Re: New to MacBook. Seeking advice on strategies for developing competence.

[Karen Lewellen]

Hi,
May I ask what format things if not in written form?
appreciated, just want to insure I can access the content before 
downloading.

Thanks,
Karen



On Thu, 8 Dec 2022, Herbie Allen wrote:


Here is a link to all the classes that was based on Catalina: 
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8ncda1k5dqhsg9b/AABTfPHDETm_BIJNX3maZf9ka?dl=1
The first few at least have some transcripts as well. I do still have a Mac 
running that OS and I will be able to answer questions.

On Dec 8, 2022, at 15:55, Karen Lewellen  wrote:

That is fine, so Long as they are correct, and in a file form.
Its interesting, apple accessibility and I have enjoyed more than a few 
conversations about why they skipped the previously available documentation  in 
stand alone form for Catalina.
Karen



On Thu, 8 Dec 2022, Herbie Allen wrote:


I might be able to give you some old training material regarding Catalina, but 
most things are the same. Messages and calendar are vastly different, and mail 
has some minor changes and you may have a slightly different look with System 
preferences.


On Dec 8, 2022, at 15:36, Karen Lewellen  wrote:

may I ask how much this data connects with Catalina?
Finding it personally frustrating,  and would welcome a solid outside of the 
system itself resource.  Or better still  an in person teacher whom I am happy 
to pay.



On Thu, 8 Dec 2022, Janet Ingber wrote:


Hi Devin,

My book about the Mac is available on the National Braille Press website. 
However, it is about the basics of using the Mac and information about the Big 
Sur operating system. NBP does not update the book annually. Here???s the link:
https://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/MAC-BASICS-2021.html?from_search=1

Hope this helps.
Janet


On Dec 8, 2022, at 9:21 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

For the person who mentioned that they have written books on MacOS and 
VoiceOver, are those on National Braille Press, or somewhere else?

Devin Prater


On Dec 6, 2022, at 6:17 PM, Marlene Kramer  wrote:

???thanks so very much to all who replied.
you???re supportive encouragements give me optimism! This is much better than 
the sense of dread I was developing.
you all have been most helpful.
I am sure I will have many questions to follow, but I will not be shy in 
posting them.
Best to all, Marlene.



On Dec 5, 2022, at 4:28 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

???Apple's online documentation is also useful. I would suggest this page 
(summarizing Mac OS keyboard commands):
https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT201236


On 6/12/22 06:52, bbsshawn via MacVisionaries wrote:

Hi Marlene. Welcome to the group and welcome to the Mac. I've been a Mac user 
for 12 years. When I got my first Mac which was a white polycarbon plastic 
MacBook running Snow Leopard, I sold my Lenovo PC the same day so I was forced 
to learn the Mac. It took me two weeks to learn the OS and I've been loving the 
Mac ever since. Someone said on this list a while ago that if you really want 
to learn how to use this platform, you should forget everything you know about 
Windows and to not use your PC as a crutch when you're frustrated with the Mac. 
They were great words and I took them to heart. I think that's why I'm very 
good at it. Also, along with this list, I have a Whatsapp group called Mac 
Users and Newbies which is also a great group. If you'd like to be added and if 
you're on a mobile phone such as iOS or Android, you can send me your contact 
information and I'll put you in the group. Enjoy the Mac.

Shawn


On Dec 5, 2022, at 7:02 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:


That???s probably true.
Cheers,
Donna



On Dec 4, 2022, at 7:02 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:




On Dec 5, 2022, at 00:00, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

I don???t know why either, but that was certainly the case for me.  I think 
it???s because there are concepts in the Appleverse that aren???t part of 
Windows, such as interacting, and quicknav.  Also, in my case, I???d been a PC 
user for about twenty years.  So there were a lot of things that were basically 
hard-wired, and I had to relearn them.

For me, it started with Apple II in the 1980s, then MS-DOS in the early 90s, 
then UNIX in the 90s (a Sun clone), followed by Linux - both at the text 
console and later the graphical user interface as well. This was followed by 
Android, iOS, and then Mac OS. I didn???t have any trouble learning Mac OS, as 
I recall.
After that came Windows, learned ???mostly on the job??? in a work environment, 
and some opportunities to experiment a little with Chrome OS (but not to learn 
it properly).
My only conclusion is that having learned to use several different systems 
already makes the next one easier to learn.

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 

Re: New to MacBook. Seeking advice on strategies for developing competence.

[Herbie Allen]

Here is a link to all the classes that was based on Catalina: 
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8ncda1k5dqhsg9b/AABTfPHDETm_BIJNX3maZf9ka?dl=1
 The first few at least have some transcripts as well. I do still have a Mac 
running that OS and I will be able to answer questions.
> On Dec 8, 2022, at 15:55, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
> 
> That is fine, so Long as they are correct, and in a file form.
> Its interesting, apple accessibility and I have enjoyed more than a few 
> conversations about why they skipped the previously available documentation  
> in stand alone form for Catalina.
> Karen
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, 8 Dec 2022, Herbie Allen wrote:
> 
>> I might be able to give you some old training material regarding Catalina, 
>> but most things are the same. Messages and calendar are vastly different, 
>> and mail has some minor changes and you may have a slightly different look 
>> with System preferences.
>> 
>>> On Dec 8, 2022, at 15:36, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
>>> 
>>> may I ask how much this data connects with Catalina?
>>> Finding it personally frustrating,  and would welcome a solid outside of 
>>> the system itself resource.  Or better still  an in person teacher whom I 
>>> am happy to pay.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, 8 Dec 2022, Janet Ingber wrote:
>>> 
 Hi Devin,
 
 My book about the Mac is available on the National Braille Press website. 
 However, it is about the basics of using the Mac and information about the 
 Big Sur operating system. NBP does not update the book annually. Here’s 
 the link:
 https://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/MAC-BASICS-2021.html?from_search=1
 
 Hope this helps.
 Janet
 
> On Dec 8, 2022, at 9:21 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> For the person who mentioned that they have written books on MacOS and 
> VoiceOver, are those on National Braille Press, or somewhere else?
> 
> Devin Prater
> 
>> On Dec 6, 2022, at 6:17 PM, Marlene Kramer 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> thanks so very much to all who replied.
>> you’re supportive encouragements give me optimism! This is much better 
>> than the sense of dread I was developing.
>> you all have been most helpful.
>> I am sure I will have many questions to follow, but I will not be shy in 
>> posting them.
>> Best to all, Marlene.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 5, 2022, at 4:28 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Apple's online documentation is also useful. I would suggest this page 
>>> (summarizing Mac OS keyboard commands):
>>> https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT201236
>>> 
> On 6/12/22 06:52, bbsshawn via MacVisionaries wrote:
 Hi Marlene. Welcome to the group and welcome to the Mac. I've been a 
 Mac user for 12 years. When I got my first Mac which was a white 
 polycarbon plastic MacBook running Snow Leopard, I sold my Lenovo PC 
 the same day so I was forced to learn the Mac. It took me two weeks to 
 learn the OS and I've been loving the Mac ever since. Someone said on 
 this list a while ago that if you really want to learn how to use this 
 platform, you should forget everything you know about Windows and to 
 not use your PC as a crutch when you're frustrated with the Mac. They 
 were great words and I took them to heart. I think that's why I'm very 
 good at it. Also, along with this list, I have a Whatsapp group called 
 Mac Users and Newbies which is also a great group. If you'd like to be 
 added and if you're on a mobile phone such as iOS or Android, you can 
 send me your contact information and I'll put you in the group. Enjoy 
 the Mac.
 
 Shawn
 
>> On Dec 5, 2022, at 7:02 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
> 
> That’s probably true.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> 
>> On Dec 4, 2022, at 7:02 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 5, 2022, at 00:00, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I don’t know why either, but that was certainly the case for me.  I 
>>> think it’s because there are concepts in the Appleverse that aren’t 
>>> part of Windows, such as interacting, and quicknav.  Also, in my 
>>> case, I’d been a PC user for about twenty years.  So there were a 
>>> lot of things that were basically hard-wired, and I had to relearn 
>>> them.
>> For me, it started with Apple II in the 1980s, then MS-DOS in the 
>> early 90s, then UNIX in the 90s (a Sun clone), followed by Linux - 
>> both at the text console and later the graphical user interface as 
>> well. This was followed by Android, iOS, and then Mac OS. I didn’t 
>> have any trouble learning Mac 

Re: New to MacBook. Seeking advice on strategies for developing competence.

[Janet Ingber]

Hi Karen, 

If Herbie can give you materials that would be great. Big Sur is the operating 
system after Catalina. Here’s the AccessWorld article about it:
https://www.afb.org/aw/20/12/16850 

If you still want a teacher, email me off list.

HTH,
Janet


> On Dec 8, 2022, at 5:01 PM, Fazil M.  wrote:
> 
> MayI have that too, please?
> Thanks!
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
> Behalf Of Herbie Allen
> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2022 1:46 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: New to MacBook. Seeking advice on strategies for developing 
> competence.
> 
> I might be able to give you some old training material regarding Catalina, 
> but most things are the same. Messages and calendar are vastly different, and 
> mail has some minor changes and you may have a slightly different look with 
> System preferences. 
> 
>> On Dec 8, 2022, at 15:36, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
>> 
>> may I ask how much this data connects with Catalina?
>> Finding it personally frustrating,  and would welcome a solid outside of the 
>> system itself resource.  Or better still  an in person teacher whom I am 
>> happy to pay.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, 8 Dec 2022, Janet Ingber wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Devin,
>>> 
>>> My book about the Mac is available on the National Braille Press website. 
>>> However, it is about the basics of using the Mac and information about the 
>>> Big Sur operating system. NBP does not update the book annually. Here’s the 
>>> link:
>>> https://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/MAC-BASICS-2021.html?from_search=1
>>> 
>>> Hope this helps.
>>> Janet
>>> 
 On Dec 8, 2022, at 9:21 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
 
 For the person who mentioned that they have written books on MacOS and 
 VoiceOver, are those on National Braille Press, or somewhere else?
 
 Devin Prater
 
> On Dec 6, 2022, at 6:17 PM, Marlene Kramer  
> wrote:
> 
> thanks so very much to all who replied.
> you’re supportive encouragements give me optimism! This is much better 
> than the sense of dread I was developing.
> you all have been most helpful.
> I am sure I will have many questions to follow, but I will not be shy in 
> posting them.
> Best to all, Marlene.
> 
> 
>> On Dec 5, 2022, at 4:28 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Apple's online documentation is also useful. I would suggest this page 
>> (summarizing Mac OS keyboard commands):
>> https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT201236
>> 
 On 6/12/22 06:52, bbsshawn via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> Hi Marlene. Welcome to the group and welcome to the Mac. I've been a 
>>> Mac user for 12 years. When I got my first Mac which was a white 
>>> polycarbon plastic MacBook running Snow Leopard, I sold my Lenovo PC 
>>> the same day so I was forced to learn the Mac. It took me two weeks to 
>>> learn the OS and I've been loving the Mac ever since. Someone said on 
>>> this list a while ago that if you really want to learn how to use this 
>>> platform, you should forget everything you know about Windows and to 
>>> not use your PC as a crutch when you're frustrated with the Mac. They 
>>> were great words and I took them to heart. I think that's why I'm very 
>>> good at it. Also, along with this list, I have a Whatsapp group called 
>>> Mac Users and Newbies which is also a great group. If you'd like to be 
>>> added and if you're on a mobile phone such as iOS or Android, you can 
>>> send me your contact information and I'll put you in the group. Enjoy 
>>> the Mac.
>>> 
>>> Shawn
>>> 
> On Dec 5, 2022, at 7:02 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
 
 That’s probably true.
 Cheers,
 Donna
 
 
> On Dec 4, 2022, at 7:02 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 5, 2022, at 00:00, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I don’t know why either, but that was certainly the case for me.  I 
>> think it’s because there are concepts in the Appleverse that aren’t 
>> part of Windows, such as interacting, and quicknav.  Also, in my 
>> case, I’d been a PC user for about twenty years.  So there were a 
>> lot of things that were basically hard-wired, and I had to relearn 
>> them.
> For me, it started with Apple II in the 1980s, then MS-DOS in the 
> early 90s, then UNIX in the 90s (a Sun clone), followed by Linux - 
> both at the text console and later the graphical user interface as 
> well. This was followed by Android, iOS, and then Mac OS. I didn’t 
> have any trouble learning Mac OS, as I recall.
> After that came Windows, learned “mostly on the job” in a work 
> environment, and 

RE: New to MacBook. Seeking advice on strategies for developing competence.

[Fazil M.]

MayI have that too, please?
Thanks!

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Herbie Allen
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2022 1:46 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: New to MacBook. Seeking advice on strategies for developing 
competence.

I might be able to give you some old training material regarding Catalina, but 
most things are the same. Messages and calendar are vastly different, and mail 
has some minor changes and you may have a slightly different look with System 
preferences. 

> On Dec 8, 2022, at 15:36, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
> 
> may I ask how much this data connects with Catalina?
> Finding it personally frustrating,  and would welcome a solid outside of the 
> system itself resource.  Or better still  an in person teacher whom I am 
> happy to pay.
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, 8 Dec 2022, Janet Ingber wrote:
> 
>> Hi Devin,
>> 
>> My book about the Mac is available on the National Braille Press website. 
>> However, it is about the basics of using the Mac and information about the 
>> Big Sur operating system. NBP does not update the book annually. Here’s the 
>> link:
>> https://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/MAC-BASICS-2021.html?from_search=1
>> 
>> Hope this helps.
>> Janet
>> 
>>> On Dec 8, 2022, at 9:21 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> For the person who mentioned that they have written books on MacOS and 
>>> VoiceOver, are those on National Braille Press, or somewhere else?
>>> 
>>> Devin Prater
>>> 
 On Dec 6, 2022, at 6:17 PM, Marlene Kramer  
 wrote:
 
 thanks so very much to all who replied.
 you’re supportive encouragements give me optimism! This is much better 
 than the sense of dread I was developing.
 you all have been most helpful.
 I am sure I will have many questions to follow, but I will not be shy in 
 posting them.
 Best to all, Marlene.
 
 
> On Dec 5, 2022, at 4:28 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Apple's online documentation is also useful. I would suggest this page 
> (summarizing Mac OS keyboard commands):
> https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT201236
> 
>>> On 6/12/22 06:52, bbsshawn via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> Hi Marlene. Welcome to the group and welcome to the Mac. I've been a Mac 
>> user for 12 years. When I got my first Mac which was a white polycarbon 
>> plastic MacBook running Snow Leopard, I sold my Lenovo PC the same day 
>> so I was forced to learn the Mac. It took me two weeks to learn the OS 
>> and I've been loving the Mac ever since. Someone said on this list a 
>> while ago that if you really want to learn how to use this platform, you 
>> should forget everything you know about Windows and to not use your PC 
>> as a crutch when you're frustrated with the Mac. They were great words 
>> and I took them to heart. I think that's why I'm very good at it. Also, 
>> along with this list, I have a Whatsapp group called Mac Users and 
>> Newbies which is also a great group. If you'd like to be added and if 
>> you're on a mobile phone such as iOS or Android, you can send me your 
>> contact information and I'll put you in the group. Enjoy the Mac.
>> 
>> Shawn
>> 
 On Dec 5, 2022, at 7:02 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> That’s probably true.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>> 
 On Dec 4, 2022, at 7:02 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
 
 
 
> On Dec 5, 2022, at 00:00, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I don’t know why either, but that was certainly the case for me.  I 
> think it’s because there are concepts in the Appleverse that aren’t 
> part of Windows, such as interacting, and quicknav.  Also, in my 
> case, I’d been a PC user for about twenty years.  So there were a lot 
> of things that were basically hard-wired, and I had to relearn them.
 For me, it started with Apple II in the 1980s, then MS-DOS in the 
 early 90s, then UNIX in the 90s (a Sun clone), followed by Linux - 
 both at the text console and later the graphical user interface as 
 well. This was followed by Android, iOS, and then Mac OS. I didn’t 
 have any trouble learning Mac OS, as I recall.
 After that came Windows, learned “mostly on the job” in a work 
 environment, and some opportunities to experiment a little with Chrome 
 OS (but not to learn it properly).
 My only conclusion is that having learned to use several different 
 systems already makes the next one easier to learn.
 
 --
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 

Re: New to MacBook. Seeking advice on strategies for developing competence.

[Karen Lewellen]

That is fine, so Long as they are correct, and in a file form.
Its interesting, apple accessibility and I have enjoyed more than a few 
conversations about why they skipped the previously available 
documentation  in stand alone form for Catalina.

Karen



On Thu, 8 Dec 2022, Herbie Allen wrote:


I might be able to give you some old training material regarding Catalina, but 
most things are the same. Messages and calendar are vastly different, and mail 
has some minor changes and you may have a slightly different look with System 
preferences.


On Dec 8, 2022, at 15:36, Karen Lewellen  wrote:

may I ask how much this data connects with Catalina?
Finding it personally frustrating,  and would welcome a solid outside of the 
system itself resource.  Or better still  an in person teacher whom I am happy 
to pay.



On Thu, 8 Dec 2022, Janet Ingber wrote:


Hi Devin,

My book about the Mac is available on the National Braille Press website. 
However, it is about the basics of using the Mac and information about the Big 
Sur operating system. NBP does not update the book annually. Here’s the link:
https://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/MAC-BASICS-2021.html?from_search=1

Hope this helps.
Janet


On Dec 8, 2022, at 9:21 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

For the person who mentioned that they have written books on MacOS and 
VoiceOver, are those on National Braille Press, or somewhere else?

Devin Prater


On Dec 6, 2022, at 6:17 PM, Marlene Kramer  wrote:

thanks so very much to all who replied.
you’re supportive encouragements give me optimism! This is much better than the 
sense of dread I was developing.
you all have been most helpful.
I am sure I will have many questions to follow, but I will not be shy in 
posting them.
Best to all, Marlene.



On Dec 5, 2022, at 4:28 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Apple's online documentation is also useful. I would suggest this page 
(summarizing Mac OS keyboard commands):
https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT201236


On 6/12/22 06:52, bbsshawn via MacVisionaries wrote:

Hi Marlene. Welcome to the group and welcome to the Mac. I've been a Mac user 
for 12 years. When I got my first Mac which was a white polycarbon plastic 
MacBook running Snow Leopard, I sold my Lenovo PC the same day so I was forced 
to learn the Mac. It took me two weeks to learn the OS and I've been loving the 
Mac ever since. Someone said on this list a while ago that if you really want 
to learn how to use this platform, you should forget everything you know about 
Windows and to not use your PC as a crutch when you're frustrated with the Mac. 
They were great words and I took them to heart. I think that's why I'm very 
good at it. Also, along with this list, I have a Whatsapp group called Mac 
Users and Newbies which is also a great group. If you'd like to be added and if 
you're on a mobile phone such as iOS or Android, you can send me your contact 
information and I'll put you in the group. Enjoy the Mac.

Shawn


On Dec 5, 2022, at 7:02 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:


That’s probably true.
Cheers,
Donna



On Dec 4, 2022, at 7:02 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:




On Dec 5, 2022, at 00:00, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

I don’t know why either, but that was certainly the case for me.  I think it’s 
because there are concepts in the Appleverse that aren’t part of Windows, such 
as interacting, and quicknav.  Also, in my case, I’d been a PC user for about 
twenty years.  So there were a lot of things that were basically hard-wired, 
and I had to relearn them.

For me, it started with Apple II in the 1980s, then MS-DOS in the early 90s, 
then UNIX in the 90s (a Sun clone), followed by Linux - both at the text 
console and later the graphical user interface as well. This was followed by 
Android, iOS, and then Mac OS. I didn’t have any trouble learning Mac OS, as I 
recall.
After that came Windows, learned “mostly on the job” in a work environment, and 
some opportunities to experiment a little with Chrome OS (but not to learn it 
properly).
My only conclusion is that having learned to use several different systems 
already makes the next one easier to learn.

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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Re: New to MacBook. Seeking advice on strategies for developing competence.

[Herbie Allen]

I might be able to give you some old training material regarding Catalina, but 
most things are the same. Messages and calendar are vastly different, and mail 
has some minor changes and you may have a slightly different look with System 
preferences. 

> On Dec 8, 2022, at 15:36, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
> 
> may I ask how much this data connects with Catalina?
> Finding it personally frustrating,  and would welcome a solid outside of the 
> system itself resource.  Or better still  an in person teacher whom I am 
> happy to pay.
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, 8 Dec 2022, Janet Ingber wrote:
> 
>> Hi Devin,
>> 
>> My book about the Mac is available on the National Braille Press website. 
>> However, it is about the basics of using the Mac and information about the 
>> Big Sur operating system. NBP does not update the book annually. Here’s the 
>> link:
>> https://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/MAC-BASICS-2021.html?from_search=1
>> 
>> Hope this helps.
>> Janet
>> 
>>> On Dec 8, 2022, at 9:21 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> For the person who mentioned that they have written books on MacOS and 
>>> VoiceOver, are those on National Braille Press, or somewhere else?
>>> 
>>> Devin Prater
>>> 
 On Dec 6, 2022, at 6:17 PM, Marlene Kramer  
 wrote:
 
 thanks so very much to all who replied.
 you’re supportive encouragements give me optimism! This is much better 
 than the sense of dread I was developing.
 you all have been most helpful.
 I am sure I will have many questions to follow, but I will not be shy in 
 posting them.
 Best to all, Marlene.
 
 
> On Dec 5, 2022, at 4:28 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Apple's online documentation is also useful. I would suggest this page 
> (summarizing Mac OS keyboard commands):
> https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT201236
> 
>>> On 6/12/22 06:52, bbsshawn via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> Hi Marlene. Welcome to the group and welcome to the Mac. I've been a Mac 
>> user for 12 years. When I got my first Mac which was a white polycarbon 
>> plastic MacBook running Snow Leopard, I sold my Lenovo PC the same day 
>> so I was forced to learn the Mac. It took me two weeks to learn the OS 
>> and I've been loving the Mac ever since. Someone said on this list a 
>> while ago that if you really want to learn how to use this platform, you 
>> should forget everything you know about Windows and to not use your PC 
>> as a crutch when you're frustrated with the Mac. They were great words 
>> and I took them to heart. I think that's why I'm very good at it. Also, 
>> along with this list, I have a Whatsapp group called Mac Users and 
>> Newbies which is also a great group. If you'd like to be added and if 
>> you're on a mobile phone such as iOS or Android, you can send me your 
>> contact information and I'll put you in the group. Enjoy the Mac.
>> 
>> Shawn
>> 
 On Dec 5, 2022, at 7:02 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> That’s probably true.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>> 
 On Dec 4, 2022, at 7:02 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
 
 
 
> On Dec 5, 2022, at 00:00, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I don’t know why either, but that was certainly the case for me.  I 
> think it’s because there are concepts in the Appleverse that aren’t 
> part of Windows, such as interacting, and quicknav.  Also, in my 
> case, I’d been a PC user for about twenty years.  So there were a lot 
> of things that were basically hard-wired, and I had to relearn them.
 For me, it started with Apple II in the 1980s, then MS-DOS in the 
 early 90s, then UNIX in the 90s (a Sun clone), followed by Linux - 
 both at the text console and later the graphical user interface as 
 well. This was followed by Android, iOS, and then Mac OS. I didn’t 
 have any trouble learning Mac OS, as I recall.
 After that came Windows, learned “mostly on the job” in a work 
 environment, and some opportunities to experiment a little with Chrome 
 OS (but not to learn it properly).
 My only conclusion is that having learned to use several different 
 systems already makes the next one easier to learn.
 
 --
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
 or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
 the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list 
 itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
 mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu 

Re: New to MacBook. Seeking advice on strategies for developing competence.

[Karen Lewellen]

may I ask how much this data connects with Catalina?
Finding it personally frustrating,  and would welcome a solid outside of 
the system itself resource.  Or better still  an in person teacher whom I 
am happy to pay.




On Thu, 8 Dec 2022, Janet Ingber wrote:


Hi Devin,

My book about the Mac is available on the National Braille Press website. 
However, it is about the basics of using the Mac and information about the Big 
Sur operating system. NBP does not update the book annually. Here’s the link:
https://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/MAC-BASICS-2021.html?from_search=1

Hope this helps.
Janet


On Dec 8, 2022, at 9:21 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

For the person who mentioned that they have written books on MacOS and 
VoiceOver, are those on National Braille Press, or somewhere else?

Devin Prater


On Dec 6, 2022, at 6:17 PM, Marlene Kramer  wrote:

thanks so very much to all who replied.
you’re supportive encouragements give me optimism! This is much better than the 
sense of dread I was developing.
you all have been most helpful.
I am sure I will have many questions to follow, but I will not be shy in 
posting them.
Best to all, Marlene.



On Dec 5, 2022, at 4:28 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Apple's online documentation is also useful. I would suggest this page 
(summarizing Mac OS keyboard commands):
https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT201236


On 6/12/22 06:52, bbsshawn via MacVisionaries wrote:

Hi Marlene. Welcome to the group and welcome to the Mac. I've been a Mac user 
for 12 years. When I got my first Mac which was a white polycarbon plastic 
MacBook running Snow Leopard, I sold my Lenovo PC the same day so I was forced 
to learn the Mac. It took me two weeks to learn the OS and I've been loving the 
Mac ever since. Someone said on this list a while ago that if you really want 
to learn how to use this platform, you should forget everything you know about 
Windows and to not use your PC as a crutch when you're frustrated with the Mac. 
They were great words and I took them to heart. I think that's why I'm very 
good at it. Also, along with this list, I have a Whatsapp group called Mac 
Users and Newbies which is also a great group. If you'd like to be added and if 
you're on a mobile phone such as iOS or Android, you can send me your contact 
information and I'll put you in the group. Enjoy the Mac.

Shawn


On Dec 5, 2022, at 7:02 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:


That’s probably true.
Cheers,
Donna



On Dec 4, 2022, at 7:02 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:




On Dec 5, 2022, at 00:00, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

I don’t know why either, but that was certainly the case for me.  I think it’s 
because there are concepts in the Appleverse that aren’t part of Windows, such 
as interacting, and quicknav.  Also, in my case, I’d been a PC user for about 
twenty years.  So there were a lot of things that were basically hard-wired, 
and I had to relearn them.

For me, it started with Apple II in the 1980s, then MS-DOS in the early 90s, 
then UNIX in the 90s (a Sun clone), followed by Linux - both at the text 
console and later the graphical user interface as well. This was followed by 
Android, iOS, and then Mac OS. I didn’t have any trouble learning Mac OS, as I 
recall.
After that came Windows, learned “mostly on the job” in a work environment, and 
some opportunities to experiment a little with Chrome OS (but not to learn it 
properly).
My only conclusion is that having learned to use several different systems 
already makes the next one easier to learn.

--
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mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - 

Re: New to MacBook. Seeking advice on strategies for developing competence.

[Janet Ingber]

Hi Devin,

My book about the Mac is available on the National Braille Press website. 
However, it is about the basics of using the Mac and information about the Big 
Sur operating system. NBP does not update the book annually. Here’s the link:
https://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/MAC-BASICS-2021.html?from_search=1

Hope this helps.
Janet

> On Dec 8, 2022, at 9:21 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> For the person who mentioned that they have written books on MacOS and 
> VoiceOver, are those on National Braille Press, or somewhere else? 
> 
> Devin Prater
> 
>> On Dec 6, 2022, at 6:17 PM, Marlene Kramer  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> thanks so very much to all who replied.
>> you’re supportive encouragements give me optimism! This is much better than 
>> the sense of dread I was developing.
>> you all have been most helpful.
>> I am sure I will have many questions to follow, but I will not be shy in 
>> posting them.
>> Best to all, Marlene.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 5, 2022, at 4:28 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Apple's online documentation is also useful. I would suggest this page 
>>> (summarizing Mac OS keyboard commands):
>>> https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT201236
>>> 
> On 6/12/22 06:52, bbsshawn via MacVisionaries wrote:
 Hi Marlene. Welcome to the group and welcome to the Mac. I've been a Mac 
 user for 12 years. When I got my first Mac which was a white polycarbon 
 plastic MacBook running Snow Leopard, I sold my Lenovo PC the same day so 
 I was forced to learn the Mac. It took me two weeks to learn the OS and 
 I've been loving the Mac ever since. Someone said on this list a while ago 
 that if you really want to learn how to use this platform, you should 
 forget everything you know about Windows and to not use your PC as a 
 crutch when you're frustrated with the Mac. They were great words and I 
 took them to heart. I think that's why I'm very good at it. Also, along 
 with this list, I have a Whatsapp group called Mac Users and Newbies which 
 is also a great group. If you'd like to be added and if you're on a mobile 
 phone such as iOS or Android, you can send me your contact information and 
 I'll put you in the group. Enjoy the Mac.
 
 Shawn
 
>> On Dec 5, 2022, at 7:02 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
> 
> That’s probably true.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> 
>> On Dec 4, 2022, at 7:02 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 5, 2022, at 00:00, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I don’t know why either, but that was certainly the case for me.  I 
>>> think it’s because there are concepts in the Appleverse that aren’t 
>>> part of Windows, such as interacting, and quicknav.  Also, in my case, 
>>> I’d been a PC user for about twenty years.  So there were a lot of 
>>> things that were basically hard-wired, and I had to relearn them.
>> For me, it started with Apple II in the 1980s, then MS-DOS in the early 
>> 90s, then UNIX in the 90s (a Sun clone), followed by Linux - both at the 
>> text console and later the graphical user interface as well. This was 
>> followed by Android, iOS, and then Mac OS. I didn’t have any trouble 
>> learning Mac OS, as I recall.
>> After that came Windows, learned “mostly on the job” in a work 
>> environment, and some opportunities to experiment a little with Chrome 
>> OS (but not to learn it properly).
>> My only conclusion is that having learned to use several different 
>> systems already makes the next one easier to learn.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>> at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/DCF26946-B251-4534-8C64-4420ED90823C%40jasonjgw.net.
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about 

Re: New to MacBook. Seeking advice on strategies for developing competence.

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

For the person who mentioned that they have written books on MacOS and 
VoiceOver, are those on National Braille Press, or somewhere else? 

Devin Prater

> On Dec 6, 2022, at 6:17 PM, Marlene Kramer  
> wrote:
> 
> thanks so very much to all who replied.
> you’re supportive encouragements give me optimism! This is much better than 
> the sense of dread I was developing.
> you all have been most helpful.
> I am sure I will have many questions to follow, but I will not be shy in 
> posting them.
> Best to all, Marlene.
> 
> 
>> On Dec 5, 2022, at 4:28 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Apple's online documentation is also useful. I would suggest this page 
>> (summarizing Mac OS keyboard commands):
>> https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT201236
>> 
 On 6/12/22 06:52, bbsshawn via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> Hi Marlene. Welcome to the group and welcome to the Mac. I've been a Mac 
>>> user for 12 years. When I got my first Mac which was a white polycarbon 
>>> plastic MacBook running Snow Leopard, I sold my Lenovo PC the same day so I 
>>> was forced to learn the Mac. It took me two weeks to learn the OS and I've 
>>> been loving the Mac ever since. Someone said on this list a while ago that 
>>> if you really want to learn how to use this platform, you should forget 
>>> everything you know about Windows and to not use your PC as a crutch when 
>>> you're frustrated with the Mac. They were great words and I took them to 
>>> heart. I think that's why I'm very good at it. Also, along with this list, 
>>> I have a Whatsapp group called Mac Users and Newbies which is also a great 
>>> group. If you'd like to be added and if you're on a mobile phone such as 
>>> iOS or Android, you can send me your contact information and I'll put you 
>>> in the group. Enjoy the Mac.
>>> 
>>> Shawn
>>> 
> On Dec 5, 2022, at 7:02 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
 
 That’s probably true.
 Cheers,
 Donna
 
 
> On Dec 4, 2022, at 7:02 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 5, 2022, at 00:00, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I don’t know why either, but that was certainly the case for me.  I 
>> think it’s because there are concepts in the Appleverse that aren’t part 
>> of Windows, such as interacting, and quicknav.  Also, in my case, I’d 
>> been a PC user for about twenty years.  So there were a lot of things 
>> that were basically hard-wired, and I had to relearn them.
> For me, it started with Apple II in the 1980s, then MS-DOS in the early 
> 90s, then UNIX in the 90s (a Sun clone), followed by Linux - both at the 
> text console and later the graphical user interface as well. This was 
> followed by Android, iOS, and then Mac OS. I didn’t have any trouble 
> learning Mac OS, as I recall.
> After that came Windows, learned “mostly on the job” in a work 
> environment, and some opportunities to experiment a little with Chrome OS 
> (but not to learn it properly).
> My only conclusion is that having learned to use several different 
> systems already makes the next one easier to learn.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
> at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/DCF26946-B251-4534-8C64-4420ED90823C%40jasonjgw.net.
 -- 
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
 at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
 caraqu...@caraquinn.com
 
 The archives for this list can be searched at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
 ---
 You 

Re: New to MacBook. Seeking advice on strategies for developing competence.

[Marlene Kramer]

thanks so very much to all who replied.
you’re supportive encouragements give me optimism! This is much better than the 
sense of dread I was developing.
you all have been most helpful.
I am sure I will have many questions to follow, but I will not be shy in 
posting them.
Best to all, Marlene.


> On Dec 5, 2022, at 4:28 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Apple's online documentation is also useful. I would suggest this page 
> (summarizing Mac OS keyboard commands):
> https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT201236
> 
>> On 6/12/22 06:52, bbsshawn via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> Hi Marlene. Welcome to the group and welcome to the Mac. I've been a Mac 
>> user for 12 years. When I got my first Mac which was a white polycarbon 
>> plastic MacBook running Snow Leopard, I sold my Lenovo PC the same day so I 
>> was forced to learn the Mac. It took me two weeks to learn the OS and I've 
>> been loving the Mac ever since. Someone said on this list a while ago that 
>> if you really want to learn how to use this platform, you should forget 
>> everything you know about Windows and to not use your PC as a crutch when 
>> you're frustrated with the Mac. They were great words and I took them to 
>> heart. I think that's why I'm very good at it. Also, along with this list, I 
>> have a Whatsapp group called Mac Users and Newbies which is also a great 
>> group. If you'd like to be added and if you're on a mobile phone such as iOS 
>> or Android, you can send me your contact information and I'll put you in the 
>> group. Enjoy the Mac.
>> 
>> Shawn
>> 
 On Dec 5, 2022, at 7:02 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> That’s probably true.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>> 
 On Dec 4, 2022, at 7:02 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
 
 
 
> On Dec 5, 2022, at 00:00, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I don’t know why either, but that was certainly the case for me.  I think 
> it’s because there are concepts in the Appleverse that aren’t part of 
> Windows, such as interacting, and quicknav.  Also, in my case, I’d been a 
> PC user for about twenty years.  So there were a lot of things that were 
> basically hard-wired, and I had to relearn them.
 For me, it started with Apple II in the 1980s, then MS-DOS in the early 
 90s, then UNIX in the 90s (a Sun clone), followed by Linux - both at the 
 text console and later the graphical user interface as well. This was 
 followed by Android, iOS, and then Mac OS. I didn’t have any trouble 
 learning Mac OS, as I recall.
 After that came Windows, learned “mostly on the job” in a work 
 environment, and some opportunities to experiment a little with Chrome OS 
 (but not to learn it properly).
 My only conclusion is that having learned to use several different systems 
 already makes the next one easier to learn.
 
 -- 
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
 at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
 caraqu...@caraquinn.com
 
 The archives for this list can be searched at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
 ---
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 "MacVisionaries" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
 email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To view this discussion on the web visit 
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>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> 

Re: New to MacBook. Seeking advice on strategies for developing competence.

['Jason White' via MacVisionaries]

Apple's online documentation is also useful. I would suggest this page 
(summarizing Mac OS keyboard commands):

https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT201236

On 6/12/22 06:52, bbsshawn via MacVisionaries wrote:

Hi Marlene. Welcome to the group and welcome to the Mac. I've been a Mac user 
for 12 years. When I got my first Mac which was a white polycarbon plastic 
MacBook running Snow Leopard, I sold my Lenovo PC the same day so I was forced 
to learn the Mac. It took me two weeks to learn the OS and I've been loving the 
Mac ever since. Someone said on this list a while ago that if you really want 
to learn how to use this platform, you should forget everything you know about 
Windows and to not use your PC as a crutch when you're frustrated with the Mac. 
They were great words and I took them to heart. I think that's why I'm very 
good at it. Also, along with this list, I have a Whatsapp group called Mac 
Users and Newbies which is also a great group. If you'd like to be added and if 
you're on a mobile phone such as iOS or Android, you can send me your contact 
information and I'll put you in the group. Enjoy the Mac.

Shawn


On Dec 5, 2022, at 7:02 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

That’s probably true.
Cheers,
Donna



On Dec 4, 2022, at 7:02 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:




On Dec 5, 2022, at 00:00, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

I don’t know why either, but that was certainly the case for me.  I think it’s 
because there are concepts in the Appleverse that aren’t part of Windows, such 
as interacting, and quicknav.  Also, in my case, I’d been a PC user for about 
twenty years.  So there were a lot of things that were basically hard-wired, 
and I had to relearn them.

For me, it started with Apple II in the 1980s, then MS-DOS in the early 90s, 
then UNIX in the 90s (a Sun clone), followed by Linux - both at the text 
console and later the graphical user interface as well. This was followed by 
Android, iOS, and then Mac OS. I didn’t have any trouble learning Mac OS, as I 
recall.
After that came Windows, learned “mostly on the job” in a work environment, and 
some opportunities to experiment a little with Chrome OS (but not to learn it 
properly).
My only conclusion is that having learned to use several different systems 
already makes the next one easier to learn.

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

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mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
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RE: New to MacBook. Seeking advice on strategies for developing competence.

[Fazil M.]

Could you, please get me added to that WhatsApp Group.
I can not find your email here but if you reply this message to:
mfa...@outlook.com
I would send you my mobile number.
Thanks!

-Original Message-
From: bbsshawn via MacVisionaries  
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2022 11:52 AM
To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: New to MacBook. Seeking advice on strategies for developing 
competence.

Hi Marlene. Welcome to the group and welcome to the Mac. I've been a Mac user 
for 12 years. When I got my first Mac which was a white polycarbon plastic 
MacBook running Snow Leopard, I sold my Lenovo PC the same day so I was forced 
to learn the Mac. It took me two weeks to learn the OS and I've been loving the 
Mac ever since. Someone said on this list a while ago that if you really want 
to learn how to use this platform, you should forget everything you know about 
Windows and to not use your PC as a crutch when you're frustrated with the Mac. 
They were great words and I took them to heart. I think that's why I'm very 
good at it. Also, along with this list, I have a Whatsapp group called Mac 
Users and Newbies which is also a great group. If you'd like to be added and if 
you're on a mobile phone such as iOS or Android, you can send me your contact 
information and I'll put you in the group. Enjoy the Mac.

Shawn

> On Dec 5, 2022, at 7:02 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> That’s probably true.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> 
>> On Dec 4, 2022, at 7:02 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 5, 2022, at 00:00, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I don’t know why either, but that was certainly the case for me.  I think 
>>> it’s because there are concepts in the Appleverse that aren’t part of 
>>> Windows, such as interacting, and quicknav.  Also, in my case, I’d been a 
>>> PC user for about twenty years.  So there were a lot of things that were 
>>> basically hard-wired, and I had to relearn them.
>> For me, it started with Apple II in the 1980s, then MS-DOS in the early 90s, 
>> then UNIX in the 90s (a Sun clone), followed by Linux - both at the text 
>> console and later the graphical user interface as well. This was followed by 
>> Android, iOS, and then Mac OS. I didn’t have any trouble learning Mac OS, as 
>> I recall.
>> After that came Windows, learned “mostly on the job” in a work environment, 
>> and some opportunities to experiment a little with Chrome OS (but not to 
>> learn it properly).
>> My only conclusion is that having learned to use several different systems 
>> already makes the next one easier to learn.
>> 
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Re: New to MacBook. Seeking advice on strategies for developing competence.

[bbsshawn via MacVisionaries]

Hi Marlene. Welcome to the group and welcome to the Mac. I've been a Mac user 
for 12 years. When I got my first Mac which was a white polycarbon plastic 
MacBook running Snow Leopard, I sold my Lenovo PC the same day so I was forced 
to learn the Mac. It took me two weeks to learn the OS and I've been loving the 
Mac ever since. Someone said on this list a while ago that if you really want 
to learn how to use this platform, you should forget everything you know about 
Windows and to not use your PC as a crutch when you're frustrated with the Mac. 
They were great words and I took them to heart. I think that's why I'm very 
good at it. Also, along with this list, I have a Whatsapp group called Mac 
Users and Newbies which is also a great group. If you'd like to be added and if 
you're on a mobile phone such as iOS or Android, you can send me your contact 
information and I'll put you in the group. Enjoy the Mac.

Shawn

> On Dec 5, 2022, at 7:02 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> That’s probably true.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> 
>> On Dec 4, 2022, at 7:02 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 5, 2022, at 00:00, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I don’t know why either, but that was certainly the case for me.  I think 
>>> it’s because there are concepts in the Appleverse that aren’t part of 
>>> Windows, such as interacting, and quicknav.  Also, in my case, I’d been a 
>>> PC user for about twenty years.  So there were a lot of things that were 
>>> basically hard-wired, and I had to relearn them.
>> For me, it started with Apple II in the 1980s, then MS-DOS in the early 90s, 
>> then UNIX in the 90s (a Sun clone), followed by Linux - both at the text 
>> console and later the graphical user interface as well. This was followed by 
>> Android, iOS, and then Mac OS. I didn’t have any trouble learning Mac OS, as 
>> I recall.
>> After that came Windows, learned “mostly on the job” in a work environment, 
>> and some opportunities to experiment a little with Chrome OS (but not to 
>> learn it properly).
>> My only conclusion is that having learned to use several different systems 
>> already makes the next one easier to learn.
>> 
>> -- 
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>> Visionaries list.
>> 
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Re: New to MacBook. Seeking advice on strategies for developing competence.

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

That’s probably true.
Cheers,
Donna


> On Dec 4, 2022, at 7:02 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 5, 2022, at 00:00, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I don’t know why either, but that was certainly the case for me.  I think 
>> it’s because there are concepts in the Appleverse that aren’t part of 
>> Windows, such as interacting, and quicknav.  Also, in my case, I’d been a PC 
>> user for about twenty years.  So there were a lot of things that were 
>> basically hard-wired, and I had to relearn them.
> For me, it started with Apple II in the 1980s, then MS-DOS in the early 90s, 
> then UNIX in the 90s (a Sun clone), followed by Linux - both at the text 
> console and later the graphical user interface as well. This was followed by 
> Android, iOS, and then Mac OS. I didn’t have any trouble learning Mac OS, as 
> I recall.
> After that came Windows, learned “mostly on the job” in a work environment, 
> and some opportunities to experiment a little with Chrome OS (but not to 
> learn it properly).
> My only conclusion is that having learned to use several different systems 
> already makes the next one easier to learn.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
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> 
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Re: New to MacBook. Seeking advice on strategies for developing competence.

['Jason White' via MacVisionaries]

> On Dec 5, 2022, at 00:00, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I don’t know why either, but that was certainly the case for me.  I think 
> it’s because there are concepts in the Appleverse that aren’t part of 
> Windows, such as interacting, and quicknav.  Also, in my case, I’d been a PC 
> user for about twenty years.  So there were a lot of things that were 
> basically hard-wired, and I had to relearn them.
For me, it started with Apple II in the 1980s, then MS-DOS in the early 90s, 
then UNIX in the 90s (a Sun clone), followed by Linux - both at the text 
console and later the graphical user interface as well. This was followed by 
Android, iOS, and then Mac OS. I didn’t have any trouble learning Mac OS, as I 
recall.
After that came Windows, learned “mostly on the job” in a work environment, and 
some opportunities to experiment a little with Chrome OS (but not to learn it 
properly).
My only conclusion is that having learned to use several different systems 
already makes the next one easier to learn.

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Re: New to MacBook. Seeking advice on strategies for developing competence.

[Herbie Allen]

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfB9nnQHxOOMVcyCtInVNjIYXqann5Jf-
 It is a playlist and the classes are organized by topic.

> On Dec 4, 2022, at 00:08, Fazil M.  wrote:
> 
> May I have the Youtube link to the previous classes, please?
> Thanks!
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
> Behalf Of Herbie Allen
> Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2022 4:56 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: New to MacBook. Seeking advice on strategies for developing 
> competence.
> 
> You will find a lot of similarities to Windows and iOS depending on what you 
> are doing. For example, the System Settings is similar to iOS while you have 
> mail commands like Command R for reply similar to Windows. Are you interested 
> in training materials? I can also recommend a training course but there is a 
> waiting list. Previous classes are on Youtube though.
> 
>> On Dec 3, 2022, at 17:38, Marlene Kramer  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> hi listers, I am new to this list, and new to MacBook. I have transition 
>> from the PC/jaws approach.
>> I have a MacBook, running Ventura.
>> I have eight years of experience with the iOS version of voiceover, but I’m 
>> finding the MacBook version of voice over a little more challenging. I have 
>> made some good initial progress, but realize I have a steep learning curve 
>> ahead of me.
>> I would very much appreciate learning from those of you with experience on 
>> the MacBook, your recommended strategies for approaching this learning 
>> process. No advice is too simple.
>> Thanks in advance. Marlene.
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
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>> Visionaries list.
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>> 
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Re: New to MacBook. Seeking advice on strategies for developing competence.

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Hi Jason,

I don’t know why either, but that was certainly the case for me.  I think it’s 
because there are concepts in the Appleverse that aren’t part of Windows, such 
as interacting, and quicknav.  Also, in my case, I’d been a PC user for about 
twenty years.  So there were a lot of things that were basically hard-wired, 
and I had to relearn them.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Dec 4, 2022, at 12:04 AM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> In addition to what others have suggested, there’s documentation available 
> with Ctrl-Option-Question mark (i.e., the VoiceOver modifier key with 
> question mark).
> I don’t know why this is so, but discussions on this list and elsewhere give 
> me the impression that Windows users have a more difficult time learning 
> VoiceOver for Mac than do people coming from other backgrounds.
> 
>> On Dec 4, 2022, at 10:38, Marlene Kramer  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> hi listers, I am new to this list, and new to MacBook. I have transition 
>> from the PC/jaws approach.
>> I have a MacBook, running Ventura.
>> I have eight years of experience with the iOS version of voiceover, but I’m 
>> finding the MacBook version of voice over a little more challenging. I have 
>> made some good initial progress, but realize I have a steep learning curve 
>> ahead of me.
>> I would very much appreciate learning from those of you with experience on 
>> the MacBook, your recommended strategies for approaching this learning 
>> process. No advice is too simple.
>> Thanks in advance. Marlene.
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
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>> 
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>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
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Re: New to MacBook. Seeking advice on strategies for developing competence.

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Hi Marlene,

I just want to second Janet’s advice.  I got my first Mac in 2009 about a month 
after getting the iPhone 3GS.  There were a couple of months that I mostly just 
wanted to throw my Mac off the roof of a tall building and watch it shatter.  
Now, I love it.  It just takes time, a lot of patience, and support, which you 
will have on this list..

Janet’s suggestions for resources are excellent.  In addition, 
Macfortheblind.com  is an excellent resource, and I 
think the owner of that site is til on this list.  Also, remember that the menu 
system is your friend.  Of course keyboard shortcuts are faster, but until you 
learn them, bringing up the menu with VO-M will give you access to most 
commands.  You can also bring up a context menu by pressing VO-M twice.  When I 
say VO, I’m referring to what are called the VO keys, which are option-Control. 
You can also bring up keyboard help if you need it by pressing VO-K.  You can 
then close keyboard help by pressing Escape.

I hope this helps.  This is a very helpful list, so don’t be afraid to post any 
questions here.
Cheers,
Donna


> On Dec 3, 2022, at 7:08 PM, Janet Ingber  wrote:
> 
> Hi Marlene,
> Just take it slow. Do you still have your PC hooked up? I’ve written several 
> books  on the Mac operating systems. There’s also a tremendous amount of 
> information on www.applevis.com.
> AppleVis is a great web site and Mac Visionaries  is a great email list.
> 
> No question is stupid. We’ve all been there.
> 
> Best.
> Janet
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 3, 2022, at 6:38 PM, Marlene Kramer  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> hi listers, I am new to this list, and new to MacBook. I have transition 
>> from the PC/jaws approach.
>> I have a MacBook, running Ventura.
>> I have eight years of experience with the iOS version of voiceover, but I’m 
>> finding the MacBook version of voice over a little more challenging. I have 
>> made some good initial progress, but realize I have a steep learning curve 
>> ahead of me.
>> I would very much appreciate learning from those of you with experience on 
>> the MacBook, your recommended strategies for approaching this learning 
>> process. No advice is too simple.
>> Thanks in advance. Marlene.
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
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>> Visionaries list.
>> 
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>> 
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>> 
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RE: New to MacBook. Seeking advice on strategies for developing competence.

[Fazil M.]

May I have the Youtube link to the previous classes, please?
Thanks!

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Herbie Allen
Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2022 4:56 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: New to MacBook. Seeking advice on strategies for developing 
competence.

You will find a lot of similarities to Windows and iOS depending on what you 
are doing. For example, the System Settings is similar to iOS while you have 
mail commands like Command R for reply similar to Windows. Are you interested 
in training materials? I can also recommend a training course but there is a 
waiting list. Previous classes are on Youtube though.

> On Dec 3, 2022, at 17:38, Marlene Kramer  wrote:
> 
> hi listers, I am new to this list, and new to MacBook. I have transition from 
> the PC/jaws approach.
> I have a MacBook, running Ventura.
> I have eight years of experience with the iOS version of voiceover, but I’m 
> finding the MacBook version of voice over a little more challenging. I have 
> made some good initial progress, but realize I have a steep learning curve 
> ahead of me.
> I would very much appreciate learning from those of you with experience on 
> the MacBook, your recommended strategies for approaching this learning 
> process. No advice is too simple.
> Thanks in advance. Marlene.
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
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> 
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Re: New to MacBook. Seeking advice on strategies for developing competence.

['Jason White' via MacVisionaries]

In addition to what others have suggested, there’s documentation available with 
Ctrl-Option-Question mark (i.e., the VoiceOver modifier key with question mark).
I don’t know why this is so, but discussions on this list and elsewhere give me 
the impression that Windows users have a more difficult time learning VoiceOver 
for Mac than do people coming from other backgrounds.

> On Dec 4, 2022, at 10:38, Marlene Kramer  wrote:
> 
> hi listers, I am new to this list, and new to MacBook. I have transition from 
> the PC/jaws approach.
> I have a MacBook, running Ventura.
> I have eight years of experience with the iOS version of voiceover, but I’m 
> finding the MacBook version of voice over a little more challenging. I have 
> made some good initial progress, but realize I have a steep learning curve 
> ahead of me.
> I would very much appreciate learning from those of you with experience on 
> the MacBook, your recommended strategies for approaching this learning 
> process. No advice is too simple.
> Thanks in advance. Marlene.
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: New to MacBook. Seeking advice on strategies for developing competence.

[Rollin Hippler]

If you have access to an


 "Apple Magic Keyboard with Numeric Keypad" I've found that enabling
 the keypad commander provides an experience somewhat similar to JAWS.


I've found the VoiceOver help function to be very helpful when learning 
the various VoiceOver key commands and key combinations.



One other thing I found to be helpful is to change the VoiceOver 
modifier key to be the caps lock key.  This frees up the option/command 
keys for other frequently purposes.  That is done in the VoiceOver 
options utility (VO + F8).



Hope this helps.


Rollin

On 12/3/2022 6:38 PM, Marlene Kramer wrote:

hi listers, I am new to this list, and new to MacBook. I have transition from 
the PC/jaws approach.
I have a MacBook, running Ventura.
I have eight years of experience with the iOS version of voiceover, but I’m 
finding the MacBook version of voice over a little more challenging. I have 
made some good initial progress, but realize I have a steep learning curve 
ahead of me.
I would very much appreciate learning from those of you with experience on the 
MacBook, your recommended strategies for approaching this learning process. No 
advice is too simple.
Thanks in advance. Marlene.




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caraqu...@caraquinn.com

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Re: New to MacBook. Seeking advice on strategies for developing competence.

[Herbie Allen]

You will find a lot of similarities to Windows and iOS depending on what you 
are doing. For example, the System Settings is similar to iOS while you have 
mail commands like Command R for reply similar to Windows. Are you interested 
in training materials? I can also recommend a training course but there is a 
waiting list. Previous classes are on Youtube though.

> On Dec 3, 2022, at 17:38, Marlene Kramer  wrote:
> 
> hi listers, I am new to this list, and new to MacBook. I have transition from 
> the PC/jaws approach.
> I have a MacBook, running Ventura.
> I have eight years of experience with the iOS version of voiceover, but I’m 
> finding the MacBook version of voice over a little more challenging. I have 
> made some good initial progress, but realize I have a steep learning curve 
> ahead of me.
> I would very much appreciate learning from those of you with experience on 
> the MacBook, your recommended strategies for approaching this learning 
> process. No advice is too simple.
> Thanks in advance. Marlene.
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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Re: New to MacBook. Seeking advice on strategies for developing competence.

[Janet Ingber]

Hi Marlene,
Just take it slow. Do you still have your PC hooked up? I’ve written several 
books  on the Mac operating systems. There’s also a tremendous amount of 
information on www.applevis.com.
AppleVis is a great web site and Mac Visionaries  is a great email list.

No question is stupid. We’ve all been there.

Best.
Janet




> On Dec 3, 2022, at 6:38 PM, Marlene Kramer  
> wrote:
> 
> hi listers, I am new to this list, and new to MacBook. I have transition from 
> the PC/jaws approach.
> I have a MacBook, running Ventura.
> I have eight years of experience with the iOS version of voiceover, but I’m 
> finding the MacBook version of voice over a little more challenging. I have 
> made some good initial progress, but realize I have a steep learning curve 
> ahead of me.
> I would very much appreciate learning from those of you with experience on 
> the MacBook, your recommended strategies for approaching this learning 
> process. No advice is too simple.
> Thanks in advance. Marlene.
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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