[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Swanneck + loaded strings
Anthony, Talking about the proper choice of strings for the lute can be very difficult. It is a very personal thing. We try to find historical evidence, but we struggle to make our instruments to sound best as well. As far as the historical data is concerned we can come to some conclusions. However if we talk about the tone quality , projection, balance, etc. we enter a very personal territory. But it is even difficult to be a good archeologist. To be 100% historically correct one would have to change strings for different repertoires. Now, this is what MP writes on his page about early 18th century bas strings: In the 18th century, wound strings can be grouped into three categories, all built around a gut core (at least up to the second half of the century - the earliest mention of wound on silk known to date is after 1760): 1. double wound (i.e. a first winding is covered by a second one) 2. close wound 3. open wound (called demifilé by the French). Type 1. was probably used for bowed instruments with particularly short string length and low pitch (violoncello da spalla c.). Type 2. would seem to be the right one for the 13 course lute: but we would rather opt for type 3. upon an important consideration: from what we know about the metallurgic technology of the time it seems that it was not possible, at least in the common practice, to produce wires thinner than about .12 mm (see for example James Grassineau 'A Musical Dictionary' London, 1740 under the world 'wires'; see also the Cryselius's wire gauges and the 18th Nuremberg's wire gauge tables). As a consequence we think that it was not possible to produce wound strings for the 6th, 7th and 8th courses for the d-minor lute, even if we reduced the gut core to the point of completely unbalancing the Index of Metallicity and the mechanical stability of the string (faq 45). An open wound string was simple and efficient: by spacing the winding it was possible to come around the wire diameter problem, with one limitaton: here, too, it was the thinnest available wire that had to be employed in the production of the 6th string. What we are saying here is that open wound strings were not a transitional phenomenon, in the sense of bridging over the gap between all-gut and close wound strings, they were a clever stratagem that made it possible to come around the technological limitations of the wire manufacture of the time. So, MP suggests that close wound strings were in use at that time, but because of the manufacturing problems the open wound strings were preferred for lutes. Apparently we can see that the lute players were looking for heavier bas, but they probably couldn't use close wound strings as other instrumentalists for technological reasons. Now, one question pervades me: If there had been a technology allowing for the thin close wound strings to be manufactured, wouldn't it have been used by luthists in 18th century? I am not talking about the synthetic strings. Copper wound on any natural core (silk or gut) is 100% natural too. The only problem could be the unwanted resonance, but this I believe can be overcome with the proper playing technique. Regards Jaroslaw -Original Message- From: Anthony Hind [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 1:04 PM To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Rép : [LUTE] Re: Swanneck + loaded strings I just remembered that this should have been addressed to Baroque lute, sorry about that AH Le 2 dec. 07 =E0 18:29, Daniel Winheld a ecrit : Looking forward to these strings. Thanks for the report. Dan Dan Following my message to you about loaded strings in the context of the problem of controlling the resonance of the basses on 13c swan- necks, it suddenly dawned on me that I had given a false impression, by mentioning this string type in the context of an 18th century lute model. After rereading Mimmo Peruffo's text closely, I noticed that according to his findings this technology had been completely abandoned and could not have appeared on an 18th century 13c swan neck lute, nor even probably on a 13c rider lute, see the explanations at http://www.aquilacorde.com/lutes.htm http://tinyurl.com/2hj2sh Textual and iconographic evidence is given in this text/article above to confirm the hypothesis that Loaded strings could have appeared around 1570 and been used on 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th and 11th, course of lutes, and even on 12th courses of certain 12c lutes. See the red bass strings on this Dutch 12c lute by an anonymous Dutch painter, 2nd half of the 17th Century : http://www.aquilacorde.com/File0102.jpg http://tinyurl.com/yweurd (Indeed Mace refers to the use of Lyons and deep red gut Pistoys on the 12 course lute) However, from about the beginning of the 18th century, the German 13 course lutes could have been strung with the new open wound strings, such as those found on the 12c double headed
[LUTE] Re: Swanneck + loaded strings
Le 6 déc. 07 à 21:22, Daniel Winheld a écrit : Anthony, I read Mimmo's text carefully twice; (halfheimers, the brain glass is still half full) so I remember the different nuances of the different string specs applications- no false impressions created. Dan, I am sure many people did, but writing this down as a message to you had the dual purpose of apologizing if anyone had been lead astray, and clarifying my own ideas. That last is becoming more necessary, as time goes by ... In any case It's very good to know how all the different string types work- even if we go off by 50 or so years one direction or the other on the various lute-string combinations while working it out. My own 13 course rider thing (An ancient Bob Lundberg original; a semi/quasi-Hoffmann) has worn everything from snarly old Pyramids that sounded like a bad sitar to plain gut so thick you could use it to anchor a tugboat, and everything in between- including Lyon Healy harp strings, Dan Larson gimps, MP's first generation loads, and at this point the almost default position of Savarez copper overspuns w/nylgut octaves- possibly the least unsatisfactory compromise for an old lute that by present levels of excellence is not up to minimal standard anyway. One interesting product I've used for some time is the KFC (karbon-fibre gut) by Savarez- looks like plain gut embalmed in carbon fiber (KF) material, as they claim it to be. Sounds pretty good, very stable, but too stiff and thick past about 1.20 mm or so. Worked well on my old 8 course bass lute at 72 cm sl. Yes, I think experimentation is essential. Each lute (and each lutist) seems to respond well to slightly different stringing. If you don't try you will never know. Lutists and lute makers in past times may have been quite conservative, but without some experimentation, there would never have been any change in string technology. Quite probably different music types, even of the same period, might also work better with slightly different stringing and or lute types. Yes KFC does seem to be the best carbon type (or so every one reports). Even a purist like Jacob Heringman uses it on the 5th course in difficult conditions, but I thought as it became thinner, it also became more metallic (you seem to be saying the contrary, perhaps both extremes, too thick and too thin, are to be avoided). Someone recently told me that the overall effect is accumulative when you use a type of string. The more you use, the more the quality/ defect is exaggerated. Thus the more plastic you use the more plasticky the sound becomes, and the more gut you use the more --- y, it becomes (I don't really know what expression to use here, so I will allow anyone to fill in the slot, according to their attitude to gut). I could make a parallel with types of capacitor in a preamp. Some are insulated with various plastics, some with paper, some with mica, the material is clearly audible, and the more of them you have of the same type, the more obvious this becomes. In that particular case, I almost always mix and match to avoid any one defect. With my lute, I do tend the otherway, but that is a matter of taste and relates to the conditions in which I play. So it looks like we will eventually have access to mixing and matching (and mis-matching) all the relevant string/instrument categories in an informed and occasionally humorous ways. Loaded fundamentals with Titanium octaves on your six-course, anyone? I have one top string to try. Interestingly, for a synthetic, you need 0,47 to have the same tension as gut 0,42. This should mean a good finger/string contact. I will try to report when I have time to do the test. Although, I suspect one string will not have a very marked effect. One French lutist is using carbon mids and Titanium- Nylon tops. I am not sure what basses, or what octaves, but he reports that it is better than the previous material he tried. On the other thread, standard 8 course lute , it became obvious that there were several contradictory conditions and aims that lutists have to contend with, so each lutist just has to find his own particular level of compromise. This is bound to result in many different configurations and experiments, which no doubt are good for us all. Yes I agree with you, much variation is possible, so long as we know what we are doing (and what compromises we are making), and we don't fool ourselves more than is necessary. A little self fooling will always be present, and as you imply, the more serious we are, the more in danger we are, of self-foolery. It is never possible to completely reconstruct. The closest we can often get is sometimes a sort of metaphor, as it can only be a tiny part of the complete reality and its context. Nevertheless, to be able to try those loaded strings, which we see in that Charles Mouton portrait
[LUTE] Re: HDV In a Garden So Green
--=_8558484==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Yes it is too silly, but the window opens with a video and there is a play button, which you do of course if you have a very fast line, and right next to this play button is a rather abstract looking arrow, that is the download button. I hope to get the system perfected and then I can perhaps write a budget guide for people who would like to share videos. Currently the practical max is 720p -- the 1080p looks amazing, but the files are very large. The price for the cameras, etc. is now lower than a lute, which is a good sign. I find the high definition very helpful, I can see my mistakes very clearly! dt At 12:46 AM 12/7/2007, you wrote: How do I download from there? I haven't seen any means on that page... thanks, Peter ---Original Message--- From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]David Tayler Date: 06/12/2007 20.19.54 To: mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edulute-cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] HDV In a Garden So Green I've uploaded the High Definition version video in DIVX format to Stage6 http://www.stage6.com/user/Walvis2007/video/1922141/http://www.stage6.com/user/Walvis2007/video/1922141/ The best way to view this is to just download the file and view it with a DIvx software player, or any software video player--you might need the DIVX code which is a free download. Quicktime playback is not very smooth; VLC (for both Mac and PC) is the best. If you have a VERY fast connection you can stream it. The file size is about 125 megabytes. That's still a lot of compression, as the source file is 1.8 gigabytes, and it has been reduced from 1920x1080 to 720p still higher than DVD. Haven't figured a way to stream the 1920x1080, which looks pretty amazing. This video was recorded in very low light so it is a bit grainy but it is still twenty times better than you tube, and with stereo sound (you tube is mono). The you tube link has been changed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJLWU4VomHwhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJLWU4VomHw because the aspect ratio was not quite right, although it was slimming. dt To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htmhttp://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htm http://www.incredimail.com/redir.asp?ad_id=309lang=9 [] IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - http://www.incredimail.com/redir.asp?ad_id=309lang=9Click Here --=_8558484==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii html body Yes it is too silly, but the window opens with a video and there is a play button, which you do of course if you have a very fast line, and right next to this play button is a rather abstract looking arrow, that is the download button.br I hope to get the system perfected and then I can perhaps write a budget guide for people who would like to share videos.br Currently the practical max is 720p -- the 1080p looks amazing, but the files are very large.br The price for the cameras, etc. is now lower than a lute, which is a good sign.br I find the high definition very helpful, I can see my mistakes very clearly!brbr dtbrbr brbr br At 12:46 AM 12/7/2007, you wrote:br blockquote type=cite class=cite cite=How do I download from there? I haven't seen any means on that page...br nbsp;br thanks,br nbsp;br Peter br nbsp;br font color=#80i---Original Message---br /inbsp;br bFrom:/b a href=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]David Tayler/abr bDate:/b 06/12/2007 20.19.54br bTo:/b a href=mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu;lute-cs.dartmouth.edu/abr bSubject:/b [LUTE] HDV In a Garden So Greenbr nbsp;br I've uploaded the High Definition version video in DIVX format to Stage6br a href=http://www.stage6.com/user/Walvis2007/video/1922141/; http://www.stage6.com/user/Walvis2007/video/1922141//abr nbsp;br The best way to view this is to just download the file and view itbr with a DIvx software player,br or any software video player--you might need the DIVX code which is abr free download.br Quicktime playback is not very smooth; VLC (for both Mac and PC)br is the best.br If you have a VERY fast connection you can stream it.br The file size is about 125 megabytes.br nbsp;br That's still a lot of compression, as the source file is 1.8br gigabytes, and it has been reduced from 1920x1080br to quot;720pquot; still higher than DVD. Haven't figured a way to stream thebr 1920x1080, which looks pretty amazing.br nbsp;br This video was recorded in very low light so it is a bit grainy but it is stillbr twenty times better than you tube, and with stereo sound (you tube is mono).br nbsp;br The you tube link has been changedbr a href=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJLWU4VomHw; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJLWU4VomHw/abr nbsp;br because the aspect ratio was not quite right, although it was slimming.br nbsp;br nbsp;br nbsp;br dtbr nbsp;br nbsp;br nbsp;br To get on or off this
[LUTE] Re: arciliuto romana (was: New literature)
Hello David and Taco I'm not an expert on lute building, but if I made correct observations, the arciliuto romano has NOT a theorbo body. They are rounder and much deeper: Martinus Harz 1665 (Edinburgh): 43 ribs, belly 53.1x36x17 cm, string legths 67.3*/143.8 *= the neck was shortened; originally at least 71; 6x2 / 8x1 Martinus Harz 1665 (Geneva): 47 ribs, 53.5x36.4x19 cm, 72.9/156; 1x1 + 5x2 / 8x1 Antonio Giauna 1694: 27 ribs, 55x36.5x19.5 cm, 71/159.5; 6x2 / 8x1 Cinzio Rotondi 1699: 25 ribs, 53.4x36.2x17 cm, 73/162; 6x2 / 8x1 Josef de Carnitis / Cinzio Rotondi 1705: 25 ribs, 52.6x36.8x16.6, 72.8/154.1; 6x2 / 8x1 David Techler 1725: 15 ribs, 52.8x36.6x18.7, 71.1/155.5; 6x2 / 8x1 The pitch (chorista si San Pietro) was ca. 380 Hz. Interesting are the traces of the little fingr on the Harz of Geneva! They go from the normal point just at the end of the bridge and then BEHIND the bridge until the third / fourth course!!! Andreas Am 07.12.2007 um 12:48 schrieb LGS-Europe: Hoi Taco Or was the calculation the other way round? 71cm with a minimum string diameter of 0.40 gives an a of 380Hz? That was my underlying question, obviously. But I don't know about the prevailing pitch(es?) in Rome around 1660. My other rather glaringly un-hidden remark was that a theorbo tuned in g', without re-entrant strings is an archlute in my book (or rather, according to the Late Bob Spencer's definitive definitions). A 72cm archlute might be a fairly big one in that same book, but not impossible, depending on pitch/tuning/string material. A friend of mine has his 70something theorbo single- strung in g' without re-entrant strings, using synthetics. Nothing wrong with that, but what is it called, archlute or theorbo? Moot question for me, much more interesting is how to get the best out of a given instrument. An arcileuto romana of 72cm might be a very practical continuo lute, granted you can play in e' (and which lute player with a background in guitar couldn't?) if the people around you decided on 440 in stead of 380. In the 1920s these lutes were made as theorboed Wandervogellauten. History repeats itself. ;-) as needed, but next week 466! (don't tell him yet) 466, ough. Why do they make such decisions... Violinplayers almost never choose different string diameters, so they will like it too. The violins apparently will restring for this one. I will try with existing strings, as these are fairly low-tension. But Stewart's (?) tip of lowering one diapasson to unusable state is an appealing one. On my baroque guitar I think I will use a capo, although that is tricky in meantone temperament, as the capo provides a not so stable nut as the real nut. I actually like playing Maria Vespers at 466, it's bright and shiny. The cornetti and trombones are even greater than usual. And sopranos streched to the upper limits have an appeal I don't need to describe to you. David To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: arciliuto romana (was: New literature)
On Friday 07 December 2007 12:01, LGS-Europe rattled on the keyboard: Ivo and Lynda write that a regional instrument was invented from the 1660 instead of the theorbo: the arciliuto romana in g (without re- entrant tuning) with a string length on the petit jeu of 71-73 cm (a'= around 380-386 Hz). That is interesting! A quick calculation for the first string comes to something close to 0.40 gut (if I'm correct). That makes sense with today's knowledge/experience of string making/using that 0.40 or a little thinner is about as thin as you can get, within safety limits. Or was the calculation the other way round? 71cm with a minimum string diameter of 0.40 gives an a of 380Hz? Question remains how somebody would play with other instruments tuned at 440 or 415, if not a horrible 466 Perhaps by making a mental switch and think that your instrument is tuned in something else? Was this a newly invented instrument, or just a smallish theorbo, like many of us have today, tuned in g instead of a, like many of us do today, and with as few re-entrant strings as possible, like many of us have today? What I mean to ask is, is it a different species of theorbo, or just a smallish 'normal' one, strung to its possibilities? Philosophical question, perhaps; what defines a new species of theorbo? Anyway, interesting to see today's practises copied in the past. ;-) David - theorbo of 76cm tuned in a, with two re-entrant strings, 415 or 440 as needed, but next week 466! (don't tell him yet) 466, ough. Why do they make such decisions... Violinplayers almost never choose different string diameters, so they will like it too. taco To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Re:
What a pleasure it is to participate in a list with such people. We have three approaches to the forming of a lute body. We have three experts advocating their own approach (two of them the primary sources, David and Dan - and the third a student of the late Bob L.), and we have no argument. Some of you may have spent time on the lute list and seen the arguments over the number of angels who can sit on the head of a pin (is it a baroque pin or a renaissance pin). Dan's photos of his jig are good, and I think I see how it works. David's CD is my bible (when I get back to making my lute - my lady and I are in negotiation to sell her NYC Co-op and my NJ Condo and move to a joint apartment), and I think I'd be more comfortable with Bob's solid form as described in his book. A side comment on the above, the conjoining of residence will reduce our separate expenses greatly, and increase our space. Over thirty years together and we finally get a bit of sense! (but I've only been here in NJ for 12, used to be a couple of blocks away in NYC). I will get a 15' x 15' bedroom for a small bed and a large workshop (instead of having my lathe and workbench in a walk-in closet - and the rest of the tools in the bedroom and living room). She will get a living room to decorate, without my sawdust, and a bedroom next to it. I will get an attic to keep my spare wood and seldom used tools (as well as her twenty boxes of summer and winter and spring and fall - and should she go to Mars or Venus - traveling clothes). At that time I'll get back to my lute, and the clearsach carved harp I've planned, and the easy manufacture of my own designs for psalteries. I hope the deal will be consumated shortly, but there is a potential block on the funding due to her Co-op Board - something annoying I shan't explain here. Back on topic. I agree with all three approaches. I like Dan's approach of the variable jig - but then when I see the ego wall that David offers in his link I am awed (and David, the term ego in that isn't meant as insult - the ego wall is a standard US phrase for the wall of diplomas that doctors and lawyers (and some less qualified) display. You have joined another friend (that one a lad of 70 that I sang with some 55 years ago, and ever since each year) - his ego wall is the shapes of the boats he has designed - Rod's J-boats are perhaps the fastest class boats in the world in all classes, or perhaps only in most - and he does custom work as well - and all that as a Princeton Tigertone with a bit of a love of sailing, and a talent for design discovered in middle age. The Wind in the Willows, water rat like nothing better than messing around with boats, just messing around with boats. I can't speak for Bob, regretfully we lost him too soon. But David has already done so with the magnificent wall of solids and skeletals. And Dan's pictorial of his cutting jigs shows us the shape (pun intended) of his process (although I'm not yet clear as to the gluing of the ribs, is the last cut rib on the form - or is the jig arc put aside and the ribs contained by the frame). Whatever, there is a real dichotomy here between the beginner and the professional - and that is not meant to imply any choice between them. It is David's wall of forms that tells me what I should do. At my advanced age (72) I may make but one lute from a form, I want to make that one carefully. I confess that I'm a bit less concerned now having found a local vendor of good woods, my cherry ribs that I carefully shaved down from 1/8th after buying them from Exotic Wood a two hour drive away aren't as sacred ( or as expensive) now that I have my own facitity for resawing. I may blow those ribs in a practice test, and then make my own from scratch. LMI and Exotic Wood are the only two instrument quality makers I knew when I started. Now, or at least when I get the new shop set up, the only thing I'll need to buy is from a musical wood vendor is the soundboard (no way I can do the resawing that deep, I'm limited to five inches). I'll go for the Englemann, or German, guitar soundboards and shape them - unless anyone has a better suggestion. Should I live long enough to make lutes for sale (and that would require a number of years, not for my skills but as lutenists are picky about the reputation of the instrument), I'll try all three methods. But for now I think I'm going to be happiest with the solid form (although I might note to David that my skeletal, as per your instructions, looks pretty good - I might try forming on that first - in fact I should since I now can make new rib blanks - I guess I'm just in love with my draw knife and spokeshaves - and trying to put off the day of reckoning in shaping the ribs). A note on my work on psalteries and harps. I'm comfortable with the good laminates of Swedish Aircraft grade birch, or a five ply 1/8th of Sitka Spruce - the soundboard on those
[LUTE] New literature
Hello all Here are two new interesting publications: - Leutaro in Roma, ISBN 978-88-7575-092-3, Editoriale Artemide, Roma Catalogue of an exhibition in Rome, Palazzo di Venezia. Topics: The early mandolino (articles by Carlo Angelo Cecconi and Gerardo Parrinello) and the arciliuto romana (article by Ivo Magherini and Linda Sayce) Cecconi says that the oldest Neapolitan Mandoline was built in Rome by Ferrari in 1731... Ivo and Lynda write that a regional instrument was invented from the 1660 instead of the theorbo: the arciliuto romana in g (without re- entrant tuning) with a string length on the petit jeu of 71-73 cm (a'= around 380-386 Hz). Suirviving instruments were built by Martinus Harz 1665 (today in Edinburgh and Geneva - the Geneva instrumernt is exhibited until the beginning of february in Zurich, Museum Bellerive), Antonio Giauna 1694 (Rome), Cinzio Rotondi 1699 (Edinburgh), Hosef de Carnitis / Cinzio Rotondi 1705 (Milano), David Techler 1725 (New York). - Per musicam ad mundum. Historical Instrumenmts in the Collection af the State Library of Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, ISBN 978-3-935749-70-1, available on www.thv.de or at the state library A small, but beautiful book with the two Angéliques (Tielke and Fleischer) and other instruments. I showed the frontview of the Tielke Angélique in my book The Lute in Europe on p. 41. Greetings from Switzerland Andreas To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: HDV In a Garden So Green
--=_2630109==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed I recommend you try this player http://www.videolan.org/vlc/ It is free open source, and is much smoother than quicktime and all the other Corporate players for decoding video. Sometimes there can be codec conflicts, but the install should sort it out. dt At 04:14 AM 12/7/2007, you wrote: Dear David, I have now managed to download the video, but my DivX Player (v. 6.4.3) complains about a necessary DirecShow decoder, which I cannot find so easily. I have installed the K-Lite codec Pack, but to no avail. Can you tell me what I need to see the video? Thanks, Peter ---Original Message--- From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]David Tayler Date: 07/12/2007 11.30.11 To: mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edulute-cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: HDV In a Garden So Green --=_8558484==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Yes it is too silly, but the window opens with a video and there is a play button, which you do of course if you have a very fast line, and right next to this play button is a rather abstract looking arrow, that is the download button. I hope to get the system perfected and then I can perhaps write a budget guide for people who would like to share videos. Currently the practical max is 720p -- the 1080p looks amazing, but the files are very large. The price for the cameras, etc. is now lower than a lute, which is a good sign. I find the high definition very helpful, I can see my mistakes very clearly! dt At 12:46 AM 12/7/2007, you wrote: How do I download from there? I haven't seen any means on that page... thanks, Peter ---Original Message--- From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]David Tayler Date: 06/12/2007 20.19.54 To: mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edumailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edulute-cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] HDV In a Garden So Green I've uploaded the High Definition version video in DIVX format to Stage6 http://www.stage6.com/user/Walvis2007/video/1922141/http://www.s tage6.com/user/Walvis2007/video/1922141/http://www.stage6.com/user/Walvis2007/video/1922141/ The best way to view this is to just download the file and view it with a DIvx software player, or any software video player--you might need the DIVX code which is a free download. Quicktime playback is not very smooth; VLC (for both Mac and PC) is the best. If you have a VERY fast connection you can stream it. The file size is about 125 megabytes. That's still a lot of compression, as the source file is 1.8 gigabytes, and it has been reduced from 1920x1080 to 720p still higher than DVD. Haven't figured a way to stream the 1920x1080, which looks pretty amazing. This video was recorded in very low light so it is a bit grainy but it is still twenty times better than you tube, and with stereo sound (you tube is mono). The you tube link has been changed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJLWU4VomHwhttp://www.youtube.com /watch?v=pJLWU4VomHwhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJLWU4VomHw because the aspect ratio was not quite right, although it was slimming. dt To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htmhttp://www. cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htmhttp://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htm http://www.incredimail.com/redir.asp?ad_id=309lang=9http://www. incredimail.com/redir.asp?ad_id=309lang=9 [] IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - http://www.incredimail.com/redir.asp?ad_id=309lang=9http://www.incredimail.com/redir.asp?ad_id=309lang=9Click Here --=_8558484==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii html body Yes it is too silly, but the window opens with a video and there is a play button, which you do of course if you have a very fast line, and right next to this play button is a rather abstract looking arrow, that is the download button.br I hope to get the system perfected and then I can perhaps write a budget guide for people who would like to share videos.br Currently the practical max is 720p -- the 1080p looks amazing, but the files are very large.br The price for the cameras, etc. is now lower than a lute, which is a good sign.br I find the high definition very helpful, I can see my mistakes very clearly!brbr dtbrbr brbr br At 12:46 AM 12/7/2007, you wrote:br blockquote type=cite class=cite cite=How do I download from there? I haven't seen any means on that page...br nbsp;br thanks,br nbsp;br Peter br nbsp;br font color=#80i---Original Message---br /inbsp;br bFrom:/b a href=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]David Tayler/abr bDate:/b 06/12/2007 20.19.54br bTo:/b a href=mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edumailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu;lute-cs.dartmouth.edu/abr bSubject:/b [LUTE] HDV In a
[LUTE] Re: Old lutes...
Dear Arto I find my older lutes still improving, like good wines. The young ones still have much to learn and need to grow. So don't sell your older Barbers yet, if only because they might fetch a higher price when still older! ;-) David - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 11:37 PM Subject: [LUTE] Old lutes... Dear lutenists, I just found out that all my lutes seem to be quite old - from 1986 - 2003. The earlier ones were mainly made by S. Barber, see http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/mylutes.html Should I think the knowledge and skill of making lutes today is much better? Especially Stephen, should I sell your old lutes and buy new ones made by you and Sandy? ;-) The old ones anyhow sound still nice.. Bur severely, has the knowledge and skill of making lutes increased significantly in the last ten-twenty years? All the best, Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Old lutes...
Dear lutenists, I just found out that all my lutes seem to be quite old - from 1986 - 2003. The earlier ones were mainly made by S. Barber, see http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/mylutes.html Should I think the knowledge and skill of making lutes today is much better? Especially Stephen, should I sell your old lutes and buy new ones made by you and Sandy? ;-) The old ones anyhow sound still nice.. Bur severely, has the knowledge and skill of making lutes increased significantly in the last ten-twenty years? All the best, Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: transposing archlute
I believe both Doni and Mersenne wrote that pitch in Rome was considerably lower than in Northern Italy, though I'm afraid I'm no use at all in citing those sources. Thank you for this. I'm not sure where Andreas gets his information about Rome pitch Andreas wrote: The pitch (chorista si San Pietro) was ca. 380 Hz. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: transposing archlute
Dear Martyn Thank you for this. I'm not sure where Andreas gets his information about Rome pitch Andreas wrote: The pitch (chorista si San Pietro) was ca. 380 Hz. Did churches 'own' large lutes, like baroque opera houses had their own theorboes? If so, a pair of 70-odd cm archlutes would make sense to match the pitch of a particular organ. Just a thought. A great deal has been researched and written about pitches in various scholarly journals and it is by no means a straightforward picture. I don't think relating a lute size to one particular pitch is, in an historical perpective, therefore very helpful. Clearly archlutes (ie instruments in the Old tuning with no courses tuned down the octave) varied in size from the 50s to low 70s and to play in concert (ie not just solo music or vocal music with the singer(s) taking the pitch from the lute)) would almost certainly have often required routine transposition. Hence the idea of the transposing archlute: there is evidence for archlutes tuned to F (but probably thought of as G instrument transposing) so why not in effective E? Agreed. Eph Segerman at one time suggested that the larger archlutes were 'bass' archlutes in D, but there is no evidence of such nominal tunings or such instruments described in any early writings. From a player's point of view, a lute in d' makes sense as it is easy to play, considering it's not so far removed from g' in terms of what are easy keys. This is quite apart from the question whether a player would transpose (think of his lute as if in tuned in g') or actually read and think in d'. I happen to have a 10-course in d', and switch between both methods, depending on how complex the music is (I'm not much good at transposing from sight, but can think more or less in d'). When it's really tricky I write out a transposed bass, though. Still a lot to learn, then. David - tired and cold, but happy, after a rehearsal of Bach's Magnificat. To Andreas: I could play all! More on this appears in the archives of FoMRHI Quarterly. MH LGS-Europe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Martyn If I don't mistake what you're saying, you seem to equate the 'arciliuto romano' with an instrument pitched in E. I should be grateful if you could tell me what precisely do you mean by an 'arciliuto romano' and what evidence have you that it was pitched in E? No, no, I was merely thinking aloud. The instrument in question was about 70cm, a'=380Hz, tuned in g' without re-entrant strings, so a quick-and-dirty calculation came to a first gut string of about 0.40. If such instrumetnt would want to survice in 440 it had to be tuned to something close to e, if I'm correct. But I was put right by Andreas, who confirmed that period pitch in Rome was around 380. End of thinking aloud, back to archlute in g'. My query about this relates to two matters: - the idea of transposing archlutes various people floated many years ago (necessary if using gut trebles in an area of relatively high pitch in the 17/18thC eg Rome) and Or relatively low, as Andreas told us. - also to the small 7 course lutes newly made in Italy in the 2nd half of the 18thC (eg by Radice) which Tyler has suggested were in E but, in my view, were more likely to have simply continued the old lute tuning in G or A (as for example Dalla Casa). In both cases it would be of interest if there were evidence of an archlute/lute tuning in E in this period. I'm not copying this to the general list. But I am, as it is interesting, indeed. Thank you for sharing your points of view with us. Perhaps other people have other suggestions to contribute. David - Sent from Yahoo! #45; the World#39;s favourite mail. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Diapason strings in Sibelius lute tab
On Dec 8, 2007, at 3:09 AM, Eric Crouch wrote: I can't think how diapasons are notated in Italian tablature as I think I've only ever seen 6 string Italian tab. They are usually written as arabic numbers: 7, 8, 9 often with x for 10, ii for 11 etc. Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Old lutes...
Arto, Just because the lutes are old does not mean they are not good. I have an old 10 course lute by James Mackie, 1980, and it is very nice. I also have a 13 course Burkholtzer by Richard Berg, 1984, and it is one of the finest sounding baroque lutes imaginable. Are old violins not as good as new ones? ed At 12:37 AM 12/8/2007 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear lutenists, I just found out that all my lutes seem to be quite old - from 1986 - 2003. The earlier ones were mainly made by S. Barber, see http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/mylutes.html Should I think the knowledge and skill of making lutes today is much better? Especially Stephen, should I sell your old lutes and buy new ones made by you and Sandy? ;-) The old ones anyhow sound still nice.. Bur severely, has the knowledge and skill of making lutes increased significantly in the last ten-twenty years? All the best, Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.17/1176 - Release Date: 12/6/2007 11:15 PM Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice: (218) 728-1202
[LUTE] Re: Diapason strings in Sibelius lute tab
As much as I love Sibelius, the Tab is is a drag. Export to midi, and pick it up in Fronimo! dt At 09:38 AM 12/7/2007, you wrote: Dear All, Anyone got any helpful tips on inserting diapason strings into Italian lute tablature on Sibelius 5 ? The solution they give just doesn't look very good ! Thanks, Elly MMus Student University of Edinburgh -- The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Old lutes...
Arto If the Rauwolf is a key to the question, David is right, and old wood seems to go on improving. I was told that flat soundboard instruments can suddenly die, but the Rauwolf's soundboard is a few hundred years old. They can also be resound-boarded if there is a problem, of course, but it is not that cheap, I think. Then of course, there is the question of technology. Were lutes from 1986 much heavier than today? (wasn't the technological cut-off a little earleir than that?) Have you compared two instruments by the same maker side by side ( I mean one from 1986 and one from 2000, for example). The problem, I am told, is that there could sometimes be a big difference between two lutes with even one year or less difference coming from the same atellier. Apparently lutes are never identical, although some lute makers are more consistent than others. Neverteheless, if you like your lute, as much or more, than one that is more recent, why change? Anthony Le 8 déc. 07 à 00:53, LGS-Europe a écrit : Dear Arto I find my older lutes still improving, like good wines. The young ones still have much to learn and need to grow. So don't sell your older Barbers yet, if only because they might fetch a higher price when still older! ;-) David - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 11:37 PM Subject: [LUTE] Old lutes... Dear lutenists, I just found out that all my lutes seem to be quite old - from 1986 - 2003. The earlier ones were mainly made by S. Barber, see http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/mylutes.html Should I think the knowledge and skill of making lutes today is much better? Especially Stephen, should I sell your old lutes and buy new ones made by you and Sandy? ;-) The old ones anyhow sound still nice.. Bur severely, has the knowledge and skill of making lutes increased significantly in the last ten-twenty years? All the best, Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Diapason strings in Sibelius lute tab
Dear All, Anyone got any helpful tips on inserting diapason strings into Italian lute tablature on Sibelius 5 ? The solution they give just doesn't look very good ! Thanks, Elly MMus Student University of Edinburgh -- The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
