Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
Etienne M. Gagnon wrote: Abdelrazak Younes wrote: This is best solved by making sure LyX doesn't spit out spurious \n's everywhere... I've looked in the code, and this part does not seem beautiful at all. I won't even copy here some comments I read in the code; they were too awful! :-) That the code is less than perfect is a fact ;-) That we need help to improve it is also a fact. Whether you'll help us or not is still unknown :-) Hi Abdel, Just making sure there's no misunderstanding: I really meant this as funny remark, not as a critic of of the code. But as I said, you, and anybody else, are entitled to give remarks on the code, no offence taken, really. As I intend to start using LyX on a regular basis (given that the biggest show stopper for me was list handling, and once I figure out how to compile the code locally [something to do with missing QChar], that'll be in the past), I am likely to contribute back bug reports/suggestions/etc. But, hey, give me a chance... The primary objective of my message was to trigger exactly this reaction. We always look for need blood. But you'll have to get a stronger skin in order to participate to the development, as opposed to this list the devel list is not gentle :-) En plus un troisième francophone sera le bienvenue pour compenser la présence Allemande, même si la plupart de nos Allemands parle Francais! :-) Abdel.
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
Etienne M. Gagnon wrote: I figure out how to compile the code locally [something to do with missing QChar], By the way, feel free to send the compile error to the devel list. Abdel.
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
On 28.06.08, Etienne M. Gagnon wrote:
Christopher Reeve wrote:
This is best solved by making sure LyX doesn't spit out spurious \n's
everywhere...
The \n is not exactly spurious. The problem is that
* while in plain LaTeX, you can freely insert a blank line or not
depending on whether a list (or generally an environment) shall start a
new paragraph or not
* in LyX you must start a new paragraph for a list (or generally for an
environment change, except when nesting).
OTOH, while I object to the *everywhere* in your statement, I agree that
it would be better to join lists to preceding paragraphs without
separating blank lines (especially, as there is no blank line *below*
which is inconsistent).
In this special case (list environments)
* it is more likely (IMO) that the user does *not* want a separate
paragraph in the LaTeX source (i.e. no blank above and below).
* it is possible to force a new paragraph (insert a blank line) from
within LyX (inserting an empty paragraph with the
-- Environment Separator -- Layout),
but it is not possible to remove the blank line from within LyX.
This is why I vote for no blank lines around lists in the generate
LaTeX source.
An alternative would be to always insert blank lines above new paragraphs
(also below a list when a standard paragraph follows) and allow nesting
of stuff inside Standard paragraphs.
(I.e. make the Standard paragraph's LatexType Environment and do not
generate \begin{dummy} \end{dummy}.)
Günter
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 08:26:57AM +0200, Abdelrazak Younes wrote: En plus un troisième francophone sera le bienvenue pour compenser la présence Allemande, même si la plupart de nos Allemands parle Francais! :-) Pffft. Andre' [;-)]
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
G. Milde wrote: [...] * it is possible to force a new paragraph (insert a blank line) from within LyX (inserting an empty paragraph with the -- Environment Separator -- Layout) Interesting... I'll try this and look at the LaTeX output as soon as I get a standalone LyX version to compile on my Mac. It seems that the fink version of qt uses X... I'm now trying to install QT from a source download, just to see if that's really the problem. Etienne -- Etienne M. Gagnon, Ph.D. SableCC:http://sablecc.org SableVM:http://sablevm.org signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
Etienne M. Gagnon wrote: G. Milde wrote: [...] * it is possible to force a new paragraph (insert a blank line) from within LyX (inserting an empty paragraph with the -- Environment Separator -- Layout) Interesting... I'll try this and look at the LaTeX output as soon as I get a standalone LyX version to compile on my Mac. It seems that the fink version of qt uses X... I'm now trying to install QT from a source download, just to see if that's really the problem. OK. 2 things: 1. Succeeded at producing a nice standalone application for OSX(Leopard)/Intel. I needed a freshly compiled qt4 (instead of the one included in fink). I also needed to add some extra stuff in LDFLAGS due to some OSX problem. I think the are new OSX libraries with duplicate names that break LyX's build on my Leopard machine. Google pointed me to Apple's web site which had the LDFLAGS fix: export LDFLAGS=-Wl,-dylib_file,/System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGL.dylib:/System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGL.dylib -framework Carbon -framework OpenGL -framework AGL -framework QuickTime -framework Cocoa 2. The -- Environment Separator -- Layout trick is perfect. When used along the no-blank-line patch, it allows the user to add a blank line without using ERT. Super! (QT was quite long to download and compile...) Etienne -- Etienne M. Gagnon, Ph.D. SableCC:http://sablecc.org SableVM:http://sablevm.org signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
Etienne M. Gagnon wrote: Abdelrazak Younes wrote: This is best solved by making sure LyX doesn't spit out spurious \n's everywhere... I've looked in the code, and this part does not seem beautiful at all. I won't even copy here some comments I read in the code; they were too awful! :-) That the code is less than perfect is a fact ;-) That we need help to improve it is also a fact. Whether you'll help us or not is still unknown :-) Hi Abdel, Just making sure there's no misunderstanding: I really meant this as funny remark, not as a critic of of the code. But as I said, you, and anybody else, are entitled to give remarks on the code, no offence taken, really. As I intend to start using LyX on a regular basis (given that the biggest show stopper for me was list handling, and once I figure out how to compile the code locally [something to do with missing QChar], that'll be in the past), I am likely to contribute back bug reports/suggestions/etc. But, hey, give me a chance... The primary objective of my message was to trigger exactly this reaction. We always look for need blood. But you'll have to get a stronger skin in order to participate to the development, as opposed to this list the devel list is not gentle :-) En plus un troisième francophone sera le bienvenue pour compenser la présence Allemande, même si la plupart de nos Allemands parle Francais! :-) Abdel.
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
Etienne M. Gagnon wrote: I figure out how to compile the code locally [something to do with missing QChar], By the way, feel free to send the compile error to the devel list. Abdel.
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
On 28.06.08, Etienne M. Gagnon wrote:
Christopher Reeve wrote:
This is best solved by making sure LyX doesn't spit out spurious \n's
everywhere...
The \n is not exactly spurious. The problem is that
* while in plain LaTeX, you can freely insert a blank line or not
depending on whether a list (or generally an environment) shall start a
new paragraph or not
* in LyX you must start a new paragraph for a list (or generally for an
environment change, except when nesting).
OTOH, while I object to the *everywhere* in your statement, I agree that
it would be better to join lists to preceding paragraphs without
separating blank lines (especially, as there is no blank line *below*
which is inconsistent).
In this special case (list environments)
* it is more likely (IMO) that the user does *not* want a separate
paragraph in the LaTeX source (i.e. no blank above and below).
* it is possible to force a new paragraph (insert a blank line) from
within LyX (inserting an empty paragraph with the
-- Environment Separator -- Layout),
but it is not possible to remove the blank line from within LyX.
This is why I vote for no blank lines around lists in the generate
LaTeX source.
An alternative would be to always insert blank lines above new paragraphs
(also below a list when a standard paragraph follows) and allow nesting
of stuff inside Standard paragraphs.
(I.e. make the Standard paragraph's LatexType Environment and do not
generate \begin{dummy} \end{dummy}.)
Günter
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 08:26:57AM +0200, Abdelrazak Younes wrote: En plus un troisième francophone sera le bienvenue pour compenser la présence Allemande, même si la plupart de nos Allemands parle Francais! :-) Pffft. Andre' [;-)]
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
G. Milde wrote: [...] * it is possible to force a new paragraph (insert a blank line) from within LyX (inserting an empty paragraph with the -- Environment Separator -- Layout) Interesting... I'll try this and look at the LaTeX output as soon as I get a standalone LyX version to compile on my Mac. It seems that the fink version of qt uses X... I'm now trying to install QT from a source download, just to see if that's really the problem. Etienne -- Etienne M. Gagnon, Ph.D. SableCC:http://sablecc.org SableVM:http://sablevm.org signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
Etienne M. Gagnon wrote: G. Milde wrote: [...] * it is possible to force a new paragraph (insert a blank line) from within LyX (inserting an empty paragraph with the -- Environment Separator -- Layout) Interesting... I'll try this and look at the LaTeX output as soon as I get a standalone LyX version to compile on my Mac. It seems that the fink version of qt uses X... I'm now trying to install QT from a source download, just to see if that's really the problem. OK. 2 things: 1. Succeeded at producing a nice standalone application for OSX(Leopard)/Intel. I needed a freshly compiled qt4 (instead of the one included in fink). I also needed to add some extra stuff in LDFLAGS due to some OSX problem. I think the are new OSX libraries with duplicate names that break LyX's build on my Leopard machine. Google pointed me to Apple's web site which had the LDFLAGS fix: export LDFLAGS=-Wl,-dylib_file,/System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGL.dylib:/System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGL.dylib -framework Carbon -framework OpenGL -framework AGL -framework QuickTime -framework Cocoa 2. The -- Environment Separator -- Layout trick is perfect. When used along the no-blank-line patch, it allows the user to add a blank line without using ERT. Super! (QT was quite long to download and compile...) Etienne -- Etienne M. Gagnon, Ph.D. SableCC:http://sablecc.org SableVM:http://sablevm.org signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
Etienne M. Gagnon wrote: Abdelrazak Younes wrote: This is best solved by making sure LyX doesn't spit out spurious "\n"'s everywhere... I've looked in the code, and this part does not seem beautiful at all. I won't even copy here some comments I read in the code; they were too awful! :-) That the code is less than perfect is a fact ;-) That we need help to improve it is also a fact. Whether you'll help us or not is still unknown :-) Hi Abdel, Just making sure there's no misunderstanding: I really meant this as funny remark, not as a critic of of the code. But as I said, you, and anybody else, are entitled to give remarks on the code, no offence taken, really. As I intend to start using LyX on a regular basis (given that the biggest show stopper for me was list handling, and once I figure out how to compile the code locally [something to do with missing "QChar"], that'll be in the past), I am likely to contribute back bug reports/suggestions/etc. But, hey, give me a chance... The primary objective of my message was to trigger exactly this reaction. We always look for need blood. But you'll have to get a stronger skin in order to participate to the development, as opposed to this list the devel list is not gentle :-) En plus un troisième francophone sera le bienvenue pour compenser la présence Allemande, même si la plupart de nos Allemands parle Francais! :-) Abdel.
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
Etienne M. Gagnon wrote: I figure out how to compile the code locally [something to do with missing "QChar"], By the way, feel free to send the compile error to the devel list. Abdel.
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
On 28.06.08, Etienne M. Gagnon wrote:
> Christopher Reeve wrote:
> This is best solved by making sure LyX doesn't spit out spurious "\n"'s
> everywhere...
The \n is not exactly spurious. The problem is that
* while in plain LaTeX, you can freely insert a blank line or not
depending on whether a list (or generally an environment) shall start a
new paragraph or not
* in LyX you must start a new paragraph for a list (or generally for an
environment change, except when nesting).
OTOH, while I object to the *everywhere* in your statement, I agree that
it would be better to join lists to preceding paragraphs without
separating blank lines (especially, as there is no blank line *below*
which is inconsistent).
In this special case (list environments)
* it is more likely (IMO) that the user does *not* want a separate
paragraph in the LaTeX source (i.e. no blank above and below).
* it is possible to force a new paragraph (insert a blank line) from
within LyX (inserting an empty paragraph with the
-- Environment Separator -- Layout),
but it is not possible to remove the blank line from within LyX.
This is why I vote for no blank lines around lists in the generate
LaTeX source.
An alternative would be to always insert blank lines above new paragraphs
(also below a list when a standard paragraph follows) and allow nesting
of stuff inside Standard paragraphs.
(I.e. make the Standard paragraph's LatexType "Environment" and do not
generate \begin{dummy} \end{dummy}.)
Günter
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 08:26:57AM +0200, Abdelrazak Younes wrote: > En plus un troisième francophone sera le bienvenue pour compenser la > présence Allemande, même si la plupart de nos Allemands parle Francais! > :-) Pffft. Andre' [;-)]
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
G. Milde wrote: [...] * it is possible to force a new paragraph (insert a blank line) from within LyX (inserting an empty paragraph with the -- Environment Separator -- Layout) Interesting... I'll try this and look at the LaTeX output as soon as I get a standalone LyX version to compile on my Mac. It seems that the fink version of qt uses X... I'm now trying to install QT from a source download, just to see if that's really the problem. Etienne -- Etienne M. Gagnon, Ph.D. SableCC:http://sablecc.org SableVM:http://sablevm.org signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
Etienne M. Gagnon wrote: G. Milde wrote: [...] * it is possible to force a new paragraph (insert a blank line) from within LyX (inserting an empty paragraph with the -- Environment Separator -- Layout) Interesting... I'll try this and look at the LaTeX output as soon as I get a standalone LyX version to compile on my Mac. It seems that the fink version of qt uses X... I'm now trying to install QT from a source download, just to see if that's really the problem. OK. 2 things: 1. Succeeded at producing a nice standalone application for OSX(Leopard)/Intel. I needed a freshly compiled qt4 (instead of the one included in fink). I also needed to add some extra stuff in LDFLAGS due to some OSX problem. I think the are new OSX libraries with duplicate names that break LyX's build on my Leopard machine. Google pointed me to Apple's web site which had the LDFLAGS fix: export LDFLAGS="-Wl,-dylib_file,/System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGL.dylib:/System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGL.dylib -framework Carbon -framework OpenGL -framework AGL -framework QuickTime -framework Cocoa" 2. The "-- Environment Separator -- Layout" trick is perfect. When used along the no-blank-line patch, it allows the user to add a blank line without using ERT. Super! (QT was quite long to download and compile...) Etienne -- Etienne M. Gagnon, Ph.D. SableCC:http://sablecc.org SableVM:http://sablevm.org signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
Etienne M. Gagnon wrote: This is best solved by making sure LyX doesn't spit out spurious \n's everywhere... I've looked in the code, and this part does not seem beautiful at all. I won't even copy here some comments I read in the code; they were too awful! :-) That the code is less than perfect is a fact ;-) That we need help to improve it is also a fact. Whether you'll help us or not is still unknown :-) Abdel.
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
Abdelrazak Younes wrote: This is best solved by making sure LyX doesn't spit out spurious \n's everywhere... I've looked in the code, and this part does not seem beautiful at all. I won't even copy here some comments I read in the code; they were too awful! :-) That the code is less than perfect is a fact ;-) That we need help to improve it is also a fact. Whether you'll help us or not is still unknown :-) Hi Abdel, Just making sure there's no misunderstanding: I really meant this as funny remark, not as a critic of of the code. I program too, and not all of my public code is perfect either. It's just that in my projects I filter out such comments. Every project has its own culture; I just found it funny to read scary comments in the source code. That's all! If the code was so bad, the software wouldn't work in the first place. And, actually, most of the source files I browsed through had a readability far above what I am used to see in C++ code. And, finally, I was looking at the wrong place (see below). Within very little time after submitting my bug report, there was already a patch proposed for it. Then a discussion followed with another patch. Big thanks to Juergen Spitzmueller and Jean-Marc Lasgouttes. (This is how I know that I was looking at the wrong place). As I intend to start using LyX on a regular basis (given that the biggest show stopper for me was list handling, and once I figure out how to compile the code locally [something to do with missing QChar], that'll be in the past), I am likely to contribute back bug reports/suggestions/etc. But, hey, give me a chance... First, I will be more on the receiving end, as a user trying to catch tricks here and there. Yet, as I already have written a couple of theses, as well as some reports and papers with LaTeX, I might occasionally be able to help people with less knowledge than me on this list. I will also invite people (students being my primary audience) to use LyX. We'll see how it goes. Thanks to all for the quick help and feedback. Etienne -- Etienne M. Gagnon, Ph.D. SableCC:http://sablecc.org SableVM:http://sablevm.org signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
Etienne M. Gagnon wrote: This is best solved by making sure LyX doesn't spit out spurious \n's everywhere... I've looked in the code, and this part does not seem beautiful at all. I won't even copy here some comments I read in the code; they were too awful! :-) That the code is less than perfect is a fact ;-) That we need help to improve it is also a fact. Whether you'll help us or not is still unknown :-) Abdel.
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
Abdelrazak Younes wrote: This is best solved by making sure LyX doesn't spit out spurious \n's everywhere... I've looked in the code, and this part does not seem beautiful at all. I won't even copy here some comments I read in the code; they were too awful! :-) That the code is less than perfect is a fact ;-) That we need help to improve it is also a fact. Whether you'll help us or not is still unknown :-) Hi Abdel, Just making sure there's no misunderstanding: I really meant this as funny remark, not as a critic of of the code. I program too, and not all of my public code is perfect either. It's just that in my projects I filter out such comments. Every project has its own culture; I just found it funny to read scary comments in the source code. That's all! If the code was so bad, the software wouldn't work in the first place. And, actually, most of the source files I browsed through had a readability far above what I am used to see in C++ code. And, finally, I was looking at the wrong place (see below). Within very little time after submitting my bug report, there was already a patch proposed for it. Then a discussion followed with another patch. Big thanks to Juergen Spitzmueller and Jean-Marc Lasgouttes. (This is how I know that I was looking at the wrong place). As I intend to start using LyX on a regular basis (given that the biggest show stopper for me was list handling, and once I figure out how to compile the code locally [something to do with missing QChar], that'll be in the past), I am likely to contribute back bug reports/suggestions/etc. But, hey, give me a chance... First, I will be more on the receiving end, as a user trying to catch tricks here and there. Yet, as I already have written a couple of theses, as well as some reports and papers with LaTeX, I might occasionally be able to help people with less knowledge than me on this list. I will also invite people (students being my primary audience) to use LyX. We'll see how it goes. Thanks to all for the quick help and feedback. Etienne -- Etienne M. Gagnon, Ph.D. SableCC:http://sablecc.org SableVM:http://sablevm.org signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
Etienne M. Gagnon wrote: This is best solved by making sure LyX doesn't spit out spurious "\n"'s everywhere... I've looked in the code, and this part does not seem beautiful at all. I won't even copy here some comments I read in the code; they were too awful! :-) That the code is less than perfect is a fact ;-) That we need help to improve it is also a fact. Whether you'll help us or not is still unknown :-) Abdel.
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
Abdelrazak Younes wrote: This is best solved by making sure LyX doesn't spit out spurious "\n"'s everywhere... I've looked in the code, and this part does not seem beautiful at all. I won't even copy here some comments I read in the code; they were too awful! :-) That the code is less than perfect is a fact ;-) That we need help to improve it is also a fact. Whether you'll help us or not is still unknown :-) Hi Abdel, Just making sure there's no misunderstanding: I really meant this as funny remark, not as a critic of of the code. I program too, and not all of my public code is perfect either. It's just that in my projects I filter out such comments. Every project has its own culture; I just found it funny to read scary comments in the source code. That's all! If the code was so bad, the software wouldn't work in the first place. And, actually, most of the source files I browsed through had a readability far above what I am used to see in C++ code. And, finally, I was looking at the wrong place (see below). Within very little time after submitting my bug report, there was already a patch proposed for it. Then a discussion followed with another patch. Big thanks to Juergen Spitzmueller and Jean-Marc Lasgouttes. (This is how I know that I was looking at the wrong place). As I intend to start using LyX on a regular basis (given that the biggest show stopper for me was list handling, and once I figure out how to compile the code locally [something to do with missing "QChar"], that'll be in the past), I am likely to contribute back bug reports/suggestions/etc. But, hey, give me a chance... First, I will be more on the receiving end, as a user trying to catch tricks here and there. Yet, as I already have written a couple of theses, as well as some reports and papers with LaTeX, I might occasionally be able to help people with less knowledge than me on this list. I will also invite people (students being my primary audience) to use LyX. We'll see how it goes. Thanks to all for the quick help and feedback. Etienne -- Etienne M. Gagnon, Ph.D. SableCC:http://sablecc.org SableVM:http://sablevm.org signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
Hi Etinne, I know you won't exactly love this solution, but it does work. You can remove the extra space again simply by entering a spacer with a user value with a negative in front. eg -1 em. This removes the text up a line again. You have to give LyX more of a chance. Writing in LaTeX requires some fiddling too and most problems you can get around with LyX. You just need to find new ways sometimes. There are so many advantages to writing in LyX when you get to know it. I'd never go back! Chris.
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
Christopher Reeve wrote: I know you won't exactly love this solution, but it does work. You can remove the extra space again simply by entering a spacer with a user value with a negative in front. eg -1 em. This removes the text up a line again. The main problem with this approach is that: 1. It won't always look similar to not having a blank line in the LaTeX source as soon as you start playing with global spacing options. Having to go back and fix every ERT because you changed a global option is not a good idea. 2. It requires the human to consistently add ERT to every list. Consistency is not best achieved by humans, unfortunately. This is best solved by making sure LyX doesn't spit out spurious \n's everywhere... I've looked in the code, and this part does not seem beautiful at all. I won't even copy here some comments I read in the code; they were too awful! :-) Etienne -- Etienne M. Gagnon, Ph.D. SableCC:http://sablecc.org SableVM:http://sablevm.org signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
Bennett Helm wrote: [...] In the meantime, so your report doesn't get lost, may I suggest that you submit this as a bug [...] Done. See: http://bugzilla.lyx.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4993. Etienne -- Etienne M. Gagnon, Ph.D. SableCC:http://sablecc.org SableVM:http://sablevm.org signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
Hi Etinne, I know you won't exactly love this solution, but it does work. You can remove the extra space again simply by entering a spacer with a user value with a negative in front. eg -1 em. This removes the text up a line again. You have to give LyX more of a chance. Writing in LaTeX requires some fiddling too and most problems you can get around with LyX. You just need to find new ways sometimes. There are so many advantages to writing in LyX when you get to know it. I'd never go back! Chris.
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
Christopher Reeve wrote: I know you won't exactly love this solution, but it does work. You can remove the extra space again simply by entering a spacer with a user value with a negative in front. eg -1 em. This removes the text up a line again. The main problem with this approach is that: 1. It won't always look similar to not having a blank line in the LaTeX source as soon as you start playing with global spacing options. Having to go back and fix every ERT because you changed a global option is not a good idea. 2. It requires the human to consistently add ERT to every list. Consistency is not best achieved by humans, unfortunately. This is best solved by making sure LyX doesn't spit out spurious \n's everywhere... I've looked in the code, and this part does not seem beautiful at all. I won't even copy here some comments I read in the code; they were too awful! :-) Etienne -- Etienne M. Gagnon, Ph.D. SableCC:http://sablecc.org SableVM:http://sablevm.org signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
Bennett Helm wrote: [...] In the meantime, so your report doesn't get lost, may I suggest that you submit this as a bug [...] Done. See: http://bugzilla.lyx.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4993. Etienne -- Etienne M. Gagnon, Ph.D. SableCC:http://sablecc.org SableVM:http://sablevm.org signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
Hi Etinne, I know you won't exactly love this solution, but it does work. You can remove the extra space again simply by entering a spacer with a user value with a negative in front. eg -1 em. This removes the text up a line again. You have to give LyX more of a chance. Writing in LaTeX requires some fiddling too and most problems you can get around with LyX. You just need to find new ways sometimes. There are so many advantages to writing in LyX when you get to know it. I'd never go back! Chris.
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
Christopher Reeve wrote: I know you won't exactly love this solution, but it does work. You can remove the extra space again simply by entering a spacer with a user value with a negative in front. eg -1 em. This removes the text up a line again. The main problem with this approach is that: 1. It won't always look similar to not having a blank line in the LaTeX source as soon as you start playing with global spacing options. Having to go back and fix every ERT because you changed a global option is not a good idea. 2. It requires the human to consistently add ERT to every list. Consistency is not best achieved by humans, unfortunately. This is best solved by making sure LyX doesn't spit out spurious "\n"'s everywhere... I've looked in the code, and this part does not seem beautiful at all. I won't even copy here some comments I read in the code; they were too awful! :-) Etienne -- Etienne M. Gagnon, Ph.D. SableCC:http://sablecc.org SableVM:http://sablevm.org signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
Bennett Helm wrote: [...] In the meantime, so your report doesn't get lost, may I suggest that you submit this as a bug [...] Done. See: http://bugzilla.lyx.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4993. Etienne -- Etienne M. Gagnon, Ph.D. SableCC:http://sablecc.org SableVM:http://sablevm.org signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
On 26.06.08, Christopher Reeve wrote: Sorry I can't help you, although personally I think the spacing looks just right. Maybe with your line spacing settings it looks funny? I agree thought that LyX does not seem to be very flexible here. It depends on whether a list should be a separate paragraph or part of the preceding (or including) paragraph. In LaTeX, the author can decide this choice by surrounding the list environment with blank lines or not. In LyX, there is no such choice, as * you must start a new paragraph to give it a different layout, * you cannot nest something in a Standard paragraph. This becomes an issue with DocumentSettingsText Layout: Separate Paragraphs with [*] Vertical space, as then additional vertical space is also inserted around lists. Things improve a bit if you set this option to [*] Indentation and load the package parskip in the LaTeX preamble instead. (Of course, you will miss the feedback in LyX then, but the printout is OK). I just wanted to add to your comments the following. When you start a display formula, if you hit return before doing so it adds an extra space. If you start the equation but don't hit return before no space is added. The problem is that in LyX you can't see the difference, so you only notice the large gap when you compile the document. Bit annoying right? True. Günter
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
Hi Christopher, Thanks a lot for the reply! You know... What would be neat is if we could edit the text in the View LaTeX Source window. Then it would be so simple to fix. I guess that Lyx will remain a less than ideal front-end to Latex. One can use it to write the first draft of a big document, but fine tuning will have to be done on the generated LaTeX code, which is a one-way thing; there's no good going-back to LyX, once the LaTeX is modified. Yes, I tested: if you import a list (LaTeX-LyX), the converter inserts a blank line before the list and removes the blank line after the list. This is surprising, given the alleged maturity of LyX. I sent a message to the devel list, but got no reply so far. I know a thing or two about languages and parsing, so I might have been interested to help writing a fix, but I guess that they're not interested. It's sad. :-( Etienne Christopher Reeve a écrit : Sorry I can't help you, although personally I think the spacing looks just right. Maybe with your line spacing settings it looks funny? I agree thought that LyX does not seem to be very flexible here. I just wanted to add to your comments the following. When you start a display formula, if you hit return before doing so it adds an extra space. If you start the equation but don't hit return before no space is added. The problem is that in LyX you can't see the difference, so you only notice the large gap when you compile the document. Bit annoying right? Chris. -- Etienne M. Gagnon, Ph.D. SableCC:http://sablecc.org SableVM:http://sablevm.org signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 3:00 PM, Etienne M. Gagnon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I sent a message to the devel list, but got no reply so far. I know a thing or two about languages and parsing, so I might have been interested to help writing a fix, but I guess that they're not interested. It's sad. :-( Etienne - This is the wrong conclusion to draw. If you look at the developer's list for the last week or so, you'll discover that it has been basically silent, period. It seems most developers are taking a break for a while, and I'd expect that after they come back they'll be more than happy to work with you on resolving this. In the meantime, so your report doesn't get lost, may I suggest that you submit this as a bug at: http://bugzilla.lyx.org/ Thanks. Bennett
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
Etienne M. Gagnon wrote: Thanks a lot for the reply! You know... What would be neat is if we could edit the text in the View LaTeX Source window. Then it would be so simple to fix. This requested periodically and discussed on the list. It would be very difficult for a variety of reasons. That said, a specific fix (such as allowing the user to suppress a linefeed that LyX inserts) can often be accomplished. What's needed is for someone to post this to the feature poll (http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/FeaturePoll), for others to indicate their support, and then for a developer to find time to do it. (I'm pretty sure the developers have a rather lengthy to-do list right now.) I guess that Lyx will remain a less than ideal front-end to Latex. One can use it to write the first draft of a big document, but fine tuning will have to be done on the generated LaTeX code, which is a one-way thing; there's no good going-back to LyX, once the LaTeX is modified. Yes, I tested: if you import a list (LaTeX-LyX), the converter inserts a blank line before the list and removes the blank line after the list. All front-ends to LaTeX are IMHO less than ideal. I happen to like LyX very much. As far as fine tuning goes, that's essentially unavoidable at times, although at least in my experience it is the exception rather than the rule. I used LyX to prepare an article for submission to a journal not long ago. The journal has very finicky (and obscure) formatting requirements for a few things, and they were difficult to do in LyX, even using ERT. To me, that is not the fault of LyX, it's the fault of the journal. (It's a good journal, though, so I did it; but I swore quite a bit.) /Paul
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
Bennett Helm wrote : I sent a message to the devel list, but got no reply so far. [...] I guess that they're not interested. [...] This is the wrong conclusion to draw. If you look at the developer's list for the last week or so, you'll discover that it has been basically silent, period. [...] Oh! I should have looked more carefully. Thanks for letting me know. In the meantime, so your report doesn't get lost, may I suggest that you submit this as a bug at: http://bugzilla.lyx.org/ Will do so. Thanks, Etienne PS: I subscribed to the ML, so you don't need to CC me anymore. -- Etienne M. Gagnon, Ph.D. SableCC:http://sablecc.org SableVM:http://sablevm.org signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
On 26.06.08, Christopher Reeve wrote: Sorry I can't help you, although personally I think the spacing looks just right. Maybe with your line spacing settings it looks funny? I agree thought that LyX does not seem to be very flexible here. It depends on whether a list should be a separate paragraph or part of the preceding (or including) paragraph. In LaTeX, the author can decide this choice by surrounding the list environment with blank lines or not. In LyX, there is no such choice, as * you must start a new paragraph to give it a different layout, * you cannot nest something in a Standard paragraph. This becomes an issue with DocumentSettingsText Layout: Separate Paragraphs with [*] Vertical space, as then additional vertical space is also inserted around lists. Things improve a bit if you set this option to [*] Indentation and load the package parskip in the LaTeX preamble instead. (Of course, you will miss the feedback in LyX then, but the printout is OK). I just wanted to add to your comments the following. When you start a display formula, if you hit return before doing so it adds an extra space. If you start the equation but don't hit return before no space is added. The problem is that in LyX you can't see the difference, so you only notice the large gap when you compile the document. Bit annoying right? True. Günter
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
Hi Christopher, Thanks a lot for the reply! You know... What would be neat is if we could edit the text in the View LaTeX Source window. Then it would be so simple to fix. I guess that Lyx will remain a less than ideal front-end to Latex. One can use it to write the first draft of a big document, but fine tuning will have to be done on the generated LaTeX code, which is a one-way thing; there's no good going-back to LyX, once the LaTeX is modified. Yes, I tested: if you import a list (LaTeX-LyX), the converter inserts a blank line before the list and removes the blank line after the list. This is surprising, given the alleged maturity of LyX. I sent a message to the devel list, but got no reply so far. I know a thing or two about languages and parsing, so I might have been interested to help writing a fix, but I guess that they're not interested. It's sad. :-( Etienne Christopher Reeve a écrit : Sorry I can't help you, although personally I think the spacing looks just right. Maybe with your line spacing settings it looks funny? I agree thought that LyX does not seem to be very flexible here. I just wanted to add to your comments the following. When you start a display formula, if you hit return before doing so it adds an extra space. If you start the equation but don't hit return before no space is added. The problem is that in LyX you can't see the difference, so you only notice the large gap when you compile the document. Bit annoying right? Chris. -- Etienne M. Gagnon, Ph.D. SableCC:http://sablecc.org SableVM:http://sablevm.org signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 3:00 PM, Etienne M. Gagnon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I sent a message to the devel list, but got no reply so far. I know a thing or two about languages and parsing, so I might have been interested to help writing a fix, but I guess that they're not interested. It's sad. :-( Etienne - This is the wrong conclusion to draw. If you look at the developer's list for the last week or so, you'll discover that it has been basically silent, period. It seems most developers are taking a break for a while, and I'd expect that after they come back they'll be more than happy to work with you on resolving this. In the meantime, so your report doesn't get lost, may I suggest that you submit this as a bug at: http://bugzilla.lyx.org/ Thanks. Bennett
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
Etienne M. Gagnon wrote: Thanks a lot for the reply! You know... What would be neat is if we could edit the text in the View LaTeX Source window. Then it would be so simple to fix. This requested periodically and discussed on the list. It would be very difficult for a variety of reasons. That said, a specific fix (such as allowing the user to suppress a linefeed that LyX inserts) can often be accomplished. What's needed is for someone to post this to the feature poll (http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/FeaturePoll), for others to indicate their support, and then for a developer to find time to do it. (I'm pretty sure the developers have a rather lengthy to-do list right now.) I guess that Lyx will remain a less than ideal front-end to Latex. One can use it to write the first draft of a big document, but fine tuning will have to be done on the generated LaTeX code, which is a one-way thing; there's no good going-back to LyX, once the LaTeX is modified. Yes, I tested: if you import a list (LaTeX-LyX), the converter inserts a blank line before the list and removes the blank line after the list. All front-ends to LaTeX are IMHO less than ideal. I happen to like LyX very much. As far as fine tuning goes, that's essentially unavoidable at times, although at least in my experience it is the exception rather than the rule. I used LyX to prepare an article for submission to a journal not long ago. The journal has very finicky (and obscure) formatting requirements for a few things, and they were difficult to do in LyX, even using ERT. To me, that is not the fault of LyX, it's the fault of the journal. (It's a good journal, though, so I did it; but I swore quite a bit.) /Paul
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
Bennett Helm wrote : I sent a message to the devel list, but got no reply so far. [...] I guess that they're not interested. [...] This is the wrong conclusion to draw. If you look at the developer's list for the last week or so, you'll discover that it has been basically silent, period. [...] Oh! I should have looked more carefully. Thanks for letting me know. In the meantime, so your report doesn't get lost, may I suggest that you submit this as a bug at: http://bugzilla.lyx.org/ Will do so. Thanks, Etienne PS: I subscribed to the ML, so you don't need to CC me anymore. -- Etienne M. Gagnon, Ph.D. SableCC:http://sablecc.org SableVM:http://sablevm.org signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
On 26.06.08, Christopher Reeve wrote: > Sorry I can't help you, although personally I think the spacing looks > just right. Maybe with your line spacing settings it looks funny? I > agree thought that LyX does not seem to be very flexible here. It depends on whether a list should be a separate paragraph or part of the preceding (or including) paragraph. In LaTeX, the author can decide this choice by surrounding the list environment with blank lines or not. In LyX, there is no such choice, as * you must start a new paragraph to give it a different layout, * you cannot nest something in a Standard paragraph. This becomes an issue with Document>Settings>Text Layout: Separate Paragraphs with [*] Vertical space, as then additional vertical space is also inserted around lists. Things improve a bit if you set this option to [*] Indentation and load the package parskip in the LaTeX preamble instead. (Of course, you will miss the feedback in LyX then, but the printout is OK). > I just wanted to add to your comments the following. > When you start a "display formula", if you hit return before doing so > it adds an extra space. If you start the equation but don't hit return > before no space is added. > The problem is that in LyX you can't see the difference, so you only > notice the large gap when you compile the document. > Bit annoying right? True. Günter
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
Hi Christopher, Thanks a lot for the reply! You know... What would be neat is if we could edit the text in the "View LaTeX Source" window. Then it would be so simple to fix. I guess that Lyx will remain a less than ideal front-end to Latex. One can use it to write the first draft of a big document, but fine tuning will have to be done on the generated LaTeX code, which is a one-way thing; there's no good going-back to LyX, once the LaTeX is modified. Yes, I tested: if you import a list (LaTeX->LyX), the converter inserts a blank line before the list and removes the blank line after the list. This is surprising, given the alleged maturity of LyX. I sent a message to the devel list, but got no reply so far. I know a thing or two about languages and parsing, so I might have been interested to help writing a fix, but I guess that they're not interested. It's sad. :-( Etienne Christopher Reeve a écrit : Sorry I can't help you, although personally I think the spacing looks just right. Maybe with your line spacing settings it looks funny? I agree thought that LyX does not seem to be very flexible here. I just wanted to add to your comments the following. When you start a "display formula", if you hit return before doing so it adds an extra space. If you start the equation but don't hit return before no space is added. The problem is that in LyX you can't see the difference, so you only notice the large gap when you compile the document. Bit annoying right? Chris. -- Etienne M. Gagnon, Ph.D. SableCC:http://sablecc.org SableVM:http://sablevm.org signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 3:00 PM, Etienne M. Gagnon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I sent a message to the devel list, but got no reply so far. I know a thing > or two about languages and parsing, so I might have been interested to help > writing a fix, but I guess that they're not interested. It's sad. :-( Etienne - This is the wrong conclusion to draw. If you look at the developer's list for the last week or so, you'll discover that it has been basically silent, period. It seems most developers are taking a break for a while, and I'd expect that after they come back they'll be more than happy to work with you on resolving this. In the meantime, so your report doesn't get lost, may I suggest that you submit this as a bug at: http://bugzilla.lyx.org/ Thanks. Bennett
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
Etienne M. Gagnon wrote: Thanks a lot for the reply! You know... What would be neat is if we could edit the text in the "View LaTeX Source" window. Then it would be so simple to fix. This requested periodically and discussed on the list. It would be very difficult for a variety of reasons. That said, a specific fix (such as allowing the user to suppress a linefeed that LyX inserts) can often be accomplished. What's needed is for someone to post this to the feature poll (http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/FeaturePoll), for others to indicate their support, and then for a developer to find time to do it. (I'm pretty sure the developers have a rather lengthy to-do list right now.) I guess that Lyx will remain a less than ideal front-end to Latex. One can use it to write the first draft of a big document, but fine tuning will have to be done on the generated LaTeX code, which is a one-way thing; there's no good going-back to LyX, once the LaTeX is modified. Yes, I tested: if you import a list (LaTeX->LyX), the converter inserts a blank line before the list and removes the blank line after the list. All front-ends to LaTeX are IMHO "less than ideal". I happen to like LyX very much. As far as fine tuning goes, that's essentially unavoidable at times, although at least in my experience it is the exception rather than the rule. I used LyX to prepare an article for submission to a journal not long ago. The journal has very finicky (and obscure) formatting requirements for a few things, and they were difficult to do in LyX, even using ERT. To me, that is not the fault of LyX, it's the fault of the journal. (It's a good journal, though, so I did it; but I swore quite a bit.) /Paul
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
Bennett Helm wrote : I sent a message to the devel list, but got no reply so far. [...] I guess that they're not interested. [...] This is the wrong conclusion to draw. If you look at the developer's list for the last week or so, you'll discover that it has been basically silent, period. [...] Oh! I should have looked more carefully. Thanks for letting me know. In the meantime, so your report doesn't get lost, may I suggest that you submit this as a bug at: http://bugzilla.lyx.org/ Will do so. Thanks, Etienne PS: I subscribed to the ML, so you don't need to CC me anymore. -- Etienne M. Gagnon, Ph.D. SableCC:http://sablecc.org SableVM:http://sablevm.org signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
Sorry I can't help you, although personally I think the spacing looks just right. Maybe with your line spacing settings it looks funny? I agree thought that LyX does not seem to be very flexible here. I just wanted to add to your comments the following. When you start a display formula, if you hit return before doing so it adds an extra space. If you start the equation but don't hit return before no space is added. The problem is that in LyX you can't see the difference, so you only notice the large gap when you compile the document. Bit annoying right? Chris.
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
Sorry I can't help you, although personally I think the spacing looks just right. Maybe with your line spacing settings it looks funny? I agree thought that LyX does not seem to be very flexible here. I just wanted to add to your comments the following. When you start a display formula, if you hit return before doing so it adds an extra space. If you start the equation but don't hit return before no space is added. The problem is that in LyX you can't see the difference, so you only notice the large gap when you compile the document. Bit annoying right? Chris.
Re: Blank Line Before \begin{itemize} in Geneterated LaTeX
Sorry I can't help you, although personally I think the spacing looks just right. Maybe with your line spacing settings it looks funny? I agree thought that LyX does not seem to be very flexible here. I just wanted to add to your comments the following. When you start a "display formula", if you hit return before doing so it adds an extra space. If you start the equation but don't hit return before no space is added. The problem is that in LyX you can't see the difference, so you only notice the large gap when you compile the document. Bit annoying right? Chris.
