Re: [MBZ] Horse power vs. torque

[Fmiser via Mercedes]

> > > OK Don wrote:
> > >
> > > IIRC, the V8 has more torque, which is what a truck needs.

> > Fmiser wrote:
> >
> > Well, no.  Not really.  But sort of.

> Jim wrote:
> 
> It's a good first approximation.  Torque maps to
> acceleration, whereas horsepower maps to top speed.
> A 200HP 400#' engine will likely be _far_ more drivable
> than a 300HP 200#' engine, assuming equivalence in other
> broad parameters.  (RPM range, reasonable number of
> gears, etc.)

The physics principles say "no" - horsepower is horsepower.  But -
the perception of the person controlling the engine speed says
"Physics - go jump in a lake!".

I suspect your definition of "drivable" is probably similar to mine
- if high RPM (with high noise and high fuel use) is necessary to
"access" the torque then it is less pleasant to drive.  Thus if
your 200 HP engine required high RPM to get it's 400 lbs-ft of
torque but the 300 HP engine had it's 200 lbs-ft available from a
low RPM I think we would consider the 300 HP more drivable.  (I
realize that with most modern internal combustion engines the
scenario I just mentioned is unlikely).

So with a suitable transmission, and a willingness to put the
engine in the right RPM range, the 300 HP engine will out
accelerate the 200 HP.  Probably.  Though torque curves,
transmission ratios, RPM limits, etc. really muddle things.

--  Philip

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Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?

[Fmiser via Mercedes]

> Andrew wrote:
> 
> What countries is she passing through, to get where exactly? She
> who must be admired?

Excerpts from the very post you just quoted

"Parts of the AlCan are still pretty rough

"Put the car on a barge or ship in Portland or Seattle and fly up.
Seattle and Portland are the Sam's Club and Costco for Alaska."

"SWMBA wants to drive the AlCan to get to her new abode."

So - AlCan is the Alaska-Canadian highway.  She would be driving
from USA through Canada to USA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Highway
http://www.milepost.com/highway_info/alaska_highway

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Re: [MBZ] Horse power vs. torque - was: OT: How is this game played exactly?

[Fmiser via Mercedes]

> OK wrote:
> 
> Now, if I understand correctly, if my pickup has the required
> torque to pull the 4000 lb. trailer up Grapevine, and your lawn
> tractor doesn't, I'll be moving and you won't. So torque does
> matter, but more HP with the required torque means the work gets
> performed faster. Insufficient torque means no work is done.

Pretty close.  What you describe would be correct if it were not
for the transmission.

However, the transmission "trades" "speed" and "torque" (much like a
electric transformer "trades" volts and amps - but the watts stay
the same).  So a 'phone vibration motor connected through a
transmission with a deep enough low gear could pull that trailer up
Grapevine! Probably we would have to measure the speed by years or
decades, though. *smiles*

This means that my little tractor, with it's very, very low gearing
will be able to pull the trailer because the transmission is
trading away speed until there is enough torque.  But with only 7
HP, the speed will be very slow.

> If Curt wants to haul a load of gravel to camp, he'll need a
> minimum amount of torque to accomplish the job, regardless of how
> fast it gets done.
> 
> Did I get it right?

Just remember that the lower gear ratios of the transmission
_increase_ torque and _decrease_ speed.  So if there isn't enough
torque - downshift.  Of course, that only works until you run out
of gears...  Higher horsepower means higher speed at the torque
needed to do the job. 

Usually - as that ugly headed real-world gets in the way and messes
this all up with transmission ratios that don't line up well to
engine power band, torque curves over RPM, etc.  Nothing is as
simple as simple physics says it should be!

--  Philip

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Re: [MBZ] Today's cheap home brew Find

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Tue, 29 Jul 2014 19:28:58 -0400 Allan Streib via Mercedes
 wrote:

> Changing topic slightly, turns out that most micro/craft whiskey is
> actually not.
> 
> http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/28/your-craft-whiskey-is-probably-from-a-factory-distillery-in-indiana.html


"'The smoke and mirrors used in this industry make it extremely
difficult,' complains one micro-distiller who actually makes his own
whiskey. 'When one company talks about their heritage recipe that was a
favorite of a gangster, even though it is just the stock MGP recipe, we
all suffer,' because customers feel burned."


Indeed.

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Re: [MBZ] This One's For Wilt

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Tue, 29 Jul 2014 21:48:56 -0500 OK Don via Mercedes
 wrote:

> There is a reason why bombs are shaped the way they are with fins on the
> back end - they tend to land where you aimed them better than random
> shaped objects. It doesn't help much if your non-toxic bombs don't hit
> the target.  Otherwise, I like your idea 

How about molded concrete? Maybe even with added on fins ...


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Horse power vs. torque - was: OT: How is this game played exactly?

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Tue, 29 Jul 2014 21:42:06 -0500 OK Don via Mercedes
 wrote:

> OK Phillip - thanks for the clear explanation!
> 
> Now, if I understand correctly, if my pickup has the required torque to
> pull the 4000 lb. trailer up Grapevine, and your lawn tractor doesn't,
> I'll be moving and you won't. So torque does matter, but more HP with
> the required torque means the work gets performed faster. Insufficient
> torque means no work is done.

No, lower torque means the work is done more slowly.

With the right gearing, tires, and weight, a lawn tractor motor can move
an 80,000 pound semi trailer up the Grapevine, just like a 1500 HP semi
tractor. Except slower.


> If Curt wants to haul a load of gravel to camp, he'll need a minimum
> amount of torque to accomplish the job, regardless of how fast it gets
> done.
> 
> Did I get it right?

Ummm ... no, not quite. You forgot about the requisite gearing.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] This One's For Wilt

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Speaking of dropping bombs --

"The last surviving member of the US air crew that dropped an atomic bomb
on Hiroshima has died in Georgia aged 93."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-28548475





>
>

>
OK Don

NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] This One's For Wilt

[OK Don via Mercedes]

There is a reason why bombs are shaped the way they are with fins on the
back end - they tend to land where you aimed them better than random shaped
objects. It doesn't help much if your non-toxic bombs don't hit the
target.  Otherwise, I like your idea 


On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 8:23 PM, clay via Mercedes 
wrote:

> I am thinking we should be more ecologically friendly in our munitions.
>  Various sized gravel and stones at terminal velocity would be swift and
> have no lasting toxic effects.  A day after the event, it is all good,
> twenty years on, no birth defects or cancer.  On top of that, no bad PR
> from pix of naked girls running down the road after being napalmed.
>
> Even better, if the plane gets hit, nothing explodes prematurely, and the
> cost of munitions is dirt cheap
>
> clay
>
>


-- 
OK Don

NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Horse power vs. torque - was: OT: How is this game played exactly?

[OK Don via Mercedes]

OK Phillip - thanks for the clear explanation!

Now, if I understand correctly, if my pickup has the required torque to
pull the 4000 lb. trailer up Grapevine, and your lawn tractor doesn't, I'll
be moving and you won't. So torque does matter, but more HP with the
required torque means the work gets performed faster. Insufficient torque
means no work is done.

If Curt wants to haul a load of gravel to camp, he'll need a minimum amount
of torque to accomplish the job, regardless of how fast it gets done.

Did I get it right?


On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 7:34 PM, Fmiser via Mercedes 
wrote:

> > OK wrote:
> >
> > IIRC, the V8 has more torque, which is what a truck needs.
>
> Well, no.  Not really.  But sort of.
>
> Nothing against you Don, but this is a very common
> miss-perception.  So I'm not picking on you - just using your
> comment as motivation to respond. *smiles*
>
> Torque is rotational force.  There can be torque with no movement.
> Unless there is movement, no work is being done.
>
> If there is torque, and movement occurs - then work is being done.
> With a stopwatch (or calendar?) you can measure how fast the work
> is being done.  This is horsepower [or watts].
>
> If you have an engine with a fixed horsepower attached to a
> transmission (presuming an infinite ratio and lossless - which
> doesn't exist) the torque can be any value at all.  For high
> torque, it will be moving slow - but for low torque it will be
> moving fast.
>
> If we don't change the diameter of the tire, the torque on the
> axle necessary to pull a 4000 lb [1800 kg] trailer up
> Grapevine out of Los Angeles is fixed.  So if your your 400 hp
> pickup and my 7 hp garden tractor have the same size tire, the
> torque needed is the same.  The difference is speed.  Your
> pickup will get to the top a lot faster than my tractor
> because the axle can turn faster because your engine has more
> horsepower.
>
> So far it's very clear - but then reality rears it's ugly
> head.  Transmissions have fixed ratios and losses.  Engine
> ratings are for _maximum_ horsepower - but the actual
> horsepower and torque vary depending on speed.  This makes it
> almost impossible to actually do an apples-to-apples
> comparison.
>
> Nevertheless, looking at the torque value is pretty
> meaningless.  If you look at the torque values for various
> engine RPM, you can get a clue as to how usable the
> power is.  If there is little torque at low RPM, then high RPM
> will be needed to get useable power.  This makes it feel like
> the driver has to work the engine harder to get the job done.
>
> So - to repeat.  Just a torque value is nearly meaningless.
> Torque at a particular RPM is useful - but that is by
> definition horsepower!
>
> --  Philip
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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> has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
>



-- 
OK Don

NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT I am so angry

[clay via Mercedes]

I got screwed over in March.  Shop hosted a club event and I bit on their offer 
of reduced rates to have work done.  The tech was not qualified to work on a 
D-jet system and buggered it up very well.  It now stumbles and backfires as 
well as runs overly rich.  It was having some minor backfiring before, but now 
it runs poorly.  They write up this big list of all manner of work they can 
still do, and it comes to close to $10k.  I talked to a few other members and 
they too got screwed over.

My standard indy has been honest about how hard it is to work on getting the 
thing right.  He is averse to throwing parts at it, which was what the other 
shop did.  I took the SL to him to get the steering lock changed out with the 
fleabay one.  Stealership did not get the new tumbler in over three months 
after I ordered it.   I took the old one to a locksmith, who cut new code keys 
and cleaned the lock.  I went back to my indy to get the lock changed out.  It 
took him less than a half hour.  Minimal charge is for half hour.  I whip out 
my wallet, and he tells me to go home, it was on him.  The ten minute fixes and 
fast hops on the lift normally get the same treatment

clay



On Jul 29, 2014, at 12:14 PM, Gary Hurst via Mercedes wrote:

> shops gouge you.  depending on how busy they are and who he talks to, that
> same job is 400 instead of 1200.  i guess the microecoomist calls this
> "price discrimation".  you get what you can and that is different from
> everyone
> 
> there is someone who will do this job for less than half and do it well
> enough.  he's just gotta go talk to people to find it
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 3:10 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> The boy in DC has been driving the 98 Cad.  Calls me the other day and
>> says the brake light has come on, brakes are a bit mushy, so I tell him to
>> take it to a shop.  He does that today.  They give him a quote of $703.  I
>> call and talk to the guy.  $80 for rear pads (I put new ones on the front
>> not that long ago, they are like $20 a set). $88x2 for rear rotors which
>> may be sorta reasonable, fluid and flush for $139, and $227 for labor.
>> Their labor rate was for 1.7hr.  $48 for "shop fees" which includes rags
>> and brake cleaner, a standard charge.  Total BS.  I guess that sorta adds
>> up with taxes and such.  Reluctantly after going over the fluid/flush
>> number (how hard is that?) I tell them to go ahead since he needs the car
>> and has no time to deal with this stuff and the car has not required a lot
>> of work over the years, so whatever.
>> 
>> So then they call him and say there is a problem with the a brake line
>> leaking.  I am thinking maybe a flex line.  I call them back, the guy says
>> a front hard line is cracked or something and is leaking, which is why the
>> pedal was soft.  I ask what that will cost, he tells me the total is now
>> $1228.  Over $500 to replace a hard line?  WTF???  So I tell the guy that
>> seems quite excessive, a line is maybe $30 and how long to replace it?
>> $500 labor to replace a line?  Then he tells me, well, you know, we have
>> to do flairs, and those are hard to get right, then there is
>> blahblahblah  I tell him to move the car out, my son will come get it
>> and take it somewhere else.  Then he starts in, "Well if you don't want
>> quality work done that's your choice" and I hang up.
>> 
>> I am just so angry at these guys trying to screw over customers who are
>> sorta over a barrel.  The brake line thing is probably BS too but what are
>> you gonna do?  My wife had a patient who worked for a dealer as a mech, and
>> then for an indy, he would tell her these stories about how they would
>> "find" problems and jack the prices up, then do nothing to the car but
>> charge for it.  He said it was just standard behavior on all these guys he
>> had ever run across.  He finally quit and does work for people on the side,
>> cash, and said he was making OK money and happy he was doing the right
>> thing.
>> 
>> So anyway I told him to go find a Sears or a Midas or something to do the
>> brake job, how hard can that be and it won't be anywhere near $1200.  I
>> know, Midas and Sears, but  Hell I could ship my tools and fly up there
>> and still be like $800 ahead.
>> 
>> --R
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>> has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> *reliable vendor of superior parts for mercedes and other european cars*
> *www.BuyEUROparts.com *
> _

Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

What countries is she passing through, to get where exactly? She who must
be admired?


On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 9:46 PM, clay via Mercedes 
wrote:

> SWMBA is completely off her rocker.  I call her Last Minute Lucy, since
> she is a day late and dollar short at planning things.  I advised her to
> get her crap together last year, or at least by Feb. to begin house
> hunting.  She began late May, and closed on what was available 28 days
> before the move.  Not the place she wanted or the list of needs and wants.
>  Too far from school and work, but not so far it hurts.
>
> Purchased the car ten days before she leaves town, and has yet to take
> possession.  Still has her old car that needs detail and get sold.That
> is a long shot, since she is out of town this week.
>
> She decided to begin looking for furniture for the new house in late June.
>  No sense of style, or visualization ability.  There is a six to ten week
> lead time for the product to show up.  The movers came to give a quote for
> taking her stuff up.  No paperwork yet, but it looks like the earliest it
> will get there is late October.
>
> She wants an adventure, so is driving.  I know she is bat shit crazy, so I
> am not taking part.  The trip is estimated to be 48 driving hours.  She
> thinks she can pull that off in five days.  Two border crossings, lower
> speed roads, wild animals on the road, drunks, really uncomfortable seats
> and three people in the car.  I took five days to blast from Orlando to
> Seattle at 85mph.  Drove sun up to sundown in early August.
>
>
>
> On Jul 29, 2014, at 4:41 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
>
> > Parts of the AlCan are still pretty rough. Expect to replace a
> windshield by the end of the trip.
> >
> > She is psycho, isn't she?
> >
> > Put the car on a barge or ship in Portland or Seattle and fly up.  This
> is a daily thing around there. Seattle and Portland are the Sam's Club and
> Costco for Alaska.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> >> On Jul 28, 2014, at 7:13 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> So is this effort your part in getting her to be gone?
> >>
> >> --R
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 7/28/14 7:04 PM, clay via Mercedes wrote:
> >>> Lies, mischaracterizations, obfuscation and deceit.
> >>>
> >>> That is how cars are sold.
> >>>
> >>> SWMBA wants to drive the AlCan to get to her new abode.  The korean
> sedan will not meet her needs, so she decided a used Rav4 would.  No
> research was done on her part and she blithely wanders into a few places
> she found a suitable example from CL.  I had bothered to bone up on the
> cars and kept my mouth shut except when it got thick and silly.  We wasted
> a weekend test driving the things and having mouth breathers  bloviate
> about the wonderful deals they would make her.  I told her it was her
> decision, as I would not be driving the thing.
> >>>
> >>> Last Friday, after I had to field calls from sales critters  (she did
> not want to divulge her corporate #), I told her to check back with the
> persistent feller at the toy oda shop.  Most of the places she looked were
> selling auction cars and marked up stickers.  They thought the cars were
> pooped out by the almighty himself and would not negotiate or get close to
> her price.  The guy at the toad lot got the sweetest deal by having the car
> be CPO, dropped closest to her price, and then negotiations hit a bump.  No
> more room they said.
> >>>
> >>> She is texting me at work to get my take.  I tell her to pit the three
> shops with the cars she likes against each other.  Call one shop while at
> the desk waiting for the critter to get back from chatting up his manager.
>  Pull up other listings while she waits.  Get up and get a cup of tea and
> snack, then walk outside for fresh air.  An hour later, the rock bottom
> price they can offer is stated.  No wiggle room for them, and still not
> making her happy.  I tell her to make them sweeten the pot with goodies,
> like weather beater carpet covers, and tchotkes that really will cost them
> nothing, but would make her feel she got a deal.
> >>>
> >>> Now she wants me to fully detail her sedan.  That is not going to
> happen.  I told her to spend the cash for a shop to do it, because I need
> to spend at least that much to get supplies stocked to do the job right.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> clay
> >>>
> >>> 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored chap
> >>> 1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
> >>> 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
> >>> 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
> >>> POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
>  On Jul 27, 2014, at 6:23 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
> 
>  Trip #3 to try out new trucks took us to a Mazda dealership that had
> a 2010 Chevy Silverado and 2010 Ford 150. We decided we liked the Ford
> better but it was a crew cab (and $28k).
> 
>  We don't need a crew ca

Re: [MBZ] OT I am so angry

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Yes, but they acted very responsibly in admitting their error and making me
whole again with a free tow, engine flush, and oil change.


On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 9:04 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Rich Thomas via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> I looked up the Montgomery Mall Sears, Yelp had a lot of mixed reviews on
>> the service there for whatever that is worth.  There is a place right near
>> where he lives that seems to have good reviews but not sure what their
>> prices might be relative to the other place. There are also a coupla mobile
>> brake guys who come to the car that have good reviews.  I emailed them
>> both, one guy says he broke his foot so is out of commission for awhile.
>>  Have not heard from the other one yet.
>>
>
> Didn't Andrew get his used oil at Sears?
>
> Mitch.
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?

[clay via Mercedes]

SWMBA is completely off her rocker.  I call her Last Minute Lucy, since she is 
a day late and dollar short at planning things.  I advised her to get her crap 
together last year, or at least by Feb. to begin house hunting.  She began late 
May, and closed on what was available 28 days before the move.  Not the place 
she wanted or the list of needs and wants.  Too far from school and work, but 
not so far it hurts.

Purchased the car ten days before she leaves town, and has yet to take 
possession.  Still has her old car that needs detail and get sold.That is a 
long shot, since she is out of town this week.

She decided to begin looking for furniture for the new house in late June.  No 
sense of style, or visualization ability.  There is a six to ten week lead time 
for the product to show up.  The movers came to give a quote for taking her 
stuff up.  No paperwork yet, but it looks like the earliest it will get there 
is late October.  

She wants an adventure, so is driving.  I know she is bat shit crazy, so I am 
not taking part.  The trip is estimated to be 48 driving hours.  She thinks she 
can pull that off in five days.  Two border crossings, lower speed roads, wild 
animals on the road, drunks, really uncomfortable seats and three people in the 
car.  I took five days to blast from Orlando to Seattle at 85mph.  Drove sun up 
to sundown in early August.



On Jul 29, 2014, at 4:41 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

> Parts of the AlCan are still pretty rough. Expect to replace a windshield by 
> the end of the trip.
> 
> She is psycho, isn't she?
> 
> Put the car on a barge or ship in Portland or Seattle and fly up.  This is a 
> daily thing around there. Seattle and Portland are the Sam's Club and Costco 
> for Alaska.
> 
> Dan
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Jul 28, 2014, at 7:13 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> So is this effort your part in getting her to be gone?
>> 
>> --R
>> 
>> 
>>> On 7/28/14 7:04 PM, clay via Mercedes wrote:
>>> Lies, mischaracterizations, obfuscation and deceit.
>>> 
>>> That is how cars are sold.
>>> 
>>> SWMBA wants to drive the AlCan to get to her new abode.  The korean sedan 
>>> will not meet her needs, so she decided a used Rav4 would.  No research was 
>>> done on her part and she blithely wanders into a few places she found a 
>>> suitable example from CL.  I had bothered to bone up on the cars and kept 
>>> my mouth shut except when it got thick and silly.  We wasted a weekend test 
>>> driving the things and having mouth breathers  bloviate about the wonderful 
>>> deals they would make her.  I told her it was her decision, as I would not 
>>> be driving the thing.
>>> 
>>> Last Friday, after I had to field calls from sales critters  (she did not 
>>> want to divulge her corporate #), I told her to check back with the 
>>> persistent feller at the toy oda shop.  Most of the places she looked were 
>>> selling auction cars and marked up stickers.  They thought the cars were 
>>> pooped out by the almighty himself and would not negotiate or get close to 
>>> her price.  The guy at the toad lot got the sweetest deal by having the car 
>>> be CPO, dropped closest to her price, and then negotiations hit a bump.  No 
>>> more room they said.
>>> 
>>> She is texting me at work to get my take.  I tell her to pit the three 
>>> shops with the cars she likes against each other.  Call one shop while at 
>>> the desk waiting for the critter to get back from chatting up his manager.  
>>> Pull up other listings while she waits.  Get up and get a cup of tea and 
>>> snack, then walk outside for fresh air.  An hour later, the rock bottom 
>>> price they can offer is stated.  No wiggle room for them, and still not 
>>> making her happy.  I tell her to make them sweeten the pot with goodies, 
>>> like weather beater carpet covers, and tchotkes that really will cost them 
>>> nothing, but would make her feel she got a deal.
>>> 
>>> Now she wants me to fully detail her sedan.  That is not going to happen.  
>>> I told her to spend the cash for a shop to do it, because I need to spend 
>>> at least that much to get supplies stocked to do the job right.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> clay
>>> 
>>> 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored chap
>>> 1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
>>> 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
>>> 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
>>> POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Jul 27, 2014, at 6:23 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
 
 Trip #3 to try out new trucks took us to a Mazda dealership that had a 
 2010 Chevy Silverado and 2010 Ford 150. We decided we liked the Ford 
 better but it was a crew cab (and $28k).
 
 We don't need a crew cab full size so we decided to go over to the Ford 
 dealer who actually persuaded us that it made more sense to look at a new 
 truck than used. We drove a 2014 F150 STX access cab, whic

Re: [MBZ] This One's For Wilt

[Fred Moir via Mercedes]

Ballistics from orbit?

Fred Moir.Lynn MA.Diesel preferred.

> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 18:23:06 -0700
> To: d...@penoff.com; mercedes@okiebenz.com
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] This One's For Wilt
> From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> 
> I am thinking we should be more ecologically friendly in our munitions.  
> Various sized gravel and stones at terminal velocity would be swift and have 
> no lasting toxic effects.  A day after the event, it is all good, twenty 
> years on, no birth defects or cancer.  On top of that, no bad PR from pix of 
> naked girls running down the road after being napalmed.  
> 
> Even better, if the plane gets hit, nothing explodes prematurely, and the 
> cost of munitions is dirt cheap
> 
> clay
  
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Re: [MBZ] Jaime! A Poor Widow Needs Help!

[clay via Mercedes]

That is about what my 02 w220 does.  I get within 100 feet of the place most 
days.

clay

On Jul 29, 2014, at 3:23 AM, Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes wrote:

> Hi Ned,
> 
> Updated maps are released annually.  My department does the final testing
> on them.
> 
> And house numbers are certainly available... usually down to the precision
> of one block.  What isn't available is an interpolation to position the
> destination exactly on that block (which is often inaccurate in other
> systems for a variety of reasons).  But if you have a street several miles
> long, you should be able to choose from a range of house numbers in the
> form of something like 1..99, 101..199, etc.  This also depends on map
> data:  if you live in a rural area, you'll greatly benefit from a new disc
> as detailed coverage has improved significantly.
> 
> Jaime
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 10:57 PM, ned kleinhenz via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> I have the original window sticker from my recently acquired 2006 E320 CDI.
>> 
>> It shows a Comand system including harmon/kardon Logic7 surround sound with
>> a 6 CD changer and DVD navigation.  The Command system along with a glass
>> sun -roof, powered rear window shade, and heated front seats cost the PO
>> $2950.  It also has a $500 Sirius Satellite, which I’ve never activated.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The sound system is awesome.  It puts out something like 430 watts to more
>> speakers than I can find.  And the tuner gets great reception in spite of
>> the antenna being embedded in the back window.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> But the navigation system is lame.  My circa 2008 Garmin Nuvi runs rings
>> around it.   This Comand unit can only navigate to a street or road.  There
>> seems to be no way to key in a house number.  Makes it worse than useless
>> in communities where there are multiple roads with the same name but each
>> has different ranges of house numbers.  I think the navigation system can
>> be updated by inserting a new DVD in the trunk-mounted unit.  But I have
>> never seen an update newer than 2008.   And that update costs about 2X or
>> 3X the price of a new Garmin.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> It’s reassuring to hear the Comand is robust.  If it goes bad many readouts
>> on the dash would quit working.   Even the analog clock in the dash is
>> controlled by the navigation system.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Ned Kleinhenz
>> ___
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>> 
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>> 
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>> has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jaime Kopchinski
> http://www.jaimekop.com/
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Re: [MBZ] This One's For Wilt

[clay via Mercedes]

I am thinking we should be more ecologically friendly in our munitions.  
Various sized gravel and stones at terminal velocity would be swift and have no 
lasting toxic effects.  A day after the event, it is all good, twenty years on, 
no birth defects or cancer.  On top of that, no bad PR from pix of naked girls 
running down the road after being napalmed.  

Even better, if the plane gets hit, nothing explodes prematurely, and the cost 
of munitions is dirt cheap

clay


On Jul 28, 2014, at 6:47 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

> Since these would have been conventional bombs at the time, which sort of 
> accuracy could you expect from that altitude?
> 
> ...or did it matter?
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
> On Jul 28, 2014, at 9:43 PM, WILTON  wrote:
> 
>> Yep.  'Looks familiar.  'Course, I never saw 'em from THAT perspective, and 
>> when I released conventional munitions (Vietnam), 108 at a time fell away 
>> toward the target usually 35,000 to 37,000 feet below.  'Released on Vinh, 
>> N. Vietnam from 49,500 feet one night during a typhoon in Nov '72.
>> 
>> Wilt
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Today's cheap home brew bottle Find

[Hendrik and Fay via Mercedes]

Hmmnh, I must be a bit of a pisshead, most of my bottles are 750ml which 
is about 25 fl oz.
Standard stubbie size is 375ml, Coppers still sell decent 750ml bottles 
for homebrewing, you have to be careful as some bottles are not meant to 
be reused.

https://www.danmurphys.com.au/product/DM_75482/coopers-pale-ale-750ml
BTW this is the stuff I usually drink 
https://www.danmurphys.com.au/product/DM_916901/oettinger-pils-cans-500ml is 
better if poured into a glass
I am on the lookout for some 2 litre growlers 
http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/2-liter-growler-romantic-handle.html 
they come up now and again in bottle shops, particularly towards 
Christmas time.


Hendrik
who can't have a drink yet

On 30/07/14 10:26, Dwight Giles via Mercedes wrote:

We have some 22 oz bombers here from new microbreweries.
On Jul 29, 2014 8:31 PM, "Peter Frederick via Mercedes" <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


Lol, a bomber (besides Wilton) is a 20 oz bottle.  More than I can drink
at a sitting these days, but my younger friends love them.

Peter


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Re: [MBZ] Jaime! A Poor Widow Needs Help!

[clay via Mercedes]

I take umbrage at the crack at the 8 track.  I resemble that remark in my SL.  
Right now I am trying to get the damn cassette adapter to spin up tapes.  The 8 
tracks play fine

clay

On Jul 28, 2014, at 6:11 PM, Tom Savage via Mercedes wrote:

> On Jul 28, 2014 10:52 AM, "Curt Raymond via Mercedes"
>> 
>> We did use my phone momentarily in Niagara Falls on the return trip, I
> wasn't sure where the hotel was as it was a different hotel than the
> outbound ride but the rest of the trip was all with a paper map...
>> 
>> -Curt
>> 
> 
> Of course I'd prefer to stick with my phone which is more or less always up
> to date and my trusty 1999 Rand McNally (probably due for an update), but
> the car comes with nav and it takes up a lot of prominent real estate on
> the dash.  Need to know I can expect to use it for the duration even though
> by time I'll be done with the car it will look as quaint as an in-dash 8
> track player does today.
> 
> Kids these days sure get a kick out of the tape deck in the 140.
> 
> Tom
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Re: [MBZ] Horse power vs. torque

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

IIRC, the V8 has more torque, which is what a truck needs.

Well, no.  Not really.  But sort of.


It's a good first approximation.  Torque maps to
acceleration, whereas horsepower maps to top speed.
A 200HP 400#' engine will likely be _far_ more drivable
than a 300HP 200#' engine, assuming equivalence in other
broad parameters.  (RPM range, reasonable number of
gears, etc.)

I seem to recall that the Cummins in my truck had
roughly the same HP rating as one of the gas engines,
but something like 2x the torque.  WAY more drivable
as a working truck.  The V10 meet or beat the diesel,
but had lots more horsepower and a considerably larger
fuel appetite.  My boss, who had one, said it would
pass anything but a gas station.  I think he got
around 10 MPG, not towing, whereas I got 20.

The 55HP Frankenheap (diesel) is much more pleasant to
drive around than the 90 HP 190D.  The 190D will kick
the heap's butt on high-speed road trips, though, and
get better mileage doing it.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] OT I am so angry

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Rich Thomas via Mercedes wrote:
I looked up the Montgomery Mall Sears, Yelp had a lot of mixed reviews 
on the service there for whatever that is worth.  There is a place right 
near where he lives that seems to have good reviews but not sure what 
their prices might be relative to the other place. There are also a 
coupla mobile brake guys who come to the car that have good reviews.  I 
emailed them both, one guy says he broke his foot so is out of 
commission for awhile.  Have not heard from the other one yet.


Didn't Andrew get his used oil at Sears?

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Today's cheap home brew Find

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

We have some 22 oz bombers here from new microbreweries.
On Jul 29, 2014 8:31 PM, "Peter Frederick via Mercedes" <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Lol, a bomber (besides Wilton) is a 20 oz bottle.  More than I can drink
> at a sitting these days, but my younger friends love them.
>
> Peter
>
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Re: [MBZ] Horse power vs. torque - was: OT: How is this game played exactly?

[Fmiser via Mercedes]

> OK wrote:
> 
> IIRC, the V8 has more torque, which is what a truck needs.

Well, no.  Not really.  But sort of.

Nothing against you Don, but this is a very common
miss-perception.  So I'm not picking on you - just using your
comment as motivation to respond. *smiles*

Torque is rotational force.  There can be torque with no movement.
Unless there is movement, no work is being done.

If there is torque, and movement occurs - then work is being done.
With a stopwatch (or calendar?) you can measure how fast the work
is being done.  This is horsepower [or watts].

If you have an engine with a fixed horsepower attached to a
transmission (presuming an infinite ratio and lossless - which
doesn't exist) the torque can be any value at all.  For high
torque, it will be moving slow - but for low torque it will be
moving fast.

If we don't change the diameter of the tire, the torque on the
axle necessary to pull a 4000 lb [1800 kg] trailer up
Grapevine out of Los Angeles is fixed.  So if your your 400 hp
pickup and my 7 hp garden tractor have the same size tire, the
torque needed is the same.  The difference is speed.  Your
pickup will get to the top a lot faster than my tractor
because the axle can turn faster because your engine has more
horsepower.

So far it's very clear - but then reality rears it's ugly
head.  Transmissions have fixed ratios and losses.  Engine
ratings are for _maximum_ horsepower - but the actual
horsepower and torque vary depending on speed.  This makes it
almost impossible to actually do an apples-to-apples
comparison.

Nevertheless, looking at the torque value is pretty
meaningless.  If you look at the torque values for various
engine RPM, you can get a clue as to how usable the
power is.  If there is little torque at low RPM, then high RPM
will be needed to get useable power.  This makes it feel like
the driver has to work the engine harder to get the job done.

So - to repeat.  Just a torque value is nearly meaningless.
Torque at a particular RPM is useful - but that is by
definition horsepower!

--  Philip

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Re: [MBZ] On my son the mechanic

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

I had the same problem with two Quantum lawn mower engines.  Seems as  
they age the safety brake cable that also runs the cut-off stretches a  
bit (and is non-adjustable, for obvious reasons) and the cut-off won't  
open to let it run.


Nearly drove me nuts finding it, as it was intermittant most of the  
time until it just flat quit.  Worst part was it would suddenly not  
start hot after emptying the bag.


Got one fixed, need to check the other (it's my trim mower).

Wonky wires cause all sorts of trouble.

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] Today's cheap home brew Find

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

Lol, a bomber (besides Wilton) is a 20 oz bottle.  More than I can  
drink at a sitting these days, but my younger friends love them.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] test e0azyhep

[Hendrik and Fay via Mercedes]

According to Plato: "Those who seek power are not worthy of that power." 



Hendrik
who a couple of years ago could not spell moderater and now is one

On 30/07/14 04:59, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:

Hmmm - you can't even spell Kaleb?
(or trim your posts)

On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Gary Hurst via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


i'm confident i can do it better than kleb does





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Re: [MBZ] Today's cheap home brew Find

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Changing topic slightly, turns out that most micro/craft whiskey is
actually not.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/28/your-craft-whiskey-is-probably-from-a-factory-distillery-in-indiana.html


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Re: [MBZ] Newer Mercedes Diesel

[Fred Moir via Mercedes]

Andrew.Yup, Rock on!

Fred Moir.Lynn MA.Diesel preferred.

Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 18:02:25 -0400
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Newer Mercedes Diesel
From: astrasfo...@gmail.com
To: fredh.s...@hotmail.com; mercedes@okiebenz.com

They still make Beetles??


On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 5:39 PM, Fred Moir via Mercedes  
wrote:

Curt, et al.My daughter bought a Beetle a couple of months ago at VW Gallery in 
Norwood on the (end of) the Automile, Providence Highway, and it was a painless 
procedure. We did do our homework beforehand.The two guys that we dealt with 
were all of the things that you would want and none of the BS. Service is due 
at 10,000 miles but will probably be performed in Bedford.YMMV


Fred Moir.Lynn MA.Diesel preferred.



> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 13:21:26 -0700

> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com

> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Newer Mercedes Diesel

> From: mercedes@okiebenz.com

>

> I briefly considered a Touareg to replace my Ranger. Theres a video on 
> Youtube of one in some serious offroad situations where it does remarkably 
> well considering its a fairly simple soft roader.

>

> I think the worst thing for VWs is that the dealers seem to be almost 
> universally schysters. Almost totally incompetent and unapologetic. 
> Unfortunately OK Don's experience seems to be mostly normal.

>

> -Curt   
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Re: [MBZ] OT I am so angry

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Ask the labor rate.  They are pretty much standard across the area, higher
at the dealers of course.  $90 seems to be the going rate.


On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 7:01 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I looked up the Montgomery Mall Sears, Yelp had a lot of mixed reviews on
> the service there for whatever that is worth.  There is a place right near
> where he lives that seems to have good reviews but not sure what their
> prices might be relative to the other place. There are also a coupla mobile
> brake guys who come to the car that have good reviews.  I emailed them
> both, one guy says he broke his foot so is out of commission for awhile.
>  Have not heard from the other one yet.
>
> --R
>
>
> On 7/29/14 6:22 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> OK, but do some due diligence first with the BBB.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 6:11 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>
>>  This sounds like a scam.  He should take it to the place Andrew
>>> recommended.
>>>
>>> Max Dillon,
>>> Charleston SC
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Re: [MBZ] OT I am so angry

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

I looked up the Montgomery Mall Sears, Yelp had a lot of mixed reviews 
on the service there for whatever that is worth.  There is a place right 
near where he lives that seems to have good reviews but not sure what 
their prices might be relative to the other place. There are also a 
coupla mobile brake guys who come to the car that have good reviews.  I 
emailed them both, one guy says he broke his foot so is out of 
commission for awhile.  Have not heard from the other one yet.


--R


On 7/29/14 6:22 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

OK, but do some due diligence first with the BBB.


On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 6:11 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


This sounds like a scam.  He should take it to the place Andrew
recommended.

Max Dillon,
Charleston SC
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Re: [MBZ] OT I am so angry

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

OK, but do some due diligence first with the BBB.


On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 6:11 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> This sounds like a scam.  He should take it to the place Andrew
> recommended.
>
> Max Dillon,
> Charleston SC
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Re: [MBZ] OT I am so angry

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

This sounds like a scam.  He should take it to the place Andrew
recommended.

Max Dillon,
Charleston SC
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Re: [MBZ] Newer Mercedes Diesel

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

They still make Beetles??


On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 5:39 PM, Fred Moir via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Curt, et al.My daughter bought a Beetle a couple of months ago at VW
> Gallery in Norwood on the (end of) the Automile, Providence Highway, and it
> was a painless procedure. We did do our homework beforehand.The two guys
> that we dealt with were all of the things that you would want and none of
> the BS. Service is due at 10,000 miles but will probably be performed in
> Bedford.YMMV
> Fred Moir.Lynn MA.Diesel preferred.
>
> > Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 13:21:26 -0700
> > To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> > Subject: Re: [MBZ] Newer Mercedes Diesel
> > From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> >
> > I briefly considered a Touareg to replace my Ranger. Theres a video on
> Youtube of one in some serious offroad situations where it does remarkably
> well considering its a fairly simple soft roader.
> >
> > I think the worst thing for VWs is that the dealers seem to be almost
> universally schysters. Almost totally incompetent and unapologetic.
> Unfortunately OK Don's experience seems to be mostly normal.
> >
> > -Curt
>
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Re: [MBZ] Today's cheap home brew Find

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

My criteria are value based:  I shop for beer based on the lowest cost per
percent of alcohol content, with a cutoff of 5%.


On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 3:26 PM, OK Don via Mercedes 
wrote:

> I drink porters also - my all time favorite is Fuller's London Porter,
> though I haven't seen those you mentioned. Santa Fe Brewing's State Pen
> Porter is the closest I've found to Fuller's. Fuller wan some award
> recently, and has changed from selling a six pack for a little too much
> money to selling in four packs at almost the same price, so I'm drinking
> State Pen Porter now.
> My wife likes Blue Moon - but not much else.
>
> I also don't need another hobby, but am being sorely tempted - - - -
> [I also have no idea what a bomber is, other than Wilton :-) ]
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Apparently I'm not up on the terminology, how much is a "bomber"?
> >
> > The last thing I need is another hobby and Angie doesn't like beer at
> all.
> > I drink maybe 1 gallon a year so home brewing would be a total waste for
> > me. I figure anything I get for less than $10 for a 20oz bottle isn't a
> bad
> > price. Most of my neighbors want to pay that for a 30 pack.
> >
> > I drink mostly dark beers, porter if I can get it. I've got a bottle of
> > Clown Shoes porter and one of Berkshire Brewing Coffeehouse porter in the
> > fridge right now. The latter is my absolute favorite, its good in the
> > bottle, best on nitro tap though.
> >
> > -Curt
> >
> >
>
> --
> OK Don
>
> NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!
>
> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> for themselves."
>
> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Newer Mercedes Diesel

[Fred Moir via Mercedes]

Curt, et al.My daughter bought a Beetle a couple of months ago at VW Gallery in 
Norwood on the (end of) the Automile, Providence Highway, and it was a painless 
procedure. We did do our homework beforehand.The two guys that we dealt with 
were all of the things that you would want and none of the BS. Service is due 
at 10,000 miles but will probably be performed in Bedford.YMMV
Fred Moir.Lynn MA.Diesel preferred.

> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 13:21:26 -0700
> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Newer Mercedes Diesel
> From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> 
> I briefly considered a Touareg to replace my Ranger. Theres a video on 
> Youtube of one in some serious offroad situations where it does remarkably 
> well considering its a fairly simple soft roader.
> 
> I think the worst thing for VWs is that the dealers seem to be almost 
> universally schysters. Almost totally incompetent and unapologetic. 
> Unfortunately OK Don's experience seems to be mostly normal.
> 
> -Curt
  
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Re: [MBZ] OT I am so angry

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

You are correct, trouble is him finding one.

--R


On 7/29/14 3:19 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes wrote:

Had a rusty hard line pop on a Toyota truck a few years ago. Midas put a new 
one in for under $100 out the door. Would have probably done it myself but by 
the time I bought the part, fluid, did the work, bleed, etc. I thought it was 
worth it.



An honest shop is worth its weight in gold. Unfortunately none of them are 
universally good. Most are franchises so it depends on the owner. My local 
Midas shop might be good, but that doesn't mean all of them are.



Allan
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Re: [MBZ] On my son the mechanic

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Nice!

We had a similar problem with our '52 Farmall at camp this year, it wouldn't 
fire at all until we wiggled some wires, then it would run but only at low rpm. 
We rewired the whole tractor (10 whole wires! :) ) and it runs great. We'd been 
having off and on problems with it bogging and running poorly, should have done 
this years ago.

-Curt



 From: Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
To: Rich Thomas ; Mercedes Discussion 
List  
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 3:27 PM
Subject: [MBZ] On my son the mechanic
 

I was quite proud of him this past weekend.

A family member of his new wife has a 97 GMC pickup with a diesel.
It has been causing trouble and the owner has had work done on it in a 
couple of shops without much success.
He asked my son to have a look at it.
My son said it was throwing a number of codes which he thought was unusual.
He started it up and let it idle and warm up and then started shaking 
electrical harness under the hood.
When he wiggled one, the engine faltered. He shook it a bit harder and 
the engine shut down.
I cannot recall what he said that harness controlled but something in 
the fuel injection I think. It was on the top of the engine on top of 
the intake manifold.
He took the connector apart and found some pins that looked a bit wonky. 
Straightened them up a bit and cleaned it a bit and put it back together.
It appears to be fixed.
He drove t all over on Sunday and took it to and from work yesterday and 
says so far it has not missed a beat.

An inexpensive fix if that cured it.

Randy




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Re: [MBZ] Newer Mercedes Diesel

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I briefly considered a Touareg to replace my Ranger. Theres a video on Youtube 
of one in some serious offroad situations where it does remarkably well 
considering its a fairly simple soft roader.

I think the worst thing for VWs is that the dealers seem to be almost 
universally schysters. Almost totally incompetent and unapologetic. 
Unfortunately OK Don's experience seems to be mostly normal.

-Curt



 From: LarryT 
To: Curt Raymond ; Mercedes Discussion List 
 
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Newer Mercedes Diesel
 


Is the VW Taureg held in the same low esteem as the rest of the VWs?

Larry


On 7/26/2014 7:57 PM, Curt Raymond wrote:

The Audi diesels are VW TDIs. Many of the parts on my Jetta have both the VW 
badge and the Audi linked rings.
>
>
>-Curt
>
>
>
>
> From: LarryT via Mercedes 
>To: clay ; Mercedes Discussion List 
> 
>Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 6:49 PM
>Subject: Re: [MBZ] Newer Mercedes Diesel
> 
>
>Yeah, I can see the problem with VW diesels are more owner
  problems than 
>VW problems although VW's are made to be utility vehicles
  - some look 
>better than others so they can sell as family cars but
  they are still 
>"economical" cars (read cheap) and they have always been. 
  when I was 
>working at the dealership we had a  list of parts that
  could be expected 
>to fail at xx miles - muffler was good for 20K, starters
  could go 60K 
>and so on - I am going from memory so my numbers may be
  off.  point is, 
>it's not a high end car as someone else pointed out.  and
  it won't last 
>like a MB - or like a MB should last.  If they built them
  like MBs they 
>would cost as much as MBs.
>
>OK - 2 questions:
>
>  *    does anyone have any experience with Audi diesels? 
  or I should
>    ask were there any audi diesels made in the 2000-2010
  time frame
>    that had good reputations?
>
>
>  * and has MBs quality problems from the late 90s to
  early 00s?
>
>
>Thanks ya'll - this is very helpful 
>Larryt
>
>On 7/26/2014 2:07 PM, clay wrote:
>> I was in the market for the passat TDI wagon a few
  years back, but 
>> decided to check with my cousin, since he sold them. 
  That was the 
>> swiftest scratch off the list conversation.  Ended up
  holding onto the 
>> E300D, and SWBMA purchased some korean sedan loaded
  with bells and 
>> whistles.  She is now dumping that for a toy oda.
>>
>>
>> clay
>>
>> 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored
  chap
>> 1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
>> 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
>> 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame
  in a SUV
>> POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 26, 2014, at 10:18 AM, LarryT via Mercedes
  wrote:
>>
>>> I agree - begore reading the comments on this
  list I would have had a 
>>> VW diesel near the top of my list.
>>>
>>> Sounds like I am back to MB -- if I can find one
  I can afford...
>>>
>>> Its a shame  -- I also was a fan of Passats an
  Jettas - would have 
>>> liked a wagon ..
>>>
>>> Larry
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/26/2014 9:01 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes
  wrote:
 That is insightful, as some time ago when I
  was looking for a car 
 for the youngest son I seriously considered
  both Jettas and Passats. 
  Nearly every used one I looked at had issues
  or a history of lousy 
 maintenance (if any.)

 My brother owned an early 2000s Passat that
  he bought new.  It was a 
 PITA from a parts standpoint, especially with
  window regulators for 
 some reason.  He got to the point where he
  just kept his right rear 
 window wedged in place, as they replaced I
  don't know how many 
 regulators.  The worst part was that when
  they did fail, none were 
 to be found in the States and they had to
  come from Germany.  Often 
 took 2-3 weeks or more.

 Too bad, as I like the Passat.

 Dan

 On Jul 26, 2014, at 8:01 AM, LarryT via
  Mercedes 
 mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote: 
>
>
>
>

> Wow - that's really interesting -- that
VW owners are so uncaring 
> about the upkeep of their cars.  I
wonder if they were leases or 
> owned?  Of course the data to be
analyzed is pretty extensive. IMO 
> most car shoppers are interestied oin
one thing - "what's my 
> ,onthly payment?"  Advertisers pounce
on this also - watch some car 
> commercials and all the push is ""only
$199/on

Re: [MBZ] test e0azyhep

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

arche...@embarqmail.com wrote:


Hi Mitch,
Thanks for forwarding these comments, and thanks in advance for sending 
mine back to Dan, Gary, Craig, and others.
Since the 300D decided to run no faster than idle speed (I had to be 
towed home), and since a long list of repairs and chores need to be done 
around the house and shop, I'll probably stay off the list until things 
are caught up.
I might have to sign back on the list for advice if I can't figure out 
what's wrong with the 300D, however.

Sincerely,
Gerry





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Re: [MBZ] OT I am so angry

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

You really need to be there so the tech can SHOW you what he's talking
about, then ask for the "book" that dictates hours per job,  The manager at
the Montgomery Mall, MD Sears auto center is quite ethical and their prices
are reasonable.  They took good care of me after I purchased and installed
used oil that was sitting on their shelf (you all remember that story I'm
sure).


On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 3:21 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> If you are not there and you cannot look at what he says is wrong, then
> you really do not know.
>
> My younger son is an automotive tech. Red Seal, licenced etc.
> He does good work very quickly as that is a required part of the job.
> I think the thing that upsets him the most is people who do not want him
> to do the job right.
> If he thinks it needs something and you don't want to have it repaired,
> then he would prefer not to work on it.
>
> What more can I say?
> Not all shops are bad.
>
> Randy
>
>
> On 29/07/2014 2:10 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> The boy in DC has been driving the 98 Cad.  Calls me the other day and
>> says the brake light has come on, brakes are a bit mushy, so I tell him to
>> take it to a shop.  He does that today.  They give him a quote of $703.  I
>> call and talk to the guy.  $80 for rear pads (I put new ones on the front
>> not that long ago, they are like $20 a set). $88x2 for rear rotors which
>> may be sorta reasonable, fluid and flush for $139, and $227 for labor.
>> Their labor rate was for 1.7hr.  $48 for "shop fees" which includes rags
>> and brake cleaner, a standard charge.  Total BS.  I guess that sorta adds
>> up with taxes and such.  Reluctantly after going over the fluid/flush
>> number (how hard is that?) I tell them to go ahead since he needs the car
>> and has no time to deal with this stuff and the car has not required a lot
>> of work over the years, so whatever.
>>
>> So then they call him and say there is a problem with the a brake line
>> leaking.  I am thinking maybe a flex line.  I call them back, the guy says
>> a front hard line is cracked or something and is leaking, which is why the
>> pedal was soft.  I ask what that will cost, he tells me the total is now
>> $1228.  Over $500 to replace a hard line?  WTF???  So I tell the guy that
>> seems quite excessive, a line is maybe $30 and how long to replace it?
>>  $500 labor to replace a line?  Then he tells me, well, you know, we have
>> to do flairs, and those are hard to get right, then there is
>> blahblahblah  I tell him to move the car out, my son will come get it
>> and take it somewhere else.  Then he starts in, "Well if you don't want
>> quality work done that's your choice" and I hang up.
>>
>> I am just so angry at these guys trying to screw over customers who are
>> sorta over a barrel.  The brake line thing is probably BS too but what are
>> you gonna do?  My wife had a patient who worked for a dealer as a mech, and
>> then for an indy, he would tell her these stories about how they would
>> "find" problems and jack the prices up, then do nothing to the car but
>> charge for it.  He said it was just standard behavior on all these guys he
>> had ever run across.  He finally quit and does work for people on the side,
>> cash, and said he was making OK money and happy he was doing the right
>> thing.
>>
>> So anyway I told him to go find a Sears or a Midas or something to do the
>> brake job, how hard can that be and it won't be anywhere near $1200.  I
>> know, Midas and Sears, but  Hell I could ship my tools and fly up there
>> and still be like $800 ahead.
>>
>> --R
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [MBZ] test e0azyhep

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Hmmm - you can't even spell Kaleb?
(or trim your posts)

On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Gary Hurst via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> i'm confident i can do it better than kleb does
>
>
>
-- 
OK Don

NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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[MBZ] On my son the mechanic

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

I was quite proud of him this past weekend.

A family member of his new wife has a 97 GMC pickup with a diesel.
It has been causing trouble and the owner has had work done on it in a 
couple of shops without much success.

He asked my son to have a look at it.
My son said it was throwing a number of codes which he thought was unusual.
He started it up and let it idle and warm up and then started shaking 
electrical harness under the hood.
When he wiggled one, the engine faltered. He shook it a bit harder and 
the engine shut down.
I cannot recall what he said that harness controlled but something in 
the fuel injection I think. It was on the top of the engine on top of 
the intake manifold.
He took the connector apart and found some pins that looked a bit wonky. 
Straightened them up a bit and cleaned it a bit and put it back together.

It appears to be fixed.
He drove t all over on Sunday and took it to and from work yesterday and 
says so far it has not missed a beat.


An inexpensive fix if that cured it.

Randy

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Re: [MBZ] Newer Mercedes Diesel

[LarryT via Mercedes]

Is the VW Taureg held in the same low esteem as the rest of the VWs?

Larry

On 7/26/2014 7:57 PM, Curt Raymond wrote:
The Audi diesels are VW TDIs. Many of the parts on my Jetta have both 
the VW badge and the Audi linked rings.


-Curt


*From:* LarryT via Mercedes 
*To:* clay ; Mercedes Discussion List 


*Sent:* Saturday, July 26, 2014 6:49 PM
*Subject:* Re: [MBZ] Newer Mercedes Diesel

Yeah, I can see the problem with VW diesels are more owner problems than
VW problems although VW's are made to be utility vehicles - some look
better than others so they can sell as family cars but they are still
"economical" cars (read cheap) and they have always been. when I was
working at the dealership we had a  list of parts that could be expected
to fail at xx miles - muffler was good for 20K, starters could go 60K
and so on - I am going from memory so my numbers may be off.  point is,
it's not a high end car as someone else pointed out.  and it won't last
like a MB - or like a MB should last.  If they built them like MBs they
would cost as much as MBs.

OK - 2 questions:

  *does anyone have any experience with Audi diesels? or I should
ask were there any audi diesels made in the 2000-2010 time frame
that had good reputations?


  * and has MBs quality problems from the late 90s to early 00s?


Thanks ya'll - this is very helpful 
Larryt

On 7/26/2014 2:07 PM, clay wrote:
> I was in the market for the passat TDI wagon a few years back, but
> decided to check with my cousin, since he sold them. That was the
> swiftest scratch off the list conversation.  Ended up holding onto the
> E300D, and SWBMA purchased some korean sedan loaded with bells and
> whistles.  She is now dumping that for a toy oda.
>
>
> clay
>
> 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored chap
> 1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
> 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
> 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
> POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 26, 2014, at 10:18 AM, LarryT via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> I agree - begore reading the comments on this list I would have had a
>> VW diesel near the top of my list.
>>
>> Sounds like I am back to MB -- if I can find one I can afford...
>>
>> Its a shame  -- I also was a fan of Passats an Jettas - would have
>> liked a wagon ..
>>
>> Larry
>>
>>
>> On 7/26/2014 9:01 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
>>> That is insightful, as some time ago when I was looking for a car
>>> for the youngest son I seriously considered both Jettas and Passats.
>>>  Nearly every used one I looked at had issues or a history of lousy
>>> maintenance (if any.)
>>>
>>> My brother owned an early 2000s Passat that he bought new.  It was a
>>> PITA from a parts standpoint, especially with window regulators for
>>> some reason.  He got to the point where he just kept his right rear
>>> window wedged in place, as they replaced I don't know how many
>>> regulators.  The worst part was that when they did fail, none were
>>> to be found in the States and they had to come from Germany.  Often
>>> took 2-3 weeks or more.
>>>
>>> Too bad, as I like the Passat.
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>> On Jul 26, 2014, at 8:01 AM, LarryT via Mercedes
>>> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
>> wrote:




>>>
 Wow - that's really interesting -- that VW owners are so uncaring
 about the upkeep of their cars.  I wonder if they were leases or
 owned?  Of course the data to be analyzed is pretty extensive. IMO
 most car shoppers are interestied oin one thing - "what's my
 ,onthly payment?"  Advertisers pounce on this also - watch some car
 commercials and all the push is ""only $199/onth!"  and on and on
 --  and when the shoppers show up they don't hear residuals,
 interest rates, etc - alll the noral things people should be
 interestied in when making a major Lease or purchase.Your
 cousins experience proves this out - unfortunately.  Our spiral
 down to becoming a "throw away society".

 So,  a CDI?  Are you pretty comfortable with the build quality?

 LarryT

>>>
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com 
>>>
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>>
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>>
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>>> those individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The
>>> list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each
>>> contributor.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>>
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Re: [MBZ] Today's cheap home brew Find

[OK Don via Mercedes]

I drink porters also - my all time favorite is Fuller's London Porter,
though I haven't seen those you mentioned. Santa Fe Brewing's State Pen
Porter is the closest I've found to Fuller's. Fuller wan some award
recently, and has changed from selling a six pack for a little too much
money to selling in four packs at almost the same price, so I'm drinking
State Pen Porter now.
My wife likes Blue Moon - but not much else.

I also don't need another hobby, but am being sorely tempted - - - -
[I also have no idea what a bomber is, other than Wilton :-) ]


On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Apparently I'm not up on the terminology, how much is a "bomber"?
>
> The last thing I need is another hobby and Angie doesn't like beer at all.
> I drink maybe 1 gallon a year so home brewing would be a total waste for
> me. I figure anything I get for less than $10 for a 20oz bottle isn't a bad
> price. Most of my neighbors want to pay that for a 30 pack.
>
> I drink mostly dark beers, porter if I can get it. I've got a bottle of
> Clown Shoes porter and one of Berkshire Brewing Coffeehouse porter in the
> fridge right now. The latter is my absolute favorite, its good in the
> bottle, best on nitro tap though.
>
> -Curt
>
>

-- 
OK Don

NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT I am so angry

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

If you are not there and you cannot look at what he says is wrong, then 
you really do not know.


My younger son is an automotive tech. Red Seal, licenced etc.
He does good work very quickly as that is a required part of the job.
I think the thing that upsets him the most is people who do not want him 
to do the job right.
If he thinks it needs something and you don't want to have it repaired, 
then he would prefer not to work on it.


What more can I say?
Not all shops are bad.

Randy

On 29/07/2014 2:10 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes wrote:
The boy in DC has been driving the 98 Cad.  Calls me the other day and 
says the brake light has come on, brakes are a bit mushy, so I tell 
him to take it to a shop.  He does that today.  They give him a quote 
of $703.  I call and talk to the guy.  $80 for rear pads (I put new 
ones on the front not that long ago, they are like $20 a set). $88x2 
for rear rotors which may be sorta reasonable, fluid and flush for 
$139, and $227 for labor. Their labor rate was for 1.7hr.  $48 for 
"shop fees" which includes rags and brake cleaner, a standard charge.  
Total BS.  I guess that sorta adds up with taxes and such.  
Reluctantly after going over the fluid/flush number (how hard is 
that?) I tell them to go ahead since he needs the car and has no time 
to deal with this stuff and the car has not required a lot of work 
over the years, so whatever.


So then they call him and say there is a problem with the a brake line 
leaking.  I am thinking maybe a flex line.  I call them back, the guy 
says a front hard line is cracked or something and is leaking, which 
is why the pedal was soft.  I ask what that will cost, he tells me the 
total is now $1228.  Over $500 to replace a hard line?  WTF???  So I 
tell the guy that seems quite excessive, a line is maybe $30 and how 
long to replace it?  $500 labor to replace a line?  Then he tells me, 
well, you know, we have to do flairs, and those are hard to get right, 
then there is blahblahblah  I tell him to move the car out, my son 
will come get it and take it somewhere else.  Then he starts in, "Well 
if you don't want quality work done that's your choice" and I hang 
up.


I am just so angry at these guys trying to screw over customers who 
are sorta over a barrel.  The brake line thing is probably BS too but 
what are you gonna do?  My wife had a patient who worked for a dealer 
as a mech, and then for an indy, he would tell her these stories about 
how they would "find" problems and jack the prices up, then do nothing 
to the car but charge for it.  He said it was just standard behavior 
on all these guys he had ever run across.  He finally quit and does 
work for people on the side, cash, and said he was making OK money and 
happy he was doing the right thing.


So anyway I told him to go find a Sears or a Midas or something to do 
the brake job, how hard can that be and it won't be anywhere near 
$1200.  I know, Midas and Sears, but  Hell I could ship my tools 
and fly up there and still be like $800 ahead.


--R






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Re: [MBZ] OT I am so angry

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Had a rusty hard line pop on a Toyota truck a few years ago. Midas put a new 
one in for under $100 out the door. Would have probably done it myself but by 
the time I bought the part, fluid, did the work, bleed, etc. I thought it was 
worth it.



An honest shop is worth its weight in gold. Unfortunately none of them are 
universally good. Most are franchises so it depends on the owner. My local 
Midas shop might be good, but that doesn't mean all of them are.



Allan
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Re: [MBZ] OT I am so angry

[Gary Hurst via Mercedes]

shops gouge you.  depending on how busy they are and who he talks to, that
same job is 400 instead of 1200.  i guess the microecoomist calls this
"price discrimation".  you get what you can and that is different from
everyone

there is someone who will do this job for less than half and do it well
enough.  he's just gotta go talk to people to find it


On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 3:10 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> The boy in DC has been driving the 98 Cad.  Calls me the other day and
> says the brake light has come on, brakes are a bit mushy, so I tell him to
> take it to a shop.  He does that today.  They give him a quote of $703.  I
> call and talk to the guy.  $80 for rear pads (I put new ones on the front
> not that long ago, they are like $20 a set). $88x2 for rear rotors which
> may be sorta reasonable, fluid and flush for $139, and $227 for labor.
>  Their labor rate was for 1.7hr.  $48 for "shop fees" which includes rags
> and brake cleaner, a standard charge.  Total BS.  I guess that sorta adds
> up with taxes and such.  Reluctantly after going over the fluid/flush
> number (how hard is that?) I tell them to go ahead since he needs the car
> and has no time to deal with this stuff and the car has not required a lot
> of work over the years, so whatever.
>
> So then they call him and say there is a problem with the a brake line
> leaking.  I am thinking maybe a flex line.  I call them back, the guy says
> a front hard line is cracked or something and is leaking, which is why the
> pedal was soft.  I ask what that will cost, he tells me the total is now
> $1228.  Over $500 to replace a hard line?  WTF???  So I tell the guy that
> seems quite excessive, a line is maybe $30 and how long to replace it?
>  $500 labor to replace a line?  Then he tells me, well, you know, we have
> to do flairs, and those are hard to get right, then there is
> blahblahblah  I tell him to move the car out, my son will come get it
> and take it somewhere else.  Then he starts in, "Well if you don't want
> quality work done that's your choice" and I hang up.
>
> I am just so angry at these guys trying to screw over customers who are
> sorta over a barrel.  The brake line thing is probably BS too but what are
> you gonna do?  My wife had a patient who worked for a dealer as a mech, and
> then for an indy, he would tell her these stories about how they would
> "find" problems and jack the prices up, then do nothing to the car but
> charge for it.  He said it was just standard behavior on all these guys he
> had ever run across.  He finally quit and does work for people on the side,
> cash, and said he was making OK money and happy he was doing the right
> thing.
>
> So anyway I told him to go find a Sears or a Midas or something to do the
> brake job, how hard can that be and it won't be anywhere near $1200.  I
> know, Midas and Sears, but  Hell I could ship my tools and fly up there
> and still be like $800 ahead.
>
> --R
>
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
> All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those
> individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner
> has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
>



-- 


*reliable vendor of superior parts for mercedes and other european cars*
*www.BuyEUROparts.com *
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[MBZ] OT I am so angry

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

The boy in DC has been driving the 98 Cad.  Calls me the other day and 
says the brake light has come on, brakes are a bit mushy, so I tell him 
to take it to a shop.  He does that today.  They give him a quote of 
$703.  I call and talk to the guy.  $80 for rear pads (I put new ones on 
the front not that long ago, they are like $20 a set). $88x2 for rear 
rotors which may be sorta reasonable, fluid and flush for $139, and $227 
for labor.  Their labor rate was for 1.7hr.  $48 for "shop fees" which 
includes rags and brake cleaner, a standard charge.  Total BS.  I guess 
that sorta adds up with taxes and such.  Reluctantly after going over 
the fluid/flush number (how hard is that?) I tell them to go ahead since 
he needs the car and has no time to deal with this stuff and the car has 
not required a lot of work over the years, so whatever.


So then they call him and say there is a problem with the a brake line 
leaking.  I am thinking maybe a flex line.  I call them back, the guy 
says a front hard line is cracked or something and is leaking, which is 
why the pedal was soft.  I ask what that will cost, he tells me the 
total is now $1228.  Over $500 to replace a hard line?  WTF???  So I 
tell the guy that seems quite excessive, a line is maybe $30 and how 
long to replace it?  $500 labor to replace a line?  Then he tells me, 
well, you know, we have to do flairs, and those are hard to get right, 
then there is blahblahblah  I tell him to move the car out, my son 
will come get it and take it somewhere else.  Then he starts in, "Well 
if you don't want quality work done that's your choice" and I hang up.


I am just so angry at these guys trying to screw over customers who are 
sorta over a barrel.  The brake line thing is probably BS too but what 
are you gonna do?  My wife had a patient who worked for a dealer as a 
mech, and then for an indy, he would tell her these stories about how 
they would "find" problems and jack the prices up, then do nothing to 
the car but charge for it.  He said it was just standard behavior on all 
these guys he had ever run across.  He finally quit and does work for 
people on the side, cash, and said he was making OK money and happy he 
was doing the right thing.


So anyway I told him to go find a Sears or a Midas or something to do 
the brake job, how hard can that be and it won't be anywhere near 
$1200.  I know, Midas and Sears, but  Hell I could ship my tools and 
fly up there and still be like $800 ahead.


--R



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Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

If so that's a big drop from last month's rates of 4.3x


On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 12:57 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Still in the 3s I think. We refi'd last year to 4.125% down from 7.3%
> which we'd accepted because we got a 100% mortgage. The 4.125% is a little
> higher than we could have gotten except that we were over on the mortgage
> to the tune of $60,000. Thats closed to maybe $40,000 now and shrinking
> since our new mortgage (25 year vs 30 before) pays principle much faster
> and our value is increasing rapidly.
>
> -Curt
>
>
> 
>  From: Andrew Strasfogel 
> To: Curt Raymond ; Mercedes Discussion List <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 12:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?
>
>
>
> What's the best deal on a 30 year mortgage these days?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 12:42 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> My local credit union is saying 2.79% for 60 or 2.49% for 48. Based on the
> link you posted yesterday I wonder if they'd pre-approve me for a quick
> sale. I'm assuming $25k is possible for what I want, if I could get $23k it
> might be worth it.
> >
> >-Curt
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Mitch Haley 
> >To: Curt Raymond ; Mercedes Discussion List <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> >Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 12:36 PM
> >Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?
> >
> >
> >
> >Penfed will refi a 2013, 2014, or 2015 for $1.49% for 36 months, 2.24%
> for 60
> >
> >
> >
> >months.
> >
> >https://www.penfed.org/refinance-auto-loan/
> >___
> >http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
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> >
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> >
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> individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner
> has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
> >
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> individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner
> has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Still in the 3s I think. We refi'd last year to 4.125% down from 7.3% which 
we'd accepted because we got a 100% mortgage. The 4.125% is a little higher 
than we could have gotten except that we were over on the mortgage to the tune 
of $60,000. Thats closed to maybe $40,000 now and shrinking since our new 
mortgage (25 year vs 30 before) pays principle much faster and our value is 
increasing rapidly.

-Curt



 From: Andrew Strasfogel 
To: Curt Raymond ; Mercedes Discussion List 
 
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?
 


What's the best deal on a 30 year mortgage these days?






On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 12:42 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
 wrote:

My local credit union is saying 2.79% for 60 or 2.49% for 48. Based on the link 
you posted yesterday I wonder if they'd pre-approve me for a quick sale. I'm 
assuming $25k is possible for what I want, if I could get $23k it might be 
worth it.
>
>-Curt
>
>
>
> From: Mitch Haley 
>To: Curt Raymond ; Mercedes Discussion List 
>
>Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 12:36 PM
>Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?
>
>
>
>Penfed will refi a 2013, 2014, or 2015 for $1.49% for 36 months, 2.24% for 60
>
>
>
>months.
>
>https://www.penfed.org/refinance-auto-loan/
>___
>http://www.okiebenz.com
>
>To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
>To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
>All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those 
>individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner has 
>no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

What's the best deal on a 30 year mortgage these days?


On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 12:42 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> My local credit union is saying 2.79% for 60 or 2.49% for 48. Based on the
> link you posted yesterday I wonder if they'd pre-approve me for a quick
> sale. I'm assuming $25k is possible for what I want, if I could get $23k it
> might be worth it.
>
> -Curt
>
>
> 
>  From: Mitch Haley 
> To: Curt Raymond ; Mercedes Discussion List <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 12:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?
>
>
> Penfed will refi a 2013, 2014, or 2015 for $1.49% for 36 months, 2.24% for
> 60
>
>
>
> months.
>
> https://www.penfed.org/refinance-auto-loan/
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

My local credit union is saying 2.79% for 60 or 2.49% for 48. Based on the link 
you posted yesterday I wonder if they'd pre-approve me for a quick sale. I'm 
assuming $25k is possible for what I want, if I could get $23k it might be 
worth it.

-Curt



 From: Mitch Haley 
To: Curt Raymond ; Mercedes Discussion List 
 
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?
 

Penfed will refi a 2013, 2014, or 2015 for $1.49% for 36 months, 2.24% for 60 



months.

https://www.penfed.org/refinance-auto-loan/
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Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Penfed will refi a 2013, 2014, or 2015 for $1.49% for 36 months, 2.24% for 60 
months.


https://www.penfed.org/refinance-auto-loan/

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Re: [MBZ] test e0azyhep

[Gary Hurst via Mercedes]

not even for me?


On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 12:24 PM, Craig via Mercedes 
wrote:

> On Tue, 29 Jul 2014 09:59:36 -0400 Mitch Haley via Mercedes
>  wrote:
>
> > Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
> > > Gary,
> > >
> > > That being the case, Gerry's only option is to find another ISP or do
> > > what most people appear to be doing if they don't want to change
> >
> > He could always go to gmail as suggested, or I'd give him a
> > mitchellhaley.com address, or I suspect Craig would give him a mailbox
> > at pisquared.net
>
> I'm not in a position to set up a separate mailbox for someone else.
>
>
> Craig
>
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> has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
>



-- 


*reliable vendor of superior parts for mercedes and other european cars*
*www.BuyEUROparts.com *
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Re: [MBZ] test e0azyhep

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Tue, 29 Jul 2014 09:59:36 -0400 Mitch Haley via Mercedes
 wrote:

> Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
> > Gary,
> >
> > That being the case, Gerry's only option is to find another ISP or do
> > what most people appear to be doing if they don't want to change
> 
> He could always go to gmail as suggested, or I'd give him a
> mitchellhaley.com address, or I suspect Craig would give him a mailbox
> at pisquared.net

I'm not in a position to set up a separate mailbox for someone else.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Whoops!

Ran it one more time adding in a $7000 downpayment (which doesn't include my 
Ranger for trade) and got a different answer, now the interest at 2.9% is down 
to $1226.18 in interest.
Actually at this point the payments are down to the point I can start to thing 
about a 48 month loan where Ford will give me 1.9% and the total interest is 
only $638.18.

Of course Friday these deals go away... I've got some time Thursday, probably 
ought to go see if I can find a salesman with a real sharp pencil.

-Curt



 From: Curt Raymond 
To: Curt Raymond ; Mercedes Discussion List 
 
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?
 


Somebody check me on this one...
I found an online calculator that says if I finance $25,000 at 5.8% the 
interest paid in the first 3 car payments is $357.27
If I then refi at 2.72% which Bankrate says was last week's average my total 
interest would be $1766.80 for a grand total interest paid of $2124.07

If I got 0.9% on the same $25,000 the total interest paid is $576.09.
$2124.07 minus $576.09 is $1547.98 so if I'm giving up the better interest rate 
for cash back I'm actually LOSING $47.98 plus I have to fart around with 
refinancing so it'd be better to stick with the 0.9% in the first place.

Worse yet (for the dealer I went to Sunday anyway) when I Google I find Ford's 
incentives page, they'll give me 0.0% for 60 months with $750 trade in 
assistance or $1,000 and 2.9% on 60 months AND $750 trade assistance.
Even with that I'm paying $1745.38 in interest that I wouldn't pay at the 0.0% 
rate right? So unless Ford gives me more than $1745.38 in incentives I'm better 
off taking the 0.0% interest.

-Curt
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Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Somebody check me on this one...
I found an online calculator that says if I finance $25,000 at 5.8% the 
interest paid in the first 3 car payments is $357.27
If I then refi at 2.72% which Bankrate says was last week's average my total 
interest would be $1766.80 for a grand total interest paid of $2124.07

If I got 0.9% on the same $25,000 the total interest paid is $576.09.
$2124.07 minus $576.09 is $1547.98 so if I'm giving up the better interest rate 
for cash back I'm actually LOSING $47.98 plus I have to fart around with 
refinancing so it'd be better to stick with the 0.9% in the first place.

Worse yet (for the dealer I went to Sunday anyway) when I Google I find Ford's 
incentives page, they'll give me 0.0% for 60 months with $750 trade in 
assistance or $1,000 and 2.9% on 60 months AND $750 trade assistance.
Even with that I'm paying $1745.38 in interest that I wouldn't pay at the 0.0% 
rate right? So unless Ford gives me more than $1745.38 in incentives I'm better 
off taking the 0.0% interest.

-Curt



 From: Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
To: Mercedes Discussion List  
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?
 

The question of the note is an interesting one. Right now Ford will offer 0.9% 
financing OR $1500 off. The dealership noted that to get the $1500 off you end 
up with something like 5.8% financing but after 3 payments (and 90 days) you 
could refinance into something much lower like 2.8% and that they do a lot of 
that.
I need to run some numbers and see if that system with the $1500 is a better 
deal than 0.9% overall.

-Curt
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Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

The question of the note is an interesting one. Right now Ford will offer 0.9% 
financing OR $1500 off. The dealership noted that to get the $1500 off you end 
up with something like 5.8% financing but after 3 payments (and 90 days) you 
could refinance into something much lower like 2.8% and that they do a lot of 
that.
I need to run some numbers and see if that system with the $1500 is a better 
deal than 0.9% overall.

-Curt



 From: Dan Penoff 
To: Curt Raymond ; Mercedes List  
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?
 

The "buy it new and run it into the ground" can make sense if you're carrying 
the paper for 0% or paying cash.  That's about the only way you can amortize 
the depreciation and break even or possibly come out ahead in my book.

The wife's 2005 Mazda 6s will be ten years old next year.  It's got 133k on it 
and is still worth about $5k as a private party sale.  We paid around $22k for 
it in 2005 and carried the paper for four years at something stupidly low, like 
1%.

Repairs over its life have been around $2600 so far, not including maintenance. 
 I'm thinking we've gotten our money's worth out of the car.  Next year it's 
either a new car for her at 0% or a late model used car.  it will all depend on 
the bank rates at the time.

You're probably even better off when you consider the resale of a Ford truck.  
You've seen what the used ones bring, so you already know it will hold its 
value for a long, long time.

Have you considered the "Internet blast" approach?  Pick out a number of 
dealers in the area online, give them the specs on the truck you want, and let 
them give you a quote.  They're a lot more aggressive this way, as they know 
you're not screwing around.  You want to be sure they know you're shopping 
everyone and that they get one and only one shot.  You alos don't have to mess 
with the game playing that way, too.


Dan




On Jul 28, 2014, at 7:17 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes  
wrote:

> Toyota seems the least likely to deal. Used sellers of Toyotas seem to think 
> that every time they've farted in the seats its raised the price $1000.
> 
> I was unhappy at the Ford dealership at first, it was the old school "come in 
> and lets talk about things." Where what we really wanted was to drive some 
> trucks but in the end it worked out as we realized that we could probably end 
> up with a better deal on a brand new truck than a used one. I think spending 
> $25,000 and running it for 15 years will make more sense than spending 
> $10,000 every 5 years.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Today's cheap home brew Find

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Apparently I'm not up on the terminology, how much is a "bomber"?

The last thing I need is another hobby and Angie doesn't like beer at all. I 
drink maybe 1 gallon a year so home brewing would be a total waste for me. I 
figure anything I get for less than $10 for a 20oz bottle isn't a bad price. 
Most of my neighbors want to pay that for a 30 pack.

I drink mostly dark beers, porter if I can get it. I've got a bottle of Clown 
Shoes porter and one of Berkshire Brewing Coffeehouse porter in the fridge 
right now. The latter is my absolute favorite, its good in the bottle, best on 
nitro tap though.

-Curt



 From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes 
To: clay ; Mercedes Discussion List 
 
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Today's cheap home brew Find
 

I was at the likka sto a coupla months ago stocking up on wine and 
stuff, saw a bomber of this beer that a friend had said was really good 
so I put that in the trolley to try it.  Did not see the price, figured 
it was in line with all the others around.  I had coupons and such for 
the wine and some beer, so I "saved" a bit on it all. I get home and 
look at the receipt and that bomber was $7.99!  Most of my wine was in 
that price range!  So I drank it, was nothing particularly special but 
tasty enough.  My brews were as good or better than that, and a bomber 
comes out to maybe $1.50 or $2.  So unless I am hard pressed to buy 
stuff, or just want a bit of variety on something, its home brews all 
the way.  With my buddies brewing now, we can swap stuff so I can have 4 
or 6 different brews in stock, and it keeps changing.  If I like 
something I can make it again.

My buddy made a porter when I made my hoppy brown ale 3 weeks ago, I had 
that last night and it was very good.  My hoppy brown was good but maybe 
a tad bitter, drinkable but not the best I have had.  I have a Strong 
Scotch Ale bubbling away that I brewed Sunday, it smelled really good 
while I was boiling it.

--R


On 7/28/14 6:46 PM, clay via Mercedes wrote:
> After that long in the game, the equipment has long paid for itself.  The 
> bottles are exceedingly easy to source from places like Freecycle or the 
> local recycle bins.  I prefer Grolsch type rubber seal bottles, but the 
> larger martinelli cider bottles are good for capping and gifting.
>
> Given the retail prices of craft beers, there is huge cost savings in brewing 
> your own.  I am not in the mood to drop $4-16 for a 22oz craft swill.  I can 
> whip something like that up, five gallons at a time and fill racks with great 
> beer for under $1.50 a bottle.  All top shelf ingredients and free labor.
>
>
> clay
>
> 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored chap
> 1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
> 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
> 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
> POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 27, 2014, at 5:16 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> Lol, I've been home brewing for a couple decades now.
>>
>> You can indeed make decent beer at much less cost that the main line brews 
>> bought at the liquor store, and you can make things that were once 
>> unobtainable.
>>
>> In the last twenty years, the quality of microbrewery beer has increased 
>> quite a bit, but I still don't like super hoppy beer, so I make the stuff I 
>> do like, such as the recent Honey Blonde Ale that is getting rave reviews -- 
>> with honey from my own hives to boot.
>>
>> It's a great hobby, and not all that expensive once you get the basic gear.
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>> All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those 
>> individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner has 
>> no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.



> ___
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
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> individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner has 
> no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
>


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Re: [MBZ] Today's cheap home brew Find

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

I was at the likka sto a coupla months ago stocking up on wine and 
stuff, saw a bomber of this beer that a friend had said was really good 
so I put that in the trolley to try it.  Did not see the price, figured 
it was in line with all the others around.  I had coupons and such for 
the wine and some beer, so I "saved" a bit on it all. I get home and 
look at the receipt and that bomber was $7.99!  Most of my wine was in 
that price range!  So I drank it, was nothing particularly special but 
tasty enough.  My brews were as good or better than that, and a bomber 
comes out to maybe $1.50 or $2.  So unless I am hard pressed to buy 
stuff, or just want a bit of variety on something, its home brews all 
the way.  With my buddies brewing now, we can swap stuff so I can have 4 
or 6 different brews in stock, and it keeps changing.  If I like 
something I can make it again.


My buddy made a porter when I made my hoppy brown ale 3 weeks ago, I had 
that last night and it was very good.  My hoppy brown was good but maybe 
a tad bitter, drinkable but not the best I have had.  I have a Strong 
Scotch Ale bubbling away that I brewed Sunday, it smelled really good 
while I was boiling it.


--R


On 7/28/14 6:46 PM, clay via Mercedes wrote:

After that long in the game, the equipment has long paid for itself.  The 
bottles are exceedingly easy to source from places like Freecycle or the local 
recycle bins.  I prefer Grolsch type rubber seal bottles, but the larger 
martinelli cider bottles are good for capping and gifting.

Given the retail prices of craft beers, there is huge cost savings in brewing 
your own.  I am not in the mood to drop $4-16 for a 22oz craft swill.  I can 
whip something like that up, five gallons at a time and fill racks with great 
beer for under $1.50 a bottle.  All top shelf ingredients and free labor.


clay

2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored chap
1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers








On Jul 27, 2014, at 5:16 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes wrote:


Lol, I've been home brewing for a couple decades now.

You can indeed make decent beer at much less cost that the main line brews 
bought at the liquor store, and you can make things that were once unobtainable.

In the last twenty years, the quality of microbrewery beer has increased quite 
a bit, but I still don't like super hoppy beer, so I make the stuff I do like, 
such as the recent Honey Blonde Ale that is getting rave reviews -- with honey 
from my own hives to boot.

It's a great hobby, and not all that expensive once you get the basic gear.



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Re: [MBZ] test e0azyhep

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I think he could be the only email at deadsledwrenchers.net, I've never tried 
to set up mailboxes on there but I think I get a bunch of 'em...



 From: Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
To: Gerry Archer ; Mercedes Discussion List 
 
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 9:59 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] test e0azyhep
 

Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
> Gary,
>
> That being the case, Gerry's only option is to find another ISP or do what 
> most people appear to be doing if they don't want to change

He could always go to gmail as suggested, or I'd give him a mitchellhaley.com 
address, or I suspect Craig would give him a mailbox at pisquared.net

Mitch.






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Re: [MBZ] test e0azyhep

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

Gary,

That being the case, Gerry's only option is to find another ISP or do what most 
people appear to be doing if they don't want to change


He could always go to gmail as suggested, or I'd give him a mitchellhaley.com 
address, or I suspect Craig would give him a mailbox at pisquared.net


Mitch.



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Re: [MBZ] test e0azyhep

[Gary Hurst via Mercedes]

i'm confident i can do it better than kleb does


On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 9:54 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Gary,
>
> In order to moderate you've got to be able to manage the back end, too.
>
> I did a fair amount of research and found many, many complaints with
> similar issues origination with Embarq and their parent, Synacor. These are
> the companies that host Gerry's mail servers.
>
> There are issues with their SMTP servers and how they are handling
> traffic, forcing recipient domains to have to set up SPFs to be able to
> accept mail from them.
>
> This, I suspect, is the reason why Gerry's emails are continuously bounced
> by Okiebenz regardless of the list management settings.  There are no
> settings or "filters" we can change. It's not the list or it's domain that
> are the problem - it's Gerry's ISP.
>
> That being the case, Gerry's only option is to find another ISP or do what
> most people appear to be doing if they don't want to change - set up mail
> relaying through a free service like GMail.
>
> Dan
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Jul 29, 2014, at 3:30 AM, Gary Hurst via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > I think what gerry means to ask is why I am not a moderator as you are
> > perpetually asleep at the wheel.  It seems a great question to me.
> > On Jul 28, 2014 10:56 PM, "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >> There are no filters that I am going to adjust. They have already been
> >> adjusted.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
>  On Jul 28, 2014, at 8:48 PM, Archer75--- via Mercedes <
> >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Since it looks like Kaleb is too busy to adjust the filters on the
> >> Mercedes List; (or he might not want to since they may be related to
> other
> >> type problems for other members); I'll be signing off the list for a
> while.
> >>>
> >>> If I don't get back on the list, many thanks to all who have helped me
> >> with diagnosis, repair, and friendship.
> >>>
> >>> Gerry
> >>>
> >>> ...
> >>>
> > On 7/28/2014 7:50 PM, Archer75--- via Mercedes wrote:
> > On 7/28/2014 7:10 PM, arche...@embarqmail.com wrote:
> > test
> 
> 
>  ___
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> 
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>  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 
>  All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those
> >> individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner
> has
> >> no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>>
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> >>>
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> >>>
> >>> All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those
> >> individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner
> >> has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
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To search

Re: [MBZ] test e0azyhep

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Gary,

In order to moderate you've got to be able to manage the back end, too.

I did a fair amount of research and found many, many complaints with similar 
issues origination with Embarq and their parent, Synacor. These are the 
companies that host Gerry's mail servers.

There are issues with their SMTP servers and how they are handling traffic, 
forcing recipient domains to have to set up SPFs to be able to accept mail from 
them.

This, I suspect, is the reason why Gerry's emails are continuously bounced by 
Okiebenz regardless of the list management settings.  There are no settings or 
"filters" we can change. It's not the list or it's domain that are the problem 
- it's Gerry's ISP.

That being the case, Gerry's only option is to find another ISP or do what most 
people appear to be doing if they don't want to change - set up mail relaying 
through a free service like GMail.

Dan

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 29, 2014, at 3:30 AM, Gary Hurst via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I think what gerry means to ask is why I am not a moderator as you are
> perpetually asleep at the wheel.  It seems a great question to me.
> On Jul 28, 2014 10:56 PM, "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> There are no filters that I am going to adjust. They have already been
>> adjusted.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Jul 28, 2014, at 8:48 PM, Archer75--- via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Since it looks like Kaleb is too busy to adjust the filters on the
>> Mercedes List; (or he might not want to since they may be related to other
>> type problems for other members); I'll be signing off the list for a while.
>>> 
>>> If I don't get back on the list, many thanks to all who have helped me
>> with diagnosis, repair, and friendship.
>>> 
>>> Gerry
>>> 
>>> ...
>>> 
> On 7/28/2014 7:50 PM, Archer75--- via Mercedes wrote:
> On 7/28/2014 7:10 PM, arche...@embarqmail.com wrote:
> test
 
 
 ___
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 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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 All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those
>> individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has
>> no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> 
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>>> 
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>>> 
>>> All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those
>> individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner
>> has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
>> 
>> ___
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>> 
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>> 
>> All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those
>> individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner
>> has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
> ___
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> 
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> 
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> All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those 
> individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner has 
> no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Parts of the AlCan are still pretty rough. Expect to replace a windshield by 
the end of the trip.

She is psycho, isn't she?

Put the car on a barge or ship in Portland or Seattle and fly up.  This is a 
daily thing around there. Seattle and Portland are the Sam's Club and Costco 
for Alaska.

Dan

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 28, 2014, at 7:13 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> So is this effort your part in getting her to be gone?
> 
> --R
> 
> 
>> On 7/28/14 7:04 PM, clay via Mercedes wrote:
>> Lies, mischaracterizations, obfuscation and deceit.
>> 
>> That is how cars are sold.
>> 
>> SWMBA wants to drive the AlCan to get to her new abode.  The korean sedan 
>> will not meet her needs, so she decided a used Rav4 would.  No research was 
>> done on her part and she blithely wanders into a few places she found a 
>> suitable example from CL.  I had bothered to bone up on the cars and kept my 
>> mouth shut except when it got thick and silly.  We wasted a weekend test 
>> driving the things and having mouth breathers  bloviate about the wonderful 
>> deals they would make her.  I told her it was her decision, as I would not 
>> be driving the thing.
>> 
>> Last Friday, after I had to field calls from sales critters  (she did not 
>> want to divulge her corporate #), I told her to check back with the 
>> persistent feller at the toy oda shop.  Most of the places she looked were 
>> selling auction cars and marked up stickers.  They thought the cars were 
>> pooped out by the almighty himself and would not negotiate or get close to 
>> her price.  The guy at the toad lot got the sweetest deal by having the car 
>> be CPO, dropped closest to her price, and then negotiations hit a bump.  No 
>> more room they said.
>> 
>> She is texting me at work to get my take.  I tell her to pit the three shops 
>> with the cars she likes against each other.  Call one shop while at the desk 
>> waiting for the critter to get back from chatting up his manager.  Pull up 
>> other listings while she waits.  Get up and get a cup of tea and snack, then 
>> walk outside for fresh air.  An hour later, the rock bottom price they can 
>> offer is stated.  No wiggle room for them, and still not making her happy.  
>> I tell her to make them sweeten the pot with goodies, like weather beater 
>> carpet covers, and tchotkes that really will cost them nothing, but would 
>> make her feel she got a deal.
>> 
>> Now she wants me to fully detail her sedan.  That is not going to happen.  I 
>> told her to spend the cash for a shop to do it, because I need to spend at 
>> least that much to get supplies stocked to do the job right.
>> 
>> 
>> clay
>> 
>> 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored chap
>> 1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
>> 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
>> 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
>> POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 27, 2014, at 6:23 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
>>> 
>>> Trip #3 to try out new trucks took us to a Mazda dealership that had a 2010 
>>> Chevy Silverado and 2010 Ford 150. We decided we liked the Ford better but 
>>> it was a crew cab (and $28k).
>>> 
>>> We don't need a crew cab full size so we decided to go over to the Ford 
>>> dealer who actually persuaded us that it made more sense to look at a new 
>>> truck than used. We drove a 2014 F150 STX access cab, which is I guess 
>>> pretty much the base model, cloth seats, rubber floor mat, 5.0l v8. Its 
>>> still pretty fancy, 6spd auto, satellite radio, AC blows ice cold :) 4wd 
>>> with electronic locking rear diff.
>>> 

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Re: [MBZ] Jaime! A Poor Widow Needs Help!

[Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes]

Hi Ned,

Updated maps are released annually.  My department does the final testing
on them.

And house numbers are certainly available... usually down to the precision
of one block.  What isn't available is an interpolation to position the
destination exactly on that block (which is often inaccurate in other
systems for a variety of reasons).  But if you have a street several miles
long, you should be able to choose from a range of house numbers in the
form of something like 1..99, 101..199, etc.  This also depends on map
data:  if you live in a rural area, you'll greatly benefit from a new disc
as detailed coverage has improved significantly.

Jaime



On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 10:57 PM, ned kleinhenz via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I have the original window sticker from my recently acquired 2006 E320 CDI.
>
> It shows a Comand system including harmon/kardon Logic7 surround sound with
> a 6 CD changer and DVD navigation.  The Command system along with a glass
> sun -roof, powered rear window shade, and heated front seats cost the PO
> $2950.  It also has a $500 Sirius Satellite, which I’ve never activated.
>
>
>
> The sound system is awesome.  It puts out something like 430 watts to more
> speakers than I can find.  And the tuner gets great reception in spite of
> the antenna being embedded in the back window.
>
>
>
> But the navigation system is lame.  My circa 2008 Garmin Nuvi runs rings
> around it.   This Comand unit can only navigate to a street or road.  There
> seems to be no way to key in a house number.  Makes it worse than useless
> in communities where there are multiple roads with the same name but each
> has different ranges of house numbers.  I think the navigation system can
> be updated by inserting a new DVD in the trunk-mounted unit.  But I have
> never seen an update newer than 2008.   And that update costs about 2X or
> 3X the price of a new Garmin.
>
>
>
> It’s reassuring to hear the Comand is robust.  If it goes bad many readouts
> on the dash would quit working.   Even the analog clock in the dash is
> controlled by the navigation system.
>
>
>
> Ned Kleinhenz
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>



-- 
Jaime Kopchinski
http://www.jaimekop.com/
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Re: [MBZ] test e0azyhep

[Gary Hurst via Mercedes]

I think what gerry means to ask is why I am not a moderator as you are
perpetually asleep at the wheel.  It seems a great question to me.
On Jul 28, 2014 10:56 PM, "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> There are no filters that I am going to adjust. They have already been
> adjusted.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 28, 2014, at 8:48 PM, Archer75--- via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > Since it looks like Kaleb is too busy to adjust the filters on the
> Mercedes List; (or he might not want to since they may be related to other
> type problems for other members); I'll be signing off the list for a while.
> >
> > If I don't get back on the list, many thanks to all who have helped me
> with diagnosis, repair, and friendship.
> >
> > Gerry
> >
> > ...
> >
> >> On 7/28/2014 7:50 PM, Archer75--- via Mercedes wrote:
> >>> On 7/28/2014 7:10 PM, arche...@embarqmail.com wrote:
> >>> test
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
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> >>
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> >>
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> >>
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> individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has
> no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
> >
> >
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> >
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> individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner
> has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
>
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