Re: MD: JE640 vs. JB940
--- "David W. Tamkin" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I buy the 640 but the 940 sounds better, I might say "darn." Not even "damn," just "darn" if even that. However, the 940 owner may cry when I tell him/her how much less my 640 weighs and how much less electricity it uses. (The kwh are very expensive here.) Out of curiosity, how much power do the 940 and 640 consume, and how much is a kWh where you are? Ian = "First, there were some amoebas. Deviant amoebas adapted better to the environment, thus becoming monkeys. Then came Total Quality Management." -- Scott Adams http://www.btinternet.com/~ighorsey __ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: JE640 vs. JB940
From: "Ian Horsey" [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- "David W. Tamkin" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I buy the 640 but the 940 sounds better, I might say "darn." Not even "damn," just "darn" if even that. However, the 940 owner may cry when I tell him/her how much less my 640 weighs and how much less electricity it uses. (The kwh are very expensive here.) Out of curiosity, how much power do the 940 and 640 consume, and how much is a kWh where you are? Ian Someone said the 940 is stated as using 12W against the 640 using 9W of power. Northern Electric charge me 7.78 uk pence per KWh during the day and 2.42 uk pence per KWh between -0700 UTC (7 hours cheaper rate). Both prices are including vat, ie the total amount I pay. So if I kept the 940 on 24hrs a day, it would cost a (not so grand) total of 1.79 pence per day, or to put it in perspective if I left it on 24x7 365 days a year, the year's electricity would amount to ukp6.50 or about US$10. I generally find power consumption figures are higher than actual consumption so something like US$6-8 would likely be closer. And remember thats 24x7 all year. You could always turn it off :-) I too would be interested in knowing how much peeps in other countries are charged for electricity. Yours, PrinceGaz. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: JE640 vs. JB940
--- PrinceGaz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Someone said the 940 is stated as using 12W against the 640 using 9W of power. snip So if I kept the 940 on 24hrs a day, it would cost a (not so grand) total of 1.79 pence per day, or to put it in perspective if I left it on 24x7 365 days a year, the year's electricity would amount to ukp6.50 Thanks Gaz, I didn't think that the power consumption would be that great. So assuming that a 640 and 940 owner left their units on all day in the UK for a year, the 640 owner would be, at best, ukp2.20 better off. Enough for a copy of What Hi-Fi? Not a big selling point :o) Ian = "First, there were some amoebas. Deviant amoebas adapted better to the environment, thus becoming monkeys. Then came Total Quality Management." -- Scott Adams http://www.btinternet.com/~ighorsey __ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: JE640 vs. JB940
Richard responded, | It's a real shame you can't try them out. Prior to your post I would have | thought that New Zealand was about the hardest place in the world to access | and try MD items. It seems that in the US one finds MD equipment nowadays only in the chain stores, which carry portables and maybe some low-end decks. I wouldn't know where in metropolitan Chicago to find other models any longer; a few years ago I might have gone into United Audio (who carry no MD stuff any more) or Abt (who might still have an R91 or R90 around), but now I'd be stuck. Best Buy won't carry these models, and I doubt that Circuit City will have the 640. | Please be assured my post was not meant to be condescending, nor | was I trying to "turn you toward buying the 940", it's not like I'm | connected with Sony or anything and I own a 520 myself after all. There was no hint of condescension, and I'm sorry if I implied there was. When I said you were trying to turn me toward the 940, the only passage that seemed that way was your description of how if I bought the 640, then when I hear someone else's 940 I would cry. (Right now I wish I could cry; I had eye surgery last week and am going through the artificial tears like ... well, like water.) | I wouldn't have believed there would be a | difference between the CD players I tried sound wise until I actually tried | them, so maybe you'd be surprised too, if you had the opportunity. Richard, once there was a debate on alt.audio.minidisc whether the output of a Sony deck in monitor mode is ATRAC-encoded and decoded or passed through untouched from the input. I decided to test for myself, and to try to keep this short, I took an SCMS-unlimited source and, with various combinations of recording and monitoring, made the following copies (all transfers optical): 1. a first-generation MD from the CD; 2. a fourth-generation MD (a copy of a copy of a copy of MD #1); 3. a thirteenth-generation MD; 4. an MD that would be first-generation if monitoring does not encode but fourth if it does; and 5. an MD that would be thirteenth-generation if monitoring encodes but fourth if it does not. The idea was to compare #5 with #2 and #3 and #4 with #1 and #2. But I could not tell a difference. When I couldn't, I tried comparing #3 to #1, and al- though I knew which was which, I still couldn't tell a difference! So if there's any advantage of the 940's DAC over the 640's (or vice versa), it would be lost on me. | One thing I've noticed in many of the reviews of MD items on the MDCP is | that often people overlook mentioning how the MD thing they've bought | actually sounds! Maybe it's because they all sound good? | On weight - you do seem to view the greater weight spec of the 940 as | negative. Yes. First, there are no bulging rocks of muscle under these mounds of blubber, and second, I have no fancy stereo furniture (nor place to put any), so my components are in a stack on a small rolling table. Already the CDR recorder sits atop three MD decks atop a CD changer. The new MD unit will make six; the extra weight is not good for the table, the carpet, the gravi- tational stability of the stack, nor my back. Perhaps I could decommission the 500 and store it or sell it, but I can already see Parkinson's Law coming into play and situations where I'll need all four MD decks. Oh yes: the table also supports the middle section of my shelf system next to the stack of decks. | I can see Scale Factor Edit could be useful for adjusting the level of the | MDs you record ... Scale Factor Edit, far more so than LP modes, was what I wanted a 940 for. Now it comes out that the 640 has Scale Factor Edit (and LP!) as well. | Just trying to be helpful, ... Yes, thank you, much appreciated. Ian Horsey asked, Out of curiosity, how much power do the 940 and 640 consume, and how much is a kWh where you are? Rick had given the figures his earlier response to my original question that started this thread, and Gaz has reposted them: 12W vs. 9W. With taxes and all I guess we get soaked for around 9c per kWh. There are no figures for the difference in power consumption during standby, so let's say for argu- ment's sake that there is none: if I run it for three hours on an average day, that's like 1100 hours a year, or 3.3 kWh of difference, or 30c. If there's a three-watt difference even during standby, that's about $2.40 per year. If the 940 had some clear advantage over the 640, I'd blow off the $2.40 per year, but if it doesn't, well, it could be the straw that breaks the camel's back. More likely the extra four pounds (avoirdupois, not sterling) will break *my* back, or they'll break the table. New data: inetshopping.com has the 940 for $US320 and the 640 for $234. I've a 940 on order from Video Direct for $289 (having believed at the time that the 640 would not have Scale Factor Edit), and they've promised me a quote on the 640 at the end of the week. If the
Re: MD: JE640 vs. JB940
=== = NB: Over 50% of this message is QUOTED, please = = be more selective when quoting text = === We pay something like $0.10 US per kWHr in the Detroit area, the fuel cost to make it ranges from $0.017 to $0.035, however, on hot days that cost can climb to $0.10 easily and I have seen it as high as $3.00/kWhr, but not for long. Peaking generation is inefficient and expensive. In any case 12 Watts turned on for 24 x 8760 hours is 105.12 kW. at ten cents, the yearly cost would be $10.50 US in Detroit. H, maybe I should look at how many clocks I have plugged in. PrinceGaz wrote: From: "Ian Horsey" [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- "David W. Tamkin" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I buy the 640 but the 940 sounds better, I might say "darn." Not even "damn," just "darn" if even that. However, the 940 owner may cry when I tell him/her how much less my 640 weighs and how much less electricity it uses. (The kwh are very expensive here.) Out of curiosity, how much power do the 940 and 640 consume, and how much is a kWh where you are? Ian Someone said the 940 is stated as using 12W against the 640 using 9W of power. Northern Electric charge me 7.78 uk pence per KWh during the day and 2.42 uk pence per KWh between -0700 UTC (7 hours cheaper rate). Both prices are including vat, ie the total amount I pay. So if I kept the 940 on 24hrs a day, it would cost a (not so grand) total of 1.79 pence per day, or to put it in perspective if I left it on 24x7 365 days a year, the year's electricity would amount to ukp6.50 or about US$10. I generally find power consumption figures are higher than actual consumption so something like US$6-8 would likely be closer. And remember thats 24x7 all year. You could always turn it off :-) I too would be interested in knowing how much peeps in other countries are charged for electricity. Yours, PrinceGaz. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Jim Coon Not just another pretty mandolin picker. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If Gibson made cars, would they sound so sweet? My first web page http://www.tir.com/~liteways - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: JE640 vs. JB940
Someone who wants to be called a Clueless Towel was kind enough to address my question. I had asked, Is there a comparison somewhere of the features of the Sony MDS-JE640 to those of their MDS-JB940? and Towel replied, | While looking for speakers today, a salesman thrust a copy of the latest | Sony New Zealand Pulse magazine into my hands. It has all the new MDLP | models in it. Thank you. | "Step Up Features" for the 940 over the 640 are: | Aluminium Front Panel | 2x Optical/ 1x Coaxial Input (640 has no coax) | Variable Coefficient Digital Filter 24 bit | R-Core Transformer | 1x Optical/ 1x Coaxial Output (again 640 has no coax) | Music Scan Even the JE5?0 machines have music scan; the 640 doesn't? It's not important to me anyway; I prefer just using FF to play the length I want from each song instead of the number of seconds for which music scan is set. | AND MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL! | Thick AC Cable How thick does it have to be? I wasn't planning to use the machine outdoors. The 940's power consumption is 1/3 more than that of the 640, so maybe it needs a sturdier cord. | I couldn't find this info on the web in English yet, so go pick up a copy of | Pulse. I probably couldn't find the New Zealand edition in the US, so thank you for sharing it. | Also what is "Scale Factor"? Scale Factor Edit is a capacity to change the volume level of a track after it's been recorded. That's why I want to buy one of those units. The 940 is heavier and uses more power; the only advantage it offers that is meaningful for me is the 24-bit filter. (OK, maybe the coax ports.) Unless the 640 turns out to be *more* expensive than the 940, I made a mistake. Video-Direct tell me they'll have a price on the JE640 by the end of the week. Sounds as though I'll cancel my order with them for a JB940 and get a JE640 instead. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MD: JE640 vs. JB940
When deciding which of the two units to buy, one comment I would make is: if you can, *listen* to the two units before you buy. Don't just go on specs or price alone, obviously price is one of the most important factors, but the device is designed for making sound, so the sound should also be an important consideration. Either way you're going to wind up spending a lot of money, so best to make sure you're not going to regret your choice either way. Go to a decent hi-fi store and A-B the two units on the same amp and speakers or if you can borrow the units to A-B in your home (some stores here in NZ will let you do this over a weekend or overnight, don't know how trusting they are overseas). Specs will tell you what features you're buying, and features, bells and whistles can be extremely important with MD gear. But specs won't tell you how it sounds - maybe the two units have different D/A converters. Maybe you won't notice a difference, or maybe you subscribe to the "all digital music sound reproduction systems must produce the same sound" school of thought in which case you free yourself up for the cheaper system with total confidence. But you never know. You don't want to get the cheaper machine and then go to someone's place is 9 months, hear the 940 in action and cry! I woudn't describe myself as an audiophile, but in my search for a decent CD player with a digital output for my JE520 I A-B'ed the current NZ model Sony CD players of the time - the CDPXE 500, 700(?) and 920. Each have different transports, D/A converters (or so I'm led to believe...) and different build quality. I won't argue which made the difference, but each CD player sounded different even though hooked up to the same amp and speakers, listened to from the same place and playing the same section of the same track from the same CD. They all sounded good, but the 920 was significantly better in sound - cleaner and more detailed, less fuzzy, plus it ws nicer to operate (including the digital filter, which it's sister MD models 930/940 have, which is fun). It was either buy the bottom model (still a considerable outlay), regret it, and lose money selling it later (which I've done before) or buy the better model and keep it. So. maybe the situation is the same with Sony MD separates. That said, it looks to me like the 640 is a new evolution of the 520 and I can vouch for the quality and sound of the 520 (mind you I've never compared it to a 920/930/940...!) p.s. Towel - where in NZ did you score the Sony Pulse from? I'm keen to lay my hands on a copy (if they're in Chch yet..) richard Richard Lang -Original Message- From: David W. Tamkin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, 16 August 2000 9:10 a.m. Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: MD: JE640 vs. JB940 Video-Direct tell me they'll have a price on the JE640 by the end of the week. Sounds as though I'll cancel my order with them for a JB940 and get a JE640 instead. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: JE640 vs. JB940
Richard, you and I live in different universes. | When deciding which of the two units to buy, one comment I would make is: | if you can, *listen* to the two units before you buy. Operative clause: "if you can." Neither of those units is going to be on display in any store near me. To compare them hands-on, I would have to order both by mail and ship one back for a refund. To return the more ex- pensive one and keep the less expensive one, yet pay shipping both ways on the one I returned, would total more than ordering and keeping only the more expensive one. So I can't compare them hands-on, and that's why I've turned to MD-L for assistance. | Don't just go on specs or price alone, obviously price is one of the most | important factors, but the device is designed for making sound, so the sound | should also be an important consideration. Oh, I assure you, they will sound the same to my tin ears, so specs and price are, in this situation, the tie-breaking criteria. What are very unequal for me are the power consumption and the weight. | Go to a decent hi-fi store and A-B the two units on the same amp and | speakers ... WHERE? I would have no idea where within a reasonable drive of my home to find a store that would carry both. I doubt that I could find two stores, one that carries each, and get a chance to listen to them on different amps and speakers. If this were Japan, sure, but this is the US, a vast MD desert. | Specs will tell you what features you're buying, ... And my decision has come down to that. | But specs won't tell you how it sounds - maybe the two units have | different D/A converters. Maybe you won't notice a difference ... I guarantee you that I won't notice a difference in sound. At 1/3 more power use, though, I'll notice a difference in my electric bill. At nearly 2 kg more weight, I'll notice a difference in the strain on my back when I move it and on the gravitational stability of my component stack. Richard, there are no stores here where I can compare the two units in real life, and there will be no difference in sound to my tin ears, so this purchase comes down to specs and price. | You don't want to get the cheaper machine and then go to someone's place is | 9 months, hear the 940 in action and cry! Then the 940 owner's unbrushed long-furred cat must have triggered my allergy. If I buy the 640 but the 940 sounds better, I might say "darn." Not even "damn," just "darn" if even that. However, the 940 owner may cry when I tell him/her how much less my 640 weighs and how much less electricity it uses. (The kwh are very expensive here.) The more you try to turn me toward the 940, Richard, the more I lean toward the 640. It must be the way the Cori- olis Effect reverses when one crosses the equator. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MD: JE640 vs. JB940
Hi David, Richard, you and I live in different universes. It's a real shame you can't try them out. Prior to your post I would have thought that New Zealand was about the hardest place in the world to access and try MD items. The JE520 and MZR-55 are still new models here. The MZR-91s have just hit the stores here (in silver only) almost a year after their US release (I believe) and cost NZ$1000 (approx. US$500). You'd be lucky to find a JE 920 here, let alone a 930, and 940s are probably six months to a year off. There are virtually no Sharp or Aiwa products where I live. Generally MD equipment and blanks are hard to come by and universally more expensive than in the US. However, it seems that wherever you live is even less MD saturated, so that's real bad luck. I'm sorry, in my previous post I had no idea where you were from, and in any case would have assumed that price, service and availability wise the US would beat poor old little NZ hands down. Maybe it doesn't. Obviously I have no idea of what stores are like where you live, but I can appreciate your frustration, as MD equipment is hard to get here too. I guess I'm fortunate to know of a couple of stores who will audition equipment. Please be assured my post was not meant to be condescending, nor was I trying to "turn you toward buying the 940", it's not like I'm connected with Sony or anything and I own a 520 myself after all. I was just trying to be helpful - I wouldn't have believed there would be a difference between the CD players I tried sound wise until I actually tried them, so maybe you'd be surprised too, if you had the opportunity. Since you don't, yes you have to go on specs and MD-L experiences, and as a member of MD-L, my (analogous) experience with Sony "Step-up" CDPXE items is a noticeable difference in sound quality. One thing I've noticed in many of the reviews of MD items on the MDCP is that often people overlook mentioning how the MD thing they've bought actually sounds! On weight - you do seem to view the greater weight spec of the 940 as negative, I think weight could be a positive, as it might indicate better build quality (maybe better reliability e.g. the transport, if not sound quality etc). I can see Scale Factor Edit could be useful for adjusting the level of the MDs you record, and the digital filter is a cool whistle, but all in all, if chasing down sound quality isn't an object, sounds like the 640 might be the beast for you. Just trying to be helpful, mate... richard Richard Lang -Original Message- From: David W. Tamkin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, 16 August 2000 11:15 a.m. Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: MD: JE640 vs. JB940 - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: JE640 vs. JB940
On weight - you do seem to view the greater weight spec of the 940 as negative, I think weight could be a positive, as it might indicate better build quality (maybe better reliability e.g. the transport, if not sound quality etc Maybe I'm becoming cynical in my old age but all this 'weight', 'thick power cable' and 'angled circuit boards'/'centre mechanism' stuff that Sony gush out on other products is nothing more than total clap-trap... My JA3-ES boasted a rather heavy weight due to the 'aluminium front panel' boasted by Sony. Big deal - it won't even record in mono mode... GB - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
