[LUTE] Re: Broken consort
Dear All: In my experience the bass recorder is the instrument of the recorder family that blends best in the English consort. By the way, why not use the term English consort? Isn't there some historical basis for that? Cheers, Jim Oct 7, 2008 09:55:08 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Several have written concerning the imballance when high recorders are used (eg soprano). My own experience is biased by the recorders I own - alto, tenor. Yes, the alto is pretty strong in its higher register, not my usual first choice when playing in a pick-up ensemble unless the range dictates. Both of the tenors I own are nice and mellow, they make a nice contribution while not overshadowing anything. -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Broken consort
Dear Martyn, Thanks for the useful information and sources for cittern tunings. You did indeed explain what kind of flute was used in your first message - I was actually asking that question to Martin Shepherd! Your response was nevertheless interesting! As for the Morley pieces - the only one which seems imply a flute with a different tessituta is Joyne Hands. This goes up to a high G (none of the other pieces go above a D in the flute). I think the other Morley pieces are in exactly the same range as the rest of the pieces in the publication (Allison etc...). Thanks to everyone else for their comments too! Sam 2008/10/5 Martyn Hodgson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: A few sources that come to mind include: 1. LS Booklet by Gill (1977)page 7: Praetorius small english cittern string stop c. 35cm tuned f bflat' d g or f a' d g Also same tuning for 'gittern' an octave lower as below: evidence of 'gittern' in Payford's 1652 publication as suggesting mid/late 17thC citterns tuned as four course guitars and name gittern applied to them 2. NRI current historical notes on cittern strings extract In 1602 Meuler was able to produce an even stronger wire, which allowed the small cittern to tune up to g and some English players tuned it to gittern or ocatave- lute tuning Segerman then goes onto to speak about Payford's later instrument using the same intervals similar to outlined in 1 above. 3. Ward 'Sprightly and Cheerful Music' 1981 tunings page 11, 12. Ward's extended paper contains a number of references to cittern/gittern (eg Sir Peter Leycester's remarks we...do call a gitterne, which is only a treble Psittyrne.. and similar such as Rowbotham's 1569 publication) I hope you didn't read to earlier email that I was advocating such an instrument in this repertoire! My own knowledge of the cittern is limited and if you've anything to add, or correct, on cittern sizes, tunings, pitches etc for the 'Rroken Consort' I'd be delighted to hear it. MH --- On Sun, 5/10/08, Doc Rossi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Doc Rossi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Broken consort To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Sunday, 5 October, 2008, 10:14 AM On Oct 5, 2008, at 10:08 AM, Martyn Hodgson wrote: More recently the gittern tuning (with highest string on the first course at g') seems to have found favour Which tuning is this? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Sam Chapman Oetlingerstrasse 65 4057 Basel (0041) 79 530 39 91
[LUTE] Re: Broken consort
Thanks for all the advice on Flutes and other things. I'll definitely look up Bob Marvin's article. Ian also let me have a peek at a draft version of Chapter 13...I agree with you Stuart - it's going to be a fantastic book and just the kind of incredibly thorough study this repertoire needs. Thanks for pointing out the inadequacy of the term Broken Consort Ron. Confusing as it is, I decided to use the term when starting this discussion because it's still the one most people are familiar with, and I wanted to hear as many peoples comments about this repertoire as possible! All the best, Sam 2008/10/6 Ron Andrico [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Dear Stewart All: I thought the term 'Broken Consort' had long ago been abandoned in favor of 'Consort of Six' or something less confusing. Best wishes, Ron Andrico [1]www.mignarda.com Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 18:45:30 +0100 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [LUTE] Broken consort Dear Jean-Marie, A couple of weeks ago, I had the pleasure of reading through Chapter 13 on the Holmes manuscripts. It is extremely interesting, with lots of new information, and mistakes by others in the past corrected. There are still a few more chapters to go. Ian is very thorough, so progress is slow, despite the time he devotes to the book. Yes, he had to stop work for a while, because he had been working too hard, and he needed to take a break. However, he is now back at his computer, working on the final chapters. We shall have to wait a little longer, I'm afraid, but it will be worth it. From what I have read so far, I can safely say that it will be an excellent book. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: Jean-Marie Poirier [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04 October 2008 14:41 To: lute Subject: [LUTE] Re: Broken consort Puzzling, indeed ! I really look forward to the publication of Ian Harwood's book on the subject. Last time I went over to Norwich, in June this year, David van Edwards told me the book was well under way. I contacted Ian by email after that and he told me the same thing, but also that he had been delayed because he had overworked himself and the doctors had recommended him to sort of calm down... Alas, still no sign of this strongly expected book ! Does anyone on the list have fresher news than these about it ? All the best, Jean-Marie To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. [2]Learn Now -- References 1. http://www.mignarda.com/ 2. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_getmore_092008 -- Sam Chapman Oetlingerstrasse 65 4057 Basel (0041) 79 530 39 91
[LUTE] Re: [LUTE]Broken consort
I have had the same experience as Nancy, and playing consorts with a recorder was not a problem at all. You can just check that by listening to The Sacred End Pavin ( http://tinyurl.com/54jvhd ) and the Galliard to The Sacred End ( http://tinyurl.com/4tw9mp ). No bandora, a bass lute in D instead, and no cittern, a harp instead... The balance is satisfactory, at least to my ears ;-) All the best, Jean-Marie === 06-10-2008 07:52:54 === I last played the broken consorts a long, long time ago with a recorder and don't remember any problems with the octave shifts. I do remember some concern about whether the lute was loud enough. More recently I have enjoyed the CD by L'Poem Harmoniqe Love Is Strange, which includes broken consorts and arrangements of duets. Most (all?) of them are played with something other than the standard 6 instruments and the performances really sound great to me. Since hearing this I am becoming more in favor of looking at these consorts as scores with possibilities for all kinds of arrangements. The LSA Quarterly (February, 2008) has an article about playing the consorts with less instruments by Andrew Hartig Re-envisioning the Broken Cosort: Doing More with Less. If any of you, who are not subscribers would like a copy, email me back with a street address. Nancy Carlin These are interesting questions. At the recent Lute Society weekend Ian Harwood managed to assemble a consort at the high pitch - a minor third above modern pitch. I played my A lute tuned up a semitone, strung all in gut except for the top string which was nylgut. For a gut string I think you would need a slightly shorter string length (mine is 53.5cm). The treble part was played on a treble violin, the size of which made holding it quite tricky! The consort sounded good and the advantage of the high pitch solution is that the flute/recorder parts fit in the correct place in the texture. Ian does however have a bass flute which allows a low pitch consort to achieve the same thing. In any case I think it depends which pieces we're talking about as to whether the octave displacement of the flute causes a problem or not. Ian's dual-pitch hypothesis was originally based on the sizes of surviving viols, but he also has theories about the bandora which seem to make a lot of sense. I can't remember how it all relates to the sizes of surviving citterns but we used a small cittern for the high-pitch consort and it sounded fine. I note with interest that the designation treble lute and a high pitch of about a minor third above modern fits nicely with the notion that the mean lute was about a tone below modern pitch (a fourth lower than the high pitch) - arguments for which I have made elsewhere, e.g., in the brief essay on Dowland's lutes which can be found at [1]www.johndowland.co.uk Best wishes, Martin Sam Chapman wrote: Dear Lute list, I'm in the process of organizing a consort in Basel to play, among other things, pieces from the Morley consort lessons. Having read various articles on the subject and listened to recordings of the music, I'm left with some difficult questions: What pitch should the music be played at? What kind of flute should be used and should the part be played as written or up an octave? Why the designation for treble lute when clearly a G instrument is intended? These questions and others have been already been tackled by Ian Harwood in his several articles, but I would be very interested to hear other people's thoughts and opinions (and justifications). If you have experience performing this repertoire, how did you solve these problems? Many thanks, Sam To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Nancy Carlin Associates P.O. Box 6499 Concord, CA 94524 USA phone 925/686-5800 fax 925/680-2582 web site - [3]www.nancycarlinassociates.com Administrator THE LUTE SOCIETY OF AMERICA web site - [4]http://LuteSocietyofAmerica.org -- References 1. http://www.johndowland.co.uk/ 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 3. http://www.nancycarlinassociates.com/ 4. http://lutesocietyofamerica.org/ --- Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a ete controle par l'anti-virus mail. Aucun virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://poirierjm.free.fr 06-10-2008
[LUTE] Re: [LUTE]Broken consort
No wire strings??? What IS this world coming to... (very nice just the same) On Oct 6, 2008, at 12:17 PM, Jean-Marie Poirier wrote: I have had the same experience as Nancy, and playing consorts with a recorder was not a problem at all. You can just check that by listening to The Sacred End Pavin ( http://tinyurl.com/54jvhd ) and the Galliard to The Sacred End ( http://tinyurl.com/4tw9mp ). No bandora, a bass lute in D instead, and no cittern, a harp instead... The balance is satisfactory, at least to my ears ;-) All the best, Jean-Marie === 06-10-2008 07:52:54 === I last played the broken consorts a long, long time ago with a recorder and don't remember any problems with the octave shifts. I do remember some concern about whether the lute was loud enough. More recently I have enjoyed the CD by L'Poem Harmoniqe Love Is Strange, which includes broken consorts and arrangements of duets. Most (all?) of them are played with something other than the standard 6 instruments and the performances really sound great to me. Since hearing this I am becoming more in favor of looking at these consorts as scores with possibilities for all kinds of arrangements. The LSA Quarterly (February, 2008) has an article about playing the consorts with less instruments by Andrew Hartig Re-envisioning the Broken Cosort: Doing More with Less. If any of you, who are not subscribers would like a copy, email me back with a street address. Nancy Carlin These are interesting questions. At the recent Lute Society weekend Ian Harwood managed to assemble a consort at the high pitch - a minor third above modern pitch. I played my A lute tuned up a semitone, strung all in gut except for the top string which was nylgut. For a gut string I think you would need a slightly shorter string length (mine is 53.5cm). The treble part was played on a treble violin, the size of which made holding it quite tricky! The consort sounded good and the advantage of the high pitch solution is that the flute/recorder parts fit in the correct place in the texture. Ian does however have a bass flute which allows a low pitch consort to achieve the same thing. In any case I think it depends which pieces we're talking about as to whether the octave displacement of the flute causes a problem or not. Ian's dual-pitch hypothesis was originally based on the sizes of surviving viols, but he also has theories about the bandora which seem to make a lot of sense. I can't remember how it all relates to the sizes of surviving citterns but we used a small cittern for the high-pitch consort and it sounded fine. I note with interest that the designation treble lute and a high pitch of about a minor third above modern fits nicely with the notion that the mean lute was about a tone below modern pitch (a fourth lower than the high pitch) - arguments for which I have made elsewhere, e.g., in the brief essay on Dowland's lutes which can be found at [1]www.johndowland.co.uk Best wishes, Martin Sam Chapman wrote: Dear Lute list, I'm in the process of organizing a consort in Basel to play, among other things, pieces from the Morley consort lessons. Having read various articles on the subject and listened to recordings of the music, I'm left with some difficult questions: What pitch should the music be played at? What kind of flute should be used and should the part be played as written or up an octave? Why the designation for treble lute when clearly a G instrument is intended? These questions and others have been already been tackled by Ian Harwood in his several articles, but I would be very interested to hear other people's thoughts and opinions (and justifications). If you have experience performing this repertoire, how did you solve these problems? Many thanks, Sam To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Nancy Carlin Associates P.O. Box 6499 Concord, CA 94524 USA phone 925/686-5800 fax 925/680-2582 web site - [3]www.nancycarlinassociates.com Administrator THE LUTE SOCIETY OF AMERICA web site - [4]http://LuteSocietyofAmerica.org -- References 1. http://www.johndowland.co.uk/ 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 3. http://www.nancycarlinassociates.com/ 4. http://lutesocietyofamerica.org/ --- Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a ete controle par l'anti-virus mail. Aucun virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://poirierjm.free.fr 06-10-2008
[LUTE] Re: Broken consort
Dear Stewart All: I thought the term 'Broken Consort' had long ago been abandoned in favor of 'Consort of Six' or something less confusing. Best wishes, Ron Andrico [1]www.mignarda.com Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 18:45:30 +0100 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [LUTE] Broken consort Dear Jean-Marie, A couple of weeks ago, I had the pleasure of reading through Chapter 13 on the Holmes manuscripts. It is extremely interesting, with lots of new information, and mistakes by others in the past corrected. There are still a few more chapters to go. Ian is very thorough, so progress is slow, despite the time he devotes to the book. Yes, he had to stop work for a while, because he had been working too hard, and he needed to take a break. However, he is now back at his computer, working on the final chapters. We shall have to wait a little longer, I'm afraid, but it will be worth it. From what I have read so far, I can safely say that it will be an excellent book. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: Jean-Marie Poirier [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04 October 2008 14:41 To: lute Subject: [LUTE] Re: Broken consort Puzzling, indeed ! I really look forward to the publication of Ian Harwood's book on the subject. Last time I went over to Norwich, in June this year, David van Edwards told me the book was well under way. I contacted Ian by email after that and he told me the same thing, but also that he had been delayed because he had overworked himself and the doctors had recommended him to sort of calm down... Alas, still no sign of this strongly expected book ! Does anyone on the list have fresher news than these about it ? All the best, Jean-Marie To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. [2]Learn Now -- References 1. http://www.mignarda.com/ 2. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_getmore_092008
[LUTE] Broken consort
Dear Jean-Marie, My own experience is not the same as yours and Nancy's. I find the recorder obtrusive. It upsets the balance of the ensemble, whereas the flute blends well with the other instruments. In the first record of early music I ever bought - Two Renaissance Dance Bands with David Munrow and others - the recorder is used instead of the flute for Morley consort lessons, and the overall balance is not very good. For one piece, Morley's Coranto, David Munrow even plays the top line on his recorder, leaving the treble viol to accompany him with the flute part. I believe there is a link between the English consort and music in France in the 1530s and 1540s, where a flute and lute combine to accompany a singer. The well-known Jouissance paintings are an example of what I have in mind. True, the recorder does occasionally turn up in French pictures from that earlier period, but it is nearly always the flute which is seen alongside the lute. We know that the recorder was used by Matthew Holmes' consort in Oxford, but I suspect it was very much a case of faute de mieux. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: Jean-Marie Poirier [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 06 October 2008 11:17 To: lute Subject: [LUTE] Re: [LUTE]Broken consort I have had the same experience as Nancy, and playing consorts with a recorder was not a problem at all. You can just check that by listening to The Sacred End Pavin ( http://tinyurl.com/54jvhd ) and the Galliard to The Sacred End ( http://tinyurl.com/4tw9mp ). No bandora, a bass lute in D instead, and no cittern, a harp instead... The balance is satisfactory, at least to my ears ;-) All the best, Jean-Marie To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Broken consort
Dear Ron, Yes, you're right, which is why I avoided using the word broken, apart from in the title of the thread. I also avoided it in the email I have just posted about recorders/flutes in the consort. The Elizabethans used the phrase broken music to describe music with divisions, but referred to the ensemble as the consort. Matthew Locke used the phrase broken consort, but that was much later, and for a different line-up of instruments. In recent years people have come up with alternatives - Morley consort, mixed consort, and consort-of-six - but none is wholly satisfactory, since none was used by the Elizabethans either. In my last email I used the phrase Morley consort lessons, but that was specifically for consort lessons published by Thomas Morley. One has to be so careful. :-) Best wishes, Stewart. -Original Message- From: Ron Andrico [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 06 October 2008 10:26 To: Stewart McCoy; Lute Net Subject: RE: [LUTE] Broken consort Dear Stewart All: I thought the term 'Broken Consort' had long ago been abandoned in favor of 'Consort of Six' or something less confusing. Best wishes, Ron Andrico -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: [LUTE]Broken consort
Sadly true, Doc...for fear we might get wired up ;() Jean-Marie === 06-10-2008 12:37:36 === No wire strings??? What IS this world coming to... = = = = = = = = [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://adueliuti.free.fr 06-10-2008 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Broken consort
My wife and I just played some renaissance flutes and recorders and they were close to 440, maybe a bit lower, whatever the keynote was. The instruments came in many sizes, so what was a D flute or a C flute or a small bass flute is an interesting question. All of the instruments sounded different than the modern copies==better. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Broken consort
On Oct 5, 2008, at 10:08 AM, Martyn Hodgson wrote: More recently the gittern tuning (with highest string on the first course at g') seems to have found favour Which tuning is this? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Broken consort
A few sources that come to mind include: 1. LS Booklet by Gill (1977)page 7: Praetorius small english cittern string stop c. 35cm tuned f bflat' d g or f a' d g Also same tuning for 'gittern' an octave lower as below: evidence of 'gittern' in Payford's 1652 publication as suggesting mid/late 17thC citterns tuned as four course guitars and name gittern applied to them 2. NRI current historical notes on cittern strings extract In 1602 Meuler was able to produce an even stronger wire, which allowed the small cittern to tune up to g and some English players tuned it to gittern or ocatave- lute tuning Segerman then goes onto to speak about Payford's later instrument using the same intervals similar to outlined in 1 above. 3. Ward 'Sprightly and Cheerful Music' 1981 tunings page 11, 12. Ward's extended paper contains a number of references to cittern/gittern (eg Sir Peter Leycester's remarks we...do call a gitterne, which is only a treble Psittyrne.. and similar such as Rowbotham's 1569 publication) I hope you didn't read to earlier email that I was advocating such an instrument in this repertoire! My own knowledge of the cittern is limited and if you've anything to add, or correct, on cittern sizes, tunings, pitches etc for the 'Rroken Consort' I'd be delighted to hear it. MH --- On Sun, 5/10/08, Doc Rossi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Doc Rossi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Broken consort To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Sunday, 5 October, 2008, 10:14 AM On Oct 5, 2008, at 10:08 AM, Martyn Hodgson wrote: More recently the gittern tuning (with highest string on the first course at g') seems to have found favour Which tuning is this? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Broken consort
On Sun, Oct 5, 2008, Doc Rossi [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: 2. NRI current historical notes on cittern strings extract In 1602 Meuler was able to produce an even stronger wire, which allowed the small cittern to tune up to g note that the so-called mueller wire is argued, clear that something he produced was exceptional, but just what it was, how it differed, and how it was used is at issue. Maybe it provided wire stronger than modern stainless steel is for top strings, maybe something else. Maybe it allowed Orpharino stringing on instruments like the Rose 1562 'Bandora', perhaps top strings for instruments like the small Praetorius english cittern and the surviving 35cm cittern (NMM 135000); sadly, records of import of his strings into england and other such hard evidence are not in evidence, leaving us to a great deal of conjecture. -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Broken consort
I last played the broken consorts a long, long time ago with a recorder and don't remember any problems with the octave shifts. I do remember some concern about whether the lute was loud enough. More recently I have enjoyed the CD by L'Poem Harmoniqe Love Is Strange, which includes broken consorts and arrangements of duets. Most (all?) of them are played with something other than the standard 6 instruments and the performances really sound great to me. Since hearing this I am becoming more in favor of looking at these consorts as scores with possibilities for all kinds of arrangements. The LSA Quarterly (February, 2008) has an article about playing the consorts with less instruments by Andrew Hartig Re-envisioning the Broken Cosort: Doing More with Less. If any of you, who are not subscribers would like a copy, email me back with a street address. Nancy Carlin These are interesting questions. At the recent Lute Society weekend Ian Harwood managed to assemble a consort at the high pitch - a minor third above modern pitch. I played my A lute tuned up a semitone, strung all in gut except for the top string which was nylgut. For a gut string I think you would need a slightly shorter string length (mine is 53.5cm). The treble part was played on a treble violin, the size of which made holding it quite tricky! The consort sounded good and the advantage of the high pitch solution is that the flute/recorder parts fit in the correct place in the texture. Ian does however have a bass flute which allows a low pitch consort to achieve the same thing. In any case I think it depends which pieces we're talking about as to whether the octave displacement of the flute causes a problem or not. Ian's dual-pitch hypothesis was originally based on the sizes of surviving viols, but he also has theories about the bandora which seem to make a lot of sense. I can't remember how it all relates to the sizes of surviving citterns but we used a small cittern for the high-pitch consort and it sounded fine. I note with interest that the designation treble lute and a high pitch of about a minor third above modern fits nicely with the notion that the mean lute was about a tone below modern pitch (a fourth lower than the high pitch) - arguments for which I have made elsewhere, e.g., in the brief essay on Dowland's lutes which can be found at [1]www.johndowland.co.uk Best wishes, Martin Sam Chapman wrote: Dear Lute list, I'm in the process of organizing a consort in Basel to play, among other things, pieces from the Morley consort lessons. Having read various articles on the subject and listened to recordings of the music, I'm left with some difficult questions: What pitch should the music be played at? What kind of flute should be used and should the part be played as written or up an octave? Why the designation for treble lute when clearly a G instrument is intended? These questions and others have been already been tackled by Ian Harwood in his several articles, but I would be very interested to hear other people's thoughts and opinions (and justifications). If you have experience performing this repertoire, how did you solve these problems? Many thanks, Sam To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Nancy Carlin Associates P.O. Box 6499 Concord, CA 94524 USA phone 925/686-5800 fax 925/680-2582 web site - [3]www.nancycarlinassociates.com Administrator THE LUTE SOCIETY OF AMERICA web site - [4]http://LuteSocietyofAmerica.org -- References 1. http://www.johndowland.co.uk/ 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 3. http://www.nancycarlinassociates.com/ 4. http://lutesocietyofamerica.org/
[LUTE] Re: Broken consort
Hi Sam, These are interesting questions. At the recent Lute Society weekend Ian Harwood managed to assemble a consort at the high pitch - a minor third above modern pitch. I played my A lute tuned up a semitone, strung all in gut except for the top string which was nylgut. For a gut string I think you would need a slightly shorter string length (mine is 53.5cm). The treble part was played on a treble violin, the size of which made holding it quite tricky! The consort sounded good and the advantage of the high pitch solution is that the flute/recorder parts fit in the correct place in the texture. Ian does however have a bass flute which allows a low pitch consort to achieve the same thing. In any case I think it depends which pieces we're talking about as to whether the octave displacement of the flute causes a problem or not. Ian's dual-pitch hypothesis was originally based on the sizes of surviving viols, but he also has theories about the bandora which seem to make a lot of sense. I can't remember how it all relates to the sizes of surviving citterns but we used a small cittern for the high-pitch consort and it sounded fine. I note with interest that the designation treble lute and a high pitch of about a minor third above modern fits nicely with the notion that the mean lute was about a tone below modern pitch (a fourth lower than the high pitch) - arguments for which I have made elsewhere, e.g., in the brief essay on Dowland's lutes which can be found at www.johndowland.co.uk Best wishes, Martin Sam Chapman wrote: Dear Lute list, I'm in the process of organizing a consort in Basel to play, among other things, pieces from the Morley consort lessons. Having read various articles on the subject and listened to recordings of the music, I'm left with some difficult questions: What pitch should the music be played at? What kind of flute should be used and should the part be played as written or up an octave? Why the designation for treble lute when clearly a G instrument is intended? These questions and others have been already been tackled by Ian Harwood in his several articles, but I would be very interested to hear other people's thoughts and opinions (and justifications). If you have experience performing this repertoire, how did you solve these problems? Many thanks, Sam To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Broken consort
Dear Martin, What is the early evidence from England that 'treble' lutes were generally considered such very small lutes (ie c 48/50cm string stop). Are they not nowadays more generally thought as being simply lutes a tone (or so) above the ordinary common or 'mean' lute as, for example, often required for duets a tone apart found in various sources both continental as well as English? This would suggest a pitch only a tone higher than general 'lute' pitch rather than a fourth higher. On flutes: many years ago I played these pieces with a transverse bass flute (John Cousen) and recall it was pretty inaudible. It also looked considerably larger than the traverso in the best historical depiction of this sort of ensemble (Scenes from the life of Sir Henry Unton, Unkown artist, c. 1596). In this painting the lute and cittern and violin also look to me like ordinary sized instruments (lute, say, around 55 - 63cm string stop), tho' the bass viol looks smaller than might be expected, but then such a quiet consort would have little need of a powerful full sized consort bass. Interestingly, the viol is shown being played with overhand bow with the hand on the treble side of the instrument - wether this is artistic ignorance or attempting to depict the overarm way of playing shown in some continental paintings I cannot say. Praetorius also speaks about the ambiguity of the pitch of flutes and that even he was fooled for a time (see Beck Editorial Note p. 40 and translation). In short, I think the weight of evidence is that an ordinary sized traverso of the period was used for most of these consorts. The exception is for Morley's arrangements of his own lighter pieces which seem to be notated at pitch; the other pieces are mostly by other composers particularly associated with this form (eg Allison) and presumably from manuscripts copied for the Morley print. regards Martyn --- On Sat, 4/10/08, Martin Shepherd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Martin Shepherd [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [LUTE] Re: Broken consort To: Sam Chapman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Saturday, 4 October, 2008, 10:54 AM Hi Sam, These are interesting questions. At the recent Lute Society weekend Ian Harwood managed to assemble a consort at the high pitch - a minor third above modern pitch. I played my A lute tuned up a semitone, strung all in gut except for the top string which was nylgut. For a gut string I think you would need a slightly shorter string length (mine is 53.5cm). The treble part was played on a treble violin, the size of which made holding it quite tricky! The consort sounded good and the advantage of the high pitch solution is that the flute/recorder parts fit in the correct place in the texture. Ian does however have a bass flute which allows a low pitch consort to achieve the same thing. In any case I think it depends which pieces we're talking about as to whether the octave displacement of the flute causes a problem or not. Ian's dual-pitch hypothesis was originally based on the sizes of surviving viols, but he also has theories about the bandora which seem to make a lot of sense. I can't remember how it all relates to the sizes of surviving citterns but we used a small cittern for the high-pitch consort and it sounded fine. I note with interest that the designation treble lute and a high pitch of about a minor third above modern fits nicely with the notion that the mean lute was about a tone below modern pitch (a fourth lower than the high pitch) - arguments for which I have made elsewhere, e.g., in the brief essay on Dowland's lutes which can be found at www.johndowland.co.uk Best wishes, Martin Sam Chapman wrote: Dear Lute list, I'm in the process of organizing a consort in Basel to play, among other things, pieces from the Morley consort lessons. Having read various articles on the subject and listened to recordings of the music, I'm left with some difficult questions: What pitch should the music be played at? What kind of flute should be used and should the part be played as written or up an octave? Why the designation for treble lute when clearly a G instrument is intended? These questions and others have been already been tackled by Ian Harwood in his several articles, but I would be very interested to hear other people's thoughts and opinions (and justifications). If you have experience performing this repertoire, how did you solve these problems? Many thanks, Sam To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Broken consort
Puzzling, indeed ! I really look forward to the publication of Ian Harwood's book on the subject. Last time I went over to Norwich, in June this year, David van Edwards told me the book was well under way. I contacted Ian by email after that and he told me the same thing, but also that he had been delayed because he had overworked himself and the doctors had recommended him to sort of calm down... Alas, still no sign of this strongly expected book ! Does anyone on the list have fresher news than these about it ? All the best, Jean-Marie === 04-10-2008 15:02:04 === Dear Martin, What is the early evidence from England that 'treble' lutes were generally considered such very small lutes (ie c 48/50cm string stop). Are they not nowadays more generally thought as being simply lutes a tone (or so) above the ordinary common or 'mean' lute as, for example, often required for duets a tone apart found in various sources both continental as well as English? This would suggest a pitch only a tone higher than general 'lute' pitch rather than a fourth higher. On flutes: many years ago I played these pieces with a transverse bass flute (John Cousen) and recall it was pretty inaudible. It also looked considerably larger than the traverso in the best historical depiction of this sort of ensemble (Scenes from the life of Sir Henry Unton, Unkown artist, c. 1596). In this painting the lute and cittern and violin also look to me like ordinary sized instruments (lute, say, around 55 - 63cm string stop), tho' the bass viol looks smaller than might be expected, but then such a quiet consort would have little need of a powerful full sized consort bass. Interestingly, the viol is shown being played with overhand bow with the hand on the treble side of the instrument - wether this is artistic ignorance or attempting to depict the overarm way of playing shown in some continental paintings I cannot say. Praetorius also speaks about the ambiguity of the pitch of flutes and that even he was fooled for a time (see Beck Editorial Note p. 40 and translation). In short, I think the weight of evidence is that an ordinary sized traverso of the period was used for most of these consorts. The exception is for Morley's arrangements of his own lighter pieces which seem to be notated at pitch; the other pieces are mostly by other composers particularly associated with this form (eg Allison) and presumably from manuscripts copied for the Morley print. regards Martyn --- On Sat, 4/10/08, Martin Shepherd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Martin Shepherd [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [LUTE] Re: Broken consort To: Sam Chapman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Saturday, 4 October, 2008, 10:54 AM Hi Sam, These are interesting questions. At the recent Lute Society weekend Ian Harwood managed to assemble a consort at the high pitch - a minor third above modern pitch. I played my A lute tuned up a semitone, strung all in gut except for the top string which was nylgut. For a gut string I think you would need a slightly shorter string length (mine is 53.5cm). The treble part was played on a treble violin, the size of which made holding it quite tricky! The consort sounded good and the advantage of the high pitch solution is that the flute/recorder parts fit in the correct place in the texture. Ian does however have a bass flute which allows a low pitch consort to achieve the same thing. In any case I think it depends which pieces we're talking about as to whether the octave displacement of the flute causes a problem or not. Ian's dual-pitch hypothesis was originally based on the sizes of surviving viols, but he also has theories about the bandora which seem to make a lot of sense. I can't remember how it all relates to the sizes of surviving citterns but we used a small cittern for the high-pitch consort and it sounded fine. I note with interest that the designation treble lute and a high pitch of about a minor third above modern fits nicely with the notion that the mean lute was about a tone below modern pitch (a fourth lower than the high pitch) - arguments for which I have made elsewhere, e.g., in the brief essay on Dowland's lutes which can be found at www.johndowland.co.uk Best wishes, Martin Sam Chapman wrote: Dear Lute list, I'm in the process of organizing a consort in Basel to play, among other things, pieces from the Morley consort lessons. Having read various articles on the subject and listened to recordings of the music, I'm left with some difficult questions: What pitch should the music be played at? What kind of flute should be used and should the part be played as written or up an octave? Why the designation for treble lute when clearly a G instrument is intended? These questions and others have been already been tackled by Ian Harwood in his several
[LUTE] Re: Broken consort
Hi Martin, Which pieces did you play? Were they from the Morley publication, the Holmes manuscripts, or something else? Did you use flute or recorder? It wasn't quite clear from your Email if the flute/recorder played at the written pitch or an octave higher (I assume it was the former if you were demonstrating Ian's ideas). As I understood it, even with instruments playing at high pitch, a bass flute in the low pitch is still needed to produce all the lowest notes found in the repertoire at their written pitch. So do you mean that Ian has another even lower pitched bass flute? Or did you simply avoid the few pieces which go below low G on the flute (in which case a bass flute at the same pitch as the other instruments is sufficient). I'm slightly concerned about the flute being more or less inaudible when a bass instrument is played at written pitch. How was the balance in your group? Lots of complicated questions, sorry! All the best, Sam 2008/10/4 Martin Shepherd [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Sam, These are interesting questions. At the recent Lute Society weekend Ian Harwood managed to assemble a consort at the high pitch - a minor third above modern pitch. I played my A lute tuned up a semitone, strung all in gut except for the top string which was nylgut. For a gut string I think you would need a slightly shorter string length (mine is 53.5cm). The treble part was played on a treble violin, the size of which made holding it quite tricky! The consort sounded good and the advantage of the high pitch solution is that the flute/recorder parts fit in the correct place in the texture. Ian does however have a bass flute which allows a low pitch consort to achieve the same thing. In any case I think it depends which pieces we're talking about as to whether the octave displacement of the flute causes a problem or not. Ian's dual-pitch hypothesis was originally based on the sizes of surviving viols, but he also has theories about the bandora which seem to make a lot of sense. I can't remember how it all relates to the sizes of surviving citterns but we used a small cittern for the high-pitch consort and it sounded fine. I note with interest that the designation treble lute and a high pitch of about a minor third above modern fits nicely with the notion that the mean lute was about a tone below modern pitch (a fourth lower than the high pitch) - arguments for which I have made elsewhere, e.g., in the brief essay on Dowland's lutes which can be found at www.johndowland.co.uk Best wishes, Martin Sam Chapman wrote: Dear Lute list, I'm in the process of organizing a consort in Basel to play, among other things, pieces from the Morley consort lessons. Having read various articles on the subject and listened to recordings of the music, I'm left with some difficult questions: What pitch should the music be played at? What kind of flute should be used and should the part be played as written or up an octave? Why the designation for treble lute when clearly a G instrument is intended? These questions and others have been already been tackled by Ian Harwood in his several articles, but I would be very interested to hear other people's thoughts and opinions (and justifications). If you have experience performing this repertoire, how did you solve these problems? Many thanks, Sam -- Sam Chapman Oetlingerstrasse 65 4057 Basel (0041) 79 530 39 91 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Broken consort
Dear Sam, I'm copying Ian into this because apart from the fact that most of the pieces we played were from the Holmes MSS, I can't remember the details of what the flute parts do. Can you enlighten us, Ian? Best wishes, Martin Sam Chapman wrote: Hi Martin, Which pieces did you play? Were they from the Morley publication, the Holmes manuscripts, or something else? Did you use flute or recorder? It wasn't quite clear from your Email if the flute/recorder played at the written pitch or an octave higher (I assume it was the former if you were demonstrating Ian's ideas). As I understood it, even with instruments playing at high pitch, a bass flute in the low pitch is still needed to produce all the lowest notes found in the repertoire at their written pitch. So do you mean that Ian has another even lower pitched bass flute? Or did you simply avoid the few pieces which go below low G on the flute (in which case a bass flute at the same pitch as the other instruments is sufficient). I'm slightly concerned about the flute being more or less inaudible when a bass instrument is played at written pitch. How was the balance in your group? Lots of complicated questions, sorry! All the best, Sam 2008/10/4 Martin Shepherd [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Sam, These are interesting questions. At the recent Lute Society weekend Ian Harwood managed to assemble a consort at the high pitch - a minor third above modern pitch. I played my A lute tuned up a semitone, strung all in gut except for the top string which was nylgut. For a gut string I think you would need a slightly shorter string length (mine is 53.5cm). The treble part was played on a treble violin, the size of which made holding it quite tricky! The consort sounded good and the advantage of the high pitch solution is that the flute/recorder parts fit in the correct place in the texture. Ian does however have a bass flute which allows a low pitch consort to achieve the same thing. In any case I think it depends which pieces we're talking about as to whether the octave displacement of the flute causes a problem or not. Ian's dual-pitch hypothesis was originally based on the sizes of surviving viols, but he also has theories about the bandora which seem to make a lot of sense. I can't remember how it all relates to the sizes of surviving citterns but we used a small cittern for the high-pitch consort and it sounded fine. I note with interest that the designation treble lute and a high pitch of about a minor third above modern fits nicely with the notion that the mean lute was about a tone below modern pitch (a fourth lower than the high pitch) - arguments for which I have made elsewhere, e.g., in the brief essay on Dowland's lutes which can be found at www.johndowland.co.uk Best wishes, Martin Sam Chapman wrote: Dear Lute list, I'm in the process of organizing a consort in Basel to play, among other things, pieces from the Morley consort lessons. Having read various articles on the subject and listened to recordings of the music, I'm left with some difficult questions: What pitch should the music be played at? What kind of flute should be used and should the part be played as written or up an octave? Why the designation for treble lute when clearly a G instrument is intended? These questions and others have been already been tackled by Ian Harwood in his several articles, but I would be very interested to hear other people's thoughts and opinions (and justifications). If you have experience performing this repertoire, how did you solve these problems? Many thanks, Sam To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Broken consort
Dear Martyn, Thanks for your interesting ideas. From what you wrote then, there seems to be some justifiaction for performing the consort music at A-440hz (treating the A lute as an instrument in G). Most of the traverso players I know possess and play instruments only in 415hz or 440hz, so this would make life easier at least. Does anyone know what pitch existing english flutes and recorders where normally tuned to? Is there evidence for instruments at 392hz, and if so why are these instruments so seldom copied? The strange viol bowhold in Upton's famous painting can be seen in many other pictures, so I think it can be considered as a playing technique rather than an artist's ignorance. See the viol players here for example: http://silviart.altervista.org/blog/?p=20 I've asked players to try it out, and the sound produced is very clear and articulated and actually ideal for consort playing! Legend has it that Hopkinson Smith once asked Jordi Savall to try out this technique (but Jordi refused). I'll have a look again at the Morley pieces compared to those by other composers and see if I agree with your ideas... All the best, Sam 2008/10/4 Martyn Hodgson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Dear Martin, What is the early evidence from England that 'treble' lutes were generally considered such very small lutes (ie c 48/50cm string stop). Are they not nowadays more generally thought as being simply lutes a tone (or so) above the ordinary common or 'mean' lute as, for example, often required for duets a tone apart found in various sources both continental as well as English? This would suggest a pitch only a tone higher than general 'lute' pitch rather than a fourth higher. On flutes: many years ago I played these pieces with a transverse bass flute (John Cousen) and recall it was pretty inaudible. It also looked considerably larger than the traverso in the best historical depiction of this sort of ensemble (Scenes from the life of Sir Henry Unton, Unkown artist, c. 1596). In this painting the lute and cittern and violin also look to me like ordinary sized instruments (lute, say, around 55 - 63cm string stop), tho' the bass viol looks smaller than might be expected, but then such a quiet consort would have little need of a powerful full sized consort bass. Interestingly, the viol is shown being played with overhand bow with the hand on the treble side of the instrument - wether this is artistic ignorance or attempting to depict the overarm way of playing shown in some continental paintings I cannot say. Praetorius also speaks about the ambiguity of the pitch of flutes and that even he was fooled for a time (see Beck Editorial Note p. 40 and translation). In short, I think the weight of evidence is that an ordinary sized traverso of the period was used for most of these consorts. The exception is for Morley's arrangements of his own lighter pieces which seem to be notated at pitch; the other pieces are mostly by other composers particularly associated with this form (eg Allison) and presumably from manuscripts copied for the Morley print. regards Martyn --- On Sat, 4/10/08, Martin Shepherd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Martin Shepherd [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [LUTE] Re: Broken consort To: Sam Chapman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Saturday, 4 October, 2008, 10:54 AM Hi Sam, These are interesting questions. At the recent Lute Society weekend Ian Harwood managed to assemble a consort at the high pitch - a minor third above modern pitch. I played my A lute tuned up a semitone, strung all in gut except for the top string which was nylgut. For a gut string I think you would need a slightly shorter string length (mine is 53.5cm). The treble part was played on a treble violin, the size of which made holding it quite tricky! The consort sounded good and the advantage of the high pitch solution is that the flute/recorder parts fit in the correct place in the texture. Ian does however have a bass flute which allows a low pitch consort to achieve the same thing. In any case I think it depends which pieces we're talking about as to whether the octave displacement of the flute causes a problem or not. Ian's dual-pitch hypothesis was originally based on the sizes of surviving viols, but he also has theories about the bandora which seem to make a lot of sense. I can't remember how it all relates to the sizes of surviving citterns but we used a small cittern for the high-pitch consort and it sounded fine. I note with interest that the designation treble lute and a high pitch of about a minor third above modern fits nicely with the notion that the mean lute was about a tone below modern pitch (a fourth lower than the high pitch) - arguments for which I have made elsewhere, e.g., in the brief essay on Dowland's lutes which can be found at www.johndowland.co.uk Best wishes, Martin
[LUTE] Broken consort
Dear Jean-Marie, A couple of weeks ago, I had the pleasure of reading through Chapter 13 on the Holmes manuscripts. It is extremely interesting, with lots of new information, and mistakes by others in the past corrected. There are still a few more chapters to go. Ian is very thorough, so progress is slow, despite the time he devotes to the book. Yes, he had to stop work for a while, because he had been working too hard, and he needed to take a break. However, he is now back at his computer, working on the final chapters. We shall have to wait a little longer, I'm afraid, but it will be worth it. From what I have read so far, I can safely say that it will be an excellent book. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: Jean-Marie Poirier [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04 October 2008 14:41 To: lute Subject: [LUTE] Re: Broken consort Puzzling, indeed ! I really look forward to the publication of Ian Harwood's book on the subject. Last time I went over to Norwich, in June this year, David van Edwards told me the book was well under way. I contacted Ian by email after that and he told me the same thing, but also that he had been delayed because he had overworked himself and the doctors had recommended him to sort of calm down... Alas, still no sign of this strongly expected book ! Does anyone on the list have fresher news than these about it ? All the best, Jean-Marie To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Broken consort
Dear Stewart, Thank you very much for this update of my information about Ian's book. I look forward to reading it with still more impatience after reading you ! Best wishes, Jean-Marie === 04-10-2008 19:45:30 === Dear Jean-Marie, A couple of weeks ago, I had the pleasure of reading through Chapter 13 on the Holmes manuscripts. It is extremely interesting, with lots of new information, and mistakes by others in the past corrected. There are still a few more chapters to go. Ian is very thorough, so progress is slow, despite the time he devotes to the book. Yes, he had to stop work for a while, because he had been working too hard, and he needed to take a break. However, he is now back at his computer, working on the final chapters. We shall have to wait a little longer, I'm afraid, but it will be worth it. From what I have read so far, I can safely say that it will be an excellent book. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: Jean-Marie Poirier [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04 October 2008 14:41 To: lute Subject: [LUTE] Re: Broken consort Puzzling, indeed ! I really look forward to the publication of Ian Harwood's book on the subject. Last time I went over to Norwich, in June this year, David van Edwards told me the book was well under way. I contacted Ian by email after that and he told me the same thing, but also that he had been delayed because he had overworked himself and the doctors had recommended him to sort of calm down... Alas, still no sign of this strongly expected book ! Does anyone on the list have fresher news than these about it ? All the best, Jean-Marie To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a ete controle par l'anti-virus mail. Aucun virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://poirierjm.free.fr 04-10-2008
[LUTE] Broken consort
Dear Lute list, I'm in the process of organizing a consort in Basel to play, among other things, pieces from the Morley consort lessons. Having read various articles on the subject and listened to recordings of the music, I'm left with some difficult questions: What pitch should the music be played at? What kind of flute should be used and should the part be played as written or up an octave? Why the designation for treble lute when clearly a G instrument is intended? These questions and others have been already been tackled by Ian Harwood in his several articles, but I would be very interested to hear other people's thoughts and opinions (and justifications). If you have experience performing this repertoire, how did you solve these problems? Many thanks, Sam -- Sam Chapman Oetlingerstrasse 65 4057 Basel (0041) 79 530 39 91 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Broken Consort
Thanks to all who replied to my message. As always it is a pleasure how much information I can get from this list. Best wishes Thomas To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Thomas Schall Niederhofheimer Weg 3 D-65843 Sulzbach 06196/74519 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Broken Consort
I'm looking for sources for broken consort music. Morley and the likes. Any Musica Brittanica has a volume with broken consort music. David To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Broken Consort
Thomas: This semester Case Western Reserve University here in Cleveland is performing all known music connected with Lord Hayes 1607 masque, directed by David Douglass. I'm playing cittern in the broken consort, although only two works exist originally as broken consort settings (Richard Allison and Phillip Rosseter). The rest is all four or five part instrumental repertoire and we simply make up our own parts. In some parts of the performance the broken consort will accompany other groups like the violin band or recorder quintet or in the tutti sections. The point is, although the amount of actual broken consort literature for violin, flute, viol, bandora, cittern and lute is limited in modern publication and original sources (incomplete or missing parts sometimes), there is plenty of music to arrange once you're familiar with the conventions. The Baltimore Consort, for example, has an almost limitless repertoire for broken consort, even trespassing into Irish and Appalachian! Kenneth -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Broken Consort
Hi, I'm looking for sources for broken consort music. Morley and the likes. Any recomendations? Best wishes Thomas -- Thomas Schall Niederhofheimer Weg 3 D-65843 Sulzbach 06196/74519 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Broken Consort
Dear Thomas: There an easy-to-read edition published by Baylor University of Texas -- one of the few good things to come out of Texas lately. Yours, Jim Thomas Schall [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu ist.de cc: Subject: Broken Consort 02/28/2005 05:34 PM Please respond to lautenist Hi, I'm looking for sources for broken consort music. Morley and the likes. Any recomendations? Best wishes Thomas -- Thomas Schall Niederhofheimer Weg 3 D-65843 Sulzbach 06196/74519 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Broken Consort
Don't forget our lute-playing President... ...I mean, of the LSA ;^) Sean On Feb 28, 2005, at 3:26 PM, James A Stimson wrote: Dear Thomas: There an easy-to-read edition published by Baylor University of Texas -- one of the few good things to come out of Texas lately. Yours, Jim Thomas Schall [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu ist.de cc: Subject: Broken Consort 02/28/2005 05:34 PM Please respond to lautenist Hi, I'm looking for sources for broken consort music. Morley and the likes. Any recomendations? Best wishes Thomas -- Thomas Schall Niederhofheimer Weg 3 D-65843 Sulzbach 06196/74519 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
