[Mailman-Users] Taking a stab at Mailman on Mac OS X
Mailman v. 2.1.12 -> Mac OS 10.4.11 Tried to configure, and got the following results in config.log under Core Tests: configure:1714: checking for --with-python configure:1726: result: no configure:1733: checking for python configure:1751: found /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/bin/python configure:1764: result: /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/bin/python configure:1774: checking Python interpreter configure:1792: result: /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/bin/python configure:1796: checking Python version configure:1829: result: 2.6.4 configure:1833: checking Python's email package configure:1866: result: ok configure:1872: checking that Python has a working distutils configure:1921: result: yes configure:1969: checking for a BSD-compatible install configure:2025: result: /usr/bin/install -c configure:2036: checking whether make sets $(MAKE) configure:2061: result: no configure:2068: checking for true configure:2087: found /usr/bin/true configure:2100: result: /usr/bin/true configure:2110: checking for --without-gcc configure:2128: result: no configure:2189: checking for gcc configure:2219: result: no configure:2286: checking for cc configure:2333: result: no configure:2389: checking for cl.exe configure:2419: result: no configure:2448: error: no acceptable C compiler found in $PATH I didn't get very far. I thought Mailman only required Python? Is there anyone on this list who has successfully got Mailman running on Mac OS? -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Revisit to moderator aliases
Okay, thanks for the info. I'll go stealth for awhile. :) At 4:38 PM -0800 on 11/23/09, Mark Sapiro wrote: Bill Catambay wrote: How about changing the text? The text is built from the masthead.txt template. A list specific version of this template can be installed (see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/jYA9>), but not by *you* (unless you start running your own Mailman). This is not one of the 4 templates that can be edited through the list admin GUI, so the host would have to install it. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Revisit to moderator aliases
How about changing the text? At 4:21 PM -0800 on 11/23/09, Mark Sapiro wrote: Bill Catambay wrote: In any case, I did have one follow-up question (suggestion, actually, from a member of my list). In the digests, is there any setting that is available to *me* that will let me put the digest prolog text (e.g., "To subscribe..., When replying..., etc., etc.) at the bottom of the digest instead of the top? No. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Revisit to moderator aliases
Okay, today was quite the rollercoaster. I finally got an email from my ISP's Operations group stating that the foo-list-mod email was working, but when I tried, it didn't work. Bounced just like before. I called them up, and when I told them it was still bouncing, they insisted that it was working, and said there was nothing further they could do for me. At that point, I lost it, and despite a great track record they had for customer support, I laid into them. It was like Jekyll turning into Hyde. After stating that the mailing list was down for 4 days, and that it was still not working, along with a few other "choice" things I said about their level of support on this occasion, he said he would find a supervisor and find a resolution to the problem. An hour later, I got an email indicating that they had fixed the problem. Apparently, they created the foo-list-mod under an old listman sub-domain, rather than the "lists" sub-domain that everyone is using. Once they fixed that, and foo-list-mod started working. Given that they were ready to shut the door on this before even getting the alias fixed (not to mention that he added a blurb about how they probably should not have supported the request in the first place), I'm not hopeful that they are going to do anything with the customization request. What I think I'll do is just remove the MOD flags on everyone (since no one knows about the special mod email)(yet). I might start looking at installing Mailman on my OS X server (which is already running EIMS 3.3). In any case, I did have one follow-up question (suggestion, actually, from a member of my list). In the digests, is there any setting that is available to *me* that will let me put the digest prolog text (e.g., "To subscribe..., When replying..., etc., etc.) at the bottom of the digest instead of the top? As the member stated, they see this info constantly, but doesn't need to be read often, and it gets in the way with the front of the digest that they are interested in. Thanks, Bill -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
At 8:52 AM -0800 on 11/23/09, Mark Sapiro wrote: Bill Catambay wrote: If by "send a message", you mean email a message to the normal foo-list email address, then I'm back to square one (i.e., it will never reach anyone on the list because of the aliases being whacked). But, I hope you understand that your specific need/situation - email delivery to the list broken by the hosting provider, by incompletely implementing your requested change in the delivery of the normal list posting address and a new 'moderator posting' address on a Friday with insufficient testing and then leaving for the weekend - is so rare as to possibly never occur again. Very true. (especially after the support survey I just completed) -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
At 1:32 PM +0200 on 11/23/09, Gadi Evron wrote: Actually, I spoke of a possible _announcement_ feature, not an emergency feature. "Announcement" feature would be better, since it's not always going to be an "emergency" (and would still work in my situation). -- ,,, (o o) ===oOO==(_)==OOo===== Bill Catambay Santa Clara, CA bill.catam...@excaliburworld.com "Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen, and thinking what nobody has thought." .oooO Oooo. ( )==( )= \ () / \_) (_/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
At 11:05 AM -0500 on 11/23/09, Barry Warsaw wrote: The second request, which might also satisfy the first if it were implemented as a web service, seems to be for a way to send a message right now to all members of a list (or all lists?) regardless of digest and nomail settings. Actually, MM2 already implements this, though the UI is crufty. Send a message with an Urgent: header that contains the admin password and it's supposed to be sent as a direct message to all subscribers. If by "send a message", you mean email a message to the normal foo-list email address, then I'm back to square one (i.e., it will never reach anyone on the list because of the aliases being whacked). -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
At 7:56 AM -0800 on 11/23/09, Mark Sapiro wrote: I see two requests in this thread. The original appeared to be a request for a way to send a regular post to a list via the admin web interface, which would be useful in cases where for whatever reason, the list was working but email delivery to the list was not. The second request, which might also satisfy the first if it were implemented as a web service, seems to be for a way to send a message right now to all members of a list (or all lists?) regardless of digest and nomail settings. For reasons already mentioned by Stephen and others, I don't think the first is useful enough to justify, but the second is something we can consider for MM3. The second works for me. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
At 7:32 PM +0900 on 11/23/09, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Bill Catambay writes: > 1. Mailman aliases not working (like in my case) > 2. Unable to access my email, but have access to web (which is common > for those of us behind corporate firewalls) > 3. My email is broken, but my internet it still working > > However, even with these reasons, I wouldn't consider it a big deal, > especially if it's difficult to implement. After my list is working > again, I'll probably forget all about it. :) Note that I didn't deny use cases, I said it would be hard to implement usefully. For example, in the case that the mailman aliases aren't working, people *will* reply: "when do you expect it back up?" Because the mail system is currently not working, these will come through in a batch when things are fixed. What do to about them, especially since they're completely useless in this scenario? There is also the issue of what to put in From, and things like that. Will there be one-size-fits-all solution, or will the emergency poster have to set them appropriately? In the latter case, are there traps that the poster should avoid? Do the appropriate settings depend on other list settings (eg, reply-to munging)? Well, for what it's worth, in *my* situation, all posts come to me, which I am currently just holding, including "when do you expect it back up" but really more of "thanks for all the work you do" messages. This is one of the reasons I like to moderate the list this way, as I do often get direct emails that were intended for the list, and this way I can read them and appropriately file them (i.e., they won't be going out to the list once the list is working). As far as what to put in the FROM, I would say the name could be "Foo-list Emergency Notification", and in the FROM email would be the "foo-list" email (which, in my case, come to me), or perhaps just to the "foo-list-owner" email (which should work okay for other lists as well). -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
1. Mailman aliases not working (like in my case) 2. Unable to access my email, but have access to web (which is common for those of us behind corporate firewalls) 3. My email is broken, but my internet it still working However, even with these reasons, I wouldn't consider it a big deal, especially if it's difficult to implement. After my list is working again, I'll probably forget all about it. :) At 5:48 PM +0900 on 11/23/09, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Gadi Evron writes: > crappy providers aside, do you think this might be a useful > feature? I think that, as Mark alludes to, this feature would be harder to implement usefully than you'd think. It sounds easy, but remember, in a very large share cases where it would be useful *your mail system is already broken*. A trivial example: most of the cases where I've wanted something like it, the host was crashed, and simply not available. In other cases, it seems that Mailman is for some reason unable to send mail; why would it be more able to send mail received via HTTP than mail received by SMTP? -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
The weekend crew at my ISP are general tech support (i.e., they really only handle internet connection issues). My ISP does have an Operations group which usually are pretty knowledgeable, but I they simply aren't working on the weekend. For what it's worth, they are the best ISP I have had in 20 years (and I've been through a few). They are rated #1 in customer support in the Bay Area for a reason, and for that reason I would never find a new ISP. I'm still hopeful that they can get me through the Mailman customization I am requesting. When I used Autoshare listserver software, it ran on my home server (a Mac), and I never had to rely on anyone for support (handled everything myself). Unfortunately, that software has not been updated in over 10 years and is no longer supported (there isn't even a version that runs on Mac OS X, only a classic version). I noticed my ISP offered mailing lists (using Mailman), and I made the move this year to migrate all my lists. Bill At 2:35 PM -0600 on 11/22/09, Brad Knowles wrote: We can repeat the mantra -- Mailman was *NEVER* designed to be used in a Service Provider environment, especially not with multiple customers who may have very different needs, and most especially not when the Service Provider in question doesn't actually provide any of the necessary support to go along with the software. If I could shoot every single service provider who just threw up whatever kind of crap they thought they could make stick and make a point of avoiding all the necessary support, there would be many, many fewer crappy providers in this world. At the very least, you should find a different provider where they actually give you the support you require. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
Given my current situation (as rare as this situation may be), I have come to realize that an emergency broadcast feature would be an indispensable tool to have right now. Since my host made the alias change on my mailing list, but did not create the MX record for the new email, it is currently impossible to post to our mailing list via email. I can't even tell people why the list isn't working. With an emergency broadcast feature on the website (a way to send a message to the list using the Mailman mailing list admin page), I could at least get word to everyone that the mailing list will be down until Monday. Bill -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Revisit to moderator aliases
At 7:48 PM -0800 on 11/17/09, Mark Sapiro wrote:
I think the aliases together with the modified Moderate handler for
your list will be your DREAM SOLUTION. And this has the advantage that
while it is some work for the host to set up, it affects only your
list so thay can't say no solely on the grounds that it may have
unintended consequences for other customers.
Oh, and I forgot to ask about the "modified Moderate handler"
(basically because I just now noticed - when my head doesn't
immediately pick up on an idea, I skim past it). Since I didn't
actually mention anything about modifying a handler in my request to
my host, am I still missing a critical piece of the puzzle? I guess
when the foo-list-mod email starts to work, it's still going to
result in the same behavior as before... in that it will see the FROM
address first, which will be a member with the mod flag set, and hold
the post for approval.
*sigh* LOL *sigh*
So I need to ask them to install a custom handler for the foo-list
(my) mailing list (and God willing, they'll understand what that
means). I'll tell them to change:
def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
if msgdata.get('approved') or msgdata.get('fromusenet'):
return
# First of all, is the poster a member or not?
for sender in msg.get_senders():
if mlist.isMember(sender):
break
else:
sender = None
to:
def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
if msgdata.get('approved') or msgdata.get('fromusenet'):
return
# First of all, is the poster a member or not?
for sender in msg.get_senders(headers=(None,)):
if mlist.isMember(sender):
break
else:
sender = None
(i think just checking envelope sender is all I need since I'm the
only one who will know about this email)(well, me and everyone on
this mailing list ;))
I hope someone there knows how to do this, otherwise this has all been in vain.
Bill
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Revisit to moderator aliases
Looks like I'm half-way there unfortunately, half-way means "one step back" before the "two steps forward". I got my ISP to create the aliases: foo-list: "|/opt/mailman/mail/mailman owner foo-list" foo-list-mod: "|/opt/mailman/mail/mailman post foo-list" It would appear that there is one more thing they need to do, because when I try to send an email to the foo-list-mod address, I get a hard bounce: - The following addresses had permanent fatal errors - (reason: 550 5.1.1 ... No such user here) I just got off the phone with their evening tech support person, but he doesn't have a clue. He confirmed that the aliases were set up, but he doesn't know what else to do to complete the task so that foo-list-mod email is an actual working email address (and I don't know what to tell him so that he would know what to do). The reason why I've gone backwards is because the first alias change *is* working, which means that there is currently no email address which is actually posting to the list. Doh! The list is dead, Jim. (the evening tech guy said he didn't have authority to update aliases for mailing lists, so he couldn't back out the change) Here's a couple of questions while I sit idly by as posts to the mailing list build up in my inbox: 1. Anyone know the missing ingredient (in tech terms) that might clue in the "night watchman" on what needs to be done to make foo-list-mod work? 2. Is there anyway to get posts posted to a mailing list when there is no email address which does it? I have high hopes that *eventually* this mailing list will get to where I need it to be, but given that the weekend is upon us, I'm currently looking for something to get the list working in the meantime. Thanks, Bill At 7:48 PM -0800 on 11/17/09, Mark Sapiro wrote: I think the aliases together with the modified Moderate handler for your list will be your DREAM SOLUTION. And this has the advantage that while it is some work for the host to set up, it affects only your list so thay can't say no solely on the grounds that it may have unintended consequences for other customers. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Revisit to moderator aliases
Hi Steve, et al, Awhile back I asked some questions about managing my Mailman list such that it worked like it did back on Autoshare (an old Mac OS 9 listserver). I received some good advice, and have made some great progress in attaining most of my goals. There were still some unresolved issues, but I took a break to let others on the list tackle their problems, and also to let myself digest (no pun intended) the situation for awhile. To recap, I have a mailing list of about 300 members. The reply-to is currently customized to go to one of my personal email addresses (versus the mailmon default address of ). When I receive the posts, I determine whether the post is appropriate for the list, and if needed, edit out extraneous text (such as excessive quoted material and/or excessive signature lines) as well as profanity or classified information that doesn't belong on the list. I then use Eudora's "redirect" function (keeps headers in tact) to redirect the moderated post to foo-l...@lists.sonic.net. The two outstanding issues are: 1. After I do the redirect to foo-l...@lists.sonic.net, the listserver still sends the moderation email back to me, requiring me to approve of the post (despite the fact that the envelope sender is from the list owner/moderator). When the list traffic is slow, this isn't a big issue, but when topics get hot, this becomes a major headache (receive, read, modify, send, receive again, approve). 2. Replies to digest still automatically go to foo-l...@lists.sonic.net instead of to the customized reply-to address (and there does not appear to be any way to change that). This becomes a mess because now I have a mix of non-moderated posts and moderated posts in the same place, so I have to be careful about which ones I approve. DREAM SOLUTION: I'm looking for a solution that would resolve both these issues. I imagine a solution where I set the reply-to address to foo-l...@lists.sonic.net, but somehow get the list to send those posts to me intact unmodified (versus getting the Mailman generated moderator emails with all the extraneous stuff and extra headers). Then I perform any necessary modifications, and redirect to the list, with the original heads intact, but have the list recognize the envelope sender and therefore post to the list (rather than bounce back to the moderator). I don't know if the first part of this solution is possible. However, I believe I've already received information that tells me that the 2nd part is not possible because Mailman does not have a "check the envelope sender first" option. Experimentation has shown me that if I send a post to the list, and the FROM sender is not a member, but the envelope sender the moderator (aka, me), it passes it through to the list. However, if the FROM sender is a member (but mod flag turned on), then Mailman holds the post for moderator approval regardless of what the envelope sender is. The FROM sender will always be a member of the list, and I want to keep the FROM sender intact; hence, unless I'm the member posting, it will always be held for moderation. In one of the earlier replies, Steve suggested the following aliases: foo-list: modera...@example.com foo-list-moderated: | mailman post foo-list This suggestion sounds a bit like the first part of my "dream" solution above, where I let people post to the list address (instead of the customized reply-to address). The alias would then route the post directly to me rather than to Mailman. Putting aside, for now, how I get this alias set up, I'm still stuck on how I would then get the email posted to the mailing list (since if I send it to the list address, it will just come back to me again). Perhaps that is where the foo-list-moderated alias comes into play? Taking a stab at it, I should ask my ISP to do the following: 1. Set an alias for foo-l...@lists.sonic.net to go to modera...@example.com (my email). 2. Set an alias for foo-list-modera...@lists.sonic.net to go to "| mailman post foo-list". Then my steps for moderating the list would be: Receive email at modera...@example.com (originally posted to foo-l...@lists.sonic.net), perform edits as necessary, then redirect the post to foo-list-modera...@lists.sonic.net (6 steps down to 3 steps). I did a test email to foo-list-modera...@lists.sonic.net, and it was returned as "no such user", so I'm guessing that I'm actually creating a new email alias as part of this solution. Does it sound like I understand the suggestion correctly? And if so, is it the solution that you think I am after? I just want to make sure I'm on the right track before I start poking my ISP for help. THANKS!! Bill -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.li
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman - a few questions
At 6:54 AM -0700 on 8/14/09, Mark Sapiro wrote: You can do this but it will require the cooperation of the Mailman host. The cooperation part is to set SENDER_HEADERS = (None, 'from', 'reply-to', 'sender') in mm_cfg.py. Putting None first will check the envelope sender before the From: header. This suggestion (posted several months ago) would solve my issue of having to approve posts that I've already sent to the list (with myself as the envelope sender). Of course, if Steve's solution works (and is what I think it is), then it would resolve both of my issues (6 step approval process, and reply-to issue on digests). But as a fallback, this solution sounds like it would still change my 6 step process down to 3 steps. Just for clarity, who exactly would perform the above change? My ISP who hosts Mailman? Can you give me the technically correct language I could use to suggest it to them? (i.e., so that they know exactly what to do) Thanks, Bill -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman - a few questions
At 12:21 PM -0500 on 8/15/09, Shop at \" Just Brits \" wrote: So IMHO Bill needs to tell The List not only the version of MM BUT the source of install so that everybody is "playing with a FULL deck of cards". Right-:) ??? I don't remember if I answered this question before or not, but just to cover all the bases: lists.sonic.net is running Mailman v2.1.11 An overview of Mailman on this server can be found at: http://lists.sonic.net/mailman/listinfo I'm also posting a note to mail...@lists.sonic.net to find out about the source. Bill -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] won't let me edit the HTML
I have an update on this. I was trying to pinpoint exactly what "change" caused this, and as I deleted changes, starting with the link, I still kept getting the same rejection. Then I just went to edit the page, and made no changes at all, clicked on Submit Changes, and it *still* gave me the rejection. Am I missing something? Bill I am trying to customize our Options page, and I want to add links to our main website within the page (really the only changes I am making). When I try to save, I get: "The page you saved contains suspicious HTML that could potentially expose your users to cross-site scripting attacks. This change has therefore been rejected. If you still want to make these changes, you must have shell access to your Mailman server." Cross-site scripting attacks from a simple link? I'm feeling the weight of big brother here. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
[Mailman-Users] won't let me edit the HTML
I am trying to customize our Options page, and I want to add links to our main website within the page (really the only changes I am making). When I try to save, I get: "The page you saved contains suspicious HTML that could potentially expose your users to cross-site scripting attacks. This change has therefore been rejected. If you still want to make these changes, you must have shell access to your Mailman server." Cross-site scripting attacks from a simple link? I'm feeling the weight of big brother here. The error page includes a link to FAQ 4.48, which displays: Below you will find links to our Frequently Asked Questions. There are hundreds of entries, so they're organized into several sections: click on each section to view the questions for that section, or use the "View in Hierarchy" link to see them all listed in a tree. (you will need to click on the + signs to expand the tree and see all questions) You may also wish to make use of the site search (in the top right hand corner) to find a particular error message or problem. Labels extract, emails Children (6) Hide Children | View in Hierarchy 1 Introduction - What is GNU Mailman? 2 Help for mailing list members 3 List administrator tasks 4 Site administrator tasks 5 Downloading and installing Mailman 6 Integration issues (with mail or web servers) Nothing obvious here on how to resolve this issue. Anybody have the short and skinny solution for getting around this? Thanks, Bill -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman - a few questions
At 1:41 AM +0900 on 8/14/09, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > >This can be done by setting up aliases as follows (pseudo-syntax, your > >mileage will vary): > > > >foo-list: modera...@example.com > >foo-list-moderated: | mailman post foo-list > > > >That requires modifying the mailman aliases in the MTA manually, > >though. > > This went over my head. What does "MTA manually" mean? Does that > mean it cannot be done with the web interface? Do I need to contact > my ISP, or is there something I can do using my shell account access? Working with the mail transfer agent (MTA == Postfix IIRC) cannot be done through Mailman's web interface. [If you have something like cPanel it might be possible.] To change aliases in the MTA you would need not just shell access, but root access. You may need help from your ISP in that case. It does sound like something requiring my ISP involvement. I'm sure they won't mind if it's a one-time setup and they understand what I'm requesting. The thing is that I don't really understand what I'd be requesting, or why. foo-list is the name of my mailing list, and modera...@example.com would be the moderator's email (aka, my email address). I'm asking them to create an alias for the list name? Or should that be the full list email address (e.g., foo-l...@lists.sonic.net) ? What is "foo-list-moderated"? I'm guessing "| mailman post foo-list" is some command line syntax that any server running Mailman would understand. I can pretend to understand that (since my ISP tech support will probably understand it). This suggestion was in response to my leading paragraph, not any of my 4 issues,so I'm not really sure what this buys if I were to get my ISP to do it. Was this a suggestion for how to do the redirection? (in which case, I'm already good, as I already use my email client for redirection) > It seems that if you change the reply-to to an explicit address, that > both digest and non-digest members should have the same reply-to. Sounds plausible but these things are complex. As I say, somebody more familiar with the detail needs to answer this one. Maybe there was an assumption made that people generally don't click reply to a digest (since the subject would be wrong, and the quoted text would be excessive). It does happen. For some, it's easier to click reply and change the subject and then trim the quoted text (there are a few times when they forget to do the subject change and/or trimming, but those would be rejected anyway). All of these approaches suffer from the possibility that your moderation password could theoretically be "sniffed" on the net unless your moderator uses an encrypted channel to send mail to the list host. The "Moderator is Enveloper Sender" approach is also vulnerable, since it is easy (if you have the right tools such as a Linux workstation, or certain "unofficial" MUAs) to spoof the envelope sender. I don't want to alarm you, just to give you some information you need to compare these approaches. I tried this once, and I felt really really uncomfortable with it. I kept looking at the To: to make sure I wasn't sending it to someone. The admin email says to click reply, but when I click reply, it addresses it to the list owner (e.g., foo-list-ow...@lists.sonic.net), so it just comes back to me. I'm not sure where it was supposed to go, but I'm also not sure I would feel comfortable with this method anyway. I can picture me doing this some night when I'm running on 2 brain cells, and sending the list password to some random email. > > > 4. Lastly, the web archives created by Autoshare automatically > > > created clickable HTML links for all HTML URL's in posts. > > > >I don't think Pipermail (the default archiver bundled with Mailman) > >can do it at all, > > Interestingly, the archives for *this* mailing list appears to have > some decent formatted archives. Does this list use MHonArc? Apparently I was totally wrong. I thought Pipermail only did that for its own links (next message, etc), but it does seem to do it for all URLs. In particular, this list does use pipermail. Okay, this is bizarre. I just went to our web archives, and they now have the formatted "previous" and "next" links, as well as HTML links within the body. I swear the other day I was staring at plain text. The footer has changed to "This archive was generated by Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition)." I looked at the footer before, and it was completely different (no mention of Pipermail). [looks again] Okay, I think I know what happened. I clicked on the "Gzip'd Text" link, and when you do that, it shows the archives in plain text. It seems kind of obvious now. I guess that was one of those nights I was running on minimum brain cells. Bill -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/m
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman - a few questions
At 11:40 AM +0900 on 8/14/09, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Mark Sapiro writes: > Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > >Bill Catambay writes: > > > > > My ISP is using Mailman 2.1.11. Is that the latest? I'm guessing > > > no, since it is currently NOT recognizing the envelope sender. This > > > sounds like one that I'll need to contact my ISP for. > >Unfortunately, it looks like things don't work as you need them to, NB. "As he needs them to" means that the *list moderator* be recognized as the *envelope sender*, and the message be approved in that case. Correct. > It's somewhat confusing and complicated, but it hasn't changed in a > long time. And won't work for the OP, since envelope sender is always lowest priority in the checks. Just to summarize, since the OP characterizes himself as a "newbie". Bottom line, a new feature is needed for his use case. Just to clarify, I am a "newbie" with regards to Mailman. I've been moderating mailing lists for 15 years or so. This is sounding more and more like a feature that isn't currently supported. Bill -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman - a few questions
At 2:12 PM +0900 on 8/14/09, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Mark Sapiro writes: > Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > >NB. "As he needs them to" means that the *list moderator* be > >recognized as the *envelope sender*, and the message be approved in > >that case. > >Bottom line, a new feature is needed for his use case. > I don't think so. Moderate.py calls the Message.get_senders() method to > get *all* the addresses from the From: header, envelope sender, > Reply-To: header and Sender: header. If any of those addresses is a > member, the post is from a member. The point is that the OP's use-case is to make a decision based on envelope sender == moderator, while preserving originator headers. A member check is not what he wants. Correct. The From: header should always be a member of the list (but a member whose "mod" flag is turned off). The envelope sender would be me, the moderator. I have noticed that about 10 to 20 percent of posts I redirect to the list (with me as the envelope sender) are actually getting posted without me having to approve them. I'm not sure why that is. The majority, however, are being held for approval. What I'm really looking for is something to tell Mailman to look at envelope sender first, and if it's a privileged member (aka, "mod" is true), immediately deliver. SIDE NOTE: I've also noticed a few posts recently (total of 3) that triggered an admin email asking for approval, but when I went to the web admin interface, there was nothing in the pending queue. I actually had to send the posts a 2nd time. This is a completely different issue, of course, but I thought I'd mention it in case it's a known issue. Bill PS: Yes, I realize that those who understand their email clients and understand how the list works would be able to spoof the envelope sender if they wanted to, but this is not a realistic concern. In 15 years of moderating this list, no one has ever done that. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman - a few questions
At 1:55 PM +0900 on 8/12/09, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: This can be done by setting up aliases as follows (pseudo-syntax, your mileage will vary): foo-list: modera...@example.com foo-list-moderated: | mailman post foo-list That requires modifying the mailman aliases in the MTA manually, though. And the moderator needs to know to send moderated posts to foo-list-moderated, and will need software capable of editing and resending without changing headers that the moderator doesn't want changed. This went over my head. What does "MTA manually" mean? Does that mean it cannot be done with the web interface? Do I need to contact my ISP, or is there something I can do using my shell account access? > Autoshare recognized the envelope sender and passed the post > through to the list immediately. Recent mailman recognizes envelope sender for the "authorized posters". You might want to screen out cases where the From spoofs the moderator using the spam filters because the test is "from OR sender OR envelope sender IS IN authorized-senders". My ISP is using Mailman 2.1.11. Is that the latest? I'm guessing no, since it is currently NOT recognizing the envelope sender. This sounds like one that I'll need to contact my ISP for. > The problems I'm having are as follows: > > 1. The reply-to does not seem to work for digest members. I'll leave that to someone more familiar with the code. It seems that if you change the reply-to to an explicit address, that both digest and non-digest members should have the same reply-to. Is this an oversight? Or perhaps this is something fixed in the latest version of Mailman? > 2. For members whose email clients use buttons based upon email > headers - specifically, list-id - they click on Reply to List and it > goes to the wrong place. I would either like to change the list-id > value, or remove it entirely. Is there a way to do that? IMO it is preferable to reroute the workflow using aliases as described above. That will fix your digest problem too. Hoping for some clarification on that, and I'd love to give it a try. That said, the option you need is on the admin page, near the bottom. Try disabling inclusion of the "List-Post" header. If that doesn't work, disable inclusion of the "RFC 2369" headers, too. I did both. It appears to have fixed the problem (not sure which action, if not both, resolved it). > 3. I would like the Mailman list to recognize the envelope sender >to authorize immediate distribution of the post. Yes, this is possible. There's a FAQ on this. Somebody else will give details shortly, I suppose. Above you mentioned that it's already supported in the latest Mailman. Is the solution you recommend here something that will work in the version 2.1.11? In either case, which FAQ discusses it? I've seen a few, but have yet to find something about envelope sender. A second option here is to use the Approved: header or pseudo-header. Many MUAs can be set to add these automatically, YMMV. Could you elaborate on this? I don't know how to use Approved: header or pseudo-header (not sure what that means). I also don't know what MUA stands for (sorry if I sound like a newbie... I guess I am). > 4. Lastly, the web archives created by Autoshare automatically > created clickable HTML links for all HTML URL's in posts. The > Mailman archives are all unclickable plain text URL's. Note, I want > the list to remain a plain text list, as it was on Autoshare, but I'd > still like Mailman to build HTML code to make the links active in the > web archive. Is there a way to do this? I don't think Pipermail (the default archiver bundled with Mailman) can do it at all, but it is possible to use external archivers such as MHonArc. This requires substantial effort and cooperation from the list host admins, though. There are also third-party archiving services. Again, see the FAQ. Interestingly, the archives for *this* mailing list appears to have some decent formatted archives. Does this list use MHonArc? Thanks for your response. I really appreciate any further information I can get. I'd like to accomplish as much as I can before going back to sonic.net. Bill -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
