Re: [mailop] Hotmail and block on OVH: possible solutions alternatives?
On 2021-02-25 at 20:10 +0100, Jaroslaw Rafa wrote: > I'm not a lawyer, and of course law may differ in different countries, but I > guess that at least in my country it can have something to do whether you are > selling something that can be classified as "consumer goods" or not. > Selling groceries is definitely consumer oriented ;) while eg. selling > aircrafts is definitely not. While selling consumer goods to anonymous > customers is normal, I guess that if you sell an aircraft to an anonymous > customer the authorities might have a lot of doubts about it. For selling an > aircraft probably a contract clearly signed by both parties is required. I suspect that may have more to do with the amount of money. If the credit card charge was reversed and the customer got away with a bag full of groceries, that may be acceptable, in exchange for the convenience for all other customers, that you aren't interrogating for hours before deciding if it's safe to sell them groceries or not. On the other hand, if the customer disappeared with an aircraft without even paying for it... > I guess the same applies to such things as servers. > Taking a common sense approach, (...) Perhaps, although since there are so many inconsistent laws... :-/ > the ISP that provides your home Internet > connection usually won't provide any service without having signed a contract > where you clearly state who you are (the same applies for things like > electricity, water etc.). I wouldn't be so sure. Around here, I don't think it's needed. Not in the sense you mean at least. Technically, they know who you are (you tell them), and there *is* a contract (nowadays generally published on their web page, or you may be sent a copy). Whether the data provided to them is accurate or not is another issue (surely it is, our contract says it must be!), I suspect you could easily sign up under a pen name without them noticing, as long as the payment succeeds.¹ Albeit I admit that may be low in their priority list, since if they have any issue, they should have relatively few problems for locating their users. ¹ And, crazy enough, you can sign up to pay the bills of someone else! Cheers ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Hotmail and block on OVH: possible solutions alternatives?
On 2021-02-25 16:41:36 (+0800), Ignacio García via mailop wrote: I know OVH's not a favorite among pros, but for me, their dedicated servers work well and aren't very expensive. Can anybody recommend a somewhat similar solution with a better IP segments reputation? I run my outbound mail server on a VPS from Mythic Beasts in the UK. I've not had any problems with them. I hear good things about Vultr from friends with similar setups. Philip -- Philip Paeps Senior Reality Engineer Alternative Enterprises ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Hotmail and block on OVH: possible solutions alternatives?
On Thu, 25 Feb 2021, Michael Peddemors wrote: Also, speaking of whois, pet peeve that some of the whois databases never seem to be updated/cleaned up. And some of the biggest don't publish anything. whois 51.79.55.200 Still thinks RIPE is responsible.. Your whois program thinks that -- not entirely wrongly, the /8 once was entirely managed by RIPE NCC but islands have been carved out for other regions -- time to update its configuration or replace it ... $ jwhois 51.79.55.200 [Querying whois.arin.net] [...] OVH Hosting, Inc. HO-2 (NET-51-79-0-0-1) 51.79.0.0 - 51.79.255.255 OVH Hosting, Inc. VPS-BHS6 (NET-51-79-48-0-1) 51.79.48.0 - 51.79.55.255 Granted OVH didn't document (via SWIP/rwhois/RDAP) that 55.200 was reassigned to a customer. Do they even have a way for a customer receiving to request pubication -- I do not know, but it isn't surprising that they don't absent their customer requesting they do so. /mark ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Hotmail and block on OVH: possible solutions alternatives?
Dnia 25.02.2021 o godz. 19:44:40 Christof Meerwald via mailop pisze: > On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 07:16:17PM +0100, Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop wrote: > > Dnia 25.02.2021 o godz. 08:48:01 John Capo via mailop pisze: > > > Vultr.com blocks port 25 until you prove who you are and provide a credit > > > card. A good policy IMHO. > > How can you buy a VPS at all without proving who you are? It's a legal > > contract - each party of this contract must know the other, so the company > > you are buying the VPS from must know who you are. > > I don't think you are required to check who your customer is - as long > as you get the money on time (and the sender of any payments matches > the data provided), you might not care too much. I'm not a lawyer, and of course law may differ in different countries, but I guess that at least in my country it can have something to do whether you are selling something that can be classified as "consumer goods" or not. Selling groceries is definitely consumer oriented ;) while eg. selling aircrafts is definitely not. While selling consumer goods to anonymous customers is normal, I guess that if you sell an aircraft to an anonymous customer the authorities might have a lot of doubts about it. For selling an aircraft probably a contract clearly signed by both parties is required. That may also have something to do with telecommunications law. If you are required by law (at least in my country) to register your personal data for every single SIM card you buy (the government says that the purpose of this regulation is to combat terrorism, but everyone laughs at that), I guess the same applies to such things as servers. Taking a common sense approach, the ISP that provides your home Internet connection usually won't provide any service without having signed a contract where you clearly state who you are (the same applies for things like electricity, water etc.). Why a hosting provider that sells you a VPS should do differently? A server is basically a "house" in the Net. Usually houses aren't sold or rented to anonymous people... -- Regards, Jaroslaw Rafa r...@rafa.eu.org -- "In a million years, when kids go to school, they're gonna know: once there was a Hushpuppy, and she lived with her daddy in the Bathtub." ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Hotmail and block on OVH: possible solutions alternatives?
Am 25.02.21 um 18:53 schrieb Scott Mutter via mailop: > > In hosting, datacenter renting, situations where we're discussing OVH and > Vultr and other providers, the OWNER of the > IP address doesn't necessarily have the same interest as the USER of the IP > address in terms of mail deliverability. > Now, it's certainly true that if a spammer is the "USER" of the IP address, > then they are less likely to worry about > the IP reputation damage they cause and will just move on to another server > or IP address. But there are legitimate > "USERS" that really want to keep the IP address they are USING clean and in a > solid reputation. I don't think > Microsoft and these other large ESPs really understand that. As an abuse reporter, I often have no way of knowing who the user of an IP address is. I can often at least make an educated guess about whether the user's machine is likely compromised or whether it is deliberately used to spam. If it's a spammer, *I don't want to talk to them*. It's as futile as asking a mosquito to please go away. Spamming is their business, they won't just switch to painting walls if I kindly request that they stop spamming. So even if there was a way of contacting the user (most often they go out of their way to avoid being identified) I would not want to do it. I want to talk to the OWNER of the IP space and possibly server hardware and suggest that they stop doing business with spamming USERs. It should be in the OWNER's interest to remove spammers from their network, because if they don't their network might be labeled as spammer-friendly, attracting more spammers. This is what apparently happens with OVH and other spammer-tolerating providers. They not only don't kick their spamming customers, they provide them with new IPs if they ask for it. Consequently, blocking the whole IP space is the only reliable way to preemptively stop spam from there. If the USER of a spamming IP address is a victim himself, I might be willing to contact them, if there weren't some hurdles which make it a very inefficient use of my time: * It's often hard to find comain contact information: o Reverse DNS often does not identify a usable domain name, only some numeric host id with the domain name of the hosting company, or an anonymously registered domain. o If there is a valid-looking domain name, its whois information is more often than not "privacy protected" which means I don't really know whether I'm talking to a real person. * If there is a web site to the domain name, it may show some sales and info contact addresses (if they don't only provide you with a sales inquiry form). Finding these addresses takes time, filling out the forms even more so, and in many cases I'm pretty sure the recipients won't understand what I'm talking about when I notify them of some apparently compromised resource. The OWNER who is renting out IP space should have proper technical contact information, so they could contact the right person at their customer and forward them the information I gave them. They might also run a competent abuse desk where multiple reports about a compromised customer can be detected and bundled, so the customer can focus on fixing the issue instead of answering dozens of complaints. Last but not least, the OWNER is the one being paid by the USER for the services, I'm not, so it's not unfair to expect them to put some work in fixing such problems. Wishful thinking, I know, I'm dreaming of a perfect world. Even so, as a small mailserver operator I may create whitelist entries for clean USERs in a dirty neighborhood. It may require them to go through some effort (for example, filling out /my/ simple 3-field form) but that's really not a lot, and it's 100% effective, unlike my futile attempts to bring spam incidents to hoster's attention. Cheers, Hans-Martin ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Hotmail and block on OVH: possible solutions alternatives?
> Aren't things like FBLs, or Google's Postmaster Tools, exactly the thing > that COULD (and IMHO should) be used for this? Ideally, yea, they probably could be. But are Feedback Loops still in use? I've never gotten a single iota from Google's Feedback Loop or Postmaster tools. Maybe there's a certain threshold volume you have to hit before it starts registering and we never reach that. I'm also not getting anything from Microsoft's JMRP - and again, maybe that's a threshold thing. But I have had IPs blocked by Microsoft before. Was it explicitly the IP address I am USING? Or was it a neighbor IP that caused the block? Nobody knows, so we all just kind of shrug our shoulders, request delisting, and (eventually... maybe) get delisted and move on, never solving the "spam" issue. Back in the day, the AOL feedback loop worked and was IMMENSELY helpful. This was probably back before a lot of outgoing mail monitoring and filtering was in place on our systems. But it was definitely helpful when we would get a sudden barrage of AOL FBL messages from a certain IP address, and we knew then to stop everything and really investigate the activity happening on that server. This was back when AOL was probably a more major player in the Email Service Provider realm, it's less so now, there's just less aol.com email addresses in use these days. And I'm not even sure if the AOL FBL is still there. On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 12:23 PM Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop wrote: > Dnia 25.02.2021 o godz. 11:53:44 Scott Mutter via mailop pisze: > > I'll end this little soapbox rant acknowledging that I don't really have > a > > solution to this. How is Microsoft supposed to know that a USER of an IP > > address is a well-respected and legitimate individual or company and not > a > > spammer? That's certainly a valid question, but just because a question > > doesn't have an immediate answer doesn't mean it's not a relevant > > question. Would time be better spent trying to solve this hurdle? If > > real, legitimate IP address USERS could be identified then they can > address > > more problematic spam incidents with more details. > > Aren't things like FBLs, or Google's Postmaster Tools, exactly the thing > that COULD (and IMHO should) be used for this? Can these help to identify > the user of the IP space and provide a point of contact (hopefully not only > for automated messages) if there's something wrong with that IP space? > -- > Regards, >Jaroslaw Rafa >r...@rafa.eu.org > -- > "In a million years, when kids go to school, they're gonna know: once there > was a Hushpuppy, and she lived with her daddy in the Bathtub." > ___ > mailop mailing list > mailop@mailop.org > https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop > ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Hotmail and block on OVH: possible solutions alternatives?
On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 07:16:17PM +0100, Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop wrote: > Dnia 25.02.2021 o godz. 08:48:01 John Capo via mailop pisze: > > Vultr.com blocks port 25 until you prove who you are and provide a credit > > card. A good policy IMHO. > How can you buy a VPS at all without proving who you are? It's a legal > contract - each party of this contract must know the other, so the company > you are buying the VPS from must know who you are. I don't think you are required to check who your customer is - as long as you get the money on time (and the sender of any payments matches the data provided), you might not care too much. I believe the one thing where you have to do some basic checks (at least in the EU) is when it comes to VAT - so you charge the correct amount of VAT based on the customer's location (but even there I think it's sufficient that the location information from the IP address matches the data provided by the customer). > When I was buying my VPS at OVH, they required me to present a scan of my ID. I guess there are costs involved for the provider as well - at least to get the data protection policies properly in place to be able to handle such sensitive data as ID scans with the potential of heavy fines if there is a data breach. And some customers might not be comfortable handing over an ID scan for such basic services as providing a VPS - and go to the competition instead. Christof -- http://cmeerw.org sip:cmeerw at cmeerw.org mailto:cmeerw at cmeerw.org xmpp:cmeerw at cmeerw.org ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Hotmail and block on OVH: possible solutions alternatives?
Hi, I did have an issue sending mail to Microsoft from an IP address in an apparently dodgy neighbourhood. After explaining the issue to Microsoft's support I was asked to provide an invoice showing that I have bought the IP address. I did send them the invoice for my virtual server showing the IP address, which was accepted, and got the IP address unblocked. Christof On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 11:53:44AM -0600, Scott Mutter via mailop wrote: > I've tried to convey before, but never got a lot of traction. > > There's a huge disconnect with Microsoft (Yahoo, Gmail, whoever else you > want to clump in here) between an OWNER of an IP address and a USER of an > IP address. > > Sure, the issues with OVH and their IP addressing space certainly has > merit. But forget about labeling this as an OVH problem for the moment. > Consider just any datacenter or hosting provider, they might own the IP > addresses sending mail, but they're not actually the ones USING the IP > addresses. True, it's their customers and you can make the argument that > the buck has to stop some where. But what I'm saying is that Microsoft > (and I'm really not meaning to single out Microsoft here, it's just the one > being mentioned in this topic) refuses (or is less inclined) to deal with > the USER of an IP address and instead only deals with the OWNER of the IP > address. > > In hosting, datacenter renting, situations where we're discussing OVH and > Vultr and other providers, the OWNER of the IP address doesn't necessarily > have the same interest as the USER of the IP address in terms of mail > deliverability. Now, it's certainly true that if a spammer is the "USER" > of the IP address, then they are less likely to worry about the IP > reputation damage they cause and will just move on to another server or IP > address. But there are legitimate "USERS" that really want to keep the IP > address they are USING clean and in a solid reputation. I don't think > Microsoft and these other large ESPs really understand that. > > I'll end this little soapbox rant acknowledging that I don't really have a > solution to this. How is Microsoft supposed to know that a USER of an IP > address is a well-respected and legitimate individual or company and not a > spammer? That's certainly a valid question, but just because a question > doesn't have an immediate answer doesn't mean it's not a relevant > question. Would time be better spent trying to solve this hurdle? If > real, legitimate IP address USERS could be identified then they can address > more problematic spam incidents with more details. Otherwise, you get > stuck in the rut of "someone, some where, some time, from some of the IPs > that look like yours sent a spam message, so we're just going to block > everybody now" and there's no hope for ever getting the real culprit caught. -- http://cmeerw.org sip:cmeerw at cmeerw.org mailto:cmeerw at cmeerw.org xmpp:cmeerw at cmeerw.org ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Hotmail and block on OVH: possible solutions alternatives?
Dnia 25.02.2021 o godz. 08:48:01 John Capo via mailop pisze: > > Vultr.com blocks port 25 until you prove who you are and provide a credit > card. A good policy IMHO. How can you buy a VPS at all without proving who you are? It's a legal contract - each party of this contract must know the other, so the company you are buying the VPS from must know who you are. When I was buying my VPS at OVH, they required me to present a scan of my ID. -- Regards, Jaroslaw Rafa r...@rafa.eu.org -- "In a million years, when kids go to school, they're gonna know: once there was a Hushpuppy, and she lived with her daddy in the Bathtub." ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Hotmail and block on OVH: possible solutions alternatives?
Dnia 25.02.2021 o godz. 11:53:44 Scott Mutter via mailop pisze: > I'll end this little soapbox rant acknowledging that I don't really have a > solution to this. How is Microsoft supposed to know that a USER of an IP > address is a well-respected and legitimate individual or company and not a > spammer? That's certainly a valid question, but just because a question > doesn't have an immediate answer doesn't mean it's not a relevant > question. Would time be better spent trying to solve this hurdle? If > real, legitimate IP address USERS could be identified then they can address > more problematic spam incidents with more details. Aren't things like FBLs, or Google's Postmaster Tools, exactly the thing that COULD (and IMHO should) be used for this? Can these help to identify the user of the IP space and provide a point of contact (hopefully not only for automated messages) if there's something wrong with that IP space? -- Regards, Jaroslaw Rafa r...@rafa.eu.org -- "In a million years, when kids go to school, they're gonna know: once there was a Hushpuppy, and she lived with her daddy in the Bathtub." ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Hotmail and block on OVH: possible solutions alternatives?
I've tried to convey before, but never got a lot of traction. There's a huge disconnect with Microsoft (Yahoo, Gmail, whoever else you want to clump in here) between an OWNER of an IP address and a USER of an IP address. Sure, the issues with OVH and their IP addressing space certainly has merit. But forget about labeling this as an OVH problem for the moment. Consider just any datacenter or hosting provider, they might own the IP addresses sending mail, but they're not actually the ones USING the IP addresses. True, it's their customers and you can make the argument that the buck has to stop some where. But what I'm saying is that Microsoft (and I'm really not meaning to single out Microsoft here, it's just the one being mentioned in this topic) refuses (or is less inclined) to deal with the USER of an IP address and instead only deals with the OWNER of the IP address. In hosting, datacenter renting, situations where we're discussing OVH and Vultr and other providers, the OWNER of the IP address doesn't necessarily have the same interest as the USER of the IP address in terms of mail deliverability. Now, it's certainly true that if a spammer is the "USER" of the IP address, then they are less likely to worry about the IP reputation damage they cause and will just move on to another server or IP address. But there are legitimate "USERS" that really want to keep the IP address they are USING clean and in a solid reputation. I don't think Microsoft and these other large ESPs really understand that. I'll end this little soapbox rant acknowledging that I don't really have a solution to this. How is Microsoft supposed to know that a USER of an IP address is a well-respected and legitimate individual or company and not a spammer? That's certainly a valid question, but just because a question doesn't have an immediate answer doesn't mean it's not a relevant question. Would time be better spent trying to solve this hurdle? If real, legitimate IP address USERS could be identified then they can address more problematic spam incidents with more details. Otherwise, you get stuck in the rut of "someone, some where, some time, from some of the IPs that look like yours sent a spam message, so we're just going to block everybody now" and there's no hope for ever getting the real culprit caught. On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 10:59 AM Ignacio García via mailop < mailop@mailop.org> wrote: > Hi there and thank you all for your comments. > > > Certainly, you're all right on your opinions about OVH. In fact, we've > been considering moving to a different platform some times but, until > now, we hadn't had real motives to do so. We've had decent support and > never had, in the past, big issues with their service. We'll see now how > we solve this, because... > > > ...the most stupid situation arises here now: as I metioned earlier > today we're having problems delivering to Hotmail. I just realized a > couple of minutes ago this is only happening when using my server > assigned's failover IP. I just switched to the default IP: changed > postfix outbound IP and MX DNS entry for my testing domain (we use SPF, > DKIM and DMARC) and messages get delivered to the Hotmail's INBOX > directly, not going to the SPAM folder! I hadn't that IP added to the > SNDS cause we just use the failover IP. Microsoft likes that IP. Time to > complain to OVH and ask for a different failover IP. > > > Thanks for your recommendation on Vultr. Any others you can also > recommend are also appreciated. > > > And, of course, I want to thank you all again for your help and quick > response > > > Best wishes!!! > > > Ignacio > > > El 25/2/21 a las 16:43, Michael Peddemors via mailop escribió: > > +1, not only are they one of the most reported IP Spaces, but their > > abuse teams are slow to respond, and they don't assist customers with > > reputation problems. AS well, they don't keep up their SWIP/rwhois > > very well. And when a snowshoe spammer lights up, it is usually very > > high volume that they get out. > > > > Just sorry for the legitimate customers using them, as they have a lot > > of bad neighbours. I think this is something that the Canadian CASL > > teams should look at. > > > > Also, speaking of whois, pet peeve that some of the whois databases > > never seem to be updated/cleaned up. > > > > whois 51.79.55.200 > > > > Still thinks RIPE is responsible.. > > > > whois 51.79.55.200 -h whois.arin.net > > > > But it's actually now in ARIN hands.. > > > > On 2021-02-25 12:58 a.m., Rob Kendrick via mailop wrote: > >> On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 09:41:36AM +0100, Ignacio García via mailop > >> wrote: > >>> From your experience, how long may it take to MS to allow > >>> communications from those IPs? Is there anything else we can do to > >>> to help solve this situation? > >> > >> Don't use OVH. They have a terrible reputation and are widely blocked > >> at the AS level. One week last year, 15% of the spam we refused was > >> from OVH. Ban
Re: [mailop] Hotmail and block on OVH: possible solutions alternatives?
On 2021-02-25 8:59 a.m., Ignacio García via mailop wrote: Thanks for your recommendation on Vultr. Any others you can also recommend are also appreciated. Personal recommendation? Always think transparency... If the hosting company won't offer you SWIP or 'rwhois' for your IP(s), you always risk gaining the reputation of your neighbours. It would be one of my 'must haves' when choosing a hosting provider. Since the thread on recommending 'good providers' didn't gain much steam, (doesn't say much for the industry, but of course, people only get loud about the bad, not the good. There are lots of smaller hard working hosting providers, that just dont' get the respect they deserve for keeping a clean network).. Maybe we should post a link of 'recommended questions to ask when choosing a hosting provider'?? FYI, this weeks major spam outbreaks, new IP Activity LayerHost .. (ex Global Frag) Eonix Microsoft Azure Selectel But the spam bot running on compromised IoT routers seems to have stopped again this week.. Moving to AUTH attacks again instead? -- "Catch the Magic of Linux..." Michael Peddemors, President/CEO LinuxMagic Inc. Visit us at http://www.linuxmagic.com @linuxmagic A Wizard IT Company - For More Info http://www.wizard.ca "LinuxMagic" a Registered TradeMark of Wizard Tower TechnoServices Ltd. 604-682-0300 Beautiful British Columbia, Canada This email and any electronic data contained are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and are not intended to represent those of the company. ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Hotmail and block on OVH: possible solutions alternatives?
Hi there and thank you all for your comments. Certainly, you're all right on your opinions about OVH. In fact, we've been considering moving to a different platform some times but, until now, we hadn't had real motives to do so. We've had decent support and never had, in the past, big issues with their service. We'll see now how we solve this, because... ...the most stupid situation arises here now: as I metioned earlier today we're having problems delivering to Hotmail. I just realized a couple of minutes ago this is only happening when using my server assigned's failover IP. I just switched to the default IP: changed postfix outbound IP and MX DNS entry for my testing domain (we use SPF, DKIM and DMARC) and messages get delivered to the Hotmail's INBOX directly, not going to the SPAM folder! I hadn't that IP added to the SNDS cause we just use the failover IP. Microsoft likes that IP. Time to complain to OVH and ask for a different failover IP. Thanks for your recommendation on Vultr. Any others you can also recommend are also appreciated. And, of course, I want to thank you all again for your help and quick response Best wishes!!! Ignacio El 25/2/21 a las 16:43, Michael Peddemors via mailop escribió: +1, not only are they one of the most reported IP Spaces, but their abuse teams are slow to respond, and they don't assist customers with reputation problems. AS well, they don't keep up their SWIP/rwhois very well. And when a snowshoe spammer lights up, it is usually very high volume that they get out. Just sorry for the legitimate customers using them, as they have a lot of bad neighbours. I think this is something that the Canadian CASL teams should look at. Also, speaking of whois, pet peeve that some of the whois databases never seem to be updated/cleaned up. whois 51.79.55.200 Still thinks RIPE is responsible.. whois 51.79.55.200 -h whois.arin.net But it's actually now in ARIN hands.. On 2021-02-25 12:58 a.m., Rob Kendrick via mailop wrote: On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 09:41:36AM +0100, Ignacio García via mailop wrote: From your experience, how long may it take to MS to allow communications from those IPs? Is there anything else we can do to to help solve this situation? Don't use OVH. They have a terrible reputation and are widely blocked at the AS level. One week last year, 15% of the spam we refused was from OVH. Banning them wholesale is an easy decision for many administrators. It will take OVH years to fix this reputation problem, and while they do, you will have deliverability problems. I know OVH's not a favorite among pros, but for me, their dedicated servers work well and aren't very expensive. Can anybody recommend a somewhat similar solution with a better IP segments reputation? Their cheapness is partially the problem. Laxness is another part. Perhaps you could have a machine or three at a respectable provider and push all your outgoing mail through them, keeping the bulk at OVH? B. ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Hotmail and block on OVH: possible solutions alternatives?
+1, not only are they one of the most reported IP Spaces, but their abuse teams are slow to respond, and they don't assist customers with reputation problems. AS well, they don't keep up their SWIP/rwhois very well. And when a snowshoe spammer lights up, it is usually very high volume that they get out. Just sorry for the legitimate customers using them, as they have a lot of bad neighbours. I think this is something that the Canadian CASL teams should look at. Also, speaking of whois, pet peeve that some of the whois databases never seem to be updated/cleaned up. whois 51.79.55.200 Still thinks RIPE is responsible.. whois 51.79.55.200 -h whois.arin.net But it's actually now in ARIN hands.. On 2021-02-25 12:58 a.m., Rob Kendrick via mailop wrote: On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 09:41:36AM +0100, Ignacio García via mailop wrote: From your experience, how long may it take to MS to allow communications from those IPs? Is there anything else we can do to to help solve this situation? Don't use OVH. They have a terrible reputation and are widely blocked at the AS level. One week last year, 15% of the spam we refused was from OVH. Banning them wholesale is an easy decision for many administrators. It will take OVH years to fix this reputation problem, and while they do, you will have deliverability problems. I know OVH's not a favorite among pros, but for me, their dedicated servers work well and aren't very expensive. Can anybody recommend a somewhat similar solution with a better IP segments reputation? Their cheapness is partially the problem. Laxness is another part. Perhaps you could have a machine or three at a respectable provider and push all your outgoing mail through them, keeping the bulk at OVH? B. ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop -- "Catch the Magic of Linux..." Michael Peddemors, President/CEO LinuxMagic Inc. Visit us at http://www.linuxmagic.com @linuxmagic A Wizard IT Company - For More Info http://www.wizard.ca "LinuxMagic" a Registered TradeMark of Wizard Tower TechnoServices Ltd. 604-682-0300 Beautiful British Columbia, Canada This email and any electronic data contained are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and are not intended to represent those of the company. ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Hotmail and block on OVH: possible solutions alternatives?
Renaud Allard via mailop writes: > On 2/25/21 2:48 PM, John Capo via mailop wrote: >> On Thu, February 25, 2021 03:41, Ignacio García via mailop wrote: >>> >>> I know OVH's not a favorite among pros, but for me, their dedicated >>> servers work well and aren't very expensive. Can anybody recommend a >>> somewhat similar solution >>> with a better IP segments reputation? >> Vultr.com blocks port 25 until you prove who you are and provide a >> credit card. A good policy IMHO. >> > > Also, it's not automatic, you need to ask for the opening and give a > good reason. Which is an even better policy ;) > And Vultr.com continue to monitor their IP addresses with postmaster ISP tools. Which prevent to have bad neighbors x) Regards, -- Bryan Frimin https://www.frimin.fr br...@frimin.fr ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Hotmail and block on OVH: possible solutions alternatives?
Sam Tuke via mailop writes: > Using the support request page hasn't worked for us for at least 1 year > (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/supportrequestform/8ad563e3-288e-2a61-8122-3ba03d6b8d75). What's, do you mean by "hasn't worked"? Regards, -- Bryan Frimin https://www.frimin.fr br...@frimin.fr ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Hotmail and block on OVH: possible solutions alternatives?
On 2/25/21 2:48 PM, John Capo via mailop wrote: On Thu, February 25, 2021 03:41, Ignacio García via mailop wrote: I know OVH's not a favorite among pros, but for me, their dedicated servers work well and aren't very expensive. Can anybody recommend a somewhat similar solution with a better IP segments reputation? Vultr.com blocks port 25 until you prove who you are and provide a credit card. A good policy IMHO. Also, it's not automatic, you need to ask for the opening and give a good reason. Which is an even better policy ;) smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Hotmail and block on OVH: possible solutions alternatives?
On Thu, February 25, 2021 03:41, Ignacio García via mailop wrote: > > I know OVH's not a favorite among pros, but for me, their dedicated > servers work well and aren't very expensive. Can anybody recommend a > somewhat similar solution > with a better IP segments reputation? Vultr.com blocks port 25 until you prove who you are and provide a credit card. A good policy IMHO. John Capo Tuffmail.com ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Hotmail and block on OVH: possible solutions alternatives?
Using the support request page hasn't worked for us for at least 1 year (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/supportrequestform/8ad563e3-288e-2a61-8122-3ba03d6b8d75). Does it work for anyone else? Sam. On 25 February 2021 10:19:47 CET, Bryan Frimin via mailop wrote: >Hello Ignacio, > >> From your experience, how long may it take to MS to allow >communications >> from those IPs? Is there anything else we can do to to help solve >this >> situation? >You can verify your new IP addresses are not listed in blacklists >(which >can be probable because OVH IP addresses are not known, to be >fair). Ensure you are not in an IP block containing spammers. And at >least you can contact the Hotmail ISP support. > >> I know OVH's not a favorite among pros, but for me, their dedicated >> servers work well and aren't very expensive. Can anybody recommend a > >> somewhat similar solution with a better IP segments reputation? >I use Vultr which has clean IP addresses. > >Regards, > >-- >Bryan Frimin >https://www.frimin.fr >br...@frimin.fr >___ >mailop mailing list >mailop@mailop.org >https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Hotmail and block on OVH: possible solutions alternatives?
Hello Ignacio, > From your experience, how long may it take to MS to allow communications > from those IPs? Is there anything else we can do to to help solve this > situation? You can verify your new IP addresses are not listed in blacklists (which can be probable because OVH IP addresses are not known, to be fair). Ensure you are not in an IP block containing spammers. And at least you can contact the Hotmail ISP support. > I know OVH's not a favorite among pros, but for me, their dedicated > servers work well and aren't very expensive. Can anybody recommend a > somewhat similar solution with a better IP segments reputation? I use Vultr which has clean IP addresses. Regards, -- Bryan Frimin https://www.frimin.fr br...@frimin.fr ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Hotmail and block on OVH: possible solutions alternatives?
On 2/25/21 9:41 AM, Ignacio García via mailop wrote: Hi there We are a small ISP for small and medium companies only. We have several email servers hosted at OVH/SoYouStart. Although some OVH IP segments are not of the likes of Microsoft, some of my servers have been running for so long without any incidents that their IPs have had a normal reputation at Microsoft for years. Now we've set up some more, but even our failover IPs are completely blocked by Hotmail servers. We of course have added those IPs to the SNDS monitoring program, no email has been sent since we rented those servers more than 2 months except for this week, after set up and internal initial beta testing. From your experience, how long may it take to MS to allow communications from those IPs? Is there anything else we can do to to help solve this situation? I know OVH's not a favorite among pros, but for me, their dedicated servers work well and aren't very expensive. Can anybody recommend a somewhat similar solution with a better IP segments reputation? I stopped using OVH years ago because of the bad reputation of their IP ranges. That said, I saw that if you get an IP range outside France, the reputation is better. Now, let's be honest, many cheap providers are on blacklists. The interesting thing I saw is that when you purchase more expensive servers (even at OVH), you often get a better reputation. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Hotmail and block on OVH: possible solutions alternatives?
On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 09:41:36AM +0100, Ignacio García via mailop wrote: > From your experience, how long may it take to MS to allow > communications from those IPs? Is there anything else we can do to > to help solve this situation? Don't use OVH. They have a terrible reputation and are widely blocked at the AS level. One week last year, 15% of the spam we refused was from OVH. Banning them wholesale is an easy decision for many administrators. It will take OVH years to fix this reputation problem, and while they do, you will have deliverability problems. > I know OVH's not a favorite among pros, but for me, their dedicated > servers work well and aren't very expensive. Can anybody recommend > a somewhat similar solution with a better IP segments reputation? Their cheapness is partially the problem. Laxness is another part. Perhaps you could have a machine or three at a respectable provider and push all your outgoing mail through them, keeping the bulk at OVH? B. ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Hotmail and block on OVH: possible solutions alternatives?
> On 25 Feb 2021, at 08:41, Ignacio García via mailop wrote: > > Hi there > > > We are a small ISP for small and medium companies only. We have several email > servers hosted at OVH/SoYouStart. Although some OVH IP segments are not of > the likes of Microsoft, some of my servers have been running for so long > without any incidents that their IPs have had a normal reputation at > Microsoft for years. Now we've set up some more, but even our failover IPs > are completely blocked by Hotmail servers. We of course have added those IPs > to the SNDS monitoring program, no email has been sent since we rented those > servers more than 2 months except for this week, after set up and internal > initial beta testing. > > > From your experience, how long may it take to MS to allow communications from > those IPs? Is there anything else we can do to to help solve this situation? Have you opened a ticket for mitigation for those IPs? laura -- Having an Email Crisis? We can help! 800 823-9674 Laura Atkins Word to the Wise la...@wordtothewise.com (650) 437-0741 Email Delivery Blog: https://wordtothewise.com/blog ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
