[LUTE] Re: Tablature Mandore Guitare
Thank you Mathias Indeed I noticed the gallichon tuning, and wrote: Interestingly one tuning on fol 6 is given as for the 'Calledono' which I presume refers to the gallichon thus once again showing an interchange in usage between the mandora and gallichon - though the tuning given is not one I recognise from other sources. Regarding the headfing on 48v, does it actually read 'et'? I see 'A' which is why I wrote: whatever this meant to the scribe! Though I suppose it could simply be a shorthand for 'et' - but I didn't wish to rule out the possibility that it implied a joint name for a single instrument ie perhaps a guitar in mandora shape ( or even mandora in a guitar shape). Other than body shape, the big difference between the E tuned 5 course mandora and the guitar is how the basses are disposed: ie bourdons on lower courses with octave strings placed on the treble side. However, I don't think we should rule out the possibility that by the early 18th century octave strings were also placed on the treble side on many guitars. In my view contemporary sources such as the Deisel MSs work best with this arrangement. But mere speculation of course.. Martyn --- On Mon, 26/3/12, Mathias RAP:sel mathias.roe...@t-online.de wrote: From: Mathias RAP:sel mathias.roe...@t-online.de Subject: [LUTE] Re: Tablature Mandore Guitare To: 'Lute Dmth' lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Monday, 26 March, 2012, 16:38 The tablature is for guitar or mandora (a 6th course is required on the earlier folios). Folio 48r shows the tuning with a 6th course (at nominal G ie a tone below the 5th course) so this certainly looks like mandora music. The intervals between the highest five courses is identical on both instruments and most of the pieces could be played on the 5 course guitar too. Did you note the instructions on fol. 24 seqq? They are obviously intended for the 5c calichon, tuned g - d - Bb - F - C. In this context the heading on fol. 48v is very interesting 'Accordo Chytarra A Mandora' aEUR whatever this meant to the scribe. As I said, the headline reads: Accordo ChytarA| et MandorA|, meaning tuning of the guitar and the mandora. Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Tablature Mandore Guitare
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Dear Martyn,
The enlarged screenshot makes it pretty clear IMO that the word reads et
with a faded e-loop.
Indeed I noticed the gallichon tuning, and wrote: Interestingly one
tuning on fol 6 is given as for the 'Calledono' which I presume refers
to the gallichon thus once again showing an interchange in usage
between the mandora and gallichon - though the tuning given is not one
I recognise from other sources.
Hm, on fol. 6r I see a gavotte and a somewhat strange scale with wrong
pitch names (suppose its a tool for transposing from sight). And on fol. 6v
I see a Schmidt Courent. No charts on fol. 16, 26, 36, 46, 56, 66, 76, 86.
There are alfabeto and tuning instructions on fol. 96, but they are intended
for the guitar, and the tuning is not a new one but a different way of
tuning, i.e. in octaves and fifths (with a mistake in measure 1, as 1a + 3f
equals a major third).
On p. 24v seq, the headline that I can see reads Fundamentales Concentus in
Callizon, i.e. either chords in root position or basic chords on the
Callichon. Considering fol. 25r, I prefer the latter.
Other
than body shape, the big difference between the E tuned 5 course
mandora and the guitar
There are quite a few sources which require mandoras with their 5th courses
in G (the Brescianello suites spring to mind). The headline on fol. 48v
seems to imply that the guitar and the mandora were considered different
instruments with identical tunings.
Mathias
--- On Mon, 26/3/12, Mathias RAP:sel
mailto:mathias.roe...@t-online.de mathias.roe...@t-online.de
wrote:
From: Mathias RAP:sel mailto:mathias.roe...@t-online.de
mathias.roe...@t-online.de
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Tablature Mandore Guitare
To: 'Lute Dmth' mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: Monday, 26 March, 2012, 16:38
The tablature is for guitar or mandora (a 6th course is required
on the
earlier folios). Folio 48r shows the tuning with a 6th course (at
nominal G ie a tone
below the 5th course) so this certainly looks like mandora music.
The
intervals
between the highest five courses is identical on both instruments
and
most of
the pieces could be played on the 5 course guitar too.
Did you note the instructions on fol. 24 seqq? They are obviously
intended
for the 5c calichon, tuned g - d - Bb - F - C.
In this context the heading on fol. 48v is very interesting
'Accordo
Chytarra A Mandora' aEUR whatever this meant to the scribe.
As I said, the headline reads: Accordo ChytarA| et MandorA|, meaning
tuning
of the guitar and the mandora.
Mathias
To get on or off this list see list information at
[1] http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
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[LUTE] Re: Tablature Mandore Guitare
Indeed I noticed the gallichon tuning, and wrote: Interestingly one tuning on fol 6 is given as for the 'Calledono' which I presume refers to the gallichon thus once again showing an interchange in usage between the mandora and gallichon - though the tuning given is not one I recognise from other sources. Apologies, now I see what you mean. That's on fol. 3r (= p. 5). The word actually reads Callezono. There are three tunings. The first two of them are intended for the 5c callichon, whereas the third tuning is for the 6string viol, as indicated above the system (Accord pro sex chordis / Aliter Viola di Gamb[a]). The first tuning is a - e - c - G - D. That is a standard callichon tuning IIRC what Pietro Prosser wrote about it. The second tuning is somewhat faulty in that the names do not match the pitches. There is a bass clef prescribed. The notes are b - f - c - F - C. Yet the names written besides the upper three notes are g, d, a. They would match in the treble clef, but not with the bass clef. Wrong notes and correct names? I don't think so. I should think that the correct alternative callichon tuning is bb - f - c - F - C. The third tuning is that of a standard bass viol (in D). That might give a clue as for the solo music for the viol (fol. 33v 47v). Fol. 5r 33r is a bass part for the accompaniment of arias to be sung. Among them, I stumbled upon the air Sommes nous pas trop heureux by Lully (9v). Fol. 48 96 contain solo music for the mandora, closing with a long set of variations on Les Folies d'Espagne. On fol. 96 is a chart with alfabeto, followed by an air for the guitar (Man weiß bey dießer zeit von keinem Freund = no friends around, these days). The rest consists of duets for the viol as treble (betrayed by some dyads) and possibly the callichon as bass instruments, including a set of arrangements of tunes from Lully's opera Belloferon. Apparently, the guitar and the mandora were considered different not only regarding their respective shapes, but also in terms of playing technique and its notation. There is no alfabeto (and, inferentially, no strumming) in the mandora parts of the ms. Mathias Hm, on fol. 6r I see a gavotte and a somewhat strange scale with wrong pitch names (suppose its a tool for transposing from sight). And on fol. 6v I see a Schmidt Courent. No charts on fol. 16, 26, 36, 46, 56, 66, 76, 86. There are alfabeto and tuning instructions on fol. 96, but they are intended for the guitar, and the tuning is not a new one but a different way of tuning, i.e. in octaves and fifths (with a mistake in measure 1, as 1a + 3f equals a major third). On p. 24v seq, the headline that I can see reads Fundamentales Concentus in Callizon, i.e. either chords in root position or basic chords on the Callichon. Considering fol. 25r, I prefer the latter. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Tablature Mandore Guitare
So I wonder why, from folio 48r to 60 the tab use a low course, some notes below the fifth line of the tab, often (if not all time ? I have to look again) open string, and it is not used any more from folio 61 to the end of tab ? For me this last part of tab is perhaps intended for guitar as the title named both instrument, guitar and mandora. (seems the scribe is not the same...) -Message d'origine- De : lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] De la part de Mathias Rösel Envoyé : mardi 27 mars 2012 16:04 À : 'Martyn Hodgson' Cc : 'Lute List' Objet : [LUTE] Re: Tablature Mandore Guitare Indeed I noticed the gallichon tuning, and wrote: Interestingly one tuning on fol 6 is given as for the 'Calledono' which I presume refers to the gallichon thus once again showing an interchange in usage between the mandora and gallichon - though the tuning given is not one I recognise from other sources. Apologies, now I see what you mean. That's on fol. 3r (= p. 5). The word actually reads Callezono. There are three tunings. The first two of them are intended for the 5c callichon, whereas the third tuning is for the 6string viol, as indicated above the system (Accord pro sex chordis / Aliter Viola di Gamb[a]). The first tuning is a - e - c - G - D. That is a standard callichon tuning IIRC what Pietro Prosser wrote about it. The second tuning is somewhat faulty in that the names do not match the pitches. There is a bass clef prescribed. The notes are b - f - c - F - C. Yet the names written besides the upper three notes are g, d, a. They would match in the treble clef, but not with the bass clef. Wrong notes and correct names? I don't think so. I should think that the correct alternative callichon tuning is bb - f - c - F - C. The third tuning is that of a standard bass viol (in D). That might give a clue as for the solo music for the viol (fol. 33v 47v). Fol. 5r 33r is a bass part for the accompaniment of arias to be sung. Among them, I stumbled upon the air Sommes nous pas trop heureux by Lully (9v). Fol. 48 96 contain solo music for the mandora, closing with a long set of variations on Les Folies d'Espagne. On fol. 96 is a chart with alfabeto, followed by an air for the guitar (Man weiß bey dießer zeit von keinem Freund = no friends around, these days). The rest consists of duets for the viol as treble (betrayed by some dyads) and possibly the callichon as bass instruments, including a set of arrangements of tunes from Lully's opera Belloferon. Apparently, the guitar and the mandora were considered different not only regarding their respective shapes, but also in terms of playing technique and its notation. There is no alfabeto (and, inferentially, no strumming) in the mandora parts of the ms. Mathias Hm, on fol. 6r I see a gavotte and a somewhat strange scale with wrong pitch names (suppose its a tool for transposing from sight). And on fol. 6v I see a Schmidt Courent. No charts on fol. 16, 26, 36, 46, 56, 66, 76, 86. There are alfabeto and tuning instructions on fol. 96, but they are intended for the guitar, and the tuning is not a new one but a different way of tuning, i.e. in octaves and fifths (with a mistake in measure 1, as 1a + 3f equals a major third). On p. 24v seq, the headline that I can see reads Fundamentales Concentus in Callizon, i.e. either chords in root position or basic chords on the Callichon. Considering fol. 25r, I prefer the latter. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Tablature Mandore Guitare
So I wonder why, from folio 48r to 60 the tab use a low course, some notes below the fifth line of the tab, often (if not all time ? I have to look again) open string, and it is not used any more from folio 61 to the end of tab ? For me this last part of tab is perhaps intended for guitar as the title named both instrument, guitar and mandora. (seems the scribe is not the same...) You are right, the open 6th course is exclusively used on fol. 4860r. And there may be two distinct scribes (discernible by their respective capital M). Furthermore, you may distinguish three portions. The pieces on fol. 4860 have no numbers or other order. Fol. 60v 76r contain eight parties with numbers, followed by a long row of 56 numbered pieces on fol. 76v96r. That doesn't allow, however, for the conclusion that the portion on fol. 60v96r is intended for the guitar, as there is a duet for two mandoras in the 5th partita on fol. 70v 71r. Mathias Indeed I noticed the gallichon tuning, and wrote: Interestingly one tuning on fol 6 is given as for the 'Calledono' which I presume refers to the gallichon thus once again showing an interchange in usage between the mandora and gallichon - though the tuning given is not one I recognise from other sources. Apologies, now I see what you mean. That's on fol. 3r (= p. 5). The word actually reads Callezono. There are three tunings. The first two of them are intended for the 5c callichon, whereas the third tuning is for the 6string viol, as indicated above the system (Accord pro sex chordis / Aliter Viola di Gamb[a]). The first tuning is a - e - c - G - D. That is a standard callichon tuning IIRC what Pietro Prosser wrote about it. The second tuning is somewhat faulty in that the names do not match the pitches. There is a bass clef prescribed. The notes are b - f - c - F - C. Yet the names written besides the upper three notes are g, d, a. They would match in the treble clef, but not with the bass clef. Wrong notes and correct names? I don't think so. I should think that the correct alternative callichon tuning is bb - f - c - F - C. The third tuning is that of a standard bass viol (in D). That might give a clue as for the solo music for the viol (fol. 33v 47v). Fol. 5r 33r is a bass part for the accompaniment of arias to be sung. Among them, I stumbled upon the air Sommes nous pas trop heureux by Lully (9v). Fol. 48 96 contain solo music for the mandora, closing with a long set of variations on Les Folies d'Espagne. On fol. 96 is a chart with alfabeto, followed by an air for the guitar (Man weiß bey dießer zeit von keinem Freund = no friends around, these days). The rest consists of duets for the viol as treble (betrayed by some dyads) and possibly the callichon as bass instruments, including a set of arrangements of tunes from Lully's opera Belloferon. Apparently, the guitar and the mandora were considered different not only regarding their respective shapes, but also in terms of playing technique and its notation. There is no alfabeto (and, inferentially, no strumming) in the mandora parts of the ms. Mathias Hm, on fol. 6r I see a gavotte and a somewhat strange scale with wrong pitch names (suppose its a tool for transposing from sight). And on fol. 6v I see a Schmidt Courent. No charts on fol. 16, 26, 36, 46, 56, 66, 76, 86. There are alfabeto and tuning instructions on fol. 96, but they are intended for the guitar, and the tuning is not a new one but a different way of tuning, i.e. in octaves and fifths (with a mistake in measure 1, as 1a + 3f equals a major third). On p. 24v seq, the headline that I can see reads Fundamentales Concentus in Callizon, i.e. either chords in root position or basic chords on the Callichon. Considering fol. 25r, I prefer the latter. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Tablature Mandore Guitare
Dear Valéry, As for your initial question, the rondeau on fol. 51v is listed by Peter Steur with ten concordances: 1. A-ETgoëssV / 28v | 2. CZ-Bm189 / 108 (mandora) | 3. D-Gs84k / 40 | 4. GB-HAB2 / 181 (Sm 505) | 5. PL-Wn396 / 15v | 6. S-Klm 4a / 4v (keyboard) | 7. S-Klm21072 / 77v | 8. S-L G37 / 21 | 9. US-NHubBittX / 32 | 10. Washington Leeds / 36 (archlute) So, one may conclude that it probably was penned by Losy. Mathias Thanks again for all precisions. Alas I don't have a mandora. I tried to play some pieces with the gutiar, nice music, quite easy. All the best Valéry -Message d'origine- De : Mathias Rösel [mailto:mathias.roe...@t-online.de] Envoyé : mardi 27 mars 2012 17:49 À : 'Valéry Sauvage' Cc : Lute List Objet : Re: Tablature Mandore Guitare So I wonder why, from folio 48r to 60 the tab use a low course, some notes below the fifth line of the tab, often (if not all time ? I have to look again) open string, and it is not used any more from folio 61 to the end of tab ? For me this last part of tab is perhaps intended for guitar as the title named both instrument, guitar and mandora. (seems the scribe is not the same...) You are right, the open 6th course is exclusively used on fol. 4860r. And there may be two distinct scribes (discernible by their respective capital M). Furthermore, you may distinguish three portions. The pieces on fol. 4860 have no numbers or other order. Fol. 60v 76r contain eight parties with numbers, followed by a long row of 56 numbered pieces on fol. 76v96r. That doesn't allow, however, for the conclusion that the portion on fol. 60v96r is intended for the guitar, as there is a duet for two mandoras in the 5th partita on fol. 70v 71r. Mathias Indeed I noticed the gallichon tuning, and wrote: Interestingly one tuning on fol 6 is given as for the 'Calledono' which I presume refers to the gallichon thus once again showing an interchange in usage between the mandora and gallichon - though the tuning given is not one I recognise from other sources. Apologies, now I see what you mean. That's on fol. 3r (= p. 5). The word actually reads Callezono. There are three tunings. The first two of them are intended for the 5c callichon, whereas the third tuning is for the 6string viol, as indicated above the system (Accord pro sex chordis / Aliter Viola di Gamb[a]). The first tuning is a - e - c - G - D. That is a standard callichon tuning IIRC what Pietro Prosser wrote about it. The second tuning is somewhat faulty in that the names do not match the pitches. There is a bass clef prescribed. The notes are b - f - c - F - C. Yet the names written besides the upper three notes are g, d, a. They would match in the treble clef, but not with the bass clef. Wrong notes and correct names? I don't think so. I should think that the correct alternative callichon tuning is bb - f - c - F - C. The third tuning is that of a standard bass viol (in D). That might give a clue as for the solo music for the viol (fol. 33v 47v). Fol. 5r 33r is a bass part for the accompaniment of arias to be sung. Among them, I stumbled upon the air Sommes nous pas trop heureux by Lully (9v). Fol. 48 96 contain solo music for the mandora, closing with a long set of variations on Les Folies d'Espagne. On fol. 96 is a chart with alfabeto, followed by an air for the guitar (Man weiß bey dießer zeit von keinem Freund = no friends around, these days). The rest consists of duets for the viol as treble (betrayed by some dyads) and possibly the callichon as bass instruments, including a set of arrangements of tunes from Lully's opera Belloferon. Apparently, the guitar and the mandora were considered different not only regarding their respective shapes, but also in terms of playing technique and its notation. There is no alfabeto (and, inferentially, no strumming) in the mandora parts of the ms. Mathias Hm, on fol. 6r I see a gavotte and a somewhat strange scale with wrong pitch names (suppose its a tool for transposing from sight). And on fol. 6v I see a Schmidt Courent. No charts on fol. 16, 26, 36, 46, 56, 66, 76, 86. There are alfabeto and tuning instructions on fol. 96, but they are intended for the guitar, and the tuning is not a new one but a different way of tuning, i.e. in octaves and fifths (with a mistake in measure 1, as 1a + 3f equals a major third). On p. 24v seq, the headline that I can see reads Fundamentales Concentus in Callizon, i.e. either chords in root position or basic chords on the Callichon. Considering fol. 25r, I prefer the latter. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Tablature Mandore Guitare
You have to put together the two lines as there was a cut in the link... (all what is between and ) http://www.europeana.eu/portal/record/92004/8BBCF27BFD3362850AA8C198B9 85D9AD99E3393B.html?query=Losy+guitar V. De : Martyn Hodgson [mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk] Envoye : lundi 26 mars 2012 10:34 A : Valery Sauvage Objet : Re: [LUTE] Tablature Mandore Guitare Dear Valery, I'd like to help but this link doesn't seem to work. regards Martyn --- On Mon, 26/3/12, Valery Sauvage sauvag...@orange.fr wrote: From: Valery Sauvage sauvag...@orange.fr Subject: [LUTE] Tablature Mandore Guitare To: 'Lute Net' lute@cs.dartmouth.edu, le_l...@yahoogroupes.fr Date: Monday, 26 March, 2012, 9:28 [1][1]http://www.europeana.eu/portal/record/92004/8BBCF27BFD3362850A A8C198 B985D9AD99E3393B.html?query=Losy+guitar This is an interesting Ms with tabs for Mandora (Galichon ?) and baroque guitar (from F. 48r, 6 courses, from 60v for 5 courses) Some bibliographical informations mention the name of J. A. Losy (under publication by Jaroslav Pohanka in 1958). Is this music by Losy ? Any information is welcome. Nice music anyway ! All the best, Valery Voici un lien vers une tablature interessante (`a partir du folio 48r, pieces pour un instrument `a 6 choeurs, mandore probablement, puis `a partir du folio 60v, pieces pour instrument `a 5 choeurs. Dans la bibliographie il est fait mention de J.A. Losy par Jaroslav Pohanka (une edition de 1958) mais cette musique est-elle bien de Losy ? ou il y est fait reference uniquement dans la bibliographie ? Quelqu'un aurait une information ? Sinon la musique semble agreable... Bonne decouverte, Valery (Lien communique par Jean-Franc,ois Delcamp) -- References 1. [2]http://www.europeana.eu/portal/record/92004/8BBCF27BFD3362850AA8C198 B985D9AD99E3393B.html?query=Losy+guitar To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.europeana.eu/portal/record/92004/8BBCF27BFD3362850AA8C198 2. http://www.europeana.eu/portal/record/92004/8BBCF27BFD3362850AA8C198B985D9AD99E3393B.html?query=Losy+guitar 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Tablature Mandore Guitare
[1]http://www.europeana.eu/portal/record/92004/8BBCF27BFD3362850AA8C1 98 B985D9AD99E3393B.html?query=Losy+guitar This is an interesting Ms with tabs for Mandora (Galichon ?) and baroque guitar (from F. 48r, 6 courses, from 60v for 5 courses) Some bibliographical informations mention the name of J. A. Losy (under publication by Jaroslav Pohanka in 1958). Merci beaucoup for sharing, Valérie! Would that it could be downloaded as a whole! In modern terms, the ms. is neither for the guitar nor for the mandora, but for archguitar (see http://youtu.be/CNJaYInbbhs), as you can see on p. 48v. The required instrument has 12 (twelve) courses. The headline nevertheless reads: Accordo Cytharræ et Mandoræ. Provided the required instrument existed, this clarifies that there were mandoras with up to 12 courses. Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Tablature Mandore Guitare
In modern terms, the ms. is neither for the guitar nor for the mandora, but for archguitar (see http://youtu.be/CNJaYInbbhs), as you can see on p. 48v. The required instrument has 12 (twelve) courses. The headline nevertheless reads: Accordo Cytharræ et Mandoræ. As far as I could make out the manuscript includes a variety of material - some in staff notation, some for 5-course guitar and some a theorboed guitar. Provided the required instrument existed, this clarifies that there were mandoras with up to 12 courses. 5-course instruments with additional open bass courses certainly existed. There is music for such an instrument in Granata's 1659 book which is what Rob plays on the you-tube clip. Granata's instrument was actually guitar shaped. However it is not clear whether other instruments with this configuaration had lute shaped or guitar shaped bodies. An article on this subject which I wrote is in Early Music for February 2011 and it included the picture of Granata's instrument. I wasn't aware of this source at the time. Monica To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Tablature Mandore Guitare
Thank you Valery - I have it now. And thank you for bringing it to our attention. A few quick observations: The tablature is for guitar or mandora (a 6th course is required on the earlier folios). Folio 48r shows the tuning with a 6th course (at nominal G ie a tone below the 5th course) so this certainly looks like mandora music. The intervals between the highest five courses is identical on both instruments and most of the pieces could be played on the 5 course guitar too. Incidentally there are other 5 course mandora sources. Fol 69v (their numbering 72v) also has a piece for a Mandora 1 and a Mandora 2 . In this context the heading on fol. 48v is very interesting 'Accordo Chytarra A Mandora' - whatever this meant to the scribe. This page also contains added numbers under the basses - as if it were for an archmandora or archguitar. The hand of these numbers looks to me not the same as the main scribe and I suspect may have been entered later as the manuscript owner tried to adapt the music to a theorboed instrument recently acquired. Whatever the reason, they soon tired of the idea - after a mere three lines in fact.. Interestingly one tuning on fol 6 is given as for the 'Calledono' which I presume refers to the gallichon thus once again showing an interchange in usage between the mandora and gallichon - though the tuning given is not one I recognise from other sources. In my view, the writing looks more like mandora music than for guitar and I therefore suggest a low bass 5th course with the octave on the high side (ie the low bass sounds firstand stronger). I've not had time to search for concordances - tho' some seem familiar ( a bit like Deisel's output) but the later staff notation pieces include music from Lully's (I think) Bellepheron. Martyn --- On Mon, 26/3/12, Valery Sauvage sauvag...@orange.fr wrote: From: Valery Sauvage sauvag...@orange.fr Subject: RE: [LUTE] Re: Tablature Mandore Guitare To: 'Martyn Hodgson' hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk Date: Monday, 26 March, 2012, 10:21 Try the link on the Ning page : [1]http://earlyguitar.ning.com/forum/topics/losy-or-not-losy-logy-mando ra-guitar-book (I hope this one will not be cuted..) V. De : Martyn Hodgson [mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk] Envoye : lundi 26 mars 2012 10:47 A : Valery Sauvage Objet : Re: [LUTE] Re: Tablature Mandore Guitare Thank you. I tried but got this. M. No results found for [2]http://www.europeana.eu/portal/record/92004/8BBCF27BFD3362850AA8C198B9 85D9AD99E3393B.html?query=Losy+guitar. --- On Mon, 26/3/12, Valery Sauvage sauvag...@orange.fr wrote: From: Valery Sauvage sauvag...@orange.fr Subject: [LUTE] Re: Tablature Mandore Guitare To: 'Lute Net' lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Monday, 26 March, 2012, 9:38 You have to put together the two lines as there was a cut in the link... (all what is between and ) [3]http://www.europeana.eu/portal/record/92004/8BBCF27BFD3362850AA8 C198B9 85D9AD99E3393B.html?query=Losy+guitar V. De : Martyn Hodgson [mailto:[4]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk] Envoye : lundi 26 mars 2012 10:34 A : Valery Sauvage Objet : Re: [LUTE] Tablature Mandore Guitare Dear Valery, I'd like to help but this link doesn't seem to work. regards Martyn --- On Mon, 26/3/12, Valery Sauvage [5]sauvag...@orange.fr wrote: From: Valery Sauvage [6]sauvag...@orange.fr Subject: [LUTE] Tablature Mandore Guitare To: 'Lute Net' [7]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu, [8]le_l...@yahoogroupes.fr Date: Monday, 26 March, 2012, 9:28 [1][1][9]http://www.europeana.eu/portal/record/92004/8BBCF27BFD3362850A A8C198 B985D9AD99E3393B.html?query=Losy+guitar This is an interesting Ms with tabs for Mandora (Galichon ?) and baroque guitar (from F. 48r, 6 courses, from 60v for 5 courses) Some bibliographical informations mention the name of J. A. Losy (under publication by Jaroslav Pohanka in 1958). Is this music by Losy ? Any information is welcome. Nice music anyway ! All the best, Valery Voici un lien vers une tablature interessante (`a partir du folio 48r, pieces pour un instrument `a 6 choeurs, mandore probablement, puis `a partir du folio 60v, pieces pour instrument `a 5 choeurs. Dans la bibliographie il est fait mention de J.A. Losy par Jaroslav Pohanka (une edition de 1958) mais cette musique est-elle bien de Losy ? ou il y est fait reference uniquement dans la bibliographie ? Quelqu'un aurait une information ? Sinon la musique semble agreable... Bonne decouverte, Valery (Lien communique par
[LUTE] Re: Tablature Mandore Guitare
The tablature is for guitar or mandora (a 6th course is required on the earlier folios). Folio 48r shows the tuning with a 6th course (at nominal G ie a tone below the 5th course) so this certainly looks like mandora music. The intervals between the highest five courses is identical on both instruments and most of the pieces could be played on the 5 course guitar too. Did you note the instructions on fol. 24 seqq? They are obviously intended for the 5c calichon, tuned g - d - Bb - F - C. In this context the heading on fol. 48v is very interesting 'Accordo Chytarra A Mandora' whatever this meant to the scribe. As I said, the headline reads: Accordo Chytaræ et Mandoræ, meaning tuning of the guitar and the mandora. Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Tablature Mandore Guitare
The tablature is for guitar or mandora (a 6th course is required on the earlier folios). Folio 48r shows the tuning with a 6th course (at nominal G ie a tone below the 5th course) so this certainly looks like mandora music. The intervals between the highest five courses is identical on both instruments and most of the pieces could be played on the 5 course guitar too. Did you note the instructions on fol. 24 seqq? They are obviously intended for the 5c calichon, tuned g - d - Bb - F - C. In this context the heading on fol. 48v is very interesting 'Accordo Chytarra A Mandora' whatever this meant to the scribe. As I said, the headline reads: Accordo Chytaræ et Mandoræ, meaning tuning of the guitar and the mandora. Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
