Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman queues

[Mark Sapiro]

On 3/16/20 1:20 PM, k...@keldix.com wrote:
> I have a problem with removing failing subscription requests
> eg from a bogus requester. I thought I could remove the request
> from a queue somewhere but cannot find it.
> the subscription requests keep recurring, over 1000 in my maillog -postfix


The requests waiting user confirmation are in the file
lists/LIST_NAME/pending.pck. Requests waiting moderator action are in
the file lists/LIST_NAME/requests.pck.

There are scripts at  (mirrored at
) which can help with this. In
particular, "erase" and "list_requests". Also, the withlist script
"discard_subs.py".

More recent Mailman has defenses against robotic web subscribes, but
none are in 2.1.9.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.30rc1 released

[Mark Sapiro]

Over a month ago, I posted the following announcement particularly
asking for i18n updates prior to the final release of Mailman 2.1.

To date I have only received updates for the Japanese translation.

If you can help update any of the other translations, please submit
changes as indicated below.


On 1/11/20 7:09 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> I am pleased to announce the release of Mailman 2.1.30rc1.
> 
> Python 2.6 is the minimum supported, but Python 2.7 is strongly recommended.
> 
> This is a routine bug fix release with a few new features. See the
> attached README.txt for details.
> 
> Mailman 2.1.30 will be the last release of the Mailman 2.1 branch from
> the GNU Mailman project. It contains some new strings which are
> untranslated in most of the i18n translations. If you can help update
> any of the translations, please contribute your changes.
> 
> Changes can be submitted via a bzr merge proposal on Launchpad or by
> sending an updated mailman.po file and or templates directly to me. This
> will be the last chance to get i18n updates into a release.
> 
> Mailman is free software for managing email mailing lists and
> e-newsletters. Mailman is used for all the python.org and
> SourceForge.net mailing lists, as well as at hundreds of other sites.
> 
> For more information, please see our web site at one of:
> 
> http://www.list.org
> https://www.gnu.org/software/mailman
> http://mailman.sourceforge.net/
> 
> Mailman 2.1.30rc1 can be downloaded from
> 
> https://launchpad.net/mailman/2.1/
> https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mailman/
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/mailman/


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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.1.18 for RHEL 5

[Mark Sapiro]

On 2/17/20 2:27 AM, Dennis Putnam wrote:

> It turns out that the only version available for RHEL 7 is 2.1.12.
> However, the mailman documentation indicates that also has DMARC
> mitigation.


What documentation? I assume Red Hat's. In any case, what you will have,
as others have said, is 2.1.12 with who knows what later features and
fixes backported by Red Hat to make what they call 2.1.12-xx.yy, and if
you run into trouble, we (this list) my not be able to help.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.1.18 for RHEL 5

[dmaziuk via Mailman-Users]

On 2/17/2020 11:24 AM, Lindsay Haisley (linode) wrote:





This is common practice for all major distributions. The only way to keep up 
with upstream versions is to install from same from the git-go. This has its 
own pitfalls, but I do this for Mailman and have never had a problem.


I'm still hoping to some day get a round tuit for trying to fit MM2 in a 
docker container. You know exactly what codebase you have from the 
git-go, and if the new one does not cut it, the good old container is 
still there to fall back to.


The clue is strong with docker people.

D
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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.1.18 for RHEL 5

[Lindsay Haisley (linode)]

On Feb 17, 2020, at 10:45 AM, Phil Stracchino  wrote:
> 
>> On 2020-02-17 10:56, Bill Cole wrote:
>> RedHat has a policy of nailing down nominal versions of software with 
>> each major RHEL release and then backporting whatever fixes they deem 
>> important into their packages over the life of the major release, adding 
>> their own subordinate versioning. 

> An unfortunate side effect of this is that it makes it very difficult to
> support some software on Red Hat because you don't know for sure what
> codebase you're actually running, except that it's probably neither fish
> nor fowl nor good red meat.

This is common practice for all major distributions. The only way to keep up 
with upstream versions is to install from same from the git-go. This has its 
own pitfalls, but I do this for Mailman and have never had a problem.

Sent from my iPhone


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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.1.18 for RHEL 5

[Phil Stracchino]

On 2020-02-17 10:56, Bill Cole wrote:
> RedHat has a policy of nailing down nominal versions of software with 
> each major RHEL release and then backporting whatever fixes they deem 
> important into their packages over the life of the major release, adding 
> their own subordinate versioning. I know from working on the 
> SpamAssassin security team that RH is particularly attentive to security 
> issues and other major bugfixes.


An unfortunate side effect of this is that it makes it very difficult to
support some software on Red Hat because you don't know for sure what
codebase you're actually running, except that it's probably neither fish
nor fowl nor good red meat.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.1.18 for RHEL 5

[Bill Cole]

On 17 Feb 2020, at 5:27, Dennis Putnam wrote:


On 2/16/2020 11:45 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

Dennis Putnam writes:

Since migrating to mailman 3 on the latest RHEL is going to take 
some

time, I need an interim solution to DMARC mitigation. I understand
version 2.1.18


Why 2.1.18?  Do you have that already installed?  It's already pretty
old, and many of the fixes still being made are security-related.

It turns out that the only version available for RHEL 7 is 2.1.12.
However, the mailman documentation indicates that also has DMARC
mitigation. Anyway, I am giving it a try. Seems silly that RHEL
repositories are so far behind the curve.


RedHat has a policy of nailing down nominal versions of software with 
each major RHEL release and then backporting whatever fixes they deem 
important into their packages over the life of the major release, adding 
their own subordinate versioning. I know from working on the 
SpamAssassin security team that RH is particularly attentive to security 
issues and other major bugfixes.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.1.18 for RHEL 5

[Dennis Putnam]

On 2/16/2020 11:45 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Dennis Putnam writes:
>
>  > Since migrating to mailman 3 on the latest RHEL is going to take some
>  > time, I need an interim solution to DMARC mitigation. I understand
>  > version 2.1.18
>
> Why 2.1.18?  Do you have that already installed?  It's already pretty
> old, and many of the fixes still being made are security-related.
It turns out that the only version available for RHEL 7 is 2.1.12.
However, the mailman documentation indicates that also has DMARC
mitigation. Anyway, I am giving it a try. Seems silly that RHEL
repositories are so far behind the curve.
>
>  > will do what I need, at least until I can finish the
>  > migration. However, I have been unable to find a repository or rpm
>  > for that version for RHEL 5. Can someone help me out with that?
>
> The Red Hat or Fedora lists would be a much better place to ask.
> We're not likely to know, and we can't provide much support except
> generic comments since we're generally not using packaged versions of
> Mailman, even for testing.  We just don't have the time.
>
> Steve




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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on TMDHosting.com

[Mark Sapiro]

On 2/1/20 9:54 AM, Tim H wrote:
>
> Top posting my reply, hope this is OK.  Oddly, my host included a
> Terminal window! I have never seen that before.

And it appears from the # prompt in that window that you have root 
access to the server. This seems to say to me that the host doesn't have 
much of a clue at all about what they are doing.



> Attached are screen
> shots of some ls -l results.
>
> Mark are these normal for a mailman installation?

Your screenshots were removed by the list's content filtering, but I got 
them in off-list mail. The only interesting one is


# ls -l /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman

'x 2 mailman mailman  22 Nov 11 01:37 bin
'x 2 mailman mailman 170 Nov 11 01:37 cgi-bin
'x 2 mailman mailman  21 Nov 11 01:37 mail

Note, this would be much better just copied and pasted into your email 
rather than attached as a screenshot.


Yes, these are normal, but there is much more missing. If this were 
actually a working Mailman installation there would also be archives, 
cron, data, icons, lists, locks, logs, Mailman, messages, pythonlib, 
qfiles, scripts, spam and tests directories in addition to the bin, 
cgi-bin and mail directories that are there.


So basically, Mailman is not really installed in any functional way.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on TMDHosting.com

[Brian Carpenter]

On 1/31/20 12:03 AM, Tim H via Mailman-Users wrote:

  I just moved a cluster of domains to TMDHosting.com
I had two Mailman mailing lists on the old service.  I made a gziped tarball of 
the entire account using the usual tool. Staff at TMD brought it over and in 
minutes all my files were in place.
But. They do not have Mailman in cPanel. They do not have Mailman available in 
Softalicious.  This is a shared hosting type of account.  I don't have root 
access to the server.
Their suggestion was to create an email address the same as the mailing list 
address, then use that to set up BCC to a group of contacts in Roundcube.
So I tried to create mymailingl...@mydomain.com
I could not create the address. Instead I got an error message saying a mailing 
list with that address already exists.
But the address does not show up in the list of email addresses in cPanel, so, 
I cannot delete it.
I didn't think about the Mailman mailing lists when I set up to do the 
transfer.  I took the time to save the member lists and some of the archives, 
but I should have gone ahead and deleted the lists. I did not suspect that the 
new service would not have Mailman.  Every web service provider I've been with 
in years and years has had Mailman.
So - what now?  Anyone on TMDHosting?  Have you been where I just landed?
Thanks.
Tim
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Hi Tim,

Screenshots of what you are seeing would be helpful. Are you sure 
Mailman is not accessible via cPanel? They are under Mailing Lists in 
the Email section of cPanel. Mailing lists and email accounts are 
treated as separate services on a cPanel server. Also Mailman is not 
available via Softaculous.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on TMDHosting.com

[Mark Sapiro]

On 1/30/20 9:03 PM, Tim H via Mailman-Users wrote:

  I just moved a cluster of domains to TMDHosting.com
I had two Mailman mailing lists on the old service.  I made a gziped tarball of 
the entire account using the usual tool. Staff at TMD brought it over and in 
minutes all my files were in place.
But. They do not have Mailman in cPanel.



As far as I know, every cPanel installation has Mailman 2.1.

The issue may be that they just dropped your files into somewhere in 
/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman. You can't just do that. cPanel's 
Mailman is different enough that the config.pck files aren't directly 
compatible and the file names and or locations maybe different to.


See .

Also, there are others on this list who are much more knowledgeable 
about cPanel Mailman than I am, and they may chime in.




So I tried to create mymailingl...@mydomain.com
I could not create the address. Instead I got an error message saying a mailing 
list with that address already exists.


Which indicates cPanel is aware of it.



But the address does not show up in the list of email addresses in cPanel, so, 
I cannot delete it.



You need advice from someone who knows more about Mailman in cPanel than 
I do.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 191, Issue 3

[Allan Hansen]

Thanks again, Mark!
My responses below.

> On 1/4/20 5:47 PM, Allan Hansen wrote:
>> 
>> a. The server was set up with the wrong domain name (our fault), so I had to 
>> add the ‘correct’ one. I had seen the command ‘Add Domain’ in
>> the UI and thought that would do it, but Brian kindly sent me a list of 
>> additional instructions, which we then implemented. That made it possible to 
>> create a list in the new domain, subscribe people and post messages. 
>> However, messages are not archived. What extra step is needed to enable 
>> archiving? 
> 
> 
> What are the setytings in Postorius -> Settings -> Archiving?

Archive policy: Private archives
Archive archivers: hyperkitty, prototype
> 
> 
>> b. When go to the server using the new domain (both before and after logging 
>> in), I see not just the lists I created in the new domain, but the lists 
>> created in the old domain. These lists of lists are domain specific and 
>> should not be listed together. That’s just IMHO, but not serious, as I will 
>> soon get rid of anything in the old domain. So feel free to ignore this one 
>> if this is intended, which I could see might be the case.
> 
> 
> Set
> 
> FILTER_VHOST = True
> 
> in settings_local.py
> 

Yes, Brian told me to do the same. This is the what I wrote back:

hansen@rccrmail:/opt/mailman/mm$ sudo vi settings.py

Edited the setting to:
# Only display mailing-lists from the same virtual host as the webserver
FILTER_VHOST = True

Then Brian told me to restart qcluster:
hansen@rccrmail:/opt/mailman/mm$ sudo systemctl restart qcluster

I then logged in, but the same lists are showing. It either takes the system a 
long time to reset or it has ignored the 
setting.
Just tried it again, and the lists are all showing. Do I need to manually 
recompile the file?

> 
>> c. I then moved on to the templates and added a template for the message 
>> text to send to new subscribers. That resulted in the following error 
>> message when I went in as moderator to approve of a new subscription:
>> 
>> Something went wrong
>> Mailman REST API not available. Please start Mailman core.
> 
> 
> Postorius is unable to access core's REST API. Is Mailman running?

Well, I was able to post to the lists, so I assume it is. Listing at processes, 
I see a bunch of postgres, python3, nginx, django-adminp but
nothing explicitly with a ‘mailman’ string.

> If so, what's in /opt/mailman/mm/var/logs/mailmansuite.log or whatever it's
> called - defined as `filename` in the `file` handler in the LOGGING
> definition in settings(_local).py.

hansen@rccrmail:/opt/mailman/mm/logs$ tail -f mailmansuite.log
return Site.objects.get_current(request)
  File 
"/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.7/site-packages/django/contrib/sites/models.py",
 line 60, in get_current
return self._get_site_by_request(request)
  File 
"/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.7/site-packages/django/contrib/sites/models.py",
 line 45, in _get_site_by_request
SITE_CACHE[domain] = self.get(domain__iexact=domain)
  File 
"/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.7/site-packages/django/db/models/manager.py", 
line 82, in manager_method
return getattr(self.get_queryset(), name)(*args, **kwargs)
  File 
"/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.7/site-packages/django/db/models/query.py", 
line 408, in get
self.model._meta.object_name
django.contrib.sites.models.Site.DoesNotExist: Site matching query does not 
exist.

[ABH] At this point I click to accept a subsription request:

ERROR 2020-01-06 07:32:41,439 699 postorius.middleware Mailman REST API not 
available
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File 
"/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.7/site-packages/urllib3/connectionpool.py", 
line 672, in urlopen
chunked=chunked,
  File 
"/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.7/site-packages/urllib3/connectionpool.py", 
line 421, in _make_request
six.raise_from(e, None)
  File "", line 3, in raise_from
  File 
"/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.7/site-packages/urllib3/connectionpool.py", 
line 416, in _make_request
httplib_response = conn.getresponse()
  File "/usr/lib/python3.7/http/client.py", line 1321, in getresponse
response.begin()
  File "/usr/lib/python3.7/http/client.py", line 296, in begin
version, status, reason = self._read_status()
  File "/usr/lib/python3.7/http/client.py", line 265, in _read_status
raise RemoteDisconnected("Remote end closed connection without"
http.client.RemoteDisconnected: Remote end closed connection without response

So yes, the REST API is not there. How can I get it going? 
Before we added the new domain, I was able to accept subscription requests to 
the previous domain’s lists. No more.

Yours,

Allan

> 
> 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3.0 Documentation

[Mark Sapiro]

On 12/29/19 1:27 PM, Allan Hansen wrote:
> All,
> 
> I have spent some time now trying to understand the list admin interface to 
> Mailman 3.0. There is no context-sensitive help and looking around at the 
> Mailman sites, I mostly find instructions on how to install Mailman 3.0, but 
> no documentation on using it (other than for end users - which is much 
> improved over MM2).
> 
> I also looked in the FAQ. Is there such docs and, if so, where can I find 
> them. It’s about terminology and how to mangle the headers, etc.


Unfortunately, there are currently no list admin docs for Postorius
other than the Postorius UI itself.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 Ready?

[Allan Hansen]

Hi all,

Thank you for your responses, Stephen. Much appreciated. I have forwarded them 
to my friend. I don’t know if he is on this list, but I have recommended that 
he be, so we can get over whatever hump is getting in the way.

I used the instructions on the Mailman 3 site on my own attempt. 

The fact that the mangling will continue is a disappointment. I’m inclined to 
tell all my AOL and Yahoo users and others in the same boat to find another 
email service. The problem is that my MacOS users are getting tripped up by the 
mangling, as it is hidden by the mail clients. I have instructed them to remove 
previous recipients regularly from the list of such, if they contain the ‘via 
list’ string. But they don’t read my emails, and we see many embarrassing email 
ssent to the lists that are meant for one-on-one communication.

What is the best, easiest, guaranteed-to-work way to get this Mailman 3 up and 
running (OS, add-ons, options, etc.). When I tried myself, I saw a lot of 
options that I really did not really care to have because I did not know the 
consequences of each. I’m an application programmer, not a systems programmer.

Yours,

Allan Hansen
allan_han...@icloud.com



> On Nov 24, 2019, at 22:15 , Stephen J. Turnbull 
>  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> I’m ready and eager to move on to MM3 on a Linux box.
> 
> The obvious "turn-key" installation is to use the Docker containers,
> which Abhilash keeps fairly up-to-date.  But see comment below about
> universal working solutions.
> 
> Which distro do you have?  Are you using the distro's packages of
> Mailman 3 (not yet a good idea, unfortunately), or installing from
> source?
> 
>> I have looked into it a few times now and I keep running into the
>> same blocks. I don't see much moving either. I was hoping someone
>> (Mailman developing community) would come up with a better working
>> solution.
> 
> It's email.  There are no universal working solutions.
> 
>> [Some third party wrote:] My concern is that the Mailman3 is not
>> ready. There are too many dead ends and undocumented stuff.
> 
> Who is this guy and has he consulted us?  I'd like to do an archive
> search if he's done so to see what the issues are.
> 
>> For Mailman2 I have a working integration with iRedMail, that does
>> not seem to work with 3.
> 
> What's iRedMail?  How does it fit into the community your lists serve?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 Ready?

[Robert Heller]

At Mon, 25 Nov 2019 13:47:16 -0500 Jim Popovitch  wrote:

> 
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA256
> 
> On Mon, 2019-11-25 at 11:06 -0500, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users
> wrote:
> > On Mon, 2019-11-25 at 16:59 +0100, Johannes Rohr wrote:
> > > Am Mo., 25. Nov. 2019 um 16:47 Uhr schrieb Jim Popovitch via 
> > > Mailman-Users :
> > > > On Mon, 2019-11-25 at 10:17 -0500, Matthew Pounsett wrote:
> > > > > Is there a timeline for that?  Mailman 2.x requires python 2.x, which 
> > > > > is
> > > > > EOL in about 40 days.  
> > > > 
> > > > I keep saying this a lot... the EOL you are referring to is Python's
> > > > declared date that the Python team will no longer maintain Python2.
> > > > HOWEVER, Redhat, Debian, etc., *will* still be maintaining Python2
> > > > throughout the lifecycles of their releases that contain Python2.   So,
> > > > for Debian 10 (Buster) that is well past 2022 (which is the LTS 
> > > > end-data 
> > > > for Debian 9).
> > > 
> > > Python2 is being removed from Debian's next release, Bullseye, though. 
> > > This already has caused turmoil for the Calibre package and I suppose 
> > > that they will have to remove mailman 2 also so that it is not going to 
> > > be in the bullseye release.
> > 
> > Correct, so LTS End-date for Buster (which will be sometime in 2024?)
> > will be the last of Python2 for Debian.
> > 
> > If you are migrating to Bullseye, then it makes sense to plan for an
> > application (e.g. Mailman) migration too.  BUT if you are not using
> > bleeding edge OSes, you don't need to heed the Python fear mongering.
> 
> Since I'm working on PPAs some today, an additional bullet-point to the
> above is that Ubuntu Bionic (which includes Python 2.7) has an EOL of
> April 2028.
> 
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
> 
> Sure, it would be great if everyone migrated to MM3 (and MM3 fit inside
> the requirements of everyone using it..) ASAP, but just like with the
> Linux Kernel there is no magic solution to have everyone on Kernel 5.x
> this week... so guess what, kernel 3x still gets security patches from
> distributors.

And RedHat is still supporting Kernel 2x for RHEL 6...

> 
> - -Jim P.
> 
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> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
> 
> --
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> Unsubscribe: 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/heller%40deepsoft.com
> 
>   
>   

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 Ready?

[Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On Mon, 2019-11-25 at 11:06 -0500, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users
wrote:
> On Mon, 2019-11-25 at 16:59 +0100, Johannes Rohr wrote:
> > Am Mo., 25. Nov. 2019 um 16:47 Uhr schrieb Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users 
> > :
> > > On Mon, 2019-11-25 at 10:17 -0500, Matthew Pounsett wrote:
> > > > Is there a timeline for that?  Mailman 2.x requires python 2.x, which is
> > > > EOL in about 40 days.  
> > > 
> > > I keep saying this a lot... the EOL you are referring to is Python's
> > > declared date that the Python team will no longer maintain Python2.
> > > HOWEVER, Redhat, Debian, etc., *will* still be maintaining Python2
> > > throughout the lifecycles of their releases that contain Python2.   So,
> > > for Debian 10 (Buster) that is well past 2022 (which is the LTS end-data 
> > > for Debian 9).
> > 
> > Python2 is being removed from Debian's next release, Bullseye, though. This 
> > already has caused turmoil for the Calibre package and I suppose that they 
> > will have to remove mailman 2 also so that it is not going to be in the 
> > bullseye release.
> 
> Correct, so LTS End-date for Buster (which will be sometime in 2024?)
> will be the last of Python2 for Debian.
> 
> If you are migrating to Bullseye, then it makes sense to plan for an
> application (e.g. Mailman) migration too.  BUT if you are not using
> bleeding edge OSes, you don't need to heed the Python fear mongering.

Since I'm working on PPAs some today, an additional bullet-point to the
above is that Ubuntu Bionic (which includes Python 2.7) has an EOL of
April 2028.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases

Sure, it would be great if everyone migrated to MM3 (and MM3 fit inside
the requirements of everyone using it..) ASAP, but just like with the
Linux Kernel there is no magic solution to have everyone on Kernel 5.x
this week... so guess what, kernel 3x still gets security patches from
distributors.

- -Jim P.

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=Lsiw
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 Ready?

[Mark Sapiro]

On 11/25/19 7:17 AM, Matthew Pounsett wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 at 05:04, Johannes Rohr  wrote:
> 
>> The obvious big showstopper is that there is no supported upgrade path
>> from Mailman 2.* yet, according to
>>
>> http://www.mailman3.org/en/latest/pre-installation-guide.html#how-can-i-upgrade-from-mailman-2-1-x
>> and so you certainly don't want to try to upgrade production instances
>> of mailman  without it.
>>
> 
> Is there a timeline for that?


Actually, that doc is out of date. The 'mailman import21' command for
importing a list from a Mailman 2.1 config.pck currently works quite
well. We've used it to migrate several lists on python.org and it works
well (and bugs when found get fixed).

The biggest issue is anomalies in the archive .mbox files that affect
the hyperkitty_import process.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 Ready?

[Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users]

On Mon, 2019-11-25 at 16:59 +0100, Johannes Rohr wrote:
> 
> Am Mo., 25. Nov. 2019 um 16:47 Uhr schrieb Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users 
> :
> > On Mon, 2019-11-25 at 10:17 -0500, Matthew Pounsett wrote:
> > > Is there a timeline for that?  Mailman 2.x requires python 2.x, which is
> > > EOL in about 40 days.  
> > 
> > I keep saying this a lot... the EOL you are referring to is Python's
> > declared date that the Python team will no longer maintain Python2.
> > HOWEVER, Redhat, Debian, etc., *will* still be maintaining Python2
> > throughout the lifecycles of their releases that contain Python2.   So,
> > for Debian 10 (Buster) that is well past 2022 (which is the LTS end-data 
> > for Debian 9).
> 
> Python2 is being removed from Debian's next release, Bullseye, though. This 
> already has caused turmoil for the Calibre package and I suppose that they 
> will have to remove mailman 2 also so that it is not going to be in the 
> bullseye release.

Correct, so LTS End-date for Buster (which will be sometime in 2024?)
will be the last of Python2 for Debian.

If you are migrating to Bullseye, then it makes sense to plan for an
application (e.g. Mailman) migration too.  BUT if you are not using
bleeding edge OSes, you don't need to heed the Python fear mongering.

-Jim P.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 Ready?

[Johannes Rohr]

Am Mo., 25. Nov. 2019 um 16:47 Uhr schrieb Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users <
mailman-users@python.org>:

> On Mon, 2019-11-25 at 10:17 -0500, Matthew Pounsett wrote:
> > Is there a timeline for that?  Mailman 2.x requires python 2.x, which is
> > EOL in about 40 days.
>
> I keep saying this a lot... the EOL you are referring to is Python's
> declared date that the Python team will no longer maintain Python2.
> HOWEVER, Redhat, Debian, etc., *will* still be maintaining Python2
> throughout the lifecycles of their releases that contain Python2.   So,
> for Debian 10 (Buster) that is well past 2022 (which is the LTS end-data
> for Debian 9).
>

Python2 is being removed from Debian's next release, Bullseye, though. This
already has caused turmoil for the Calibre package and I suppose that they
will have to remove mailman 2 also so that it is not going to be in the
bullseye release.


>
> Stop being scared by the Python team's misleading messaging.
>
> -Jim P.
>
> --
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 Ready?

[Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users]

On Mon, 2019-11-25 at 10:17 -0500, Matthew Pounsett wrote:
> Is there a timeline for that?  Mailman 2.x requires python 2.x, which is
> EOL in about 40 days.  

I keep saying this a lot... the EOL you are referring to is Python's
declared date that the Python team will no longer maintain Python2.
HOWEVER, Redhat, Debian, etc., *will* still be maintaining Python2
throughout the lifecycles of their releases that contain Python2.   So,
for Debian 10 (Buster) that is well past 2022 (which is the LTS end-data 
for Debian 9).

Stop being scared by the Python team's misleading messaging.

-Jim P.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 Ready?

[Matthew Pounsett]

On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 at 05:04, Johannes Rohr  wrote:

> The obvious big showstopper is that there is no supported upgrade path
> from Mailman 2.* yet, according to
>
> http://www.mailman3.org/en/latest/pre-installation-guide.html#how-can-i-upgrade-from-mailman-2-1-x
> and so you certainly don't want to try to upgrade production instances
> of mailman  without it.
>

Is there a timeline for that?  Mailman 2.x requires python 2.x, which is
EOL in about 40 days.   It would have been nice to have a supported upgrade
path six months ago.  Can we count on one... say... in the next month?  I'm
not going to be able to do a production upgrade between now and the start
of the holidays change freeze anyway, but it would be nice if we could plan
on something for January.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 Ready?

[Johannes Rohr]

Am 25.11.19 um 07:15 schrieb Stephen J. Turnbull:


[...]

> The obvious "turn-key" installation is to use the Docker containers,
> which Abhilash keeps fairly up-to-date.  But see comment below about
> universal working solutions.


[...]

Great suggestion. Is it easy to integrate it with the system's MTA or
does it come with its own MTA?

The obvious big showstopper is that there is no supported upgrade path
from Mailman 2.* yet, according to 
http://www.mailman3.org/en/latest/pre-installation-guide.html#how-can-i-upgrade-from-mailman-2-1-x
and so you certainly don't want to try to upgrade production instances
of mailman  without it.

Cheers,

Johannes

 

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.12 confirm.py works fine with http but does not work with https

[Mark Sapiro]

On 11/5/19 8:02 AM, jimw...@attglobal.net wrote:
> 
> To make my website more secure, my website is configured to only work
> with https and not with http.
> 
> Please let me know how I can use confirm.py with https.
> 
> confirm.py works fine with http, but not with https.


As I said in a prior reply, do at least steps 1-3 at
. Presumably, you have already done
step 1 or an equivalent to force https. Now you must do steps 2 and 3 to
ensure that the ACTION URL for forms is https.

You may also want to do step 4, although that doesn't bear directly on
this issue.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Python Apache CGI issue

[Mark Sapiro]

On 11/3/19 11:08 AM, jimw...@attglobal.net wrote:
> 
> Confirming the subscription using the email method works fine, but the
> web page confirmation is having problems.
> 
> For a user named "dot" joining the Skipper group, the URL is:
> 
> http:///mailman/confirm/skipper/b36adbfa6d4b9af927197b75006444262696b9a6
>  
...
> After the user clicks to subscribe to the group on the Confirm
> Subscription web page,
> the confirm.py script checks to see if the cookie was entered in the URL:


So the initial GET of the page at
http:///mailman/confirm/skipper/b36adbfa6d4b9af927197b75006444262696b9a6
works and it is only the subsequent "Subscribe to list ..." button that
fails.

If that is correct, POST data is getting lost. See the FAQ article at
 for some reasons why this happens
(most likely redirection from http to https, in which case do at least
steps 1-3 at ).

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman with Interworx server administration

[Brian Carpenter]

On 11/4/19 5:24 PM, Christian F Buser via Mailman-Users wrote:

Hi all

Our hosting provider writes that he wants to change from cPanel to 
Interworx.


At present, we have our virtual server on cPanel version 78.0.41, 
which includes Mailman version 2.1.27.


I found a comparison of the two environments on this page 
 
stating



Important Differences:
...
cPanel supports PostgreSQL, Mailman mailing lists, NodeJS, 
server-side Java, Ruby on Rails and the DNSSEC protocol, but 
InterWorx does not support those things at this time.

However our provider thinks that Mailman could also be installed there.

Does anybody have (positive or negative) experience with Interworx?

Thank you, Christian


Hi Christian,

Interworx is bought out by LiquidWeb. LiquidWeb is a large hosting 
provider that is abandoning cPanel due to cPanel's price increase in 
September. I doubt your current provider will be able to get Mailman 
installed since cPanel did all the heavy lifting in getting Mailman 2 to 
run on a server. Most webhosts have very little experience with Mailman 
2. Please see our blog article at:


https://www.emwd.com/cpanel-refugee-hosting/

If you want to stay with cPanel/Mailman then I like to invite you to 
consider us. However if you want to stay with your current provider, 
then please visit our Mailman hosting service at 
https://www.mailmanhost.com. We run the latest version of Mailman out 
side of our cPanel servers.


One thing cPanel has that is really nice for list admins is their track 
delivery tool for troubleshooting bounces to list members.


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Thank you for your business. We appreciate our clients.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman not functional

[Bill Cole]

On 17 Oct 2019, at 16:41, Steven Jones wrote:


ssh takes a long time to login but there is no load to cause this.


The first thing to suspect when logins take a long time with no tangible 
loading issues (i/o, memory, and CPU all good) is DNS. If your resolver 
is trying to query a non-responsive DNS server or servers but eventually 
hits one that works, login and anything involving email transport will 
be plagued by delays.


So: check /etc/resolv.conf and make sure all listed servers are 
responding to queries.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman not functional

[Mark Sapiro]

On 10/17/19 3:59 PM, Steven Jones wrote:
> thanks
> 
> I am sort of suspecting postfix as /var/log/maillog is not being written to.
> 
> meanwhile,
> 
> /var/log/mailman/smtp has something odd. The time to send email varies 
> between 0.017 and 180 seconds plus,  and its getting worse,
> 
> ==
> Oct 18 11:26:13 2019 (9398) 
>  smtp to 
> postgradcoordinators for 1 recips, completed in 0.017 seconds
> Oct 18 11:26:26 2019 (9398) 
>  smtp to 
> postgradcoordinators for 14 recips, completed in 12.419 seconds
> Oct 18 11:26:27 2019 (9398) 
>  smtp to 
> vuw-schooladmin for 14 recips, completed in 0.029 seconds
> Oct 18 11:26:27 2019 (9398) n/a smtp to its-alerts for 10 recips, completed 
> in 0.073 seconds
> Oct 18 11:26:27 2019 (9398) 
>  smtp to 
> postgradcoordinators for 1 recips, completed in 0.019 seconds
> Oct 18 11:26:27 2019 (9398) 
>  smtp to 
> postgradcoordinators for 14 recips, completed in 0.019 seconds
> Oct 18 11:26:39 2019 (9398) n/a smtp to its-alerts for 10 recips, completed 
> in 10.111 seconds
> Oct 18 11:26:41 2019 (9398)  
> 
>  smtp to fad-design-postgrads for 102 recips, completed in 0.248 seconds
> Oct 18 11:26:41 2019 (9398) n/a smtp to its-alerts for 10 recips, completed 
> in 0.024 seconds
> Oct 18 11:26:41 2019 (9398)  
> 
>  smtp to fad-design for 56 recips, completed in 0.030 seconds
> Oct 18 11:29:45 2019 (9398) 
> 
>  smtp to nz-libs for 1844 recips, completed in 184.400 seconds
> Oct 18 11:31:31 2019 (9398) 
>  smtp to 
> teachingandlearning for 1 recips, completed in 103.629 seconds
> Oct 18 11:34:22 2019 (9398) n/a smtp to its-alerts for 10 recips, completed 
> in 169.826 seconds
> Oct 18 11:36:26 2019 (9398) n/a smtp to its-alerts for 10 recips, completed 
> in 123.446 seconds
> Oct 18 11:39:33 2019 (9398)  
> 
>  smtp to fad-design for 56 recips, completed in 187.700 seconds
> 8><


Mailman's out queue is backlogged. See
. Something is changed affecting
Postfix. Possibly you had a local DNS cache that is now not working and
Postfix DNS lookups are taking a long time. Also consider a separate
Postfix port for Mailman delivery with minimal checking. On
mail.python.org we use something like this in master.cf

127.0.0.1:8027
  inet  n   -   -   --  smtpd
-o smtpd_recipient_restrictions=permit_mynetworks,reject
-o smtpd_client_restrictions=
-o smtpd_helo_restrictions=
-o smtpd_sender_restrictions=
-o smtpd_data_restrictions=

...
> =
> [root@vuwunicomailmn1 mailman]# tail qrunner
> Oct 18 09:32:13 2019 (9400) RetryRunner qrunner started.
> Oct 18 09:32:13 2019 (9395) CommandRunner qrunner started.
> Oct 18 09:32:13 2019 (9396) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
> Oct 18 09:32:13 2019 (9399) VirginRunner qrunner started.
> Oct 18 09:32:13 2019 (9397) NewsRunner qrunner started.
> Oct 18 09:32:13 2019 (9394) BounceRunner qrunner started.
> Oct 18 09:32:13 2019 (9398) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
> Oct 18 09:32:13 2019 (8205) OutgoingRunner qrunner exiting.
> Oct 18 09:32:13 2019 (8172) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> (pid: 8205, sig: None, sts: 15, class: OutgoingRunner, slice: 1/1)
> [root@vuwunicomailmn1 mailman]#
> =
> 
> and its now 11:50am
> 
> Ok to assume the above in the qrunner log is normal?
>


The last three lines are not normal OutgoingRunner has died, but it
seems these are the result of a Mailman restart and the old
OutgoingRunner persisted for a while because it had to finish delivery
of the current message. Note the out of sequence PID and the fact that
ps shows 9398 is running.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman not functional

[Steven Jones]

thanks

I am sort of suspecting postfix as /var/log/maillog is not being written to.

meanwhile,

/var/log/mailman/smtp has something odd. The time to send email varies between 
0.017 and 180 seconds plus,  and its getting worse,

==
Oct 18 11:26:13 2019 (9398) 
 smtp to 
postgradcoordinators for 1 recips, completed in 0.017 seconds
Oct 18 11:26:26 2019 (9398) 
 smtp to 
postgradcoordinators for 14 recips, completed in 12.419 seconds
Oct 18 11:26:27 2019 (9398) 
 smtp to 
vuw-schooladmin for 14 recips, completed in 0.029 seconds
Oct 18 11:26:27 2019 (9398) n/a smtp to its-alerts for 10 recips, completed in 
0.073 seconds
Oct 18 11:26:27 2019 (9398) 
 smtp to 
postgradcoordinators for 1 recips, completed in 0.019 seconds
Oct 18 11:26:27 2019 (9398) 
 smtp to 
postgradcoordinators for 14 recips, completed in 0.019 seconds
Oct 18 11:26:39 2019 (9398) n/a smtp to its-alerts for 10 recips, completed in 
10.111 seconds
Oct 18 11:26:41 2019 (9398)  

 smtp to fad-design-postgrads for 102 recips, completed in 0.248 seconds
Oct 18 11:26:41 2019 (9398) n/a smtp to its-alerts for 10 recips, completed in 
0.024 seconds
Oct 18 11:26:41 2019 (9398)  

 smtp to fad-design for 56 recips, completed in 0.030 seconds
Oct 18 11:29:45 2019 (9398) 

 smtp to nz-libs for 1844 recips, completed in 184.400 seconds
Oct 18 11:31:31 2019 (9398) 
 smtp to 
teachingandlearning for 1 recips, completed in 103.629 seconds
Oct 18 11:34:22 2019 (9398) n/a smtp to its-alerts for 10 recips, completed in 
169.826 seconds
Oct 18 11:36:26 2019 (9398) n/a smtp to its-alerts for 10 recips, completed in 
123.446 seconds
Oct 18 11:39:33 2019 (9398)  

 smtp to fad-design for 56 recips, completed in 187.700 seconds
8><

==

We are getting mail but very slowly so mailman is working, and item 2.2

[root@vuwunicomailmn1 ~]# ps auxww| grep mailmanctl |grep -v grep
mailman   9390  0.0  0.1 214172  9432 ?Ss   09:32   0:00 
/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s -q start

and,

[root@vuwunicomailmn1 ~]# service mailman status
mailman (pid 9390) is running...
[root@vuwunicomailmn1 ~]# service postfix status
master (pid  7688) is running...
[root@vuwunicomailmn1 ~]#

seems to confirm this.

[root@vuwunicomailmn1 ~]# rpm -q mailman
mailman-2.1.12-26.el6_9.3.x86_64


[root@vuwunicomailmn1 ~]# ps auxww | egrep 'p[y]thon'
root  8152  0.0  0.5 598144 46040 ?Sl   09:24   0:05 
/usr/bin/python2.7 /usr/bin/salt-minion -c /etc/salt -d
mailman   9390  0.0  0.1 214172  9432 ?Ss   09:32   0:00 
/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s -q start
mailman   9393  2.7  2.8 435468 231896 ?   S09:32   3:36 
/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   9394  0.0  0.2 219840 16204 ?S09:32   0:01 
/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   9395  0.0  0.1 216084 12204 ?S09:32   0:00 
/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   9396  0.0  0.2 226128 22572 ?S09:32   0:04 
/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   9397  0.0  0.1 216164 12300 ?S09:32   0:00 
/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   9398  0.1  0.2 221688 18224 ?S09:32   0:12 
/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   9399  0.0  0.2 221168 17556 ?S09:32   0:03 
/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   9400  0.0  0.1 216068 12200 ?S09:32   0:00 
/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s
root 20071  0.0  0.2 210860 19864 ?S11:21   0:00 
/usr/bin/python /usr/libexec/rhsmd
[root@vuwunicomailmn1 ~]#

qrunner,

=
[root@vuwunicomailmn1 mailman]# tail qrunner
Oct 18 09:32:13 2019 (9400) RetryRunner qrunner started.
Oct 18 09:32:13 2019 (9395) CommandRunner qrunner started.
Oct 18 09:32:13 2019 (9396) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Oct 18 09:32:13 2019 (9399) VirginRunner qrunner started.
Oct 18 09:32:13 2019 (9397) NewsRunner qrunner started.
Oct 18 09:32:13 2019 (9394) BounceRunner qrunner started.
Oct 18 09:32:13 2019 (9398) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
Oct 18 09:32:13 2019 (8205) OutgoingRunner qrunner exiting.
Oct 18 09:32:13 2019 (8172) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 8205, sig: None, sts: 15, class: OutgoingRunner, slice: 1/1)
[root@vuwunicomailmn1 mailman]#
=

and its now 11:50am

Ok to assume the above in the qrunner log is normal?





regards

Steven



From: Mailman-Users  
on behalf of Mark Sapiro 
Sent: Friday, 18 October 2019 10:29 AM
To: mailman-users@python.org 
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman not functional

On 10/17/19 1:41 PM, Steven Jones wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Yesterday we had a major network outage that lasted 2 hours+  This morning I 
> find that the mailman s

Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman not functional

[Mark Sapiro]

On 10/17/19 1:41 PM, Steven Jones wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Yesterday we had a major network outage that lasted 2 hours+  This morning I 
> find that the mailman server has "stopped working"   I have restarted mailman 
> and now the server but mailman is not processing any emails.  The load in top 
> is 0.00 ~0.01 sort of thing, no no disk i/o, no action at all, disks are not 
> full. ssh takes a long time to login but there is no load to cause this. I 
> can see python is running in top but at like 0.3%.


You say you restarted Mailman and the server, but is Mailman actually
running?

Is Postfix delivering to Mailman (look at Postfix's logs)? Is stuff
piling up in Mailman's queues; if so, which one(s).

See the FAQ at  focusing on items 2.2,
6.2, 7, 8 and 9.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman on google comput engine

[황병희]

Sorry for late, i need to time think about that.
Thanks you for *everyone* for me to feedback, indeed...

Sincerely,

-- 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman errors

[Mark Sapiro]

On 8/26/19 9:59 AM, Bill Richards wrote:
> Mark
> 
> I read the wiki and have inserted the "RedirectPermanent" statement in the
> httpd.conf file and restarted apache.  Then I ran
> "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/withlist -l -r fix_url aewa" and the following
> results came back:
> 
> Importing fix_url...
> Running fix_url.fix_url()...
> Loading list aewa (locked)
> Saving list
> Finalizing
> 
> After that I tried to approve/discard some pending requests and received a
> odd response when the next html page was not found:  "
> http://aewa.c.agile-being-124522.internal/mailman/admindb/aewa;
> Which to me looks like some sort of header I've seen in emails.  Apparently
> the  "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/withlist -l -r fix_url aewa"  command  has
> scrambled most of the web page archives.  I was able to find and fix it in
> the config.pck file but some of the other admin pages still have url's with
> the "aewa.c.agile-being" etc. in them.  Plus the archives are no longer
> accessible.


I can access the pipermail archive for your list with no problem

What is in Mailman's Mailman/Defaults.py and Mailman/mm_cfg.py for the
settings

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST
DEFAULT_URL_HOST
and all add_virtualhost() lines?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman errors

[Bill Richards]

Mark

I read the wiki and have inserted the "RedirectPermanent" statement in the
httpd.conf file and restarted apache.  Then I ran
"/usr/lib/mailman/bin/withlist -l -r fix_url aewa" and the following
results came back:

Importing fix_url...
Running fix_url.fix_url()...
Loading list aewa (locked)
Saving list
Finalizing

After that I tried to approve/discard some pending requests and received a
odd response when the next html page was not found:  "
http://aewa.c.agile-being-124522.internal/mailman/admindb/aewa;
Which to me looks like some sort of header I've seen in emails.  Apparently
the  "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/withlist -l -r fix_url aewa"  command  has
scrambled most of the web page archives.  I was able to find and fix it in
the config.pck file but some of the other admin pages still have url's with
the "aewa.c.agile-being" etc. in them.  Plus the archives are no longer
accessible.

Right now I am stumped.

Bill

On Sun, Aug 25, 2019 at 5:45 PM Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> On 8/25/19 10:40 AM, Bill Richards wrote:
> > Mark
> >
> > Ran dumpdb against all the pck files and saw no instances of "new-" yet
> > when using
> >
> > find /home -xdev -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep -H "new-"
> >
> > it finds matches in config.pck, config.pck.last & config.pck.safety
>
>
> I'm not sure why you are looking in /home since based on an off list
> message, your actual Mailman files are in /var/lib/mailman/lists/.
>
> In any case, if grep finds an instance of "new-" in some config.pck, the
> output of mailman's bin/dumpdb of that file should also contain "new-".
>
> But none of this seems relevant to your issues.
>
> For the smtp-failure log "Sender address
> rejected: Domain not found" errors, what are the messages in the MTA
> logs correlated with this.
>
> For the problems with approving and/or
> discarding messages and unable to add/delete users to the list issues,
> have you looked at  and did it help? Is
> this still an issue?
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
> --
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman errors

[Bill Richards]

Sorry, It wasn't  actually home I just cut and pasted the wrong line from
.bash_history.  I searched multiple directories but found the matches under
/var/lib/mailman

I'll check the maillogs in the morning.

re: the link, yes I recently converted the web site to https so I'll review
that link in the AM and see if that is it.

Thanks for the help

Bill

On Sun, Aug 25, 2019 at 5:45 PM Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> On 8/25/19 10:40 AM, Bill Richards wrote:
> > Mark
> >
> > Ran dumpdb against all the pck files and saw no instances of "new-" yet
> > when using
> >
> > find /home -xdev -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep -H "new-"
> >
> > it finds matches in config.pck, config.pck.last & config.pck.safety
>
>
> I'm not sure why you are looking in /home since based on an off list
> message, your actual Mailman files are in /var/lib/mailman/lists/.
>
> In any case, if grep finds an instance of "new-" in some config.pck, the
> output of mailman's bin/dumpdb of that file should also contain "new-".
>
> But none of this seems relevant to your issues.
>
> For the smtp-failure log "Sender address
> rejected: Domain not found" errors, what are the messages in the MTA
> logs correlated with this.
>
> For the problems with approving and/or
> discarding messages and unable to add/delete users to the list issues,
> have you looked at  and did it help? Is
> this still an issue?
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
> --
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
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> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/wildbill.richards%40gmail.com
>
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman errors

[Mark Sapiro]

On 8/25/19 10:40 AM, Bill Richards wrote:
> Mark
> 
> Ran dumpdb against all the pck files and saw no instances of "new-" yet
> when using
> 
> find /home -xdev -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep -H "new-"
> 
> it finds matches in config.pck, config.pck.last & config.pck.safety


I'm not sure why you are looking in /home since based on an off list
message, your actual Mailman files are in /var/lib/mailman/lists/.

In any case, if grep finds an instance of "new-" in some config.pck, the
output of mailman's bin/dumpdb of that file should also contain "new-".

But none of this seems relevant to your issues.

For the smtp-failure log "Sender address
rejected: Domain not found" errors, what are the messages in the MTA
logs correlated with this.

For the problems with approving and/or
discarding messages and unable to add/delete users to the list issues,
have you looked at  and did it help? Is
this still an issue?

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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman errors

[Bill Richards]

Mark

Ran dumpdb against all the pck files and saw no instances of "new-" yet
when using

find /home -xdev -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep -H "new-"

it finds matches in config.pck, config.pck.last & config.pck.safety

On Sat, Aug 24, 2019 at 8:28 PM Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> On 8/24/19 5:33 PM, Bill Richards wrote:
> > The domain is correct from the web page General Options -> host_name
> > attribute of the list
> >
> > The dumpdb against config.pck shows a lot of list members email
> addresses,
> > "accept_non_members", "ban_list", etc.  It is very long (2413 lines).
> What
> > specifically am I looking for to get the attributes?
>
>
> All occurrences where "new-" is appended to the domain you use.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
> --
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman errors

[Mark Sapiro]

On 8/24/19 5:33 PM, Bill Richards wrote:
> The domain is correct from the web page General Options -> host_name
> attribute of the list
> 
> The dumpdb against config.pck shows a lot of list members email addresses,
> "accept_non_members", "ban_list", etc.  It is very long (2413 lines).  What
> specifically am I looking for to get the attributes?


All occurrences where "new-" is appended to the domain you use.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman version 2.1.16 -- Search of *private* archives?

[Mark Dale]

Hi,

It sounds like you now have it sorted with Namazu, but for what it's
worth there is an excellent guide to install Namazu "out of the box" on
Mailman 2.1.* at:

http://bakacsin.ki.iif.hu/~kissg/project/mailman+namazu/

And no issues with Private archives or incorrect URLs.

/Mark


On 25/8/19 8:07 am, Robert Heller wrote:
> At Sat, 24 Aug 2019 14:20:42 -0700 Mark Sapiro  wrote:
> 
>>
>> On 8/24/19 1:15 PM, Robert Heller wrote:
>>>
>>> OK, I have installed Namazu, which will do what I want, *BUT* pipermail.pl 
>>> is 
>>> missing from the tarball I downloaded from the Namazu website.  Where can I 
>>> get that file.  At this point, the search works, but the URI's are wrong 
>>> (local file name, not the proper mailman URL).
>>
>>
>> I can't answer directly, but see
>> .
>>
> 
> I figured out how to hack the Namazu code to incldue a "replacement" function 
> and passed it on to the re-index function.  I think that will work.  (Perl is 
> almost as bad as APL -- the only thing about Perl is that it uses "normal" 
> ASCII, but still is pretty much write-only code, like APL.)
> 
> 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman errors

[Bill Richards]

The domain is correct from the web page General Options -> host_name
attribute of the list

The dumpdb against config.pck shows a lot of list members email addresses,
"accept_non_members", "ban_list", etc.  It is very long (2413 lines).  What
specifically am I looking for to get the attributes?

Bill

On Sat, Aug 24, 2019 at 5:32 PM Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> On 8/24/19 3:14 PM, Bill Richards wrote:
> >
> > After digging around I've found that I maybe experiencing some kind if
> > config corruption in pck files under /var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman  When
> > looking through the smtp-failure log I noticed errors "Sender address
> > rejected: Domain not found" and it appears something has or is appending
> > the text "new-" to the beginning of the domain we use.  Further
> > investigation shows that "new-" is appended to the domain in the
> > config.pck, config.pck.last & config.pck.safety files.
>
>
> What attributes have these things? Do Mailman's `bin/dumpdb` on the
> config.pck files.
>
> On the other hand, this may be the General Options -> host_name
> attribute of the list. If so, just fix it.
>
> Once we know what attributes are affected, we can say more.
>
> > Previous message:
> > =
> >
> > A few weeks ago are started experiencing problems with approving and/or
> > discarding messages.  I am also unable to add/delete users to the list
> but
> > messages from approved list members work fine.  I suspect either some
> file
> > has become corrupted or a permissions issue.
>
>
> Is this still an issue?  As I've said previously, see
> .
>
> --
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> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman errors

[Mark Sapiro]

On 8/24/19 3:14 PM, Bill Richards wrote:
> 
> After digging around I've found that I maybe experiencing some kind if
> config corruption in pck files under /var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman  When
> looking through the smtp-failure log I noticed errors "Sender address
> rejected: Domain not found" and it appears something has or is appending
> the text "new-" to the beginning of the domain we use.  Further
> investigation shows that "new-" is appended to the domain in the
> config.pck, config.pck.last & config.pck.safety files.


What attributes have these things? Do Mailman's `bin/dumpdb` on the
config.pck files.

On the other hand, this may be the General Options -> host_name
attribute of the list. If so, just fix it.

Once we know what attributes are affected, we can say more.

> Previous message:
> =
> 
> A few weeks ago are started experiencing problems with approving and/or
> discarding messages.  I am also unable to add/delete users to the list but
> messages from approved list members work fine.  I suspect either some file
> has become corrupted or a permissions issue.


Is this still an issue?  As I've said previously, see
.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman version 2.1.16 -- Search of *private* archives?

[Robert Heller]

At Sat, 24 Aug 2019 14:20:42 -0700 Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> 
> On 8/24/19 1:15 PM, Robert Heller wrote:
> > 
> > OK, I have installed Namazu, which will do what I want, *BUT* pipermail.pl 
> > is 
> > missing from the tarball I downloaded from the Namazu website.  Where can I 
> > get that file.  At this point, the search works, but the URI's are wrong 
> > (local file name, not the proper mailman URL).
> 
> 
> I can't answer directly, but see
> .
> 

I figured out how to hack the Namazu code to incldue a "replacement" function 
and passed it on to the re-index function.  I think that will work.  (Perl is 
almost as bad as APL -- the only thing about Perl is that it uses "normal" 
ASCII, but still is pretty much write-only code, like APL.)


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman version 2.1.16 -- Search of *private* archives?

[Mark Sapiro]

On 8/24/19 1:15 PM, Robert Heller wrote:
> 
> It is not clear if any of the options on that page will work for *private* 
> archives.  Most seem to be using an *external* third party search engine.  
> I'm 
> guessing I need to write a script (*I* don't know phthon and don't really 
> like 
> PHP) to do the searching and indexing on my server.


Ther HtDig branch at 
definitely works with private archives. I use it.

If you don't want to install that branch which is based on 2.1.29+,
there is a 2.1.16 version of Richard Barrett's htdig and indexing
patches on which this is based at
. Also see


You can get htdig at
.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman version 2.1.16 -- Search of *private* archives?

[Mark Sapiro]

On 8/24/19 1:15 PM, Robert Heller wrote:
> 
> OK, I have installed Namazu, which will do what I want, *BUT* pipermail.pl is 
> missing from the tarball I downloaded from the Namazu website.  Where can I 
> get that file.  At this point, the search works, but the URI's are wrong 
> (local file name, not the proper mailman URL).


I can't answer directly, but see
.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman version 2.1.16 -- Search of *private* archives?

[Robert Heller]

At Sat, 24 Aug 2019 08:46:50 -0700 Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> 
> On 8/24/19 5:59 AM, Robert Heller wrote:
> > Is it possible to have a search (eg by keyword) feature available for 
> > private 
> > archives with Mailman version 2.1.16?  There is no obvious setting for it.
> 
> 
> See .

OK, I have installed Namazu, which will do what I want, *BUT* pipermail.pl is 
missing from the tarball I downloaded from the Namazu website.  Where can I 
get that file.  At this point, the search works, but the URI's are wrong 
(local file name, not the proper mailman URL).

> 

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman version 2.1.16 -- Search of *private* archives?

[Robert Heller]

At Sat, 24 Aug 2019 08:46:50 -0700 Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> 
> On 8/24/19 5:59 AM, Robert Heller wrote:
> > Is it possible to have a search (eg by keyword) feature available for 
> > private 
> > archives with Mailman version 2.1.16?  There is no obvious setting for it.
> 
> 
> See .

It is not clear if any of the options on that page will work for *private* 
archives.  Most seem to be using an *external* third party search engine.  I'm 
guessing I need to write a script (*I* don't know phthon and don't really like 
PHP) to do the searching and indexing on my server.

> 

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman version 2.1.16 -- Search of *private* archives?

[Mark Sapiro]

On 8/24/19 5:59 AM, Robert Heller wrote:
> Is it possible to have a search (eg by keyword) feature available for private 
> archives with Mailman version 2.1.16?  There is no obvious setting for it.


See .

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman eats this message. Why?

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Sorry for the delay, I left this in my drafts folder "for lunch" and
forgot it.

Brett Delmage writes:

 > And it is working!

Great!  Thank you for reporting status.

 > The stupid thing is that I never changed anything.

That's useful to know, it means I'm not going crazy.  But these things
happen to all of us, and it's frequently something in the environment
of the moment that does it.  Hard to track down, glad you found your
issue.

Steve
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman eats this message. Why?

[Brett Delmage]

Stephen and Christian,

Thank you for your most helpful replies.

I did some additional testing. I remembered (after) that I had a copy of 
the original message as received by Mailman, as I was copying the Mailman 
posting address mail to another mbox for debugging. Also, the user who had 
HTML-only mail was very helpful in working with me to send more test 
messages.


And it is working!

The stupid thing is that I never changed anything.

I did realize that the user had originally copied me on his list message - 
and "nodupes" caused my Mailman copy to not be sent.


With the tester and me being the only list members at the moment it 
therefore appeared that Mailman ate the message because I (and he) were 
the only recipients. (A previously active list is being moved to a new 
domain and is going online on Monday and I was debugging the new config.)


Duh. Blame my oversight on having a terrible summer cold this past week.

In the process though, I did realize that no list admins were subscribed 
to the site mailman list. Whoops.


You both posted useful info to the list which will be in the archives for 
others and me to refer to for similar problems int he future. (I've kept 
my own copy of the MM list messages since 2000 for easy local 
searchability.)


At the end of all my work I was happy to see my local SpamAssassin give 
our list messages a -1.1 score.


Again, thank you for your help and many contributions to this list.

Brett




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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman eats this message. Why?

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Christian,

Thanks for the analysis!

Brett,

Whenever possible, you should send the whole message, preferably as an
attachment, redacting only personally identifying information.  This
includes display names and comments attached to mail addresses as well
as the addresses themselves in From, To, Cc, and Bcc header fields as
well as their "Resent-*" versions, Received header fields (which
frequently contain addresses or personal domains), and the Message-ID
header field, which frequently contains an identifying domain, and of
course such information in the text.  The method of redaction should
be substitution of addresses and domains like "John Doe
" or other text as appropriate, and note any time
you remove characters other than the usual ASCII characters.  Of
course, it's up to you and the people potentially identified by the
message how much effort you want to put into it, this is the ideal
from our point of view in order to check for the kinds of issues
Christian describes.

Back to Christian, who writes:

 > Sending text/html emails is ok.
 > But using "Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit" with UTF-8 content can get
 > it dumped if:
 > * there is any character not ASCII in the whole email
 > * there is any line with more than 1000 characters in the whole email

Nice catch!

 > Not sure, if that is your problem, as you redacted the contents.

Seems unlikely, because AFAIK Mailman doesn't check line length AFAIK,
and you'd get a UnicodeError on anything non-ASCII, which would show
up in the "error" log.  Also, I suppose the contents were the original
"please tell me what you think" message that presumably passed through
the list.  Still, an "ideally redacted" message would help to confirm.

Steve
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman eats this message. Why?

[mailman-admin]

Hello

Sending text/html emails is ok.
But using "Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit" with UTF-8 content can get
it dumped if:
* there is any character not ASCII in the whole email
* there is any line with more than 1000 characters in the whole email

Not sure, if that is your problem, as you redacted the contents.


Kind regards,
Christian Mack

Am 31.07.19 um 23:13 schrieb Brett Delmage:
> I've been having trouble with one subscriber whose content was always
> stripped.
> 
> After changing a Content filtering flag and discovering that lynx was
> not installed, my tests of my own multipart html + text, and html-only
> messages indicated I had finally had Mailman correctly configured, or so
> it seemed. I got content in both cases.
> 
> But a test message from this user appears to have been eaten by MM.
> Postfix shows delivery to the MM list alias and that's where it ends. MM
> logs nothing for this message in any log and it is not posted.
> 
> Using Mailman version: 2.1.29
> 
> I have included the Content filtering section from bin/config_list and a
> stripped-down version of the message that went AWOL with content and
> headers that are of potential interest.
> 
> I'd welcome any suggestions or requests for more info or next debugging
> steps as may be appropriate. Thank you!
> 
> Brett
> 
> p.s. forget asking this user to send multipart including text. Some
> users are just incapable of that. But if I have to inform him that his
> HTML-only messages as sent will never get through MM, that's ok.
> 
> 
> lost message:
> 
> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 15:14:23 -0400 (EDT)
> ...
> Message-ID:
> <566705347.6949993.1564600463102.JavaMail.open-xchange@mtlgui02>
> Subject: Re: Please help us test the new freelance email list server
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.6.1-Rev29
> X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite
> 
> 
>  "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd;> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml;>
>     
> 
>  
> 
>   Hi Brett:Would be great to participate in the
> discussions on the list.
>   thanks
>   
>    -- Original Message -- ...
>   
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> 
> excerpt of config_list -o:
> 
> filter_content = 1
> 
> filter_mime_types = ''
> 
> pass_mime_types = """multipart/mixed
> multipart/alternative
> multipart message/rfc822
> text/plain
> text/html"""
> 
> filter_filename_extensions = """exe
> bat
> cmd
> com
> pif
> scr
> vbs
> cpl
> pdf
> zip
> doc
> rtf
> xls
> vcf"""
> 
> pass_filename_extensions = ''
> 
> collapse_alternatives = True
> 
> convert_html_to_plaintext = True
> 
> filter_action = 3
> 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman start error

[Mark Sapiro]

On 5/11/19 7:43 AM, Web Analysts via Mailman-Users wrote:
> I'm now getting an error when I start Mailman:
> 
> root@primeo:~# /etc/init.d/mailman start
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 106, in 
> from Mailman import mm_cfg
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py", line 54, in 
> add_virtualhost(lists.domainname.tld, lists.domainname.tld)
> NameError: name 'lists' is not defined
> root@primeo:~#
> 
> 
> What did I inadvertently break?


In the line

add_virtualhost(lists.domainname.tld, lists.domainname.tld)

which you added to mm_cfg.py, the domain names need to be quoted as in

add_virtualhost('lists.domainname.tld', 'lists.domainname.tld')


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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman headers get corrupted / incomplete

[Mark Sapiro]

On 3/24/19 1:14 PM, wally b wrote:
> 
> Maybe I found the cause of this:
> (last part of) the headers look like this:
> 
> 
> X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on b(0, 0, =
> 0);" class=3D"">Als u zich =
> wilt afmelden voor deze emails, laat ...
> 
> 
> 
> The text "..b(0,.." etc seems not to belong there. This is some text that is 
> somewhere else in the mail and is copied over this part.
> I expect this line to be:
> 
> X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on pknpserver.pknpapendrecht.nl); SAEximRunCond 
> expanded to false
> 
> How can this happen?
> Please help me to find out how this can occur.


This is almost certainly an Exim/SpamAssassin issue having nothing to do
with Mailman.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman on google comput engine

[Mark Sapiro]

On 3/25/19 8:21 AM, Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users wrote:
> 
> Noted.  I think it would be possible to interject a shim between
> fetchmail that would extract what's necessary to speak LMTP to Mailman.


Yes, it would be possible.


> Is the LMTP still STDIN / STDOUT or something else (possibly a Unix
> socket)?


The shim could receive a message on stdin from fetchmail, but it would
have to deliver the message via LMTP (a subset of SMTP) to Mailman's
lmtp runner which listens on a tcp socket, typically localhost:8024.


> I'm trying to understand if I could drive Mailman 3 via Expect.  Not
> that I would.  I'm just wondering if I could.


You probably could if you created an Expect script to speak LMTP. I
think the major issue in this is that fetchmail does not provide the
envelope, so you don't know the actual envelope sender to use in the
LMTP MAIL FROM command. If the MDA that delivered the mail to the remote
mailbox was compliant, it will be in a Return-Path: header in the
message, but otherwise you'd have to fake it by using a Sender: or From:
header. Also, you don't directly know the original recipient, although
you can infer it based on the mailbox you fetched from.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman on google comput engine

[Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users]

On 3/24/19 11:50 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
This should work in Mailman 2, but won't in Mailman 3 (which expects 
incoming posts via LMTP).


Noted.  I think it would be possible to interject a shim between 
fetchmail that would extract what's necessary to speak LMTP to Mailman.


Is the LMTP still STDIN / STDOUT or something else (possibly a Unix socket)?

I'm trying to understand if I could drive Mailman 3 via Expect.  Not 
that I would.  I'm just wondering if I could.




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Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman on google comput engine

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users writes:

 > I'm talking about bypassing the local MTA all together.  Pipe fetcmail's 
 > STDOUT to a wrapper script to extract the command and mailing list 
 > before piping it into the mailman executable with said command and 
 > mailing list.

This should work in Mailman 2, but won't in Mailman 3 (which expects
incoming posts via LMTP).

Steve
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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman on google comput engine

[Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users]

On 3/21/19 4:04 PM, Dimitri Maziuk via Mailman-Users wrote:
I honestly don't remember the details but if I was passing mail to 
local MTA configured as my home MX, I don't see why mailman wouldn't 
work behind that.


I think that it should.

I'm talking about bypassing the local MTA all together.  Pipe fetcmail's 
STDOUT to a wrapper script to extract the command and mailing list 
before piping it into the mailman executable with said command and 
mailing list.  Then have Mailman act as an SMTP client directly to an 
external MTA.  No local MTA period.




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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman on google comput engine

[Dimitri Maziuk via Mailman-Users]

On 3/21/19 3:57 PM, Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users wrote:

> Fetchmail itself is plenty common.  I had no idea that it was as common
> with Mailman.  209 hits on the link that Mark shared.

I honestly don't remember the details but if I was passing mail to local
MTA configured as my home MX, I don't see why mailman wouldn't work
behind that.

> The 45 messages mentioning UUCP surprises me more.
:)

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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman on google comput engine

[Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users]

On 3/21/19 2:05 PM, Dimitri Maziuk via Mailman-Users wrote:
IST vaguely R firing up fetchmail from a dip script to inject messages 
from my school mailbox into my local qmail... Plenty typical at the time.


Fetchmail itself is plenty common.  I had no idea that it was as common 
with Mailman.  209 hits on the link that Mark shared.


The 45 messages mentioning UUCP surprises me more.



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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman on google comput engine

[Dimitri Maziuk via Mailman-Users]

On 3/21/19 1:56 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 3/21/19 11:29 AM, Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users wrote:
>>
>> I see no technical reason why Mailman couldn't function via something
>> like fetchmail from a POP3 mailbox and SMTP Authentication to send.
...
>> It would be quite atypical.  But I think it should work.
> 
> 
> It's not as atypical as you think. See, e.g.,
> .

IST vaguely R firing up fetchmail from a dip script to inject messages
from my school mailbox into my local qmail... Plenty typical at the time.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman on google comput engine

[Mark Sapiro]

On 3/21/19 11:29 AM, Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users wrote:
> 
> I see no technical reason why Mailman couldn't function via something
> like fetchmail from a POP3 mailbox and SMTP Authentication to send.
> 
> Fetchmail would pull the messages from an external 3rd party email
> server, do a little processing on them to determine the command and list
> name before pipeing them into Mailman with said command and list name.
> Mailman would do it's thing, and then send the emails out using SMTP
> Authentication with the external 3rd party email server.
> 
> It would be quite atypical.  But I think it should work.


It's not as atypical as you think. See, e.g.,
.

Also, since Mailman 2.1.23, batteries are included for sending to a
remote MTA with SMTP Authentication.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman on google comput engine

[Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users]

On 3/21/19 11:58 AM, Adam Goldberg wrote:

There are ways around this.


I see no technical reason why Mailman couldn't function via something 
like fetchmail from a POP3 mailbox and SMTP Authentication to send.


Fetchmail would pull the messages from an external 3rd party email 
server, do a little processing on them to determine the command and list 
name before pipeing them into Mailman with said command and list name. 
Mailman would do it's thing, and then send the emails out using SMTP 
Authentication with the external 3rd party email server.


It would be quite atypical.  But I think it should work.

This might work for the OP.



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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman on google comput engine

[Adam Goldberg]

A consumer internet connection frequently has incoming port 25 simply blocked, 
and outgoing port 25 either blocked entirely or blocked for all but the ISP’s 
outgoing mail server.

There are ways around this.Consider duocircle.com “backup mx” service. 

> On Mar 21, 2019, at 1:44 PM, Mark Sapiro  wrote:
> 
> On 3/20/19 11:40 PM, 황병희 wrote:
>> i just did make one vm instance Ubuntu 18.04 on google compute
>> engine. barely i did install postfix at there. hmm if possible, i wish
>> to run mailing service for my family and me -- it needs a little bit some 
>> comunication plus some
>> records about family history. yes i want GNU Mailman very
>> much!!! google compute engine blocked port 25 by default. in this case i
>> can run mailman with other port (example 625)? again question, Mailman
>> can act with 625 or 1625 or 2625, ...?
> 
> 
> Are you talking incoming or outgoing mail. There are multiple pieces
> involved. If incoming port 25 is blocked, Postfix won't be able to
> receive incoming mail to the list and you're dead at that point.
> 
> Presumably, it is only outgoing port 25 that is blocked. By default
> Mailman delivers to the local MTA at localhost:25 which may or may not
> be blocked but probably isn't. You can change these by setting SMTPHOST
> and SMTPPORT in mm_cfg.py, but if you are going to deliver via the local
> Postfix, Postfix will relay the outgoing mail to port 25 at the
> recipient MXs. You can't really change that because you can't tell the
> recipient MXs to listen on other ports.
> 
> You can get Postfix to relay via another MTA, e.g. at your ISP, and
> authenticate to it.
> 
> If your Mailman is 2.1.23 or later (the Ubuntu 18.04 package is 2.1.26)
> you can get Mailman to relay directly to an outside MTA with
> authentication via the mm_cfg.py settings SMTP_AUTH, SMTP_USER,
> SMTP_PASSWD and SMTP_USE_TLS in addition to SMTPHOST and SMTPPORT.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
> --
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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman on google comput engine

[Mark Sapiro]

On 3/20/19 11:40 PM, 황병희 wrote:
> i just did make one vm instance Ubuntu 18.04 on google compute
> engine. barely i did install postfix at there. hmm if possible, i wish
> to run mailing service for my family and me -- it needs a little bit some 
> comunication plus some
> records about family history. yes i want GNU Mailman very
> much!!! google compute engine blocked port 25 by default. in this case i
> can run mailman with other port (example 625)? again question, Mailman
> can act with 625 or 1625 or 2625, ...?


Are you talking incoming or outgoing mail. There are multiple pieces
involved. If incoming port 25 is blocked, Postfix won't be able to
receive incoming mail to the list and you're dead at that point.

Presumably, it is only outgoing port 25 that is blocked. By default
Mailman delivers to the local MTA at localhost:25 which may or may not
be blocked but probably isn't. You can change these by setting SMTPHOST
and SMTPPORT in mm_cfg.py, but if you are going to deliver via the local
Postfix, Postfix will relay the outgoing mail to port 25 at the
recipient MXs. You can't really change that because you can't tell the
recipient MXs to listen on other ports.

You can get Postfix to relay via another MTA, e.g. at your ISP, and
authenticate to it.

If your Mailman is 2.1.23 or later (the Ubuntu 18.04 package is 2.1.26)
you can get Mailman to relay directly to an outside MTA with
authentication via the mm_cfg.py settings SMTP_AUTH, SMTP_USER,
SMTP_PASSWD and SMTP_USE_TLS in addition to SMTPHOST and SMTPPORT.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman on google comput engine

[Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users]

On 3/21/19 12:40 AM, 황병희 wrote:
in this case i can run mailman with other port (example 625)? again 
question, Mailman can act with 625 or 1625 or 2625, ...?


No.  Not directly.

Mailman is not a mail server.  You must have a mail server (daemon) sit 
in front of Mailman.


You can make that mail server listen on a different port.  However only 
the other servers you modify to communicate with that alternate port 
will be able to send email.


You really want port 25.  Or you need something else, likely 
specialized, to make things work.


(It's likely possible that something can fetch email from elsewhere and 
feed it into Mailman, but that's something specialized.)




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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman & DMARC policy = none?

[Richard Damon]

On 12/31/18 3:08 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 12/31/18 10:36 AM, David Gibbs via Mailman-Users wrote:
>> I'm curious as to how people are setting
>> 'dmarc_none_moderation_action'... which controls how Mailman handles
>> domains with a dmarc policy action of none (like gmail.com).
>>
>> Is there a compelling reason to set it to Yes so that messages from such
>> domains are munged or wrapped?
>
> No. There is no compelling reason to set it to Yes. It does not affect
> mail delivery. It only affects the reports sent by list recipient's
> service providers to the original From: domain which publishes p=none.
> Read the entire thread at
> . The originator of
> that bug report would like every Mailman list to apply
> dmarc_moderation_action unconditionally to posts From: domains that
> publish any DMARC policy including p=none.
>
> Implementing this as a list option does not satisfy the originator
> because he is concerned about mail From: his own domain which publishes
> p=none to lists operated by others which he does not control.
>
> It would have been better if this feature had never been implemented,
> and it is not in Mailman 3.
>
I would say that the 'backscatter' in the report is actual real
information telling the postmaster for the domain that their current
policies do not align with a a DMARC policy of reject (or maybe even
quarantine) as they are allowing there users to use RFC compliant
re-mailing systems (aka mailing lists) that don't naturally meet the
requirements of the (in my opinion poorly designed) DMARC system.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman & DMARC policy = none?

[Mark Sapiro]

On 12/31/18 10:36 AM, David Gibbs via Mailman-Users wrote:
> 
> I'm curious as to how people are setting
> 'dmarc_none_moderation_action'... which controls how Mailman handles
> domains with a dmarc policy action of none (like gmail.com).
> 
> Is there a compelling reason to set it to Yes so that messages from such
> domains are munged or wrapped?


No. There is no compelling reason to set it to Yes. It does not affect
mail delivery. It only affects the reports sent by list recipient's
service providers to the original From: domain which publishes p=none.
Read the entire thread at
. The originator of
that bug report would like every Mailman list to apply
dmarc_moderation_action unconditionally to posts From: domains that
publish any DMARC policy including p=none.

Implementing this as a list option does not satisfy the originator
because he is concerned about mail From: his own domain which publishes
p=none to lists operated by others which he does not control.

It would have been better if this feature had never been implemented,
and it is not in Mailman 3.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman+Exim in Ubuntu

[Odhiambo Washington]

Hello Barry,

I was able to resolve this, using the Ubuntu package itself, so I do not
need to manually compile.
But it also gave me the impetus of learning how to manually compile stuff
in Linux .

Now that MM21 is running, I need help running MM3 alongside it and migrate
from 2.1
The main purpose of getting this particular VM was to get to run MM3.

For now, I think I am taking a sabbatical from MM2 list, headed to MM3
mailing list to seek support of someone willing to hand hold me with that
monster.


On Sun, 16 Dec 2018 at 18:44, Barry S. Finkel  wrote:

> On 12/16/2018 3:05 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
> > On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 at 20:13, Mark Sapiro  wrote:
> >
> >> On 12/15/18 1:35 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
> >>>
> >>> # User and group for Mailman, should match your --with-mail-gid
> >>> # switch to Mailman's configure script.  Value is normally "mailman"
> >>> MM_UID=list
> >>> MM_GID=list
> >>>
> >>> Now, posts cannot be delivered because:
> >>> 2018-12-15 00:00:58 1gXuEg-0006Hn-2J ** test...@lists.my.co.ke <
> >>> testing-boun...@lists.my.co.ke> R=mailman_router T=mailman_transport:
> >> Child
> >>> process of mailman_transport transport returned 2 from command:
> >>> /var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman
> >>
> >>
> >> Status = 2 is a group mismatch error as you apparently discovered.
> >>
> >
> > Yes, and got stumped as well.
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>> After consulting Google, I got advised to run a test:
> >>>
> >>> root@lists:/home/wash# /var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper post
> >>> Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail
> >>> wrapper script to be executed as group "daemon", but
> >>> the system's mail server executed the mail script as
> >>> group "root".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the
> >>> script as group "daemon", or re-run configure,
> >>> providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=root'
> >>
> >>
> >> This test is irrelevant. It would be expected to produce a group
> >> mismatch because you are running the wrapper as root:root and not as the
> >> user:group that Exim runs it as.
> >>
> >
> > Ah, that explains it. Every change I did to MM_UID and MM_GID was
> producing
> > that
> > error, leaving me wondering.
> >
> >
> >> Also, even in Debian/Ubuntu, the wrapper is normally named
> >> mailman/mail/mailman, not mailman/mail/wrapper, so I'm not sure what's
> >
> > going on here.
> >>
> >
> > I saw the wrapper is a symlink so I did not find it odd to just use the
> > name.
> >
> > root@lists:/home/wash# cd /var/lib/mailman/mail/
> > root@lists:/var/lib/mailman/mail# ls -al
> > total 24
> > drwxrwsr-x 2 root list  4096 Dec 15 13:51 .
> > drwxr-xr-x 7 root list  4096 Dec 15 13:44 ..
> > -rwxr-sr-x 1 root list 14672 Nov 30 19:01 mailman
> > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 7 Nov 30 19:01 wrapper -> mailman
> > root@lists:/var/lib/mailman/mail#
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> As far as how to fix it, this is really a Debian/Ubuntu question. See
> >> .
> >>
> >>
> >> That said, there are a couple of things going on here:
> >>
> >> It appears from your above test that the expected group is 'daemon'.
> >> This is strange as in Debian/Ubuntu , it is normally 'list' which is why
> >> in your Exim config you have MM_GID=list. You could try MM_GID=daemon to
> >> fix this.
> >>
> >> The Debian/Ubuntu package has patches to avoid the group mismatch test
> >> if the real gid of the caller is < 100 or = 65534.
> >>
> >> My recomendation, especially if you want help from this list is to junk
> >> the Ubuntu package and install from source.
> >>
> >
> > Actually, you've just woken me up - install from source :-)
> > I just don't seem to get things right with packages I am not sure how to
> > manipulate because
> > I am not too familiar with the OS. I just did not think about installing
> > from source, because I
> > was relying on all the supposedly working HOWTOs online, so I wanted to
> > leave the ecosystem
> > as natural as possible.
> >
> >
>
>
> When I was managing a Mailman installation on Ubuntu, I looked at the
> Debian/Ubuntu package, and it had a number of undocumented patches.
> I did not trust these, and I discovered that one patch deletes a file
> that is sometimes needed.  So, I took the Mailman source and built
> my own package.  I included a few patches from Mark that I needed,
> and I kept the D/U patches that put the files in the proper directories.
> The rest of the patches I discarded.  This was for, IIRC, Mailman 2.14.
> I assume that what I did would work for the current Mailman 2.x release.
> Those who want details can contact me off-list.
>
> --Barry Finkel
> --
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> 

Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman+Exim in Ubuntu

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 12/16/2018 3:05 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:

On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 at 20:13, Mark Sapiro  wrote:


On 12/15/18 1:35 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:


# User and group for Mailman, should match your --with-mail-gid
# switch to Mailman's configure script.  Value is normally "mailman"
MM_UID=list
MM_GID=list

Now, posts cannot be delivered because:
2018-12-15 00:00:58 1gXuEg-0006Hn-2J ** test...@lists.my.co.ke <
testing-boun...@lists.my.co.ke> R=mailman_router T=mailman_transport:

Child

process of mailman_transport transport returned 2 from command:
/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman



Status = 2 is a group mismatch error as you apparently discovered.



Yes, and got stumped as well.






After consulting Google, I got advised to run a test:

root@lists:/home/wash# /var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper post
Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail
wrapper script to be executed as group "daemon", but
the system's mail server executed the mail script as
group "root".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the
script as group "daemon", or re-run configure,
providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=root'



This test is irrelevant. It would be expected to produce a group
mismatch because you are running the wrapper as root:root and not as the
user:group that Exim runs it as.



Ah, that explains it. Every change I did to MM_UID and MM_GID was producing
that
error, leaving me wondering.



Also, even in Debian/Ubuntu, the wrapper is normally named
mailman/mail/mailman, not mailman/mail/wrapper, so I'm not sure what's


going on here.




I saw the wrapper is a symlink so I did not find it odd to just use the
name.

root@lists:/home/wash# cd /var/lib/mailman/mail/
root@lists:/var/lib/mailman/mail# ls -al
total 24
drwxrwsr-x 2 root list  4096 Dec 15 13:51 .
drwxr-xr-x 7 root list  4096 Dec 15 13:44 ..
-rwxr-sr-x 1 root list 14672 Nov 30 19:01 mailman
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 7 Nov 30 19:01 wrapper -> mailman
root@lists:/var/lib/mailman/mail#





As far as how to fix it, this is really a Debian/Ubuntu question. See
.


That said, there are a couple of things going on here:

It appears from your above test that the expected group is 'daemon'.
This is strange as in Debian/Ubuntu , it is normally 'list' which is why
in your Exim config you have MM_GID=list. You could try MM_GID=daemon to
fix this.

The Debian/Ubuntu package has patches to avoid the group mismatch test
if the real gid of the caller is < 100 or = 65534.

My recomendation, especially if you want help from this list is to junk
the Ubuntu package and install from source.



Actually, you've just woken me up - install from source :-)
I just don't seem to get things right with packages I am not sure how to
manipulate because
I am not too familiar with the OS. I just did not think about installing
from source, because I
was relying on all the supposedly working HOWTOs online, so I wanted to
leave the ecosystem
as natural as possible.





When I was managing a Mailman installation on Ubuntu, I looked at the
Debian/Ubuntu package, and it had a number of undocumented patches.
I did not trust these, and I discovered that one patch deletes a file
that is sometimes needed.  So, I took the Mailman source and built
my own package.  I included a few patches from Mark that I needed,
and I kept the D/U patches that put the files in the proper directories.
The rest of the patches I discarded.  This was for, IIRC, Mailman 2.14.
I assume that what I did would work for the current Mailman 2.x release.
Those who want details can contact me off-list.

--Barry Finkel
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman+Exim in Ubuntu

[Odhiambo Washington]

On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 at 20:13, Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> On 12/15/18 1:35 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
> >
> > # User and group for Mailman, should match your --with-mail-gid
> > # switch to Mailman's configure script.  Value is normally "mailman"
> > MM_UID=list
> > MM_GID=list
> >
> > Now, posts cannot be delivered because:
> > 2018-12-15 00:00:58 1gXuEg-0006Hn-2J ** test...@lists.my.co.ke <
> > testing-boun...@lists.my.co.ke> R=mailman_router T=mailman_transport:
> Child
> > process of mailman_transport transport returned 2 from command:
> > /var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman
>
>
> Status = 2 is a group mismatch error as you apparently discovered.
>

Yes, and got stumped as well.


>
>
> > After consulting Google, I got advised to run a test:
> >
> > root@lists:/home/wash# /var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper post
> > Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail
> > wrapper script to be executed as group "daemon", but
> > the system's mail server executed the mail script as
> > group "root".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the
> > script as group "daemon", or re-run configure,
> > providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=root'
>
>
> This test is irrelevant. It would be expected to produce a group
> mismatch because you are running the wrapper as root:root and not as the
> user:group that Exim runs it as.
>

Ah, that explains it. Every change I did to MM_UID and MM_GID was producing
that
error, leaving me wondering.


> Also, even in Debian/Ubuntu, the wrapper is normally named
> mailman/mail/mailman, not mailman/mail/wrapper, so I'm not sure what's

going on here.
>

I saw the wrapper is a symlink so I did not find it odd to just use the
name.

root@lists:/home/wash# cd /var/lib/mailman/mail/
root@lists:/var/lib/mailman/mail# ls -al
total 24
drwxrwsr-x 2 root list  4096 Dec 15 13:51 .
drwxr-xr-x 7 root list  4096 Dec 15 13:44 ..
-rwxr-sr-x 1 root list 14672 Nov 30 19:01 mailman
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 7 Nov 30 19:01 wrapper -> mailman
root@lists:/var/lib/mailman/mail#



>
> As far as how to fix it, this is really a Debian/Ubuntu question. See
> .
>
>
> That said, there are a couple of things going on here:
>
> It appears from your above test that the expected group is 'daemon'.
> This is strange as in Debian/Ubuntu , it is normally 'list' which is why
> in your Exim config you have MM_GID=list. You could try MM_GID=daemon to
> fix this.
>
> The Debian/Ubuntu package has patches to avoid the group mismatch test
> if the real gid of the caller is < 100 or = 65534.
>
> My recomendation, especially if you want help from this list is to junk
> the Ubuntu package and install from source.
>

Actually, you've just woken me up - install from source :-)
I just don't seem to get things right with packages I am not sure how to
manipulate because
I am not too familiar with the OS. I just did not think about installing
from source, because I
was relying on all the supposedly working HOWTOs online, so I wanted to
leave the ecosystem
as natural as possible.


-- 
Best regards,
Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
+254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223
"Oh, the cruft."
--
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman+Exim in Ubuntu

[Dmitri Maziuk via Mailman-Users]

On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 09:13:27 -0800
Mark Sapiro  wrote:
 
> My recomendation, especially if you want help from this list is to
> junk the Ubuntu package and install from source.

I would recommend ditching ubuntu, too, and going with something that
a) isn't systemd and b) comes with postfix. If I were doing this, I'd
be tempted to try alpine w/ mailman from source. 

(We run centos 6 on servers and so far I don't see any upgrade path for
them that involves either readhat- or debian-based distributions. In
fact, *BSD looks like a better option than any of them at the moment.)


-- 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman+Exim in Ubuntu

[Mark Sapiro]

On 12/15/18 1:35 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
> 
> # User and group for Mailman, should match your --with-mail-gid
> # switch to Mailman's configure script.  Value is normally "mailman"
> MM_UID=list
> MM_GID=list
> 
> Now, posts cannot be delivered because:
> 2018-12-15 00:00:58 1gXuEg-0006Hn-2J ** test...@lists.my.co.ke <
> testing-boun...@lists.my.co.ke> R=mailman_router T=mailman_transport: Child
> process of mailman_transport transport returned 2 from command:
> /var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman


Status = 2 is a group mismatch error as you apparently discovered.


> After consulting Google, I got advised to run a test:
> 
> root@lists:/home/wash# /var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper post
> Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail
> wrapper script to be executed as group "daemon", but
> the system's mail server executed the mail script as
> group "root".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the
> script as group "daemon", or re-run configure,
> providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=root'


This test is irrelevant. It would be expected to produce a group
mismatch because you are running the wrapper as root:root and not as the
user:group that Exim runs it as.

Also, even in Debian/Ubuntu, the wrapper is normally named
mailman/mail/mailman, not mailman/mail/wrapper, so I'm not sure what's
going on here.

As far as how to fix it, this is really a Debian/Ubuntu question. See
.


That said, there are a couple of things going on here:

It appears from your above test that the expected group is 'daemon'.
This is strange as in Debian/Ubuntu , it is normally 'list' which is why
in your Exim config you have MM_GID=list. You could try MM_GID=daemon to
fix this.

The Debian/Ubuntu package has patches to avoid the group mismatch test
if the real gid of the caller is < 100 or = 65534.

My recomendation, especially if you want help from this list is to junk
the Ubuntu package and install from source.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
--
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 on Ubuntu 18.04

[Odhiambo Washington]

On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 at 22:37, Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> On 12/9/18 10:14 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
> >
> > In my quest to run Mailman3, I obtained a VM running Ubuntu 18.04 and
> > started on getting to run Mailman3.
> > I found this link -> https://github.com/iomarmochtar/mailman3_ei
> > It has instructions which looked fairly simple to get Mailman3 installed.
> > However, I did encounter some hitches since the script is not meant for
> > Ubuntu.
>
>
> First, a more appropriate list for Mailman 3 is
> mailman-us...@mailman3.org
> .
>

I am shifting to that list, after this.


>
> Also, we find it very difficult to address issues arising from third
> party packages and how-tos. See .
>
> And, there is a Mailman 3 package for Debian/Ubuntu
>
> apt install mailman3-full
>

In all my searching, I never found this in any documentation. I must have
been searching in the wild, or my FreeBSD-mindedness got me stuck to
containers and VENVs.


> > With a few runs and observing the logs and modifying the script at every
> > step it encountered and error, I finally managed to install Mailman3. It
> > seems this is what you guys call a virtual environment in the Linux
> world?
> > :-)
>
>
> I think the virtual environment in this case is a Python thing, not a
> Linux thing.
>

I agree with you on that.


> 
>
>
> Much of what I snipped is specific to
> , the details of which I'm
> not interested in learning.
>

That is fine. I have put it aside for now.


>
>
> >>From this point now is where I need help - serious help in smoothening
> > things up and getting to understand these venv stuff!
> >
> > So I did run 'service mailman3 start' but this seems to be waiting for
> too
> > long to drop me back into the CLI.
> > I also run 'systemctl start supervisord' and that seems to work. What I
> am
> > not sure is whether 'systemctl stop supervisord' actually does what it is
> > expected to do because after I execute it, I still see processes running
> > that I think are related.
> >
> > So far, I have been able to access the webUI on my VM using
> > https://N.N.N.N:9090
> > I created a domain.
> > But when I create a test list, I get an error - and I do not have a clue
> > which logfile would have the error details - nginx or mailman... (I am
> 100%
> > new to nginx).
>
>
> The nginx logs generally aren't too useful. Both Mailman core and Django
> write logs. Core's log is probably in var/log/mailman.log where is
> defined in mailman.cfg as var_dir. Django's log is defined in Django's
> settings in the LOGGING setting.
>

Which file contains Django's settings?


> > So now, I am stuck at:
> > 1. Creating the mailing list
> > 2. Getting to know whether the archiver is installed and running
> > 3. Knowing is there are cron jobs to be running (Mailman2 type of
> thinking!)
>
>
> See
>  >
> and
> <
> http://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/config-web.html#scheduled-tasks-required
> >
>

Great to see that. I'll read and see if I make heads or tails of the
writeup.


> > Ultimately I need to figure out:
> > 1. How the mailman queue runners are started and stopped
>
> mailman start
>

Why not systemctl mailman start?? Just wondering, as that is what I am
seeing is common in Ubuntu.
Does this make the components start after a reboot?



> > 2. Migrate s few lists from Mailman2 to this Mailman3
>
> mailman import21
>  hyperkitty_import
>

Please show me where that is documented. I have to pull my lists from an
old machine to this new one.


> > 3. Mailman3 should use MySQL storage and Exim4 as the MTA (I have
> > configured these bits in mailman.cfg)
>
>
> You also need to configure MySQL in Django. See the DATABASES setting in
> the Django settings.
>

So, when you talk about Django settings, you are referring to mailman.cfg
file??? :-)

I have spent all my weekend till now, trying to figure all this out. Life
seems a little easier with mm2.x 

Thank you.


-- 
Best regards,
Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
+254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223
"Oh, the cruft."
--
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 on Ubuntu 18.04

[Mark Sapiro]

On 12/9/18 10:14 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
> 
> In my quest to run Mailman3, I obtained a VM running Ubuntu 18.04 and
> started on getting to run Mailman3.
> I found this link -> https://github.com/iomarmochtar/mailman3_ei
> It has instructions which looked fairly simple to get Mailman3 installed.
> However, I did encounter some hitches since the script is not meant for
> Ubuntu.


First, a more appropriate list for Mailman 3 is
mailman-us...@mailman3.org
.

Also, we find it very difficult to address issues arising from third
party packages and how-tos. See .

And, there is a Mailman 3 package for Debian/Ubuntu

apt install mailman3-full


> With a few runs and observing the logs and modifying the script at every
> step it encountered and error, I finally managed to install Mailman3. It
> seems this is what you guys call a virtual environment in the Linux world?
> :-)


I think the virtual environment in this case is a Python thing, not a
Linux thing.





Much of what I snipped is specific to
, the details of which I'm
not interested in learning.


>>From this point now is where I need help - serious help in smoothening
> things up and getting to understand these venv stuff!
> 
> So I did run 'service mailman3 start' but this seems to be waiting for too
> long to drop me back into the CLI.
> I also run 'systemctl start supervisord' and that seems to work. What I am
> not sure is whether 'systemctl stop supervisord' actually does what it is
> expected to do because after I execute it, I still see processes running
> that I think are related.
> 
> So far, I have been able to access the webUI on my VM using
> https://N.N.N.N:9090
> I created a domain.
> But when I create a test list, I get an error - and I do not have a clue
> which logfile would have the error details - nginx or mailman... (I am 100%
> new to nginx).


The nginx logs generally aren't too useful. Both Mailman core and Django
write logs. Core's log is probably in var/log/mailman.log where is
defined in mailman.cfg as var_dir. Django's log is defined in Django's
settings in the LOGGING setting.


> So now, I am stuck at:
> 1. Creating the mailing list
> 2. Getting to know whether the archiver is installed and running
> 3. Knowing is there are cron jobs to be running (Mailman2 type of thinking!)


See

and



> Ultimately I need to figure out:
> 1. How the mailman queue runners are started and stopped

mailman start


> 2. Migrate s few lists from Mailman2 to this Mailman3

mailman import21
 hyperkitty_import


> 3. Mailman3 should use MySQL storage and Exim4 as the MTA (I have
> configured these bits in mailman.cfg)


You also need to configure MySQL in Django. See the DATABASES setting in
the Django settings.
 --
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
--
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman subscription/unsubscription reports

[Odhiambo Washington]

On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 at 03:47, Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> On 12/7/18 2:12 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
> > On Fri, 7 Dec 2018 at 07:27, Mark Sapiro  wrote:
> >
> >> On 12/3/18 4:55 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
> >>> Hi All,
> >>>
> >>> I am running a list that has members joining and leaving.
> >>> I'd like to get an inside of these changes:
> >>> 1. how many members joined last month, this month..
> >>> 2. How many members left last month, this month, this year.
> >>
> >>
> >> I had some time to play with this so check out
> >>  (mirrored at
> >> )
> >>
> >> If this is close to useful for you, I'm willing to tweak it if you want
> >> changes.
> >
> >
> > It is definitely very very useful. Thank you very much for putting this
> > together.
> >
> >
> >
> >> As it is, you can feed it a mailman subscribe log covering some period
> >> and it will report the most recent join/leave event by list and user for
> >> the whole log or, if specified, a most recent number of days.
> >>
> >> Run it under Python3 (it will work with Python 2) with the --help option
> >> for more info.
> >>
> >
> > I have tested it and notice that I need a few changesmods:
> >
> > 1. Give it the -l option to specify a listname (yes, my server has
> several
> > lists)
> > 2. The current -l should probably be changed to -f for specifying the
> > subscribe filename/path
> > 3. Since the subscribe log has dates, maybe -d should instead be used to
> > parse for and then group by month??
> > Or perhaps you can add an option to specify the month you want, like
> > Jan, Feb, so a '-m Nov' will give the join/leave for November..
> > 4. To make it a little fancier, you can display the results in some
> > tabulated format:
> >
> > Mailman Subscription Report for $Month
> > -
> > LISTNAME ---JOINED-LEFT
> > list1152
> > list2  812
> > 
>
>
> I have updated the script at
>  (mirrored at
> )
>
> It doesn't do exactly what you asked for, but it has a -l/--list option
> which may be repeated for multiple lists and it prints a summary line
>
>   For this list, joined = xx, left = xx
>
> for each list processed. If you want to see only the list name and
> summary you can pipe the output through
>
> sed '/^/d'
>
> The biggest difference is there is no month option per se, but there are
> options to specify begin and end dates so for example to see only
> November you would specify
>
>  --begin=2018-11-01 --end=2018-11-30
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
>

Hi Mark,

Thank you so much. This is awesome.
It's good enough for me to get the stats by month if I run it monthly, at
the end of the month, with  --begin referencing the right date.

Thank you once again.

--
Best regards,
Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
+254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223
"Oh, the cruft."
--
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman subscription/unsubscription reports

[Mark Sapiro]

On 12/7/18 2:12 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Dec 2018 at 07:27, Mark Sapiro  wrote:
> 
>> On 12/3/18 4:55 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> I am running a list that has members joining and leaving.
>>> I'd like to get an inside of these changes:
>>> 1. how many members joined last month, this month..
>>> 2. How many members left last month, this month, this year.
>>
>>
>> I had some time to play with this so check out
>>  (mirrored at
>> )
>>
>> If this is close to useful for you, I'm willing to tweak it if you want
>> changes.
> 
> 
> It is definitely very very useful. Thank you very much for putting this
> together.
> 
> 
> 
>> As it is, you can feed it a mailman subscribe log covering some period
>> and it will report the most recent join/leave event by list and user for
>> the whole log or, if specified, a most recent number of days.
>>
>> Run it under Python3 (it will work with Python 2) with the --help option
>> for more info.
>>
> 
> I have tested it and notice that I need a few changesmods:
> 
> 1. Give it the -l option to specify a listname (yes, my server has several
> lists)
> 2. The current -l should probably be changed to -f for specifying the
> subscribe filename/path
> 3. Since the subscribe log has dates, maybe -d should instead be used to
> parse for and then group by month??
> Or perhaps you can add an option to specify the month you want, like
> Jan, Feb, so a '-m Nov' will give the join/leave for November..
> 4. To make it a little fancier, you can display the results in some
> tabulated format:
> 
> Mailman Subscription Report for $Month
> -
> LISTNAME ---JOINED-LEFT
> list1152
> list2  812
> 


I have updated the script at
 (mirrored at
)

It doesn't do exactly what you asked for, but it has a -l/--list option
which may be repeated for multiple lists and it prints a summary line

  For this list, joined = xx, left = xx

for each list processed. If you want to see only the list name and
summary you can pipe the output through

sed '/^/d'

The biggest difference is there is no month option per se, but there are
options to specify begin and end dates so for example to see only
November you would specify

 --begin=2018-11-01 --end=2018-11-30

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
--
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman subscription/unsubscription reports

[Odhiambo Washington]

On Fri, 7 Dec 2018 at 07:27, Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> On 12/3/18 4:55 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I am running a list that has members joining and leaving.
> > I'd like to get an inside of these changes:
> > 1. how many members joined last month, this month..
> > 2. How many members left last month, this month, this year.
>
>
> I had some time to play with this so check out
>  (mirrored at
> )
>
> If this is close to useful for you, I'm willing to tweak it if you want
> changes.


It is definitely very very useful. Thank you very much for putting this
together.



> As it is, you can feed it a mailman subscribe log covering some period
> and it will report the most recent join/leave event by list and user for
> the whole log or, if specified, a most recent number of days.
>
> Run it under Python3 (it will work with Python 2) with the --help option
> for more info.
>

I have tested it and notice that I need a few changesmods:

1. Give it the -l option to specify a listname (yes, my server has several
lists)
2. The current -l should probably be changed to -f for specifying the
subscribe filename/path
3. Since the subscribe log has dates, maybe -d should instead be used to
parse for and then group by month??
Or perhaps you can add an option to specify the month you want, like
Jan, Feb, so a '-m Nov' will give the join/leave for November..
4. To make it a little fancier, you can display the results in some
tabulated format:

Mailman Subscription Report for $Month
-
LISTNAME ---JOINED-LEFT
list1152
list2  812



With the MONTH option available, I can then simply run it from cron to get
reports like:
mydate = 'date +%b'
./subscribe_log.py --f /usr/local/mailman/logs/subscribe -l listname -d
$mydate | mail -s "Mailman Subscription Status" j...@doe.com

So far that is all in my request.

Once again, thank you very much.




-- 
Best regards,
Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
+254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223
"Oh, the cruft."
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman subscription/unsubscription reports

[Mark Sapiro]

On 12/3/18 4:55 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I am running a list that has members joining and leaving.
> I'd like to get an inside of these changes:
> 1. how many members joined last month, this month..
> 2. How many members left last month, this month, this year.


I had some time to play with this so check out
 (mirrored at
)

If this is close to useful for you, I'm willing to tweak it if you want
changes.

As it is, you can feed it a mailman subscribe log covering some period
and it will report the most recent join/leave event by list and user for
the whole log or, if specified, a most recent number of days.

Run it under Python3 (it will work with Python 2) with the --help option
for more info.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman subscription/unsubscription reports

[Odhiambo Washington]

On Mon, 3 Dec 2018 at 17:55, Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> On 12/3/18 6:35 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
> >
> > Mark, how about a request to incorporate those options in the following
> > script?
> >
> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/annotate/head%3A/contrib/mmdsr
> >
> > I am thinking that for you, it'd would be clear (probably simpler) what
> > needs to be added.
>
>
> mmdsr is not the appropriate vehicle for this. It is designed to run at
> midnight and report things from the previous 24 hours which is not what
> you want.
>
> A generic solution is also difficult because you want to look at a
> complete subscribe log from the last year. Creating/accessing such a log
> is site specific even if all the pieces are available due to varying log
> rotation/preservation strategies.
>

Well understood.

Now the need to run MM3 rears its head once again!


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Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
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+254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223
"Oh, the cruft."
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman subscription/unsubscription reports

[Mark Sapiro]

On 12/3/18 6:35 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
> 
> Mark, how about a request to incorporate those options in the following
> script?
> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/annotate/head%3A/contrib/mmdsr
> 
> I am thinking that for you, it'd would be clear (probably simpler) what
> needs to be added.


mmdsr is not the appropriate vehicle for this. It is designed to run at
midnight and report things from the previous 24 hours which is not what
you want.

A generic solution is also difficult because you want to look at a
complete subscribe log from the last year. Creating/accessing such a log
is site specific even if all the pieces are available due to varying log
rotation/preservation strategies.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman subscription/unsubscription reports

[Odhiambo Washington]

On Mon, 3 Dec 2018 at 17:11, Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> On 12/3/18 4:55 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I am running a list that has members joining and leaving.
> > I'd like to get an inside of these changes:
> > 1. how many members joined last month, this month..
> > 2. How many members left last month, this month, this year.
> >
> > I keep the log files so I Believe I can get this information, but
> wondering
> > if someone already did the script so I don't have to re-invent.
>
>
> Analyzing the logs is the way to do this.  I'm not aware of any scripts
> to do what you want, but creating one shouldn't be hard.
>
>
I thought so too.


>
> > Would it be such a long shot to have mailman recording "joined date" for
> > the members of a list? So at least we can see "Member since -MM-DD"
> in
> > the roster?
>
>
> This won't happen for Mailman 2.1.
>

Noted.


>
> For Mailman 3, you can submit an RFE at
> .
>

Heheee... I am one of those people who have all the time wished to run MM3,
but it seems it's not possible/easy on FreeBSD.
Not being a coder, I am one of those who will just stick to the MM2 forever
:-)

Mark, how about a request to incorporate those options in the following
script?
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/annotate/head%3A/contrib/mmdsr

I am thinking that for you, it'd would be clear (probably simpler) what
needs to be added.

-- 
Best regards,
Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
+254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223
"Oh, the cruft."
--
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman subscription/unsubscription reports

[Mark Sapiro]

On 12/3/18 4:55 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I am running a list that has members joining and leaving.
> I'd like to get an inside of these changes:
> 1. how many members joined last month, this month..
> 2. How many members left last month, this month, this year.
> 
> I keep the log files so I Believe I can get this information, but wondering
> if someone already did the script so I don't have to re-invent.


Analyzing the logs is the way to do this.  I'm not aware of any scripts
to do what you want, but creating one shouldn't be hard.


> Would it be such a long shot to have mailman recording "joined date" for
> the members of a list? So at least we can see "Member since -MM-DD" in
> the roster?


This won't happen for Mailman 2.1.

For Mailman 3, you can submit an RFE at
.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman subscription/unsubscription reports

[Richard Damon]

On 12/3/18 7:55 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I am running a list that has members joining and leaving.
> I'd like to get an inside of these changes:
> 1. how many members joined last month, this month..
> 2. How many members left last month, this month, this year.
>
> I keep the log files so I Believe I can get this information, but wondering
> if someone already did the script so I don't have to re-invent.
> Would it be such a long shot to have mailman recording "joined date" for
> the members of a list? So at least we can see "Member since -MM-DD" in
> the roster?
>
Mailman can send you a notification for every subscription /
unsubscription event on the list. Just have your email program filter
those into folders and sort them by date and you can get those numbers
by simple inspection of those email folders.

-- 
Richard Damon

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 on Docker

[Odhiambo Washington]

I'll try that then.

On Fri, Nov 23, 2018, 19:43 Andrew Hodgson  Hi,
>
> Can't you just use the relevant volume mounts to the Windows box?  I have
> ran these containers on Windows when I did testing, although I ran Postgres
> outside of the containers on the Windows machine itself as I have seen
> issues with volume mounts for that one.
>
> Andrew.
>
> 
> From: Odhiambo Washington [odhia...@gmail.com]
> Sent: 23 November 2018 16:23
> To: Andrew Hodgson
> Cc: mailman-users@python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 on Docker
>
> I looked at the link you've suggested and it seems like it's meant for
> someone running docker on Linux, not Windows which is what I'm trying to
> test this on. The mkdir /opt..
>
> On Fri, Nov 23, 2018, 19:02 Andrew Hodgson  and...@hodgson.io> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> As that uses Mailman-Bundler now its probably not the best way even if it
> still works.  I would recommend looking at the repo here:
>
> https://github.com/maxking/docker-mailman
>
> Hope this helps.
> Andrew.
> 
> From: Mailman-Users [mailman-users-bounces+andrew=hodgson...@python.org
> <mailto:hodgson...@python.org>] on behalf of Odhiambo Washington [
> odhia...@gmail.com<mailto:odhia...@gmail.com>]
> Sent: 23 November 2018 15:06
> To: mailman-users@python.org<mailto:mailman-users@python.org>
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 on Docker
>
> Hi,
>
> I am wondering if the instructions given in
> https://wiki.list.org/DEV/Mailman%203.0/Mailman%203.0%20Suite%20Dockerfile
> are still valid.
> I am running Docker on Windows, and following these instructions, but it
> fails with:
>
> docker build -t mailman3 .
> .
> .
> .
> ln: failed to create symbolic link '/usr/bin/node': File exists
> The command '/bin/sh -c apt-get install -y nodejs npm && npm install -g
> less && ln -s /usr/bin/nodejs /usr/bin/node' returned a non-zero code:
> 1
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
> Nairobi,KE
> +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223
> "Oh, the cruft."
> --
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org Mailman-Users@python.org>
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
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> Unsubscribe:
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>
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 on Docker

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi,

Can't you just use the relevant volume mounts to the Windows box?  I have ran 
these containers on Windows when I did testing, although I ran Postgres outside 
of the containers on the Windows machine itself as I have seen issues with 
volume mounts for that one.

Andrew.


From: Odhiambo Washington [odhia...@gmail.com]
Sent: 23 November 2018 16:23
To: Andrew Hodgson
Cc: mailman-users@python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 on Docker

I looked at the link you've suggested and it seems like it's meant for someone 
running docker on Linux, not Windows which is what I'm trying to test this on. 
The mkdir /opt..

On Fri, Nov 23, 2018, 19:02 Andrew Hodgson 
mailto:and...@hodgson.io> wrote:
Hi,

As that uses Mailman-Bundler now its probably not the best way even if it still 
works.  I would recommend looking at the repo here:

https://github.com/maxking/docker-mailman

Hope this helps.
Andrew.

From: Mailman-Users 
[mailman-users-bounces+andrew=hodgson...@python.org<mailto:hodgson...@python.org>]
 on behalf of Odhiambo Washington 
[odhia...@gmail.com<mailto:odhia...@gmail.com>]
Sent: 23 November 2018 15:06
To: mailman-users@python.org<mailto:mailman-users@python.org>
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 on Docker

Hi,

I am wondering if the instructions given in
https://wiki.list.org/DEV/Mailman%203.0/Mailman%203.0%20Suite%20Dockerfile
are still valid.
I am running Docker on Windows, and following these instructions, but it
fails with:

docker build -t mailman3 .
.
.
.
ln: failed to create symbolic link '/usr/bin/node': File exists
The command '/bin/sh -c apt-get install -y nodejs npm && npm install -g
less && ln -s /usr/bin/nodejs /usr/bin/node' returned a non-zero code: 1


--
Best regards,
Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
+254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223
"Oh, the cruft."
--
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 on Docker

[Odhiambo Washington]

I looked at the link you've suggested and it seems like it's meant for
someone running docker on Linux, not Windows which is what I'm trying to
test this on. The mkdir /opt..

On Fri, Nov 23, 2018, 19:02 Andrew Hodgson  Hi,
>
> As that uses Mailman-Bundler now its probably not the best way even if it
> still works.  I would recommend looking at the repo here:
>
> https://github.com/maxking/docker-mailman
>
> Hope this helps.
> Andrew.
> 
> From: Mailman-Users [mailman-users-bounces+andrew=hodgson...@python.org]
> on behalf of Odhiambo Washington [odhia...@gmail.com]
> Sent: 23 November 2018 15:06
> To: mailman-users@python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 on Docker
>
> Hi,
>
> I am wondering if the instructions given in
> https://wiki.list.org/DEV/Mailman%203.0/Mailman%203.0%20Suite%20Dockerfile
> are still valid.
> I am running Docker on Windows, and following these instructions, but it
> fails with:
>
> docker build -t mailman3 .
> .
> .
> .
> ln: failed to create symbolic link '/usr/bin/node': File exists
> The command '/bin/sh -c apt-get install -y nodejs npm && npm install -g
> less && ln -s /usr/bin/nodejs /usr/bin/node' returned a non-zero code:
> 1
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
> Nairobi,KE
> +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223
> "Oh, the cruft."
> --
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
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> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/andrew%40hodgson.io
>
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 on Docker

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi,

As that uses Mailman-Bundler now its probably not the best way even if it still 
works.  I would recommend looking at the repo here:

https://github.com/maxking/docker-mailman

Hope this helps.
Andrew.

From: Mailman-Users [mailman-users-bounces+andrew=hodgson...@python.org] on 
behalf of Odhiambo Washington [odhia...@gmail.com]
Sent: 23 November 2018 15:06
To: mailman-users@python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 on Docker

Hi,

I am wondering if the instructions given in
https://wiki.list.org/DEV/Mailman%203.0/Mailman%203.0%20Suite%20Dockerfile
are still valid.
I am running Docker on Windows, and following these instructions, but it
fails with:

docker build -t mailman3 .
.
.
.
ln: failed to create symbolic link '/usr/bin/node': File exists
The command '/bin/sh -c apt-get install -y nodejs npm && npm install -g
less && ln -s /usr/bin/nodejs /usr/bin/node' returned a non-zero code: 1


--
Best regards,
Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
+254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223
"Oh, the cruft."
--
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.18 - Users can not subscribe to mailing list

[Mark Sapiro]

On 11/8/18 2:24 PM, Bastian Binder wrote:
>  
> The error occurs only on 2 mailing lists. The other mailing lists work fine. 
> The mailman configuration has not changed. The main difference to the working 
> lists is, that in the Form-URL on the listinfo page does forward to an URL 
> where a "/cgi-bin" is added before "/mailman.."


The redirect loses the POST data.

You need to ensure that your setting for DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN is what you
want, perhaps something like

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/cgi-bin/'

or maybe https, and then run fix_url on the problem lists. See
 and .

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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 and EAI

[Mark Sapiro]

On 11/8/18 1:19 AM, Russ Housley wrote:
> As far as I can tell, Mailman 3 will not let me include an EAI email
> address as a mail list recipient.  This was discussed more that two
> years ago, but I do not think the support in Mailman 3 has changed.


Correct. It is still not supported.

Also, a better list for discussion of Mailman 3 is
.

-- 
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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman & DMARC question

[Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users]

On Mon, 2018-11-05 at 10:07 -0600, David Gibbs wrote:
> My quandary is: Is there any risk in implementing my own more
> restrictive DMARC policy?
> 
> Currently my DMARC policy is 'p=none' ... but I'd like to change that
> to 'p=quarantine'.
> 
> Is there any risk running mailing lists from a domain with that DMARC
> policy?
> 
> My theory is that there isn't ... since DMARC is mainly concerned with
> the from address and, as long as mail sent from my domain aligns with
> the DMARC policy, everything should be good.
> 
> Is this correct ... or am I missing something?

You are correct, as long as the SPF and DKIM align you can set a
restrictive DMARC policy.  In addition to your p=none, you should add
ruf= and rua= stanzas so that you can see today what impact your present
DMARC settings have.

DMARC on your list domain will also help with any delivery issues for
list notifications, as well as any DMARC wrapped posts.

Further, you can test your setup by creating a test list, and then
subscribing and sending a list email to any of these:

  check-a...@verifier.port25.com 
  autore...@dmarctest.org
  autorespond+d...@dk.elandsys.com
  ch...@dmarcanalyzer.com
  checkmya...@auth.returnpath.net

-Jim P.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman generated email

[Mark Sapiro]

On 10/22/18 4:20 AM, Bernie Cosell wrote:
> 
> What's the definitive way to describe to him the [crontab?] mechanism that 
> generates the overnight "pending moder requests" message that mailman 
> generates.   He doesn't even understand that with the messages I forwarded to 
> him for comparison were generated by mailman -- he just mentioned that each 
> of 
> the two pending requests was a real user-sent message [of course true] but 
> doesn't see the forest [that that was mailman notification] for the trees 
> [the two 
> message currently pending].  ugh


Trying to get this resolved is probably futile. Particularly if the host
is running cPanel. cPanel includes Mailman in their distribution and
while some cPanel hosts are very good at supporting Mailman, others only
offer Mailman because it comes with cPanel and know nothing about
Mailman and don't want to learn.

That said, you could try to explain to him that in addition to
forwarding posts to list members, Mailman generates several different
kinds of notices on its own. In particular, the "nn moderator requests
waiting" message is generated by Mailman's cron/checkdbs job which is
intended to be run by cron once daily, however in your case, it appears
that this job is being run twice, either by two separate crontabs or two
entries in one crontab.

Good luck.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman architectural overview incomplete?

[Mark Sapiro]

On 10/21/18 2:42 PM, Dave Stevens wrote:
> This document:
> 
> http://terri.zone12.com/doc/mailman/mailman-admin.pdf
> 
> describes on p. 4 the basics of incoming queue management. But it stops
> with outgoing queue details absent. Is this written up somewhere?


If you're talking about section 2.4, replace the sentence "Messages in
the incoming queue may also be stored for appending to digests." with
"Messages in the incoming queue are finally stored in the outgoing queue
for distribution to regular members and added to a digest.mbox for
eventual distribution to digest members."

There really isn't more to say at that level.

For more detail about how outgoing messages are handled, see

and
.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Migration

[James Kelleway]

Thanks all for the great advice!

On Sat, Oct 6, 2018 at 3:22 PM Keith Seyffarth  wrote:

>
> > We have a client who uses mailman on a plesk server. They are in the
> > process of moving to a cpanel server but we have no experience with
> mailman
> > and were wondering if anyone experienced devs could give us a quote to
> > perform the migration for us? Please feel free to reach out with any
> > questions.
>
> First check to see what options you have from within cPanel, apparently
> some cPanel implementations come with a migration or transfer tool which
> is already set up to transfer sites from PLESK to cPanel. I haven't gone
> this direction, but I have transferred from cPanel to PLESK or from older
> versions of PLESK to newer versions of PLESK with the PLESK Migrate
> tool...
>
> If you don't have that option, you may want to check out
>
> https://forums.cpanel.net/threads/migrating-account-from-plesk-to-cpanel.303772/
> which appears to have information on a free transfer service...
>
> Keith
>
> --
> 
> from my mac to yours...
>
> Keith Seyffarth
> mailto:w...@weif.net
> http://www.weif.net/ - Home of the First Tank Guide!
> http://www.rpgcalendar.net/ - the Montana Role-Playing Calendar
> 
> http://www.miscon.org/ - Montana's Longest Running Science Fiction
> Convention
>


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Migration

[Keith Seyffarth]

> We have a client who uses mailman on a plesk server. They are in the
> process of moving to a cpanel server but we have no experience with mailman
> and were wondering if anyone experienced devs could give us a quote to
> perform the migration for us? Please feel free to reach out with any
> questions.

First check to see what options you have from within cPanel, apparently
some cPanel implementations come with a migration or transfer tool which
is already set up to transfer sites from PLESK to cPanel. I haven't gone
this direction, but I have transferred from cPanel to PLESK or from older
versions of PLESK to newer versions of PLESK with the PLESK Migrate
tool...

If you don't have that option, you may want to check out
https://forums.cpanel.net/threads/migrating-account-from-plesk-to-cpanel.303772/
which appears to have information on a free transfer service...

Keith

-- 

from my mac to yours...

Keith Seyffarth
mailto:w...@weif.net
http://www.weif.net/ - Home of the First Tank Guide!
http://www.rpgcalendar.net/ - the Montana Role-Playing Calendar

http://www.miscon.org/ - Montana's Longest Running Science Fiction Convention
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Migration

[Mark Sapiro]

On 10/05/2018 10:03 AM, James Kelleway wrote:
> 
> We have a client who uses mailman on a plesk server. They are in the
> process of moving to a cpanel server but we have no experience with mailman
> and were wondering if anyone experienced devs could give us a quote to
> perform the migration for us? Please feel free to reach out with any
> questions.


The process of moving Mailman 2.1 archives and lists from one server to
another is usually simple (see ), but
both cPanel and Plesk have their own modified Mailman instances which
are non-standard and differ from each other which might greatly
complicate this. See  and


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman consultants ?

[Mark Sapiro]

On 10/02/2018 12:49 PM, John Levine wrote:
> 
> Is there a list of people who do this kind of stuff?  Or is there
> some other place I should inquire?


There is a short list at
. There is
also a link there to the Python Jobs Board.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.X and HTTPS

[Mark Sapiro]

On 07/26/2018 04:48 AM, Richard Damon wrote:

> The issue is probably that the links still point to the http version,
> which is redirecting to the https and losing the form data. You need to
> change the config variable that gives the base page for the admin pages
> to point to the https version. (Someone more familiar with the details
> will need to provide those if my rough description isn't good enough).


Steps 2 through 4 at .

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.X and HTTPS

[Richard Damon]

On 7/26/18 7:26 AM, Jayson Smith wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
> I'm currently using 2.1.26. Recently I had LetsEncrypt add lines to my
> Apache configuration to redirect browsers from HTTP to HTTPS URLs.
> This morning I found that this doesn't seem to work well with Mailman
> database admin pages, I couldn't get Mailman to reject a held message
> until I commented out those Apache config lines. Is there a way to
> make Mailman work using HTTPS?
>
>
> My reason for the redirect is that I'd heard that browsers, in
> particular Chrome, are going to start warning about insecure sites.
> Does this mean if any URL begins with HTTP people will have to click
> through warnings, or is just the fact that HTTPS is available good
> enough, even if the user or link didn't specify HTTPS?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Jayson
The issue is probably that the links still point to the http version,
which is redirecting to the https and losing the form data. You need to
change the config variable that gives the base page for the admin pages
to point to the https version. (Someone more familiar with the details
will need to provide those if my rough description isn't good enough).

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Migrate 3.0 (beta) to 3.2

[Mark Sapiro]

On 07/25/2018 06:55 AM, Ryan McClung wrote:
> The mailman 3.0 install is on the same box as 3.2. Is there a quick and
> dirty way to flip over?


Other than updating your MTA and web server to point at the 3.2 install,
you need to ensure that 3.2 accesses the old 3.0 database(s) and after
doing so, run the django management 'migrate' command. The core's
migrations should be done automatically by alembic.

Note questions like this will reach a deeper pool of knowledgeable
people if asked on the mailman-us...@mailman3.org list


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.x to 3.1.x Migration

[Mark Sapiro]

On 07/25/2018 02:54 AM, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
> 
> Thanks for this; I am on the Docker version which is not updated yet.  once 
> it gets updated and I migrate to it, will I be able to re-import those 
> missing messages by running a complete import again or will this cause more 
> trouble now?


You can re-run the import with the complete mbox as long as you specify
--since= with a date older than any of the messages in the mbox. Without
that, it won't import anything because the messages will all be 'too old'.

Running with the full mbox will be OK as those messages with Message-ID:
headers will be detected as duplicates and won't be added a second time,
but if the mbox is large, it would be faster to run with just the
messages without Message-ID: headers, but possibly not faster overall
considering the effort to extract those messages.


> I did run cleanarch on the mbox before doing any of this import work and 
> didn't get any issues.  The lists all came from Mailman 2.1 (starting from 
> around 2.1.5).


That's expected. Since even somewhat before Mailman 2.1.5, archive
mboxes have been good. It's normally only those started on Mailman 2.0.x
(or older?) or mboxes imported from elsewhere that have significant issues.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.x to 3.1.x Migration

[Andrew Hodgson]

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>On 07/24/2018 06:32 AM, Andrew Hodgson wrote:

[...]

>> - There were older messages in the mbox without message-ids in the archive 
>> that failed to import.  I took the easy way out on this one and didn't 
>> import them.  In an archive with around 120,000 messages it rejected around 
>> 30 messages in all.

>This is , fixed in
>HyperKitty 1.2.0.

Thanks for this; I am on the Docker version which is not updated yet.  once it 
gets updated and I migrate to it, will I be able to re-import those missing 
messages by running a complete import again or will this cause more trouble now?

I did run cleanarch on the mbox before doing any of this import work and didn't 
get any issues.  The lists all came from Mailman 2.1 (starting from around 
2.1.5).

Thanks.
Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.x to 3.1.x Migration

[Mark Sapiro]

On 07/24/2018 06:32 AM, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
> 
> Once done you can see the results by navigating to your Mailman instance and 
> you can see the data about the list such as the creation date, number of 
> posts and the members.  For some reason on my instance the last post date is 
> still the last post from Mailman2, even though it has been running on 
> Mailman3 for a month or so.


This is , fixed in
Mailman 3.2.


> Import archives:
> Use the command python manage.py hyperkitty_import to get the private mbox 
> into your list.  I ran into 2 issues:
> 
> - If you have posts in the new archive on Mailman3 then you need to specify 
> the earliest date you want to import into the archive as the command won't 
> import anything older than the earliest date in the new archive.  If you run 
> the command with the help option you can see the format required;


Yes. I've thought about adding a --all option to import the entire mbox
regardless of date, but for now I just specify --since='1990-01-01'.


> - There were older messages in the mbox without message-ids in the archive 
> that failed to import.  I took the easy way out on this one and didn't import 
> them.  In an archive with around 120,000 messages it rejected around 30 
> messages in all.


This is , fixed in
HyperKitty 1.2.0.

There are other issues that haven't yet been fixed other than by my own,
unmerged patches. See 
and .

It really helps to have the import mbox as clean as possible before
starting. If it's a MM 2.1 mbox from a list created on MM 2.1.x, it's
probably pretty good, but if it's from a list created in MM 2.0 days, it
probably has issues. In any case, you need to check it for unescaped
'From ' lines with MM 2.1's bin/cleanarch. Even this isn't perfect, but
it helps.

Also, after you import archives, the Haystack search index will not
index those messages because they are not seen as new. Older versions of
hyperkitty_import would say that the Django minutely update_index job
would do it, but it won't. You can run

python manage.py update_index

to index those imported messages, but if you have a large installation
with multiple tens of thousands of archived messages, this can take
several hours. To help with this, there is now

python manage.py update_index_one_list

to do just a specified list. This too can take a long time (run it in
the background) if the imported archive was large, but it's often
preferable to doing the entire installation.

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