[LUTE] Rép : [LUTE] Re: Gut strings - Tennis-Lute love ALL
Dear Ed, Martin, Daivid, Ariel, and all That was very much what I tried to say to Ariel, a little while ago. Thanks for being so much clearer than I was, Ed. May I tell you an anecdote, I don't really know how relevant this might be for lute playing, however, One of my friends, is an avid lute listener, but also a tennis fiend. I have often discussed the merits of lute-gut with him, but until recently he kept his racket in synthetics. Last week, he told me triumphantly, that he had just had it completely restrung in gut. He reports it has given him very great pleasure, but that, at first, he needed a week to adapt; although he does not think it has made a major difference to his technique, he feels it is allowing him to be much more subtle in his game. Initially, he was slightly disappointed, thinking his strokes were less powerful, but gradually he realized the racket absorbs the vibrations from the attacking ball far better. He reports there is almost a slight delay in rebound, between the moment the ball hits the racket and speeds forwards again, and this he mistook for less power. I also notice something slightly similar when plucking a gut lute string, a sort of minute delay. A moment of initial absorption of energy before it is released, sometimes with a slight chaffing sound, like a consonant followed by a vowel (sorry, it is just the phonetician in me) ; but as Martin says: One of the nice things about gut basses is their vocal quality, not a question of sustain but a function of how the note starts. Martin My friend now realizes this delay and absorption of energy, gives him far greater control and sensitivity, thus the increased subtlety and refinement in his game. He also says that it is easier on the wrist and elbow. I asked him whether the sound was better, he laughed, but answered, almost instantaneously, that it was certainly much better, rounder, and deeper. He also confirmed that, just as for the lute, there was a cost for this improvement: the stringing cost him 50 Euros (far more than synthetics), and it only lasted a couple of months; also he noted that the weather did effect the racket's performance, more. Nevertheless, he hopes to restring and carry on this winter. Actually, I believed that gut was no longer used for tennis. It seems I was wrong. Are there any lutists who also play tennis and use gut for both? How do you feel about this? Is there any common research between the makers of gut for both activities? Regards Anthony Le 26 août 07 à 00:34, Edward Martin a écrit : Dear Martin, Best wishes to you... we have not corresponded for a while. I wholeheartedly agree on your statement about different string types requiring a different technique or playing style. I have not played wound strings in many years, but when I do play someone else's lute with wound strings, I am struck immediately on how one has to hold back and play in a much more quiet, gentle fashion, on the basses. The opposite is true of gut basses, where one needs to play a bit more forcefully (but not forceful), and perhaps closer to the bridge, to get the right sound. It took me a long time to learn to get a beautiful, clear sound from gut basses. I had to practice open bass courses for months, before I felt I had the clarity beauty of sound, for which I was striving. Once Hoppy sat down played my gut strung baroque lute, and I was amazed at how one of the finest players of our time had a sound that was very, very introverted - not similar to the sound he gets on wound basses. One needs to learn how to play gut, to make it effective. In terms of a gut string's beautiful sound depending on how the note starts, I totally agree. With gut, the note has a fast, immediate sound, without the twang of metal. Once again, what is important is the beauty of the sound made. Although I prefer gut, I would rather hear a lute played wonderfully on synthetic strings, than a lute played poorly in gut. ed At 09:55 PM 8/25/2007 +0100, Martin Shepherd wrote: Dear Anthony and All, Well I was away, in the Vendee, where the weather was not much better than in the UK. The local paper kept referring to it as ce vilain d'ete (sorry I can't do accents on the laptop) and I can only agree - we spent a week in Provence in May and it wasn't that good there either. I found the Purr'll strings sound fine. I haven't tried a Kuerschner top string for a long time, but the thicker strings are very stiff and hard, so I would not be surprised if the very thin strings were the same. I think all gut trebles have the advantage of longer sustain than other materials, so niceties of warmth etc. seem a bit secondary. The point that was raised about different techniques for playing on nylon/gut/nylgut I found interesting. The tendency is for too light an
[LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Rép : [LUTE] Re: G ut strings - Tennis-Lute loveALL
I can only give you an opinion understanding that I am not a Tennis player. You are to a certain extent comparing apples and oranges. Gut for musical instrument strings imparts a better tamber to the sound of the Lute, giving it warm over-tones that nylon can not. However; nylon strings are stronger and more resilient making the tone of a Lute a bit more crisp and strident, the very qualities you may be looking for in a tennis racket. This is just my opinion and my thoughts on the subject. There is probably a vast difference in the way nylon for tennis rackets is drawn than for musical instruments. Vance - Original Message - From: Bernd Haegemann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Edward Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Martin Shepherd [EMAIL PROTECTED]; LGS-Europe [EMAIL PROTECTED]; ariel [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Anthony Hind [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 7:44 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Rép : [LUTE] Re: Gut strings - Tennis-Lute loveALL Are there any lutists who also play tennis and use gut for both? How If you live in a place like Brussels, a gut-strung racket will reduce the joy of outdoor tennis to approximateley 2 hours per year :-))) When I was young there were only gut-strung wooden rackets. I remember many years later how Bjoern Borg tried to revive this, I saw a match in Hamburg. No chance! do you feel about this? Is there any common research between the makers of gut for both activities? In 17th century France there were also lutes and the jeu de paume (court tennis - there was a court in Versailles, for example. BH To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.8/973 - Release Date: 8/25/2007 5:00 PM
[LUTE] Transitional Tunings
Dear Luters, I'm trying to find out more about transitional tunings for the 10- course. I see that the Board Lute Book shows Harp-way, English Gaultier's, or Mersenne Extraordinaire, Harp-way Flat and French Flat. There are pieces in the Board book in those tunings, but I'm curious to know where else pieces may be found in transitional tunings. Are there other tunings also? Is there perhaps a modern edition available of pieces for 10-course in transitional tunings? David Rastall [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Transitional Tunings
Hello David and all, A graphical table with tunings about les accords nouveaux can be seen from: http://guitarra.artelinkado.com/guitarra/laud4.htm#anexo Best wishes, Jose Luis PS. An old thread on this subject contained an important list of books and manuscripts with pieces in this tuning. El 26/08/2007, a las 15:47, David Rastall escribio: Dear Luters, I'm trying to find out more about transitional tunings for the 10- course. I see that the Board Lute Book shows Harp-way, English Gaultier's, or Mersenne Extraordinaire, Harp-way Flat and French Flat. There are pieces in the Board book in those tunings, but I'm curious to know where else pieces may be found in transitional tunings. Are there other tunings also? Is there perhaps a modern edition available of pieces for 10-course in transitional tunings? David Rastall [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Rép : [LUTE] Re: Gut strings - Tenni s-Lute loveALL
On Aug 26, 2007, at 3:35 AM, Anthony Hind wrote: Initially, he was slightly disappointed, thinking his strokes were less powerful, but gradually he realized the racket absorbs the vibrations from the attacking ball far better. He reports there is almost a slight delay in rebound, between the moment the ball hits the racket and speeds forwards again, and this he mistook for less power. He was probably right the first time. Since power for his purposes is nothing more than ball speed off the racket, any absorbtion of energy from the ball or delay in rebound is going to reduce power. I think tennis players who like gut like it because the increased time of ball-racket contact gives them more control. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Transitional Tunings
Hi David, Some really nice pieces in the Panmure mss: numbers 4, 5 and 8. Wayne Cripps published some pieces from Pan 5. Rob MacKillop www.rmguitar.info -Original Message- From: David Rastall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 26 August 2007 14:47 To: lutelist Net Subject: [LUTE] Transitional Tunings Dear Luters, I'm trying to find out more about transitional tunings for the 10- course. I see that the Board Lute Book shows Harp-way, English Gaultier's, or Mersenne Extraordinaire, Harp-way Flat and French Flat. There are pieces in the Board book in those tunings, but I'm curious to know where else pieces may be found in transitional tunings. Are there other tunings also? Is there perhaps a modern edition available of pieces for 10-course in transitional tunings? David Rastall [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Transitional Tunings
Dear David, Chicago Case 7.Q.5 and the Gehema-Ms. (once published in facsimile in Leipzig) come to my mind but I think to remember something like a tablature sheet entitled Music for the lute in various tunings, too. Not sure, though (someone else will know better). Joachim David Rastall [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Dear Luters, I'm trying to find out more about transitional tunings for the 10- course. I see that the Board Lute Book shows Harp-way, English Gaultier's, or Mersenne Extraordinaire, Harp-way Flat and French Flat. There are pieces in the Board book in those tunings, but I'm curious to know where else pieces may be found in transitional tunings. Are there other tunings also? Is there perhaps a modern edition available of pieces for 10-course in transitional tunings? David Rastall [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Joachim Lüdtke, Lektorat DTP-Dienstleistungen Dr. Joachim Lüdtke Blumenstraße 20 D - 90762 Fürth Tel. +49-+911 / 976 45 20
[LUTE] Re: Transitional Tunings
Matthew Spring's book The History of the Lute in Britain has most of the info you will need on transitional tunings.Great book , by the way S.Salvaggio --- David Rastall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Luters, I'm trying to find out more about transitional tunings for the 10- course. I see that the Board Lute Book shows Harp-way, English Gaultier's, or Mersenne Extraordinaire, Harp-way Flat and French Flat. There are pieces in the Board book in those tunings, but I'm curious to know where else pieces may be found in transitional tunings. Are there other tunings also? Is there perhaps a modern edition available of pieces for 10-course in transitional tunings? David Rastall [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/
[LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Rép : [LUTE] Re: Gut strings - Tenn is-Lute loveAL
Bernd Funny, my friend was playing in Britanny (on the Norther coast côte rose) and you can't get much more humid than that, especially this year. When I go there my hygrometer registers well above 60. The strings have lasted him the summer vacation. He was worrying more about the winter. Well, I told the story more for putting a slightly humouristic angle on the question, but there may be things to learn from both uses of gut. The main thing is that he has been enjoying his tennis more. Best regards Anthony Le 26 août 07 à 13:44, Bernd Haegemann a écrit : Are there any lutists who also play tennis and use gut for both? How If you live in a place like Brussels, a gut-strung racket will reduce the joy of outdoor tennis to approximateley 2 hours per year :-))) When I was young there were only gut-strung wooden rackets. I remember many years later how Bjoern Borg tried to revive this, I saw a match in Hamburg. No chance! do you feel about this? Is there any common research between the makers of gut for both activities? In 17th century France there were also lutes and the jeu de paume (court tennis - there was a court in Versailles, for example. BH To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Rép : [LUTE] Re: Gut stri ngs - Tennis-Lute loveALL
Le 26 août 07 à 16:06, howard posner a écrit : Howard You may be right, about the speed (except pehaps the greater movement back gives greater power forward, I have no idea) , but more control, and subtlety is surely what we all want, wouldnt you say? Fishing carbon goes loud, very loud, but I am not so sure about the subtlety. I am no tennis man, don't even watch it (I have to admit), so I can only take my friend's word for it; but he tells me he has never enjoyed tennis so much, that seems the point to me; and the sound, he felt, was a real bonus. Best regards Anthony Le 26 août 07 à 16:06, howard posner a écrit : On Aug 26, 2007, at 3:35 AM, Anthony Hind wrote: Initially, he was slightly disappointed, thinking his strokes were less powerful, but gradually he realized the racket absorbs the vibrations from the attacking ball far better. He reports there is almost a slight delay in rebound, between the moment the ball hits the racket and speeds forwards again, and this he mistook for less power. He was probably right the first time. Since power for his purposes is nothing more than ball speed off the racket, any absorbtion of energy from the ball or delay in rebound is going to reduce power. I think tennis players who like gut like it because the increased time of ball-racket contact gives them more control. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Rép : [LUTE] R e: Gut strings - Tennis-Lute loveALL
Vance You could be right, I was a little tongue in the cheek, but my friend also says he far preferred the rounder warmer sound of the gut (as opposed to the crisp and strident sound of the synthetics), so that looks to be something in common. It may depend why you play tennis, to hit hard, or to enjoy the subtler aspects of the game (well, I am talking tennis, but thinking lute, of course). Best regards Anthony Le 26 août 07 à 15:26, vance wood a écrit : I can only give you an opinion understanding that I am not a Tennis player. You are to a certain extent comparing apples and oranges. Gut for musical instrument strings imparts a better tamber to the sound of the Lute, giving it warm over-tones that nylon can not. However; nylon strings are stronger and more resilient making the tone of a Lute a bit more crisp and strident, the very qualities you may be looking for in a tennis racket. This is just my opinion and my thoughts on the subject. There is probably a vast difference in the way nylon for tennis rackets is drawn than for musical instruments. Vance - Original Message - From: Bernd Haegemann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Edward Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Martin Shepherd [EMAIL PROTECTED]; LGS-Europe [EMAIL PROTECTED]; ariel [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Anthony Hind [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 7:44 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Rép : [LUTE] Re: Gut strings - Tennis-Lute loveALL Are there any lutists who also play tennis and use gut for both? How If you live in a place like Brussels, a gut-strung racket will reduce the joy of outdoor tennis to approximateley 2 hours per year :-))) When I was young there were only gut-strung wooden rackets. I remember many years later how Bjoern Borg tried to revive this, I saw a match in Hamburg. No chance! do you feel about this? Is there any common research between the makers of gut for both activities? In 17th century France there were also lutes and the jeu de paume (court tennis - there was a court in Versailles, for example. BH To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.8/973 - Release Date: 8/25/2007 5:00 PM l
[LUTE] Re: Gut strings - Tennis-Lute loveALL
On Aug 26, 2007, at 8:54 AM, Anthony Hind wrote: You may be right, about the speed (except pehaps the greater movement back gives greater power forward, I have no idea) , but more control, and subtlety is surely what we all want, wouldnt you say? Not if you're playing continuo in an orchestra. Then you sell your sell for an extra decibel. Also, the other players and singers tend to object when the tennis balls hit them. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Gut strings - Tennis-Lute loveALL
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Gut... Good for Lute.Bad for tennis racket. In 1970, gut strung Poncho Gonzalez tennis racket (from Spaulding) in the rain... 10 minutes--severe fraying; 11 minutes--broken gut and match forfeit. (only had the 1 racket.) The Other. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFG0cXQd9Z8S6c9YWcRAlkAAJ0ZucTbELSrhZKxZuGVEBQ92LasFwCgjRHF 82b5U9W5j/Ji/iWa9CPPRz4= =lm5L -END PGP SIGNATURE- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] What do you use for a strap?
Um, what do you use for a lute strap? The button on the end has a pretty narrow groove, so I'm not sure what to use. I assume you sling it around the pegbox, aft of a row of pegs. Regards, Jim -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: WinTemper
I've always used 415.3 dt At 06:17 AM 8/24/2007, you wrote: A lovely bit of programming, and a very good fine, David! One thing I noticed is that there is little or no data on absolute pitch accuracy. (He mentions that accuracy is about .3 cents, and shows how his A=440 pitch fork when cold gives 440Hz +.2 cents, but avoids the actual question of whether this program's A440 actually _is_ A 440, and to what accuracy.) http://www.tunelab-world.com/ has a tuning program which is meant for tuning pianos and other keyboard instruments. Tunelab97 has the following benefits: -freeware -can be calibrated (and has descriptions for using NIST tones, either by phone or radio, and a file that makes calibration this way easier) -can be fed temperament files, many of which are included in the distribution -has a phase-zeroing meter display, which shows the exact match of note to the target to a very small degree of cents (I believe, although I'm not rereading the spec right now, so I could be wrong, that a block moving the width of the screen in one second represents one cent of deviation) -allows measurement and calculation of stretch with adjustment to those results (which is very useful for non-harmonic overtones like pianos, but might be very useless for lutes) -handles any reference pitch (this is there because pianos currently in people's homes were built as much as 130 years ago, and might have been built to any of three or more pitch standards, but it has a much larger range -This calculation function also displays the strength of fundamental and overtones via bar graphs and shows the cents-deviation from harmonic for each overtone, which might be useful to someone studying the effects of harmonics on the tone and tuning of lute strings of different makes and manufacture -allows saving tuning files which include the reference pitch, temperament and stretch (if stretch is applied), so once you find out the tuning that works best with each instrument, you can save a file dedicated to that tuning for future use. I've used this program mostly for tuning keyboards, guitars and viols. I haven't tried it for lute yet, but it should be as serviceable as any PC-based program. There is no mac version, but there is a pocket-PC version (windows mobile) and a pro version, both of which have the same features, but are more aimed at the professional piano tuner. If you really want to throw money at a computer-based tuner program, the Reyburn Cybertuner may be for you. At about $1000, it has both PC and Mac versions, also for Pocket PC. If you don't have a pocket PC and want to go that way, they also have packages going for about $1000 plus the list-price for various models of Pocket PCs. Clearly intended for professional piano tuners! The major shortcoming of these packages for lute or viol tuning is that they are intended for chromatic instruments. This means, in general, that they will have an automatic next-note-search or next-note-sequence which will switch to a note within a chromatic semitone of the previous note (sometimes up to as much as a minor third away!), and can be set for bi-directional, up-only or down-only changes. Since lutes are diatonic in the basses and thirds and fourths elsewhere (likewise viols and guitars are a third and fourths) this automatic switching is not automatic switching at all. The up side is that they tend to correctly recognize the octave of the note they're trying to tune, so you can avoid, in the wild, tuning an instrument an octave low ( and then wondering why the strings are all flabby!) Anyway, if you find WinTemper to be what you really wanted, it's a bit of labor and no cost to calibrate it against a real pitch standard. Most countries have some method, radio or phone-based, of disseminating their accepted pitch standard (which should be A=440 to some ridiculous number of decimals), so playing this pitch into the computer will produce a reading that is the opposite sign of the deviation of the program's standard from the actual standard. In my short look at WinTemper, I didn't see a place to adjust the reference, but Tune-lab can be, so you can zero Tune-Lab and forget about absolute accuracy, or keep in mind that all the readings from WinTemper will need to be adjusted. The real test of these tuning programs come, however, when you have to adjust a large number of instruments to a non-standard pitch, in which case just changing the reference pitch (A= ) of WinTemper will probably do fine. This works as long as you aren't playing with someone who is neurotic about numbers, who will say, for instance, We're tuning to A=415, not A=414.5!, even though their A=415 tuning fork is an actual A=414.5Hz. This is the point where acoustics becomes psycho-acoustics, though, which is probably beyond the scope of electronic/computer-based tuners... ray On 8/24/07, LGS-Europe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you don't own a multi-temperament or even programmable tuner, and want to
[LUTE] Re: What do you use for a strap?
Hi Jim, I usually put 2 small holes in the end of whatever I'm using for a strap (old belt usually) and then use a medium thinnish dead string to connect belt to button with an elaborate tomato knot. Anticipating the nucular flame wars I'll say that gut works better since it holds its shape and doesn't want to back out of its loops. On the other hand, if you play a lot in the rain, nylon or nylgut might be preferable. I'll send you a photo if you'd like. Sean On Aug 26, 2007, at 11:43 AM, Jim Abraham wrote: Um, what do you use for a lute strap? The button on the end has a pretty narrow groove, so I'm not sure what to use. I assume you sling it around the pegbox, aft of a row of pegs. Regards, Jim -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: What do you use for a strap?
I don't use a strap, but I like the ones by Stephen Gottlieb for a few extra quid it comes with a very nice lute dt At 11:43 AM 8/26/2007, you wrote: Um, what do you use for a lute strap? The button on the end has a pretty narrow groove, so I'm not sure what to use. I assume you sling it around the pegbox, aft of a row of pegs. Regards, Jim To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Transitional Tunings
I can recommend Ekkehard Schultze-Kurz' book Die Laute und ihre Stimmingen but you'll have to cope with German. I can't really read German but with a dictionary I can extract all the information I need; after all a table is just a table.In it he gives tables showing all the extant sources of transitional tunings. You should certainly add the two Ballard publications (1631 1638) and Pierre Gaultier (1638) all of which have been published in some form by CNRS. Another big source is the Albrecht Werl ms (facsimiile by Minkoff). My spreadsheet list, which includes nearly all the extant sources has some 1800 pieces in it. Of course I haven't eliminated the same piece turning up in a number of different sources (e.g. the Mesangeau allemande on which William Lawes wrote his contrapartie to form the first duet comes in a large number of sources) but this is not a small repertoire. A complication is that I don't quite know what to include in and what to leave out. The standard d minor tuning actually occurs in the Ballard publication and some later manuscripts have a D major tuning (f# instead of f naturals in the standard d minor tuning). These occur in Mss long after the general acceptance of d minor a standard. So are they transitional or just alternatives? Good Luck Richard Corran [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Transitional Tunings
-- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Gut strings - Tennis-Lute loveALL
Well if you do insist on playing tennis with your theorbo, gut strung or otherwise Le 26 août 07 à 19:57, howard posner a écrit : On Aug 26, 2007, at 8:54 AM, Anthony Hind wrote: You may be right, about the speed (except pehaps the greater movement back gives greater power forward, I have no idea) , but more control, and subtlety is surely what we all want, wouldnt you say? Not if you're playing continuo in an orchestra. Then you sell your sell for an extra decibel. Also, the other players and singers tend to object when the tennis balls hit them. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Two Related Questions
Stephen I can answer the second question [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think you need th pay by bank draft; but I don(t know about the file. How do you find those KF strings (I lmean how good are they)? What courses did you use them on? How do they compare with the gut sound, nylgut, or carbon? Regards Anthony Le 27 août 07 à 00:00, Stephen Arndt a écrit : Dear Lutenet, I have been using Savarez KF strings on my 13-course baroque lute, but I recently I have tried gut on the first two courses. I have had no problems on the second course, but three first course strings broke at the nut after a very short period of time, (once after a day, twice after a couple of minutes). My string supplier recommended that I use a needle file to smooth out the groove, and thus I did an Internet search and ordered the file smallest file I could find, but it turned to be way too big. The company from which I purhased the file recommended a diamond coated bead reamer, which you can preview here: http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/CTGY/bead- reamer. My first question is: Would this instrument do the job? If not, can anyone tell me where to purchase the appropriate file? Second, I have been wanting to try Nick Baldock's strings, but have been unable to find a web site for him. Some time ago I did find an e-mail address, which, if I remember correctly had a .de suffix. I wrote him a letter of inquiry in German, but never received a response. Can anyone tell me how to order strings from him? Thanks to anyone who can supply me with the appropriate information! Stephen Arndt -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Two Related Questions
David Could you explain exactly what you do. filng this every day, does this not gradually widen the groove? I have always just used a graphite pencil. Best regards Anthony Le 26 août 07 à 22:07, David Tayler a écrit : In the US you can get a set of ten diamond coated hobby files for about $7 at Harbor Freight As well as the small size (4) digital caliper that fits in the lute case glove box for about $15. Several of these files are small enough to dress the nut. I dress the nut every morning, when I remember. dt To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Typos Corrected
PS If it really is just a crick in the groove, take an old overspun of the correct diameter (similar to the string that rests therein), put a little polishing compound on it and work the string over the groove in the nut. dt At 03:05 PM 8/26/2007, you wrote: Here is my most recent post without the typos: Dear Lutenet, I have been using Savarez KF strings on my 13-course baroque lute, but recently I have tried gut on the first two courses. I have had no problems on the second course, but three first course strings broke at the nut after a very short period of time, (once after a day, twice after a couple of minutes). My string supplier recommended that I use a needle file to smooth out the groove, and thus I did an Internet search and ordered the smallest file I could find, but it turned out to be way too big. The company from which I purhased the file recommended a diamond coated bead reamer, which you can preview here: http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/CTGY/bead-reamer. My first question is: Would this instrument do the job? If not, can anyone tell me where to purchase the appropriate file? Second, I have been wanting to try Nick Baldock's strings, but have been unable to find a web site for him. Some time ago I did find an e-mail address, which, if I remember correctly, had a .de suffix. I wrote him a letter of inquiry in German, but never received a response. Can anyone tell me how to order strings from him? Thanks to anyone who can supply me with the appropriate information! Stephen Arndt -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Two Related Questions
When I refer to dressing the nut every morning, I am referring to the one in the mirror. Regards, dt At 01:11 PM 8/26/2007, you wrote: David Could you explain exactly what you do. filng this every day, does this not gradually widen the groove? I have always just used a graphite pencil. Best regards Anthony Le 26 août 07 à 22:07, David Tayler a écrit : In the US you can get a set of ten diamond coated hobby files for about $7 at Harbor Freight As well as the small size (4) digital caliper that fits in the lute case glove box for about $15. Several of these files are small enough to dress the nut. I dress the nut every morning, when I remember. dt To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Two Related Questions
Oh you mean that one. So that was what was going wrong with my playing, and only now you tell me Anthony Le 26 août 07 à 22:14, David Tayler a écrit : When I refer to dressing the nut every morning, I am referring to the one in the mirror. Regards, dt At 01:11 PM 8/26/2007, you wrote: David Could you explain exactly what you do. filng this every day, does this not gradually widen the groove? I have always just used a graphite pencil. Best regards Anthony Le 26 août 07 à 22:07, David Tayler a écrit : In the US you can get a set of ten diamond coated hobby files for about $7 at Harbor Freight As well as the small size (4) digital caliper that fits in the lute case glove box for about $15. Several of these files are small enough to dress the nut. I dress the nut every morning, when I remember. dt To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Two Related Questions
Polshing compound is simply a mild abrasive or paste, It can be obtained at a hardware store or automotive store. Baking soda is justly famous in this regard, as is toothpaste.. dt At 03:17 PM 8/26/2007, you wrote: David, Thank you for your extremely prompt response. In your second e-mail, you suggested polishing compound, and I'm afraid that I must ask the same question. Where does one find it? It certainly seems simpler than using a file. Thanks again, Stephen - Original Message - From: David Tayler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 1:07 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Two Related Questions In the US you can get a set of ten diamond coated hobby files for about $7 at Harbor Freight As well as the small size (4) digital caliper that fits in the lute case glove box for about $15. Several of these files are small enough to dress the nut. I dress the nut every morning, when I remember. dt To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Two Related Questions
Ask your dentist. They have abrasive string for removing tooth enamel, for example, between the teeth. A kind of abrasive dental floss. It comes in various grades of sharpness. Some seem to be coated with stone fragments like sandpaper, others (still sharper) with chips of metal. ajn - Original Message - From: Stephen Arndt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 6:00 PM Subject: [LUTE] Two Related Questions Dear Lutenet, I have been using Savarez KF strings on my 13-course baroque lute, but I recently I have tried gut on the first two courses. I have had no problems on the second course, but three first course strings broke at the nut after a very short period of time, (once after a day, twice after a couple of minutes). My string supplier recommended that I use a needle file to smooth out the groove, and thus I did an Internet search and ordered the file smallest file I could find, but it turned to be way too big. The company from which I purhased the file recommended a diamond coated bead reamer, which you can preview here: http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/CTGY/bead-reamer. My first question is: Would this instrument do the job? If not, can anyone tell me where to purchase the appropriate file? Second, I have been wanting to try Nick Baldock's strings, but have been unable to find a web site for him. Some time ago I did find an e-mail address, which, if I remember correctly had a .de suffix. I wrote him a letter of inquiry in German, but never received a response. Can anyone tell me how to order strings from him? Thanks to anyone who can supply me with the appropriate information! Stephen Arndt -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Two Related Questions
Stephen You can write to Nick Baldock in English, but try both mails I gave you. It is very interesting to see the differences you have found with both istruments, but do you perhaps have your Baroque lute at a lower diapason, or would you say it is because of t string length differences, or the lute themselves, or perhaps the difference between Baroque and Renaissance techniques? As gut probably breaks more frequently on large Baroque lutes than on smaller Renaissance ones, it may ne just as well that the difference between nylgut and gut should be little on the Baroque one, but Aquila had a gut string that could out perform a nylon one, I believe. It is a pity it is not available at the moment. Another possibility iinstead of drilling out your bridge for thick gut strings (although NRI, explains how to do this, I think, and David will tell you that Pistoys are nevertheless worth the extra effort) is to try gimped strings by Larson? The gimping adds extra weight (Ed. MArtin can Tell you about that). Nick Baldock may also make Gimped strings, but I don't think so. However, if you can wait for (and also hope for ...), the new loaded Venice by Aquila (of which more in a later message), again the loading of the string leads to a much smaller diameter for a good bass string. I heard it today on Mimmo Peruffo's Baroque lute, quite something, I believe. These should not be confused with earlier type C loaded Aquila strings, they are a completely different and I think, a much more interesting string. Best regards Anthony Le 27 aout 07 =E0 00:27, Stephen Arndt a ecrit : Anthony, Thank you also for your quick response. The e-mail address looks familiar. Should I write Nick in English or German, or does it matter? I used KF strings only for the bass courses on my Renaissance lute and loved them, thinking that they sound very much like gut. On the baroque lute I am currently using overspun basses, which I don't particularly like. My personal opinion is that, on the baroque lute, the KF strings are good on the other courses but not quite as good as gut. Furthermore, I don't have very large hands, and my little finger tends to slip off the third or fourth course. I find the KF strings rather difficult to fret with that finger and am seriously considering stringing the entire instrument in gut, though that would necessitate redrilling most of the holes in the bridge, which I am somewhat reluctant to attempt on my own. By the way, after breaking three gut strings in a row on the first course, I put a Nylgut on, and though I noticed a great difference on my Renaissance lute between gut and Nylgut, I honestly can't tell much difference between them at all on my baroque lute. The tonality of the first course in Nylgut and the second in gut is pretty much identical. Thanks again your help, Stephen - Original Message - From: Anthony Hind [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Stephen Arndt [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Two Related Questions Stephen I can answer the second question [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think you need th pay by bank draft; but I don(t know about the file. How do you find those KF strings (I lmean how good are they)? What courses did you use them on? How do they compare with the gut sound, nylgut, or carbon? Regards Anthony Le 27 aout 07 =E0 00:00, Stephen Arndt a ecrit : Dear Lutenet, I have been using Savarez KF strings on my 13-course baroque lute, but I recently I have tried gut on the first two courses. I have had no problems on the second course, but three first course strings broke at the nut after a very short period of time, (once after a day, twice after a couple of minutes). My string supplier recommended that I use a needle file to smooth out the groove, and thus I did an Internet search and ordered the file smallest file I could find, but it turned to be way too big. The company from which I purhased the file recommended a diamond coated bead reamer, which you can preview here: http:// www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/CTGY/bead- reamer. My first question is: Would this instrument do the job? If not, can anyone tell me where to purchase the appropriate file? Second, I have been wanting to try Nick Baldock's strings, but have been unable to find a web site for him. Some time ago I did find an e-mail address, which, if I remember correctly had a .de suffix. I wrote him a letter of inquiry in German, but never received a response. Can anyone tell me how to order strings from him? Thanks to anyone who can supply me with the appropriate information! Stephen Arndt -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: Transitional Tunings
Ekkehard Schulze-Kurz has done all the work for us and listed _all_ sources with pieces in transitional tunings in his incomparable book: Die Laute und ihre Stimmungen in der ersten Hälfte des 17. Jahrhunderts. (Wilsingen 1990 ISBN 3-927445-04-5). Get it, even if you don't read German, as it's a massive list of everything you ever wanted to know, but didn't know you wanted to know, about all lute music in the first half of the 17th century correlated to the tuning of the lute. Anyway, the title gave it all away. The author almost gives the book away: it's cheap. David David van Ooijen [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.davidvanooijen.nl - Original Message - From: David Rastall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lutelist Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 3:47 PM Subject: [LUTE] Transitional Tunings Dear Luters, I'm trying to find out more about transitional tunings for the 10- course. I see that the Board Lute Book shows Harp-way, English Gaultier's, or Mersenne Extraordinaire, Harp-way Flat and French Flat. There are pieces in the Board book in those tunings, but I'm curious to know where else pieces may be found in transitional tunings. Are there other tunings also? Is there perhaps a modern edition available of pieces for 10-course in transitional tunings? David Rastall [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] gutsy concert
Just to let you know I've had a trip to heaven this morning. My concert with a gamba consort, half an hour of all-gut Lachrimae or Seven Tears was wonderfull. First half of the programme was Boccherini's Stabat Mater with Dutch diva Joanette Zomer and a (modern) string quintet. Equally heavenly. David - still floating David van Ooijen [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.davidvanooijen.nl To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Typos Corrected
Dear Stephan, These are good questions, and it is an age - old problem with gut trebles. We all want to use longer string lengths for the other gut strings, but specifically for the treble, it may need to be at a lower pitch than we use for synthetic strings. I do not know about what type of file to use, but I do have 2 questions: 1. What is the mensur, i.e., vibrating string length of the instrument? 2. At what pitch are you using? Is it a= 415? If so, the longest treble that will work, in my opinion, is around 68 cm. The diameter of the string does not matter, as some have tried using a very thin, i.e. .36 or .38 gut treble in attempts to lower the tension and therefore make the treble last. If you have any length longer than 68 at 415, you will have to lower the pitch. For example, if your baroque lute is 70 + cm longer in mensur, you will not be able to keep a gut treble on it at 415, as that length exceeds the upper limits of gut. So, if you are at 68 cm or shorter, the pitch f at 415 should work. If over 70 cm, try a = 392, a semitone lower. Then, a gut treble will work. ed At 03:05 PM 8/26/2007 -0700, Stephen Arndt wrote: Here is my most recent post without the typos: Dear Lutenet, I have been using Savarez KF strings on my 13-course baroque lute, but recently I have tried gut on the first two courses. I have had no problems on the second course, but three first course strings broke at the nut after a very short period of time, (once after a day, twice after a couple of minutes). My string supplier recommended that I use a needle file to smooth out the groove, and thus I did an Internet search and ordered the smallest file I could find, but it turned out to be way too big. The company from which I purhased the file recommended a diamond coated bead reamer, which you can preview here: http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/CTGY/bead-reamer. My first question is: Would this instrument do the job? If not, can anyone tell me where to purchase the appropriate file? Second, I have been wanting to try Nick Baldock's strings, but have been unable to find a web site for him. Some time ago I did find an e-mail address, which, if I remember correctly, had a .de suffix. I wrote him a letter of inquiry in German, but never received a response. Can anyone tell me how to order strings from him? Thanks to anyone who can supply me with the appropriate information! Stephen Arndt -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.8/973 - Release Date: 8/25/2007 5:00 PM Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice: (218) 728-1202
[LUTE] Fronimo / pdf file question
Hi folks, I tried to send a pdf of a Fronimo file to a person who didn't have Fronimo. They couldn't read the file because they didn't have the fonts in their computer and the free pdf making program I use (CutePDF Writer) doesn't embed the fonts for the end user. Does anyone know of a free program that embeds the fonts when creating the pdf file? I will send this along to the Fronimo group too. thanks in advance, Sean To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Fronimo / pdf file question
Also: Mac Preview often has problems with tab fonts. Sometimes switching to Acrobat or Ghostview solves the problem. RT - Original Message - From: Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lute Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Sean Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 7:01 PM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Fronimo / pdf file question http://pdf995.com Much recommended. RT - Original Message - From: Sean Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lute Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 6:56 PM Subject: [LUTE] Fronimo / pdf file question Hi folks, I tried to send a pdf of a Fronimo file to a person who didn't have Fronimo. They couldn't read the file because they didn't have the fonts in their computer and the free pdf making program I use (CutePDF Writer) doesn't embed the fonts for the end user. Does anyone know of a free program that embeds the fonts when creating the pdf file? I will send this along to the Fronimo group too. thanks in advance, Sean To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Fronimo / pdf file question
Sean Smith wrote: Hi folks, I tried to send a pdf of a Fronimo file to a person who didn't have Fronimo. They couldn't read the file because they didn't have the fonts in their computer and the free pdf making program I use (CutePDF Writer) doesn't embed the fonts for the end user. Does anyone know of a free program that embeds the fonts when creating the pdf file? I will send this along to the Fronimo group too. Sean, I use Ghostview, available here; http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~ghost/ You'll need to install a Postscript printer driver so you can create the initial .PS file from Fronimo. Gsview then exports the .PS file into a .PDF. I have used it mostly with Finale which also has its own fonts, but no has ever reported a problem reading the resulting PDF file. Regards, Craig To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Fronimo / pdf file question
Thanks, Roman. I'll try it and warn the appleheads I send em to. Sean On Aug 26, 2007, at 4:04 PM, Roman Turovsky wrote: Also: Mac Preview often has problems with tab fonts. Sometimes switching to Acrobat or Ghostview solves the problem. RT - Original Message - From: Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lute Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Sean Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 7:01 PM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Fronimo / pdf file question http://pdf995.com Much recommended. RT - Original Message - From: Sean Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lute Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 6:56 PM Subject: [LUTE] Fronimo / pdf file question Hi folks, I tried to send a pdf of a Fronimo file to a person who didn't have Fronimo. They couldn't read the file because they didn't have the fonts in their computer and the free pdf making program I use (CutePDF Writer) doesn't embed the fonts for the end user. Does anyone know of a free program that embeds the fonts when creating the pdf file? I will send this along to the Fronimo group too. thanks in advance, Sean To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Fronimo / pdf file question
thanks Craig, 'CutePdf writer' already uses Ghostview but wasn't embedding fonts --or maybe my recipients weren't using Acrobat like R suggested. I'll try it out on some folks today. s On Aug 26, 2007, at 4:07 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sean Smith wrote: Hi folks, I tried to send a pdf of a Fronimo file to a person who didn't have Fronimo. They couldn't read the file because they didn't have the fonts in their computer and the free pdf making program I use (CutePDF Writer) doesn't embed the fonts for the end user. Does anyone know of a free program that embeds the fonts when creating the pdf file? I will send this along to the Fronimo group too. Sean, I use Ghostview, available here; http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~ghost/ You'll need to install a Postscript printer driver so you can create the initial .PS file from Fronimo. Gsview then exports the .PS file into a .PDF. I have used it mostly with Finale which also has its own fonts, but no has ever reported a problem reading the resulting PDF file. Regards, Craig To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Transitional Tunings
Dear David There exist a printed book from Ekkehard Schulze-Kurz on the Accords nouveaux. But if you compare f.ex. the inventories made by Schulze- Kurz with the inventories in the Sources manuscrites en tablature you will easily see that there exist a astonishing contrast between the work of François-Pierre Goy (Sources manuscrites) and Ekkehard Schulze-Kurz. From François-Pierre Goy exist a wonderful work Les Sources manuscrites de la musique pour luth sur les accords nouveaux (vers 1624 - vers 1710): catalogue commenté. Mémoire du maîtrise, Paris- Sorbonne 1989. It's very hard to obtain it, but it's in fact THE standard for this topic. It's one of my projects to publish this work with the help of François-Pierre Goy as a PDF. But it's not finished... But I can send you a table with the tunings. They are classified by François-Pierre Goy with his tuning-numbers. When I find some time I will include all the terms like ton Mercure etc. with the quotation. The 6th course is supposed as an A. It's a open question which pitch the lutes had in this time! From the old lutes I think ithere were even more lutes in F (vieil ton) then in G in use for the French solo repertoire during this time. But the A is taken to draw a better comparison with the d-minor-tuning. The question is: When the lower ambitus leaded to higher bass courses? The thinnest string was more or less given - and the basses were a problem. So I think they tuned the basses as high the first course allowed. But who knows? And what's with the sorces with many different accords nouveaux with more and less ambitus between the 6th and first course??? Tuned they then the basses up and down or the upper courses? If you like to learn more about the sources: Purchase the CNRS- edition of Mesangeau. You will find there most of the sources for accords nouveaux mentioned in the foreword. Other editions with accords nouveaux of the CNRS: Pierre Gaultier, Mercure, Chancy et alia, Bocquet, Dufault. By the way: In the LSA-journal once the term Accord nouveau (singular) was used for the baroque tuning. That's really wrong. That's a translation of a German source (Baron) into the French context - a terrible mistake! Languages have her own context and you never should translate a term from one language into another language without a very exact knowledge of both languages. The guy who made it was American... Andreas To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
