[LUTE] Re: Lutes and social classes historically.
Tobias Hume was not a member of the aristocracy. He was a mercenary soldier and died penniless in a home for the destitute. At one point he petitioned parliament for a pension complaining that he had been reduced to eating weeds to stay alive. I believe the ancestors of the violin family were originally considered folk instruments. Gary - Original Message - From: Bruno Correia bruno.l...@gmail.com To: List LUTELIST lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 4:35 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lutes and social classes historically. Dear Herbert, 2012/7/23 Herbert Ward [1]wa...@physics.utexas.edu I have heard that the high cost of the lute and its strings ensured that the lute historically was limited to the upper classes. Perhaps not only but mostly to the upperclass. How can we know this? The high cost of instruments, strings and editions might be a good indicative. The printed sources of lute music are not only very demanding to play but in many cases are also dificult to understand if you didn't have enough music culture (exposure to vocal polyphony). I imagine that the lower class had little time to study such pieces and perhaps not enough taste to appreciate it. Do we know how many loaves of bread cost the same as a set of strings in Renaissance Europe? We don't. Just remember, breads were made at home (cheaper), strings by the string maker (expensive). Are surviving documents or iconography definitive on this issue? I don't think so. They may be misleading as well. Were all the composers either patronized by the upper class or upper class themselves? In fact many were. Kapsperger for instance, inherited a noble title but was't wealthy, he was patronized by Italian academies and did get a job during the Barberini papacy. What instruments did the lower classes have? The guitar!! Best wishes. To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Bruno Correia Pesquisador autonomo da pratica e interpretac,ao historicamente informada no alaude e teorba. Doutor em Praticas Interpretativas pela Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro. -- References 1. mailto:wa...@physics.utexas.edu 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5147 - Release Date: 07/22/12
[LUTE] Re: Tuning
Isn't happy existentialist an oxymoron? Gary - Original Message - From: Ron Andrico praelu...@hotmail.com To: wi...@cs.helsinki.fi Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2012 1:25 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Tuning Thanks, Arto. I'm glad to know there are other happy existentialists out there, riffing on the absurdity of it all. Ron Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2012 22:35:41 +0300 To: praelu...@hotmail.com CC: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu From: wi...@cs.helsinki.fi Subject: [LUTE] Re: Tuning Ron, I love your comment on this subject! :-) Arto On 25/06/12 16:13, Ron Andrico wrote: I have to say, I'm always amused by these discussions that broadly outline the imprint of theoretical measurements on the phenomenon of sound. If we look at all the factors, including thickness and stiffness of string material, variability in trueness of dimension, interference of temperature and humidity (and probably barometric pressure) on the transmission of sound, proximate acoustical deflections, damping caused by skin oils, distortion caused by finger pressure, variability caused by thickness of fret material, wave interference from nut, bridge, soundboard materials, etc. Then there is the phenomenon that different ears hear the pitch differently. Where do we stop? I say train your ears and tune to the best of your ability. RA Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 13:24:40 +0100 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu From: akbut...@tiscali.co.uk Subject: [LUTE] Re: Tuning with apologies to those who aren't interested ;-) For a plucked instrument the finger on the node is removed from the string just after the pluck. (otherwise the sound is damped) Indeed, having sharp harmonics is a property of all strings outside the physics lesson, as any piano tuner knows. Also, if you use an oscilloscope to view the waveform, and hit the harmonic partially so that some of the fundamental also sounds, you can see the waveform of the harmonic moving against that of the fundamental. For a bowed instrument, I suspect the harmonics are in tune as long as the bow is driving the string. andy Philip Brown wrote: That may be true, but a more obvious cause would be that the total length of vibrating string is reduced by the width of the area of contact of the finger. Cheers Philip Brown On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 9:00 AM,willsam...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: They would be for a perfectly thin flexible string - but string stiffness sharpens the higher harmonics. Bill On 25 June 2012 09:39, andy butlerakbut...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: Harmonics on a plucked string are a little bit sharp, Isn't it the case that harmonics are pure by definition? David To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- -- - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2180 / Virus Database: 2437/5104 - Release Date: 07/01/12
[LUTE] Re: USA Aquila
I bought strings from them three weeks ago. Mailed my check to the Portland address and had my strings within the week: new Nylgut for the first four courses of my ten course. Played one concert with them on. So far I'm liking them. Gary - Original Message - From: Alain al...@signtracks.com To: 'Lute List' lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 2:33 PM Subject: [LUTE] USA Aquila Hi everyone, Does anyone know if Aquila USA is still in business in Portland and/or if they have a new e-mail address? I used to be in contact with Curtis, but perhaps this has changed. Thanks, Alain PS: Sorry if you already received this message - I seem to be having issues sending messages to the list To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.930 / Virus Database: 2410.1.1/4984 - Release Date: 05/07/12 11:34:00
[LUTE] Fw: Bach’s Lute Suites: This Moth is Blessed
Hi Roman, I'm confused. Are you saying that the gamba parts are subordinate to the organ, that the gamba is accompanying the organ and not the other way around. Gary - Original Message - From: Roman Turovsky r.turov...@gmail.com To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Gary Digman magg...@sonic.net Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 4:11 AM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Bach’s Lute Suites: This Moth is Blessed The 3 gamba sonatas are actually organ trios with one part assigned to gamba. RT - Original Message - From: Gary Digman magg...@sonic.net To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 4:23 AM Subject: [LUTE] Bach’s Lute Suites: This Moth is Blessed So were JSB's three gamba sonatas originally intended for trumpet? Gary - Original Message - From: Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net To: howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com; lute net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 11:34 AM Subject: Bach’s Lute Suites: This Moth is Blessed JSB didn't play gamba either as evidenced by his reassignment of nicely playable lute part in the MatthäusPassion to an impossible one for gamba in the 2nd version. Any gambist would tell you that that gamba part is pure hell. RT From: howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com Needless to say, I regard these trumpet parts as proof that Purcell didn't intend that Bach's orchestral suites be played on the lute. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.930 / Virus Database: 2410.1.1/4966 - Release Date: 04/28/12 23:34:00 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.930 / Virus Database: 2410.1.1/4972 - Release Date: 05/01/12 11:36:00
[LUTE] Bach’s Lute Suites: This Moth is Blessed
So were JSB's three gamba sonatas originally intended for trumpet? Gary - Original Message - From: Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net To: howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com; lute net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 11:34 AM Subject: Bach’s Lute Suites: This Moth is Blessed JSB didn't play gamba either as evidenced by his reassignment of nicely playable lute part in the MatthäusPassion to an impossible one for gamba in the 2nd version. Any gambist would tell you that that gamba part is pure hell. RT From: howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com Needless to say, I regard these trumpet parts as proof that Purcell didn't intend that Bach's orchestral suites be played on the lute. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.930 / Virus Database: 2410.1.1/4966 - Release Date: 04/28/12 23:34:00
[LUTE] Re: Paul O'Dette interview
Irony is a difficult effect to pull off on a computer. Gary - Original Message - From: Sauvage Valéry sauvag...@orange.fr To: 'Lute List' lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 12:32 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Paul O'Dette interview -Message d'origine- De la part de Edward Mast Objet : [LUTE] Re: Paul O'Dette interview I hope Val exaggerates when he says many on the list will be glad. . .. Of course, it was some kind of joke... ;-) V. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.929 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/4926 - Release Date: 04/09/12 23:34:00
[LUTE] Re: Nazi rules correction!
I grew up in a small catholic parish in Dubuque, Iowa. As a kid we sang in the choir loft for solemn (high) masses. We were taught to read plainchant. I remember the four line staves and the ligatures. To some extent the experience may account for my subsequent interest in early music. I was also an altar boy. No one was interested in me. I've been in therapy ever since. Gary - Original Message - From: Christopher Wilke chriswi...@yahoo.com To: Ron Andrico praelu...@hotmail.com; Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Cc: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 5:22 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules correction! Monica, Smaller Catholic churches may or may not have had the performing resources to present much in the way of elaborate polyphony, but they would have certainly had plainchant either sung by hired singers or the priests and deacons themselves. By and large, the congregation did not participate in singing. Church music practice up until relatively recent times would be a far cry from the happy-clappy stuff, which was introduced in an attempt to get people more involved. Remember, too, that aside from the ordinary and proper items, large portions of the Mass were recited by the priests to formulaic psalm tones. In some cases, the entire service was sung throughout. As Mass attendance in olden times was mandatory, even the lowliest, illiterate peasant would have been very familiar with what we tend to think of as fairly high brow repertoire. It is hard to believe that this music wouldn't have functioned as a (possibly subconscious) cultural lingua franca in non-church items. Chris Dr. Christopher Wilke D.M.A. Music Faculty Nazareth College, Rochester, NY State University of New York at Geneseo Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer www.christopherwilke.com --- On Fri, 3/16/12, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: The kind of church music that we are thinking of would have been performed in cathedrals and other important church establishments but the average person would not have attended services in such prestigious locations and if they had any music at all at their parish churches it would probably have been the equivalent of today's happy clappy. The other thing is that secular music doesn't leave such a voluminous paper trail behind it and obviously a lot of it was semi-improvised. Fascinating topic though. Monica - Original Message - From: Ron Andrico [1]praelu...@hotmail.com To: [2]l...@pantagruel.de Cc: [3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 12:36 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules correction! Dear Mark: Thanks for your considerate response. Of course we are aiming for the same thing from different directions: The thought occurs to me that, in Europe, there probably is a plentiful supply of choral groups dominating the early music scene with concerts of sacred polyphony, and Pantagruel likely provides a lively alternative with well-chosen themed concerts. Here in the US, it seems to be the other way round. While we are more than happy to indulge in some lowdown funky music (at least I am), there are several groups here filling the secular early music niche. Funny that. As for the 'TV' reference, we thought you were showing your erudition by referencing the Latin, tempus veritas. Best, RA Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 00:58:52 +0100 To: [4]praelu...@hotmail.com CC: [5]Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu From: [6]l...@pantagruel.de Subject: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules correction! Dear Ron, Hmmm, just seen that my mail included a bit that I wanted to discard and did not finish - This may sound cynical, but TV That we both feel that our world-views are underrepresented, is somewhat amusing and in the end on the grand scale of things EM anyway plays so small a role in the 21st century culture that it is not really worth bickering about :) All the best Mark On Mar 16, 2012, at 12:43 AM, Mark Wheeler wrote: I actually feel quite the opposite, that polyphonic religious music is over emphasized in our view of 16th century music. Whole secular repertoires such as the Villotta have been ignored and also misrepresented, largely because they do not fit into the western classical music metanarrative. Even as early as the first musical prints of Petrucci and Antico it was actually secular songs that outsold Latin Church Music. The church music was maybe viewed as more prestigious, in thatyou could get some rich guy to cough up some money to subsidize it. But what people were actually performing and listening to was what our good old friend Taruskin describes as humble vernacular songs, almost certainly
[LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for jazz performers
Obviously you were not the demographic they were looking for, Ed. I think what happened was a move away from a contemplative approach to religiousity to a social/interactive approach. Maybe we could trace the origins of Facebook to the abandoning of the Latin Mass. Gary - Original Message - From: Edward Martin e...@gamutstrings.com To: do...@tiscali.it; chriswi...@yahoo.com; howardpos...@ca.rr.com Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 6:36 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for jazz performers Interesting concept. Yes, many churches have abandoned their old beautiful music, in favor of this guitar strumming, poorly composed, boring music. This trend of abandoning art music, in favor of mediocrity with the idea that it appeals to the masses, keeps me away. ed At 07:37 AM 3/14/2012, do...@tiscali.it wrote: Chris, the concept is so well expressed.. Donatella Messaggio originale Da: chriswi...@yahoo.com Data: 14/03/2012 13.29 A: howardpos...@ca.rr.com, do...@tiscali.itdo...@tiscali.it Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Ogg: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for jazz performers Donatella, In America the change in music came much earlier, in many places preceding the Second Vatican Council. The Catholic Church in America took great pride in dissociating itself from old world ways by rejecting chant and polyphony. In its place, they replaced these traditions with very poor pseudo-folk music. I suppose this was done in order to provide hip music to attract young people, under the assumption that no one under 30 can stand still long enough to appreciate beauty. Unfortunately, the resultant music was some hideous hybrid that succeeded in being neither appropriately sacred nor in any way interesting to young people. At any rate, young people stayed away in droves, largely because of this smaltzy stuff. Still, these very same wannabe hippy songs - now approaching 50 years old - and the stated need to use them to attract young people are repeated ad nauseum. One of the great unwritten-about artistic travesties of the 20th century is the fact that this entire repertoire, which replaced a still-living century's old tradition, was not called for by any Church decree, but was largely engineered by the publishing company Oregan Catholic Press. If you go to practically any church in the country you will find the same poor quality songs from the 1960's and 1970's in the hymnals. This is not due to regulation, but rather a publishing deal. Chris Dr. Christopher Wilke D.M.A. Music Faculty Nazareth College, Rochester, NY State University of New York at Geneseo Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer www.christopherwilke.com --- On Wed, 3/14/12, do...@tiscali.it do...@tiscali.it wrote: From: do...@tiscali.it do...@tiscali.it Subject: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for jazz performers To: howardpos...@ca.rr.com Cc: lute@cs. dartmouth.edu Date: Wednesday, March 14, 2012, 3:49 AM I googled, in Italian, and this came out [1]http://www.giovaninsede. it/animazione-liturgica.php , there are no notes as music is not thaught in the same way as abroad, so average people can sometimes read chords ( sigh) and that is. You can get an idea. I used to go to Mass as a child, and songs which were sung were possibly ancient and complex, often in Latin, then when the previous Pope came, he destroyed that part, I guess to make audience ( sad to say, but that is), so that songs became the poorest, musically speaking, you can imagine, accompanied by guitar, organ was heard now and then. It was part of a renovation of which I can give an example: in the village where I go on holiday , there is a Chapel with a Renaissance painting. It needed restoring, but it was visible. Well , it was covered with a representation of a black Madonna ( I can't think of the proper name right now) which is not even of any artistic value. To me listening to the Mass became a real suffering, this is not the main reason why I quit, but I did. Lute and theorbo are allowed, I have been asked several times to play a piece during the mass ( but I have not done it up to now) Donatella Messaggio originale Da: [2]howardpos...@ca.rr.com Data: 14/03/2012 1.06 A: Lute Netlute@cs. dartmouth.edu Ogg: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for jazz performers On Mar 13, 2012, at 4: 01 PM, Tony wrote: The Church's doctrine on liturgical music can be summarized in seven points Doubtless there are listers who know more about this than I do, but this list seems like a compilation of things that have been said on the subject over the centuries, rather than functioning doctrine. A lot of it is pre- Vatican II. The one about guitars, for example, is obviously forty or fifty years years out of date. Try googling: catholic mass guitar (no
[LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for jazz performers
I played double bass with a jazz group for a jazz service in a church full of Presbyterian ministers. At one point in the service the celebrant decided to introduce the band to the assembled ministers by conducting a short interview with each member of the band. I happened to be the first one interviewed. As he placed the microphone in my face, I announced to the congregation, Because we're featuring jazz this evening, there will be a two prayer minimum. Gary - Original Message - From: Tony ascbrigh...@yahoo.co.uk To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 4:01 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for jazz performers Thanks Gary I tried to find information about what the church prohibited in medieval and renaissance Europe( some of you here may have some useful links) While searching for the Council of Trent I came across this list, a summary of approved music The Church's doctrine on liturgical music can be summarized in seven points 1 Types of Music Appropriate for the Mass. The music of the Mass and the Sacred Liturgy of the must be either Gregorian Chant, or must be similar to Gregorian Chant. The primary example of music similar to Gregorian Chant is Sacred Polyphony, exemplified by the compositions of Palestrina. 2 Characteristics of Music Appropriate for the Mass. The music of the Mass must have grandeur yet simplicity; solemnity and majesty, and must have dignity, and gravity, should be exalted and sublime, should bring splendor and devotion to the liturgy, and must be conducive to prayer and liturgical participation, rather than distracting the listener from prayer. It must be music that befits the profound nature of the Mass, which is the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ. As Pope Paul VI put it: The primary purpose of sacred music is to evoke God's majesty and to honor it. But at the same time music is meant to be a solemn affirmation of the most genuine nobility of the human person, that of prayer. 3 Types of Musical Instruments Appropriate for the Mass. The instrument that is most directly fitted for the Mass is the classical pipe organ. Other instruments, however, can be adapted to the Mass, including wind instruments, and smaller bowed instruments. 4 Types of Music Prohibited in the Mass. All secular and entertainment styles of music are utterly prohibited in the Mass. The introduction of inappropriate music into the liturgy is regarded as deplorable conduct. 5 Types of Instruments Prohibited in the Mass. All noisy or frivolous instruments are prohibited for use in the Mass.The specific instruments named by the Popes have included guitars, pianos, drums, cymbals, and tambourines. Bands also are prohibited, as are all automated forms of music (recordings, automatic instruments, etc). 6 Adapting Musical Traditions of Indigenous Cultures, and Universality. The musical traditions of particular cultures can and should be incorporated into the Sacred Liturgy, but only in such a way that they will be recognized as sacred (good in the words of Pope St. Pius X) by people of all cultures. That is, all such music must have the characteristic of universality. 7 Preserving the Church's Musical Tradition. The treasury of the Church's sacred music is to be carefully preserved, rather than discarded aEUR|written in 2002 . [1]http://www.matthewhoffman.net/music/ I guess compiled by a traditionalist - I know people who go to churches in the UK and Latin America where these rules are vigorously flouted And resumably the lute is a 'noisy' instrument associated with thedreadful frivolities of pianos and guitars Tony --- -- References 1. http://www.matthewhoffman.net/music/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.927 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/4267 - Release Date: 03/12/12 12:34:00
[LUTE] Re: Saturday quotes
It was a joke! I intended no disrespect to Mr. Jackson (or Quincy Jones), although his music is not my bag. Gary - Original Message - From: David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com To: lutelist Net Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 1:14 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Saturday quotes On 12 March 2012 08:23, Gary Digman magg...@sonic.net wrote: The Michael Jackson approach? What I saw in a documenary on him, and what I hear in his music, is an never-ending attention for detail and perfection in all aspects of the performance. I don't see anything bad in that for our kind of music and/or concerts. David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.927 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/4267 - Release Date: 03/12/12 12:34:00
[LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for jazz performers
Famed Czech radical Josef Skvorecky recently died at 87 in his adopted land of Canada. In the Atlantic, JJ Gould remembers Skvorecky through his memoirs, including a detailed list of the rules for jazz performers during the Nazi occupation. The Reich's Gauleiter for the Nazi Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia issued a 10-point regulation that Gould calls the single most remarkable example of 20th-century totalitarian invective against jazz. 1 Pieces in foxtrot rhythm (so-called swing) are not to exceed 20% of the repertoires of light orchestras and dance bands; 2 In this so-called jazz type repertoire, preference is to be given to compositions in a major key and to lyrics expressing joy in life rather than Jewishly gloomy lyrics; 3 As to tempo, preference is also to be given to brisk compositions over slow ones so-called blues); however, the pace must not exceed a certain degree of allegro, commensurate with the Aryan sense of discipline and moderation. On no account will Negroid excesses in tempo (so-called hot jazz) or in solo performances (so-called breaks) be tolerated; 4 So-called jazz compositions may contain at most 10% syncopation; the remainder must consist of a natural legato movement devoid of the hysterical rhythmic reverses characteristic of the barbarian races and conductive to dark instincts alien to the German people (so-called riffs); 5 Strictly prohibited is the use of instruments alien to the German spirit (so-called cowbells, flexatone, brushes, etc.) as well as all mutes which turn the noble sound of wind and brass instruments into a Jewish-Freemasonic yowl (so-called wa-wa, hat, etc.); 6 Also prohibited are so-called drum breaks longer than half a bar in four-quarter beat (except in stylized military marches); 7 The double bass must be played solely with the bow in so-called jazz compositions; 8 Plucking of the strings is prohibited, since it is damaging to the instrument and detrimental to Aryan musicality; if a so-called pizzicato effect is absolutely desirable for the character of the composition, strict care must be taken lest the string be allowed to patter on the sordine, which is henceforth forbidden; 9 Musicians are likewise forbidden to make vocal improvisations (so-called scat); 10 All light orchestras and dance bands are advised to restrict the use of saxophones of all keys and to substitute for them the violin-cello, the viola or possibly a suitable folk instrument. I wonder how the nazis felt about notes inegale. Gary -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Saturday quotes
The Michael Jackson approach? Hanging the lute over the balcony railing? Playing with one hand in a glove? Gary - Original Message - From: Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net To: Mark Wheeler l...@pantagruel.de; Ron Andrico praelu...@hotmail.com Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 8:06 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Saturday quotes Which sounds like an excuse for certain Michael Jackson approach to Early Music. Unrewarding, both visually and musically. RT - Original Message - From: Mark Wheeler l...@pantagruel.de To: Ron Andrico praelu...@hotmail.com Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 9:08 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Saturday quotes Reading this I can't help but feel that you are pressing for an aesthetic that is more a reaction to our modern world than one that reflects a possible 16th century cultural atmosphere Check out this excellent article by Liz Kenny... The uses of lute song: texts, contexts and pretexts for ‘historically informed’ performance Early Music 2008/02 Here us a bit of the opening.. Our enthusiasm for printed sources has obscured other ways of approaching these songs, and has artificially divided them from the songs of the next generation. What looks like a perfect balance on paper may or may not have remained so when the songs were performed, and the seductive solitude evoked by a book to be kept and treasured at home may not have always represented composer ‘intentions’, if indeed we can separate these from performer intentions. The ‘miniaturist aesthetic’ of privacy, secrecy and the ‘esoteric’ often define this repertory. ‘Iconographical representations of the lute in performance of instrumental or vocal music ... consist- ently depict a theatre of privacy and solitude ... apart (or distanced) from public, courtly culture.’ This may have been true of one group of performers—the most iconogenic—but it ignores what others were doing in other contexts, very definitely in public. The end (with lots of interesting stuff in-between) Early 17th-century musicians faced a challenge which their modern descendents have no trouble recognizing: that of adjusting their personal creative ambitions to different sorts of audience or consumer demand. This is not compatible with a philosophy of one ‘right’ or even one generally preferable style of modern performance based on a careful sifting of his- torical evidence, if the sift eliminates evidence incom- patible with any single interpretative thesis. Modern ideas of ‘public’ and ‘private’ are not always helpful: traces of 17th- century public practice are to be found in privately circulated manuscripts, while widely available printed books facilitated solitary music- reading. To illuminate this repertory from scholarly angles we need not a normative musicology but a more cheerfully disruptive one: we might then use its tools to sharpen a new set of interpretive skills. As Robert Spencer said ‘I see nothing upsetting in that’ All the best Mark www.pantagruel.de On Mar 10, 2012, at 5:43 PM, Ron Andrico wrote: We have posted our Saturday quotes on performing lute songs with no gimmicks: [1]http://wp.me/p15OyV-lv Ron Donna -- References 1. http://wp.me/p15OyV-lv To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.927 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/4264 - Release Date: 03/11/12 00:34:00
[LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight
If the map is all we've got, then the map is the territory. And maybe the huckle buck (sic) is what it's all about. This dew drop world, it may be a dew drop...and yet. Gary From: Daniel Winheld dwinh...@comcast.net To: lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 6:00 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight On Dec 5, 2011, at 2:44 PM, David Tayler wrote: What you see when you look at tab is a very interesting question. After looking at upside down tab for a while, your mind turns it around, just as our eye inverts images through its lens. When we see patterns that we have seen before, we relate them instantly to a set of interpretive memories. These pattern can be tab patterns, with no notes involved, or note patterns, or a combination. The mind is very flexible in what is sees. Visually encoded information of any sort is subject to virtually unlimited mental manipulation. During WWII, a Ghurka tribesman (From the Nepalese Himalayas) fighting with the British forces in Burma was left alone and stranded- he made his way from one side of Burma to the other; evading Japanese forces and navigating his way through heavy jungle. When he was debriefed at the end of his journey at an allied outpost, he was asked how it was possible for him navigate his way through such horrific situations and territory so utterly outside his experience. He happily replied that the map in his possession guided him perfectly every step of the way. It was a street map of London. (from Bugles and a Tiger, by John Masters.) Or as our friend colleague ( benefactor) Sarge Gerbode says: The map may not be the territory, but it's all we've got. Dan -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.920 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/4066 - Release Date: 12/07/11 11:34:00
[LUTE] Re: SAD TRIP----Michael Thames
Scam! Gary - Original Message - From: Mathias Rösel mathias.roe...@t-online.de To: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 2:28 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: SAD TRIPMichael Thames I cannot believe this. Does someone know if that mess-age is reliable? Does someone know Michael's whereabouts? Mathias Von: Michael Thames [mailto:michael_tha...@msn.com] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. November 2011 10:24 An: undisclosed recipients: Betreff: SAD TRIPMichael Thames Hi, Just writing to let you know our trip to Madrid,Spain it has been a mess. We were having a great time until last night when we got mugged and lost all our cash,credit card cell phone.It has been a scary experience, I was hit at the back of my neck with a pistol. Anyway,I'm still alive and that's what's important. I'm financially strapped right now and need your help,As we speak i need EURO 1,750 to add up and sort my bills,don't worry i will def refund it as soon as we get home,the fastest and safest means you can get money to me is via western union,Here's my info: Name: Michael Thames Location: Alvarez de Castro Street, 41 28010 Madrid, Spain As soon as it is done, kindly get back to me with the confirmation number. Let me know when you are heading to the western union now Michael Thames Thames Classical Guitars [1]www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com -- References 1. http://www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.920 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/4046 - Release Date: 11/28/11 23:34:00
[LUTE] Re: Renaissance lute string length
I believe they're North Korean. Gary - Original Message - From: Edward Mast nedma...@aol.com To: Martin Shepherd mar...@luteshop.co.uk Cc: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 3:01 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Renaissance lute string length A friend just sent me a youtube showing 5 very young children (Chinese or Japanese?) performing as an ensemble. They were playing full sized guitars (none of this Suzuki 1/4 or 1/2 size for them!) which were bigger than they were. With their very small hands they were able to get around the fingerboard quite well, including chords. I think this shows that, starting at a young age, one can adapt to whatever size instrument he/she plays. And I think it was common for musicians during the Renaissance to begin music studies at a young age. So, no problem for them playing the longer string length instruments - even if they were generally of smaller stature than we are today - I would guess. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.901 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3843 - Release Date: 08/18/11 11:34:00
[LUTE] Re: What's the point to historical sound
It seems to me that historical research is useful to modern performance practice on early instruments, but does not exercise a tyranny over it unless one is concerned with reproducing a particular performance exactly. It seems fairly obvious to me that the lutenists/composers of the 17th century were not trying to reproduce the performance practice of the 16th century given the amount of innovation that went on. And, yet, they did make use of certain performance practices of the 16th century lutenists that suited their purposes. Similarly, 16th century lutenists were not slavishly trying to recreate 15th century performance practice or we would all still be playing 5 course lutes with plectrums. Hence, innovation is HIP. The criterion for performance practice is what best satisfies the demands of the music, and this is a matter for the judgement of the performer. Whether he or she succeeds is a matter for the judgement of the audience and one's colleagues. Gary -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Complete Works of Marco D'all Aquila
Thank you to all who responded to my query. I was able to download manuscript Munich 266. Glad to hear that the Complete Works... is near publication. Gary - Original Message - From: Christopher Wilke chriswi...@yahoo.com To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Gary Digman gcanudig...@email.com Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 5:28 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Complete Works of Marco D'all Aquila Gary, Paul did an all-Marco program at BEMF two weeks ago. At the very bottom of the program the source was listed as the Complete Works of Marco D'all Aquila published in Lucca, Italy in 2011. While it is not quite ready yet, this should be an encouraging sign that it will be available very soon. Chris Christopher Wilke Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer www.christopherwilke.com --- On Wed, 6/29/11, Gary Digman gcanudig...@email.com wrote: From: Gary Digman gcanudig...@email.com Subject: [LUTE] Complete Works of Marco D'all Aquila To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Wednesday, June 29, 2011, 2:37 AM I know this has been asked before, but I ask again. It's now two years since the announcement of the imminent publication of the Complete Works of Marco D'all Aquila. Last I heard was that the publisher was waiting for Paul O'Dette to finish editing some pieces. Are we still waiting for Paul? Are we any closer to having access to this important collection? There is so little of Marco availlable. Is there some way to get this project closer to fruition? If Paul is the problem, can we somehow light a fire under him to get this moving? Affectionately, Gary -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.901 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3733 - Release Date: 06/28/11 23:34:00
[LUTE] Complete Works of Marco D'all Aquila
I know this has been asked before, but I ask again. It's now two years since the announcement of the imminent publication of the Complete Works of Marco D'all Aquila. Last I heard was that the publisher was waiting for Paul O'Dette to finish editing some pieces. Are we still waiting for Paul? Are we any closer to having access to this important collection? There is so little of Marco availlable. Is there some way to get this project closer to fruition? If Paul is the problem, can we somehow light a fire under him to get this moving? Affectionately, Gary -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Ear training for lute playing.
Diego Ortiz, Sylvestre Ganassi and Christopher Simpson are good sources of exercises. Play everything through as many keys as possible. Gary - Original Message - From: Ed Durbrow edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp To: Herbert Ward wa...@physics.utexas.edu; LuteNet list lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 2:33 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Ear training for lute playing. I think mixolydian and dorian modes are very prevalent, though they wouldn't have called them that. When I auditioned at Basel way back when, the rumor was that we would have to sight sing from tab. That didn't happen, but it is an excellent thing to practice as it helps you get a linear perspective. Also, singing one voice line while playing another is good exercise. If you want to know which scale to use, why not just look at a piece (or several) and see what notes are played and what the tonal center is? If you are talking about Ren lute, and even beyond, they were trained in the hexachord system, I believe. I have no idea what exercises the old ones would have done, if any, but I suspect a lot of singing. Could you explain more what you are trying to do? On Jun 14, 2011, at 1:17 AM, Herbert Ward wrote: I would like to make or obtain a computer-generated MP3 file or CD for ear training, adapted to lute playing. If I make my own, besides the usual identification of intervals and chords, I would like to include identification of scales. My initial choice of scales is: major natural minor melodic minor harmonic minor dorian Is this a good set of scales for lute playing? Are other scales (ionian, phyrgian, mixolydian, etc.) important? Are there other exercises besides interval, chord, and scale identification that would be good to include in the MP3 file? I will post the resulting MP3 file online for readers of this forum to download, if/when I complete the project. To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [2]http://www.musicianspage.com/musicians/9688/ [3]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 2. http://www.musicianspage.com/musicians/9688/ 3. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.901 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3702 - Release Date: 06/13/11 11:34:00
[LUTE] Re: New blog post
Roman; I don't know what exactly you mean by gratuitous. I assume you did not like the composition and thus meant it to be pejorative. Many of the dissonances seemed deliberate and thought out to me. There were also many consonances. I don't know if I would refer to them as gratuitous consonances. I won't say I liked the compostion, but I did find it interesting. Personally I'm open to and welcome experimentation. Gary - Original Message - From: Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net To: Gary Digman magg...@sonic.net; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 5:11 AM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: New blog post From: Gary Digman magg...@sonic.net ...gratuitous dissonance...? Gary Something along the lines of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhXNIrQJR80 RT - Original Message - From: Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net To: Ron Andrico praelu...@hotmail.com; wi...@cs.helsinki.fi; gilbert.is...@telenet.be Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 7:28 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: New blog post Ron, the questions are totally valid, and 98% of modern music is in fact ugly. This certainly does NOT apply to Gilbert, as his music is neither ugly nor modern (it is jazz-influenced, and as such has a certainn historicist air to it, and it is certainly not modernist). Jazz-influenced sonorities work well on lutes, as evinenced by Edin's renditions of Monk for example, or Ivano Zanenghi's own compositions. As to purely mordernist sound - it is utterly inappropriate for all lutes in general, and the baroque lute in particular, as the acoustical properties of the instrument tolerate absolutely no gratuitous dissonance and/or non-traditional methods of producing sound (I had many discussions apropos with Hans Kockelmans, who has a lot of experience both as a lutenist and an avant-garde composer). Modernism on lutes sounds half-ass at best, and daft at worst. Only one modernist idiom has some real potential on lutes, and that is Minimalism, due to its adherence to consonance and rhythmic interest. RT - Original Message - From: Ron Andrico praelu...@hotmail.com To: wi...@cs.helsinki.fi; gilbert.is...@telenet.be Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 10:05 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: New blog post Gilbert, Arto: I don't recall having described modern music as 'ugly' nor having railed against inventiveness. My point is just to ask the questions. But I will add that the 16th century lute was designed for and excels at transparent polyphony and, while modern chordal sounds can work, I haven't see much polyphonic writing of new music for the lute. Best wishes, Ron Andrico Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 16:26:41 +0300 To: gilbert.is...@telenet.be CC: praelu...@hotmail.com; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu From: wi...@cs.helsinki.fi Subject: [LUTE] Re: New blog post Yes Gilbert! And they were really very inventive already in 17th cetury; just take a look to La Comete by Gallot: http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/11_courseLute/GallotsCometeM.pdf Arto On Thu, 5 May 2011 15:21:04 +0200, Gilbert Isbin gilbert.is...@telenet.be wrote: Why should a modern voicing sound ugly on a lute. Play Dm11 for instance. Not bad. Gm13/D . What's wrong with it ? Sounds very beautiful to me. Why shouldn't it be possible to integrate lute techniques in modern lute compositions? Try C9sus4 followed by a bass line, or a single note run on the top voice, or in the middle voice. Sounds pretty ok to me. I think people from the 16th century would have a good laugh about this discussion. It was a time in which so many creative things happened. New compositional techniques, new lute techniques, new instruments, .. Gilbert. http://users.telenet.be/gilbert.isbin/contents.html - Original Message - From: Ron Andrico praelu...@hotmail.com To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 2:06 PM Subject: [LUTE] New blog post To All: We have a new blog post raising a few questions about modern music on the lute - not against the idea, by the way. [1]http://mignarda.wordpress.com Ron Donna -- References 1. http://mignarda.wordpress.com/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - Geen virus gevonden in dit bericht. Gecontroleerd door AVG - www.avg.com Versie: 10.0.1209 / Virusdatabase: 1500/3616 - datum van uitgifte: 05/04/11 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.894 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3616 - Release Date: 05/04/11 11:34:00
[LUTE] Re: New blog post
...gratuitous dissonance...? Gary - Original Message - From: Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net To: Ron Andrico praelu...@hotmail.com; wi...@cs.helsinki.fi; gilbert.is...@telenet.be Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 7:28 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: New blog post Ron, the questions are totally valid, and 98% of modern music is in fact ugly. This certainly does NOT apply to Gilbert, as his music is neither ugly nor modern (it is jazz-influenced, and as such has a certainn historicist air to it, and it is certainly not modernist). Jazz-influenced sonorities work well on lutes, as evinenced by Edin's renditions of Monk for example, or Ivano Zanenghi's own compositions. As to purely mordernist sound - it is utterly inappropriate for all lutes in general, and the baroque lute in particular, as the acoustical properties of the instrument tolerate absolutely no gratuitous dissonance and/or non-traditional methods of producing sound (I had many discussions apropos with Hans Kockelmans, who has a lot of experience both as a lutenist and an avant-garde composer). Modernism on lutes sounds half-ass at best, and daft at worst. Only one modernist idiom has some real potential on lutes, and that is Minimalism, due to its adherence to consonance and rhythmic interest. RT - Original Message - From: Ron Andrico praelu...@hotmail.com To: wi...@cs.helsinki.fi; gilbert.is...@telenet.be Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 10:05 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: New blog post Gilbert, Arto: I don't recall having described modern music as 'ugly' nor having railed against inventiveness. My point is just to ask the questions. But I will add that the 16th century lute was designed for and excels at transparent polyphony and, while modern chordal sounds can work, I haven't see much polyphonic writing of new music for the lute. Best wishes, Ron Andrico Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 16:26:41 +0300 To: gilbert.is...@telenet.be CC: praelu...@hotmail.com; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu From: wi...@cs.helsinki.fi Subject: [LUTE] Re: New blog post Yes Gilbert! And they were really very inventive already in 17th cetury; just take a look to La Comete by Gallot: http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/11_courseLute/GallotsCometeM.pdf Arto On Thu, 5 May 2011 15:21:04 +0200, Gilbert Isbin gilbert.is...@telenet.be wrote: Why should a modern voicing sound ugly on a lute. Play Dm11 for instance. Not bad. Gm13/D . What's wrong with it ? Sounds very beautiful to me. Why shouldn't it be possible to integrate lute techniques in modern lute compositions? Try C9sus4 followed by a bass line, or a single note run on the top voice, or in the middle voice. Sounds pretty ok to me. I think people from the 16th century would have a good laugh about this discussion. It was a time in which so many creative things happened. New compositional techniques, new lute techniques, new instruments, .. Gilbert. http://users.telenet.be/gilbert.isbin/contents.html - Original Message - From: Ron Andrico praelu...@hotmail.com To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 2:06 PM Subject: [LUTE] New blog post To All: We have a new blog post raising a few questions about modern music on the lute - not against the idea, by the way. [1]http://mignarda.wordpress.com Ron Donna -- References 1. http://mignarda.wordpress.com/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - Geen virus gevonden in dit bericht. Gecontroleerd door AVG - www.avg.com Versie: 10.0.1209 / Virusdatabase: 1500/3616 - datum van uitgifte: 05/04/11 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.894 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3616 - Release Date: 05/04/11 11:34:00
[LUTE] Re: itinerant dana
The optimist says the glass is half full, the pessimist says it's half empty, but it all depends on what's in the glass. If the glass is full of toxic waste, the roles are reversed. Gonna be a long time passing, I'm afeared. Fiddling while Rome burns... again. Gary - Original Message - From: Andrew Gibbs and...@publicworksoffice.co.uk To: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 9:15 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: itinerant dana Mutability is our tragedy, but it is also our hope. The worst of times, like the best, are always passing away... On 14 Mar 2011, at 16:05, dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote: The organbuilding job ran out of contracts couple years ago, the teemp job with census ended, and unemployment exhausted. after too long unable to pay taxes I had to sell the house. Closing was last wed, I now have cash in pocket and have taken refuge with family looking for a new place, one cheaper to keep. Same email for now. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3505 - Release Date: 03/13/11 12:34:00
[LUTE] Re: Karamazov
I saw it another way. I felt his gestures were consistent with the musical content and even necessary to the musical expression, even if somewhat more exaggerated than I would use. Each one marked a change in dyamics and or the beginning or ending of a phrase. A similar thing used to be said about jazz pianist Thelonius Monk's gestures and is currently said about Kieth Jarrett's antics. It may be, however, the gestures are a necessary part of achieving the musical result, are used very consciously to produce that result, and are not purely theatrical devices. Was Edin improvising? That might have a bearing on the gestures also. Gary - Original Message - From: Alfonso Marin luten...@gmail.com To: lutelist Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2010 4:45 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Karamazov I have the feeling that he uses music to create an image that feeds with obviously huge ego. I do not buy it, not musically nor lutenistically and most of all artistically. On Dec 5, 2010, at 12:50 PM, Roman Turovsky wrote: I find Edin's style totally dignified, in partucular when compared with, say, Mark Wheeler's. RT - Original Message - From: Alexandros Tzimeros sarab...@otenet.gr To: Edward Mast nedma...@aol.com; e...@gamutstrings.com; Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net; Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2010 6:40 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Karamazov It's a pitty. Such a good player and he insists on all these funny theatrical expressions and kitchy video clips. - Original Message - From: Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com To: Edward Mast nedma...@aol.com; e...@gamutstrings.com; Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2010 11:32 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Karamazov Great musicians often have an amazing presence on stage, but this can be with minimal gesture. Their very presence takes complete control of the theatrical space. $ However, it could be argued that there are differences in the way certain cultures approach this question. I recently saw the Kronos quartet in combination with the Ensemble Alim Qasimov from Azerbajan. They were dialoguing musically together, and although the Kronos are into such fusion, nevertheless the emotional expressivity of the Azerbajanis made them look a little stilted. The words of Alim Qasimov are clear on that subject: The words of these songs are very simple. We give them feelings, we try to infuse them with excitement and tension. Nevertheless, the emotions on the face of Alim look in no way put-on, They are a necessary part of his performance, which does not feel to be the case with Edin Amira (although, I am quite willing to accept that they mzy well have roots in such a tradition). $ This recording shows the first contacts between Kronos and the Azerbaidjanis: [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHMpmB4olbAfeature=related One very interesting piece was evoking the neighing of a young horse on instrument and voice. However, in spite of the quality of the performance, the Azerbaijani players in no way compromised themselves in catering for Western tastes. The result is that about a quarter of the French audience walked out noisily during their performance in Paris, showing in my opinion, their complete musical ignorance. I am willing to bet that no such walk out would occur with Edin and Amira, but they do seem to be doing their best to cater... $ On the other hand, I watched an amazing film of Ravi Shankar dialoguing musically with his daughter, extremely moving, but in spite of his almost mystical involvement in his music, there were no unnecessary emotional affects. [2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG2moqxqIaEfeature=related Regards Anthony Message d'origine De : Edward Mast nedma...@aol.com A : wikla wi...@cs.helsinki.fi Objet : [LUTE] Re: Karamazov Date : 05/12/2010 02:04:33 CET Copie `a : Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net; Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Just my problem. . .. No, a problem for at least me too. The question of how much musical performance is theatre, is always to be considered. I prefer less theatre. Ned On Dec 4, 2010, at 5:16 PM, wikla wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 11:23:56 -0500, Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net wrote: [3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmLoX2TTAig His strong movements, his gestures while playing, are quite disturbing to me. Just my problem, I guess and also admit. It would be easier to me to listen to his very musical playing without the video showing his suffering face. I do know that certain amount of theatre of showing that you feel deeply is necessary - it is an important part of the show. But to me - my problem as I wrote - in this performance the amount of deep feeling gestures harmed severely getting the message. Arto To get
[LUTE] Re: Karamazov
Heaven forbid, a lutenist should make a living wage playing his/her lute. And playing it well, I might add. Gary - Original Message - From: Alfonso Marin luten...@gmail.com To: lutelist Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2010 5:15 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Karamazov He indeed cashed in with Sting! ;) A. On Dec 5, 2010, at 1:53 PM, G. Crona wrote: I'm not fond of theatrics myself, but take a look at almost ANY concert pianist. It seems almost to be expected there. Can you really blame a poor lutenist for wanting to cash in on the hype? G. - Original Message - From: Alfonso Marin luten...@gmail.com To: lutelist Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2010 1:45 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Karamazov I have the feeling that he uses music to create an image that feeds with obviously huge ego. I do not buy it, not musically nor lutenistically and most of all artistically. On Dec 5, 2010, at 12:50 PM, Roman Turovsky wrote: I find Edin's style totally dignified, in partucular when compared with, say, Mark Wheeler's. RT - Original Message - From: Alexandros Tzimeros sarab...@otenet.gr To: Edward Mast nedma...@aol.com; e...@gamutstrings.com; Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net; Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2010 6:40 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Karamazov It's a pitty. Such a good player and he insists on all these funny theatrical expressions and kitchy video clips. - Original Message - From: Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com To: Edward Mast nedma...@aol.com; e...@gamutstrings.com; Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2010 11:32 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Karamazov Great musicians often have an amazing presence on stage, but this can be with minimal gesture. Their very presence takes complete control of the theatrical space. $ However, it could be argued that there are differences in the way certain cultures approach this question. I recently saw the Kronos quartet in combination with the Ensemble Alim Qasimov from Azerbajan. They were dialoguing musically together, and although the Kronos are into such fusion, nevertheless the emotional expressivity of the Azerbajanis made them look a little stilted. The words of Alim Qasimov are clear on that subject: The words of these songs are very simple. We give them feelings, we try to infuse them with excitement and tension. Nevertheless, the emotions on the face of Alim look in no way put-on, They are a necessary part of his performance, which does not feel to be the case with Edin Amira (although, I am quite willing to accept that they mzy well have roots in such a tradition). $ This recording shows the first contacts between Kronos and the Azerbaidjanis: [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHMpmB4olbAfeature=related One very interesting piece was evoking the neighing of a young horse on instrument and voice. However, in spite of the quality of the performance, the Azerbaijani players in no way compromised themselves in catering for Western tastes. The result is that about a quarter of the French audience walked out noisily during their performance in Paris, showing in my opinion, their complete musical ignorance. I am willing to bet that no such walk out would occur with Edin and Amira, but they do seem to be doing their best to cater... $ On the other hand, I watched an amazing film of Ravi Shankar dialoguing musically with his daughter, extremely moving, but in spite of his almost mystical involvement in his music, there were no unnecessary emotional affects. [2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG2moqxqIaEfeature=related Regards Anthony Message d'origine De : Edward Mast nedma...@aol.com A : wikla wi...@cs.helsinki.fi Objet : [LUTE] Re: Karamazov Date : 05/12/2010 02:04:33 CET Copie `a : Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net; Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Just my problem. . .. No, a problem for at least me too. The question of how much musical performance is theatre, is always to be considered. I prefer less theatre. Ned On Dec 4, 2010, at 5:16 PM, wikla wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 11:23:56 -0500, Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net wrote: [3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmLoX2TTAig His strong movements, his gestures while playing, are quite disturbing to me. Just my problem, I guess and also admit. It would be easier to me to listen to his very musical playing without the video showing his suffering face. I do know that certain amount of theatre of showing that you feel deeply is necessary - it is an important part of the show. But to me - my problem as I wrote - in this performance the amount of deep feeling gestures harmed severely getting the message. Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Karamazov
Beautiful. I'm fascinated by that lute. Edin may be on to something. Gary - Original Message - From: Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net To: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 3:51 PM Subject: [LUTE] Karamazov http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA2TbQrAHBY RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3291 - Release Date: 11/30/10 23:34:00
[LUTE] Re: Karamazov
Thank you, Roman; What sort of lute is Edin playing? 13 courses and the first 5 are single. This is new to me. Gary - Original Message - From: Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net To: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 3:51 PM Subject: [LUTE] Karamazov http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA2TbQrAHBY RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3291 - Release Date: 11/30/10 23:34:00
[LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc..
Surely, you jest. Fat's Waller was a master musician and a virtuoso pianist and organist, and an accomplished singer. I was quoting Milt Jackson. I thought the story had relevance in light of Eugene Braig IV's post. Gary - Original Message - From: [1]jean-michel Catherinot To: [2]Gary Digman ; [3]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 12:55 AM Subject: Re : [LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc.. Do you think that six chords music is necesseraly worse than more complex music? To stay in jazz world, Fats Waller was a kind of six chords player, and a show man. And he was great too! What I like in his music is his sound and his swing. That's exactly what I find in Private Musicke, much more than in any other ensemble of this kind. And about so-called latin american way of strumming, just read Corbetta instructions and try to play repico as he describes it... __ De : Gary Digman magg...@sonic.net A : lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Envoye le : Mer 17 novembre 2010, 10h 00min 08s Objet : [LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc.. After the Modern Jazz Quartet retired, Milt Jackson was interviewed. During the interview he complained that some kid who only know six chords makes more in one night than we made in twenty years. Later an interviewer asked John Lewis about Milt Jackson's complaint. John Lewis replied, I thought we made a good living. That's show business. We're musicians not show people. That's show business. There's no business like it. Gary - Original Message - From: Eugene C. Braig IV [4]brai...@osu.edu To: 'lute-cs.dartmouth.edu' [5]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 7:24 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc.. It's even worse than you've all imagined. This guy is popular! [6]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCage-_yz7A [7]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCCE-oTwRfY Frankly, I actually enjoyed the Kozena et al. performance. There's also nothing wrong with not. It is light years ahead of Benise. Eugene -Original Message- From: [8]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[9]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of David Tayler Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 6:52 PM To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc.. I think they should have a museum where all the paintings have been digitized and had the colors turned all the way up, ppl would love it. dt At 12:16 PM 11/12/2010, you wrote: On 12 November 2010 20:29, Bruno Fournier [10]br...@estavel.org wrote: I personnally am getting tired of all this theatrical way of doing baroque music, and the Latin american style of strumming used.A Don't It's fashion, it'll pass. In the mean time we can enjoy it (and get paid for doing it ... :-) then you can continue with the vids on the righ side of the page. Only one click away from the same singer in Albans Berg's Sieben Fruehe Lieder. Great music! Simon Rattle conducting the Simon Bolivar Youth Orchestra dressed as side kicks in the TV-series The Sopranos. No guitar strumming. Bernd We've put your present next to our little house altar and will patiently wait till Christmas before opening it. ;-) David -- *** David van Ooijen [11]davidvanooi...@gmail.com [12]www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at [13]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- - No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - [14]www.avg.com Version: 9.0.869 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3260 - Release Date: 11/15/10 23:34:00 ___ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.869 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3265 - Release Date: 11/18/10 11:34:00 -- References 1. mailto:jeanmichel.catheri...@yahoo.com 2. mailto:magg...@sonic.net 3. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:brai...@osu.edu 5. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCage-_yz7A 7. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCCE-oTwRfY 8. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 9. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 10. mailto:br...@estavel.org 11. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com 12. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/ 13. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 14. http
[LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc..
After the Modern Jazz Quartet retired, Milt Jackson was interviewed. During the interview he complained that some kid who only know six chords makes more in one night than we made in twenty years. Later an interviewer asked John Lewis about Milt Jackson's complaint. John Lewis replied, I thought we made a good living. That's show business. We're musicians not show people. That's show business. There's no business like it. Gary - Original Message - From: Eugene C. Braig IV brai...@osu.edu To: 'lute-cs.dartmouth.edu' lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 7:24 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc.. It's even worse than you've all imagined. This guy is popular! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCage-_yz7A http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCCE-oTwRfY Frankly, I actually enjoyed the Kozena et al. performance. There's also nothing wrong with not. It is light years ahead of Benise. Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of David Tayler Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 6:52 PM To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Kozena and guitars, theorbo, colascione etc.. I think they should have a museum where all the paintings have been digitized and had the colors turned all the way up, ppl would love it. dt At 12:16 PM 11/12/2010, you wrote: On 12 November 2010 20:29, Bruno Fournier br...@estavel.org wrote: I personnally am getting tired of all this theatrical way of doing baroque music, and the Latin american style of strumming used.A Don't It's fashion, it'll pass. In the mean time we can enjoy it (and get paid for doing it ... :-) then you can continue with the vids on the righ side of the page. Only one click away from the same singer in Albans Berg's Sieben Frühe Lieder. Great music! Simon Rattle conducting the Simon Bolivar Youth Orchestra dressed as side kicks in the TV-series The Sopranos. No guitar strumming. Bernd We've put your present next to our little house altar and will patiently wait till Christmas before opening it. ;-) David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.869 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3260 - Release Date: 11/15/10 23:34:00
[LUTE] Re: More digital facsimiles from the (public) libraries?
Maybe our culture is disintegrating before our very eyes. Can a culture be lost? Gary - Original Message - From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk To: Christopher Wilke chriswi...@yahoo.com Cc: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 4:03 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: More digital facsimiles from the (public) libraries? - Original Message - From: Christopher Wilke chriswi...@yahoo.com To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 2:20 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: More digital facsimiles from the (public) libraries? David, Yes, indeed, as do academic presses in general. University presses are among the worst offenders, with many volumes priced out of the range of individual buyers. I suppose they have to do something to recoup the losses from the limited appeal of many specialized subjects. But are these artificially inflated prices sustainable? Won't libraries just stop buying stuff they determine is not as important as X or Z? That is already happening. The specialized library where I used to work declined to buy a specialist book on Stradivarius which cost £80. Their funds just didn't stretch to it. I am having to wait until the British L:ibrary get around to cataloguing the copy I assume they will receive under copyright laws. Could be yonks if they are cutting back on staff to do the cataloguing (a highly skilled activity in itself). Monica Who can blame them if they need to make these budgetary decisions, but how scary is that? Publishers in turn will stop publishing the things that aren't so important... Things are increasingly turning to online resources, but this raises real issues of ephemerality. What is the probability that someone a hundred years from now will be able to access the exact online information that people the people in 2010 accessed? The long-term survivability of much of today's information might very well depend on loose printouts, made and preserved at some anonymous user's whim. Digital storage media has also shown that it is far less reliable than first believed (CDRs only have about a ten year shelf life, for example.) Wow, that's much more of a free association rant than I first intended. Anyway, I suppose it goes to show that the accomplishments of our civilization hang by a much thinner thread than any of us realize. All of our artifacts might ultimately be far less permanent than the wooden ceiling of an ancient Greek temple. Chris Christopher Wilke Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer www.christopherwilke.com --- On Thu, 11/11/10, David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net Subject: [LUTE] Re: More digital facsimiles from the (public) libraries? To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Thursday, November 11, 2010, 8:54 PM By charging high prices, sometimes hundreds of dollars, for these facsimile editions, the libraries are deprived of resources. The publishers count on extracting a toll from libraries. dt At 04:02 AM 11/11/2010, you wrote: As a retired librarian it seems to me that everyone will be better off if you have your way except the poor old libraries and librarians who need money to keep their heads above water. Without us there wouldn't be any books available or a decent place to read them. Why should people make money out of doing an edition or even publishing a facsimile but the not the people and organizations who have made sure that these things are preserved in the first place? In any case even a facsimile is not a substitute for seeing the real thing. Monica - Original Message - From: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 9:33 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: More digital facsimiles from the (public) libraries? Although I understand all of the issues, including compensating ppl for their time, charging money for facsimiles is basically evil, and in the long run everyone will be better served by having more music available--more concerts, more audience, more work. What all libraries should do is just put it all online, and then if someone wants to make an edition and sell it, fine. Just make a PDF, and upload it, and I guarantee that everyone will benefit. This also prevents players from owning a repertory by limiting access. If scholars want to sell the commentary as a separate book, that is also fine, and continues an established tradition. dt At 12:32 PM 11/10/2010, you wrote: Still something that I don't get: why are some public (public) libraries slowly making all their MS available as a digital download - and I'm thinking about the the Bayerisch Staatsbibliothek here in Munich, between others -, while there are other PUBLIC libraries (hello, British Library ...) - that still do not even seem to envisage that ... Shall we (as single
[LUTE] Re: More digital facsimiles from the (public) libraries?
Yet, there's something noble about making these availlable at no cost, just as there's something noble about public libraries making books availlable at no cost to the user in the interest of enriching the culture. A decidedly uncapitalistic sentiment originating with an arch-captialist, Andrew Carnegie. Gary - Original Message - From: Ron Andrico praelu...@hotmail.com To: vidan...@sbcglobal.net; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 3:24 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: More digital facsimiles from the (public) libraries? Hello David All: While I agree in concept that the facsimiles should be available, and that providing access to the source material is a good thing, I don't necessarily believe charging for facsimiles is evil. Perhaps you meant 'a necessary evil'? The work that goes into preparing a facsimile; photographing, maximizing its legibility, concordances if they are part of the package, reproducing, binding and conveying to players, certainly is not carried out by nefarious, money-grubbing Dick Cheney types (as a reference for evil personified). Well probably not anyway. I appreciate all of my Boethius and Minkoff facsimiles and, even if they cost as much as a small house, they don't smell of sulfur when I crack the covers. Ron Andrico Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 13:33:08 -0800 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu From: vidan...@sbcglobal.net Subject: [LUTE] Re: More digital facsimiles from the (public) libraries? Although I understand all of the issues, including compensating ppl for their time, charging money for facsimiles is basically evil, and in the long run everyone will be better served by having more music available--more concerts, more audience, more work. What all libraries should do is just put it all online, and then if someone wants to make an edition and sell it, fine. Just make a PDF, and upload it, and I guarantee that everyone will benefit. This also prevents players from owning a repertory by limiting access. If scholars want to sell the commentary as a separate book, that is also fine, and continues an established tradition. dt At 12:32 PM 11/10/2010, you wrote: Still something that I don't get: why are some public (public) libraries slowly making all their MS available as a digital download - and I'm thinking about the the Bayerisch Staatsbibliothek here in Munich, between others -, while there are other PUBLIC libraries (hello, British Library ...) - that still do not even seem to envisage that ... Shall we (as single members of the list) put some pressure on our local libraries? Send an email to the curators of their music departments - maybe as rightful, registered members of the library, as I guess some of us are - and ask about it? (Of course, this doesn't want to diminuish at all the value of such pubblication as the Dd.2.11 by the Lute Society. The scholarship part is something you dont get in a digital facsimile ...) Your opinion, listers? Matteo On 10 November 2010 20:19, Denys Stephens [1]denyssteph...@ukonline.co.uk wrote: [...] It's also worth noting that whilst some of the world's libraries are making digital copies of their musical sources available, there is currently no expectation that this, or indeed any of the Cambridge University Library manuscripts will become available as free electronic downloads. Denys -- References 1. mailto:denyssteph...@ukonline.co.uk To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.869 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3251 - Release Date: 11/11/10 11:34:00
[LUTE] Re: OT: Baroque Guitar technique
I can't let this go uncorrected. I misspelled Barney's last name, it's Kessel not Kessell. Gary - Original Message - From: Edward Martin e...@gamutstrings.com To: Gary Digman magg...@sonic.net Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 7:00 AM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: OT: Baroque Guitar technique He was an optimist. At 04:13 AM 11/8/2010, you wrote: As the famous jazz guitarist, Barney Kessell, said, The first thing you learn in music is that somebody will always come along who plays better than you do, is younger than you, dresses better than you do, and is better looking. Gary - Original Message - From: t...@heartistrymusic.com To: Stephen Arndt stephenar...@earthlink.net; Edward Mast nedma...@aol.com Cc: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2010 7:31 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: OT: Baroque Guitar technique Hello Stephen, Edward and David, and everybody else, Ahh, digital edits. I work with Sound Forge on a regular basis, and the temptation is to remove all squeaks and splats, and copy/paste good notes over bad, so as to render a recording perfect. Listen to a recording by somebody like Walther Gerwig, made before digital, and you will hear much more of a real performance. Of course, razor edits were possible, but very dangerous territory as they could not be undone. I read somewhere once that we get discouraged from playing and performing ourselves because we are constantly comparing our own playing to recordings of acknowledged masters - the top .0001% in the world. We are somehow led to believe that if we can't play like that we ain't $#!+. It's a totally un-realistic expectation. While it's a noble goal to aspire to, we need to remember that there will always be somebody out there who can play circles around us (unless we happen to BE Paul, Nigel, Robert, or Ron). I just named 4 people. 4 people out of how many billions in the world? And these people have access to technology that can eliminate all of their fluffs and marginally played passages. So, I guess what I'm saying is that I think we shouldn't be overly hard on ourselves for the squeaks and splats that, really, are a natural part of playing a stringed instrument. They are actually a part of the overall sound. We tend to forgive them in performance and forget them quickly. On recordings they live forever, so that's why the pros do 2000 edits. One of the down-sides of modern recordings is that we are inadvertently led to feel that we should give it up and let the pros do it. But, think about people who played lutes in, say, 1630. They were mostly ordinary folks playing in their parlours for enjoyment. They had no CD players, etc. It was the only way to have music unless you were fabulously wealthy. And, while there may have been a high standard amongst performers and teachers of the time, most of that music was probably fraught with squeaks, splats, and worse. So, Stephen, take heart. There will always be a virtuoso that can make us look and feel puny (I feel like hanging up my guitar every time I see John Renbourn play), but we can still make a lot of beautiful sounds for our own enjoyment, and probably for the enjoyment of others as well. Tom Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistry.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 Hi Stephen, My ability to get through a lute piece without mistakes or twangs, splats, and squeaks may be similar to yours. Very occasionally I do question myself about the sense of continuing an uphill struggle, but mostly not. As long as I sense any progress at all - and that may not be daily, but rather like a plateau learning process where a week can go by with no noticeable improvement and then suddenly you notice that a passage in a piece that didn't come out before now does - I'm encouraged to continue. And, beyond that, as with many endeavors, there is satisfaction in the process - in the discipline involved. To face a challenge and deal with it on a regular basis is reward in itself. So I say, be not discouraged. Keep practicing - keep playing! Best, Ned On Nov 7, 2010, at 8:29 PM, Stephen Arndt wrote: Dear David, I had a very mixed reaction to your post. I am in no way a professional musician, though I consider myself a serious, if not a very accomplished, amateur (at least in the etymological sense of the word). Often times I have listened to lute recordings and thought, I might as well just quit. I'll never play like that. I can get through any given piece without an actual mistake (i.e., playing a wrong note) only one time in a hundred perhaps and never without twangs, splats, and squeaks. So, I was consoled to learn that even professional musicians may have up to 2,200 edits per CD. Perhaps if I could edit myself every 2 seconds, I wouldn't sound so bad after all. It could well be that commercial CDs set artificially and therefore
[LUTE] Re: OT: Baroque Guitar technique
Music study is a lifelong process. Enjoy the ride. The only reason to do this is because you love doing it. If you can quit, you should. Gary - Original Message - From: Edward Mast nedma...@aol.com To: Stephen Arndt stephenar...@earthlink.net Cc: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2010 6:17 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: OT: Baroque Guitar technique Hi Stephen, My ability to get through a lute piece without mistakes or twangs, splats, and squeaks may be similar to yours. Very occasionally I do question myself about the sense of continuing an uphill struggle, but mostly not. As long as I sense any progress at all - and that may not be daily, but rather like a plateau learning process where a week can go by with no noticeable improvement and then suddenly you notice that a passage in a piece that didn't come out before now does - I'm encouraged to continue. And, beyond that, as with many endeavors, there is satisfaction in the process - in the discipline involved. To face a challenge and deal with it on a regular basis is reward in itself. So I say, be not discouraged. Keep practicing - keep playing! Best, Ned On Nov 7, 2010, at 8:29 PM, Stephen Arndt wrote: Dear David, I had a very mixed reaction to your post. I am in no way a professional musician, though I consider myself a serious, if not a very accomplished, amateur (at least in the etymological sense of the word). Often times I have listened to lute recordings and thought, I might as well just quit. I'll never play like that. I can get through any given piece without an actual mistake (i.e., playing a wrong note) only one time in a hundred perhaps and never without twangs, splats, and squeaks. So, I was consoled to learn that even professional musicians may have up to 2,200 edits per CD. Perhaps if I could edit myself every 2 seconds, I wouldn't sound so bad after all. It could well be that commercial CDs set artificially and therefore unrealistically high standards of performance. On the other hand, your most recent video (I think), It's a Wonder to See, has absolutely no twangs, splats, and squeaks or any other imperfections that could be edited out, so I am back to thin! king, I might as well just quit. I'll never play like that. I am not addressing myself now to the Paul O'Dettes, Nigel Norths, or Robert Bartos among us (or even to the highly accomplished Daniel Shoskes or Valéry Sauvages among us), but just to the average lute player, whoever you may be. Do you have similar thoughts and feelings? Do you alternate between I love this more than anything and I'll never be any good at this? Maybe we should form a support group. Please let me hear from you. Stephen Arndt -- From: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2010 2:55 PM To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: OT: Baroque Guitar technique Live music is great! A typical classical music CD has 800 edits, a typical solo CD, such as guitar, lute, harpsichord, etc, varies, but the high and low numbers for the albums I hvae worked range from 450-2200 Now 2200 edits is a a very large number, that's 2200 twangs splats and squeeks that have been removed. Basically, a correction has been applied every 2 seconds. So, live music is better. By going to a real concert, you hear something that is real, and support musicians directly. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.864 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3241 - Release Date: 11/06/10 11:34:00
[LUTE] Re: OT: Baroque Guitar technique
As the famous jazz guitarist, Barney Kessell, said, The first thing you learn in music is that somebody will always come along who plays better than you do, is younger than you, dresses better than you do, and is better looking. Gary - Original Message - From: t...@heartistrymusic.com To: Stephen Arndt stephenar...@earthlink.net; Edward Mast nedma...@aol.com Cc: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2010 7:31 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: OT: Baroque Guitar technique Hello Stephen, Edward and David, and everybody else, Ahh, digital edits. I work with Sound Forge on a regular basis, and the temptation is to remove all squeaks and splats, and copy/paste good notes over bad, so as to render a recording perfect. Listen to a recording by somebody like Walther Gerwig, made before digital, and you will hear much more of a real performance. Of course, razor edits were possible, but very dangerous territory as they could not be undone. I read somewhere once that we get discouraged from playing and performing ourselves because we are constantly comparing our own playing to recordings of acknowledged masters - the top .0001% in the world. We are somehow led to believe that if we can't play like that we ain't $#!+. It's a totally un-realistic expectation. While it's a noble goal to aspire to, we need to remember that there will always be somebody out there who can play circles around us (unless we happen to BE Paul, Nigel, Robert, or Ron). I just named 4 people. 4 people out of how many billions in the world? And these people have access to technology that can eliminate all of their fluffs and marginally played passages. So, I guess what I'm saying is that I think we shouldn't be overly hard on ourselves for the squeaks and splats that, really, are a natural part of playing a stringed instrument. They are actually a part of the overall sound. We tend to forgive them in performance and forget them quickly. On recordings they live forever, so that's why the pros do 2000 edits. One of the down-sides of modern recordings is that we are inadvertently led to feel that we should give it up and let the pros do it. But, think about people who played lutes in, say, 1630. They were mostly ordinary folks playing in their parlours for enjoyment. They had no CD players, etc. It was the only way to have music unless you were fabulously wealthy. And, while there may have been a high standard amongst performers and teachers of the time, most of that music was probably fraught with squeaks, splats, and worse. So, Stephen, take heart. There will always be a virtuoso that can make us look and feel puny (I feel like hanging up my guitar every time I see John Renbourn play), but we can still make a lot of beautiful sounds for our own enjoyment, and probably for the enjoyment of others as well. Tom Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistry.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 Hi Stephen, My ability to get through a lute piece without mistakes or twangs, splats, and squeaks may be similar to yours. Very occasionally I do question myself about the sense of continuing an uphill struggle, but mostly not. As long as I sense any progress at all - and that may not be daily, but rather like a plateau learning process where a week can go by with no noticeable improvement and then suddenly you notice that a passage in a piece that didn't come out before now does - I'm encouraged to continue. And, beyond that, as with many endeavors, there is satisfaction in the process - in the discipline involved. To face a challenge and deal with it on a regular basis is reward in itself. So I say, be not discouraged. Keep practicing - keep playing! Best, Ned On Nov 7, 2010, at 8:29 PM, Stephen Arndt wrote: Dear David, I had a very mixed reaction to your post. I am in no way a professional musician, though I consider myself a serious, if not a very accomplished, amateur (at least in the etymological sense of the word). Often times I have listened to lute recordings and thought, I might as well just quit. I'll never play like that. I can get through any given piece without an actual mistake (i.e., playing a wrong note) only one time in a hundred perhaps and never without twangs, splats, and squeaks. So, I was consoled to learn that even professional musicians may have up to 2,200 edits per CD. Perhaps if I could edit myself every 2 seconds, I wouldn't sound so bad after all. It could well be that commercial CDs set artificially and therefore unrealistically high standards of performance. On the other hand, your most recent video (I think), It's a Wonder to See, has absolutely no twangs, splats, and squeaks or any other imperfections that could be edited out, so I am back to thin! king, I might as well just quit. I'll never play like that. I am not
[LUTE] Re: Lute volume
- Original Message - From: howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com To: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 9:14 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute volume .. But worrying about the theorbo player's desire to be heard isn't in their job description. We're professionals. We don't pay any attention to our feelings. Gary To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute volume
When the bagpipe plays, you won't be able to hear the lute, but the lute is pleasant to look at. So, when the bagpipe plays, enjoy the lute. Peter Schickele - Original Message - From: Stewart McCoy lu...@tiscali.co.uk To: Lute Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 1:44 AM Subject: [LUTE] Lute volume Dear Howard, I think you are right to say that it is the overall sound which counts with an ensemble. When choosing voices for a choir, a conductor may choose not to invite a soloist with a strong, distinct voice, because it will stick out like a sore thumb. So it is with instruments. There has to be a balance, and it is up to the conductor (if there is one) to get it right. One of the strengths of the theorbo is that it enhances the other instruments of the group, as a catalyst may do in a mixing of chemicals. For example, it covers up mechanical clatter from a harpsichord, reinforcing the bass, and letting the audience hear the sweet, silvery tones of the harpsichord's treble notes. It is often the case that people in the audience do not recognise the sound of the theorbo in a group, because they are unfamiliar with it, but they would notice the difference if it wasn't there. There are times when a conductor may want the audience to hear the theorbo clearly, in which case he asks players of other continuo instruments to sit out. I sympathise with Chris's frustration at playing an instrument which cannot be heard, or at least cannot easily be distinguished. That is one reason why I gave up playing the double bass in orchestras years ago - why bother turning up, if there are five other bass players playing the same notes? The trouble is, if everyone thought that, there would be no orchestra. However, there are circumstances (playing background music while people talk, playing outside in the open air or in too big a room, playing alongside six trombones in a large, modern orchestra) when plucked instruments, particularly lutes, simply cannot be heard at all, and it is futile trying to thrash the instrument into audibility. If that is the case, there is little point playing without amplification. It is sad if one is reduced to contributing only to the visual aspect of a performance, merely for the sake of the cheque afterwards. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of howard posner Sent: 19 October 2010 05:15 To: Lute List Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute volume On Oct 18, 2010, at 6:12 PM, Christopher Wilke wrote: Howard, Huh? Wait, that's me! Alright, so next time I'll should ask people if they did not hear me as a discrete component, but rather as a subconsciously perceivable part of the composite tonal aggregate? Subconscious, no; part of the tonal aggregate, yes. There's no reason to think the concept was any stranger in 1700 than it was in 1850 or is now. Lots of instruments have the job of combining with other instruments to form a homogenized sound. Listen to a Schumann symphony for an extreme example in its time. BTW, if the violinist sharing the stand with the concertmaster at your concert had asked someone in the audience Could you hear me? the answer would have been, Never. I couldn't distinguish your sound from the other first violinists'. The same is true of the organist in most ensembles, including rock bands, or the rhythm guitarist in a jazz big band (or lots of rock bands, for that matter). The issue in these cases is not whether you can hear the instrument, but how much better the group sounds with it than without it. 35 years ago Rick Kemp, then the Steeleye Span bass player, told me how fascinated he was watching Neil Young's bass player staring at the drummer's foot so he'd play together with the bass drum, making one percussive bass instrument. I don't know whether it's good or bad, Kemp said. Frankly, I'm not a believer in this way of thinking for baroque music. There's no evidence that baroque composers thought of blending tone colors into new sonorities or Klangfarbenmelodie in the manner of Ravel or Schoenberg. But as you point out in your very next sentence, they very conventionally blended tone colors into familiar combinations of sonorities. Yes, bassoons double cellos and basses and oboes and violins play the same line in tuttis, but his rather goes to show how little regard baroque composers had for the actual colors of the instruments: I'd be inclined to disagree with this characterization of their regard, but since it pretty much proves my point, there's a limit to how hard I'll protest. In his operas, Handel typically expected one treble sound composed of oboe/violin, and a bass sound composed of cello/bassoon/harpsichord/theorbo/violone. He was obviously unconcerned with whether the bassoons were heard as bassoons: he just wanted a good, strong sound. If the part fits your register, play it for all I care. I'd
[LUTE] Re: Lute volume
I assure you that the inability to hear the lute in the situations I referred to was not due to lack of focus. Gary - Original Message - From: Mathias Rösel mathias.roe...@t-online.de To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2010 4:51 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute volume Judge for yourself: http://service.gmx.net/de/cgi/derefer?TYPE=2DEST=http%3A%2F%2Fservice%2Egmx%2Enet%2Fde%2Fcgi%2Fdfstools%3Fopenid%3D30949%2E1287316081%26o%3D959384029%2E1287316082%26cmd%3Dopen%26file%3D04%2BGigue%2BWach%2Bauf%2BMs1645%255FMatthias%2BRebecca%2B%2B%252Emp3%26folder%3D%252F (last Sunday, Cottbus). In the beginning, or so I was later told, a woman said, now a mike is needed, but after a short while she could dela with it. As a matter of fact, there was a lot of echo in the huge cathedral. But focussing does the trick. Or so I was told 8) Mathias Gary Digman magg...@sonic.net schrieb: As a jazz musician, I play a lot of corporate events and parties. For years I thought the crowd would get louder every time we began to play, but now I think the perception that the crowd is getting louder is a result of focus, i.e. when we begin to play we focus on sound, giving the impression that all sounds get louder including the crowd noise. That being said, I have to admit that I have attended lute concerts given by some of the leading lights of the lute world for audiences numbering in the hundreds where the lute literally could not be heard at all past the seventh or eighth row. Very frustating to pay $35-$80 for a ticket only to find out you will not be able to hear the lute no matter how focused you are. I think if we're going to play for audiences this large, some sound reinforcement may become necessary even though it is a compromise. Other instruments have had to deal with this problem. Jazz bassists amplify the double bass, even though the best and purest sound of the double bass is thereby compromised, in order to be heard. Gary - Original Message - From: Ron Andrico praelu...@hotmail.com To: nedma...@aol.com; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2010 11:29 AM Subject: [LUTE] Lute volume To All: We have a new post on our blog that may be of general lute interest, concerning volume in performance. http://mignarda.wordpress.com/2010/10/16/sound-check-is-it-loud-enough/ Best wishes, Ron Donna www.mignarda.com -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.862 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3199 - Release Date: 10/15/10 11:34:00 -- Viele Grüße Mathias Rösel http://mathiasroesel.livejournal.com http://www.myspace.com/mathiasroesel No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.862 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3203 - Release Date: 10/17/10 11:33:00
[LUTE] Re: Lute volume
I remember Thurston Dart talking about attending a clavichord recital (can't remember the source). He said that when the clavichord began to sound he could not hear it at all, but after a short while it was like surf crashing on the rocks. Gary - Original Message - From: Ron Andrico praelu...@hotmail.com To: nedma...@aol.com; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2010 11:29 AM Subject: [LUTE] Lute volume To All: We have a new post on our blog that may be of general lute interest, concerning volume in performance. http://mignarda.wordpress.com/2010/10/16/sound-check-is-it-loud-enough/ Best wishes, Ron Donna www.mignarda.com -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.862 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3199 - Release Date: 10/15/10 11:34:00
[LUTE] Re: Lute volume
As a jazz musician, I play a lot of corporate events and parties. For years I thought the crowd would get louder every time we began to play, but now I think the perception that the crowd is getting louder is a result of focus, i.e. when we begin to play we focus on sound, giving the impression that all sounds get louder including the crowd noise. That being said, I have to admit that I have attended lute concerts given by some of the leading lights of the lute world for audiences numbering in the hundreds where the lute literally could not be heard at all past the seventh or eighth row. Very frustating to pay $35-$80 for a ticket only to find out you will not be able to hear the lute no matter how focused you are. I think if we're going to play for audiences this large, some sound reinforcement may become necessary even though it is a compromise. Other instruments have had to deal with this problem. Jazz bassists amplify the double bass, even though the best and purest sound of the double bass is thereby compromised, in order to be heard. Gary - Original Message - From: Ron Andrico praelu...@hotmail.com To: nedma...@aol.com; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2010 11:29 AM Subject: [LUTE] Lute volume To All: We have a new post on our blog that may be of general lute interest, concerning volume in performance. http://mignarda.wordpress.com/2010/10/16/sound-check-is-it-loud-enough/ Best wishes, Ron Donna www.mignarda.com -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.862 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3199 - Release Date: 10/15/10 11:34:00
[LUTE] Re: incompatibility gardening/lute playing?
As a young man ( I've been a young man for many years ) I worked as a carpenter building houses in the midwest (USA) for seven years while studying classical guitar, practicing 3 and 4 hours a night. This was before pneumatic and electric nailers were in widespread use. After slinging a hammer all day, my hand would be frozen into a cylindrical shape just big enough to hold a can of beer. It's a hard life in our capitalist paradise. Gary - Original Message - From: Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 2:09 AM Subject: [LUTE] incompatibility gardening/lute playing? Dear lutenists Recently, I have found myself having to do some rather heavy gardening, which appears to be almost incompatible with lute playing. the simple fact of being physically tired is part of it, but also the fingers seem less supple after clenching a spade or a pick-axe. One lute player told me that even carrying suit-cases to a performance, can make their fingers stiff; and certain lute makers told me that using a lute maker's tools can make lute playing more difficult; although there are some excellent lute maker-players, even among us. % Do others have similar impressions, and if so, are there any ideas on how to get round this, (apart, of course simply from getting someone else to carry your lutes, and do the gardening, or play your lutes): some exercise between activities to help prepare for playing, perhaps? % At present, I am back in my flat in Paris, and so playing as much as I can, in spite of the hot weather, which also makes things more difficult, and I have regained the suppleness, but I will soon have to go back to gardening. Thanks for any advice, Anthony -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2969 - Release Date: 06/28/10 11:35:00
[LUTE] Re: lute sighting
Jordi Savall was the gambist. I read an interview with Savall. I thought he said that the actor who played Sainte-Colombe was the only one who refused a stand in for the gamba playing shots, although he did say the young actress who plays the younger daughter did her own gamba playing shots. Savall was quite impressed with her, saying she was a natural on the gamba. I actually liked the film although I'm aware most of it was apocryphal. It was this film which caused me to acquire a bass viol which led me to the lute. Gary - Original Message - From: Sean Smith lutesm...@mac.com To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 2:13 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: lute sighting I kept my eyes closed through half of that movies so I wouldn't have to watch Gerard D wringing that poor gamba's neck in time to some other piece of music! Tous les moments of that movie couldn't end soon enough. Nice music tho s On Jun 11, 2010, at 1:44 PM, wikla wrote: One comment on lutes in movies: In a many ways quite well made a movie, Tous les matins du monde, there anyhow is something that worries a theobo player: when the poor old Sainte-Colombe is playing alone his viola da gamba (viol in British, I guess...;) in his tiny cottage, you can clearly hear the theorbo playing the continuo, while there clearly none is present... Perhaps that was an image of Sainte-Colombe's hopes or imaginations? ;-) who really knows, Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2930 - Release Date: 06/10/10 18:35:00
[LUTE] Re: lute sighting
Hundreds of noisy drunken revelers are also another matter. I have to say that the music and sound effects sometimes drowned out the dialogue. Gary - Original Message - From: David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 5:21 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: lute sighting A small lute, played near the bridge, cuts through almost any early music ensemble. Modern string orchestras, modern brass and grand pianos are another matter. Just my experience. David On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 1:50 PM, Christopher Wilke chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote: Gary, You don't know. Maybe acoustics were different back in Robin's time! (Haven't seen the movie, but I can imagine the Hollywood un-verisimilitudinal treatment.) I'm being facetious, of course, but I _do_ wonder: there are lots of depictions of single lutes in ensembles (and sole) at large gatherings. From the shear number of these pictures, the lutes must not have gotten completely lost. I imagine that the players of old perhaps managed to make themselves heard by thrashing the heck out of the strings in a manner that is quite contrary to our modern construction of the delicate, precious lute. Uh, oh... this is leading down a dangerous road of thought regarding the true properties required of this string material in order to survive more than a few minutes under such a beating... NO!... can't think these thoughts.. lutes are precious, precious things... yes, precious... my precious... ;-) Chris Chris Christopher Wilke Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer www.christopherwilke.com --- On Thu, 6/10/10, Gary Digman magg...@sonic.net wrote: From: Gary Digman magg...@sonic.net Subject: [LUTE] Re: lute sighting To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Thursday, June 10, 2010, 3:02 AM I just saw the new Robin Hood with Russell Crowe. Indeed there are scenes with a small lute. One small point however, in one scene of the people of Nottingham at a party/dance outdoors the band consists of one small lute, one recorder, one vielle and percussion. It's late in the party and the revellers have been drinking. The crowd is very noisy, but the lute can be heard above the din as if it were the lead guitar in a rock band. Only in the movies. Gary -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2930 - Release Date: 06/10/10 18:35:00
[LUTE] Re: lute sighting
Morgan; Exactly what was it that we both did? Gary - Original Message - From: m cornwall mc4...@yahoo.com To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 5:31 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: lute sighting It's interesting, and I suppose to be expected, that we scrutinize those things that are dear to us, and disregard the rest.. I haven't seen the movie, but I am bold enough to hazard a guess that almost every aspect of the movie was incorrect: the clothes; the haircuts; the sets; the dialog; the accents, etc., etc.. It would be virtually impossible to get all the details correct. But what stands out? The lute is too small. I don't mean to sound like I'm picking on you, Gary, because I do the same thing. Imagine watching a movie with me that has a guitar player in it, and you might think of lines like: 'Did you see that? He's not really playing' 'On that close-up those were someone else's hands.' 'Look, the guitar/mic isn't even plugged in.' 'Hey, you can still hear her play even when her hands aren't on the guitar.' etc.etc. morgan __ From: Gary Digman magg...@sonic.net To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thu, June 10, 2010 4:02:38 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: lute sighting I just saw the new Robin Hood with Russell Crowe. Indeed there are scenes with a small lute. One small point however, in one scene of the people of Nottingham at a party/dance outdoors the band consists of one small lute, one recorder, one vielle and percussion. It's late in the party and the revellers have been drinking. The crowd is very noisy, but the lute can be heard above the din as if it were the lead guitar in a rock band. Only in the movies. Gary -- To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2930 - Release Date: 06/10/10 18:35:00
[LUTE] Re: lute sighting
One of the loudest crowds I ever played for was a cocktail party for the local Arts Council. I was playing unmiked and unamplified classical guitar. The room was wall to wall people and the crowd was so loud that people standing directly in front of me and each other had to literally shout to be heard. The guitar didn't stand a chance of being heard over the din. So I just played scales for two hours. At the end of the event, at least fifteen people came over to tell me how much they enjoyed the beautiful music I played. Gary - Original Message - From: Roland Hayes rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org To: Christopher Wilke chriswi...@yahoo.com; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Gary Digman magg...@sonic.net Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 6:15 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: lute sighting Not very flattering to us players, but what if these depictions are of someone not playing loud as possible but merely providing the muzak to the moment, the kind of unsurprising unremarkable music that makes a cocktail party a little nicer? I have played at such things myself, was relatively ignored but later thanked by many for creating a great mood. Everyone is talking and your notes sneak through the little pauses in conversation. I think it likely that this is an age-old function of music. r -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Christopher Wilke Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 7:51 AM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Gary Digman Subject: [LUTE] Re: lute sighting Gary, You don't know. Maybe acoustics were different back in Robin's time! (Haven't seen the movie, but I can imagine the Hollywood un-verisimilitudinal treatment.) I'm being facetious, of course, but I _do_ wonder: there are lots of depictions of single lutes in ensembles (and sole) at large gatherings. From the shear number of these pictures, the lutes must not have gotten completely lost. I imagine that the players of old perhaps managed to make themselves heard by thrashing the heck out of the strings in a manner that is quite contrary to our modern construction of the delicate, precious lute. Uh, oh... this is leading down a dangerous road of thought regarding the true properties required of this string material in order to survive more than a few minutes under such a beating... NO!... can't think these thoughts... lutes are precious, precious things... yes, precious... my precious... ;-) Chris Chris Christopher Wilke Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer www.christopherwilke.com --- On Thu, 6/10/10, Gary Digman magg...@sonic.net wrote: From: Gary Digman magg...@sonic.net Subject: [LUTE] Re: lute sighting To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Thursday, June 10, 2010, 3:02 AM I just saw the new Robin Hood with Russell Crowe. Indeed there are scenes with a small lute. One small point however, in one scene of the people of Nottingham at a party/dance outdoors the band consists of one small lute, one recorder, one vielle and percussion. It's late in the party and the revellers have been drinking. The crowd is very noisy, but the lute can be heard above the din as if it were the lead guitar in a rock band. Only in the movies. Gary -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2930 - Release Date: 06/10/10 18:35:00
[LUTE] Re: Pisador
Sorry, Ed. I had a senior moment... missed your opening caveat, Aside from the vihuela disc Got to go work on some more crossword puzzles. Gary - Original Message - From: Gary Digman magg...@sonic.net To: Edward Martin e...@gamutstrings.com Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 11:47 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Pisador Hi, Ed; Don't you have the CDrom with all seven of the vihuela books on it? The Pisador book is on the disc. Hope you're well and in the plink! Gary - Original Message - From: Edward Martin e...@gamutstrings.com To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 6:02 PM Subject: [LUTE] Pisador Dear ones, Aside from the vihuela disc that is commercially available, does onyone happen to have a sopy of Pisador's book of which they are willing to sell? Thanks in advance. ed Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2928 - Release Date: 06/09/10 18:35:00 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2928 - Release Date: 06/09/10 18:35:00
[LUTE] Re: lute sighting
I just saw the new Robin Hood with Russell Crowe. Indeed there are scenes with a small lute. One small point however, in one scene of the people of Nottingham at a party/dance outdoors the band consists of one small lute, one recorder, one vielle and percussion. It's late in the party and the revellers have been drinking. The crowd is very noisy, but the lute can be heard above the din as if it were the lead guitar in a rock band. Only in the movies. Gary -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] test
test -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: P.C. stringing
Many tmes in concert I've been asked to talk a little about the lute. When I explain that the strings are made from sheep intestines, a noticeable gasp arises from the audience, but I defuse the situation by explaining that we are not killing lambs to make strings, we are killing lambs to eat them. So have a nice rack of lamb or lamb stew...we need more strings!. Gary - Original Message - From: Leonard Williams arc...@verizon.net To: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 2:40 PM Subject: [LUTE] P.C. stringing Please don't anyone be offended by this inquiry about strings and personal philosophy! 1. Is there such a thing as Kosher gut strings? Or does the requirement apply only to ingestibles? 2. How do vegetarians feel about gut strings? I ask because, in retrospect of a gut-strung hurdy-gurdy presentation I gave at an elementary school, I realize that those were some possible kid questions I was not prepared to deal with. Frankly, I'm not sure how much I should have told them about sausage casings and gut strings had they asked! I was blessed with a very short time allotment. Thanks and regards, Leonard Williams To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.814 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2854 - Release Date: 05/04/10 11:27:00
[LUTE] Re: Keeping pegs pushed in.
It's called frapping among gambists and violinists and happens all the time. Bass gambists will press their heads against the neck of the instrument while turning the pegs on the side opposite to provide the pressure needed to prevent frapping. On the bass side the gambist will use the index finger and thumb to turn the peg while positioning 2 fingers of the same hand on the treble side to provide enough pressure to, it is hoped, prevent frapping. Even then, frapping occurs often enough. A fact of early music life. Gary - Original Message - From: Herbert Ward wa...@physics.utexas.edu To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 11:48 AM Subject: [LUTE] Keeping pegs pushed in. I expend some work keeping my pegs pushed in, to avoid the 24-hour catastrophe of having a peg spin loose and its string de-stretch. So, it's a somewhat frustrating that violin/viol/viola/bass players never seem to worry about this issue. While tuning, they turn the peg with one hand and bow with the other hand. I have never seen them put down the bow, brace the violin with the right hand, and push in a peg with the left hand. And I have never noticed their pegs spinning loose, despite the dozens of symphonies I've seen with dozens of string instruments in each symphony. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2774 - Release Date: 03/27/10 12:32:00
[LUTE] Re: Robert Spencer Collection
To paraphrase Alexander King, Never trust a naked lute player. Gary - Original Message - From: Franz Mechsner franz.mechs...@northumbria.ac.uk To: chriswilke chriswi...@yahoo.com; Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Cc: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 6:07 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Robert Spencer Collection Fortunately for the soul, playing early music and being sexually active are often entirely mutually exclusive pursuits. ;-) Chris oops... what is this kind of sad wisdom about? Who is speaking here and why? From which part of the soul to which one? To my experience each of these activities may smoothly and happily blend into the other... :-) F -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2680 - Release Date: 02/10/10 11:38:00
[LUTE] Re: Guitar, but less forte/faulty, organ
A fellow came to my guitar studio in 1972 or '73 with a guitar with interchangeable fingerboards in various temperments. Can't remember his name. Gary - Original Message - From: Edward Martin e...@gamutstrings.com To: Daniel Winheld dwinh...@comcast.net; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 11:41 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Guitar, but less forte/faulty, organ Yes, I met him way back in 1981. He apparently is still doing the same thing, with interchangeable fingerboards. ed At 01:03 PM 12/22/2009, Daniel Winheld wrote: For guitarists, ex-guitarists, occasional guitarists, and lutenists who care- And especially for those of us for whom repertoire, timbre, temperaments vis-a-vis matters guitaristic are of concern, check out this guy. I have listened to a few of his CD's at the music store where I work, some very worthwhile material. I believe we have noted his interchangeable fretboards on this list before, but his music is worth a hearing. http://www.otherminds.org/shtml/Schneider.shtml And also- Baroque organ reconstruction reproduction. A must read for us, really. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/22/science/22organ.html?_r=1em=pagewanted=all -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.716 / Virus Database: 270.14.111/2569 - Release Date: 12/16/09 11:52:00
[LUTE] Re: Physiology of being warmed up.
- Original Message - From: Herbert Ward wa...@physics.utexas.edu To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 9:58 AM Subject: [LUTE] Physiology of being warmed up .Can drugs help?... Jazz trumpeter Bunny Berigan was once confronted by a fan who said, You play so beautifully, but you're so stoned. How can you play so beautifully when you're so stoned? Berigan replied, The secret is to practice stoned. Gary To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: another day at the office
Big money in baroque guitar? Gary - Original Message - From: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk To: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Cc: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 1:22 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: another day at the office Regarding conductor's (as opposed to player's) whims: almost all the conductors/directors (both professional and amateur) I know or know of are generally only too willing to defer to their continuo players on the appropriate style/instrument. Of course, if one waves an exotic instrument (eg 'baroque guitar') for a particular repertoire under their noses they may see a marketing opportunity.. Regarding the point that we can never really know what was actually played; clearly this is so, but we can gain a pretty good idea of what wasn't general practice in a particular setting and this, I think, was the point of the initial comment. This also has some overlap with the recent comments on Lisveland's self-indulgent performances. MH On Fri, 18/12/09, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Subject: [LUTE] Re: another day at the office To: David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com Cc: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Friday, 18 December, 2009, 19:46 If it's not your whim and you are under duress from ill informed conductors then I owe you an apology! But briefly I don't think that the guitar would have been used in 17th century Italian (or other) religious music intended to be performed in a liturgical context. I can't see why it should be necessary. As far as the Vespers are concerned I wouldn't compare the opening with an overture to an opera. This is an invocation to God to hear our prayers and accept our praises. It is not intended to be a dramatic performance but a spiritually uplifting or inspiring experience. I am not a theorbo player but I can't really see the point in strumming that in the context although it seems very fashionable at the moment. Part of the problem seems to me to be that today the music is just regarding as another form of entertainment without taking into account the purpose for which it was intended. Beyond that there are obviously a whole range of problems about how the Vespers should be performed - starting with the idea that it isn't entirely clear what purpose Monteverdi did actually have in mind when composing it. Anyway at least I have sparked off a lively debate (again). It always surprises me that everyone takes what I say so seriously! God probably isn't worried one way or another. My brother has this nice idea that he just sits on a cloud switching channels until he finds something he wants to listen to. Monica - Original Message - From: David van Ooijen [1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com To: Lutelist [2]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 12:20 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: another day at the office On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 12:43 PM, Monica Hall [3]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: to which I would respond - is there any authority for David's proposition other than his own whim? O dear, now it's suddenly my whim against the lack of evidence ( ... is no evidence of lack c.). I'll pass your opinion on to the next conductor (tonight and tomorrow, as it happens, and this particular man might be happy, as he thought us pluckers to be _much_ too loud for his choir anyway). Seriously though, within Italian early 17th century repertoire you are saying no baroque guitar in church, not in music intended for a service or just not in Monteverdi's Vespers? I have no axe to grind here, so I am reading your comments with interest. Back to the Vespers. The festive music Monteverdi chose for his opening, worthy of an ouverture to an opera, is to me inviting to festive strumming. If there's just a theorbo, I'd do the strumming on the theorbo (Lex just made a point about that), though I do like the theorbo more for it's real forte: low and full sound. Playing the Nigra Sum on b-guitar would obviously be another matter, but, if there's no big lute, gentle plucking added to an organ would not offend me. A festive production like the Vespers is an opportunity to make the best of the orchestra available. I think it was Howard who made a valid points about the use of recorders. And there are the recurring questions about the number of cornetti needed, and what to do with the middle voices and basses in the orchestra. Yes or no bowed bass in the Nigra Sum c. Just organ or add a cembalo? Make do with the available ensemble is what it's all about. And, yes, there is currently a fashion in early music to have lots of strumming and percussion, and more and more pluckers, and noise, and confusion, and poppy
[LUTE] Re: another day at the office
- Original Message - From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
[LUTE] Re: New twist, old scam
Point Taken. Gary - Original Message - From: Wayne Cripps w...@cs.dartmouth.edu To: gcanudig...@email.com Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 6:39 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: New twist, old scam Hi Gary - I appreciate your good intentions, but it is best to not forward any spam to the lute list, as many peoples mail servers reject the message, and it could get my lute mail server tagged as a spammer! Wayne This is not lute related, but I know there's an interest in these scams on the part of some on the list. This is a new twist (to me) on an old scam. ? Gary To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.96/2548 - Release Date: 12/05/09 23:30:00
[LUTE] Re: Renaissance Metaphors
I'm not so sure that the ever mournful John Dowland's tongue was so firmly planted in his cheek on this issue. Did JD not travel to Italy to learn the melancholy pose. Maybe the melancholy pose was regarded as a muse inspiring great art as courtly love was among the medieval knights. Gary Digman - Original Message - From: chriswi...@yahoo.com To: Lute list lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Peter Martin peter.l...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:34 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Renaissance Metaphors --- On Thu, 12/3/09, Peter Martin peter.l...@gmail.com wrote: From: Peter Martin peter.l...@gmail.com Subject: [LUTE] Re: Renaissance Metaphors To: Lute list lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Thursday, December 3, 2009, 9:54 AM Reminds me of Starless and Bible Black. King Crimson, via Dylan Thomas. The poem is not quite up to the eloquent heights of desperation evinced in a line like cigarettes and ice cream, but Darkness is still a pretty decent tune. The poem's definitely about depression. Not truly debilitating clinical depression, but the sort of narcissistic, Woe is me! Everyone _look_ at me wallowing in my own special brand of Weltschmertz! Don't you feel such great sorrow and respect for my poor poet's soul that feels everything so much more deeply than y'all? Its important to keep in mind that melancholy was a fashionable artistic conceit at the time. It really was a game of I can out-sad you. Thus, a lot of this rep has its tongue firmly implanted in its cheek and there are excursions into outright cheesiness. C'mon, can anyone _really_ take that jarring, jarring sounds bit seriously??? Melancholy was a fad precisely because it was a lot of fun to camp it up play the sad boy. In essence, they're mocking true depression with a wink and a nudge. Knowing this does not invalidate the repertoire, but it can help to add insights into performance. There are enough subtle twists and turns in Dowland's settings of these poems to let us know that he was in on the joke as much as anyone else. So taking everything with deadpan seriousness is a mistake. I've always found performances that do this to be the most disappointing. Chris To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.91/2541 - Release Date: 12/02/09 11:43:00
[LUTE] Re: The End of the Golden Age
Fuzz tone covers a multitude of sins. Gary - Original Message - From: chriswi...@yahoo.com To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; vidan...@sbcglobal.net; nedma...@aol.com Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 2:45 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: The End of the Golden Age Ned, --- On Sun, 10/11/09, nedma...@aol.com nedma...@aol.com wrote: From: nedma...@aol.com nedma...@aol.com Subject: [LUTE] Re: The End of the Golden Age To: chriswi...@yahoo.com, lute@cs.dartmouth.edu, vidan...@sbcglobal.net Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 10:50 AM The rockers. . .view an overly-produced-sounding-recording as some kind of inauthentic representation of the genre. . . Unless a rock recording is from a live performance, this seems to me an ingenuous view. Even on a performance stage, rock musicians are totally reliant on electronic processing for their sound; in a studio the processing is even far greater. If it doesn't sound slick to the consumer, it's because the engineers have taken great care to make sure it doesn't. Just my view. Quite right. But that's why I was careful to write overly-produced-_sounding_ rather than just overly-produced. Many rock/pop artists sound absolutely wretched without editing and a bunch of studio bells and whistles. There's lots of overdubbing, too. None the less, some sort of unpolished character is expected. Meanwhile, big names in our field try to get everything to sound even. The result is no less artificial than a rock/pop recording, but it ends up being far blander. Its a professional standard that never existed in early music and is unfortunately detrimental to the art. Hmmm, maybe we should try to remember who sells more and think twice before editing out every last fret buzz. Chris Ned -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.8/2423 - Release Date: 10/08/09 18:33:00
[LUTE] Re: Imbalance
To paraphrase Monty Python, We are lutenists and we're ok; we like to dress in women's clothes. Gary - Original Message - From: Peter Martin peter.l...@gmail.com To: Lute list lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 12:54 AM Subject: [LUTE] Imbalance Of the last 100 individuals to post to this list, 95 were men. Is this representative of the wider lute world? Any ideas why? Peter -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.374 / Virus Database: 270.13.76/2342 - Release Date: 09/02/09 18:03:00
[LUTE] Re: test
Yes, indeed. It's unusual to go two days without any postings on the lutelist. Thought maybe something was wrong at my end. Gary Digman, Luddite - Original Message - From: gonzornumpl...@roadrunner.com To: gary digman magg...@sonic.net Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 8:07 AM Subject: Re: [LUTE] test Hello, I assume you were testing to see if there would be a response. Mark gary digman magg...@sonic.net wrote: test -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.374 / Virus Database: 270.13.76/2342 - Release Date: 09/02/09 18:03:00
[LUTE] test
test -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Alto lute help
Placing the capo at the 2nd fret on a guitar tuned to A=440 would be equivalent to G=415 lute pitch. More method to the madness than first appears. Gary - Original Message - From: Franz Mechsner franz.mechs...@northumbria.ac.uk To: Eugene C. Braig IV brai...@osu.edu; Daniel Winheld dwinh...@comcast.net; lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 10:18 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Alto lute help When I played the guitar, I often put a capo on 2nd (rarely 3rd) fret for renaissance pieces transcribed from lute because I felt they sounded better like that. I had no idea about the lute and thought I put the pieces too high... So was that silly? And if yes, why? Somehow I missed the whole threat of discussion here, thus I am not so enlightened as I should probably be... Franz __ Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu im Auftrag von Eugene C. Braig IV Gesendet: Mo 20.07.2009 18:12 An: 'Daniel Winheld'; lute Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Alto lute help -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [[1]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Daniel Winheld Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 6:06 PM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Alto lute help It's been enjoyable for me to sit back and watch this discussion develop along its predictable yet excellent path- and I especially love Martin's description of the grim determination of guitarists to use a capo at the 3rd fret -come Hell or high water, no matter what, because a Renaissance solo lute is a G instrument, God Damn it! (It's OK, I was one of those guitarists myself very many years ago) [Eugene C. Braig IV] I never was. That's a rather silly and arbitrary determination and, I think, much rarer than it was a few decades ago. Eugene To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.374 / Virus Database: 270.13.20/2248 - Release Date: 07/19/09 05:57:00
[LUTE] Re: Ukulele and Renaissance Guitar
Or Robert B-1 Bob Dornan. Gary - Original Message - From: Eugene C. Braig IV brai...@osu.edu To: 'howard posner' howardpos...@ca.rr.com; 'lute mailing list list' lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 11:03 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Ukulele and Renaissance Guitar ..not to mention the world's first Governator. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of howard posner Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 1:48 PM To: lute mailing list list Subject: [LUTE] Re: Ukulele and Renaissance Guitar On Jul 16, 2009, at 9:42 AM, Ron Andrico wrote: You California types are just going to have to work out what constitutes humor. We are eminently qualified for the task, having given the world Marx Brothers movies, I Love Lucy, Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.374 / Virus Database: 270.13.10/2231 - Release Date: 07/11/09 05:57:00
[LUTE] Re: lute songs or pieces for wedding occasion
How about Tobias Hume: My Mistress Hath a Pretty Thinge Tickle Me Quickly Purcell: O Let Me Weep I Attempt From Love's Sickness to Fly Ah, How Sweet It Is To Love Josquin: Adieu Mes Amours Passareau: Il Est Bel Et Bon? Gary P.S. Sorry for the redundancy, Dana. The finger hit send while the mind was on vacation. - Original Message - From: dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us To: lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 6:54 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: lute songs or pieces for wedding occasion On Wed, Jun 17, 2009, Mathias Rösel mathias.roe...@t-online.de said: How about e. g. Come Again? such bawd is better held for when the celebration after the ceremony gets rowdy. Il estoit une fillette, une mousque de biscayne, watkins ale... for the dancing, I have always liked Tant que vivrai; which goes well for ensemble having a dialog between parts in the middle. A challenge for todays dance masters to choreograph it for the wedding couple. -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.71/2178 - Release Date: 06/15/09 17:54:00
[LUTE] Re: Theorbo by Nic. Nic. B. van der Waals for sale
Alfonso; I didn't read Arto's remarks to mean that you're lute was overpriced, just that the cost had generally risen to the point of putting these instruments out of the reach of the majority of players. The same thing has happened to many instruments, double basses for example have increased in value so much that investors are buying them as investments and storing them in warehouses while their value increases. Gary - Original Message - From: Alfonso Marin luten...@gmail.com To: lutelist Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 4:31 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Theorbo by Nic. Nic. B. van der Waals for sale Dear Arto and all, After the brief discussion about theorbo prices, I looked around for of other makers prices to reevaluate the worth of my theorbo by Nico van der Waals I am currently offering for sale for 7900€ (original price was 8250€ back in 2002). I am now certain that my asking price is quite fair for such a reputable maker and for an exceptionally good sounding instrument in mint condition. These are examples of similarly decorated instruments taken from up to date prices of three good makers including a Kingham case. I do not have information about Paul Tomson and Michael Lowe but I know these are much more expensive and their waiting list is even not considerable if you need an instrument in the near future. Stephen Barber 7,777€ Stephen Gottlieb 9,105 € Grant Tomlinson 9800 US $ = 7,604 € + 390 Kingham case = 7994 € (last years price) I know that Arto did not want to suggest that my theorbo was too expensive but in an indirect way he actually did. For that reason I feel compelled to defend myself and demonstrate the fairness of my asking price. Greetings, Alfonso On Feb 14, 2009, at 12:20 AM, wi...@cs.helsinki.fi wrote: On 2/13/2009, Alfonso Marin luten...@gmail.com wrote: I am offering my Theorbo by NIco van der Waals for sale. .. Selling price is 7900 . The instrument really looks very beautiful! But is this really the price level of today? 7800 euros for a quality theorbo? In that case I am a rich man! On the other hand we lutenists have been happy for years for the prices of our instruments - just take a look to all others, even to modern guitarists ordering hand made instruments... Happily I've bought my instruments in the times that were not so good to luthiers! ;-)Best wishes to Stephen B. and Sandy! ;-)) Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.23/1950 - Release Date: 02/12/09 18:46:00
[LUTE] Re: Paul O'Dette Interview with Bruce Duffie . . . . .
Sorry, this was meant to be a private email. Slip of the finger. Please disregard. Gary - Original Message - From: gary digman magg...@sonic.net To: lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 2:44 AM Subject: [LUTE] Paul O'Dette Interview with Bruce Duffie . . . . . Dear Rat; I don't now if you'll be able to access this with your computer problemas, But if you are, I thought you might find this interview with Paul O'dette interesting if only for what he has to say about the way Beethoven is performed. Love, G [1]http://www.bruceduffie.com/odette2.html -- References 1. http://www.bruceduffie.com/odette2.html To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.19/1940 - Release Date: 2/8/2009 5:57 PM
[LUTE] Re: Dilettantism
Dan; Did you read the aforementioned interview with Paul O'dette. I don't think anyone has ever been satisfied with their results. I play St. Colombe, Marais, and, occasionally Forqueray on the bass viol as well as Dowland, Terzi et al on the renaissance lute and Weiss, Falckenhagen, various Gaultiers etc. on the baroque lute as well as Guerau, Sans, de Murcia, Corbetta, et al on baroque guitar as well as Villa-Lobos, Rodrigo, Britten et al on modern guitar and Miles, Wes, Jim Hall, Charlie Byrd etc. on jazz guitar as well as Oscar Pettiford and Charlie Parker on double bass. I play 3 or 4 jazz guitar or double bass gigs a month, 4 or 5 classical and early music concerts a year with some pretty accomplished musicians. While it's true if I narrowed my focus a little I might be a little more polished, but I'm having too much fun and wouldn't change my approach. I leave judgements about how successful I am at what I do to others. So much great music to play and so little time. Got to go practice. Gary - Original Message - From: Daniel Winheld dwinh...@comcast.net To: gary digman magg...@sonic.net Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 10:25 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Dilettantism What's your definition of doing better? Easy. If I had locked up all my viel ton instruments for two or three years, had a day job with fewer hours, I would have gained complete technical control of the 13-course d-minor lute. ALL the chord shapes positions, cross-string scale passage fingerings and ornaments would be solidly in the muscle-memory bank; about a dozen Weiss suites would be publicly playable, not to mention Reusner, Bittner, and the French dudes- unmeasured preludes would no longer be an eternal mystery- you see where this is going. On the viol, I might have progressed to St. Colombe, Marais, Forqueray et al. A lot of this is individual choice, influenced by individual circumstances- such as time talent. I have only limited amounts of both, plus some non-musical obsessions that are part of a full plate in life. No regrets, however, just enough whining to feel good about it all. Dan -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.19/1940 - Release Date: 2/8/2009 5:57 PM To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Dilettantism
So much music, so little time! Gary (Aspires to be dilettante) - Original Message - From: Daniel Winheld dwinh...@comcast.net To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 8:51 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Dilettantism Yes but.. The but for me hinges on the words professional virtuosi - as someone who does not earn his bread playing music (thereby enforcing literal amateur status) I have only the time left over from a job that eats 50 hours weekly. So I don't have time to keep even one instrument up to a standard I would respect. Sometimes the Baroque lute sits around unplayed for weeks. These days it's the vihuela. Can't even remember the last time I even tuned the poor old viola da gamba- and at one point it had more professional importance for me than the lutes. The steel-string guitar (my stealth opharion/bandora) sits in the same corner keeping the viol company. I see them making sad faces at me, bored out of their minds. At one time, it was the noble amateur who was esteemed as being the most learned sort of well-rounded human being; for only he (living off the labor of others, not even burdened by maintaining his own home personal chores) who could play a number of expensive plucked strings, bowed strings, perhaps also a keyboard and wind instrument or two, AND had time for poetry, tennis, riding and even hunting! One of the criticisms leveled at the violoncello in the 18th century, I believe in The Defense of the Viol against the pretensions of the Violoncello (unsure of proper French spelling, amateur that I am) was that it required a single purpose fanatical training just to play the fretless instrument in tune, and still too much time to maintain proficiency, whereas the cultured, well-rounded, educated gentleman could retain enough ability to stay well practiced enough on the viol and still have time for a full life, including of course other instruments. The real professional, then as now, had- and has- more time, (even if still insufficient for all things) by virtue of it being his profession. Dan, grudgingly dilettante to the end. Isn't it possible that playing several plucked instruments can be mutually reinforcing? If I spend all day playing the vihuela, won't that improve my lute playing? If I work on achieving perfect, pearl-like tones on my six-course, won't that improve my tone on the ten-course? If I learn to play the bass strings on my baroque lute, won't that help me on the theorbo basses? If I learn to play continuo on the theorbo, won't that make me a better all-round musician? The lute world consists of a diversity of instruments, and off-hand I can't think of any professional virtuosi who have confined themselves to just one of them. My point is that I don't think their virtuosity has been diminished by the variety of instruments they have recorded on. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date: 2/5/2009 11:34 AM
[LUTE] Re: Dilettantism
Music is so vast that one could spend a lifetime in one position and never exhaust the possibilities. Gary (kid in a candy store) - Original Message - From: Sean Smith lutesm...@mac.com To: Lute Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 10:07 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Dilettantism From my own experiance I would argue the other way but strongly believe both approaches are valid. For the past 8 years I've played only 6c lutes. The course cap was entirely deliberate to cut down on instrument and genre overload. Rather than having one 6c to play the pre-1600 rep, I have 3 (and, alas, soon 4) and rather than have more genres to fill out my education on what's-out-there-and-how-to-play-it, I have a variety of timbres, note sustainments, brightnesses, etc to explore. It also promotes a left hand elasticity w/out my right hand looking for basses and new thumb positions. When I first started this experiment the 'rule of thumb' was what was available to one person's lifetime if he had died ~1595 which I thought would give me a pretty big window. Huge window, in fact. It turns out that most of the books I have would not have been available to an amateur player or even a successful professional and even then, I'm not sure he'd want to be hampered by having to keep on top of all that diversity. So in any year I let go of Johnson to hike through Phalese for a while (an endless while, mind you) which I let go of to play Spinacino which is let go to play Blindhammer and then experiment w/ Buxheimer and the 15th century and then get called back to VGalilei. And the cycle continues. (For those of us worried about HIP performances, we should know that no ren player ever played w/ as much variety as we. It seems obvious but distraction is the enemy of focus. We can play ren music on ren instruments but we'll never be ren musicians. We're curators at best) I have a huge stock of English solos and trios (bass viol, cittern, lute) for which this approach works fine but Cutting (for example, whom I love) it is touch-and-go. I can translate the basses of Anne Markham's Pavin well enough but my favorite Sans Per Pavin is out of reach. It was a difficult decision but I'm at peace w/ it. Most of the English golden age song rep is doable too but brings me to the edge of what's possible on a 6c. And plenty of people play Dowland just fine in my neighborhood; they don't need me to muddy the water (John Smyth's Almain is good to go, and I'll just have to be content having heard the fantasies a zillion times ;) And yes, I have to tiptoe through Molinaro (another fave) but the trade-off is that I know the background of almost every chanson in Spinacino and can play most of them to my satisfaction. I can buy recordings of Molinaro and occasionally hear him in concert but I can also arrange a Spinacino-based vocal performance which I would never hear otherwise --or want to-- and learn a heck of a lot along theway. I have also found that I dug way deeper into the 6c repertory than if I had been splitting my time between Hely, Kapsberger, Dowland, Wiess _and_ been on the lookout for basso continuo jobs. I enjoy what I've learned and realize that it couldn't have happened otherwise. Then again, I could have explored even more if I didn't split my time w/ work. But probably still would have been content in a solely 6c-world. My 2 cents. Sean On Feb 7, 2009, at 7:43 AM, David Rastall wrote: On Feb 6, 2009, at 7:11 PM, jsl...@verizon.net wrote: Isn't it possible that playing several plucked instruments can be mutually reinforcing? If I spend all day playing the vihuela, won't that improve my lute playing? If I work on achieving perfect, pearl-like tones on my six-course, won't that improve my tone on the ten-course? If I learn to play the bass strings on my baroque lute, won't that help me on the theorbo basses? If I learn to play continuo on the theorbo, won't that make me a better all-round musician? Agreed. Absolutely. The lute world consists of a diversity of instruments, and off-hand I can't think of any professional virtuosi who have confined themselves to just one of them. My point is that I don't think their virtuosity has been diminished by the variety of instruments they have recorded on. Davidr dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date: 2/5/2009 11:34 AM
[LUTE] Re: Dilettantism
Dan; What's your definition of doing better? Gary - Original Message - From: Daniel Winheld dwinh...@comcast.net To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 10:18 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Dilettantism One thing I didn't address in my rant; Are we in the lute world systematically harming our playing standards, even the reputation of our instrument, by spreading ourselves too thin? Wouldn't we do better to specialise? As to harming playing standards (apart from time constraints) I find that archlute/Baroque lute practice mutually reinforce each other, archlute/vihuela reinforce each other, and 6-course lute/vihuela sort of reinforce each other. 6-course lute and Barque lute don't care if they never see each other; and the steel-string guitar is happy to ruin things for all the other instruments if practiced to excess. Specialization always helps when practice time is limited. I don't know about you all, or the instrument as a personified entity, but we won't even talk about my bad reputation. Dan -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date: 2/5/2009 11:34 AM
[LUTE] Paul O'Dette Interview with Bruce Duffie . . . . .
Dear Rat; I don't now if you'll be able to access this with your computer problemas, But if you are, I thought you might find this interview with Paul O'dette interesting if only for what he has to say about the way Beethoven is performed. Love, G [1]http://www.bruceduffie.com/odette2.html -- References 1. http://www.bruceduffie.com/odette2.html To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Dilettantism
You're either assuming or asserting they haven't. Both of which I'd be inclined to take issue with. Gary - Original Message - From: Peter Martin peter.l...@gmail.com To: Lute list lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 1:04 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Dilettantism My real question was about the highest professional standards, and specifically whether lutenists can ever hope to match the standards of top pianists or violinists, for example, while they persist in spreading their efforts over so many different instruments. Diversity is fun, but can a lutenist ever hope to attain the mastery of Murray Perahia or Alfred Brendel (and this is not just about virtuosity) when he is torn in so many directions? Excellence requires some hard choices to be made. P On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 5:57 PM, William Brohinsky [1]tiorbin...@gmail.com wrote: I'm suspecting that the real question Peter raised is being skirted by the respondents' reaction to the supposition of a charge of dilettantism. Now that I've caught up a little, I see that he isn't necessarily saying that lutenists tending to dilettantism is bad, just that other musicians' (and possibly the public's) opinion of lutenists may be suffering due to the lack of single-focus pros. That makes this a PR question, rather than a historical or technique question. For my part, I guess I've never felt that it was a problem. When I find a piece of music which includes lute, my music-making associates are more than happy to play it with me. None of them consider my lack of professional credentials. The people I know who have taken up lute never have given a second thought to whether the lutenist they heard who got them 'on the path' was professionally rated above the currently-esteemed violin meister. Quite the contrary, the lute seems to make its own following, and the archlute and theorbo and all the other variants have no problem drawing the unsuspecting guitarist in... ray To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Peter Martin Belle Serre La Caulie 81100 Castres France tel: 0033 5 63 35 68 46 e: [3]peter.l...@gmail.com web: [4]www.silvius.co.uk [5]http://absolute81.blogspot.com/ [6]www.myspace.com/sambuca999 [7]www.myspace.com/chuckerbutty -- References 1. mailto:tiorbin...@gmail.com 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 3. mailto:peter.l...@gmail.com 4. http://www.silvius.co.uk/ 5. http://absolute81.blogspot.com/ 6. http://www.myspace.com/sambuca999 7. http://www.myspace.com/chuckerbutty No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date: 2/5/2009 11:34 AM
[LUTE] Re: Dilettantism
It all depends on what one is trying to accomplish. If your goal is to become the best luter around and enjoy the accolades and privileges that accompany that position, it's probably imperative that you narrow your focus. If your goal is to explore and enjoy as much of this wonderful music as possible, exploring other instruments might be the way to go. Playing more than one instrument is a time honored tradition. Is it not true that the illustrious Francesco Canova da Milano, played gamba as well as lute? I feel that studying lute has made me a better guitarist and studying gamba has made me a better luter, etc. When asked how he maintained his creativity for so many years, Count Basie said, I don't worry about creativity. I do what I like to do, and if I'm creative that's great. If not, I'm doing what I like to do. Gary - Original Message - From: Christopher Stetson cstet...@email.smith.edu To: Lute list lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Peter Martin peter.l...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 11:31 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Dilettantism Dear Peter and all, I'm the one who prefers diversity to virtuosity, and I made a conscious decision not to try to play to a high professional standard. There are just too many wonderful instruments and too much fascinating music in the world for me to limit myself in that way, so I prefer to make my money elsewhere and enjoy making music when I can (and, possibly, I realized I just didn't have the chops to go pro!). Unfortunately, I've found that keeping up to even my low standards limits me to about 4 instruments at a time, max. But like I said, no chops! BTW, and just to clarify, dilettantism is not a charge coming from me. Best to all, and keep playing, Chris. Peter Martin peter.l...@gmail.com 2/6/2009 6:43 AM I've been bothered by the charge of dilettantism (someone who prefers diversity to virtuosity) which was raised on this list recently. How many different instruments is it possible to play to a high professional standard? One? Two? And how many do most lutenists try to play? Four? Eight? And the differences are not trivial: sizes, playing techniques, tunings, repertoire, notation... Hans Keller once wrote an essay denouncing Phoney Professions, one of which was the Viola Player. Phoney, because playing the viola is so similar to playing the violin that specialist viola players shouldn't need to exist. Yet they persist. The string player's quest for the highest possible standard on his/her instrument trumps Keller's logic. Are we in the lute world systematically harming our playing standards, even the reputation of our instrument, by spreading ourselves too thin? Wouldn't we do better to specialise? Peter (lute, theorbo, classical guitar, baroque guitar, ocarina...) -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date: 2/5/2009 11:34 AM
[LUTE] Re: players getting better--was Trench Fill
Louis Armstrong was criticized in his later years for not retiring because it was thought he had lost his chops. When told of this Wynton Marsalis responded with, Nuance is the epitome of technique! Gary - Original Message - From: Edward Martin e...@gamutstrings.com To: Mayes ma...@rowan.edu; David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net; lute-cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 3:13 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: players getting better--was Trench Fill Joseph, you are not a bad player at all - I liked what I heard in Cleveland. And, slower does NOT mean worse. ed At 02:04 PM 2/3/2009 -0500, Mayes wrote: OK Guilty as charged! I play worse. I find that the older I get - the faster I was. Joseph Mayes On 2/3/09 1:55 PM, David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Players getting better: They are better at everything. One can of course argue that they are getting worse, or, even worse, staying exactly the same--those would seem to be the options-- but I have watched the lute scene now for forty years, and we have come a long way, we play better, have better musical training, read continuo, have better instruments and techniques, understand style--not to say there is not room for improvement (warning--chart will follow) When I was playing in the late sixties, there were few or none continuo players, thumb under players, intruments were pretty bad. There were some VERY highly trained musicians, but only a very few. And so on. But every year, improvements. The improvements did not keep pace with recorder keyboard--the recorder players really mastered original notation, artoculation, and ornamentation--but gradual, visible, audible improvements. Hey--who here plays worse, come on, fess up old timers! dt To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.17/1931 - Release Date: 01/30/09 17:31:00 Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.10.16/1929 - Release Date: 2/1/2009 6:02 PM
[LUTE] Re: Two more videos
There's room for everybody. I'm not offended by someone having the score in front of them. Also I find it interesting that lute players would be modeling their performance practice on Madonna's. I think I like things to be a little looser than that. My favorite performances are those in which I feel like I'm eavesdropping on someone playing in their front room. The Hippie Luter, Gary - Original Message - From: Ron Fletcher ron.fletc...@ntlworld.com To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 6:33 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Two more videos Stewart wrote... In the pop world, we don't see singers' glued to their music. Imagine Madonna performing with a folder in her hand. Precisely...Just wouldn't see the point bg Ron (UK) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.10.16/1929 - Release Date: 2/1/2009 6:02 PM
[LUTE] Re: There is a traitor in our midst!
Duke Ellington used to say that he aspired to be a dilettante. Charles Ives father is reported to have said that music begins when the last person who's trying to make a living from it dies. When ased what he thought of the playing of Miles Davis, Cecil Taylor is reputed to have said, He doesn't play badly for a millionaire. To paraphrase Count Basie: I don't worry about virtuosity. I do what I like to do. If I'm a virtuoso, that's great. If not, I'm doing what I like to do. Gary - Original Message - From: Christopher Stetson cstet...@email.smith.edu To: lutelist Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 9:04 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: There is a traitor in our midst! Yes, Rob and all, I too take delight in all the music I play, therefore a dilettante. Not only that, I might even say that I love it, making me an amateur (though occasionally someone is generous enough to pay me for it)! I wear both titles with pride, and I'm not sure when these sobriquets became denigrating, though I could guess. I also appreciate the virtuosity, and concomitant hours of concentration and work put in, by those who are brave enough to depend on their music to make a living. Also agreed about simple pieces played simply, as I think my virtuoso friends would, too. Frankly, I think this tension may date back to the beginnings of music (and hence humanity?) itself. Once we gain some proficiency, we tend to cease being interested by the simple music that captivated us previously. I assume that the interest of virtuosic musicians in virtuosic music is genuine, i.e. born of love and delight, and therefore not to be denigrated either. I also think that Early Music, along with Folk Music has, in it's accessibility to musicians of many levels, made a tremendous contribution in bridging the gulf. I'm a child of the '60's: Everything is beautiful in it's own way. Chris. Rob MacKillop luteplay...@googlemail.com 1/18/2009 2:21 AM Christopher, I must be a dilettante. I'm certainly no virtuoso, although I have noticed that playing a simple piece simply is often harder than playing something fast with lots of notes leaping around. I've reached a useful level of technique on plucked instruments - useful in the sense that I can express myself. If that is to be denigrated, then so be it. I'm happy. Rob 2009/1/18 Christopher Stetson [1]cstet...@email.smith.edu Oh, and this too; you have to be able to live with being thought of (or actually being) something of a dilettante. Or, as a gentle friend of mine put it, someone who prefers diversity to virtuosity. C. -- References 1. mailto:cstet...@email.smith.edu To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.10.8/1899 - Release Date: 1/17/2009 5:50 PM
[LUTE] Re: Lutes were the earliest form of guitar developed in the thirteenth century
The internet is a bathroom wall. Gary - Original Message - From: Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com To: Lute Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 5:01 AM Subject: [LUTE] Lutes were the earliest form of guitar developed in the thirteenth century Lute and guitar history - th cutting edge: http://www.megaessays.com/viewpaper/4478.html To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.10.5/1885 - Release Date: 1/9/2009 7:59 PM
[LUTE] Re: Thought Provoking
Another possible conclusion: If it doesn't cost an arm and a leg and isn't dressed up in the finery of a fancy Boston theater, it can't be worth anything. A third possible conclusion: The people who paid a $100 to attend the concert in the theater, most probably were there to be seen at the scene rather than to hear the music. A fourth possible conclusion: The presentation is more important to the enjoyment of the meal than the food. A cynic is a frustrated romantic. Gary - Original Message - From: Ron Fletcher ron.fletc...@ntlworld.com To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 9:08 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Thought Provoking Slightly off topic, but I thought I should share this recent message... Subject: Thought Provoking A man sat at a metro station in Washington DC and started to play the violin; it was a cold December morning. He played six Bach pieces for about 45 minutes. During that time, since it was rush hour, it was calculated that a thousand people went through the station, most of them on their way to work. Three minutes went by and a middle aged man noticed there was musician playing. He slowed his pace and stopped for a few seconds and then hurried up to meet his schedule. A minute later, the violinist received his first dollar tip: a woman threw the money in the till and without stopping continued on her way. A few minutes later, a man leaned against the wall to listen to him, but he looked at his watch and started to walk again. Clearly he was late for work. The one who paid the most attention was a 3 year old boy. His mother urged him along, but the kid stopped to look at the violinist. Finally the mother pushed hard and the child continued to walk turning his head all the time. This action was repeated by several other children. All the parents, without exception, forced them to move on. In the 45 minutes the musician played, only 6 people stopped and stayed for a while. About 20 gave him money but continued to walk their normal pace. He collected $32. When he finished playing and silence took over, no one noticed it. No one applauded, nor was there any recognition. No one knew this but the violinist was Joshua Bell, one of the best musicians in the world. He played one of the most intricate pieces ever written with a violin worth 3.5 million dollars. Two days before his playing in the subway, Joshua Bell sold out at a theater in Boston and the seats average $100. This is a real story. Joshua Bell playing incognito in the metro station was organized by the Washington Post as part of a social experiment about perception, taste and priorities of people. The outlines were: in a commonplace environment at an inappropriate hour: Do we perceive beauty? Do we stop to appreciate it? Do we recognize the talent in an unexpected context? One of the possible conclusions from this experience could be: If we do not have a moment to stop and listen to one of the best musicians in the world playing the best music ever written, how many other things are we missing? May the new year bring unexpected beauty from everyday life! -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.10.4/1880 - Release Date: 1/7/2009 8:49 AM
[LUTE] Re: was Galliard after Laveche (William Ballet Lute Book), now: scan vs camera
I haven't used the LSA Microfilm Library for a while, but, as I remember, they used to give you the option of renting the microfilm or buying a hardcopy, although the quality of the hardcopy was considerably less than I could get from the microfilm using my library's equipment. Gary - Original Message - From: Stephen Fryer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Nancy Carlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: List LUTELIST lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 9:37 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: was Galliard after Laveche (William Ballet Lute Book), now: scan vs camera Nancy Carlin wrote: I love the idea of the LSA Microfilm library being digital, but wonder if it will happen in my lifetime. There is considerable concern that the libraries that provided those microfilms (a lot of them to me back in the 70s when I was Microfilm Librarian) would go ballistic if did anything more than loan out our copies of the films. From what I understand they cannot own the copyrights on the original materials because they are so old, but they do own it on the photography. Unfortunate but true. It makes the LSA microflim library of very little use to those of us who have no access to microfilm equipment. Stephen fryer To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.15/1833 - Release Date: 12/5/2008 7:08 PM
[LUTE] Re: was something, now vinyl
The free market at work. Gary - Original Message - From: David Tayler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 12:43 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: was something, now vinyl snip well, that's not something intrinsic to USB; IMHO you should be decrying cheap home electronics junk rather than USB specifically, perhaps with a proviso that much which is USB is fadish junk. Could be something out there which has a USB interface and is not junk. You are absolutely right, but there are some some lingering doubts remaining about USB for audio. Having said that, I'm listening right now on an EMU USB headphone amp/converter/recording interface that sounds awesome. It doesn't sound that different from a $3000 converter, it is small, easy to use, and has no power supply. And, miracle, it has an on-off switch, so when it is off it does not even pull 5 volts. But, it is sometimes a little buggy compared to my Firewire RME box. But hey, it rocks. [1]http://tinyurl.com/Usb-Emu Plug it in, and your computer sounds like a high end work station. Add a pair of Sennheiser HD580s with the 10 dollar cable from the HD600 and you can't be beat. Now if they only made a turntable. There are basically two issues here, one of which is the USB interface and the other is the turntable. First, the USB interface is not ideal for audio. So even though it is possible to make a USB interface with reasonably good audio, and even though many of the problems with USB audio have been solved, manufacturers simply assume that the USB crowd wants ease of use over sound quality. And, similarly, the PCI Express interface, the MADI interfaces and so on are aimed at the high end crowd, or people who work professionally and want to avoid the mouse and the audio on the same bus. They want a dedicated bus for the audio. So as a general rule, and there are some (but few) exceptions, the USB interfaces for computer simply are not as good. The EMU ones are the best of the low end, but they have intermittent driver problems. An I have never seen anyone with an EMU USB interface. I use one as an external soundcard, for $99 it can't be beat because it includes a terrific headphone amplifier. But I would not record anything on it. So, rightly or wrongly, the USB devices use cheaper parts in the analog section of the electronics, because, and, again, there are exceptions, they won't be used by professional recording engineers. So USB gets a bad rap, but the USB is not blameless because they set up several standards at the same time which were very confusing, resulting in cheaper hardware being advertised as high speed when, in fact, it was not When posting this article, I surveyed all of the available USB Turntables by reputable manufacturers. These turntables broke down into two categories. There were a large number in the $99-$150 range, then there were a small number in the $450 and up range. Only one of the high end models looked like something I would use, the Pro-ject model [2]http://tinyurl.com/projectTT . There are some other nice ones as well, you can spend a lot of money on a turntable. In the lower end, the ones I recommended not to buy, a waste of money, these turntables all use cheap parts. There were no USB turntables on the market that I would recommend. So this is not a limitation of the USB interface, it is a limitation of cheap, USB turntables. But the quality is connected to the niche that USB created--cheap, simple, hassle free connectivity--a concept which for most people is a good thing. But if you want it to sound good, which is important, I think, USB turntables are out. And the USB interface is not blameless here, its unsuitability for audio, coupled with a long history of driver problems--due, in part to different implementations of the USB interface, has contributed to USB primarily occupying a budget niche. The sad thing here, and, not to be cynical, this is just greed on the part of the manufacturers, is that the parts for the AD stage--the Analog to Digital conversion, are just so cheap now. The manufacturers are saying, I'm making ten million units, and if I use really cheap parts, I can shave two dollars of each unit. That's 20 million dollars. That is why they sound, in a word, cheesy. And that's a shame, but that is the way it works. Equally annoying are the companies that say, I'll spend twenty dollars more on parts, and sell it for four hundred dollars more. Once you get into the $500 range, one has to ask, is it better to spend the money on a USB turntable or get a really good computer interface, such as the RME, and hook it up to a dedicated turntable. And here, I think that for many people, they would prefer a device that functioned as a superb sound card for all of their audio listening, instead
[LUTE] Re: The Online Lute Player
I have to say, I'm not sure I agree with this policy of banning people from posting on the lutelist. I know that some people engage in ad hominem arguing, name calling, insults etc., but it seems to me one can always use the delete button to eliminate postings one finds objectionable. I regard this as the price of freedom, and I value freedom. The lutelist has become noticeably less dynamic and, for me, less interesting since Danyel, Matanya, et.al have been eliminated from the list. Some dissonance is essential to give the music life. Too much consonance and things become watered down and static. When Charles Ives was writing his string quartets, he reportedly wrote little dialogues between the instruments in the margins of the manuscript, and, in one, he had one of the violins say to the other, What's the matter, are you one of those white-livered weaklings who can't stand up and face a good dissonance like a man? How many people have to be offended before someone gets banned from the list? It seems to me only two or three. I'm always startled by posters who refer to the lutelist as my list or our list as if this forum belonged to a select group of insiders whose job it is to police the list and make sure it conforms to the vision of this group of insiders. I think the list is more vibrant and robust when it's treated as a public forum in which a hundred flowers bloom and a hundred thoughts contend. So I say buck up, keep the lutelist open and free and use the delete button if someone crosses the line. Best to All, Gary - Original Message - From: Rob MacKillop [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:57 AM Subject: [LUTE] The Online Lute Player Sorry this is so long... The recent Igor = The Devil thread has been gnawing away at me. He might have been clumsy in the way he expressed himself, but he was entitled to his view. However, he has highlighted the topic of the Online Lute Player, and what one might expect that to be, and that is what I would like to turn our attention to. In the days before YouTube, one would have expected a degree of professional standard from a recording artist (setting aside personal preference for one artist over another). Professional reviewers (rightly or wrongly) saw it as part of their job to inform their readers of who was hot and who was not, and why they thought so. YouTube has blown all that away. Someone who has just picked up his/her first guitar and decides to pluck it with a banana (not you, Val!), can reach an audience of thousands within days. You, the watcher-listener, have to make up your own mind whether something is 'good' or not. You can watch the video or not. I imagine Igor (and he is not alone) would like to see a return to a situation where one would expect a professional standard of performance and presentation. But that just isn't going to happen - well, I can't see any signs of it at the moment. David Taylor has raised two interesting points: 1. These videos give an insight into how the lute/guitar is actually played, and 2. the professionals are waiting until they can completely control the production process before submitting their 'performances' for public scrutiny (they can already do this, of course, if they have enough money or their record company are willing to pay for it). It would be wonderful if we could hear how the average lute player played in the 16th/17th centuries. We tend to assume that someone like Mary Burwel or Logy or some other high-profile amateur, would play well (within our present-day aesthetics). We have lute players today copying right-hand positions from paintings of amateurs who, for all we know, might have sounded terrible to their contemporaries. YT allows us to hear how (dare I say?) 'ordinary' people at the start of the 21st century played. That will be of use to future researchers, I'm sure. I consider myself as a semi-professional player. I have CD recordings and play concerts. Some years have been more busy than others, but I have never been in a position to make a living exclusively from lute playing. A few weeks ago the reality of who my audience is was brought home to me. I recorded the video of me playing the so-called archguitar. I did that early in the morning. I uploaded it, and then left the house to play a lunchtime concert in the local church in Edinburgh during the Edinburgh International Festival when the population of the city almost doubles. Bearing in mind that I have had three number one CDs in the Scottish classical charts, I might have been expected to get a decent-sized audience. There were six people. And that included my wife, daughter and the guy who opened the church doors. Three people paid - all pensioners, and therefore paid the lower rate - and two of them were blind. Why do I
[LUTE] Re: Lineage of early Guitars
Aside from octave stringing on the 4th and 5th cources, was not Francisco Gerau's tuning identical to strings 5 thru 1 of the modern guutar? Surely Gerau was not the first to use this non-reentrant tuning for the baroque guitar. Gary - Original Message - From: Monica Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Joshua Horn [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Vihuelalist [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 5:12 AM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Lineage of early Guitars This is really an impossible question short of writing a book on the subject. However - received wisdom I think is that the vihuela could originally be played with a bow, a plectrum or finger style - to whit vihuela de arco vihuela de penola vihuela de mano. However guitars or instruments called guitarra seem to have existed alongside the vihuela and it is not altogether clear whether this was simply a vihuela with fewer strings or derived from a different prototype. Be that as it may, the present day classical guitar is probably not a direct descendent of the vihuela - because in between you get my good friend the baroque guitar which had only five courses and a re-entrant tuning and was all the rage in the 17th and early 18th century. About the middle of the 18th century someone had the bright idea of putting a sixth course on it - or back on it ...and the rest... as they say ...is history. Hope that's helpful and I don't spark off a whole correspndence from people who disagree with my History of the guitar in a nutshell. Monica - Original Message - From: Joshua Horn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 11:11 AM Subject: [VIHUELA] Lineage of early Guitars Guys, I have read various sources on the web about the relation of the Vihuela to other stringed instruments. I am looking for information on the lineage of the modern Acoustic Guitars. I read on one site that the Vihuela was once a bowed instrument, is the Classical and Flamenco Guitars you see today direct relatives of the Vihuela, or are there other instruments that influenced them first? Josh -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1685 - Release Date: 9/22/2008 4:08 PM
[LUTE] Re: life or death
How about Dowland's Adieu for Master Oliver Cromwell , composed, I believe, to commemorate the death of his uncle? Gary - Original Message - From: LGS-Europe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 6:42 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: life or death Holborne's Last Will and Testament is a good one! As is the Countess of Pembroke's Funerals. David David van Ooijen [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.davidvanooijen.nl - Original Message - From: LGS-Europe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 3:21 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: life or death Rainer adS wrote: Funerals don't count, do they? O yes, but they do! They're all about life and death. Thanks for the titles. David David van Ooijen [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.davidvanooijen.nl To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.7/1631 - Release Date: 8/24/2008 12:15 PM
[LUTE] Re: life or death
Tobias Hume has both Life and Death in tablature for lyra viol, but can be played effectively on the lute. Gary - Original Message - From: LGS-Europe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 5:59 AM Subject: [LUTE] life or death Any lute pieces with either word in the title? Preferably English around 1600. David David van Ooijen [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.davidvanooijen.nl To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.6/1626 - Release Date: 8/21/2008 6:54 PM
[LUTE] Re: more general scams
As W.C.Fields' sainted father told him, Never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump. Gary - Original Message - From: Arthur Ness [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 5:14 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: more general scams I get these scams rather frequently. Another phishing technique is to obtain personal information by offering to sell discount prescription drugs from Canada. Your greed is part of the modus. It is a ruse to get your credit card number. But waiting this morning was a letter purporting to be from an official at the Central Bank of Africa, informing me that he was sending me eight hundred thousand dollars from some inheritance. But this one had a new twist, related to your UPS story. I would be able to withdraw the money (but not more than $2500 per day) from my local ATM using a master ATM card and PIN that he was sending me from Africa via FED EX. The ATM card would be concealed inside a magazine. I had to send all kinds of personal information to a fake FedEx e-mail address. And I was advised to act quickly because of the mounting $250/day security fees charged by FedEx. To retrieve my magazine I'd probably discover I'd have to pay several days of 250 dollar security fees.g Sometimes these scams come through the snail mail. Charlotte has gotten quite a few at the library. These guys (and gals?) are so busy, they make their own counterfeit Nigerian stamps. Millions if not billions of dollars have been lost to such scammers. It's a huge operation. If you offer a musical instrument for sale, or even private music lessons over the Internet (Alice Artz was targeted once), you are likely to attract their attention. The FBI and Scotland Yard both have web pages devoted to these scams. =AJN (Boston, Mass.)= This week's free download is Tchaikovsky's Serenade for Strings in C, Op. 48, performed by the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra; Yuri Simonov, conductor. To download, click on the CML link here http://mysite.verizon.net/arthurjness/ My Web Page: Scores http://mysite.verizon.net/vzepq31c/arthurjnesslutescores/ Other Matters: http://mysite.verizon.net/arthurjness/ === - Original Message - From: gary digman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 3:19 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: more general scams |I have not received the UPS thing, but I get emails which are phishing | attempts by individuals purporting to be PayPal. I have forwarded these | emails to PayPal and they have confirmed that the emails are indeed attempts | at phishing. Do not exhange personal information on the internet unless you | now whose on the other end, and, even then, be very, very careful. | | Anthony, I would suggest that you go to a public computer (library, | university, etc) to open the email. If it's a scam, you will know very soon | and your personal computer will be safe from any viruses. | | Gary | | - Original Message - | From: Anthony Hind [EMAIL PROTECTED] | To: Guy Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Lute List | lute@cs.dartmouth.edu | Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 9:16 AM | Subject: [LUTE] Re: more general scams | | | This is not the same issue, but like many of you, no doubt, I have | received several offers to share with a Nigerian banker the profits of a | person who has just died intestate. | Of course I didn't fall for that. However, a week ago I received a | message purporting to be from UPS about an undelivered parcel, and there | is an attachment to click on, | and I am told this includes a form for details I need to fill-in to be | able to receive this parcel. | Now this time, I very nearly clicked on the attachment, thinking perhaps | some lute strings, I had forgotten I had ordered, had just arrived. | However, something about it made me hesitate, I may be wrong and it may | be valid, but I think it is a clever new scam to get personal details, or | to spread a virus. | Have any of you received a similar message purporting to be from UPS. | Anthony | | | Le 12 août 08 à 17:38, Guy Smith a écrit : | | If you are selling an instrument over the internet, watch out for the | Nigerian scam (they'll offer to send you considerably more than the | purchase price and you are to send the extra back...). I got one of | these in | response to an ad for a tandem bicycle that I'm trying to sell, and I | advertised only on a private mailing list. I've heard of several other | similar incidents with tandems, and I imagine they could target lutes as | well. | | Guy | | -Original Message- | From: Wayne Cripps [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 8:26 AM | To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu | Subject: [LUTE] baroque guitar scam | | | | Hi folks - | | You probably know that I run a lutes for sale web page. at | http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc
[LUTE] Re: more general scams
I have not received the UPS thing, but I get emails which are phishing attempts by individuals purporting to be PayPal. I have forwarded these emails to PayPal and they have confirmed that the emails are indeed attempts at phishing. Do not exhange personal information on the internet unless you now whose on the other end, and, even then, be very, very careful. Anthony, I would suggest that you go to a public computer (library, university, etc) to open the email. If it's a scam, you will know very soon and your personal computer will be safe from any viruses. Gary - Original Message - From: Anthony Hind [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Guy Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 9:16 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: more general scams This is not the same issue, but like many of you, no doubt, I have received several offers to share with a Nigerian banker the profits of a person who has just died intestate. Of course I didn't fall for that. However, a week ago I received a message purporting to be from UPS about an undelivered parcel, and there is an attachment to click on, and I am told this includes a form for details I need to fill-in to be able to receive this parcel. Now this time, I very nearly clicked on the attachment, thinking perhaps some lute strings, I had forgotten I had ordered, had just arrived. However, something about it made me hesitate, I may be wrong and it may be valid, but I think it is a clever new scam to get personal details, or to spread a virus. Have any of you received a similar message purporting to be from UPS. Anthony Le 12 août 08 à 17:38, Guy Smith a écrit : If you are selling an instrument over the internet, watch out for the Nigerian scam (they'll offer to send you considerably more than the purchase price and you are to send the extra back...). I got one of these in response to an ad for a tandem bicycle that I'm trying to sell, and I advertised only on a private mailing list. I've heard of several other similar incidents with tandems, and I imagine they could target lutes as well. Guy -Original Message- From: Wayne Cripps [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 8:26 AM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] baroque guitar scam Hi folks - You probably know that I run a lutes for sale web page. at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute/forsale.html . I just got the first for sale scam - at least it seems like a scam to me.. I am Brad Baker.I came accross your wanted advert and email address on http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute/forsale.html#wanted I would like to inform you that i have 5 course baroque guitar For Sale @ 1,400 Euro(Give Away Price)including shipping to your front door in Finland via Courier express delivery.The price of this lutes are more than 2,500 euro.You can't get it this price(1,400 euro)anywhere.Hurry up now,this is give away price.Buy one and get one free Nokia mobile phone. Maybe I am wrong... maybe many respected luthiers are now supplying free cell phones with their usual merchandise.. but I would suggest that you be careful with any internet transactions with strangers. You can see the instruments at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/ lute/Baker/ There seem to be two different pairs of guitars and a fifth by itself. Maybe one of them is yours! Wayne To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.12/1599 - Release Date: 8/7/2008 8:49 PM
[LUTE] Re: Bizarre info request, bordering on advice request
...the choices are Electric Engineer and Electronics and Computer Engineering. I've been a programmer systems admin, and it's a bag of worms I don't want to have to deal with! Computer--worms? Gary - Original Message - From: William Brohinsky To: gary digman Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 4:42 AM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Bizarre info request, bordering on advice request On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 4:15 AM, gary digman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...bag of worms... Pun intended? Gary Maybe not? What's the pun? ray No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 5:26 AM -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Look what the cat brought in
Hi, Stewart; Rondollus : slip of the finger, sorry. Thanks for the info on them. When I purchased their Sabbatum cd, they gave me a free download of their Sanctum Rosarium cd, personnel: Maria Staak-voice, harp Marju Riisikamp-portative organ Veikko Kiiver-voice Peeter Klaas-fiddle Robert Staak-lute, harp Riho Ridbeck-percussion It is a beautiful cd. Mediaeval religious music. All the Best, Gary - Original Message - From: Stewart McCoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lute Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 1:50 PM Subject: [LUTE] Look what the cat brought in Dear Gary, The name of the group should really be spelt Rondellus, as it is on the CD. It is an early music group consisting of Robert Staak (lute, percussion, etc.) and his wife Maria who sings. Other people may be drafted in as need arises. Robert and Maria have been performing early music for many years in Estonia, and they occasionally venture to other lands. It is a pity they are not better known. They have made some recordings, mostly of mediaeval music. The CD of Black Sabbath songs was an interesting project, and I agree that the result is very effective. In fact this CD was discussed on this list back in 2002. I sent a message about it on 28th May 2002; the subject title was Italian and Disney arrangements for lute? Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: gary digman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 06 June 2008 08:12 To: lutelist Subject: [LUTE] Re: look what the cat brought in I have the cd by Rondollus (sic), an Estonian early music group. It is surprizing how well Ozzy and Geezer and Tony's tunes work as early music. Great fun. Gary P.S. The website has been up for three or four years. It probably isn't getting the maintenance and attention it once did. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LGS-Europe [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Rob MacKillop [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 6:56 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: look what the cat brought in Rob try iTunes. At least you can get a 30 second preview. Kerry Rob MacKillop [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I couldn't get any of the sound files to work. Pity. Rob 2008/6/5 LGS-Europe [EMAIL PROTECTED]: http://www.sabbatum.com/ :-) David David van Ooijen [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.davidvanooijen.nl To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1486 - Release Date: 6/5/2008 6:29 PM
[LUTE] Re: Fuenllana 5c vihuela
Assuming that the 6c vihuela was tuned like a 6c lute, removing the chanterelle will produce at least one baroque (5c) guitar tuning (Guerau). Gary - Original Message - From: Rob MacKillop [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Michael Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 9:53 AM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Fuenllana 5c vihuela Yes, the string missing is the chanterelle, not the bass as I said. I knew that, it's just that my brain is getting old... Interesting idea about the broken chanterelle - the beginning of a new genre? Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1488 - Release Date: 6/6/2008 5:48 PM
[LUTE] Re: look what the cat brought in
I have the cd by Rondollus (sic), an Estonian early music group. It is surprizing how well Ozzy and Geezer and Tony's tunes work as early music. Great fun. Gary P.S. The website has been up for three or four years. It probably isn't getting the maintenance and attention it once did. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LGS-Europe [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Rob MacKillop [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 6:56 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: look what the cat brought in Rob try iTunes. At least you can get a 30 second preview. Kerry Rob MacKillop [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I couldn't get any of the sound files to work. Pity. Rob 2008/6/5 LGS-Europe [EMAIL PROTECTED]: http://www.sabbatum.com/ :-) David David van Ooijen [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.davidvanooijen.nl To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1486 - Release Date: 6/5/2008 6:29 PM
[LUTE] Re: Francesco and the viola da mano
I seem to recall reading that Francesco played viola da gamba as well as lute. Gary - Original Message - From: Rob MacKillop [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Antonio Corona [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 1:38 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Francesco and the viola da mano Thanks Antonio. So, allow me to simplify things, at least for my own benefit, and forgive me if I over simplify. I'm just thinking out loud... The vihuela de mano was created in Valencia and found its way to Naples where it became popular, more popular than the lute. Some Italian makers started making their own version which they called the viola da mano. Eventually there emerged two apparently distinct types, Spanish and Italian. The Italian version seems to have kept the classic viol shape with deep indents on the sides, while the Spanish version smoothed out the sides, as with the Raimondi drawing, or the figure of eight, almost classical guitar shape of Milan's book. Both types were used in Italy, either imported or copied, and the Spanish types were referred to as Spanish lutes or lyras. Isabella d'Este asks for a Spanish type, and, importantly, insists on it being made from ebony. Although there seems to have been a distinction in the physical aspects of the Italian and Spanish viola/vihuela, the repertoire could be played on either instrument. The Borgias, being originally Spanish, were important in spreading the popularity of the vihuela/viola to Rome and the northern states. Francesco, therefore, did not need to live in the South to come across the viola. His 1536 book mentions the viola before the lute: *Intavolatura de Viola o vero Lauto*. It was printed in Naples where the viola was most popular. This raises the possibility that Francesco did NOT play the viola, but its name was given chief prominence in order to boost sales in its area of publication...? However, it is certainly possible that he DID play the viola alongside the lute early in his career, but dropped the viola when it declined in popularity in favour of the lute. Two Neapolitan viola da mano players, Dentice and Severino, were active in both Italy and Spain, and their works could be added to the canon of vihuela literature. OK? Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1481 - Release Date: 6/3/2008 7:31 PM
[LUTE] Re: Frets
I've always done it this way (bridge to nut), allows one to pull the fret into place over a longer portion of the neck ensuring a snug fit, except for the fret closest to the nut of course. Gary - Original Message - From: Sean Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lute Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 3:07 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Frets On May 9, 2008, at 4:28 AM, Ed Durbrow wrote: On May 9, 2008, at 4:14 PM, Mathias Rösel wrote: I'd love to red some recommended diamtres for double frets. My experience has been so far that there was buzzing all the time I don't have them on now, but when I did, I used to tie two single frets of slightly different diameters. Once they wear for a while the buzzing will disappear, I think. It does. I've been using this system for a while now and like it just fine. I use the same diameter and always discard the older (on the nut side) strand and put the new one on the bridge side. Sometimes I get a little color/sonic texture but it don't bother me none around the house. One question. When redoing an entire neck of frets I've always from the little frets and worked my way to the nut. Do others do it this way too? Sean To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.14/1425 - Release Date: 5/9/2008 12:38 PM
[LUTE] Re: Kind of explanatiom?
That's the nicest thing anyone's said to me today. Gary - Original Message - From: vance wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; gary digman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 6:22 AM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Kind of explanatiom? Try sitting on a nail. - Original Message - From: gary digman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 8:34 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Kind of explanatiom? I, for one, am not offended by your comments, Arto. Keep making some of us (Americans) uncomfortable. Gary - Original Message - From: vance wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 3:54 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Kind of explanatiom? In other words; I'm sorry I mentioned it but as long as I did let me add a few more faggots to the fire. Why don't you just stop? You have no idea how many people you offend Arto. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 3:44 PM Subject: [LUTE] Kind of explanatiom? Dear lutenists, the eve of 1st May is kind of party day here north. My mails about the torture by the US of A. was affected by that fact. I do really know that the possible crimes of the US government really have nothing to do with the lute list! So my sincere apologies for my mis-use of the List! Kind of explanation: Already during the Vietnam war - I was a schoolboy then - I was strongly against the so called American imperialism. But never then could I imagine that they in USA could ever leave the inheritance of the period of the Enlightment, the time of Newton et al., the time when torture was excluded from the repertoire of modern society. Now we have it again - kind of Spanish inquisition by one of the (at least until now?) leading societies of our world. For me that is very hard to stand. All the best, Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.7/1409 - Release Date: 5/1/2008 8:39 AM -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.7/1408 - Release Date: 4/30/2008 6:10 PM -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.7/1411 - Release Date: 5/2/2008 8:02 AM -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.7/1408 - Release Date: 4/30/2008 6:10 PM
[LUTE] Re: Kind of explanatiom?
Surely you jest. Gary - Original Message - From: Jim Abraham [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 1:23 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Kind of explanatiom? However -- I find the lute list to be in general refreshingly free of invective and antagonism. I hope it will remain so, and not degenerate to a condition resembling rec.arts.classical.guitar. May art continue to transcend politics. Jim On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 4:20 PM, Jim Abraham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Arto: Speak truth to power, baby. I an am American who hopes to be proud of America again someday. Bush, Cheney, and Kissinger should be right after Charles Taylor Jim On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 2:29 PM, Daniel Ramey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ROFL I normally just lurk here, but I have to say something now. Dude, I thought you guys were fuddy-duddyish, but this fire is starting to burn. :-) I am an American, and a citizen of the United States of America. I am not offended, but man.. I believe I can fax you some tact if you are running out. I love this Lute list. I have gotten good advice here. It allows me to read, learn and feel like I might someday become a decent lutenist. So let us all forgive Arto for spilling his political opinions onto the list, and admit as artists that we all have to vomit our emotions occasionally! I forgive you Arto. Thanks for the many wonderful posts you have made to the list. Cheers, Daniel Long time lurker and wanna-be lute player. ;-) -Original Message- From: Roman Turovsky [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 6:51 AM To: lutelist; gary digman Subject: [LUTE] Re: Kind of explanatiom? What this country needs is more moxie, and a couple of years of food rationing. RT I, for one, am not offended by your comments, Arto. Keep making some of us (Americans) uncomfortable. Gary - Original Message - From: vance wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 3:54 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Kind of explanatiom? In other words; I'm sorry I mentioned it but as long as I did let me add a few more faggots to the fire. Why don't you just stop? You have no idea how many people you offend Arto. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 3:44 PM Subject: [LUTE] Kind of explanatiom? Dear lutenists, the eve of 1st May is kind of party day here north. My mails about the torture by the US of A. was affected by that fact. I do really know that the possible crimes of the US government really have nothing to do with the lute list! So my sincere apologies for my mis-use of the List! Kind of explanation: Already during the Vietnam war - I was a schoolboy then - I was strongly against the so called American imperialism. But never then could I imagine that they in USA could ever leave the inheritance of the period of the Enlightment, the time of Newton et al., the time when torture was excluded from the repertoire of modern society. Now we have it again - kind of Spanish inquisition by one of the (at least until now?) leading societies of our world. For me that is very hard to stand. All the best, Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htmlhttp://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.7/1409 - Release Date: 5/1/2008 8:39 AM -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.7/1408 - Release Date: 4/30/2008 6:10 PM __ D O T E A S Y - Join the web hosting revolution! http://www.doteasy.com -- -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.7/1408 - Release Date: 4/30/2008 6:10 PM
[LUTE] Re: String Conversion Table
Thank you, Roman. Most useful. Gary - Original Message - From: Roman Turovsky To: BAROQUE-LUTE Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] String Conversion Table Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 15:42:19 -0400 A useful chart- http://www.ianwatchorn.com.au/String%20Conversion%20Table.pdf RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Want an e-mail address like mine? Get a free e-mail account today at www.mail.com! --
[LUTE] Re: Kind of explanatiom?
I, for one, am not offended by your comments, Arto. Keep making some of us (Americans) uncomfortable. Gary - Original Message - From: vance wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 3:54 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Kind of explanatiom? In other words; I'm sorry I mentioned it but as long as I did let me add a few more faggots to the fire. Why don't you just stop? You have no idea how many people you offend Arto. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 3:44 PM Subject: [LUTE] Kind of explanatiom? Dear lutenists, the eve of 1st May is kind of party day here north. My mails about the torture by the US of A. was affected by that fact. I do really know that the possible crimes of the US government really have nothing to do with the lute list! So my sincere apologies for my mis-use of the List! Kind of explanation: Already during the Vietnam war - I was a schoolboy then - I was strongly against the so called American imperialism. But never then could I imagine that they in USA could ever leave the inheritance of the period of the Enlightment, the time of Newton et al., the time when torture was excluded from the repertoire of modern society. Now we have it again - kind of Spanish inquisition by one of the (at least until now?) leading societies of our world. For me that is very hard to stand. All the best, Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.7/1409 - Release Date: 5/1/2008 8:39 AM -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.7/1408 - Release Date: 4/30/2008 6:10 PM
[LUTE] Re: Recercare
Why is who's better so important? Is this a race? Gary - Original Message - From: igor . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute-cs. dartmouth. edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 9:08 AM Subject: [LUTE] Recercare http://youtube.com/watch?v=lEyk0jOIagw thanks Val ! beautiful performance . p.s. i know i am the one without message here, but enlighten me please and explain why P.o'dette or Barto are better than Val ? -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.22.3/1354 - Release Date: 4/1/2008 5:38 AM
[LUTE] Re: Karamazov as a circus musician
Spike Jones said, If you're going to shoot off a gun in a tune, you better have good time. Gary - Original Message - From: Sean Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lute Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:02 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Karamazov as a circus musician For the period in question, 1516-1598 I should think vihuelas are well within reason and fiddles and bows went in a lot of directions. Capos don't bother me much either. It would be like forbidding putting your lute against the right period of table for a little amplification. Or, dare I say suggest it, forbidding reading modern scores. It would be nice and maybe icing on the cake but eventually I'll judge the performance to whether it atchieves the goals of the music, the composer, the players and the director. When a Spike Jones score calls for a C# pistol shot, we really should find a C# pistol but do we really need to find a period revolver? Btw, is that Lee Santana playing percussion? Sean On Mar 23, 2008, at 9:34 AM, igor . wrote: not HIP enough ! Savall plays an early renaissance bow _ Guitarist using Dunlop capo_ Karamazov playing Vihuela _ what a circus p.s. more ValeryThomas please -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1335 - Release Date: 3/19/2008 9:54 AM
[LUTE] Re: Forqueray
...believe it or not...? Shouldn't it be, ...believe it or don't..? Sister Mary Diesel (ruler in hand). PS: I'm not quite sure why this thread is becoming so acrimonious. - Original Message - From: David Tayler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 12:05 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Forqueray Ma zezash me. Moja je lebdjelica puna jegulja :) You can correct my spelling anytime, I don't mind! Some of these words like affect, rhetoric are actually right, believe it or not. dt But i promise to learn to spell proper English once David Tayler learn to spell proper affekte,rhetorique,musical ideas and dynamic To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1328 - Release Date: 3/13/2008 11:31 AM
[LUTE] Re: Karamazov
Where can I find this recording? Monk was anything but sloppy. His music was precise and exacting as any will discover on attempting to play it. And oh how he swung! Gary - Original Message - From: Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: gary digman [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 6:21 AM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Karamazov There are some out there who think Monk was a sloppy player. Karamazov is also a Monk fan (as I am, as well), and, guess what- he recorded a few Monk tunes on a small THEORBO (single-strung). Very well done. RT - Original Message - From: gary digman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 4:43 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Karamazov Is there somebody out there who thinks Thelonius Monk was incompetent?! FYI Monk was a master stride pianist among other things. Stride piano is one the most challenging jazz styles. If you think Monk was incompetent, I challenge you to play a couple of choruses of Trinkle Tinkle. Then we'll talk. Gary - Original Message - From: Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: howard posner [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Lutelist Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 3:37 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Karamazov No, no, you misunderstand me. I wasn't trying to insult you, Ah, but it's you who misunderstands me. I didn't think you were trying to insult me, or commenting about me. I was just pointing out that self-expression without competence isn't terribly rewarding, at least for anyone other than the self-expresser. I agree with that. With a BIG PROVISO- self-expression without competence is JUST NOT POSSIBLE, at least has not been observed in the wild (and don't try to invoke Th. Monk). And Karamazov is supremely competent: his bizarre antics are absolutely meaningful and justified musically. RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.9/1238 - Release Date: 1/22/2008 8:12 PM -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.9/1238 - Release Date: 1/22/2008 8:12 PM
[LUTE] Re: Karamazov
Is there somebody out there who thinks Thelonius Monk was incompetent?! FYI Monk was a master stride pianist among other things. Stride piano is one the most challenging jazz styles. If you think Monk was incompetent, I challenge you to play a couple of choruses of Trinkle Tinkle. Then we'll talk. Gary - Original Message - From: Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: howard posner [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Lutelist Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 3:37 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Karamazov No, no, you misunderstand me. I wasn't trying to insult you, Ah, but it's you who misunderstands me. I didn't think you were trying to insult me, or commenting about me. I was just pointing out that self-expression without competence isn't terribly rewarding, at least for anyone other than the self-expresser. I agree with that. With a BIG PROVISO- self-expression without competence is JUST NOT POSSIBLE, at least has not been observed in the wild (and don't try to invoke Th. Monk). And Karamazov is supremely competent: his bizarre antics are absolutely meaningful and justified musically. RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.9/1238 - Release Date: 1/22/2008 8:12 PM
[LUTE] Re: Doubling The Parts?
Timbre is an element of musical expression as well as pitch. Why does a composer have an oboe and a violin or a bassoon and a trombone play the same part? Because the timbre of the combined sound is different than each separately. Gary - Original Message - From: David Rastall To: baroque Lutelist Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Doubling The Parts? Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 10:10:13 -0500 This question was prompted by looking at the Concerto in Gm by Lauffensteiner just posted on Rob's site: generally speaking, not just with WJL but in other trio sonatas and pieces of that sort, why is it that the lute part doubles the solo instrumental part so closely? David Rastall [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Got No Time? Shop Online for Great Gift Ideas! http://mail.shopping.com/?linkin_id Euro 33174 --
