Re: [MBZ] SLS pump for a 123 wanted

[Fmiser]

> David Bruckmann wrote:

> I'm not sure what "rough shape" means.

I opened it up, with the plan to replace the shaft seal.

The shaft is stuck in the cover and the cover bushing-to-shaft
is _way_ to loose.  And the shaft has worn grooves, and scoring
from the body bushing.

The pump from the parts car is actually in better shape - except
the seal grooves are deeper.

Both, I suspect, ran for a considerably amount of time without
sufficient clean oil in the system. :(

I haven't bought used parts since Atlanta Stutgard closed shop...

Is there a respectable used parts supplier?

--Philip

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Re: [MBZ] SLS pump for a 123 wanted

[David Bruckmann]

I'm not sure what "rough shape" means. If it's just visibly leaking (or leaking 
internally, causing the hydraulic fluid to turn black wiht engine oil), you can 
try replacing the shaft seals. Often, the leak is because the (pump's) camshaft 
has wear grooves worn into it. Replacing the seals will provide temporary 
relief, but obviously they will not hold as long.

The repair job number is 32-645 in the Chassis manual. Seems like a relatively 
easy job. I think the seal p/ns are 010 997 43 45 and 004 997 01 47. 

D.

Philip wrote:
>
>The Self Leveling Suspension pump on my '85 wagon is in pretty
>rough shape.
>
>So too is the one from the parts car.
>
>And I'm trying to avoid spending  on a new one.
>
>Anyone here know of a used one in decent shape?
>
>--   Philip
>

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[MBZ] Great Chinese State Circus/Swan Lake

[RELNGSON]

http://www.nzwide.com/swanlake.htm

RLE/ot
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Scale of the Universe

[Craig]

On Wed, 15 Dec 2010 20:27:10 -0600 OK Don  wrote:

> Very cool, but some of the data is wrong - the wave length of a radio
> wave in the AM band (1000 KHz) is 300 meters, not 100. The wave length
> of a radio wave in the FM band (100MHz) is 3 meters. Brings into doubt
> the rest -- However, it is still a cool presentation.

It is indeed a cool presentation, and the two numbers are correct as you
cited. They did get the light year correct, however.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD

[Allan Streib]

"Max Dillon"  writes:

> After that, pull the injectors and have the compression checked and
> have the injectors tested while they're out (don't forget to use new
> heat shields when you put the injectors back in).

Does anyone know of a good injector service shop (can test, balance, and
if necessary rebuild injectors using quality components).  Or is this
something that any diesel service shop normally does fairly well?

Allan
-- 
1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] SLS pump for a 123 wanted

[Fmiser]

> Max Dillon wrote:

> Andrew's got one attached to an engine with really bad
> compression that won't start...

I thought that was the car he was hunting for another engine for
- 'cause the engine in it doesn't have the drive for a pump.

Or is that his other wagon.

--   Philip

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Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD

[Max Dillon]

No.  You still could have bad glow plugs, low compression (valve adjustment
or rings), bad injectors, leaking fuel lines.  Your car is trying to tell
you that it needs attention; that is all we know so far.  The easiest thing
to try first is measuring the resistance of the glow plugs.  Next would be
pulling the pre-glow relay fuse to see if it has cracks or crumbles in your
fingers.  After that, try operating the manual primer pump; if it leaks, it
needs to be replaced.  If it doesn't leak, keep pumping while SWMBO tries to
start the car (already recommended; if that helps, then you know you have a
leak in the fuel system.  I'd say the valve adjustment is 3rd from last, as
you say it was done recently.  After that, pull the injectors and have the
compression checked and have the injectors tested while they're out (don't
forget to use new heat shields when you put the injectors back in).

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of andrew strasfogel
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 4:56 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD

Another question.  The "good" 300TD starts without glowing when the
engine is warm.  The "bad" 85 300TD always needs to be glowed before
starting, regardless of engine temperature.  It starts quicker when
it's warm, but I still need to glow it or it cranks a lot.  Does this
observation mean the glow plugs aren't the problem?

On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 9:12 AM, Rich Thomas
 wrote:
> Yeah that sounds right.  I forget these things, maybe I should use a
> notebook or something when doing these jobs.  But those gearwrenches are
> great tools.
>
> --R
>
> On 12/14/2010 10:35 AM, John Reames wrote:
>>
>> An 8mm gearwrench for the electrical connections, and a 10mm for the
plugs
>> proper.
>>
>> --
>> John W Reames
>> jwrea...@comcast.net
>> Home: +14106646986
>> Mobile: +14437915905
>>
>> On Dec 14, 2010, at 10:28, Rich
>> Thomas  wrote:
>>
>>> Might want to check your glow plugs, relay, and CHECK YOUR FUSE.  The 84
>>> SD was getting a bit balky, even in warm weather, I replaced a couple of
>>> glow plugs and the relay (which did not appear to be relaying very well
for
>>> reasons unclear), and it fires right up (though I have not yet tried it
>>> today after last night way down in the 20s).  I CHANGED THE FUSE too,
first
>>> thing, but it was OK so that was not the issue.  Sort of minimal stuff
that
>>> you should probably check as a matter of course, but makes quite the
>>> difference.
>>>
>>> Note:  changing the glow plugs really benefits from a 10mm (I think)
>>> gearwrench as that is about the only thing I could fit in there easily
to
>>> loosen/tighten everything.  The relay is easy to change, make sure you
>>> disconnect the battery first.
>>>
>>> --R
>>>
>>> On 12/14/2010 10:14 AM, andrew strasfogel wrote:

 This is a new problem for me.  The 1985 300TD recently had a valve
 adjustment so I wasn't too worried about it starting in the cold.
 Well, I should have been!  Yesterday, with a temp of around 23 F.,
 after sitting in the street for a mere 6 hours the 300TD barely
 started up without running down the (relatively new) battery.  I had
 to key the glow cycle three times for an additional 10-20 seconds each
 time before it fired up.

 So how do I diagnose whether this is bad glow plugs or low
 compression?  Or could it be something else?  The car never fires up
 quickly in the best of circumstances, compared to the '83 turbo diesel
 wagon, although it has adequate power and acceleration.  Fuel is
 clean, too (I recently changed the tank strainer and other filters).

 As always, TIA.

 Andrew
 1983 300TD starts like a 300TE
 1985 300TD needs to  be wound up

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>>
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Re: [MBZ] Windshield Wiper W124

[Allan Streib]

Are the blades old?  Hard, old blades can skip and chatter even on wet glass.

 writes:

> Hi Gang,
> My wife told me the WW was acting funny (she always talks in highly technical 
> terms) so I checked it out tonight – because we’re having a snow storm 
> tomorrow.  Great timing, huh?
>
> Anyway, it sounds like the wiper blade is dry and dragging across the glass.  
> It wasn’t as I sprayed it with cleaner fluid.  I lubricated the mechanism as 
> much as I could without disassembling anything.  It’s a bit better.  But I 
> worry.  
>
> Anyone BTDT?
>

-- 
1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] SLS pump for a 123 wanted

[Max Dillon]

Andrew's got one attached to an engine with really bad compression that
won't start...

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Fmiser
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 9:24 PM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: [MBZ] SLS pump for a 123 wanted

The Self Leveling Suspension pump on my '85 wagon is in pretty
rough shape.

So too is the one from the parts car.

And I'm trying to avoid spending  on a new one.

Anyone here know of a used one in decent shape?

--   Philip

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Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD

[Allan Streib]

Mitch Haley  writes:

> Uneven running might be a problem with injector or IP balance, or
> maybe a GP or prechamber isn't quite right. (unless you're really
> lucky and its just a clogged fuel filter or pickup screen. (but
> usually by the time it won't idle right, the fuel starvation cuts
> noticeably into the power)

I'm thinking it's not glow plugs because it does start easily.  In my
experience, starting becomes noticeably difficult in cold weather with
even one bad glow plug.

Fuel filters... hmm.  It has been a while.  I think I have some around
here somewhere, I'll try changing them tomorrow and see.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Scale of the Universe

[Mountain Man]

Somehow this baloney seems useless and nonsense.
It does not assist me exchange my slave cylinder.
It does not help me make my fried egg in the morning.
Nobody will never get there and all of this 'science' is pure
speculation based on 'tested' scientific 'methods' that have a
semblance of rationality, but are pure speculation and mathematical
slight of hand.
We cannot even find peace half way around the block or half way around
the world - why is this stuff even put up on the web?  I guess it is
more 'science' pornography.
mao

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[MBZ] Windshield Wiper W124

[l02turner]

Hi Gang,
My wife told me the WW was acting funny (she always talks in highly technical 
terms) so I checked it out tonight – because we’re having a snow storm 
tomorrow.  Great timing, huh?

Anyway, it sounds like the wiper blade is dry and dragging across the glass.  
It wasn’t as I sprayed it with cleaner fluid.  I lubricated the mechanism as 
much as I could without disassembling anything.  It’s a bit better.  But I 
worry.  

Anyone BTDT?

TIA - 
LarryT
91 300D
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Re: [MBZ] Beam patterns from different times and and countries.

[l02turner]

This website has a excellent explanation of the different bulbs - their 
wattage, useage, etc along with images of many different lens'.Very 
informative.  This guy makes a great relay kit for Porsche (and others) 
headlights so they can take more power safely.


LarryT
91 300D

-Original Message- 
From: relng...@aol.com

Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 8:14 PM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Beam patterns from different times and and countries.


..Isn't the lamp lens customized for lighting patterns in different
countries? Maybe 4 was the US pattern?..


It is for right or left hand traffic.

Beyond that, the beam patterns with H-4s have been the same for decades.
For the one example I know about, the stock headlights in my '95 W202 C280
used H-4 (100/160W) bulbs producing the Euro beam pattern with the low beam
sharp cutoff which is the same beam pattern my 2008 C300's Bi-Xenon low 
beams

have.

And the old Cibie Z-Beams in my Porsche with JC Whitney 100/160W H-4s (four
relays) have the exact same pattern.

RLE

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Re: [MBZ] (SPAM?) hose heater versus block heater?!!

[Jim Cathey]

Should we keep trying the hose heaters, and is there one that really 
works long term?


The real deal works well, and for years.  Getting the block
plug out is the hard part.  See:

http://userweb.windwireless.net/~jimc/frankenheap.html#blockheater

(Or maybe tank instead of userweb, today.)

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] Headlights Q; dual-filament H3?

[Jim Cathey]

just in case you didn't already know, Daniel Stern (love him or 
hate him) offers H4 lamps in a variety of wattage combination on an R2 
base,... for $11-14 for standard wattage, it might not be worth the 
trouble to bother with brewing your own.;-)


Found out about those _after_ making the first adapter.
Making the second one was easy after that, and I can get
spares anywhere.  I got a batch of liquidation H3 & H4
bulbs, that was nice.

My web site name seems to be down, but the machine is up.
You can try using "tank" instead of "userweb", that might
work.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] OT: Scale of the Universe

[E M]

This is one I like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEheh1BH34Q

Ed
300E

On 15 December 2010 21:27, OK Don  wrote:

> Very cool, but some of the data is wrong - the wave length of a radio wave
> in the AM band (1000 KHz) is 300 meters, not 100. The wave length of a
> radio
> wave in the FM band (100MHz) is 3 meters. Brings into doubt the rest --
> However, it is still a cool presentation.
>
> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 6:27 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin  >wrote:
>
> > A new, interesting perspective of an old theme.
> >
> > Use the blue square at the bottom of the figure to change scale.
> >
> > http://uploads.ungrounded.net/525000/525347_scale_of_universe_ng.swf
> > --
> >
> OK Don, who recently "worked" So. Africa on the 40 meter band (7 MHz) with
> only 10 watts of power.
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Scale of the Universe

[OK Don]

Very cool, but some of the data is wrong - the wave length of a radio wave
in the AM band (1000 KHz) is 300 meters, not 100. The wave length of a radio
wave in the FM band (100MHz) is 3 meters. Brings into doubt the rest --
However, it is still a cool presentation.

On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 6:27 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

> A new, interesting perspective of an old theme.
>
> Use the blue square at the bottom of the figure to change scale.
>
> http://uploads.ungrounded.net/525000/525347_scale_of_universe_ng.swf
> --
>
OK Don, who recently "worked" So. Africa on the 40 meter band (7 MHz) with
only 10 watts of power.
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[MBZ] SLS pump for a 123 wanted

[Fmiser]

The Self Leveling Suspension pump on my '85 wagon is in pretty
rough shape.

So too is the one from the parts car.

And I'm trying to avoid spending  on a new one.

Anyone here know of a used one in decent shape?

--   Philip

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Re: [MBZ] Left hand

[RELNGSON]

> WRT the OP, he said that his lamps were labeled "H3", not H4.
> H3 and H4 are both bulb type specifications, not related to point
> of use. for example, you can order H4 lamps for your car with lenses
> designed to be used while driving on either side of the road...
> 
One of my Euros (Bosch, Cibie, MB OEM? can't recall) had sockets which 
allowed the bulb to be rotated a tiny bit when changing over to left hand 
traffic lenses. Or could that have been the Bosch Euros in my 123?

Too many cars/too many lights.

RLE
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Beam patterns from different times and and countries.

[RELNGSON]

> ..Isn't the lamp lens customized for lighting patterns in different 
> countries? Maybe 4 was the US pattern?..
> 
It is for right or left hand traffic. 

Beyond that, the beam patterns with H-4s have been the same for decades. 
For the one example I know about, the stock headlights in my '95 W202 C280 
used H-4 (100/160W) bulbs producing the Euro beam pattern with the low beam 
sharp cutoff which is the same beam pattern my 2008 C300's Bi-Xenon low beams 
have.

And the old Cibie Z-Beams in my Porsche with JC Whitney 100/160W H-4s (four 
relays) have the exact same pattern.

RLE

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[MBZ] Rain gauge/self emptying and cheap

[RELNGSON]

>From Oregon Scientific

http://www.oregonscientificstore.com/oregon_scientific/product.asp?itmky=830
180&model=RGR126&cat=2&subcat=449657&sortby=&filtermfg=&page=

RLE
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Re: [MBZ] griots correction

[Walt Zarnoch]

Or it makes it there too quickly and excess gets dropped, which is sometimes
my problem.

Walt
On Dec 15, 2010 8:00 PM,  wrote:
>> www.griots.com..
>>
> Data stored in brain does not always make to typing fingers.
>
> RLE
>>
>>
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Re: [MBZ] griots correction

[RELNGSON]

> www.griots.com..
> 
Data stored in brain does not always make to typing fingers.

RLE
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD

[Curt Raymond]

No but it points more at the starter or the cables. In the absence of anything 
else to do you could go around cleaning and inspecting the cables...

I don't remember, did you say how old the plugs are? Have you had the engine 
compression tested? Shouldn't cost much to have that done and it would give you 
a good baseline.
Its also still possible that the valves were set incorrectly.

-Curt

Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 16:56:04 -0500
From: andrew strasfogel 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
Message-ID:
    
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Another question.  The "good" 300TD starts without glowing when the
engine is warm.  The "bad" 85 300TD always needs to be glowed before
starting, regardless of engine temperature.  It starts quicker when
it's warm, but I still need to glow it or it cranks a lot.  Does this
observation mean the glow plugs aren't the problem?


  
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Re: [MBZ] hose heater versus block heater?

[Curt Raymond]

The block heater will use about 1/2 the electricity to get the engine warm 
enough to start ~400W vs ~1000W, your electricity bill will thank you.

Getting the plug to seal is not an issue (its threaded) but getting the old 
plug out can be. Something best left to a professional if you're not sure of 
yourself.

For a better quality hose heater try a truck shop...

-Curt

Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 09:27:29 -0700
From: Chris N John 
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: [MBZ] hose heater versus block heater?!!
Message-ID: <4d08ec71.4020...@tctwest.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Hi, everyone
We too are having issues with our car starting this winter (1980 300 
SD). Hubbie put about 4 different hose heaters on it last winter. The 
last one finally worked once or twice. (We won't mention the local car 
parts store) We tried it again in November and it seemed to be doing 
fine and then the morning we had appointments to keep 80 miles away and 
temp was -20, guess what? Yep-- it didn't work at all. We made it to 
appointments, but used up our "easy" travel margin of time for sure!!
So, my question is: the block heaters sound more dependable and 
efficient but hubbie is concerned about problems installing in the old 
car. He thinks it will be hard to seal up after removing the old plug, 
which seems to be another big concern, too. Any feedback from you 
experts? Should we keep trying the hose heaters, and is there one that 
really works long term?? Thanks for advice!
Wishing you all a Wonderful Christmas Season and a Great New Year to 
come, Christy


  
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Scale of the Universe

[E M]

Very cool !!

Ed
300E

On 15 December 2010 19:27, Kaleb C. Striplin  wrote:

>
>
>
>
> A new, interesting perspective of an old theme.
>
> Use the blue square at the bottom of the figure to change scale.
>
> http://uploads.ungrounded.net/525000/525347_scale_of_universe_ng.swf
>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] RUF

[E M]

I have several pics of a meet my friend attended a few years back, with Mr.
Ruf and also the original Yellowbird in attendance.  He has been lucky
enough to sample several of Ruf's models, along with a CTR.  Not the
original Yellowbird, as it was undergoing a full restoration at the time,
but a later production model.  That old bird had a lot of miles on it, and I
would imagine more than a few offs, so it was in need of a bit of
freshening.

While my friend was out in the CTR, he was asked when he returned if he
managed 300 kph.  He said no, only 270kph.  Stefan then took him out for a
quick blast, and I think he said they saw 310 or so. Tha's about what they
clocked his RTC at on the autobahn as well, before packing it up and
shipping it over.  The man really does stand behind is products.

I still have the original RUF sales brochure for North America.  I also have
the press release kit for the CRT2, from when I was editor of our regions
Porsche Club mag.  A very nice letter from Mr. Ruf too, which I keep meaning
to have framed.

(Benz content)..I have an old original AMG catalog.  Lots of neat stuff back
when AMG was a stand alone tuner.  They even had kits for the W123 wagon!!
I also liked the look of it. If I ever get a scanner, I'll post some pics
from it.  Funny to look back now, at what seemed like King Kong power back
then!! hee hee  Still, the Hammer was a hot piece of kit for it's day!  186
mph in a 4 door W124, unheard of.

Ed
911SC

On 13 December 2010 00:25,  wrote:

> > ...Daydreaming a bit here.  One other car that could do it back then, and
> > my
> > all time favourite car, was the RUF CTR.  To me, it was everything an
> > early
> > 911 was, just taken to a higher, MUCH higher level.  The 959 was
> > brilliant,
> > but I always thought of it as more of an engineering exercise, much as
> the
> > Bugatti Vayron is today.
> >
> > I was lucky enough to have several correspondences from Mr. Ruf while I
> > was
> > editor of our regional Porsche Club magazine, many years ago.  He also
> > introduced me to a gentleman, who is a car enthousast in the truest sense
> > of
> > the word, and a fellow who has become a dear friend over the past 20
> years
> > or so.  He is also the proud owner of a RUF RTC.  He changes rear tires
> on
> > a
> > regular basis, to which Mr. Ruf says, "good, you must be driving it
> > properly." :-)  He is also friends with the fellow who owns the only
> > "real"
> > RUF CTR (first gen Yellowbird) in North America.  Featured in Excellence
> a
> > year or so ago...
> >
> During PCA's 50th Porsche Parade in Hershey PA in 2005, my friend Dennis
> Frick, owner of Europa Macchina in Lewisberry PA hosted a dinner get
> together
> at his restoration shop (12000sq ft) and the guest of honor was Alois Ruf.
> Yellowbird was in attendance along with a few other RUF cars. He is a very
> personable guy, indeed. Another PCA friend, U of I Prof. Bob White of
> Chicago
> was there with his Ruf which he has owned for years and drives on a regular
> basis.
>
> Dennis's shop truck, a perfectly restored old MB panel was featured in the
> STAR a few years back when Frank Barret was editor.
>
> RLE
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Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD

[Mitch Haley]

Allan Streib wrote:


Is this the problem that the the rack damper bold adjustment cures?  Or
is that for excessive shaking at hot idle?


Uneven running might be a problem with injector or IP balance, or maybe a GP or 
prechamber isn't quite right. (unless you're really lucky and its just a clogged 
fuel filter or pickup screen. (but usually by the time it won't idle right, the 
fuel starvation cuts noticeably into the power)


The hand throttle on pre 1980 cars covers up most rough idle issues. I adjusted 
my 1979 SD up until max hand throttle let the turbo run away with a hot engine, 
then backed off 1/2 turn on the adjuster. Start the car with full hand throttle, 
and then drop it to normal idle a couple miles down the road.

The slower the idle, the more obvious the roughness.

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Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

If the rack damper bolt is screwed in too much, you will have hot 
(and maybe cold too) starting problems.


On 12/15/2010 6:32 PM, Allan Streib wrote:

My 300D (OM617) is not hard to start, but when cold the engine is
shaking a lot more than it used to.  The colder it is, the more it
vibrates.  Mostly goes away when warm, or when the throttle is off idle
at all.

Is this the problem that the the rack damper bold adjustment cures?  Or
is that for excessive shaking at hot idle?

Allan


--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
 95 E300, 94 S500, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic,
 91 350SDL, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro,
 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D,
http://www.okiebenz.com


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Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD

[Allan Streib]

My 300D (OM617) is not hard to start, but when cold the engine is
shaking a lot more than it used to.  The colder it is, the more it
vibrates.  Mostly goes away when warm, or when the throttle is off idle
at all.

Is this the problem that the the rack damper bold adjustment cures?  Or
is that for excessive shaking at hot idle?

Allan
-- 
1983 300D

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[MBZ] OT: Scale of the Universe

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

A new, interesting perspective of an old theme.

Use the blue square at the bottom of the figure to change scale.

http://uploads.ungrounded.net/525000/525347_scale_of_universe_ng.swf



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Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD

[Michael Esh]

Actually i did have a hard starting problem when hot and I still have the 
problem.  Now that it is cold again (michigan) the problem has become less of 
an issue.  I have replaced all hoses and lines as well as installing a new lift 
pump from Rusty and the check valve on the engine side of the injection pump.  
Mike


On Dec 15, 2010, at 7:01 PM, Rick Knoble wrote:

> 
> Didn't someone (Micheal Esh perhaps) have a starting problem and just 
> recently 
> figured out the cause of his HOT start problem?  
> 
> Rick
> 
>> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 16:02:44 -0600
>> From: b...@mts.net
>> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
>> 
>> Didn't someone suggest air leakage into the fuel lines? That sounds like 
>> it may not be getting fuel - assuming it has reasonable compression etc.
>> 
>> Randy who is no expert on diesels
>> 
>> On 15/12/2010 3:56 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:
>>> Another question.  The "good" 300TD starts without glowing when the
>>> engine is warm.  The "bad" 85 300TD always needs to be glowed before
>>> starting, regardless of engine temperature.  It starts quicker when
>>> it's warm, but I still need to glow it or it cranks a lot.  Does this
>>> observation mean the glow plugs aren't the problem?
> 
> 
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> 
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> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


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Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD

[Rick Knoble]

Didn't someone (Micheal Esh perhaps) have a starting problem and just recently 
figured out the cause of his HOT start problem?  

Rick

> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 16:02:44 -0600
> From: b...@mts.net
> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
> 
> Didn't someone suggest air leakage into the fuel lines? That sounds like 
> it may not be getting fuel - assuming it has reasonable compression etc.
> 
> Randy who is no expert on diesels
> 
> On 15/12/2010 3:56 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:
> > Another question.  The "good" 300TD starts without glowing when the
> > engine is warm.  The "bad" 85 300TD always needs to be glowed before
> > starting, regardless of engine temperature.  It starts quicker when
> > it's warm, but I still need to glow it or it cranks a lot.  Does this
> > observation mean the glow plugs aren't the problem?

  
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Re: [MBZ] hose heater versus block heater?!!

[R A Bennell]

You will  find other possible solutions  out there if you look.

I remember external strip heaters were avaliable in the 70's. The fellow 
who parked beside me had one on a Honda Accord in about 1978. I remember 
him cleaning it off in the summer as some oil had got on it and it 
smoked when hot.


There are also magnetic heaters that you might be able to temporarily 
use by sticking them onto the side of the block or onto the oilpan from 
underneath. Would need to be removed when you drive it.


Even hanging a trouble light under the hood with the light on will 
produce enough heat to help.


Or there are electric battery blankets that will help by keeping the 
starter spinning faster.


All temporary solutions until you are able to install the proper thing 
once the weather warms enough to make it easier.


Randy



On 15/12/2010 10:27 AM, Chris N John wrote:

Hi, everyone
We too are having issues with our car starting this winter (1980 300 
SD). Hubbie put about 4 different hose heaters on it last winter. The 
last one finally worked once or twice. (We won't mention the local car 
parts store) We tried it again in November and it seemed to be doing 
fine and then the morning we had appointments to keep 80 miles away 
and temp was -20, guess what? Yep-- it didn't work at all. We made it 
to appointments, but used up our "easy" travel margin of time for sure!!
So, my question is: the block heaters sound more dependable and 
efficient but hubbie is concerned about problems installing in the old 
car. He thinks it will be hard to seal up after removing the old plug, 
which seems to be another big concern, too. Any feedback from you 
experts? Should we keep trying the hose heaters, and is there one that 
really works long term?? Thanks for advice!
Wishing you all a Wonderful Christmas Season and a Great New Year to 
come, Christy

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Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD

[R A Bennell]

Didn't someone suggest air leakage into the fuel lines? That sounds like 
it may not be getting fuel - assuming it has reasonable compression etc.


Randy who is no expert on diesels

On 15/12/2010 3:56 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:

Another question.  The "good" 300TD starts without glowing when the
engine is warm.  The "bad" 85 300TD always needs to be glowed before
starting, regardless of engine temperature.  It starts quicker when
it's warm, but I still need to glow it or it cranks a lot.  Does this
observation mean the glow plugs aren't the problem?

On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 9:12 AM, Rich Thomas
  wrote:

Yeah that sounds right.  I forget these things, maybe I should use a
notebook or something when doing these jobs.  But those gearwrenches are
great tools.

--R

On 12/14/2010 10:35 AM, John Reames wrote:

An 8mm gearwrench for the electrical connections, and a 10mm for the plugs
proper.

--
John W Reames
jwrea...@comcast.net
Home: +14106646986
Mobile: +14437915905

On Dec 14, 2010, at 10:28, Rich
Thomaswrote:


Might want to check your glow plugs, relay, and CHECK YOUR FUSE.  The 84
SD was getting a bit balky, even in warm weather, I replaced a couple of
glow plugs and the relay (which did not appear to be relaying very well for
reasons unclear), and it fires right up (though I have not yet tried it
today after last night way down in the 20s).  I CHANGED THE FUSE too, first
thing, but it was OK so that was not the issue.  Sort of minimal stuff that
you should probably check as a matter of course, but makes quite the
difference.

Note:  changing the glow plugs really benefits from a 10mm (I think)
gearwrench as that is about the only thing I could fit in there easily to
loosen/tighten everything.  The relay is easy to change, make sure you
disconnect the battery first.

--R

On 12/14/2010 10:14 AM, andrew strasfogel wrote:

This is a new problem for me.  The 1985 300TD recently had a valve
adjustment so I wasn't too worried about it starting in the cold.
Well, I should have been!  Yesterday, with a temp of around 23 F.,
after sitting in the street for a mere 6 hours the 300TD barely
started up without running down the (relatively new) battery.  I had
to key the glow cycle three times for an additional 10-20 seconds each
time before it fired up.

So how do I diagnose whether this is bad glow plugs or low
compression?  Or could it be something else?  The car never fires up
quickly in the best of circumstances, compared to the '83 turbo diesel
wagon, although it has adequate power and acceleration.  Fuel is
clean, too (I recently changed the tank strainer and other filters).

As always, TIA.

Andrew
1983 300TD starts like a 300TE
1985 300TD needs to  be wound up

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Re: [MBZ] hose heater versus block heater?!!

[Fmiser]

> Dieselhead wrote:

> You need a hoist and the starter will have to come out.

> It is possible to raise the hood to vertical and remove the
> manifolds and do it from above.

I did mine from the top. With the turbo, start, head and
manifold still attached.

I wish I had photos or video of the events - but I don't.

I recall I did use a piece of 3/4" hex stock and a 3/4" socket
as the wrench.  And a long cheater bar.

--  Philip

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Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD

[andrew strasfogel]

Another question.  The "good" 300TD starts without glowing when the
engine is warm.  The "bad" 85 300TD always needs to be glowed before
starting, regardless of engine temperature.  It starts quicker when
it's warm, but I still need to glow it or it cranks a lot.  Does this
observation mean the glow plugs aren't the problem?

On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 9:12 AM, Rich Thomas
 wrote:
> Yeah that sounds right.  I forget these things, maybe I should use a
> notebook or something when doing these jobs.  But those gearwrenches are
> great tools.
>
> --R
>
> On 12/14/2010 10:35 AM, John Reames wrote:
>>
>> An 8mm gearwrench for the electrical connections, and a 10mm for the plugs
>> proper.
>>
>> --
>> John W Reames
>> jwrea...@comcast.net
>> Home: +14106646986
>> Mobile: +14437915905
>>
>> On Dec 14, 2010, at 10:28, Rich
>> Thomas  wrote:
>>
>>> Might want to check your glow plugs, relay, and CHECK YOUR FUSE.  The 84
>>> SD was getting a bit balky, even in warm weather, I replaced a couple of
>>> glow plugs and the relay (which did not appear to be relaying very well for
>>> reasons unclear), and it fires right up (though I have not yet tried it
>>> today after last night way down in the 20s).  I CHANGED THE FUSE too, first
>>> thing, but it was OK so that was not the issue.  Sort of minimal stuff that
>>> you should probably check as a matter of course, but makes quite the
>>> difference.
>>>
>>> Note:  changing the glow plugs really benefits from a 10mm (I think)
>>> gearwrench as that is about the only thing I could fit in there easily to
>>> loosen/tighten everything.  The relay is easy to change, make sure you
>>> disconnect the battery first.
>>>
>>> --R
>>>
>>> On 12/14/2010 10:14 AM, andrew strasfogel wrote:

 This is a new problem for me.  The 1985 300TD recently had a valve
 adjustment so I wasn't too worried about it starting in the cold.
 Well, I should have been!  Yesterday, with a temp of around 23 F.,
 after sitting in the street for a mere 6 hours the 300TD barely
 started up without running down the (relatively new) battery.  I had
 to key the glow cycle three times for an additional 10-20 seconds each
 time before it fired up.

 So how do I diagnose whether this is bad glow plugs or low
 compression?  Or could it be something else?  The car never fires up
 quickly in the best of circumstances, compared to the '83 turbo diesel
 wagon, although it has adequate power and acceleration.  Fuel is
 clean, too (I recently changed the tank strainer and other filters).

 As always, TIA.

 Andrew
 1983 300TD starts like a 300TE
 1985 300TD needs to  be wound up

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>>>
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>>
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>>
>
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Re: [MBZ] hose heater versus block heater?!!

[Dieselhead]

What everyone else said is right.

You can get a block heater from Rusty at 800 741 5252.  They are 
cheaper than the hose kind and take 1/2 the electricity.


In the winter, I would opt for paying some shop (preferably with MB 
Diesel experience) to install it.  You need a hoist and the starter 
will have to come out.   Any problems become the shop's problem.   It 
is possible to raise the hood to vertical and remove the manifolds 
and do it from above.   But topside works better with the head 
removed to get access to the plug without extensions.  Flame wrenches 
and air chisels and big chisels with big hammers are all possible 
assistants.





Hi, everyone
We too are having issues with our car starting this winter (1980 300 
SD). Hubbie put about 4 different hose heaters on it last winter. 
The last one finally worked once or twice. (We won't mention the 
local car parts store) We tried it again in November and it seemed 
to be doing fine and then the morning we had appointments to keep 80 
miles away and temp was -20, guess what? Yep-- it didn't work at 
all. We made it to appointments, but used up our "easy" travel 
margin of time for sure!!
So, my question is: the block heaters sound more dependable and 
efficient but hubbie is concerned about problems installing in the 
old car. He thinks it will be hard to seal up after removing the old 
plug, which seems to be another big concern, too. Any feedback from 
you experts? Should we keep trying the hose heaters, and is there 
one that really works long term?? Thanks for advice!
Wishing you all a Wonderful Christmas Season and a Great New Year to 
come, Christy

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Re: [MBZ] Headlights Q; dual-filament H3?

[ernest breakfield]

hi Jim!

just in case you didn't already know, Daniel Stern (love him or 
hate him) offers H4 lamps in a variety of wattage combination on an R2 
base,... for $11-14 for standard wattage, it might not be worth the 
trouble to bother with brewing your own.;-)


(i couldn't get your links below to work for me.)

WRT the OP, he said that his lamps were labeled "H3", not H4.
H3 and H4 are both bulb type specifications, not related to point 
of use. for example, you can order H4 lamps for your car with lenses 
designed to be used while driving on either side of the road.



cheers!
e


On 15/Dec/10 06:41, Jim Cathey wrote:
I think people might be mixing up R2 (dual-filament) with H3 (single 
filament, usually a fog or "driving lamp").


The Frankenheap and my Unimog both have R2 lamps.  As they burn
out I've been desoldering the base flanges and modifying them
to accept an H4 in the center.  The assembly then fits into the
R2's site, the filaments end up very close to the R2's plane,
and the result works well and is brighter.  (I believe the H4
was a derivative of the R2 and shared the same filament geometry.)
See:

http://userweb.windwireless.net/~jimc/frankenheap.html#h4

Ditto on the weird 10086 lamps used for the heap's fogs.
I break off the glass and solder an H3 to the base.  See:

http://userweb.windwireless.net/~jimc/frankenheap.html#fog10086

Regarding the original question, I don't see why that because
the lens of the lamp assembly has an H4 molded into it that one
has to assume that this is the bulb specifier.  Isn't the lamp
lens customized for lighting patterns in different countries?
Maybe 4 was the US pattern?

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] hose heater versus block heater?!!

[Fmiser]

> Chris N John wrote:

> So, my question is: the block heaters sound more
> dependable and efficient

Yup. Definitely. 

> but hubbie is concerned about
> problems installing in the old car. He thinks it will be hard
> to seal up after removing the old plug, which seems to be
> another big concern, too.

Probably not.  The hard part is getting the empty block plug
out.  Put the block heater in is easy.

> Any feedback from you experts? Should we keep trying the hose
> heaters, and is there one that really works long term??

The block heater heats what needs to be heated.  It really is
the best way...  I have heard there have been incidents of a
block cracking when removing the old plug - but are they trust
worthy reports?

I have install two on W123s.  Both were OM617 engines.  Both
were _tough_ to get the plug out.  On neither one did I have any
problem with it leaking.

--  Philip

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Re: [MBZ] hose heater versus block heater?!!

[Max Dillon]

That reminds me - on my '87 wagon, the cordless block heater had a plastic 
cover 
over it making it rather blend in with the block.  Once I felt it, I knew what 
it was.

-Max





From: Walt Zarnoch 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Sent: Wed, December 15, 2010 12:38:23 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] hose heater versus block heater?!!

Me jumping on a 5 foot breaker bar on says, if the block comes with it, the
block was no good to begin with.

I transfered mine from a 2.4 to the 3.0 with both engines out, it just takes
time and a willingness to not listen to that "something's going to break..."
feeling for once. If you have the engine in the car, as you do, it should go
easier.

Check for the heater first, depending on the year/version, they can look
quite like a freeze plug at first glance, and can be overlooked easily.

Walt
On Dec 15, 2010 12:20 PM, "Mitch Haley"  wrote:
>
> Difficult to install? Not if you have a hoist and a 8' long wrench.
> Difficult to seal? Not unless a big piece of the engine block comes out
with the
> old plug when you try to unscrew it. (has this ever happened, or is it
something
> we irrationally worry about when the torque goes north of 500 ft-lb?)
>
> Mitch.
>
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Re: [MBZ] hose heater versus block heater?!!

[Walt Zarnoch]

Me jumping on a 5 foot breaker bar on says, if the block comes with it, the
block was no good to begin with.

I transfered mine from a 2.4 to the 3.0 with both engines out, it just takes
time and a willingness to not listen to that "something's going to break..."
feeling for once. If you have the engine in the car, as you do, it should go
easier.

Check for the heater first, depending on the year/version, they can look
quite like a freeze plug at first glance, and can be overlooked easily.

Walt
 On Dec 15, 2010 12:20 PM, "Mitch Haley"  wrote:
>
> Difficult to install? Not if you have a hoist and a 8' long wrench.
> Difficult to seal? Not unless a big piece of the engine block comes out
with the
> old plug when you try to unscrew it. (has this ever happened, or is it
something
> we irrationally worry about when the torque goes north of 500 ft-lb?)
>
> Mitch.
>
> ___
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
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Re: [MBZ] hose heater versus block heater?!!

[Mitch Haley]

Difficult to install? Not if you have a hoist and a 8' long wrench.
Difficult to seal? Not unless a big piece of the engine block comes out with the 
old plug when you try to unscrew it. (has this ever happened, or is it something 
we irrationally worry about when the torque goes north of 500 ft-lb?)


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] hose heater versus block heater?!!

[Max Dillon]

The block heater should seal up just fine - I don't think I've ever heard of 
one 
leaking.  Have you checked to make sure it's not already there?  Many times 
they 
were installed from the factory, but no cord was included; original owner 
received a coupon for the cord at purchase.  Block heater will be on the right 
side of the block, under the exhaust manifold but above the engine mount, and 
can be pretty difficult to reach let alone see.  As you can imagine, if it's 
not 
present it will also be difficult to install.

-Max





From: Chris N John 
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Wed, December 15, 2010 11:27:29 AM
Subject: [MBZ] hose heater versus block heater?!!

Hi, everyone
We too are having issues with our car starting this winter (1980 300 SD). 
Hubbie 
put about 4 different hose heaters on it last winter. The last one finally 
worked once or twice. (We won't mention the local car parts store) We tried it 
again in November and it seemed to be doing fine and then the morning we had 
appointments to keep 80 miles away and temp was -20, guess what? Yep-- it 
didn't 
work at all. We made it to appointments, but used up our "easy" travel margin 
of 
time for sure!!
So, my question is: the block heaters sound more dependable and efficient but 
hubbie is concerned about problems installing in the old car. He thinks it will 
be hard to seal up after removing the old plug, which seems to be another big 
concern, too. Any feedback from you experts? Should we keep trying the hose 
heaters, and is there one that really works long term?? Thanks for advice!
Wishing you all a Wonderful Christmas Season and a Great New Year to come, 
Christy
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[MBZ] hose heater versus block heater?!!

[Chris N John]

Hi, everyone
We too are having issues with our car starting this winter (1980 300 
SD). Hubbie put about 4 different hose heaters on it last winter. The 
last one finally worked once or twice. (We won't mention the local car 
parts store) We tried it again in November and it seemed to be doing 
fine and then the morning we had appointments to keep 80 miles away and 
temp was -20, guess what? Yep-- it didn't work at all. We made it to 
appointments, but used up our "easy" travel margin of time for sure!!
So, my question is: the block heaters sound more dependable and 
efficient but hubbie is concerned about problems installing in the old 
car. He thinks it will be hard to seal up after removing the old plug, 
which seems to be another big concern, too. Any feedback from you 
experts? Should we keep trying the hose heaters, and is there one that 
really works long term?? Thanks for advice!
Wishing you all a Wonderful Christmas Season and a Great New Year to 
come, Christy

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Re: [MBZ] Headlights Q; dual-filament H3?

[Jim Cathey]

I think people might be mixing up R2 (dual-filament) with H3 (single 
filament, usually a fog or "driving lamp").


The Frankenheap and my Unimog both have R2 lamps.  As they burn
out I've been desoldering the base flanges and modifying them
to accept an H4 in the center.  The assembly then fits into the
R2's site, the filaments end up very close to the R2's plane,
and the result works well and is brighter.  (I believe the H4
was a derivative of the R2 and shared the same filament geometry.)
See:

http://userweb.windwireless.net/~jimc/frankenheap.html#h4

Ditto on the weird 10086 lamps used for the heap's fogs.
I break off the glass and solder an H3 to the base.  See:

http://userweb.windwireless.net/~jimc/frankenheap.html#fog10086

Regarding the original question, I don't see why that because
the lens of the lamp assembly has an H4 molded into it that one
has to assume that this is the bulb specifier.  Isn't the lamp
lens customized for lighting patterns in different countries?
Maybe 4 was the US pattern?

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD

[Rich Thomas]

Yeah that sounds right.  I forget these things, maybe I should use a 
notebook or something when doing these jobs.  But those gearwrenches are 
great tools.


--R

On 12/14/2010 10:35 AM, John Reames wrote:

An 8mm gearwrench for the electrical connections, and a 10mm for the plugs 
proper.

--
John W Reames
jwrea...@comcast.net
Home: +14106646986
Mobile: +14437915905

On Dec 14, 2010, at 10:28, Rich Thomas  
wrote:


Might want to check your glow plugs, relay, and CHECK YOUR FUSE.  The 84 SD was 
getting a bit balky, even in warm weather, I replaced a couple of glow plugs 
and the relay (which did not appear to be relaying very well for reasons 
unclear), and it fires right up (though I have not yet tried it today after 
last night way down in the 20s).  I CHANGED THE FUSE too, first thing, but it 
was OK so that was not the issue.  Sort of minimal stuff that you should 
probably check as a matter of course, but makes quite the difference.

Note:  changing the glow plugs really benefits from a 10mm (I think) gearwrench 
as that is about the only thing I could fit in there easily to loosen/tighten 
everything.  The relay is easy to change, make sure you disconnect the battery 
first.

--R

On 12/14/2010 10:14 AM, andrew strasfogel wrote:

This is a new problem for me.  The 1985 300TD recently had a valve
adjustment so I wasn't too worried about it starting in the cold.
Well, I should have been!  Yesterday, with a temp of around 23 F.,
after sitting in the street for a mere 6 hours the 300TD barely
started up without running down the (relatively new) battery.  I had
to key the glow cycle three times for an additional 10-20 seconds each
time before it fired up.

So how do I diagnose whether this is bad glow plugs or low
compression?  Or could it be something else?  The car never fires up
quickly in the best of circumstances, compared to the '83 turbo diesel
wagon, although it has adequate power and acceleration.  Fuel is
clean, too (I recently changed the tank strainer and other filters).

As always, TIA.

Andrew
1983 300TD starts like a 300TE
1985 300TD needs to  be wound up

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Re: [MBZ] Headlights Q; dual-filament H3?

[David Bruckmann]

I think people might be mixing up R2 (dual-filament) with H3 (single filament, 
usually a fog or "driving lamp"). 

The H4 was the first and remains the only dual-filament halogen (non 
sealed-beam) headlamp bulb, introduced in Europe in 1971.

Before the H4, basically all dual-filament lamps used R2 (otherwise known as a 
"bilux"), a non-halogen dual-filament bulb introduced in the 1920s and used 
into the 1980s, well after the H4 was released.

In fact, even the (Euro) W123 originally came with Bilux bulbs. H4 was an 
optional extra and/or included only on higher-spec six-cylinder models. Ditto 
for the W115, which had an H4 option on later models. The electrical connector 
for R2 and H4 is the same pin configuration, but the bulb base is different

One thing is for sure: H3 bulbs are mono-filament and always have been, just 
like H1 and H2.

For an exhaustive list of bulbs and their characteristics:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_lamp_types

D.  


>> On 13/Dec/10 13:58, Dieselhead wrote:
>> 
>>> Not so.  I can show you h3 headlights with hi-low.  The /5 BMWs all 
>>> came out with H3 headlights.  The /6 series came out with the h4. 
>>> Come here and I will show you the original H-3 hi-low headlight from 
>>> my BMW.  I had Lucas H3s in my 200D for a short while.  When the H4s 
>>> came out, I bought the Bosch H-4s and still have them. H3 is only an 
>>> older technology.
> 
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