Re: Screen reader demographics - Was Re: helping a blind friend get technology
That sounds like the broader trend of companies allowing people to self-select their devices rather than mandate hardware. There are some who suspect that a lot of people already use their person iPhones for work, leaving the corporate provided blackberry in a drawer. CB On 12/3/12 1:14 PM, Eugenia Firth wrote: Hi there. A lot of blind people are stuck with whatever their employer wnts to do. However, it's going to be real interesting to see how things go. Both my brother's company and my sister's hospital bought their employees iPads. My sister is a nurse practitioner who does work full time these days on the iPad. If this starts happening from time to time, then our fight will be to make the company apps accessible. On Dec 3, 2012, at 9:41 AM, Chris Blouch wrote: For those interested, the WebAIM folks every so often do some survey research on screen readers. IN amongst the piles of stats is the Primary Screen Reader breakdown: http://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey4/#primary Unsurprisingly, for desktops, Jaws is the leader with 49% but NVDA is #2 with nearly 14%. Voiceover is #5 with 9%. Of course some of this is the nature of the marketplace where Windows is the dominant platform so Windows screen readers make up the lion's share of the users. Wikimedia stats have OSX as 8.5% of the market: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems In the analysis section of WebAIM's report they note that Jaws has been sinking from 66% in 2009 and 59% in 2010 but it would seem that many of those jumped to NVDA as it has risen from just 2.9% in 2009. Of course there's lots of other interesting data in there but for mobile screen readers Voicover is way ahead in the #1 spot with 49% followed by Nuance Talks with 18% http://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey4/#mobilescreenreaders CB On 12/2/12 11:15 PM, Alex Hall wrote: Yes, the mini starts at $600 I believe, but you then need the monitor and possibly an adapter or cable, depending on the monitor you choose. You also need a keyboard and, if she wants one, some kind of trackpad for gestures. So, assume the standard apple keyboard at $40 (for the wired one), a cheap monitor for $100, and the $60 trackpad and we've just gone up to $800. Especially if she will be getting training, you may want to stick with a mobile computer so she can take it around to different places. An iPad works, but it's hard to say that she will be happy with it once she starts to see what it can't do, such as play CDs or offer different voices. I love iPads and other iOS devices, I've just not heard good things about using them as computer replacements. The screen reader is NVDA (nvda-project.org), and it is free and open-source. You're right, there is no support for it since it is, well free, but I'm sure you can find people who can teach it. It is becoming more popular, so access tech specialists should know it. The speech is hard to get used to, but you will eventually. Still, it's no Alex or Serena but again the money problem. I'd like to stress once more that I would personally pick a mac every time, and I only bring up windows to point out that the cost difference may outweigh the benefits of the mac in this one case. If you can get around money, then the mac is the better choice. On Dec 2, 2012, at 10:40 PM, Eugenia Firth wrote: Hi there I'm not familiar with the screen reader you're talking about, which brings up the question. Who's going to help her learn a Windows screen reader that most blind people don't have? I mean quick, if she doesn't know someone who has this screen reader, I think she stuck. The other question I have is, is not a Mac mini cheaper than $1000? I haven't talk to her much about this yet, but for what she wants, there is a good chance that she could use the iPad And a keyboard. I have another blind friend who decided to continue with a Windows computer. She had learned Johnice and windows at work, and when she retired she didn't want to change it. However, even though she had used the computer at work, she is pretty shaky when it comes to problems with her computer. This means that her computer guru brother has had to help her almost immediately with this computer, And they live in different states. I mention this because I see some blind people needing a great deal of support in order to maintain their computers, and not all of them have that support. This lady that when you're talking about, as far as I know, is on her own. I live in one city, she lives in another. This means I can't volunteer to help her. Since I used Windows for a number of years before getting him back, I could do it if we lived near each other. I think a lot of us are forgetting here that what some of us on this list could do quite fine, others who don't have our experience would find very frustrating and not workable. This lady needs the keep it simple system. She's very smart, but I don't
Re: helping a blind friend get technology
Ok, what about you guys that have Mac Book Airs? I'blind have to find out if she wants to use BARD. I suspect she would want to do that, but I haven't asked her. On Dec 3, 2012, at 8:39 AM, Alex Hall wrote: > I don't have a idfferent mac (yet) so can't say for sure. What I can say is > that 2gb is not enough; if you do get the mini, which allows the user to > upgrade the ram, I'd go for the cheapest option and then pick up 8gb of ram, > which can be had for around $40, and pop it in in place of the default ram. I > don't know if that would solve my problems, but I do know that switching to > applications I haven't used in a while takes a long time as they load into > ram from the hard drive, and that big apps like xCode or Garageband take > forever to load. An ssd (solid-state drive) would definitely help too, but > ram is the far cheaper upgrade option at this point. > On Dec 3, 2012, at 9:26 AM, Eugenia Firth wrote: > >> Ok Alex. Are you saying that because the Mac Mini has less memory that more >> strange things happen using VoiceOver than having a different Mac? >> >> On Dec 3, 2012, at 7:47 AM, Alex Hall wrote: >> >>> First, I use standard view, and second, I have a grand total of 2gb of ram >>> to work with. I know I need more, but I'm saving up for a macbook >>> so I don't want to sink any money into this mini if I don't have to. My >>> point with that example, though, was that you have to know how the mac >>> works and know all the tricks to be sure you know what to do when something >>> strange happens. >>> On Dec 3, 2012, at 7:06 AM, Shawn Krasniuk >>> wrote: >>> Hi Alex. If you don't like Safari's approach to browsing the internet, perhaps you should try Chrome. Chromevox has been updated significantly so you can use up and down arrow keys like in Windows. In regards to your comment about replying to an email in Mail and getting the "busy" message, I am not reproducing this. I use mail in it's classic view that it had in Snow Leopard with headers turned off with no problems at all. Shawn Sent from my white Mac Book -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >>> >>> >>> Have a great day, >>> Alex (msg sent from Mac Mini) >>> mehg...@gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > > > > Have a great day, > Alex (msg sent from Mac Mini) > mehg...@gmail.com > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Screen reader demographics - Was Re: helping a blind friend get technology
Hi there. A lot of blind people are stuck with whatever their employer wnts to do. However, it's going to be real interesting to see how things go. Both my brother's company and my sister's hospital bought their employees iPads. My sister is a nurse practitioner who does work full time these days on the iPad. If this starts happening from time to time, then our fight will be to make the company apps accessible. On Dec 3, 2012, at 9:41 AM, Chris Blouch wrote: > For those interested, the WebAIM folks every so often do some survey research > on screen readers. IN amongst the piles of stats is the Primary Screen Reader > breakdown: > > http://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey4/#primary > > Unsurprisingly, for desktops, Jaws is the leader with 49% but NVDA is #2 with > nearly 14%. Voiceover is #5 with 9%. Of course some of this is the nature of > the marketplace where Windows is the dominant platform so Windows screen > readers make up the lion's share of the users. Wikimedia stats have OSX as > 8.5% of the market: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems > > In the analysis section of WebAIM's report they note that Jaws has been > sinking from 66% in 2009 and 59% in 2010 but it would seem that many of those > jumped to NVDA as it has risen from just 2.9% in 2009. Of course there's lots > of other interesting data in there but for mobile screen readers Voicover is > way ahead in the #1 spot with 49% followed by Nuance Talks with 18% > > http://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey4/#mobilescreenreaders > > CB > > On 12/2/12 11:15 PM, Alex Hall wrote: >> Yes, the mini starts at $600 I believe, but you then need the monitor and >> possibly an adapter or cable, depending on the monitor you choose. You also >> need a keyboard and, if she wants one, some kind of trackpad for gestures. >> So, assume the standard apple keyboard at $40 (for the wired one), a cheap >> monitor for $100, and the $60 trackpad and we've just gone up to $800. >> Especially if she will be getting training, you may want to stick with a >> mobile computer so she can take it around to different places. An iPad >> works, but it's hard to say that she will be happy with it once she starts >> to see what it can't do, such as play CDs or offer different voices. I love >> iPads and other iOS devices, I've just not heard good things about using >> them as computer replacements. >> >> The screen reader is NVDA (nvda-project.org), and it is free and >> open-source. You're right, there is no support for it since it is, well >> free, but I'm sure you can find people who can teach it. It is becoming more >> popular, so access tech specialists should know it. The speech is hard to >> get used to, but you will eventually. Still, it's no Alex or Serena but >> again the money problem. I'd like to stress once more that I would >> personally pick a mac every time, and I only bring up windows to point out >> that the cost difference may outweigh the benefits of the mac in this one >> case. If you can get around money, then the mac is the better choice. >> On Dec 2, 2012, at 10:40 PM, Eugenia Firth wrote: >> >>> Hi there >>> I'm not familiar with the screen reader you're talking about, which brings >>> up the question. Who's going to help her learn a Windows screen reader that >>> most blind people don't have? I mean quick, if she doesn't know someone who >>> has this screen reader, I think she stuck. The other question I have is, is >>> not a Mac mini cheaper than $1000? I haven't talk to her much about this >>> yet, but for what she wants, there is a good chance that she could use the >>> iPad And a keyboard. >>> I have another blind friend who decided to continue with a Windows >>> computer. She had learned Johnice and windows at work, and when she retired >>> she didn't want to change it. However, even though she had used the >>> computer at work, she is pretty shaky when it comes to problems with her >>> computer. This means that her computer guru brother has had to help her >>> almost immediately with this computer, And they live in different states. I >>> mention this because I see some blind people needing a great deal of >>> support in order to maintain their computers, and not all of them have that >>> support. >>> This lady that when you're talking about, as far as I know, is on her own. >>> I live in one city, she lives in another. This means I can't volunteer to >>> help her. Since I used Windows for a number of years before getting him >>> back, I could do it if we lived near each other. >>> I think a lot of us are forgetting here that what some of us on this list >>> could do quite fine, others who don't have our experience would find very >>> frustrating and not workable. This lady needs the keep it simple system. >>> She's very smart, but I don't think she would be motivated to learn >>> anything that took extreme amounts of time And effort. I
Re: helping a blind friend get technology
My two cents, I would get a iPod touch and an Apple keyboard. It would be much easier to learn and much less expensive. She could Always upgrade to a computer later point. Sent from my iPhone with dictation software. Please excuse any spelling errors. On 02/12/2012, at 10:46 PM, Eugenia Firth wrote: > Thanks there > Well, I guess it boils down to the MacBook air or the Mac mini, if she's > getting a Mac. She didn't have a heart attack when I told her how much I paid > for my MacBook Pro, and she's planning on setting up her money for the next > seven months or so. Anyway, thanks for all the help guys. > Gigi > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 2, 2012, at 10:15 PM, Alex Hall wrote: > >> Yes, the mini starts at $600 I believe, but you then need the monitor and >> possibly an adapter or cable, depending on the monitor you choose. You also >> need a keyboard and, if she wants one, some kind of trackpad for gestures. >> So, assume the standard apple keyboard at $40 (for the wired one), a cheap >> monitor for $100, and the $60 trackpad and we've just gone up to $800. >> Especially if she will be getting training, you may want to stick with a >> mobile computer so she can take it around to different places. An iPad >> works, but it's hard to say that she will be happy with it once she starts >> to see what it can't do, such as play CDs or offer different voices. I love >> iPads and other iOS devices, I've just not heard good things about using >> them as computer replacements. >> >> The screen reader is NVDA (nvda-project.org), and it is free and >> open-source. You're right, there is no support for it since it is, well >> free, but I'm sure you can find people who can teach it. It is becoming more >> popular, so access tech specialists should know it. The speech is hard to >> get used to, but you will eventually. Still, it's no Alex or Serena but >> again the money problem. I'd like to stress once more that I would >> personally pick a mac every time, and I only bring up windows to point out >> that the cost difference may outweigh the benefits of the mac in this one >> case. If you can get around money, then the mac is the better choice. >> On Dec 2, 2012, at 10:40 PM, Eugenia Firth wrote: >> >>> Hi there >>> I'm not familiar with the screen reader you're talking about, which brings >>> up the question. Who's going to help her learn a Windows screen reader that >>> most blind people don't have? I mean quick, if she doesn't know someone who >>> has this screen reader, I think she stuck. The other question I have is, is >>> not a Mac mini cheaper than $1000? I haven't talk to her much about this >>> yet, but for what she wants, there is a good chance that she could use the >>> iPad And a keyboard. >>> I have another blind friend who decided to continue with a Windows >>> computer. She had learned Johnice and windows at work, and when she retired >>> she didn't want to change it. However, even though she had used the >>> computer at work, she is pretty shaky when it comes to problems with her >>> computer. This means that her computer guru brother has had to help her >>> almost immediately with this computer, And they live in different states. I >>> mention this because I see some blind people needing a great deal of >>> support in order to maintain their computers, and not all of them have that >>> support. >>> This lady that when you're talking about, as far as I know, is on her own. >>> I live in one city, she lives in another. This means I can't volunteer to >>> help her. Since I used Windows for a number of years before getting him >>> back, I could do it if we lived near each other. >>> I think a lot of us are forgetting here that what some of us on this list >>> could do quite fine, others who don't have our experience would find very >>> frustrating and not workable. This lady needs the keep it simple system. >>> She's very smart, but I don't think she would be motivated to learn >>> anything that took extreme amounts of time And effort. If she gets a >>> cheaper Windows computer and she gets a cheaper screen reader, I think she >>> will have to teach herself. >>> >>> >>> I appreciate any and all opinions on the subject. I asked for them, and I >>> welcome them. >>> Regards >>> Gigi Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Dec 2, 2012, at 11:04 AM, Alex Hall wrote: >>> Okay, please don't shoot me for this, but I think it needs to be mentioned. Sorry, but... why a mac? NVDA on Windows is much cheaper and does just as well in pretty much everything, even better in some areas (Safari, I'm looking at you and your lack of a flat representation). I know this is a mac list, and I'm not saying the mac is bad, but when you can get a reasonably good Windows laptop for $300, or the basic mac laptop for $1000, and where money is an issue... well, you see where I'm coming from I hope. On Dec 2, 2012, at 7:54
Screen reader demographics - Was Re: helping a blind friend get technology
For those interested, the WebAIM folks every so often do some survey research on screen readers. IN amongst the piles of stats is the Primary Screen Reader breakdown: http://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey4/#primary Unsurprisingly, for desktops, Jaws is the leader with 49% but NVDA is #2 with nearly 14%. Voiceover is #5 with 9%. Of course some of this is the nature of the marketplace where Windows is the dominant platform so Windows screen readers make up the lion's share of the users. Wikimedia stats have OSX as 8.5% of the market: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems In the analysis section of WebAIM's report they note that Jaws has been sinking from 66% in 2009 and 59% in 2010 but it would seem that many of those jumped to NVDA as it has risen from just 2.9% in 2009. Of course there's lots of other interesting data in there but for mobile screen readers Voicover is way ahead in the #1 spot with 49% followed by Nuance Talks with 18% http://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey4/#mobilescreenreaders CB On 12/2/12 11:15 PM, Alex Hall wrote: Yes, the mini starts at $600 I believe, but you then need the monitor and possibly an adapter or cable, depending on the monitor you choose. You also need a keyboard and, if she wants one, some kind of trackpad for gestures. So, assume the standard apple keyboard at $40 (for the wired one), a cheap monitor for $100, and the $60 trackpad and we've just gone up to $800. Especially if she will be getting training, you may want to stick with a mobile computer so she can take it around to different places. An iPad works, but it's hard to say that she will be happy with it once she starts to see what it can't do, such as play CDs or offer different voices. I love iPads and other iOS devices, I've just not heard good things about using them as computer replacements. The screen reader is NVDA (nvda-project.org), and it is free and open-source. You're right, there is no support for it since it is, well free, but I'm sure you can find people who can teach it. It is becoming more popular, so access tech specialists should know it. The speech is hard to get used to, but you will eventually. Still, it's no Alex or Serena but again the money problem. I'd like to stress once more that I would personally pick a mac every time, and I only bring up windows to point out that the cost difference may outweigh the benefits of the mac in this one case. If you can get around money, then the mac is the better choice. On Dec 2, 2012, at 10:40 PM, Eugenia Firth wrote: Hi there I'm not familiar with the screen reader you're talking about, which brings up the question. Who's going to help her learn a Windows screen reader that most blind people don't have? I mean quick, if she doesn't know someone who has this screen reader, I think she stuck. The other question I have is, is not a Mac mini cheaper than $1000? I haven't talk to her much about this yet, but for what she wants, there is a good chance that she could use the iPad And a keyboard. I have another blind friend who decided to continue with a Windows computer. She had learned Johnice and windows at work, and when she retired she didn't want to change it. However, even though she had used the computer at work, she is pretty shaky when it comes to problems with her computer. This means that her computer guru brother has had to help her almost immediately with this computer, And they live in different states. I mention this because I see some blind people needing a great deal of support in order to maintain their computers, and not all of them have that support. This lady that when you're talking about, as far as I know, is on her own. I live in one city, she lives in another. This means I can't volunteer to help her. Since I used Windows for a number of years before getting him back, I could do it if we lived near each other. I think a lot of us are forgetting here that what some of us on this list could do quite fine, others who don't have our experience would find very frustrating and not workable. This lady needs the keep it simple system. She's very smart, but I don't think she would be motivated to learn anything that took extreme amounts of time And effort. If she gets a cheaper Windows computer and she gets a cheaper screen reader, I think she will have to teach herself. I appreciate any and all opinions on the subject. I asked for them, and I welcome them. Regards Gigi Sent from my iPhone On Dec 2, 2012, at 11:04 AM, Alex Hall wrote: Okay, please don't shoot me for this, but I think it needs to be mentioned. Sorry, but... why a mac? NVDA on Windows is much cheaper and does just as well in pretty much everything, even better in some areas (Safari, I'm looking at you and your lack of a flat representation). I know this is a mac list, and I'm not saying the mac is bad, but when you can get a reasonably good Windows laptop for
Re: helping a blind friend get technology
I don't have a idfferent mac (yet) so can't say for sure. What I can say is that 2gb is not enough; if you do get the mini, which allows the user to upgrade the ram, I'd go for the cheapest option and then pick up 8gb of ram, which can be had for around $40, and pop it in in place of the default ram. I don't know if that would solve my problems, but I do know that switching to applications I haven't used in a while takes a long time as they load into ram from the hard drive, and that big apps like xCode or Garageband take forever to load. An ssd (solid-state drive) would definitely help too, but ram is the far cheaper upgrade option at this point. On Dec 3, 2012, at 9:26 AM, Eugenia Firth wrote: > Ok Alex. Are you saying that because the Mac Mini has less memory that more > strange things happen using VoiceOver than having a different Mac? > > On Dec 3, 2012, at 7:47 AM, Alex Hall wrote: > >> First, I use standard view, and second, I have a grand total of 2gb of ram >> to work with. I know I need more, but I'm saving up for a macbook so >> I don't want to sink any money into this mini if I don't have to. My point >> with that example, though, was that you have to know how the mac works and >> know all the tricks to be sure you know what to do when something strange >> happens. >> On Dec 3, 2012, at 7:06 AM, Shawn Krasniuk wrote: >> >>> Hi Alex. If you don't like Safari's approach to browsing the internet, >>> perhaps you should try Chrome. Chromevox has been updated significantly so >>> you can use up and down arrow keys like in Windows. In regards to your >>> comment about replying to an email in Mail and getting the "busy" message, >>> I am not reproducing this. I use mail in it's classic view that it had in >>> Snow Leopard with headers turned off with no problems at all. >>> >>> Shawn >>> Sent from my white Mac Book >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> >> >> >> Have a great day, >> Alex (msg sent from Mac Mini) >> mehg...@gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. Have a great day, Alex (msg sent from Mac Mini) mehg...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: helping a blind friend get technology
Ok Alex. Are you saying that because the Mac Mini has less memory that more strange things happen using VoiceOver than having a different Mac? On Dec 3, 2012, at 7:47 AM, Alex Hall wrote: > First, I use standard view, and second, I have a grand total of 2gb of ram to > work with. I know I need more, but I'm saving up for a macbook so I > don't want to sink any money into this mini if I don't have to. My point with > that example, though, was that you have to know how the mac works and know > all the tricks to be sure you know what to do when something strange happens. > On Dec 3, 2012, at 7:06 AM, Shawn Krasniuk wrote: > >> Hi Alex. If you don't like Safari's approach to browsing the internet, >> perhaps you should try Chrome. Chromevox has been updated significantly so >> you can use up and down arrow keys like in Windows. In regards to your >> comment about replying to an email in Mail and getting the "busy" message, I >> am not reproducing this. I use mail in it's classic view that it had in Snow >> Leopard with headers turned off with no problems at all. >> >> Shawn >> Sent from my white Mac Book >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > > > > Have a great day, > Alex (msg sent from Mac Mini) > mehg...@gmail.com > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: helping a blind friend get technology
First, I use standard view, and second, I have a grand total of 2gb of ram to work with. I know I need more, but I'm saving up for a macbook so I don't want to sink any money into this mini if I don't have to. My point with that example, though, was that you have to know how the mac works and know all the tricks to be sure you know what to do when something strange happens. On Dec 3, 2012, at 7:06 AM, Shawn Krasniuk wrote: > Hi Alex. If you don't like Safari's approach to browsing the internet, > perhaps you should try Chrome. Chromevox has been updated significantly so > you can use up and down arrow keys like in Windows. In regards to your > comment about replying to an email in Mail and getting the "busy" message, I > am not reproducing this. I use mail in it's classic view that it had in Snow > Leopard with headers turned off with no problems at all. > > Shawn > Sent from my white Mac Book > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. Have a great day, Alex (msg sent from Mac Mini) mehg...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: helping a blind friend get technology
Hi Alex. If you don't like Safari's approach to browsing the internet, perhaps you should try Chrome. Chromevox has been updated significantly so you can use up and down arrow keys like in Windows. In regards to your comment about replying to an email in Mail and getting the "busy" message, I am not reproducing this. I use mail in it's classic view that it had in Snow Leopard with headers turned off with no problems at all. Shawn Sent from my white Mac Book -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: helping a blind friend get technology
Thanks there Well, I guess it boils down to the MacBook air or the Mac mini, if she's getting a Mac. She didn't have a heart attack when I told her how much I paid for my MacBook Pro, and she's planning on setting up her money for the next seven months or so. Anyway, thanks for all the help guys. Gigi Sent from my iPhone On Dec 2, 2012, at 10:15 PM, Alex Hall wrote: > Yes, the mini starts at $600 I believe, but you then need the monitor and > possibly an adapter or cable, depending on the monitor you choose. You also > need a keyboard and, if she wants one, some kind of trackpad for gestures. > So, assume the standard apple keyboard at $40 (for the wired one), a cheap > monitor for $100, and the $60 trackpad and we've just gone up to $800. > Especially if she will be getting training, you may want to stick with a > mobile computer so she can take it around to different places. An iPad works, > but it's hard to say that she will be happy with it once she starts to see > what it can't do, such as play CDs or offer different voices. I love iPads > and other iOS devices, I've just not heard good things about using them as > computer replacements. > > The screen reader is NVDA (nvda-project.org), and it is free and open-source. > You're right, there is no support for it since it is, well free, but I'm sure > you can find people who can teach it. It is becoming more popular, so access > tech specialists should know it. The speech is hard to get used to, but you > will eventually. Still, it's no Alex or Serena but again the money > problem. I'd like to stress once more that I would personally pick a mac > every time, and I only bring up windows to point out that the cost difference > may outweigh the benefits of the mac in this one case. If you can get around > money, then the mac is the better choice. > On Dec 2, 2012, at 10:40 PM, Eugenia Firth wrote: > >> Hi there >> I'm not familiar with the screen reader you're talking about, which brings >> up the question. Who's going to help her learn a Windows screen reader that >> most blind people don't have? I mean quick, if she doesn't know someone who >> has this screen reader, I think she stuck. The other question I have is, is >> not a Mac mini cheaper than $1000? I haven't talk to her much about this >> yet, but for what she wants, there is a good chance that she could use the >> iPad And a keyboard. >> I have another blind friend who decided to continue with a Windows computer. >> She had learned Johnice and windows at work, and when she retired she didn't >> want to change it. However, even though she had used the computer at work, >> she is pretty shaky when it comes to problems with her computer. This means >> that her computer guru brother has had to help her almost immediately with >> this computer, And they live in different states. I mention this because I >> see some blind people needing a great deal of support in order to maintain >> their computers, and not all of them have that support. >> This lady that when you're talking about, as far as I know, is on her own. I >> live in one city, she lives in another. This means I can't volunteer to help >> her. Since I used Windows for a number of years before getting him back, I >> could do it if we lived near each other. >> I think a lot of us are forgetting here that what some of us on this list >> could do quite fine, others who don't have our experience would find very >> frustrating and not workable. This lady needs the keep it simple system. >> She's very smart, but I don't think she would be motivated to learn anything >> that took extreme amounts of time And effort. If she gets a cheaper Windows >> computer and she gets a cheaper screen reader, I think she will have to >> teach herself. >> >> >> I appreciate any and all opinions on the subject. I asked for them, and I >> welcome them. >> Regards >> Gigi Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 2, 2012, at 11:04 AM, Alex Hall wrote: >> >>> Okay, please don't shoot me for this, but I think it needs to be mentioned. >>> Sorry, but... why a mac? NVDA on Windows is much cheaper and does just as >>> well in pretty much everything, even better in some areas (Safari, I'm >>> looking at you and your lack of a flat representation). I know this is a >>> mac list, and I'm not saying the mac is bad, but when you can get a >>> reasonably good Windows laptop for $300, or the basic mac laptop for $1000, >>> and where money is an issue... well, you see where I'm coming from I hope. >>> On Dec 2, 2012, at 7:54 AM, Eugenia Firth wrote: >>> Hi y'all I have a blind friend who I think is totally blind, at the very least close to it. She's not quite ready yet to get her technology, but she and I have agreed we're going to visit that issue in June when I am going to Houston where she lives. This friend, in my opinion, needs a Mac or an iPad because she can't get training because of
Re: helping a blind friend get technology
Yes, the mini starts at $600 I believe, but you then need the monitor and possibly an adapter or cable, depending on the monitor you choose. You also need a keyboard and, if she wants one, some kind of trackpad for gestures. So, assume the standard apple keyboard at $40 (for the wired one), a cheap monitor for $100, and the $60 trackpad and we've just gone up to $800. Especially if she will be getting training, you may want to stick with a mobile computer so she can take it around to different places. An iPad works, but it's hard to say that she will be happy with it once she starts to see what it can't do, such as play CDs or offer different voices. I love iPads and other iOS devices, I've just not heard good things about using them as computer replacements. The screen reader is NVDA (nvda-project.org), and it is free and open-source. You're right, there is no support for it since it is, well free, but I'm sure you can find people who can teach it. It is becoming more popular, so access tech specialists should know it. The speech is hard to get used to, but you will eventually. Still, it's no Alex or Serena but again the money problem. I'd like to stress once more that I would personally pick a mac every time, and I only bring up windows to point out that the cost difference may outweigh the benefits of the mac in this one case. If you can get around money, then the mac is the better choice. On Dec 2, 2012, at 10:40 PM, Eugenia Firth wrote: > Hi there > I'm not familiar with the screen reader you're talking about, which brings > up the question. Who's going to help her learn a Windows screen reader that > most blind people don't have? I mean quick, if she doesn't know someone who > has this screen reader, I think she stuck. The other question I have is, is > not a Mac mini cheaper than $1000? I haven't talk to her much about this yet, > but for what she wants, there is a good chance that she could use the iPad > And a keyboard. > I have another blind friend who decided to continue with a Windows computer. > She had learned Johnice and windows at work, and when she retired she didn't > want to change it. However, even though she had used the computer at work, > she is pretty shaky when it comes to problems with her computer. This means > that her computer guru brother has had to help her almost immediately with > this computer, And they live in different states. I mention this because I > see some blind people needing a great deal of support in order to maintain > their computers, and not all of them have that support. > This lady that when you're talking about, as far as I know, is on her own. I > live in one city, she lives in another. This means I can't volunteer to help > her. Since I used Windows for a number of years before getting him back, I > could do it if we lived near each other. > I think a lot of us are forgetting here that what some of us on this list > could do quite fine, others who don't have our experience would find very > frustrating and not workable. This lady needs the keep it simple system. > She's very smart, but I don't think she would be motivated to learn anything > that took extreme amounts of time And effort. If she gets a cheaper Windows > computer and she gets a cheaper screen reader, I think she will have to > teach herself. > > > I appreciate any and all opinions on the subject. I asked for them, and I > welcome them. > Regards > Gigi Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 2, 2012, at 11:04 AM, Alex Hall wrote: > >> Okay, please don't shoot me for this, but I think it needs to be mentioned. >> Sorry, but... why a mac? NVDA on Windows is much cheaper and does just as >> well in pretty much everything, even better in some areas (Safari, I'm >> looking at you and your lack of a flat representation). I know this is a mac >> list, and I'm not saying the mac is bad, but when you can get a reasonably >> good Windows laptop for $300, or the basic mac laptop for $1000, and where >> money is an issue... well, you see where I'm coming from I hope. >> On Dec 2, 2012, at 7:54 AM, Eugenia Firth wrote: >> >>> Hi y'all >>> I have a blind friend who I think is totally blind, at the very least close >>> to it. She's not quite ready yet to get her technology, but she and I have >>> agreed we're going to visit that issue in June when I am going to Houston >>> where she lives. This friend, in my opinion, needs a Mac or an iPad because >>> she can't get training because of you know why and has limited computer >>> skills now. Money is an issue for this lady, so we need to get the best for >>> her for what she can do. >>> >>> If she gets a Mac of any variety, she can sign up for one to one training >>> and go there once a week if needed. I know there are some issues with this >>> for VoiceOver users, but I think if we have a nice talk with the manager we >>> can get someone who is willing to work with her who is willing to take som
Re: helping a blind friend get technology
I am very excited to go home for Christmas. I miss my family very much. I wish I could see you soon. Matt Sent from my mac Twitter: matt692 On 2012-12-02, at 8:42 PM, Eugenia Firth wrote: > Hi there > Yes, I did mention the possibility of getting a used Mac for her. She was > receptive to the idea. I will keep this information that you sent on hand so > that we can look into it when she's ready. Thanks for your help on that too. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 2, 2012, at 10:45 AM, Frank Tom wrote: > >> Also, try picking up a used Mac for her. Small Dog Electronics in >> Burlington Vermont offers discounted used Macs, but I would search locally, >> first. If she has any usable vision and portability is not an issue, try an >> IMac instead. >> good luck. >> Tom >> vermont...@gmail.com >> >> >> >> On Dec 2, 2012, at 7:54 AM, Eugenia Firth wrote: >> >>> Hi y'all >>> I have a blind friend who I think is totally blind, at the very least close >>> to it. She's not quite ready yet to get her technology, but she and I have >>> agreed we're going to visit that issue in June when I am going to Houston >>> where she lives. This friend, in my opinion, needs a Mac or an iPad because >>> she can't get training because of you know why and has limited computer >>> skills now. Money is an issue for this lady, so we need to get the best for >>> her for what she can do. >>> >>> If she gets a Mac of any variety, she can sign up for one to one training >>> and go there once a week if needed. I know there are some issues with this >>> for VoiceOver users, but I think if we have a nice talk with the manager we >>> can get someone who is willing to work with her who is willing to take some >>> extra effort and would consider it fun. Of the two Mac computers, the Mac >>> Mini and the MacBook Air, which one would you guys consider the best for a >>> situation like hers? If she gets an iPad, she would probably need to rely >>> on her blind friends who have iPhones and/or iPads to help her. I don't >>> think this lady can take the group classes Apple offers for IOS devices >>> like the iPhone because I don't think she could keep up, given her current >>> computer knowledge. This lady is in her seventies and has decided to move >>> into the 21st century because she is seeing a need for email. >>> >>> Thanks guys for your opinions on this. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Gigi >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: helping a blind friend get technology
Thanks Mark. I'll let her know. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 2, 2012, at 8:59 AM, Mark Baxter wrote: > GIGI: > > Not to shamelessly promote and use the list for ad space, but I work for one > organization, and am planning to set up my own similar organization soon, > which trains blind persons on Mac and IOS devices. Check out > www.blindaccesstraining.com > and see if one of our trainers may be able to help. > > > • Mark BurningHawk Baxter > • AIM, Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > • MSN: burninghawk1...@hotmail.com > • My home page: > • http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: helping a blind friend get technology
Hi there Yes, I did mention the possibility of getting a used Mac for her. She was receptive to the idea. I will keep this information that you sent on hand so that we can look into it when she's ready. Thanks for your help on that too. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 2, 2012, at 10:45 AM, Frank Tom wrote: > Also, try picking up a used Mac for her. Small Dog Electronics in Burlington > Vermont offers discounted used Macs, but I would search locally, first. If > she has any usable vision and portability is not an issue, try an IMac > instead. > good luck. > Tom > vermont...@gmail.com > > > > On Dec 2, 2012, at 7:54 AM, Eugenia Firth wrote: > >> Hi y'all >> I have a blind friend who I think is totally blind, at the very least close >> to it. She's not quite ready yet to get her technology, but she and I have >> agreed we're going to visit that issue in June when I am going to Houston >> where she lives. This friend, in my opinion, needs a Mac or an iPad because >> she can't get training because of you know why and has limited computer >> skills now. Money is an issue for this lady, so we need to get the best for >> her for what she can do. >> >> If she gets a Mac of any variety, she can sign up for one to one training >> and go there once a week if needed. I know there are some issues with this >> for VoiceOver users, but I think if we have a nice talk with the manager we >> can get someone who is willing to work with her who is willing to take some >> extra effort and would consider it fun. Of the two Mac computers, the Mac >> Mini and the MacBook Air, which one would you guys consider the best for a >> situation like hers? If she gets an iPad, she would probably need to rely on >> her blind friends who have iPhones and/or iPads to help her. I don't think >> this lady can take the group classes Apple offers for IOS devices like the >> iPhone because I don't think she could keep up, given her current computer >> knowledge. This lady is in her seventies and has decided to move into the >> 21st century because she is seeing a need for email. >> >> Thanks guys for your opinions on this. >> >> Regards, >> Gigi >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: helping a blind friend get technology
Hi there I'm not familiar with the screen reader you're talking about, which brings up the question. Who's going to help her learn a Windows screen reader that most blind people don't have? I mean quick, if she doesn't know someone who has this screen reader, I think she stuck. The other question I have is, is not a Mac mini cheaper than $1000? I haven't talk to her much about this yet, but for what she wants, there is a good chance that she could use the iPad And a keyboard. I have another blind friend who decided to continue with a Windows computer. She had learned Johnice and windows at work, and when she retired she didn't want to change it. However, even though she had used the computer at work, she is pretty shaky when it comes to problems with her computer. This means that her computer guru brother has had to help her almost immediately with this computer, And they live in different states. I mention this because I see some blind people needing a great deal of support in order to maintain their computers, and not all of them have that support. This lady that when you're talking about, as far as I know, is on her own. I live in one city, she lives in another. This means I can't volunteer to help her. Since I used Windows for a number of years before getting him back, I could do it if we lived near each other. I think a lot of us are forgetting here that what some of us on this list could do quite fine, others who don't have our experience would find very frustrating and not workable. This lady needs the keep it simple system. She's very smart, but I don't think she would be motivated to learn anything that took extreme amounts of time And effort. If she gets a cheaper Windows computer and she gets a cheaper screen reader, I think she will have to teach herself. I appreciate any and all opinions on the subject. I asked for them, and I welcome them. Regards Gigi Sent from my iPhone On Dec 2, 2012, at 11:04 AM, Alex Hall wrote: > Okay, please don't shoot me for this, but I think it needs to be mentioned. > Sorry, but... why a mac? NVDA on Windows is much cheaper and does just as > well in pretty much everything, even better in some areas (Safari, I'm > looking at you and your lack of a flat representation). I know this is a mac > list, and I'm not saying the mac is bad, but when you can get a reasonably > good Windows laptop for $300, or the basic mac laptop for $1000, and where > money is an issue... well, you see where I'm coming from I hope. > On Dec 2, 2012, at 7:54 AM, Eugenia Firth wrote: > >> Hi y'all >> I have a blind friend who I think is totally blind, at the very least close >> to it. She's not quite ready yet to get her technology, but she and I have >> agreed we're going to visit that issue in June when I am going to Houston >> where she lives. This friend, in my opinion, needs a Mac or an iPad because >> she can't get training because of you know why and has limited computer >> skills now. Money is an issue for this lady, so we need to get the best for >> her for what she can do. >> >> If she gets a Mac of any variety, she can sign up for one to one training >> and go there once a week if needed. I know there are some issues with this >> for VoiceOver users, but I think if we have a nice talk with the manager we >> can get someone who is willing to work with her who is willing to take some >> extra effort and would consider it fun. Of the two Mac computers, the Mac >> Mini and the MacBook Air, which one would you guys consider the best for a >> situation like hers? If she gets an iPad, she would probably need to rely on >> her blind friends who have iPhones and/or iPads to help her. I don't think >> this lady can take the group classes Apple offers for IOS devices like the >> iPhone because I don't think she could keep up, given her current computer >> knowledge. This lady is in her seventies and has decided to move into the >> 21st century because she is seeing a need for email. >> >> Thanks guys for your opinions on this. >> >> Regards, >> Gigi >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > > > Have a great day, > Alex (msg sent from Mac Mini) > mehg...@gmail.com > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you ar
Re: helping a blind friend get technology
Cheree Heppe here: Suggest that, if possible, that the lady visit both the Apple store and somebody with a modified Windows machine and get a feel for which would be best. Regards, Cheree Heppe Sent from my IPhone 4S On 02/12/2012, at 9:20, Alex Hall wrote: > I see what you're saying. Still, macs can now get viruses, so you'll need to > protect against that whichever way you go. Yes, macs are more stable, but > when things go wrong you have to know what you're doing to get them back. For > instance, I'll sometimes hit reply in mail and get "mail busy", followed by > "mail ready". I finally figured out I have to cmd-accent twice to get to the > reply window, because vo won't focus on it by default if mail is busy and > cmd-tabbing fails to reset focus. Things like that which I've seen throw off > new users are what I'm talking about. Again, I'm not in favor of windows in > general, but where money is tight in this situation... > On Dec 2, 2012, at 12:08 PM, Mauricio Almeida > wrote: > >> well, let me tell you a few things here: >> 1: windows are n to as safe as macs are, which adds trouble for the novice >> user. >> 2: windows computers are much less stable than the macs. >> 3: nvda isn't something she will be able to get support for,unless she >> enters a list, which already involves some learning within itself, whereas >> voice over's support is already with the mac. >> 4: why would someone start utilizing technology with something as not >> inclusive as windows if she could use a mc and be able to use every mac in >> the world after that with no additional work? >> >> most times, you will find the money spent pays off. >> >> mauricio >> On Dec 2, 2012, at 12:04 PM, Alex Hall wrote: >> >>> Okay, please don't shoot me for this, but I think it needs to be mentioned. >>> Sorry, but... why a mac? NVDA on Windows is much cheaper and does just as >>> well in pretty much everything, even better in some areas (Safari, I'm >>> looking at you and your lack of a flat representation). I know this is a >>> mac list, and I'm not saying the mac is bad, but when you can get a >>> reasonably good Windows laptop for $300, or the basic mac laptop for $1000, >>> and where money is an issue... well, you see where I'm coming from I hope. >>> On Dec 2, 2012, at 7:54 AM, Eugenia Firth wrote: >>> Hi y'all I have a blind friend who I think is totally blind, at the very least close to it. She's not quite ready yet to get her technology, but she and I have agreed we're going to visit that issue in June when I am going to Houston where she lives. This friend, in my opinion, needs a Mac or an iPad because she can't get training because of you know why and has limited computer skills now. Money is an issue for this lady, so we need to get the best for her for what she can do. If she gets a Mac of any variety, she can sign up for one to one training and go there once a week if needed. I know there are some issues with this for VoiceOver users, but I think if we have a nice talk with the manager we can get someone who is willing to work with her who is willing to take some extra effort and would consider it fun. Of the two Mac computers, the Mac Mini and the MacBook Air, which one would you guys consider the best for a situation like hers? If she gets an iPad, she would probably need to rely on her blind friends who have iPhones and/or iPads to help her. I don't think this lady can take the group classes Apple offers for IOS devices like the iPhone because I don't think she could keep up, given her current computer knowledge. This lady is in her seventies and has decided to move into the 21st century because she is seeing a need for email. Thanks guys for your opinions on this. Regards, Gigi -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >>> >>> >>> Have a great day, >>> Alex (msg sent from Mac Mini) >>> mehg...@gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@
Re: helping a blind friend get technology
I see what you're saying. Still, macs can now get viruses, so you'll need to protect against that whichever way you go. Yes, macs are more stable, but when things go wrong you have to know what you're doing to get them back. For instance, I'll sometimes hit reply in mail and get "mail busy", followed by "mail ready". I finally figured out I have to cmd-accent twice to get to the reply window, because vo won't focus on it by default if mail is busy and cmd-tabbing fails to reset focus. Things like that which I've seen throw off new users are what I'm talking about. Again, I'm not in favor of windows in general, but where money is tight in this situation... On Dec 2, 2012, at 12:08 PM, Mauricio Almeida wrote: > well, let me tell you a few things here: > 1: windows are n to as safe as macs are, which adds trouble for the novice > user. > 2: windows computers are much less stable than the macs. > 3: nvda isn't something she will be able to get support for,unless she enters > a list, which already involves some learning within itself, whereas voice > over's support is already with the mac. > 4: why would someone start utilizing technology with something as not > inclusive as windows if she could use a mc and be able to use every mac in > the world after that with no additional work? > > most times, you will find the money spent pays off. > > mauricio > On Dec 2, 2012, at 12:04 PM, Alex Hall wrote: > >> Okay, please don't shoot me for this, but I think it needs to be mentioned. >> Sorry, but... why a mac? NVDA on Windows is much cheaper and does just as >> well in pretty much everything, even better in some areas (Safari, I'm >> looking at you and your lack of a flat representation). I know this is a mac >> list, and I'm not saying the mac is bad, but when you can get a reasonably >> good Windows laptop for $300, or the basic mac laptop for $1000, and where >> money is an issue... well, you see where I'm coming from I hope. >> On Dec 2, 2012, at 7:54 AM, Eugenia Firth wrote: >> >>> Hi y'all >>> I have a blind friend who I think is totally blind, at the very least close >>> to it. She's not quite ready yet to get her technology, but she and I have >>> agreed we're going to visit that issue in June when I am going to Houston >>> where she lives. This friend, in my opinion, needs a Mac or an iPad because >>> she can't get training because of you know why and has limited computer >>> skills now. Money is an issue for this lady, so we need to get the best for >>> her for what she can do. >>> >>> If she gets a Mac of any variety, she can sign up for one to one training >>> and go there once a week if needed. I know there are some issues with this >>> for VoiceOver users, but I think if we have a nice talk with the manager we >>> can get someone who is willing to work with her who is willing to take some >>> extra effort and would consider it fun. Of the two Mac computers, the Mac >>> Mini and the MacBook Air, which one would you guys consider the best for a >>> situation like hers? If she gets an iPad, she would probably need to rely >>> on her blind friends who have iPhones and/or iPads to help her. I don't >>> think this lady can take the group classes Apple offers for IOS devices >>> like the iPhone because I don't think she could keep up, given her current >>> computer knowledge. This lady is in her seventies and has decided to move >>> into the 21st century because she is seeing a need for email. >>> >>> Thanks guys for your opinions on this. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Gigi >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >> >> >> >> Have a great day, >> Alex (msg sent from Mac Mini) >> mehg...@gmail.com >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > Have a great day, Alex (msg sent from Mac Mini) mehg...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisi
Re: helping a blind friend get technology
well, let me tell you a few things here: 1: windows are n to as safe as macs are, which adds trouble for the novice user. 2: windows computers are much less stable than the macs. 3: nvda isn't something she will be able to get support for,unless she enters a list, which already involves some learning within itself, whereas voice over's support is already with the mac. 4: why would someone start utilizing technology with something as not inclusive as windows if she could use a mc and be able to use every mac in the world after that with no additional work? most times, you will find the money spent pays off. mauricio On Dec 2, 2012, at 12:04 PM, Alex Hall wrote: > Okay, please don't shoot me for this, but I think it needs to be mentioned. > Sorry, but... why a mac? NVDA on Windows is much cheaper and does just as > well in pretty much everything, even better in some areas (Safari, I'm > looking at you and your lack of a flat representation). I know this is a mac > list, and I'm not saying the mac is bad, but when you can get a reasonably > good Windows laptop for $300, or the basic mac laptop for $1000, and where > money is an issue... well, you see where I'm coming from I hope. > On Dec 2, 2012, at 7:54 AM, Eugenia Firth wrote: > >> Hi y'all >> I have a blind friend who I think is totally blind, at the very least close >> to it. She's not quite ready yet to get her technology, but she and I have >> agreed we're going to visit that issue in June when I am going to Houston >> where she lives. This friend, in my opinion, needs a Mac or an iPad because >> she can't get training because of you know why and has limited computer >> skills now. Money is an issue for this lady, so we need to get the best for >> her for what she can do. >> >> If she gets a Mac of any variety, she can sign up for one to one training >> and go there once a week if needed. I know there are some issues with this >> for VoiceOver users, but I think if we have a nice talk with the manager we >> can get someone who is willing to work with her who is willing to take some >> extra effort and would consider it fun. Of the two Mac computers, the Mac >> Mini and the MacBook Air, which one would you guys consider the best for a >> situation like hers? If she gets an iPad, she would probably need to rely on >> her blind friends who have iPhones and/or iPads to help her. I don't think >> this lady can take the group classes Apple offers for IOS devices like the >> iPhone because I don't think she could keep up, given her current computer >> knowledge. This lady is in her seventies and has decided to move into the >> 21st century because she is seeing a need for email. >> >> Thanks guys for your opinions on this. >> >> Regards, >> Gigi >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > > > Have a great day, > Alex (msg sent from Mac Mini) > mehg...@gmail.com > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: helping a blind friend get technology
Okay, please don't shoot me for this, but I think it needs to be mentioned. Sorry, but... why a mac? NVDA on Windows is much cheaper and does just as well in pretty much everything, even better in some areas (Safari, I'm looking at you and your lack of a flat representation). I know this is a mac list, and I'm not saying the mac is bad, but when you can get a reasonably good Windows laptop for $300, or the basic mac laptop for $1000, and where money is an issue... well, you see where I'm coming from I hope. On Dec 2, 2012, at 7:54 AM, Eugenia Firth wrote: > Hi y'all > I have a blind friend who I think is totally blind, at the very least close > to it. She's not quite ready yet to get her technology, but she and I have > agreed we're going to visit that issue in June when I am going to Houston > where she lives. This friend, in my opinion, needs a Mac or an iPad because > she can't get training because of you know why and has limited computer > skills now. Money is an issue for this lady, so we need to get the best for > her for what she can do. > > If she gets a Mac of any variety, she can sign up for one to one training and > go there once a week if needed. I know there are some issues with this for > VoiceOver users, but I think if we have a nice talk with the manager we can > get someone who is willing to work with her who is willing to take some extra > effort and would consider it fun. Of the two Mac computers, the Mac Mini and > the MacBook Air, which one would you guys consider the best for a situation > like hers? If she gets an iPad, she would probably need to rely on her blind > friends who have iPhones and/or iPads to help her. I don't think this lady > can take the group classes Apple offers for IOS devices like the iPhone > because I don't think she could keep up, given her current computer > knowledge. This lady is in her seventies and has decided to move into the > 21st century because she is seeing a need for email. > > Thanks guys for your opinions on this. > > Regards, > Gigi > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > Have a great day, Alex (msg sent from Mac Mini) mehg...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: helping a blind friend get technology
Also, try picking up a used Mac for her. Small Dog Electronics in Burlington Vermont offers discounted used Macs, but I would search locally, first. If she has any usable vision and portability is not an issue, try an IMac instead. good luck. Tom vermont...@gmail.com On Dec 2, 2012, at 7:54 AM, Eugenia Firth wrote: > Hi y'all > I have a blind friend who I think is totally blind, at the very least close > to it. She's not quite ready yet to get her technology, but she and I have > agreed we're going to visit that issue in June when I am going to Houston > where she lives. This friend, in my opinion, needs a Mac or an iPad because > she can't get training because of you know why and has limited computer > skills now. Money is an issue for this lady, so we need to get the best for > her for what she can do. > > If she gets a Mac of any variety, she can sign up for one to one training and > go there once a week if needed. I know there are some issues with this for > VoiceOver users, but I think if we have a nice talk with the manager we can > get someone who is willing to work with her who is willing to take some extra > effort and would consider it fun. Of the two Mac computers, the Mac Mini and > the MacBook Air, which one would you guys consider the best for a situation > like hers? If she gets an iPad, she would probably need to rely on her blind > friends who have iPhones and/or iPads to help her. I don't think this lady > can take the group classes Apple offers for IOS devices like the iPhone > because I don't think she could keep up, given her current computer > knowledge. This lady is in her seventies and has decided to move into the > 21st century because she is seeing a need for email. > > Thanks guys for your opinions on this. > > Regards, > Gigi > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: helping a blind friend get technology
GIGI: Not to shamelessly promote and use the list for ad space, but I work for one organization, and am planning to set up my own similar organization soon, which trains blind persons on Mac and IOS devices. Check out www.blindaccesstraining.com and see if one of our trainers may be able to help. • Mark BurningHawk Baxter • AIM, Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 • MSN: burninghawk1...@hotmail.com • My home page: • http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
