Re: MD: What up with MD
On 06-08-2000 07:15, las wrote: MD could still be a big thing if a) People were educated. b) They started to fill music stores with prerecorded MDs that were selling for the price of cassettes, not CDs. c) They started offering recorders and players at realistic and competitive prices. I can't see any reason why a portable MD player should cost more then a portable CD player. And don't forget complexity; they shoud have sold low-end MD recorders that are the equivalent of a tape deck: record, play, pause, stop, fast-forward, rewind. No frills like editing etc., way too daunting for the average technofobe (my parents or sister, for instance). But everyone has their hits and misses. When Phillips and Sony got together and created the CD they eventually had a hit on their hands (CDs were not moving off of the shelves for quite some time after they were introduced). Sony had Beta. Phillips had the DCC. Philips also had their own video format that failed: V2000. It failed because they refused to rent porn tapes. You have to admit that the DCC was a much bigger failure then Beta. Beta is still used professionally and did generate some sales. But how many people do you know who own a DCC? Two. They're quite happy with them, they bought their (portable) recorders just after they wer discontinued for bargain-base prices. But a downside to DCC is the size of the media; while it was sort of a boon that regular analog cassettes can be played in them, it was already determined that protable DCC equipment would never be smaller than a casstte box. Look how tiny the latest MD protables are... Phillips also had the CD-I. Another bust. Expensive and you had to buy a separate video module to play movies and certain games. The quality of the movies was not good. This is an interesting comparison... CD-I failed mostly because it's biggest competitor was the CD-ROM, which emerged more or less at the same time. CD-ROM is much more versatile, and came out on top. I daresay part of the problem with MD is that DataMD never caught on, for various reasons (speed, interchangeability with MusicMD, price...). When I was a kid RCA had the original cassette. It was much bigger in size then the compact cassette, but didn't sell. DATs never caught on in the consumer market. Because of copy protection schemes, mostly, I think. Which is in part what is holding MiniDisc back. Look at the MP3 craze; people are willing to settle for lesser audio quality, if it means they can easily record and swap music. In a sense, this is why compact cassettes are still quite popular; a taped copy of a CD sounds like crap, but it's cheap, easy to make, and you can swap it easily. ,xtG .tsooJ -- Joost van de Griek Applications Developer Yacht ICT http://www.yachtgroup.com/ - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: What up with MD
"Philips also had their own video format that failed: V2000. It failed because they refused to rent porn tapes." The whole video tape thing might have never gotten anywhere if it were not for porn. That's a fact. The original tapes that were available for sale/rental were porn. There's a case where what some people might consider vulgar, offensive, immoral or what ever, brought upon the availability of people being able to watch the greatest movies ever made. Right in their homes, when they want, with no commercials and uncut. With DVDs we are now seeing alternate versions of movies on the same disc. I personally don't have an opinion about so called porn. There is a time and a place for almost everything. If it offends you don't watch it. But don't tell others what to do as you sit there watching the Sound of Music (which you could have never seen uncut with no commercials if it were not for X rated videos). Getting off of the MD topic, sorry. I would love to see the results of a prerecorded MD vs CD test. I seriously doubt that if all the other factors are equal most people could hear the difference between a well produced and recorded MD and a CD. I make all of my MDs using digital connections. But when I first got my MZ-1 I had to wait for the optical cable to come in. So I made some discs in analog. I find it impossible to tell which are which using headphones. This is not to say that I don't recommend people use digital connections. But sometimes I wonder if most people can hear the difference. I think that it comes down to the equipment that you are using. On a set of $40 headphones, I don't think you could tell. But maybe on a very high end system with top of the line Polk speakers for example you can. More ramblings of a mad man Larry - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MD: monauralizing algorithms: An Explanation
I have been messing around with my MD recorder again this morning and I think I may have figured out what is happening. The results I posted previously show a frequency dependant loss in volume, which increases as the frequency increases. If the signals from the two input channels were out of phase with each other when they were combined, some interference would occur. The loss in amplitude depends on the phase difference. For example, if the phase difference is pi radians, or 180 degrees, the two signals cancel out. For general phase differences the amplitude is always less than the original. Hence a volume loss will occur if the two identical input channels are out of phase when added together. As the amount of volume loss increases with increasing frequency, it is clear that the phase difference is increasing with increasing frequency. As my results cover 1-20kHz, the phase difference between the two input channels is increasing over this range. As the volume is never reduced to zero, the phase difference must be less than pi radians for all input frequencies in this range, and it also must be increasing from 1kHz to 20kHz. Returning to my previous idea of the channels being out of sync. with each other, this type of phase difference could be caused by a synchronisation problem between the two channels on combination. If the two channels were out of sync. by one sample then it turns out that for zero volume mono output, the frequency of the input wave would be f/2 where f is the sampling frequency of the input signal (I will post a proof of this later). f was 44100Hz for my experiment, giving an input frequency for total volume loss of 22.05kHz. This fits quite well with my data, because the volume was very small at an input frequency of 20kHz. Because of the good fit with the experiment I decided to retry my initial experiment with a data source where the channels were out of sync. by one sample. To do this I wrote a small C program (email me if you want a copy) to read in a wave file and write it out with the left channel one sample behind the right channel (a guess: I had a 50% chance of getting it right), and redid my experiment at a frequency of 16kHz. This time the volume loss was greater than before. So, I tried it the other way round: the right channel one sample behind the left channel. Voila! there was no volume loss! I retested all the frequencies I used in my experiment from 10-20kHz and none suffered any volume loss with this adjustment. So, to conclude, Sony's monauralizing algorithm has the channels out of sync. by one sample, with the left channel one sample in front of the right channel. I don't think this is occuring in the SPDIF data stream because the synchronisation information embedded wouldn't allow this. Instead I think there is a bug in Sony's DSP software. I will post a more mathematical proof of this at a later date. Jonathan - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MD: PC transfer
Did anyone compare the difference between digital transfer of songs from a PC vs. analog? I have downloaded many songs to my MD using just a mini cable out into my MD input. Results are very good. Sometimes I have to edit as the PC does little repeats due to hard drive activity, I guess. Thanks for feedback. Jerry - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: PC transfer
More often than not, you're not going to notice much difference, unless your analog connections carry any hum or feedback. If you get little repeats and such from your PC on the analog connection, you'll also get them on the digital connection, although you should only get them when recording from WAV or MP3 files on your hard drive. If recording from your CD/DVD-ROM drive, the only thing you should have to worry about is your Windows events sounds popping up in the middle of your recordings. For those instances, I always turn off WAV playback while recording from my CDs. On Sun, 6 Aug 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Did anyone compare the difference between digital transfer of songs from a PC vs. analog? I have downloaded many songs to my MD using just a mini cable out into my MD input. Results are very good. Sometimes I have to edit as the PC does little repeats due to hard drive activity, I guess. Thanks for feedback. Jerry - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: PC transfer
Did anyone compare the difference between digital transfer of songs from a PC vs. analog? I have downloaded many songs to my MD using just a mini cable out into my MD input. Results are very good. Sometimes I have to edit as the PC does little repeats due to hard drive activity, I guess. Thanks for feedback. Jerry I've got an Aureal Vortex2 soundcard (which has an optical output) and I tried both analogue and digital recording. I couldn't tell a difference between the two (MZ-R55 recorder and Sony MDR-V200 headphones). [OT: can anyone recommend a soundcard for Windows 2000? Aureal's drivers are still very poor (they hadn't finished them when they went under), and daily reboots just to get sound working again are no fun. Anyone using an SBLive? Reply off-list, etc. Ta.] -- Simon - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MD: USB audio out connectors ,was Re: PC transfer
Hi, There are a coup[le of these available now (Sony's PC Link, Thunderwire (www.thunderwire.com), and Xitel's MD Port (www.xitel.com). All of them claim that all you need is the USB port. Well, some sound cards have digital out, and some don't, right? So, if my laptop's soundcard doesn't have digital out (Music Match's Jukebox *does* give scratches while in digital mode for me -- analog sounds fine), then will using my USB port really accomplish anything? Thanks for any replies. Greg __ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MD: Target
Speaking of drug testers, I just noticed that Target has two different PC-Link-equipped portables for sale. They've been selling blank discs for several years and in fact just added Maxell and Memorex after previously only stocking Sony. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Target
Circuit City advertised a Sony portable (I think it was the 37) a few weeks ago for $199.00 which it says comes with a PC connect cable. If Sony had been selling their portable recorders for this price 3 years ago, the MD might have had a fighting chance. This cable is USB. But the problem that I see is that you still have to record in real time. Actually even with a CD Writer, if you want to be sure that you get a perfect copy, it is best to record in real time. I suppose if you have a super fast computer and hard drive might not matter. My flagship is only an AMD 500 and I'm sure that the hard drive is just average. Larry "Jeff J. Voeller" wrote: Speaking of drug testers, I just noticed that Target has two different PC-Link-equipped portables for sale. They've been selling blank discs for several years and in fact just added Maxell and Memorex after previously only stocking Sony. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MD: MD at Target
With all of the talk about Bust Buy, etc., I just had to mention that In their Sunday newspaper flier, Target has a blurb about "New At Target--Minidisc". What they have are a couple of Sony portable player/recorders, but anything that makes MD more visible is okay with me. They also have 5 packs of Sony MD blanks for $9.99, which is not a bad price. Go figure, though, Target of all places...MD, right there between the disposable diapers and the dog food... Chris Callahan -- home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL: http://www.coldwatercentral.com -- - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: What's up with Best Buy !
Jeffrey Scorsone wrote: I used to work for Best Buy years ago, and they do screen for drugs. I can't say for an of the other stores that have been mentioned. Well I just check with my daughter and her friend was tested. I couldn't believe that he and his roommate were hired because I knew that they couldn't pass. But it turned out that the guy who hired them was kind of sketchy himself. They knew him from when they all worked at Circuit City. He was the manager there and was fired for pulling crap to make is sales numbers look better, etc. But he was get to work for. If he liked you, you could get open box stuff for a fraction of it's cost. Employees at CC are not supposed to even be able to buy open box specials. I've never been to a Best Buy. But I will visit this one when it opens in September. This place must be a piece of work. They hire the people fired from CC (all three of them were fired from CC and are now going to be managers at BB. What a joke. Larry - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: monauralizing algorithms: An Explanation
On Sun, 6 Aug 2000, Eric Woudenberg wrote: May I ask that you please write up your findings carefully and let me post it as its own web page on the MDCP? Sure. I'll get on to it tomorrow. It would be interesting to try this experiment on some other equipment, a portable, and a machine from a different manufacturer. Definitely. Unfortunately the Sony deck is the only recorder I have. I'll look into borrowing my friend's Sharp 702 at some time. I would suspect (hope?) that MD equipment from other manufacturers does not suffer from the same problem. Jonathan - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: What's up with Best Buy !
"Political issues aside, one of the fundamental problems with drug testing is that it just plain doesn't work. False results, both negative and positive, are pretty common. But it makes great PR. That's true all around. If you eat a poppy seed bagel you will test positive. I'm serious. Larry - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Blargh. (MiniDisk Blues - Help?)
Jason I am forwarding your mail to the Minidisc list. I don't have any experiance with the USB port. YOu might open the Volume control from the start menu, not the taskbar, and click on options, properties, and make sure everything is checked that you want to listen from. Jason Dilg wrote: Trying to set up my new minidisk player with an interface into my pc seems to have bombed my audio settings somehow. I can't hear any playback on anything. I've checked the cables and the volume settings, and everything seems to be plugged in and the volume on. Do any of you have any idea what might be going on? The minidisk is the Sony MZ-R70 with the USB port cable. HELP! Thanks in advance ... Jason Dilg Denver, CO Mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Jim Coon Not just another pretty mandolin picker. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If Gibson made cars, would they sound so sweet? My first web page http://www.tir.com/~liteways - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MD: MiniDisc Weekly News for 6 August 2000
MiniDisc Community Pages News for 30 July 2000 o David Popovits addresses several [1]repair questions from readers. [1] http://www.minidisc.org/repair_q1.html o Attachai Ueranantasun finds [2]dStore Music (Australia) selling pre-recorded MDs. [2] http://dstore.com.au/music/catalog.asp?topicID=3967filters= MiniDisc Community Pages News for 31 July 2000 o David Popovits tackles [1]further repair questions from readers. [1] http://www.minidisc.org/repair_q2.html MiniDisc Community Pages News for 1 August 2000 o Mark Bausch spots the [1]Nomad Jukebox portable player. The $400, 6GB hard drive based unit handles both MP3 and Windows Media format audio. [1] http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1006-200-2374345.html o Bryan Hansen gives [2]careful plans for a Sharp MD-MS702 external battery pack. [2] http://udel.edu/~bhansen o Mark Bausch points out our oversight: The [3]Aiwa AM-C80 on Ebyweb is apparently an AA dry-cell powered variant of the [4]Aiwa AM-F80. [3] http://www.ebyweb.com/aiwamporminr.html [4] http://www.minidisc.org/part_Aiwa_AM-F75+80.html o Jeff LaPort has made [5]postscript edge label files for various brand blanks. [5] http://minidisc.selera.com o Kheops Minidisc offers [6]MD racks that couple together (1+1=3). [6] http://www.kheopsminidisc.com/md_tower1.htm MiniDisc Community Pages News for 3 August 2000 o Andrew Stafford kindly scans in the entire [1]Sony MZ-R70 user manual. [1] http://members.xoom.com/mzr70_manual/contents.htm o Robert Schwartz finds Sharp's pdf format [2]MD-MT831 user operation manual ([3]Sharp page ). [2] http://www.minidisc.org/manuals/sharp_mdmt831.pdf [3] http://www.sharp.co.uk/support/manuals2.asp?Code=MD-MT831H o Jill Carter recommends using MD for [4]preparing cassette mixes. [4] http://www.minidisc.org/trick_tips.html#cassetteprep o Karsten gives a tip for [5]undoing the effects of Sharp's service mode. [5] http://www.minidisc.org/trick_tips.html#unservice o Trucki submits a [6]QBasic titling program for Sharp portables. [6] http://www.minidisc.org/sharp_qbasic_titler.html MiniDisc Community Pages News for 5 August 2000 o We have the beginnings of an [1]MD LP mode FAQ. [1] http://www.minidisc.org/mdlpfaq.html o Tim Banney notes that Xitel's MDPort-DG1 USB to Digital converter is [2]available from Minidisco. [2] http://www.minidisco.com/minispecs/xitelmdportdg1.html o More [3]Repair QA with readers from David Popovits. [3] http://www.minidisc.org/repair_q3.html o Brand name CD/MP3: Ramon de la Fuente points out MP3.com's review of the [4]Philips Expanium portable CD/MP3 player. [4] http://hardware.mp3.com/hardware/individual/portable/2973.html o Peter Gloviczki points out [5]Statman Electronics, carrying several pieces of [6]MD equipment. [5] http://statman.vstoreelectronics.com [6] http://www.vstore.com/cgi-bin/pagegen/vstoreelectronics/statman/page.html?mode=searchfile=%2Fpage%2Fsearch%2Fsearchresults.splkeywords=minidisc o Per Hoffmann finds [7]Midiman's CO3 format converter page. [7] http://www.midiman.com/m-audio/html/products/co3a.htm Minidisco- Free-range MiniDiscs, Humanely Raised http://www.minidisco.com/ - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: What up with MD
las wrote: I make all of my MDs using digital connections. But when I first got my MZ-1 I had to wait for the optical cable to come in. So I made some discs in analog. I find it impossible to tell which are which using headphones. This is not to say that I don't recommend people use digital connections. But sometimes I wonder if most people can hear the difference. I think that it comes down to the equipment that you are using. On a set of $40 headphones, I don't think you could tell. But maybe on a very high end system with top of the line Polk speakers for example you can. Exactly my original point. I am not an audiophile but I do recognize a good and useful media when I see it. I would not hear the difference on $40 headphones, and probably not on $150 headphones either (unless it was pointed out to me)... What I care about, and what makes MD so attractive to me is its convience. Sony et al must know that people tape CDs for each other all the time. And they can't be so stupid as to think that they wiil kill off services/programs like Napster Stuff like that will always be going on on the Net... why don't they make it easy and available for the most people to do it in the best format? They would make more money than Microsoft (and probably get sued by the governement too)! Charlie - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: What up with MD
Good point... I have seen a few bands come through town using drun tracks and click tracks with little MD players and instructions for sound guys. Way more convienent than DAT... c J. Coon wrote: === = NB: Over 50% of this message is QUOTED, please = = be more selective when quoting text = === Charles Redell wrote: I hate to say this but I really have to say that I don't think we are going to see MD become the cassette of the aughts and tens Sony has very much abandonded the concept here and is now marketing it solely to us, those people who will pay more for quality sound and performance... Well, a lot of musicians are discovering them for the first time. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
