Re: [MBZ] OT Cheap bearings and jobs

[Walt Zarnoch]

I was saying that, given time, we might see Chinese stuff rise to an
acceptable quality standard.

Time is the key word.

Walt

On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 2:21 AM, Alex Chamberlain
 wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 8:11 PM, Walt Zarnoch  wrote:
>> Remember when Japanese cars were crap?
>> Remember when Korean cars were crap?
>>
>
> Sure I do.  But David G., the original poster, was talking about an
> imported bearing that was cheaper by a factor of five.  That part
> wasn't made in Japan or Korea.  Prices like that only come out of the
> rigged Chinese economic system of slave labor, state-sanctioned
> environmentally ruinous raw materials production, and artificially
> depressed currency.  It will be a very long time before things change
> enough that we will be looking back and saying, "Remember when Chinese
> cars were crap?"
>
> Alex
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT Cheap bearings and jobs

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 8:11 PM, Walt Zarnoch  wrote:
> Remember when Japanese cars were crap?
> Remember when Korean cars were crap?
>

Sure I do.  But David G., the original poster, was talking about an
imported bearing that was cheaper by a factor of five.  That part
wasn't made in Japan or Korea.  Prices like that only come out of the
rigged Chinese economic system of slave labor, state-sanctioned
environmentally ruinous raw materials production, and artificially
depressed currency.  It will be a very long time before things change
enough that we will be looking back and saying, "Remember when Chinese
cars were crap?"

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] Cruising the hood in Londonstan

[Gerry Archer]

Hendrik & Fay wrote:

Any of you thinking of going to ole blighty for a spot of tea, better
pack some heat!!


Friend moved to London for a job; got a nice apartment in a middle class 
section.

He's been there a year and only been beaten up by the yobs twice.
He did have to go to the emergency room after one beating, however.
Gerry
'83 300D
'83 240D 



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Re: [MBZ] Compression Tester for Small Engines (Harbor Freight)

[OK Don]

I'm guessing that the volume of the tester is far greater in proportion to
the displacement of the cylinder in the small engine. You'd need to crank it
considerable to build up pressure to read - crank till the needle stops
going up.

>From what I've heard/read, ethonol in the gas could be the cause of your
small engine issues.

On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 11:06 PM, Jerry Herrman  wrote:

> Each of my lawnmowers and edgers has become increasingly hard to start,
> followed by poor running. Using You Tube tutorials, I have been studying how
> to clean the various carburetors. I decided that at $19, I could afford to
> purchase a HF compression tester to rule out poor compression, and to -you
> know - play with a new toy. I was told that a good reading is about 60 lbs.I
> was surprised when I screwed it into one of these small engines and found
> that it did not register. Ditto for three more single cylinder small
> engines. Several months ago, I had  borrowed a professional instrument to
> check the compression on the 91 Volvo engine, which registered a reading of
> 185 lbs. in each cylinder. Thinking the HF tool might be defective, I tried
> in #1 cylinder of the Volvo. It gave a reading of 160. Not sure what to make
> of all this.
> Anyone have experience with this instrument? Here is the reference:
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/quick-connect-compression-tester-95187.html
>
> Should I expect to get a reading out of the lawnmower engines? I did not
> introduce oil into the cylinders. Should I? If I do, will that cause oil to
> get oil into the instrument making it non-returnable?
>
> Here is another HF tester for $19, different from the one I bought, not
> sure what the difference is, other than it has the old fashioned "hold it in
> as tight as you can" rubber fittings to push against the spark plug hole, in
> addition to the screw in types and sizes.
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/compression-test-kit-66216.html
>
> Another thing I did not like was having no way to tighten the piece that
> screws into the hole to assure a tight fit. Curiously, the OTHER end  of the
> flexible hose has a knurled piece, just where you wouldn't need it (it has a
> qwik connect at this end). Maybe that's why they are $19.
> Can someone suggest a good yet inexpensive instrument that will have only
> occasional use?
>
> Jerry
> 82 240D
> Lotta small engines
>



-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
1992 300D 2.5T
1990 300D 2.5T
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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[MBZ] Compression Tester for Small Engines (Harbor Freight)

[Jerry Herrman]

Each of my lawnmowers and edgers has become increasingly hard to start, 
followed by poor running. Using You Tube tutorials, I have been studying how to 
clean the various carburetors. I decided that at $19, I could afford to 
purchase a HF compression tester to rule out poor compression, and to -you know 
- play with a new toy. I was told that a good reading is about 60 lbs.I was 
surprised when I screwed it into one of these small engines and found that it 
did not register. Ditto for three more single cylinder small engines. Several 
months ago, I had  borrowed a professional instrument to check the compression 
on the 91 Volvo engine, which registered a reading of 185 lbs. in each 
cylinder. Thinking the HF tool might be defective, I tried in #1 cylinder of 
the Volvo. It gave a reading of 160. Not sure what to make of all this.
Anyone have experience with this instrument? Here is the reference: 

http://www.harborfreight.com/quick-connect-compression-tester-95187.html

Should I expect to get a reading out of the lawnmower engines? I did not 
introduce oil into the cylinders. Should I? If I do, will that cause oil to get 
oil into the instrument making it non-returnable?

Here is another HF tester for $19, different from the one I bought, not sure 
what the difference is, other than it has the old fashioned "hold it in as 
tight as you can" rubber fittings to push against the spark plug hole, in 
addition to the screw in types and sizes.

http://www.harborfreight.com/compression-test-kit-66216.html

Another thing I did not like was having no way to tighten the piece that screws 
into the hole to assure a tight fit. Curiously, the OTHER end  of the flexible 
hose has a knurled piece, just where you wouldn't need it (it has a qwik 
connect at this end). Maybe that's why they are $19.
Can someone suggest a good yet inexpensive instrument that will have only 
occasional use?

Jerry 
82 240D
Lotta small engines



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Re: [MBZ] to 80 or to 81 the glow system

[OK Don]

I get the email version, after having tried the digest. Way to hard to read
the digests. I try to trim my responses to aviod mucking up the digest for
those who use them. I use gamil for this list - it sorts the emails by
subjest line, grouping most of them together, so I don't have to worry about
finding the last revelent post to figure what the "OK, thanks" was referring
to.

On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 3:44 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ah!But you re assuming those who chose the digest version rule the
> list.   I find it much more useful to get the messages as email. That way I
> can search by date, by sender, by subject or for a word anywhere.
>
> In the email mode, I appreciate having the prior posts in the email,
> because then if I have a question about some response, comment, or remark, I
> can just scroll down and find the post that was referred to.
>
> As a case in point, someone just subscribing would get this email and have
> no idea why the subject is about the glow system, yet refers only to email
> or digest.
>
> I contend that digest members who post the subject "Re: [MBZ] Mercedes
> Digest, Vol 69, Issue 156" are annoying and should be banned from posting.
>
>
> Dieselhead




-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
1992 300D 2.5T
1990 300D 2.5T
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] Non-MB repairs today

[MG]

Ah but not alone and seemingly doing better. I for one thank you. :-)

Manfred



Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2011 19:23:07 -0400
From: Max Dillon 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Non-MB repairs today


Max (flagrant violator of email protocol)
--

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Re: [MBZ] OT Cheap bearings and jobs

[Allan Streib]

Walt Zarnoch  writes:

> Now I'll take a Mitsubishi or a Hyundai over a Ford/GM/Chrysler...

I'll agree with you on the GM/Chrysler but I think current Ford products
compete with anyone's in the quality department.

Allan

-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] to 80 or to 81 the glow system

[MG]

Ah but if he was interested he could go to the archives and read 
all the previous posts to see why. The chances of someone new 
wondering about a previous post are not in my estimation enough 
of a reason to clutter up the list and archives with endless 
repetitions on the same messages when at the most only the last 
previous message or part of it that may be pertinent is more then 
enough and then there are the endless repetitions of the links 
from the ends of all the messages that have repeatedly been 
quoted. Make things easy for yourself and everyone else and turn 
off "Quote original message" if you don't want to clip your replies.
In any case it's not so much the digest vs. the single emails. On 
a dial up the longer the email the longer it takes to download. 
Doesn't matter if it's in digest form or single emails. Just 
because you have a fast connection doesn't mean everyone has 
access to one. That would come under consideration for others.


Manfred

Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 15:44:41 -0500
From: Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com>
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] to 80 or to 81 the glow system

Ah!But you re assuming those who chose the digest version rule
the list.   I find it much more useful to get the messages as email.
That way I can search by date, by sender, by subject or for a word
anywhere.

In the email mode, I appreciate having the prior posts in the email,
because then if I have a question about some response, comment, or
remark, I can just scroll down and find the post that was 
referred to.


As a case in point, someone just subscribing would get this email and
have no idea why the subject is about the glow system, yet refers
only to email or digest.

I contend that digest members who post the subject "Re: [MBZ]
Mercedes Digest, Vol 69, Issue 156" are annoying and should be banned
from posting.




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[MBZ] Brake Bleeder Question

[Jerry Herrman]

Grant, 

Thanks for the clarification. I was a bit confused, thinking of a "squeeze 
bulb" as one of those things we used to check the electrolyte in the battery, 
sorta like a turkey baster. Now I realize you mean the kind that is used to 
transfer fluidsfrom one end to the other.

Jerry
82 240D


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Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers

[Allan Streib]

"Greg Fiorentino"  writes:

> GE do make a good refrigerator though.

Mine isn't.

-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] OT Cheap bearings and jobs

[Hendrik & Fay]

Time will tell I suppose?
However it really depends on the application, if it is an easily 
replaceable bearing on a machine that is not required to be working, in 
other words no big deal if it breaks down, then you can cheap out on 
bearings.
However if downtime is a big issue than you should aim to install the 
highest quality components.


Hendrik
who is off to the hardware store to battle the girls over all the bargains

Alex Chamberlain wrote:

On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 8:50 AM, David & Kristin Gilmore
 wrote:
  

I have mixed feelings about all this.  I suppose in my own little way I
have contributed to the loss of local jobs.  But if the Asian countries can
make quality stuff this cheap I think we would be better off doing something
else.



You're assuming the quality is there.  Will the bearing hold up as
well as an American- or European-made one, or is the perceived quality
only superficial?  That's the million-dollar question.  The
cost-versus-quality trade-off with Far East-made parts and raw
materials is already, of course, a concern of business, and it's going
to become more of a concern of the consumer here as we start to see
cars from China and India (even though they may be disguised as Volvos
and Jaguars!).

Alex

  



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Re: [MBZ] OT Cheap bearings and jobs

[Walt Zarnoch]

Remember when Japanese cars were crap?
Remember when Korean cars were crap?

Now I'll take a Mitsubishi or a Hyundai over a Ford/GM/Chrysler...

Walt
On Sep 5, 2011 11:03 PM, "Alex Chamberlain"  wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 8:50 AM, David & Kristin Gilmore
>  wrote:
>> I have mixed feelings about all this.  I suppose in my own little way
I
>> have contributed to the loss of local jobs.  But if the Asian countries
can
>> make quality stuff this cheap I think we would be better off doing
something
>> else.
>
> You're assuming the quality is there. Will the bearing hold up as
> well as an American- or European-made one, or is the perceived quality
> only superficial? That's the million-dollar question. The
> cost-versus-quality trade-off with Far East-made parts and raw
> materials is already, of course, a concern of business, and it's going
> to become more of a concern of the consumer here as we start to see
> cars from China and India (even though they may be disguised as Volvos
> and Jaguars!).
>
> Alex
>
> ___
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Re: [MBZ] OT Cheap bearings and jobs

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 8:50 AM, David & Kristin Gilmore
 wrote:
>     I have mixed feelings about all this.  I suppose in my own little way I
> have contributed to the loss of local jobs.  But if the Asian countries can
> make quality stuff this cheap I think we would be better off doing something
> else.

You're assuming the quality is there.  Will the bearing hold up as
well as an American- or European-made one, or is the perceived quality
only superficial?  That's the million-dollar question.  The
cost-versus-quality trade-off with Far East-made parts and raw
materials is already, of course, a concern of business, and it's going
to become more of a concern of the consumer here as we start to see
cars from China and India (even though they may be disguised as Volvos
and Jaguars!).

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers

[Dan Penoff]

We made the rounds on Saturday, just to check everyone out. HH Gregg has a 
poorly informed salesperson who didn't know the products.

The big box stores (Lowes, Home Despot, Best Buy) were woefully inadequate, 
which was no surprise.

We met a saleswoman at Sears who has been doing this for 27 years. She 
obviously knew her stuff and gave all the right answers.

She was the one we came back to today. She put together several packages for us 
from different manufacturers and price matched every piece and documented it 
for us. Ultimately, we decided to go with the GE Profile pieces due to our 
experience with the line (our former home had GE Profile appliances.)

It took her nearly 20 minutes just to track down the dishwasher we wanted 
because GE was discontinuing a number of models and did not have all the 
replacements in the line.

Needless to say, the whole process took nearly 90 minutes, but we got the most 
competitive prices, too.

Dan


Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 5, 2011, at 10:42 PM, Rich Thomas  
wrote:

> Ah -- that is another point in buying appliances, whether cheap or not -- go 
> to a place where they get commissions, you can get a better deal from someone 
> who is hungry.
> 
> --R
> 
> On 9/5/11 10:37 PM, LWB250 wrote:
>> The salesperson busted her *ss for nearly 90 minutes putting it together for 
>> us.  She earned every penny of her commission.
>> 
>> Dan
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: '04 Suburban hard start

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 6:07 AM, Max Dillon  wrote:
> Your CEL is controlled by multi-trip logic, so the code is probably already
> captured and worth checking for.
>

Thanks Max, I didn't know that.  I hooked the code reader up and it
told me there were no codes stored, but at least now I know I'm
starting with a blank slate and can check it periodically to see if
one has triggered.

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers

[Rich Thomas]

Ah -- that is another point in buying appliances, whether cheap or not 
-- go to a place where they get commissions, you can get a better deal 
from someone who is hungry.


--R

On 9/5/11 10:37 PM, LWB250 wrote:

The salesperson busted her *ss for nearly 90 minutes putting it together for 
us.  She earned every penny of her commission.

Dan


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Re: [MBZ] Cruising the hood in Londonstan

[Greg Fiorentino]

I would prefer that they not use America this time!

Greg

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Max Dillon
Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2011 6:52 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cruising the hood in Londonstan

England simply needs to find a new penal colony to send these unpleasant
thugs away! Load up the prison ship and send them off, that solution worked
well for centuries

Max (may be a descendant of English thugs)
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

G Mann  wrote:

I'm lead to understand that packing heat in the Queens dominion is very much
against the law and will cause you all manner of trouble. Isn't this why
the good citizens were forced to defend themselves with bats and brooms in
the recent troubles in London?
I think such foolishness is why we had that little dustup back in 1776 what?

On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 4:29 AM, Mitch Haley  wrote:

> Mitch Haley wrote:!
>
>>
>>>
>> Funny think is,
>>
>
> Think? That'll teach me to email at 7 in the morning.
>
>
>_
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>
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>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] Cruising the hood in Londonstan

[Greg Fiorentino]

I think the correct USA term is suppressor, not silencer.

Greg, who just lets his shots ring out loud and clear.

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Mitch Haley
Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2011 4:22 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cruising the hood in Londonstan

Hendrik & Fay wrote:
> Any of you thinking of going to ole blighty for a spot of tea, better 
> pack some heat!!
> 

Funny think is, in England putting a moderator on the end of your barrel is 
considered the polite thing to do, so you can shoot without disturbing your 
neighbors' peace and quiet. In the USA, moderators (called silencers here)
are 
EVIL things, strictly controlled since 1934, shortly after the morons in 
Hollywood started making gangster movies.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers

[LWB250]

Just closed the deal at Sears today.  Bought a GE side by side fridge, 
convection range with warming drawer, microwave/range hood with convection and 
a dishwasher.  All the "Profile" line, therefore, qualifies for $500 rebate 
from GE.  Dropped $4k, $3.5k after rebate.  Sears researched every bit and 
matched the competitors plus another 10%.

The salesperson busted her *ss for nearly 90 minutes putting it together for 
us.  She earned every penny of her commission.

Dan



From: Greg Fiorentino 
To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' 
Sent: Monday, September 5, 2011 10:32 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers

GE do make a good refrigerator though.

Greg

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Allan Streib
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 8:13 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers

Rich Thomas  writes:

> The various vendors run these package deals wherein if you buy a
> stove, refrig, dishwasher, etc. all together you get like a mikanave
> for free, or some big discount or something.  I saw an ad in the paper
> the other day, I think it was for Kitchenaid stuff (I did not know
> they sold fridges but there you go), but GE and all the others have
> them now and then.   Check out an appliance dealer, sometimes you can
> work them for "display" models as the manufacturer restricts
> discounting, but if it is "used" they can knock some amount off the
> deal.

I would advise avoiding GE.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[LWB250]

The post king pin front suspension swap of KG bits to a Beetle chassis was 
pretty common.  As soon as a donor KG would come into the Pick 'n Pull these 
woudl be the first things to go...

Dan




From: MG 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Sent: Monday, September 5, 2011 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

Why not put the disk setup from a Karmann Ghia in the front and put the front 
cylinders and shoes on the rear brakes. I did that on an old 69 bug and got 
very good braking action. Almost too good as when it was wet the fronts would 
tend to lock up a bit before the rear under moderate braking but when it was 
dry the thing would stop on a dime.

Manfred


Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 13:33:24 -0400
From: Michael Canfield 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

No.  New performance shocks all around.  Coilovers in the rear and no weight
to speak of in the front to make it dive.  I actually can't get the brakes
to work well enough to induce divelol.


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Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers

[Greg Fiorentino]

GE do make a good refrigerator though.

Greg

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Allan Streib
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 8:13 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers

Rich Thomas  writes:

> The various vendors run these package deals wherein if you buy a
> stove, refrig, dishwasher, etc. all together you get like a mikanave
> for free, or some big discount or something.  I saw an ad in the paper
> the other day, I think it was for Kitchenaid stuff (I did not know
> they sold fridges but there you go), but GE and all the others have
> them now and then.   Check out an appliance dealer, sometimes you can
> work them for "display" models as the manufacturer restricts
> discounting, but if it is "used" they can knock some amount off the
> deal.

I would advise avoiding GE.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[MG]

Why not put the disk setup from a Karmann Ghia in the front and 
put the front cylinders and shoes on the rear brakes. I did that 
on an old 69 bug and got very good braking action. Almost too 
good as when it was wet the fronts would tend to lock up a bit 
before the rear under moderate braking but when it was dry the 
thing would stop on a dime.


Manfred


Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 13:33:24 -0400
From: Michael Canfield 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

No.  New performance shocks all around.  Coilovers in the rear 
and no weight
to speak of in the front to make it dive.  I actually can't get 
the brakes

to work well enough to induce divelol.


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Re: [MBZ] SECOND TRY: Kaleb, How much for a W124 Lug Wrench?

[Greg Fiorentino]

That breaker bar is one of the best deals at HF!

Greg

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Mitch Haley
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 3:04 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] SECOND TRY: Kaleb, How much for a W124 Lug Wrench?

Craig wrote:
> I have two W124s and one lug wrench.

One of these and I believe a 17mm deep socket are very handy to have in the
trunk:
http://www.harborfreight.com/12-drive-25-breaker-bar-67933.html

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Re: [MBZ] SECOND TRY: Kaleb, How much for a W124 Lug Wrench?

[Greg Fiorentino]

That breaker bar is one of the best deals at HF!

Greg

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of WILTON
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 3:12 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] SECOND TRY: Kaleb, How much for a W124 Lug Wrench?

Salvage yard?

BTW, when my '80 240D was totaled in Jun '95, I went to it in the wreck 
holding yard and took from it the original MB tool pouch and wheel covers. 
Tool pouch certainly came in handy few days later when I bought '91 350SDL 
with no tool pouch.  Wheel covers came in handy on utility trailer and to 
replace damaged ones on '81 300D bought from a friend 4 or 5 years later.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Craig" 
To: "mercedes" 
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 5:54 PM
Subject: [MBZ] SECOND TRY: Kaleb, How much for a W124 Lug Wrench?


>I have two W124s and one lug wrench.
>
>
> Craig
>
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Re: [MBZ] Non-MB repairs today

[Peter Frederick]

The ball joint receiver on a Dana 30 is forged, I believe.  Not a  
control arm at any rate, it's a solid axle.


A few seconds with a torch will heat it enough to let go.

I will NOT heat stamped control arms, they almost always go out of  
round.


Peter


On Sep 5, 2011, at 8:11 PM, Dieselhead wrote:

Tempering temperature run mostly between 350 and 400 F.  If the LCA  
has a temper, it will turn blue (no temper in the 450 to 500 range.  
400 to 450 is a range between tempered and annealed.




On Mon, 05 Sep 2011 20:00:37 -0400 Max Dillon  


wrote:

 Next visit to HF, pick up a non-contact thermometer. Then you  
can use a

 blue wrench to safely heat the arm without affecting the temper.


It would seem that if you heat it up enough to be more flexible  
that it

would also affect the temper.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[Mountain Man]

As is mentioned in the video, first step is to check reservoir for leaks.
On W123 best to purchase new rubber caps on the reservoir.  I didn't
once and made a mess.
Here is the USA distributor:
http://www.autoexpertproducts.com/eezibleed.htm
mao

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Re: [MBZ] Non-MB repairs today

[Dieselhead]

Tempering temperature run mostly between 350 and 400 F.  If the LCA 
has a temper, it will turn blue (no temper in the 450 to 500 range. 
400 to 450 is a range between tempered and annealed.





On Mon, 05 Sep 2011 20:00:37 -0400 Max Dillon 
wrote:


 Next visit to HF, pick up a non-contact thermometer. Then you can use a
 blue wrench to safely heat the arm without affecting the temper.


It would seem that if you heat it up enough to be more flexible that it
would also affect the temper.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Non-MB repairs today

[Peter Frederick]

Don't heat it enough to make the grease smoke and you are probably fine.

Or pack the ball joint in dry ice

Peter

On Sep 5, 2011, at 8:09 PM, Craig wrote:

On Mon, 5 Sep 2011 19:39:11 -0500 Peter Frederick  


wrote:


The point of the heat is to expand the socket the ball joint is
pressed into.


Yes, of course! Why didn't I think of that?



Up to about 500F isn't going to make any difference a few seconds of
heat will cause them to pop loose fairly easily.

More than that is trouble, as the parts will then soften and fatigue.


Oh, OK.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[Mountain Man]

Allan wrote:
> I honestly think there is some voodoo involved in bleeding and adjusting
> VW brakes.  Have you tried sacrificing a chicken under a full moon??

Here's a video of Eezibleed on an ancient VW:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz8t6ZkVSQM

Does anyone else use Eezibleed?
mao

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Re: [MBZ] Non-MB repairs today

[Craig]

On Mon, 5 Sep 2011 19:39:11 -0500 Peter Frederick 
wrote:

> The point of the heat is to expand the socket the ball joint is  
> pressed into.

Yes, of course! Why didn't I think of that?


> Up to about 500F isn't going to make any difference a few seconds of
> heat will cause them to pop loose fairly easily.
> 
> More than that is trouble, as the parts will then soften and fatigue.

Oh, OK.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Non-MB repairs today

[Peter Frederick]

The point of the heat is to expand the socket the ball joint is  
pressed into.  Up to about 500F isn't going to make any difference --  
a few seconds of heat will cause them to pop loose fairly easily.


More than that is trouble, as the parts will then soften and fatigue.

Peter

On Sep 5, 2011, at 7:26 PM, Craig wrote:

On Mon, 05 Sep 2011 20:00:37 -0400 Max Dillon  


wrote:

Next visit to HF, pick up a non-contact thermometer. Then you can  
use a

blue wrench to safely heat the arm without affecting the temper.


It would seem that if you heat it up enough to be more flexible  
that it

would also affect the temper.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Non-MB repairs today

[Craig]

On Mon, 05 Sep 2011 20:00:37 -0400 Max Dillon 
wrote:

> Next visit to HF, pick up a non-contact thermometer. Then you can use a
> blue wrench to safely heat the arm without affecting the temper. 

It would seem that if you heat it up enough to be more flexible that it
would also affect the temper.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Non-MB repairs today

[Max Dillon]

Next visit to HF, pick up a non-contact thermometer. Then you can use a blue 
wrench to safely heat the arm without affecting the temper. 

Max
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Peter Frederick  wrote:

The Harbor Freight tool was fine on that job, but it bent 
(repeatedly) on W126 ball joints. We will try the new tool on those 
this time, since we seem to do them a lot all of a sudden. Might 
even pay for the tool eventually.

Peter


On Sep 5, 2011, at 6:23 PM, Max Dillon wrote:

> When I did the ball joints on my 124 recently, I had a nice adapter 
> made by machinist for the HF press, and heated the joint/arm to 
> about 400 degrees; joints came right out.
>
> Max (flagrant violator of email protocol)
> -- 
> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
> Peter Frederick  wrote:
>
> Spent the afternoon working on a young friend's Jeep Cherokee.
> Couple years ago he was complaining it sometimes shimmyed really
> badly on the highway. Told him to bring it out, it needed the front
> end looked at in detail, but he took it to the local shop who told
> him the track rod (panhard rod) was probably bad and put a new
> steering damper on it.
>
> So a couple months ago, he said it was getting bad again, and I
> persuaded him to bring it out after I helped him change a radiator
> hose, so we could do the rest of the hoses (all bad, of course) and
> do an inspection.
>
> Sure enough, all the tie rods were shot, the one on the pitman arm
> was downright scary, bad ball joints, cupped tires from the 1/4" toe
> OUT dialed in somewhere along the line, and other things suspect,
> especially shocks.
>
> We did the right tie rod and pitman arm ends a month or so ago (big
> delay related to his ex girlfriend, etc), then came out today and we
> used my new Special Products ball joint too. Put in the tie rods we
> didn't get last time, the ball joints, and a new universal joint on
> the axle that I found was missing all the needles out of two caps.
>
> The ball joint tool worked great, although the special adapaters for
> the upper joint failed in use (too thin and too soft) -- that Dana 30
> has a slanted surface on one side and a special sleeve is nice to
> make the ball joint pull in properly. Old ones had about 1/4" up and
> down play, the Jeep was wandering all over the road, drives nice and
> straight now!
>
> The Special Products tool looks exactly like the Harbor Freight one,
> but cost $190 instead of $40. It also does NOT bend in use -- worked
> like a charm (muscle provided by the beefy youngster the Jeep belongs
> too). Took use about four hours all told, longer than it really
> should have since we had to make a run to the parts store for a new
> universal joint.
>
> Now I need to plan a day to replace the ball joints in both W124s --
> Mom's wagon has torn boots, and one of mine is squeaking on bumps, a
> sure sign of death. Easy with the tool!
>
> Peter
>
>_

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Re: [MBZ] Non-MB repairs today

[Dieselhead]

I paid the freight for Rusty's 126 press. last fall.  It works really 
well.  Slick.  It is very beefy.  The new lower  joints slid right in.


I managed the job on the 124 with the HF type tool, which BTW you can 
borrow from FLAPS.   made it work with the bushings in the kit to 
push the new joints in.


 The Harbor Freight tool was fine on that job, but it bent 
(repeatedly) on W126 ball joints.  We will try the new tool on those 
this time, since we seem to do them a lot all of a sudden.  Might 
even pay for the tool eventually.


Peter


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Re: [MBZ] Non-MB repairs today

[Peter Frederick]

 The Harbor Freight tool was fine on that job, but it bent  
(repeatedly) on W126 ball joints.  We will try the new tool on those  
this time, since we seem to do them a lot all of a sudden.  Might  
even pay for the tool eventually.


Peter


On Sep 5, 2011, at 6:23 PM, Max Dillon wrote:

When I did the ball joints on my 124 recently, I had a nice adapter  
made by machinist for the HF press, and heated the joint/arm to  
about 400 degrees; joints came right out.


Max (flagrant violator of email protocol)
--
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Peter Frederick  wrote:

Spent the afternoon working on a young friend's Jeep Cherokee.
Couple years ago he was complaining it sometimes shimmyed really
badly on the highway. Told him to bring it out, it needed the front
end looked at in detail, but he took it to the local shop who told
him the track rod (panhard rod) was probably bad and put a new
steering damper on it.

So a couple months ago, he said it was getting bad again, and I
persuaded him to bring it out after I helped him change a radiator
hose, so we could do the rest of the hoses (all bad, of course) and
do an inspection.

Sure enough, all the tie rods were shot, the one on the pitman arm
was downright scary, bad ball joints, cupped tires from the 1/4" toe
OUT dialed in somewhere along the line, and other things suspect,
especially shocks.

We did the right tie rod and pitman arm ends a month or so ago (big
delay related to his ex girlfriend, etc), then came out today and we
used my new Special Products ball joint too. Put in the tie rods we
didn't get last time, the ball joints, and a new universal joint on
the axle that I found was missing all the needles out of two caps.

The ball joint tool worked great, although the special adapaters for
the upper joint failed in use (too thin and too soft) -- that Dana 30
has a slanted surface on one side and a special sleeve is nice to
make the ball joint pull in properly. Old ones had about 1/4" up and
down play, the Jeep was wandering all over the road, drives nice and
straight now!

The Special Products tool looks exactly like the Harbor Freight one,
but cost $190 instead of $40. It also does NOT bend in use -- worked
like a charm (muscle provided by the beefy youngster the Jeep belongs
too). Took use about four hours all told, longer than it really
should have since we had to make a run to the parts store for a new
universal joint.

Now I need to plan a day to replace the ball joints in both W124s --
Mom's wagon has torn boots, and one of mine is squeaking on bumps, a
sure sign of death. Easy with the tool!

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] Non-MB repairs today

[Peter Frederick]

I certainly hope so!  He's a nice kid, I expect he'll be happy to.

Peter

On Sep 5, 2011, at 6:01 PM, Craig wrote:

On Mon, 5 Sep 2011 17:45:48 -0500 Peter Frederick  


wrote:


Now I need to plan a day to replace the ball joints in both W124s --
Mom's wagon has torn boots, and one of mine is squeaking on bumps, a
sure sign of death.  Easy with the tool!


And will you get help from, "beefy youngster the Jeep belongs to"?


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Non-MB repairs today

[Max Dillon]

When I did the ball joints on my 124 recently, I had a nice adapter made by 
machinist for the HF press, and heated the joint/arm to about 400 degrees; 
joints came right out.

Max (flagrant violator of email protocol)
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Peter Frederick  wrote:

Spent the afternoon working on a young friend's Jeep Cherokee. 
Couple years ago he was complaining it sometimes shimmyed really 
badly on the highway. Told him to bring it out, it needed the front 
end looked at in detail, but he took it to the local shop who told 
him the track rod (panhard rod) was probably bad and put a new 
steering damper on it.

So a couple months ago, he said it was getting bad again, and I 
persuaded him to bring it out after I helped him change a radiator 
hose, so we could do the rest of the hoses (all bad, of course) and 
do an inspection.

Sure enough, all the tie rods were shot, the one on the pitman arm 
was downright scary, bad ball joints, cupped tires from the 1/4" toe 
OUT dialed in somewhere along the line, and other things suspect, 
especially shocks.

We did the right tie rod and pitman arm ends a month or so ago (big 
delay related to his ex girlfriend, etc), then came out today and we 
used my new Special Products ball joint too. Put in the tie rods we 
didn't get last time, the ball joints, and a new universal joint on 
the axle that I found was missing all the needles out of two caps.

The ball joint tool worked great, although the special adapaters for 
the upper joint failed in use (too thin and too soft) -- that Dana 30 
has a slanted surface on one side and a special sleeve is nice to 
make the ball joint pull in properly. Old ones had about 1/4" up and 
down play, the Jeep was wandering all over the road, drives nice and 
straight now!

The Special Products tool looks exactly like the Harbor Freight one, 
but cost $190 instead of $40. It also does NOT bend in use -- worked 
like a charm (muscle provided by the beefy youngster the Jeep belongs 
too). Took use about four hours all told, longer than it really 
should have since we had to make a run to the parts store for a new 
universal joint.

Now I need to plan a day to replace the ball joints in both W124s -- 
Mom's wagon has torn boots, and one of mine is squeaking on bumps, a 
sure sign of death. Easy with the tool!

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] Non-MB repairs today

[Craig]

On Mon, 5 Sep 2011 17:45:48 -0500 Peter Frederick 
wrote:

> Now I need to plan a day to replace the ball joints in both W124s --  
> Mom's wagon has torn boots, and one of mine is squeaking on bumps, a  
> sure sign of death.  Easy with the tool!

And will you get help from, "beefy youngster the Jeep belongs to"?


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Non-MB repairs today

[Rich Thomas]

I had an 84 Cherokee that went through 3 track rods, they all broke at 
the top bolt where it attached to the frame (and was a total b to 
get at).  I got pretty good at changing them.


--R

On 9/5/11 6:45 PM, Peter Frederick wrote:
Spent the afternoon working on a young friend's Jeep Cherokee.  Couple 
years ago he was complaining it sometimes shimmyed really badly on the 
highway.  Told him to bring it out, it needed the front end looked at 
in detail, but he took it to the local shop who told him the track rod 
(panhard rod) was probably bad and put a new steering damper on it.


So a couple months ago, he said it was getting bad again, and I 
persuaded him to bring it out after I helped him change a radiator 
hose, so we could do the rest of the hoses (all bad, of course) and do 
an inspection.


Sure enough, all the tie rods were shot, the one on the pitman arm was 
downright scary, bad ball joints, cupped tires from the 1/4" toe OUT 
dialed in somewhere along the line, and other things suspect, 
especially shocks.


We did the right tie rod and pitman arm ends a month or so ago (big 
delay related to his ex girlfriend, etc), then came out today and we 
used my new Special Products ball joint too. Put in the tie rods we 
didn't get last time, the ball joints, and a new universal joint on 
the axle that I found was missing all the needles out of two caps.


The ball joint tool worked great, although the special adapaters for 
the upper joint failed in use (too thin and too soft) -- that Dana 30 
has a slanted surface on one side and a special sleeve is nice to make 
the ball joint pull in properly.  Old ones had about 1/4" up and down 
play, the Jeep was wandering all over the road, drives nice and 
straight now!


The Special Products tool looks exactly like the Harbor Freight one, 
but cost $190 instead of $40.  It also does NOT bend in use -- worked 
like a charm (muscle provided by the beefy youngster the Jeep belongs 
too).  Took use about four hours all told, longer than it really 
should have since we had to make a run to the parts store for a new 
universal joint.


Now I need to plan a day to replace the ball joints in both W124s -- 
Mom's wagon has torn boots, and one of mine is squeaking on bumps, a 
sure sign of death.  Easy with the tool!


Peter

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[MBZ] Non-MB repairs today

[Peter Frederick]

Spent the afternoon working on a young friend's Jeep Cherokee.   
Couple years ago he was complaining it sometimes shimmyed really  
badly on the highway.  Told him to bring it out, it needed the front  
end looked at in detail, but he took it to the local shop who told  
him the track rod (panhard rod) was probably bad and put a new  
steering damper on it.


So a couple months ago, he said it was getting bad again, and I  
persuaded him to bring it out after I helped him change a radiator  
hose, so we could do the rest of the hoses (all bad, of course) and  
do an inspection.


Sure enough, all the tie rods were shot, the one on the pitman arm  
was downright scary, bad ball joints, cupped tires from the 1/4" toe  
OUT dialed in somewhere along the line, and other things suspect,  
especially shocks.


We did the right tie rod and pitman arm ends a month or so ago (big  
delay related to his ex girlfriend, etc), then came out today and we  
used my new Special Products ball joint too. Put in the tie rods we  
didn't get last time, the ball joints, and a new universal joint on  
the axle that I found was missing all the needles out of two caps.


The ball joint tool worked great, although the special adapaters for  
the upper joint failed in use (too thin and too soft) -- that Dana 30  
has a slanted surface on one side and a special sleeve is nice to  
make the ball joint pull in properly.  Old ones had about 1/4" up and  
down play, the Jeep was wandering all over the road, drives nice and  
straight now!


The Special Products tool looks exactly like the Harbor Freight one,  
but cost $190 instead of $40.  It also does NOT bend in use -- worked  
like a charm (muscle provided by the beefy youngster the Jeep belongs  
too).  Took use about four hours all told, longer than it really  
should have since we had to make a run to the parts store for a new  
universal joint.


Now I need to plan a day to replace the ball joints in both W124s --  
Mom's wagon has torn boots, and one of mine is squeaking on bumps, a  
sure sign of death.  Easy with the tool!


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] to 80 or to 81 the glow system

[Craig]

On Mon, 5 Sep 2011 15:44:41 -0500 Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

> In the email mode, I appreciate having the prior posts in the email, 
> because then if I have a question about some response, comment, or 
> remark, I can just scroll down and find the post that was referred to.

But if your email client does threading, all you need to do is look up in
the thread; there is no reason to resend redundant information.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] to 80 or to 81 the glow system

[Dieselhead]

Ah!But you re assuming those who chose the digest version rule 
the list.   I find it much more useful to get the messages as email. 
That way I can search by date, by sender, by subject or for a word 
anywhere.


In the email mode, I appreciate having the prior posts in the email, 
because then if I have a question about some response, comment, or 
remark, I can just scroll down and find the post that was referred to.


As a case in point, someone just subscribing would get this email and 
have no idea why the subject is about the glow system, yet refers 
only to email or digest.


I contend that digest members who post the subject "Re: [MBZ] 
Mercedes Digest, Vol 69, Issue 156" are annoying and should be banned 
from posting.



Dieselhead

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Re: [MBZ] 36k acres

[G Mann]

Sh... it's the only escape I have from the sister of satan
ex ;))

On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 10:48 AM, Michael Canfield wrote:

> I think Grant has the TARDIS in one of his mines.
>
> Mike
> On Sep 5, 2011 12:57 PM, "G Mann"  wrote:
> > I have no idea... it's been a "relatively long time" since I've seen an
> > episode. ;))
> > Grant...
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Max Dillon  >wrote:
> >
> >> Grant, thanks, got it now. Is that show still broadcast?
> >>
> >> Max
> >> --
> >> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> >>
> >> G Mann  wrote:
> >>
> >> Max,
> >> Google "Tardis" and all will be revealed.
> >>
> >> A time travel challenge was thrown out... so we are "running the clock"
> on
> >> it.. pun intended.
> >>
> >> Later?
> >>
> >> Grant...
> >>
> >> On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 8:50 AM, Max Dillon  >> >wrote:
> >>
> >> > Ok, I'll bite, are all these strange references to some song, movie,
> or
> >> > show?
> >> >
> >> > Max
> >> > --
> >> > Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> >> >
> >> > Rich Thomas  wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I'm leaving tomorrow and will be there yesterday.
> >> >
> >> > --R
> >> >
> >> > On 9/5/11 1:08 AM, G Mann wrote:
> >> > > Ha if you got one that works.. bring it... anytime... ;))
> >> > >
> >> > > On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 9:09 PM, Rich Thomas<
> >> > > richthomas79td...@constructivity.net> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >> Coming by Tardis, sometime.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> --R
> >> > >>
> >> > >> On 9/2/11 11:37 PM, G Mann wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >>> Drop in... as in Delta Team 6 ? wink winkTry to discourage
> that
> >> > when
> >> > >>> possible.. hahaha..
> >> > >>> Rattlesnake repellent recommended.
> >> > >>> Bring ear plugs.. some days the silence is deafening.
> >> > >>> Once per lifetime on step 1 please [if at all].
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> Grant...
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 2:46 PM, Rich Thomas<
> >> > >>> richthomas79TD300@**constructivity.net<
> >> > richthomas79td...@constructivity.net>>
> >> > >>> wrote:
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> Cool (well, except for step 1). I might drop in on you someday.
> I'll
> >> >  ring
> >> >  ahead, and bring my own arsenal.
> >> > 
> >> >  --R
> >> > 
> >> >  On 9/2/11 1:10 AM, G Mann wrote:
> >> > 
> >> >  Rich,
> >> > > Short steps version.
> >> > > 1. Satanic ex wife, endless lawyers, done.
> >> > > 2. Designed and built a large commercial production facility,
> sold
> >> it
> >> > to
> >> > > investment partners at a happy price.
> >> > > 3. Desire for peace and quiet and love of open spaces found the
> >> > place.
> >> > > 4. It has what I want, I have what it needs. Home sweet home.
> >> > >
> >> > > Grant...
> >> > >
> >> > >_
> >>
> >> > _
> >> >  http://www.okiebenz.com
> >> >  For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> >> >  To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/<;
> >> > http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/>;;
> >> >   >> http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >> > >>;
> >> > 
> >> >  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> > 
> >> >
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >> <;
> >> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com
> >;;
> >> >   >> okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/**mercedes_okiebenz.com<;
> >> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com>;;
> >> > _
> >>
> >> > **_
> >> > >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >> > >>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> >> > >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/<;
> >> > http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/>;;
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> > >>>
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com
> >> <;
> >> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com>;;
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>_
> >>
> >> > **_
> >> > >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >> > >> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> >> > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/<;
> >> > http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/>;;
> >> > >>
> >> > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> > >>
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com
> <;
> >> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com>;;
> >> > >>
> >> > >_
> >>
> >> >
> >> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >> > > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> >> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >> > >
> >> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman

Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder Questions

[G Mann]

Jerry,

I'll try to address your questions in as orderly fashion as possible.

1. Attach the squeeze bulb [or vacuum pump] to the nipple via a slip fit
rubber or plastic line.  It can be the cheap stuff ,, throw it away after
one use if you want. It just needs enough wall strength to withstand some
vacuum without collapse.  I like clear tubing because I can see what's
coming out of the nipple in real time.

2. The function of the vacuum out is to remove debris and old fluid in each
line.  If you wish you could add clean fluid to the master and vacuum more
to "flush" while you are hooked up anyway. No loss in doing that except a
bit of new fluid.

3. I evacuate each line from the nipple,, "while" emptying the master
cylinder.. sort of an "all in one operation".

4. The drying and wipe down after using brake clean is just a precaution to
ensure I have a "clean as possible" system with no foreign materials.

5. The hand pump oiler is actually well lubricated by the brake fluid, so it
needs nothing else.  They are surprisingly  well built and long lasting
I prefer the metal ones over plastic simply because they seem to be better
quality and pump with larger volume. Your choice on that however.  I use a
small spring hose clamp [like you find on fuel lines] to secure the line to
the spigot. Press fit to the nipple is sufficient.

6. If you have any contaminant in the lines it will show up in the master
cylinder as you pump fluid backwards.. if the fluid doesn't look clean and
new... vacuum again and flush the system... my experience is,, it will come
up clean first time.

HTH,

Grant...

On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 11:40 AM, Jerry Herrman  wrote:

> Grant,
>
> I am intrigued by your "reverse" method of brake bleeding. Got a couple of
> questions.
>
> Item #2.  a. Not sure exactly how you recommend the squeeze bulb be
> attached to the nipple in such a way as to evacuate the old fluid.
>
>  b.  If one end of the exit hose is in the receiver container,
> what is the other end attached to?
>  c.  Do you evacuate each line from the nipple at this stage,
> or do you first empty the master cylinder?
>
> item #4   a. If you use Brake Kleen in the master cylinder, do you need to
> be concerned that some of it may get down into the lines?
>
> item #5.  a. Do you need to be concerned that the metal hand pump oil can
> might contain even a miniscule amount to oil to lubricate the pumping
> mechanism, and that this could possibly contaminate the brake fluid?
>  b. Will the brake fluid, over time, corrode the inside of the
> pump oiler?  Would a plastic oiler be better?
>
> item #7. The fresh brake fluid that was squirted from the oil can into the
> the bleeder valve, and from there through the lines to the master cylinder,
> would not that have some contaminants that were picked up from flowing
> backwards through the brake lines?  Would it be a good idea to remove the
> contents one more time (a second time) from the master cylinder after
> "reverse flushing", and then fill with fresh fluid?
>
> Thanks again for the idea.
>
> Jerry
> 240D (and others)
>
>
> __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature
> database 6439 (20110905) __
>
> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
> ___
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
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[MBZ] VW Brakes

[Fred Moir]

Sorry Two leading shoes on Bus not Beetle.
Brain fart.

--
Fred Moir
Lynn MA
Diesel preferred


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Re: [MBZ] brakes

[RELNGSON]

> ...My '63 Beetle exhibited all kinds of odd steering and braking problems 
> when the rear shocks were bad, I wonder if your rear shocks are allowing 
> too much weight transfer to the front which contributes to locking up the 
> rear brakes?..
> 
So your theory is that when the brakes are applied, the rear shocks lock up 
somehow to hold the back end down?

Better get a patent on this one.

RLE

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Re: [MBZ] Brakes..

[RELNGSON]

> ..Proportioning valve sending full pressure to the rears?..
> 
In a VW Beetle?

RLE
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Time? was: 36k acres

[Max Dillon]

Thanks Philip.  1963?  That's earlier than I thought.

Max

Fmiser  wrote:

>> Max Dillon wrote:
>
>> Ok, I'll bite, are all these strange references to some song,
>> movie, or show?
>
>The show Dr. Who.  It began in November 1963.  The show centers
>around a human looking alien who has a "borrowed" machine that
>travels in Time And Relative Dimensions In Space (TARDIS).
>There was a break in productions in the during the 1990's, but
>new shows are still being shot.
>
>Let's see if I can find a Wikipedia article...   Yup.
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Who
>
>--   Philip
>
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-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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Re: [MBZ] 36k acres

[Max Dillon]

I'm about to finally take the plunge into that world (TV via web), "Breaking 
Bad" on AMC has hooked me.  I won't pay $$$ for monthly cable TV, but I will 
pay $1.99 per episode to download from Amazon.

Max

Rich Thomas  wrote:

>Yes, you can catch a lot of the earlier "modern" shows on Netflix 
>starting from 2005 I believe.  Season 6 is now playing on BBC.  I got
>up 
>to Season 5 on Netflix then through the magic of the webbertubes I 
>discovered that some soul has posted all the new season on-line, in HD.
> 
>The most recent show was Saturday night, I downloaded it yesterday 
>morning and watched it last night on the AppleTV streaming it off my 
>iMac in iTunes after a bit of twiddling to get iTunes happy with the
>format.
>
>--R (Who?)
>
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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[MBZ] Brake Bleeder Questions

[Jerry Herrman]

Grant,

I am intrigued by your "reverse" method of brake bleeding. Got a couple of 
questions.

Item #2.  a. Not sure exactly how you recommend the squeeze bulb be attached to 
the nipple in such a way as to evacuate the old fluid.
 
  b.  If one end of the exit hose is in the receiver container, 
what is the other end attached to?
  c.  Do you evacuate each line from the nipple at this stage, or 
do you first empty the master cylinder?

item #4   a. If you use Brake Kleen in the master cylinder, do you need to be 
concerned that some of it may get down into the lines?

item #5.  a. Do you need to be concerned that the metal hand pump oil can might 
contain even a miniscule amount to oil to lubricate the pumping mechanism, and 
that this could possibly contaminate the brake fluid?
  b. Will the brake fluid, over time, corrode the inside of the 
pump oiler?  Would a plastic oiler be better?

item #7. The fresh brake fluid that was squirted from the oil can into the the 
bleeder valve, and from there through the lines to the master cylinder, would 
not that have some contaminants that were picked up from flowing backwards 
through the brake lines?  Would it be a good idea to remove the contents one 
more time (a second time) from the master cylinder after "reverse flushing", 
and then fill with fresh fluid?

Thanks again for the idea.

Jerry 
240D (and others)


__ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature 
database 6439 (20110905) __

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

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[MBZ] Fwd: 1985 Mercedes (Gloucester)

[Fred Moir]

Not mine.

Fred Moir
Lynn MA
Diesel preferred



 Original Message 
Subject:1985 Mercedes (Gloucester)
Date:   Mon, 05 Sep 2011 11:15:42 -0700 (PDT)
From:   fred.s...@yahoo.com
To: fred.s...@verizon.net



fred.s...@yahoo.com has forwarded you this craigslist.org posting.

Please see below for more information.

Visit the posting at 
http://boston.craigslist.org/nos/cto/2581046543.html to contact the 
person who posted this.





   1985 Mercedes

Date: 2011-09-03, 9:42PM

60,000 miles, many new parts. Difficulty running on new fuel. Perfect 
for collector or Mechanic. Owner no longer drives.


   * Location: Gloucester
   * it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other
 commercial interests

Original URL: http://boston.craigslist.org/nos/cto/2581046543.html



/this craigslist posting was forwarded to you by someone using our 
email-a-friend feature - if you want to prevent these, please go to:
/http://www.craigslist.org/cgi-bin/te/U2FsdGVkX18yMDAzNDIwMA8Yq9H7bM93PdqVlXYLeTh_9YPdCDuYfITrWeaS8vOyPHGNeuaoan_zILM-A1M-zA 




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Re: [MBZ] to 80 or to 81 the glow system

[Max Dillon]

You got me! 
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[Michael Canfield]

Phillip,
  Thanks but I have covered all of those bases.

Mike
On Sep 5, 2011 2:12 PM, "Fmiser"  wrote:
>> Michael Canfield wrote:
>
>> Dan,
>> I have bench bled 2 masters a dozen or more times. I have
>> checked, double checked and checked again that the master
>> could return all of the way and has the proper clearance. I
>> have replaced the under the trunk lid reservoir with a Volvo
>> unit that snaps right on the top of the master cylinder. I
>> have gravity bled, I have pumped the pedal til my leg was
>> going to fall off, I have vacuum bled, I have pressure bled
>> and I have made sure the shoes are adjusted as tight as they
>> can be and STILL no luck.
>
> I suspect you have been through all this already... :)
>
> But are you sure the problem is air in the line?
>
> It the pedal firm, but not enough stopping force? That would
> suggest a problem other than air in the line.
>
> Maybe a restricted (clogged) hard line or proportioning valve?
>
> Ah - if the back brakes lock - could the proportioning valve be
> in "backwards"? That is, low force back brake port connected to
> the front?
>
> Is the pedal soft? Maybe weak hoses at the wheels that are
> expanding with the pressure.
>
> -- Philip, playing armchair mechanic
>
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Re: [MBZ] Time? was: 36k acres

[Fmiser]

> Max Dillon wrote:

> Ok, I'll bite, are all these strange references to some song,
> movie, or show?

The show Dr. Who.  It began in November 1963.  The show centers
around a human looking alien who has a "borrowed" machine that
travels in Time And Relative Dimensions In Space (TARDIS).
There was a break in productions in the during the 1990's, but
new shows are still being shot.

Let's see if I can find a Wikipedia article...   Yup.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Who

--   Philip

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[Fmiser]

> Michael Canfield wrote:

> Dan,
>   I have bench bled 2 masters a dozen or more times.  I have
> checked, double checked and checked again that the master
> could return all of the way and has the proper clearance.  I
> have replaced the under the trunk lid reservoir with a Volvo
> unit that snaps right on the top of the master cylinder.  I
> have gravity bled, I have pumped the pedal til my leg was
> going to fall off, I have vacuum bled, I have pressure bled
> and I have made sure the shoes are adjusted as tight as they
> can be and STILL no luck.

I suspect you have been through all this already... :)

But are you sure the problem is air in the line?

It the pedal firm, but not enough stopping force?  That would
suggest a problem other than air in the line.

Maybe a restricted (clogged) hard line or proportioning valve?

Ah - if the back brakes lock - could the proportioning valve be
in "backwards"?  That is, low force back brake port connected to
the front?

Is the pedal soft?  Maybe weak hoses at the wheels that are
expanding with the pressure.

--  Philip, playing armchair mechanic

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[Mitch Haley]

Fred Moir wrote:

Fronts are 2 leading shoe, rears are one leading, one trailing.


2 leading shoe, with a single hydraulic cylinder, would require an interesting 
linkage. I bet there's some rather exact adjusting/tuning involved.


Back in the days of brake cables, motorcycle front brakes were double leading 
shoe, with an adjustable length rod connecting the two cams that operated the 
shoes. Things got interesting when you stopped on a hill and found out that 
going backwards, you had a double trailing shoe front brake, and couldn't apply 
the rear brake with your feet on the ground.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[Michael Canfield]

If there was a restriction in the line I would be able to get the pedal to
build up but still have no brakes.  I can't even get a good pedal at all.  I
have blown air through all of the lines.  This is a southern car and has no
rust.

Mike
On Sep 5, 2011 2:02 PM, "Craig"  wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Sep 2011 13:36:06 -0400 Michael Canfield 
> wrote:
>
>> I got wheel cylinders listed for the car from CB Performance. They were
>> identical to the leaky ones that were on the car. All of the original
>> steel lines are in perfect condition and pass fluid easily. All of the
>> rubber lines have been replaced with new.
>
> How did you check that the steel lines, "pass fluid easily"? A
> restriction due to rust would cause slow response to the components
> connected beyond the restriction.
>
> Your having to pump like crazy and then getting only a little brake
> action still points to the master cylinder, though.
>
>
> Craig
>
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Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[Michael Canfield]

That is why I may have the check valve stuck open.  I bench bleed the in a
vise before they go on the car and again, by hand on the pedal once on the
car.  I do recall though, that both new m/c's were stuck and required enough
force to get them unstuck that the plunger may have travelled past it's
proper range.  I will find out when I dissect it.

Mike
On Sep 5, 2011 1:51 PM, "Allan Streib"  wrote:
> Michael Canfield  writes:
>
>> It is a drum/drum split. One line goes to the rear and two to the front
>> directly off from the dual circuit m/c. The more and more I think about I
>> must just have bad luck and have two faulty master cylinders. Time for an
>> OE one when I get time.
>
> Bench bleed the new MC carefully. Put a block of wood under the pedal
> to prevent it from bottoming out. I've seen master cylinder seals
> ruined by just one or two pumps of the pedal all the way to the floor.
>
> Allan
>
> --
> 1983 300D
> 1979 300SD
>
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Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[Allan Streib]

Michael Canfield  writes:

> It is a drum/drum split.  One line goes to the rear and two to the front
> directly off from the dual circuit m/c.  The more and more I think about I
> must just have bad luck and have two faulty master cylinders.  Time for an
> OE one when I get time.

Bench bleed the new MC carefully.  Put a block of wood under the pedal
to prevent it from bottoming out.  I've seen master cylinder seals
ruined by just one or two pumps of the pedal all the way to the floor.

Allan

-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] 36k acres

[Rich Thomas]

Yes, you can catch a lot of the earlier "modern" shows on Netflix 
starting from 2005 I believe.  Season 6 is now playing on BBC.  I got up 
to Season 5 on Netflix then through the magic of the webbertubes I 
discovered that some soul has posted all the new season on-line, in HD.  
The most recent show was Saturday night, I downloaded it yesterday 
morning and watched it last night on the AppleTV streaming it off my 
iMac in iTunes after a bit of twiddling to get iTunes happy with the format.


--R (Who?)

On 9/5/11 12:55 PM, Max Dillon wrote:

Grant, thanks, got it now. Is that show still broadcast?

Max
-- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. 
G Mann  wrote: Max, Google "Tardis" and all will be 
revealed. A time travel challenge was thrown out... so we are "running 
the clock" on it.. pun intended. Later? Grant...


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Re: [MBZ] 36k acres

[Michael Canfield]

I think Grant has the TARDIS in one of his mines.

Mike
On Sep 5, 2011 12:57 PM, "G Mann"  wrote:
> I have no idea... it's been a "relatively long time" since I've seen an
> episode. ;))
> Grant...
>
> On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Max Dillon wrote:
>
>> Grant, thanks, got it now. Is that show still broadcast?
>>
>> Max
>> --
>> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>
>> G Mann  wrote:
>>
>> Max,
>> Google "Tardis" and all will be revealed.
>>
>> A time travel challenge was thrown out... so we are "running the clock"
on
>> it.. pun intended.
>>
>> Later?
>>
>> Grant...
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 8:50 AM, Max Dillon > >wrote:
>>
>> > Ok, I'll bite, are all these strange references to some song, movie, or
>> > show?
>> >
>> > Max
>> > --
>> > Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>> >
>> > Rich Thomas  wrote:
>> >
>> > I'm leaving tomorrow and will be there yesterday.
>> >
>> > --R
>> >
>> > On 9/5/11 1:08 AM, G Mann wrote:
>> > > Ha if you got one that works.. bring it... anytime... ;))
>> > >
>> > > On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 9:09 PM, Rich Thomas<
>> > > richthomas79td...@constructivity.net> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> Coming by Tardis, sometime.
>> > >>
>> > >> --R
>> > >>
>> > >> On 9/2/11 11:37 PM, G Mann wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>> Drop in... as in Delta Team 6 ? wink winkTry to discourage that
>> > when
>> > >>> possible.. hahaha..
>> > >>> Rattlesnake repellent recommended.
>> > >>> Bring ear plugs.. some days the silence is deafening.
>> > >>> Once per lifetime on step 1 please [if at all].
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Grant...
>> > >>>
>> > >>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 2:46 PM, Rich Thomas<
>> > >>> richthomas79TD300@**constructivity.net<
>> > richthomas79td...@constructivity.net>>
>> > >>> wrote:
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Cool (well, except for step 1). I might drop in on you someday.
I'll
>> >  ring
>> >  ahead, and bring my own arsenal.
>> > 
>> >  --R
>> > 
>> >  On 9/2/11 1:10 AM, G Mann wrote:
>> > 
>> >  Rich,
>> > > Short steps version.
>> > > 1. Satanic ex wife, endless lawyers, done.
>> > > 2. Designed and built a large commercial production facility,
sold
>> it
>> > to
>> > > investment partners at a happy price.
>> > > 3. Desire for peace and quiet and love of open spaces found the
>> > place.
>> > > 4. It has what I want, I have what it needs. Home sweet home.
>> > >
>> > > Grant...
>> > >
>> > >_
>>
>> > _
>> >  http://www.okiebenz.com
>> >  For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> >  To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/<;
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>> > >>;
>> > 
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>> > 
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>>
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Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[Michael Canfield]

It is a drum/drum split.  One line goes to the rear and two to the front
directly off from the dual circuit m/c.  The more and more I think about I
must just have bad luck and have two faulty master cylinders.  Time for an
OE one when I get time.

Mike
On Sep 5, 2011 1:36 PM, "Walt Zarnoch"  wrote:
> Well, I'm wrong in this case.
> I'm used to disc/drum split systems and disc/disc split systems.
>
> If it's all one loop, then yes, smaller up front would cause the rear to
> grab.
>
> Walt, who learns something new each day.
> On Sep 5, 2011 1:30 PM, "Craig"  wrote:
>> On Mon, 5 Sep 2011 13:11:17 -0400 Walt Zarnoch 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Larger suurface area means more volume needing to be filled.
>>>
>>> If the rears are smaller than the front, they need less fluid to move
>>> the same distance, so they lock before the fronts.
>>>
>>> The force exerted might be less in the rear, but when the rears lock,
>>> the front won't get enough fluid to do much.
>>
>> But the pressure in the system won't go up until the front cylinders are
>> pushing against something -- the pressure has to be the same throughout
>> the system. That is, of course, if the hydraulic lines are open
throughout
>> the system. If they are not, which is why Grant had the idea of checking
>> the front flex lines, things will definitely be odd.
>>
>>
>> Craig
>>
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Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[Allan Streib]

Michael Canfield  writes:

> I have NO pedal at all until I pump the
> hell out of the brakes and then I can get the rears to lock.

Sounds exactly like my '72 VW Super Beetle (my first car).

Allan
-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[Fred Moir]

Fronts are 2 leading shoe, rears are one leading, one trailing.

Fred Moir
Lynn MA
Diesel preferred


On 9/5/2011 1:11 PM, Walt Zarnoch wrote:

Larger suurface area means more volume needing to be filled.

If the rears are smaller than the front, they need less fluid to move the
same distance, so they lock before the fronts.

The force exerted might be less in the rear, but when the rears lock, the
front won't get enough fluid to do much.

Walt
On Sep 5, 2011 12:59 PM, "Craig"  wrote:
   

On Mon, 5 Sep 2011 12:47:07 -0400 Walt Zarnoch
wrote:

 

Might be time to add one then?

Sounds like the master isn't sized right for the wheel cylinders, or
you got cylinders that were too big a diameter for the front.
   

Wouldn't that be to small a diameter for the front? The force exerted by
the cylinder is the area of the piston times the pressure in the system.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[Michael Canfield]

Thought the same thing about the rubber lines.  All are brand new.  Of
course so is everything else but hust because it is brand new obviously does
not mean that it is any good.

I can make MG Midget brakes work right but not a Bug?

Mike
Who is about to put the 150hp engine from the bug into an 800 pound rail
buggy and fix the brakes when I get around to it.
On Sep 5, 2011 1:15 PM, "G Mann"  wrote:
> There is one other thing to look at before you sacrifice the poor chicken.
>
> Ok,, maybe two.. First, wheel cylinder condition? is one or both of them
> stuck?
> Second: Is the pressure line open to front cylinders? Flex lines in good
> shape? I once had a flex line degrade internally that would block it's
self
> when pressure was applied... drove me almost mad.
>
> On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 9:58 AM, Fred Moir  wrote:
>
>> Alles.
>> Of the VW brake repair methods mentioned, one is missing.
>> Contouring the shoe to the curve of the drum. We did this (many moons
ago)
>> at the dealership as part of a complete brake job.
>> From what was written there is no bypass in the M/cyl., no air in the
>> system, and the shoes have been "adjusted" to just dragging.
>> The only thing left is too much movement in the shoe to drum action,
hence
>> the contouring.
>> YMMV
>>
>> Fred Moir
>> Lynn MA
>> Diesel preferred
>>
>>
>> On 9/5/2011 12:44 PM, Michael Canfield wrote:
>>
>>> No proportioning valve on a Bug.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>> On Sep 5, 2011 10:20 AM, "Mitch Haley" wrote:
>>>
>>>
 Michael Canfield wrote:


> Hi Max,
> Discs would be a nice upgrade but all of my drum parts are new. Just
> have
> not been able to get a good pedal. Pump the crap out of them and it
will
> lock the rear wheels but nothing on the front with two different
master
> cylinders.
>
>
 Proportioning valve sending full pressure to the rears?

>>>
>> __**_
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Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[Craig]

On Mon, 5 Sep 2011 13:36:06 -0400 Michael Canfield 
wrote:

> I got wheel cylinders listed for the car from CB Performance.  They were
> identical to the leaky ones that were on the car.  All of the original
> steel lines are in perfect condition and pass fluid easily.  All of the
> rubber lines have been replaced with new.

How did you check that the steel lines, "pass fluid easily"? A
restriction due to rust would cause slow response to the components
connected beyond the restriction.

Your having to pump like crazy and then getting only a little brake
action still points to the master cylinder, though.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[Walt Zarnoch]

Well, I'm wrong in this case.
I'm used to disc/drum split systems and disc/disc split systems.

If it's all one loop, then yes, smaller up front would cause the rear to
grab.

Walt, who learns something new each day.
On Sep 5, 2011 1:30 PM, "Craig"  wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Sep 2011 13:11:17 -0400 Walt Zarnoch 
> wrote:
>
>> Larger suurface area means more volume needing to be filled.
>>
>> If the rears are smaller than the front, they need less fluid to move
>> the same distance, so they lock before the fronts.
>>
>> The force exerted might be less in the rear, but when the rears lock,
>> the front won't get enough fluid to do much.
>
> But the pressure in the system won't go up until the front cylinders are
> pushing against something -- the pressure has to be the same throughout
> the system. That is, of course, if the hydraulic lines are open throughout
> the system. If they are not, which is why Grant had the idea of checking
> the front flex lines, things will definitely be odd.
>
>
> Craig
>
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Re: [MBZ] to 80 or to 81 the glow system

[MG]

Unfortunately you don't seem to be doing much about chopping the 
garbage off the end of your posts even though Marshal is watching.


Manfred
Who tries to make sure he doesn't quote three tons of old crap 
with every message.




Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2011 00:11:48 -0400
From: Max Dillon 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] to 80 or to 81 the glow system


Max (signing his post because Marshall is watching)

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[Michael Canfield]

I got wheel cylinders listed for the car from CB Performance.  They were
identical to the leaky ones that were on the car.  All of the original steel
lines are in perfect condition and pass fluid easily.  All of the rubber
lines have been replaced with new.

Mike
On Sep 5, 2011 1:02 PM, "Walt Zarnoch"  wrote:
> Might be time to add one then?
>
> Sounds like the master isn't sized right for the wheel cylinders, or you
got
> cylinders that were too big a diameter for the front.
>
> Walt
> On Sep 5, 2011 12:44 PM, "Michael Canfield"  wrote:
>> No proportioning valve on a Bug.
>>
>> Mike
>> On Sep 5, 2011 10:20 AM, "Mitch Haley"  wrote:
>>> Michael Canfield wrote:
 Hi Max,
 Discs would be a nice upgrade but all of my drum parts are new. Just
> have
 not been able to get a good pedal. Pump the crap out of them and it
will
 lock the rear wheels but nothing on the front with two different master
 cylinders.
>>>
>>> Proportioning valve sending full pressure to the rears?
>>>
>>> ___
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Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[Craig]

On Mon, 5 Sep 2011 13:29:36 -0400 Michael Canfield 
wrote:

> Fred,
>   I have even gone so far as to adjust the shoes as tight as they will
> go and then bleed with no pedal at all until several pumps, then only a
> little.  Frustrating.

It, then, is definitely a hydraulic problem. From your previous email,
you need to take a good hard look at the master cylinder. Are the rubber
seals put in in the correct direction? When I rebuilt a cylinder for a
Willys Utility Wagon, I put the seals in in what seemed to be the correct
direction but was wrong. It caused the brakes to not release fully. Other
errors could cause other symptoms.

BTW, Rusty can get parts for a lot more marques than just Mercedes.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[Michael Canfield]

No.  New performance shocks all around.  Coilovers in the rear and no weight
to speak of in the front to make it dive.  I actually can't get the brakes
to work well enough to induce divelol.

Mike
On Sep 5, 2011 12:59 PM, "Max Dillon"  wrote:
> My '63 Beetle exhibited all kinds of odd steering and braking problems
when the rear shocks were bad, I wonder if your rear shocks are allowing too
much weight transfer to the front which contributes to locking up the rear
brakes?
>
> Max
> --
> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
> Walt Zarnoch  wrote:
>
> Might be time to add one then?
>
> Sounds like the master isn't sized right for the wheel cylinders, or you
got
> cylinders that were too big a diameter for the front.
>
> Walt
> On Sep 5, 2011 12:44 PM, "Michael Canfield"  wrote:
>> No proportioning valve on a Bug.
>>
>> Mike
>> On Sep 5, 2011 10:20 AM, "Mitch Haley"  wrote:
>>> Michael Canfield wrote:
 Hi Max,
 Discs would be a nice upgrade but all of my drum parts are new. Just
> have
 not been able to get a good pedal. Pump the crap out of them and it
will
 lock the rear wheels but nothing on the front with two different master
 cylinders.
>>>
>>> Proportioning valve sending full pressure to the rears?
>>>
>>>_
>
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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>>>
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>>_
>
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>>
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> _
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Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[Mitch Haley]

Michael Canfield wrote:

I have NO pedal at all until I pump the
hell out of the brakes and then I can get the rears to lock.


Sounds like loose drum brakes to me. You flail at the pedal and you can pump the 
shoes out faster than they can retract.


Don't ask me why, once you get pressure, the fronts still don't work, unless the 
two outputs from the M/C are split front/rear and the rears hit the drums first.


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Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[Craig]

On Mon, 5 Sep 2011 13:11:17 -0400 Walt Zarnoch 
wrote:

> Larger suurface area means more volume needing to be filled.
> 
> If the rears are smaller than the front, they need less fluid to move
> the same distance, so they lock before the fronts.
> 
> The force exerted might be less in the rear, but when the rears lock,
> the front won't get enough fluid to do much.

But the pressure in the system won't go up until the front cylinders are
pushing against something -- the pressure has to be the same throughout
the system. That is, of course, if the hydraulic lines are open throughout
the system. If they are not, which is why Grant had the idea of checking
the front flex lines, things will definitely be odd.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[Michael Canfield]

Fred,
  I have even gone so far as to adjust the shoes as tight as they will go
and then bleed with no pedal at all until several pumps, then only a
little.  Frustrating.

Mike
On Sep 5, 2011 12:58 PM, "Fred Moir"  wrote:
> Alles.
> Of the VW brake repair methods mentioned, one is missing.
> Contouring the shoe to the curve of the drum. We did this (many moons
> ago) at the dealership as part of a complete brake job.
> From what was written there is no bypass in the M/cyl., no air in the
> system, and the shoes have been "adjusted" to just dragging.
> The only thing left is too much movement in the shoe to drum action,
> hence the contouring.
> YMMV
>
> Fred Moir
> Lynn MA
> Diesel preferred
>
>
> On 9/5/2011 12:44 PM, Michael Canfield wrote:
>> No proportioning valve on a Bug.
>>
>> Mike
>> On Sep 5, 2011 10:20 AM, "Mitch Haley" wrote:
>>
>>> Michael Canfield wrote:
>>>
 Hi Max,
 Discs would be a nice upgrade but all of my drum parts are new. Just
have
 not been able to get a good pedal. Pump the crap out of them and it
will
 lock the rear wheels but nothing on the front with two different master
 cylinders.

>>> Proportioning valve sending full pressure to the rears?
>
> ___
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Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[Walt Zarnoch]

Prop valves are cheap.

Walt
On Sep 5, 2011 1:24 PM, "Michael Canfield"  wrote:
> I really think I am somehow not getting the air out of the whole system or
I
> have two faulty master cylinders. Before I buy more parts or waste more
> fluid I am going to pull the master cylinder apart and be sure the check
> valve in the far end is not stuck.
> In reading on some vw specific sites it seems it may be my wisest choice
> to buy an OE German master cylinder as the rebuilt ones are the most
likely
> to have the problems I am having. I have NO pedal at all until I pump the
> hell out of the brakes and then I can get the rears to lock. I have taken
> it off the road and it just sits now as I have been so frustrated with it.
> It is way too quick and small to have marginal brakes.
>
> Mike
> On Sep 5, 2011 1:11 PM, "Walt Zarnoch"  wrote:
>> Larger suurface area means more volume needing to be filled.
>>
>> If the rears are smaller than the front, they need less fluid to move the
>> same distance, so they lock before the fronts.
>>
>> The force exerted might be less in the rear, but when the rears lock, the
>> front won't get enough fluid to do much.
>>
>> Walt
>> On Sep 5, 2011 12:59 PM, "Craig"  wrote:
>>> On Mon, 5 Sep 2011 12:47:07 -0400 Walt Zarnoch 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Might be time to add one then?

 Sounds like the master isn't sized right for the wheel cylinders, or
 you got cylinders that were too big a diameter for the front.
>>>
>>> Wouldn't that be to small a diameter for the front? The force exerted by
>>> the cylinder is the area of the piston times the pressure in the system.
>>>
>>>
>>> Craig
>>>
>>> ___
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>>>
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>>
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Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[Michael Canfield]

I really think I am somehow not getting the air out of the whole system or I
have two faulty master cylinders.  Before I buy more parts or waste more
fluid I am going to pull the master cylinder apart and be sure the check
valve in the far end is not stuck.
  In reading on some vw specific sites it seems it may be my wisest choice
to buy an OE German master cylinder as the rebuilt ones are the most likely
to have the problems I am having.  I have NO pedal at all until I pump the
hell out of the brakes and then I can get the rears to lock.  I have taken
it off the road and it just sits now as I have been so frustrated with it.
It is way too quick and small to have marginal brakes.

Mike
On Sep 5, 2011 1:11 PM, "Walt Zarnoch"  wrote:
> Larger suurface area means more volume needing to be filled.
>
> If the rears are smaller than the front, they need less fluid to move the
> same distance, so they lock before the fronts.
>
> The force exerted might be less in the rear, but when the rears lock, the
> front won't get enough fluid to do much.
>
> Walt
> On Sep 5, 2011 12:59 PM, "Craig"  wrote:
>> On Mon, 5 Sep 2011 12:47:07 -0400 Walt Zarnoch 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Might be time to add one then?
>>>
>>> Sounds like the master isn't sized right for the wheel cylinders, or
>>> you got cylinders that were too big a diameter for the front.
>>
>> Wouldn't that be to small a diameter for the front? The force exerted by
>> the cylinder is the area of the piston times the pressure in the system.
>>
>>
>> Craig
>>
>> ___
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Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[G Mann]

There is one other thing to look at before you sacrifice the poor chicken.

Ok,, maybe two.. First, wheel cylinder condition?  is one or both of them
stuck?
Second: Is the pressure line open to front cylinders? Flex lines in good
shape? I once had a flex line degrade internally that would block it's self
when pressure was applied... drove me almost mad.

On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 9:58 AM, Fred Moir  wrote:

> Alles.
> Of the VW brake repair methods mentioned, one is missing.
> Contouring the shoe to the curve of the drum. We did this (many moons ago)
> at the dealership as part of a complete brake job.
> From what was written there is no bypass in the M/cyl., no air in the
> system, and the shoes have been "adjusted" to just dragging.
> The only thing left is too much movement in the shoe to drum action, hence
> the contouring.
> YMMV
>
> Fred Moir
> Lynn MA
> Diesel preferred
>
>
> On 9/5/2011 12:44 PM, Michael Canfield wrote:
>
>> No proportioning valve on a Bug.
>>
>> Mike
>> On Sep 5, 2011 10:20 AM, "Mitch Haley"  wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Michael Canfield wrote:
>>>
>>>
 Hi Max,
 Discs would be a nice upgrade but all of my drum parts are new. Just
 have
 not been able to get a good pedal. Pump the crap out of them and it will
 lock the rear wheels but nothing on the front with two different master
 cylinders.


>>> Proportioning valve sending full pressure to the rears?
>>>
>>
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Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[Walt Zarnoch]

Larger suurface area means more volume needing to be filled.

If the rears are smaller than the front, they need less fluid to move the
same distance, so they lock before the fronts.

The force exerted might be less in the rear, but when the rears lock, the
front won't get enough fluid to do much.

Walt
On Sep 5, 2011 12:59 PM, "Craig"  wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Sep 2011 12:47:07 -0400 Walt Zarnoch 
> wrote:
>
>> Might be time to add one then?
>>
>> Sounds like the master isn't sized right for the wheel cylinders, or
>> you got cylinders that were too big a diameter for the front.
>
> Wouldn't that be to small a diameter for the front? The force exerted by
> the cylinder is the area of the piston times the pressure in the system.
>
>
> Craig
>
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Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[Max Dillon]

My '63 Beetle exhibited all kinds of odd steering and braking problems when the 
rear shocks were bad, I wonder if your rear shocks are allowing too much weight 
transfer to the front which contributes to locking up the rear brakes?

Max
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Walt Zarnoch  wrote:

Might be time to add one then?

Sounds like the master isn't sized right for the wheel cylinders, or you got
cylinders that were too big a diameter for the front.

Walt
On Sep 5, 2011 12:44 PM, "Michael Canfield"  wrote:
> No proportioning valve on a Bug.
>
> Mike
> On Sep 5, 2011 10:20 AM, "Mitch Haley"  wrote:
>> Michael Canfield wrote:
>>> Hi Max,
>>> Discs would be a nice upgrade but all of my drum parts are new. Just
have
>>> not been able to get a good pedal. Pump the crap out of them and it will
>>> lock the rear wheels but nothing on the front with two different master
>>> cylinders.
>>
>> Proportioning valve sending full pressure to the rears?
>>
>>_

>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>_

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[Craig]

On Mon, 5 Sep 2011 12:47:07 -0400 Walt Zarnoch 
wrote:

> Might be time to add one then?
> 
> Sounds like the master isn't sized right for the wheel cylinders, or
> you got cylinders that were too big a diameter for the front.

Wouldn't that be to small a diameter for the front? The force exerted by
the cylinder is the area of the piston times the pressure in the system.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[Fred Moir]

Alles.
Of the VW brake repair methods mentioned, one is missing.
Contouring the shoe to the curve of the drum. We did this (many moons 
ago) at the dealership as part of a complete brake job.
From what was written there is no bypass in the M/cyl., no air in the 
system, and the shoes have been "adjusted" to just dragging.
The only thing left is too much movement in the shoe to drum action, 
hence the contouring.

YMMV

Fred Moir
Lynn MA
Diesel preferred


On 9/5/2011 12:44 PM, Michael Canfield wrote:

No proportioning valve on a Bug.

Mike
On Sep 5, 2011 10:20 AM, "Mitch Haley"  wrote:
   

Michael Canfield wrote:
 

Hi Max,
Discs would be a nice upgrade but all of my drum parts are new. Just have
not been able to get a good pedal. Pump the crap out of them and it will
lock the rear wheels but nothing on the front with two different master
cylinders.
   

Proportioning valve sending full pressure to the rears?


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Re: [MBZ] 36k acres

[G Mann]

I have no idea... it's been a "relatively long time" since I've seen an
episode.  ;))
Grant...

On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Max Dillon wrote:

> Grant, thanks, got it now. Is that show still broadcast?
>
> Max
> --
> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
> G Mann  wrote:
>
> Max,
> Google "Tardis" and all will be revealed.
>
> A time travel challenge was thrown out... so we are "running the clock" on
> it.. pun intended.
>
> Later?
>
> Grant...
>
> On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 8:50 AM, Max Dillon  >wrote:
>
> > Ok, I'll bite, are all these strange references to some song, movie, or
> > show?
> >
> > Max
> > --
> > Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> >
> > Rich Thomas  wrote:
> >
> > I'm leaving tomorrow and will be there yesterday.
> >
> > --R
> >
> > On 9/5/11 1:08 AM, G Mann wrote:
> > > Ha if you got one that works.. bring it... anytime... ;))
> > >
> > > On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 9:09 PM, Rich Thomas<
> > > richthomas79td...@constructivity.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Coming by Tardis, sometime.
> > >>
> > >> --R
> > >>
> > >> On 9/2/11 11:37 PM, G Mann wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Drop in... as in Delta Team 6 ? wink winkTry to discourage that
> > when
> > >>> possible.. hahaha..
> > >>> Rattlesnake repellent recommended.
> > >>> Bring ear plugs.. some days the silence is deafening.
> > >>> Once per lifetime on step 1 please [if at all].
> > >>>
> > >>> Grant...
> > >>>
> > >>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 2:46 PM, Rich Thomas<
> > >>> richthomas79TD300@**constructivity.net<
> > richthomas79td...@constructivity.net>>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Cool (well, except for step 1). I might drop in on you someday. I'll
> >  ring
> >  ahead, and bring my own arsenal.
> > 
> >  --R
> > 
> >  On 9/2/11 1:10 AM, G Mann wrote:
> > 
> >  Rich,
> > > Short steps version.
> > > 1. Satanic ex wife, endless lawyers, done.
> > > 2. Designed and built a large commercial production facility, sold
> it
> > to
> > > investment partners at a happy price.
> > > 3. Desire for peace and quiet and love of open spaces found the
> > place.
> > > 4. It has what I want, I have what it needs. Home sweet home.
> > >
> > > Grant...
> > >
> > >_
>
> > _
> >  http://www.okiebenz.com
> >  For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> >  To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/<;
> > http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/>;;
> >   http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >>;
> > 
> >  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > 
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> <;
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com>;;
> >   okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/**mercedes_okiebenz.com<;
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com>;;
> > _
>
> > **_
> > >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> > >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/<;
> > http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/>;;
> > >>>
> > >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com
> <;
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com>;;
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>_
>
> > **_
> > >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/<;
> > http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/>;;
> > >>
> > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com<;
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com>;;
> > >>
> > >_
>
> >
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> >
> >_
>
> >
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >_
>
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> __

Re: [MBZ] 36k acres

[Max Dillon]

Grant, thanks, got it now. Is that show still broadcast?

Max
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

G Mann  wrote:

Max,
Google "Tardis" and all will be revealed.

A time travel challenge was thrown out... so we are "running the clock" on
it.. pun intended.

Later?

Grant...

On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 8:50 AM, Max Dillon wrote:

> Ok, I'll bite, are all these strange references to some song, movie, or
> show?
>
> Max
> --
> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
> Rich Thomas  wrote:
>
> I'm leaving tomorrow and will be there yesterday.
>
> --R
>
> On 9/5/11 1:08 AM, G Mann wrote:
> > Ha if you got one that works.. bring it... anytime... ;))
> >
> > On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 9:09 PM, Rich Thomas<
> > richthomas79td...@constructivity.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Coming by Tardis, sometime.
> >>
> >> --R
> >>
> >> On 9/2/11 11:37 PM, G Mann wrote:
> >>
> >>> Drop in... as in Delta Team 6 ? wink winkTry to discourage that
> when
> >>> possible.. hahaha..
> >>> Rattlesnake repellent recommended.
> >>> Bring ear plugs.. some days the silence is deafening.
> >>> Once per lifetime on step 1 please [if at all].
> >>>
> >>> Grant...
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 2:46 PM, Rich Thomas<
> >>> richthomas79TD300@**constructivity.net<
> richthomas79td...@constructivity.net>>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Cool (well, except for step 1). I might drop in on you someday. I'll
>  ring
>  ahead, and bring my own arsenal.
> 
>  --R
> 
>  On 9/2/11 1:10 AM, G Mann wrote:
> 
>  Rich,
> > Short steps version.
> > 1. Satanic ex wife, endless lawyers, done.
> > 2. Designed and built a large commercial production facility, sold it
> to
> > investment partners at a happy price.
> > 3. Desire for peace and quiet and love of open spaces found the
> place.
> > 4. It has what I want, I have what it needs. Home sweet home.
> >
> > Grant...
> >
> >_

> _
>  http://www.okiebenz.com
>  For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>  To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/<;
> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/>;;
>   >>;
> 
>  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> 
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com<;
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com>;;
>   http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com>;;
> _

> **_
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/<;
> http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/>;;
> >>>
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com<;
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com>;;
> >>>
> >>>
> >>_

> **_
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/<;
> http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/>;;
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com<;
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com>;;
> >>
> >_

>
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
>_

>
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>_

> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
_

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To 

Re: [MBZ] 36k acres

[Max Dillon]

Thanks Craig, been too long since I've seen that show...

Max
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Craig  wrote:

On Mon, 05 Sep 2011 11:50:04 -0400 Max Dillon 
wrote:

> Ok, I'll bite, are all these strange references to some song, movie, or
> show?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TARDIS


Craig


> Max
> -- 
> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> 
> Rich Thomas  wrote:
> 
> I'm leaving tomorrow and will be there yesterday.
> 
> --R
> 
> On 9/5/11 1:08 AM, G Mann wrote:
> > Ha if you got one that works.. bring it... anytime... ;))
> >
> > On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 9:09 PM, Rich Thomas<
> > richthomas79td...@constructivity.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Coming by Tardis, sometime.
> >>
> >> --R
> >>
> >> On 9/2/11 11:37 PM, G Mann wrote:
> >>
> >>> Drop in... as in Delta Team 6 ? wink winkTry to discourage that
> >>> when possible.. hahaha..
> >>> Rattlesnake repellent recommended.
> >>> Bring ear plugs.. some days the silence is deafening.
> >>> Once per lifetime on step 1 please [if at all].
> >>>
> >>> Grant...
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 2:46 PM, Rich Thomas<
> >>> richthomas79TD300@**constructivity.net>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Cool (well, except for step 1). I might drop in on you someday. I'll
>  ring
>  ahead, and bring my own arsenal.
> 
>  --R
> 
>  On 9/2/11 1:10 AM, G Mann wrote:
> 
>  Rich,
> > Short steps version.
> > 1. Satanic ex wife, endless lawyers, done.
> > 2. Designed and built a large commercial production facility,
> > sold it to investment partners at a happy price.
> > 3. Desire for peace and quiet and love of open spaces found the
> > place.
> > 4. It has what I want, I have what it needs. Home sweet home.
> >
> > Grant...
> >
> >_

> _
>  http://www.okiebenz.com
>  For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>  To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>  ;;
>    >;;
> 
>  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>  http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com;;
>  ;;
> _

> **_
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
> >>> ;;
> >>>
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com;;
> >>>
> >>>
> >>_

> **_
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
> >> ;;
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com;;
> >>
> >_

> 
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> 
>_

> 
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
>_

> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


Craig

_

Present:'95 E320Sebastian 108 kmi
'94 E420 Oskar 123 kmi
'82 240D/3.0 Bluebell 265 kmi
Past: '86 190E/2.3
'72 220/8
'64 190Dc Emma
'72 220D/8 Herman 186 kmi

_

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[Michael Canfield]

I have yet to try the chicken but I have done some serious "chanting" at it
to no avail.  I have found that older Bugs have residual pressure valves
fitted to the master cylinder so that the return springs do not pull the
shoes back too far from the drum.  Mine does not have these but does have
mechanical adjusters that should do the same job.  They do, however put low
residual pressure valves on buggys that have a mc lower than the caliper or
drum to keep the fluid from running back to the mc.  I should not need that
but if I can't get them right I am ready to try about anything.

Mike
On Sep 5, 2011 12:13 PM, "Allan Streib"  wrote:
> I honestly think there is some voodoo involved in bleeding and adjusting
> VW brakes. Have you tried sacrificing a chicken under a full moon??
>
> Allan
>
> Michael Canfield  writes:
>
>> Dan,
>> I have bench bled 2 masters a dozen or more times. I have checked, double
>> checked and checked again that the master could return all of the way and
>> has the proper clearance. I have replaced the under the trunk lid
reservoir
>> with a Volvo unit that snaps right on the top of the master cylinder. I
>> have gravity bled, I have pumped the pedal til my leg was going to fall
off,
>> I have vacuum bled, I have pressure bled and I have made sure the shoes
are
>> adjusted as tight as they can be and STILL no luck.
>> On Sep 5, 2011 10:14 AM, "Dan Penoff"  wrote:
>>> Be sure to bleed the master cylinder before installing it.
>>>
>>> One other thing that I found really critical when it came to VW brakes
>> -make sure the clevis pin on the pedal is adjusted for 1-2mm clearance
when
>> the pedal is at rest. If the piston in the master cylinder can't return
all
>> the way you'll never get good pedal.
>>>
>>> Don't ask me how I know this...
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Sep 5, 2011, at 10:02 AM, Michael Canfield 
wrote:
>>>
 Hi Max,
 Discs would be a nice upgrade but all of my drum parts are new. Just
have
 not been able to get a good pedal. Pump the crap out of them and it
will
 lock the rear wheels but nothing on the front with two different master
 cylinders. If Grant's backwards but logical method doesn't work I am
>> going
 to try an OE German master cylinder and bleed again, hopefully with
>> better
 results.

 Mike
 On Sep 5, 2011 9:13 AM, "Max Dillon"  wrote:
> You need some disc brake parts from a Porch of the same era, Roger
knows
 where one is...
>
> Max (learned to drive on cars with drum brakes)
> --
> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
> Michael Canfield  wrote:
>
> Grant,
> Brilliant idea. I have a VW Bug that runs about 12.5 seconds in the1/4
> mile but seems to take a 1/2 mile to stop after replacing every brake
>> part
> and going through gallons of brake fluid trying different methods of
> bleeding. I am going to the parts store asap to get the oil pump can
and
>> I
> am certain your method will finally get the job done.
>
> Thanks, Mike
> Who wishes he had mines big enough to park his M37's in.
> On Sep 4, 2011 7:27 PM, "G Mann"  wrote:
>> Over the past 40 years I have owned, I believe, every pressure bleed
 brake
>> system, vacuum bleed system, and every other crackpot tool invented
to
> bleed
>> brakes. They now all reside on my tool collection board of tools that
 cost
>> loads of money, don't work well [or not at all] and "I would never
buy
>> again.
>>
>> Some years ago I started using a system that DOES work well, Doesn't
>> cost
>> much, and so far hasn't failed me. It allows me to bleed both
hydraulic
>> clutch systems and brake systems without a helper, truly one man.
Since
>> I
>> started using it, I now change out the hydraulic fluids as a regular
>> scheduled item.
>>
>> Here is how it works for me:
>>
>> 1. Open the master cylinder cover, lay a clean cloth over it [stray
>> dirt/bugs/etc are forbidden]
>>
>> 2.
>> Hook a common squeeze bulb [like you siphon gas into your lawn mower
 with]
>> to the bleed nipple farthest from the master cylinder [play with fuel
 line
>> hose sizes to get it done for your particular application]... drop
the
> exit
>> hose into a receiving container [you are going to dispose of it
right?]
 If
>> you already have a hand vacuum pump with a receiver bottle... that
can
> work
>> as well.
>>
>> 3. Squeeze pump the old fluid out of the master cylinder till it's
>> empty,
>> repeat operation 2. for each bleed nipple to evacuate each line from
>> the
>> master to wheel cylinder.
>>
>> 4. Wipe clean all the "gunk" left inside the Master Cylinder. [I
often
 use
>> spray brake cleen at this point to get all the slime, then carefully
>> dry
> it
>> out]
>>
>> 5. Using an old fashioned metal hand p

Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[Walt Zarnoch]

Might be time to add one then?

Sounds like the master isn't sized right for the wheel cylinders, or you got
cylinders that were too big a diameter for the front.

Walt
On Sep 5, 2011 12:44 PM, "Michael Canfield"  wrote:
> No proportioning valve on a Bug.
>
> Mike
> On Sep 5, 2011 10:20 AM, "Mitch Haley"  wrote:
>> Michael Canfield wrote:
>>> Hi Max,
>>> Discs would be a nice upgrade but all of my drum parts are new. Just
have
>>> not been able to get a good pedal. Pump the crap out of them and it will
>>> lock the rear wheels but nothing on the front with two different master
>>> cylinders.
>>
>> Proportioning valve sending full pressure to the rears?
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
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Re: [MBZ] OT Cheap bearings and jobs

[Max Dillon]

Information is power, you win this round. Globalization gives with one hand 
($25 in your case) and takes away with the other (computer interaction vs high 
Victorian ceiling and a worn hardwood floor).

Max
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

David & Kristin Gilmore  wrote:

I was surprised recently to discover how inexpensive ball 
bearings have become.

I needed two bearings to fix a piece of farm equipment. I have 
learned it is is better not to go to the original equipment dealer 
for bearings since they charge a premium for a name on a box that 
contains a generic bearing. Instead, I usually go to a store (for 
some reason called a "bearing house") that specializes in 
bearings. You just slap the bearing on the counter and some old guy 
matches it to one he has in stock.

Well, unfortunately, you can't do that in Wheeling WV any 
more. On a hunch I had called first and I was told the business was 
sold and moved to some place in Ohio about two hours from 
me. Alternatives were as far away. Wheeling is one hour.

I was guessing the dealer would want $50.00. Just for fun I 
checked MSC's web site - the bearing I wanted (SKF 6207 2RS) was 
$37.42. (This is a common Metric 35X72X17 sealed ball 
bearing.) When I Googled the SKF number up jumped many vendors 
wanting to sell cheaper than $37.42. Since these bearings would be 
going into an item that already had a couple thousand hours on it and 
the bearings were fairly easy to get to, I chose a vendor that 
advertised bearings equal to the SKF in load rating - 25,000 N 
dynamic and 15,000 static. The winning vendor was vxb.com. $7.77 
each. They have ten ways to ship, from $0.00 (pick it up yourself at 
their outlet in Los Angeles) to $90 something for next day air. I 
chose the "take your time" at $5.00. This turned out to be the USPS 
which took 4 days.

The bearings (labeled CXJSD) looked and felt right and tapped 
in with about the same force it took to remove the SKF ones. I put 
it all back together and used it two hours. OK so far.

I have mixed feelings about all this. I suppose in my own 
little way I have contributed to the loss of local jobs. But if the 
Asian countries can make quality stuff this cheap I think we would be 
better off doing something else. In fact, we are doing something 
else locally - a shale gas boom that has brought lots of jobs and 
money. But I guess not as much need for a bearing house as there 
used to be. And it had a high Victorian ceiling and a worn hardwood floor.


Dave Gilmore, Cameron WV

I have lived here so long I trip over what has been gone for years.


_

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[Michael Canfield]

No proportioning valve on a Bug.

Mike
On Sep 5, 2011 10:20 AM, "Mitch Haley"  wrote:
> Michael Canfield wrote:
>> Hi Max,
>> Discs would be a nice upgrade but all of my drum parts are new. Just have
>> not been able to get a good pedal. Pump the crap out of them and it will
>> lock the rear wheels but nothing on the front with two different master
>> cylinders.
>
> Proportioning valve sending full pressure to the rears?
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
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Re: [MBZ] 36k acres

[G Mann]

Max,
Google "Tardis" and all will be revealed.

A time travel challenge was thrown out... so we are "running the clock" on
it.. pun intended.

Later?

Grant...

On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 8:50 AM, Max Dillon wrote:

> Ok, I'll bite, are all these strange references to some song, movie, or
> show?
>
> Max
> --
> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
> Rich Thomas  wrote:
>
> I'm leaving tomorrow and will be there yesterday.
>
> --R
>
> On 9/5/11 1:08 AM, G Mann wrote:
> > Ha if you got one that works.. bring it... anytime... ;))
> >
> > On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 9:09 PM, Rich Thomas<
> > richthomas79td...@constructivity.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Coming by Tardis, sometime.
> >>
> >> --R
> >>
> >> On 9/2/11 11:37 PM, G Mann wrote:
> >>
> >>> Drop in... as in Delta Team 6 ? wink winkTry to discourage that
> when
> >>> possible.. hahaha..
> >>> Rattlesnake repellent recommended.
> >>> Bring ear plugs.. some days the silence is deafening.
> >>> Once per lifetime on step 1 please [if at all].
> >>>
> >>> Grant...
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 2:46 PM, Rich Thomas<
> >>> richthomas79TD300@**constructivity.net<
> richthomas79td...@constructivity.net>>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Cool (well, except for step 1). I might drop in on you someday. I'll
>  ring
>  ahead, and bring my own arsenal.
> 
>  --R
> 
>  On 9/2/11 1:10 AM, G Mann wrote:
> 
>  Rich,
> > Short steps version.
> > 1. Satanic ex wife, endless lawyers, done.
> > 2. Designed and built a large commercial production facility, sold it
> to
> > investment partners at a happy price.
> > 3. Desire for peace and quiet and love of open spaces found the
> place.
> > 4. It has what I want, I have what it needs. Home sweet home.
> >
> > Grant...
> >
> >_
> _
>  http://www.okiebenz.com
>  For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>  To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/<
> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/>;
>   >>;
> 
>  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> 
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com<
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com>;
>   http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com>;
> _
> **_
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/<
> http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/>;
> >>>
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com<
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com>;
> >>>
> >>>
> >>_
> **_
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/<
> http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/>;
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com<
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com>;
> >>
> >_
>
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> >
>
> _
>
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> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
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Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[LWB250]

I would agree with this statement.  Of the many VWs I owned over the years, I 
can recall that getting the braking system to work 100% was pure serendipity.

Dan



From: Allan Streib 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Sent: Monday, September 5, 2011 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

I honestly think there is some voodoo involved in bleeding and adjusting
VW brakes.  Have you tried sacrificing a chicken under a full moon??

Allan

Michael Canfield  writes:

> Dan,
>   I have bench bled 2 masters a dozen or more times.  I have checked, double
> checked and checked again that the master could return all of the way and
> has the proper clearance.  I have replaced the under the trunk lid reservoir
> with a Volvo unit that snaps right on the top of the master cylinder.  I
> have gravity bled, I have pumped the pedal til my leg was going to fall off,
> I have vacuum bled, I have pressure bled and I have made sure the shoes are
> adjusted as tight as they can be and STILL no luck.
> On Sep 5, 2011 10:14 AM, "Dan Penoff"  wrote:
>> Be sure to bleed the master cylinder before installing it.
>>
>> One other thing that I found really critical when it came to VW brakes
> -make sure the clevis pin on the pedal is adjusted for 1-2mm clearance when
> the pedal is at rest. If the piston in the master cylinder can't return all
> the way you'll never get good pedal.
>>
>> Don't ask me how I know this...
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Sep 5, 2011, at 10:02 AM, Michael Canfield  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Max,
>>> Discs would be a nice upgrade but all of my drum parts are new. Just have
>>> not been able to get a good pedal. Pump the crap out of them and it will
>>> lock the rear wheels but nothing on the front with two different master
>>> cylinders. If Grant's backwards but logical method doesn't work I am
> going
>>> to try an OE German master cylinder and bleed again, hopefully with
> better
>>> results.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>> On Sep 5, 2011 9:13 AM, "Max Dillon"  wrote:
 You need some disc brake parts from a Porch of the same era, Roger knows
>>> where one is...

 Max (learned to drive on cars with drum brakes)
 --
 Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

 Michael Canfield  wrote:

 Grant,
 Brilliant idea. I have a VW Bug that runs about 12.5 seconds in the1/4
 mile but seems to take a 1/2 mile to stop after replacing every brake
> part
 and going through gallons of brake fluid trying different methods of
 bleeding. I am going to the parts store asap to get the oil pump can and
> I
 am certain your method will finally get the job done.

 Thanks, Mike
 Who wishes he had mines big enough to park his M37's in.
 On Sep 4, 2011 7:27 PM, "G Mann"  wrote:
> Over the past 40 years I have owned, I believe, every pressure bleed
>>> brake
> system, vacuum bleed system, and every other crackpot tool invented to
 bleed
> brakes. They now all reside on my tool collection board of tools that
>>> cost
> loads of money, don't work well [or not at all] and "I would never buy
> again.
>
> Some years ago I started using a system that DOES work well, Doesn't
> cost
> much, and so far hasn't failed me. It allows me to bleed both hydraulic
> clutch systems and brake systems without a helper, truly one man. Since
> I
> started using it, I now change out the hydraulic fluids as a regular
> scheduled item.
>
> Here is how it works for me:
>
> 1. Open the master cylinder cover, lay a clean cloth over it [stray
> dirt/bugs/etc are forbidden]
>
> 2.
> Hook a common squeeze bulb [like you siphon gas into your lawn mower
>>> with]
> to the bleed nipple farthest from the master cylinder [play with fuel
>>> line
> hose sizes to get it done for your particular application]... drop the
 exit
> hose into a receiving container [you are going to dispose of it right?]
>>> If
> you already have a hand vacuum pump with a receiver bottle... that can
 work
> as well.
>
> 3. Squeeze pump the old fluid out of the master cylinder till it's
> empty,
> repeat operation 2. for each bleed nipple to evacuate each line from
> the
> master to wheel cylinder.
>
> 4. Wipe clean all the "gunk" left inside the Master Cylinder. [I often
>>> use
> spray brake cleen at this point to get all the slime, then carefully
> dry
 it
> out]
>
> 5. Using an old fashioned metal hand pump oil can [like your
> grandfather
> had... they are still available... cost maybe $5... and never use it
> for
> oil... just this] fill it with brake fluid.. attach a properly sized
 length
> of fuel hose to the squirt tube and the other end to the brake bleed
 nipple.
> I like to use a generous length here so I can work outside the wheel
 instead
> of under the car...
>
> 6. Lay the c

Re: [MBZ] 36k acres

[Craig]

On Mon, 05 Sep 2011 11:50:04 -0400 Max Dillon 
wrote:

> Ok, I'll bite, are all these strange references to some song, movie, or
> show?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TARDIS


Craig


> Max
> -- 
> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> 
> Rich Thomas  wrote:
> 
> I'm leaving tomorrow and will be there yesterday.
> 
> --R
> 
> On 9/5/11 1:08 AM, G Mann wrote:
> > Ha if you got one that works.. bring it... anytime... ;))
> >
> > On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 9:09 PM, Rich Thomas<
> > richthomas79td...@constructivity.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Coming by Tardis, sometime.
> >>
> >> --R
> >>
> >> On 9/2/11 11:37 PM, G Mann wrote:
> >>
> >>> Drop in... as in Delta Team 6 ? wink winkTry to discourage that
> >>> when possible.. hahaha..
> >>> Rattlesnake repellent recommended.
> >>> Bring ear plugs.. some days the silence is deafening.
> >>> Once per lifetime on step 1 please [if at all].
> >>>
> >>> Grant...
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 2:46 PM, Rich Thomas<
> >>> richthomas79TD300@**constructivity.net>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Cool (well, except for step 1). I might drop in on you someday. I'll
>  ring
>  ahead, and bring my own arsenal.
> 
>  --R
> 
>  On 9/2/11 1:10 AM, G Mann wrote:
> 
>  Rich,
> > Short steps version.
> > 1. Satanic ex wife, endless lawyers, done.
> > 2. Designed and built a large commercial production facility,
> > sold it to investment partners at a happy price.
> > 3. Desire for peace and quiet and love of open spaces found the
> > place.
> > 4. It has what I want, I have what it needs. Home sweet home.
> >
> > Grant...
> >
> >_
> _
>  http://www.okiebenz.com
>  For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>  To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>  ;
>    >;
> 
>  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>  http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com;
>  ;
> _
> **_
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
> >>> ;
> >>>
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com;
> >>>
> >>>
> >>_
> **_
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
> >> ;
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com;
> >>
> >_
> 
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> 
> _
> 
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


Craig

--
Present:'95 E320Sebastian  108 kmi
'94 E420Oskar  123 kmi
'82 240D/3.0Bluebell   265 kmi
Past:   '86 190E/2.3
'72 220/8
'64 190Dc   Emma
'72 220D/8  Herman 186 kmi

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To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[Allan Streib]

I honestly think there is some voodoo involved in bleeding and adjusting
VW brakes.  Have you tried sacrificing a chicken under a full moon??

Allan

Michael Canfield  writes:

> Dan,
>   I have bench bled 2 masters a dozen or more times.  I have checked, double
> checked and checked again that the master could return all of the way and
> has the proper clearance.  I have replaced the under the trunk lid reservoir
> with a Volvo unit that snaps right on the top of the master cylinder.  I
> have gravity bled, I have pumped the pedal til my leg was going to fall off,
> I have vacuum bled, I have pressure bled and I have made sure the shoes are
> adjusted as tight as they can be and STILL no luck.
> On Sep 5, 2011 10:14 AM, "Dan Penoff"  wrote:
>> Be sure to bleed the master cylinder before installing it.
>>
>> One other thing that I found really critical when it came to VW brakes
> -make sure the clevis pin on the pedal is adjusted for 1-2mm clearance when
> the pedal is at rest. If the piston in the master cylinder can't return all
> the way you'll never get good pedal.
>>
>> Don't ask me how I know this...
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Sep 5, 2011, at 10:02 AM, Michael Canfield  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Max,
>>> Discs would be a nice upgrade but all of my drum parts are new. Just have
>>> not been able to get a good pedal. Pump the crap out of them and it will
>>> lock the rear wheels but nothing on the front with two different master
>>> cylinders. If Grant's backwards but logical method doesn't work I am
> going
>>> to try an OE German master cylinder and bleed again, hopefully with
> better
>>> results.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>> On Sep 5, 2011 9:13 AM, "Max Dillon"  wrote:
 You need some disc brake parts from a Porch of the same era, Roger knows
>>> where one is...

 Max (learned to drive on cars with drum brakes)
 --
 Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

 Michael Canfield  wrote:

 Grant,
 Brilliant idea. I have a VW Bug that runs about 12.5 seconds in the1/4
 mile but seems to take a 1/2 mile to stop after replacing every brake
> part
 and going through gallons of brake fluid trying different methods of
 bleeding. I am going to the parts store asap to get the oil pump can and
> I
 am certain your method will finally get the job done.

 Thanks, Mike
 Who wishes he had mines big enough to park his M37's in.
 On Sep 4, 2011 7:27 PM, "G Mann"  wrote:
> Over the past 40 years I have owned, I believe, every pressure bleed
>>> brake
> system, vacuum bleed system, and every other crackpot tool invented to
 bleed
> brakes. They now all reside on my tool collection board of tools that
>>> cost
> loads of money, don't work well [or not at all] and "I would never buy
> again.
>
> Some years ago I started using a system that DOES work well, Doesn't
> cost
> much, and so far hasn't failed me. It allows me to bleed both hydraulic
> clutch systems and brake systems without a helper, truly one man. Since
> I
> started using it, I now change out the hydraulic fluids as a regular
> scheduled item.
>
> Here is how it works for me:
>
> 1. Open the master cylinder cover, lay a clean cloth over it [stray
> dirt/bugs/etc are forbidden]
>
> 2.
> Hook a common squeeze bulb [like you siphon gas into your lawn mower
>>> with]
> to the bleed nipple farthest from the master cylinder [play with fuel
>>> line
> hose sizes to get it done for your particular application]... drop the
 exit
> hose into a receiving container [you are going to dispose of it right?]
>>> If
> you already have a hand vacuum pump with a receiver bottle... that can
 work
> as well.
>
> 3. Squeeze pump the old fluid out of the master cylinder till it's
> empty,
> repeat operation 2. for each bleed nipple to evacuate each line from
> the
> master to wheel cylinder.
>
> 4. Wipe clean all the "gunk" left inside the Master Cylinder. [I often
>>> use
> spray brake cleen at this point to get all the slime, then carefully
> dry
 it
> out]
>
> 5. Using an old fashioned metal hand pump oil can [like your
> grandfather
> had... they are still available... cost maybe $5... and never use it
> for
> oil... just this] fill it with brake fluid.. attach a properly sized
 length
> of fuel hose to the squirt tube and the other end to the brake bleed
 nipple.
> I like to use a generous length here so I can work outside the wheel
 instead
> of under the car...
>
> 6. Lay the cover loosely over the Master Cylinder.. [CAUTION.. if you
> do
 not
> do this you will have brake fluid where you do not want it,, plus a
> mess
 to
> clean up]
>
> 7. Start pumping brake fluid backwards from the nipple... to the master
> cylinder... start at the longest line run first... WATC

Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[Walt Zarnoch]

My vote is a defective prop valve.

Walt
On Sep 5, 2011 11:55 AM, "Michael Canfield"  wrote:
> Dan,
> I have bench bled 2 masters a dozen or more times. I have checked, double
> checked and checked again that the master could return all of the way and
> has the proper clearance. I have replaced the under the trunk lid
reservoir
> with a Volvo unit that snaps right on the top of the master cylinder. I
> have gravity bled, I have pumped the pedal til my leg was going to fall
off,
> I have vacuum bled, I have pressure bled and I have made sure the shoes
are
> adjusted as tight as they can be and STILL no luck.
> On Sep 5, 2011 10:14 AM, "Dan Penoff"  wrote:
>> Be sure to bleed the master cylinder before installing it.
>>
>> One other thing that I found really critical when it came to VW brakes
> -make sure the clevis pin on the pedal is adjusted for 1-2mm clearance
when
> the pedal is at rest. If the piston in the master cylinder can't return
all
> the way you'll never get good pedal.
>>
>> Don't ask me how I know this...
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Sep 5, 2011, at 10:02 AM, Michael Canfield 
wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Max,
>>> Discs would be a nice upgrade but all of my drum parts are new. Just
have
>>> not been able to get a good pedal. Pump the crap out of them and it will
>>> lock the rear wheels but nothing on the front with two different master
>>> cylinders. If Grant's backwards but logical method doesn't work I am
> going
>>> to try an OE German master cylinder and bleed again, hopefully with
> better
>>> results.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>> On Sep 5, 2011 9:13 AM, "Max Dillon"  wrote:
 You need some disc brake parts from a Porch of the same era, Roger
knows
>>> where one is...

 Max (learned to drive on cars with drum brakes)
 --
 Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

 Michael Canfield  wrote:

 Grant,
 Brilliant idea. I have a VW Bug that runs about 12.5 seconds in the1/4
 mile but seems to take a 1/2 mile to stop after replacing every brake
> part
 and going through gallons of brake fluid trying different methods of
 bleeding. I am going to the parts store asap to get the oil pump can
and
> I
 am certain your method will finally get the job done.

 Thanks, Mike
 Who wishes he had mines big enough to park his M37's in.
 On Sep 4, 2011 7:27 PM, "G Mann"  wrote:
> Over the past 40 years I have owned, I believe, every pressure bleed
>>> brake
> system, vacuum bleed system, and every other crackpot tool invented to
 bleed
> brakes. They now all reside on my tool collection board of tools that
>>> cost
> loads of money, don't work well [or not at all] and "I would never buy
> again.
>
> Some years ago I started using a system that DOES work well, Doesn't
> cost
> much, and so far hasn't failed me. It allows me to bleed both
hydraulic
> clutch systems and brake systems without a helper, truly one man.
Since
> I
> started using it, I now change out the hydraulic fluids as a regular
> scheduled item.
>
> Here is how it works for me:
>
> 1. Open the master cylinder cover, lay a clean cloth over it [stray
> dirt/bugs/etc are forbidden]
>
> 2.
> Hook a common squeeze bulb [like you siphon gas into your lawn mower
>>> with]
> to the bleed nipple farthest from the master cylinder [play with fuel
>>> line
> hose sizes to get it done for your particular application]... drop the
 exit
> hose into a receiving container [you are going to dispose of it
right?]
>>> If
> you already have a hand vacuum pump with a receiver bottle... that can
 work
> as well.
>
> 3. Squeeze pump the old fluid out of the master cylinder till it's
> empty,
> repeat operation 2. for each bleed nipple to evacuate each line from
> the
> master to wheel cylinder.
>
> 4. Wipe clean all the "gunk" left inside the Master Cylinder. [I often
>>> use
> spray brake cleen at this point to get all the slime, then carefully
> dry
 it
> out]
>
> 5. Using an old fashioned metal hand pump oil can [like your
> grandfather
> had... they are still available... cost maybe $5... and never use it
> for
> oil... just this] fill it with brake fluid.. attach a properly sized
 length
> of fuel hose to the squirt tube and the other end to the brake bleed
 nipple.
> I like to use a generous length here so I can work outside the wheel
 instead
> of under the car...
>
> 6. Lay the cover loosely over the Master Cylinder.. [CAUTION.. if you
> do
 not
> do this you will have brake fluid where you do not want it,, plus a
> mess
 to
> clean up]
>
> 7. Start pumping brake fluid backwards from the nipple... to the
master
> cylinder... start at the longest line run first... WATCH FOR FLUID AT
> THE
> MASTER CYLINDER... it will come nicely.. DO NOT fill the maste

Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[Michael Canfield]

Dan,
  I have bench bled 2 masters a dozen or more times.  I have checked, double
checked and checked again that the master could return all of the way and
has the proper clearance.  I have replaced the under the trunk lid reservoir
with a Volvo unit that snaps right on the top of the master cylinder.  I
have gravity bled, I have pumped the pedal til my leg was going to fall off,
I have vacuum bled, I have pressure bled and I have made sure the shoes are
adjusted as tight as they can be and STILL no luck.
On Sep 5, 2011 10:14 AM, "Dan Penoff"  wrote:
> Be sure to bleed the master cylinder before installing it.
>
> One other thing that I found really critical when it came to VW brakes
-make sure the clevis pin on the pedal is adjusted for 1-2mm clearance when
the pedal is at rest. If the piston in the master cylinder can't return all
the way you'll never get good pedal.
>
> Don't ask me how I know this...
>
> Dan
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 5, 2011, at 10:02 AM, Michael Canfield  wrote:
>
>> Hi Max,
>> Discs would be a nice upgrade but all of my drum parts are new. Just have
>> not been able to get a good pedal. Pump the crap out of them and it will
>> lock the rear wheels but nothing on the front with two different master
>> cylinders. If Grant's backwards but logical method doesn't work I am
going
>> to try an OE German master cylinder and bleed again, hopefully with
better
>> results.
>>
>> Mike
>> On Sep 5, 2011 9:13 AM, "Max Dillon"  wrote:
>>> You need some disc brake parts from a Porch of the same era, Roger knows
>> where one is...
>>>
>>> Max (learned to drive on cars with drum brakes)
>>> --
>>> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>>
>>> Michael Canfield  wrote:
>>>
>>> Grant,
>>> Brilliant idea. I have a VW Bug that runs about 12.5 seconds in the1/4
>>> mile but seems to take a 1/2 mile to stop after replacing every brake
part
>>> and going through gallons of brake fluid trying different methods of
>>> bleeding. I am going to the parts store asap to get the oil pump can and
I
>>> am certain your method will finally get the job done.
>>>
>>> Thanks, Mike
>>> Who wishes he had mines big enough to park his M37's in.
>>> On Sep 4, 2011 7:27 PM, "G Mann"  wrote:
 Over the past 40 years I have owned, I believe, every pressure bleed
>> brake
 system, vacuum bleed system, and every other crackpot tool invented to
>>> bleed
 brakes. They now all reside on my tool collection board of tools that
>> cost
 loads of money, don't work well [or not at all] and "I would never buy
 again.

 Some years ago I started using a system that DOES work well, Doesn't
cost
 much, and so far hasn't failed me. It allows me to bleed both hydraulic
 clutch systems and brake systems without a helper, truly one man. Since
I
 started using it, I now change out the hydraulic fluids as a regular
 scheduled item.

 Here is how it works for me:

 1. Open the master cylinder cover, lay a clean cloth over it [stray
 dirt/bugs/etc are forbidden]

 2.
 Hook a common squeeze bulb [like you siphon gas into your lawn mower
>> with]
 to the bleed nipple farthest from the master cylinder [play with fuel
>> line
 hose sizes to get it done for your particular application]... drop the
>>> exit
 hose into a receiving container [you are going to dispose of it right?]
>> If
 you already have a hand vacuum pump with a receiver bottle... that can
>>> work
 as well.

 3. Squeeze pump the old fluid out of the master cylinder till it's
empty,
 repeat operation 2. for each bleed nipple to evacuate each line from
the
 master to wheel cylinder.

 4. Wipe clean all the "gunk" left inside the Master Cylinder. [I often
>> use
 spray brake cleen at this point to get all the slime, then carefully
dry
>>> it
 out]

 5. Using an old fashioned metal hand pump oil can [like your
grandfather
 had... they are still available... cost maybe $5... and never use it
for
 oil... just this] fill it with brake fluid.. attach a properly sized
>>> length
 of fuel hose to the squirt tube and the other end to the brake bleed
>>> nipple.
 I like to use a generous length here so I can work outside the wheel
>>> instead
 of under the car...

 6. Lay the cover loosely over the Master Cylinder.. [CAUTION.. if you
do
>>> not
 do this you will have brake fluid where you do not want it,, plus a
mess
>>> to
 clean up]

 7. Start pumping brake fluid backwards from the nipple... to the master
 cylinder... start at the longest line run first... WATCH FOR FLUID AT
THE
 MASTER CYLINDER... it will come nicely.. DO NOT fill the master from
only
 one nipple

 8. Go to the next longest line.. pump brake fluid same way... increase
>>> fluid
 amount in Master cylinder... go to next longest.. etc etc...

 9. Of course, close each nipple when you are

Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[Max Dillon]

That's my thought as well...

Max
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Mitch Haley  wrote:

Michael Canfield wrote:
> Hi Max,
> Discs would be a nice upgrade but all of my drum parts are new. Just have
> not been able to get a good pedal. Pump the crap out of them and it will
> lock the rear wheels but nothing on the front with two different master
> cylinders.

Proportioning valve sending full pressure to the rears?

_

http://www.okiebenz.com
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[MBZ] OT Cheap bearings and jobs

[David & Kristin Gilmore]

 I was surprised recently to discover how inexpensive ball 
bearings have become.


 I needed two bearings to fix a piece of farm equipment. I have 
learned it is is better not to go to the original equipment dealer 
for bearings since they charge a premium for a name on a box that 
contains a generic bearing.  Instead, I usually go to a store (for 
some reason called a "bearing house") that specializes in 
bearings.  You just slap the bearing on the counter and some old guy 
matches it to one he has in stock.


 Well, unfortunately, you can't do that in Wheeling WV any 
more.  On a hunch I had called first and I was told the business was 
sold and moved to some place in Ohio about two hours from 
me.  Alternatives were as far away. Wheeling is one hour.


 I was guessing the dealer would want $50.00.  Just for fun I 
checked MSC's web site - the bearing I wanted (SKF 6207 2RS) was 
$37.42.  (This is a common Metric 35X72X17 sealed ball 
bearing.)  When I Googled the SKF number up jumped many vendors 
wanting to sell cheaper than $37.42.  Since these bearings would be 
going into an item that already had a couple thousand hours on it and 
the bearings were fairly easy to get to, I chose a vendor that 
advertised bearings equal to the SKF in load rating - 25,000 N 
dynamic and 15,000 static. The winning vendor was  vxb.com.  $7.77 
each.  They have ten ways to ship, from $0.00 (pick it up yourself at 
their outlet in Los Angeles) to $90 something for next day air.  I 
chose the "take your time" at $5.00.  This turned out to be the USPS 
which took 4 days.


 The bearings (labeled CXJSD) looked and felt right and tapped 
in with about the same force it took to remove the SKF ones.  I put 
it all back together and used it two hours.  OK so far.


 I have mixed feelings about all this.  I suppose in my own 
little way I have contributed to the loss of local jobs.  But if the 
Asian countries can make quality stuff this cheap I think we would be 
better off doing something else.  In fact, we are doing something 
else locally - a shale gas boom that has brought lots of jobs and 
money.  But I guess not as much need for a bearing house as there 
used to be.  And it had a high Victorian ceiling and a worn hardwood floor.



 Dave Gilmore, Cameron WV

 I have lived here so long I trip over what has been gone for years.


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Re: [MBZ] 36k acres

[Max Dillon]

Ok, I'll bite, are all these strange references to some song, movie, or show?

Max
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Rich Thomas  wrote:

I'm leaving tomorrow and will be there yesterday.

--R

On 9/5/11 1:08 AM, G Mann wrote:
> Ha if you got one that works.. bring it... anytime... ;))
>
> On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 9:09 PM, Rich Thomas<
> richthomas79td...@constructivity.net> wrote:
>
>> Coming by Tardis, sometime.
>>
>> --R
>>
>> On 9/2/11 11:37 PM, G Mann wrote:
>>
>>> Drop in... as in Delta Team 6 ? wink winkTry to discourage that when
>>> possible.. hahaha..
>>> Rattlesnake repellent recommended.
>>> Bring ear plugs.. some days the silence is deafening.
>>> Once per lifetime on step 1 please [if at all].
>>>
>>> Grant...
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 2:46 PM, Rich Thomas<
>>> richthomas79TD300@**constructivity.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Cool (well, except for step 1). I might drop in on you someday. I'll
 ring
 ahead, and bring my own arsenal.

 --R

 On 9/2/11 1:10 AM, G Mann wrote:

 Rich,
> Short steps version.
> 1. Satanic ex wife, endless lawyers, done.
> 2. Designed and built a large commercial production facility, sold it to
> investment partners at a happy price.
> 3. Desire for peace and quiet and love of open spaces found the place.
> 4. It has what I want, I have what it needs. Home sweet home.
>
> Grant...
>
>_
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Re: [MBZ] 36k acres

[G Mann]

Is it time already? ;))
I'll "shift" my schedule. It must have gotten warped.
Grant...

On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 7:12 AM, Rich Thomas <
richthomas79td...@constructivity.net> wrote:

> I'm leaving tomorrow and will be there yesterday.
>
> --R
>
> On 9/5/11 1:08 AM, G Mann wrote:
>
>> Ha if you got one that works.. bring it... anytime... ;))
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 9:09 PM, Rich Thomas<
>> richthomas79TD300@**constructivity.net>
>>  wrote:
>>
>>  Coming by Tardis, sometime.
>>>
>>> --R
>>>
>>> On 9/2/11 11:37 PM, G Mann wrote:
>>>
>>>  Drop in... as in Delta Team 6 ?   wink winkTry to discourage that
 when
 possible.. hahaha..
 Rattlesnake repellent recommended.
 Bring ear plugs.. some days the silence is deafening.
 Once per lifetime on step 1 please [if at all].

 Grant...

 On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 2:46 PM, Rich Thomas<
 richthomas79TD300@**constructi**vity.net <
 richthomas79TD300@**constructivity.net
 >>
  wrote:

  Cool (well, except for step 1).  I might drop in on you someday.  I'll

> ring
> ahead, and bring my own arsenal.
>
> --R
>
> On 9/2/11 1:10 AM, G Mann wrote:
>
>  Rich,
>
>> Short steps version.
>> 1. Satanic ex wife, endless lawyers, done.
>> 2. Designed and built a large commercial production facility, sold it
>> to
>> investment partners at a happy price.
>> 3. Desire for peace and quiet and love of open spaces found the place.
>> 4. It has what I want, I have what it needs. Home sweet home.
>>
>> Grant...
>>
>>  __**_
>>
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives 
> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
> 
> >
>  com/archive/ >>
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> okiebenz.com
>  *com
> >
>  okiebenz.com
> 
> >
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Re: [MBZ] Brake Bleeder

[Mitch Haley]

Michael Canfield wrote:

Hi Max,
  Discs would be a nice upgrade but all of my drum parts are new.  Just have
not been able to get a good pedal.  Pump the crap out of them and it will
lock the rear wheels but nothing on the front with two different master
cylinders.


Proportioning valve sending full pressure to the rears?

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