[LUTE] Re: Renaissance/Medieval Fairs
Two years ago I was hired by the Disney Channel to appear in an episode of Andi Mack. In the episode the stars go to a big Ren Faire and they needed a lute player. I was a featured extra so I had my own dressing room. I brought 2 lutes (a six course and a 15 course attiorbatto). Not surprisingly the director chose the 15 course attiorbatto to be in the episode. (He said the six course looked silly compared to the 15 course). I was in a bunch of scenes and it was quite fun. The staged Ren Faire was interesting. After that exposure I was hired on other tv series that need a lute player. On another show I played lute and had to work with the stuntman. I take acting classes now and am getting more into show biz. Susan -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Renaissance/Medieval Fairs
I'd say my Ren-faire experience was a mixed bag. I performed at Ren-Faires in Texas and South Louisiana from 1981-1994; served as music director at one for a while; and through that time used the experience to not starve, while working on my undergraduate and graduate degrees. While there was an overload of 19th C. Celtic Music at all of the locations, there was also a real presence of period music to be had in my area during that time. There were many opportunities to perform in bands of Shawms and Recorders, Gemshorns, Krumhorns, and Cornetti, Vocal Groups, Early Dance (mostly Arbeau, Caroso & Negri), and Natural Trumpets, etc., performing with HIP methods (as understood at the time). Good memories of Shawm bands playing "Ohne Fels" at daybreak; dew on the grass; and the smell of a forge being coked as the day begins still haunt me. In Texas and South Louisiana in the 1980's, finding another Lutenist or Cittern player was not very easy. Ren-Faires made that much easier, and some of my best memories involve jamming with other lute players late into the night, after finding another semi-lost kindred spirit. When Early Music was present it was great experience, but more often than not, the work atmosphere was more like an episode of "All's Faire," than it should have been. Of all the experiences, jamming on Lutes Terry Brown in Dallas; with Jean Crepeau and David Brown in New Orleans; leading the Bendinelli Sonata #336 regularly at dusk with 6 Natural Trumpets, 4 Tympani, 2 Side Drums and Canon; and coaching all 212 cast members of an event to perform Monteverdi's "Domine ad Adjuvandum" at closing gate remain among my favorite memories of the experience. That being said, I stopped performing at Ren-Faires in 1994, and I've not visited a Ren-faire since 2010...so I'd likely be a poor judge of the current situation. I hope that at least somewhere, another person has found good memories in Early Music though that type of venue. Ron Banks Fort Worth, TX To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Renaissance/Medieval Fairs
Guy, Thanks for the mention in the Minnesota renaissance festival. I played at it in the late 70’s, but discontinued it as it got to be too much. Ed Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 26, 2019, at 6:07 PM, guy_and_liz Smith wrote: > > One of the Minnesota Ren Faire's that I went to when I lived there in the > early eighties included a booth for Dan Larson, who must have been just > starting his business. I nearly ordered one of his six course instruments to > replace my old German heavy lute (Steiner), and I wish I had. Apart from > that, I haven't seen much in the way of authentic music at any of the Ren > Faires that I've attended. It's mostly filk singing (spelling is correct...), > random folk music, and Celtic music, especially the headliners. > > That said, I've always enjoyed them, but more in the sense of "recreating the > Middle Ages as they should have been". > > Guy > > > -Original Message- > From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu > [mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Daniel Shoskes > Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2019 3:31 PM > To: Chris Wilke > Cc: Lute List > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Renaissance/Medieval Fairs > > A few years ago I went to the Great Lakes Medieval Fair with my kids with > zero expectation of seeing anything remotely historically lutenistic. Sure > enough, in the distance I saw someone playing a lute. As I got closer I saw > that it had real tied gut frets. Closer still and the performer was clearly > playing thumb under and I could hear real Dowland. > > Turns out it was Oberlin lutenist Michael Manderen. He plays lute and gamba > at Great Lakes and also the Michigan Renaissance Fair. Careful with those > bets Chris! > > Danny > >> On Sep 26, 2019, at 4:44 PM, Christopher Wilke >> wrote: >> >> One of those "Ye Olde Renaissance Fayres" once made me some easy money. >> I attended with a friend who was a classical guitarist. I was going >> just for the fun of it with no expectation of historical accuracy. My >> friend said, "I'll bet YOU'RE super excited to be here." I asked why he >> thought I'd be so especially enthusiastic about the event. "Because >> you'll get your fill of lutes," he replied. I said I'd be surprised to >> see a single lute. He bet me $50 we would. I had a real nice dinner >> that night. >> >> Chris >> [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone >> >> On Thursday, September 26, 2019, 10:00 AM, Braig, Eugene >> wrote: >> >> "Lucky America: having looked through musical performances at >> Renaissance Fairs, we see many ensembles actually performing >> appropriate songs and dances." >> >> This may be a bit too generous. Some make/made real efforts (for >> example, spanning two or three decades, Ohio State University [OSU] >> held a "Renaissance Faire" that strove to book performers of 16th and >> 17th music). However, most feature performers in renaissance garb, >> badly aping modern cockney accents, and strumming new songs in >> imitation of Irish drinking tunes on modern steel-string guitars. Even >> OSU's went the "fantasy" route around a decade or two ago andâafter a >> total run of 45 yearsâfinally ceased to exist by 2019. >> >> In OSU's ren-faire glory days, I approached a friend who specialized in >> English lute music. I wanted to split a set with her playing >> Elizabethan lute pieces (she has a lovely 7-course Watanabe) and me >> playing vihuela music on, of all things, vihuela (pre-Chambure >> discovery, mine is based on iconography) to highlight the "armada" >> conflict. It never came together, and I have thus never played such a >> "faire." Not owning a period costume, I don't really have the >> incentive any longer. >> >> Eugene >> >> -Original Message- >> >> From: [2]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu >> <[3]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> On Behalf Of Tristan von >> Neumann >> >> Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2019 9:30 AM >> >> To: [4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu >> >> Subject: [LUTE] Renaissance/Medieval Fairs >> >> So here's something different for a change. >> >> Why is it that in the US there are "Renfairs", all dedicated to mainly >> the 16th century (and some really stretching it by allowing some >> fantasy elements), while in Germany we only have "Mittelaltermärkte" >> (Medieval Fairs). >> >> What I don't like about the Medieval Fairs in Germany (though some are >> quite good and only allow painstakingly recreated authentic stuff), is >> the music. >> >> Since we don't know much about instrumental music of the Middle Ages, >> many people take this as an excuse to brutally treat the crowd with >> Techno-like monster beats by huge drums and ear-shattering bagpiping. >> >> I have very rarely heard "real" Medival Music apart from some Walter >> von der Vogelweide favourites and the occasional Oswald von >> Wolkenstein. >> >> Even the popular "Estampies" are rarely heard, and we rarely get even >> simp
[LUTE] Re: Renaissance/Medieval Fairs
One of the Minnesota Ren Faire's that I went to when I lived there in the early eighties included a booth for Dan Larson, who must have been just starting his business. I nearly ordered one of his six course instruments to replace my old German heavy lute (Steiner), and I wish I had. Apart from that, I haven't seen much in the way of authentic music at any of the Ren Faires that I've attended. It's mostly filk singing (spelling is correct...), random folk music, and Celtic music, especially the headliners. That said, I've always enjoyed them, but more in the sense of "recreating the Middle Ages as they should have been". Guy -Original Message- From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Daniel Shoskes Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2019 3:31 PM To: Chris Wilke Cc: Lute List Subject: [LUTE] Re: Renaissance/Medieval Fairs A few years ago I went to the Great Lakes Medieval Fair with my kids with zero expectation of seeing anything remotely historically lutenistic. Sure enough, in the distance I saw someone playing a lute. As I got closer I saw that it had real tied gut frets. Closer still and the performer was clearly playing thumb under and I could hear real Dowland. Turns out it was Oberlin lutenist Michael Manderen. He plays lute and gamba at Great Lakes and also the Michigan Renaissance Fair. Careful with those bets Chris! Danny > On Sep 26, 2019, at 4:44 PM, Christopher Wilke > wrote: > > One of those "Ye Olde Renaissance Fayres" once made me some easy money. > I attended with a friend who was a classical guitarist. I was going > just for the fun of it with no expectation of historical accuracy. My > friend said, "I'll bet YOU'RE super excited to be here." I asked why he > thought I'd be so especially enthusiastic about the event. "Because > you'll get your fill of lutes," he replied. I said I'd be surprised to > see a single lute. He bet me $50 we would. I had a real nice dinner > that night. > > Chris > [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > On Thursday, September 26, 2019, 10:00 AM, Braig, Eugene >wrote: > > "Lucky America: having looked through musical performances at > Renaissance Fairs, we see many ensembles actually performing > appropriate songs and dances." > > This may be a bit too generous. Some make/made real efforts (for > example, spanning two or three decades, Ohio State University [OSU] > held a "Renaissance Faire" that strove to book performers of 16th and > 17th music). However, most feature performers in renaissance garb, > badly aping modern cockney accents, and strumming new songs in > imitation of Irish drinking tunes on modern steel-string guitars. Even > OSU's went the "fantasy" route around a decade or two ago andâafter a > total run of 45 yearsâfinally ceased to exist by 2019. > > In OSU's ren-faire glory days, I approached a friend who specialized in > English lute music. I wanted to split a set with her playing > Elizabethan lute pieces (she has a lovely 7-course Watanabe) and me > playing vihuela music on, of all things, vihuela (pre-Chambure > discovery, mine is based on iconography) to highlight the "armada" > conflict. It never came together, and I have thus never played such a > "faire." Not owning a period costume, I don't really have the > incentive any longer. > > Eugene > > -Original Message- > > From: [2]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu > <[3]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> On Behalf Of Tristan von > Neumann > > Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2019 9:30 AM > > To: [4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > > Subject: [LUTE] Renaissance/Medieval Fairs > > So here's something different for a change. > > Why is it that in the US there are "Renfairs", all dedicated to mainly > the 16th century (and some really stretching it by allowing some > fantasy elements), while in Germany we only have "Mittelaltermärkte" > (Medieval Fairs). > > What I don't like about the Medieval Fairs in Germany (though some are > quite good and only allow painstakingly recreated authentic stuff), is > the music. > > Since we don't know much about instrumental music of the Middle Ages, > many people take this as an excuse to brutally treat the crowd with > Techno-like monster beats by huge drums and ear-shattering bagpiping. > > I have very rarely heard "real" Medival Music apart from some Walter > von der Vogelweide favourites and the occasional Oswald von > Wolkenstein. > > Even the popular "Estampies" are rarely heard, and we rarely get even > simplified versions of tunes from British Library Add. 29987. > > If you're not blasted by bagpipes, there will be bawdy songs in > pseudo-medieval folk style, of course played on totally inappropriate > instruments. > > While I think I would love to take my lute to such an event, I would be > totally anachronist
[LUTE] Re: Renaissance/Medieval Fairs
A few years ago I went to the Great Lakes Medieval Fair with my kids with zero expectation of seeing anything remotely historically lutenistic. Sure enough, in the distance I saw someone playing a lute. As I got closer I saw that it had real tied gut frets. Closer still and the performer was clearly playing thumb under and I could hear real Dowland. Turns out it was Oberlin lutenist Michael Manderen. He plays lute and gamba at Great Lakes and also the Michigan Renaissance Fair. Careful with those bets Chris! Danny > On Sep 26, 2019, at 4:44 PM, Christopher Wilke > wrote: > > One of those "Ye Olde Renaissance Fayres" once made me some easy money. > I attended with a friend who was a classical guitarist. I was going > just for the fun of it with no expectation of historical accuracy. My > friend said, "I'll bet YOU'RE super excited to be here." I asked why he > thought I'd be so especially enthusiastic about the event. "Because > you'll get your fill of lutes," he replied. I said I'd be surprised to > see a single lute. He bet me $50 we would. I had a real nice dinner > that night. > > Chris > [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > On Thursday, September 26, 2019, 10:00 AM, Braig, Eugene >wrote: > > "Lucky America: having looked through musical performances at > Renaissance Fairs, we see many ensembles actually performing > appropriate songs and dances." > > This may be a bit too generous. Some make/made real efforts (for > example, spanning two or three decades, Ohio State University [OSU] > held a "Renaissance Faire" that strove to book performers of 16th and > 17th music). However, most feature performers in renaissance garb, > badly aping modern cockney accents, and strumming new songs in > imitation of Irish drinking tunes on modern steel-string guitars. Even > OSU's went the "fantasy" route around a decade or two ago andâafter a > total run of 45 yearsâfinally ceased to exist by 2019. > > In OSU's ren-faire glory days, I approached a friend who specialized in > English lute music. I wanted to split a set with her playing > Elizabethan lute pieces (she has a lovely 7-course Watanabe) and me > playing vihuela music on, of all things, vihuela (pre-Chambure > discovery, mine is based on iconography) to highlight the "armada" > conflict. It never came together, and I have thus never played such a > "faire." Not owning a period costume, I don't really have the > incentive any longer. > > Eugene > > -Original Message- > > From: [2]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu > <[3]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> On Behalf Of Tristan von > Neumann > > Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2019 9:30 AM > > To: [4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > > Subject: [LUTE] Renaissance/Medieval Fairs > > So here's something different for a change. > > Why is it that in the US there are "Renfairs", all dedicated to mainly > the 16th century (and some really stretching it by allowing some > fantasy elements), while in Germany we only have "Mittelaltermärkte" > (Medieval Fairs). > > What I don't like about the Medieval Fairs in Germany (though some are > quite good and only allow painstakingly recreated authentic stuff), is > the music. > > Since we don't know much about instrumental music of the Middle Ages, > many people take this as an excuse to brutally treat the crowd with > Techno-like monster beats by huge drums and ear-shattering bagpiping. > > I have very rarely heard "real" Medival Music apart from some Walter > von der Vogelweide favourites and the occasional Oswald von > Wolkenstein. > > Even the popular "Estampies" are rarely heard, and we rarely get even > simplified versions of tunes from British Library Add. 29987. > > If you're not blasted by bagpipes, there will be bawdy songs in > pseudo-medieval folk style, of course played on totally inappropriate > instruments. > > While I think I would love to take my lute to such an event, I would be > totally anachronistic, and I do not want to join the "Medieval" > > musicians presenting 16th century music like Susato or even Praetorius > as "medieval". > > These events have musically corrupted the ear of the common audience. > > Whenever someone hears 16th century lute music they consider it > "medieval"... > > Lucky America: having looked through musical performances at > Renaissance Fairs, we see many ensembles actually performing > appropriate songs and dances. > > Here's a great example (if the lute player is here: good job you two) > [5]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RptxRpTiHo > > Also madrigal singers: > > [6]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYc7AqSTZXY > > Anachronisms are sometimes good fun, as the madrigal version of Katy > Perry shows, but it seems madrigal singers really enjoy the original > material like Dowland songs or Italian vocal music. > > [7]https://www.
[LUTE] Re: Renaissance/Medieval Fairs
I have been to a few "Renaissance" festivals in the United States, and seriously, did you think that the country that elected donald trump really has enough people interested in Renaissance music to support these fairs? What I saw was mostly people getting dressed up in pirate costumes and indulging in lots of eating (turkey legs are popular) drinking beer, and as much bawdiness and depravity as possible. A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E. Classical Guitarist/Lutenist On Sep 26, 2019, at 2:36 PM, Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. <[1]sa...@gerbode.net> wrote: I went to one of the first Renaissance fairs in the SF Bay Area, sometime in the late 70's. I brought my Harwood lute and settled myself by the side of the path to play, but I doubt anyone could really hear me, as it was outside and noisy. Still, I suppose the visual was good... --Sarge On 9/26/2019 13:44, Christopher Wilke wrote: One of those "Ye Olde Renaissance Fayres" once made me some easy money. I attended with a friend who was a classical guitarist. I was going just for the fun of it with no expectation of historical accuracy. My friend said, "I'll bet YOU'RE super excited to be here." I asked why he thought I'd be so especially enthusiastic about the event. "Because you'll get your fill of lutes," he replied. I said I'd be surprised to see a single lute. He bet me $50 we would. I had a real nice dinner that night. Chris [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Thursday, September 26, 2019, 10:00 AM, Braig, Eugene <[2]brai...@osu.edu> wrote: "Lucky America: having looked through musical performances at Renaissance Fairs, we see many ensembles actually performing appropriate songs and dances." This may be a bit too generous. Some make/made real efforts (for example, spanning two or three decades, Ohio State University [OSU] held a "Renaissance Faire" that strove to book performers of 16th and 17th music). However, most feature performers in renaissance garb, badly aping modern cockney accents, and strumming new songs in imitation of Irish drinking tunes on modern steel-string guitars. Even OSU's went the "fantasy" route around a decade or two ago andâafter a total run of 45 yearsâfinally ceased to exist by 2019. In OSU's ren-faire glory days, I approached a friend who specialized in English lute music. I wanted to split a set with her playing Elizabethan lute pieces (she has a lovely 7-course Watanabe) and me playing vihuela music on, of all things, vihuela (pre-Chambure discovery, mine is based on iconography) to highlight the "armada" conflict. It never came together, and I have thus never played such a "faire." Not owning a period costume, I don't really have the incentive any longer. Eugene -Original Message- From: [2][3]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu <[3][4]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> On Behalf Of Tristan von Neumann Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2019 9:30 AM To: [4][5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Renaissance/Medieval Fairs So here's something different for a change. Why is it that in the US there are "Renfairs", all dedicated to mainly the 16th century (and some really stretching it by allowing some fantasy elements), while in Germany we only have "MittelaltermÃÆärkte" (Medieval Fairs). What I don't like about the Medieval Fairs in Germany (though some are quite good and only allow painstakingly recreated authentic stuff), is the music. Since we don't know much about instrumental music of the Middle Ages, many people take this as an excuse to brutally treat the crowd with Techno-like monster beats by huge drums and ear-shattering bagpiping. I have very rarely heard "real" Medival Music apart from some Walter von der Vogelweide favourites and the occasional Oswald von Wolkenstein. Even the popular "Estampies" are rarely heard, and we rarely get even simplified versions of tunes from British Library Add. 29987. If you're not blasted by bagpipes, there will be bawdy songs in pseudo-medieval folk style, of course played on totally inappropriate instruments. While I think I would love to take my lute to such an event, I would be totally anachronistic, and I do not want to join the "Medieval" musicians presenting 16th century music like Susato or even Praetorius as "medieval". These events have musically corrupted the e
[LUTE] Re: Renaissance/Medieval Fairs
I went to one of the first Renaissance fairs in the SF Bay Area, sometime in the late 70's. I brought my Harwood lute and settled myself by the side of the path to play, but I doubt anyone could really hear me, as it was outside and noisy. Still, I suppose the visual was good... --Sarge On 9/26/2019 13:44, Christopher Wilke wrote: One of those "Ye Olde Renaissance Fayres" once made me some easy money. I attended with a friend who was a classical guitarist. I was going just for the fun of it with no expectation of historical accuracy. My friend said, "I'll bet YOU'RE super excited to be here." I asked why he thought I'd be so especially enthusiastic about the event. "Because you'll get your fill of lutes," he replied. I said I'd be surprised to see a single lute. He bet me $50 we would. I had a real nice dinner that night. Chris [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Thursday, September 26, 2019, 10:00 AM, Braig, Eugene wrote: "Lucky America: having looked through musical performances at Renaissance Fairs, we see many ensembles actually performing appropriate songs and dances." This may be a bit too generous. Some make/made real efforts (for example, spanning two or three decades, Ohio State University [OSU] held a "Renaissance Faire" that strove to book performers of 16th and 17th music). However, most feature performers in renaissance garb, badly aping modern cockney accents, and strumming new songs in imitation of Irish drinking tunes on modern steel-string guitars. Even OSU's went the "fantasy" route around a decade or two ago andâafter a total run of 45 yearsâfinally ceased to exist by 2019. In OSU's ren-faire glory days, I approached a friend who specialized in English lute music. I wanted to split a set with her playing Elizabethan lute pieces (she has a lovely 7-course Watanabe) and me playing vihuela music on, of all things, vihuela (pre-Chambure discovery, mine is based on iconography) to highlight the "armada" conflict. It never came together, and I have thus never played such a "faire." Not owning a period costume, I don't really have the incentive any longer. Eugene -Original Message- From: [2]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu <[3]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> On Behalf Of Tristan von Neumann Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2019 9:30 AM To: [4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Renaissance/Medieval Fairs So here's something different for a change. Why is it that in the US there are "Renfairs", all dedicated to mainly the 16th century (and some really stretching it by allowing some fantasy elements), while in Germany we only have "Mittelaltermärkte" (Medieval Fairs). What I don't like about the Medieval Fairs in Germany (though some are quite good and only allow painstakingly recreated authentic stuff), is the music. Since we don't know much about instrumental music of the Middle Ages, many people take this as an excuse to brutally treat the crowd with Techno-like monster beats by huge drums and ear-shattering bagpiping. I have very rarely heard "real" Medival Music apart from some Walter von der Vogelweide favourites and the occasional Oswald von Wolkenstein. Even the popular "Estampies" are rarely heard, and we rarely get even simplified versions of tunes from British Library Add. 29987. If you're not blasted by bagpipes, there will be bawdy songs in pseudo-medieval folk style, of course played on totally inappropriate instruments. While I think I would love to take my lute to such an event, I would be totally anachronistic, and I do not want to join the "Medieval" musicians presenting 16th century music like Susato or even Praetorius as "medieval". These events have musically corrupted the ear of the common audience. Whenever someone hears 16th century lute music they consider it "medieval"... Lucky America: having looked through musical performances at Renaissance Fairs, we see many ensembles actually performing appropriate songs and dances. Here's a great example (if the lute player is here: good job you two) [5]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RptxRpTiHo Also madrigal singers: [6]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYc7AqSTZXY Anachronisms are sometimes good fun, as the madrigal version of Katy Perry shows, but it seems madrigal singers really enjoy the original material like Dowland songs or Italian vocal music. [7]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIsHkuVTzDE Of course there are some of those folk singers too, but the style is more appropriate for the age represented. So here's the survey - how many of you have at least performed once at a Renaissance Fair in the US (or other countries) - or in case of Ge
[LUTE] Re: Renaissance/Medieval Fairs
One of those "Ye Olde Renaissance Fayres" once made me some easy money. I attended with a friend who was a classical guitarist. I was going just for the fun of it with no expectation of historical accuracy. My friend said, "I'll bet YOU'RE super excited to be here." I asked why he thought I'd be so especially enthusiastic about the event. "Because you'll get your fill of lutes," he replied. I said I'd be surprised to see a single lute. He bet me $50 we would. I had a real nice dinner that night. Chris [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Thursday, September 26, 2019, 10:00 AM, Braig, Eugene wrote: "Lucky America: having looked through musical performances at Renaissance Fairs, we see many ensembles actually performing appropriate songs and dances." This may be a bit too generous. Some make/made real efforts (for example, spanning two or three decades, Ohio State University [OSU] held a "Renaissance Faire" that strove to book performers of 16th and 17th music). However, most feature performers in renaissance garb, badly aping modern cockney accents, and strumming new songs in imitation of Irish drinking tunes on modern steel-string guitars. Even OSU's went the "fantasy" route around a decade or two ago andâafter a total run of 45 yearsâfinally ceased to exist by 2019. In OSU's ren-faire glory days, I approached a friend who specialized in English lute music. I wanted to split a set with her playing Elizabethan lute pieces (she has a lovely 7-course Watanabe) and me playing vihuela music on, of all things, vihuela (pre-Chambure discovery, mine is based on iconography) to highlight the "armada" conflict. It never came together, and I have thus never played such a "faire." Not owning a period costume, I don't really have the incentive any longer. Eugene -Original Message- From: [2]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu <[3]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> On Behalf Of Tristan von Neumann Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2019 9:30 AM To: [4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Renaissance/Medieval Fairs So here's something different for a change. Why is it that in the US there are "Renfairs", all dedicated to mainly the 16th century (and some really stretching it by allowing some fantasy elements), while in Germany we only have "Mittelaltermärkte" (Medieval Fairs). What I don't like about the Medieval Fairs in Germany (though some are quite good and only allow painstakingly recreated authentic stuff), is the music. Since we don't know much about instrumental music of the Middle Ages, many people take this as an excuse to brutally treat the crowd with Techno-like monster beats by huge drums and ear-shattering bagpiping. I have very rarely heard "real" Medival Music apart from some Walter von der Vogelweide favourites and the occasional Oswald von Wolkenstein. Even the popular "Estampies" are rarely heard, and we rarely get even simplified versions of tunes from British Library Add. 29987. If you're not blasted by bagpipes, there will be bawdy songs in pseudo-medieval folk style, of course played on totally inappropriate instruments. While I think I would love to take my lute to such an event, I would be totally anachronistic, and I do not want to join the "Medieval" musicians presenting 16th century music like Susato or even Praetorius as "medieval". These events have musically corrupted the ear of the common audience. Whenever someone hears 16th century lute music they consider it "medieval"... Lucky America: having looked through musical performances at Renaissance Fairs, we see many ensembles actually performing appropriate songs and dances. Here's a great example (if the lute player is here: good job you two) [5]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RptxRpTiHo Also madrigal singers: [6]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYc7AqSTZXY Anachronisms are sometimes good fun, as the madrigal version of Katy Perry shows, but it seems madrigal singers really enjoy the original material like Dowland songs or Italian vocal music. [7]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIsHkuVTzDE Of course there are some of those folk singers too, but the style is more appropriate for the age represented. So here's the survey - how many of you have at least performed once at a Renaissance Fair in the US (or other countries) - or in case of Germany, at a "Mittelaltermarkt"? (are there attempts to establish a Renaissance fair beside the Medieval ones?) How is the response to actual lute music? To get on or off this list see list information at [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS 2. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:lute-...@new
[LUTE] Re: Renaissance/Medieval Fairs
I suppose that most people aren't quite interested in roleplaying devout catholics (or protestants, for that matter). I think Civil War live-action roleplaying, also known by the acronym LARPing or simply as reenactment is particularly popular among americans because the events it depicts are still important to many in the US, and also because the wargaming aspect is just more interesting to people than just appreciating a past culture and its aspects. On Thu, 26 Sep 2019, 18:23 , <[1]theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote: Tristan: interesting observation. I think that 'renaissance fairs' in the US, from my experience, are most commonly full of an anachronistic mix of European medieval AND renaissance stuff, and Viking, and fantasy. Oddly, None of the fairs that I have attended (I haven't been to many), have any significant presence of religious themes, icons, ceremonies, etc., even though religion heavily dominated the lives of both commoners and nobility at those times. In the US, early American historical events (fairs, historical places like Williamsburg, VA, and reenactments) get extremely historically correct, often mandating historically correct costumes, food, lodging, weapons, tools, etc. US Civil war (1861-65) reenactments continue to be most popular around the eastern US and are extremely focused on authenticity (even to the point of wearing historically accurate underclothes!). I would guess that there might be fairs, or events in Europe that insist on such historical accuracy, but maybe not for renaissance era? Or is that just for Germany? Thanks for bringing up this interesting topic to explore our regional differences! trj -Original Message- From: Tristan von Neumann <[2]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> To: [3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu <[4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Thu, Sep 26, 2019 9:40 am Subject: [LUTE] Renaissance/Medieval Fairs So here's something different for a change. Why is it that in the US there are "Renfairs", all dedicated to mainly the 16th century (and some really stretching it by allowing some fantasy elements), while in Germany we only have "Mittelaltermà ¤rkte" (Medieval Fairs). What I don't like about the Medieval Fairs in Germany (though some are quite good and only allow painstakingly recreated authentic stuff), is the music. Since we don't know much about instrumental music of the Middle Ages, many people take this as an excuse to brutally treat the crowd with Techno-like monster beats by huge drums and ear-shattering bagpiping. I have very rarely heard "real" Medival Music apart from some Walter von der Vogelweide favourites and the occasional Oswald von Wolkenstein. Even the popular "Estampies" are rarely heard, and we rarely get even simplified versions of tunes from British Library Add. 29987. If you're not blasted by bagpipes, there will be bawdy songs in pseudo-medieval folk style, of course played on totally inappropriate instruments. While I think I would love to take my lute to such an event, I would be totally anachronistic, and I do not want to join the "Medieval" musicians presenting 16th century music like Susato or even Praetorius as "medieval". These events have musically corrupted the ear of the common audience. Whenever someone hears 16th century lute music they consider it "medieval"... Lucky America: having looked through musical performances at Renaissance Fairs, we see many ensembles actually performing appropriate songs and dances. Here's a great example (if the lute player is here: good job you two) [5]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RptxRpTiHo Also madrigal singers: [6]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYc7AqSTZXY Anachronisms are sometimes good fun, as the madrigal version of Katy Perry shows, but it seems madrigal singers really enjoy the original material like Dowland songs or Italian vocal music. [7]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIsHkuVTzDE Of course there are some of those folk singers too, but the style is more appropriate for the age represented. So here's the survey - how many of you have at least performed once at a Renaissance Fair in the US (or other countries) - or in case of Germany, at a "Mittelaltermarkt"? (are there attempts to establish a Renaissance fair beside the Medieval ones?
[LUTE] Re: Renaissance/Medieval Fairs
Tristan: interesting observation. I think that 'renaissance fairs' in the US, from my experience, are most commonly full of an anachronistic mix of European medieval AND renaissance stuff, and Viking, and fantasy. Oddly, None of the fairs that I have attended (I haven't been to many), have any significant presence of religious themes, icons, ceremonies, etc., even though religion heavily dominated the lives of both commoners and nobility at those times. In the US, early American historical events (fairs, historical places like Williamsburg, VA, and reenactments) get extremely historically correct, often mandating historically correct costumes, food, lodging, weapons, tools, etc. US Civil war (1861-65) reenactments continue to be most popular around the eastern US and are extremely focused on authenticity (even to the point of wearing historically accurate underclothes!). I would guess that there might be fairs, or events in Europe that insist on such historical accuracy, but maybe not for renaissance era? Or is that just for Germany? Thanks for bringing up this interesting topic to explore our regional differences! trj -Original Message- From: Tristan von Neumann To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thu, Sep 26, 2019 9:40 am Subject: [LUTE] Renaissance/Medieval Fairs So here's something different for a change. Why is it that in the US there are "Renfairs", all dedicated to mainly the 16th century (and some really stretching it by allowing some fantasy elements), while in Germany we only have "Mittelaltermärkte" (Medieval Fairs). What I don't like about the Medieval Fairs in Germany (though some are quite good and only allow painstakingly recreated authentic stuff), is the music. Since we don't know much about instrumental music of the Middle Ages, many people take this as an excuse to brutally treat the crowd with Techno-like monster beats by huge drums and ear-shattering bagpiping. I have very rarely heard "real" Medival Music apart from some Walter von der Vogelweide favourites and the occasional Oswald von Wolkenstein. Even the popular "Estampies" are rarely heard, and we rarely get even simplified versions of tunes from British Library Add. 29987. If you're not blasted by bagpipes, there will be bawdy songs in pseudo-medieval folk style, of course played on totally inappropriate instruments. While I think I would love to take my lute to such an event, I would be totally anachronistic, and I do not want to join the "Medieval" musicians presenting 16th century music like Susato or even Praetorius as "medieval". These events have musically corrupted the ear of the common audience. Whenever someone hears 16th century lute music they consider it "medieval"... Lucky America: having looked through musical performances at Renaissance Fairs, we see many ensembles actually performing appropriate songs and dances. Here's a great example (if the lute player is here: good job you two) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RptxRpTiHo Also madrigal singers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYc7AqSTZXY Anachronisms are sometimes good fun, as the madrigal version of Katy Perry shows, but it seems madrigal singers really enjoy the original material like Dowland songs or Italian vocal music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIsHkuVTzDE Of course there are some of those folk singers too, but the style is more appropriate for the age represented. So here's the survey - how many of you have at least performed once at a Renaissance Fair in the US (or other countries) - or in case of Germany, at a "Mittelaltermarkt"? (are there attempts to establish a Renaissance fair beside the Medieval ones?) How is the response to actual lute music? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: Renaissance/Medieval Fairs
"Lucky America: having looked through musical performances at Renaissance Fairs, we see many ensembles actually performing appropriate songs and dances." This may be a bit too generous. Some make/made real efforts (for example, spanning two or three decades, Ohio State University [OSU] held a "Renaissance Faire" that strove to book performers of 16th and 17th music). However, most feature performers in renaissance garb, badly aping modern cockney accents, and strumming new songs in imitation of Irish drinking tunes on modern steel-string guitars. Even OSU's went the "fantasy" route around a decade or two ago and—after a total run of 45 years—finally ceased to exist by 2019. In OSU's ren-faire glory days, I approached a friend who specialized in English lute music. I wanted to split a set with her playing Elizabethan lute pieces (she has a lovely 7-course Watanabe) and me playing vihuela music on, of all things, vihuela (pre-Chambure discovery, mine is based on iconography) to highlight the "armada" conflict. It never came together, and I have thus never played such a "faire." Not owning a period costume, I don't really have the incentive any longer. Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu On Behalf Of Tristan von Neumann Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2019 9:30 AM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Renaissance/Medieval Fairs So here's something different for a change. Why is it that in the US there are "Renfairs", all dedicated to mainly the 16th century (and some really stretching it by allowing some fantasy elements), while in Germany we only have "Mittelaltermärkte" (Medieval Fairs). What I don't like about the Medieval Fairs in Germany (though some are quite good and only allow painstakingly recreated authentic stuff), is the music. Since we don't know much about instrumental music of the Middle Ages, many people take this as an excuse to brutally treat the crowd with Techno-like monster beats by huge drums and ear-shattering bagpiping. I have very rarely heard "real" Medival Music apart from some Walter von der Vogelweide favourites and the occasional Oswald von Wolkenstein. Even the popular "Estampies" are rarely heard, and we rarely get even simplified versions of tunes from British Library Add. 29987. If you're not blasted by bagpipes, there will be bawdy songs in pseudo-medieval folk style, of course played on totally inappropriate instruments. While I think I would love to take my lute to such an event, I would be totally anachronistic, and I do not want to join the "Medieval" musicians presenting 16th century music like Susato or even Praetorius as "medieval". These events have musically corrupted the ear of the common audience. Whenever someone hears 16th century lute music they consider it "medieval"... Lucky America: having looked through musical performances at Renaissance Fairs, we see many ensembles actually performing appropriate songs and dances. Here's a great example (if the lute player is here: good job you two) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RptxRpTiHo Also madrigal singers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYc7AqSTZXY Anachronisms are sometimes good fun, as the madrigal version of Katy Perry shows, but it seems madrigal singers really enjoy the original material like Dowland songs or Italian vocal music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIsHkuVTzDE Of course there are some of those folk singers too, but the style is more appropriate for the age represented. So here's the survey - how many of you have at least performed once at a Renaissance Fair in the US (or other countries) - or in case of Germany, at a "Mittelaltermarkt"? (are there attempts to establish a Renaissance fair beside the Medieval ones?) How is the response to actual lute music? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Renaissance/Medieval Fairs
So here's something different for a change. Why is it that in the US there are "Renfairs", all dedicated to mainly the 16th century (and some really stretching it by allowing some fantasy elements), while in Germany we only have "Mittelaltermärkte" (Medieval Fairs). What I don't like about the Medieval Fairs in Germany (though some are quite good and only allow painstakingly recreated authentic stuff), is the music. Since we don't know much about instrumental music of the Middle Ages, many people take this as an excuse to brutally treat the crowd with Techno-like monster beats by huge drums and ear-shattering bagpiping. I have very rarely heard "real" Medival Music apart from some Walter von der Vogelweide favourites and the occasional Oswald von Wolkenstein. Even the popular "Estampies" are rarely heard, and we rarely get even simplified versions of tunes from British Library Add. 29987. If you're not blasted by bagpipes, there will be bawdy songs in pseudo-medieval folk style, of course played on totally inappropriate instruments. While I think I would love to take my lute to such an event, I would be totally anachronistic, and I do not want to join the "Medieval" musicians presenting 16th century music like Susato or even Praetorius as "medieval". These events have musically corrupted the ear of the common audience. Whenever someone hears 16th century lute music they consider it "medieval"... Lucky America: having looked through musical performances at Renaissance Fairs, we see many ensembles actually performing appropriate songs and dances. Here's a great example (if the lute player is here: good job you two) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RptxRpTiHo Also madrigal singers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYc7AqSTZXY Anachronisms are sometimes good fun, as the madrigal version of Katy Perry shows, but it seems madrigal singers really enjoy the original material like Dowland songs or Italian vocal music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIsHkuVTzDE Of course there are some of those folk singers too, but the style is more appropriate for the age represented. So here's the survey - how many of you have at least performed once at a Renaissance Fair in the US (or other countries) - or in case of Germany, at a "Mittelaltermarkt"? (are there attempts to establish a Renaissance fair beside the Medieval ones?) How is the response to actual lute music? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
