[Mailman-Users] Re: Create a list with multiple admins?

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 3/14/2024 8:56 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

On 3/14/24 06:15, Ralf Hildebrandt via Mailman-Users wrote:

Using mailman-2.6.x:


???


Is it possible to create a list (via CLI or the WUI) which has
multiple owner addresses?


The normal CLI and web UI for both MM 2.1 and MM 3 only allow creating a 
list with a single owner, but you can then add as many owners as you like.


For MM 2.1 you can do this in the web admin UI or via Mailman's 
bin/config_list or bin/withlist.


For Mailman 3 you can do it in Postorius or via the REST API (see 
).





For MM2, Mark gave me a patch to allow multiple owners;
only the first one in the string was checked.  But that
was not a problem for me.  Anyone who wants can contact me
off-list, and I will try to see if I have that patch in my
archives.  I no longer have access to that Mailman system.

--Barry Finkel
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[Mailman-Users] Re: Attach footer only once?

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 2/9/2024 10:57 AM, Carl Zwanzig wrote:

On 2/8/2024 3:24 PM, Tim Houseman wrote:

Is it possible for footers to only be attached once? I am hosting a legal
mailing list and their footer is quite long. We recently updated to
Mailman 3 and the list has become more active as a result but in that
activity the users have noticed that the footer just continually stacks
up at the bottom of subsequent emails.
Generally that's because once you reply, what appears as a footer 
becomes part of the  message body. There may be a "plug-in" that will 
find and cut them out.


Is there any way to avoid this scenario? 


Teach the users to edit their postings? (Top-posting is a major 
contributing factor in this, and while it's common in business IMHO it's 
still bad form for many other reasons.)


Do you -need- such a long footer? Can you simply include a link to the 
disclaimer elsewhere?


BTW, there's a different mailing list for mailman3, might want to ask 
about it there.


Later,

z!
--



The poster said that this the Mailman list is a legal list, and
legal firms have a habit of putting lots of "legalese" in the
footer of mail messages.  [Note that I nave removed the footer
from Carl's reply.]

--Barry Finkel

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[Mailman-Users] Re: Where's the installation directions / source, etc, please?

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 7/19/2023 1:46 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

Steven Jones writes:

  > I feel the same way, hence still running Mailman2 (on RHEL8). It is
  > simple and low CPU hit, however Red Hat stops it support in May
  > 2024.

That's fine with us.  Mailman 2 is pretty bulletproof and low-
maintenance from our point of view too.

  > Containers are really useful where done well but I tried 2 or
  > times to get mailman3 going on RHEL9 with podman and even docker
  > and failed.

Not sure what containers have to do with anything, to be honest.  In
any case, we don't really support containers AIUI.  Abhilash provides
multiple containers in a configuration that's convenient for him to
distribute, but the container environment isn't something we support,
nor can we.  A lot of people have difficulty configuring the network
with multiple containers.

I would recommend configuring everything (except perhaps the database)
in a single "host" (hardware, VM, or container), unless you're willing
to take on all that complexity.

  > I think Debian12 does mailman3? worth a go if so.  In my case I am
  > not allowed to run an unsupported OS and app.

Current Debian is pretty close to most recent release (maybe at this
point it is the most recent release).  But as you say, if you need a
supported OS, you're probably going to end up with a pretty old
version of Mailman.

Steve



As for the last paragraph - When I was a Mailman administrator some
years ago on an Ubuntu system, I was told that I had to install
Mailman from a package.  I looked at the Debian package, and I saw
patches that were undocumented, so I had no idea what they did.
And Debian, in one patch, deleted a library that is needed in some
situations.  And I wanted to get support from Mark and this list,
instead of from Debian.  So, I figured out how to create a package from
the Mailman source.  This was on an older version of Mailman, but I
assume that my technique should work with the latest Mailman 2 source.
Contact me personally for details.  It is not complicated.

--Barry Finkel

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[Mailman-Users] Re: Barrage of bounce notifications

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 5/24/2023 12:29 PM, Krone, Elizabeth C via Mailman-Users wrote:

Good afternoon all,

I manage a few listservs (maintaining members and tending pending posts) and today I have 
received almost 80 separate "Uncaught bounce notification" emails for one of 
the lists. There are rarely any for this list and I would like to know if there is 
something I can do to stop the spam. I have received 5 more while typing this email. I am 
not a tech person but any suggestions are welcome.

Thank you!

Elizabeth


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Member address: bsfin...@att.net



Mailman is NOT listserv.  Listserv is a different mailing list
management software from Lsoft.

--Barry Finkel
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[Mailman-Users] Re: Weird spate of AOL and Yahoo 'undeliverable' bounces

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 3/16/2023 11:01 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

On 3/16/23 16:31, Johnson, Bruce E - (bjohnson) wrote:
We sent a message out to our alumni mailing list and got a whole bunch 
of bounces like this:


The attached message was received as a bounce, but either the bounce
format was not recognized, or no member addresses could be extracted
from it.  This mailing list has been configured to send all
unrecognized bounce messages to the list administrator(s).

For more information see:
https://xxx/mailman/admin/alumni/bounce


From: mailer-dae...@yahoo.com
Subject: Failure Notice
Date: March 16, 2023 at 1:57:17 PM MST
To: 
alumni-bounces@lxxx



I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver the following message.
This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.



Interesting. Coincidently, earlier today I received a more or less 
identical Failure Notice for a message to an address @aol.com. According 
to my mail log, the message was accepted by mx-aol.mail.gm0.yahoodns.net 
and then subsequently the Failure Notice from aol was returned.


However, I just now tried sending to the same aol.com address and this 
time mx-aol.mail.gm0.yahoodns.net rejected the message with 552 1 
Requested mail action aborted, mailbox not found (in reply to end of 
DATA command)





For a few months I have received rejections for @aol.com
addresses fro0m a non-Mailman list I manage:

-
I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver the following message.
This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.

Subject: 
To: xx...@aol.com
-

In many cases, when I resend the mail a few days later, I get no
rejection.  This error message gives NO information as to why the
was not delivered.

--Barry Finkel
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[Mailman-Users] Re: AT Blocking (was AOL list member not receiving list traffic)

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 9/10/2022 8:37 AM, Julian H. Stacey wrote:

No known instances of members reporting us as spam.


Un-realised reports are worse, where you only later discover your
domain name or an IP number has been falsely listed.

I searched for a tool to periodically run, to automatically scan
with a list of RBL providers, whether any RBL has silently listed
your domain names or numbers:
http://www.anti-abuse.org/multi-rbl-check/
https://mxtoolbox.com/blacklists.aspx
https://rspamd.com/doc/modules/rbl.html
Any recommendations ?

Opinion:
   Bad enough that some commercial companies profit by dumping their
   admin problems on the innocent far end.  Worse that the far end
   may be an unpaid organisation, so companies steal time from
   volunteer admins.  Worst are fake RBL lists, criminal libelling
   for profit http://berklix.org/~jhs/mail/sorbs/
   
   I have list members who admitted incompetence to unsubscribe

   majordomo, less with mailman.  Worse were the lazy who refused
   to learn, demanding to waste volunteer admin time for manual help.
   Procmail rules discarded their noise.  Worst were malicious faked
   reports to black listers.

Cheers,



I do not have the entire thread here, but I have had an experience with
at  My e-mail address is @att.net, and I login to the web a few times
a month - once to see my bill, and maybe two times to look at my spam
folder.  More than half of the time, the web site does not accept my
password, and I cannot use the "change password" link.  So I call
the 800 support number and get a new temporary password.  I am assuming
that one or more persons is/are trying to login to my account, and thus
my account is getting "frozen".  Last Saturday night it happened, and I
called support.  I was told that they could not give me a new password
over the phone; they would have to put a temporary password in the USPS
mail.  This is a new policy that started a few days before mu call.
The support person to whom I talked said that at was trying to
block IP addresses from where these login attempts are coming.  I have
no idea if this is related to the problem that started this thread.

--Barry Finkel
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[Mailman-Users] Re: {Spam?} in subject lines.

[Barry S. Finkel]

Yes.  Some subscriber to the list receives a message from
the list, and that recipient's Mail user Agent thinks that
the message might be spam, so that MUA adds "[Spam?]"
to the Subject" line.  If that recipient then replies to the
list, that new Subject: line will appear in his/her reply.
Mailman has no method for changing the Subject: line.
A subsequent recipient who replies to the list has the option
of changing the Subject: line to remove this addition.

--Barry Finkel



On 12/8/2021 2:30 AM, Christian Buser via Mailman-Users wrote:

Good morning

This can be inserted by ANY server between the sender and the recipient. You 
have, afaik, no chance to find out which server this was. And I think it 
wouldn’t help anyway since you cannot take influence on the way which the 
messages travels.

Christian

Hello Adam Morris. On Wed, 8 Dec 2021 17:10:13 +1100, you wrote:

Hi all,
I realised I asked about this recently.
on lists I run I don't have this appearing in subject lines where
messages are sent from g mail and other domains.
For a list I don't run messages sent from g mail and other providers
have this in the subject line.
Wondering what settings need changing on the list this is happening with?
TIA.


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[Mailman-Users] Re: Is it my server or Yahoo's server(s)?

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 5/29/2021 11:15 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

Robert Heller writes:

  > Is anyone else seeing this sort of problem?

Yes, it's not just you and Mark.  There have been several threads on
this recently, naming one or more of Verizon, Yahoo!, or AOL as the
problematic destination, all of which are under one management now.
The combined entity is just not very good at this.

This

 [TSS04] Messages from  temporarily deferred due to
 unexpected volume or user complaints - 4.16.55.1

is just bad faith or symptomatic of extreme incompetence.  "Unexpected
volume" and "user complaints" are very different issues.

Steve



When I started in IT in 1966, computer memory was expensive and
limited, so messages had to be short.  But these days there is
NO EXCUSE for an error message to say, "Either A or B occurred".
Produce an error message with the appropriate error code; the
program that produces the message must know which of the two
cases occurred.  If the error message has options, then the
support personnel who have to respond to the message have to
do additional debugging to determine the exact cause of the error
message.

--Barry Finkel

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[Mailman-Users] Re: Migration to new server questions after having done research & testing ahead of time.

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 3/17/2021 2:12 PM, Bader, Robert (Bob) wrote:

Thanks for the info,

So in working with our server team that latest package for centos7 is 2.1.15, 
However we are  finding out that Rhel back ports for security fixes 
(https://access.redhat.com/security/updates/backporting/)
So I am running 2.1.15 with the security patch’s up to and in 2.1.34???  this 
is very interesting and confusion to determine what version you are on.  They 
reason we are doing via packages, is so we can have automated systems that keep 
systems security patched/updated. If were just always install the 
latest/greatest versions of software, then we could encounter other issues.  I 
don’t think we would hit that with mailman though.

Mailman 2.1.34 is the latest correct, is it still being developed? I thought it 
was done and no longer being developed and patched but looking for that stated 
somewhere.

Also I agree, centos7 is ancient BUT it still has support where centos6 
support/patching is ending. There was talk I believe about going to centos8 but 
there are compatibility issues so centos7 was chosen.
I don’t get to choose the server OS…. I just run the mailman.



When I was administering Mailman on Ubuntu, I decided that I had to use
the Mailman source.  I looked at the Ubuntu patches, and most were
undocumented.  And one removed a library that, on occasion, was
required.  And I had no confidence that the Ubuntu Mailman support
team would know as much as the people on this list, and, at the time,
Ubuntu was not giving their patches back to the Mailman development
team.  So I spent some time and built a package from the Mailman
source.  It took me some time, as I was not really familiar with
packages.  But once I got a package built, and it ran fine, I then had
the instructions for building a package from subsequent new source
distributions.

I do not know about Centos Mailman, but if Centos has taken 2.1.15 and
retrofitted subsequent security patches, then the 2.1.15 version would
not have all of the non-security (DMARC et alia) enhancements.

--Barry Finkel
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[Mailman-Users] Re: Weird no-posting no-moderation queue bouncing of posts

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 2/26/2021 11:21 AM, Thomas Gramstad wrote:
I have a strange, occasionally occurring phenomenon on one of my mailing 
lists (in Mailman 2.29) which I don't understand:


1. A subscribed address to the list tries to post a message to
 �� the list.

2. The attempted posting does not go through to the list, nor
 �� does it go to the moderation queue. Instead, I the list admin
 �� receives a message via the bounces-address with a copy of the
 �� attempted posting.

3. The bounce message looks like/similar to the bounce message
 �� that is generated when a bounce happens at one single
 �� individual subscriber's e-mail address. But in that case the
 �� list archive as well as other subscribers (including me)
 �� will get a copy of the posting. And that is not the case here.
 �� No copy to me, nothing in the archive.

So the only trace I can see of the posting is the weird bounce message 
containing a copy of the posting.


Why doesn't the attempted posting go to the moderator queue, if there is 
something about the subscriber or the message that prevents it from 
being distributed? (The list in question is unmoderated for subscribers.)


Below is a copy of one of the strange bounce postings.

Thomas Gramstad
tho...@gramstad.no

 ��� 


It appears, if I read the RFC 5322 mail headers correctly, that the
original mail was sent to LISTNAME-bounces instead of to LISTNAME:

From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Klev=E5s_Tora_Camilla?= 
To: Biblioteknorge 
Subject: Ledig stilling - Fredrikstad bibliotek - LittFri - et tilb ...

And, of course, this mail is not a bounce message that the bounce
processor can parse.

--Barry Finkel
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[Mailman-Users] Re: options page for this list?

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 9/1/2020 12:43 PM, Russell Clemings wrote:

A (probably stupid) question: How does one get to the list options page for
this (Mailman2) list?

The link in the digest footer (
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/) goes to
the Mailman3 list options.

I've been unable to find the options page for this list via other means.



I do not get the digest, so I cannot see the footer therein, but the
URL you posted does have

 mailman3
not
 mailman2 .

--Barry Finkel
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[Mailman-Users] Re: Upgrading from 2.1.12

[Barry S. Finkel]

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 11:40 PM Mark Sapiro  wrote:


On 7/22/20 12:54 AM, Daniel Krause via Mailman-Users wrote:

Good Day

We have a running 2.1.12 installation that was done long ago via an
external consultant.
It hasn't been changed in years, but I would like to upgrade this to at
least the latest 2.x version and potentially 3.x.
We would also like to migrate this from the current Centos VM to an

Ubuntu

EC2 instance



You have choices. Basically, there are Debian/Ubuntu packages for both
Mailman 2.1 and Mailman 3, but I don't necessarily recommend them. I
prefer installing Mailman 2.1 from source or, for Ubuntu, maybe from Jim
Popovitch's PPA
.

Mailman 3 is more complex, but there is installation info at
, 
and
<
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xIcSsoNFp2nHi7r4eQys00s9a0k2sHhu1V5PlantPTs/edit

.




Knowing very little about the structure etc of the data etc, what would

be

the best way to go about this?


If you have created a working MM 2.1 installation, see
 for info on moving lists.

For MM 3 there are tools, namely `mailman import21` and
`hyperkitty_import` for importing Mailman 2.1 lists and archives.


--
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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On 7/22/2020 10:57 PM, Daniel Krause via Mailman-Users wrote:
> Thanks Mark


As I have written before - When I was a Mailman administrator
I was told to install the Debian/Ubuntu package, but that package

 o contained undocumented patches

 o removed a library that was sometimes needed

 o appears to have "fixed" bugs without checking with the
   Mailman development team

So, I could not trust the Ubuntu package.  I spent a lot of time
determining how to create a Debian/Ubuntu package from the source.
I think that this was around 2.1.14, but I assume that my instructions
would work on on the latest 2.1.x source.  For details, contact me
offline.  The procedure is not complicated,

--Barry Finkel


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[Mailman-Users] Re: Mailman3 list migration possibly new domain

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 5/31/2020 6:55 AM, Andrew Hodgson wrote:

Mark Sapiro wrote:


On 5/30/20 1:41 PM, Andrew Hodgson wrote:

Hi,

I have a list to migrate to Mailman3 from Mailman2 but the domain of the list 
may change at some point in the future.  I was hoping to marry up the 2 events 
but its not looking likely at the moment.

>From what I have tested the Hyperkitty archives can be imported into any list 
so long as it exists.  My question relates to importing the Mailman configuration 
files.

If we take a Mailman configuration file for l...@domain1.com, if I import that 
into a new Mailman3 list l...@domain2.com will it cause a problem?



No problem. The Mailman 2.1 list doesn't have domain information anyway.


Thanks for this.  Once converted to Mailman3 can I move a list to another 
domain on the same Mailman instance or change the list name?  Ideally I would 
do the switch when moving to Mailman3 but I don't know when the domain 
migration will happen and really want to close off moving these lists.

Thanks.
Andrew.



I would never make two big changes at one time (for some definition of
"big").  When I was a systems programmer on an IBM mainframe, one day
we made two big changes at once.  And a strange thing happened.  It
took a number of persons adding traces to the code to determine what was
happening.  And I looked at both pieces of code, ran successful-branch
traces, and still was unable to determine exactly what had changed in
each piece of the operating system to cause the problem.  By that time,
of course, we had modified the software to get around the problem.

I would consider changing a domain AND migrating Mailman to be two
"big" changes that should not occur at the same time.

--Barry Finkel
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[Mailman-Users] Re: High CPU Usage After Mailman 2.1 Upgrade

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 5/2/2020 5:01 PM, Warren Toomey wrote:

On 5/1/20 3:01 PM, Warren Toomey wrote:

Hi all, I upgraded to Mailman 2.1.26 on my Ubuntu 18.04 server yesterday.
  
On Sat, May 02, 2020 at 10:12:55AM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:

There is an issue in 2.1.26 only that can cause this. See
. The fix for this is
.


Thanks Mark. I think I worked out what happened, but I'm not 100% sure.
Yes, I upgraded to 2.1.26 using Ubuntu's package management system.

However, two years ago I had applied the patch you mentioned to the previous
Mailman installation. I had also put the original python source files into
version control using RCS, just in case the patch needed to be backed out.

What I think has happened is that some sub-component of the upgrade process
(e.g. make) has checked out the old source files back out from the RCS
storage. Thus, I ended up with those two source files before the patch was
applied.

Anyway, I've restored the files to the current version and Mailman is
working normally again. I've also checked in the patched files so it won't
happen again.

Cheers, Warren
--



As I have written before, when I was a Mailman administrator
(before I retired) I looked at Ubuntu packages, and their Mailman had
many undocumented patches, as well as one patch that deleted a
library that sometimes was needed.  So I spent time creating my
own Ubuntu package for Mailman from the source.  I assume that my
method would work for the current release of Mailman.  For information
contact me off-list.  My procedure is not complex.

--Barry Finkel
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Re: [Mailman-Users] no bounce message with bad address

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 8/7/2019 1:20 PM, Loren Engrav via Mailman-Users wrote:

sometimes I load an invalid address (invalid name but valid domain)
like x...@whidbey.com; whidbey.com is ok but there is no xyz

with Mailman 2.1.26 at site5.com and 2.1.29 at mailmanlists.net
I do not receive a bounce message

is this a Mailman issue, host issue, domain issue?  or?

thanks


My first thought - are you sure that xyz is an invalid userid?
Try sending a test message from a personal e-mail account.

(Note that I have removed the previous list footer in my reply.)

--Barry Finkel

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Delivery errors and spam grading

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 3/18/2019 8:44 PM, Jim Dory wrote:

On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 4:39 AM Stephen J. Turnbull <
turnbull.stephen...@u.tsukuba.ac.jp> wrote:



   (You probably should
also disable the Digestable option in [Digest options]



I'm also receiving several bounces back for errors such as:
  "SMTP error from remote mail server after end of data:
 554 Failed: Malformed MIME field: X-Ham-Report:"

Or:
  "SMTP error from remote mail server after end of data:
 554 5.7.1 [P4] Message blocked due to spam content in the message."

Mostly associated with the digest. Curious about the statement  above from
Steve: is disabling the digest option something people do regularly to
prevent issues like this? and if so - if I were to disable it now, what
happens to those members who are using that option? I assume they just
start automatically receiving non-digest messages, but figured I should ask.

thanks, JD


The second "error" message is one over which you have little control.
The recipient's mail system detected content in the digest that it
considered spam.  I assume that if the messages in the digest had been
sent individually in non-digest mode, then the message that had the
objectionable content would have been similarly flagged.

As for the first "error" - A quick Google search showed that the

 X-Ham-Report:

header line is written by Cpanel when it detects that the message is
not spam.  I do not know if any other software writes this line.
I am not an expert in MIME, but I do not see how any "X-" header
line could be treated as a malformed MIME header.

If you have users who are using digest mode, then removing that option
will cause consternation with those users.  And I doubt that the digest
mode has anything to do with this error message.

--Barry Finkel

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman+Exim in Ubuntu

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 12/16/2018 3:05 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:

On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 at 20:13, Mark Sapiro  wrote:


On 12/15/18 1:35 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:


# User and group for Mailman, should match your --with-mail-gid
# switch to Mailman's configure script.  Value is normally "mailman"
MM_UID=list
MM_GID=list

Now, posts cannot be delivered because:
2018-12-15 00:00:58 1gXuEg-0006Hn-2J ** test...@lists.my.co.ke <
testing-boun...@lists.my.co.ke> R=mailman_router T=mailman_transport:

Child

process of mailman_transport transport returned 2 from command:
/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman



Status = 2 is a group mismatch error as you apparently discovered.



Yes, and got stumped as well.






After consulting Google, I got advised to run a test:

root@lists:/home/wash# /var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper post
Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail
wrapper script to be executed as group "daemon", but
the system's mail server executed the mail script as
group "root".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the
script as group "daemon", or re-run configure,
providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=root'



This test is irrelevant. It would be expected to produce a group
mismatch because you are running the wrapper as root:root and not as the
user:group that Exim runs it as.



Ah, that explains it. Every change I did to MM_UID and MM_GID was producing
that
error, leaving me wondering.



Also, even in Debian/Ubuntu, the wrapper is normally named
mailman/mail/mailman, not mailman/mail/wrapper, so I'm not sure what's


going on here.




I saw the wrapper is a symlink so I did not find it odd to just use the
name.

root@lists:/home/wash# cd /var/lib/mailman/mail/
root@lists:/var/lib/mailman/mail# ls -al
total 24
drwxrwsr-x 2 root list  4096 Dec 15 13:51 .
drwxr-xr-x 7 root list  4096 Dec 15 13:44 ..
-rwxr-sr-x 1 root list 14672 Nov 30 19:01 mailman
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 7 Nov 30 19:01 wrapper -> mailman
root@lists:/var/lib/mailman/mail#





As far as how to fix it, this is really a Debian/Ubuntu question. See
.


That said, there are a couple of things going on here:

It appears from your above test that the expected group is 'daemon'.
This is strange as in Debian/Ubuntu , it is normally 'list' which is why
in your Exim config you have MM_GID=list. You could try MM_GID=daemon to
fix this.

The Debian/Ubuntu package has patches to avoid the group mismatch test
if the real gid of the caller is < 100 or = 65534.

My recomendation, especially if you want help from this list is to junk
the Ubuntu package and install from source.



Actually, you've just woken me up - install from source :-)
I just don't seem to get things right with packages I am not sure how to
manipulate because
I am not too familiar with the OS. I just did not think about installing
from source, because I
was relying on all the supposedly working HOWTOs online, so I wanted to
leave the ecosystem
as natural as possible.





When I was managing a Mailman installation on Ubuntu, I looked at the
Debian/Ubuntu package, and it had a number of undocumented patches.
I did not trust these, and I discovered that one patch deletes a file
that is sometimes needed.  So, I took the Mailman source and built
my own package.  I included a few patches from Mark that I needed,
and I kept the D/U patches that put the files in the proper directories.
The rest of the patches I discarded.  This was for, IIRC, Mailman 2.14.
I assume that what I did would work for the current Mailman 2.x release.
Those who want details can contact me off-list.

--Barry Finkel
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Distributed mass subscribe attack?

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 8/8/2017 12:22 PM, David Gibbs wrote:

Folks:

Anyone else noticing a distributed mass subscribe attack going on their 
lists?


I've noticed a massive number of attempts a small subset of email 
addresses, with modifiers (address+modif...@example.com), going on.


It appears the address is valid ... so it appears to be some kind of hit 
job to flood someone's inbox.


Luckily the address's are trivial to block using 'ban_list'.

The hosts they are using appear to be from all over the place, although 
they do seem to be favoring hosts serviced by virtua.com.br.


david





I would report this to  mail-ab...@cert.br .

--Barry Finkel
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Non-Delivery of Mail

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 1/28/2017 12:26 PM, David Andrews wrote:

I run a cPanel system that, among other things, supports about 300
Mailman lists. We have about 20,000 users. I am getting lots of bounced
messages from roadrunner.com and various XXX.rr.com domains. It looks
like they may be blocking my domain nfbnet.org although I am not sure
how you tell.

When I look at a mail delivery report via cPanel, I see messages that
say 421 too many concurrent connections, connection refused.  What can I
change to fix this problem!

Thanks!


I have had the same problem sending to some XX.rr.com addresses,
buy not from a Mailman system.  I am sending from a system that
hosts many mailing lists; that system has 661 outbound IP addresses.
Obviously, I have no control when other organizations send e-mail,
and I have no control over what outbound address is used for the
SMTP connection.  And I do not know what the connection limits
are set by RoadRunner.  As Mark replied, I believe that this should
be a retryable error, but RR does not think so.  RR expects the sender
to re-send the mail at a later time.  I have had no problems sending
later (I have to re-compose the mail message); but again I do not know
if the re-send happens to be sent over a "good" (in RR terms) IP address
to the RR inbound mail servers.

--Barry Finkel

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Multiple list owners at creation

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 1/11/2017 6:56 AM, Julian Kippels wrote:

Hi,

is it possible to create a new list with more than one owner? Or do I
have to create the list with one owner and add the others later?

I'm thinking about doing something like:
newlist testlist owner1@domain owner2@domain supersecretpassphrase

Thanks
Julian



Here is a patch that I got from Mark Sapiro many years ago;
I assume that it is in the list archives.  Note that I cannot
ensure that this cut-and-paste will survive line wrap.
This is a piece of the "script" output when I last built a
Mailman package for Debian/Ubuntu.  Also note that any
owner addresses after the first are not checked for syntax.

-
vm20# cat ~b19141/newlist.owners.patch.13
--- newlist 2009-09-14 11:47:56.046875000 -0700
+++ newlistx2009-10-02 12:51:16.671875000 -0700
@@ -47,6 +47,8 @@
 You can specify as many of the arguments as you want on the command line
 you will be prompted for the missing ones.

+Note that listadmin-addr can be a comma separated list of addresses.
+
 Every Mailman list has two parameters which define the default host name
 outgoing email, and the default URL for all web interfaces.  When you
 configured Mailman, certain defaults were calculated, but if you are run
@@ -173,7 +175,9 @@
 owner_mail = args[1]
 else:
 owner_mail = raw_input(
-_('Enter the email of the person running the list: '))
+_('Enter the email(s) of the person running the list: '))
+owner_emails = owner_mail.split(',')
+owner_mail = owner_emails[0]

 if len(args) > 2:
 listpasswd = args[2]
@@ -208,6 +212,9 @@
 except Errors.MMListAlreadyExistsError:
 usage(1, _('List already exists: %(listname)s'))

+# assign the owners
+mlist.owner = owner_emails
+
 # Assign domain-specific attributes
 mlist.host_name = host_name
 mlist.web_page_url = web_page_url
@@ -246,7 +253,7 @@
 i18n.set_language(mlist.preferred_language)
 try:
 msg = Message.UserNotification(
-owner_mail, siteowner,
+owner_emails, siteowner,
 _('Your new mailing list: %(listname)s'),
 text, mlist.preferred_language)
 msg.send(mlist)
vm20# patch -p0 < ~b19141/newlist.owners.patch.13
patching file newlist
vm20# diff newlist newlist.original
50,51d49
< Note that listadmin-addr can be a comma separated list of addresses.
<
178,180c176
< _('Enter the email(s) of the person running the list: '))
< owner_emails = owner_mail.split(',')
< owner_mail = owner_emails[0]
---
> _('Enter the email of the person running the list: '))
215,217d210
< # assign the owners
< mlist.owner = owner_emails
<
256c249
< owner_emails, siteowner,
---
> owner_mail, siteowner,
vm20# pwd

-

--Barry Finkel
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Re: [Mailman-Users] bin/genaliases not generating aliases?

[Barry S. Finkel]

On Dec 15, 2016, at 8:31 PM, Mark Sapiro  wrote:

On 12/15/2016 08:26 PM, Caesar Samsi wrote:

The mm_cfg.py is in /etc/mailman



Which is the one from the Debian/Ubuntu package, not the one that your
latest install is using.

The one you need to put your settings in is
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py.

--
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan



On 12/15/2016 10:33 PM, Caesar Samsi wrote:
> Yeah, in the ubuntu package the file was in /etc/mailman so I thought 
installing from scratch it would be there too!

>
> I will try in your location now.



As I have written before, one can easily create a Debian/Ubuntu package
for Mailman 2.x based on the SourceForge source.  Contact me for
details.  This will install Mailman in the directories that
Debian/Ubuntu uses, and I assume that installing the package will
overwrite any existing Debian/Ubuntu installation.

--Barry Finkel
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and local user collisions

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 8/12/2016 4:08 PM, Ezsra McDonald wrote:

I discovered recently that there is a local user and a mailman list with
the same user@. The mail goes to the list and not the user. What is the
trick to make Postfix handle these separately?

Lets say the domain is somewhere.com and the list is list.somewhere.com.

OS: Redhat Enterprise 6.x
Mailman Version: 2.1.12

I read about virtual domains but when I attempt to use them they do not
like the mailman aliases file. We don't want to generate files every time a
new list is added, updated or removed.

Does anyone have a sample config for this setup?

-Ezsra



If I understand the question properly, you have a Mailman list
and a local user with the same name on the same machine.
There is one alias file (or concatenation of alias files)
that Postfix uses, and Postfix will use the first entry
that it finds in the alias concatenations. Or Postfix
will give an error or warning message about the duplicate entry.
There is no way for Postfix to know whether to deliver the mail to the
Mailman list or to the local user.

In short, I believe that what you want is not possible.
Even with virtual domains, you still have the name conflct.

--Barry Finkel

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Message footers

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 4/17/2016 6:39 AM, Christian F Buser via Mailman-Users wrote:

Hi all

The standard message footers for my lists are

___
%(real_name)s mailing list
%(real_name)s@%(host_name)s
%(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s

I would like to add some information here how to get help and how to 
unsubscribe.

What would the syntax be to get the following result (I don't like to 
experiment on the live lists):

Unsubscribe: 
Get Help: 

would  for the help 
line worrk? Or rather not?

Thank you, Christian



Why not create a test list and experiment?  Or, I assume, you could
experiment with the already-created 9but seldom used) Mailman list.

--Barry Finkel


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Command output: post script, list not found: XXXXX

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 4/15/2016 5:40 PM, Steve Wehr wrote:

First of all I apologize of there is already ananswer to this question. I
have been googling and reading your doc for days in hopes of finding an
answer.



I was running mailman successfully for years on my server. Then this week I
cut over to a new server and hired someone to install the latest version of
mailman and migrate all my existing lists. This mostly works.



I can run /usr/lib/mailman/bin/list_lists and all my lists are displayed. I
can use the mailman admin page to list all my lists and I can edit each of
them from there.



But when I try to send email to any list, my email is sent back to me with
the following message:



: Command died with status 1:

 "/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test". Command output: post script,

 list not found: test



I have run:

root: /usr/lib/mailman/bin>sudo -u mail /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post
test ls -ld test

drwxrwsr-x 2 apache mailman 4096 Apr 15 17:35 test

root: /var/lib/mailman/lists>ls -l test

total 20

-rw-rw 1 apache mailman 5061 Apr 15 17:35 config.pck

-rw-rw 1 apache mailman 5060 Apr 15 17:34 config.pck.last

-rw-rw-r-- 1 root   mailman   22 Mar 29 13:50 request.pck



Can you help me find out what is wrong?

Thanks.

_

Steve Wehr

Tunedin Web Design 

845-246-9643



The first thing that comes to mind is the aliases file.
What alias file is used by Postfix?  Does that file have all
of the Mailman aliases for each list?

--Barry Finkel

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Encoding problem with 2.15 to 2.18 upgrade with Finnish

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 1/7/2016 2:40 PM, Eva Isaksson wrote:

2016-01-07 22:12 GMT+02:00 Mark Sapiro :
On 01/07/2016 11:44 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:


I think simply re-entering the description and saving changes will fix
this, but you should probably go through the entire web admin UI and do
the same for any other non-ascii strings.


Am I right in thinking that this option would mean choosing the debian utf-8
alternative? We have some 750 lists, so checking all of them would have to
happen outside the web admin UI, i.e. from command line.


You could install Mailman from source. See the FAQ at
 for info.


Does this allow for keeping all the settings and passwords from the old
package
installation intact? The number of lists is so big that I want to be on the
safe
side.

- Eva Isaksson



I have posted this before, and I will post it again.  When I was an
administrator for a Mailman system running on Ubuntu, I decided
that the Debian package had problems.  Besides having patches that
were undocumented, there was one patch that reomoved a library that
sometimes was needed.  So I figured out how to create a Mailman
package from the SourceForge source.  The last Mailman package
I built was 2.1.15; I assume that the same process would work
for the latest Mailman.  What I did is available to anyone who
wants it; send me a private e-mail to get the output from
"script" of the session when I built the last package.  The only
Debian patch I kept was one that placed libraries in the proper
directories for Debian/Ubuntu.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] mails send from sendmail with commandline to mailman become 'Message has implicit destination'

[Barry S. Finkel]

Mack Sapiro wrote in response to MichaelLeung
:

What output do the following commands produce:

ls -l `which mail`

ls -l `which sendmail`

ls -l `which mailx`


Michael, you have not given us the output of those commands
(unless I missed something in the dialog between you and Mark).
And also, what on what type of Unix box are you issuing the
"mail" command?

--Barry Finkel

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Re: [Mailman-Users] mails send from sendmail with commandline to mailman become 'Message has implicit destination'

[Barry S. Finkel]

>> On 12/26/2015 03:10 PM, MichaelLeung wrote:
>>> hi all
>>>
>>> anyone had face this problem before ?
>>>
>>> if i send the mail from a client end , like thunder, mailman can
>>> read it correctly .



On 12/26/2015 08:11 PM, MichaelLeung wrote:

hi

i locate this problem

maillman cannot read subject when i use command like mail -s 'subject'
x...@abc.com,
but if i dont  speacify the subject at the first, like mail
x...@abc.com, when i subject key prompt , then enter the subject , this
mail can be read by mailman correctly .

does any know what wrong?




On 12/26/2015 6:55 AM, MichaelLeung wrote:
> sorry , i think i m wrong,
>
> subject is not the root case,
>
> i actually user -r paramater to speacify the sender as the mailman's
> name , then mailman failed to ready mail's subject.
>
> any one can fix this ?



The message "implicit destination" is issued if the list name to which
the mail is addressed does not appear in an RFC5322 "From:" or "To:"
line.  This implies that the list name was in a "Bcc:" line.  If you
want to send to a list via "Bcc:", you have to change the list
configuration to allow implicit destination.  The mailman-supplied
default is to not allow the list name in a "Bcc:"

--Barry Finkel

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Re: [Mailman-Users] List posts sent to AOL list subscribers bounce as undeliverable (v. 2.1.20)

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 12/4/2015 5:21 AM, Woody Mon via Mailman-Users wrote:

Hello,

I'm assisting a small non-profit organization with  their informational news 
listserv which is running on Mailman version 2.1.20.

The issue is that list posts sent to AOL subscriber addresses are now bouncing as 
undeliverable with the bounce code: "521 5.2.1 :  AOL will not accept delivery of 
this message."

This issue just began several days ago and 200+ subscribers with AOL email 
addresses are now identified as bouncing in Mailman admin.

I understand last year AOL (and Yahoo)  made changes to their email systems 
which might contribute to this issue. However it didn't seem to impact our list 
subscribers with AOL email addresses until just now.

The bounce email message for each subscriber appears as:


A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:

 emailaccounth...@aol.com
   host mailin-03.mx.aol.com [64.12.91.196]
   SMTP error from remote mail server after end of data:
   521 5.2.1 :  AOL will not accept delivery of this message.


Unfortunately the list server runs on a host machine maintained by another 
non-profit, which in turn contacts with a small local hosting provider. And we 
don't have access to changing any list server configuration parameters, beyond 
what is available in the list owner admin.

And unfortunately the hosting provider will not make any changes to the server 
for specific lists. We are just grateful the free listserv service and that 
they keep the version of Mailman up-to-date.

And we are unable to setup a white list or feedback loop (FBL) with AOL as we 
don't have access to the postmaster or abuse email accounts for the list server 
domain.

We have sent an email to http://postmaster.info.aol.com/SupportRequest.php
to request unblocking out list email address and/or the list server IP (assuming one or 
the other is actually "blocked", we have no idea at this point), but have yet 
to receive a response from AOL.

The error codes page at https://postmaster.info.aol.com/error-codes
says this about the bounce error noted above:

AOL will not accept delivery of this message

This is a permanent bounce due to:

* RFC2822 From domain does not match the rDNS of sending server.
* RFC 2822 FROM address does not have an A record and is not a valid 
domain.
* IP has a poor reputation and mail is sent to multiple recipients.
* There are multiple From address in the mail headers and the IP 
reputation is poor.


Before I dive into the details above and the info within the document at 
https://postmaster.info.aol.com/tech-requirements, I'm hoping to hear some 
potential simple solutions that may be applied to our particular solution.

I can post the content of the list email a headers, but I wish to avoid posting 
the info in a public forum,

Thank you for any advice.
--



I believe that the AOL rejection

 521 5.2.1 :  AOL will not accept delivery of this message.

signifies that there is something in the message that AOL thinks
is objectionable.  What the objectionable content might be is
anyone's guess.

P. S.
> their informational news listserv which is running on Mailman version 
2.1.20.


Listserv (R) is a registered trademark of Lsoft, and that term does
NOT pertain to Mailman.  Both products are mailing list management
software, but only Listserv (R) is listserv.

--Barry Finkel

--Barry Finkel

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Assistance with altering reply-to behaviours and DMARC

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 8/28/2015 3:03 AM, Will Yardley wrote:

On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 01:37:18PM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

Mark writes:
   First, apologies if this has been discussed before.  I run a number
   of mailman lists on a Centos 6 platform and mailman 2.1.12-25. This
   version was updated in July as follows:
   https://rhn.redhat.com/errata/RHSA-2015-1417.html and included
   fixes for a number of DMARC issues.  Including ... With this
   update, domains with a reject DMARC policy are recognized
   correctly..

Stock Mailman 2.1.12 doesn't do any DMARC detection.  This is quite
bizarre that they would backport such a feature rather than update to
2.1.18-1 or later.  Mailman 2.1 is hardly an unstable package.


That's the way most stable Linux distributions do it. I think it has a
lot to do with keeping the complex web of interdependencies in check,
but probably also has to do with keeping features predictable. Even with
security issues, generally, they go to quite a bit of work to backport
things, rather than change versions.

Not sure about 6, but the specific way they backported the changes for
the DMARC patch on EL5 had to do partially with dependencies... either
the fact that the normal version didn't depend on dnspython and this one
did, or the version of dnspython required wasn't available in EL5 (looks
like they actually ended up vendoring dnspython inside the Mailman
package).

Folks who want more up to date versions tend to either jump major
releases more often, use third party repos, rebuild RPMs from upstream,
or just build from source. We use the vendor provided Mailman package,
and for the most part, it works for us, though in cases like this, it is
problematic.

w


It appears to me that if someone were to back-port the DMARC changes
from 2.1.18 back to 2.1.12, then there is a possibility that there
will be problems with the back-port due to code changes between
.12 and .18.  When I looked at the Ubuntu changes, I saw many
changes that were not documented, and I had no idea what they did.
Part of the problem in Ubuntu (or any other packager) who wants
to create a package for a newer Mailman is that all of these
patches, whether created to fix bugs or add features, have to be
re-fitted into the code.  And that takes time.  I am not sure
which process is more prone to introduce errors - re-fitting
patches into a newer Mailman or trying to re-fit DMARC patches
into on older Mailman.

This is why I determined, when I was running a Mailman installation
on Ubuntu, that I would create my own package from the SourceForge
source instead of installing the Ubuntu Mailman package.  It took
me a while to figure out how to do it, but once I did it, I had
the instructions to re-do it for subsequent SF Mailman releases.

I wanted to know exactly what source I was running, so I could get
assistance from the authors via this list.

--Barry Finkel
--Barry Finkel

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Re: [Mailman-Users] merging 2 mailing lists

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 7/6/2015 8:26 AM, Laura Creighton wrote:

2 somebodies I know want to merge their mailing lists.  They are
both lists for recipes for people who have impaired kidney function.
A complication is that these lists are hosted on different machines,
with completely different names, etc.  But picking a third name
and setting things up so that posters to both old names get their
mail sent to the third place, while receiving a message informing
them to use the new address seems to work in testing.

The problem is with the archives.  They want to change the footers
in each of the old list messages to say 'this was posted to old_list,
use new_list instead if you want to post a new message' and point to
the new archives.  I can write a script to do that.

But then, having modified the footers they want to store the 2 past
archives as 1 archive, so that people who search the thing will get
hits wherever the old article was posted.  I don't see any out-of-the-box
solutions, am I missing something?

Laura



I am not an expert in Mailman archives, and I do not have a machine
on which to test.  I think that if you take the two mbox archive
files (probably after you have run your footer modification scripts)
and combine them into one file - then you can build the archives of
the new list from this combined file.  I believe (but I may be wrong)
that you do not have to sort the messages in the combined file by date.

What I would do as a test is take the two mbox files, maybe extract
a handful of messages from each (or take the entire files), combine
them, and make an archive for a new test list.

If I remember correctly,

 bin/arch --wipe ...

I do not remember the other parameters, but a search of this list's
archives will find the command.

--Barry Finkel
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Re: [Mailman-Users] mail doesn't return

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 5/10/2015 1:28 AM, Camelia Botez wrote:

I have a mailing list with a couple of wrong e-mail addresses .
When I send a message to this mailing list I see in /var/log/maillog

 of the mailman server that those addresses get user unknown and
 the messages is not sent , but I don't get back an  error mail
 with user unknown

Check the bounce values for the list.  IIRC, the default value is 5,
so each bounce (max one per day) is counted against a subscriber.
All bounces are processed by the Mailman bounce process, and only
when a subscriber achieves a bounce score at or above the set
maximum is the rejection mail sent to the list owner.

When I ran a Mailman server, I checked the bounce scores on all lists
daily so that I would be able to see which subscribers had bounces,
as many of our lists were re-built automatically from external sources.
I used scripts developed by Mark Sapiro, and he referenced them in a
posting earlier today or yesterday.

--Barry Finkel

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Looking for help

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 4/21/2015 8:35 AM, Dr. Mikeal Hughes wrote:

I have tried to install Mailman on my Ubuntu 14.04 Server. It also has a 
Website virtually hosted on the server as well. I can’t get it to go and am 
getting some error messages. There are a lot of user install guides on the 
internet for this and apparently I tried using the wrong one. Could someone 
contact me off list that might be willing to help me get this up and running?




Mikeal R. Hughes, D.Min., Th.D., Ph.D.
Minister - Manteno church of Christ
www.mikealrhughes.com   
m...@mikealrhughes.com


People on this list might be able to assist you if you posted the
error messages that you have received.

--Barry Finkel
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Issue with postfix-to-mailman.py (Command died with status 127)

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 4/19/2015 4:30 AM, Matthieu Berjon wrote:

Hello to all,

I met an issue in trying to set up Mailman. Here is the error message I
get from postfix:

 Command died with status 127:
 /usr/local/mailman/postfix-to-mailman.py. Command
 output: env: python: No such file or directory


I have a working postfix server running (at least, that's what I believe
as emails for user account works). When I sent a message a message to
the list, postfix seems to manage correctly the email and doesn't
complain about it.

My guess is that I probably missed something obvious or didn't
understand something in the configuration.

What I'm using:

- FreeBSD 10.1-RELEASE-p6
- Postfix 2.11.4,1
- Mailman 2.1.20

Here some outputs that maybe would help.

postconf -n

alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/aliases,
hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases
command_directory = /usr/local/sbin
config_directory = /usr/local/etc/postfix
daemon_directory = /usr/local/libexec/postfix
data_directory = /var/db/postfix
debug_peer_level = 2
debugger_command = PATH=/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin ddd
$daemon_directory/$process_name $process_id  sleep 5
home_mailbox = Maildir/
html_directory = /usr/local/share/doc/postfix
inet_protocols = ipv4
mail_owner = postfix
mailman_destination_recipient_limit = 1
mailq_path = /usr/local/bin/mailq
manpage_directory = /usr/local/man
mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost, $mydomain
mydomain = earswideopen.net
myhostname = smtp.earswideopen.net
mynetworks_style = host
myorigin = $mydomain
newaliases_path = /usr/local/bin/newaliases
queue_directory = /var/spool/postfix
readme_directory = /usr/local/share/doc/postfix
recipient_delimiter = +
relay_domains = lists.earswideopen.net
sample_directory = /usr/local/etc/postfix
sendmail_path = /usr/local/sbin/sendmail
setgid_group = maildrop
smtpd_banner = $myhostname ESMTP $mail_name
soft_bounce = no
transport_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/transport
unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550

/etc/postfix/master.cf

smtp  inet  n   -   n   -   -   smtpd
mailman   unix  -   n   n   -   -   pipe
   flags=FR user=mailman:mailman
argv=/usr/local/mailman/postfix-to-mailman.py
   ${nexthop} ${user}

/usr/local/mailman/postfix-to-mailman.py

# Configuration variables - Change these for your site if necessary.
MailmanHome = /usr/local/mailman; # Mailman home directory.
MailmanOwner = postmas...@earswideopen.net; # Postmaster and abuse
mail recipient.

By the way, this file belongs to mailman:mailman


I'm quite lost on this error and didn't find any information about this
kind of issue lately. If someone has some ideas, that would be much
appreciated. If I forgot to mention something or if you need any more
clarification, please ask, I will be more than happy to help.

Have a great Sunday,

--
Matt


Look at


http://wiki.list.org/DOC/How%20do%20I%20configure%20postfix_to_mailman.py%3F

That postfix_to_mailman module is not part of the SourceForge
Mailman; it has been added by Debian (and Ubuntu) as part of their
Mailman package.  The basic response that you will get from subscribers
to this list is that this module should not be used.  I have not looked
at the module code, so I have no idea what problem it was written to
solve.

As a related side issue - When I was managing a Mailman system on
an Ubuntu server, I researched the patches in the Ubuntu package.
Many were not documented, and I could find nothing about the problem(s)
they were written to solve.  And one patch removes a library that is
sometimes needed.   I decided at that time that it was better for me to
create my own Ubuntu package from the SourceForge source and install
that.  If I had a problem, I could post it on this list and get
expert advice.

--Barry Finkel



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Re: [Mailman-Users] Diagnosing command failures

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 1/22/2015 10:10 AM, Gary Merrill wrote:
 Again, thanks to all of you for your responses.  There are a number 
of thorny issues in attempting to fix (or at least address) what is 
wrong here.  The original conceptual model of something like Mailman 
isn't quite right for the situation being faced today in the types of 
capabilities and support offered to the general public.  This doesn't 
mean that that model was wrong, but that's it's not a thoroughly good 
fit for a certain service/support/marketing model employed by others. 
Making things fit better is a daunting task because of the numbers and 
types of players involved, and their varied goals and constraints.  Hey, 
before I retired, I spent about 13 years developing knowledge 
representations and software (server and user) for multiple disparate 
medical coding schemes for the purposes of drug discovery and adverse 
event detection.  I know the kinds of problems you guys are facing -- 
although you should be somewhat grateful that you aren't dealing with 
the FDA, insurance
companies, gigantic healthcare organizations, the CDC, and 
multiple pharma companies. :-)Don't hold your breath is a 
perfectly apt comment.


 The hosting services companies may want to provide certain services 
(or at least their developers and support staffs may).  They (meaning 
the their developers and support organization) may in fact care, but 
they may be severely constrained in what they can do within the economic 
model of the company and how effectively they can fight their marketing 
organization.  The issues here often aren't technical, but economic and 
political (in the sense of company politics).  Sometimes the good guys 
win, and a lot of times they don't.  And to some degree you get what you 
pay for (if you're lucky and deal with a reputable provider).  I'm quite 
happy with the service and support that Webhostingpad has provided me (I 
have two sites hosted by them).


 Prior to running the Mailman list for this community band, I had -- 
for a year -- been running a phpBB bulletin board.  Of course this is 
quite different from Mailman, is more feature-rich, employs a completely 
different conceptual model and architecture, and required that I install 
and configure it myself.  That gave me a lot more control over it than I 
have over my Mailman lists that are available through Cpanel.  It was a 
noble experiment that failed.  While the majority of the band really 
liked the idea and functionality of forums, there was a contingent that 
was highly resistant to using that approach.  (These were not always, or 
even generally, the elder members, but somewhat oddly tend to be in the 
45-55-ish age group.)  They didn't like having to go to the site ... 
they didn't like having to employ a password to access it ... but they 
wanted to be sure that everything was secure and not visible to 
outsiders ... the primary people who in fact needed to make postings to 
the for
   um on a regular basis couldn't remember to do so, etc. 
Basically, it was something that a contingent of the organization wasn't 
familiar with and just didn't want to learn about -- whatever the 
advantages were.  It gave me a lot of flexibility and control because 
virtually everything concerning its administration was in my own 
space.  As in the case with Mailman, I avoided any patches, custom 
code, or addition of anything other than the base modules and some 
images.  I had to abandon it because as a communication mechanism, it 
just wasn't working for this group of people.  No amount of education or 
support would solve the problem.


 I then recalled the experience I'd had with the listservs used by the 
National Library of Medicine and thought:  That should do the trick for 
this group.  Their model of online communication is email.  It's simple. 
 Of course, 80% of my organization can't distinguish between a 
privately held and maintained mailing list of contacts and a mailing 
list managed by something like Mailman -- but it's working out nicely 
and they're learning the few important fundamentals over time.  By far, 
most of them have never changed their default password (everyone 
originally was batch-subscribed) or even used their password or felt the 
need to.  Many of them have probably forgotten that they even have a 
password.


From my point of view, what would be ideal in managing a Mailman list 
would be to have all the relevant data for the list in my space, and 
accessible to me so that on the rare occasions when things don't work I 
could at least look for what is causing the problem.  Some configurable 
level of logging (again with the information kept in my space) would 
be very helpful so that this could be turned on and off as necessary. 
Perhaps administrator-configurable/editable error messages would be nice 
as well -- and ones not requiring modifying code or central files 
governing the entire Mailman instance.


 That is, some enhanced degree of local 

Re: [Mailman-Users] Any info on number of Mailman installations?

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 12/6/2014 3:15 PM, Andrew Stuart wrote:

Just wondering if anyone has any idea how many installations there are of 
Mailman

 around the world?


thanks



How do you count?  Where I used to work, there were four groups,
each with their own Mailman server.  Does that count as one organization
or four?

--Barry Finkel

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Advantages

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 12/2/2014 6:05 PM, r...@rexgoode.com wrote:

I have been a long-time user of mailman and have been on many mailing
lists.

I am also part of a professional association of social workers that
operate in my area. They have been using a list of addresses in a Cc
field to manage their mailing list. I can't imagine anything more
fraught with problems than that, but I can't convince these people to
let me host a mailman mailing list for them.

I can think of a lot of advantages myself, but I'm wondering if anyone
has seen a good list somewhere. I'm a strange combination of software
engineer and social worker, so I understand both worlds. My social
worker colleagues tend to think of something like a mailing list as
complicating things rather than simplifying them.

I'm not necessarily asking for a discussion here, but I'd like some
feedback on this.

Viva Mailman!

Rex Goode


Using a Cc: list has problems:

1) Someone might omit one or more addresses, and then some of the
   intended recipients will not get the e-mail.  And it may be a
   different group, depending upon which sender omits which addresses.

2) An e-mail with too many recipient addresses might be classified as
   spam by a recipient's ISP, and using a Bcc: list avoids this
   problem but then no one knows the entire recipient list for replying.

These are the first two that come to mind, and I think that with these
two, you do not need any more reasons to avoid using a Mailman list.

And Mailman provides an archive of the postings and can control
who can post to the list.

--Barry Finkel

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive merge and search

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 11/9/2014 8:37 PM, Hal wrote:

Thanks. Unfortunately cleanarch'ing didn't solve my issue.
I did some more research and found out that the MBOX format isn't
standardized as there are 4 different variations around
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jonathan.deboynepollard/FGA/mail-mbox-formats.html).
Confusing indeed. What's even stranger is that the Majordomo
search-interface displays all of those same MBOXes without any issues.

Investigating the MBOX files in a text editor I found the problematic
ones to have headers starting with From  (without the quotes) which
the working ones didn't, so I removed all those lines from a couple of
MBOX files, imported into the Mailman archives and all looked fine!
Obviously I can't check every single posting, so does my discovery and
solution sound feasible?


Hal


When I read a message that has From  changed to From  (at the
beginning of a line), I have to trouble interpreting the mail.
The URL above says that the transformation corrupts mailboxes.
I would use the term changes, as the e-mail body has been changed.
The term corrupted, in my opinion, means something drastic;
adding a  in front of From  does not make the message
unintelligible.

I dislike the format that uses Content-Length: to determine the end
of a message.  If I edit an archive file and, say delete one line that
contains a password, then I have to change the corresponding
Content-Length: line.

--Barry Finkel
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Emails lost due to receipient spam filters

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 8/28/2014 1:58 AM, Alan Meyer wrote:

Hi,

I recently set up a Ubuntu 14.04 server with Mailman 2.1.16.  It took a while 
for me to configure because I needed to modify the setup procedure from 
Ubuntu's instructions to what the mailman documentation suggested (no use of 
the postfix-to-mailman.py script).

At any rate, my main goal has been to use mailman for an Indian Guides group, 
which for years has just been an email list of about 50 people.  Mailman seemed 
like a great option to help ensure that all of the members are accounted for in 
each email and to have archives available.

The problem that I'm having is that for some people on the list, they don't reliably get 
their emails.  Mostly, this is from members that are on gmail.com or hotmail.com or in 
some cases ymail.com.  The lost emails get stuck in their spam filter, and in 
some cases hotmail users don't get their emails at all.

I did some testing with a practice list I created (sending to my own set of yahoo, gmail 
accounts), where my yahoo account was sending to members on a gmail account.  I found no issue 
sending directly from yahoo to gmail, but from yahoo-mail list-gmail got caught in the 
gmail's spam filter.  The gmail account spam folder would flag it and give me a note something 
to the effect of The sender's yahoo.com address could not be confirmed.

Furthermore, in the gmail account, I can mark the email as Not SPAM but that 
doesn't help on subsequent emails.


As an experiment, I changed a few settings (from default Yes to No), but these 
didn't seem to make a difference:
- Should messages from this mailing list include the RFC 2369 (i.e. List-*) 
headers? Yes is highly recommended.
- Should postings include the List-Post: header?
- Should the Sender header be rewritten for this mailing list to avoid stray 
bounces? Yes is recommended.


My search for SPAM hasn't helped (most SPAM issues are related to actual SPAM 
getting in from user accounts).

Have others encountered this type of issue?  Are there any settings I can use 
or steps I can take to help resolve this?


Thanks in advance.

Sincerely,
-Alan


Alan, I think that you are experiencing DMARC problems.  You need the
latest Mailman (2.1.18-1) to handle DMARC issues.  See the archives
of this list from this past April onward to read about DMARC and
Mailman.

--Barry Finkel

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Re: [Mailman-Users] DNS error behaviour with DMARC

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 8/27/2014 10:54 AM, Jeff White wrote:

With dmarc_moderation_notice set to anything but Accept Mailman will
do a DNS query for every message that comes in and check the DMARC
record of the sending domain.  I have two questions regarding this:

1. Has anyone on this list noticed any performance issues with the
overhead this adds?  I doubt there is anything noticeable but curious if
anyone has seen any issue.

2. What is Mailman's behaviour if the query fails (e.g. times out)?
Defaults.py says:

# Parameters for DMARC DNS lookups. If you are seeing 'DNSException:
# Unable to query DMARC policy ...' entries in your error log, you may need
# to adjust these.
# The time to wait for a response from a name server before timeout.
DMARC_RESOLVER_TIMEOUT = seconds(3)
# The total time to spend trying to get an answer to the question.
DMARC_RESOLVER_LIFETIME = seconds(5)

... but what happens to the post when DNSException is thrown?  Is the
message rejected and a bounce sent to the poster?  Is it re-queued and
tried again?  If so when does Mailman give up?  Does Mailman simply
shunt the post and throw an error?


If someone can point me to the file that holds this code I can review it
and report what the behaviour is.



As for item 1 - What is your DNS setup?  If the Mailman server has a
cacheing-only name server on the same box (and it is good to do so),
or if the Mailman server is contacting a local DNS server for DNS
resolution, then the local DNS server should have the information
cached (for a TTL determined by the owner of the DNS record), so DNS
traffic should be minimal.  I assume that the owner of a DMARC record
in DNS will place an appropriate TTL on the record so that the record
will remain in a DNS cache for a time that will limit the number of
DNS requests back to the master DNS server.  A domain owner should
have multiple DNS servers so that one is always accessible for queries.

--Barry Finkel
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman On Raspbian

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 8/21/2014 7:12 AM, Anthony (N2KI) wrote:

I am installing Mailman on a Pi.  after I installed via the repository I
got this message but do not know how to proceed with this request.  Thanks
for any help to get this operational.



To finish creating your mailing list, you must edit your /etc/aliases (or
equivalent) file by adding the following lines, and possibly running the
`newaliases' program:


## mailman mailing list
mailman:  |/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman
mailman-admin:|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman
mailman-bounces:  |/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman
mailman-confirm:  |/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman
mailman-join: |/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman
mailman-leave:|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman
mailman-owner:|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman
mailman-request:  |/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman
mailman-subscribe:|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman
mailman-unsubscribe:  |/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman

Hit enter to notify mailman owner...




Regards,

Anthony



Anthony, you do what the message says.  I do not know what mailer
you are using (Postfix, sendmail, etc.), so I cannot give you specific
instructions.  Look at your mailer's alias file.  It probably does not
have the aliases (listed above) that are required for Mailman to run.
Run the newaliases commmand, and then check the aliases file.
If these aliases are not in the file, then you have to add them and
use newaliases to rebuilt the aliases database files.

--Barry Finkel

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Re: [Mailman-Users] I'm Stuck

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 8/21/2014 8:17 AM, Anthony (N2KI) wrote:

Tried to start mailman and this is what I get.  Not sure how to proceed.
  It appears that is is looking for a list names mailman but I do not know
how to create it.



pi@raspberrypi ~ $ /etc/init.d/mailman start
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File /var/lib/mailman/bin/list_lists, line 122, in module
 main()
   File /var/lib/mailman/bin/list_lists, line 94, in main
 mlist = MailList.MailList(n, lock=0)
   File /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py, line 130, in __init__
 self.Load()
   File /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py, line 650, in Load
 dict, e = self.__load(file)
   File /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py, line 615, in __load
 fp = open(dbfile)
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck'
[warn] Site list for mailman missing (looking for list named 'mailman').
... (warning).
[warn] Please create it; until then, mailman will refuse to start. ...
(warning).
pi@raspberrypi ~ $




Regards,

Anthony



Anthony, are you following instructions from the web?
Mailman will not start until there is a mailing list named

 mailman

You need to create that list before Mailman will start.
The instructions for this should be on the web; I do not
have the URL handy.


--Barry Finkel
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Re: [Mailman-Users] postfix errors

[Barry S. Finkel]

On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 11:01 AM, Jimmy g17ji...@gmail.com wrote:



I'm not sure why it's trying to use a username 'list', if that is the
problem. Here are the things you mentioned. Thanks.

==master.cf==
mailman   unix  -   n   n   -   -   pipe
   flags=FR user=list argv=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py
   ${nexthop} ${user}

==/etc/postfix/transport==
lists.listdomain.com  mailman:

==postconf -n==
alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases
alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases
command_directory = /usr/sbin
config_directory = /etc/postfix
daemon_directory = /usr/libexec/postfix
data_directory = /var/lib/postfix
default_privs = nobody
html_directory = no
inet_interfaces = all
inet_protocols = ipv4
mail_owner = postfix
mailq_path = /usr/bin/mailq.postfix
mydestination = $myhostname localhost.$mydomain localhost
lists.listdomain.com
mydomain = lists.listdomain.com
mynetworks = 10.0.0.0/8
mynetworks_style = subnet
newaliases_path = /usr/bin/newaliases.postfix
queue_directory = /var/spool/postfix
recipient_delimiter = +
relay_domains = listdomain.com
relayhost = mailserver.prod.listdomain.com
sendmail_path = /usr/sbin/sendmail.postfix
setgid_group = postdrop
soft_bounce = no
transport_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/transport
unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550



On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 11:43 AM, Jimmy g17ji...@gmail.com wrote:


I am still working on this new mailman system and seeing these errors
when an email is sent to the system. I've googled the errors and haven't
yet found anything that helps. Any ideas? Thanks

2014-07-17T10:38:52.396296-04:00 listservhostname postfix/smtpd[13799]:
connect from unknown[10.0.0.1]
2014-07-17T10:38:52.497048-04:00 listservhostname postfix/smtpd[13799]:
790A84583: client=unknown[10.0.0.1]
2014-07-17T10:38:52.613030-04:00 listservhostname postfix/cleanup[13802]:
790A84583: message-id=
7e1decc87c4844c18882f3a27eefa...@corpexchmbx10.listdomain.com
2014-07-17T10:38:52.625741-04:00 listservhostname postfix/qmgr[13725]:
790A84583: from=usern...@listdomain.com, size=5925, nrcpt=1 (queue
active)
2014-07-17T10:38:52.635273-04:00 listservhostname postfix/pipe[13803]:
fatal: get_service_attr: unknown username: list
2014-07-17T10:38:52.666526-04:00 listservhostname postfix/smtpd[13799]:
disconnect from unknown[10.0.0.1]
2014-07-17T10:38:53.637115-04:00 listservhostname postfix/qmgr[13725]:
warning: private/mailman socket: malformed response
2014-07-17T10:38:53.637153-04:00 listservhostname postfix/qmgr[13725]:
warning: transport mailman failure -- see a previous warning/fatal/panic
logfile record for the problem description
2014-07-17T10:38:53.638431-04:00 listservhostname postfix/master[13722]:
warning: process /usr/libexec/postfix/pipe pid 13803 exit status 1
2014-07-17T10:38:53.638453-04:00 listservhostname postfix/master[13722]:
warning: /usr/libexec/postfix/pipe: bad command startup -- throttling
2014-07-17T10:38:53.656307-04:00 listservhostname postfix/error[13805]:
790A84583: to=systems-change...@lists.listdomain.com, relay=none,
delay=1.2, delays=0.14/1/0/0.01, dsn=4.3.0, status=deferred (unknown mail
transport error)
2014-07-17T10:39:42.687502-04:00 listservhostname postfix/qmgr[13725]:
740AF107: from=usern...@listdomain.com, size=5114, nrcpt=1 (queue
active)
2014-07-17T10:39:42.699454-04:00 listservhostname postfix/error[13805]:
740AF107: to=systems-change...@lists.listdomain.com, relay=none,
delay=539, delays=539/0.01/0/0, dsn=4.3.0, status=deferred (unknown mail
transport error)



On 7/21/2014 11:05 AM, Jimmy wrote: Based on this error and the 
following link I think I'm missing something

 from my /etc/postfix/transport.

 unknown mail transport error
 
http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Mailman+-+Postfix+integration+with+Mailman+generated+transport+or+other+maps


 I used the 'integrating mailman and postfix' guide but don't see what I
 need to do to fix it.
 Thanks


Why do you use   postfix-to-mailman.py ?
That piece is not recommended by the Mailman developers.  See

 http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=15564817

--Barry Finkel

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Erratic mail delivery times

[Barry S. Finkel]

 -Original Message-
 From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:m...@msapiro.net]
 Sent: Monday, 14 July 2014 10:55 PM
 To: Peter Shute; GNU mailman users
 Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Erratic mail delivery times

 On July 14, 2014 4:29:16 AM PDT, Peter Shute
 psh...@nuw.org.au wrote:

 Can I assume this has nothing to do with mailman?


 Look at the Received: headers in the received message to
 determine where the delay is.

 Could grey listing be involved?



 --
 Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net
 Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. [Unpaid endorsement]


On 7/14/2014 8:43 PM, Peter Shute wrote:

Would grey listing show up in the headers? We haven't installed grey listing 
here, but who know what our anti spam does. If it's using it then it certainly 
isn't using it consistently. I can't see anything in the Exchange Message 
Tracking logs that shows anything unusual as they come in. They simply arrive 
late.

I dumped from Outlook the last few weeeks of send and received times for stuff 
I've received from this list. Some of the delays will be moderation time, but I 
can see that the number of messages delayed longer than a few minutes increased 
greatly on 11/7/14, but that there is still the occasional one that comes 
though within a minute.

These are the top two headers from a delayed message. Does this tell me 
anything other than it was received by the server upstream of mine 21 minutes 
before it was received by mine? If so then the delay could be before that 
upstream server sent it on, or while it waited for my server to accept it. If 
it tried several times, would that be shown in the headers?

Received: from s26.web-hosting.com (192.64.112.70) by NUWVICMS2.nuw.org.au
  (192.168.0.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.1.436.0; Fri, 11 Jul 2014
  09:11:01 +1000
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37183 helo=server26.web-hosting.com)  
by
  server26.web-hosting.com with esmtp (Exim 4.82)   (envelope-from
  birding-aus-boun...@birding-aus.org)  id 1X5NAu-001sA8-Fw; Thu, 10 Jul 2014
  18:50:48 -0400



The server26 machine accepted the mail from localhost at 18:50:48 .
The NUWVICMS2 machine accepted the mail from server26 at 09:11:01
The time difference is 9:12 + 11:01 = 20:12.  Twenty minutes seems
a long time for greylisting.  You would have to look at the mail logs
from the NUWVICMS2 machine to see what it was doing from 08:50 until
09:11 (GMT+1000) to know why the mail was delayed.  Also, the logs
on the server16 machine would probably tell if server26 tried an earlier
connection to the NUWVICMS2 machine.

--Barry Finkel
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about rejection messages.

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 7/1/2014 6:50 AM, Robert Heller wrote:

I am the site admin of a server that hosts a bunch of Mailman lists and on the
1st of the month Mailman sends out its monthly reminder messages.  Some of
these messages are bouncing.  Some are *obviously* for people who have changed
E-Mail providers (the bunces say 'User Unknown' or 'Mailbox full').  But some
have 'odd' rejection reasons and I wonder what it really going on.

Comcast is bouncing with the message:
 reason: 554 Transaction Failed Spam Message not queued.

Is this Comcast's way of 'hiding' the fact that the E-Mail address is no
longer valid? That is, does Comcast consider E-Mail to unknown users spam?





My interpretation of the message is this - Comcast, for some unstated
reason, thinks that this mail is spam, so it is not going to accept
the message.  Without seeing the exact mail that was being sent,
I cannot tell what Comcast might have thought objectionable.

--Barry Finkel
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[Mailman-Users] DMARC

[Barry S. Finkel]

I have in one of my mailboxes a scam from June 10 that has

 From: Chase Notification ad...@enews.sbmedianews.com

In the web MUA I use for this account, only the display name

 Chase Notification

is shown on the screen as the sender.  DMARC obviously will not
help in this case.  I have no idea if the scammers are now
avoiding using an e-mail address .@chase.com because
the address is not shown as the sender in some MUAs.

--Barry Finkel

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Export all subsribers

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 06/09/2014 01:16 PM, EyeLand wrote:


urlhttp://vps1.ournet.biz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailman
emailmail...@vps1.ournet.biz
control panel ISPConfighttps://vps1.ournet.biz:8080/

now I want only to export all emails (10 000) to txt file from that mailman 
list



If I interpret the poster's request, EyeLand wants all of the messages
that have been posted to the list in a .txt file.  If this is the case,
then the list archives in

 $listname.mbox/$listname.mbox

has all of the posted mail messages in mbox format.  That is essentially
a .txt file with a

 From email address date

line beginning in column 1 at the start of each message in the file.

--Barry Finkel
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Get newer version of Mailman for Debian 6?

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 5/14/2014 2:40 PM, Sascha Rissel wrote:

Hello there,

I am running a vServer on Debian6.
Via apt-get install mailman I installed and set up Mailman 2.1.13, which
is running fine with 5 mailing lists on my server.

Motivated by all those discussions about Yahoo's DMARC on this list, I
wondered whether I can upgrade my Mailman installation to a newer version.

I tried apt-get update and apt-get upgrade but I did not receive a
newer version of Mailman.

Unfortunately I don't consider myself as good enough in Linux usage, to be
able to build Mailman binaries from scratch on my own. Indeed I tried, but
already upon executing configure (Step 3 in Mailman's installation
guidehttp://list.org/mailman-install/node7.html)
I got a python warning

Distutils is not available or is incomplete

which seems to tell me I should install another Python environment.

So I came to the point when I decided that compiling Mailman on my own is
too complicated for me, because in the end I definitely want a bug-free
installation of Mailman.

Is there maybe an easier way to get a more recent version of Mailman for my
server?

In advance, thanks for your help!
Sascha.


When I was running a Mailman server on an Ubuntu box, I was forced to
install via a package.  But I did some research on the Debian/Ubuntu
package to see what was in it.  There were many patches that were
undocumented, and there was one patch that deleted a library that,
in some cases, is required.  So, I decided to build my own package
from the SourceForge source.  That way, I would know EXACTLY what
the source was, and I could get support from this discussion list.

It took me a while to determine what to do,
but after I had built and tested the package, I had no problems
building packages for subsequent Mailman releases.  IIRC, the last
Mailman for which I built a package was 2.1.14.  I do not know if
any changes since then would require changes to the package-build
process.  I have details on what I did, if anyone is interested.

--Barry Finkel

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Executive summary of DMARC issues

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 5/14/2014 2:49 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

Gary Algier writes:

   I have been following the discussion of the DMARC issues and Mailman's
   attempts to live with it.  I was wondering if anyone has an Executive
   Summary of the DMARC issue in a general sense.

How about the following:

DMARC is a set of protocols for Internet mail that are used to by
participating hosts to exchange information about mail traffic.  This
information is primarily useful for fighting email fraud, including
spam and phishing.  The basic procedure is that recipient hosts which
participate in the protocol check whether the apparent sending domain
(the domain that appears in the address in From header field)
participates, using a query to the DNS defined by the DMARC protocol.
If so, the recipient host will send to that domain some information
about mail which purports to be from the sending host, but fails to
validate.

The validation refers specifically to, and only to, the domain in the
From header field.  The DMARC protocol itself does not validate the
mailbox (user), although some originating hosts may do so.  Nor can it
guarantee that the user's account hasn't been used fraudulently.

For participants in the DMARC protocol, valid mail provides a strong
guarantee that the domain of the address in the From header field
is authentic, with some strong restrictions required to ensure success
of validation.  These restrictions include:

(1) When authentic mail is delivered directly from the sending host to
 the recipient, validation will succeed.

(2) When authentic mail is forwarded verbatim by all intervening
 Internet hosts (including mailing lists and user mailbox
 forwarding), validation will succeed.

Authentic mail may fail to validate in many common circumstances,
where a forwarding host alters certain headers or any part of the body
of the message.  This may occur for forwarding hosts which add
advertisements to the footer or the like, or if a forwarding host
reformats the body (it shouldn't do that, but some do).  There are
also restrictions on some parts of the mail.  For example, the From
header field must contain exactly one address (multiple author
addresses are permitted by the mail standards and are occasionally
useful, though rarely seen nowadays).

Failure to validate is also frequent on mailing lists.  Common
transformations that *will* cause mail distributed by a mailing list
to fail validation include (but are not limited to)

- Adding a list tag or sequence number to the Subject header field.

- Adding a footer, typically containing unsubscribe information for
   public discussion lists or legal disclaimers for corporate lists.

- Removal of banned content, such as executable file attachments or
   excessively large attachments.

Because many common practices with Internet mail can cause authentic
mail to fail DMARC validation, although mail which successfully
validates may be trusted to be from the domain in the address in the
From field, failure to validate in general *does not* imply lack of
authenticity.

Under some circumstances, a sending domain may be willing to severely
restrict its users' use of their addresses.  For example, they may not
be allowed to post to mailing lists, and recipients may be advised to
*always* keep their addresses updated to the domain where they
actually read their mail.  This is common practice with banks and
other financial institutions.  Such organizations can be reasonably
sure that mail which fails to validate is fraudulent (although the
intent may be merely mischievious rather than truly felonious).  They
may take advantage of a further feature of the DMARC protocol, the
policy, which is the action that the sending domain suggests that
recipients take with mail that appears to be from that domain but
fails validation.

The normal policy is none, that is, the recipient should deliver the
mail as though the apparent sending domain did not participate in
DMARC.  (Of course, if the mail fails spam or virus checks, it would
be quarantined or discarded as usual.)  The second level is
quarantine, which means that the mail should not be delivered
directly to the user's mailbox in the ordinary way, for fear of
fraudulent use of the sending address (typically phishing).  The third
level is reject, which means that the sender recommends that the
mail not be delivered at all, to completely prevent fraudulent misuse
of their domain.

Unfortunately, unless the sending domain has truly draconian policies
about the use of addresses in that domain, use of quarantine or
reject makes it virtually certain that some authentic mail will not
be read in a timely fashion or (in the case of reject) never
delivered at all.

The reject policy may also result in denial of services to third
parties (one common case is having delivery disabled from a mailing
list, or even being unsubscribed), due to rejected mail being
bounced back to the forwarding host.  At present we know of 

Re: [Mailman-Users] quick question

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 4/13/2014 3:34 PM, Al Black wrote:

Hi gang,

I'm getting a little tired of going through the mail logs just to get an idea of 
how are the damn dmarc bounces doing today.

Has anybody written a little script to sort through and count the bounces?  
Ideally, it would mail me the results, though part of me thinks it would be 
more ideal to mail to results to me and yahoo abuse.

thanks,
al


Mark Sapiro has a script that lists the bounce scores for a list.
When I was running a Mailman server, I ran the report every morning
to see, for each list, any subscriber with a non-zero bounce score.
Check the archives for a link to the script.

--Barry Finkel
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Re: [Mailman-Users] subscribed address that forwards to secondary address can't be identified

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 4/4/2014 4:29 PM, Christopher Adams wrote:

Hello all,

This is not necessarily a Mailman question, but I thought someone
administering Mailman may have come across this before.

A person is receiving mail through a list. The address that they are
currently using (@gmail.com) is not subscribed to the list. I assume that
means a subscribed address is forwarding to the gmail account. The gmail
account people don't have any idea what they could have been subscribed as.
I thought maybe the Mailman or MTA logs would show the susbscribed address
forwarding to the gmail address. However, I can't find anything, so can't
identify which address is the culprit.

Does anyone have an idea how to get to the bottom of this?



Get a copy of the mail as received and look at the RFC 5322 mail
headers.  Those headers should give the entire mail path, and
one of the Received lines may have a for u...@example.com
piece.

--Barry Finkel


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Sending password reminder emails.

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 3/5/2014 1:03 PM, Richard wrote:

Hello Everyone,

I have more than once wished I could send out password reminder emails
to either individuals or an entire list. However, I haven't found a way
to do that yet. How can I do this, please?

Thanks,
Richard


There should be a cron to send password reminders each month.
IIRC, each list has an admin setting that determines if that
list gets reminders.  ALL of my list-creation templates had
reminders disabled; I did nothing to disable the cron job.
As I wrote to this list on Feb. 28 - when I was running a
Mailman installation, I saw no need to send password reminders.

--Barry Finkel
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Re: [Mailman-Users] control delivery processes

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 3/3/2014 3:25 PM, DongInn Kim wrote:

Hi,

Is there a way to send a mail after it is archived and then add the archive 
link to the new mail?

Currently it seems to be pretty difficult to implement this because all the new 
mails are delivered first and then mail archives are generated.

As long as I know how mailman sends a mail, I think I can play a little bit 
further.

Can anyone please help me out?

Regards,

--
- DongInn



It is unclear to me exactly what you want to do.  If the list has
an archive, then after the posting is processed, that posting
appears in the archives, where people can search and view the
posting (assuming that they present the correct credentials,
if required).

Once a mail message has been sent and it is in the archives, then
any subsequent mail message can include the URL to the archived
message as a reference.

--Barry Finkel
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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman list questions about password and bounces-back for invalid emails

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 2/27/2014 1:01 PM, s7r wrote:

Hi,

I have 2 simple questions about mailman mail lists:

1). I can see there is an option to receive monthly reminder of
password, and the password is sent in plain text. Is the password in
plain text visible to the mail list owner / administrator? Or mailman
stores a secure hash of the password like sha-256 or ripemd-160? If
the password is stored in hash format, how come I can receive it
monthly in plain text?


2). If an email address works for some time but becomes suddenly
invalid (e.g. server down, domain cancelled, etc.) and when messages
are being sent to that address they bounce back with permanent
failure, will mailman remove these email addresses automatically? If
yes, after how many attempts of sending? What if the email address
server is just down for a day or something.

Thank you!

- --
s...@sky-ip.org


The answer to 2) is contained in the bounce score values that have
been set for the list.  Each subscriber has a bounce score of 0.
For each bounce, the bounce score is updated by 1, but only one
bounce a day increases the score.  When the score reaches the pre-set
limit (default 5), the subscriber is set to NOMAIL (due to bounces).
Then once per week, an e-mail is sent to the subscriber telling
him/her that the list subscription has been disabled.  If there is
no response after the third notification, then the subscriber is
unsubscribed.  Only the last bounce message is sent to the list
owner.  The list owner controls the bounce parameters.

When I was in charge of a Mailman system, I ran a bounce report
every morning so that I could see all bounce scores  0 for all
lists on the server.  I had lists built from external sources
(i.e., an HR Database), and I needed to know what addresses in the
HR Database were bad.  This report came from Mark Sapiro's
collection of useful Mailman programs.

As for passwords, I disabled the monthly password reminders.
Many of my lists were auto-subscribe lists (from HR), and the
subscriber almost never needed his/her password.  I do not remember
a case where a subscriber needed assistance with a list password.

--Barry Finkel
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Re: [Mailman-Users] POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD run once?

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 1/3/2014 11:28 AM, Frank Murphy wrote:

On Thu, 02 Jan 2014 16:01:02 -0600
Barry S. Finkelbsfin...@att.net  wrote:


On 1/2/2014 8:42 AM, Gary Algier wrote:

 Hi,
 
 I just installed a new Mailman (2.1.12) server on Centos 6.4.



One question I have had for a while - As 2.1.17 is the latest release
Mailman, why do people do new installations with versions that
are old?

2.1.12 released 2009-02-23
2.1.17 released 2013-11-23

I did Google searches, and I found that CentOS 6.4 was released
May 23, 2013 and contains Mailman 2.1.12.

CentOS prefer stability, #like other enterprise distros
for latest updates use *buntu, fedora etc..


___
Regards,
Frank
www.frankly3d.com



When I was working as a systems programmer with an IBM mainframe,
there was one piece of critical software that the applications
group would not let me patch.  If it isn't broken, don't fix it.
Then, they were installing an add-on that required a patch to be
installed.  Installing that one patch involved installing over
1600 patches, and IBM had to write a fix for me because the IBM
software that controls installation of system software had problems
with the installation of that many patches at once.  And, the
applications group had begun using their test system for production
work, so they had no system on which to test the patched software.

When I was managing a Mailman installation, I kept Mailman
up-to-date, because I never knew when one of my lists would
encounter a bug that had already been fixed.

--Barry Finkel
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Re: [Mailman-Users] POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD run once?

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 1/3/2014 2:52 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

Barry S. Finkel writes:

   When I was working as a systems programmer with an IBM mainframe,

Interesting anecdote, but it addresses the wrong end of the issue.  We
already know that distros should keep their packages up to date.  The
question is why that doesn't happen.  This:

   When I was managing a Mailman installation, I kept Mailman
   up-to-date, because I never knew when one of my lists would
   encounter a bug that had already been fixed.

leads to a more interesting question: And to which distribution did
you contribute package control files to allow all the users of that
distribution to benefit from your work?  And did they immediately
install them, or did their QA group dither about testing them for
months?

What we try to do in XEmacs is allow the upstream developer to commit
directly to our package repository.  But even then not all do, and we
don't really have a QA process (except for beta testing, so in
practice we're never out of beta for most packages :-).  Few users are
willing to contribute maintenance, although many contribute first
draft patches and even whole packages.

It's not an easy problem.



I was using Ubuntu, and my management told me that I had to
install a package.  So I spent some time learning how to take
the Debian/Ubuntu package, merge the current SourceForge source,
and generate a new package.  I have posted on this list that I
did this.  Only one person has requested info on what I did.

The problem I had with the Debian/Ubuntu package, besides the
fact that it was not the current version and that help might not
be available via this mailing list, was that there were a large
number of patches installed by the Debian support group.
Most of those patches were not documented, and I had no idea
what they did (or if they were needed).  IIRC, Mark looked at
the patches a few years ago.  There also was one patch that
deleted a library that, in some cases, was needed by Mailman.

When I built a new package from the current source I knew

1) exactly what code I was running, and

2) that I could receive excellent support from this list.

The problem, as I see it, with the Debian method is that when
Mark announces a new release of Mailman, the Debian support group
has to spend time re-fitting their patches.  The ONLY Debian patch
that I kept was one that placed the Mailman libraries in the
proper directories for Debian/Ubuntu.

--Barry Finkel

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Re: [Mailman-Users] POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD run once?

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 1/2/2014 8:42 AM, Gary Algier wrote:

Hi,

I just installed a new Mailman (2.1.12) server on Centos 6.4.



One question I have had for a while - As 2.1.17 is the latest release
Mailman, why do people do new installations with versions that
are old?

2.1.12 released 2009-02-23
2.1.17 released 2013-11-23

I did Google searches, and I found that CentOS 6.4 was released
May 23, 2013 and contains Mailman 2.1.12.  Is it too much to
expect an OS vendor to keep packages current?  I do not know if
CentOS is like Debian/Ubuntu, with lots of undocumented mods that
would have to be tested with a new release of the OS.

--Barry Finkel

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Rejected or bounced messages.

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 1/1/2014 3:28 PM, Joe wrote:

Hi, everyone.

I have received several messages returned as rejected that were sent by my 
Mailman server as the 1st of the month subscription reminder.

These messages contain a technical explanation about the reason for their 
rejection I don't understand but it seems to me it has something to do with the 
way the messages are formatted. I received several of these messages from a 
total of nearly 350 members we host at this moment.

I won't post the messages and their entire content but just some of the reasons 
for their rejection. Here they are:


MESSAGE 1:


I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not
be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.

For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster.

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the attached returned message.

   The mail system

m...@epdot.com: host mx1.megamailservers.com[216.251.32.71] said: 550
5.7.1 s01D0qcI004613 This message does not comply with required standards.
(in reply to end of DATA command)


MESSAGE 2:


I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not
be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.

For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster.

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the attached returned message.

   The mail system

m...@me.com: host mx6.me.com.akadns.net[17.158.8.114] said: 550
5.1.1 unknown or illegal alias: usern...@me.com (in reply to RCPT
TO command)


MESSAGE 3:


I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not
be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.

For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster.

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the attached returned message.

   The mail system

m...@cgocable.ca: host mx2.cgocable.ca[216.221.81.40] said: 550 #5.1.0
Address rejected. (in reply to RCPT TO command)


MESSAGE 4:


I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not
be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.

For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster.

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the attached returned message.

   The mail system

m...@msn.com: host mx2.hotmail.com[65.55.92.168] said: 550 Requested
action not taken: mailbox unavailable (in reply to RCPT TO command)


Do you have any idea as to why these messages have been returned and what I 
need to do to resolve this issue ?

Thank you in advance for your help.

Joe.



Message 1: This message does not comply with required standards.

I have no idea.

-

Message 2: m...@me.com: ...  unknown or illegal alias: usern...@me.com

It appears that the e-mail alias table at the destination is bad.
The e-mail alias username points to the mailbox mail.
Maybe that mailbox does not exist.

-

Message 3: Address rejected

The mailbox does not exist.

-

Message 4: mailbox unavailable

The mailbox does not exist.

--Barry Finkel

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Rejected or bounced messages.

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 1/1/2014 4:33 PM, Joseph Brennan wrote:


These three were stopped after RCPT, so the problem is not about
content. Most likely the recipient address is not deliverable.

m...@me.com: host mx6.me.com.akadns.net[17.158.8.114] said: 550
   5.1.1 unknown or illegal alias: usern...@me.com (in reply to RCPT
   TO command)

m...@cgocable.ca: host mx2.cgocable.ca[216.221.81.40] said: 550 #5.1.0
   Address rejected. (in reply to RCPT TO command)

m...@msn.com: host mx2.hotmail.com[65.55.92.168] said: 550 Requested
   action not taken: mailbox unavailable (in reply to RCPT TO command)




The first one is the unusual case.

m...@epdot.com: host mx1.megamailservers.com[216.251.32.71] said: 550
   5.7.1 s01D0qcI004613 This message does not comply with required
standards.
   (in reply to end of DATA command)

I've never seen this error before.

Google This message does not comply with required standards to find a
lot of people speculating about what it means, going back to 2006. They
all relate it to Exchange or Outlook, but mx1.megamailservers.com says
it is running Sendmail 8.13.6, and this is not a standard sendmail error
message. So it's a custom filter on megamailservers.com.

Here's an example involving Mailman and megamailservers.com from 2007!
http://list.web.net/archives/getsmart-l/2007-December/002525.html
... with complete message attached. I don't see anything wrong with it.


Joseph Brennan
Columbia University IT







--




I did a Google search, and it appears that the destination mailer
found something objectionable with the mail (maybe a URL that
it did not trust, or the mail was to be flagged as spam),
so the destination mailer terminated the SMTP session
with a fatal 5.7.1 error message.  Most of the sites I saw
were, as Joseph noted, from Outlook or Exchange users who were
trying to blame MS, when it was the sending MS mailer that was
reporting what the destination mailer reported during the SMTP
dialog.  There must be some anti-spam/malware software running
on the destination mailer that is treating something in the mail
as objectionable.  If I remember the SMTP standard correctly,
mail can be rejected during the DATA phase of the dialog.

In the other three examples, the sender sent the SMTP command

 RCPT TO:u...@example.com

and the destination mailer rejected the mail at that point because
the mailbox did not exist.  It is always better to reject a mail
message during the SMTP dialog because, once the mail has been
received, it is harder to reject the mail and notify the sending
system.

--Barry Finkel

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Preventing monthly membership reminder

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 12/5/2013 8:42 AM, Gary Lee Phillips wrote:

Oddly enough, I have the opposite problem. We do want monthly reminders,
but everyone is getting two identical reminder messages each month. How
do I limit this to a single reminder without turning off reminders
completely?

--
   Gary Lee Phillips
   Harvard Diggins Library
   815-943-4671

Avoid fruits and nuts. You are what you eat.


My guess is that you have two monthly crons running.
They may not be running from the same crontab file;
one may be running from Mailman's and one from the
system crontab.

--Barry Finkel
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman reusing message-id, leads to duplicate message suppression

[Barry S. Finkel]

In cases like this, I suggest that the user check the list's archive.


Only if the list has an archive.

--Barry Finkel

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Re: [Mailman-Users] tuning bounce behavior with VERP

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 9/2/2013 12:52 PM, Perry E. Metzger wrote:

I have a Postfix setup with VERP turned on for some lists that I run.
(I'm cool with the load using VERP with every message implies.)

I'd like to be able to tune bounce behavior, but the documentation for
this seems a bit spotty. What can I adjust to make things behave the
way I might like?

Perry
-- Perry E. Metzger pe...@piermont.com


If I remember all of the parameters correctly, you can set

a) the bounce score when the bounce is determined fatal
   and the NDR message is sent to the list owner(s).
   The default is 5.0 .

I do not remember the other settings.  But the URL

 http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-admin/node25.html

lists them.  A fatal NDR (once per day) is
treated as a bounce, and increases the bounce score by 1.0 . A soft
bounce is counted as 0.5 .  When I was running a Mailman server I ran
a daily report that gave me for each list all of the subscribers with
a bounce score greater than 0.0; this was via a script written by Marc
Sapiro.

The list owner(s) does/do not see any NDR until the bounce score reaches
the maximum.

--Barry Finkel
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Re: [Mailman-Users] aliases file: using globally unique user IDs (as in Sympa virtual domains)

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 7/29/2013 11:27 AM, Daniel Pocock wrote:

On 29/07/13 17:53, Mark Sapiro wrote:

On 07/29/2013 08:35 AM, Daniel Pocock wrote:

Migrating to Mailman, I'd like to do something like this:

   lists.example.org-list1:
|/var/lib/mailmen/lists.example.org/mail/mailman post list1

where I have a dedicated Mailman install under
/var/lib/mailmen/lists.example.org just for that domain.


Should this all work OK with Mailman?


Yes.



Will Mailman even notice that the envelope address was changed into
something else or does it only look at what is inside the message?


I don't see that any envelope address changes, but in any case, Mailman
doesn't look at envelope recipient. Either the message gets to Mailman
or it doesn't. If it got there, Mailman must have been a recipient.

Mailman does look for the list address in To: or Cc: if the list's
require_explicit_destination is yes.



Is there any way to automatically create aliases like this, or any hook
where Mailman can call a script that I use for creating the aliases?


See MTA = 'Postfix' and related settings. You may or may not need to
hack Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py.

I've just had a look at the postfix-to-mailman.py script included with
the Debian package so I'm going to try that.  It appears that will get
me halfway to what I want, as it eliminates the need to maintain these
aliases and virtual aliases.  There is some confusion about how MTA
should be set:

http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=718284

and I suspect that further effort (the type of things discussed in my other 
email) is required to have a site list in each virtual domain.


When I looked at the Ubuntu/Debian package, I saw that there were lots
of patches, many of which were undocumented.  And one patch deletes a
library that might be needed.  Because of this, I decided to build my
own package for Ubuntu based on the SourceForge source.  The only
Debian patch I included was one that placed libraries in directories
appropriate for Debian/Ubuntu.

Also, as discussed previously on this list, the

 postfix-to-mailman.py

script is NOT part of the SourceForge Mailman, and its use is
discouraged.  There is a Mailman FAQ that describes this
script and the recommendation not to use it.

I have details on building the package, if anyone wants them.

--Barry Finkel


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Problems after server migration

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 7/15/2013 9:49 AM, a...@alv.cl wrote:


Hi,

I just migrated my mailman installation from an old fedora server to a
new centos server.

I followed the instructions described here:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-January/055208.html

The URLs remained the same, but the IP changed.

If I try to start the mailman service, it says:

# service mailman start
Starting mailman: Site list is missing: mailman

If I run list_lists, it shows all the lists I migrated (including mailman).

I used mailmanctl instead and it worked:

# ./mailmanctl start
Starting Mailman's master qrunner.

But none of the old lists are recognized. Sending a mail to any of them
results in a bounced message:

Command died with status 1: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman
post some-list. Command output: post script, list not found: some-list

Web interface doesn't recognize old lists either.

I created a new list and it worked like a charm.

I tried fixing perms with check_perms, but nothing.

What am I missing?


Thanks in advance for your help!


-alv-
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http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/bsfinkel%40att.net



Does Postfix know where your Mailman alias file is?
Does that alias file contain aliases for all of your lists?
Have you run the newaliases command?
--Barry Finkel
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Gmail RFC 2822

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 5/15/2013 10:45 AM, Dave Jones wrote, in part:

I am not sure the best place to solve this problem but I will start with
this list since the problem is impacting a heavy traffic mailman listserv.


Since Mark did not respond to this, I will.  Mailman is not listserv.
Listserv is a registered trademark of L-soft, and is one of a
number of Mailing List Management software packages available.
Mailman is another MLM software package.

(I first met the founder of L-soft when he was still a student in
Paris.)
--Barry Finkel
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Importing old archives into Mailman

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 5/10/2013 10:27 AM, Larry Kuenning wrote, in part:

Fortunately my old archives were already in mbox format.  Or rather,
almost in mbox format.  The old incarnation of my lists had been on a
server where I had a low usage quota, so I had been downloading all
archives over a year old and storing them on my home computer.  In doing
so, I had passed them through a word processor macro to do some minimal
cleanup, which was chiefly to remove the  that mbox files put in
front of body lines beginning with From  (From the historian's
viewpoint, one subscriber wrote).



The  in front of From  in message bodies IS REQUIRED.
The separator for individual mail messages in an mbox file
is the From . line that contains a data and maybe a sender
e-mail address.  Any other line that begins in column one with the 
five-character string From  will be treated as a message separator.


Technically, any character in the first column before From 
in the next five characters will work; the  character is the
one that was chosen a long time ago.

--Barry Finkel
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Upgrade for Postfix Mailman

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 1/25/2013 2:05 PM, Jeff Bernier wrote:

Hello All,

I am currently running Mailman (2.1.14) and Postfix (2.4.3) on an aging Mac
OS X server (10.5.8). Mailman and Postfix on this system are Apple's
implementation on their platform of course. Apple no longer supports the
Xserve platform, and I am in need of replacing this system, and upgrading
to newer versions of Postfix and Mailman.

We use Postfix for our on campus SMTP Gateway, and Mailman for a small
number of active lists. The traffic is light.

Can anyone recommend a good replacement to this? Recommended Unix/Linux? Is
a VM environment an option?

I would like to get away from the Mac solution, and set up some flavor of
Unix with more current versions of Postfix and Mailman. I know this is a
very broad question, but I have a blank canvas here... just looking for a
direction to go in.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks

http://risd.cc/finadmin-faq
Jeff Bernier
Email  Accounts Administration
Rhode Island School of Design
20 Washington Place, Providence RI 02903
401.454.6168
--


I would suggest a virtual Linux machine.  I would use the
SourceForge source instead of any pre-packaged Mailman
solution.  I looked at the Debian/Ubuntu Mailman package a
number of years ago, and there were many patches that were not
documented.  At least one patch incorrectly removed a library that
may be needed.  I had to use a package, so I took the Debian/Ubuntu
package and used it to build my own package from the SourceForge source.
The only Debian/Ubuntu patch that I kept was one that placed the various
Mailman libraries in the proper directories for Debian/Ubuntu.
With only a few lists, there is no need for a real machine.  Make sure
that you allocate enough disk space for the growing list archives.

I am not sure if there are any Apple-installed patches that may be
incompatible with the SourceForge source.

--Barry Finkel
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate Messages

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 1/6/2013 1:31 PM, David Andrews wrote:
My Mailman system sends out duplicate (two copies) of some 
administrative-type messages.  There are two password reminder 
messages sent out each month, two copies of the once-a-day message 
that announces pending messages in a list, and two messages each 
morning at 8:00 a.m. from the list mailman. There isn't such a list 
where the links work, can be edited etc. Presume it is the template 
for other lists, or some such thing.


What causes these behaviors and how do I fix them?  Thanks in advance.

Dave


Look to see if you have two crontab sets - one old-style and one new-style.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Help with Mailman

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 10/10/2012 8:13 PM, Gotham Webmaster wrote:

I manage a website
http://www.gothamnetworking.com
that uses Mailman as it's listserv

We have over 775 members, 40 groups and run about 146 separate mailing lists

Once list in particular is not working and I don't know why. I could use some 
help.

Thanks,
  
Mitch Tobol

Gotham Webmaster
webmas...@gothamnetworking.com
631-842-4600

First, Listserv is a registered trademark of the product from L-soft; 
it is not a

generic term that describes mailing list management software.
Second, define is not working.  Many things could be happening, but 
without more

details, we have no idea what fixes to suggest.
--Barry Finkel
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Re: [Mailman-Users] local emails cannot receive.

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 9/13/2012 12:36 AM, P.V.Anthony wrote:

Hi,

I really have a very strange problem. I must have messed up somewhere.

When I create mailling lists named supp...@example.com and 
sa...@example.com, local users like us...@example.com and 
us...@example.com cannot receive the emails. Where else external 
emails like u...@external.com receives the email.


Then I created another mailing list called anot...@example.com, for 
this local and external emails accounts receive the emails.


It looks like, the name support and sales has something wrong on 
my system. I am really lost now. I do not know where to even start 
looking for the fault.


There are no email accounts with the name supp...@example.com or 
sa...@example.com on the server.


The server is CentOS 6.3 64bit. Smtp is postfix with dovecot.

Mailman version 2.1.12.

Really need some advice. Please share a solution or suggest where to 
look for possible setting error.


P.V.Anthony



All outbound mail from Mailman goes through your MTA - Postfix in your case.
What do the Postfix logs report about the mail to the support and/or sales
mailboxes?  Check the Postfix configuration to see what alias files 
Postfix is
reading.  Maybe you have an unknown alias file that routes support and 
sales

somewhere else?  And check that postalias has been run on all of the alias
files.
--Barry Finkel

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Unable to approve messages

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 9/7/2012 2:05 AM, Alex TW LAM wrote:

Dear All,

We have a mailman system setup a long time ago, it requires approval 
for any messages posted on the mailing list.


Starting recently, the moderator of list no longer able approve newly 
posted message, they are still able to receive the waiting for 
approval message, which I suppose means the wrapper script in aliases 
file works.


But after they entered Approved mod pw in the first line of the 
confirm mail (email command). Nothing would happened, list members 
would not receive posted, nor would the moderator received 
Confirmation succeeded message.


I have tried all the method, at first I suspected it was the group 
settings problem. But then I realize if this is the case the waiting 
for approval would not have been sent.


The confirm and approve email command originally worked, but just 
suddenly stopped working. The Any one have ideas?


Regards,
Alex Lam

Alex, if you are trying to approve via an e-mail message, then check 
your mail logs to see

what happens to the mail.
--Barry Finkel
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Something is hiding Subject/Sender for Hotmail/MSN recipients

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 9/5/2012 11:28 AM, ChuckPuckett wrote:

This just started, but it may be result of change in Settings. I use Mailman
list primarily as an announcement service (of theatrical events in the
area). I myself receive the emails, once in my Hotmail account, once in my
Gmail account. I send the announcements from  the Hotmail account.

In the last month or so, I've noticed that when I receive the email in my
Hotmail account, the Subject says (No Subject) and the sender is
(Unknown). The Gmail receipt is fine: subject and sender are perfectly
visible. I just ignored the problem until one of my patrons, using an MSN
(also Microsoft, so you can see where I'm heading with my suspicions)
reported the same phenomenon.

My settings are hopefully set up so that members can only receive the
postings, there is no provision for anyone else posting to the list (it's
not a discussion forum)

anonymous_list is set to NO
first_strip_reply_to set to YES
reply_goes_to_list is Explicit address (mine)
subject_prefix is [Theatre Happenings] (don't see how this would affect,
just mentioning settings that seem at least potentially related)

There may be other settings that are germane, happy to provide them. Or
maybe it's nothing in my Settings at all.

Any help is appreciated.

Chuck Puckett
http://www.puckettpublishing.com http://www.puckettpublishing.com
I don't want to steal the show. I only want to borrow it for a while.

I have never used Hotmail.  Is there a way in Hotmail to see the entire
source of the mail (i.e., the entire RFC 5321 headers)?  Maybe Hotmail
is misinterpreting the mail header lines or corrupting them. Thunderbird
allows viewing the headers, as does Comcast mail.  Those are the two with
which I am familiar.
--Barry Finkel
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Re: [Mailman-Users] add_members with password

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 8/28/2012 2:45 AM, Eric Smith wrote:

How do I add_members and allocate a password?

For members who do not wish to subscribe through the web
interface, what is the way to subscribe them so that they
have a password for subsequent login?

Thanks
Eric Smith

When I was managing a Mailman installation, we decided early on to
ignore passwords.  I had many lists where the subscriber base was
taken from our Human Resources Database, and the lists were updated
at least once per day.  We decided that subscribers did not need to know
their list password, and if they did need it, they could go to the list
web page and have it sent to them via e-mail.
--Barry Finkel
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate Messages

[Barry S, Finkel]

On 7/1/2012 2:12 PM, David Andrews wrote:
I am getting duplicate messages once a day, the 8:00 a.m. messages 
sent out by every list telling of what messages pending.  My users 
also get two copies of the password reminder once a month.  And ... 
not sure if it is related, but probably, I get two copies of a message 
each morning at 8:00 a.m. from the Mailman list telling of pending 
messages.  You can't get at this list to eliminate, so not sure what 
is going on.


Thanks in advance!

Dave



It sound like you have two crontab entries for some Mailman crons, or 
you have two

crontabs - one in the old style as root and one in the new style as mailman.
--Barry Finkel

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.15 final released.

[Barry S, Finkel]

On 6/16/2012 2:04 PM, David wrote:

How would I update from the version of Mailman 2.1.14 from Ubuntu's
repository (on Ubuntu 12.04)?

You can do what I did when I administered a Mailman system running on
Ubuntu - I generated my own package from an existing Ubuntu package and
the new SourceForge source.
--Barry Finkel

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Clearing Bounce Scores Globally

[Barry S, Finkel]

On 6/7/2012 10:23 AM, Terry Earley wrote:

We need to clear/reset bounce stats for Yahoo members on our list. we
modified Mark Sapiro's script at:
http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/reset_bounce.py
to modify only Yahoo email addresses, but it cleared only 2 that had been
bouncing. That squares with the comment at top:


Enable delivery for all bouncing members.


is there a way to make it clear bounce stats for all (in this case Yahoo)
to avoid these members from going over threshold? If not, we could run the
script after we get the admin notice that they are set to nomail for
bounces.


If I understand what you want, I believe you change:

if mlist.getDeliveryStatus(member) == MemberAdaptor.BYBOUNCE:
mlist.setDeliveryStatus(member, MemberAdaptor.ENABLED)
count += 1
by removing the if line and un-indenting the next two lines.  This will
set all addresses in the domain to ENABLED.  But, I believe, this will no do
exactly what you want, because you are not resetting the bounce score.
If a yahoo.com subscriber has a bounce score of 4, then setting

 MemberAdaptor,ENABLED

will be resetting the value to what it already is, and the next bounce
will (if the bounce score trigger is the default 5.0) will set BYBOUNCE.
I have not looked at the code to see if setting ENABLED also resets
the bounce score back to 0.
--Barry Finkel


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Re: [Mailman-Users] User Passwords - Mass Subscribe/Mass Change

[Barry S, Finkel]

On 5/29/2012 4:23 PM, Drew Tenenholz wrote:

All --

Sorry if this has been answered before, I don't have the time to go through the 
archives at the moment.

Mailman 2.1.9/Red Hat Linux

When migrating tens of thousands of users form an ancient Majordomo system to a 
new Mailman system, can I set the users' passwords when I upload their 
addresses from a text file?

Can I change the automatically created passwords?

We have a pretty slick PHP-driven site to manage subscriptions to about 10-15 
lists, and I always set the user's password for them, so they don't have to 
deal with it.  They like it, and I like it.  This works fine for individual 
subscription requests, as the email command I send on their behalf includes a 
unitary password.

Can I achieve the same result as I mass subscribe them?

-- Drew Tenenholz
--




When I was managing a Mailman installation, management (and I) concluded 
that we would
do nothing with passwords.  Users did not need passwords (except in the 
rare case they
wanted to view archives or change their mail delivery settings).  And if 
a user needed
his/her password, it was very easy to have Mailman send it.  I never had 
a problem with

Mailman users and passwords.
--Barry Finkel
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Ubuntu release of Mailman

[Barry S, Finkel]

On 5/11/2012 2:30 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

Lindsay Haisley wrote:


I just installed, and just as promptly un-installed mailman on Ubuntu
server 10.04.4 LTS.  The offered pacakge version of mailman for this
release, which I used, is 2.1.13-1.


The Ubuntu packages are based on Debian.



I have a few questions which perhaps someone could answer, if anyone
knows the thinking behind Canonical's (and the package maintainer's)
motives/reasons for what was done.

The most awkward change, for me, is the elimination altogether of the
mailman user.  Mailman native scripts and utilities apparently get run
as root, which as always brings up a whole kettle of security questions.


They don't eliminate the Mailman user. They just call it 'list' rather
than 'mailman'.



On top of that, I've written a script package to parse and automatically
unsubscribe list subscribers based on AOL's Email feedback reports for
all the lists I host, using, among other things, mailman's python
library and the withlist utility.  These scripts depend on the existence
of a non-privileged Mailman user account with a home dir
of /usr/lib/mailman.


I think 'list' satisfies this.



Yes, I could hack the scripts to make things work,
but I'm in the process of a major server move between Linux platforms

from different distributions and my time is budgeted.

Why was this done?


Ask Debian and see the FAQ athttp://wiki.list.org/x/OIDD.



It looks as if I'm going to have to install mailman from source on
Ubuntu.  I believe the Gentoo download, installed on my older servers,
hewed much more closely to the methods and design of the Mailman devs,
but I'm wondering what I'm missing here, or if the change was just due
to lazy package design on Canonical's part.


Don't blame Canonical for Debian's decisions.

Personally, I would always install from source on Debian/Ubuntu. Even
though I run Ubuntu on some of my machines, I am not a fan of The
Debian Way.

When I was running Mailman on an Ubuntu system, I looked at the Debian 
source

changes, and I decided that most were not documented.  I had no idea what
they did.  I decided to take the Ubuntu package and the SourceForge source
and create my own package.  It took me a while to do the initial package,
but after that it was easy.  I think that Mark has previously posted to
this list that many of the Debian patches are not needed.  There is one that
is wrong - it deletes a library that is sometimes needed.  If I needed
assistance on Mailman, I could post to this list and get a quick response.
--Barry Finkel
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Help with Bounce Processing

[Barry S, Finkel]

On 5/9/2012 7:17 AM, Futchko, Rose wrote:

Hello,

Yes, I meant 2.1.5 -- thank you.

This is the additional information:



mail...@list.informs.org  5/7/2012 9:58 AM

This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice:

 List:   Listname
 Member: email address
 Action: Subscription disabled.
 Reason: Excessive or fatal bounces.



The triggering bounce notice is attached below.

Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at
mail...@list.informs.org.

Received: from [64.56.46.224] (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by mail.informs.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id
q47Dm58n027853;
Mon, 7 May 2012 09:50:13 -0400
X-SenderID: Sendmail Sender-ID Filter v0.2.14 mail.informs.org
q47Dm58n027853
Authentication-Results: mail.informs.org
sender=transci-logistics-society-boun...@list.informs.org;
sender-id=neutral; spf=neutral
X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.2.1 mail.informs.org q47Dm58n027853
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=simple/simple; d=informs.org;
s=iol-mail;
t=1336398721; bh=nBoB7gLpyON0aTfYk/86AG+8qdc=;
h=Authentication-Results:Authentication-Results:From:To:Date:
 Message-ID:Accept-Language:acceptlanguage:Subject:Sender;
b=DDR/BS

5R1Rg1ZFSefHd9sxFAzBL//DzEFLlSzj8ugS0fU0YaIJBnBo9/0tKK8eAKthApq60EL

NAV4j5wAFhn+5wnJcTRvqfRCsGH4i0ZGjFK3E4cFNFQeylcGs3po6mK4o7ChJn+L9Rq
UqaqYnbP8XM+y7nNLIv53AphKDs0QVU=
Received: from mail.informs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by mail.informs.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q47C8hZH014190
(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256
verify=NO);
Mon, 7 May 2012 08:08:43 -0400
X-SenderID: Sendmail Sender-ID Filter v0.2.14 mail.informs.org
q47C8hZH014190
Authentication-Results: mail.informs.org from=elis...@umd.edu;
sender-id=neutral; spf=neutral
Received: (from root@localhost)
by mail.informs.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id q47C8hP3014187;
Mon, 7 May 2012 08:08:43 -0400
Received: from sdc-mx1.umd.edu (sdc-mx1.umd.edu [128.8.162.150])
by mail.informs.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id
q47C8f8l014174;
Mon, 7 May 2012 08:08:41 -0400
X-SenderID: Sendmail Sender-ID Filter v0.2.14 mail.informs.org
q47C8f8l014174
Authentication-Results: mail.informs.org from=elis...@umd.edu;
sender-id=neutral; spf=neutral
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result:
ArsCAKC6p0+ACAzogWdsb2JhbABEgkanDwGDEYZTAQEWJieCEAMFIAgBXQElAQEBCgoUBRAP
DCYBBAERAQgGDId0C7EkiQmQPGMEkBoBiS2PfQ
Received: from oitpmxht01.umd.edu (HELO exch.mail.umd.edu)
([128.8.12.232])
by sdc-mx1.umd.edu with ESMTP; 07 May 2012 08:08:40 -0400
Received: from oitmxcms01vi.AD.UMD.EDU ([169.254.1.122]) by
OITPMXHT01.AD.UMD.EDU ([128.8.12.232]) with mapi;
Mon, 7 May 2012 08:08:40 -0400
From: Elise Miller-Hookselis...@umd.edu
To: transci-logistics-sect...@list.informs.org
transci-logistics-sect...@list.informs.org,
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Thread-Topic: A great loss for the TSL Society
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Re: [Mailman-Users] How can I find out if a mailing list is used?

[Barry S, Finkel]

On 5/2/2012 2:16 PM, Ma, Yuan wrote:

Hi,


I am trying to find out the if a mailing list is used or not for all the 
mailing lists on our mailman server.
May I know how I can find out such information?

Thank you very much in advance.

Yuan
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If a list is archived, look at the date of the last archived posting.
If a list is not archived, you will have to look through Mailman logs,
web logs, and/or MTA logs to see if the list has been referenced.
If you think that a list is not used, you can contact the list owner.
--Barry Finkel
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Re: [Mailman-Users] how to get my letter is opened information without Delivery or read receipts are being checked

[Barry S, Finkel]

On 4/16/2012 7:26 AM, Bernd Petrovitsch wrote:

Generally, don't do it because just someone opened the mail, it
doesn't imply that s/he read it. And reading it doesn't imply the s/he
understands it.

IIRC, the mail RFCs state that the header line:

 Return-Receipt Requested:

is not standardized in its implementation.  The return receipt might be
sent

 when the mail is placed in the recipient's mailbox, or
 when the recipient opens the mail, or
 the recipient's Mail User Agent might ignore the line.

Thus, there is no way to know for sure that the recipient has read
the mail except, of course, to request that the recipient send a
reply.
--Barry Finkel
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Re: [Mailman-Users] A list is rejected by email server after migration

[Barry S, Finkel]

On 2/29/2012 11:21 AM, Frank Bell wrote:
All, within the last ten minutes my linux sysadmin discovered that the 
mailman-aliases file at /etc/mail did not for some reason contain one 
or two entries. (yes after migration I ran genaliases )


Solution was:
He brought the old mailman-aliases from the old server,
copied the missing entries into the new mailman-aliasesand
then ran newaliases

Thanks for the response!!


Thank you,
Frank Bell
Application Systems Admin
ISS
785-670-2334


1 Cor 15:10
By the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not 
in vain . . ..



On 2/29/2012 11:13 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

Frank Bell writes:

  After an upgrade last night all our lists can send email except one.
  It is rejected by the smtp server it says that address does not 
exist.

  The mailman page for the list exists, the mbox file exists
  Any thoughts on what went wrong and how to fix it? (just happens 
to be

  the iss-directors list)

While this is probably not the best place to get help for this problem
-- it's almost surely *not* a *Mailman* problem -- we will give it a
try.  But we need to know what exactly was upgraded and migrated, from
where to where?  Especially, which MTA(s) is (are) used at your site
by hosts involved in list post distribution.  And what address is
being rejected by what server.  (Feel free to post the entire
rejection message.  That's best.  If necessary you can redact
information that needs to be private, but that may make diagnosis
inaccurate.)

Specifically, if the SMTP server says the address doesn't exist, the
problem is in the MTA configuration.  The first thing to do is to
check for a typo in the aliases for the MTA.  The second is that some
MTAs (Exim, for one) support automatic aliases based on certain
conditions that can include the presence of config files and the like.
Perhaps a prerequisite for auto-aliasing is missing for that list.
There are other possibilities but those are the first ones off the top
of my head.

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If you ran genaliases, and the alias file in use was incomplete, then I 
assume
that genaliases is updating an alias file that is different than the 
alias file

that your MTA is using.

--Barry Finkel
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