Re: [mailop] DKIM with 3072-bit or 4096-bit RSA signatures

[Florian Vierke via mailop]

Hi John,

I had the same question and the quoted sentence still doesn't explain the why 
for me. The key rotation explains, that it is possible to publish the keys 
without a harm for you, but I don't see a benefit for anybody in publishing the 
old private keys. If you do, I'd be interested in your opinion 

Thanks, Florian


-Original Message-
From: mailop  On Behalf Of John Levine via mailop
Sent: Donnerstag, 27. April 2023 00:23
To: mailop@mailop.org
Cc: oliver.gell...@dm.de
Subject: Re: [mailop] DKIM with 3072-bit or 4096-bit RSA signatures

This email has reached Mapp via an external source


It appears that Gellner, Oliver via mailop  said:
>
>> On 26.04.2023 at 04:30 John Levine via mailop wrote:
>>
>> I rotate my keys every month, and publish the old public keys on a
>> web site 10 days after the end of the month so anyone can fake an old
>> signature from me. There's a pointer to the web server in the DNS key
>> records.
>
>Hello John,
>
>is there a particular reason why you are publishing the old keys?

Um, I said why in the first sentence of the paragraph you quoted.

R's,
John
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Re: [mailop] freenet anybody?

[Florian Vierke via mailop]

Have you tried postmas...@freenet.de ?

I received feedback from there.

Regards,


Florian Vierke | Senior Manager, Deliverability Services
t: +49 89 12009713
e: florian.vie...@mapp.com

-Original Message-
From: mailop  On Behalf Of Hans-Martin Mosner via 
mailop
Sent: Donnerstag, 9. Juni 2022 12:37
To: mailop@mailop.org
Subject: Re: [mailop] freenet anybody?

This email has reached Mapp via an external source


Am 09.06.22 um 12:17 schrieb Heiko Schlittermann via mailop:
> Hi,
>
> I'm seeking a responsible person for freenet.de. We're running into
> their ratelimits and need more information, in order to track this
> issue on our side.
>
>  Best regards from Dresden/Germany
>  Viele Grüße aus Dresden
>  Heiko Schlittermann

I posted the same issue on May 25th. No response, so they don't seem to have 
anybody on this list.

It's gotten a little better after I implemented SRS, but it's not completely 
gone.

And it's somewhat unclear what their interpretation of "rate limiting" is - 
looks more like "we're blocking your mail until someone decides to unblock" :-)

Cheers,
Hans-Martin

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Re: [mailop] Yahoo FBL per IP Range?

[Florian Vierke via mailop]

Hi Benoit,

That's pretty much on top of my wishlist for Christmas as well, but so far 
there's no other option for adding domains to the Yahoo FBL.

Regards,


Florian Vierke | Senior Manager, Deliverability Services
t: +49 89 12009713
e: florian.vie...@mapp.com

-Original Message-
From: mailop  On Behalf Of Benoît Panizzon via mailop
Sent: Freitag, 22. April 2022 11:52
To: mailop@mailop.org
Subject: [mailop] Yahoo FBL per IP Range?

This email has reached Mapp via an external source


Hi List

I subscribed to the Yahoo FBL on after we got some 'low volume' phished account 
abused for spam and staying under our radar, targetting yahoo recipients which 
now tempfails our smtp outbound ip range for 'user complaints'.

https://io.help.yahoo.com/contact/index?page=contactform=en_US=Zh%2FBBVqXzLHlIbokbUqVWTUbuuQeXGkGnZzhKR2JQ4O6mMQdy9JSWdtWFXvjthcYCRj9bUIFfycOfG%2B4GOHPHoOGa8HwDO2%2B0kYRtTcdR8Nja5P9HWkKh3VWfS3pyu4UdjhvwG%2BBCvnYFl5dToDK%2Fw%3D%3D=email-icon

I added our ISP email service email domains. But we also host business customer 
domains on that email platform, which I can not all add.

Does anyone know, if it is possible, to register a IP Range for YFBL?

--
Mit freundlichen Grüssen

-Benoît Panizzon- @ HomeOffice und normal erreichbar
--
I m p r o W a r e   A G-Leiter Commerce Kunden
__

Zurlindenstrasse 29 Tel  +41 61 826 93 00
CH-4133 PrattelnFax  +41 61 826 93 01
Schweiz Web  http://www.imp.ch
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Re: [mailop] Anybody know Anthony Mitchell or Inboxsys?

[Florian Vierke via mailop]

I‘ve been working with Anthony a few Years back at Teradata/eCircle. He joined 
Adobe and later Inboxsys. I can confirm, that he‘s 10y+ in the industry and has 
been to M3aawg, csa summit, was speaker at emailing 2020 
(https://youtu.be/Snue0SHOG3g) and so on. So yes, he does have some contacts ;)

We’re still running our Youtube channel deliverability.tv together, as much as 
time allows. :)

Regarding inboxsys - it‘s a rebranding of ‚mailmike‘ and exists for a few Years 
now as well. Mailmike was developed by Sebastiaan de Vos, formerly managing 
Deliverability at Emarsys.

Deliverability is a small, but nice family ;)



[signature_1395543467]
Florian Vierke | Sr. Manager, Deliverability Services

t: +49 89 12009713
e: florian.vie...@mapp.com


From: mailop  on behalf of Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. 
via mailop 
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 18:05
To: MailOp 
Subject: [mailop] Anybody know Anthony Mitchell or Inboxsys?

This email has reached Mapp via an external source


All,

We've been contacted by Anthony Mitchell, representing Inboxsys.com - they are 
brand new in the deliverability space, and yet they claim to have relationships 
with all of the ISPs and ESPs; however I can find *nothing* about them, 
anywhere, other than on archive.org, which shows that they only spun up the 
service within the past 6 months.

Does anybody have any insight into Mr. Mitchell (obviously no relation) and/or 
his inboxsys.com?

Anne

--
Anne P. Mitchell,  Esq.
CEO ISIPP SuretyMail
Dean of Cyberlaw and Cyber Security, Lincoln Law School
Author: Section 6 of the Federal Email Marketing Law (CAN-SPAM)
Author: The Email Deliverability Handbook
Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange
Chair Emeritus, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop
Former Counsel: MAPS Anti-Spam Blacklist
Location: Boulder, Colorado



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Re: [mailop] Registration page

[Florian Vierke via mailop]

Thanks, will try!

[signature_1395543467]<http://www.mapp.com/>
Florian Vierke | Senior Manager, Deliverability Services
t: +49 89 12009765
e: florian.vie...@mapp.com<mailto:florian.vie...@mapp.com>

Von: Guillaume Tournat 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 17. September 2020 11:57
An: Florian Vierke ; Mailop Mailinglist 
(mailop@mailop.org) 
Betreff: Re: [mailop] Registration page

This email has reached Mapp via an external source


Hi

The mail headers indicate two ways:

List-Subscribe: 
<https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop><https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop>,

 
<mailto:mailop-requ...@mailop.org?subject=subscribe><mailto:mailop-requ...@mailop.org?subject=subscribe>





If web page is not responding (which is the case for me), you can deal with 
email to mail robot.




Le 17/09/2020 à 11:40, Florian Vierke via mailop a écrit :
Hi all,

Does anybody know where I can find a working subscription page for this list? 
I'd like to invite someone and the page I have bookmarked doesn't work.

Thanks,

[signature_1395543467]<http://www.mapp.com/>
Florian Vierke | Senior Manager, Deliverability Services
t: +49 89 12009765
e: florian.vie...@mapp.com<mailto:florian.vie...@mapp.com>

Mapp Digital Germany GmbH with registered offices at Dachauer, Str. 63, 80335 
München.
Registered with the District Court München HRB 226181
Managing Directors: Frasier, Christopher & Warren, Steve
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contain information that is confidential or proprietary.
If you are not the intended recipient, do not read, copy or distribute the 
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Please consider the environment before printing. Thank you.



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[mailop] Registration page

[Florian Vierke via mailop]

Hi all,

Does anybody know where I can find a working subscription page for this list? 
I'd like to invite someone and the page I have bookmarked doesn't work.

Thanks,

[signature_1395543467]
Florian Vierke | Senior Manager, Deliverability Services
t: +49 89 12009765
e: florian.vie...@mapp.com

Mapp Digital Germany GmbH with registered offices at Dachauer, Str. 63, 80335 
M?nchen.
Registered with the District Court M?nchen HRB 226181
Managing Directors: Frasier, Christopher & Warren, Steve
This e-mail is from Mapp Digital and its international legal entities and may 
contain information that is confidential or proprietary.
If you are not the intended recipient, do not read, copy or distribute the 
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Re: [mailop] Deutsche Telekom rejects connections because of missing "provider identification"

[Florian Vierke via mailop]

PS: I have to correct myself – T-Online is not (yet?) participating in the CSA, 
but the remaining information is still true 

The list of participants can be checked here: 
https://certified-senders.org/participants/

Sorry for the confusion.

[signature_1395543467]<http://www.mapp.com/>
Florian Vierke | Senior Manager, Deliverability Services
t: +49 89 12009765
e: florian.vie...@mapp.com<mailto:florian.vie...@mapp.com>

Von: mailop  Im Auftrag von Florian Vierke via mailop
Gesendet: Freitag, 28. August 2020 09:29
An: Mailop Mailinglist (mailop@mailop.org) 
Betreff: Re: [mailop] Deutsche Telekom rejects connections because of missing 
"provider identification"

This email has reached Mapp via an external source

Hi everybody,

the requirement for having an imprint in advertising mails is not limited to 
T-Online. It’s a legal requirement and also criteria for the Certified Senders 
Alliance (CSA) which is at least relevant in Germany. For those not having 
heard of it – it’s a whitelisting project originally from Germany, but going 
more and more international. In Germany pretty much every ISP and ESP are 
participating and therefore sticking to the rules.

The rules 
(https://certified-senders.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/CSA_Admission_Criteria.pdf)
 explicitly require imprints and (you know Germans  also define how exactly 
this have to look like):

[cid:image003.png@01D67D20.AAF9EE60]

CSA is actively checking if participants follow the rules, otherwise senders 
get excluded from the Whitelist.

And to close the circle – T-Online is members of the CSA as well, so they don’t 
necessarily have to check everything themselves – they can also rely on the CSA 
whitelist.

Cheers,


[signature_1395543467]<http://www.mapp.com/>
Florian Vierke | Senior Manager, Deliverability Services
t: +49 89 12009765
e: florian.vie...@mapp.com<mailto:florian.vie...@mapp.com>

Von: mailop mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org>> Im 
Auftrag von Hans-Martin Mosner via mailop
Gesendet: Freitag, 28. August 2020 08:51
An: mailop@mailop.org<mailto:mailop@mailop.org>
Betreff: Re: [mailop] Deutsche Telekom rejects connections because of missing 
"provider identification"

This email has reached Mapp via an external source

Am 26.08.20 um 19:36 schrieb flo via mailop:

Hi there



Have any of you had any bad experiences with Deutsche Telekom lately?

They put one of my servers on their blacklist after an IP change with

the reason that I have to provide an imprint on that machine.

Have I missed something? Is this how it is done now?

Without wanting to defend DT and the details of their policy, I do see 
understandable reasons for this policy, and I'm applying a somewhat similar 
strategy with pretty good success. Note that the presumed goal is to defend 
against spam, not to bother innocent senders, but in border cases that still 
happens (just as it happens with other mechanisms such as SPF etc.)

A significant percentage of spam that still gets through after blocking dynamic 
IP addresses and known spam sending networks comes from

  *   anonymous domains
  *   hacked mail accounts or servers
  *   misconfigured servers (web sites sending replies to mail-addresses 
entered via web forms)

The second and third variant can only be handled on a case-by-case basis, I 
typically inform the admins through spamcop (of course that only works if they 
have a working abuse contact) and block the source because the sad experience 
is that admins of an already badly managed service likely don't react to abuse 
reports either.

The first variant is more or less what you have. With the (IMHO stupid) 
decision to handle whois data as GDPR protected spammers have pumped up the 
volume of spam sent through domains whose registries hide whois data because 
that allows them to register their domains with fake information (the 
registries and registrars don't check, they happily take the fees and don't 
care otherwise). The net effect is that anonymous domain registration together 
with hosting with a "we don't care" hoster is a pretty good predictor for 
spamminess.

Checking for an imprint is a strategy that works in Germany for many cases due 
to the legal requirement to have an imprint on web sites intended for the 
general public. I don't know how DT checks that, they probably use automated 
tools plus some human augmentation. In any case, this would enable them to 
whitelist a good percentage of domains that would otherwise be considered 
anonymous.

I have to deal with much lower volumes of mail, so I have decided to 
"permanently greylist" domains of this kind and to add exemptions after a short 
manual check whether the domain can be assumed to be legit. In addition, all of 
our rejection messages contain a link to a web page where we can be contacted 
in case of an erroneous block (false positives happen with every spam blocking 
policy). I do not put any demands 

Re: [mailop] Deutsche Telekom rejects connections because of missing "provider identification"

[Florian Vierke via mailop]

Hi everybody,

the requirement for having an imprint in advertising mails is not limited to 
T-Online. It’s a legal requirement and also criteria for the Certified Senders 
Alliance (CSA) which is at least relevant in Germany. For those not having 
heard of it – it’s a whitelisting project originally from Germany, but going 
more and more international. In Germany pretty much every ISP and ESP are 
participating and therefore sticking to the rules.

The rules 
(https://certified-senders.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/CSA_Admission_Criteria.pdf)
 explicitly require imprints and (you know Germans  also define how exactly 
this have to look like):

[cid:image003.png@01D67D1D.B5F6C3E0]

CSA is actively checking if participants follow the rules, otherwise senders 
get excluded from the Whitelist.

And to close the circle – T-Online is members of the CSA as well, so they don’t 
necessarily have to check everything themselves – they can also rely on the CSA 
whitelist.

Cheers,


[signature_1395543467]
Florian Vierke | Senior Manager, Deliverability Services
t: +49 89 12009765
e: florian.vie...@mapp.com

Von: mailop  Im Auftrag von Hans-Martin Mosner via 
mailop
Gesendet: Freitag, 28. August 2020 08:51
An: mailop@mailop.org
Betreff: Re: [mailop] Deutsche Telekom rejects connections because of missing 
"provider identification"

This email has reached Mapp via an external source

Am 26.08.20 um 19:36 schrieb flo via mailop:

Hi there



Have any of you had any bad experiences with Deutsche Telekom lately?

They put one of my servers on their blacklist after an IP change with

the reason that I have to provide an imprint on that machine.

Have I missed something? Is this how it is done now?

Without wanting to defend DT and the details of their policy, I do see 
understandable reasons for this policy, and I'm applying a somewhat similar 
strategy with pretty good success. Note that the presumed goal is to defend 
against spam, not to bother innocent senders, but in border cases that still 
happens (just as it happens with other mechanisms such as SPF etc.)

A significant percentage of spam that still gets through after blocking dynamic 
IP addresses and known spam sending networks comes from

  *   anonymous domains
  *   hacked mail accounts or servers
  *   misconfigured servers (web sites sending replies to mail-addresses 
entered via web forms)

The second and third variant can only be handled on a case-by-case basis, I 
typically inform the admins through spamcop (of course that only works if they 
have a working abuse contact) and block the source because the sad experience 
is that admins of an already badly managed service likely don't react to abuse 
reports either.

The first variant is more or less what you have. With the (IMHO stupid) 
decision to handle whois data as GDPR protected spammers have pumped up the 
volume of spam sent through domains whose registries hide whois data because 
that allows them to register their domains with fake information (the 
registries and registrars don't check, they happily take the fees and don't 
care otherwise). The net effect is that anonymous domain registration together 
with hosting with a "we don't care" hoster is a pretty good predictor for 
spamminess.

Checking for an imprint is a strategy that works in Germany for many cases due 
to the legal requirement to have an imprint on web sites intended for the 
general public. I don't know how DT checks that, they probably use automated 
tools plus some human augmentation. In any case, this would enable them to 
whitelist a good percentage of domains that would otherwise be considered 
anonymous.

I have to deal with much lower volumes of mail, so I have decided to 
"permanently greylist" domains of this kind and to add exemptions after a short 
manual check whether the domain can be assumed to be legit. In addition, all of 
our rejection messages contain a link to a web page where we can be contacted 
in case of an erroneous block (false positives happen with every spam blocking 
policy). I do not put any demands on blocked senders except to contact us, so 
the simple act of using the web form is enough to be unblocked. Of course, a 
sufficiently motivated spammer might try that as well, might get a free pass 
for a day, and be added to the "never unblock these crooks" list quickly.
Cheers,
Hans-Martin
Mapp Digital Germany GmbH with registered offices at Dachauer, Str. 63, 80335 
München.
Registered with the District Court München HRB 226181
Managing Directors: Frasier, Christopher & Warren, Steve
This e-mail is from Mapp Digital and its international legal entities and may 
contain information that is confidential or proprietary.
If you are not the intended recipient, do not read, copy or distribute the 
e-mail or any attachments. Instead, please notify the sender and delete the 
e-mail and any attachments.
Please consider the environment before printing. 

Re: [mailop] t-online.de outage?

[Florian Vierke via mailop]

Hi folks,

Probably this was already mentioned, but T-Online is a traditional German ISP - 
in the past the did only offer Email accounts along with a phone contract, but 
nowadays it's open to everybody. Generally I'd say the average user is German 
and older than 30y.

Contacting them on the mentioned addresses usually provides quick and helpful 
feedback in my experience. If you write in German it might be a plus 

Cheers,


Florian Vierke | Senior Manager, Deliverability Services
m: +49 89 12009765
e: florian.vie...@mapp.com
Follow us:

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: mailop  Im Auftrag von Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. Juni 2020 11:45
An: Bill Cole via mailop 
Betreff: Re: [mailop] t-online.de outage?

This email has reached Mapp via an external source


Dnia  9.06.2020 o godz. 19:32:27 Bill Cole via mailop pisze:
>
> $ telnet mx01.t-online.de 25
> Trying 194.25.134.72...
> Connected to mx01.t-online.de.
> Escape character is '^]'.
> 554 IP=67.149.19.3 - A problem occurred. (Ask your postmaster for help
> or to contact t...@rx.t-online.de to clarify.) (BL) Connection closed
> by foreign host.

Same for me:

raj@rafa:~$ telnet mx01.t-online.de 25
Trying 194.25.134.72...
Connected to mx01.t-online.de.
Escape character is '^]'.
554 IP=217.182.79.147 - A problem occurred. (Ask your postmaster for help or to 
contact t...@rx.t-online.de to clarify.) (BL) Connection closed by foreign host.
raj@rafa:~$
--
Regards,
   Jaroslaw Rafa
   r...@rafa.eu.org
--
"In a million years, when kids go to school, they're gonna know: once there was 
a Hushpuppy, and she lived with her daddy in the Bathtub."

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Re: [mailop] SendGrid Abuse unresponsive

[Florian Vierke via mailop]

Hi guys,

My colleague Daniel has published a blog post with great info to exactly that 
topic this week.. whoever is interested, please have a look: 
https://inboxplacement.com/2020/05/machine-clicks-in-email/

It’s not only tools following links, it’s mainly some well-known isps ;)

Cheers,



[signature_1395543467]
Florian Vierke | Sr. Manager, Deliverability Services

m: +49 1590 4236431
e: florian.vie...@mapp.com

Follow us:  [cid:image006.png@01D4B7E6.669D8F70] 

[cid:image007.png@01D4B7E6.669D8F70]    
[cid:image008.png@01D4B7E6.669D8F70] 



From: mailop  on behalf of Alexander Zeh via mailop 

Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 17:54
To: mailop@mailop.org 
Subject: Re: [mailop] SendGrid Abuse unresponsive


This email has reached Mapp via an external source



Hi Andy,

well.. there is software out there that does exactly that. Follow every single 
link. Sometimes multiple times even with a delay of hours. At least that’s what 
I am seeing. That stuff is pretty annoying. But you’re right, for abuse reports 
there should be a webform and some kind of captcha. I don’t agree with the 
unsubscribe mechanism though. As list-unsubscribe is supposed to be done by the 
mail client in the background without showing the result to the user, a captcha 
or something like that would defeat the purpose. But that’s already kind of 
solved with https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8058.

Cheers,
Alex

Am 05.05.2020 um 17:42 schrieb Andy Smith via mailop 
mailto:mailop@mailop.org>>:

Hi Alexander,

On Tue, May 05, 2020 at 05:25:38PM +0200, Alexander Zeh via mailop wrote:
It would also be great if SendGrid would include an abuse reporting
URL in the headers of each message, specific to that message, i.e.
that passes along all info that SendGrid would need to identify that
campaign/client.

I’m not so sure about that, having in mind that the list-unsubscribe header 
already causes some headache on my end as some filters are checking and 
therefore „clicking“ all the URLs they find in body and header.

At a minimum wouldn't such software already follow all links and
confirm deliverability on behalf of the recipient every time they
got marketing email? That seems like a bad idea to begin with, and
also a bad idea from the web server side.

All web contact forms already need some sort of "I am not a bot"
detection because of software like that; you couldn't have some sort
of "this is spam" web service that took a report solely based on a
GET request, and sensible unsubscribe mechanisms don't work that way
either.

Cheers,
Andy

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