[LUTE] Re: historical lute stringings /Re: marker at 7th fret
Top of the afternoon to you too, Ed- Not against markers, just don't like the appearance. On my 72 cm. 8 course, (that's a LONG highway for these old fingers) Barber put a very discreet little white dot at the seventh, on the neck near the neck/fingerboard junction, worked very well anytime I was stupid enough to look down at unspeakable activities happening on the fingerboard. I thought metal frets were avoided because they would eat up gut strings? -Dan >Howdy, Dan! > >I do use markers, as I play many different sized instruments. I >recall working with a lutenist about 8 years, ago, practicing duets. >This particular lutenist plays many different kinds of lutes, and in >one piece, he was not hitting the right note up on the 8th or 9th >fret. I suggested a marker on the 7th, & he initially resisted, but >then decided to consent in trying it. After using a drop of "white >out" on the 7th fret, he played the correct note every time. He was >a convert at that time. > >Paul O'Dette also uses markers, and for good reason - it makes him a >more accurate player. If one had only 1 instrument, then it would >be less of a need to mark the 7th fret. However, with many >different styles and length lutes, it really is helpful to use a >marker, in my opinion. > >I am curious to see, hear, or play the newly loaded strings; >however, I am satisfied with copper or solver gimped, as they are >true & accurate. > >Dan Larson stopped loading strings years ago, for the same reasons >that Mimmo did. It was too time consuming & expensive. Many >strings would break, many were false. It was also too time >consuming for him to be replacing false loaded strings. So, he >stopped production, and went with a gut bass that sounds great & the >quality control is vastly improved - the gimped string. > >ed -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: historical lute stringings /Re: marker at 7th fret
Howdy, Dan! I do use markers, as I play many different sized instruments. I recall working with a lutenist about 8 years, ago, practicing duets. This particular lutenist plays many different kinds of lutes, and in one piece, he was not hitting the right note up on the 8th or 9th fret. I suggested a marker on the 7th, & he initially resisted, but then decided to consent in trying it. After using a drop of "white out" on the 7th fret, he played the correct note every time. He was a convert at that time. Paul O'Dette also uses markers, and for good reason - it makes him a more accurate player. If one had only 1 instrument, then it would be less of a need to mark the 7th fret. However, with many different styles and length lutes, it really is helpful to use a marker, in my opinion. I am curious to see, hear, or play the newly loaded strings; however, I am satisfied with copper or solver gimped, as they are true & accurate. Dan Larson stopped loading strings years ago, for the same reasons that Mimmo did. It was too time consuming & expensive. Many strings would break, many were false. It was also too time consuming for him to be replacing false loaded strings. So, he stopped production, and went with a gut bass that sounds great & the quality control is vastly improved - the gimped string. ed At 12:25 PM 11/4/2007 -0800, Daniel Winheld wrote: >Uh-oh boys 'n girls- we're mixing our threads here. I've never felt >strongly about the marker marks except that they've always bothered >me aesthetically- but on rare occasions helped me out when playing >strictly from memory; which (classical) guitarists have always done >far more than any of us lute critters. (How do you get the guitarist >to shut up? -Give him sheet music) > >I still want answers about the new, improved loaded basses that are >UNDOUBTEDLY coming our way any minute now... > >.. And isn't it interesting that by the mid 17th century, seventy >some years after the Great String Improvement the French lutenists >had dropped the 1st course down to "f", singled out the 2nd, and >re-established 8ves at the 6th. Of course Dowland could have been >voicing a musically elite and minority opinion in regard to the >unison 6th. > >Not sure what the norm was for 8ves in Italy- but still set up for >mostly doubled firsts on liuti attorbiati, no? > >Dan > > >For what it's worth... > > > >Perhaps the difference is that we lutenists daren't take our eyes > >off the tablature, and so we have to find our way about the neck of > >our instrument by touch, not sight. Having said that, I think I > >might just stick something close tothe 7th fret... > > > >Alan > >- Original Message - From: "Daniel Winheld" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: > >Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 6:15 PM > >Subject: [LUTE] Re: historical lute stringings > > > >> > "I think Mimmo Peruffo may not reply because he may not want > >>>to appear to be advertising his wares on this list. It is a > >>>difficult situation for string makers and lute makers whenever they > >>>communicate, it could be considered that indirectly they are trying > >>>to sell their wares." > >> > >>Couple of thoughts- I'm sure that Mimmo, our most advanced, dedicated > >>commercial stringmaker, wouldn't merely be sharing his latest > >>conclusions and historical/scientific research results just for the > >>hell of it- something's got to be up; and he knows how badly some of > >>us want the next inevitable step to fall (waiting patiently for the > >>other shoe to drop?) in regard to the loaded gut bass strings. They > >>were so close! -But as pointed out, too many problems and headaches > >>involved. > >> > >>I still have a pair of perfectly matched, in tune, loaded guts for > >>the only satisfactory unison pairing of this string type I've > >>encountered for the 6th course of my 7 course Andreas Holst lute. At > >>the 2005 LSA event in Cleveland Cathy Liddell was still wearing a > >>very carefully maintained set of loaded gut bass fundamentals 6 - 11 > >>on her Baroque lute. > >> > >>Come on, Mimmo! You've got our attention, big time- unload the loaded > >>guts on us- please! Dan > >> > >>P.S.- How many of us have had success- long term, that is, playing > >>cleanly and maintaining in tune the doubled first course, any string > >>material or on any instrument? > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>-- > >> > >> > >> > >>To get on or off this list see list information at > >>http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > >> > >> > >>-- > >>No virus found in this incoming message. > >>Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >>Version: 7.5.486 / Virus Database: 269.15.17/1103 - Release Date: > >>01/11/2007 06:01 > >> > > > > > >-- > >I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. > >It has removed 1056 spam emails to date. > >Paying users do not have this message in their emails. > >Get the free SPAMfighte
[LUTE] Re: historical lute stringings /Re: marker at 7th fret
I hope you may be right for the loaded strings. Perhaps they are on their way, and you read the signs better than I do. Undoubtedly, Mimmo will be demonstrating something this month at the Greenwich early music festival. I suppose you may see his lute strung with loaded strings, perhaps he has gone further and is ready to sell you a complete set. I rather hope so/ As to the marks on the 5th and 7th fret, I noticed that a French lute player who has over 30 lutes, has a little marketry circle set into the lute neck near the 5th and 7th frets. The various lutemakers who made these lutes, obviously accepted making this alteration to their lutes. I imagine that the more varied the lutes you play the more reason you might have to introdcuing this sort of aid. Anthony Le 4 nov. 07 à 21:25, Daniel Winheld a écrit : Uh-oh boys 'n girls- we're mixing our threads here. I've never felt strongly about the marker marks except that they've always bothered me aesthetically- but on rare occasions helped me out when playing strictly from memory; which (classical) guitarists have always done far more than any of us lute critters. (How do you get the guitarist to shut up? -Give him sheet music) I still want answers about the new, improved loaded basses that are UNDOUBTEDLY coming our way any minute now... .. And isn't it interesting that by the mid 17th century, seventy some years after the Great String Improvement the French lutenists had dropped the 1st course down to "f", singled out the 2nd, and re-established 8ves at the 6th. Of course Dowland could have been voicing a musically elite and minority opinion in regard to the unison 6th. Not sure what the norm was for 8ves in Italy- but still set up for mostly doubled firsts on liuti attorbiati, no? Dan For what it's worth... Perhaps the difference is that we lutenists daren't take our eyes off the tablature, and so we have to find our way about the neck of our instrument by touch, not sight. Having said that, I think I might just stick something close tothe 7th fret... Alan - Original Message - From: "Daniel Winheld" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 6:15 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: historical lute stringings "I think Mimmo Peruffo may not reply because he may not want to appear to be advertising his wares on this list. It is a difficult situation for string makers and lute makers whenever they communicate, it could be considered that indirectly they are trying to sell their wares." Couple of thoughts- I'm sure that Mimmo, our most advanced, dedicated commercial stringmaker, wouldn't merely be sharing his latest conclusions and historical/scientific research results just for the hell of it- something's got to be up; and he knows how badly some of us want the next inevitable step to fall (waiting patiently for the other shoe to drop?) in regard to the loaded gut bass strings. They were so close! -But as pointed out, too many problems and headaches involved. I still have a pair of perfectly matched, in tune, loaded guts for the only satisfactory unison pairing of this string type I've encountered for the 6th course of my 7 course Andreas Holst lute. At the 2005 LSA event in Cleveland Cathy Liddell was still wearing a very carefully maintained set of loaded gut bass fundamentals 6 - 11 on her Baroque lute. Come on, Mimmo! You've got our attention, big time- unload the loaded guts on us- please! Dan P.S.- How many of us have had success- long term, that is, playing cleanly and maintaining in tune the doubled first course, any string material or on any instrument? -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.486 / Virus Database: 269.15.17/1103 - Release Date: 01/11/2007 06:01 -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 1056 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len -- Rachel Winheld 820 Colusa Avenue Berkeley, CA 94707 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel 510.526.0242 Cell 510.915.4276
[LUTE] Re: historical lute stringings /Re: marker at 7th fret
Uh-oh boys 'n girls- we're mixing our threads here. I've never felt strongly about the marker marks except that they've always bothered me aesthetically- but on rare occasions helped me out when playing strictly from memory; which (classical) guitarists have always done far more than any of us lute critters. (How do you get the guitarist to shut up? -Give him sheet music) I still want answers about the new, improved loaded basses that are UNDOUBTEDLY coming our way any minute now... .. And isn't it interesting that by the mid 17th century, seventy some years after the Great String Improvement the French lutenists had dropped the 1st course down to "f", singled out the 2nd, and re-established 8ves at the 6th. Of course Dowland could have been voicing a musically elite and minority opinion in regard to the unison 6th. Not sure what the norm was for 8ves in Italy- but still set up for mostly doubled firsts on liuti attorbiati, no? Dan >For what it's worth... > >Perhaps the difference is that we lutenists daren't take our eyes >off the tablature, and so we have to find our way about the neck of >our instrument by touch, not sight. Having said that, I think I >might just stick something close tothe 7th fret... > >Alan >- Original Message - From: "Daniel Winheld" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: >Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 6:15 PM >Subject: [LUTE] Re: historical lute stringings > >> > "I think Mimmo Peruffo may not reply because he may not want >>>to appear to be advertising his wares on this list. It is a >>>difficult situation for string makers and lute makers whenever they >>>communicate, it could be considered that indirectly they are trying >>>to sell their wares." >> >>Couple of thoughts- I'm sure that Mimmo, our most advanced, dedicated >>commercial stringmaker, wouldn't merely be sharing his latest >>conclusions and historical/scientific research results just for the >>hell of it- something's got to be up; and he knows how badly some of >>us want the next inevitable step to fall (waiting patiently for the >>other shoe to drop?) in regard to the loaded gut bass strings. They >>were so close! -But as pointed out, too many problems and headaches >>involved. >> >>I still have a pair of perfectly matched, in tune, loaded guts for >>the only satisfactory unison pairing of this string type I've >>encountered for the 6th course of my 7 course Andreas Holst lute. At >>the 2005 LSA event in Cleveland Cathy Liddell was still wearing a >>very carefully maintained set of loaded gut bass fundamentals 6 - 11 >>on her Baroque lute. >> >>Come on, Mimmo! You've got our attention, big time- unload the loaded >>guts on us- please! Dan >> >>P.S.- How many of us have had success- long term, that is, playing >>cleanly and maintaining in tune the doubled first course, any string >>material or on any instrument? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>-- >> >> >> >>To get on or off this list see list information at >>http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> >> >>-- >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>Version: 7.5.486 / Virus Database: 269.15.17/1103 - Release Date: >>01/11/2007 06:01 >> > > >-- >I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. >It has removed 1056 spam emails to date. >Paying users do not have this message in their emails. >Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len -- Rachel Winheld 820 Colusa Avenue Berkeley, CA 94707 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel 510.526.0242 Cell 510.915.4276
