Re: VIRGIL: Another Virgilius Maro?
Message forwarded by moderator follows. From: F. Heberlein [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:08:46 +1 Does someone know about a philosopher or grammarian called « Virgilius Maro » who was living in the 7th century? I would like to read something about this author, his life, his works. This is Vergilius Maro Grammaticus, famous for his claim to have attended in his youth a 13 days dispute on the correct vocative of ego (now and then i ask our undergrads the 'correct' solution, and more than often i get replies like o ege ...). Under what circumstances would one use a vocative form of the 1st-person singular pronoun? And please don't keep us in suspense: which form did VMG regard as correct, and which were the competing forms? A recent treatment is: Law, Vivien Wisdom, authority and grammar in the seventh century decoding Virgilius Maro Grammaticus Cambridge Univ. Press ISBN : 0-521-47113-3 1995 Fritz Heberlein Dr. Friedrich Heberlein, Akad. Direktor Seminar für Klassische Philologie KU Eichstaett Ostenstr. 26-28 D-85071 Eichstaett / Bayern email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel.: +49 8421 93 1544 / 93 2544 --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub James Lawrence Peter Butrica Department of Classics Memorial University St. John's, Newfoundland A1C 5S7 (709) 737-7914 --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: Another Virgilius Maro?
Message forwarded by moderator follows. From: F. Heberlein [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:08:46 +1 Does someone know about a philosopher or grammarian called « Virgilius Maro » who was living in the 7th century? I would like to read something about this author, his life, his works. This is Vergilius Maro Grammaticus, famous for his claim to have attended in his youth a 13 days dispute on the correct vocative of ego (now and then i ask our undergrads the 'correct' solution, and more than often i get replies like o ege ...). A recent treatment is: Law, Vivien Wisdom, authority and grammar in the seventh century decoding Virgilius Maro Grammaticus Cambridge Univ. Press ISBN : 0-521-47113-3 1995 Fritz Heberlein Dr. Friedrich Heberlein, Akad. Direktor Seminar für Klassische Philologie KU Eichstaett Ostenstr. 26-28 D-85071 Eichstaett / Bayern email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel.: +49 8421 93 1544 / 93 2544 --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: Another Virgilius Maro?
The collection of quotations regarding P. Virgilius Maro was very entertaining. I recall reading a review of a book on PVM and wondering whether this was an April Fool's edition of the journal it was in! At any rate, the book might be worth mentioning: it's by Vivien Law, and is called, Wisdom, authority, and grammar in the seventh centruy : decoding Virgilius Maro Grammaticus (Cambridge University Press, 1995). She tries valiantly to place PVM within his context, and does something useful in that respect, as I recall. Phil Thibodeau Dear Andre'-Paul, P.Virgilius Maro of Toulouse (fl.ca.A.D. 630) is mentioned a few times in Helen Waddell's The Wandering Scholars (1936, 7th ed. rev.): p.30 It was a low tide [in Latin letters] on the Continent of Europe, except for one deep pool at Toulouse where the grammarian Virgilius Maro agitated strangely on the secret tongues of Latin, and told his story of the two scholars who argued for fifteen days and nights without sleeping or eating on the frequentative of the verb to be, till it almost came to knives, rather like the monsters one exspects to find stranded in an ebb. (Waddell refers to a Epist.de Verbo (Teubner, p.138) and De Catalogo Grammaticorum ,( pp.88-90).) p.40-41,n.3 The style of Martianus Capella is thoroughly vicious, and Virgilius Maro of Tolouse with his secret Latin known only to the initiate sets just the kind of riddle to intrigue the barbarian mind. Domenico Comparetti in his Vergil in the Middle Ages(p.124 ,Eng .trans) describes Virgilius Maro in the following bravura passage : . . . that enigmatical monstrosity, at once comic and tragic, the Vergil of Tolouse, who considered in respect of his surroundings and origin, gives the impression of little else than a grim joke. He is perhaps the only medieval grammarian who deserves to be called original, but his originality takes a strange turn. Ideas, facts, names of authors, words and rules are all alike invented by his fertile brain, which ends by distinguishing twelve different kinds of Latin, and putting Vergil in the time of the Flood. This strange writer, with his claims to great grammatical authority and his adoption of the name of Vergilius Maro to enforce those claims, reminds one irresistibly in the squalor of his time (6th-7th century) of those hideous and putrid fungi which are generated in the rotting leaves of autumn . . . Comparetti refers (p.124,n.9) to a complete edition of Virgilius Maro's works: I. Huemer(ed.)(1886) Virgilii Maronis Grammatici Opera Lipsiæ: Teubner. Incidentally, Ennodius (ca.A.D.473-521) was angry that the name of Virgil had been adopted by worthless men. He addressed such a one thus: In tantum prisci defluxit fama Maronis, ut te Vergilium sæcula nostra darent. si fatuo dabitur tam sanctum nomen homullo gloria maiorum curret in opprobrium, etc [Carm. ii.118 ff quoted by Comparetti p.71 Eng. trans.] As far as I know P.Virgilius Maro Grammaticus of Tolouse is the only one to have adopted the whole of Virgil's name ! I have only ever come across a few men named Virgil: (1)Vergilius Romanus, a friend of Pliny the Younger; (2)Virgilianus, the son of Vibius Sequester (the author of de Fluminibus Fontibus Lacubus etc which preserved a line by Cornelius Gallus on the river Hypanis);(3) one of Alcuin's fellow scholars who adopted it as a pen name ;(4) Polydore Vergil; and its American use as a first name is exemplified by (5) the composer Virgil Thomson, and (7) a television character in McHale's Navy. Are there any others, I wonder? Best wishes Peter JVD BRYANT Perth Western Australia [EMAIL PROTECTED] P.S. Your quotation of the First Eclogue pleases me: it is one of my favourite passages from Virgil. --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: Another Virgilius Maro?
Dear Andre'-Paul, P.Virgilius Maro of Toulouse (fl.ca.A.D. 630) is mentioned a few times in Helen Waddell's The Wandering Scholars (1936, 7th ed. rev.): p.30 It was a low tide [in Latin letters] on the Continent of Europe, except for one deep pool at Toulouse where the grammarian Virgilius Maro agitated strangely on the secret tongues of Latin, and told his story of the two scholars who argued for fifteen days and nights without sleeping or eating on the frequentative of the verb to be, till it almost came to knives, rather like the monsters one exspects to find stranded in an ebb. (Waddell refers to a Epist.de Verbo (Teubner, p.138) and De Catalogo Grammaticorum ,( pp.88-90).) p.40-41,n.3 The style of Martianus Capella is thoroughly vicious, and Virgilius Maro of Tolouse with his secret Latin known only to the initiate sets just the kind of riddle to intrigue the barbarian mind. Domenico Comparetti in his Vergil in the Middle Ages(p.124 ,Eng .trans) describes Virgilius Maro in the following bravura passage : . . . that enigmatical monstrosity, at once comic and tragic, the Vergil of Tolouse, who considered in respect of his surroundings and origin, gives the impression of little else than a grim joke. He is perhaps the only medieval grammarian who deserves to be called original, but his originality takes a strange turn. Ideas, facts, names of authors, words and rules are all alike invented by his fertile brain, which ends by distinguishing twelve different kinds of Latin, and putting Vergil in the time of the Flood. This strange writer, with his claims to great grammatical authority and his adoption of the name of Vergilius Maro to enforce those claims, reminds one irresistibly in the squalor of his time (6th-7th century) of those hideous and putrid fungi which are generated in the rotting leaves of autumn . . . Comparetti refers (p.124,n.9) to a complete edition of Virgilius Maro's works: I. Huemer(ed.)(1886) Virgilii Maronis Grammatici Opera Lipsiæ: Teubner. Incidentally, Ennodius (ca.A.D.473-521) was angry that the name of Virgil had been adopted by worthless men. He addressed such a one thus: In tantum prisci defluxit fama Maronis, ut te Vergilium sæcula nostra darent. si fatuo dabitur tam sanctum nomen homullo gloria maiorum curret in opprobrium, etc [Carm. ii.118 ff quoted by Comparetti p.71 Eng. trans.] As far as I know P.Virgilius Maro Grammaticus of Tolouse is the only one to have adopted the whole of Virgil's name ! I have only ever come across a few men named Virgil: (1)Vergilius Romanus, a friend of Pliny the Younger; (2)Virgilianus, the son of Vibius Sequester (the author of de Fluminibus Fontibus Lacubus etc which preserved a line by Cornelius Gallus on the river Hypanis);(3) one of Alcuin's fellow scholars who adopted it as a pen name ;(4) Polydore Vergil; and its American use as a first name is exemplified by (5) the composer Virgil Thomson, and (7) a television character in McHale's Navy. Are there any others, I wonder? Best wishes Peter JVD BRYANT Perth Western Australia [EMAIL PROTECTED] P.S. Your quotation of the First Eclogue pleases me: it is one of my favourite passages from Virgil. A.P.H. Itel wrote: I am sorry to ask a question that may not have a direct connection with Virgil, and I apologize to everyone that may be not happy with that. Does someone know about a philosopher or grammarian called « Virgilius Maro » who was living in the 7th century? I would like to read something about this author, his life, his works. Thank you for your help. === Andre-Paul Itel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hic tamen hanc mecum poteras requiescere noctem Fronde super viridi. Super nobis mitia poma, Castaneae molles et pressi copia lactis; Et jam summa procul villarum culmina fumant, Majoresque cadunt altis de montibus umbrae. __ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: Another Virgilius Maro?
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Philip Thibodeau [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes The collection of quotations regarding P. Virgilius Maro was very entertaining. I recall reading a review of a book on PVM and wondering whether this was an April Fool's edition of the journal it was in! At any rate, the book might be worth mentioning: it's by Vivien Law, and is called, Wisdom, authority, and grammar in the seventh centruy : decoding Virgilius Maro Grammaticus (Cambridge University Press, 1995). She tries valiantly to place PVM within his context, and does something useful in that respect, as I recall. No poisson d'Avril by her or by the journal; but PVM had his tongue in his cheek all right. The debate between 'Terrentius' (sic, a frequent Irish spelling; but remember how Varro is always working his _nomen_ in) and 'Galbungus' on the vocative of _ego_ recalls the debate in Gellius 14.5 on the vocative of egregius. *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road usque adeone Oxford scire MEVM nihil est, nisi ME scire hoc sciat alter? OX2 6EJ tel. +44 (0)1865 552808(home)/267865(work) fax +44 (0)1865 512237 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: More Vergils
Backing up a bit, the correspondent from Australia was mistaken when he said that the first instance of Virgil as a first name in the US occurred with the composer Virgil Thompson. Not true. The name has been used in the US for generations and, Virgil Thompson notwithstanding, (dare I say it here?) typically has rural, country bumpkin, or even hillbilly connotations. Greg Farnum Rochester Hills, Michigan Dr Helen Conrad wrote: And let us not forget Vergil of Salzburg whose discussions of the antipodes made poor Boniface so nervous. Helen Conard-O'Briain --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: Another Virgilius Maro?
At 04:32 PM 9/22/99 +, you wrote: As far as I know P.Virgilius Maro Grammaticus of Tolouse is the only one to have adopted the whole of Virgil's name ! I have only ever come across a few men named Virgil: (1)Vergilius Romanus, a friend of Pliny the Younger; (2)Virgilianus, the son of Vibius Sequester (the author of de Fluminibus Fontibus Lacubus etc which preserved a line by Cornelius Gallus on the river Hypanis);(3) one of Alcuin's fellow scholars who adopted it as a pen name ;(4) Polydore Vergil; and its American use as a first name is exemplified by (5) the composer Virgil Thomson, and (7) a television character in McHale's Navy. Are there any others, I wonder? Let us not forget Virgil Gus Grissom, who unintentionally scuttled his Mercury space capsule in the Atlantic (or so it says in _The Right Stuff_). --- David Wilson-Okamurahttp://virgil.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] Macalester College Virgil Tradition: discussion, bibliography, c. --- --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: More Vergils
Yes, I have to acknowledge that those hillbilly associations do exist, in the U.S. context; the same for the name Homer, unfortunately. But I don't know how that came about, and I wish I knew. Homer and Virgil are my two favorite poets, but if I had wanted to name my son in honor of one or both of them, my husband would have rebelled--understandably, given the U.S. ambience. What's the British attitude? Doesn't anyone there give the name Homer or Virgil to their son? After all, one meets Englishmen named Terence, etc. Randi Eldevik Oklahoma State University On Wed, 22 Sep 1999, Greg Farnum wrote: Backing up a bit, the correspondent from Australia was mistaken when he said that the first instance of Virgil as a first name in the US occurred with the composer Virgil Thompson. Not true. The name has been used in the US for generations and, Virgil Thompson notwithstanding, (dare I say it here?) typically has rural, country bumpkin, or even hillbilly connotations. Greg Farnum Rochester Hills, Michigan Dr Helen Conrad wrote: And let us not forget Vergil of Salzburg whose discussions of the antipodes made poor Boniface so nervous. Helen Conard-O'Briain --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: Another Virgilius Maro?
I must apologize to Peter from Perth, he DID NOT claim that Virgil Thompson was the first. I plead a hasty and furtive reading at work as my extenuating circumstance. Still, the discussion is an interesting one; and yes, the name Homer, when pinned on an American, is just as hayseed as Virgil. Greg Farnum Jim O'Hara wrote: . and its American use as a first name is exemplified by (5) the composer Virgil Thomson, and (7) a television character in McHale's Navy. Are there any others, I wonder? Best wishes Peter JVD BRYANT Perth Western Australia [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nine major-league baseball players, eight born 1894-1917, and one in the 20's, have been named Virgil: From http://www.totalbaseball.com/ Virgil Abernathy Virgil Barnes Virgil Cheeves Virgil Davis Virgil Garriott Virgil Garvin Virgil Jester Thomas Virgil Red Stallcup Virgil Trucks Jim O'Hara James J. O'Hara Professor of Classical Studies Chair Classical Studies Dept. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wesleyan University 860/685-2066 (fax: 2089) Middletown CT 06459-0146 Home Page: http://www.wesleyan.edu/classics/faculty/jim.html --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: Another Virgilius Maro?
James Butrica schrieb: Message forwarded by moderator follows. From: F. Heberlein [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:08:46 +1 Does someone know about a philosopher or grammarian called « Virgilius Maro » who was living in the 7th century? I would like to read something about this author, his life, his works. This is Vergilius Maro Grammaticus, famous for his claim to have attended in his youth a 13 days dispute on the correct vocative of ego (now and then i ask our undergrads the 'correct' solution, and more than often i get replies like o ege ...). Under what circumstances would one use a vocative form of the 1st-person singular pronoun? And please don't keep us in suspense: which form did VMG regard as correct, and which were the competing forms? yes, funny indeed, but let's remember the Greek neighbour form: Odysseias e (book 5), 299: ô moi egô deilos ... grusz, hansz http://home.t-online.de/home/03581413454/sprachen.htm --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: Another Virgilius Maro?
. and its American use as a first name is exemplified by (5) the composer Virgil Thomson, and (7) a television character in McHale's Navy. Are there any others, I wonder? Best wishes Peter JVD BRYANT Perth Western Australia [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nine major-league baseball players, eight born 1894-1917, and one in the 20's, have been named Virgil: From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Sep 23 10:31:04 1999 X-Mozilla-Status: 0010 X-Mozilla-Status2: From mantovano-returns Wed Sep 22 15:12:53 1999 Received: ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) by wilsoninet.com (8.8.5) id PAA00471; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:12:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:09:31 +0100 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Leofranc Holford-Strevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: VIRGIL: More Vergils References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Version 4.01 5F+CKYUQomUVIsIr63$Pff++gY Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-UIDL: 248a75c9f13094635017f5b01f0eaaec Status: U In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] edu, RANDI C ELDEVIK [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Yes, I have to acknowledge that those hillbilly associations do exist, in the U.S. context; the same for the name Homer, unfortunately. But I don't know how that came about, and I wish I knew. Homer and Virgil are my two favorite poets, but if I had wanted to name my son in honor of one or both of them, my husband would have rebelled--understandably, given the U.S. ambience. What's the British attitude? Doesn't anyone there give the name Homer or Virgil to their son? After all, one meets Englishmen named Terence, etc. Can't say I've ever come across or heard of a British 'Homer' or 'Virgil', high, low, or middle class. Leofranc Holford-Strevens *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road usque adeone Oxford scire MEVM nihil est, nisi ME scire hoc sciat alter? OX2 6EJ tel. +44 (0)1865 552808(home)/267865(work) fax +44 (0)1865 512237 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: More Vergils
What's the British attitude? Doesn't anyone there give the name Homer or Virgil to their son? After all, one meets Englishmen named Terence, etc. To someone like me brought up in the UK, Homer and Virgil used as forenames sound distinctly American -- I didn't know they had a hillbilly ring. In England I don't think Terence is taken to allude to the Roman playwright. Nor Horace to the poet. I've never heard of anyone called Plautus or Catullus. I'm sure I've heard or read of a dog called Virgil (or perhaps it was Vergil) but I can't remember where. In Malta there was (is?) a fashion for Greek names, e.g. Sir Themistocles Zammit. Back to work! (I'm editing a book on a field of study I didn't even know existed -- the constitutional law of revolutions. Cases cited come from Restoration England, the secessionist South, UDI Rhodesia, Grenada, Fiji, Queensland, etc., but so far nothing from ancient Rome, unless you count a quotation from De Civ. Dei, IV, 4.) Simon Cauchi, Hamilton, New Zealand [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: More Vergils
I knew a cat called Virgil once, but I don't suppose that counts. Caroline Butler --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
