Moderator Note -was- Re: [bcab] End of Freedom?
Hi All; while I (to be sure) really do find this topic tremendously interesting, it's wandering very much on the boundaries of serious off-topic land. :) so please, if you can incorporate some sort of relevant Mac / iPhone / iPod / iPad / Voiceover / general Apple content then by all means please do continue! -Otherwise, unfortunately, we'll need to move on to something more relevant for the list. K? Thanks so much for reading and thanks for the really great read thus far!… -Y'all rock!… Smiles, Cara :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: [bcab] End of Freedom?
Hi Simon, Why are you suggesting that she install JAWS 10 first? Just curious. Thanks, Donna On Jun 7, 2010, at 6:00 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote: > You'd be crazy to go vista over windows 7. > Windows 7 is far better than vista. Put seven on and then make sure the > User access control is turned off and install jaws 10 first then install > jaws 11. > > > -Original Message- > From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kimberly thurman > Sent: Monday, 7 June 2010 2:12 a.m. > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: [bcab] End of Freedom? > > This is good to know. I may just suck it up and put it on the Vista > machine. > On Jun 6, 2010, at 4:54 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote: > >> Interesting, >> >> I've got windows 7 on 5 different machines, including vm fusion on my >> mac book pro. >> And I only had issues on the first install with the jaws video >> intercept not installing correctly. >> >> Other than that, I've had no trouble with windows 7 and jaws playing >> together nicely. >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin >> Sent: Sunday, 6 June 2010 5:17 a.m. >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: [bcab] End of Freedom? >> >> Just to add to this, this week I inherited a PC that my husband isn't >> using. It's a fairly new computer running Windows 7, and I've been >> trying to install JAWS on it since Wednesday, with absolutely no luck >> at all, and this has included a one hour call to FS tech support. In >> the interim, I've been running System Access over the internet, just >> to have some speech on the machine. Having had this experience, I >> would be hard-pressed ever to recommend JAWS over simply getting a Mac >> again. I hope Apple does give FS a run for their money. If this is >> the best FS can do, they deserve to lose out, whether to Apple, or to a > group like Serotek. >> Cheers, >> Donna >> On Jun 5, 2010, at 12:42 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote: >> >>> Off topic, but I feel everyone will be interested especially those >>> people >> who run Fusion on their Macs. >>> >>> Begin forwarded message: >>> >>>> From: "Ibrahim Gucukoglu" >>>> Date: June 5, 2010 9:36:33 AM GMT+01:00 >>>> To: "Kawal Gucukoglu" >>>> Subject: Fw: [bcab] End of Freedom? >>>> >>>> >>>> - Original Message - From: "Colin r. Howard" >>>> >>>> To: ; ; >>>> ; ; >>>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 1:30 AM >>>> Subject: [bcab] End of Freedom? >>>> >>>> >>>>> Greetings, >>>>> >>>>> I am posting the main text from a thread just seen on the Blind >>>>> Audio List which I am surprised not to have seen on the BCAB or >>>>> AccessUK >> groups. >>>>> >>>>> Ought we to give much credence to this? >>>>> >>>>> I, for one, would welcome any comments from Sight and Sound. >>>>> >>>>> From: "Otto Zamora" >>>>> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 05:44:14 -0400 >>>>> >>>>> Morning, >>>>> >>>>> In an advocate meeting yesterday, the subject came up reference >>>>> Freedom Scientific, the company that among other things sports JFw. >>>>> Because the company is in the state of Florida, it came up on a >>>>> flag by an analyst. >>>>> Seems this company is having bad money troubles, not surprising >>>>> given the economy, but talk is that they are now looking to sell >>>>> off some of their division, mainly their JFW area. >>>>> I am not sure who if anyone will buy this division, considering >>>>> that there is an entity now selling a fully integrated package for only > $700. >>>>> Besides a comprehensive screen reader, if the user chooses to get >>>>> the package, there is a browser, along with a customed and fully >>>>> accessible web sites, word processing, and E mail. >>>>> all of this can apparently be accessed either on line, or as >>>>> individual program. >>>>> ad to that, the entertainment mogill, and you have a powerful to
Re: [bcab] End of Freedom?
Very good poitns. Donna On Jun 7, 2010, at 3:27 AM, Gary Readfern-Gray wrote: > While I agree with many of the Sentiments expressed in this thread > and, for the record, am a proud iMac owner, if this is true this has > got to be a sad sad day hasn't it? > > Which of us didn't start off on a pc with windows using a pro > screenreader such as Jaws or Windoweyes or Hal? Which of us have not > relied on such a screenreader for our jobs, if we're lucky enough to > have one? Which of us was not prevented from accessing the web until > Jfw invented the concept of the virtual pc cursor? (well actually, I > think it was PW WebSpeak but that's a different story). > > How would you be feeling if Apple decided that it no longer made > economic sense to support Voiceover going forward? Do you think they > have given us Voiceover because they want to be nice to us or because > it's cool or innovative? No, it's because they want to gain the exact > same strangle hold on the Government and educational market that > Freedom have had, and why not! > > So what I'm saying is this. It takes skilled professionals to develop > access technology products and while I don't agree with Jfw's pricing > model, we've all got to put food on the table somehow and personally, > I'd rather not lose skilled access tech product developers to the > banks or the oil companies or to whoever can pay them for their > skills. Why, because it impoverishes the Access tech industry. > > Brian's right, just because there are several free screenreaders out > there it doesn't mean that they fully support office or other > applications that people may need. I've been struggling with Voiceover > and both ProTools and Logic over the weekend, Let's see how ProTools > accessibility compares with the Sonar Jaws scripts when it arrives. > > So What we need is Great accessibility on all platforms and anything > that jeopardises that has got to be a bad thing. > > On 6/7/10, Bryan Smart wrote: >> Window Eyes will get the Jaws refugees. They are the only other professional >> screen reader for Windows. System Access, NVDA, and friends are not >> professional. I know that lots of people that spend most of their time in a >> web browser and chatting with friends on IM will disagree, but professionals >> need advanced support for Excel, support for Word that goes beyond just >> reading raw text, etc. >> >> And, actually, Window Eyes will be in the same boat in only a year or two. >> You might not like high prices for pro level Windows screen readers, but >> that's what it takes on Windows to make something pro. Windows screen >> reading is a constant battle to keep supporting programs from version to >> version, as little changes in the program break your screen reader's >> previously great support. The screen reader companies make a lot of money >> off an initial sell, but, once practically everyone that can get a screen >> reader, has a screen reader, the market is saturated, and the only money >> that comes in is through upgrade fees. That just is barely enough money to >> keep going. >> >> As much money as they'd been losing, FS had given up on support for any >> professional apps, outside of Microsoft Office, for the last few years, and >> supporting that suite of programs as their interfaces are completely >> overhauled each version became a all-consuming effort. If they wanted to do >> more than Office, they'd need to charge more money. The cheap-o and freebie >> screen readers aren't charging, but then they just don't support anything >> except leisure software. >> >> Well, maybe GW Micro can hold things together for a few years with Window >> Eyes. If not, looks like blind people will be out of clarical jobs. Hope >> they all can move up to professional employment, or else they'll be moving >> down to SSI checks. >> >> Bryan >> >> -Original Message- >> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kaare Dehard >> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 2:29 PM >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: [bcab] End of Freedom? >> >> I feel as sorry for the stupid or missinformed employers who will force the >> job losses. There are other windows based screen readers out there, some >> with plenty of scripting capabilities, such as window-eyes whos scripting >> fits more in to the modern age. We can't expect them all to addopt macs:) >> but we can pitty them their stupidity if they don't see th
Re: [bcab] End of Freedom?
As much as I have been unhappy with both windows and fs, all of these things could be addressed in some way. If jaws were to move to a different group of developers and get them an overhaul which updated scripting to something more object oriented etc, then those who use windows, by choice, or by nature of occupation would have two good competative screen readers to keep eachother honest. Although this doesn't exist in apple land, they are always running to catch windows, so perhaps this balances out. Will I re-addopt windblows? Not unless it is necessary, but if such a time should come, I want some options in that arena. It may be time to address at least the business model for these things, as is appropriate from time to time in a market that despite the rate of change, does evolve. On 2010-06-07, at 8:02 AM, Gary Readfern-Gray wrote: > OK thanks for the clarification, my point being that much of this > innovation has been created by savvy developers in the access tech > space whose livelyhood depends on their skill. Let's try and keep as > many of them as possible which ever platform they develop on, then we > get great accessibility and they get paid, that's what I call a win > win. > > On 6/7/10, Chris G wrote: >> >> >> >> On Mon, 7 Jun 2010 08:27:10 +0100 >> Gary Readfern-Gray wrote: >> >>> have one? Which of us was not prevented from accessing the web until >>> Jfw invented the concept of the virtual pc cursor? (well actually, I >>> think it was PW WebSpeak but that's a different story). >> >> Actually it was Artic technologies, then window-eyes, then JAWS. >> >> >> -- >> Chris G >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: [bcab] End of Freedom?
OK thanks for the clarification, my point being that much of this innovation has been created by savvy developers in the access tech space whose livelyhood depends on their skill. Let's try and keep as many of them as possible which ever platform they develop on, then we get great accessibility and they get paid, that's what I call a win win. On 6/7/10, Chris G wrote: > > > > On Mon, 7 Jun 2010 08:27:10 +0100 > Gary Readfern-Gray wrote: > >> have one? Which of us was not prevented from accessing the web until >> Jfw invented the concept of the virtual pc cursor? (well actually, I >> think it was PW WebSpeak but that's a different story). > > Actually it was Artic technologies, then window-eyes, then JAWS. > > > -- > Chris G > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: [bcab] End of Freedom?
On Mon, 7 Jun 2010 08:27:10 +0100 Gary Readfern-Gray wrote: > have one? Which of us was not prevented from accessing the web until > Jfw invented the concept of the virtual pc cursor? (well actually, I > think it was PW WebSpeak but that's a different story). Actually it was Artic technologies, then window-eyes, then JAWS. -- Chris G -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
RE: [bcab] End of Freedom?
You'd be crazy to go vista over windows 7. Windows 7 is far better than vista. Put seven on and then make sure the User access control is turned off and install jaws 10 first then install jaws 11. -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kimberly thurman Sent: Monday, 7 June 2010 2:12 a.m. To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [bcab] End of Freedom? This is good to know. I may just suck it up and put it on the Vista machine. On Jun 6, 2010, at 4:54 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote: > Interesting, > > I've got windows 7 on 5 different machines, including vm fusion on my > mac book pro. > And I only had issues on the first install with the jaws video > intercept not installing correctly. > > Other than that, I've had no trouble with windows 7 and jaws playing > together nicely. > > > -Original Message- > From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin > Sent: Sunday, 6 June 2010 5:17 a.m. > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: [bcab] End of Freedom? > > Just to add to this, this week I inherited a PC that my husband isn't > using. It's a fairly new computer running Windows 7, and I've been > trying to install JAWS on it since Wednesday, with absolutely no luck > at all, and this has included a one hour call to FS tech support. In > the interim, I've been running System Access over the internet, just > to have some speech on the machine. Having had this experience, I > would be hard-pressed ever to recommend JAWS over simply getting a Mac > again. I hope Apple does give FS a run for their money. If this is > the best FS can do, they deserve to lose out, whether to Apple, or to a group like Serotek. > Cheers, > Donna > On Jun 5, 2010, at 12:42 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote: > >> Off topic, but I feel everyone will be interested especially those >> people > who run Fusion on their Macs. >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >>> From: "Ibrahim Gucukoglu" >>> Date: June 5, 2010 9:36:33 AM GMT+01:00 >>> To: "Kawal Gucukoglu" >>> Subject: Fw: [bcab] End of Freedom? >>> >>> >>> - Original Message - From: "Colin r. Howard" >>> >>> To: ; ; >>> ; ; >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 1:30 AM >>> Subject: [bcab] End of Freedom? >>> >>> >>>> Greetings, >>>> >>>> I am posting the main text from a thread just seen on the Blind >>>> Audio List which I am surprised not to have seen on the BCAB or >>>> AccessUK > groups. >>>> >>>> Ought we to give much credence to this? >>>> >>>> I, for one, would welcome any comments from Sight and Sound. >>>> >>>> From: "Otto Zamora" >>>> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 05:44:14 -0400 >>>> >>>> Morning, >>>> >>>> In an advocate meeting yesterday, the subject came up reference >>>> Freedom Scientific, the company that among other things sports JFw. >>>> Because the company is in the state of Florida, it came up on a >>>> flag by an analyst. >>>> Seems this company is having bad money troubles, not surprising >>>> given the economy, but talk is that they are now looking to sell >>>> off some of their division, mainly their JFW area. >>>> I am not sure who if anyone will buy this division, considering >>>> that there is an entity now selling a fully integrated package for only $700. >>>> Besides a comprehensive screen reader, if the user chooses to get >>>> the package, there is a browser, along with a customed and fully >>>> accessible web sites, word processing, and E mail. >>>> all of this can apparently be accessed either on line, or as >>>> individual program. >>>> ad to that, the entertainment mogill, and you have a powerful tool >>>> indeed for the kind of money they are asking for. >>>> Another side of the equation is the apple company, now selling >>>> computers already with speech on board right out of the box and off >>>> the > shelf. >>>> Put these two aspects together, and you have a deadly combo that >>>> might very well result in a abrupt end to the JFW program. >>>> Considering the way that technology is growing, older versions of >>>> JFW, will only work for a short while u
Re: [bcab] End of Freedom?
While I agree with many of the Sentiments expressed in this thread and, for the record, am a proud iMac owner, if this is true this has got to be a sad sad day hasn't it? Which of us didn't start off on a pc with windows using a pro screenreader such as Jaws or Windoweyes or Hal? Which of us have not relied on such a screenreader for our jobs, if we're lucky enough to have one? Which of us was not prevented from accessing the web until Jfw invented the concept of the virtual pc cursor? (well actually, I think it was PW WebSpeak but that's a different story). How would you be feeling if Apple decided that it no longer made economic sense to support Voiceover going forward? Do you think they have given us Voiceover because they want to be nice to us or because it's cool or innovative? No, it's because they want to gain the exact same strangle hold on the Government and educational market that Freedom have had, and why not! So what I'm saying is this. It takes skilled professionals to develop access technology products and while I don't agree with Jfw's pricing model, we've all got to put food on the table somehow and personally, I'd rather not lose skilled access tech product developers to the banks or the oil companies or to whoever can pay them for their skills. Why, because it impoverishes the Access tech industry. Brian's right, just because there are several free screenreaders out there it doesn't mean that they fully support office or other applications that people may need. I've been struggling with Voiceover and both ProTools and Logic over the weekend, Let's see how ProTools accessibility compares with the Sonar Jaws scripts when it arrives. So What we need is Great accessibility on all platforms and anything that jeopardises that has got to be a bad thing. On 6/7/10, Bryan Smart wrote: > Window Eyes will get the Jaws refugees. They are the only other professional > screen reader for Windows. System Access, NVDA, and friends are not > professional. I know that lots of people that spend most of their time in a > web browser and chatting with friends on IM will disagree, but professionals > need advanced support for Excel, support for Word that goes beyond just > reading raw text, etc. > > And, actually, Window Eyes will be in the same boat in only a year or two. > You might not like high prices for pro level Windows screen readers, but > that's what it takes on Windows to make something pro. Windows screen > reading is a constant battle to keep supporting programs from version to > version, as little changes in the program break your screen reader's > previously great support. The screen reader companies make a lot of money > off an initial sell, but, once practically everyone that can get a screen > reader, has a screen reader, the market is saturated, and the only money > that comes in is through upgrade fees. That just is barely enough money to > keep going. > > As much money as they'd been losing, FS had given up on support for any > professional apps, outside of Microsoft Office, for the last few years, and > supporting that suite of programs as their interfaces are completely > overhauled each version became a all-consuming effort. If they wanted to do > more than Office, they'd need to charge more money. The cheap-o and freebie > screen readers aren't charging, but then they just don't support anything > except leisure software. > > Well, maybe GW Micro can hold things together for a few years with Window > Eyes. If not, looks like blind people will be out of clarical jobs. Hope > they all can move up to professional employment, or else they'll be moving > down to SSI checks. > > Bryan > > -Original Message----- > From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kaare Dehard > Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 2:29 PM > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: [bcab] End of Freedom? > > I feel as sorry for the stupid or missinformed employers who will force the > job losses. There are other windows based screen readers out there, some > with plenty of scripting capabilities, such as window-eyes whos scripting > fits more in to the modern age. We can't expect them all to addopt macs:) > but we can pitty them their stupidity if they don't see that the wold wasn't > created in 6 days for the blind by freedom:). > On 2010-06-05, at 2:21 PM, Donna Goodin wrote: > >> I agree with you. >> Donna >> On Jun 5, 2010, at 2:03 PM, Sarai Bucciarelli wrote: >> >>> I feel sorry for the people who will loose their jobs. >>> On Jun 5, 2010, at 12:22 PM, Courtney Curran wrote: >>> >>>> I certainly agree. Yay, yay, no more
RE: [bcab] End of Freedom?
Window Eyes will get the Jaws refugees. They are the only other professional screen reader for Windows. System Access, NVDA, and friends are not professional. I know that lots of people that spend most of their time in a web browser and chatting with friends on IM will disagree, but professionals need advanced support for Excel, support for Word that goes beyond just reading raw text, etc. And, actually, Window Eyes will be in the same boat in only a year or two. You might not like high prices for pro level Windows screen readers, but that's what it takes on Windows to make something pro. Windows screen reading is a constant battle to keep supporting programs from version to version, as little changes in the program break your screen reader's previously great support. The screen reader companies make a lot of money off an initial sell, but, once practically everyone that can get a screen reader, has a screen reader, the market is saturated, and the only money that comes in is through upgrade fees. That just is barely enough money to keep going. As much money as they'd been losing, FS had given up on support for any professional apps, outside of Microsoft Office, for the last few years, and supporting that suite of programs as their interfaces are completely overhauled each version became a all-consuming effort. If they wanted to do more than Office, they'd need to charge more money. The cheap-o and freebie screen readers aren't charging, but then they just don't support anything except leisure software. Well, maybe GW Micro can hold things together for a few years with Window Eyes. If not, looks like blind people will be out of clarical jobs. Hope they all can move up to professional employment, or else they'll be moving down to SSI checks. Bryan -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kaare Dehard Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 2:29 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [bcab] End of Freedom? I feel as sorry for the stupid or missinformed employers who will force the job losses. There are other windows based screen readers out there, some with plenty of scripting capabilities, such as window-eyes whos scripting fits more in to the modern age. We can't expect them all to addopt macs:) but we can pitty them their stupidity if they don't see that the wold wasn't created in 6 days for the blind by freedom:). On 2010-06-05, at 2:21 PM, Donna Goodin wrote: > I agree with you. > Donna > On Jun 5, 2010, at 2:03 PM, Sarai Bucciarelli wrote: > >> I feel sorry for the people who will loose their jobs. >> On Jun 5, 2010, at 12:22 PM, Courtney Curran wrote: >> >>> I certainly agree. Yay, yay, no more overpriced, unfair JAWS. >>> Courtney >>> >>> On 05/06/2010, at 1:19 in the Afternoon, Olivia Norman wrote: >>> >>>> YAY! YAY! YAY! Goodbye Jaws! :) :) :) :) "Innovation distinguishes >>>> between a leader and a follower" Steve Jobs >>>> >>>> On Jun 5, 2010, at 9:42 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote: >>>> >>>>> Off topic, but I feel everyone will be interested especially those people >>>>> who run Fusion on their Macs. >>>>> >>>>> Begin forwarded message: >>>>> >>>>>> From: "Ibrahim Gucukoglu" >>>>>> Date: June 5, 2010 9:36:33 AM GMT+01:00 >>>>>> To: "Kawal Gucukoglu" >>>>>> Subject: Fw: [bcab] End of Freedom? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> - Original Message - From: "Colin r. Howard" >>>>>> >>>>>> To: ; ; >>>>>> ; ; >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 1:30 AM >>>>>> Subject: [bcab] End of Freedom? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Greetings, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am posting the main text from a thread just seen on the Blind >>>>>>> Audio List which I am surprised not to have seen on the BCAB or >>>>>>> AccessUK groups. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ought we to give much credence to this? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I, for one, would welcome any comments from Sight and Sound. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From: "Otto Zamora" >>>>>>> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 05:44:14 -0400 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Morning, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In an
Re: [bcab] End of Freedom?
This is good to know. I may just suck it up and put it on the Vista machine. On Jun 6, 2010, at 4:54 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote: > Interesting, > > I've got windows 7 on 5 different machines, including vm fusion on my mac > book pro. > And I only had issues on the first install with the jaws video intercept > not installing correctly. > > Other than that, I've had no trouble with windows 7 and jaws playing > together nicely. > > > -Original Message- > From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin > Sent: Sunday, 6 June 2010 5:17 a.m. > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: [bcab] End of Freedom? > > Just to add to this, this week I inherited a PC that my husband isn't > using. It's a fairly new computer running Windows 7, and I've been trying > to install JAWS on it since Wednesday, with absolutely no luck at all, and > this has included a one hour call to FS tech support. In the interim, I've > been running System Access over the internet, just to have some speech on > the machine. Having had this experience, I would be hard-pressed ever to > recommend JAWS over simply getting a Mac again. I hope Apple does give FS a > run for their money. If this is the best FS can do, they deserve to lose > out, whether to Apple, or to a group like Serotek. > Cheers, > Donna > On Jun 5, 2010, at 12:42 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote: > >> Off topic, but I feel everyone will be interested especially those people > who run Fusion on their Macs. >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >>> From: "Ibrahim Gucukoglu" >>> Date: June 5, 2010 9:36:33 AM GMT+01:00 >>> To: "Kawal Gucukoglu" >>> Subject: Fw: [bcab] End of Freedom? >>> >>> >>> - Original Message - From: "Colin r. Howard" >>> >>> To: ; ; >>> ; ; >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 1:30 AM >>> Subject: [bcab] End of Freedom? >>> >>> >>>> Greetings, >>>> >>>> I am posting the main text from a thread just seen on the Blind >>>> Audio List which I am surprised not to have seen on the BCAB or AccessUK > groups. >>>> >>>> Ought we to give much credence to this? >>>> >>>> I, for one, would welcome any comments from Sight and Sound. >>>> >>>> From: "Otto Zamora" >>>> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 05:44:14 -0400 >>>> >>>> Morning, >>>> >>>> In an advocate meeting yesterday, the subject came up reference >>>> Freedom Scientific, the company that among other things sports JFw. >>>> Because the company is in the state of Florida, it came up on a >>>> flag by an analyst. >>>> Seems this company is having bad money troubles, not surprising >>>> given the economy, but talk is that they are now looking to sell off >>>> some of their division, mainly their JFW area. >>>> I am not sure who if anyone will buy this division, considering that >>>> there is an entity now selling a fully integrated package for only $700. >>>> Besides a comprehensive screen reader, if the user chooses to get >>>> the package, there is a browser, along with a customed and fully >>>> accessible web sites, word processing, and E mail. >>>> all of this can apparently be accessed either on line, or as >>>> individual program. >>>> ad to that, the entertainment mogill, and you have a powerful tool >>>> indeed for the kind of money they are asking for. >>>> Another side of the equation is the apple company, now selling >>>> computers already with speech on board right out of the box and off the > shelf. >>>> Put these two aspects together, and you have a deadly combo that >>>> might very well result in a abrupt end to the JFW program. >>>> Considering the way that technology is growing, older versions of >>>> JFW, will only work for a short while until the programs controlling >>>> the OS, begins to outgrow the application. >>>> In seeing this package, one of the things which was pointed out to >>>> me, was the learning curve, which for the new package being sold by >>>> Mr.. Mike Calvo, is very short. >>>> The user has the option to learn as little or as much as they want >>>> without real loss. From: "Alison Trelfa" >>>> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 15:36:4
RE: [bcab] End of Freedom?
Yeah jaws is over priced and could be better in a number of ways. However it's still the best screen reader on the market, none of the other products available give you the functionality of jaws. Window eyes and System access are pretty dam good, but I still think jaws rates highest especially when things like servers are being used. -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarai Bucciarelli Sent: Sunday, 6 June 2010 6:04 a.m. To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [bcab] End of Freedom? I feel sorry for the people who will loose their jobs. On Jun 5, 2010, at 12:22 PM, Courtney Curran wrote: > I certainly agree. Yay, yay, no more overpriced, unfair JAWS. > Courtney > > On 05/06/2010, at 1:19 in the Afternoon, Olivia Norman wrote: > >> YAY! YAY! YAY! Goodbye Jaws! :) :) :) :) "Innovation distinguishes >> between a leader and a follower" Steve Jobs >> >> On Jun 5, 2010, at 9:42 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote: >> >>> Off topic, but I feel everyone will be interested especially those people who run Fusion on their Macs. >>> >>> Begin forwarded message: >>> >>>> From: "Ibrahim Gucukoglu" >>>> Date: June 5, 2010 9:36:33 AM GMT+01:00 >>>> To: "Kawal Gucukoglu" >>>> Subject: Fw: [bcab] End of Freedom? >>>> >>>> >>>> - Original Message - From: "Colin r. Howard" >>>> >>>> To: ; ; >>>> ; ; >>>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 1:30 AM >>>> Subject: [bcab] End of Freedom? >>>> >>>> >>>>> Greetings, >>>>> >>>>> I am posting the main text from a thread just seen on the Blind >>>>> Audio List which I am surprised not to have seen on the BCAB or AccessUK groups. >>>>> >>>>> Ought we to give much credence to this? >>>>> >>>>> I, for one, would welcome any comments from Sight and Sound. >>>>> >>>>> From: "Otto Zamora" >>>>> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 05:44:14 -0400 >>>>> >>>>> Morning, >>>>> >>>>> In an advocate meeting yesterday, the subject came up reference >>>>> Freedom Scientific, the company that among other things sports JFw. >>>>> Because the company is in the state of Florida, it came up on a >>>>> flag by an analyst. >>>>> Seems this company is having bad money troubles, not surprising >>>>> given the economy, but talk is that they are now looking to sell >>>>> off some of their division, mainly their JFW area. >>>>> I am not sure who if anyone will buy this division, considering >>>>> that there is an entity now selling a fully integrated package for only $700. >>>>> Besides a comprehensive screen reader, if the user chooses to get >>>>> the package, there is a browser, along with a customed and fully >>>>> accessible web sites, word processing, and E mail. >>>>> all of this can apparently be accessed either on line, or as >>>>> individual program. >>>>> ad to that, the entertainment mogill, and you have a powerful tool >>>>> indeed for the kind of money they are asking for. >>>>> Another side of the equation is the apple company, now selling >>>>> computers already with speech on board right out of the box and off the shelf. >>>>> Put these two aspects together, and you have a deadly combo that >>>>> might very well result in a abrupt end to the JFW program. >>>>> Considering the way that technology is growing, older versions of >>>>> JFW, will only work for a short while until the programs >>>>> controlling the OS, begins to outgrow the application. >>>>> In seeing this package, one of the things which was pointed out to >>>>> me, was the learning curve, which for the new package being sold >>>>> by Mr.. Mike Calvo, is very short. >>>>> The user has the option to learn as little or as much as they want >>>>> without real loss. From: "Alison Trelfa" >>>>> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 15:36:47 +0100 >>>>> >>>>> Hello, Otto, >>>>> >>>>> I wonder whether many jaws users would move to another speech >>>>> program as yet as many of the packages that
RE: [bcab] End of Freedom?
Interesting, I've got windows 7 on 5 different machines, including vm fusion on my mac book pro. And I only had issues on the first install with the jaws video intercept not installing correctly. Other than that, I've had no trouble with windows 7 and jaws playing together nicely. -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin Sent: Sunday, 6 June 2010 5:17 a.m. To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [bcab] End of Freedom? Just to add to this, this week I inherited a PC that my husband isn't using. It's a fairly new computer running Windows 7, and I've been trying to install JAWS on it since Wednesday, with absolutely no luck at all, and this has included a one hour call to FS tech support. In the interim, I've been running System Access over the internet, just to have some speech on the machine. Having had this experience, I would be hard-pressed ever to recommend JAWS over simply getting a Mac again. I hope Apple does give FS a run for their money. If this is the best FS can do, they deserve to lose out, whether to Apple, or to a group like Serotek. Cheers, Donna On Jun 5, 2010, at 12:42 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote: > Off topic, but I feel everyone will be interested especially those people who run Fusion on their Macs. > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: "Ibrahim Gucukoglu" >> Date: June 5, 2010 9:36:33 AM GMT+01:00 >> To: "Kawal Gucukoglu" >> Subject: Fw: [bcab] End of Freedom? >> >> >> - Original Message - From: "Colin r. Howard" >> >> To: ; ; >> ; ; >> >> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 1:30 AM >> Subject: [bcab] End of Freedom? >> >> >>> Greetings, >>> >>> I am posting the main text from a thread just seen on the Blind >>> Audio List which I am surprised not to have seen on the BCAB or AccessUK groups. >>> >>> Ought we to give much credence to this? >>> >>> I, for one, would welcome any comments from Sight and Sound. >>> >>> From: "Otto Zamora" >>> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 05:44:14 -0400 >>> >>> Morning, >>> >>> In an advocate meeting yesterday, the subject came up reference >>> Freedom Scientific, the company that among other things sports JFw. >>> Because the company is in the state of Florida, it came up on a >>> flag by an analyst. >>> Seems this company is having bad money troubles, not surprising >>> given the economy, but talk is that they are now looking to sell off >>> some of their division, mainly their JFW area. >>> I am not sure who if anyone will buy this division, considering that >>> there is an entity now selling a fully integrated package for only $700. >>> Besides a comprehensive screen reader, if the user chooses to get >>> the package, there is a browser, along with a customed and fully >>> accessible web sites, word processing, and E mail. >>> all of this can apparently be accessed either on line, or as >>> individual program. >>> ad to that, the entertainment mogill, and you have a powerful tool >>> indeed for the kind of money they are asking for. >>> Another side of the equation is the apple company, now selling >>> computers already with speech on board right out of the box and off the shelf. >>> Put these two aspects together, and you have a deadly combo that >>> might very well result in a abrupt end to the JFW program. >>> Considering the way that technology is growing, older versions of >>> JFW, will only work for a short while until the programs controlling >>> the OS, begins to outgrow the application. >>> In seeing this package, one of the things which was pointed out to >>> me, was the learning curve, which for the new package being sold by >>> Mr.. Mike Calvo, is very short. >>> The user has the option to learn as little or as much as they want >>> without real loss. From: "Alison Trelfa" >>> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 15:36:47 +0100 >>> >>> Hello, Otto, >>> >>> I wonder whether many jaws users would move to another speech >>> program as yet as many of the packages that are not standard >>> probably wouldn't be supported by the out of the box speech. I run >>> Sonar and Sibelius 5.25, both of which are using scripts that have >>> been written by folk who specialise not only in Jaws, but only in >>> the two programs. I suppose those people who only need computers for &g
Re: [bcab] End of Freedom?
Hello Karen. I absolutely agree with your views on JFW's hold on the market place for access technology. I have been complaining about FS's overpriced items, lack of customer service [or courtesy] and many things along those lines. Although, often times, young blind people are introduced to certain types of technology like screen readers from whoever is responsible for buying all of that stuff for them. People who make those buying decisions often stick to one product [say JFW] for years and years, for all their students, even if it doesn't work best or even if there may be better products out there, because they may be unaware of alternatives. I was raised on jfw since i knew what computers were but got frustrated because, year after year and as jfw's popularity among us fell, it was still the gold standard of screen readers or the "only option" for so many. Someone was suggesting i look in to jfw for mac when i mentioned i wanted a mac. that shows how little the knowledge is out there among people dealing with adaptive tech that mac has voice over. Plus, schools use macs all the time i wish there were more of us trained on macs in school [like every other student] and we would all have a more enjoyable computer experience. Karen Lewellen wrote: > I will reserve comment on Freedom Scientific as a company. While I too > feel for those who will lose their jobs, I am more concerned for those who > are emotionally attached to jfw. Those who feel they have no choice but > to use windows. Those who are told that everyone uses jfw, and that you > are not a good blind person if you are not using it. those who fear going > through the training process again, if they ever got real training in the > first place. > Frankly I hope no one takes over the program. One of the blights on access > is the assumption that say banks and other commercial companies make that > if a site works with jfw, then it is fully accessible for all computer > users experiencing vision loss. That came from the strangle hold jfw had on > the state and government market. > so removing the program all together opens the door indeed for a real > accessible level playing field. something rooted in w3c suggestions, > not on specific products. The adaptive market becomes one with many > consumers making computer choices based on their individual tastes and > desires, not a one size fits all lump of people. > But someone is going to have to help those lost sheep know that they now > have more choices. > Karen > > On Sat, 5 Jun 2010, Allison Manzino wrote: > > > Wow, > > > > That is just amazing. I thought Freedom would have gone under a long time > > ago given their high prices and lack of tech support at least in my > > opinion. I think that people are tired of paying $1500 for a screen > > reader. I use Window-Eyes that is currently being paid off via a payment > > plan. But Jaws kept crashing on me after version 6. I hope they will get > > someone to take the project over, since I know that windows users outnumber > > Mac. If I remember correctly, and this was way back in the late nineties I > > believe, JFW used to be owned by Henter Joyce. They also own Blazie I > > think. I think this might finally level the playing field for all of us. I > > don't have anything against Freedom, I just want technology to be > > accessible and affordable for everyone. > > > > Allison > > > > On Jun 5, 2010, at 2:07 PM, Teresa Cochran wrote: > > > >> Well, it strikes me as being at the rumor and discussion level as of yet, > >> but I wouldn't be surprised to see FS move in that direction. Personally, > >> I won't be getting any more JAWS upgrades, and I'm perfectly happy with > >> the Mac and Alex. :) > >> > >> Teresa > >> On Jun 5, 2010, at 9:42 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote: > >> > >>> Off topic, but I feel everyone will be interested especially those people > >>> who run Fusion on their Macs. > >>> > >>> Begin forwarded message: > >>> > From: "Ibrahim Gucukoglu" > Date: June 5, 2010 9:36:33 AM GMT+01:00 > To: "Kawal Gucukoglu" > Subject: Fw: [bcab] End of Freedom? > > > - Original Message - From: "Colin r. Howard" > To: ; ; > ; ; > > Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 1:30 AM > Subject: [bcab] End of Freedom? > > > > Greetings, > > > > I am posting the main text from a thread just seen on the Blind Audio > > List > > which I am surprised not to have seen on the BCAB or AccessUK groups. > > > > Ought we to give much credence to this? > > > > I, for one, would welcome any comments from Sight and Sound. > > > > From: "Otto Zamora" > > Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 05:44:14 -0400 > > > > Morning, > > > > In an advocate meeting yesterday, the subject came up reference Freedom > > Scientific, the company that among other things sports JFw. > > Because the company is in the state of Florida, it came up o
Re: [bcab] End of Freedom?
I am not going to say anything good about Freedom, but you all act as if this
information is a done deal, where is the documentation that confirms it?
Rumors do not equal truth, so just where is this information coming from? I'm
not saying it isn't true, but I have to say that all that you learn on the
Internet isn't necessarily correct. If you doubt this, go to www.snopes.com :-)
- Original Message -
From: Carolyn
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: [bcab] End of Freedom?
And speaking of their stranglehold, some of you mac-savvy folks stand to gain
employability teaching the mac to those who either just start out, or move from
PC to Mac. Makes me want to really get cooking with mine!
carolyn
- Original Message -
From: Olivia Norman
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: [bcab] End of Freedom?
I agree with you! I've heard that "this works on JFW, so it must be
accessible" so many times! I'll be excited to see them loose some of their
strangle hold on the market.
Olivia
"Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower" Steve Jobs
On Jun 5, 2010, at 1:47 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> I will reserve comment on Freedom Scientific as a company. While I too
feel for those who will lose their jobs, I am more concerned for those who are
emotionally attached to jfw. Those who feel they have no choice but to use
windows. Those who are told that everyone uses jfw, and that you are not a good
blind person if you are not using it. those who fear going through the training
process again, if they ever got real training in the first place.
> Frankly I hope no one takes over the program. One of the blights on
access is the assumption that say banks and other commercial companies make
that if a site works with jfw, then it is fully accessible for all computer
users experiencing vision loss. That came from the strangle hold jfw had on the
state and government market.
> so removing the program all together opens the door indeed for a real
accessible level playing field. something rooted in w3c suggestions, not on
specific products. The adaptive market becomes one with many consumers making
computer choices based on their individual tastes and desires, not a one size
fits all lump of people.
> But someone is going to have to help those lost sheep know that they now
have more choices.
> Karen
>
> On Sat, 5 Jun 2010, Allison Manzino wrote:
>
>> Wow,
>>
>> That is just amazing. I thought Freedom would have gone under a long
time ago given their high prices and lack of tech support at least in my
opinion. I think that people are tired of paying $1500 for a screen reader. I
use Window-Eyes that is currently being paid off via a payment plan. But Jaws
kept crashing on me after version 6. I hope they will get someone to take the
project over, since I know that windows users outnumber Mac. If I remember
correctly, and this was way back in the late nineties I believe, JFW used to be
owned by Henter Joyce. They also own Blazie I think. I think this might finally
level the playing field for all of us. I don't have anything against Freedom, I
just want technology to be accessible and affordable for everyone.
>>
>> Allison
>>
>> On Jun 5, 2010, at 2:07 PM, Teresa Cochran wrote:
>>
>>> Well, it strikes me as being at the rumor and discussion level as of
yet, but I wouldn't be surprised to see FS move in that direction. Personally,
I won't be getting any more JAWS upgrades, and I'm perfectly happy with the Mac
and Alex. :)
>>>
>>> Teresa
>>> On Jun 5, 2010, at 9:42 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
>>>
>>>> Off topic, but I feel everyone will be interested especially those
people who run Fusion on their Macs.
>>>>
>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>
>>>>> From: "Ibrahim Gucukoglu"
>>>>> Date: June 5, 2010 9:36:33 AM GMT+01:00
>>>>> To: "Kawal Gucukoglu"
>>>>> Subject: Fw: [bcab] End of Freedom?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> - Original Message - From: "Colin r. Howard"
>>>>> To: ; ;
; ;
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 1:30 AM
>>>>> Subject: [bcab] End of Freedom?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Greetings,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am posting the main text from a thread just seen on th
Re: [bcab] End of Freedom?
And speaking of their stranglehold, some of you mac-savvy folks stand to gain employability teaching the mac to those who either just start out, or move from PC to Mac. Makes me want to really get cooking with mine! carolyn - Original Message - From: Olivia Norman To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [bcab] End of Freedom? I agree with you! I've heard that "this works on JFW, so it must be accessible" so many times! I'll be excited to see them loose some of their strangle hold on the market. Olivia "Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower" Steve Jobs On Jun 5, 2010, at 1:47 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote: > I will reserve comment on Freedom Scientific as a company. While I too feel for those who will lose their jobs, I am more concerned for those who are emotionally attached to jfw. Those who feel they have no choice but to use windows. Those who are told that everyone uses jfw, and that you are not a good blind person if you are not using it. those who fear going through the training process again, if they ever got real training in the first place. > Frankly I hope no one takes over the program. One of the blights on access is the assumption that say banks and other commercial companies make that if a site works with jfw, then it is fully accessible for all computer users experiencing vision loss. That came from the strangle hold jfw had on the state and government market. > so removing the program all together opens the door indeed for a real accessible level playing field. something rooted in w3c suggestions, not on specific products. The adaptive market becomes one with many consumers making computer choices based on their individual tastes and desires, not a one size fits all lump of people. > But someone is going to have to help those lost sheep know that they now have more choices. > Karen > > On Sat, 5 Jun 2010, Allison Manzino wrote: > >> Wow, >> >> That is just amazing. I thought Freedom would have gone under a long time ago given their high prices and lack of tech support at least in my opinion. I think that people are tired of paying $1500 for a screen reader. I use Window-Eyes that is currently being paid off via a payment plan. But Jaws kept crashing on me after version 6. I hope they will get someone to take the project over, since I know that windows users outnumber Mac. If I remember correctly, and this was way back in the late nineties I believe, JFW used to be owned by Henter Joyce. They also own Blazie I think. I think this might finally level the playing field for all of us. I don't have anything against Freedom, I just want technology to be accessible and affordable for everyone. >> >> Allison >> >> On Jun 5, 2010, at 2:07 PM, Teresa Cochran wrote: >> >>> Well, it strikes me as being at the rumor and discussion level as of yet, but I wouldn't be surprised to see FS move in that direction. Personally, I won't be getting any more JAWS upgrades, and I'm perfectly happy with the Mac and Alex. :) >>> >>> Teresa >>> On Jun 5, 2010, at 9:42 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote: >>> >>>> Off topic, but I feel everyone will be interested especially those people who run Fusion on their Macs. >>>> >>>> Begin forwarded message: >>>> >>>>> From: "Ibrahim Gucukoglu" >>>>> Date: June 5, 2010 9:36:33 AM GMT+01:00 >>>>> To: "Kawal Gucukoglu" >>>>> Subject: Fw: [bcab] End of Freedom? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> - Original Message - From: "Colin r. Howard" >>>>> To: ; ; ; ; >>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 1:30 AM >>>>> Subject: [bcab] End of Freedom? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Greetings, >>>>>> >>>>>> I am posting the main text from a thread just seen on the Blind Audio List >>>>>> which I am surprised not to have seen on the BCAB or AccessUK groups. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ought we to give much credence to this? >>>>>> >>>>>> I, for one, would welcome any comments from Sight and Sound. >>>>>> >>>>>> From: "Otto Zamora" >>>>>> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 05:44:14 -0400 >>>>>> >>>>>> Morning, >>>>>> >>>>>> In an advocate meeting yesterday, the subject came up reference Freedom
Re: [bcab] End of Freedom?
Well, this sure comes at an interesting time. With Macs talking off the shelf, anf gaining popularity among at least the blind market, I can understand why FS might have the jitters. Plus, their prices are outrageous for what they give, and their tech support is pretty much good to horrid, depending on who you get. When Jaws 7.10 wasn't doing things well enough, I was thinking the Mac might be a good alternative to consider. So, I feel alittle smugg now, knowing that while I've enjoyed and gained a lot using JAWS, I have a safetynet, if not a better option eventually. And FS is going to have to make some changes or give JAWS to someone that keeps the user, and not the user's money in mind. Maybe we should start sending apples to FS, and they'll get the message? Ok, I'm not that mean. Take care Carolyn - Original Message - From: Allison Manzino To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 2:22 PM Subject: Re: [bcab] End of Freedom? Wow, That is just amazing. I thought Freedom would have gone under a long time ago given their high prices and lack of tech support at least in my opinion. I think that people are tired of paying $1500 for a screen reader. I use Window-Eyes that is currently being paid off via a payment plan. But Jaws kept crashing on me after version 6. I hope they will get someone to take the project over, since I know that windows users outnumber Mac. If I remember correctly, and this was way back in the late nineties I believe, JFW used to be owned by Henter Joyce. They also own Blazie I think. I think this might finally level the playing field for all of us. I don't have anything against Freedom, I just want technology to be accessible and affordable for everyone. Allison On Jun 5, 2010, at 2:07 PM, Teresa Cochran wrote: > Well, it strikes me as being at the rumor and discussion level as of yet, but I wouldn't be surprised to see FS move in that direction. Personally, I won't be getting any more JAWS upgrades, and I'm perfectly happy with the Mac and Alex. :) > > Teresa > On Jun 5, 2010, at 9:42 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote: > >> Off topic, but I feel everyone will be interested especially those people who run Fusion on their Macs. >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >>> From: "Ibrahim Gucukoglu" >>> Date: June 5, 2010 9:36:33 AM GMT+01:00 >>> To: "Kawal Gucukoglu" >>> Subject: Fw: [bcab] End of Freedom? >>> >>> >>> - Original Message - From: "Colin r. Howard" >>> To: ; ; ; ; >>> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 1:30 AM >>> Subject: [bcab] End of Freedom? >>> >>> >>>> Greetings, >>>> >>>> I am posting the main text from a thread just seen on the Blind Audio List >>>> which I am surprised not to have seen on the BCAB or AccessUK groups. >>>> >>>> Ought we to give much credence to this? >>>> >>>> I, for one, would welcome any comments from Sight and Sound. >>>> >>>> From: "Otto Zamora" >>>> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 05:44:14 -0400 >>>> >>>> Morning, >>>> >>>> In an advocate meeting yesterday, the subject came up reference Freedom >>>> Scientific, the company that among other things sports JFw. >>>> Because the company is in the state of Florida, it came up on a flag by an >>>> analyst. >>>> Seems this company is having bad money troubles, not surprising given the >>>> economy, but talk is that they are now looking to sell off some of their >>>> division, mainly their JFW area. >>>> I am not sure who if anyone will buy this division, considering that there >>>> is an entity now selling a fully integrated package for only $700. >>>> Besides a comprehensive screen reader, if the user chooses to get the >>>> package, there is a browser, along with a customed and fully accessible web >>>> sites, word processing, and E mail. >>>> all of this can apparently be accessed either on line, or as individual >>>> program. >>>> ad to that, the entertainment mogill, and you have a powerful tool indeed >>>> for the kind of money they are asking for. >>>> Another side of the equation is the apple company, now selling computers >>>> already with speech on board right out of the box and off the shelf. >>>> Put these two aspects together, and you have a deadly combo th
Re: [bcab] End of Freedom?
As i'm reading with it, can't say that yet, but you did make me smile big!!! Carolyn - Original Message - From: Olivia Norman To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 11:19 AM Subject: Re: [bcab] End of Freedom? YAY! YAY! YAY! Goodbye Jaws! :) :) :) :) "Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower" Steve Jobs On Jun 5, 2010, at 9:42 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote: > Off topic, but I feel everyone will be interested especially those people who run Fusion on their Macs. > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: "Ibrahim Gucukoglu" >> Date: June 5, 2010 9:36:33 AM GMT+01:00 >> To: "Kawal Gucukoglu" >> Subject: Fw: [bcab] End of Freedom? >> >> >> - Original Message - From: "Colin r. Howard" >> To: ; ; ; ; >> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 1:30 AM >> Subject: [bcab] End of Freedom? >> >> >>> Greetings, >>> >>> I am posting the main text from a thread just seen on the Blind Audio List >>> which I am surprised not to have seen on the BCAB or AccessUK groups. >>> >>> Ought we to give much credence to this? >>> >>> I, for one, would welcome any comments from Sight and Sound. >>> >>> From: "Otto Zamora" >>> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 05:44:14 -0400 >>> >>> Morning, >>> >>> In an advocate meeting yesterday, the subject came up reference Freedom >>> Scientific, the company that among other things sports JFw. >>> Because the company is in the state of Florida, it came up on a flag by an >>> analyst. >>> Seems this company is having bad money troubles, not surprising given the >>> economy, but talk is that they are now looking to sell off some of their >>> division, mainly their JFW area. >>> I am not sure who if anyone will buy this division, considering that there >>> is an entity now selling a fully integrated package for only $700. >>> Besides a comprehensive screen reader, if the user chooses to get the >>> package, there is a browser, along with a customed and fully accessible web >>> sites, word processing, and E mail. >>> all of this can apparently be accessed either on line, or as individual >>> program. >>> ad to that, the entertainment mogill, and you have a powerful tool indeed >>> for the kind of money they are asking for. >>> Another side of the equation is the apple company, now selling computers >>> already with speech on board right out of the box and off the shelf. >>> Put these two aspects together, and you have a deadly combo that might very >>> well result in a abrupt end to the JFW program. >>> Considering the way that technology is growing, older versions of JFW, will >>> only work for a short while until the programs controlling the OS, begins to >>> outgrow the application. >>> In seeing this package, one of the things which was pointed out to me, was >>> the learning curve, which for the new package being sold by Mr.. Mike Calvo, >>> is very short. >>> The user has the option to learn as little or as much as they want without >>> real loss. From: "Alison Trelfa" >>> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 15:36:47 +0100 >>> >>> Hello, Otto, >>> >>> I wonder whether many jaws users would move to another speech program as yet >>> as many of the packages that are not standard probably wouldn't be supported >>> by the out of the box speech. I run Sonar and Sibelius 5.25, both of which >>> are using scripts that have been written by folk who specialise not only in >>> Jaws, but only in the two programs. I suppose those people who only need >>> computers for basic commands may well get away with speech such as you >>> describe, but I don't think that Jaws would just be dismissed out of hand >>> because Freedom is going. I think Jaws has changed hands once before if I'm >>> not mistaken? Correct me if I'm wrong there. >>> >>> I would be very sorry to see Jaws go under, but I'm not worried yet. There >>> is a huge following for Jaws and I believe that someone would take it over. >>> >>> From: "Otto Zamora" >>> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 10:49:36 -0400 >>> >>> hi, >>> >>> You are correct, I am just stating
Re: [bcab] End of Freedom?
indeed, well meaning but poorly educated people...usually fed that line by someone who benefited from promoting jfw. Karen On Sat, 5 Jun 2010, Olivia Norman wrote: I agree with you! I've heard that "this works on JFW, so it must be accessible" so many times! I'll be excited to see them loose some of their strangle hold on the market. Olivia "Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower" Steve Jobs On Jun 5, 2010, at 1:47 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote: I will reserve comment on Freedom Scientific as a company. While I too feel for those who will lose their jobs, I am more concerned for those who are emotionally attached to jfw. Those who feel they have no choice but to use windows. Those who are told that everyone uses jfw, and that you are not a good blind person if you are not using it. those who fear going through the training process again, if they ever got real training in the first place. Frankly I hope no one takes over the program. One of the blights on access is the assumption that say banks and other commercial companies make that if a site works with jfw, then it is fully accessible for all computer users experiencing vision loss. That came from the strangle hold jfw had on the state and government market. so removing the program all together opens the door indeed for a real accessible level playing field. something rooted in w3c suggestions, not on specific products. The adaptive market becomes one with many consumers making computer choices based on their individual tastes and desires, not a one size fits all lump of people. But someone is going to have to help those lost sheep know that they now have more choices. Karen On Sat, 5 Jun 2010, Allison Manzino wrote: Wow, That is just amazing. I thought Freedom would have gone under a long time ago given their high prices and lack of tech support at least in my opinion. I think that people are tired of paying $1500 for a screen reader. I use Window-Eyes that is currently being paid off via a payment plan. But Jaws kept crashing on me after version 6. I hope they will get someone to take the project over, since I know that windows users outnumber Mac. If I remember correctly, and this was way back in the late nineties I believe, JFW used to be owned by Henter Joyce. They also own Blazie I think. I think this might finally level the playing field for all of us. I don't have anything against Freedom, I just want technology to be accessible and affordable for everyone. Allison On Jun 5, 2010, at 2:07 PM, Teresa Cochran wrote: Well, it strikes me as being at the rumor and discussion level as of yet, but I wouldn't be surprised to see FS move in that direction. Personally, I won't be getting any more JAWS upgrades, and I'm perfectly happy with the Mac and Alex. :) Teresa On Jun 5, 2010, at 9:42 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote: Off topic, but I feel everyone will be interested especially those people who run Fusion on their Macs. Begin forwarded message: From: "Ibrahim Gucukoglu" Date: June 5, 2010 9:36:33 AM GMT+01:00 To: "Kawal Gucukoglu" Subject: Fw: [bcab] End of Freedom? - Original Message - From: "Colin r. Howard" To: ; ; ; ; Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 1:30 AM Subject: [bcab] End of Freedom? Greetings, I am posting the main text from a thread just seen on the Blind Audio List which I am surprised not to have seen on the BCAB or AccessUK groups. Ought we to give much credence to this? I, for one, would welcome any comments from Sight and Sound. From: "Otto Zamora" Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 05:44:14 -0400 Morning, In an advocate meeting yesterday, the subject came up reference Freedom Scientific, the company that among other things sports JFw. Because the company is in the state of Florida, it came up on a flag by an analyst. Seems this company is having bad money troubles, not surprising given the economy, but talk is that they are now looking to sell off some of their division, mainly their JFW area. I am not sure who if anyone will buy this division, considering that there is an entity now selling a fully integrated package for only $700. Besides a comprehensive screen reader, if the user chooses to get the package, there is a browser, along with a customed and fully accessible web sites, word processing, and E mail. all of this can apparently be accessed either on line, or as individual program. ad to that, the entertainment mogill, and you have a powerful tool indeed for the kind of money they are asking for. Another side of the equation is the apple company, now selling computers already with speech on board right out of the box and off the shelf. Put these two aspects together, and you have a deadly combo that might very well result in a abrupt end to the JFW program. Considering the way that technology is growing, older versions of JFW, will only work for a short while until the programs controlling the OS, begins to outgrow the application. In seeing this pack
Re: [bcab] End of Freedom?
I agree with you! I've heard that "this works on JFW, so it must be accessible" so many times! I'll be excited to see them loose some of their strangle hold on the market. Olivia "Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower" Steve Jobs On Jun 5, 2010, at 1:47 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote: > I will reserve comment on Freedom Scientific as a company. While I too feel > for those who will lose their jobs, I am more concerned for those who are > emotionally attached to jfw. Those who feel they have no choice but to use > windows. Those who are told that everyone uses jfw, and that you are not a > good blind person if you are not using it. those who fear going through the > training process again, if they ever got real training in the first place. > Frankly I hope no one takes over the program. One of the blights on access is > the assumption that say banks and other commercial companies make that if a > site works with jfw, then it is fully accessible for all computer users > experiencing vision loss. That came from the strangle hold jfw had on the > state and government market. > so removing the program all together opens the door indeed for a real > accessible level playing field. something rooted in w3c suggestions, not on > specific products. The adaptive market becomes one with many consumers > making computer choices based on their individual tastes and desires, not a > one size fits all lump of people. > But someone is going to have to help those lost sheep know that they now have > more choices. > Karen > > On Sat, 5 Jun 2010, Allison Manzino wrote: > >> Wow, >> >> That is just amazing. I thought Freedom would have gone under a long time >> ago given their high prices and lack of tech support at least in my opinion. >> I think that people are tired of paying $1500 for a screen reader. I use >> Window-Eyes that is currently being paid off via a payment plan. But Jaws >> kept crashing on me after version 6. I hope they will get someone to take >> the project over, since I know that windows users outnumber Mac. If I >> remember correctly, and this was way back in the late nineties I believe, >> JFW used to be owned by Henter Joyce. They also own Blazie I think. I think >> this might finally level the playing field for all of us. I don't have >> anything against Freedom, I just want technology to be accessible and >> affordable for everyone. >> >> Allison >> >> On Jun 5, 2010, at 2:07 PM, Teresa Cochran wrote: >> >>> Well, it strikes me as being at the rumor and discussion level as of yet, >>> but I wouldn't be surprised to see FS move in that direction. Personally, I >>> won't be getting any more JAWS upgrades, and I'm perfectly happy with the >>> Mac and Alex. :) >>> >>> Teresa >>> On Jun 5, 2010, at 9:42 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote: >>> Off topic, but I feel everyone will be interested especially those people who run Fusion on their Macs. Begin forwarded message: > From: "Ibrahim Gucukoglu" > Date: June 5, 2010 9:36:33 AM GMT+01:00 > To: "Kawal Gucukoglu" > Subject: Fw: [bcab] End of Freedom? > > > - Original Message - From: "Colin r. Howard" > To: ; ; > ; ; > > Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 1:30 AM > Subject: [bcab] End of Freedom? > > >> Greetings, >> >> I am posting the main text from a thread just seen on the Blind Audio >> List >> which I am surprised not to have seen on the BCAB or AccessUK groups. >> >> Ought we to give much credence to this? >> >> I, for one, would welcome any comments from Sight and Sound. >> >> From: "Otto Zamora" >> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 05:44:14 -0400 >> >> Morning, >> >> In an advocate meeting yesterday, the subject came up reference Freedom >> Scientific, the company that among other things sports JFw. >> Because the company is in the state of Florida, it came up on a flag by >> an >> analyst. >> Seems this company is having bad money troubles, not surprising given the >> economy, but talk is that they are now looking to sell off some of their >> division, mainly their JFW area. >> I am not sure who if anyone will buy this division, considering that >> there >> is an entity now selling a fully integrated package for only $700. >> Besides a comprehensive screen reader, if the user chooses to get the >> package, there is a browser, along with a customed and fully accessible >> web >> sites, word processing, and E mail. >> all of this can apparently be accessed either on line, or as individual >> program. >> ad to that, the entertainment mogill, and you have a powerful tool indeed >> for the kind of money they are asking for. >> Another side of the equation is the apple company, now selling computers >> already with speech on board right out of the box and off the shelf.
Re: [bcab] End of Freedom?
I will reserve comment on Freedom Scientific as a company. While I too feel for those who will lose their jobs, I am more concerned for those who are emotionally attached to jfw. Those who feel they have no choice but to use windows. Those who are told that everyone uses jfw, and that you are not a good blind person if you are not using it. those who fear going through the training process again, if they ever got real training in the first place. Frankly I hope no one takes over the program. One of the blights on access is the assumption that say banks and other commercial companies make that if a site works with jfw, then it is fully accessible for all computer users experiencing vision loss. That came from the strangle hold jfw had on the state and government market. so removing the program all together opens the door indeed for a real accessible level playing field. something rooted in w3c suggestions, not on specific products. The adaptive market becomes one with many consumers making computer choices based on their individual tastes and desires, not a one size fits all lump of people. But someone is going to have to help those lost sheep know that they now have more choices. Karen On Sat, 5 Jun 2010, Allison Manzino wrote: Wow, That is just amazing. I thought Freedom would have gone under a long time ago given their high prices and lack of tech support at least in my opinion. I think that people are tired of paying $1500 for a screen reader. I use Window-Eyes that is currently being paid off via a payment plan. But Jaws kept crashing on me after version 6. I hope they will get someone to take the project over, since I know that windows users outnumber Mac. If I remember correctly, and this was way back in the late nineties I believe, JFW used to be owned by Henter Joyce. They also own Blazie I think. I think this might finally level the playing field for all of us. I don't have anything against Freedom, I just want technology to be accessible and affordable for everyone. Allison On Jun 5, 2010, at 2:07 PM, Teresa Cochran wrote: Well, it strikes me as being at the rumor and discussion level as of yet, but I wouldn't be surprised to see FS move in that direction. Personally, I won't be getting any more JAWS upgrades, and I'm perfectly happy with the Mac and Alex. :) Teresa On Jun 5, 2010, at 9:42 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote: Off topic, but I feel everyone will be interested especially those people who run Fusion on their Macs. Begin forwarded message: From: "Ibrahim Gucukoglu" Date: June 5, 2010 9:36:33 AM GMT+01:00 To: "Kawal Gucukoglu" Subject: Fw: [bcab] End of Freedom? - Original Message - From: "Colin r. Howard" To: ; ; ; ; Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 1:30 AM Subject: [bcab] End of Freedom? Greetings, I am posting the main text from a thread just seen on the Blind Audio List which I am surprised not to have seen on the BCAB or AccessUK groups. Ought we to give much credence to this? I, for one, would welcome any comments from Sight and Sound. From: "Otto Zamora" Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 05:44:14 -0400 Morning, In an advocate meeting yesterday, the subject came up reference Freedom Scientific, the company that among other things sports JFw. Because the company is in the state of Florida, it came up on a flag by an analyst. Seems this company is having bad money troubles, not surprising given the economy, but talk is that they are now looking to sell off some of their division, mainly their JFW area. I am not sure who if anyone will buy this division, considering that there is an entity now selling a fully integrated package for only $700. Besides a comprehensive screen reader, if the user chooses to get the package, there is a browser, along with a customed and fully accessible web sites, word processing, and E mail. all of this can apparently be accessed either on line, or as individual program. ad to that, the entertainment mogill, and you have a powerful tool indeed for the kind of money they are asking for. Another side of the equation is the apple company, now selling computers already with speech on board right out of the box and off the shelf. Put these two aspects together, and you have a deadly combo that might very well result in a abrupt end to the JFW program. Considering the way that technology is growing, older versions of JFW, will only work for a short while until the programs controlling the OS, begins to outgrow the application. In seeing this package, one of the things which was pointed out to me, was the learning curve, which for the new package being sold by Mr.. Mike Calvo, is very short. The user has the option to learn as little or as much as they want without real loss. From: "Alison Trelfa" Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 15:36:47 +0100 Hello, Otto, I wonder whether many jaws users would move to another speech program as yet as many of the packages that are not standard probably wouldn't be supported by the o
Re: [bcab] End of Freedom?
Wow, That is just amazing. I thought Freedom would have gone under a long time ago given their high prices and lack of tech support at least in my opinion. I think that people are tired of paying $1500 for a screen reader. I use Window-Eyes that is currently being paid off via a payment plan. But Jaws kept crashing on me after version 6. I hope they will get someone to take the project over, since I know that windows users outnumber Mac. If I remember correctly, and this was way back in the late nineties I believe, JFW used to be owned by Henter Joyce. They also own Blazie I think. I think this might finally level the playing field for all of us. I don't have anything against Freedom, I just want technology to be accessible and affordable for everyone. Allison On Jun 5, 2010, at 2:07 PM, Teresa Cochran wrote: > Well, it strikes me as being at the rumor and discussion level as of yet, but > I wouldn't be surprised to see FS move in that direction. Personally, I won't > be getting any more JAWS upgrades, and I'm perfectly happy with the Mac and > Alex. :) > > Teresa > On Jun 5, 2010, at 9:42 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote: > >> Off topic, but I feel everyone will be interested especially those people >> who run Fusion on their Macs. >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >>> From: "Ibrahim Gucukoglu" >>> Date: June 5, 2010 9:36:33 AM GMT+01:00 >>> To: "Kawal Gucukoglu" >>> Subject: Fw: [bcab] End of Freedom? >>> >>> >>> - Original Message - From: "Colin r. Howard" >>> To: ; ; >>> ; ; >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 1:30 AM >>> Subject: [bcab] End of Freedom? >>> >>> Greetings, I am posting the main text from a thread just seen on the Blind Audio List which I am surprised not to have seen on the BCAB or AccessUK groups. Ought we to give much credence to this? I, for one, would welcome any comments from Sight and Sound. From: "Otto Zamora" Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 05:44:14 -0400 Morning, In an advocate meeting yesterday, the subject came up reference Freedom Scientific, the company that among other things sports JFw. Because the company is in the state of Florida, it came up on a flag by an analyst. Seems this company is having bad money troubles, not surprising given the economy, but talk is that they are now looking to sell off some of their division, mainly their JFW area. I am not sure who if anyone will buy this division, considering that there is an entity now selling a fully integrated package for only $700. Besides a comprehensive screen reader, if the user chooses to get the package, there is a browser, along with a customed and fully accessible web sites, word processing, and E mail. all of this can apparently be accessed either on line, or as individual program. ad to that, the entertainment mogill, and you have a powerful tool indeed for the kind of money they are asking for. Another side of the equation is the apple company, now selling computers already with speech on board right out of the box and off the shelf. Put these two aspects together, and you have a deadly combo that might very well result in a abrupt end to the JFW program. Considering the way that technology is growing, older versions of JFW, will only work for a short while until the programs controlling the OS, begins to outgrow the application. In seeing this package, one of the things which was pointed out to me, was the learning curve, which for the new package being sold by Mr.. Mike Calvo, is very short. The user has the option to learn as little or as much as they want without real loss. From: "Alison Trelfa" Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 15:36:47 +0100 Hello, Otto, I wonder whether many jaws users would move to another speech program as yet as many of the packages that are not standard probably wouldn't be supported by the out of the box speech. I run Sonar and Sibelius 5.25, both of which are using scripts that have been written by folk who specialise not only in Jaws, but only in the two programs. I suppose those people who only need computers for basic commands may well get away with speech such as you describe, but I don't think that Jaws would just be dismissed out of hand because Freedom is going. I think Jaws has changed hands once before if I'm not mistaken? Correct me if I'm wrong there. I would be very sorry to see Jaws go under, but I'm not worried yet. There is a huge following for Jaws and I believe that someone would take it over. From: "Otto Zamora" Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 10:49:36 -0400 hi, You are correct, I am just stating that from what we were told, they are having a hard time finding someone who will take on the project
Re: [bcab] End of Freedom?
It is unfortunate that they will lose their jobs. However, it's probably better that they are not working for a greety company. One time I messed up my Jaws authorization floppy. I had to pay $20 for a replacement floppy. Yes, $20 for a floppy disk. This was after my parents paid about $1000 out of pocket for the software. I am glad that since I use Mac OS for my home computers, I don't have to worry about authorization keys. Therefore, it's no big deal if Freedom Science Fiction goes out of business. No, that wasn't a typo. On Jun 5, 2010, at 2:03 PM, Sarai Bucciarelli wrote: > I feel sorry for the people who will loose their jobs. > On Jun 5, 2010, at 12:22 PM, Courtney Curran wrote: > >> I certainly agree. Yay, yay, no more overpriced, unfair JAWS. >> Courtney >> >> On 05/06/2010, at 1:19 in the Afternoon, Olivia Norman wrote: >> >>> YAY! YAY! YAY! Goodbye Jaws! :) :) :) :) >>> "Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower" Steve Jobs >>> >>> On Jun 5, 2010, at 9:42 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote: >>> Off topic, but I feel everyone will be interested especially those people who run Fusion on their Macs. Begin forwarded message: > From: "Ibrahim Gucukoglu" > Date: June 5, 2010 9:36:33 AM GMT+01:00 > To: "Kawal Gucukoglu" > Subject: Fw: [bcab] End of Freedom? > > > - Original Message - From: "Colin r. Howard" > To: ; ; > ; ; > > Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 1:30 AM > Subject: [bcab] End of Freedom? > > >> Greetings, >> >> I am posting the main text from a thread just seen on the Blind Audio >> List >> which I am surprised not to have seen on the BCAB or AccessUK groups. >> >> Ought we to give much credence to this? >> >> I, for one, would welcome any comments from Sight and Sound. >> >> From: "Otto Zamora" >> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 05:44:14 -0400 >> >> Morning, >> >> In an advocate meeting yesterday, the subject came up reference Freedom >> Scientific, the company that among other things sports JFw. >> Because the company is in the state of Florida, it came up on a flag by >> an >> analyst. >> Seems this company is having bad money troubles, not surprising given the >> economy, but talk is that they are now looking to sell off some of their >> division, mainly their JFW area. >> I am not sure who if anyone will buy this division, considering that >> there >> is an entity now selling a fully integrated package for only $700. >> Besides a comprehensive screen reader, if the user chooses to get the >> package, there is a browser, along with a customed and fully accessible >> web >> sites, word processing, and E mail. >> all of this can apparently be accessed either on line, or as individual >> program. >> ad to that, the entertainment mogill, and you have a powerful tool indeed >> for the kind of money they are asking for. >> Another side of the equation is the apple company, now selling computers >> already with speech on board right out of the box and off the shelf. >> Put these two aspects together, and you have a deadly combo that might >> very >> well result in a abrupt end to the JFW program. >> Considering the way that technology is growing, older versions of JFW, >> will >> only work for a short while until the programs controlling the OS, >> begins to >> outgrow the application. >> In seeing this package, one of the things which was pointed out to me, >> was >> the learning curve, which for the new package being sold by Mr.. Mike >> Calvo, >> is very short. >> The user has the option to learn as little or as much as they want >> without >> real loss. From: "Alison Trelfa" >> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 15:36:47 +0100 >> >> Hello, Otto, >> >> I wonder whether many jaws users would move to another speech program as >> yet >> as many of the packages that are not standard probably wouldn't be >> supported >> by the out of the box speech. I run Sonar and Sibelius 5.25, both of >> which >> are using scripts that have been written by folk who specialise not only >> in >> Jaws, but only in the two programs. I suppose those people who only need >> computers for basic commands may well get away with speech such as you >> describe, but I don't think that Jaws would just be dismissed out of hand >> because Freedom is going. I think Jaws has changed hands once before if >> I'm >> not mistaken? Correct me if I'm wrong there. >> >> I would be very sorry to see Jaws go under, but I'm not worried yet. >> There >> is a huge following for Jaws and I believe that someone would take it >> over. >> >> From: "Otto Zamora" >> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 10:49:36 -0400 >
Re: [bcab] End of Freedom?
I too hope the owners of freedom will come to their senses. This could be the opportunity they need to reevaluate their product, their service, their mission, etc. and perhaps the selling off of the product might be best for the users of jaws. whatever company that aquires it won't be buying it just to remove a competitor. So, good workers may be able to continue on with the new owners. this is the time that those who care will work their hardest to shine in the eyes of current and potential future owners. I wish us all luck as the outcome affects all of us even the ones who choose mac over windows. thanks, Max On Jun 5, 2010, at 1:29 PM, Kaare Dehard wrote: I feel as sorry for the stupid or missinformed employers who will force the job losses. There are other windows based screen readers out there, some with plenty of scripting capabilities, such as window-eyes whos scripting fits more in to the modern age. We can't expect them all to addopt macs:) but we can pitty them their stupidity if they don't see that the wold wasn't created in 6 days for the blind by freedom:). On 2010-06-05, at 2:21 PM, Donna Goodin wrote: I agree with you. Donna On Jun 5, 2010, at 2:03 PM, Sarai Bucciarelli wrote: I feel sorry for the people who will loose their jobs. On Jun 5, 2010, at 12:22 PM, Courtney Curran wrote: I certainly agree. Yay, yay, no more overpriced, unfair JAWS. Courtney On 05/06/2010, at 1:19 in the Afternoon, Olivia Norman wrote: YAY! YAY! YAY! Goodbye Jaws! :) :) :) :) "Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower" Steve Jobs On Jun 5, 2010, at 9:42 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote: Off topic, but I feel everyone will be interested especially those people who run Fusion on their Macs. Begin forwarded message: From: "Ibrahim Gucukoglu" Date: June 5, 2010 9:36:33 AM GMT+01:00 To: "Kawal Gucukoglu" Subject: Fw: [bcab] End of Freedom? - Original Message - From: "Colin r. Howard" > To: ; ; >; ; Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 1:30 AM Subject: [bcab] End of Freedom? Greetings, I am posting the main text from a thread just seen on the Blind Audio List which I am surprised not to have seen on the BCAB or AccessUK groups. Ought we to give much credence to this? I, for one, would welcome any comments from Sight and Sound. From: "Otto Zamora" Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 05:44:14 -0400 Morning, In an advocate meeting yesterday, the subject came up reference Freedom Scientific, the company that among other things sports JFw. Because the company is in the state of Florida, it came up on a flag by an analyst. Seems this company is having bad money troubles, not surprising given the economy, but talk is that they are now looking to sell off some of their division, mainly their JFW area. I am not sure who if anyone will buy this division, considering that there is an entity now selling a fully integrated package for only $700. Besides a comprehensive screen reader, if the user chooses to get the package, there is a browser, along with a customed and fully accessible web sites, word processing, and E mail. all of this can apparently be accessed either on line, or as individual program. ad to that, the entertainment mogill, and you have a powerful tool indeed for the kind of money they are asking for. Another side of the equation is the apple company, now selling computers already with speech on board right out of the box and off the shelf. Put these two aspects together, and you have a deadly combo that might very well result in a abrupt end to the JFW program. Considering the way that technology is growing, older versions of JFW, will only work for a short while until the programs controlling the OS, begins to outgrow the application. In seeing this package, one of the things which was pointed out to me, was the learning curve, which for the new package being sold by Mr.. Mike Calvo, is very short. The user has the option to learn as little or as much as they want without real loss. From: "Alison Trelfa" Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 15:36:47 +0100 Hello, Otto, I wonder whether many jaws users would move to another speech program as yet as many of the packages that are not standard probably wouldn't be supported by the out of the box speech. I run Sonar and Sibelius 5.25, both of which are using scripts that have been written by folk who specialise not only in Jaws, but only in the two programs. I suppose those people who only need computers for basic commands may well get away with speech such as you describe, but I don't think that Jaws would just be dismissed out of hand because Freedom is going. I think Jaws has changed hands once before if I'm not mistaken? Correct me if I'm wrong there. I would be very sorry to see Jaws go under, but I'm not worried yet. There is a huge following for Jaws and I believe that someone would take it over. From: "Otto Zamora" Date: Fri, 4 J
Re: [bcab] End of Freedom?
Me too, but this follows a patern of extremely self-satisfied bloated companies beginning to count the money and ignore the market. It happened to artec technologies, and if you look at the late 80s and look at apple's performance until the return of s.j you could see the same sort of thing. On 2010-06-05, at 2:07 PM, Teresa Cochran wrote: > Well, it strikes me as being at the rumor and discussion level as of yet, but > I wouldn't be surprised to see FS move in that direction. Personally, I won't > be getting any more JAWS upgrades, and I'm perfectly happy with the Mac and > Alex. :) > > Teresa > On Jun 5, 2010, at 9:42 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote: > >> Off topic, but I feel everyone will be interested especially those people >> who run Fusion on their Macs. >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >>> From: "Ibrahim Gucukoglu" >>> Date: June 5, 2010 9:36:33 AM GMT+01:00 >>> To: "Kawal Gucukoglu" >>> Subject: Fw: [bcab] End of Freedom? >>> >>> >>> - Original Message - From: "Colin r. Howard" >>> To: ; ; >>> ; ; >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 1:30 AM >>> Subject: [bcab] End of Freedom? >>> >>> Greetings, I am posting the main text from a thread just seen on the Blind Audio List which I am surprised not to have seen on the BCAB or AccessUK groups. Ought we to give much credence to this? I, for one, would welcome any comments from Sight and Sound. From: "Otto Zamora" Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 05:44:14 -0400 Morning, In an advocate meeting yesterday, the subject came up reference Freedom Scientific, the company that among other things sports JFw. Because the company is in the state of Florida, it came up on a flag by an analyst. Seems this company is having bad money troubles, not surprising given the economy, but talk is that they are now looking to sell off some of their division, mainly their JFW area. I am not sure who if anyone will buy this division, considering that there is an entity now selling a fully integrated package for only $700. Besides a comprehensive screen reader, if the user chooses to get the package, there is a browser, along with a customed and fully accessible web sites, word processing, and E mail. all of this can apparently be accessed either on line, or as individual program. ad to that, the entertainment mogill, and you have a powerful tool indeed for the kind of money they are asking for. Another side of the equation is the apple company, now selling computers already with speech on board right out of the box and off the shelf. Put these two aspects together, and you have a deadly combo that might very well result in a abrupt end to the JFW program. Considering the way that technology is growing, older versions of JFW, will only work for a short while until the programs controlling the OS, begins to outgrow the application. In seeing this package, one of the things which was pointed out to me, was the learning curve, which for the new package being sold by Mr.. Mike Calvo, is very short. The user has the option to learn as little or as much as they want without real loss. From: "Alison Trelfa" Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 15:36:47 +0100 Hello, Otto, I wonder whether many jaws users would move to another speech program as yet as many of the packages that are not standard probably wouldn't be supported by the out of the box speech. I run Sonar and Sibelius 5.25, both of which are using scripts that have been written by folk who specialise not only in Jaws, but only in the two programs. I suppose those people who only need computers for basic commands may well get away with speech such as you describe, but I don't think that Jaws would just be dismissed out of hand because Freedom is going. I think Jaws has changed hands once before if I'm not mistaken? Correct me if I'm wrong there. I would be very sorry to see Jaws go under, but I'm not worried yet. There is a huge following for Jaws and I believe that someone would take it over. From: "Otto Zamora" Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 10:49:36 -0400 hi, You are correct, I am just stating that from what we were told, they are having a hard time finding someone who will take on the project,especially since as you point out, most people are not using anything that is high end, and from what we also have heard, people are tired of having to pay $1500 and change, when there now is a program which will do speech and more for only $700. Given the economy, for many people, the sedition may be financial. From: Geoff Long Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2010 16:20:04 +0100 Hi Alison, I wonder how many JAWS users have to pay f
Re: [bcab] End of Freedom?
I feel as sorry for the stupid or missinformed employers who will force the job losses. There are other windows based screen readers out there, some with plenty of scripting capabilities, such as window-eyes whos scripting fits more in to the modern age. We can't expect them all to addopt macs:) but we can pitty them their stupidity if they don't see that the wold wasn't created in 6 days for the blind by freedom:). On 2010-06-05, at 2:21 PM, Donna Goodin wrote: > I agree with you. > Donna > On Jun 5, 2010, at 2:03 PM, Sarai Bucciarelli wrote: > >> I feel sorry for the people who will loose their jobs. >> On Jun 5, 2010, at 12:22 PM, Courtney Curran wrote: >> >>> I certainly agree. Yay, yay, no more overpriced, unfair JAWS. >>> Courtney >>> >>> On 05/06/2010, at 1:19 in the Afternoon, Olivia Norman wrote: >>> YAY! YAY! YAY! Goodbye Jaws! :) :) :) :) "Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower" Steve Jobs On Jun 5, 2010, at 9:42 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote: > Off topic, but I feel everyone will be interested especially those people > who run Fusion on their Macs. > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: "Ibrahim Gucukoglu" >> Date: June 5, 2010 9:36:33 AM GMT+01:00 >> To: "Kawal Gucukoglu" >> Subject: Fw: [bcab] End of Freedom? >> >> >> - Original Message - From: "Colin r. Howard" >> To: ; ; >> ; ; >> >> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 1:30 AM >> Subject: [bcab] End of Freedom? >> >> >>> Greetings, >>> >>> I am posting the main text from a thread just seen on the Blind Audio >>> List >>> which I am surprised not to have seen on the BCAB or AccessUK groups. >>> >>> Ought we to give much credence to this? >>> >>> I, for one, would welcome any comments from Sight and Sound. >>> >>> From: "Otto Zamora" >>> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 05:44:14 -0400 >>> >>> Morning, >>> >>> In an advocate meeting yesterday, the subject came up reference Freedom >>> Scientific, the company that among other things sports JFw. >>> Because the company is in the state of Florida, it came up on a flag >>> by an >>> analyst. >>> Seems this company is having bad money troubles, not surprising given >>> the >>> economy, but talk is that they are now looking to sell off some of their >>> division, mainly their JFW area. >>> I am not sure who if anyone will buy this division, considering that >>> there >>> is an entity now selling a fully integrated package for only $700. >>> Besides a comprehensive screen reader, if the user chooses to get the >>> package, there is a browser, along with a customed and fully accessible >>> web >>> sites, word processing, and E mail. >>> all of this can apparently be accessed either on line, or as individual >>> program. >>> ad to that, the entertainment mogill, and you have a powerful tool >>> indeed >>> for the kind of money they are asking for. >>> Another side of the equation is the apple company, now selling computers >>> already with speech on board right out of the box and off the shelf. >>> Put these two aspects together, and you have a deadly combo that might >>> very >>> well result in a abrupt end to the JFW program. >>> Considering the way that technology is growing, older versions of JFW, >>> will >>> only work for a short while until the programs controlling the OS, >>> begins to >>> outgrow the application. >>> In seeing this package, one of the things which was pointed out to me, >>> was >>> the learning curve, which for the new package being sold by Mr.. Mike >>> Calvo, >>> is very short. >>> The user has the option to learn as little or as much as they want >>> without >>> real loss. From: "Alison Trelfa" >>> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 15:36:47 +0100 >>> >>> Hello, Otto, >>> >>> I wonder whether many jaws users would move to another speech program >>> as yet >>> as many of the packages that are not standard probably wouldn't be >>> supported >>> by the out of the box speech. I run Sonar and Sibelius 5.25, both of >>> which >>> are using scripts that have been written by folk who specialise not >>> only in >>> Jaws, but only in the two programs. I suppose those people who only need >>> computers for basic commands may well get away with speech such as you >>> describe, but I don't think that Jaws would just be dismissed out of >>> hand >>> because Freedom is going. I think Jaws has changed hands once before if >>> I'm >>> not mistaken? Correct me if I'm wrong there. >>> >>> I would be very sorry to see Jaws go under, but I'm not worried yet. >>> There >>> is a huge following for Jaws and I believe that someone would take it >>>
Re: [bcab] End of Freedom?
Well, it strikes me as being at the rumor and discussion level as of yet, but I wouldn't be surprised to see FS move in that direction. Personally, I won't be getting any more JAWS upgrades, and I'm perfectly happy with the Mac and Alex. :) Teresa On Jun 5, 2010, at 9:42 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote: > Off topic, but I feel everyone will be interested especially those people who > run Fusion on their Macs. > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: "Ibrahim Gucukoglu" >> Date: June 5, 2010 9:36:33 AM GMT+01:00 >> To: "Kawal Gucukoglu" >> Subject: Fw: [bcab] End of Freedom? >> >> >> - Original Message - From: "Colin r. Howard" >> To: ; ; >> ; ; >> >> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 1:30 AM >> Subject: [bcab] End of Freedom? >> >> >>> Greetings, >>> >>> I am posting the main text from a thread just seen on the Blind Audio List >>> which I am surprised not to have seen on the BCAB or AccessUK groups. >>> >>> Ought we to give much credence to this? >>> >>> I, for one, would welcome any comments from Sight and Sound. >>> >>> From: "Otto Zamora" >>> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 05:44:14 -0400 >>> >>> Morning, >>> >>> In an advocate meeting yesterday, the subject came up reference Freedom >>> Scientific, the company that among other things sports JFw. >>> Because the company is in the state of Florida, it came up on a flag by an >>> analyst. >>> Seems this company is having bad money troubles, not surprising given the >>> economy, but talk is that they are now looking to sell off some of their >>> division, mainly their JFW area. >>> I am not sure who if anyone will buy this division, considering that there >>> is an entity now selling a fully integrated package for only $700. >>> Besides a comprehensive screen reader, if the user chooses to get the >>> package, there is a browser, along with a customed and fully accessible web >>> sites, word processing, and E mail. >>> all of this can apparently be accessed either on line, or as individual >>> program. >>> ad to that, the entertainment mogill, and you have a powerful tool indeed >>> for the kind of money they are asking for. >>> Another side of the equation is the apple company, now selling computers >>> already with speech on board right out of the box and off the shelf. >>> Put these two aspects together, and you have a deadly combo that might very >>> well result in a abrupt end to the JFW program. >>> Considering the way that technology is growing, older versions of JFW, will >>> only work for a short while until the programs controlling the OS, begins to >>> outgrow the application. >>> In seeing this package, one of the things which was pointed out to me, was >>> the learning curve, which for the new package being sold by Mr.. Mike Calvo, >>> is very short. >>> The user has the option to learn as little or as much as they want without >>> real loss. From: "Alison Trelfa" >>> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 15:36:47 +0100 >>> >>> Hello, Otto, >>> >>> I wonder whether many jaws users would move to another speech program as yet >>> as many of the packages that are not standard probably wouldn't be supported >>> by the out of the box speech. I run Sonar and Sibelius 5.25, both of which >>> are using scripts that have been written by folk who specialise not only in >>> Jaws, but only in the two programs. I suppose those people who only need >>> computers for basic commands may well get away with speech such as you >>> describe, but I don't think that Jaws would just be dismissed out of hand >>> because Freedom is going. I think Jaws has changed hands once before if I'm >>> not mistaken? Correct me if I'm wrong there. >>> >>> I would be very sorry to see Jaws go under, but I'm not worried yet. There >>> is a huge following for Jaws and I believe that someone would take it over. >>> >>> From: "Otto Zamora" >>> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 10:49:36 -0400 >>> >>> hi, >>> >>> You are correct, I am just stating that from what we were told, they are >>> having a hard time finding someone who will take on the project,especially >>> since as you point out, most people are not using anything that is high >>> end, and from what we also have heard, people are tired of having to pay >>> $1500 and change, when there now is a program which will do speech and more >>> for only $700. >>> Given the economy, for many people, the sedition may be financial. >>> >>> >>> From: Geoff Long >>> Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2010 16:20:04 +0100 >>> >>> Hi Alison, I wonder how many JAWS users have to >>> pay for their own equipment. I use window-eyes, >>> which is considerably less expensive, and as I >>> had to pay for my training and kit from my own >>> pocket, it makes a big difference. >>> >>> From: "Dr Norman Waddington" >>> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 16:36:22 +0100 >>> >>> Hi Geoff, >>> >>> I need no introduction to you on this list. >>> >>> I am a Jaws user and have paid all the way through out of my own pocket from >>> version 3.5 methinks if I remember correctly. >>> >>> >
Re: [bcab] End of Freedom?
I agree with you. Donna On Jun 5, 2010, at 2:03 PM, Sarai Bucciarelli wrote: > I feel sorry for the people who will loose their jobs. > On Jun 5, 2010, at 12:22 PM, Courtney Curran wrote: > >> I certainly agree. Yay, yay, no more overpriced, unfair JAWS. >> Courtney >> >> On 05/06/2010, at 1:19 in the Afternoon, Olivia Norman wrote: >> >>> YAY! YAY! YAY! Goodbye Jaws! :) :) :) :) >>> "Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower" Steve Jobs >>> >>> On Jun 5, 2010, at 9:42 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote: >>> Off topic, but I feel everyone will be interested especially those people who run Fusion on their Macs. Begin forwarded message: > From: "Ibrahim Gucukoglu" > Date: June 5, 2010 9:36:33 AM GMT+01:00 > To: "Kawal Gucukoglu" > Subject: Fw: [bcab] End of Freedom? > > > - Original Message - From: "Colin r. Howard" > To: ; ; > ; ; > > Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 1:30 AM > Subject: [bcab] End of Freedom? > > >> Greetings, >> >> I am posting the main text from a thread just seen on the Blind Audio >> List >> which I am surprised not to have seen on the BCAB or AccessUK groups. >> >> Ought we to give much credence to this? >> >> I, for one, would welcome any comments from Sight and Sound. >> >> From: "Otto Zamora" >> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 05:44:14 -0400 >> >> Morning, >> >> In an advocate meeting yesterday, the subject came up reference Freedom >> Scientific, the company that among other things sports JFw. >> Because the company is in the state of Florida, it came up on a flag by >> an >> analyst. >> Seems this company is having bad money troubles, not surprising given the >> economy, but talk is that they are now looking to sell off some of their >> division, mainly their JFW area. >> I am not sure who if anyone will buy this division, considering that >> there >> is an entity now selling a fully integrated package for only $700. >> Besides a comprehensive screen reader, if the user chooses to get the >> package, there is a browser, along with a customed and fully accessible >> web >> sites, word processing, and E mail. >> all of this can apparently be accessed either on line, or as individual >> program. >> ad to that, the entertainment mogill, and you have a powerful tool indeed >> for the kind of money they are asking for. >> Another side of the equation is the apple company, now selling computers >> already with speech on board right out of the box and off the shelf. >> Put these two aspects together, and you have a deadly combo that might >> very >> well result in a abrupt end to the JFW program. >> Considering the way that technology is growing, older versions of JFW, >> will >> only work for a short while until the programs controlling the OS, >> begins to >> outgrow the application. >> In seeing this package, one of the things which was pointed out to me, >> was >> the learning curve, which for the new package being sold by Mr.. Mike >> Calvo, >> is very short. >> The user has the option to learn as little or as much as they want >> without >> real loss. From: "Alison Trelfa" >> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 15:36:47 +0100 >> >> Hello, Otto, >> >> I wonder whether many jaws users would move to another speech program as >> yet >> as many of the packages that are not standard probably wouldn't be >> supported >> by the out of the box speech. I run Sonar and Sibelius 5.25, both of >> which >> are using scripts that have been written by folk who specialise not only >> in >> Jaws, but only in the two programs. I suppose those people who only need >> computers for basic commands may well get away with speech such as you >> describe, but I don't think that Jaws would just be dismissed out of hand >> because Freedom is going. I think Jaws has changed hands once before if >> I'm >> not mistaken? Correct me if I'm wrong there. >> >> I would be very sorry to see Jaws go under, but I'm not worried yet. >> There >> is a huge following for Jaws and I believe that someone would take it >> over. >> >> From: "Otto Zamora" >> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 10:49:36 -0400 >> >> hi, >> >> You are correct, I am just stating that from what we were told, they are >> having a hard time finding someone who will take on the >> project,especially >> since as you point out, most people are not using anything that is high >> end, and from what we also have heard, people are tired of having to pay >> $1500 and change, when there now is a program which will do speech and >> more >> for only $700. >> Given the economy, for many people, the seditio
Re: [bcab] End of Freedom?
I feel sorry for the people who will loose their jobs. On Jun 5, 2010, at 12:22 PM, Courtney Curran wrote: > I certainly agree. Yay, yay, no more overpriced, unfair JAWS. > Courtney > > On 05/06/2010, at 1:19 in the Afternoon, Olivia Norman wrote: > >> YAY! YAY! YAY! Goodbye Jaws! :) :) :) :) >> "Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower" Steve Jobs >> >> On Jun 5, 2010, at 9:42 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote: >> >>> Off topic, but I feel everyone will be interested especially those people >>> who run Fusion on their Macs. >>> >>> Begin forwarded message: >>> From: "Ibrahim Gucukoglu" Date: June 5, 2010 9:36:33 AM GMT+01:00 To: "Kawal Gucukoglu" Subject: Fw: [bcab] End of Freedom? - Original Message - From: "Colin r. Howard" To: ; ; ; ; Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 1:30 AM Subject: [bcab] End of Freedom? > Greetings, > > I am posting the main text from a thread just seen on the Blind Audio List > which I am surprised not to have seen on the BCAB or AccessUK groups. > > Ought we to give much credence to this? > > I, for one, would welcome any comments from Sight and Sound. > > From: "Otto Zamora" > Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 05:44:14 -0400 > > Morning, > > In an advocate meeting yesterday, the subject came up reference Freedom > Scientific, the company that among other things sports JFw. > Because the company is in the state of Florida, it came up on a flag by > an > analyst. > Seems this company is having bad money troubles, not surprising given the > economy, but talk is that they are now looking to sell off some of their > division, mainly their JFW area. > I am not sure who if anyone will buy this division, considering that there > is an entity now selling a fully integrated package for only $700. > Besides a comprehensive screen reader, if the user chooses to get the > package, there is a browser, along with a customed and fully accessible > web > sites, word processing, and E mail. > all of this can apparently be accessed either on line, or as individual > program. > ad to that, the entertainment mogill, and you have a powerful tool indeed > for the kind of money they are asking for. > Another side of the equation is the apple company, now selling computers > already with speech on board right out of the box and off the shelf. > Put these two aspects together, and you have a deadly combo that might > very > well result in a abrupt end to the JFW program. > Considering the way that technology is growing, older versions of JFW, > will > only work for a short while until the programs controlling the OS, begins > to > outgrow the application. > In seeing this package, one of the things which was pointed out to me, was > the learning curve, which for the new package being sold by Mr.. Mike > Calvo, > is very short. > The user has the option to learn as little or as much as they want without > real loss. From: "Alison Trelfa" > Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 15:36:47 +0100 > > Hello, Otto, > > I wonder whether many jaws users would move to another speech program as > yet > as many of the packages that are not standard probably wouldn't be > supported > by the out of the box speech. I run Sonar and Sibelius 5.25, both of which > are using scripts that have been written by folk who specialise not only > in > Jaws, but only in the two programs. I suppose those people who only need > computers for basic commands may well get away with speech such as you > describe, but I don't think that Jaws would just be dismissed out of hand > because Freedom is going. I think Jaws has changed hands once before if > I'm > not mistaken? Correct me if I'm wrong there. > > I would be very sorry to see Jaws go under, but I'm not worried yet. There > is a huge following for Jaws and I believe that someone would take it > over. > > From: "Otto Zamora" > Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 10:49:36 -0400 > > hi, > > You are correct, I am just stating that from what we were told, they are > having a hard time finding someone who will take on the project,especially > since as you point out, most people are not using anything that is high > end, and from what we also have heard, people are tired of having to pay > $1500 and change, when there now is a program which will do speech and > more > for only $700. > Given the economy, for many people, the sedition may be financial. > > > From: Geoff Long > Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2010 16:20:04 +0100 > > Hi Alison, I wonder how many JAWS users have to > pay for their own equipment. I use window-eyes, > which is considerably less e
Re: [bcab] End of Freedom?
I certainly agree. Yay, yay, no more overpriced, unfair JAWS. Courtney On 05/06/2010, at 1:19 in the Afternoon, Olivia Norman wrote: > YAY! YAY! YAY! Goodbye Jaws! :) :) :) :) > "Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower" Steve Jobs > > On Jun 5, 2010, at 9:42 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote: > >> Off topic, but I feel everyone will be interested especially those people >> who run Fusion on their Macs. >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >>> From: "Ibrahim Gucukoglu" >>> Date: June 5, 2010 9:36:33 AM GMT+01:00 >>> To: "Kawal Gucukoglu" >>> Subject: Fw: [bcab] End of Freedom? >>> >>> >>> - Original Message - From: "Colin r. Howard" >>> To: ; ; >>> ; ; >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 1:30 AM >>> Subject: [bcab] End of Freedom? >>> >>> Greetings, I am posting the main text from a thread just seen on the Blind Audio List which I am surprised not to have seen on the BCAB or AccessUK groups. Ought we to give much credence to this? I, for one, would welcome any comments from Sight and Sound. From: "Otto Zamora" Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 05:44:14 -0400 Morning, In an advocate meeting yesterday, the subject came up reference Freedom Scientific, the company that among other things sports JFw. Because the company is in the state of Florida, it came up on a flag by an analyst. Seems this company is having bad money troubles, not surprising given the economy, but talk is that they are now looking to sell off some of their division, mainly their JFW area. I am not sure who if anyone will buy this division, considering that there is an entity now selling a fully integrated package for only $700. Besides a comprehensive screen reader, if the user chooses to get the package, there is a browser, along with a customed and fully accessible web sites, word processing, and E mail. all of this can apparently be accessed either on line, or as individual program. ad to that, the entertainment mogill, and you have a powerful tool indeed for the kind of money they are asking for. Another side of the equation is the apple company, now selling computers already with speech on board right out of the box and off the shelf. Put these two aspects together, and you have a deadly combo that might very well result in a abrupt end to the JFW program. Considering the way that technology is growing, older versions of JFW, will only work for a short while until the programs controlling the OS, begins to outgrow the application. In seeing this package, one of the things which was pointed out to me, was the learning curve, which for the new package being sold by Mr.. Mike Calvo, is very short. The user has the option to learn as little or as much as they want without real loss. From: "Alison Trelfa" Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 15:36:47 +0100 Hello, Otto, I wonder whether many jaws users would move to another speech program as yet as many of the packages that are not standard probably wouldn't be supported by the out of the box speech. I run Sonar and Sibelius 5.25, both of which are using scripts that have been written by folk who specialise not only in Jaws, but only in the two programs. I suppose those people who only need computers for basic commands may well get away with speech such as you describe, but I don't think that Jaws would just be dismissed out of hand because Freedom is going. I think Jaws has changed hands once before if I'm not mistaken? Correct me if I'm wrong there. I would be very sorry to see Jaws go under, but I'm not worried yet. There is a huge following for Jaws and I believe that someone would take it over. From: "Otto Zamora" Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 10:49:36 -0400 hi, You are correct, I am just stating that from what we were told, they are having a hard time finding someone who will take on the project,especially since as you point out, most people are not using anything that is high end, and from what we also have heard, people are tired of having to pay $1500 and change, when there now is a program which will do speech and more for only $700. Given the economy, for many people, the sedition may be financial. From: Geoff Long Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2010 16:20:04 +0100 Hi Alison, I wonder how many JAWS users have to pay for their own equipment. I use window-eyes, which is considerably less expensive, and as I had to pay for my training and kit from my own pocket, it makes a big difference. From: "Dr Norman Waddington" Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 16:36:22 +0100 Hi Geoff, I need no introduction to you on this list.
Re: [bcab] End of Freedom?
YAY! YAY! YAY! Goodbye Jaws! :) :) :) :) "Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower" Steve Jobs On Jun 5, 2010, at 9:42 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote: > Off topic, but I feel everyone will be interested especially those people who > run Fusion on their Macs. > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: "Ibrahim Gucukoglu" >> Date: June 5, 2010 9:36:33 AM GMT+01:00 >> To: "Kawal Gucukoglu" >> Subject: Fw: [bcab] End of Freedom? >> >> >> - Original Message - From: "Colin r. Howard" >> To: ; ; >> ; ; >> >> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 1:30 AM >> Subject: [bcab] End of Freedom? >> >> >>> Greetings, >>> >>> I am posting the main text from a thread just seen on the Blind Audio List >>> which I am surprised not to have seen on the BCAB or AccessUK groups. >>> >>> Ought we to give much credence to this? >>> >>> I, for one, would welcome any comments from Sight and Sound. >>> >>> From: "Otto Zamora" >>> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 05:44:14 -0400 >>> >>> Morning, >>> >>> In an advocate meeting yesterday, the subject came up reference Freedom >>> Scientific, the company that among other things sports JFw. >>> Because the company is in the state of Florida, it came up on a flag by an >>> analyst. >>> Seems this company is having bad money troubles, not surprising given the >>> economy, but talk is that they are now looking to sell off some of their >>> division, mainly their JFW area. >>> I am not sure who if anyone will buy this division, considering that there >>> is an entity now selling a fully integrated package for only $700. >>> Besides a comprehensive screen reader, if the user chooses to get the >>> package, there is a browser, along with a customed and fully accessible web >>> sites, word processing, and E mail. >>> all of this can apparently be accessed either on line, or as individual >>> program. >>> ad to that, the entertainment mogill, and you have a powerful tool indeed >>> for the kind of money they are asking for. >>> Another side of the equation is the apple company, now selling computers >>> already with speech on board right out of the box and off the shelf. >>> Put these two aspects together, and you have a deadly combo that might very >>> well result in a abrupt end to the JFW program. >>> Considering the way that technology is growing, older versions of JFW, will >>> only work for a short while until the programs controlling the OS, begins to >>> outgrow the application. >>> In seeing this package, one of the things which was pointed out to me, was >>> the learning curve, which for the new package being sold by Mr.. Mike Calvo, >>> is very short. >>> The user has the option to learn as little or as much as they want without >>> real loss. From: "Alison Trelfa" >>> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 15:36:47 +0100 >>> >>> Hello, Otto, >>> >>> I wonder whether many jaws users would move to another speech program as yet >>> as many of the packages that are not standard probably wouldn't be supported >>> by the out of the box speech. I run Sonar and Sibelius 5.25, both of which >>> are using scripts that have been written by folk who specialise not only in >>> Jaws, but only in the two programs. I suppose those people who only need >>> computers for basic commands may well get away with speech such as you >>> describe, but I don't think that Jaws would just be dismissed out of hand >>> because Freedom is going. I think Jaws has changed hands once before if I'm >>> not mistaken? Correct me if I'm wrong there. >>> >>> I would be very sorry to see Jaws go under, but I'm not worried yet. There >>> is a huge following for Jaws and I believe that someone would take it over. >>> >>> From: "Otto Zamora" >>> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 10:49:36 -0400 >>> >>> hi, >>> >>> You are correct, I am just stating that from what we were told, they are >>> having a hard time finding someone who will take on the project,especially >>> since as you point out, most people are not using anything that is high >>> end, and from what we also have heard, people are tired of having to pay >>> $1500 and change, when there now is a program which will do speech and more >>> for only $700. >>> Given the economy, for many people, the sedition may be financial. >>> >>> >>> From: Geoff Long >>> Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2010 16:20:04 +0100 >>> >>> Hi Alison, I wonder how many JAWS users have to >>> pay for their own equipment. I use window-eyes, >>> which is considerably less expensive, and as I >>> had to pay for my training and kit from my own >>> pocket, it makes a big difference. >>> >>> From: "Dr Norman Waddington" >>> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 16:36:22 +0100 >>> >>> Hi Geoff, >>> >>> I need no introduction to you on this list. >>> >>> I am a Jaws user and have paid all the way through out of my own pocket from >>> version 3.5 methinks if I remember correctly. >>> >>> >>> From: Anders Holmberg >>> Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2010 17:37:37 +0200 >>> >>> Hello! >>> Also we have nvda as a very good and free alternativ
Re: [bcab] End of Freedom?
Just to add to this, this week I inherited a PC that my husband isn't using. It's a fairly new computer running Windows 7, and I've been trying to install JAWS on it since Wednesday, with absolutely no luck at all, and this has included a one hour call to FS tech support. In the interim, I've been running System Access over the internet, just to have some speech on the machine. Having had this experience, I would be hard-pressed ever to recommend JAWS over simply getting a Mac again. I hope Apple does give FS a run for their money. If this is the best FS can do, they deserve to lose out, whether to Apple, or to a group like Serotek. Cheers, Donna On Jun 5, 2010, at 12:42 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote: > Off topic, but I feel everyone will be interested especially those people who > run Fusion on their Macs. > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: "Ibrahim Gucukoglu" >> Date: June 5, 2010 9:36:33 AM GMT+01:00 >> To: "Kawal Gucukoglu" >> Subject: Fw: [bcab] End of Freedom? >> >> >> - Original Message - From: "Colin r. Howard" >> To: ; ; >> ; ; >> >> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 1:30 AM >> Subject: [bcab] End of Freedom? >> >> >>> Greetings, >>> >>> I am posting the main text from a thread just seen on the Blind Audio List >>> which I am surprised not to have seen on the BCAB or AccessUK groups. >>> >>> Ought we to give much credence to this? >>> >>> I, for one, would welcome any comments from Sight and Sound. >>> >>> From: "Otto Zamora" >>> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 05:44:14 -0400 >>> >>> Morning, >>> >>> In an advocate meeting yesterday, the subject came up reference Freedom >>> Scientific, the company that among other things sports JFw. >>> Because the company is in the state of Florida, it came up on a flag by an >>> analyst. >>> Seems this company is having bad money troubles, not surprising given the >>> economy, but talk is that they are now looking to sell off some of their >>> division, mainly their JFW area. >>> I am not sure who if anyone will buy this division, considering that there >>> is an entity now selling a fully integrated package for only $700. >>> Besides a comprehensive screen reader, if the user chooses to get the >>> package, there is a browser, along with a customed and fully accessible web >>> sites, word processing, and E mail. >>> all of this can apparently be accessed either on line, or as individual >>> program. >>> ad to that, the entertainment mogill, and you have a powerful tool indeed >>> for the kind of money they are asking for. >>> Another side of the equation is the apple company, now selling computers >>> already with speech on board right out of the box and off the shelf. >>> Put these two aspects together, and you have a deadly combo that might very >>> well result in a abrupt end to the JFW program. >>> Considering the way that technology is growing, older versions of JFW, will >>> only work for a short while until the programs controlling the OS, begins to >>> outgrow the application. >>> In seeing this package, one of the things which was pointed out to me, was >>> the learning curve, which for the new package being sold by Mr.. Mike Calvo, >>> is very short. >>> The user has the option to learn as little or as much as they want without >>> real loss. From: "Alison Trelfa" >>> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 15:36:47 +0100 >>> >>> Hello, Otto, >>> >>> I wonder whether many jaws users would move to another speech program as yet >>> as many of the packages that are not standard probably wouldn't be supported >>> by the out of the box speech. I run Sonar and Sibelius 5.25, both of which >>> are using scripts that have been written by folk who specialise not only in >>> Jaws, but only in the two programs. I suppose those people who only need >>> computers for basic commands may well get away with speech such as you >>> describe, but I don't think that Jaws would just be dismissed out of hand >>> because Freedom is going. I think Jaws has changed hands once before if I'm >>> not mistaken? Correct me if I'm wrong there. >>> >>> I would be very sorry to see Jaws go under, but I'm not worried yet. There >>> is a huge following for Jaws and I believe that someone would take it over. >>> >>> From: "Otto Zamora" >>> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 10:49:36 -0400 >>> >>> hi, >>> >>> You are correct, I am just stating that from what we were told, they are >>> having a hard time finding someone who will take on the project,especially >>> since as you point out, most people are not using anything that is high >>> end, and from what we also have heard, people are tired of having to pay >>> $1500 and change, when there now is a program which will do speech and more >>> for only $700. >>> Given the economy, for many people, the sedition may be financial. >>> >>> >>> From: Geoff Long >>> Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2010 16:20:04 +0100 >>> >>> Hi Alison, I wonder how many JAWS users have to >>> pay for their own equipment. I use window-eyes, >>> which is considera
