Re: FW: Girl with the Pearl Earing
In a message dated 1/8/04 4:55:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > The one that > Vermeer has painted is a flat rose like those you find in Stradivarius and > Koch guitars. It is also golded, something I have seen on harpsichords, > zyther, cimbalum, harp, spinett, but never on a guitar (which doesn't mean > it doesn't exist). I have seen a beautiful gilded rose on a lute by Michael Lowe owned by Anthony Rooley. It is pictured on the cover of his lutesongs of Dowland CD called The English Orpheus. There is always the possibility that Vermeer directly copied a rose from a keyboard and took the artistic freedom to "insert" it to the guitar. The magic of such realistic looking paintings is that they can cunningly fool you into taking everything for granted, almost like photos (such as all this discussion about the woman's right hand position on the guitar).As we all know, even photos can deceive! Sometimes, in fact, artists intentionally "deceive" or play tricks with the viewer by such slight adjustments to reality. Kenneth Be Cleveland, Ohio --
FW: Girl with the Pearl Earing
-- De : Philippe Mottet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date : Wed, 07 Jan 2004 23:50:10 +0100 À : Doctor Oakroot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Objet : Re: Girl with the Pearl Earing le 7.1.2004 18:14, Doctor Oakroot à [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : > It looks pretty realistic to me. > > >> The pistagne looks as if it was a whool twisted strand: I can't imagine >> the >> way you would realise this in wood. > > My guitarron (Mexican bass guitar) has a very similar border made from > alternating pieces of different colored wood. This kind of border is usual in french baroque guitar making, the members of the Voboam family (René, Alexandre and Jean) use it with slight variations, and call this a "pistagne". I have built several copies of these guitars, using alternating pieces of ebony and holly. What I don't understand in the Vermeer painting is that these pieces are twisted, in a way that would offer a maximum of difficulties to realise with pieces of wood, if ever possible. It is painted like a similar ornament that you would find on the border of a coat, made of wool. (Even a difficult motif like the one you can see on the original fingerboard of the Jaquemart-André vihuela would much simpler to realise that the "pistagne" of this Vermeer). This "pistagne" is irregular, the angle is not continuously the same. It goes straight around the table, not separated under the bridge in two flows going in opposite directions, as it usually is. >> The overall aspect is that of a french instrument, but the rosette is not in this style, as the french makers used two or three level roses. The one that Vermeer has painted is a flat rose like those you find in Stradivarius and Koch guitars. It is also golded, something I have seen on harpsichords, zyther, cimbalum, harp, spinett, but never on a guitar (which doesn't mean it doesn't exist). Philippe > > Certainly the rosette looks rather odd - but this may be something to do >> with the state of the painting.Can't tell from the online image. Looks like the rosette might be a > picture rather than an abstract design, but that's certainly believable. > >>
Re: Girl with the Pearl Earing
In a message dated 1/7/04 10:09:06 AM Eastern Standard Time,=20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Certainly the rosette looks rather odd - but this may be=A0 something to d= o > with the state of the painting.=A0 I seem to recall that many of his paint= ings > survive in a poor state or have been badly restored because they were all > sold off on his death.=A0 I must go and have another look at the original. >=20 This painting, The Guitar Player, in the Iveagh Bequest in Kenwood House, in= =20 Hampstead Heath, is the finest preserved Vermeer in existence.=A0 For one th= ing,=20 it is not even lined (that is, it does not have a typical later-added canvas= =20 adhered to the back of the original one) and the detail and paint textures a= re=20 perfectly preserved on this painting.=A0 The original wooden strainer to whi= ch=20 the painting is attached is, in fact, even the one the artist used.=A0 For t= hese=20 reasons, the painting is very fragile and therefore not even lent out to=20 exhibitions. I have seen The Music Lesson (Buckingham Palace) up close and, although=20 lined, it is also in superb condition.=A0=20 The guitar in the painting, by the way, was probably after one from the=20 Voboam firm in Paris.=A0=20 Interestingly, the woman has her right hand in a position as if plucking a=20 cittern with a plectrum, so it is possible that Vermeer simply borrowed the=20= hand=20 position from that or else posed the model in that way.=A0 Certainly, he had= =20 done such depictions earlier (such as in The Letter, in the Rijksmuseum,=20 Amsterdam). Two of the most damaged Vermeers are: The Lute Player, Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York. Girl Interrupted at her Music Lesson, The Frick Collection, New York. (both are badly abraded from overcleaning) Kenneth Be Cleveland, Ohio --
FW: Girl with the Pearl Earing
With reference to the film Girl with a Pearl Earing, it appears to be on cinema-release in the UK on 16th January. Try this site for more info: http://www.thezreview.co.uk/comingsoon/g/girlwithapearlearring.shtm [Ron Fletcher] Best Wishes
Re: Girl with the Pearl Earing
It looks to me like she's hanging onto the guitar with her left hand. And I= =20 think anyone dressed in that outfit would have had to keep track of the=20 guitar with both hands. The skirt looks like satin or silk and then there's= =20 the fur - both really slippery. You can see that she has the back edge of= =20 the body down on her leg as another attempt to keep track of the guitar. Nancy Carlin >It looks pretty realistic to me. > > > > The pistagne looks as if it was a whool twisted strand: I can't imagine > > the > > way you would realise this in wood. > >My guitarron (Mexican bass guitar) has a very similar border made from >alternating pieces of different colored wood. > > > > Certainly the rosette looks rather odd - but this may be something to= do > > with the state of the painting. > >Can't tell from the online image. Looks like the rosette might be a >picture rather than an abstract design, but that's certainly believable. > > > What I have always thought is rather strange is the way she is holding= the > > instrument- especially the position of the left hand. It is almost as= if > > she was using the thumb to stop the lower courses. > >I've seen an awful lot of modern untrained guitar players hold their left >hands just like that - it's a natural comfortable position. Also common >with thinner necked instruments like a violin - or a 4-course guitar. > > >The right hand looks > > as > > if she is playing "thumb inside" which is not a very convenient position > > for > > strumming chords. > > >Looks like thumb-in to me. With her little finger anchored to the sound >board, I doubt she's strumming. I've heard a lot about renaissance guitar >players strumming, but all the written music I've seen was obviously >intended to be plucked like a lute. > >-- >Rough-edged songs from a dark place in the soul: >http://DoctorOakroot.com Nancy Carlin Associates P.O. Box 6499 Concord, CA 94524 USA phone 925/686-5800 fax 925/680-2582 web site - www.nancycarlinassociates.com Representing: FROM WALES - Robin Huw Bowen, Crasdant, Telyneg with Robin Huw Bowen, Eiry= =20 Palfrey & Heather Jones, Sian James, Neil & Meg Browning & Carreg Lafar,=20 FROM ENGLAND - The City Waites, Jez Lowe, & Jez Lowe & The Bad=20 Pennies FROM FRANCE - Gabriel Yacoub, FROM DENMARK - Ph=F8nix Administrator THE LUTE SOCIETY OF AMERICA web site - http://LuteSocietyofAmerica.org --
Re: Girl with the Pearl Earing
It looks pretty realistic to me. > The pistagne looks as if it was a whool twisted strand: I can't imagine > the > way you would realise this in wood. My guitarron (Mexican bass guitar) has a very similar border made from alternating pieces of different colored wood. > > Certainly the rosette looks rather odd - but this may be something to do > with the state of the painting. Can't tell from the online image. Looks like the rosette might be a picture rather than an abstract design, but that's certainly believable. > What I have always thought is rather strange is the way she is holding the > instrument- especially the position of the left hand. It is almost as if > she was using the thumb to stop the lower courses. I've seen an awful lot of modern untrained guitar players hold their left hands just like that - it's a natural comfortable position. Also common with thinner necked instruments like a violin - or a 4-course guitar. >The right hand looks > as > if she is playing "thumb inside" which is not a very convenient position > for > strumming chords. > Looks like thumb-in to me. With her little finger anchored to the sound board, I doubt she's strumming. I've heard a lot about renaissance guitar players strumming, but all the written music I've seen was obviously intended to be plucked like a lute. -- Rough-edged songs from a dark place in the soul: http://DoctorOakroot.com
RE: Girl with the Pearl Earing
Here is a good image on the internet: http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/vermeer/i/guitar-player.jpg Could she be using a pick?? -Original Message- From: Monica Hall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 9:58 AM To: Philippe Mottet Cc: lutenet Subject: Re: Girl with the Pearl Earing Certainly the rosette looks rather odd - but this may be something to do with the state of the painting. I seem to recall that many of his paintings survive in a poor state or have been badly restored because they were all sold off on his death. I must go and have another look at the original. What I have always thought is rather strange is the way she is holding the instrument- especially the position of the left hand. It is almost as if she was using the thumb to stop the lower courses. The right hand looks as if she is playing "thumb inside" which is not a very convenient position for strumming chords. Cheers Monica >
Re: Girl with the Pearl Earing
> Monica, If you consider the exact (hyperrealist) way that Vermeer paints a harpsichord or a cittern, don't you feel this baroque guitar as a very strange model? The "plantilla", the details of decoration (especially the rosette and the pistagne, the black and white border motiv) makes me feel that if Vermeer had an harpsichord in front of him in his studio when painting, he didn't have this guitar under the eyes. Painted from memory ? The pistagne looks as if it was a whool twisted strand: I can't imagine the way you would realise this in wood. Certainly the rosette looks rather odd - but this may be something to do with the state of the painting. I seem to recall that many of his paintings survive in a poor state or have been badly restored because they were all sold off on his death. I must go and have another look at the original. What I have always thought is rather strange is the way she is holding the instrument- especially the position of the left hand. It is almost as if she was using the thumb to stop the lower courses. The right hand looks as if she is playing "thumb inside" which is not a very convenient position for strumming chords. Cheers Monica > > - Original Message - > From: James A Stimson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Patrick H <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: Lute List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 11:06 PM > Subject: Re: Girl with the Pearl Earing > > >> >> >> >> >> Dear Patrick and All: >> Even more interesting would be whether the film features a cittern. Such >> an instrument (apparently the same instrument, a tenor with a striped > back) >> is featured in no fewer than five of Vermeer's paintings. >> Yours, >> Jim >> >> >> >> |-+> >> | | Patrick H| >> | | <[EMAIL PROTECTED]| >> | | com> | >> | || >> | | 01/05/2004 12:30 | >> | | PM | >> | || >> |-+> >> >> --------- -- > ---| >> | > | >> | To: Lute List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > | >> | cc: > | >> | Subject: Girl with the Pearl Earing > | >> >> - -- > ---| >> >> >> >> >> I had a chance to see a preview of the Johannes Vermeer movie, Girl with a >> Pearl Earing, several weeks ago, but due to a bad storm I missed it. I >> have since seen the preview, and there are scenes of Vermeer with his >> models painting. I was wondering if anyone had seen the movie yet, and >> whether any lutes were featured? Either on the soundtrack or being > played >> by the models. >> >> >> - >> Do you Yahoo!? >> Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003 >> -- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >
Re: Girl with the Pearl Earing
One reviewer I heard on the radio said so little was known about the artist and his model that everything except the actual paintings was a wild guess. (I haven't seen the movie yet). Monica Hall wrote: > And the baroque guitar - featured in one of his most famous painting which > I > regular pay hommage to at Kenwood House in North London. The question is > - > were these models actually playing the instruments are are they just > props. > The lady playing the guitar is wearing the yellow jacket bordered with > ermine featured in several other paintings too. > > If the film is anything like most "historical" movies everything except > the > music will be authentic. > > > Monica > > > > - Original Message - > From: James A Stimson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Patrick H <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: Lute List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 11:06 PM > Subject: Re: Girl with the Pearl Earing > > >> >> >> >> >> Dear Patrick and All: >> Even more interesting would be whether the film features a cittern. >> Such >> an instrument (apparently the same instrument, a tenor with a striped > back) >> is featured in no fewer than five of Vermeer's paintings. >> Yours, >> Jim >> >> >> >> |-+> >> | | Patrick H| >> | | <[EMAIL PROTECTED]| >> | | com> | >> | || >> | | 01/05/2004 12:30 | >> | | PM | >> | || >> |-+--------> >> >>--- > ---| >> | > | >> | To: Lute List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > | >> | cc: > | >> | Subject: Girl with the Pearl Earing >| >> >>--- > ---| >> >> >> >> >> I had a chance to see a preview of the Johannes Vermeer movie, Girl with >> a >> Pearl Earing, several weeks ago, but due to a bad storm I missed it. I >> have since seen the preview, and there are scenes of Vermeer with his >> models painting. I was wondering if anyone had seen the movie yet, and >> whether any lutes were featured? Either on the soundtrack or being > played >> by the models. >> >> >> - >> Do you Yahoo!? >> Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003 >> -- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- Rough-edged songs from a dark place in the soul: http://DoctorOakroot.com
Re: Girl with the Pearl Earing
I saw the film in early December where I work at the Cleveland Museum of Art. Our film program director somehow managed to negotiate a screening prior to its public release. Simply stated, the movie is visually and cinematographically one of the most stunning I have ever seen. The subtle, natural lighting, the compositions, the authentic settings and costumes and the very fine acting do great justice to the quiet, delicate art of Johannes Vermeer. Several of the outdoor scenes are filmed in Delft. For a lutenist, the movie gives a great impression of Holland in the 17th Century. Alas, there is little actual 17th C. music, except for a scene where one of Vermeer's patron's plays on a genuine harpsichord (Lachrimae tune - perhaps Sweelinck?). There is no lute or cittern music (too bad, considering especially that the cittern is the most frequently depicted instrument by the artist). However, in one scene there is a renaissance lute propped on a chair which quickly caught my eye. This being said, however, I found the rather minimal synthesized contemporary music which sounds throughout the film at choice moments to be VERY appropriate and fine! At all other times, the film uses no score and instead relies on the everyday types of sounds that would be heard in a crowded household in Delft in those years (children, domestic noises, dogs barking, bird calls). I recommend this movie very highly to all to see soon! Kenneth Be Cleveland, Ohio --
Re: Girl with the Pearl Earing
Am 6 Jan 2004 um 10:03 hat Monica Hall geschrieben: > If the film is anything like most "historical" movies everything > except the music will be authentic. How true... Regards, Stephan
Re: Girl with the Pearl Earing
And the baroque guitar - featured in one of his most famous painting which I regular pay hommage to at Kenwood House in North London. The question is - were these models actually playing the instruments are are they just props. The lady playing the guitar is wearing the yellow jacket bordered with ermine featured in several other paintings too. If the film is anything like most "historical" movies everything except the music will be authentic. Monica - Original Message - From: James A Stimson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Patrick H <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Lute List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 11:06 PM Subject: Re: Girl with the Pearl Earing > > > > > Dear Patrick and All: > Even more interesting would be whether the film features a cittern. Such > an instrument (apparently the same instrument, a tenor with a striped back) > is featured in no fewer than five of Vermeer's paintings. > Yours, > Jim > > > > |-+> > | | Patrick H| > | | <[EMAIL PROTECTED]| > | | com> | > | || > | | 01/05/2004 12:30 | > | | PM | > | || > |-+> > >--- -------| > | | > | To: Lute List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | > | cc: | > | Subject: Girl with the Pearl Earing | > >--- ---| > > > > > I had a chance to see a preview of the Johannes Vermeer movie, Girl with a > Pearl Earing, several weeks ago, but due to a bad storm I missed it. I > have since seen the preview, and there are scenes of Vermeer with his > models painting. I was wondering if anyone had seen the movie yet, and > whether any lutes were featured? Either on the soundtrack or being played > by the models. > > > - > Do you Yahoo!? > Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003 > -- > > > > > > > >
Re: Girl with the Pearl Earing
Dear Patrick and All: Even more interesting would be whether the film features a cittern. Such an instrument (apparently the same instrument, a tenor with a striped back) is featured in no fewer than five of Vermeer's paintings. Yours, Jim |-+> | | Patrick H| | | <[EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | com> | | || | | 01/05/2004 12:30 | | | PM | | || |-+> >--| | | | To: Lute List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | | cc: | | Subject: Girl with the Pearl Earing | >--| I had a chance to see a preview of the Johannes Vermeer movie, Girl with a Pearl Earing, several weeks ago, but due to a bad storm I missed it. I have since seen the preview, and there are scenes of Vermeer with his models painting. I was wondering if anyone had seen the movie yet, and whether any lutes were featured? Either on the soundtrack or being played by the models. - Do you Yahoo!? Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003 --
Girl with the Pearl Earing
I had a chance to see a preview of the Johannes Vermeer movie, Girl with a Pearl Earing, several weeks ago, but due to a bad storm I missed it. I have since seen the preview, and there are scenes of Vermeer with his models painting. I was wondering if anyone had seen the movie yet, and whether any lutes were featured? Either on the soundtrack or being played by the models. - Do you Yahoo!? Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003 --
