[LUTE] Re: Strap buttons - Was: contributions to this list
Most lutenists use a strap and I'm sure that you will get many responses/suggestions etc. We may even have a return to the discussion of using tables to support the lute and amplify the sound :-) Regards Neil -Original Message- From: Greg Fleming [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04 February 2008 15:04 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Strap buttons - Was: contributions to this list Rob wrote: > I would like to read/hear more from beginners... > > So I call on all those lurkers who are even too shy to contribute > emails, let us know what you are up to, ask questions. I have many > questions of my own - the subject is too large for one person to know > everything. > Ok, I'll bite. I bought my first lute a few months ago, a used 7c by John Underwood. (I'm not at home at the moment, so I might have that name wrong...) I'm finding that my initial difficulty in finding a comfortable position to hold the instrument has decreased, but not gone away completely, so I'm thinking about having strap buttons added and playing with a strap. In thinking about this, I have spent some time on the internet trying to find out whether there is any evidence of strap buttons on 16th or early 17th century lutes, and I'm coming up empty. I haven't been able to find any discussion of the subject at all, let alone a conclusion one way or the other. Either I just don't know the right terms to search with, or, more likely, it's such common knowledge that no one has bothered to write it down anywhere that google knows about. At this point, I've more or less decided to have strap buttons added regardless of authenticity, but my curiosity remains unsatisfied. Can anyone here shed some light on the subject? thanks, Greg Fleming To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Strap buttons - Was: contributions to this list
Rob wrote: I would like to read/hear more from beginners... So I call on all those lurkers who are even too shy to contribute emails, let us know what you are up to, ask questions. I have many questions of my own - the subject is too large for one person to know everything. Ok, I'll bite. I bought my first lute a few months ago, a used 7c by John Underwood. (I'm not at home at the moment, so I might have that name wrong...) I'm finding that my initial difficulty in finding a comfortable position to hold the instrument has decreased, but not gone away completely, so I'm thinking about having strap buttons added and playing with a strap. In thinking about this, I have spent some time on the internet trying to find out whether there is any evidence of strap buttons on 16th or early 17th century lutes, and I'm coming up empty. I haven't been able to find any discussion of the subject at all, let alone a conclusion one way or the other. Either I just don't know the right terms to search with, or, more likely, it's such common knowledge that no one has bothered to write it down anywhere that google knows about. At this point, I've more or less decided to have strap buttons added regardless of authenticity, but my curiosity remains unsatisfied. Can anyone here shed some light on the subject? thanks, Greg Fleming To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Strap Buttons
Jon, I've gotten truly obsessive and use both kinds of straps, mainly to reinforce the correct angle of the instrument. The neck strap balances the instrument and keeps the neck at the right angle (up and down), the short strap (the butt strap?) keeps the instrument angled fore-and-aft so that my left hand reaches for the neck at the correct angle. I can see that eventually I might do away with one or the other of these, but right now it's helpful. I've tried using only the short strap, but found it uncomfortable. The neck seemed to wander around without the strap on the peg box. What do people use for straps? I make mine out of heavy ribbon sewn to pieces of leather at either end; sort of like lightweight guitar straps. I don't think the leather is necessary for strength, but the ribbon would start to unravel if I put buttonholes in it. Tim On Sunday, April 10, 2005, at 01:47 AM, Jon Murphy wrote: > Dana says it well, there are many old pictures of lutenists with > straps, but > I'd be careful to ensure the bridge end of the body can handle it. > This is > gratuitous, I admit, but there is another purpose. I've been playing my > "flat back", which is a thicker body, with a strap for some time - in > my one > lesson the teacher did so, and had the neck end tied in his peg block. > Then > I went back to working from the beginning of my copy of Damiano's > "Method > for the Renaissance Lute" and noted that he suggested attaching a > strip of > leather to the butt end of the lute and passing it under one's own > butt. > > I tried it, took the guitar strap I was using and shortened it (no, I > didn't > destroy it, just used the slide buckle to minimize it). Wow, a > revelation. > by holding the butt end of the lute down to my thigh (with a bit of > chamois > cloth from an auto parts store to provide friction) I got a much better > balance of the instrument and a freer left hand. > > So this doesn't speak to strap buttons, but it does speak to straps. > > Best, Jon > > - > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
Re: Strap Buttons
Dana says it well, there are many old pictures of lutenists with straps, but I'd be careful to ensure the bridge end of the body can handle it. This is gratuitous, I admit, but there is another purpose. I've been playing my "flat back", which is a thicker body, with a strap for some time - in my one lesson the teacher did so, and had the neck end tied in his peg block. Then I went back to working from the beginning of my copy of Damiano's "Method for the Renaissance Lute" and noted that he suggested attaching a strip of leather to the butt end of the lute and passing it under one's own butt. I tried it, took the guitar strap I was using and shortened it (no, I didn't destroy it, just used the slide buckle to minimize it). Wow, a revelation. by holding the butt end of the lute down to my thigh (with a bit of chamois cloth from an auto parts store to provide friction) I got a much better balance of the instrument and a freer left hand. So this doesn't speak to strap buttons, but it does speak to straps. Best, Jon - To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Antwort: Re: Strap Buttons
Ed Durbrow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > references to blind lutenists who must have played from memory. One wonders how many of them were blind as one commonly thinks of that; greatly myopic, or otherwise sight-compromised. A good freind of mine is so nearsighted that he cant see an entire lines width, but has to scan it word by word. He would be able to read music, to learn a new piece, but could never be a sight-player; all his play would have to be from memory. After the vast improvements made in Literacy facilitated by the advent of printing the picture changes, but before printed works had widespread utilizatino (and of course before they existed at all) it was commonplace for musical literacy to be uncommon, many highly respected but musically illiterate musicians earned excellent salaries playing from memory. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Antwort: Re: Strap Buttons
Thomas wrote: >The idea of playing from memory is a development of the romantic period This is very true, but it doesn't mean that it is exclusive to the romantic period. In descriptions of masques there were places where 12 lutenists popped out of trees and played or other such spectacles. I can't believe they didn't play from memory in such a performance setting. In D.W. Smith's History of the Lute there are several references to blind lutenists who must have played from memory. cheers, -- Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Antwort: Re: Strap Buttons
Oh - and that's why they copied the music into manuscripts?
Fantasias, passacalias and some others were improvised and seldom notated
but I would have several sources telling that they played from scores, even
their own music (take a look at Marpurg for example).
The idea of playing from memory is a development of the romantic period
when the performer and his virtuosity got more importance than the music
itself (just as example may deal Paganini whose compositions are mediocre
but were presented in what must have been a great show: sawing of a string
to show how great he is to be able to play a piece even with a broken
string etc. .. btw: the piece was written that it could be easily played
without that string. In the romantic period a "show-aspect" came into music
performance )
Thomas
"Dr. Marion Ceruti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> am 05.04.2005 13:52:16
Bitte antworten an "Dr. Marion Ceruti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
An:Michael Thames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Ramon Marco de Sevilla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Kopie:
Thema: Re: Strap Buttons
-Original Message-
From: Michael Thames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Apr 4, 2005 6:48 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Dr. Marion Ceruti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Ramon Marco de Sevilla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: Re: Strap Buttons
Michael,
> Regarding Williams's memorization act: how many
>instruments and tunings does he perform on on a
>regular basis? (Koyunbaba doesn't count.)
>Chris
Well this is really the most beautiful part of a John Williams
concert, or for that matter any concert, isn't it. His ability to perform
flawlessly from memory where everything is perfected to the T. A rare
event.
++I have always enjoyed John Williams.
From my own experience I have no problem going back and forth to
different
instruments and playing from memory. I've heard others do though.
++It all goes back to the different ways people memorize music. If you
memorize
how it sounds you can go back and forth between many different instuments,
just as long as you practice them often enough to remember how to make each
sound. If you memorzie music by thinking of only the physical configuration
of
your hands, you will have trouble with the changing from one tuning to
another.
This whole idea of playing from sheet music is fine, but I believe a
total fabrication of the 20 th century lutenist's.
I keep hearing the reason for this is grounded in the fact that thesedays
everyone plays 15 different instruments.
++I do not buy this argument, but then again I memorize music with
less difficulty than many others.
In the past this was not a problem was it? wWere does one find a
tradition
of this?
As I said before it seems that more historical methods suggest
memorization.
++Sheet music is fine for people who either can't or don't want to
memorize.
In the past, paper and even parchment were not as readily available and
cost
more to produce. Those on the border line between reading and memorizing
chose to save money by memorizing music. It is much more fun to play
that way, assuming that you can.
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Dr. Marion Ceruti"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Ramon Marco de Sevilla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: Strap Buttons
> Michael,
>
>
> Regarding Williams's memorization act: how many
> instruments and tunings does he perform on on a
> regular basis? (Koyunbaba doesn't count.)
>
>
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
> --- Michael Thames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I heard that some people use a silk ribbon tied to
> > the pegbox. and simply
> > sit on the other end
> > Michael Thames
> > www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Dr. Marion Ceruti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Ramon Marco de Sevilla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
> >
> > Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 2:19 PM
> > Subject: Re: Strap Buttons
> >
> >
> > > Rob,
> > >
> > > So far, I have not heard of a strap button pulling
> > out of a lute.
> > > However, I have heard of a strap button damaging a
> > guitar
> > > that was checked into the airlines. It was not
> > packed correctly
> > > and the luggage handliers set it down hard on the
> > button end.
> > > The button shifted into the instrument and cracks
> > developed.
> > > Other than that story I have not heard any
> > di
Re: Strap Buttons
Ramon Marco de Sevilla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > Are lutes built strongly enough to handle strap buttons? yes, but... make sure you have the work done by someone with experience; the neck end of the lute has a small block inside that anchors the ends of all the ribs and provides an excellent point of attachment for that end of the strap; the other end of the lute can be as thin as three layers of rib-thickness wood; typically 3-4mm thick in all. Historical lutes are depicted in some paintings with a 'strap' of gut run between two buttons. A hook or a button on the clothing of the player engages this loop. MOdern players have tried this with some success, and have also used both banjo- style or guitar-style straps. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Strap Buttons
>> In my neck o' the woods beautiful music is important, and >NOT whether it > is >> done from memory or otherwise. >> RT > And I assume you've perfected both aspects of this art, and are > highly qualified to let loose with your undigested cheese, Herr Genius. 1. I make no claim to such an exalted state for myself in music. 2. I have no intolerance to lactose, only to JWelveeta. RT > Regarding Williams's memorization act: how many instruments and tunings does he perform on on a regular basis? (Koyunbaba doesn't count.) Chris >>> Well this is really the most beautiful part of a John Williams >>> concert, or for that matter any concert, isn't it. His ability to > perform >>> flawlessly from memory where everything is perfected to the T. A rare > event. >> In my neck o' the woods beautiful music is important, and NOT whether it > is >> done from memory or otherwise. >> RT >> >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> > >
Re: Strap Buttons
>In my neck o' the woods beautiful music is important, and >NOT whether it is >done from memory or otherwise. >RT And I assume you've perfected both aspects of this art, and are highly qualified to let loose with your undigested cheese, Herr Genius. Michael Thames www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com - Original Message - From: "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Dr. Marion Ceruti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Ramon Marco de Sevilla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 8:34 AM Subject: Re: Strap Buttons > >> Regarding Williams's memorization act: how many > >> instruments and tunings does he perform on on a > >> regular basis? (Koyunbaba doesn't count.) > >> Chris > > Well this is really the most beautiful part of a John Williams > > concert, or for that matter any concert, isn't it. His ability to perform > > flawlessly from memory where everything is perfected to the T. A rare event. > In my neck o' the woods beautiful music is important, and NOT whether it is > done from memory or otherwise. > RT > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
Re: Strap Buttons
>> Regarding Williams's memorization act: how many >> instruments and tunings does he perform on on a >> regular basis? (Koyunbaba doesn't count.) >> Chris > Well this is really the most beautiful part of a John Williams > concert, or for that matter any concert, isn't it. His ability to perform > flawlessly from memory where everything is perfected to the T. A rare event. In my neck o' the woods beautiful music is important, and NOT whether it is done from memory or otherwise. RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Strap Buttons
> (by the addition of sweaters in colder months, of course). > > ++Move to California or Hawaii. We don't do winter. :) Hence the Bandar-Logi approach to lute-playing, obviously. RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Strap Buttons
-Original Message- From: Howard Posner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Apr 4, 2005 5:12 PM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: Re: Strap Buttons Dr. Marion Ceruti wrote: > So far, I have not heard of a strap button pulling out of a lute. It happens all the time, since they're typically put in like tuning pegs, held by friction. This has nothing to do with the strength of the instrument, of course. ++Maybe this is one reason why some people sit on the other end of the strap or silk, attaching the strap to the peg end only. I don't use a strap on a lute so I have not bothered to find out what happens when you pull on the strap button. (Famous last words: What does this button do?) In case anyone reading this is not aware of it, this was a joke. > I see no disadvantage with the very slight added weight > My 11-string guitar has 11 metal tuning machines and I have > no trouble holding it for long periods of time. If the rest of your 11-string guitar were as light as a lute, you might have a problem with balance. ++See a later posting about balancing the weight by a new design in which half of the tuners are at one end and the other half are at the opposite end. It depends on what kind of problem you want. All tuning systems have their advantages and their disadvantages. I would rather have the tuning machines and find another way to solve the problem with weight distribution than to spend an inordinate amount of time tuning. The tuning challenge is worse for short string lengths than with the longer strings for obvious physical reasons. > As for bowed strings, I don't know about your violins, > but mine have small machine tuners at the loop end of > the strings. Fine tuners are common on student violins. ++I have two violins, both with fine tuners. One of them is not worth a huge amount of money and I suppose you could call it a student violin. The second one is a fine concert instrument made in 1836. I would not go out and buy one like this and would not have it except that it has been in my family for generations. I have received offers to buy it from violinists who have not even seen it. It is not exactly what you would give a student to play. The bow alone is worth more than some lutes. H To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Strap Buttons
-Original Message- From: Bob Purrenhage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Apr 4, 2005 8:47 PM To: Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: Re: Strap Buttons Modest person that I am, I only managed to send this to one person the first time rather than the whole list: I think one of the chief advantages of a strap is the ability to play while standing or sitting on almost any seat with the same consistent posture - no need to cross legs or hunch over the instrument. ++If you have evern gotten up after a long practic session and found that one of your legs does not work the way it should you will appreciate this aspect of posture. Wide fabric ribbons or bands work well. You can put a series of button holes in the ends to allow adjustment as your girth increases ++This also works if you want to use the same strap with different-sized instruments. (by the addition of sweaters in colder months, of course). ++Move to California or Hawaii. We don't do winter. :) Bob Purrenhage Dr. Marion Ceruti wrote: Michael Thames wrote: >Michael, > > > > >>Regarding Williams's memorization act: how many >>instruments and tunings does he perform on on a >>regular basis? (Koyunbaba doesn't count.) >> >> > > > > > >>Chris >> >> > >Well this is really the most beautiful part of a John Williams >concert, or for that matter any concert, isn't it. His ability to perform >flawlessly from memory where everything is perfected to the T. A rare event. > From my own experience I have no problem going back and forth to different >instruments and playing from memory. I've heard others do though. > This whole idea of playing from sheet music is fine, but I believe a >total fabrication of the 20 th century lutenist's. > I keep hearing the reason for this is grounded in the fact that thesedays >everyone plays 15 different instruments. > In the past this was not a problem was it? wWere does one find a tradition >of this? >As I said before it seems that more historical methods suggest >memorization. > >Michael Thames >www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com >- Original Message - >From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Dr. Marion Ceruti" ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Ramon Marco de Sevilla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > >Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 3:18 PM >Subject: Re: Strap Buttons > > > > >>Michael, >> >> >> Regarding Williams's memorization act: how many >>instruments and tunings does he perform on on a >>regular basis? (Koyunbaba doesn't count.) >> >> >> >>Chris >> >> >> >> >>--- Michael Thames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> >>>I heard that some people use a silk ribbon tied to >>>the pegbox. and simply >>>sit on the other end >>>Michael Thames >>>www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com >>>- Original Message - >>>From: "Dr. Marion Ceruti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>To: "Ramon Marco de Sevilla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; >>> >>>Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 2:19 PM >>>Subject: Re: Strap Buttons >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Rob, >>>> >>>>So far, I have not heard of a strap button pulling >>>> >>>> >>>out of a lute. >>> >>> >>>>However, I have heard of a strap button damaging a >>>> >>>> >>>guitar >>> >>> >>>>that was checked into the airlines. It was not >>>> >>>> >>>packed correctly >>> >>> >>>>and the luggage handliers set it down hard on the >>>> >>>> >>>button end. >>> >>> >>>>The button shifted into the instrument and cracks >>>> >>>> >>>developed. >>> >>> >>>>Other than that story I have not heard any >>>> >>>> >>>disadvantages >>> >>> >>>>of a strap button, only advantages. >>>> >>>>Best, >>>>Marion >>>> >>>>-Original Message- >>>>From: Ramon Marco de Sevilla >>>> >>>> >>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> >>> >>>>Sent: Apr 4, 2005 12:50 PM >>>>To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu >>>>Subject: Strap Buttons >>>> >>>>Are lutes built strongly enough to handle strap >>>> >>>> >>>buttons? >>> >>> >>>>I have a hard time keeping my lute stable on my >>>> >>>> >>>lap and am thinking a >>> >>> >>>>strap may help (or velcro!). >>>> >>>>Thanks! >>>>Rob >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>To get on or off this list see list information at >>>> >>>> >>>> >>http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> >> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>__ >>Do you Yahoo!? >>Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! >>http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ >> >> >> > > > > > > --
Re: Strap Buttons
-Original Message- From: Michael Thames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Apr 4, 2005 6:48 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Dr. Marion Ceruti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ramon Marco de Sevilla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: Re: Strap Buttons Michael, > Regarding Williams's memorization act: how many >instruments and tunings does he perform on on a >regular basis? (Koyunbaba doesn't count.) >Chris Well this is really the most beautiful part of a John Williams concert, or for that matter any concert, isn't it. His ability to perform flawlessly from memory where everything is perfected to the T. A rare event. ++I have always enjoyed John Williams. From my own experience I have no problem going back and forth to different instruments and playing from memory. I've heard others do though. ++It all goes back to the different ways people memorize music. If you memorize how it sounds you can go back and forth between many different instuments, just as long as you practice them often enough to remember how to make each sound. If you memorzie music by thinking of only the physical configuration of your hands, you will have trouble with the changing from one tuning to another. This whole idea of playing from sheet music is fine, but I believe a total fabrication of the 20 th century lutenist's. I keep hearing the reason for this is grounded in the fact that thesedays everyone plays 15 different instruments. ++I do not buy this argument, but then again I memorize music with less difficulty than many others. In the past this was not a problem was it? wWere does one find a tradition of this? As I said before it seems that more historical methods suggest memorization. ++Sheet music is fine for people who either can't or don't want to memorize. In the past, paper and even parchment were not as readily available and cost more to produce. Those on the border line between reading and memorizing chose to save money by memorizing music. It is much more fun to play that way, assuming that you can. Michael Thames www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Dr. Marion Ceruti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Ramon Marco de Sevilla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 3:18 PM Subject: Re: Strap Buttons > Michael, > > > Regarding Williams's memorization act: how many > instruments and tunings does he perform on on a > regular basis? (Koyunbaba doesn't count.) > > > > Chris > > > > > --- Michael Thames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I heard that some people use a silk ribbon tied to > > the pegbox. and simply > > sit on the other end > > Michael Thames > > www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com > > - Original Message - > > From: "Dr. Marion Ceruti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Ramon Marco de Sevilla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > > > Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 2:19 PM > > Subject: Re: Strap Buttons > > > > > > > Rob, > > > > > > So far, I have not heard of a strap button pulling > > out of a lute. > > > However, I have heard of a strap button damaging a > > guitar > > > that was checked into the airlines. It was not > > packed correctly > > > and the luggage handliers set it down hard on the > > button end. > > > The button shifted into the instrument and cracks > > developed. > > > Other than that story I have not heard any > > disadvantages > > > of a strap button, only advantages. > > > > > > Best, > > > Marion > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Ramon Marco de Sevilla > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Apr 4, 2005 12:50 PM > > > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > > > Subject: Strap Buttons > > > > > > Are lutes built strongly enough to handle strap > > buttons? > > > > > > I have a hard time keeping my lute stable on my > > lap and am thinking a > > > strap may help (or velcro!). > > > > > > Thanks! > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > > > > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ >
Re: Strap Buttons
On Tuesday 05 April 2005 00:12, Michael Thames wrote: > I heard that some people use a silk ribbon tied to the pegbox. and > simply sit on the other end I use this system with my 10-course lute and (quite short) archlute - the material of the strap is leather. Works well! Leaves your hands free. Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Strap Buttons
Modest person that I am, I only managed to send this to one person the first time rather than the whole list: I think one of the chief advantages of a strap is the ability to play while standing or sitting on almost any seat with the same consistent posture - no need to cross legs or hunch over the instrument. Wide fabric ribbons or bands work well. You can put a series of button holes in the ends to allow adjustment as your girth increases (by the addition of sweaters in colder months, of course). Bob Purrenhage Dr. Marion Ceruti wrote: Michael Thames wrote: >Michael, > > > > >>Regarding Williams's memorization act: how many >>instruments and tunings does he perform on on a >>regular basis? (Koyunbaba doesn't count.) >> >> > > > > > >>Chris >> >> > >Well this is really the most beautiful part of a John Williams >concert, or for that matter any concert, isn't it. His ability to perform >flawlessly from memory where everything is perfected to the T. A rare event. > From my own experience I have no problem going back and forth to different >instruments and playing from memory. I've heard others do though. > This whole idea of playing from sheet music is fine, but I believe a >total fabrication of the 20 th century lutenist's. > I keep hearing the reason for this is grounded in the fact that thesedays >everyone plays 15 different instruments. > In the past this was not a problem was it? wWere does one find a tradition >of this? >As I said before it seems that more historical methods suggest >memorization. > >Michael Thames >www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com >- Original Message - >From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Dr. Marion Ceruti" ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Ramon Marco de Sevilla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > >Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 3:18 PM >Subject: Re: Strap Buttons > > > > >>Michael, >> >> >> Regarding Williams's memorization act: how many >>instruments and tunings does he perform on on a >>regular basis? (Koyunbaba doesn't count.) >> >> >> >>Chris >> >> >> >> >>--- Michael Thames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> >>>I heard that some people use a silk ribbon tied to >>>the pegbox. and simply >>>sit on the other end >>>Michael Thames >>>www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com >>>- Original Message - >>>From: "Dr. Marion Ceruti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>To: "Ramon Marco de Sevilla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; >>> >>>Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 2:19 PM >>>Subject: Re: Strap Buttons >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Rob, >>>> >>>>So far, I have not heard of a strap button pulling >>>> >>>> >>>out of a lute. >>> >>> >>>>However, I have heard of a strap button damaging a >>>> >>>> >>>guitar >>> >>> >>>>that was checked into the airlines. It was not >>>> >>>> >>>packed correctly >>> >>> >>>>and the luggage handliers set it down hard on the >>>> >>>> >>>button end. >>> >>> >>>>The button shifted into the instrument and cracks >>>> >>>> >>>developed. >>> >>> >>>>Other than that story I have not heard any >>>> >>>> >>>disadvantages >>> >>> >>>>of a strap button, only advantages. >>>> >>>>Best, >>>>Marion >>>> >>>>-Original Message- >>>>From: Ramon Marco de Sevilla >>>> >>>> >>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> >>> >>>>Sent: Apr 4, 2005 12:50 PM >>>>To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu >>>>Subject: Strap Buttons >>>> >>>>Are lutes built strongly enough to handle strap >>>> >>>> >>>buttons? >>> >>> >>>>I have a hard time keeping my lute stable on my >>>> >>>> >>>lap and am thinking a >>> >>> >>>>strap may help (or velcro!). >>>> >>>>Thanks! >>>>Rob >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>To get on or off this list see list information at >>>> >>>> >>>> >>http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> >> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>__ >>Do you Yahoo!? >>Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! >>http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ >> >> >> > > > > > > --
Re: Strap Buttons
Michael, > Regarding Williams's memorization act: how many >instruments and tunings does he perform on on a >regular basis? (Koyunbaba doesn't count.) >Chris Well this is really the most beautiful part of a John Williams concert, or for that matter any concert, isn't it. His ability to perform flawlessly from memory where everything is perfected to the T. A rare event. From my own experience I have no problem going back and forth to different instruments and playing from memory. I've heard others do though. This whole idea of playing from sheet music is fine, but I believe a total fabrication of the 20 th century lutenist's. I keep hearing the reason for this is grounded in the fact that thesedays everyone plays 15 different instruments. In the past this was not a problem was it? wWere does one find a tradition of this? As I said before it seems that more historical methods suggest memorization. Michael Thames www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Dr. Marion Ceruti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Ramon Marco de Sevilla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 3:18 PM Subject: Re: Strap Buttons > Michael, > > > Regarding Williams's memorization act: how many > instruments and tunings does he perform on on a > regular basis? (Koyunbaba doesn't count.) > > > > Chris > > > > > --- Michael Thames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I heard that some people use a silk ribbon tied to > > the pegbox. and simply > > sit on the other end > > Michael Thames > > www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com > > - Original Message - > > From: "Dr. Marion Ceruti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Ramon Marco de Sevilla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > > > Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 2:19 PM > > Subject: Re: Strap Buttons > > > > > > > Rob, > > > > > > So far, I have not heard of a strap button pulling > > out of a lute. > > > However, I have heard of a strap button damaging a > > guitar > > > that was checked into the airlines. It was not > > packed correctly > > > and the luggage handliers set it down hard on the > > button end. > > > The button shifted into the instrument and cracks > > developed. > > > Other than that story I have not heard any > > disadvantages > > > of a strap button, only advantages. > > > > > > Best, > > > Marion > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Ramon Marco de Sevilla > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Apr 4, 2005 12:50 PM > > > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > > > Subject: Strap Buttons > > > > > > Are lutes built strongly enough to handle strap > > buttons? > > > > > > I have a hard time keeping my lute stable on my > > lap and am thinking a > > > strap may help (or velcro!). > > > > > > Thanks! > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > > > > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ >
Re: Strap Buttons
- Original Message - From: Michael Thames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Monday, April 4, 2005 7:38 pm Subject: Re: Strap Buttons >What about the baroque lute? It seems that actually the > weight of a > strap on a swan neck can be allot. Michel Cardin, e.g., uses a ribbon on his swan neck. Eugene To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Strap Buttons
Dr. Marion Ceruti wrote: > So far, I have not heard of a strap button pulling out of a lute. It happens all the time, since they're typically put in like tuning pegs, held by friction. This has nothing to do with the strength of the instrument, of course. > I see no disadvantage with the very slight added weight > My 11-string guitar has 11 metal tuning machines and I have > no trouble holding it for long periods of time. If the rest of your 11-string guitar were as light as a lute, you might have a problem with balance. > As for bowed strings, I don't know about your violins, > but mine have small machine tuners at the loop end of > the strings. Fine tuners are common on student violins. H To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Strap Buttons
Michael, Yes this is true and I have seen this method work very well. Cheers, Marion -Original Message- From: Michael Thames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Apr 4, 2005 2:12 PM To: "Dr. Marion Ceruti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ramon Marco de Sevilla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: Re: Strap Buttons I heard that some people use a silk ribbon tied to the pegbox. and simply sit on the other end Michael Thames www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com - Original Message - From: "Dr. Marion Ceruti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Ramon Marco de Sevilla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 2:19 PM Subject: Re: Strap Buttons > Rob, > > So far, I have not heard of a strap button pulling out of a lute. > However, I have heard of a strap button damaging a guitar > that was checked into the airlines. It was not packed correctly > and the luggage handliers set it down hard on the button end. > The button shifted into the instrument and cracks developed. > Other than that story I have not heard any disadvantages > of a strap button, only advantages. > > Best, > Marion > > -Original Message- > From: Ramon Marco de Sevilla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Apr 4, 2005 12:50 PM > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > Subject: Strap Buttons > > Are lutes built strongly enough to handle strap buttons? > > I have a hard time keeping my lute stable on my lap and am thinking a > strap may help (or velcro!). > > Thanks! > Rob > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > >
Re: Strap Buttons
>I use a lovely purple ribbon for my vihuelas. It is light & it >works great! >ed What about the baroque lute? It seems that actually the weight of a strap on a swan neck can be allot. I'm getting rid of my Ernie Ball, in exchange for a green silk ribbon. My friend warned me not to show at a the LSA, with my Ernie Ball. Michael Thames www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com - Original Message - From: "Edward Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Eugene C. Braig IV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 4:09 PM Subject: Re: Strap Buttons > I use a lovely purple ribbon for my vihuelas. It is light & it works great! > > ed > > At 05:24 PM 4/4/2005 -0400, Eugene C. Braig IV wrote: > >At 05:12 PM 4/4/2005, you wrote: > > >I heard that some people use a silk ribbon tied to the pegbox. and simply > > >sit on the other end > > > > > >I've both heard and seen lutenists do that very thing. > > > >Eugene > > > > > > > >To get on or off this list see list information at > >http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > Edward Martin > 2817 East 2nd Street > Duluth, Minnesota 55812 > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > voice: (218) 728-1202 > > > > >
Re: Strap Buttons
I use a lovely purple ribbon for my vihuelas. It is light & it works great! ed At 05:24 PM 4/4/2005 -0400, Eugene C. Braig IV wrote: >At 05:12 PM 4/4/2005, you wrote: > >I heard that some people use a silk ribbon tied to the pegbox. and simply > >sit on the other end > > >I've both heard and seen lutenists do that very thing. > >Eugene > > > >To get on or off this list see list information at >http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice: (218) 728-1202
Re: Strap Buttons
At 05:12 PM 4/4/2005, you wrote: >I heard that some people use a silk ribbon tied to the pegbox. and simply >sit on the other end I've both heard and seen lutenists do that very thing. Eugene To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Strap Buttons
Michael, Regarding Williams's memorization act: how many instruments and tunings does he perform on on a regular basis? (Koyunbaba doesn't count.) Chris --- Michael Thames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I heard that some people use a silk ribbon tied to > the pegbox. and simply > sit on the other end > Michael Thames > www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com > - Original Message - > From: "Dr. Marion Ceruti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Ramon Marco de Sevilla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 2:19 PM > Subject: Re: Strap Buttons > > > > Rob, > > > > So far, I have not heard of a strap button pulling > out of a lute. > > However, I have heard of a strap button damaging a > guitar > > that was checked into the airlines. It was not > packed correctly > > and the luggage handliers set it down hard on the > button end. > > The button shifted into the instrument and cracks > developed. > > Other than that story I have not heard any > disadvantages > > of a strap button, only advantages. > > > > Best, > > Marion > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Ramon Marco de Sevilla > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Apr 4, 2005 12:50 PM > > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > > Subject: Strap Buttons > > > > Are lutes built strongly enough to handle strap > buttons? > > > > I have a hard time keeping my lute stable on my > lap and am thinking a > > strap may help (or velcro!). > > > > Thanks! > > Rob > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > > > > __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
Re: Strap Buttons
I heard that some people use a silk ribbon tied to the pegbox. and simply sit on the other end Michael Thames www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com - Original Message - From: "Dr. Marion Ceruti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Ramon Marco de Sevilla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 2:19 PM Subject: Re: Strap Buttons > Rob, > > So far, I have not heard of a strap button pulling out of a lute. > However, I have heard of a strap button damaging a guitar > that was checked into the airlines. It was not packed correctly > and the luggage handliers set it down hard on the button end. > The button shifted into the instrument and cracks developed. > Other than that story I have not heard any disadvantages > of a strap button, only advantages. > > Best, > Marion > > -Original Message- > From: Ramon Marco de Sevilla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Apr 4, 2005 12:50 PM > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > Subject: Strap Buttons > > Are lutes built strongly enough to handle strap buttons? > > I have a hard time keeping my lute stable on my lap and am thinking a > strap may help (or velcro!). > > Thanks! > Rob > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > >
Re: Strap Buttons
Good point, Ken. The material I use for non-skid is the neoprene rubber mesh found in Home Depot that you put between hard-wood floors and rugs to keep the rugs from sliding. It works very well, it is inexpensive, and it is available in a variety of different colors. I use black but white pr tan also are available. The smaller the lute, the more you need it becase you have fewer ways to stabilize the lute. Cheers, Marion -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Apr 4, 2005 1:17 PM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: Re: Strap Buttons Even before you set a strap button into your lute (it is strong enough because there is a wooden reinforcement at that end where all the ribs come together, plus the capping strip on the outside) you might consider any number of material or cushions to help hold your lute in place and grip it: chamois cloth, leather, under-rug foam cushions, neoprene. If that doesn't work, then the strap might the best option. Kenneth -Original Message- From: Ramon Marco de Sevilla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 12:50:17 -0700 Subject: Strap Buttons Are lutes built strongly enough to handle strap buttons? I have a hard time keeping my lute stable on my lap and am thinking a strap may help (or velcro!). Thanks! Rob To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
Re: Strap Buttons
Rob, So far, I have not heard of a strap button pulling out of a lute. However, I have heard of a strap button damaging a guitar that was checked into the airlines. It was not packed correctly and the luggage handliers set it down hard on the button end. The button shifted into the instrument and cracks developed. Other than that story I have not heard any disadvantages of a strap button, only advantages. Best, Marion -Original Message- From: Ramon Marco de Sevilla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Apr 4, 2005 12:50 PM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: Strap Buttons Are lutes built strongly enough to handle strap buttons? I have a hard time keeping my lute stable on my lap and am thinking a strap may help (or velcro!). Thanks! Rob To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Strap Buttons
Even before you set a strap button into your lute (it is strong enough because there is a wooden reinforcement at that end where all the ribs come together, plus the capping strip on the outside) you might consider any number of material or cushions to help hold your lute in place and grip it: chamois cloth, leather, under-rug foam cushions, neoprene. If that doesn't work, then the strap might the best option. Kenneth -Original Message- From: Ramon Marco de Sevilla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 12:50:17 -0700 Subject: Strap Buttons Are lutes built strongly enough to handle strap buttons? I have a hard time keeping my lute stable on my lap and am thinking a strap may help (or velcro!). Thanks! Rob To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
Strap Buttons
Are lutes built strongly enough to handle strap buttons? I have a hard time keeping my lute stable on my lap and am thinking a strap may help (or velcro!). Thanks! Rob To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
