Re: Location of supporting files for the windows installers (Was: RC2 coming soon)
Uwe, could I have your input on the following questions: * What do you think about creating a separate sourceforge project for storing the dictionary installers? Why? I already have a berlos.de procect, so why not use the space I already have there? * Which, if any, components does your installer download that are not available from sourceforge servers? My installer only downloads Aspell dictionaries, the rest is included. * Is it only the Aspell dictionary installers we would need to provide from ftp.lyx.org etc? For my installer, yes. regards Uwe
Re: Location of supporting files for the windows installers (Was: RC2 coming soon)
Bo Peng wrote: The point here is that Christian would like to know how to automate the generation of dictionaries, namely having a look at your cygwin script. Sure. http://wiki.lyx.org/uploads/Windows/aspell_installer_data%2Bdict.zip Joost
Re: Location of supporting files for the windows installers (Was: RC2 coming soon)
It's already automated with a Cygwin shell script. I'll generate dictionaries for all languages if you think it's necessary. The point here is that Christian would like to know how to automate the generation of dictionaries, namely having a look at your cygwin script. Same hold for the installer. The more people understand your code, know how to build and modify it, the better the installer can be maintained. If there is no conclusion regarding where to put backup dictionary files, I will put them to http://www.lyx.org/~bpeng and add this backup link to the installer. Cheers, Bo
Re: Location of supporting files for the windows installers (Was: RC2 coming soon)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is involved in creating an installer dictionary? If you (or Uwe?) could explain a bit about it, I'll learn and understand more about it. Feel free to point me to some help instructions if those already exist. It's not good if you're the only one that knows about this. In return, I'll document the process and give it a test run to make sure I know how it works. It's already automated with a Cygwin shell script. I'll generate dictionaries for all languages if you think it's necessary. Joost
Re: Location of supporting files for the windows installers (Was: RC2 coming soon)
On Mon, 18 Jun 2007, Joost Verburg wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree we should compile all the dictionaries, under the condition that it is not too much extra work. However, I don't buy the argument about imposing their will, since this is the LyX project and not the Aspell project. Anyway, as I said. If it's not too much work (or possible to do by a script?), then I think we could just as well do them all. It takes time to generate and upload the dictionaries and to keep them up-to-date. Why should I do all that work if we don't support the languages? What is involved in creating an installer dictionary? If you (or Uwe?) could explain a bit about it, I'll learn and understand more about it. Feel free to point me to some help instructions if those already exist. It's not good if you're the only one that knows about this. In return, I'll document the process and give it a test run to make sure I know how it works. /Christian PS. Perhaps it's possible to automate without too much trouble? IIRC, NSIS can be run under *nix, so perhaps we could set up a system on aussie that in a dumb way creates all the dictionary installers. Then they'd automatically be in a (secondary) correct location, and Jean-Marc could just copy them from there. -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Location of supporting files for the windows installers (Was: RC2 coming soon)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree we should compile all the dictionaries, under the condition that it is not too much extra work. However, I don't buy the argument about imposing their will, since this is the LyX project and not the Aspell project. Anyway, as I said. If it's not too much work (or possible to do by a script?), then I think we could just as well do them all. It takes time to generate and upload the dictionaries and to keep them up-to-date. Why should I do all that work if we don't support the languages? Joost
Re: Location of supporting files for the windows installers (Was: RC2 coming soon)
Uwe Stöhr wrote: LyX supports now for example Farsi (fa) and Armenian (hy). But anyway ,as people downloaded the other dictionaries, they have a reason for this. We should not impose their will. These people probably want to download dictionaries for all supported languages. There is absolutely no reason why anyone would want a dictionary for a non-supported language, so why should we maintain and update them? It does take quite some time to generate and upload the files. Dictionaries for new languages supported by LyX 1.5 will be available soon. Joost
Re: Location of supporting files for the windows installers (Was: RC2 coming soon)
On Mon, 18 Jun 2007, Uwe Stöhr wrote: On Sun, 17 Jun 2007, Joost Verburg wrote: The other languages are not supported by LyX, so I don't see any reason to make dictionaries available for these languages. LyX supports now for example Farsi (fa) and Armenian (hy). But anyway ,as people downloaded the other dictionaries, they have a reason for this. We should not impose their will. I agree we should compile all the dictionaries, under the condition that it is not too much extra work. However, I don't buy the argument about imposing their will, since this is the LyX project and not the Aspell project. Anyway, as I said. If it's not too much work (or possible to do by a script?), then I think we could just as well do them all. Uwe, could I have your input on the following questions: * What do you think about creating a separate sourceforge project for storing the dictionary installers? * Which, if any, components does your installer download that are not available from sourceforge servers? * Is it only the Aspell dictionary installers we would need to provide from ftp.lyx.org etc? I might have asked others, but these are probably still relevant. Cheers /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Location of supporting files for the windows installers (Was: RC2 coming soon)
On Sun, 17 Jun 2007, Joost Verburg wrote: > The other languages are not supported by LyX, so I don't see any reason to make dictionaries > available for these languages. LyX supports now for example Farsi (fa) and Armenian (hy). But anyway ,as people downloaded the other dictionaries, they have a reason for this. We should not impose their will. regards Uwe
Re: Location of supporting files for the windows installers (Was: RC2 coming soon)
On Sun, 17 Jun 2007, Joost Verburg wrote: Uwe Stöhr wrote: So could you also provide the now missing Aspell dictionaries at ftp.lyx.org or was there a reason why you don't build the dictionaries for all languages? The other languages are not supported by LyX, so I don't see any reason to make dictionaries available for these languages. Hmm.. So if LyX starts supporting another language we'll have to remember to add the dictionary? I think it makes sense create all the dictionaries now and be done with it. Or does that require a lot of resources of some form? /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Location of supporting files for the windows installers (Was: RC2 coming soon)
Uwe Stöhr wrote: So could you also provide the now missing Aspell dictionaries at ftp.lyx.org or was there a reason why you don't build the dictionaries for all languages? The other languages are not supported by LyX, so I don't see any reason to make dictionaries available for these languages. Joost
Re: Location of supporting files for the windows installers (Was: RC2 coming soon)
Hi Joost, I wanted to update the Aspell dictionaries at berlios.de but see now that at ftp.lyx.org many dictionaries are missing. You can see from the download statistics here http://developer.berlios.de/project/showfiles.php?group_id=5117&release_id=9651 that every Aspell dictionary was downloaded by users. So could you also provide the now missing Aspell dictionaries at ftp.lyx.org or was there a reason why you don't build the dictionaries for all languages? thanks and regards Uwe
Re: Location of supporting files for the windows installers (Was: RC2 coming soon)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 17 Jun 2007, Joost Verburg wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are older versions kept somewhere else? Or have the dictionary installers newer been updated? The old versions are somewhere in the wiki uploads directory. Ok. Is that where old LyX installers look for them? Yes. Joost
Re: Location of supporting files for the windows installers (Was: RC2 coming soon)
On Sun, 17 Jun 2007, Joost Verburg wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are older versions kept somewhere else? Or have the dictionary installers newer been updated? The old versions are somewhere in the wiki uploads directory. Ok. Is that where old LyX installers look for them? /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Location of supporting files for the windows installers (Was: RC2 coming soon)
On Sun, 17 Jun 2007, Joost Verburg wrote: Softlinks on the FTP server to the most recent versions will do. Like aspell6-en-latest.exe. Hmm.. that's not necessarily so easy to synchronize between different servers. We don't want to create a lot of work for Jean-Marc. (Or whoever it is that can write to ftp.lyx.org) Below I've outlined one process that cold be used to update/synchronize when even a single new dictionary (installer) is introduced. To begin with, we have a 'master' directory somewhere that we can write to, e.g. under http://www.lyx.org/.../aspell6. Then, when we create a new version of a dictionary installer, we write it to that directory. And update/change the soft link in that directory. Finally we create a .tar.gz file with everything in that directory and ask Jean-Marc to replace the content on ftp.lyx.org/.../aspell6 with that tar-file. It'd work, but it's not so elegant. I know there are better synchronizing softwares, but we don't know if Jean-Marc has enough access to use them. The soft links might be a problem for instance. Maybe a straight copy is simpler... I'm sending this to Jean-Marc as well for his comments. Jean-Marc? /Christian PS. Having the LyX installer be able to select among the dictionaries, or simply list everything that's on the FTP server, would be more elegant but I'm doubtful it's worth the trouble to write. -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Location of supporting files for the windows installers (Was: RC2 coming soon)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are older versions kept somewhere else? Or have the dictionary installers newer been updated? The old versions are somewhere in the wiki uploads directory. Joost
Re: Location of supporting files for the windows installers (Was: RC2 coming soon)
On Sun, 17 Jun 2007, Joost Verburg wrote: Do we ever need to support old versions of a dictionary? (For instance if a new version of a dictionary contains a spelling of a word that someone thinks is incorrect). I keep the old versions for older installers. If you want the installers to always download the most recent versions some softlinks need to be created on the FTP server. I looked, and now looked again, but I could only see a single version of the dictionary installer for each language at ftp://ftp.lyx.org/pub/lyx/contrib/aspell6-windows/ Are older versions kept somewhere else? Or have the dictionary installers newer been updated? Will old LyX installers still work, i.e. be able to install Aspell properly? /Christian PS. I'm starting a wiki page for all these notes regarding Aspell for the future: http://wiki.lyx.org/Devel/Aspell -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Location of supporting files for the windows installers (Was: RC2 coming soon)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I looked in the directory again, and I think I understand it better now. For an installer of a dictionary, e.g. .../aspell6-windows/aspell6-af-0.50-0.exe * The '6' in 'aspell6' stands for dictonary format '6'. * The '-af-' stands for the language * The '0.50-0' stands for the version of the dictionary. Correct? Correct. How will we deal with old versions of dictionary (installers)? When a new dictionary comes along, we'll eventually catch up and produce a corresponding dictonary installer. Then we'll eventually make an updated LyX installer, that'll refer to the new dictionary installer. However, the old LyX installers will still refer to the old dictionary installer, so in order to not break those we need keep the old dictionary installers around. Correct? Correct. We could, some time in the future, make the LyX installer be smarter about which version of the LyX installer it should install. Or is it already so smart that it downloads a list of the available dictionaries to install? Softlinks on the FTP server to the most recent versions will do. Like aspell6-en-latest.exe. Joost
Re: Location of supporting files for the windows installers (Was: RC2 coming soon)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It feels like I'm missing something here. You say you'd like to be able to update the files now and then. However, the format is not going to change. The dictionary file format is not going to change anytime soon. Reading what you wrote earlier, I wonder: Is this about updating the dictionary _installers_? (E.g. because there's an improved dictionary, _or_ because there is a better installer part available?) The dictionary installers will have to be updated every now and then when new dictionaries are released (both new languages as well as updated dictionaries) or when the installers needs a bugfix or new feature. Do we ever need to support old versions of a dictionary? (For instance if a new version of a dictionary contains a spelling of a word that someone thinks is incorrect). I keep the old versions for older installers. If you want the installers to always download the most recent versions some softlinks need to be created on the FTP server. Joost
Re: Location of supporting files for the windows installers (Was: RC2 coming soon)
On Sun, 17 Jun 2007, Joost Verburg wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Btw, it's not all clear to me that this directory only contains dictionaries. I think the name should say this, so I'm modifying my suggestion to the following: Why create a whole directory structure if we only need to host dictionaries? In case we need to store something else in the future? If we are reasonably sure it'll only ever be the dictionaries, I agree with you. If you change the name there should already be a redirect so older installers keep working. True. Or just leave the old copy where it is... (it only seems to be about 30-60MB). And add a 'README' saying where more up-to-date stuff can be found. I looked in the directory again, and I think I understand it better now. For an installer of a dictionary, e.g. .../aspell6-windows/aspell6-af-0.50-0.exe * The '6' in 'aspell6' stands for dictonary format '6'. * The '-af-' stands for the language * The '0.50-0' stands for the version of the dictionary. Correct? How will we deal with old versions of dictionary (installers)? When a new dictionary comes along, we'll eventually catch up and produce a corresponding dictonary installer. Then we'll eventually make an updated LyX installer, that'll refer to the new dictionary installer. However, the old LyX installers will still refer to the old dictionary installer, so in order to not break those we need keep the old dictionary installers around. Correct? We could, some time in the future, make the LyX installer be smarter about which version of the LyX installer it should install. Or is it already so smart that it downloads a list of the available dictionaries to install? /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Location of supporting files for the windows installers (Was: RC2 coming soon)
On Sun, 17 Jun 2007, Joost Verburg wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have an alternative suggestion if we are really only talking about dictionaries for Aspell. Why should we host them? Let's put them on sourceforge instead. Either get them in with the Aspell project, or start a separate project for the Aspell dictionaries. Creating a SF project is fine with me, but I don't really think it is necessary. I tried to contact the Aspell developer before, but he is not really interested in a Windows version. I'd also like to be able to update the files within a reasonable time. It feels like I'm missing something here. You say you'd like to be able to update the files now and then. However, the format is not going to change. Reading what you wrote earlier, I wonder: Is this about updating the dictionary _installers_? (E.g. because there's an improved dictionary, _or_ because there is a better installer part available?) Do we ever need to support old versions of a dictionary? (For instance if a new version of a dictionary contains a spelling of a word that someone thinks is incorrect). /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Location of supporting files for the windows installers (Was: RC2 coming soon)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have an alternative suggestion if we are really only talking about dictionaries for Aspell. Why should we host them? Let's put them on sourceforge instead. Either get them in with the Aspell project, or start a separate project for the Aspell dictionaries. Creating a SF project is fine with me, but I don't really think it is necessary. I tried to contact the Aspell developer before, but he is not really interested in a Windows version. I'd also like to be able to update the files within a reasonable time. Joost
Re: Location of supporting files for the windows installers (Was: RC2 coming soon)
On Sun, 17 Jun 2007, Joost Verburg wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about some of the components themselves? I have some (vague) memory of this being discussed. (The original location of the components should probably the primary place to look for them, but we could supply a backup location for the installer. Not necessarily for all components, but for some of them). The other components are hosted on SourceForge. Uwe, are all components your installer need hosted on sf? The download servers of SF are reliable and they have the policy never to delete any file (even the project administrators cannot delete files). Not sure I agree 100% with that, but it's good enough I think. They also have a dozen of mirror servers that can be used when we add alternative download locations to the installer. Maybe it's some of the mirrors I've had problems with. > > If it's more then aspell dictionaries, how about a directory tree > > that looks something like this: The purpose with a tree was to make it easy to synchronize the entire tree between different locations. So I'd still suggest something like: We only need to host Aspell dictionaries because no Windows dictionaries are provided on the official site. Uwe, do you concur? I have an alternative suggestion if we are really only talking about dictionaries for Aspell. Why should we host them? Let's put them on sourceforge instead. Either get them in with the Aspell project, or start a separate project for the Aspell dictionaries. What do you think of this? /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Location of supporting files for the windows installers (Was: RC2 coming soon)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Btw, it's not all clear to me that this directory only contains dictionaries. I think the name should say this, so I'm modifying my suggestion to the following: Why create a whole directory structure if we only need to host dictionaries? If you change the name there should already be a redirect so older installers keep working. Joost
Re: Location of supporting files for the windows installers (Was: RC2 coming soon)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about some of the components themselves? I have some (vague) memory of this being discussed. (The original location of the components should probably the primary place to look for them, but we could supply a backup location for the installer. Not necessarily for all components, but for some of them). The other components are hosted on SourceForge. The download servers of SF are reliable and they have the policy never to delete any file (even the project administrators cannot delete files). They also have a dozen of mirror servers that can be used when we add alternative download locations to the installer. If it's more then aspell dictionaries, how about a directory tree that looks something like this: The purpose with a tree was to make it easy to synchronize the entire tree between different locations. So I'd still suggest something like: We only need to host Aspell dictionaries because no Windows dictionaries are provided on the official site. Joost
Re: Location of supporting files for the windows installers (Was: RC2 coming soon)
On Sun, 17 Jun 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The version number of the dictionary format (6) is already in the name. If there would ever be a new Aspell version with a different dictionary format (which is very unlikely), the dictionaries will be uploaded to ftp://ftp.lyx.org/pub/lyx/contrib/aspell7-windows/ Btw, it's not all clear to me that this directory only contains dictionaries. I think the name should say this, so I'm modifying my suggestion to the following: The purpose with a tree was to make it easy to synchronize the entire tree between different locations. So I'd still suggest something like: contrib/ windows-installer-support/ dictionaries-aspell6/ A better name than 'windows' could be used of course. Perhaps something like 'windows-installer-support'. It doesn't really have to be a short URI. /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Location of supporting files for the windows installers (Was: RC2 coming soon)
On Sun, 17 Jun 2007, Joost Verburg wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are aspell dictionaries the only thing that we should provide? Are there and components used by the downloading installers that we should provide a (backup) location for? Only Aspell is used on Windows. What about some of the components themselves? I have some (vague) memory of this being discussed. (The original location of the components should probably the primary place to look for them, but we could supply a backup location for the installer. Not necessarily for all components, but for some of them). If it's more then aspell dictionaries, how about a directory tree that looks something like this: * contrib/ ** windows/ *** aspell/ 6.0/(dictionaries for aspell6.0) *** ? what else might there be? The version number of the dictionary format (6) is already in the name. If there would ever be a new Aspell version with a different dictionary format (which is very unlikely), the dictionaries will be uploaded to ftp://ftp.lyx.org/pub/lyx/contrib/aspell7-windows/ The purpose with a tree was to make it easy to synchronize the entire tree between different locations. So I'd still suggest something like: * contrib/ ** windows/ <- the directory that will be synchronized *** aspell6 A better name than 'windows' could be used of course. Perhaps something like 'windows-installer-support'. It doesn't really have to be a short URI. /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Location of supporting files for the windows installers (Was: RC2 coming soon)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are aspell dictionaries the only thing that we should provide? Are there and components used by the downloading installers that we should provide a (backup) location for? Only Aspell is used on Windows. If it's more then aspell dictionaries, how about a directory tree that looks something like this: * contrib/ ** windows/ *** aspell/ 6.0/(dictionaries for aspell6.0) *** ? what else might there be? The version number of the dictionary format (6) is already in the name. If there would ever be a new Aspell version with a different dictionary format (which is very unlikely), the dictionaries will be uploaded to ftp://ftp.lyx.org/pub/lyx/contrib/aspell7-windows/ Joost
