[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: The Weyrauch Prelude on Youtube
Period composing would be the term of choice, or so I was informed. Mathias -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Roman Turovsky [mailto:r.turov...@verizon.net] Gesendet: Dienstag, 23. November 2010 01:21 An: peter rauscher Cc: 'BAROQUE-LUTE'; Mathias Rösel Betreff: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: The Weyrauch Prelude on Youtube I am adamantly opposed to the term fake music as applied here. The Barchi prelude is real music, as is my own. Misattribution is a legitimate marketing tool with a long history. Fake music would rather describe Stockhausen, Cage, Furrer, Sciarrino et al. RT - Original Message - From: peter rauscher peter.rausc...@aon.at To: Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net Cc: 'BAROQUE-LUTE' baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Mathias Rösel mathias.roe...@t-online.de Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 7:12 PM Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: The Weyrauch Prelude on Youtube its not the first time luca plays fake music. in a concert here in krems some years ago he played music by composer witch I think maybe roman knows, called sautchek.in the programm you could read, he lived at the same time as c. ph. e. bach. peter Am 22.11.2010 um 20:59 schrieb Roman Turovsky: bersa888 is Gianluca Bersanetti, a fine neobaroque composer, whose music has been filmed by Barchi. Another lutenist, Daniele Caminiti has recently played it from the original manuscript, with the composer himself! I originally thought Luca Pianca himself was the author, as he wouldn't comment on it. RT - Original Message - From: Mathias Rösel mathias.roe...@t-online.de To: 'Roman Turovsky' r.turov...@verizon.net; 'BAROQUE-LUTE' baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 2:46 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: The Weyrauch Prelude on Youtube That's what bersa888 claims on YouTube what how do we know it's true? Mathias -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im Auftrag von Roman Turovsky Gesendet: Montag, 22. November 2010 18:43 An: BAROQUE-LUTE Betreff: [BAROQUE-LUTE] The Weyrauch Prelude on Youtube The investigation is over - The Weyrauch Prelude was written by the Brescian harpsichordist Michele Barchi, who we know from his excellent youtube videos. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0dHmUORzEk RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Fist steps on the b-lute
And also our old friend Giesbert, still available at Schott edition -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Namens David van Ooijen Verzonden: dinsdag 23 november 2010 8:56 Aan: BAROQUE-LUTE Onderwerp: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Fist steps on the b-lute On 23 November 2010 07:57, Hilbert Jörg hilbert.jo...@t-online.de wrote: Dear list, a friend of mine is about to learn b-lute. I told him to order Sedura-Yisraels method, but it hasnt arrived yet, so I am now looking for some other basic studies or easy pieces for the very first steps. Does anybody happen to have some copyright-free stuff as PDF or JPEG for me? Not for free, but not expensive either, is 'The Baroque Lute Companion' by Stefan Lundgren. Chapters on technique with exercises as well as translations of historical sources on technical and musical matters. And some 300 pages with graded pieces. Highly recommended. David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: The Weyrauch Prelude on Youtube
Some prefer that. The term HISTORICIST sounds best to me. RT ps Falschmusik wouldn't sound good in any language, I think. - Original Message - From: Mathias Rösel mathias.roe...@t-online.de To: 'Roman Turovsky' r.turov...@verizon.net; 'peter rauscher' peter.rausc...@aon.at Cc: 'BAROQUE-LUTE' baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 4:50 AM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: The Weyrauch Prelude on Youtube Period composing would be the term of choice, or so I was informed. Mathias -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Roman Turovsky [mailto:r.turov...@verizon.net] Gesendet: Dienstag, 23. November 2010 01:21 An: peter rauscher Cc: 'BAROQUE-LUTE'; Mathias Rösel Betreff: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: The Weyrauch Prelude on Youtube I am adamantly opposed to the term fake music as applied here. The Barchi prelude is real music, as is my own. Misattribution is a legitimate marketing tool with a long history. Fake music would rather describe Stockhausen, Cage, Furrer, Sciarrino et al. RT - Original Message - From: peter rauscher peter.rausc...@aon.at To: Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net Cc: 'BAROQUE-LUTE' baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Mathias Rösel mathias.roe...@t-online.de Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 7:12 PM Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: The Weyrauch Prelude on Youtube its not the first time luca plays fake music. in a concert here in krems some years ago he played music by composer witch I think maybe roman knows, called sautchek.in the programm you could read, he lived at the same time as c. ph. e. bach. peter Am 22.11.2010 um 20:59 schrieb Roman Turovsky: bersa888 is Gianluca Bersanetti, a fine neobaroque composer, whose music has been filmed by Barchi. Another lutenist, Daniele Caminiti has recently played it from the original manuscript, with the composer himself! I originally thought Luca Pianca himself was the author, as he wouldn't comment on it. RT - Original Message - From: Mathias Rösel mathias.roe...@t-online.de To: 'Roman Turovsky' r.turov...@verizon.net; 'BAROQUE-LUTE' baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 2:46 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: The Weyrauch Prelude on Youtube That's what bersa888 claims on YouTube what how do we know it's true? Mathias -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im Auftrag von Roman Turovsky Gesendet: Montag, 22. November 2010 18:43 An: BAROQUE-LUTE Betreff: [BAROQUE-LUTE] The Weyrauch Prelude on Youtube The investigation is over - The Weyrauch Prelude was written by the Brescian harpsichordist Michele Barchi, who we know from his excellent youtube videos. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0dHmUORzEk RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Antonio Gardane - Fusi Pavan
hi I have uploaded a short and easy lute duet for 2 equal lutes (Unisono) Gardane - Fusi Pavan - Enjoy it. Anton To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: EMS Lutes
Hi My first post, though I have been lurking for a while A year or so ago I bought the [1]EMS 7-course special . Although I knew it would be better to pay a lot more for a better one I had no idea whether I would get on with it at all, and there were none available for hire at the time. It was playable out of the box but tuning was a pain as the nut was awful and the pegs not great either. I have done a bit of violin making, so I was confident enough to make the following modifications: replaced the nut and lowered the action slightly, refitted the pegs, flattened the fingerboard which was slightly concave so that the frets were a little loose in the middle, replaced the nylon frets with gut and tidied up the carving of the rose. I also replaced the strings with Nylgut (apart from a Pyramid rectified nylon top), following advice from Jacob Heringman. The new nut is ebony and a big improvement but I think bone would have been better. The pegs are as good as I can get them but because of the small heads I find it easier to use a simple home-made peg turner for tuning. These modifications greatly improved the sound and the playability. The string spacing at the bridge is a bit close, though, and there is nothing I can reasonably do about that. Nevertheless it gave me a great deal of pleasure and I have no regrets about buying it. The case is servicable, providing adequate protection, but the surface is easily scuffed. Recently I had the opportunity to buy a second-hand 6-course lute by a 'proper' maker. This has a better sound and string spacing but still doesn't match up to the work of the best makers, either in sound or in price! (I paid -L-1300 including a Kingham case.) The EMS lutes are made in Pakistan but the shop does exercise some quality control and rejects the duds. For someone who is really strapped for cash, can't find a good second-hand deal or one to hire or borrow, I think one of these lutes is not a bad option at all and a lot better than none. If she could find one second-hand she would get better value for money. The Lute Society (uk) has an 8-course in the small ads just now, and I would consider selling my 7-course if she is interested - it is in Glasgow. HTH Meg On 22 November 2010 13:48, Christopher Wilke [2]chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote: I have a student who came to me with one of those Pakistani lutes that he bought on eBay. I'd heard many horrible stories about these instruments, but I have to say that for him it is not a bad instrument. It is certainly not the most resonant lute, but neither is it overly heavy or guitar-like. The neck is quite straight and the string spacing is fine. The action right now is slightly higher than I like, but its within a range that could be fixed with larger frets. (It's too high for him as a beginning student, but advanced players might actually like the action where it is.) All told, I've played low-end lutes by name makers that are only marginally better, but at much higher cost. I asked him if he did any modification and he said that he didn't know the first thing about lutes (his main instrument is bassoon) and that it came as-is right out of the box. If - and that's a big IF - I knew that all of these lutes are like this, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend one to someone wanting an inexpensive entry level instrument. I've heard others say that the quality control is low on these lutes, however, so maybe my student just lucky. Chris Hi all, I have a student interested in taking up the lute, but she doesn't want to spent too much money initially. She asked about the EMS lutes, unfortunately I have never seen or heard one before so I can't really offer she any advise. I was hoping anyone familiar with these lutes could comment on their quality / value for money, and whether these lutes are a good option for a beginner with a small budget. Cheers, Andrew To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.earlymusicshop.com/product.aspx/en-GB/1000586-ems-7-course-renaissance-lute-special 2. mailto:chriswi...@yahoo.com 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: tying two strings of different thickness together?
Right, you can not really see winding in the photo. What holds the strings together, actually, are the bulges at the ends of gut strings (when you burn the gut, it distends)- like in a well known way of tying a single fret. When you wrap them with some sort of thread and treat it with super glue, a hard sleeve is created, which does not let the bulges to slide through. On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 12:45:07 +0900 Ed Durbrow edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp wrote: I can't wait to try this. This looks like it could get another cm or so out of a string. The strings are overexposed in the photo but I guess you just put the two ends together and lay a bead of super glue along the common boarder??? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] frottole 1520
hi, where can I find/who has a copy/facsimile of Frottole de misser Bartolomio Tromboncino et de misser Marchetto Carra con tenori et bassi tabultai et con soprani in canto figurato per cantar et sonar col lauto. 1520? If I´m right it is preserved in Biblioteca del Conservatorio statale di musica Luigi Cherubini - Firenze. greetings wolfgang To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: tying two strings of different thickness together?
I have used super glue to splice strings overspun with metal. There were no bulges, but it worked OK anyhow. To harden super glue instantly, apply a mixture of baking soda and water to the glue. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: EMS Lutes
All, I think the real issues with student lute pricing is that very few take it up as their first instrument. The vast majority come from some guitar background and they will have already spent a fair amount of money on other guitars or other instruments by the time they get to the lute. I think my own situation is not atypical: I already had a bachelor's degree in classical guitar performance before I even touched a lute. Just before I graduated, I mentioned to my teacher how much I enjoyed playing lute transcriptions. He said I could buy a cheap lute for around $200 if I wanted to mess around with it on the side. The thought had never occurred to me and it hit me like a lightening bolt: play lute music... on a LUTE!?!? Needless to say, I searched for months for that $200 lute. All of the instruments on Wayne's page were hours and hours away from me. I wasn't about to send $3,000 to some random person in California or Spain. I really couldn't believe there was no one within an hour or two's drive selling a lute so that I could at least try it out. After a while I was getting discouraged and was ready to give up. By chance I happened across a big name lutenist online selling a 10-course. It was way more money than I wanted to spend and my fiance was a bit miffed, but, knowing next to nothing about lutes, this seemed like a sure bet. I have to admit, I probably had some stars in my eyes and this was no doubt partially a factor in buying this particular lute. I suppose it worked out for the best: I'm now almost finished with my doctorate in lute performance and she's still with me. I wonder - Would things have turned out differently if I'd been able to get a cheapy in my hands two weeks after I spoke to my teacher? Would I have kept up the interest with an inferior instrument? Still, who knows if the instrument with name recognition hadn't come my way? Chris --- On Tue, 11/23/10, Margaret Munck meg.mu...@gmail.com wrote: From: Margaret Munck meg.mu...@gmail.com Subject: [LUTE] Re: EMS Lutes To: Christopher Wilke chriswi...@yahoo.com Cc: lute mailing list list lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Tuesday, November 23, 2010, 5:22 AM Hi My first post, though I have been lurking for a while A year or so ago I bought the [1]EMS 7-course special . Although I knew it would be better to pay a lot more for a better one I had no idea whether I would get on with it at all, and there were none available for hire at the time. It was playable out of the box but tuning was a pain as the nut was awful and the pegs not great either. I have done a bit of violin making, so I was confident enough to make the following modifications: replaced the nut and lowered the action slightly, refitted the pegs, flattened the fingerboard which was slightly concave so that the frets were a little loose in the middle, replaced the nylon frets with gut and tidied up the carving of the rose. I also replaced the strings with Nylgut (apart from a Pyramid rectified nylon top), following advice from Jacob Heringman. The new nut is ebony and a big improvement but I think bone would have been better. The pegs are as good as I can get them but because of the small heads I find it easier to use a simple home-made peg turner for tuning. These modifications greatly improved the sound and the playability. The string spacing at the bridge is a bit close, though, and there is nothing I can reasonably do about that. Nevertheless it gave me a great deal of pleasure and I have no regrets about buying it. The case is servicable, providing adequate protection, but the surface is easily scuffed. Recently I had the opportunity to buy a second-hand 6-course lute by a 'proper' maker. This has a better sound and string spacing but still doesn't match up to the work of the best makers, either in sound or in price! (I paid -L-1300 including a Kingham case.) The EMS lutes are made in Pakistan but the shop does exercise some quality control and rejects the duds. For someone who is really strapped for cash, can't find a good second-hand deal or one to hire or borrow, I think one of these lutes is not a bad option at all and a lot better than none. If she could find one second-hand she would get better value for money. The Lute Society (uk) has an 8-course in the small ads just now, and I would consider selling my 7-course if she is interested - it is in Glasgow. HTH Meg On 22 November 2010 13:48, Christopher Wilke [2]chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote: I have a student who came to me with one of those Pakistani lutes that he bought on eBay. I'd heard many horrible stories about these instruments, but I have to say that for him it is not a bad instrument. It is certainly not the most resonant lute, but
[LUTE] Re: EMS Lutes
Here they are Chris, your 200 Dollar Lutes :) http://www.thomann.de/gb/thomann_renaissance_lute_8_15.htm?sid=9753fb3d0aa7c9b6ed40b37c1dab3d28 http://www.thomann.de/gb/thomann_renaissance_laute.htm?sid=9753fb3d0aa7c9b6ed40b37c1dab3d28 can't vouch for quality though! G. - Original Message - From: Christopher Wilke chriswi...@yahoo.com To: Margaret Munck meg.mu...@gmail.com Cc: lute mailing list list lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 2:45 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: EMS Lutes All, I think the real issues with student lute pricing is that very few take it up as their first instrument. The vast majority come from some guitar background and they will have already spent a fair amount of money on other guitars or other instruments by the time they get to the lute. I think my own situation is not atypical: I already had a bachelor's degree in classical guitar performance before I even touched a lute. Just before I graduated, I mentioned to my teacher how much I enjoyed playing lute transcriptions. He said I could buy a cheap lute for around $200 if I wanted to mess around with it on the side. The thought had never occurred to me and it hit me like a lightening bolt: play lute music... on a LUTE!?!? Needless to say, I searched for months for that $200 lute. All of the instruments on Wayne's page were hours and hours away from me. I wasn't about to send $3,000 to some random person in California or Spain. I really couldn't believe there was no one within an hour or two's drive selling a lute so that I could at least try it out. After a while I was getting discouraged and was ready to give up. By chance I happened across a big name lutenist online selling a 10-course. It was way more money than I wanted to spend and my fiance was a bit miffed, but, knowing next to nothing about lutes, this seemed like a sure bet. I have to admit, I probably had some stars in my eyes and this was no doubt partially a factor in buying this particular lute. I suppose it worked out for the best: I'm now almost finished with my doctorate in lute performance and she's still with me. I wonder - Would things have turned out differently if I'd been able to get a cheapy in my hands two weeks after I spoke to my teacher? Would I have kept up the interest with an inferior instrument? Still, who knows if the instrument with name recognition hadn't come my way? Chris To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: EMS Lutes
- And - they're in stock. This is quite an important consideration. 'Real' makers have long waiting lists. But the enthusiastic newcomer wants to get his/her lute NOW, not in 2012 (or 2013, or...). Delayed gratification is all very well, but how many people have that sort of patience? How many never get started on the lute as a result? All power to cheap, available lutes! P On 23 November 2010 14:04, G. Crona [1]kalei...@gmail.com wrote: Here they are Chris, your 200 Dollar Lutes :) [2]http://www.thomann.de/gb/thomann_renaissance_lute_8_15.htm?sid=97 53fb3d0aa7c9b6ed40b37c1dab3d28 [3]http://www.thomann.de/gb/thomann_renaissance_laute.htm?sid=9753fb 3d0aa7c9b6ed40b37c1dab3d28 can't vouch for quality though! G. - Original Message - From: Christopher Wilke [4]chriswi...@yahoo.com To: Margaret Munck [5]meg.mu...@gmail.com Cc: lute mailing list list [6]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 2:45 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: EMS Lutes All, I think the real issues with student lute pricing is that very few take it up as their first instrument. The vast majority come from some guitar background and they will have already spent a fair amount of money on other guitars or other instruments by the time they get to the lute. I think my own situation is not atypical: I already had a bachelor's degree in classical guitar performance before I even touched a lute. Just before I graduated, I mentioned to my teacher how much I enjoyed playing lute transcriptions. He said I could buy a cheap lute for around $200 if I wanted to mess around with it on the side. The thought had never occurred to me and it hit me like a lightening bolt: play lute music... on a LUTE!?!? Needless to say, I searched for months for that $200 lute. All of the instruments on Wayne's page were hours and hours away from me. I wasn't about to send $3,000 to some random person in California or Spain. I really couldn't believe there was no one within an hour or two's drive selling a lute so that I could at least try it out. After a while I was getting discouraged and was ready to give up. By chance I happened across a big name lutenist online selling a 10-course. It was way more money than I wanted to spend and my fiance was a bit miffed, but, knowing next to nothing about lutes, this seemed like a sure bet. I have to admit, I probably had some stars in my eyes and this was no doubt partially a factor in buying this particular lute. I suppose it worked out for the best: I'm now almost finished with my doctorate in lute performance and she's still with me. I wonder - Would things have turned out differently if I'd been able to get a cheapy in my hands two weeks after I spoke to my teacher? Would I have kept up the interest with an inferior instrument? Still, who knows if the instrument with name recognition hadn't come my way? Chris To get on or off this list see list information at [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Peter Martin 24 The Mount St Georges Second Avenue Newcastle under Lyme ST5 8RB tel: 0044 (0)1782 662089 mob: 0044 (0)7971 232614 [8]peter.l...@gmail.com -- References 1. mailto:kalei...@gmail.com 2. http://www.thomann.de/gb/thomann_renaissance_lute_8_15.htm?sid=9753fb3d0aa7c9b6ed40b37c1dab3d28 3. http://www.thomann.de/gb/thomann_renaissance_laute.htm?sid=9753fb3d0aa7c9b6ed40b37c1dab3d28 4. mailto:chriswi...@yahoo.com 5. mailto:meg.mu...@gmail.com 6. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 8. mailto:peter.l...@gmail.com
[LUTE] Re: EMS Lutes
I have an 8-course EMS lute. If I'd waited till I could afford a cheap student lute I'd never have got a lute at all. It was a factory repair so it was even cheaper than the usual low price. After replacing strings (probably not absolutely essential), nut (very necessary!), and frets it ended up being playable and total cost about the same as a regular EMS lute. It is not perfect, but it is playable and what mostly needs fixing now is my playing ability (which I am working on). A friend got a non-brand-name Pakistani lute, and it was pretty bad - the sound board was way too thick and so it produced very little sound. Even after considerable work it was still deemed unplayable. For anyone who is getting one of these lutes, the most essential thing seems to be to replace the nut - the notches are too deep and V-shaped so they are guaranteed to jam the strings. I was recently having considerable frustration with trying to get the instrument in tune with itself. Then I realized the frets had wandered slightly (trying to do some weird imitation of equal-temperament, I think). With the help of the LSA fret placement chart everything is sounding much sweeter! Stephen Fryer To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] EMS Lutes
Dear Andrew, If you are looking for a reasonably priced lute, you could try James Marriage. He sells a student lute @ £823: http://www.jminstruments.com/instruments.aspx Good luck, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Andrew White Sent: 22 November 2010 02:46 To: lute list lute Subject: [LUTE] EMS Lutes Hi all, I have a student interested in taking up the lute, but she doesn't want to spent too much money initially. She asked about the EMS lutes, unfortunately I have never seen or heard one before so I can't really offer she any advise. I was hoping anyone familiar with these lutes could comment on their quality / value for money, and whether these lutes are a good option for a beginner with a small budget. Cheers, Andrew To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: EMS Lutes
I can second that - James made me a lovely (plain in nice way) 'Hans Frei' 7-course. Nice clear sound, very playable. I think it sounds even better now it's four years old. (another) Andrew On 23 Nov 2010, at 14:52, Stewart McCoy wrote: Dear Andrew, If you are looking for a reasonably priced lute, you could try James Marriage. He sells a student lute @ £823: http://www.jminstruments.com/instruments.aspx Good luck, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Andrew White Sent: 22 November 2010 02:46 To: lute list lute Subject: [LUTE] EMS Lutes Hi all, I have a student interested in taking up the lute, but she doesn't want to spent too much money initially. She asked about the EMS lutes, unfortunately I have never seen or heard one before so I can't really offer she any advise. I was hoping anyone familiar with these lutes could comment on their quality / value for money, and whether these lutes are a good option for a beginner with a small budget. Cheers, Andrew To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: The Weyrauch Prelude on Youtube
Falschmusik wouldn't sound good in any language, I think. I thought THAT was musica ficta ;-) B To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: tying two strings together (in process of changing from 407Hz to 392)?
Dear All, I suppose I should add an explanation for why I need this gluing technique. I have always regretted that my Baroque lute was strung for 415Hz rather than for 392 (for which I had actually asked my lute maker, but he had forgotten this). The main reason for 392 would have been to achieve thicker trebles for my 700mm lute, allowing the fingers to dig more deeply into these strings. Diapason 392 could allow f1:0.46, d2:0.54, and A3:0.64 (instead of f1:0.42, d-2:0.50 and A3:0.58 at 415Hz). Historic arguments in favour of this, for the French Baroque lute, might be the relatively small diapason of historic French lutes (around 68 according to Martyn, and others), which would imply relatively thick trebles, unless the diapason pitch was above 415Hz. I rather assume this is part of the French aesthetic. What do you think? $ I managed to lower the diapason to 407 (and slightly raise the top string tensions); this was the lowest point at which these loaded strings would work well (I kept the original tension by simulataneously raising the tension of the octaves). I believed the original tension on the basses was 3Kg and on the octaves 2K8 (as indicated by my lutemaker). I therefore thought that after lowering to 407 and changing the octaves to 3K1 for that frequency, I would maintain the lutemakers suggested tension, but have 2K9 on the basses and 3K1 on the octaves (I roughly confirmed this with Dan Larson's string calculator). However, I did notice that the Venice Octaves were clearly now the lead voice, which I felt was highly desirable, but which did not quite fit in with the small difference of tension. Also Martin Shepherd told me that 2K9 was quite high tension on the basses. However, this was not at all how they felt, but I just put that down to the flexibility of the loaded basses. $ Recently, however, I wondered whether I could achieve 392 with basses close to 2K9 by moving C11 to D10 and D10 to E9, and so forth (in other words by a simple shift of each string up one). I did fear I might get a more irregular tension pattern, and also that the tension might be too high. $ At this point, I played around with Arto's string calculator, and finally understood how it worked (I am a little computer programme challenged, and previously gave up when not quite understanding which field corresponded to what parameter) . With Arto's calculator now uderstood, I was able to set the diapason explicitly to 407Hz and remove the guess work. I was surprised to find my basses at 407Hz were actually at a lowish 2K7 (taking account of true thickness of the flexible loaded Venices by dividing their value by 1.07, as explained by Mimmo on the Venice string page). Dropping them to diapason 392 (according to Arto-calc would bring them effectively to around the 2K9, I thought I had originally. I believed this would be acceptable, although I could still drop the diapason slightly to 380Hz or so to compensate if necessary. I would of course have to change most of the other strings, but I didn't want to throw out my expensive and well worn in loaded basses (unless they prove already to be a little too old, I have had them 2 years or more?) $ Anyway I thought I could use these, at least, to check the resulting values would work well at 392 with 2K9 tension. I made just one check by tuning the C11 string D10 at 392Hz, and it seemed acceptable, so I think I can go ahead with the experiment. $ I then remembered that as my loaded strings had been cut very short to prevent them rubbing against the decorative panel of the peg-box. I might need to lengthen some loaded basses and perhaps some Venice octaves to reach the peg two above, which is why I have asked for your knotting advice. Thank you everyone for your help. I will of course need at least one new loaded string for C11 to carry out the experiment. $ I am just wondering whether other loaded gut users have tensions around my target 2K9, higher or lower? 2K7 did work alright, I must admit. Do most of you try to lower your basses by compensating with higher tension octaves (or are they the same, or lower)? Do most pure and gimped gut users have basses around 2K5 (Dan Larson), lower (Satoh), or higher? $ Practical considerations: I am aware that pure gut string users will probably consider 2K9 as a high tension. Dan Larson's standard is 2K5, but this is for pure gut, no doubt to compensate for its natural thickness (and inharmonicity, or high impedance, at high tension), and also to account for the relative stiffness of Dan's gimped strings. With loaded Venice strings the flexibility, especially for the lower basses, is even greater than that of a Venice (as the core is relatively thin, the weight determined
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Post French and Pre Weiss: what shall we call it?
How about just calling it late 11-course literature? ...just a thought: inclusive of anything up to and including Kellner, exclusive of 13 course literature (which encompasses most Galant?) trj -Original Message- From: Daniel Shoskes dshos...@mac.com To: BAROQUE-LUTE baroque-l...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sun, Sep 12, 2010 8:37 am Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Post French and Pre Weiss: what shall we call it? Having spent much happy time on my 11 course lute playing the music of Reusner, Conradi, Kellner, Weichenberger and St. Luc, it dawns on me that we don't really have a good descriptor for the period. It is after the French precieux and Brise styles (but has some elements), brings in more of a cantabile Italian relationship between melody and bass line but doesn't go all the way to the Gallant emphasis on melody (I am sure I have made many a musicologist cringe with my oversimplifications here). Many recordings that include pieces from the period are titled German Baroque Lute Music, or something similar, but that of course doesn't give a fair geographic representation to the Czech, Silesian, Swedish and Belgian composers. Transitional would be a good descriptive term but alas has already been coapted by those funny tuning systems between Renaissance and d minor. Any ideas? Danny To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: fret tying help
On Nov 23, 2010, at 9:01 AM, Suzanne Angevine wrote: Here are my questions from that attempt. How do you get any sort of knot to tighten up with such a stiff, unpliable material? Should the place where the knot is going to be be worked to loosen it first? You can tie and burn the knot in a lower position, then slide it up the neck to tighten the fret. i.e. do all the work for your third fret in second fret position, then slide it up. Or you can pull the fret tight with a plier. And how do you really get that nice melted lump on the ends? I read that a soldering iron is safer than matches or a lighter, and that is what we tried. But in all cases (iron or lighter) the gut seems more likely to burn or char than melt into a nice lump. Its clear that these knots really only hold well because the lump won't go through the knot, so the quality of the lump seems important. Any tips on getting a nice, melted lump instead of a rough, charred end? It's always going to be charred at the end because you're burning it. I've never had any trouble getting a desired lump; maybe you're not letting it burn long enough. It's not brain surgery. Just set the match to the gut until it swells, then blow it out. Don't be afraid; six times out of ten the lute doesn't catch fire. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: fret tying help
For me, the simplest knot is just to do one loop in one end of the gut, pulling it into a rather small loop, and bring the other end of the gut over the fingerboard and under the strings - from treble to bass - and through the loop. Keeping the gut at least one fret above where you eventually want it, pull that end tight with pliers, trying to get the loop fairly close to the edge of the fingerboard. Usually, it will hold tight but you may need to keep a finger on it to keep it from slipping while you cut off the extra gut and then burn both ends with a soldering gun. Then slide the fret down into position. With really stiff gut, the loop may not tighten sufficiently simply from pulling the other end, so two pair of pliers may be need, pulling on both ends. Certainly, care is needed with soldering gun. But with a little practice the procedure will seem less daunting. There are no doubt some on line sites that illustrate this procedure, or describe it better than I did. Good luck. On Nov 23, 2010, at 12:01 PM, Suzanne Angevine wrote: My lute has needed some new frets for a longish time, and I've been putting it off. Got the fret gut maybe 6 months ago. Well, I decided I must do it. I looked at all the different knots people suggest, and decided what to try. But the first attempt went badly enough to justify my fear and putting it off. Here are my questions from that attempt. How do you get any sort of knot to tighten up with such a stiff, unpliable material? Should the place where the knot is going to be be worked to loosen it first? And how do you really get that nice melted lump on the ends? I read that a soldering iron is safer than matches or a lighter, and that is what we tried. But in all cases (iron or lighter) the gut seems more likely to burn or char than melt into a nice lump. Its clear that these knots really only hold well because the lump won't go through the knot, so the quality of the lump seems important. Any tips on getting a nice, melted lump instead of a rough, charred end? Thanks in advance. Suzanne To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: fret tying help
Take a piece of Fretgut--I use Pyramid fretgut--or the right thickness gut string. Create one loop or half hitch near the end Shimmy the knot down to the end of the string, and leave just enough space--a little hole, sort of-- for the other end (later) to go through NB: This is a slip knot, which is what you want. You want it to slip. Burn the stub end with a soldering iron or match to make a mushroom end. Be carefull. Placing the half-knot on the back of the fingerboard, two thirds of the way up (towards the bass side) and run the long end around--(under the strings, DOH!) and through the little space in the knot you left. The inserted string will slide easily through the hole you made, and you want to make that string do a 180 turn eventually. Pressing the knot with the thumb, pull hard upwards. Hold don the fret with the fingers of the same hand on the fingerboard side. The knot will slide and the fret will become tight. The harder you pull, the tighter it gets. Make sure the string is about one fret from where it will end up. Cut the long end, leaving 4mm stub, then burn or heat the end untill it is flush with the knot. Don't burn the knot. Move the fret up I use a lighter, but for finer control use a pencil type soldering iron, available on eBay for $5 There are many other knots you can use, but this one gets the first fret super tight. Also, you don't need to cut the fret till you are done. The harder you pull, the less the knot slides--it is adjustable. dt At 09:01 AM 11/23/2010, you wrote: My lute has needed some new frets for a longish time, and I've been putting it off. Got the fret gut maybe 6 months ago. Well, I decided I must do it. I looked at all the different knots people suggest, and decided what to try. But the first attempt went badly enough to justify my fear and putting it off. Here are my questions from that attempt. How do you get any sort of knot to tighten up with such a stiff, unpliable material? Should the place where the knot is going to be be worked to loosen it first? And how do you really get that nice melted lump on the ends? I read that a soldering iron is safer than matches or a lighter, and that is what we tried. But in all cases (iron or lighter) the gut seems more likely to burn or char than melt into a nice lump. Its clear that these knots really only hold well because the lump won't go through the knot, so the quality of the lump seems important. Any tips on getting a nice, melted lump instead of a rough, charred end? Thanks in advance. Suzanne To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: fret tying help
All this sounds right as rain. For a burning tool I use a non-sharp knife with the tip of the blade on the stove heating element (electric or gas work equally well). Your work table should be close by. On Nov 23, 2010, at 1:51 PM, David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Take a piece of Fretgut--I use Pyramid fretgut--or the right thickness gut string. Create one loop or half hitch near the end Shimmy the knot down to the end of the string, and leave just enough space--a little hole, sort of-- for the other end (later) to go through NB: This is a slip knot, which is what you want. You want it to slip. Burn the stub end with a soldering iron or match to make a mushroom end. Be carefull. Placing the half-knot on the back of the fingerboard, two thirds of the way up (towards the bass side) and run the long end around--(under the strings, DOH!) and through the little space in the knot you left. The inserted string will slide easily through the hole you made, and you want to make that string do a 180 turn eventually. Pressing the knot with the thumb, pull hard upwards. Hold don the fret with the fingers of the same hand on the fingerboard side. The knot will slide and the fret will become tight. The harder you pull, the tighter it gets. Make sure the string is about one fret from where it will end up. Cut the long end, leaving 4mm stub, then burn or heat the end untill it is flush with the knot. Don't burn the knot. Move the fret up I use a lighter, but for finer control use a pencil type soldering iron, available on eBay for $5 There are many other knots you can use, but this one gets the first fret super tight. Also, you don't need to cut the fret till you are done. The harder you pull, the less the knot slides--it is adjustable. dt At 09:01 AM 11/23/2010, you wrote: My lute has needed some new frets for a longish time, and I've been putting it off. Got the fret gut maybe 6 months ago. Well, I decided I must do it. I looked at all the different knots people suggest, and decided what to try. But the first attempt went badly enough to justify my fear and putting it off. Here are my questions from that attempt. How do you get any sort of knot to tighten up with such a stiff, unpliable material? Should the place where the knot is going to be be worked to loosen it first? And how do you really get that nice melted lump on the ends? I read that a soldering iron is safer than matches or a lighter, and that is what we tried. But in all cases (iron or lighter) the gut seems more likely to burn or char than melt into a nice lump. Its clear that these knots really only hold well because the lump won't go through the knot, so the quality of the lump seems important. Any tips on getting a nice, melted lump instead of a rough, charred end? Thanks in advance. Suzanne To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: fret tying help
And now, no doubt, your audience will expect the pyrotechnics every time. Something similar happend to Hendrix. I have been enjoying all the tips and have archived them for future use. m __ From: David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tue, November 23, 2010 6:03:03 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: fret tying help On 23 November 2010 22:51, David Tayler [1]vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote: NB: This is a slip knot, which is what you want. You want it to slip. The harder you pull, the less the knot slides--it is adjustable. Yep, that's the idea. I had a broken fourth fret on my theorbo during a concert with a singer two (three?) weeks ago. I took the fret out (buzzing!) and continued the song till the end. I was quite proud of having pulled that off, but nobody had noticed. Not even the singer or the people on the front row. For the rets of the programme till the break I picked up my baroque guitar. During the break I asked for a lighter and gave a fret tying demonstration (without burning my diapassons). Still nobody was impressed, they all thought it was part of the show, like tuning ... ;-) David -- *** David van Ooijen [2]davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:vidan...@sbcglobal.net 2. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Ernesto Quezada on Youtube
A friend who studied with Ernesto Quezada in Chile was visiting Ohio this weekend. He was kind enough to point me to some fine concert recordings of Ernesto performing on lute, vihuela, and 4-course guitar made throughout the 1980s and posted to Youtube. Check them out: [1]http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Ernesto+Quezadaaq=f Best, Eugene -- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Ernesto+Quezadaaq=f To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Cantio Ruthenica CXXXIII
For those who like forbidden intervals - http://www.torban.org/ruthenicae/images/292g.pdf http://www.torban.org/ruthenicae/audio/292gL.mp3 Enjoy. Amitiés, RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
