Re: Safari and clickable elements
Hi Ed, First, here's how to have VO announce what's under your mouse cursor. Open VoiceOver Utility (VO+F8), go to "Verbosity" (with arrow keys or Command-2), then select the "Announcements" tab. Check the box for "Speak text under mouse after delay", then interact with the slider and set the delay to 0 seconds. Close the window with Command-W. Now if you move your mouse cursor with Mouse Keys, or if you move your finger along the Trackpad, VO will speak what is under the mouse. You can also use your Trackpad to explore your screen this way, and move to locations independent of navigating to controls that are exposed to VoiceOver, if you set VoiceOver to speak text under the mouse this way, and turn cursor tracking off (VO+Shift+F3; but remember to turn it on again with the same shortcut when you're done; and when you use your Trackpad this way you should not have Trackpad Commander enabled). There are other commands that will describe what is under the VoiceOver cursor, whether or not you you have your verbosity set to speak text under the mouse. VO+F5 will describe what is under the mouse, while VO+F5+F5 and VO+F5+F5+F5 will describe the x and y pixel coordinates of your mouse cursor (relative to the top left corner of your screen, or of your window). (If you use these with Mouse Keys, it can be helpful to lock your VoiceOver keys with VO+semi-colon before turning Mouse Keys on. That way you only have to press the F5 key to report positions. Again, remember to unlock your VoiceOver keys by pressing semi-colon when you are done.) Hope this did not overload you with information. For many instances, just using the Trackpad, without necessarily having to use Mouse Keys, may give you the accessibility that you need. And for information purposes, most controls and icons on the screen are extended in size, You'll hear VO announce that element when the mouse cursor is anywhere over the icon. For example, if you explore the menu bar icons with Mouse Keys, most of the icons are 30 pixels by 30 pixels in size. On web pages, some web designers will make the clickable area large for ease of use. On your question about VO+space bar, you would normally be able to click, or Control+Click with mouse or trackpad (for a context menu), to perform any actions via hardware clicks. Do you need to use VO+space bar? HTH. Cheers, Esther On Tuesday, July 30, 2013 11:24:14 AM UTC-10, Edward Green wrote: > Hi all, > > > > Many thanks for your helpful responses. > > > > Esther, thanks for the detail on navigating with the mouse - that was going > to be my next question. > > > > I have a couple of follow up questions on your post if that's ok. > > > > Firstly, if I have mouse keys enabled, are there any settings I need to > change in order to get Voiceover to read items under the mouse as I navigate? > I took from your post that there might be, but wasn't sure. > > > > Secondly, when I turn mouse keys on in Accessibility under System > Preferences, VO spacebar ceases to work, and I wondered why this might be. I > know you said that mouse keys could create conflicts on laptops, but I don't > have numpad commander enabled. I was able to rectify the situation by using > the trackpad to unstick the setting, and have just set up the option key as a > toggle. > > > > Thanks for any help. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Ed > > On 29 Jul 2013, at 22:54, Esther wrote: > > > > > Hi Ed, > > > > > > To add to what Teresa said, when you use VO-Space this is a > > VoiceOver-specifc software shortcut that means "perform the default action" > > for a given situation -- which could be to click on an element. > > VO-Shift-Space is another VoiceOver specific software shortcut for clicking > > your mouse cursor. Pressing the return key will return the default > > selections in dialog windows, and is hardware-based and does not rely on > > whether you are using VoiceOver, but it doesn't have an effect when you are > > supposed to click with a mouse or trackpad on a web page element. > > > > > > I usually distinguish between "hardware clicks" and "software clicks". > > Hardware clicks (with TrackPad, Mouse, or with the Mouse Keys accessibility > > solution) work everywhere. VoiceOver-specific software keyclicks may work > > if an application is accessible, but otherwise may not work. > > > > > > The other part of clicking on a web element such as a clickable element is > > making sure that your mouse cursor is actually on the element in question. > > (This is really annoying, because in some cases I have to change my cursor > > tracking preferences under VoiceOVer Utility to either "Mouse Cursor > > follows VoiceOver Cursor" or "Mouse Cursor moves VoiceOver Cursor" in order > > for things to work in environments of transitioning accessibility, such as > > in the iCloud or old Mobile Me web pages, or when iTunes or Automator was > > first being made ac
Re: Safari and clickable elements
Hi all, Many thanks for your helpful responses. Esther, thanks for the detail on navigating with the mouse - that was going to be my next question. I have a couple of follow up questions on your post if that's ok. Firstly, if I have mouse keys enabled, are there any settings I need to change in order to get Voiceover to read items under the mouse as I navigate? I took from your post that there might be, but wasn't sure. Secondly, when I turn mouse keys on in Accessibility under System Preferences, VO spacebar ceases to work, and I wondered why this might be. I know you said that mouse keys could create conflicts on laptops, but I don't have numpad commander enabled. I was able to rectify the situation by using the trackpad to unstick the setting, and have just set up the option key as a toggle. Thanks for any help. Cheers, Ed On 29 Jul 2013, at 22:54, Esther wrote: > Hi Ed, > > To add to what Teresa said, when you use VO-Space this is a > VoiceOver-specifc software shortcut that means "perform the default action" > for a given situation -- which could be to click on an element. > VO-Shift-Space is another VoiceOver specific software shortcut for clicking > your mouse cursor. Pressing the return key will return the default > selections in dialog windows, and is hardware-based and does not rely on > whether you are using VoiceOver, but it doesn't have an effect when you are > supposed to click with a mouse or trackpad on a web page element. > > I usually distinguish between "hardware clicks" and "software clicks". > Hardware clicks (with TrackPad, Mouse, or with the Mouse Keys accessibility > solution) work everywhere. VoiceOver-specific software keyclicks may work if > an application is accessible, but otherwise may not work. > > The other part of clicking on a web element such as a clickable element is > making sure that your mouse cursor is actually on the element in question. > (This is really annoying, because in some cases I have to change my cursor > tracking preferences under VoiceOVer Utility to either "Mouse Cursor follows > VoiceOver Cursor" or "Mouse Cursor moves VoiceOver Cursor" in order for > things to work in environments of transitioning accessibility, such as in the > iCloud or old Mobile Me web pages, or when iTunes or Automator was first > being made accessible). However, in most instances you only need to make > sure, after routing your mouse cursor to your VoiceOver cursor, that you > issue a "hardware click". > > Since I don't use a mouse with my Mac laptops, I usually click on elements > using Mouse Keys. If you are using a full size keyboard with NumPad > Commander turned on, you can alternatively use the NumPad Commander shortcut > to click (I think this is Control+"5" on the numeric keypad if you use the > default settings, but you should check this). And if you use the TrackPad > you should turn off TrackPad Commander and make sure that you press down hard > enough to register a click. > > You should not have both Mouse Keys and NumPad Commander turned on at the > same time, because they lead to conflicting key definitions. (On a laptop, > this can make some of your keys completely unusable until you sort this.) > > Mouse Keys is an accessibility solution for people with motion disabilities > that make it difficult for them to move a mouse precisely to a link or form > control where they need to click or activate or enter text. VoiceOver users > can use Mouse Keys in a couple of settings: 1) to click on elements like your > clickable links where there are accessibility issues in the setup or > application that prevent the VoiceOver shortcuts from working correctly and > 2) to move the mouse cursor to screen locations independently of VoiceOver's > navigation. Again, case 2 is an accessibility problem area. It may be that > player controls can be activated by clicking on them, but the controls are > not exposed to VoiceOver, so you can't move there independently. However, if > you can move your mouse cursor to that position, and click, you can activate > the controls. If you set up VoiceOver to announce what's under the mouse as > you move over the controls navigating with Mouse Keys, you can find out where > the controls are and then click them. Usually, you use external clues for > the position of the controls so you're not exploring randomly. Once your > know where they are relative to a screen element that VoiceOver can see, you > can navigate there again knowing the offsets. > > Hope this sketchy explanation works. On extended keyboards, the Mouse Keys > are the 9 number keys of the numeric keypad, with the central "5" key acting > as the current position of the mouse that can be clicked. Pressing the > number keys around that position moves the mouse one screen pixel in that > direction (left, right, up, down, or diagonally). So if you press the "4" > key to the left of the "5", you
Re: Safari and clickable elements
thanks ester. helpful post as usual. You're a gem. Warm regards and blessings Maria, Joe and FurBabies Email: iMessage:bubbygirl1...@gmail.com On 30/07/2013, at 8:07 AM, Esther wrote: > Hi Maria, > > Hopefully, when you turned TrackPad Commander off, you didn't move position > when you use the rotor gesture. If you use Mouse Keys to click, there's an > option you can check to ignore built-in trackpad when mouse keys are being > used. Also, presumably you can also check position on the elements with > keyboard and navigation shortcuts, and route your mouse cursor to your > VoiceOver cursor with VO+Command+F5. Finally, there are shortcuts like VO+F5 > to describe what is under the mouse that you could set up custom gestures for. > > HTH. Cheers, > > Esther > > On 29 Jul 2013, at 11:13, Maria and Joe Chapman wrote: > >> HI. when you turn track pad commander off how do you figure out where you >> are? thanks >> Blessings! >> maria and Joe chapman >> Email, iMessage & fb: bubbygirl1...@gmail.com >> twitter: bubbygirl >> >> >> >> On 30/07/2013, at 7:06 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote: >> >>> Clickable elements can be very tricky, depending on how the web designer >>> has implemented Javascript. For example, on the concertwindow.com site, >>> There are several elements on the front page that rarely do anything when >>> clicked. I find that i have to try various methods on different sites, >>> including VO-shift-space, turn on mouse keys and do a num-pad-5, or use the >>> trackpad. Sometimes just VO-space works. The nice thing about mouse keys is >>> that they are actual mouse clicks and are not dependent on VO. Neither is >>> the trackpad when trackpad commander is turned off. >>> >>> HtH, >>> Teresa >>> On Jul 29, 2013, at 1:42 PM, Maria and Joe Chapman >>> wrote: >>> HI. try routing the mouse to the vo cursor with vo command f 5 and doing a vo shift space twice to double click the mouse. Maria and Joe Chapman bubbygirl1...@gmail.com On 30/07/2013, at 6:37 AM, Edward Green wrote: > Hi, > > Apologies if this seems like a silly question, but if Voiceover announces > that something is clickable on a web page, in OSX how do I click/activate > it? I've tried VO space as well as return, but haven't had any joy. > > Many thanks, > > Ed > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Safari and clickable elements
Hi Maria, Hopefully, when you turned TrackPad Commander off, you didn't move position when you use the rotor gesture. If you use Mouse Keys to click, there's an option you can check to ignore built-in trackpad when mouse keys are being used. Also, presumably you can also check position on the elements with keyboard and navigation shortcuts, and route your mouse cursor to your VoiceOver cursor with VO+Command+F5. Finally, there are shortcuts like VO+F5 to describe what is under the mouse that you could set up custom gestures for. HTH. Cheers, Esther On 29 Jul 2013, at 11:13, Maria and Joe Chapman wrote: > HI. when you turn track pad commander off how do you figure out where you > are? thanks > Blessings! > maria and Joe chapman > Email, iMessage & fb: bubbygirl1...@gmail.com > twitter: bubbygirl > > > > On 30/07/2013, at 7:06 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote: > >> Clickable elements can be very tricky, depending on how the web designer has >> implemented Javascript. For example, on the concertwindow.com site, There >> are several elements on the front page that rarely do anything when clicked. >> I find that i have to try various methods on different sites, including >> VO-shift-space, turn on mouse keys and do a num-pad-5, or use the trackpad. >> Sometimes just VO-space works. The nice thing about mouse keys is that they >> are actual mouse clicks and are not dependent on VO. Neither is the trackpad >> when trackpad commander is turned off. >> >> HtH, >> Teresa >> On Jul 29, 2013, at 1:42 PM, Maria and Joe Chapman >> wrote: >> >>> HI. try routing the mouse to the vo cursor with vo command f 5 and doing a >>> vo shift space twice to double click the mouse. >>> >>> >>> Maria and Joe Chapman >>> bubbygirl1...@gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> On 30/07/2013, at 6:37 AM, Edward Green wrote: >>> Hi, Apologies if this seems like a silly question, but if Voiceover announces that something is clickable on a web page, in OSX how do I click/activate it? I've tried VO space as well as return, but haven't had any joy. Many thanks, Ed -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Safari and clickable elements
Hi Ed, To add to what Teresa said, when you use VO-Space this is a VoiceOver-specifc software shortcut that means "perform the default action" for a given situation -- which could be to click on an element. VO-Shift-Space is another VoiceOver specific software shortcut for clicking your mouse cursor. Pressing the return key will return the default selections in dialog windows, and is hardware-based and does not rely on whether you are using VoiceOver, but it doesn't have an effect when you are supposed to click with a mouse or trackpad on a web page element. I usually distinguish between "hardware clicks" and "software clicks". Hardware clicks (with TrackPad, Mouse, or with the Mouse Keys accessibility solution) work everywhere. VoiceOver-specific software keyclicks may work if an application is accessible, but otherwise may not work. The other part of clicking on a web element such as a clickable element is making sure that your mouse cursor is actually on the element in question. (This is really annoying, because in some cases I have to change my cursor tracking preferences under VoiceOVer Utility to either "Mouse Cursor follows VoiceOver Cursor" or "Mouse Cursor moves VoiceOver Cursor" in order for things to work in environments of transitioning accessibility, such as in the iCloud or old Mobile Me web pages, or when iTunes or Automator was first being made accessible). However, in most instances you only need to make sure, after routing your mouse cursor to your VoiceOver cursor, that you issue a "hardware click". Since I don't use a mouse with my Mac laptops, I usually click on elements using Mouse Keys. If you are using a full size keyboard with NumPad Commander turned on, you can alternatively use the NumPad Commander shortcut to click (I think this is Control+"5" on the numeric keypad if you use the default settings, but you should check this). And if you use the TrackPad you should turn off TrackPad Commander and make sure that you press down hard enough to register a click. You should not have both Mouse Keys and NumPad Commander turned on at the same time, because they lead to conflicting key definitions. (On a laptop, this can make some of your keys completely unusable until you sort this.) Mouse Keys is an accessibility solution for people with motion disabilities that make it difficult for them to move a mouse precisely to a link or form control where they need to click or activate or enter text. VoiceOver users can use Mouse Keys in a couple of settings: 1) to click on elements like your clickable links where there are accessibility issues in the setup or application that prevent the VoiceOver shortcuts from working correctly and 2) to move the mouse cursor to screen locations independently of VoiceOver's navigation. Again, case 2 is an accessibility problem area. It may be that player controls can be activated by clicking on them, but the controls are not exposed to VoiceOver, so you can't move there independently. However, if you can move your mouse cursor to that position, and click, you can activate the controls. If you set up VoiceOver to announce what's under the mouse as you move over the controls navigating with Mouse Keys, you can find out where the controls are and then click them. Usually, you use external clues for the position of the controls so you're not exploring randomly. Once your know where they are relative to a screen element that VoiceOver can see, you can navigate there again knowing the offsets. Hope this sketchy explanation works. On extended keyboards, the Mouse Keys are the 9 number keys of the numeric keypad, with the central "5" key acting as the current position of the mouse that can be clicked. Pressing the number keys around that position moves the mouse one screen pixel in that direction (left, right, up, down, or diagonally). So if you press the "4" key to the left of the "5", you move the mouse 1 pixel to the left. Press the "6" key and move to the right. Press the "8" key and move up, etc. On a laptop the mouse keys are where the embedded numeric keypad used to be: the keys below the "7 8 9" keys on the right side of the keyboard, with "7 8 9" on the top row corresponding to "7 8 9" on the numeric keypad, "u i o" for "4 5 6", and "j k l" for "1 2 3". So the "i" key is in the central position of the "5" key on the numeric keypad, and you click by pressing this key when Mouse Keys are turned on. You can set up turning Mouse Keys on and off with 5 presses of the Option key. Go to the Accessibility under System Preferences with Option+F5, and in the Mouse & Trackpad pane check the box for "Press the Option key five times to turn Mouse Keys off and on", then close the window with Command+W. So, route your mouse cursor to your VoiceOver cursor, turn Mouse Keys on, click, and then turn Mouse keys off. This may be set up to click with Fn+"i" on a laptop under Mountain Lion,
Re: Safari and clickable elements
HI. when you turn track pad commander off how do you figure out where you are? thanks Blessings! maria and Joe chapman Email, iMessage & fb: bubbygirl1...@gmail.com twitter: bubbygirl On 30/07/2013, at 7:06 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote: > Clickable elements can be very tricky, depending on how the web designer has > implemented Javascript. For example, on the concertwindow.com site, There are > several elements on the front page that rarely do anything when clicked. I > find that i have to try various methods on different sites, including > VO-shift-space, turn on mouse keys and do a num-pad-5, or use the trackpad. > Sometimes just VO-space works. The nice thing about mouse keys is that they > are actual mouse clicks and are not dependent on VO. Neither is the trackpad > when trackpad commander is turned off. > > HtH, > Teresa > On Jul 29, 2013, at 1:42 PM, Maria and Joe Chapman > wrote: > >> HI. try routing the mouse to the vo cursor with vo command f 5 and doing a >> vo shift space twice to double click the mouse. >> >> >> Maria and Joe Chapman >> bubbygirl1...@gmail.com >> >> >> >> On 30/07/2013, at 6:37 AM, Edward Green wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Apologies if this seems like a silly question, but if Voiceover announces >>> that something is clickable on a web page, in OSX how do I click/activate >>> it? I've tried VO space as well as return, but haven't had any joy. >>> >>> Many thanks, >>> >>> Ed >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Safari and clickable elements
Clickable elements can be very tricky, depending on how the web designer has implemented Javascript. For example, on the concertwindow.com site, There are several elements on the front page that rarely do anything when clicked. I find that i have to try various methods on different sites, including VO-shift-space, turn on mouse keys and do a num-pad-5, or use the trackpad. Sometimes just VO-space works. The nice thing about mouse keys is that they are actual mouse clicks and are not dependent on VO. Neither is the trackpad when trackpad commander is turned off. HtH, Teresa On Jul 29, 2013, at 1:42 PM, Maria and Joe Chapman wrote: > HI. try routing the mouse to the vo cursor with vo command f 5 and doing a > vo shift space twice to double click the mouse. > > > Maria and Joe Chapman > bubbygirl1...@gmail.com > > > > On 30/07/2013, at 6:37 AM, Edward Green wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Apologies if this seems like a silly question, but if Voiceover announces >> that something is clickable on a web page, in OSX how do I click/activate >> it? I've tried VO space as well as return, but haven't had any joy. >> >> Many thanks, >> >> Ed >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Safari and clickable elements
HI. try routing the mouse to the vo cursor with vo command f 5 and doing a vo shift space twice to double click the mouse. Maria and Joe Chapman bubbygirl1...@gmail.com On 30/07/2013, at 6:37 AM, Edward Green wrote: > Hi, > > Apologies if this seems like a silly question, but if Voiceover announces > that something is clickable on a web page, in OSX how do I click/activate it? > I've tried VO space as well as return, but haven't had any joy. > > Many thanks, > > Ed > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Safari and clickable elements
Hi, Apologies if this seems like a silly question, but if Voiceover announces that something is clickable on a web page, in OSX how do I click/activate it? I've tried VO space as well as return, but haven't had any joy. Many thanks, Ed -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
