[MBZ] Number 4 4 sale

[Hendrik and Fay via Mercedes]

http://starmotorsny.com/1964-300se/

Hendrik
whose Benz is not quite that black
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Re: [MBZ] Oz Merc truck

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Looks like a veggie oil conversion for Wachsmuth's Mothra.

Dan


On Jul 30, 2014, at 8:51 PM, Hendrik and Fay via Mercedes 
 wrote:

> http://th02.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/f/2013/338/b/5/mad_max_4_fury_road_mercedes_benz_tanker_1_by_maltian-d6wqe0j.jpg
> 
> Hendrik
> who has been to Silverton
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[MBZ] Oz Merc truck

[Hendrik and Fay via Mercedes]

http://th02.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/f/2013/338/b/5/mad_max_4_fury_road_mercedes_benz_tanker_1_by_maltian-d6wqe0j.jpg

Hendrik
who has been to Silverton
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[MBZ] Rock Auto Closeouts for W124

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Here is an example of the emails I get from Rock Auto for close out parts:

http://www.rockauto.com/RSS/vehiclefeeds.php?carcode=1193925&m=wc&l=en&html=true

Yeah, some of it is crap, but there are occasional diamonds in there, like the 
TRW ball joints, for example.

Dan
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Re: [MBZ] This One's For Wilt

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

Grant wrote:
> ...kinetic energy weapon...

The new class of Navy carrier has kinetic energy weaponry.  Someone
here put the link up a month back.  The carrier is solar powered and
other fascinating stuff.  Someone that knows military junque - please
correct me.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] Horse power vs. torque - was: OT: How is this game played exactly?

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

Did you look at the back seat area in the Supercrew?
It is huge both with the seat down and with it folded up.

Randy

On 30/07/2014 3:14 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:

I chose the F150 over the Chevy based first on the space behind the seat
(basic, small cab) - lots in the Ford, NONE in the Chevy, and a bit more
load/towing capacity. Really, it was the space behind the seat that made
the difference to us.


On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 2:25 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


Which is what pleases me about the 6spd in the F150 (and some Chevys too)
which gives a nice low first and a good high 6th.







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Re: [MBZ] This One's For Wilt

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Wed, 30 Jul 2014 14:32:47 -0400 Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
 wrote:

> Also known as the "clean" or "neutron  bomb" IIRC.

No, that's something entirely different.


Craig


> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 1:43 PM, G Mann via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> 
> > Your thought about fighting with rocks reminds me of the kinetic
> > energy weapon that was supposedly developed during the cold war by
> > Russia .. I think it was called "Stalins Hammer" [could be wrong on
> > that]  ... I've heard that USA also played with them.. but very
> > little has been disclosed [always a sign that something really did
> > happen with a government program].
> >
> > The principle design feature is dropping a titanium [or depleted
> > uranium or some magic dense material] pole from space with guidance
> > fins. The device accelerates to an entry contact speed of something
> > on the order of 60,000 MPH and imparts impact energy on the 5 mega
> > ton range, with no fallout, but maximum penetration.
> >
> > The other major design element of this device is there is zero launch
> > signature, such as you have with an ICBM. Time to Deliver impact
> > anywhere in the world from "launch" is published as 4 minutes.
> >
> > Improved death through improved technology... as always..
> >
> >
> > http://www.armaghplanet.com/blog/rods-from-god-a-terrifying-space-weapon.html

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[MBZ] Cyberdyne S-class

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

http://jalopnik.com/this-simple-hack-lets-your-mercedes-s-class-become-semi-1612959314/all

--R

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Re: [MBZ] Horse power vs. torque - was: OT: How is this game played exactly?

[OK Don via Mercedes]

I chose the F150 over the Chevy based first on the space behind the seat
(basic, small cab) - lots in the Ford, NONE in the Chevy, and a bit more
load/towing capacity. Really, it was the space behind the seat that made
the difference to us.


On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 2:25 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Which is what pleases me about the 6spd in the F150 (and some Chevys too)
> which gives a nice low first and a good high 6th.
>



-- 
OK Don

NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OK Don

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I *think* the one I'd use is the Straight Talk one though, its similar money 
and they don't spam the crap out of your email. I was also very unhappy with 
how un-straightforward Freedom Pop's website is. Looks like they're hiding 
stuff.


-Curt



 From: Craig via Mercedes 
To: OK Don ; Mercedes Discussion List  
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OK Don
 

On Mon, 28 Jul 2014 11:18:19 -0500 OK Don via Mercedes
 wrote:

> We are using ATLink WIFI - they have towers in Edmond and Guthrie. It's
> line-of-site WIFI to an antenna on the hangar roof. Are you close to
> Nowata, or on the other side of the airport? Something like ATLink
> might be a possibility - it's less expensive than satellite.

I ran across a new (to me, at least) Internet connection scheme recently.

The first thing I saw was a sale, now ended, on NeweggFlash at

http://www.neweggflash.com/Product/33-409-002?utm_source=NEEmail051514&utm_medium=Index&utm_campaign=Photon&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL051514&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL051514-_-EMC-051514-Index-_-MECH-_-Photon-LB1E&markgl=1

The website for the people that run it is at http://www.freedompop.com/

>From the bottom of that page (yes, the bottom, don't ask me why),

    FreedomPop is the nation's first wireless Internet provider
    committed to delivering 100% FREE 4G mobile broadband Internet
    access. FreedomPop's partnered with leading wholesale 4G Wimax
    and 4G LTE mobile broadband networks to deliver the fastest high
    speed Internet available and offer the flexibility of wireless
    Internet. Replace your at home DSL and cable broadband Internet
    service today and enjoy the speed, mobility and low cost of
    FreedomPop's 4G wireless broadband Internet service.


What do you guys think? Is it just a substitute for getting Internet
access from your 4G phone?


Craig




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Re: [MBZ] OK Don

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Mon, 28 Jul 2014 11:18:19 -0500 OK Don via Mercedes
 wrote:

> We are using ATLink WIFI - they have towers in Edmond and Guthrie. It's
> line-of-site WIFI to an antenna on the hangar roof. Are you close to
> Nowata, or on the other side of the airport? Something like ATLink
> might be a possibility - it's less expensive than satellite.

I ran across a new (to me, at least) Internet connection scheme recently.

The first thing I saw was a sale, now ended, on NeweggFlash at

http://www.neweggflash.com/Product/33-409-002?utm_source=NEEmail051514&utm_medium=Index&utm_campaign=Photon&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL051514&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL051514-_-EMC-051514-Index-_-MECH-_-Photon-LB1E&markgl=1

The website for the people that run it is at http://www.freedompop.com/

>From the bottom of that page (yes, the bottom, don't ask me why),

FreedomPop is the nation's first wireless Internet provider
committed to delivering 100% FREE 4G mobile broadband Internet
access. FreedomPop's partnered with leading wholesale 4G Wimax
and 4G LTE mobile broadband networks to deliver the fastest high
speed Internet available and offer the flexibility of wireless
Internet. Replace your at home DSL and cable broadband Internet
service today and enjoy the speed, mobility and low cost of
FreedomPop's 4G wireless broadband Internet service.


What do you guys think? Is it just a substitute for getting Internet
access from your 4G phone?


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Horse power vs. torque vs nuts

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

No diesels in half ton Fords. Dodge is the only one that does that and it only 
comes in the fully tarted $50,000 monster...

I'm back to looking at used trucks, I can't believe I'd never looked at 
Autotrader before. Turns out a Toyota dealership I pass every day has a couple 
trucks I'm interested in for around half what I would have paid for a new one.

-Curt



 From: Hendrik and Fay via Mercedes 
To: Fmiser ; Mercedes Discussion List  
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 3:37 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Horse power vs. torque vs nuts
 

It's horses for courses, if you're likely to tow a lot and load the 
truck up then yeah a bigger more torquey engine would be the go but to 
add some perspective, modern Merc V6 engines produce more horsepower 
than the Euro version M100 but not as much torque.
However if you do the occasional tow and load er up now and then, a 
smaller more efficient engine would be alright. Guess it also comes down 
to which is the better engine, no point cheaping out with the V6 if the 
V8 is a more reliable engine.
How much extra do they want for a manly Diesel version, you could put 
vertical stacks on it and some air horns and hang out at truck stops. 
Oooh don't forget the balls out the back 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck_nuts

Hendrik
who has a wimpy 4 banger ute, which needs a good tune up




On 30/07/14 14:10, Fmiser via Mercedes wrote:
 OK Don wrote:

 IIRC, the V8 has more torque, which is what a truck needs.
>>> Fmiser wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, no.  Not really.  But sort of.
>> Jim wrote:
>>
>> It's a good first approximation.  Torque maps to
>> acceleration, whereas horsepower maps to top speed.
>> A 200HP 400#' engine will likely be _far_ more drivable
>> than a 300HP 200#' engine, assuming equivalence in other
>> broad parameters.  (RPM range, reasonable number of
>> gears, etc.)
> The physics principles say "no" - horsepower is horsepower.  But -
> the perception of the person controlling the engine speed says
> "Physics - go jump in a lake!".
>
> I suspect your definition of "drivable" is probably similar to mine
> - if high RPM (with high noise and high fuel use) is necessary to
> "access" the torque then it is less pleasant to drive.  Thus if
> your 200 HP engine required high RPM to get it's 400 lbs-ft of
> torque but the 300 HP engine had it's 200 lbs-ft available from a
> low RPM I think we would consider the 300 HP more drivable.  (I
> realize that with most modern internal combustion engines the
> scenario I just mentioned is unlikely).
>
> So with a suitable transmission, and a willingness to put the
> engine in the right RPM range, the 300 HP engine will out
> accelerate the 200 HP.  Probably.  Though torque curves,
> transmission ratios, RPM limits, etc. really muddle things.
>
> --  Philip

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Re: [MBZ] Horse power vs. torque - was: OT: How is this game played exactly?

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Which is what pleases me about the 6spd in the F150 (and some Chevys too) which 
gives a nice low first and a good high 6th.

-Curt



 From: Craig via Mercedes 
To: OK Don ; Mercedes Discussion List  
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 11:12 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Horse power vs. torque - was: OT: How is this game played 
exactly?
 

On Tue, 29 Jul 2014 21:42:06 -0500 OK Don via Mercedes
 wrote:

> OK Phillip - thanks for the clear explanation!
> 
> Now, if I understand correctly, if my pickup has the required torque to
> pull the 4000 lb. trailer up Grapevine, and your lawn tractor doesn't,
> I'll be moving and you won't. So torque does matter, but more HP with
> the required torque means the work gets performed faster. Insufficient
> torque means no work is done.

No, lower torque means the work is done more slowly.

With the right gearing, tires, and weight, a lawn tractor motor can move
an 80,000 pound semi trailer up the Grapevine, just like a 1500 HP semi
tractor. Except slower.


> If Curt wants to haul a load of gravel to camp, he'll need a minimum
> amount of torque to accomplish the job, regardless of how fast it gets
> done.
> 
> Did I get it right?

Ummm ... no, not quite. You forgot about the requisite gearing.


Craig




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Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Wed, 30 Jul 2014 13:19:30 -0400 Dan Penoff via Mercedes
 wrote:

> You can see Russia from a few select locations, islands, of course,
> that belong to the US.

Maybe Big Diomede Island in the Bering Strait. Nikolskoye Kamchatka Krai
and the small island to its southeast are too far from Attu Island to be
seen.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] This One's For Wilt

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Also known as the "clean" or "neutron  bomb" IIRC.


On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 1:43 PM, G Mann via Mercedes 
wrote:

> Your thought about fighting with rocks reminds me of the kinetic energy
> weapon that was supposedly developed during the cold war by Russia .. I
> think it was called "Stalins Hammer" [could be wrong on that]  ... I've
> heard that USA also played with them.. but very little has been disclosed
> [always a sign that something really did happen with a government program].
>
> The principle design feature is dropping a titanium [or depleted uranium or
> some magic dense material] pole from space with guidance fins. The device
> accelerates to an entry contact speed of something on the order of 60,000
> MPH and imparts impact energy on the 5 mega ton range, with no fallout, but
> maximum penetration.
>
> The other major design element of this device is there is zero launch
> signature, such as you have with an ICBM. Time to Deliver impact anywhere
> in the world from "launch" is published as 4 minutes.
>
> Improved death through improved technology... as always..
>
>
> http://www.armaghplanet.com/blog/rods-from-god-a-terrifying-space-weapon.html
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 7:01 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > OK Don via Mercedes wrote:
> >
> >> There is a reason why bombs are shaped the way they are with fins on the
> >> back end - they tend to land where you aimed them better than random
> >> shaped
> >> objects. It doesn't help much if your non-toxic bombs don't hit the
> >> target.  Otherwise, I like your idea 
> >>
> >
> > I'm reminded of when the lunar colony revolted in the novel The Moon is a
> > Harsh Mistress. They didn't have interplanetary weapons, but they had big
> > engineless freight ships, they had a magnetic catapult that could hurl
> them
> > beyond the moon's gravity, and they had lots of rock to fill them with.
> > They could simply aim them to land on earth instead of going into
> harmless
> > orbits.
> >
> > They announced the time and the locations of the first wave of
> rock-bombs.
> > Thousands of idiots showed up to watch the impacts. The TV news idiots
> > thought we'd been hit with nuclear weapons. Apparently they'd never heard
> > what happens when meteors hit the earth.
> >
> > Mitch.
> >
> > ___
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> >
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> >
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> > has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
> >
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Re: [MBZ] This One's For Wilt

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Your thought about fighting with rocks reminds me of the kinetic energy
weapon that was supposedly developed during the cold war by Russia .. I
think it was called "Stalins Hammer" [could be wrong on that]  ... I've
heard that USA also played with them.. but very little has been disclosed
[always a sign that something really did happen with a government program].

The principle design feature is dropping a titanium [or depleted uranium or
some magic dense material] pole from space with guidance fins. The device
accelerates to an entry contact speed of something on the order of 60,000
MPH and imparts impact energy on the 5 mega ton range, with no fallout, but
maximum penetration.

The other major design element of this device is there is zero launch
signature, such as you have with an ICBM. Time to Deliver impact anywhere
in the world from "launch" is published as 4 minutes.

Improved death through improved technology... as always..

http://www.armaghplanet.com/blog/rods-from-god-a-terrifying-space-weapon.html


On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 7:01 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> OK Don via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> There is a reason why bombs are shaped the way they are with fins on the
>> back end - they tend to land where you aimed them better than random
>> shaped
>> objects. It doesn't help much if your non-toxic bombs don't hit the
>> target.  Otherwise, I like your idea 
>>
>
> I'm reminded of when the lunar colony revolted in the novel The Moon is a
> Harsh Mistress. They didn't have interplanetary weapons, but they had big
> engineless freight ships, they had a magnetic catapult that could hurl them
> beyond the moon's gravity, and they had lots of rock to fill them with.
> They could simply aim them to land on earth instead of going into harmless
> orbits.
>
> They announced the time and the locations of the first wave of rock-bombs.
> Thousands of idiots showed up to watch the impacts. The TV news idiots
> thought we'd been hit with nuclear weapons. Apparently they'd never heard
> what happens when meteors hit the earth.
>
> Mitch.
>
> ___
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>
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>
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>
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> individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner
> has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

You can see Russia from a few select locations, islands, of course, that belong 
to the US.

Dan

> On Jul 30, 2014, at 1:11 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> It was Tina Fey, a comedian on Saturday Night Live, when portraying Palin 
> (and they look remarkable similar) said, "I can see Russia"  
> Unfortunately those who do not like Palin erroneously attribute this quote to 
> her to make her appear stupid.  (There might be other evidence for that, but 
> not this particular meme)
> 
> The Bridge to Nowhere was the work of the Senator Stevens from AL who got 
> indicted on corruption and such, got defeated, then it was dismissed for 
> prosecutorial misconduct, then he died in a plane crash.  Palin was 
> apparently for it before she was against it, but it did not get built.
> 
> Keep your facts organized, your opinions disorganized.  Merka!
> 
> --R
> 
> 
>> On 7/30/14 12:41 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:
>> Was Palin's "bridge to nowhere"  going to Russia? Didn't it get built?
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 11:03 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> LOL!  Even if you can see Russia I doubt you can drive there.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

It was Tina Fey, a comedian on Saturday Night Live, when portraying 
Palin (and they look remarkable similar) said, "I can see Russia"  
Unfortunately those who do not like Palin erroneously attribute this 
quote to her to make her appear stupid.  (There might be other evidence 
for that, but not this particular meme)


The Bridge to Nowhere was the work of the Senator Stevens from AL who 
got indicted on corruption and such, got defeated, then it was dismissed 
for prosecutorial misconduct, then he died in a plane crash.  Palin was 
apparently for it before she was against it, but it did not get built.


Keep your facts organized, your opinions disorganized.  Merka!

--R


On 7/30/14 12:41 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:

Was Palin's "bridge to nowhere"  going to Russia? Didn't it get built?


On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 11:03 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


LOL!  Even if you can see Russia I doubt you can drive there.











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Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

That belonged to the state senator, Ted something.

Dan

> On Jul 30, 2014, at 12:41 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Was Palin's "bridge to nowhere"  going to Russia? Didn't it get built?
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 11:03 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> LOL!  Even if you can see Russia I doubt you can drive there.
> 
> 
> -- 
> OK Don
> 
> NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!
> 
> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> for themselves."
> 
> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Was Palin's "bridge to nowhere"  going to Russia? Didn't it get built?


On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 11:03 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> LOL!  Even if you can see Russia I doubt you can drive there.
>
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
OK Don

NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

In the winter you can...

Dan "there's a beautiful woman behind every tree on Adak"


Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 30, 2014, at 12:03 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> LOL!  Even if you can see Russia I doubt you can drive there.
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 10:54 AM, WILTON via Mercedes > wrote:
> 
>> Somewhat like physics, geography doesn't, lie, though some try to stretch
>> and bend/distort it, depending on the politics of the day.;<)
>> 
>> BTW, will she be able to see Russia?  ;<)
>> 
>> Wilton
>> 
>> - Original Message - From: "Randy Bennell via Mercedes" <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> To: "Andrew Strasfogel" ; "Mercedes Discussion
>> List" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 10:38 AM
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?
>> 
>> 
>>> On 29/07/2014 8:55 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
>>> 
 What countries is she passing through, to get where exactly? She who must
 be admired?
>>> Uh, did you really ask that question?
>>> 
>>> So, let me see, if you were on the west coast of the USA and wanted to
>>> drive to Alaska, what countries do you think you would go through?
>>> Let me go on to suggest Canada.
>>> The 2 boarder crossings will be to leave the USA and go into Canada, and
>>> then to leave Canada and re-enter the USA.
>>> 
>>> Unless she plans a significant detour and I doubt that is likely if she
>>> needs to do this in 5 days.
>>> 
>>> Randy
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> 
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>>> 
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>>> 
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>>> individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner
>>> has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

LOL!  Even if you can see Russia I doubt you can drive there.



On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 10:54 AM, WILTON via Mercedes  wrote:

> Somewhat like physics, geography doesn't, lie, though some try to stretch
> and bend/distort it, depending on the politics of the day.;<)
>
> BTW, will she be able to see Russia?  ;<)
>
> Wilton
>
> - Original Message - From: "Randy Bennell via Mercedes" <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> To: "Andrew Strasfogel" ; "Mercedes Discussion
> List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 10:38 AM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?
>
>
>  On 29/07/2014 8:55 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
>>
>>> What countries is she passing through, to get where exactly? She who must
>>> be admired?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Uh, did you really ask that question?
>>
>> So, let me see, if you were on the west coast of the USA and wanted to
>> drive to Alaska, what countries do you think you would go through?
>> Let me go on to suggest Canada.
>> The 2 boarder crossings will be to leave the USA and go into Canada, and
>> then to leave Canada and re-enter the USA.
>>
>> Unless she plans a significant detour and I doubt that is likely if she
>> needs to do this in 5 days.
>>
>> Randy
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
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>>
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>> has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
>>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT I am so angry

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

What car are you talking about?


On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 10:10 PM, clay via Mercedes 
wrote:

> I got screwed over in March.  Shop hosted a club event and I bit on their
> offer of reduced rates to have work done.  The tech was not qualified to
> work on a D-jet system and buggered it up very well.  It now stumbles and
> backfires as well as runs overly rich.  It was having some minor backfiring
> before, but now it runs poorly.  They write up this big list of all manner
> of work they can still do, and it comes to close to $10k.  I talked to a
> few other members and they too got screwed over.
>
> My standard indy has been honest about how hard it is to work on getting
> the thing right.  He is averse to throwing parts at it, which was what the
> other shop did.  I took the SL to him to get the steering lock changed out
> with the fleabay one.  Stealership did not get the new tumbler in over
> three months after I ordered it.   I took the old one to a locksmith, who
> cut new code keys and cleaned the lock.  I went back to my indy to get the
> lock changed out.  It took him less than a half hour.  Minimal charge is
> for half hour.  I whip out my wallet, and he tells me to go home, it was on
> him.  The ten minute fixes and fast hops on the lift normally get the same
> treatment
>
> clay
>
>
>
> On Jul 29, 2014, at 12:14 PM, Gary Hurst via Mercedes wrote:
>
> > shops gouge you.  depending on how busy they are and who he talks to,
> that
> > same job is 400 instead of 1200.  i guess the microecoomist calls this
> > "price discrimation".  you get what you can and that is different from
> > everyone
> >
> > there is someone who will do this job for less than half and do it well
> > enough.  he's just gotta go talk to people to find it
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 3:10 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >> The boy in DC has been driving the 98 Cad.  Calls me the other day and
> >> says the brake light has come on, brakes are a bit mushy, so I tell him
> to
> >> take it to a shop.  He does that today.  They give him a quote of $703.
>  I
> >> call and talk to the guy.  $80 for rear pads (I put new ones on the
> front
> >> not that long ago, they are like $20 a set). $88x2 for rear rotors which
> >> may be sorta reasonable, fluid and flush for $139, and $227 for labor.
> >> Their labor rate was for 1.7hr.  $48 for "shop fees" which includes rags
> >> and brake cleaner, a standard charge.  Total BS.  I guess that sorta
> adds
> >> up with taxes and such.  Reluctantly after going over the fluid/flush
> >> number (how hard is that?) I tell them to go ahead since he needs the
> car
> >> and has no time to deal with this stuff and the car has not required a
> lot
> >> of work over the years, so whatever.
> >>
> >> So then they call him and say there is a problem with the a brake line
> >> leaking.  I am thinking maybe a flex line.  I call them back, the guy
> says
> >> a front hard line is cracked or something and is leaking, which is why
> the
> >> pedal was soft.  I ask what that will cost, he tells me the total is now
> >> $1228.  Over $500 to replace a hard line?  WTF???  So I tell the guy
> that
> >> seems quite excessive, a line is maybe $30 and how long to replace it?
> >> $500 labor to replace a line?  Then he tells me, well, you know, we have
> >> to do flairs, and those are hard to get right, then there is
> >> blahblahblah  I tell him to move the car out, my son will come get
> it
> >> and take it somewhere else.  Then he starts in, "Well if you don't want
> >> quality work done that's your choice" and I hang up.
> >>
> >> I am just so angry at these guys trying to screw over customers who are
> >> sorta over a barrel.  The brake line thing is probably BS too but what
> are
> >> you gonna do?  My wife had a patient who worked for a dealer as a mech,
> and
> >> then for an indy, he would tell her these stories about how they would
> >> "find" problems and jack the prices up, then do nothing to the car but
> >> charge for it.  He said it was just standard behavior on all these guys
> he
> >> had ever run across.  He finally quit and does work for people on the
> side,
> >> cash, and said he was making OK money and happy he was doing the right
> >> thing.
> >>
> >> So anyway I told him to go find a Sears or a Midas or something to do
> the
> >> brake job, how hard can that be and it won't be anywhere near $1200.  I
> >> know, Midas and Sears, but  Hell I could ship my tools and fly up
> there
> >> and still be like $800 ahead.
> >>
> >> --R
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
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> >>
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> >>
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> >>
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> >> individuals are responsible for the content of the

Re: [MBZ] This One's For Wilt

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

http://ottawa-rasc.ca/wiki/index.php?title=Odale-Articles-WestHawk



On 30/07/2014 9:01 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote:

OK Don via Mercedes wrote:

There is a reason why bombs are shaped the way they are with fins on the
back end - they tend to land where you aimed them better than random 
shaped

objects. It doesn't help much if your non-toxic bombs don't hit the
target.  Otherwise, I like your idea 


I'm reminded of when the lunar colony revolted in the novel The Moon 
is a Harsh Mistress. They didn't have interplanetary weapons, but they 
had big engineless freight ships, they had a magnetic catapult that 
could hurl them beyond the moon's gravity, and they had lots of rock 
to fill them with. They could simply aim them to land on earth instead 
of going into harmless orbits.


They announced the time and the locations of the first wave of 
rock-bombs.
Thousands of idiots showed up to watch the impacts. The TV news idiots 
thought we'd been hit with nuclear weapons. Apparently they'd never 
heard what happens when meteors hit the earth.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Horse power vs. torque

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Wed, 30 Jul 2014 05:12:43 -0700 Jim Cathey via Mercedes
 wrote:

> > So with a suitable transmission, and a willingness to put the
> > engine in the right RPM range, the 300 HP engine will out
> > accelerate the 200 HP.  Probably.  Though torque curves,
> > transmission ratios, RPM limits, etc. really muddle things.
> 
> Yes.  But you are going to have to use a racer mindset
> to do it.  For drivability, IMHO, you want a system whose
> torque curve _rises_ as RPM falls, rather than drops off
> precipitously.  Those tend to hold their speed when the
> load increases, like on small gradients.  Sucks to have
> to drop a gear on a 0.1% grade.  Peaky engines can win
> races, if they've got enough gears, but it's a lot of
> work to drive that sort of thing.

Good explanation, Jim.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?

[WILTON via Mercedes]

Somewhat like physics, geography doesn't, lie, though some try to stretch 
and bend/distort it, depending on the politics of the day.;<)


BTW, will she be able to see Russia?  ;<)

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Randy Bennell via Mercedes" 
To: "Andrew Strasfogel" ; "Mercedes Discussion List" 


Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?



On 29/07/2014 8:55 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

What countries is she passing through, to get where exactly? She who must
be admired?





Uh, did you really ask that question?

So, let me see, if you were on the west coast of the USA and wanted to 
drive to Alaska, what countries do you think you would go through?

Let me go on to suggest Canada.
The 2 boarder crossings will be to leave the USA and go into Canada, and 
then to leave Canada and re-enter the USA.


Unless she plans a significant detour and I doubt that is likely if she 
needs to do this in 5 days.


Randy

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Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 29/07/2014 8:55 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

What countries is she passing through, to get where exactly? She who must
be admired?





Uh, did you really ask that question?

So, let me see, if you were on the west coast of the USA and wanted to 
drive to Alaska, what countries do you think you would go through?

Let me go on to suggest Canada.
The 2 boarder crossings will be to leave the USA and go into Canada, and 
then to leave Canada and re-enter the USA.


Unless she plans a significant detour and I doubt that is likely if she 
needs to do this in 5 days.


Randy

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Re: [MBZ] This One's For Wilt

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 29/07/2014 8:23 PM, clay via Mercedes wrote:

I am thinking we should be more ecologically friendly in our munitions.  
Various sized gravel and stones at terminal velocity would be swift and have no 
lasting toxic effects.  A day after the event, it is all good, twenty years on, 
no birth defects or cancer.  On top of that, no bad PR from pix of naked girls 
running down the road after being napalmed.

Even better, if the plane gets hit, nothing explodes prematurely, and the cost 
of munitions is dirt cheap

clay




One problem with that is that the enemy can gather them up and then 
throw them back at you.


Randy

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Re: [MBZ] Horse power vs. torque - was: OT: How is this game played exactly?

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

Let me suggest that your statement is more theoretical than practical.

On the street, you want torque.

If you are a Nascar racer on the track, you want horsepower.

Randy

On 29/07/2014 7:34 PM, Fmiser via Mercedes wrote:

OK wrote:

IIRC, the V8 has more torque, which is what a truck needs.

Well, no.  Not really.  But sort of.

Nothing against you Don, but this is a very common
miss-perception.  So I'm not picking on you - just using your
comment as motivation to respond. *smiles*

Torque is rotational force.  There can be torque with no movement.
Unless there is movement, no work is being done.

If there is torque, and movement occurs - then work is being done.
With a stopwatch (or calendar?) you can measure how fast the work
is being done.  This is horsepower [or watts].

If you have an engine with a fixed horsepower attached to a
transmission (presuming an infinite ratio and lossless - which
doesn't exist) the torque can be any value at all.  For high
torque, it will be moving slow - but for low torque it will be
moving fast.

If we don't change the diameter of the tire, the torque on the
axle necessary to pull a 4000 lb [1800 kg] trailer up
Grapevine out of Los Angeles is fixed.  So if your your 400 hp
pickup and my 7 hp garden tractor have the same size tire, the
torque needed is the same.  The difference is speed.  Your
pickup will get to the top a lot faster than my tractor
because the axle can turn faster because your engine has more
horsepower.

So far it's very clear - but then reality rears it's ugly
head.  Transmissions have fixed ratios and losses.  Engine
ratings are for _maximum_ horsepower - but the actual
horsepower and torque vary depending on speed.  This makes it
almost impossible to actually do an apples-to-apples
comparison.

Nevertheless, looking at the torque value is pretty
meaningless.  If you look at the torque values for various
engine RPM, you can get a clue as to how usable the
power is.  If there is little torque at low RPM, then high RPM
will be needed to get useable power.  This makes it feel like
the driver has to work the engine harder to get the job done.

So - to repeat.  Just a torque value is nearly meaningless.
Torque at a particular RPM is useful - but that is by
definition horsepower!

--  Philip

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Re: [MBZ] New W211

[Gary Hurst via Mercedes]

why not daewoo?


On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 8:15 AM, Tom Savage via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Well, I've placed a deposit on an '07 E320 Bluetec with a scant 36k miles.
> Car is in Oklahoma City and I have the logistics worked out to go fetch it,
> with the exception of talking Kaleb into buying my S420. Hint, hint. Free
> delivery...
>
> Tom
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Re: [MBZ] This One's For Wilt

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

I say we take off and nuke the whole site from orbit.  It's the only way 
to be sure.


BTW those are called "mass drivers" and are great fun.  I think Heinlein 
gave a brief explication of why the moon was a great place to base space 
exploration from, being mostly outside Earth's gravity well, having 
plenty of power and materials and advantageous launch conditions.   One 
thing he sorta got wrong in the story was the limited supply of iron to 
work as the vessel for the rocks, you can just use a carriage sort of 
deal to bring the payload up to escape velocity, then capture and reuse 
the carriage (and reclaim some energy in the process).  Or go capture a 
big nickel-iron asteroid and have plenty of magnetic stuff.


--R


On 7/30/14 10:01 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote:

OK Don via Mercedes wrote:

There is a reason why bombs are shaped the way they are with fins on the
back end - they tend to land where you aimed them better than random 
shaped

objects. It doesn't help much if your non-toxic bombs don't hit the
target.  Otherwise, I like your idea 


I'm reminded of when the lunar colony revolted in the novel The Moon 
is a Harsh Mistress. They didn't have interplanetary weapons, but they 
had big engineless freight ships, they had a magnetic catapult that 
could hurl them beyond the moon's gravity, and they had lots of rock 
to fill them with. They could simply aim them to land on earth instead 
of going into harmless orbits.


They announced the time and the locations of the first wave of 
rock-bombs.
Thousands of idiots showed up to watch the impacts. The TV news idiots 
thought we'd been hit with nuclear weapons. Apparently they'd never 
heard what happens when meteors hit the earth.


Mitch.



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Re: [MBZ] This One's For Wilt

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

OK Don via Mercedes wrote:

There is a reason why bombs are shaped the way they are with fins on the
back end - they tend to land where you aimed them better than random shaped
objects. It doesn't help much if your non-toxic bombs don't hit the
target.  Otherwise, I like your idea 


I'm reminded of when the lunar colony revolted in the novel The Moon is a Harsh 
Mistress. They didn't have interplanetary weapons, but they had big engineless 
freight ships, they had a magnetic catapult that could hurl them beyond the 
moon's gravity, and they had lots of rock to fill them with. They could simply 
aim them to land on earth instead of going into harmless orbits.


They announced the time and the locations of the first wave of rock-bombs.
Thousands of idiots showed up to watch the impacts. The TV news idiots thought 
we'd been hit with nuclear weapons. Apparently they'd never heard what happens 
when meteors hit the earth.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] New W211

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Tell us about your S420. Please.

Dan

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 30, 2014, at 8:15 AM, Tom Savage via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Well, I've placed a deposit on an '07 E320 Bluetec with a scant 36k miles.
> Car is in Oklahoma City and I have the logistics worked out to go fetch it,
> with the exception of talking Kaleb into buying my S420. Hint, hint. Free
> delivery...
> 
> Tom
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Re: [MBZ] Horse power vs. torque - was: OT: How is this game played exactly?

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

Now, if I understand correctly, if my pickup has the required torque to
pull the 4000 lb. trailer up Grapevine, and your lawn tractor doesn't, 
I'll

be moving and you won't.


With gearing both will do the job.  I've been using the terms
not in a physics sense, but more in a drivability sense.  I assume
the normal number of gears on vehicles designed for optimal
driving up to and including freeway speeds.  That narrows things
down a lot.

My truck is on the torquey side.  Carrying its 3000# camper,
I can go up mild grades, and even accelerate, in 5th gear.
For steeper grades I have to drop to 4th, but having done
so I can still maintain any freeway speed I like.  I have
run into exactly one hill where I have to drop to 3rd, with
a top speed of 45 (?) MPH, and that's the grade climbing out
of Jackson Hole, Wyo.  If I had another gear, or maybe 50
more HP or so, I could probably maintain speed going up
that too.  It just doesn't quite have enough torque to
maintain speed going up in 4th, so I end up in 3 at redline
and only partial throttle, while everybody behind me
curses my name all the way up.  It's narrow, steep, and
windy, and only two lanes.

The newer trucks would eat my lunch, I think my truck
was rated maybe 200HP/300#', I think they're currently
pushing 300HP/600#', and have six gears not five.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] New W211

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Ps where are you buying it from?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 30, 2014, at 7:15 AM, Tom Savage via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Well, I've placed a deposit on an '07 E320 Bluetec with a scant 36k miles.
> Car is in Oklahoma City and I have the logistics worked out to go fetch it,
> with the exception of talking Kaleb into buying my S420. Hint, hint. Free
> delivery...
> 
> Tom
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Re: [MBZ] New W211

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Well I am sure something can be arranged. I am right on the way to OKC.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 30, 2014, at 7:15 AM, Tom Savage via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Well, I've placed a deposit on an '07 E320 Bluetec with a scant 36k miles.
> Car is in Oklahoma City and I have the logistics worked out to go fetch it,
> with the exception of talking Kaleb into buying my S420. Hint, hint. Free
> delivery...
> 
> Tom
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[MBZ] New W211

[Tom Savage via Mercedes]

Well, I've placed a deposit on an '07 E320 Bluetec with a scant 36k miles.
Car is in Oklahoma City and I have the logistics worked out to go fetch it,
with the exception of talking Kaleb into buying my S420. Hint, hint. Free
delivery...

Tom
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Re: [MBZ] Horse power vs. torque

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

I suspect your definition of "drivable" is probably similar to mine


Probably.  I distinguish between drivable and race-able.
If you have to downshift in order to accelerate, for
_normal_ driving, that's bad.


So with a suitable transmission, and a willingness to put the
engine in the right RPM range, the 300 HP engine will out
accelerate the 200 HP.  Probably.  Though torque curves,
transmission ratios, RPM limits, etc. really muddle things.


Yes.  But you are going to have to use a racer mindset
to do it.  For drivability, IMHO, you want a system whose
torque curve _rises_ as RPM falls, rather than drops off
precipitously.  Those tend to hold their speed when the
load increases, like on small gradients.  Sucks to have
to drop a gear on a 0.1% grade.  Peaky engines can win
races, if they've got enough gears, but it's a lot of
work to drive that sort of thing.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] Horse power vs. torque vs nuts

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

How much extra do they want for a manly Diesel version, you could put 
vertical stacks on it and some air horns and hang out at truck stops. 
Oooh don't forget the balls out the back 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck_nuts


Yes on the diesel.  Last I looked it was about a $3k option
up front, but around here you get it all back on resale.
Hell no on those stupid stacks, merely an excellent way to
convert a truck capable of hauling things into one that is
not.  Air horns very much yes, I've got a (broken) set on
mine.  Were great fun while they lasted.  Ambivalent about
the TruckNutz.  I don't want 'em, no way, but I always wanted
to see a studly cowgirl in a big truck have the opposite
number on her ride.

But I have an odd sense of humor, sometimes.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] Horse power vs. torque vs nuts

[Hendrik and Fay via Mercedes]

It's horses for courses, if you're likely to tow a lot and load the 
truck up then yeah a bigger more torquey engine would be the go but to 
add some perspective, modern Merc V6 engines produce more horsepower 
than the Euro version M100 but not as much torque.
However if you do the occasional tow and load er up now and then, a 
smaller more efficient engine would be alright. Guess it also comes down 
to which is the better engine, no point cheaping out with the V6 if the 
V8 is a more reliable engine.
How much extra do they want for a manly Diesel version, you could put 
vertical stacks on it and some air horns and hang out at truck stops. 
Oooh don't forget the balls out the back 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck_nuts


Hendrik
who has a wimpy 4 banger ute, which needs a good tune up

On 30/07/14 14:10, Fmiser via Mercedes wrote:

OK Don wrote:

IIRC, the V8 has more torque, which is what a truck needs.

Fmiser wrote:

Well, no.  Not really.  But sort of.

Jim wrote:

It's a good first approximation.  Torque maps to
acceleration, whereas horsepower maps to top speed.
A 200HP 400#' engine will likely be _far_ more drivable
than a 300HP 200#' engine, assuming equivalence in other
broad parameters.  (RPM range, reasonable number of
gears, etc.)

The physics principles say "no" - horsepower is horsepower.  But -
the perception of the person controlling the engine speed says
"Physics - go jump in a lake!".

I suspect your definition of "drivable" is probably similar to mine
- if high RPM (with high noise and high fuel use) is necessary to
"access" the torque then it is less pleasant to drive.  Thus if
your 200 HP engine required high RPM to get it's 400 lbs-ft of
torque but the 300 HP engine had it's 200 lbs-ft available from a
low RPM I think we would consider the 300 HP more drivable.  (I
realize that with most modern internal combustion engines the
scenario I just mentioned is unlikely).

So with a suitable transmission, and a willingness to put the
engine in the right RPM range, the 300 HP engine will out
accelerate the 200 HP.  Probably.  Though torque curves,
transmission ratios, RPM limits, etc. really muddle things.

--  Philip


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