Re: Lyx numbering equations
On Mar 24, 2015, at 9:36 PM, Jerry wrote: > On Mar 20, 2015, at 7:38 AM, Benedict Holland > wrote: > >> Equation labels should be human readable and make sense to you and the >> document. That is the proper use. If you are making them all a1, a2,... aN, >> I can't help you but typically there are not many equations in documents >> anyway. Each one is a bit different and requires a slightly different human >> readable note attached with a number that you don't care about. It seems >> perfect to me. > > Responding to Benedict and others... > > This assumes something that isn't necessarily true. It assumes one person's > writing style or habits or needs. Other people have dozens and hundreds of > equations in a document and having to invent meaningful labels for then is > truly a nuisance because equations don't naturally have names. The same goes > of course for figures and tables but at least in those cases one might pick a > few choice words from their captions. > > To make a meaningful name can easily take 10-20 words in many cases. One can > make shorter labels but then the meaning is lost so one may as well do A1, > A2, And short labels or longer descriptions as labels doesn't matter > that much when one is scrolling through a list of dozens or hundreds of > labels trying to remember what "Laplace distribution modified by AM after > substitution of cross-correlaction factor from AR process" means. And the > outline doesn't show display equations that aren't labelled. The only easily > meaningful thing is the equation itself, which is why one spends tons of time > looking around for the actual equation to make sure it's the right one. Thus > my argument for a graphical equation browser. > > Jerry (Bottom-posting on myself) I'll add that the Outline pane in any kind of normal configuration is so narrow that, again, only a bit of any label is visible. One could of course have it span the width of one's screen to see more of any longer labels, but this wastes enormous amounts of screen space (especially important to laptop users) and this exercise is further foiled by the Outline pane's annoying behavior of floating on top of the main document window at all times when it is detached. Jerry
Re: Lyx numbering equations
On Mar 20, 2015, at 7:38 AM, Benedict Holland wrote: > Equation labels should be human readable and make sense to you and the > document. That is the proper use. If you are making them all a1, a2,... aN, I > can't help you but typically there are not many equations in documents > anyway. Each one is a bit different and requires a slightly different human > readable note attached with a number that you don't care about. It seems > perfect to me. Responding to Benedict and others... This assumes something that isn't necessarily true. It assumes one person's writing style or habits or needs. Other people have dozens and hundreds of equations in a document and having to invent meaningful labels for then is truly a nuisance because equations don't naturally have names. The same goes of course for figures and tables but at least in those cases one might pick a few choice words from their captions. To make a meaningful name can easily take 10-20 words in many cases. One can make shorter labels but then the meaning is lost so one may as well do A1, A2, And short labels or longer descriptions as labels doesn't matter that much when one is scrolling through a list of dozens or hundreds of labels trying to remember what "Laplace distribution modified by AM after substitution of cross-correlaction factor from AR process" means. And the outline doesn't show display equations that aren't labelled. The only easily meaningful thing is the equation itself, which is why one spends tons of time looking around for the actual equation to make sure it's the right one. Thus my argument for a graphical equation browser. Jerry
Re: Lyx numbering equations
Hello,
So you want to label each of the lines in order? If you are in the math
environment, right click and select "Displayed Formula". That will center
the entire math block. Then you can right click and number the whole
formula or each line. It is true that it will not number each line 1-4 and
equally true that would most likely not be very difficult but it is equally
not very difficult to just number each line. It is then possible to label
each line as something like equation_1, equation_2, equation_3 for easy
reference. That way you know that equation_1 is the first equation for
equation *equation. *To reference these numbers, you set up a cross
reference based on the labels you chose. This is actually really nice. Say
for example that you wanted to insert an equation between 3 and 4. You
don't have to worry about changing labels or references. It just does it.
Again, I really don't understand what the desired outcome would be or why
something doesn't work. All Lyx is doing is setting up a nice front end and
dealing with the \ref{} and \label{} tags for you. The cases where it makes
sense to have every single line in a math group labeled separately are
fairly edge case in nature and the problem easily fixed with a few simple
right clicks.
Thanks,
~Ben
On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 11:32 AM, Robert Susmilch
wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 03/15/2015 09:59 PM, Hal Kierstead wrote:
> > This would be nice, and I think that I would use it, but I can
> > think of many other improvements that might be easier to implement.
> > For example: 1. LyX could remember the kind of reference associated
> > with a label. So instead of typing Lemma 14, I would only need to
> > type the reference to its label. LyX already knows this because
> > its suggestions for labels look like lem: … . I often forget
> > whether a reference is to a lemma or proposition, etc. 2. When I
> > know the label for a reference it would be nice to be able to enter
> > it directly from the keyboard (of course it would also be nice to
> > be able to enter its current number). 3. When I highlight a
> > reference in the pop-up window and then use the goto and return
> > buttons, it would be nice to still have the reference highlighted.
> > 4. The best thing, which is apparently very hard, would be to have
> > tex2lyx work perfectly on tex files that were originally created by
> > LyX, but have been modified by a coauthor without changing the
> > front matter.
> >
> > But it is a great app; I only wish my coauthors and students would
> > use it.
> >
> > Hal
>
> Dear Hal,
>
> I don't have much experience with Lyx right now, just beginning.
> However I can tell you this future student plans on utilizing it when
> I can!
> - --
> Respectfully,
>
> Robert Susmilch
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Re: Lyx numbering equations
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/15/2015 09:59 PM, Hal Kierstead wrote: > This would be nice, and I think that I would use it, but I can > think of many other improvements that might be easier to implement. > For example: 1. LyX could remember the kind of reference associated > with a label. So instead of typing Lemma 14, I would only need to > type the reference to its label. LyX already knows this because > its suggestions for labels look like lem: … . I often forget > whether a reference is to a lemma or proposition, etc. 2. When I > know the label for a reference it would be nice to be able to enter > it directly from the keyboard (of course it would also be nice to > be able to enter its current number). 3. When I highlight a > reference in the pop-up window and then use the goto and return > buttons, it would be nice to still have the reference highlighted. > 4. The best thing, which is apparently very hard, would be to have > tex2lyx work perfectly on tex files that were originally created by > LyX, but have been modified by a coauthor without changing the > front matter. > > But it is a great app; I only wish my coauthors and students would > use it. > > Hal Dear Hal, I don't have much experience with Lyx right now, just beginning. However I can tell you this future student plans on utilizing it when I can! - -- Respectfully, Robert Susmilch -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIbBAEBAgAGBQJVDD2LAAoJEJvhIiLnDQ8qo0wP+N7hRZ12b3RJ90Q4tB92bN1z MK2ygkN+2C6FzrsQ4fiI/Tg6WNKjXl3dMVEvmkwj12KAEwEKrzzxmwiAeBAXIhNB Bl7ha+QO3Gt4BKmHSgmCSkOygVF2uJqhb98EIvfokyAzgIEx1Itq7gfP7NTC1Ds0 9sE0skw7CEPoTzyTFHexCxObdoZ2nlHQ+fdW/LhiWoW/TaXg/Tf7qqmOB7GyYgAj MXhsL/KdZjXOc2DGpXDK9OVHZC2hrMwGD2+aW26v6Vtxp4/IvuRn5EEblKyh0DB0 3qrdVGim99t5iBE4ptBsYDsyry7l/g9X0lkUM+NMBbdo7tNosHJPXpoHzN53o0sl oJbiAwnC8pEzWwjuntIbZCFeA/Ffhlnvt/CTfDT+QQDHPqFefptzvclYhMUvnQdf DZ4NSWyiR20M49+iVa+z0heDfFPQiYpnGmD82AtOXZ1d8aHl01OHY4rIx7iKlh+H WovoSC9nhDSoYZBp1TaoyoYWDsUuspUY7r6qx75Puo3xHEHVejiUA5YA1T5yTn2T jRL00VJsvt7u+RzDMI3c0GaADjdeG67Frh9iBLPnnGpTVnB6iNefCdqZx2q0+vMY 7IH+/lDTgZ+fycCBDVYC+UxZ0fKIhskYHnNsY8oNONsED9CqmDnrzbFAWCWjIr3g VkveIloFUuyXQkSizlM= =t1+R -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Lyx numbering equations
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/15/2015 07:26 PM, David A Case wrote: > On Sat, Mar 14, 2015, Robert Susmilch wrote: >> >> I have Googled a way to refer to numbered equations in text, such >> as "See equation (3)" in Lyx but everything I read, whether from >> other users or wikis, suggests labeling the already numbered >> equations and then using the label to cross reference. >> >> This seems absurd > > This has been discussed before on this list. The requirement to > have a label makes good sense: how do you propose to refer to an > equation that does not have a label? Remember that its number will > change as equations are added or removed, whereas the label will > not change. > > It seems like you may wish to have a cross reference that says the > following: "refer to the *current* equation (3), and update the > number in the cross reference if the corresponding equation number > changes." This might be implemented by having LyX create a unique > but hidden label for every numbered equation, and providing some > sort of user interface to refer to it. > > For good reasons or bad, this is not the way LyX and latex work. > Note that numbered equations are no different in this respect than > are numbered sections, etc. > > dave case > Dear Dave, Yes I see this now about sections, I think that might be an oversight IMHO. I have been very busy with work, a two year old, and getting both myself and wife back to college after 10 and 15 years away from school respectively to write back to everyone. - -- Respectfully, Robert Susmilch -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJVDD1iAAoJEJvhIiLnDQ8q+DoQAJeFEJSLN6qpRY7bU6731KF8 tzWM1eWmZMixNRco1CmTE22Paj0+hULSsU1RaWzO1TW0FSJd++v0A09Vw3OmF/U6 p2Sx2IglsekJ6m4Lpiqm8FbRRM1L8XzLJovXTNXKG+6wlDN2R+3mnX79SN6DaRNL oHsM6eoJ/hHFXsbn6YmMeTNcdAkavLHWjiKP3wMGaI3phlttjysp/B/Ugwgbrgja AVWViTdUcuHlFa2puK7MsrkqLKeh0vMKfTkayj/HokLKcIcHgWERPYBEwz2ABGEU QFRHsKrN4VWtYLfWPzaYFdNFSlj0VMElJSzn4vpizMaSnGpD9vMQ1SY4vxbDTEp5 OTAM2GN9OzVaeh5Om7D6OH4uR/QVGNc6OVe6flBEpegoWYTO4bpO89+QefX3q9hn K8TdiLR3Ot3BX95NfJL2uccBR8qDyb4ffYgRF7xcApRpIA4utEiXrEXwstByM1hd cihsyyg3sE4tTfyRxLVz3cugdHbr5hpxboE/MSdGP62DRE4Z9H12aD+/8qR48+5/ YNBpc1abPAF16PaURSKB7PtGbgupCQkLLofvK9ruhfBKPR32DT+Y0md0bULuoP1o bI6mVGmE2jn81uBcRqPddav3JxM8C7vocbTB6gRDon7PtVpLmzdOSxOCT+EQcI7n vM1OIWMVoMBXMoLmoumI =Dxu4 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Lyx numbering equations
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/15/2015 02:19 AM, Scott Kostyshak wrote: > On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 12:56 PM, Robert Susmilch > wrote: >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 >> >> Dear List, >> >> I have Googled a way to refer to numbered equations in text, such >> as "See equation (3)" in Lyx but everything I read, whether from >> other users or wikis, suggests labeling the already numbered >> equations and then using the label to cross reference. >> >> This seems absurd given that Lyx purports to free you to write >> and not micromanage things like this. The tutorial goes on and on >> about using citations, bibliography, automatic section and >> chapter title numbering that takes care of itself. If I can >> number an equation and it's automatic that means the equation >> numbering can / will change as they are moved about, added or >> deleted, etc. >> >> So can this be done? Have I failed Google 101? I'm running Lyx >> 2.1.3. If it can't be done then really, what's the point? > > Dear Robert, > > If I understand correctly, you want to reference an equation > without specifying a label. But how would LyX know which equation > you want to reference? > > Best, > > Scott > Dear Scott, Why, by the special numbered equation number I can view in my outline. Lyx CLEARLY knows where they are as you can click on them and it takes one to them in the document. Also if you enter another equation before a currently numbered equation it correctly numbers BOTH equations, so internally it is keeping track of them. I did notice that you can't reference sections in the table of contents without a label. I'm a rookie so didn't see this the first time, but it seems like an oversight to not have a drop-down box to select these kinds of things in cross-reference. For example, in the cross-reference dialog, select a label, or show a category of "internal labels" such as Table of Contents or Equations. - -- Respectfully, Robert Susmilch -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJVDD1FAAoJEJvhIiLnDQ8qM0wQAKR15jVLOgq3VbaWRu/qSsG+ fQFcrH+yB0+8CLnCGg3Pkzyk3nAb5I9sJRg9vrNBI4RgO/ZCPqgzTt1rf1iotHAJ bTVpia1ipKPEfGzeT2+Om5dUEMGXnyTfLNG8U0kw7GC6gcRyQYr0GIUMK6pojY8K MdC9RgDAtc7dBg3I8BaGk3f7mrwdWku3191lQ4KQexkqr3SQHZG6wfSaTV5IUCg4 PBNjt2uAeF29DNvZ/DKt/1ab7TNXehiI2yEarOS0eWUXVyWUHV3hsEdUudeHQ8u6 zpnGDhNrzcYcX22Q3YKbVCoZYIap7xABFH9JphUvDjfSC4dUoYywdfLr67pUi0ck wWLNT1K/XCJR5QpGQbquzrpke7fK7S0/6t/gLddiNdEZi37jtVmERBwiiT7ly8vp 1Oh+2uXedRCtPM6fluTk/1WA8+PI7xM3dgjfPcyA2DFRhKibYr383Sh3wx65gykC cJ40K+kA8fbS5Mmm18U13ivyHt2z8epbFDYCvcJbieUa6ZqdblY1b8oJous1DUEs QkvxItzs6bjTUvJfg8d33jf0MAu4eYL5KhVcI1iv/61sn+3v9MrgTDGFYxQXbWT7 S/5+KaXtfWVKWltqQdn/DvMO/ry7UdQNk+00kEIvjybdxwkFKiq4fQ+sDtseTa7p XPxt8wNHYsrovVKnZnIT =wnW1 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Lyx numbering equations
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/20/2015 09:38 AM, Benedict Holland wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I am going to take a strong line on this one and say it works as > designed and the design is very well done. The reason for is it > that you do have references and labels, under the table, that lyx > is managing for you. You have an equation, you number the > question, you label the equation, and you never have to worry about > it again. The reference automatically updates with the removal or > addition of equations prior to the referenced one. The entire point > of the labeling system is to make the numbering decoupled from > where an equation appears in the document and to that extent, it > performs very well. After reading various comments I actually have > no idea what the OP would like or what other people are > suggesting. > > Equation labels should be human readable and make sense to you and > the document. That is the proper use. If you are making them all > a1, a2,... aN, I can't help you but typically there are not many > equations in documents anyway. Each one is a bit different and > requires a slightly different human readable note attached with a > number that you don't care about. It seems perfect to me. > > ~Ben Dear Ben, I haven't used Lyx for long, but for years and years have heard about Latex so was excited to find Lyx. Especially since I'm going back to school. My issue is simple (I think). Let's take an example (https://www.dropbox.com/s/k19be7n6uuegw1n/Numbered%20Equations%20Exampl e.pdf?dl=0), much like a text book in math or science uses many equations and refers to them by number (since you can have multiple variations of a "named" equation). I have copied and pasted this section out of a larger document, so the number equations have shifted back to 1, 2, 3, etc. However it's simply an example of what I'm thinking. - -- Respectfully, Robert Susmilch -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJVDDz+AAoJEJvhIiLnDQ8qL30P/RM6rNDyRzdi4qW2QgLiv3Yq 3jus8f23ai2IHdyyfeedZcKe7pf2ge78lOG118zZbazJko7iLFV49ioHjqgVODFz r60Icj1toefwtr14u5CJfnFoM/kwJIgbTmXwhmvYS6y+6xeuWovH78XMrdkqVeS/ nQLrWm4XTgkXPJh7nMZGe0i0NzV5DhaCaAuOsud93QwL2FXR9woULmD/PQ3bmwOZ iovxN4Ag1ElBzPhpFnDmJFXv8B1RoQRPq2+iHA7EuOf62T4GiGncxW2eKnRL3llQ mF99ok0PQ6jW3NDW7NgWTGSudZJJX4OEikc3FFdHVwQtsAi7vehKe905/1IS+TE8 izj5khuBxgAUyfiVxKkbp5Y8sr6cPsCuOcposcQucU2mXhMMYJHqZhBVan7wKBOf EaAcgAZsc+HRbI2tWkKaR8YNCDgawrLmQsXzrCBXShQkGmmEDfg+HTeodzKJKjir 49DM3fKP1lWCDIHZ0iLpaAyP/xPOWZK9KA0Tk8G4RAd97E4u6O72IvL5Kr5boXeL V1exSmJ7zcqP6esh4qWHkQXURt20h1PZeQlnGSZUZFFoOEMmDzvQd+vlHx2/Nwhi hsm/X6GEBu95QAvY3uBGpfGLIL1u7C1JCODsMATlRKszlWNBbvslICczfs+GkWHn 4Kcfn//eqgeZm6Pr/TxG =Lh1w -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Lyx numbering equations
On 03/20/2015 03:44 AM, Jerry wrote: And, not trivially, FullWrite had a _graphical_ equation browser, a window of all your (filtered) stand-alone equations, numbered or not, in a scrollable window. Now _that_ was neat. Note that all equations are listed in the Outline pane, so it is easy to search for them. The general issue about "label-less references" is one that has been raised before, and it is on various people's radars. It's not impossible, by any means. It just needs someone who cares enough about it to find the time to do it. It doesn't bother me, so I choose to put my time elsewhere. Richard
Re: Lyx numbering equations
Hi everyone, I am going to take a strong line on this one and say it works as designed and the design is very well done. The reason for is it that you do have references and labels, under the table, that lyx is managing for you. You have an equation, you number the question, you label the equation, and you never have to worry about it again. The reference automatically updates with the removal or addition of equations prior to the referenced one. The entire point of the labeling system is to make the numbering decoupled from where an equation appears in the document and to that extent, it performs very well. After reading various comments I actually have no idea what the OP would like or what other people are suggesting. Equation labels should be human readable and make sense to you and the document. That is the proper use. If you are making them all a1, a2,... aN, I can't help you but typically there are not many equations in documents anyway. Each one is a bit different and requires a slightly different human readable note attached with a number that you don't care about. It seems perfect to me. ~Ben On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 9:23 AM, John Kane wrote: > Fullwrite was abandoned about 1995 or 2000, sob. I was not as crazy about > it as Jerry since it was a bugger when doing tables but compared to > something like MS Word it was heaven. > > On 20 March 2015 at 04:55, Michael Berger wrote: > >> On 03/20/2015 08:44 AM, Jerry wrote: >> >>> On Mar 14, 2015, at 9:56 AM, Robert Susmilch >>> wrote: >>> >>> This seems absurd given that Lyx purports to free you to write and not micromanage things like this. The tutorial goes on and on about using citations, bibliography, automatic section and chapter title numbering that takes care of itself. If I can number an equation and it's automatic that means the equation numbering can / will change as they are moved about, added or deleted, etc. >>> I agree, but would stop short of "absurd" and simply say "awkward," >>> "clumsy," and then I'll stop. It does work. I believe that Microsoft Word >>> and Mathematica require the same sort of tedious labeling, and those are >>> not necessarily good models. I know for a fact that this problem can be >>> handled better because I used the long-gone and much-loved FullWrite >>> Professional for about 10 years, from 1988 to 1998, and it did not require >>> labeling of anything. You simply inserted, as a reference, the current >>> equation number and then FullWrite automatically kept everything up to >>> date. It was just that simple. >>> And, not trivially, FullWrite had a _graphical_ equation >>> browser, a window of all your (filtered) stand-alone equations, numbered or >>> not, in a scrollable window. Now _that_ was neat. I think I have filed a >>> feature request for LyX but I don't expect anything to happen for a long >>> time. However, LyX has an option to render equations on-screen already >>> (Instant Preview) so it seems that the hard part of a graphical browser has >>> already been done. >>> With a graphical browser, one could assign nonsense labels (AA, >>> AB, AC, ... or just 1, 2, 3, ...) and use the graphical browser to find the >>> one to which you want to insert a reference and just click on the image. >>> That's what you do anyway, only instead of a dedicated graphical browser, >>> you just scroll around in your main document window until you find the >>> equation you want to reference, and that's not efficient or fun. >>> >>> >>> and then... >>> On Mar 15, 2015, at 5:26 PM, David A Case >>> wrote: >>> >>> On Sat, Mar 14, 2015, Robert Susmilch wrote: > I have Googled a way to refer to numbered equations in text, such as > "See equation (3)" in Lyx but everything I read, whether from other > users or wikis, suggests labeling the already numbered equations and > then using the label to cross reference. > > This seems absurd > This has been discussed before on this list. The requirement to have a label makes good sense: how do you propose to refer to an equation that does not have a label? Remember that its number will change as equations are added or removed, whereas the label will not change. It seems like you may wish to have a cross reference that says the following: "refer to the *current* equation (3), and update the number in the cross reference if the corresponding equation number changes." This might be implemented by having LyX create a unique but hidden label for every numbered equation, and providing some sort of user interface to refer to it. >>> Nice answer. >>> For good reasons or bad, this is not the way LyX and latex work. >>> Why do you say this? You just proposed a solution to use the LyX/Latex >>> underpinnings to do that very thing. And that's probably the way FullWrite >>> did it. >>> >>>Note that numbered equations a
Re: Lyx numbering equations
Fullwrite was abandoned about 1995 or 2000, sob. I was not as crazy about it as Jerry since it was a bugger when doing tables but compared to something like MS Word it was heaven. On 20 March 2015 at 04:55, Michael Berger wrote: > On 03/20/2015 08:44 AM, Jerry wrote: > >> On Mar 14, 2015, at 9:56 AM, Robert Susmilch wrote: >> >> This seems absurd given that Lyx purports to free you to write and not >>> micromanage things like this. The tutorial goes on and on about using >>> citations, bibliography, automatic section and chapter title numbering >>> that takes care of itself. If I can number an equation and it's >>> automatic that means the equation numbering can / will change as they >>> are moved about, added or deleted, etc. >>> >> I agree, but would stop short of "absurd" and simply say "awkward," >> "clumsy," and then I'll stop. It does work. I believe that Microsoft Word >> and Mathematica require the same sort of tedious labeling, and those are >> not necessarily good models. I know for a fact that this problem can be >> handled better because I used the long-gone and much-loved FullWrite >> Professional for about 10 years, from 1988 to 1998, and it did not require >> labeling of anything. You simply inserted, as a reference, the current >> equation number and then FullWrite automatically kept everything up to >> date. It was just that simple. >> And, not trivially, FullWrite had a _graphical_ equation browser, >> a window of all your (filtered) stand-alone equations, numbered or not, in >> a scrollable window. Now _that_ was neat. I think I have filed a feature >> request for LyX but I don't expect anything to happen for a long time. >> However, LyX has an option to render equations on-screen already (Instant >> Preview) so it seems that the hard part of a graphical browser has already >> been done. >> With a graphical browser, one could assign nonsense labels (AA, >> AB, AC, ... or just 1, 2, 3, ...) and use the graphical browser to find the >> one to which you want to insert a reference and just click on the image. >> That's what you do anyway, only instead of a dedicated graphical browser, >> you just scroll around in your main document window until you find the >> equation you want to reference, and that's not efficient or fun. >> >> >> and then... >> On Mar 15, 2015, at 5:26 PM, David A Case >> wrote: >> >> On Sat, Mar 14, 2015, Robert Susmilch wrote: >>> I have Googled a way to refer to numbered equations in text, such as "See equation (3)" in Lyx but everything I read, whether from other users or wikis, suggests labeling the already numbered equations and then using the label to cross reference. This seems absurd >>> This has been discussed before on this list. The requirement to have a >>> label makes good sense: how do you propose to refer to an equation that >>> does not have a label? Remember that its number will change as equations >>> are added or removed, whereas the label will not change. >>> >>> It seems like you may wish to have a cross reference that says the >>> following: "refer to the *current* equation (3), and update the number in >>> the cross reference if the corresponding equation number changes." This >>> might be implemented by having LyX create a unique but hidden label for >>> every numbered equation, and providing some sort of user interface to >>> refer to it. >>> >> Nice answer. >> >>> For good reasons or bad, this is not the way LyX and latex work. >>> >> Why do you say this? You just proposed a solution to use the LyX/Latex >> underpinnings to do that very thing. And that's probably the way FullWrite >> did it. >> >>Note that >>> numbered equations are no different in this respect than are numbered >>> sections, etc. >>> >>> dave case >>> >>> Finally (I'll file a ticket for this in due course), a simple >> improvement of the current system would be to display the labels with more >> characters than are currently used; currently, so few characters are >> displayed that one quickly becomes confused about which equation the label >> belongs to. >> >> Jerry >> > > Dear Jerry and followers of this very issue, > personally I am happy with LyX's philosophy and think we should not > over-emphasize such detail. > Is adding a label really such tremendous effort? > However, I see the point of some users. > But could it be that the implementation of "this simple improvement" turns > out not to be so very simple? > (see above: For good reasons or bad, this is not the way LyX and latex > work) > > Now, please have a look at the screen-shot attached. > It shows an excerpt of André Miede's excellent "classicthesis". > He created a new type of reference (Insert > Custom Insets > CT-auto > cross-reference) which can show labels of more characters / words next to > the number. > I know, this is not exactly what is being discussed here but it certainly > goes in that direction. > > And last but not least: user
Re: Lyx numbering equations
On 03/20/2015 08:44 AM, Jerry wrote: On Mar 14, 2015, at 9:56 AM, Robert Susmilch wrote: This seems absurd given that Lyx purports to free you to write and not micromanage things like this. The tutorial goes on and on about using citations, bibliography, automatic section and chapter title numbering that takes care of itself. If I can number an equation and it's automatic that means the equation numbering can / will change as they are moved about, added or deleted, etc. I agree, but would stop short of "absurd" and simply say "awkward," "clumsy," and then I'll stop. It does work. I believe that Microsoft Word and Mathematica require the same sort of tedious labeling, and those are not necessarily good models. I know for a fact that this problem can be handled better because I used the long-gone and much-loved FullWrite Professional for about 10 years, from 1988 to 1998, and it did not require labeling of anything. You simply inserted, as a reference, the current equation number and then FullWrite automatically kept everything up to date. It was just that simple. And, not trivially, FullWrite had a _graphical_ equation browser, a window of all your (filtered) stand-alone equations, numbered or not, in a scrollable window. Now _that_ was neat. I think I have filed a feature request for LyX but I don't expect anything to happen for a long time. However, LyX has an option to render equations on-screen already (Instant Preview) so it seems that the hard part of a graphical browser has already been done. With a graphical browser, one could assign nonsense labels (AA, AB, AC, ... or just 1, 2, 3, ...) and use the graphical browser to find the one to which you want to insert a reference and just click on the image. That's what you do anyway, only instead of a dedicated graphical browser, you just scroll around in your main document window until you find the equation you want to reference, and that's not efficient or fun. and then... On Mar 15, 2015, at 5:26 PM, David A Case wrote: On Sat, Mar 14, 2015, Robert Susmilch wrote: I have Googled a way to refer to numbered equations in text, such as "See equation (3)" in Lyx but everything I read, whether from other users or wikis, suggests labeling the already numbered equations and then using the label to cross reference. This seems absurd This has been discussed before on this list. The requirement to have a label makes good sense: how do you propose to refer to an equation that does not have a label? Remember that its number will change as equations are added or removed, whereas the label will not change. It seems like you may wish to have a cross reference that says the following: "refer to the *current* equation (3), and update the number in the cross reference if the corresponding equation number changes." This might be implemented by having LyX create a unique but hidden label for every numbered equation, and providing some sort of user interface to refer to it. Nice answer. For good reasons or bad, this is not the way LyX and latex work. Why do you say this? You just proposed a solution to use the LyX/Latex underpinnings to do that very thing. And that's probably the way FullWrite did it. Note that numbered equations are no different in this respect than are numbered sections, etc. dave case Finally (I'll file a ticket for this in due course), a simple improvement of the current system would be to display the labels with more characters than are currently used; currently, so few characters are displayed that one quickly becomes confused about which equation the label belongs to. Jerry Dear Jerry and followers of this very issue, personally I am happy with LyX's philosophy and think we should not over-emphasize such detail. Is adding a label really such tremendous effort? However, I see the point of some users. But could it be that the implementation of "this simple improvement" turns out not to be so very simple? (see above: For good reasons or bad, this is not the way LyX and latex work) Now, please have a look at the screen-shot attached. It shows an excerpt of André Miede's excellent "classicthesis". He created a new type of reference (Insert > Custom Insets > CT-auto cross-reference) which can show labels of more characters / words next to the number. I know, this is not exactly what is being discussed here but it certainly goes in that direction. And last but not least: users who prefer FullWrite Professional's features over those of Lyx may stick to it. Cheers! Michael
Re: Lyx numbering equations
On Mar 14, 2015, at 9:56 AM, Robert Susmilch wrote: > This seems absurd given that Lyx purports to free you to write and not > micromanage things like this. The tutorial goes on and on about using > citations, bibliography, automatic section and chapter title numbering > that takes care of itself. If I can number an equation and it's > automatic that means the equation numbering can / will change as they > are moved about, added or deleted, etc. I agree, but would stop short of "absurd" and simply say "awkward," "clumsy," and then I'll stop. It does work. I believe that Microsoft Word and Mathematica require the same sort of tedious labeling, and those are not necessarily good models. I know for a fact that this problem can be handled better because I used the long-gone and much-loved FullWrite Professional for about 10 years, from 1988 to 1998, and it did not require labeling of anything. You simply inserted, as a reference, the current equation number and then FullWrite automatically kept everything up to date. It was just that simple. And, not trivially, FullWrite had a _graphical_ equation browser, a window of all your (filtered) stand-alone equations, numbered or not, in a scrollable window. Now _that_ was neat. I think I have filed a feature request for LyX but I don't expect anything to happen for a long time. However, LyX has an option to render equations on-screen already (Instant Preview) so it seems that the hard part of a graphical browser has already been done. With a graphical browser, one could assign nonsense labels (AA, AB, AC, ... or just 1, 2, 3, ...) and use the graphical browser to find the one to which you want to insert a reference and just click on the image. That's what you do anyway, only instead of a dedicated graphical browser, you just scroll around in your main document window until you find the equation you want to reference, and that's not efficient or fun. and then... On Mar 15, 2015, at 5:26 PM, David A Case wrote: > On Sat, Mar 14, 2015, Robert Susmilch wrote: >> >> I have Googled a way to refer to numbered equations in text, such as >> "See equation (3)" in Lyx but everything I read, whether from other >> users or wikis, suggests labeling the already numbered equations and >> then using the label to cross reference. >> >> This seems absurd > > This has been discussed before on this list. The requirement to have a > label makes good sense: how do you propose to refer to an equation that > does not have a label? Remember that its number will change as equations > are added or removed, whereas the label will not change. > > It seems like you may wish to have a cross reference that says the > following: "refer to the *current* equation (3), and update the number in > the cross reference if the corresponding equation number changes." This > might be implemented by having LyX create a unique but hidden label for > every numbered equation, and providing some sort of user interface to > refer to it. Nice answer. > > For good reasons or bad, this is not the way LyX and latex work. Why do you say this? You just proposed a solution to use the LyX/Latex underpinnings to do that very thing. And that's probably the way FullWrite did it. > Note that > numbered equations are no different in this respect than are numbered > sections, etc. > > dave case > Finally (I'll file a ticket for this in due course), a simple improvement of the current system would be to display the labels with more characters than are currently used; currently, so few characters are displayed that one quickly becomes confused about which equation the label belongs to. Jerry
Re: Lyx numbering equations
This would be nice, and I think that I would use it, but I can think of many other improvements that might be easier to implement. For example: 1. LyX could remember the kind of reference associated with a label. So instead of typing Lemma 14, I would only need to type the reference to its label. LyX already knows this because its suggestions for labels look like lem: … . I often forget whether a reference is to a lemma or proposition, etc. 2. When I know the label for a reference it would be nice to be able to enter it directly from the keyboard (of course it would also be nice to be able to enter its current number). 3. When I highlight a reference in the pop-up window and then use the goto and return buttons, it would be nice to still have the reference highlighted. 4. The best thing, which is apparently very hard, would be to have tex2lyx work perfectly on tex files that were originally created by LyX, but have been modified by a coauthor without changing the front matter. But it is a great app; I only wish my coauthors and students would use it. Hal > On Mar 15, 2015, at 5:26 PM, David A Case wrote: > > On Sat, Mar 14, 2015, Robert Susmilch wrote: >> >> I have Googled a way to refer to numbered equations in text, such as >> "See equation (3)" in Lyx but everything I read, whether from other >> users or wikis, suggests labeling the already numbered equations and >> then using the label to cross reference. >> >> This seems absurd > > This has been discussed before on this list. The requirement to have a > label makes good sense: how do you propose to refer to an equation that > does not have a label? Remember that its number will change as equations > are added or removed, whereas the label will not change. > > It seems like you may wish to have a cross reference that says the > following: "refer to the *current* equation (3), and update the number in > the cross reference if the corresponding equation number changes." This > might be implemented by having LyX create a unique but hidden label for > every numbered equation, and providing some sort of user interface to > refer to it. > > For good reasons or bad, this is not the way LyX and latex work. Note that > numbered equations are no different in this respect than are numbered > sections, etc. > > dave case >
Re: Lyx numbering equations
On Sat, Mar 14, 2015, Robert Susmilch wrote: > > I have Googled a way to refer to numbered equations in text, such as > "See equation (3)" in Lyx but everything I read, whether from other > users or wikis, suggests labeling the already numbered equations and > then using the label to cross reference. > > This seems absurd This has been discussed before on this list. The requirement to have a label makes good sense: how do you propose to refer to an equation that does not have a label? Remember that its number will change as equations are added or removed, whereas the label will not change. It seems like you may wish to have a cross reference that says the following: "refer to the *current* equation (3), and update the number in the cross reference if the corresponding equation number changes." This might be implemented by having LyX create a unique but hidden label for every numbered equation, and providing some sort of user interface to refer to it. For good reasons or bad, this is not the way LyX and latex work. Note that numbered equations are no different in this respect than are numbered sections, etc. dave case
Re: Lyx numbering equations
Robert Susmilch susmilch.com> writes: > Dear List, > > I have Googled a way to refer to numbered equations in text, such as > "See equation (3)" in Lyx but everything I read, whether from other > users or wikis, suggests labeling the already numbered equations and > then using the label to cross reference. > > This seems absurd given that Lyx purports to free you to write and not > micromanage things like this. The tutorial goes on and on about using > citations, bibliography, automatic section and chapter title numbering > that takes care of itself. If I can number an equation and it's > automatic that means the equation numbering can / will change as they > are moved about, added or deleted, etc. > > So can this be done? Have I failed Google 101? I'm running Lyx 2.1.3. > If it can't be done then really, what's the point? > > Respectfully, > > Robert Susmilch Robert, I would not say that it "cannot be done" (I have no idea of rewriting code). But I think numbering equations and referencing these equations to in the body text of the document are two entirely different things by comprehension. And if you could agree to this you might as well be prepared to agree that things are just fine as they are. Cheers and a big Bravo to LyX and its developers! Michael
Re: Lyx numbering equations
On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 12:56 PM, Robert Susmilch wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Dear List, > > I have Googled a way to refer to numbered equations in text, such as > "See equation (3)" in Lyx but everything I read, whether from other > users or wikis, suggests labeling the already numbered equations and > then using the label to cross reference. > > This seems absurd given that Lyx purports to free you to write and not > micromanage things like this. The tutorial goes on and on about using > citations, bibliography, automatic section and chapter title numbering > that takes care of itself. If I can number an equation and it's > automatic that means the equation numbering can / will change as they > are moved about, added or deleted, etc. > > So can this be done? Have I failed Google 101? I'm running Lyx 2.1.3. > If it can't be done then really, what's the point? Dear Robert, If I understand correctly, you want to reference an equation without specifying a label. But how would LyX know which equation you want to reference? Best, Scott
