Re: [MBZ] Rear quarter window replacement '81 300TD
> I have tried soapy water, silicone grease, light tapping with a rubber > mallet and lots of hand pressure trying to coax this seal into the > channel. > For more hours than I care to admit For general gentle prying I find an old carbon-steel butter knife to be a very handy tool. Thin, strong, and flexible. excellent for tucking and poking, not quite sharp enough to cut if you use care. Otherwise, I have absolutely no clue. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Parts Quality
> Generally the old adage is correct: you get what you pay for. Far more accurate is the converse (inverse?): you don't get what you don't pay for. Subtle but important difference. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Rear quarter window replacement '81 300TD
One more time, hasn't anybody out there done this job before? If anyone out there has done this, I sure would appreciate their comments. I am replacing the glass in the quarter window. There is a large "L" shape metal frame that the window rubber seal needs to be attached to, which in turn is attached to the vehicle by pulling the rubber lip over the edge of the window cut out and then a couple of sheet metal screws hold the whole thing to the body The window rubber seal has a 45 degree angled projection that runs half way around the seal, that needs to be inserted (somehow) into a channel on the metal frame. I have tried soapy water, silicone grease, light tapping with a rubber mallet and lots of hand pressure trying to coax this seal into the channel. For more hours than I care to admit Any ideas from the group will be appreciated. Marshall in Feenix where diesel is now selling for $3.55 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The last real...
I'd have to say the 600, as in the w100. Not that I really like the things, but as far as a vehicle made by Ma Benz up to the standards that were once indicative of what Mercedes-Benz used to be all about, that was it. They built them up to 1981. For mass production, it can vary. I like the w126 quite a bit, but the w111 coupe was really it for me. I will sing praise all day long about w123s, but it is not the same as a w108 or even a w110 was. The mass production feel was well in place by then. Still far less cookie cutter than say a w210. However, for simplicity, reliability, and overall best car ever made for the purpose of reliable transport, no thrills, I think the w123 diesels with manual trans, Euro issue, would take it. Now which motor, that is a discussion for the ages. Current Stable, not counting the parts cars or the junk boxes, these are all drivers: '61 Unimog 404s '67 250s '70 280sl '71 280se 5 speed '78 280slc '82 280te '84 500sel AMG (not just a body kit) '85 500sel Euro w/ full hydromat '86 190e 2.3-16 '90 300se (For Sale) I miss having a 240d around. Mathieu > ---Original Message--- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [MBZ] The last real... > Sent: 11 Nov '07 04:20 > > This same subject has come up before on various MB lists (seen 'em all) and I > would suggest that unless the posts in response show the poster's current MB > model, the answer isn't worth much. Not to suggest that prejudice is a factor > or anything like that. > > Usually seems to be the same model presently owned, oddly. > > As for mine: > > 72 115 > 73 116 > 78 123 > 85 201 > 89 201 > 95 202 > 01 203 > 08 204 > > You figure it out. > > RLE ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The last real...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > 72 115 > 73 116 > 78 123 > 85 201 > 89 201 > 95 202 > 01 203 > 08 204 > > You figure it out. I figure you're one of those daredevil rich guys. I did get to check out the new C at the dealer the other day; it looks like a pretty nice piece of kit. Until some jackass set off the alarm in one and I was suddenly nauseous. Tom 76 450SEL 82 300D 98 S420 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Parts Quality
Hi Gary, I'm looking at an ignition switch - pn M5050-29216 ($49) Brand not stated, Vs. M5050-29216 ($55) APA Brand. I ordered the less expensive - didn't recognize either manufacturer - Now that I've order the less expensive part, please tell me it doesn't matter in this case ;-) This is for my 74 911 BTW - but I often see more than one price when getting MB parts ;-) Thx - Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: "Gary Hurst" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 12:03 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Parts Quality > it really needs to be taken on a case by case basis. the most expensive > one > is not always the right answer, but generally if one costs a quarter the > price of another, i'd beware the cheapie > > like everyone else, worldpac is adding more and more junk by the day. > stick > with what you know and ask if you don't know. > > On Nov 10, 2007 11:31 PM, LarryT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Rusty, >>When browsing the parts catalog I often see several parts that are the >> same but made by different manufacturers. Do you do any research on the >> alternative parts to make sure the quality is the same? I see the price >> is >> dramatically different in some cases - just wondering how much I should >> let >> the price determine my choice when placing an order. >> >> Thanks!! >> Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) >> www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts >> Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil >> PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net >> Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs >> . >> >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ >> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.28/1122 - Release Date: > 11/10/2007 10:41 AM > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] What was the last real Mercedes?
Peter Frederick wrote: > First few years were super high quality, even double pane glass in the > windows. Later ones had lesser materials in the interior, etc to keep > production cost down. First four years, maybe? I dunno, I can't find many instances of this between my '98 and the '95 that is still hanging around. Double pane glass stayed throughout the model run and the reversing posts were useless. There were more options and less standard equipment on the 3.2 and 4.2 models after a few years as they just weren't price competitive. If anything, I think they got better. Later models don't have wiring harness problems, and have much more reliable (if perhaps not "fixed") evaporator cores and M104 head gaskets. Simpler climate control controls, side-impact airbags, and a host of little things like an improved center console design and nicer materials covering the A-pillars and front headliner. Plus the cumulative effect of a "broken-in" manufacturing process later in the range. When I was shopping recently, I didn't even consider anything earlier than a '97. I just poked around the EPC there's generally only one part number listed for the entire run on things like interior materials and insulation and such. The early models were more powerful, though; they were all detuned for emissions in '94. Tom ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Parts Quality
Generally the old adage is correct: you get what you pay for. Mathieu > ---Original Message--- > From: LarryT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [MBZ] Parts Quality > Sent: 11 Nov '07 04:31 > > Rusty, > When browsing the parts catalog I often see several parts that are the > same but made by different manufacturers. Do you do any research on the > alternative parts to make sure the quality is the same? I see the price is > dramatically different in some cases - just wondering how much I should let > the price determine my choice when placing an order. > > Thanks!! > Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) > www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts > Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil > PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net > Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs > . > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Vacuum leaks 1980 300D
I must have missed the PDF somewhere among the threads. :) __ From: Douglas Sherman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List To: Mercedes List Subject: [MBZ] Vacuum leaks 1980 300D Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 20:33:27 -0800 (PST) >Thanks all I have a mity vac and will print the pdf that Scott sent :) and work on it this week I really do not want to pay for a smoke machine. Though the wife gave the go ahead! > > Thanks again all > > Douglas >___ >http://www.okiebenz.com >For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ >For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Parts Quality
it really needs to be taken on a case by case basis. the most expensive one is not always the right answer, but generally if one costs a quarter the price of another, i'd beware the cheapie like everyone else, worldpac is adding more and more junk by the day. stick with what you know and ask if you don't know. On Nov 10, 2007 11:31 PM, LarryT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Rusty, >When browsing the parts catalog I often see several parts that are the > same but made by different manufacturers. Do you do any research on the > alternative parts to make sure the quality is the same? I see the price > is > dramatically different in some cases - just wondering how much I should > let > the price determine my choice when placing an order. > > Thanks!! > Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) > www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts > Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil > PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net > Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs > . > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Quality
they make a lot of very low quality ones in california, actually. On Nov 10, 2007 11:37 PM, LarryT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > you wrote <> > > Those that are made here are considered high quality - > > Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) > www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts > Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil > PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net > Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs > . > > - Original Message - > From: "Gary Hurst" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Mercedes Discussion List" > Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 11:02 PM > Subject: Re: [MBZ] Quality > > > > some guns are still made here. not many > > > > On Nov 10, 2007 8:14 PM, Rick Knoble <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> > It's going to be too expensive to ship even cheap shoddy junk from > >> > China > >> to > >> > the US to compete with US manufactured goods. > >> > > >> > Peter > >> > >> Other than automobiles, is anything manufactured in the US anymore? > >> > >> Rick Knoble > >> '85 300 CD > >> '87 190 DT > >> > >> ___ > >> http://www.okiebenz.com > >> For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > >> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > >> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > >> > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.28/1122 - Release Date: > > 11/10/2007 10:41 AM > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The last real...
72 108 4.5L 72 220 D 87 300D 88 300TE 86 300 SDL (brother's) 87 300E (brother's) 75 300D (brother's). The last good Volvo was the 740/760 940/960 -- run forever, safe, drive nicely, no major problems. My neighbors traded their 240 wagon (at 300,000 miles) on an 850 -- sold it in less than a year, was in the shop all the time. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] What was the last real Mercedes?
Steve MacSween wrote: > Does your definition of onerous extend to parts prices? Sort of. A 140 is certainly more complex and sophisticated than a 123, so it goes without saying that parts are overall more expensive, but I haven't found them to be prohibitively so. There's just more "car" in a 140. But it is just so smooth and quiet and comfortable that a bump in cost is easy to justify. Tom ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Vacuum leaks 1980 300D
Thanks all I have a mity vac and will print the pdf that Scott sent :) and work on it this week I really do not want to pay for a smoke machine. Though the wife gave the go ahead! Thanks again all Douglas ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Quality
you wrote <> Those that are made here are considered high quality - Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: "Gary Hurst" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 11:02 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Quality > some guns are still made here. not many > > On Nov 10, 2007 8:14 PM, Rick Knoble <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > It's going to be too expensive to ship even cheap shoddy junk from >> > China >> to >> > the US to compete with US manufactured goods. >> > >> > Peter >> >> Other than automobiles, is anything manufactured in the US anymore? >> >> Rick Knoble >> '85 300 CD >> '87 190 DT >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ >> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.28/1122 - Release Date: > 11/10/2007 10:41 AM > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The last real...
Mine: '68 108 '72 115 '77 123 '81 123 '86 201 123's win...just barely. Bob R. '77 300D 184K currently -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 9:21 PM To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] The last real... This same subject has come up before on various MB lists (seen 'em all) and I would suggest that unless the posts in response show the poster's current MB model, the answer isn't worth much. Not to suggest that prejudice is a factor or anything like that. Usually seems to be the same model presently owned, oddly. As for mine: 72 115 73 116 78 123 85 201 89 201 95 202 01 203 08 204 You figure it out. RLE ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Parts Quality
Rusty, When browsing the parts catalog I often see several parts that are the same but made by different manufacturers. Do you do any research on the alternative parts to make sure the quality is the same? I see the price is dramatically different in some cases - just wondering how much I should let the price determine my choice when placing an order. Thanks!! Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 2.5 turbo IP
15 ATDC, not BTDC. The actual injection starts at 24 or 26 BTDC, just like the older injection pumps, but the nipple on the governor drive were the locking tool fits lines up with the tool at 15 ATDC. Make sure the pump is NOT 180 degrees out -- they will actually run that way (fuel sprayed in at TDC on the intake stroke), but not very well, lots of noise and smoke with very little power. Sorta like serious spark knock, as it ignites too early. This is a known problem on older pumps, for a period the markings on the spline were off backwards on some pumps. Should only lock properly at one position, but I suspect you can screw the tool in and hold it on the back side of the governor drive, too (no "nipple" but pressure will hold it). Otherwise, check to make sure the pump fit in corectly and that the injection timer is set properly. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The last real...
This same subject has come up before on various MB lists (seen 'em all) and I would suggest that unless the posts in response show the poster's current MB model, the answer isn't worth much. Not to suggest that prejudice is a factor or anything like that. Usually seems to be the same model presently owned, oddly. As for mine: 72 115 73 116 78 123 85 201 89 201 95 202 01 203 08 204 You figure it out. RLE ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Quality
some guns are still made here. not many On Nov 10, 2007 8:14 PM, Rick Knoble <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > It's going to be too expensive to ship even cheap shoddy junk from China > to > > the US to compete with US manufactured goods. > > > > Peter > > Other than automobiles, is anything manufactured in the US anymore? > > Rick Knoble > '85 300 CD > '87 190 DT > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Quality
i already have an F. how decent a deal? any interest in old watches? email me off list so no one starts crying On Nov 10, 2007 5:39 PM, OK Don <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You get what you pay for. The equivalent glass from Nikon is about the > same price. I cant make you a decent deal on a M4-2 with a lens or two > if you're interested. Or even a '68 Nikon F for that matter. > > On Nov 10, 2007 4:18 PM, Gary Hurst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > i've never messed with leicas because the glass is just too expensive. > i've > > never messed with hasselblad either for the very same reason. > > > > > -- > OK Don, KD5NRO > Norman, OK > "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." > -Benjamin Disraeli > '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 2.5 turbo IP
Its loud and smoky, before its was quiet and smooth. As I mentioned it is missing, I loosened each line and I was not really able to say it was coming from any certain cylinder, so thats why Im thinking the timing has to be off. I did have it locked with the tool, and the engine sitting at 15( think its 15). Peter Frederick wrote: > I don't see why not, they are adjusted that way with the electronic > tool! > > Lots of noise or very quiet and smoky? If you run it til it warms up, > late timing will give you excessive smoke at high speeds but quiet > idle, too fast will give you excessive idle noise warm and smoke at low > speeds, typically. > > Peter > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 94 E320, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] What was the last real Mercedes?
I will trade you a 126 for your 140 if you want Walt Lasher wrote: > I would have to go with the W126 > > Walt Lasher > '92 S350 > Seattle > > -- next part -- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: winmail.dat > Type: application/ms-tnef > Size: 2804 bytes > Desc: not available > Url : > http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20071110/a808da1a/attachment.bin > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 94 E320, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 2.5 turbo IP
I don't see why not, they are adjusted that way with the electronic tool! Lots of noise or very quiet and smoky? If you run it til it warms up, late timing will give you excessive smoke at high speeds but quiet idle, too fast will give you excessive idle noise warm and smoke at low speeds, typically. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] 190D
Well I started that 190D I picked up with the supposed bad transmission. After manually moving the shift leaver to park it fired right up with the key. Runs fine. I discovered the reason the tranny is bad is because there is no flex disk. I dont know what happened to it. Its gone, the bolts are bent and really screwed up. Assuming maybe it broke apart and fell out? That must have also knocked the shifter loose because the rod is somewhat bent. It appears the tranny is probably fine, with it jacked up, put it in gear manually via the rod under the car and it starts spinning, kicked into gear. Just need to install a flex disk and hook linkage back up and see what happens. I was surprised to see even the belly pans were still in place. -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 94 E320, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] 2.5 turbo IP
Well got that rebuilt IP installed, and it fired right up. It is however missing and I have too much smoke (blue/grey) Was idling perfect with the old pump and no smoke. Im going to assume its not timed exactly spot on. Can I loosen the the bolts and adjust the pump a little while its running to see if it will smooth out? I do not have the proper timing tool deal. -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 94 E320, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Quality
Well, quite a bit by Toyota Peter On Nov 10, 2007, at 7:25 PM, OK Don wrote: > For that matter - what percentage of an American automobile is > manufactured here? > >> Other than automobiles, is anything manufactured in the US anymore? >> >> Rick Knoble >> '85 300 CD >> '87 190 DT > > -- > OK Don, KD5NRO > Norman, OK > "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." > -Benjamin Disraeli > '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Quality
For that matter - what percentage of an American automobile is manufactured here? > Other than automobiles, is anything manufactured in the US anymore? > > Rick Knoble > '85 300 CD > '87 190 DT -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." -Benjamin Disraeli '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] What was the last real Mercedes?
126 and the 108 /109 were excellent too . mak - Original Message - From: "Walt Lasher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes List" Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 4:04 AM Subject: [MBZ] What was the last real Mercedes? >I would have to go with the W126 > > Walt Lasher > '92 S350 > Seattle > > -- next part -- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: winmail.dat > Type: application/ms-tnef > Size: 2804 bytes > Desc: not available > Url : > http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20071110/a808da1a/attachment.bin > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.486 / Virus Database: 269.15.23/1114 - Release Date: > 11/6/2007 8:05 PM > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Quality
> It's going to be too expensive to ship even cheap shoddy junk from China to > the US to compete with US manufactured goods. > > Peter Other than automobiles, is anything manufactured in the US anymore? Rick Knoble '85 300 CD '87 190 DT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] What was the last real Mercedes?
W107 Chassis. From the W123 chassis on they are assembly line cars, due to the higher production numbers. Not much difference, really, except that parts are more standardized on the later models (less of the three non-interchangeable ones that only fix certain chassis numbers, like neutral safety switches). Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Quality
Speaking of Leica's -- I have a Leica my Dad bought in the early 50s. He sold many of the extra lens' he bought (darn it) but I got the camera and bag with several filters, meter and other things. It takes amazing photos - but focusing it is a learned art form. Getting the 2 images to merge takes practice. Anyone who has never used a camera where all settings are controlled by the operator who no doubt be frustrated until they saw how much control is available when doing everything yourself. BTW, I have 3 Minoltas from the 70s and 80s - not one works as it should - while the Leica snaps perfectly everytime - and it has Zero plastic on it. The Minolta's will require someone with electronic test equipment to fix - and I'd bet eventually some of the parts will one day not be available - if something fails on the Leica any part can be machined. Later -- Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: "OK Don" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 4:40 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Quality > Yes - until you used a Leica -- and Leica is still producing those > cameras, and Nikon ceded the 35mm rangefinder market to Leica. Nikon > embraced the professional 35mm SLR market while Leica didn't build one > suited to the full range Pro, hence they ceded the SLR market to > Nikon. Note that these two brands are the only ones were you can use > lenses from the 50's on your new digital camera, and in Leica, that > goes back to the 30's! > > On Nov 10, 2007 2:47 PM, Gary Hurst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> those nikon cameras of the 60s, man, so sweet. >> >> > -- > OK Don, KD5NRO > Norman, OK > "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." > -Benjamin Disraeli > '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.28/1122 - Release Date: > 11/10/2007 10:41 AM > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] What was the last real Mercedes?
Hmnnh, guess no one came up with the right answer. Ahh well what can I expect :-) Anyway just to finish this thread up with a definitive answer I shall tell you. The last real Mercedes (when you take into consideration all relevant criteria) is the seven seater 124 T. That's right you all say as you bang your palm on your forehead. All the Merc goodies and the ability to carry seven people and half a ton on the roof. Lets see your poxy 126 do that. OK you can carry seven people with two in the boot and sure you can put roof racks on the 126 but Hendrik who is patiently waiting for the 124 T to come down in price Walt Lasher wrote: > I would have to go with the W126 > > Walt Lasher > '92 S350 > Seattle > > > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] What was the last real Mercedes?
SO, which Mercedes model was the last one with some hand fitting of components? I've heard a claim that it was the 560SEC, and I've heard someone else claim that it was the SLC -- Anyone have other opinions, or even facts to back them up? Does anyone care? > Again - Watching old video of the Porsche assy lines in the 50s compared to > the lines of today and the so-called "Hand Built" Porsches are called such > with a wink. Sure, they are more "Hands-On" that your typical CHevy but new > ones could never be called Hand-Built in the tradition of the 356s. > > As someone once said, "It's all relative." -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." -Benjamin Disraeli '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] WTF?
More than the efficiency losses in the generation of the hydrogen that is --- > > Unless the hydrogen tends to enhance the burning of the diesel, as propane > is reputed to do. > > Mitch -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." -Benjamin Disraeli '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Vacuum leaks 1980 300D/tools needed
You must buy a Vacuum Tester to have any hope of repairing the vacuum system. They are from $20 to $100 and up - some plastic, some metal - some with accessories some without. They are available at Walmart, Sears, K Mart, etc. Many places sell them -- even eBay. Then it's a matter of using logic to decide where to start. LR door doesn;t lock? remove the door panel and pull the hoses from the element. Use the vacuum Tester to see if it locks or unlocks the door - one hose locks and 1 hose unlocks. You probably have a bad element somewhere - the rubber diaphragms are damaged moe often than the rubber or plastic hoses. The element diaphrams get torn and leak. Good luck- Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 3:23 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Vacuum leaks 1980 300D/tools needed > > In a message dated 11/9/2007 8:53:33 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > Alright I have the climate control working now. Though I have a need to > repair the vacuum leaks that are present in the car I know that both the > door > system and the climate leaks. > > What do all you do instead of a smoke machine to find these leaks? I find > it > difficult to just "Try" different spots. > > > > Douglas, > > Two known best spots to check are the master valve in the driver's door, > which will leak a LOT of vacuum, Only replace with Bosch, the substitute > will > leak again in months to a couple years at most. The other place is at > the Y > in the trunk, near the fuel tank cover. Easy to get to and the fuel tank > cover lock is a frequent failure point, I think due to the higher heat > exposure > in that location. You can also check the trunk lock actuator from the > same > point and it also fails more quickly due to the heat exposure. > > Of course, the myriad of tees and check valve fittings right near the > brake > booster merit close visual inspection. > > If you don't have a vacuum tester by now, they are again on sale at Harbor > Freight, a metal bodied one for $18.99, made by General. Punch up part > # > 92474. > > Something else on sale that everyone should have is the fuel injection > pressure tester at only $9.99! part # 92699. If you only use it to > verify your > oil pressure sender accuracy (it comes with a lot of adapters and a > 100PSI > gauge), you will have paid for it nicely. > > Regards, > > Jim Friesen > Phoenix AZ > 79 300SD, 264 K miles > 98 ML 320, 152 K miles > > > > ** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.28/1122 - Release Date: > 11/10/2007 10:41 AM > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Quality
Its' true that the market for a serious RF camera is very limited - but it does have it's niche, though a small one. The range/view finder in the Leica M series is just really hard a the others to match - it's one of the reasons they succeeded. I've not found the repair costs to be much different between the Leica M bodies and the Nikon SLRs. Remember the motors for the F body - had to be hand matched to the body? Granted - Leitz didn't have a motor for an SLR at that time. My Leicaflex SL was trouble free. The shutter was dead on for the 8 years or so that I had it. However, the Nikon bodies far better met my needs for an SLR - interchangable finders being one of the main reasons. It's still hard to beat a Leica M series with fast wide angle lenses for journalism. It's the only film camera I still use - though I'm not "in the business" anymore. All that having been said, there's a LOT of personal preference in how the camera feels in your hand that determines which brand you buy. -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." -Benjamin Disraeli '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] What was the last real Mercedes?
When this thread started my 1st response, without giving it any thought at all, was the W108 is all it's variants - incl the 109 and 111. Especially the late production 280SEL with the 6 cyl FI engine although the 4.5 V8 is very high on the list. Then, I started thinking about my 123 and 124 (I've been lucky enough to have one of each) - both are amazing cars with few quality problems. Not many -- Of course, we're comparing gas to diesels - I'd like to try a new S class - as T Hargrave suggested - I'll bet it's awesome. But I wouldn't want to have to pay for its maintanence after it's 5 or 10 years old - which is my yardstick for labelling something "Great" in terms of something I might buy. As for as everyone complaining whenever a new model comes out - I think that behaviour is universal - When the Porsche 911 was introduced in 1963 the 356 group said they were "Real" Porsches, same thing happened again and agin as new series were introduced. And when, God,forbid, a front engine potential 911 replacement should come out, stand back and watch the arrows fly. IMHO, MB is growing with the industry - changing to stay competitive. Again - Watching old video of the Porsche assy lines in the 50s compared to the lines of today and the so-called "Hand Built" Porsches are called such with a wink. Sure, they are more "Hands-On" that your typical CHevy but new ones could never be called Hand-Built in the tradition of the 356s. As someone once said, "It's all relative." Later -- Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: "Tom Hargrave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] What was the last real Mercedes? > The last real Mercedes is still being built today. Go to the dealership > & test drive a new S class and you will understand why. > > I little trivia that I've told to the list several times: > > I remember when I was a kid in Germany and the new square line came out. > That's the 114 / 115 body for those who don't know. > > My parents & their friends were all complaining "it's not a real > Mercedes", "it doesn't have the Mercedes grill", "it will never sell", > "they are cheap Mercedes imitations", "the quality isn't the same", etc, > etc, etc. And some swore to never buy a Mercedes again - they did. > > Then the replacement for the 108 / 109 body came out in 1972 and guess > what? It was the same complaints all over again. > > Don't we all collect, restore & drive these "Mercedes classics" today? > > Tom > www.kegkits.com > > Original Message > From: Trampas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: 11/10/07 01:58 PM > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Subject: Re: [MBZ] What was the last real Mercedes? > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > 126 > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of Kaleb C. Striplin > Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 1:39 PM > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Subject: Re: [MBZ] What was the last real Mercedes? > > 140 > > Steve MacSween wrote: >> This is based on price/quality accordance overall, suitability for > DIY, > and >> parts prices. >> >> I vote w124. >> >> Flames off list pls. >> >> Mac >> >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ >> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > > -- > Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK > 94 E420, 94 E320, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, > 91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, > 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 > http://www.okiebenz.com > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checke
Re: [MBZ] WTF?
Tom Hargrave wrote: > Last I checked there was no such thing as a prepetual motion machine and > his hydro-conversion is a farce. Unless the hydrogen tends to enhance the burning of the diesel, as propane is reputed to do. Mitch ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Last real Mercedes
'91 126 Wilton ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Quality
Yes, but the market for ANY rangefinder camera is seriously limited by the lack of TTL viewing and metering. They didn't "cede" the market, they (and Ziess, Voigtlander, Braun, etc) croaked due to inability to produce a quality machine at a reasonable price. Leica SLRs (and Rolliflex, too, and Voiglander) were NOT reliable, I've owned a couple. Horrible. Beautifully made, but they don't work. I have an old Nikormatt with a huge dent in the prism housing that works perfectly, even with a cracked pentaprism. Leica are not mass produced, they are HAND MADE, and suffer from the problems associated with that, particularly very expensive repair as parts must be adjusted to fit. Superb cameras, don't get me wrong, but hand made for the very top of the market, not even serious professionals in many cases. And the Nikon S rangefinders were every bit as good, so are the lenses. Just not economical to make. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] What was the last real Mercedes?
I would have to go with the W126 Walt Lasher '92 S350 Seattle -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2804 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20071110/a808da1a/attachment.bin ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] WTF?
The car may be over priced but you'll love his home page. http://www.greenbenz.com/ Regarding his hydro-conversion system. He's taking energy from the alternator to break down water into hydrogen & oxygen then he's feeding hydrogen & oxygen into the engine to create power. Sounds great, right? But wait - he has to use that power plus more to drive the alternator that he uses to generate the electricty that he uses to break the water down into hydrogen and oxygen! Last I checked there was no such thing as a prepetual motion machine and his hydro-conversion is a farce. Tom www.kegkits.com Original Message From: David Hemsley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: 11/10/07 04:13 PM To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] WTF? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= I am quite a bit more than slightly confused by this. In producing bikodiesel I stress removing every bit of water I possibly can prior to putting the fuel in my vehicle's tank. Now, am I to understand that somethig to do with adding water increases the gas mileage? How about corrosion, injector debris from the chemiclas in water, etc? Dave H... __ From: Rich Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] WTF? Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 13:05:43 -0600 >That's a turbohydrodiesel, makes fuel from water to give excellent >mileage on whatever is put into it. I'm guessing he has a magnetic flux >inducer on the fuel line, and a Tornado turbulator on the air intake >too. There might even be a spare tank somewhere to collect the fuel it >generates as it is driven. > >You would think he would have vacuumed up the gum wrappers before he >took the nice photos? > >--R > >Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: > > http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320180758015&ssPageNam e= ADME:B:SS:CA:1123 > > > >___ >http://www.okiebenz.com >For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ >For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Quality
You get what you pay for. The equivalent glass from Nikon is about the same price. I cant make you a decent deal on a M4-2 with a lens or two if you're interested. Or even a '68 Nikon F for that matter. On Nov 10, 2007 4:18 PM, Gary Hurst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > i've never messed with leicas because the glass is just too expensive. i've > never messed with hasselblad either for the very same reason. > > -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." -Benjamin Disraeli '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Quality
i've never messed with leicas because the glass is just too expensive. i've never messed with hasselblad either for the very same reason. On Nov 10, 2007 4:40 PM, OK Don <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yes - until you used a Leica -- and Leica is still producing those > cameras, and Nikon ceded the 35mm rangefinder market to Leica. Nikon > embraced the professional 35mm SLR market while Leica didn't build one > suited to the full range Pro, hence they ceded the SLR market to > Nikon. Note that these two brands are the only ones were you can use > lenses from the 50's on your new digital camera, and in Leica, that > goes back to the 30's! > > On Nov 10, 2007 2:47 PM, Gary Hurst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > those nikon cameras of the 60s, man, so sweet. > > > > > -- > OK Don, KD5NRO > Norman, OK > "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." > -Benjamin Disraeli > '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] WTF?
I am quite a bit more than slightly confused by this. In producing bikodiesel I stress removing every bit of water I possibly can prior to putting the fuel in my vehicle's tank. Now, am I to understand that somethig to do with adding water increases the gas mileage? How about corrosion, injector debris from the chemiclas in water, etc? Dave H... __ From: Rich Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] WTF? Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 13:05:43 -0600 >That's a turbohydrodiesel, makes fuel from water to give excellent >mileage on whatever is put into it. I'm guessing he has a magnetic flux >inducer on the fuel line, and a Tornado turbulator on the air intake >too. There might even be a spare tank somewhere to collect the fuel it >generates as it is driven. > >You would think he would have vacuumed up the gum wrappers before he >took the nice photos? > >--R > >Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: > > http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320180758015&ssPageName= ADME:B:SS:CA:1123 > > > >___ >http://www.okiebenz.com >For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ >For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Quality
Yes - until you used a Leica -- and Leica is still producing those cameras, and Nikon ceded the 35mm rangefinder market to Leica. Nikon embraced the professional 35mm SLR market while Leica didn't build one suited to the full range Pro, hence they ceded the SLR market to Nikon. Note that these two brands are the only ones were you can use lenses from the 50's on your new digital camera, and in Leica, that goes back to the 30's! On Nov 10, 2007 2:47 PM, Gary Hurst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > those nikon cameras of the 60s, man, so sweet. > > -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." -Benjamin Disraeli '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] What was the last real Mercedes?
I think the pricing on w140 is undervalued because of the stigma of concern about repairs. This may result in great deals if you can find one that has the following fixed engine wiring harness evaporator vacuum pump lurking transmission issues beware of the sealed no fluid change ones. for the 3 litre head gasket for the diesel The factory rebuild engine was installed when? for the v12 throttle actuators, but if you buy one of these add 10K to any estimate for repairs. On Nov 10, 2007, at 10:48 AM, Steve MacSween wrote: > on 11/10/07 13:14, Peter Frederick at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> First run of W140s, except the electronics. > > Can you define 'first run' for me (I was off the list for quite a > while and > the 140 talk seems to have gained momentum in that time) > > This talk of 140s has me drooling. Always liked the look, but heard > nothing > but 'run away, run away'. Some deals floating about in the area > now. No one > buys them here. Local wholesaler has had one in his driveway for 18 > months. > > I have heard good things about the lower-spec ones they sold in > Europe. > > Mac John 1983 300TDt 384k Kilometers (mobil 1 Delvac) 1990's 300TDt 211k Kilometers (mobil 1 Delvac) 1993 500SEL 200k Kilometers (mobil 1 Delvac) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] What was the last real Mercedes?
The last "real" mercedes still being made today, if you want to be a purist, is the G-wagen. Dimitri Tom Hargrave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The last real Mercedes is still being built today. Go to the dealership & test drive a new S class and you will understand why. I little trivia that I've told to the list several times: I remember when I was a kid in Germany and the new square line came out. That's the 114 / 115 body for those who don't know. My parents & their friends were all complaining "it's not a real Mercedes", "it doesn't have the Mercedes grill", "it will never sell", "they are cheap Mercedes imitations", "the quality isn't the same", etc, etc, etc. And some swore to never buy a Mercedes again - they did. Then the replacement for the 108 / 109 body came out in 1972 and guess what? It was the same complaints all over again. Don't we all collect, restore & drive these "Mercedes classics" today? Tom www.kegkits.com Original Message From: Trampas Sent: 11/10/07 01:58 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] What was the last real Mercedes? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 126 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kaleb C. Striplin Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 1:39 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] What was the last real Mercedes? 140 Steve MacSween wrote: > This is based on price/quality accordance overall, suitability for DIY, and > parts prices. > > I vote w124. > > Flames off list pls. > > Mac > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 94 E320, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Quality
Peter, I disagree with the automotive plant statement. My Wife works for Chrysler and I have been in several of their facilities. All have been spotlessly clean and all are using modern manufacturing methods, including extensive use of automation & robots to manufacture their product. Quality is also taken very seriously, to the point where if a quality issue from a supplier impacts the line the entire cost of the impact is pushed back to the supplier. Also, an operator, anu operator has the ability to shut down the line for a quality issue and whan this happens, Engineering immediately reacts to find root cause for the problem.A line shutdown can easily cost a supplier $100,000 or more in penatlies. This makes the supplier base very quality oriented. The major issue with the American automotive industry is two fold. The first is the cost of healthcare. In most other countries, the healthcare burden is picked up by the government, that is if there is any healthcare at all. Here in the States, the burden is picked up by the Employer, Emplyee or both. The cost of healthcare ads about $2,000 to the bottom line of any car that's produced by a US manufacturer in the US. The impact is much less for Toyota and Honda because they push most of the healthcare burden onto the Employee. Also, neither company has been manufacturing in this country long enough to have the retiree base that the 3 American manufacturers have. The second is precieved quality. Chrysler enjoyed a long relationship with Mitsubishi, were the exact same cars (Dodge Stealth & Mitsu 3000 GT, for example) were built on the same assembly line by the same people & from the same parts. They just wear different trim. But the Mitsubishi cars always got better reviews and had less "quality problems" than the Dodge cars. Why? Because the buying public believed that they were buying better cars! The same trend happened with GM's partnership with Toyota and Ford's partnership with Nissan. Tom www.kegkits.com Original Message From: Peter Frederick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: 11/10/07 01:40 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Quality -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= There is no doubt that Asian manufacturers can make high quality precision goods. Nikon essentially single handedly buried the German camera industry in the 50' and 60's by doing just that. They bought the idea of precision made parts (rather than hand fitted parts) to the camera industry -- any particular part would work properly with no filling, bending, machining, or adjusting in any other set of parts -- precision parts need only be assembled, not hand fitted. US manufacturers are about the same as the old German ones -- too many of the people I have met in management are in the sole business of attempting to pinch pennies until they reproduce -- we now no longer make steel because the steel industry never upgraded their production facilities, and persisted in using the most inefficient and man hour intensive methods possible to "save money". Our automotive plants are ancient (and filthy dirty) where brute human muscle is used instead of automated machinery, quality control doesn't extend to MAKING good parts, etc. However, theie is, for all intents and purposes, no bottom in the swamp of Asian cheap goods, and there is always someone who will put the appropriate sticker on shoddy or simply incorrect goods and sell them to you as genuine. This is a traditional business practice in the East, not a new phenomenon, and if you want quality, YOU have to make sure it's actually there! Cheap oil, greedy businesses, and penny pinching/pound foolish consumers have brought us to where we are. I suspect the high and rising cost of oil will force some adjustments, fairly rapidly. It's going to be too expensive to ship even cheap shoddy junk from China to the US to compete with US manufactured goods. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Quality
those nikon cameras of the 60s, man, so sweet. On Nov 10, 2007 2:34 PM, Peter Frederick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > There is no doubt that Asian manufacturers can make high quality > precision goods. Nikon essentially single handedly buried the German > camera industry in the 50' and 60's by doing just that. They bought > the idea of precision made parts (rather than hand fitted parts) to the > camera industry -- any particular part would work properly with no > filling, bending, machining, or adjusting in any other set of parts -- > precision parts need only be assembled, not hand fitted. > > US manufacturers are about the same as the old German ones -- too many > of the people I have met in management are in the sole business of > attempting to pinch pennies until they reproduce -- we now no longer > make steel because the steel industry never upgraded their production > facilities, and persisted in using the most inefficient and man hour > intensive methods possible to "save money". Our automotive plants are > ancient (and filthy dirty) where brute human muscle is used instead of > automated machinery, quality control doesn't extend to MAKING good > parts, etc. > > However, theie is, for all intents and purposes, no bottom in the swamp > of Asian cheap goods, and there is always someone who will put the > appropriate sticker on shoddy or simply incorrect goods and sell them > to you as genuine. This is a traditional business practice in the > East, not a new phenomenon, and if you want quality, YOU have to make > sure it's actually there! > > Cheap oil, greedy businesses, and penny pinching/pound foolish > consumers have brought us to where we are. I suspect the high and > rising cost of oil will force some adjustments, fairly rapidly. It's > going to be too expensive to ship even cheap shoddy junk from China to > the US to compete with US manufactured goods. > > Peter > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Bosch Nozzles
Hi Steve, Interesting post - well thought out and filled with truths. You said of MB <> Any idea *where* those clients are going? Lexus? Infiniti? Rolls? If guessing I'd say Lex or Infini - mostly because only very rich will want to be seen driving a RR (IMHO of course) because of the "Rah, Rah, Here I come" aura that goes with RR ownership. Also, is it my imagination or do the values of RR fall pretty quickly? One other point of reference re the Japanese - when Porsche fell to the bottom in sales (less than 1000 cars sold in 92 or 93 - from memory - sorry if that's wrong - they called the Japanese effieciency experts to evaluate the Porsche operation and make recommendations. Initially Porsche had layoffs, but within a couple of years, the rehire was complete and additional 1000s were hired thanks to the very high numbers of Porsches sold worldwide. One other country that hopes to start selling cars here is the Chinese - given the success of Kia and Hyunda, etc I expect the Chinese to come to the table well prepared. I try to avoid buying products made in China (don't like their politics or practices) but it's gettiing near impossible. later - Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: "Steve MacSween" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 11:32 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bosch Nozzles > on 11/10/07 11:05, Gary Hurst at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> the deal with the chinese is that they can make any quality you would >> like >> and are willing to pay for cheaper than anyone else can. if you want >> good, >> they can make good. i am told that the chinese make absolutely top >> quality >> violins, selling for half the cost of a comparable european violin. i am >> told that the same situation exists with regards to furniture. > > We have to deal with the Asians. We also have to define powerfully as > consumers what we choose to deal with them for. > > People seem to have forgotten that in the lifetime of many people here (I > am > 48), "Made in Japan" has gone from a schoolyard taunt used to insult the > possessions of another (your new bike's made in Japan, it's a piece of > ___"), to an almost universal assurance of functionality and durability. > > Remember we made stereos, televisions and small appliances in North > America? > > The Asians have an ability to rethink, regroup and remake themselves that > is > unmatched. Did you know that the first Subarus ever imported to California > were literally pulled off the lots and junked because of their abysmal > build > quality and coke-can sheetmetal? A decade or so later they had a cult > following in the northeast U.S. > > The Koreans and the Chinese are learning even faster than the Japanese > ever > did, and they have CPU power to leverage their grey matter even more. Just > look at the rise of Kia in consumer ratings, crash tests and post-purchase > quality surveys. > > In the automotive field the Europeans are a spent force, in terms of what > gets sent here. They have completely lost sight of the price/quality > balance > scorecard. I know people who work in the dealer/service end of both VW and > Mercedes, and they are the first to admit that the products no longer > satisfy the purchasers as they once did. > > However, my take is that Mercedes is following Volvo's (lead with its > crappy > 93-on FWD cars) and expanding its market base by broadening its appeal to > bring fresh, younger, upwardly-mobile meat into the showrooms to replace > the > traditional clients who are slipping away. Volvo has saved its bacon with > this, but I'm not certain it will work over the long run for Benz as it > has > a bigger reputation and heritage to live up to. > > Mac > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.28/1122 - Release Date: > 11/10/2007 10:41 AM > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Vacuum leaks 1980 300D/tools needed
In a message dated 11/9/2007 8:53:33 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Alright I have the climate control working now. Though I have a need to repair the vacuum leaks that are present in the car I know that both the door system and the climate leaks. What do all you do instead of a smoke machine to find these leaks? I find it difficult to just "Try" different spots. Douglas, Two known best spots to check are the master valve in the driver's door, which will leak a LOT of vacuum, Only replace with Bosch, the substitute will leak again in months to a couple years at most. The other place is at the Y in the trunk, near the fuel tank cover. Easy to get to and the fuel tank cover lock is a frequent failure point, I think due to the higher heat exposure in that location. You can also check the trunk lock actuator from the same point and it also fails more quickly due to the heat exposure. Of course, the myriad of tees and check valve fittings right near the brake booster merit close visual inspection. If you don't have a vacuum tester by now, they are again on sale at Harbor Freight, a metal bodied one for $18.99, made by General. Punch up part # 92474. Something else on sale that everyone should have is the fuel injection pressure tester at only $9.99! part # 92699. If you only use it to verify your oil pressure sender accuracy (it comes with a lot of adapters and a 100PSI gauge), you will have paid for it nicely. Regards, Jim Friesen Phoenix AZ 79 300SD, 264 K miles 98 ML 320, 152 K miles ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] What was the last real Mercedes?
The last real Mercedes is still being built today. Go to the dealership & test drive a new S class and you will understand why. I little trivia that I've told to the list several times: I remember when I was a kid in Germany and the new square line came out. That's the 114 / 115 body for those who don't know. My parents & their friends were all complaining "it's not a real Mercedes", "it doesn't have the Mercedes grill", "it will never sell", "they are cheap Mercedes imitations", "the quality isn't the same", etc, etc, etc. And some swore to never buy a Mercedes again - they did. Then the replacement for the 108 / 109 body came out in 1972 and guess what? It was the same complaints all over again. Don't we all collect, restore & drive these "Mercedes classics" today? Tom www.kegkits.com Original Message From: Trampas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: 11/10/07 01:58 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] What was the last real Mercedes? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 126 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kaleb C. Striplin Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 1:39 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] What was the last real Mercedes? 140 Steve MacSween wrote: > This is based on price/quality accordance overall, suitability for DIY, and > parts prices. > > I vote w124. > > Flames off list pls. > > Mac > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 94 E320, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] What was the last real Mercedes?
126 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kaleb C. Striplin Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 1:39 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] What was the last real Mercedes? 140 Steve MacSween wrote: > This is based on price/quality accordance overall, suitability for DIY, and > parts prices. > > I vote w124. > > Flames off list pls. > > Mac > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 94 E320, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Quality
There is no doubt that Asian manufacturers can make high quality precision goods. Nikon essentially single handedly buried the German camera industry in the 50' and 60's by doing just that. They bought the idea of precision made parts (rather than hand fitted parts) to the camera industry -- any particular part would work properly with no filling, bending, machining, or adjusting in any other set of parts -- precision parts need only be assembled, not hand fitted. US manufacturers are about the same as the old German ones -- too many of the people I have met in management are in the sole business of attempting to pinch pennies until they reproduce -- we now no longer make steel because the steel industry never upgraded their production facilities, and persisted in using the most inefficient and man hour intensive methods possible to "save money". Our automotive plants are ancient (and filthy dirty) where brute human muscle is used instead of automated machinery, quality control doesn't extend to MAKING good parts, etc. However, theie is, for all intents and purposes, no bottom in the swamp of Asian cheap goods, and there is always someone who will put the appropriate sticker on shoddy or simply incorrect goods and sell them to you as genuine. This is a traditional business practice in the East, not a new phenomenon, and if you want quality, YOU have to make sure it's actually there! Cheap oil, greedy businesses, and penny pinching/pound foolish consumers have brought us to where we are. I suspect the high and rising cost of oil will force some adjustments, fairly rapidly. It's going to be too expensive to ship even cheap shoddy junk from China to the US to compete with US manufactured goods. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] What was the last real Mercedes?
First few years were super high quality, even double pane glass in the windows. Later ones had lesser materials in the interior, etc to keep production cost down. First four years, maybe? The real problem is flaky wiring and electronics (although much of the electronics problem could be shorted harness in origin) Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] WTF?
That's so cutting edge. I bet if you huff the exhaust while using the hydrogen converter you'll lose weight! No wait...the front seats have been retro-fitted with ultrasonic massage heads that destroy cellulite while you drive. Oh...and if you fill the trunk with red brick pavers and you drive around the block while using WVO and the hydrogen converter in tandem, you'll turn the pavers into gold bricks. My favorite is when you drive around the block with a package of bologna in the glove box the bologna turns into a perfectly medium-rare ribeye. Bob R. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Quality
the mechanical seiko watch i'm wearing is said to be made under similar conditions in malaysia. for many years, the swiss have told us that making a good mechanical watch requires many master watchmakers doing much handwork. i'd put this $200 seiko up against a rolex anytime and don't imagine it would be at any disadvantage. On Nov 10, 2007 2:10 PM, Rich Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Have not been there, but I was told by some guys who went to the big > woodworking show a year or two ago (big industrial stuff) that in China they > were building million sq ft furniture factories, all automated, logs go in > one end, finished furniture comes out the other, very little human > intervention. If you go buy furniture today, lots of times you have to wait > for 6-10 weeks to get it -- transit time. And the prices of raw wood these > days is sky-high, guess where a lot of it is going? > > --R > > i am told that the chinese make absolutely top quality > violins, selling for half the cost of a comparable european violin. i am > told that the same situation exists with regards to furniture. > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Quality
Have not been there, but I was told by some guys who went to the big woodworking show a year or two ago (big industrial stuff) that in China they were building million sq ft furniture factories, all automated, logs go in one end, finished furniture comes out the other, very little human intervention. If you go buy furniture today, lots of times you have to wait for 6-10 weeks to get it -- transit time. And the prices of raw wood these days is sky-high, guess where a lot of it is going? --R i am told that the chinese make absolutely top quality violins, selling for half the cost of a comparable european violin. i am told that the same situation exists with regards to furniture. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] What was the last real Mercedes?
yeah, the 115 vs 123 debate. that takes me back. i'm still driving 123s on account of that debate, even though i do have a 124 at the bottom of my driveway. 280ce beater is my current driver. simply. proven. rugged. dead reliable. painted in my driveway with no prep and cans of rustoleum. i'm not sure i'll ever upgrade, but who knows. On Nov 10, 2007 12:48 PM, tom savage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Steve MacSween wrote: > > This is based on price/quality accordance overall, suitability for DIY, > and > > parts prices. > > > > I vote w124. > > I'd say the definition is flexible depending on current prices and > availability in the marketplace, as well as overall familiarity with a > particular car. When I first joined these lists in 1998, the 123 was in > its prime; people were buying, driving, and discussing 115s the way we > do the 124 now; and the few 124 owners out there were daredevil rich > guys on a path to certain bankruptcy at the hands of their dealer's > service department. > > I see the 123 currently shuffling off to the Heckflosse Home for Retired > Daily Drivers and the 124 as the uncontested usurper of the throne. > When late 140s are available for the same money as a 123 of similar > condition and mileage, it is hard to justify not trading up when the > urge comes. Assuming the rust doesn't kill them first, we cheapskates > and bottom-feeders will all be driving 210s in five to ten years, or > maybe 140s as a few of us do now. > > As to suitability for DIY, I've not (yet) found the 140 any more onerous > to work on than the 123. Nor is a 198 really any more difficult to keep > running, or less capable of daily driver duties, than a 107. Cost and > suitability for use, on the other hand... > > Tom > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] WTF?
That's a turbohydrodiesel, makes fuel from water to give excellent mileage on whatever is put into it. I'm guessing he has a magnetic flux inducer on the fuel line, and a Tornado turbulator on the air intake too. There might even be a spare tank somewhere to collect the fuel it generates as it is driven. You would think he would have vacuumed up the gum wrappers before he took the nice photos? --R Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320180758015&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:CA:1123 > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] What was the last real Mercedes?
on 11/10/07 13:14, Peter Frederick at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > First run of W140s, except the electronics. Can you define 'first run' for me (I was off the list for quite a while and the 140 talk seems to have gained momentum in that time) This talk of 140s has me drooling. Always liked the look, but heard nothing but 'run away, run away'. Some deals floating about in the area now. No one buys them here. Local wholesaler has had one in his driveway for 18 months. I have heard good things about the lower-spec ones they sold in Europe. Mac ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] WTF?
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320180758015&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:CA:1123 -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 94 E320, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] What was the last real Mercedes?
Probably the BEST Benz every made, but out of production before the end of the W124s. I can personally vouch for the crash safety of the W124 chassis, and the W126 and W140 are better. Don't know about the later ones, I have my doubts. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] What was the last real Mercedes?
140 Steve MacSween wrote: > This is based on price/quality accordance overall, suitability for DIY, and > parts prices. > > I vote w124. > > Flames off list pls. > > Mac > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 94 E320, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] What was the last real Mercedes?
What about the 126? On 11/10/07, Peter Frederick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > First run of W140s, except the electronics. > > The last really good ones were the W124 chassis, KE-Jet models. > > The newer ones suffer from lousy sheet metal and poor crash protection. > > Peter > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] What was the last real Mercedes?
First run of W140s, except the electronics. The last really good ones were the W124 chassis, KE-Jet models. The newer ones suffer from lousy sheet metal and poor crash protection. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Bosch Nozzles
Actually, it's a bit more complicated than that. American manufacturing has NEVER been world quality -- for some reason, we never get beyond fishing good parts out of a rising tide of bad ones, and innovation is stamped out instantly if it detracts a single cent from the current daily bottom line. Also, the Chinese artificially control their currency to much less than it's real value (this lets them convert the US into a Colony -- we send them raw materials cheap and buy high cost manufactured goods from them at artificial prices). Remember, China is still a Communist country with a centrally planned economy and full government control over all economic activity, recent "free market" behavior notwithstanding. Part of the problem with Chinese toys is that Mattel and others demand VERY low cost toys, although the sell them at the same price as quality goods. So does WalMart (and I suspect both a dipping on both ends, having a stake in the manufacturing and shipping on the Chinese end as well, I'm fairly certain WalMart does). For the store price, these goods could easily be made in the US with reasonable profit margins on modern equipment, but Mattel has decided being a transshipper of goods is better than manufacturing them. That, of course, makes their stock worth nothing (the company's assets consist of a client list and hired container handlers), but so long as no one looks close or asks sharp questions, it's one hell of a deal for the long term stockholders. The result is crap sold as high quality goods at very high profit margins, and Americans seem to chronically mistake purchase price for for value. Witness the fact that DVD players are very low price, even though a decently made one cannot be cheap. They break, but since WallyWorld sells them for, say, $59, the "value" of any DVD player instantly becomes $59 no matter what the quality. Don't ask me why, but the American market cheerfully buys trash at inflated prices in droves. Cheap stuff is NOT a good value, it's junk that the consumer paid way too much for. Nice profit margins for the distributor (upwards of 80% there for a while), but in the long run, this kinda stuff wrecks economies. Sure, there are good Chinese goods out there, but you won't see them in American stores -- not enough margin. Peter On Nov 10, 2007, at 10:32 AM, Steve MacSween wrote: > on 11/10/07 11:05, Gary Hurst at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> the deal with the chinese is that they can make any quality you would >> like >> and are willing to pay for cheaper than anyone else can. if you want >> good, >> they can make good. i am told that the chinese make absolutely top >> quality >> violins, selling for half the cost of a comparable european violin. >> i am >> told that the same situation exists with regards to furniture. > > We have to deal with the Asians. We also have to define powerfully as > consumers what we choose to deal with them for. > > People seem to have forgotten that in the lifetime of many people here > (I am > 48), "Made in Japan" has gone from a schoolyard taunt used to insult > the > possessions of another (your new bike's made in Japan, it's a piece of > ___"), to an almost universal assurance of functionality and > durability. > > Remember we made stereos, televisions and small appliances in North > America? > > The Asians have an ability to rethink, regroup and remake themselves > that is > unmatched. Did you know that the first Subarus ever imported to > California > were literally pulled off the lots and junked because of their abysmal > build > quality and coke-can sheetmetal? A decade or so later they had a cult > following in the northeast U.S. > > The Koreans and the Chinese are learning even faster than the Japanese > ever > did, and they have CPU power to leverage their grey matter even more. > Just > look at the rise of Kia in consumer ratings, crash tests and > post-purchase > quality surveys. > > In the automotive field the Europeans are a spent force, in terms of > what > gets sent here. They have completely lost sight of the price/quality > balance > scorecard. I know people who work in the dealer/service end of both VW > and > Mercedes, and they are the first to admit that the products no longer > satisfy the purchasers as they once did. > > However, my take is that Mercedes is following Volvo's (lead with its > crappy > 93-on FWD cars) and expanding its market base by broadening its appeal > to > bring fresh, younger, upwardly-mobile meat into the showrooms to > replace the > traditional clients who are slipping away. Volvo has saved its bacon > with > this, but I'm not certain it will work over the long run for Benz as > it has > a bigger reputation and heritage to live up to. > > Mac > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] >
Re: [MBZ] What was the last real Mercedes?
on 11/10/07 12:48, tom savage at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > As to suitability for DIY, I've not (yet) found the 140 any more onerous > to work on than the 123. Nor is a 198 really any more difficult to keep > running, or less capable of daily driver duties, than a 107. Cost and > suitability for use, on the other hand... Does your definition of onerous extend to parts prices? Mac ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] What was the last real Mercedes?
Steve MacSween wrote: > This is based on price/quality accordance overall, suitability for DIY, and > parts prices. > > I vote w124. I'd say the definition is flexible depending on current prices and availability in the marketplace, as well as overall familiarity with a particular car. When I first joined these lists in 1998, the 123 was in its prime; people were buying, driving, and discussing 115s the way we do the 124 now; and the few 124 owners out there were daredevil rich guys on a path to certain bankruptcy at the hands of their dealer's service department. I see the 123 currently shuffling off to the Heckflosse Home for Retired Daily Drivers and the 124 as the uncontested usurper of the throne. When late 140s are available for the same money as a 123 of similar condition and mileage, it is hard to justify not trading up when the urge comes. Assuming the rust doesn't kill them first, we cheapskates and bottom-feeders will all be driving 210s in five to ten years, or maybe 140s as a few of us do now. As to suitability for DIY, I've not (yet) found the 140 any more onerous to work on than the 123. Nor is a 198 really any more difficult to keep running, or less capable of daily driver duties, than a 107. Cost and suitability for use, on the other hand... Tom ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] What was the last real Mercedes?
I say 123. Bob R. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve MacSween Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 9:37 AM To: Mercedes List Subject: [MBZ] What was the last real Mercedes? This is based on price/quality accordance overall, suitability for DIY, and parts prices. I vote w124. Flames off list pls. Mac ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] What was the last real Mercedes?
This is based on price/quality accordance overall, suitability for DIY, and parts prices. I vote w124. Flames off list pls. Mac ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Bosch Nozzles
on 11/10/07 11:05, Gary Hurst at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > the deal with the chinese is that they can make any quality you would like > and are willing to pay for cheaper than anyone else can. if you want good, > they can make good. i am told that the chinese make absolutely top quality > violins, selling for half the cost of a comparable european violin. i am > told that the same situation exists with regards to furniture. We have to deal with the Asians. We also have to define powerfully as consumers what we choose to deal with them for. People seem to have forgotten that in the lifetime of many people here (I am 48), "Made in Japan" has gone from a schoolyard taunt used to insult the possessions of another (your new bike's made in Japan, it's a piece of ___"), to an almost universal assurance of functionality and durability. Remember we made stereos, televisions and small appliances in North America? The Asians have an ability to rethink, regroup and remake themselves that is unmatched. Did you know that the first Subarus ever imported to California were literally pulled off the lots and junked because of their abysmal build quality and coke-can sheetmetal? A decade or so later they had a cult following in the northeast U.S. The Koreans and the Chinese are learning even faster than the Japanese ever did, and they have CPU power to leverage their grey matter even more. Just look at the rise of Kia in consumer ratings, crash tests and post-purchase quality surveys. In the automotive field the Europeans are a spent force, in terms of what gets sent here. They have completely lost sight of the price/quality balance scorecard. I know people who work in the dealer/service end of both VW and Mercedes, and they are the first to admit that the products no longer satisfy the purchasers as they once did. However, my take is that Mercedes is following Volvo's (lead with its crappy 93-on FWD cars) and expanding its market base by broadening its appeal to bring fresh, younger, upwardly-mobile meat into the showrooms to replace the traditional clients who are slipping away. Volvo has saved its bacon with this, but I'm not certain it will work over the long run for Benz as it has a bigger reputation and heritage to live up to. Mac ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Vacuum leaks 1980 300D
What the others have said, Douglas. To elaborate, if you remove the glove box liner and possibly the lower panel under the dash you'll be able to access the manifold thru which all the vacuum circuits are routed. Testing individual circuits at the manifold will tell you whether there's leakage in a given vacuum line or its associated element. When I went thru the '80 I was able to resecure some old loose rubber connectors using small zip ties. IIRC, I had to remove a few bits from the center console to gain access and in at least a couple of cases that access was quite tight; having relatively small hands was a distinct benefit. The only circuit I didn't repair was the leaking element that controls fresh air flow thru the center vents. Have to confess I rube goldberged that one as that element is probably the most difficult to access for replacement. What I did was to plug the vacuum line at the manifold and abandon that element. I removed the round center vents thru which I could, barely, insert my hands and cut a wooden wedge to hold the fresh air flap open. Reinstalled the vents which now allow for manual control of fresh air flow. Guess I lied in the ad I just placed on c/l when I stated that *everything* works as intended. ;) -joe ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Bosch Nozzles
not many chinese parts and the few we have are made by OEM manufacturers. it's difficult to tell how bad this is as some people claim that the chinese made is just as good as the german made and some claim they are not. they have not presented any quality problems. there is a huge anti asian parts bias among mercedes owners, so it's pretty hard to know what to believe about their quality. years ago, we had access to very very high quality asian motor mounts and no one wanted them, preferring the inferior and higher priced german mounts. nothing you could say or do would change that. the deal with the chinese is that they can make any quality you would like and are willing to pay for cheaper than anyone else can. if you want good, they can make good. i am told that the chinese make absolutely top quality violins, selling for half the cost of a comparable european violin. i am told that the same situation exists with regards to furniture. so i guess i deal with it as such: 1. i have no issue with asian products that i perceive to be of superior quality and would choose them over german products. for example, i'd buy akebono brake pads over textars any day of the weak. 2. if a product is made in asia under the name of an OEM or, really, any well known western company, i am willing to give the product the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. for example, in terms of shoes i've been wearing nothing but crocs for the past 2 years. some are just marked "boulder, colorado" and some are marked "made in china". i make no distinction between them. 3. asian junk, like any junk, should be entirely avoided. in terms of toys, i would not let my kid mess with no name chinese toys, but would let her if it was made by a brand such as mattel. while i'd like to avoid chinese toys altogether, this is almost impossible as nearly all popular kid toys are made in china and you really can't switch out barbie with swedish educational all birch natural building blocks and make it work. On Nov 10, 2007 10:28 AM, LarryT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Gary, >A few years back - probably 20 yrs I expect, there was a problem with > Chinese counterfiet fasteners. Seems the biggest problem was in bolts > needed in critical applications (naturally) - flywheel bolts, rod bolts, > etc. Bolt started breaking and when the metal was evaluated it failed the > meturlurgy test even though the paperwork seemed to be in place. > Eventually > the truth came out and it was learned the Chinese had counterfeited the > fasteners from birth to shipping. All the paperwork was perfect - > >Now, we have toys made in China covered in lead paint and plastic toy > beads which turn into a date rape drug when wet. Naturally kids being > kids, > the 1st thing they do is put them in their mouths. Several kids have died > and several more in Austraulia. > >Wondering how many of your parts are made in China and have you seen > any > quality problems? > > Later -- > > Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) > www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts > Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil > PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net > Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs > . > > - Original Message - > From: "Gary Hurst" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Mercedes Discussion List" > Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 10:11 AM > Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bosch Nozzles > > > > no, the consumer wants cheap, so he gets cheap. the germans can do > "good" > > but it doesn't seem that "cheap and good" is something they have > mastered. > > but the other twist on this is that they don't sell it to the consumer > all > > that cheap . so we are left with "expensive and crappy" > > > > and this, my friends, is in summa why mercedes has become the jaguar of > > the > > 21st century. > > > > On Nov 10, 2007 12:16 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> I wonder if that is the same reason Bosch had so many troubles with the > >> ABS/ASR system on alot of the VW's. Cheaper labor and substandard > parts? > >> Its > >> any wonder they stay in business, is there no pride in making good > >> products > >> anymore??? > >> > >> > >> Harry > >> 69 280 SEL > >> 72 350SL ? > >> 04 VW Passat 4 Motion > >> 1999 Mazda Miata ? > >> > >> > >> -Original Message- > >> From: Gary Hurst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> To: Mercedes Discussion List > >> Sent: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 8:59 am > >> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bosch Nozzles > >> > >> > >> > >> like many people at this point, i've given up on bosch spark plugs > >> completely and now use ngk. > >> > >> On Nov 9, 2007 9:19 AM, M.Affzaal.Khan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >> > >> > So are most of the India Bosch spark plugs ,poor finish with a rough > >> > grainy > >> > feel. worst they can fail without warnings > >> > on the M130 engine some starting shorting intermittently and engine > >> felt > >> > heavy, a set of ND solved the problem with full smooth power. > >> > mak > >> > ---
Re: [MBZ] Bosch Nozzles
I was Q.C. guy at a high quality fastener house a few years ago. At the time, you could buy a pound of HIGH Quality Japaneese fasteners cheaper than a pound of raw steel here! Those cap screws would pass ALL tests. Today, most of the high quality cap screws come fron off shore. ;-( Pete -- Original message -- From: "LarryT" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Hi Gary, > A few years back - probably 20 yrs I expect, there was a problem with > Chinese counterfiet fasteners. Seems the biggest problem was in bolts > needed in critical applications (naturally) - flywheel bolts, rod bolts, > etc. Bolt started breaking and when the metal was evaluated it failed the > meturlurgy test even though the paperwork seemed to be in place. Eventually > the truth came out and it was learned the Chinese had counterfeited the > fasteners from birth to shipping. All the paperwork was perfect - > > Now, we have toys made in China covered in lead paint and plastic toy > beads which turn into a date rape drug when wet. Naturally kids being kids, > the 1st thing they do is put them in their mouths. Several kids have died > and several more in Austraulia. > > Wondering how many of your parts are made in China and have you seen any > quality problems? > > Later -- > > Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) > www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts > Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil > PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net > Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs > . > > - Original Message - > From: "Gary Hurst" > To: "Mercedes Discussion List" > Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 10:11 AM > Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bosch Nozzles > > > > no, the consumer wants cheap, so he gets cheap. the germans can do "good" > > but it doesn't seem that "cheap and good" is something they have mastered. > > but the other twist on this is that they don't sell it to the consumer all > > that cheap . so we are left with "expensive and crappy" > > > > and this, my friends, is in summa why mercedes has become the jaguar of > > the > > 21st century. > > > > On Nov 10, 2007 12:16 AM, wrote: > > > >> I wonder if that is the same reason Bosch had so many troubles with the > >> ABS/ASR system on alot of the VW's. Cheaper labor and substandard parts? > >> Its > >> any wonder they stay in business, is there no pride in making good > >> products > >> anymore??? > >> > >> > >> Harry > >> 69 280 SEL > >> 72 350SL ? > >> 04 VW Passat 4 Motion > >> 1999 Mazda Miata ? > >> > >> > >> -Original Message- > >> From: Gary Hurst > >> To: Mercedes Discussion List > >> Sent: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 8:59 am > >> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bosch Nozzles > >> > >> > >> > >> like many people at this point, i've given up on bosch spark plugs > >> completely and now use ngk. > >> > >> On Nov 9, 2007 9:19 AM, M.Affzaal.Khan wrote: > >> > >> > So are most of the India Bosch spark plugs ,poor finish with a rough > >> > grainy > >> > feel. worst they can fail without warnings > >> > on the M130 engine some starting shorting intermittently and engine > >> felt > >> > heavy, a set of ND solved the problem with full smooth power. > >> > mak > >> > - Original Message - > >> > From: "Peter Merle" > >> > To: "Mercedes Discussion List" > >> > Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 1:31 PM > >> > Subject: [MBZ] Bosch Nozzles > >> > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > Whent to my local Mercedes Dealer and bought new nozzles DNSOD-265 > >> for > >> > > the W124 300D ( non turbo ) and these to my horror are made in India. > >> > > Upon opening the sealed capsule they came in I see under > >> > > magnification > >> > > that its covered in dirt and visible machining marks. Spray is also > >> poor > >> > > as is opening pressure which has dropped 1500 kpa. Then phoned the > >> local > >> > > Bosch dealer and they also only sell the Indian version. Can one > >> > > still > >> > > get 265's made in Europe? > >> > > > >> > > Peter ( South Africa ) > >> > > > >> > > ___ > >> > > http://www.okiebenz.com > >> > > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > >> > > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > > > >> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > >> > > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > -- > >> > > No virus found in this incoming message. > >> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >> > > Version: 7.5.486 / Virus Database: 269.15.23/1114 - Release Date: > >> > > 11/6/2007 8:05 PM > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > ___ > >> > http://www.okiebenz.com > >> > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > >> > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > > >> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > >> > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/lis
Re: [MBZ] Vacuum leaks 1980 300D
Doug, Get a mitivac as others suggested. The chain car parts places have them. Don't pay extra for a fancy metal one. Get some vacuum hose and golf tees for blocking the rubber vacuum lines. I attached the 123 vacuum diagrams, which are in section 80 of the service manual. Start under the hood first to determine which system(s) (e.g. doors, ACC, etc.) are leaking then troubleshoot them one at a time. For the locking system, the main junction under the passenger's floor mat is the place to start and you can check 80% of it from right there. When you find a leaky circuit, disconnect it and stop the line to that circuit with a tee so you can check the rest of the system. Just takes a methodical approach and some patience. After you find the leaks, fixing them is another matter. Scott -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Douglas Sherman Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 22:46 To: Mercedes List Subject: [MBZ] Vacuum leaks 1980 300D Alright I have the climate control working now. Though I have a need to repair the vacuum leaks that are present in the car I know that both the door system and the climate leaks. What do all you do instead of a smoke machine to find these leaks? I find it difficult to just "Try" different spots. Any help on this matter would be nice.:) TIA Douglas ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 80-900.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 235816 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20071110/7d23567d/attachment.pdf ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Bosch Nozzles
Hi Gary, A few years back - probably 20 yrs I expect, there was a problem with Chinese counterfiet fasteners. Seems the biggest problem was in bolts needed in critical applications (naturally) - flywheel bolts, rod bolts, etc. Bolt started breaking and when the metal was evaluated it failed the meturlurgy test even though the paperwork seemed to be in place. Eventually the truth came out and it was learned the Chinese had counterfeited the fasteners from birth to shipping. All the paperwork was perfect - Now, we have toys made in China covered in lead paint and plastic toy beads which turn into a date rape drug when wet. Naturally kids being kids, the 1st thing they do is put them in their mouths. Several kids have died and several more in Austraulia. Wondering how many of your parts are made in China and have you seen any quality problems? Later -- Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: "Gary Hurst" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 10:11 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bosch Nozzles > no, the consumer wants cheap, so he gets cheap. the germans can do "good" > but it doesn't seem that "cheap and good" is something they have mastered. > but the other twist on this is that they don't sell it to the consumer all > that cheap . so we are left with "expensive and crappy" > > and this, my friends, is in summa why mercedes has become the jaguar of > the > 21st century. > > On Nov 10, 2007 12:16 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> I wonder if that is the same reason Bosch had so many troubles with the >> ABS/ASR system on alot of the VW's. Cheaper labor and substandard parts? >> Its >> any wonder they stay in business, is there no pride in making good >> products >> anymore??? >> >> >> Harry >> 69 280 SEL >> 72 350SL ? >> 04 VW Passat 4 Motion >> 1999 Mazda Miata ? >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Gary Hurst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: Mercedes Discussion List >> Sent: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 8:59 am >> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bosch Nozzles >> >> >> >> like many people at this point, i've given up on bosch spark plugs >> completely and now use ngk. >> >> On Nov 9, 2007 9:19 AM, M.Affzaal.Khan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> > So are most of the India Bosch spark plugs ,poor finish with a rough >> > grainy >> > feel. worst they can fail without warnings >> > on the M130 engine some starting shorting intermittently and engine >> felt >> > heavy, a set of ND solved the problem with full smooth power. >> > mak >> > - Original Message - >> > From: "Peter Merle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > To: "Mercedes Discussion List" >> > Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 1:31 PM >> > Subject: [MBZ] Bosch Nozzles >> > >> > >> > > >> > > Whent to my local Mercedes Dealer and bought new nozzles DNSOD-265 >> for >> > > the W124 300D ( non turbo ) and these to my horror are made in India. >> > > Upon opening the sealed capsule they came in I see under >> > > magnification >> > > that its covered in dirt and visible machining marks. Spray is also >> poor >> > > as is opening pressure which has dropped 1500 kpa. Then phoned the >> local >> > > Bosch dealer and they also only sell the Indian version. Can one >> > > still >> > > get 265's made in Europe? >> > > >> > > Peter ( South Africa ) >> > > >> > > ___ >> > > http://www.okiebenz.com >> > > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ >> > > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > > >> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> > > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > No virus found in this incoming message. >> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> > > Version: 7.5.486 / Virus Database: 269.15.23/1114 - Release Date: >> > > 11/6/2007 8:05 PM >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > ___ >> > http://www.okiebenz.com >> > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ >> > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > >> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ >> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> >> >> Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- Unlimited storage and >> industry-leading spam and email virus protection. >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> For ne
Re: [MBZ] Bosch Nozzles
no, the consumer wants cheap, so he gets cheap. the germans can do "good" but it doesn't seem that "cheap and good" is something they have mastered. but the other twist on this is that they don't sell it to the consumer all that cheap . so we are left with "expensive and crappy" and this, my friends, is in summa why mercedes has become the jaguar of the 21st century. On Nov 10, 2007 12:16 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I wonder if that is the same reason Bosch had so many troubles with the > ABS/ASR system on alot of the VW's. Cheaper labor and substandard parts? Its > any wonder they stay in business, is there no pride in making good products > anymore??? > > > Harry > 69 280 SEL > 72 350SL ? > 04 VW Passat 4 Motion > 1999 Mazda Miata ? > > > -Original Message- > From: Gary Hurst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Sent: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 8:59 am > Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bosch Nozzles > > > > like many people at this point, i've given up on bosch spark plugs > completely and now use ngk. > > On Nov 9, 2007 9:19 AM, M.Affzaal.Khan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > So are most of the India Bosch spark plugs ,poor finish with a rough > > grainy > > feel. worst they can fail without warnings > > on the M130 engine some starting shorting intermittently and engine > felt > > heavy, a set of ND solved the problem with full smooth power. > > mak > > - Original Message - > > From: "Peter Merle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Mercedes Discussion List" > > Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 1:31 PM > > Subject: [MBZ] Bosch Nozzles > > > > > > > > > > Whent to my local Mercedes Dealer and bought new nozzles DNSOD-265 > for > > > the W124 300D ( non turbo ) and these to my horror are made in India. > > > Upon opening the sealed capsule they came in I see under magnification > > > that its covered in dirt and visible machining marks. Spray is also > poor > > > as is opening pressure which has dropped 1500 kpa. Then phoned the > local > > > Bosch dealer and they also only sell the Indian version. Can one still > > > get 265's made in Europe? > > > > > > Peter ( South Africa ) > > > > > > ___ > > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > > > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > Version: 7.5.486 / Virus Database: 269.15.23/1114 - Release Date: > > > 11/6/2007 8:05 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- Unlimited storage and > industry-leading spam and email virus protection. > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
