dowland, because I feel that it's not relevant to these discussions. Regarding "distorted ideas," can you say for sure that the Elizabethans had the same ideas on vocal technique, lute technique or instrumentation as we do? Maybe they did sound just like our CD heroines and heroes of today, and maybe they didn't. It's an open question. Always will be. David R [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.rastallmusic.com -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The last word goes to Sting
Hi Daniel, > >> >> Edin is an specialized lutenist (one of the best around, I should add), >> ... >> > Ariel: I wish Edin, the CD and any spill off into the lute community at > large great financial and artistic success. But I have to say that your > comment really gets under my skin. Do you mean that Edin is tops at his > published specialty (Bach and Britten on an archlute)? Then I would > completely agree. Do you honestly believe however that he is one of the > best professional lutenists around or at least a top Dowland interpreter? > If so, do you have any criteria other than friendship? I do believe that Edin is one of the best lute players today, and not necessary a Dowland expert. I heard him playing many different times, and I don't think friendship is the main criteria here, but of course feel free to thing the opposite. I love the way he plays Weiss, Zamboni, and Bach, for instances. For other music, I'd go for other players, I guess. In any case, Daniel, don't take my words so personally. I'm a professional player like many other on the list, and my taste and criteria do not have to be shared by anyone else. I never meant to disqualify other people, obviously. I just gave my opinion on Edin's playing. > > Art is art and artists shouldn't be ranked like world tennis players. > Nevertheless I don't think it is too unreasonable to at least think in > terms of broad bands of technical and artistic ability. No need to > quibble about specifics, but there is definitely an "A" list that > includes people like POD, McFarlane, Hoppy, Satoh, Lindberg, Barto, > Stubbs and North. I must say that I find the "A" list quite arbitrary and unbalanced for my own taste, but if it is based on personal perception and values, I'm ok with that. There is another top group who aren't quite as well > known or broadly recorded but whose recordings really impress me, like > Wilson, Eguez, Held, and Lislevand. Same as in "A", to be honest. There are others whom I have > heard in person and on the occasional recording that also play at a very > high level like Richard Stone, Andrew Maginley, David Dolata, Scott > Pauley, Lucas Harris, amongst others. Of course everyone on the lutelist > will have a different personal preference list, and I know that Roman can > produce a list of people whose names I have never heard of and whose > names would yield extremely high Scrabble scores whom I have never heard > play but I am sure are very talented. The Scrabble thing is good! ; =) I guess I'm one of Roman's list. > > Nevertheless, do you believe that based on his 2 recordings, Edin's > technical and artistic levels exceed those of the arbitrary and highly > personal list I just came up with? > The way you put it makes it difficult to answer... I'll place Edin in the "A" list, but probably wouldn't take as a parameter these two recordings. His live performances are of a much higher level that what he shows on the cds. Of course, you may not like him. Some people consider some players to be simply amazing, while many other find them awful. This is quite obvious, and that very same thin thing applies to Edin's job. If Edin's thing wasn't as successful, we wouldn't be talking on the same terms, I'm sure. Just in case, I have my own musical life (although not with pop stars) and I'm Edin's friend as well as I'm Mascardi or Egüez friend. I have no deeper reasons or motivations to defend him. Saludos, A To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Hip and Sting
List: Early music, or any music, is not a dead deposit. It has a past, a present, and a future, all of which may reside in the same work(s), whether played by Dowland, , Segovia, Bream, O'Dette, or Sting. And within each if these spheres of influence there is contestation and debate over how well or authentically it is done. I'm sure there are some who believe that Segovia's Dowland sounded better on the guitar than on the lute. And there are those who prefer Bream to O'Dette, and of course Sting to Odette. Vive la différence! Cheers, Jorge To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The last word goes to Sting
On Oct 9, 2006, at 5:47 AM, ariel abramovich wrote: > > Edin is an specialized lutenist (one of the best around, I should > add), ... > Ariel: I wish Edin, the CD and any spill off into the lute community at large great financial and artistic success. But I have to say that your comment really gets under my skin. Do you mean that Edin is tops at his published specialty (Bach and Britten on an archlute)? Then I would completely agree. Do you honestly believe however that he is one of the best professional lutenists around or at least a top Dowland interpreter? If so, do you have any criteria other than friendship? Art is art and artists shouldn't be ranked like world tennis players. Nevertheless I don't think it is too unreasonable to at least think in terms of broad bands of technical and artistic ability. No need to quibble about specifics, but there is definitely an "A" list that includes people like POD, McFarlane, Hoppy, Satoh, Lindberg, Barto, Stubbs and North. There is another top group who aren't quite as well known or broadly recorded but whose recordings really impress me, like Wilson, Eguez, Held, and Lislevand. There are others whom I have heard in person and on the occasional recording that also play at a very high level like Richard Stone, Andrew Maginley, David Dolata, Scott Pauley, Lucas Harris, amongst others. Of course everyone on the lutelist will have a different personal preference list, and I know that Roman can produce a list of people whose names I have never heard of and whose names would yield extremely high Scrabble scores whom I have never heard play but I am sure are very talented. Nevertheless, do you believe that based on his 2 recordings, Edin's technical and artistic levels exceed those of the arbitrary and highly personal list I just came up with? DS To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Hip and Sting
On Monday, Oct 9, 2006, at 09:14 America/Los_Angeles, Louis Aull wrote: > Doesn't anyone recall that real HIP playing led to the evolution and > demise > of the lute in it's own time? And produced the music of Francesco Canova, John Dowland, and Silvius Leopold Weiss. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The last word goes to Sting
On Monday 09 October 2006 9:28 am, you wrote: > The point is that he is bringing to a wide audience music that in > my opinion sounds bad because it's badly performed, with some sort > of hybrid instruments and hybrid technique and poor vocal > technique. As he has access to a lot more people than any of the > professional lutenists in the world, all those people listening at > his CD will get a distorted idea of what early music is. I'm not > sure this will be a good service to the lute world and that the > curiosity it will spin in some of the listeners will be prevalent. Hello Francesco, I'm not certain what you meant by that last statement. If you mean that no curiosity will be generated because of the 'bad sound/music', or maybe you meant that less curiosity will be generated than if the sound/music was 'good': I will politely disagree. It's been said, "There's no such thing as bad publicity." If Sting arouses curiosity, it will mostly be curiosity among people who have never heard of the lute. Some of those people will be intrigued enough to search for more "lute" music, either in music shops or on the internet. What will they find? More music exactly like what Sting has done? Or something closer to what people on this list consider authentic "lute" music. I was intrigued with the "lute" when I heard the Lachrimae Antiquae cut from Dances of Dowland by Julian Bream, Lutenist. I recorded the LP from my local public library onto cassette tape. I didn't copy the notes on the recording's jacket, so I don't know exactly what instrument Mr Bream was playing. Listening to the cassette tape now, I'm wondering if Mr Bream was playing with nails, on nylon strings, on a guitar in lute tuning. Not very HIP to lutenists if that is indeed the case. Or maybe his playing was miked to closely. Who knows? But it was Mr Bream's recording (and his Lute Music of Dowland recording, also copied to cassette tape from a public library LP) that brought me to the lute (over a decade later after making those cassette recordings) when I decided to return to 'personal' music (making music by and for myself). I researched the lute on the internet and found this list, among other resources. I'm now playing a Renaissance G Lute, double gut strung in unison on 1, 2, and 3, double gut strung octave on 4, 5, and 6, in quarter comma meantone temperament, with A=415Hz, and thumb out. Quite a different sound from Mr Bream's recordings. Thanks to Mr Bream, my soul is singing again. No one else may ever hear me play, but I don't care. I have come home to the lute and it's mellow, intimate sound. You can be certain that people hearing Sting's CD will be visiting this list at some time. Perhaps strongly critiquing Sting will discourage these curious searchers from the lute and the lute community. Perhaps it would be wiser to welcome Sting's efforts, welcome the publicity, and most certainly welcome the curious searchers. Kind Regards, "The Other" Stephen Stubbs Champaign, IL US To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Hip and Sting
On Oct 9, 2006, at 12:14 PM, Louis Aull wrote: > Doesn't anyone recall that real HIP playing led to the evolution > and demise > of the lute in it's own time? That the paying audience might have > had some > influence over this choice rather than the scholars? Yes, the scholars come along much later, and tell us what "really" happened! ;-) "Evolution and demise" is a good way to describe the history of the lute. But I can't help thinking that it's: not the way evolution is supposed to work...? David R [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.rastallmusic.com -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The last word goes to Sting
On Oct 9, 2006, at 11:26 AM, Daniel Shoskes wrote > Could you please provide some specific examples? I recall reading > such discussions back when the term was "authentic music" and people > really went overboard, but I haven't seen these types of quotes more > recently from HIP writers in magazines such as EMA. Well, maybe I'm just living in the past. God knows, in the lute community I certainly would be in good company! DR [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.rastallmusic.com -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Hip and Sting
Doesn't anyone recall that real HIP playing led to the evolution and demise of the lute in it's own time? That the paying audience might have had some influence over this choice rather than the scholars? Lou Aull -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The last word goes to Sting
On Oct 9, 2006, at 9:18 AM, David Rastall wrote: > > > I'll tell you another interesting phenomenon. The HIP purists in the > early-music community, who set themselves above the commercial > mainstream believing in effect that only others from their particular > world are competent to critique what they do, are nevertheless very > quick to stand in judgement over what goes on in the commercial > mainstream when they think that their own blinkered little world may > be affected by it in some way. Could you please provide some specific examples? I recall reading such discussions back when the term was "authentic music" and people really went overboard, but I haven't seen these types of quotes more recently from HIP writers in magazines such as EMA. DS To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The last word goes to Sting
Joe, As someone else pointed out, Nigel does both of the first two. I don't know about a true first course, but he did actually record with a NINE-course lute, as Dowland called for. I think it _may_ have had a double chanterelle. But he has no qualms using nylgut. Chris --- Joseph Mayes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Just a question about how far the "hip" people go: > Does anyone play Dowland > using Thumb-out technique (as he seems to have > favored) or with unison > stringing on their lutes (as he seems to have > favored) Or with double > chanterelles (as was apparently the fashion re. "The > Schoole of Musicke")? > > > Joseph Mayes > > > On 10/9/06 8:35 AM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > In einer eMail vom 09.10.2006 14:22:20 > Westeurop=E4ische Normalzeit schreibt > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > > > >> become > >> something less than beautiful? > > > > when divisions are played like the Can she excuse > divisions on the sting CD. > > Sounds like they were played with a knife and fork > and the speed varying with > > the ability to play a particular passage. > > > > I listen to the radio performance yesterday with a > few friends and the whole > > room burst into laughter at the point. > > > > That would be a nasty comment, if it were an > amateur player, but considering > > he is supposed to be a specialist player, you tend > to ask, who gives people > > these titles. I am sorry but POD can play that > fast and it still sounds like > > music. > > > > Mark > > > > -- > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
[LUTE] Re: Angelique (olim Another Theorbo Question)
--- "Mathias Rösel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You mean, where are they being kept? No. > To think, however, that > the angelique must > have been developed, rather than invented, is an > unnessecary premise, > IMHO. It is extremely rare to find instruments that are simply invented, especially one that is so similar to other existing ones. What about the lute itself? We all know of its older brother, the oud, even though the outlines between the two become more and more blurred as we go back in time.. In fact, nearly all of our present day instruments have changed but little since their invention. Things like material, keys, valves, frets, "accidents" of design, merely represent technological modifications of an initial idea (the "invention") that often stretched back somewhere in pre-history. >The angelique > considerably differs from the > lute and the theorbo in two aspects, mainly: it is > single strung (lutes > are generally, theorbos more often than not, strung > with courses, i. e. > paired strings), and it's tuned like... - well: the > harp > (notwithstanding the fretboard of the angelique). No > fourths or fifths, > no re-entrant tuning either. True, the practical tuning setup of the two instruments is completely different, but the angelique's tessitura is completely identical to that of the 'theorbe de pieces.' According to Talbot this is from low C to high e (for 17-string instruments) - _exactly_ the same range. Could the angelique have even played theorbo music (with, perhaps, a little modification) then? >The bridge, pegbox, nut, must be > changed anyway (the > angelique bears 16 or 17 strings). This is no evidence that the angelique was created out of thin air. (Who, as in the case of the archlute or German swan neck, has been credited with its invention?) The same could be said of the development of the 11-course lute from the 10-or-fewer-course lute. Like the angelique, what started with experiments in tuning ended up with the invention of a new kind of lute - NOT the new lute and new tuning popping up together one day on a calendar. Why would anyone take an existing lute, add a new nut, bridge and rider - just for one more course? Why not just "invent" an 11-course as you propose happened with the angelique? The answer lies, of course, in the fact that many people started experimenting with tuning which eventually called for the structural changes. But we know that conversions were certainly done. As 11 courses became the norm, such instruments began to be made in their own right, even as conversions persisted to the days of the 13th course. So it must have been with the angelique. First, it was a plain theorbo with funky harp tuning, then an altered theorbo (new bridge, etc.), then finally a newly built dedicated instrument. >The > unique feature of the angelique certainly is its > tuning which is neither > devoloped nor taken over from the theorbo or lute. Its tuning unique? Not taken over from anything? You just mentioned that it is like a harp. Its external design is essentially a theorbo. > Swan necks are > secondary features, I'd say. Agreed! Chris > -- > Best, > > Mathias > > http://mathiasroesel.livejournal.com > http://www.myspace.com/mathiasroesel > http://de.geocities.com/mathiasroesel > -- > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
[LUTE] Re: The last word goes to Sting
In einer eMail vom 09.10.2006 16:18:41 Westeurop=E4ische Normalzeit schreibt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > I'm not sure if that's HIP > or just self-indulgence. A little of both, I guess For all the poking fun at sting & co I think all this HIP paranoia is even more amusing. Nobody here (apart from Sting) is claiming to have the ultimate way. I think if I say a single strung archlute is the wrong instrument for performing this music in a HIP way, then until someone can give me evidence that such an instrument existed then I am not being elitest or purist. Mark -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The last word goes to Sting
> the modern world. Otherwise, what is the point of the > 20th-century lute revival? Simply to amass information for Passing over your easy irony and attacks to the HIP police 8^), in my opinion, the point is to play music in a way that is the closest possible to the way it might have sounded, for a number of reasons related to music of course, not to some kind of blind decision. Otherwise it would be pointless to try to understand how the ancient lutenists played, to try to use the strings they used and so on. Let's pick up a galute, amplify it and go around saying it's a lute and that what we are playing is lute music. If this is ok for you, ok then, there is no reason to discuss anymore. What is the point of the 20th century revival of gamba? Or of the baroque oboe when there is the modern one which is much more in tune? Or traversiere or any other of the "ancient" instruments. Do you think that the players of these instruments are so worried about the survival of them? I don't think so, they simply play them trying to follow the original practice and try to do it well and this is the best guarantee of their survival. It seems to me there is a sort of feeling of inferiority in the lute world that doesn't seem to belong to other instrument players, as if we should always apologize or justify us for playing an ancient instrument with its own technique. It seems that to play the "old" way and the "old" lute music in a decent way would be the death of the lute. See, if this is true and really the survival of the lute is something that cares to him, why Sting & C. didn't *compose* new music for it? It would have been a wonderful idea and really a way to promote the instrument without any need to sell for "authentic" and "the right way" something that is nothing different than a bad performance of ancient music. > its own sake? Or satisfy the whims of a few heads-in- > the-sand purists? Perhaps, but if Sting can bring the lute About the head in the sand I would say that if one thinks that the Sting CD is well performed than really he has the head in the sand as his hears seem to work so and so... To sing out of tune or out of tempo is wrong, HIP or not HIP. > to a wider audience than we can, then he has succeeded where > we have failed. The point is that he is bringing to a wide audience music that in my opinion sounds bad because it's badly performed, with some sort of hybrid instruments and hybrid technique and poor vocal technique. As he has access to a lot more people than any of the professional lutenists in the world, all those people listening at his CD will get a distorted idea of what early music is. I'm not sure this will be a good service to the lute world and that the curiosity it will spin in some of the listeners will be prevalent. Taco said: > As long as there is a niche for a group of people sharing their sensitivity for a better dowland performance or a 'slow food' restaurant, I really don't mind. and me too. 8^) All the best Francesco To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The last word goes to Sting
On Oct 9, 2006, at 8:51 AM, Joseph Mayes wrote: > Just a question about how far the "hip" people go: Does anyone play > Dowland > using Thumb-out technique (as he seems to have favored) or with unison > stringing on their lutes (as he seems to have favored) Or with double > chanterelles (as was apparently the fashion re. "The Schoole of > Musicke")? Double *gut* chanterelles at that! I do play my 10-course thumb-out occasionally. Thumb-under gives me a better tone, but thumb-out gives me better articulation. So when I'm in a mood to make Dowland sound like renaissance music I'll play thumb-under, and when I feel like playing him with a more Baroque flavor, I'll go for the thumb-out sound. I'm not sure if that's HIP or just self-indulgence. A little of both, I guess. David R [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.rastallmusic.com -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The last word goes to Sting
In einer eMail vom 09.10.2006 15:20:49 Westeurop=E4ische Normalzeit schreibt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > The HIP purists Are you talking about sting here - the man with "the normal" voice or maybe Edin who says they ONLY uses instruments based on historical models. It seems very important fro them to be doing the "right thing" I do not think what "hip" players do is always the only answer and in the end there are always many grey areas. Sting and Edin are in fact quite open to take their modern approach. What they are doing is cross-over and if you are into that thing, have fun and enjoy. I just find it amusing that they make claims of "authenticity" which are more absurd than anything I have ever heard from "hip" players. Don't forget we are talking about Sting, the man who dissaproves of almost all of modern music. I ask myself, who is living in the past and who is a purist ? Have any of you had a look at sting.com, a quote from the masters words are posted each day the "Sting quote of the day" Today was a real thigh slapper "Music is its own reward. I don't measure my success and happiness by sales figures. I could, but I don't. I never fret if one record didn't sell as well as the last one. I'm nourished by playing music. It's my route to spirituality." The best bit is "I could, but I don't." Any of you who have seen the TV series The office, will recognise the David Brent quality of this comment. wishes Mark "To be Ozzie Osbourne, it's not so bad. It could be worse. I could be Sting." -Ozzie Osbourne -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Willow Song
Richard, One source is: Jorgens, Lise Bickford, ed. _English Song 1600-1675_. Vol. 1, British Library Manuscripts, Part I. London & New York, 1986. This should be available to you by Interlibrary Loan if it's not otherwise nearby. Good luck, Eric Hansen --- On Sun 10/08, Richard Brook < [EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: From: Richard Brook [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 11:17:56 -0400 Subject: [LUTE] Willow Song Hi NettersDoes anyone know where I can get the 'Willow Song' (Othello) with all the verses and lute accompaniment?Thanks, Dick BrookTo get on or off this list see list information athttp://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web!
[LUTE] Re: The last word goes to Sting
On Oct 9, 2006, at 5:03 AM, Francesco Tribioli wrote: > This is an interesting phenomenon: actually the quality of the music > and the quality of the performance are absolutely unimportant. No > one knows > who is Dowland, no one knows what a good performance of this music > is but > the name of pop star is enough to sell a piece of junk (IMHO) as > this CD > like the bread. It is considered a musical event, while CDs > recorded by > specialized lutenists and singers pass completely ignored! There is > something wrong in all this... Nowadays what sells is the name not > the music. I'll tell you another interesting phenomenon. The HIP purists in the early-music community, who set themselves above the commercial mainstream believing in effect that only others from their particular world are competent to critique what they do, are nevertheless very quick to stand in judgement over what goes on in the commercial mainstream when they think that their own blinkered little world may be affected by it in some way. Those who claim to know what is "authentic," and who see themselves as the sole arbiters of taste in early music, would do well to consider what happened the last time their oh-so-precious historical principles were applied for real, back in the days when they weren't history, when the "old ones" were still the current ones: the lute died. We don't want it to die again. Poke fun at Sting if you want to, but consider that you might not hear that question, "what's a lute?" quite so often any more. I have a great deal of respect and love for the lute, and I recognize the value of all the research that has been done in order to bring it back from the dead. But I also feel that it is inevitable that we are bound to re-invent the lute in the modern world. Otherwise, what is the point of the 20th-century lute revival? Simply to amass information for its own sake? Or satisfy the whims of a few heads-in- the-sand purists? Perhaps, but if Sting can bring the lute to a wider audience than we can, then he has succeeded where we have failed. David R [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.rastallmusic.com -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The last word goes to Sting
I thinkif my memory serves me correctly- that later in life - Dowland did play thumb out. But how about Paul O'dette playing theorbo and baroque lute thumb under?(this is based on second hand sightings) although I did see him years back play theorbo thumb under. You know, after listening to the Sting thing on the BBC I listened to the Early Music Show - they had some stuff on from the Brighton Early Music Festival. A group did some..ah hem.. pop tunes. Good Lord! Rolf L.'s group's new cd does some interesting things with the 'New Music" ..one of the tunes sounds like a bebop tune! Gotta goI'm arranging some "Police" tunes for broken consort - I'm kinda hesitant about adding vocals - but - there's Sting's vocal style and nuances to "copy" I hope the performance will be hip enough. SS --- Joseph Mayes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Just a question about how far the "hip" people go: > Does anyone play Dowland > using Thumb-out technique (as he seems to have > favored) or with unison > stringing on their lutes (as he seems to have > favored) Or with double > chanterelles (as was apparently the fashion re. "The > Schoole of Musicke")? > > > Joseph Mayes > > > On 10/9/06 8:35 AM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > In einer eMail vom 09.10.2006 14:22:20 > Westeurop=E4ische Normalzeit schreibt > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > > > >> become > >> something less than beautiful? > > > > when divisions are played like the Can she excuse > divisions on the sting CD. > > Sounds like they were played with a knife and fork > and the speed varying with > > the ability to play a particular passage. > > > > I listen to the radio performance yesterday with a > few friends and the whole > > room burst into laughter at the point. > > > > That would be a nasty comment, if it were an > amateur player, but considering > > he is supposed to be a specialist player, you tend > to ask, who gives people > > these titles. I am sorry but POD can play that > fast and it still sounds like > > music. > > > > Mark > > > > -- > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
[LUTE] Re: The last word goes to Sting
In einer eMail vom 09.10.2006 14:54:09 Westeurop=E4ische Normalzeit schreibt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > Just a question about how far the "hip" people go: Does anyone play Dowland > using Thumb-out technique (as he seems to have favored) or with unison > stringing on their lutes (as he seems to have favored) Or with double > chanterelles (as was apparently the fashion re. "The Schoole of Musicke")? > > > Joseph Mayes Nigel North does both of the first things and the last is something I would love to try. Mark -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The last word goes to Sting
Just a question about how far the "hip" people go: Does anyone play Dowland using Thumb-out technique (as he seems to have favored) or with unison stringing on their lutes (as he seems to have favored) Or with double chanterelles (as was apparently the fashion re. "The Schoole of Musicke")? Joseph Mayes On 10/9/06 8:35 AM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In einer eMail vom 09.10.2006 14:22:20 Westeurop=E4ische Normalzeit schreibt > [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > >> become >> something less than beautiful? > > when divisions are played like the Can she excuse divisions on the sting CD. > Sounds like they were played with a knife and fork and the speed varying with > the ability to play a particular passage. > > I listen to the radio performance yesterday with a few friends and the whole > room burst into laughter at the point. > > That would be a nasty comment, if it were an amateur player, but considering > he is supposed to be a specialist player, you tend to ask, who gives people > these titles. I am sorry but POD can play that fast and it still sounds like > music. > > Mark > > -- > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The last word goes to Sting
In einer eMail vom 09.10.2006 14:22:20 Westeurop=E4ische Normalzeit schreibt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > become > something less than beautiful? when divisions are played like the Can she excuse divisions on the sting CD. Sounds like they were played with a knife and fork and the speed varying with the ability to play a particular passage. I listen to the radio performance yesterday with a few friends and the whole room burst into laughter at the point. That would be a nasty comment, if it were an amateur player, but considering he is supposed to be a specialist player, you tend to ask, who gives people these titles. I am sorry but POD can play that fast and it still sounds like music. Mark -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The last word goes to Sting
one of the first posters i ever bought was a copy of the "mona lisa" and i learned a lot from it - much more than i was able to i learn from the original when it was brought to new york in 1960-something and i was whisked past it briefly, along with thousands of others in line. i learned about "sfumatura" from it and - because of the endless speculation over her mysterious smile - i learned that great painting is more than just what meets the eye. no matter how often i see it in reproduction, it's still beautiful: t-shirts, tea mugs, aprons, etc., etc.. i don't think there's any single image on the planet more reproduced than that painting - but it's still beautiful. assuming that the negative comments on sting's dowland recordings are artistic in nature and can be applied to art in general, at what point does the reproduction of any art - assuming it's done well - become something less than beautiful? at what point does its appreciation become something less than genuine? .. when it's mass produced and available to all? - bill ___ Try the all-new Yahoo! Mail. "The New Version is radically easier to use" The Wall Street Journal http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The last word goes to Sting
>> Edin is an specialized lutenist (one of the best around, I should add), >> and >> >> Sting knows about Dowland (and about singing) as much as many so called >> professional singers. >> > > These are all very vague terms, what is a specialized lutenist and when > you > say sting knows about Dowland, I would say he knowledge is mot very deep. > > In the booklet to the CD (yes I have heard it and it is "Junk") he says > that > Dowland wrote so many verses for Come again. Well if he would have had a > look > at a facsilile he would have seen that the last 4 verses are an alternate > text > and not to be sung with the first two. > > I think Edin is a specialised lutenist, he seems to have specialised in > being > as unauthentic as possible. > > Another thing I know know from a secure source that he often uses single > strung archlutes with a very high tension. There is also a video of him > using such > an instrument in the recording session. > > Just a last word I think anyone can use any instrument they want and play > how > they want, but when they go around saying they play authentic instruments > and > base their playing on research that is so faulty then this is not being > "wild", "experimental" or "open-minded" it is just selling something under > false > name. > > For a project that shuns the early music movement ability to know anything > about how the music may have sound it is extrordinary how many statements > they > make about how "authentic" theor performances are. > > Just a thought, lute playing was always an expensive thing, but have pity > on > the sting fans who want to play the lute, they now have to have a PA > system > and effects board to get the sound of the CD. But they at least save money > on > strings, back to the old pyramid days and you only need half of them! > Mark You know, Mark, I am reminded by an Oscar Wilde's dictum, something like- "It is common to commiserate with a stranger's trouble, but it takes a really fine nature to appreciate a friend's success." RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The last word goes to Sting
In einer eMail vom 09.10.2006 11:49:29 Westeurop=E4ische Normalzeit schreibt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > Edin is an specialized lutenist (one of the best around, I should add), and > > Sting knows about Dowland (and about singing) as much as many so called > professional singers. > These are all very vague terms, what is a specialized lutenist and when you say sting knows about Dowland, I would say he knowledge is mot very deep. In the booklet to the CD (yes I have heard it and it is "Junk") he says that Dowland wrote so many verses for Come again. Well if he would have had a look at a facsilile he would have seen that the last 4 verses are an alternate text and not to be sung with the first two. I think Edin is a specialised lutenist, he seems to have specialised in being as unauthentic as possible. Another thing I know know from a secure source that he often uses single strung archlutes with a very high tension. There is also a video of him using such an instrument in the recording session. Just a last word I think anyone can use any instrument they want and play how they want, but when they go around saying they play authentic instruments and base their playing on research that is so faulty then this is not being "wild", "experimental" or "open-minded" it is just selling something under false name. For a project that shuns the early music movement ability to know anything about how the music may have sound it is extrordinary how many statements they make about how "authentic" theor performances are. Just a thought, lute playing was always an expensive thing, but have pity on the sting fans who want to play the lute, they now have to have a PA system and effects board to get the sound of the CD. But they at least save money on strings, back to the old pyramid days and you only need half of them! Mark -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The last word goes to Sting
On Monday 09 October 2006 11:03, you wrote: > > I have if on good authority that the Labyrinth sales in > > Germany have already exceeded 30. > > RT > > There is an incredible amount of advertising of this CD here in Italy too. > Every morning after the radio news there is an extract of Come again sang > by Sting with the advise of buying the CD "in the best CD shops". > This is an interesting phenomenon: actually the quality of the music > and the quality of the performance are absolutely unimportant. No one knows > who is Dowland, no one knows what a good performance of this music is but > the name of pop star is enough to sell a piece of junk (IMHO) as this CD > like the bread. It is considered a musical event, while CDs recorded by > specialized lutenists and singers pass completely ignored! There is > something wrong in all this... Nowadays what sells is the name not the > music. > > Francesco > Not just music, art in general. The holywood productions sell by millions even if it's cliche crap, while quality productions of many european movies reach only a limited number of people. Literature (think of the millions of Da Vinci code books) and food dito story (think of the mc donalds food 'art'). As long as there is a niche for a group of people sharing their sensitivity for a better dowland performance or a 'slow food' restaurant, I really don't mind. taco To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Angelique (olim Another Theorbo Question)
>>> We must be very careful! There exist an Angelique in Paris (E. >>> 980.2.317, see the new catalogue p. 94) with a neck (not a swan >>> neck, >>> but also not a true theorbo neck - it's something between) who is >>> known from French iconographic sources from 1660-80. > > Do you mean to say that that instrument can be seen on several (!!) > > contemporaneous paintings? How do you know it is that very > > angelique? Or > > is it the kind of neck (on lutes, though), rather, that was > > portayed in > > 1660-80? > See the article Duigot, Joel: Approche iconographique du theorbe en > France, 1650-1700, in: Musique. Images. Instruments, n.2, 1996, p. > 182-183 Cannot see it. Not available here. And I don't speak French. Would you mind? Short summary or something, or the main thesis? >>> I know a Tielke lute from 1680 in Zurich (the label is disapeared...) >>> who was probably changed from 11-course to an Angelique with a swan >>> neck and then changed to a "normal" 13-course lute. > > Which evidence is there for that in-between-stadium as an angelique? > The wholes in the pegbox are altered and the now used pegs are very > small. Which proves that it is a 13c lute with very small pegs and an altered pegbox. So what? Any specific footprints of the angelique? Something like traces of a broad bridge for 16 or 17 strings? (To be sure, I'm not an expert on angeliques, just curious.) > Not all are really swan-necked! See the Paris instrument! I'd love to see pictures of that instrument. -- Best, Mathias http://mathiasroesel.livejournal.com http://www.myspace.com/mathiasroesel http://de.geocities.com/mathiasroesel -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The last word goes to Sting
Caro Francesco, Sad as it may be for some, different market laws determine success of a certain product, and its quality has little to do with that. Regarding the cd itself, I must say that I find your characterization of "a piece of junk" a bit too extreme, if not a bit offensive. Edin is an specialized lutenist (one of the best around, I should add), and Sting knows about Dowland (and about singing) as much as many so called professional singers. I've heard dozens of lute/lute songs cd's that I find terribly unpleasant, but would never dare to call them publicly a piece of junk. Of course, you have the right to do it. I don't think we should be angry about this cd' success. Let's wait a bit and see whether it helps to promote what we've been doing. I think that there're other seriously alarming things in cultural world to worry about. Have anyone in the list actually heard the full CD? Saludos, Ariel. - Original Message - From: "Francesco Tribioli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 11:03 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: The last word goes to Sting >> I have if on good authority that the Labyrinth sales in >> Germany have already exceeded 30. >> RT > There is an incredible amount of advertising of this CD here in Italy too. > Every morning after the radio news there is an extract of Come again sang > by > Sting with the advise of buying the CD "in the best CD shops". > This is an interesting phenomenon: actually the quality of the music > and the quality of the performance are absolutely unimportant. No one > knows > who is Dowland, no one knows what a good performance of this music is but > the name of pop star is enough to sell a piece of junk (IMHO) as this CD > like the bread. It is considered a musical event, while CDs recorded by > specialized lutenists and singers pass completely ignored! There is > something wrong in all this... Nowadays what sells is the name not the > music. > > Francesco > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
[LUTE] Re: The last word goes to Sting
> I have if on good authority that the Labyrinth sales in > Germany have already exceeded 30. > RT There is an incredible amount of advertising of this CD here in Italy too. Every morning after the radio news there is an extract of Come again sang by Sting with the advise of buying the CD "in the best CD shops". This is an interesting phenomenon: actually the quality of the music and the quality of the performance are absolutely unimportant. No one knows who is Dowland, no one knows what a good performance of this music is but the name of pop star is enough to sell a piece of junk (IMHO) as this CD like the bread. It is considered a musical event, while CDs recorded by specialized lutenists and singers pass completely ignored! There is something wrong in all this... Nowadays what sells is the name not the music. Francesco To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
