[LUTE] Re: loaded guts
Thanks to all for replying so elaborately, and thanks to Mimmo's kind reply off-list. It has been a helpful discussion. On 6 December 2010 19:06, Anthony Hind wrote: > What tension are you actually using? It was in the first message, but chopped of by now, I suspect. I quote myself: >> courses five, six and seven of a 61cm lute at 30 to 33N << Not particularly low tensions, but too low for the loaded guts. In the meantime (another concert on this instrument coming up) I've changed them back to pistoys, my preferred choice of bass strings on courses 5 to 7 on any lute in the first place. I'll save the loaded guts for more appropriate use on anther instrument. These are great soiunding strings, after all. -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: loaded guts
Hi Dan, As far as the 6c lute is concerned, I don't think anyone is suggesting that it needs loaded strings and in my experience, high-twist, Mimmo's "Venice", Larson pistoy are all fine - just pure gut all the way, one of the delights of the 6c lute! Martin On 06/12/2010 19:29, Daniel Winheld wrote: Thank you Anthony for a most complete explanation of all the important facts and factors concerning these most highly evolved loaded gut strings. Now I feel confident that I could actually order them and know what to go for, and expect. And not only which lute to use them on but just as important- where NOT to use them! I'm sure that they are the strings to use on my Baroque lute, but less sure of their suitability on my 8 course. Playing style/touch comes into play here; my B-lute RH is already modeled after what we can see in the famous picture of Charles Mouton, (only not quite as far back to the bridge) and even with the strange combination of strings on it now the sound& style fit the instrument and the music quite well. The tension overall is about .2 or .3 Kg per string more than Toyohiko Satoh's recommended tensions from the chantarelle down to about the 6 or 7th course, then matches his- right where the higer tension of the new loadeds would be applicable. But just now from your last message- "...although I have been getting away with 2K7"- so I think it's going to work. Such tension, and more, have been harmless to this instrument in the past. (An old Robert Lundberg "Hoffman" interpretation. Not an instrument to write home about, but does the job for my needs.) My approach to the Renaissance lute is completely different; I am laying into the unison gut (Larson Pistoys) very vigorously at times w/ thumb under and half-way into the rose. Even strong thumb rest strokes on the 5th& 6th courses produce no buzzing. Of course I must use enough discretion and good LH touch to maintain the correct string spacing or I get proximity string slap- a different matter from the buzzing that concerns us. Not sure if the new loaded gut would blend well with the other courses on the low 8th D, as it would be the only string of this radically different type on this lute- but I would like a touch more clarity from that string than I get even with the Larson GImp paired with a strongish octave string, although the tone color, volume, and intonation all work very well with the rest of the strings as a whole. String tensions on this lute are exactly as Larson had set it up- (his tension charts are on his Gamut string website) he really nailed it for me with this instrument. Putting these new strings on my 6 course lute would be like putting low profile racing tires on 1936 Plymouth. UnHIP and unwise, maybe even dangerous. Wish I could have been at your house the day you had for lutes all loaded with loaded guts. Dan Dear Daniel and All There is a fundamental difference between the first and the second generation loaded guts. The first were loaded on a single high twist core, and the second were loaded on Venice twine. The flexibility of the Venice twine gives better harmonicity, but by its very flexibility needs to be treated with care, in setting up, and in RH technique. $ Furthermore, Mimmo made a third "improvement"; while in the first loaded Venice-type, the cores became progressively much thicker, say from 6th through to the 11th, in the more recent ones, the core remains almost the same, but the loading increases. So imagine a fairly thin Venice core loaded with copper, it is going to act more like a pendulum than a spring, there is very little core to pull the string back once you have given it its impulse (ultra low impedance). This gives a better sound, but calls for more care when setting a lute up, and when striking the string. When ordering Venice twine (which is very stretchy), Mimmo advizes to multiply the value you require by 1.07. The same must be done for a loaded string, as it has the same stretchy quality. That is what gives its harmonicity, or its fantastic singing quality. In fact, the loaded string, perhaps because of its thin core, is even more stretchy, and so possibly, multiply by 1.07, and then take the next value up. $ The result of the stretchiness is an ultra low impedance string, similar in some ways to an ultra low tension HT string. It may be necessary to strike it slightly closer to the bridge, to find the point of best impedance. Do not consider loaded strings if you are hoping to go for low tension stringing. The only reason to do that is if the strings are high impedance HT strings. Loaded strings are already ultra low impedance! $ Expect to wait at least a month for the string to come up to its final tension, and to to gain slightly in the high harmonic area. It will progress for at least 6 months. $ Consid
[LUTE] Re: loaded guts
Thank you Anthony for a most complete explanation of all the important facts and factors concerning these most highly evolved loaded gut strings. Now I feel confident that I could actually order them and know what to go for, and expect. And not only which lute to use them on but just as important- where NOT to use them! I'm sure that they are the strings to use on my Baroque lute, but less sure of their suitability on my 8 course. Playing style/touch comes into play here; my B-lute RH is already modeled after what we can see in the famous picture of Charles Mouton, (only not quite as far back to the bridge) and even with the strange combination of strings on it now the sound & style fit the instrument and the music quite well. The tension overall is about .2 or .3 Kg per string more than Toyohiko Satoh's recommended tensions from the chantarelle down to about the 6 or 7th course, then matches his- right where the higer tension of the new loadeds would be applicable. But just now from your last message- "...although I have been getting away with 2K7"- so I think it's going to work. Such tension, and more, have been harmless to this instrument in the past. (An old Robert Lundberg "Hoffman" interpretation. Not an instrument to write home about, but does the job for my needs.) My approach to the Renaissance lute is completely different; I am laying into the unison gut (Larson Pistoys) very vigorously at times w/ thumb under and half-way into the rose. Even strong thumb rest strokes on the 5th & 6th courses produce no buzzing. Of course I must use enough discretion and good LH touch to maintain the correct string spacing or I get proximity string slap- a different matter from the buzzing that concerns us. Not sure if the new loaded gut would blend well with the other courses on the low 8th D, as it would be the only string of this radically different type on this lute- but I would like a touch more clarity from that string than I get even with the Larson GImp paired with a strongish octave string, although the tone color, volume, and intonation all work very well with the rest of the strings as a whole. String tensions on this lute are exactly as Larson had set it up- (his tension charts are on his Gamut string website) he really nailed it for me with this instrument. Putting these new strings on my 6 course lute would be like putting low profile racing tires on 1936 Plymouth. UnHIP and unwise, maybe even dangerous. Wish I could have been at your house the day you had for lutes all loaded with loaded guts. Dan >Dear Daniel and All > There is a fundamental difference between the first and the >second generation loaded guts. The first were loaded on a single high >twist core, and the second were loaded on Venice twine. >The flexibility of the Venice twine gives better harmonicity, but by >its very flexibility needs to be treated with care, in setting up, and >in RH technique. >$ >Furthermore, Mimmo made a third "improvement"; while in the first >loaded Venice-type, the cores became progressively much thicker, say >from 6th through to the 11th, in the more recent ones, the core remains >almost the same, but the loading increases. >So imagine a fairly thin Venice core loaded with copper, it is going to >act more like a pendulum than a spring, there is very little core to >pull the string back once you have given it its impulse (ultra low >impedance). This gives a better sound, but calls for more care when >setting a lute up, and when striking the string. >When ordering Venice twine (which is very stretchy), Mimmo advizes to >multiply the value you require by 1.07. The same must be done for a >loaded string, as it has the same stretchy quality. >That is what gives its harmonicity, or its fantastic singing quality. >In fact, the loaded string, perhaps because of its thin core, is even >more stretchy, and so possibly, multiply by 1.07, and then take the >next value up. >$ >The result of the stretchiness is an ultra low impedance string, >similar in some ways to an ultra low tension HT string. It may be >necessary to strike it slightly closer to the bridge, to find the point >of best impedance. >Do not consider loaded strings if you are hoping to go for low tension >stringing. The only reason to do that is if the strings are high >impedance HT strings. Loaded strings are already ultra low impedance! >$ >Expect to wait at least a month for the string to come up to its final >tension, and to to gain slightly in the high harmonic area. It will >progress for at least 6 months. >$ >Consider using a higher tension Meane octave for basses 7c down. This >gives even better harmonic behaviour, and helps reduce the risk of >buzzing. >$ >When I used a loaded string on my 7c Renaissance lute, instead of a >thick
[LUTE] Re: loaded guts
Dear David What tension are you actually using? It is true that the new loaded strings are better at a fairly high tension, although I have been getting away with 2K7, with 3K3 Venice octaves. Nevertheless, a higher tension would probably be better. I know someone using around 4Kg, and very happy with this. I don't think I would dare do that myself. $ It might be a good idea to have a page on Ning lute, where people can list the tensions they are using, and a few comments. I am thinking here of loaded basses, but it could be interesting for all gut types. Of course each player has their own technique, but examples of actual stringing tensions, used by different lutenists could become a useful reference. $ Personally, if I didn't have the benefit of loaded strings on my 11c lute (I mean if they did not exist, or were no longer made), I think I would go for a 12c lute that would allow me to use thinner pure gut (more or less the same from 7c down to 11c). This is actually, more or less what we are getting with Mimmo's newest loaded strings, as the core stays fairly stable. I believe, two new "antique" ingredients, that Mimmo found in some old recipes, allowed him to make a much thicker but smoother loading, as we could all see at his talk at the London string conference. Thus it is mainly the loading which increases as you go from 6c down to 11c, not the core. At least that is what I understood, but perhaps Mimmo may contradict me if he sees this. Regards Anthony --- Message d'origine >De : "David van Ooijen" >A : "lutelist Net" >Objet : [LUTE] loaded guts >Date : 05/12/2010 21:16:15 CET > >A question for experiences of other users of loaded guts from Aquila. > I've used them on courses five, six and seven of a 61cm lute at 30 to > 33N (around 3kg, if you prefer). > I love the sound: gutsy yet with a bite without being metallic. But > they buzz. I tend to have a heavy thumb, so I first blamed myself. > Soon I discovered it was not my thumb but string buzz against frets > because these strings are so flexible. Before the latest concert on > this instrument I decided to change all the frets to get rid of the > buzzing (steeper incline from highest to lowest fret, whatever to get > rid of the buzzing). But with only the first fret (thick one!) in > place I discovered the strings buzz high up on the fingerboard even > without other frets, so no scheme of fretting would have helped. > I have a similar problem with a loaded gut string on my theorbo > (single string six). But here an extreme fretting scheme seems to keep > the buzzing mostly under control. > > I get the impression Mimmo prefers to see his strings used under a > higher tension and I get the impression these strings are better > suited as non-fretted strings (B-lute 7 and down or the short > extension of attiorbatos), which would both reduce the risks of > buzzing. > But still, these are nice strings to use on the fingerboard. Any > people with (dis)similar experiences? Any comments welcome. > > David - like dt's expression TFZ but regrets to say Mille Regrets is > supposedly not written by Josquin, likes Karamazov's Bosnian fado but > gets an occasional admonition to get rid of his own tics and facial > expressions yet also has fans who enjoy these facial expressions face > during concerts and other people who approach him after concerts only > to tell how fascinating his eyebrows were and who never mention the > music he played - still, it makes a living > > -- > *** > David van Ooijen > davidvanooi...@gmail.com > [1]www.davidvanooijen.nl > *** > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > -- References 1. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/ 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: loaded guts
cessary.
S:
At present, as said elsewhere, I am finally going to lower the diapason
of my 11c lute to 392, by shifting the basses up one. Thus I will
actually have the 2K9 I want, and my octaves will be at 3K5. I feel
fairly sure that will be an excellent compromise, but I will report on
this.
Regards
Anthony
PS The fact that the present loaded Venices more or less keep the same
core, while stepping up the loading as you move from 6C to 11c, makes
them similar to the basses of a 12C lute, except that in the 12c lute,
while the diameter remains stable, the length increases by steps.
Message d'origine
>De : "Daniel Winheld"
>A : Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>Objet : [LUTE] Re: loaded guts
>Date : 06/12/2010 00:06:38 CET
>
>My only experience is with his first generation loadeds from some
> years ago. I still have one in use as the 7th course fundamental on
> my Chambure copy (yes, a 7 course vihuela) and it's absolutely fine.
> I got one (!) pair of matching loadeds for the unison 6th that were
> enough in tune with each other up the 5th fret and almost tolerable
> to the 7th, but in the end slight falseness- in relation to each
> other- and the buzzing caused me to drop them. In my case, unisons
> could be expected to buzz pretty easily. The 7th course w/octave
> string is no problem. For the 6 and 5, I am finding Dan Larson's
> pistoys to be entirely satisfactory. Also for the 7th course
> fundamental at F on my new Larson 8 course- but I miss the clarity of
> the loaded gut which his Pistoys do not quite equal yet for a low D-
> I may rob the vihuela of that remaining loaded gut for the 8th on the
> lute, as I am playing it a lot more than my other instruments.
>
> I am surprised that you can make loaded gut work as high as the 5th
> course; I found them to be too bright, and impossible to get unisons
> that were in tune with each other. But so far nothing beats them for
> diapasons on single pegbox lutes of 9 to 13 courses.
>
> Didn't notice any tension requirements different from my other
> strings; and I string light- almost as light as Toyohiko, but not
> quite. Are you using his new generation loadeds, or still using old
> survivors?
>
> Dan
>
>
> >A question for experiences of other users of loaded guts from
Aquila.
> >I've used them on courses five, six and seven of a 61cm lute at 30
to
> >33N (around 3kg, if you prefer).
> >I love the sound: gutsy yet with a bite without being metallic. But
> >they buzz. I tend to have a heavy thumb, so I first blamed myself.
> >Soon I discovered it was not my thumb but string buzz against frets
> >because these strings are so flexible. Before the latest concert on
> >this instrument I decided to change all the frets to get rid of the
> >buzzing (steeper incline from highest to lowest fret, whatever to
get
> >rid of the buzzing). But with only the first fret (thick one!) in
> >place I discovered the strings buzz high up on the fingerboard even
> >without other frets, so no scheme of fretting would have helped.
> >I have a similar problem with a loaded gut string on my theorbo
> >(single string six). But here an extreme fretting scheme seems to
keep
> >the buzzing mostly under control.
> >
> >I get the impression Mimmo prefers to see his strings used under a
> >higher tension and I get the impression these strings are better
> >suited as non-fretted strings (B-lute 7 and down or the short
> >extension of attiorbatos), which would both reduce the risks of
> >buzzing.
> >But still, these are nice strings to use on the fingerboard. Any
> >people with (dis)similar experiences? Any comments welcome.
> >
> >David - like dt's expression TFZ but regrets to say Mille Regrets is
> >supposedly not written by Josquin, likes Karamazov's Bosnian fado
but
> >gets an occasional admonition to get rid of his own tics and facial
> >expressions yet also has fans who enjoy these facial expressions
face
> >during concerts and other people who approach him after concerts
only
> >to tell how fascinating his eyebrows were and who never mention the
> >music he played - still, it makes a living
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
--
References
1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: loaded guts
Alright, let's find out which speaker wire makes the best bass strings. Monster Cable for low D and beyond, eh? Should match perfectly with the right fishing line in the treble. What to use for the lower middle register? (I still like Savarez KFG- "Kentucky Fried Gut" on some inner courses of my Baroque lute.) >Basically, we are talking about something that looks like speaker >wire or audio cable. >The copper or brass is on the inside. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: loaded guts
Basically, we are talking about something that looks like speaker wire or audio cable. The copper or brass is on the inside. At 04:58 PM 12/5/2010, you wrote: >How different is that from Larson's "Gimp" strings- a wire embedded & >twisted into his Pistoy high twist bass gut strings? He offers copper >and silver, among others. For a while he used gold wire. Out of sight >now, of course. They were fabulous; I had two at one time- they did >service as 5 & 6 on my bass viol and then worked out even better as >7th & 8th courses on a 72 cm. bass lute I once had. > >A report on the Asian strings would be interesting. > >Dan > > >The perfect solution for gut bass strings is the one seen in for > >example in some Asian instruments, where a wire core is wrapped with > >gut, silk or some other material. > >I have tried some Pipa strings made like this that were very nice, > >but not available in all sizes. > >You get the greater strength and weight of the string without the > >metallic surface. > >Since there is a huge boom in baroque and renaissance instrument > >making in China right now, I'm sure different types of strings could > >be commissioned. > > > >dt > >-- >Rachel Winheld >820 Colusa Avenue >Berkeley, CA 94707 > >rwinh...@comcast.net >Tel 510.526.0242 >Cell 510.915.4276 > > > >To get on or off this list see list information at >http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: loaded guts
They are similar, but have slightly heavier wire, and there are no exposed metal bands. dt At 04:58 PM 12/5/2010, you wrote: >How different is that from Larson's "Gimp" strings- a wire embedded & >twisted into his Pistoy high twist bass gut strings? He offers copper >and silver, among others. For a while he used gold wire. Out of sight >now, of course. They were fabulous; I had two at one time- they did >service as 5 & 6 on my bass viol and then worked out even better as >7th & 8th courses on a 72 cm. bass lute I once had. > >A report on the Asian strings would be interesting. > >Dan > > >The perfect solution for gut bass strings is the one seen in for > >example in some Asian instruments, where a wire core is wrapped with > >gut, silk or some other material. > >I have tried some Pipa strings made like this that were very nice, > >but not available in all sizes. > >You get the greater strength and weight of the string without the > >metallic surface. > >Since there is a huge boom in baroque and renaissance instrument > >making in China right now, I'm sure different types of strings could > >be commissioned. > > > >dt > >-- >Rachel Winheld >820 Colusa Avenue >Berkeley, CA 94707 > >rwinh...@comcast.net >Tel 510.526.0242 >Cell 510.915.4276 > > > >To get on or off this list see list information at >http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: loaded guts
Echo again - yes, Dan Larson's gimped are similar to what you describe. But once again, I would not use them on mid-range, 5th & 6th courses, as gimped are stiff strings, and the intonation while fretting is not as good as plain gut, or certainly, Pistoys for those course. ed At 06:58 PM 12/5/2010, Daniel Winheld wrote: >How different is that from Larson's "Gimp" strings- a wire embedded & >twisted into his Pistoy high twist bass gut strings? He offers copper >and silver, among others. For a while he used gold wire. Out of sight >now, of course. They were fabulous; I had two at one time- they did >service as 5 & 6 on my bass viol and then worked out even better as >7th & 8th courses on a 72 cm. bass lute I once had. > >A report on the Asian strings would be interesting. > >Dan > > >The perfect solution for gut bass strings is the one seen in for > >example in some Asian instruments, where a wire core is wrapped with > >gut, silk or some other material. > >I have tried some Pipa strings made like this that were very nice, > >but not available in all sizes. > >You get the greater strength and weight of the string without the > >metallic surface. > >Since there is a huge boom in baroque and renaissance instrument > >making in China right now, I'm sure different types of strings could > >be commissioned. > > > >dt > >-- >Rachel Winheld >820 Colusa Avenue >Berkeley, CA 94707 > >rwinh...@comcast.net >Tel 510.526.0242 >Cell 510.915.4276 > > > >To get on or off this list see list information at >http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute
[LUTE] Re: loaded guts
I was about to add my 2 cents worth, but Dan Winheld echo's my experience. I do have one of the new generation loaded string of Mimmo's, and I use it on the 11th course on the 11-course lute. It works well, for the deep bass. Years ago, I used Dan Larson's loaded guts for the 5th & 6th, but he no longer makes them. I use Pistoys, and love them. His had the same trouble for 5 & 6. Avoid loaded strings in the midrange - that is my advice. down there. Here is the problem, David: Loading gut adds weight, with the metal. Having the added weight makes the strings move more, and especially on fretted courses, one gets the added vibration, or "chatter" with frets. You are not the only one. it is not a criticism in any way of Mimmo's fine work, but it is a problem with loading. Use Pistoys for those strings, or Mimmo's mid range strings, and you will be a far happier camper. ed At 05:06 PM 12/5/2010, Daniel Winheld wrote: >My only experience is with his first generation loadeds from some >years ago. I still have one in use as the 7th course fundamental on >my Chambure copy (yes, a 7 course vihuela) and it's absolutely fine. >I got one (!) pair of matching loadeds for the unison 6th that were >enough in tune with each other up the 5th fret and almost tolerable >to the 7th, but in the end slight falseness- in relation to each >other- and the buzzing caused me to drop them. In my case, unisons >could be expected to buzz pretty easily. The 7th course w/octave >string is no problem. For the 6 and 5, I am finding Dan Larson's >pistoys to be entirely satisfactory. Also for the 7th course >fundamental at F on my new Larson 8 course- but I miss the clarity of >the loaded gut which his Pistoys do not quite equal yet for a low D- >I may rob the vihuela of that remaining loaded gut for the 8th on the >lute, as I am playing it a lot more than my other instruments. > > I am surprised that you can make loaded gut work as high as the 5th >course; I found them to be too bright, and impossible to get unisons >that were in tune with each other. But so far nothing beats them for >diapasons on single pegbox lutes of 9 to 13 courses. > >Didn't notice any tension requirements different from my other >strings; and I string light- almost as light as Toyohiko, but not >quite. Are you using his new generation loadeds, or still using old >survivors? > >Dan > > > >A question for experiences of other users of loaded guts from Aquila. > >I've used them on courses five, six and seven of a 61cm lute at 30 to > >33N (around 3kg, if you prefer). > >I love the sound: gutsy yet with a bite without being metallic. But > >they buzz. I tend to have a heavy thumb, so I first blamed myself. > >Soon I discovered it was not my thumb but string buzz against frets > >because these strings are so flexible. Before the latest concert on > >this instrument I decided to change all the frets to get rid of the > >buzzing (steeper incline from highest to lowest fret, whatever to get > >rid of the buzzing). But with only the first fret (thick one!) in > >place I discovered the strings buzz high up on the fingerboard even > >without other frets, so no scheme of fretting would have helped. > >I have a similar problem with a loaded gut string on my theorbo > >(single string six). But here an extreme fretting scheme seems to keep > >the buzzing mostly under control. > > > >I get the impression Mimmo prefers to see his strings used under a > >higher tension and I get the impression these strings are better > >suited as non-fretted strings (B-lute 7 and down or the short > >extension of attiorbatos), which would both reduce the risks of > >buzzing. > >But still, these are nice strings to use on the fingerboard. Any > >people with (dis)similar experiences? Any comments welcome. > > > >David - like dt's expression TFZ but regrets to say Mille Regrets is > >supposedly not written by Josquin, likes Karamazov's Bosnian fado but > >gets an occasional admonition to get rid of his own tics and facial > >expressions yet also has fans who enjoy these facial expressions face > >during concerts and other people who approach him after concerts only > >to tell how fascinating his eyebrows were and who never mention the > >music he played - still, it makes a living > >-- > > > > > >To get on or off this list see list information at >http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute
[LUTE] Re: loaded guts
How different is that from Larson's "Gimp" strings- a wire embedded & twisted into his Pistoy high twist bass gut strings? He offers copper and silver, among others. For a while he used gold wire. Out of sight now, of course. They were fabulous; I had two at one time- they did service as 5 & 6 on my bass viol and then worked out even better as 7th & 8th courses on a 72 cm. bass lute I once had. A report on the Asian strings would be interesting. Dan >The perfect solution for gut bass strings is the one seen in for >example in some Asian instruments, where a wire core is wrapped with >gut, silk or some other material. >I have tried some Pipa strings made like this that were very nice, >but not available in all sizes. >You get the greater strength and weight of the string without the >metallic surface. >Since there is a huge boom in baroque and renaissance instrument >making in China right now, I'm sure different types of strings could >be commissioned. > >dt -- Rachel Winheld 820 Colusa Avenue Berkeley, CA 94707 rwinh...@comcast.net Tel 510.526.0242 Cell 510.915.4276 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: loaded guts
The perfect solution for gut bass strings is the one seen in for example in some Asian instruments, where a wire core is wrapped with gut, silk or some other material. I have tried some Pipa strings made like this that were very nice, but not available in all sizes. You get the greater strength and weight of the string without the metallic surface. Since there is a huge boom in baroque and renaissance instrument making in China right now, I'm sure different types of strings could be commissioned. dt To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: loaded guts
My only experience is with his first generation loadeds from some years ago. I still have one in use as the 7th course fundamental on my Chambure copy (yes, a 7 course vihuela) and it's absolutely fine. I got one (!) pair of matching loadeds for the unison 6th that were enough in tune with each other up the 5th fret and almost tolerable to the 7th, but in the end slight falseness- in relation to each other- and the buzzing caused me to drop them. In my case, unisons could be expected to buzz pretty easily. The 7th course w/octave string is no problem. For the 6 and 5, I am finding Dan Larson's pistoys to be entirely satisfactory. Also for the 7th course fundamental at F on my new Larson 8 course- but I miss the clarity of the loaded gut which his Pistoys do not quite equal yet for a low D- I may rob the vihuela of that remaining loaded gut for the 8th on the lute, as I am playing it a lot more than my other instruments. I am surprised that you can make loaded gut work as high as the 5th course; I found them to be too bright, and impossible to get unisons that were in tune with each other. But so far nothing beats them for diapasons on single pegbox lutes of 9 to 13 courses. Didn't notice any tension requirements different from my other strings; and I string light- almost as light as Toyohiko, but not quite. Are you using his new generation loadeds, or still using old survivors? Dan >A question for experiences of other users of loaded guts from Aquila. >I've used them on courses five, six and seven of a 61cm lute at 30 to >33N (around 3kg, if you prefer). >I love the sound: gutsy yet with a bite without being metallic. But >they buzz. I tend to have a heavy thumb, so I first blamed myself. >Soon I discovered it was not my thumb but string buzz against frets >because these strings are so flexible. Before the latest concert on >this instrument I decided to change all the frets to get rid of the >buzzing (steeper incline from highest to lowest fret, whatever to get >rid of the buzzing). But with only the first fret (thick one!) in >place I discovered the strings buzz high up on the fingerboard even >without other frets, so no scheme of fretting would have helped. >I have a similar problem with a loaded gut string on my theorbo >(single string six). But here an extreme fretting scheme seems to keep >the buzzing mostly under control. > >I get the impression Mimmo prefers to see his strings used under a >higher tension and I get the impression these strings are better >suited as non-fretted strings (B-lute 7 and down or the short >extension of attiorbatos), which would both reduce the risks of >buzzing. >But still, these are nice strings to use on the fingerboard. Any >people with (dis)similar experiences? Any comments welcome. > >David - like dt's expression TFZ but regrets to say Mille Regrets is >supposedly not written by Josquin, likes Karamazov's Bosnian fado but >gets an occasional admonition to get rid of his own tics and facial >expressions yet also has fans who enjoy these facial expressions face >during concerts and other people who approach him after concerts only >to tell how fascinating his eyebrows were and who never mention the >music he played - still, it makes a living -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: loaded guts
> But still, these are nice strings to use on the fingerboard. Any people with (dis)similar experiences? Yes and no. On an 11c made by Ivo Magherini, everything is fine with loaded gut bass strings on the 6 through 11th courses, no buzzing at all. When I fret loaded gut strings on other lutes, there is some buzzing one day, the other day there is none. I have taken this as hint for touching the courses more lightly with my RH thumb. Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
