date:20200708

I don’t know about changes in codes, but most public and private facilities 
have water a management programs to prevent it along with other water-borne 
diseases. I know that some of the facilities I’ve worked in had disinfectant 
protocols for things like cooling towers and fountains to prevent it.

-D

> On Jul 8, 2020, at 4:07 PM, Clay via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> This morning’s news claims one million new plague infections took place in 
> June.  That means in 100 months we will have achieved Herd Immunity.  Hmmm.  
> Looks like nine years to go.  Which of us is going to tolerate being masked 
> up for almost a decade?  
> 
> Forty years ago we had an outbreak of Legionnaires’ disease.  Seems somebody 
> would have made changes to HVAC codes for enclosed spaces to control the 
> spread of contagion.  But that has not taken place, as each season at least 
> one cruise ship has outbreak of respiratory diseases.  Do we tear down high 
> density housing and commercial space?  Allow only open air markets?  Ban 
> travel unless you are in air tight pods?
> 
> It seems there will be a new way of life that is incompatible with current 
> economical and cultural traditions.  More single family homes, bicycles over 
> buses, no trains or planes, take out hole in the wall eateries with open air 
> seating, no more hotels, apartment/condo, dense urban areas.
> 
> 
> clay 
> 
> I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.
> 
> 


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Re: [MBZ] So basically it is airborne and anything less than a N95 is a waste of time?

We’ve been happy with it. Personally, I can’t tell a big difference as we 
didn’t have a point of reference having only been in the house a couple of 
weeks after I installed it. However, the one we had in our previous house did 
make a noticeable difference for everyone, and I will say that I noticed a lot 
less dust collecting on surfaces, too. I don’t have allergies or respiratory 
issues, either, like some of the other folks in the house, so it’s effects on 
me would be limited.

-D

> On Jul 8, 2020, at 3:57 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Thanks Dan, very timely, I had just made up my mind to get something like 
> this for our house.
> 
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> 
> Jul 8, 2020 2:24:45 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes  >:
> 
>> I have one of these in my AC system:
>> 
>> https://www.rgf.com/products/air/reme-halo/ 
>>  
>> > >
>> 
>> We had one of their earlier devices in our former house:
>> 
>> https://www.rgf.com/products/air/guardian-air-qr/ 
>>  
>> > >
>> 
>> These do a fantastic job of reducing airborne dust and particulates. People 
>> in the house that have allergies reported a significant reduction in their 
>> reactions when we had these installed (without their knowledge so there was 
>> no placebo effect, I might add.) I believe the REME-HALO also kills or 
>> reduces bacteria and viruses as well.
>> 
>> We didn’t do this in response to the current situation, I installed this 
>> back in January shortly after we moved in. Our experience with the earlier 
>> product from the same company convinced me that the REME-HALO would be even 
>> better in regards to improving our interior air quality.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>>> On Jul 8, 2020, at 2:10 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I agree with Grant - the AC systems must be a factor if the virii are
>>> airborne. I wonder if the UV air sterilizers would be effective? That would
>>> seem to me to be the easiest and perhaps most effective way of dealing with
>>> the air systems. Until then, wear your N95 mask in the store ...
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 11:54 AM G Mann via Mercedes 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 Yeah.. but...
 What is the air exchange rate in a commercial air handler... How many
 minutes does air sucked in [through filters that likely are NOT N95] stay
 inside the air handler before it is cooled or heated and pushed back out
 and spread over the entire building?
 
 My personal view is that it acts as a 40 hp sneeze ... one Karen sneezes or
 farts.. gets sucked up by air system and spreads, in minutes, or seconds,
 to the whole building... and I see no one addressing this  vector.. air is
 moved, virus is airborne... stays mixed in the air... thus infection
 transmits.
 
 Where are the experts on this?
 
 On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 9:38 AM Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
 mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
 
> I think early on it was thought the viri could live on surfaces for some
> time but that has been found not to be the case so much, looks to be
> mostly direct airborne contact now.  i wouldn't think air handlers would
> be a (relatively) major concern
> 
> -_FT
> 
> On 7/8/20 12:26 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:
>> One item of concern that has, to date, not been addressed to my
>> satisfaction.
>> 
>> The air handling systems in buildings.. What is being done to clean the
>> systems ?  We wear masks in stores... yet hundreds of people come and
 go
> in
>> a single day, so the opportunity for someone with infection to be
> spreading
>> virus exists... yet, I've seen NOTHING that addresses the cleaning of
 air
>> handlers in stores..
>> 
>> Example, Legionnaires Disease... source vector. the air handlers...
>> 
>> Covid 19 has so many unknowns and unaddressed issues... I see multiple
> bad
>> management issues.. from local to national...
>> 
>> Anyone seen anything address the inside air quality vector?
>> 
>> On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 7:14 AM Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I only wear N95 into stores. I wear cloth when out and about outside
> where
>>> masks have been mandated by local authorities or else.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Jul 7, 2020, at 9:54 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
 
>>> 
 https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/07/07/1004841/a-group-of-239-scientists-say-theres-growing-evidence-covid-19-is-airborne/
 
 ___
>>

Re: [MBZ] So basically it is airborne and anything less than a N95 is a waste of time?

2020-07-08 Thread Clay via Mercedes

This morning’s news claims one million new plague infections took place in 
June.  That means in 100 months we will have achieved Herd Immunity.  Hmmm.  
Looks like nine years to go.  Which of us is going to tolerate being masked up 
for almost a decade?  

Forty years ago we had an outbreak of Legionnaires’ disease.  Seems somebody 
would have made changes to HVAC codes for enclosed spaces to control the spread 
of contagion.  But that has not taken place, as each season at least one cruise 
ship has outbreak of respiratory diseases.  Do we tear down high density 
housing and commercial space?  Allow only open air markets?  Ban travel unless 
you are in air tight pods?

It seems there will be a new way of life that is incompatible with current 
economical and cultural traditions.  More single family homes, bicycles over 
buses, no trains or planes, take out hole in the wall eateries with open air 
seating, no more hotels, apartment/condo, dense urban areas.


clay 

I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.



> On Jul 8, 2020, at 5:27 AM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> The question is not so much whether it spreads as an aerosol. We had 120
> people from a single bar in Mankato test positive shortly after they
> reopened. We had about a hundred people infected in South Korean dance
> classes. 60 of 80 people from a single choir rehearsal in Washington state.
> It definitely can hang around in the air indoors and it can be transmitted
> that way if the viral concentration in air is high enough, i e. If
> ventilation/air exchange is not high.
> 
> The question is how often this occurs. I would say even once is plenty of
> evidence, but the who is dragging its feet. Again a case of what to do when
> you don't have super high quality evidence (no randomized blinded studies)
> but the facts on the ground are empirically telling you something. Policy
> does not always have the luxury of waiting for high quality evidence.
> Sometimes you have to act on whatever evidence you have available because
> you are overtaken by events (like 130,000 people dying and the global
> airline industry being shut down nearly completely and Europe closong its
> borders to US citizens).
> 
> Anyway at this point anyone is going to be hard pressed to say it is NOT
> transmitted through the air in confined spaces across relatively large
> distances. WHO just doesnt want to say that, because it has huge
> ramifications for building and commercial aircraft redesign, among other
> things, that will take time and lots of money to implement, which means
> continued economic misery for lots of sectors of the economy. Compared to
> that, wearing masks is starting to look attractive, so major retailers are
> now asking the feds to issue national policy guidance to require them in
> stores, mainly to avoid employees having to fight with customers about it
> and encourage compliance.
> 
> The surgical masks will still slow transmission from infected people. N95
> also, but not the ones with exhaust valves. Something like 20-40% of people
> develop only minor symptoms, so pretty much everyone has to wear one to
> slow transmission enough to contain the epidemic and let it die down to
> manageable levels. It isnt asking very much. Relatively few people here in
> South Dakota are wearing one, but I expect that to change. The awareness of
> the disease and people's perceived vulnerability to it are highly variable
> across the country at the moment.
> 
> 


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Re: [MBZ] So basically it is airborne and anything less than a N95 is a waste of time?

2020-07-08 Thread Max Dillon via Mercedes

Thanks Dan, very timely, I had just made up my mind to get something like this 
for our house.

Max Dillon
Charleston SC

Jul 8, 2020 2:24:45 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes :

> I have one of these in my AC system:
> 
> https://www.rgf.com/products/air/reme-halo/ 
> 
> 
> We had one of their earlier devices in our former house:
> 
> https://www.rgf.com/products/air/guardian-air-qr/ 
> 
> 
> These do a fantastic job of reducing airborne dust and particulates. People 
> in the house that have allergies reported a significant reduction in their 
> reactions when we had these installed (without their knowledge so there was 
> no placebo effect, I might add.) I believe the REME-HALO also kills or 
> reduces bacteria and viruses as well.
> 
> We didn’t do this in response to the current situation, I installed this back 
> in January shortly after we moved in. Our experience with the earlier product 
> from the same company convinced me that the REME-HALO would be even better in 
> regards to improving our interior air quality.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Jul 8, 2020, at 2:10 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I agree with Grant - the AC systems must be a factor if the virii are
>> airborne. I wonder if the UV air sterilizers would be effective? That would
>> seem to me to be the easiest and perhaps most effective way of dealing with
>> the air systems. Until then, wear your N95 mask in the store ...
>> 
>> On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 11:54 AM G Mann via Mercedes 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Yeah.. but...
>>> What is the air exchange rate in a commercial air handler... How many
>>> minutes does air sucked in [through filters that likely are NOT N95] stay
>>> inside the air handler before it is cooled or heated and pushed back out
>>> and spread over the entire building?
>>> 
>>> My personal view is that it acts as a 40 hp sneeze ... one Karen sneezes or
>>> farts.. gets sucked up by air system and spreads, in minutes, or seconds,
>>> to the whole building... and I see no one addressing this  vector.. air is
>>> moved, virus is airborne... stays mixed in the air... thus infection
>>> transmits.
>>> 
>>> Where are the experts on this?
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 9:38 AM Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
 I think early on it was thought the viri could live on surfaces for some
 time but that has been found not to be the case so much, looks to be
 mostly direct airborne contact now.  i wouldn't think air handlers would
 be a (relatively) major concern
 
 -_FT
 
 On 7/8/20 12:26 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:
> One item of concern that has, to date, not been addressed to my
> satisfaction.
> 
> The air handling systems in buildings.. What is being done to clean the
> systems ?  We wear masks in stores... yet hundreds of people come and
>>> go
 in
> a single day, so the opportunity for someone with infection to be
 spreading
> virus exists... yet, I've seen NOTHING that addresses the cleaning of
>>> air
> handlers in stores..
> 
> Example, Legionnaires Disease... source vector. the air handlers...
> 
> Covid 19 has so many unknowns and unaddressed issues... I see multiple
 bad
> management issues.. from local to national...
> 
> Anyone seen anything address the inside air quality vector?
> 
> On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 7:14 AM Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> I only wear N95 into stores. I wear cloth when out and about outside
 where
>> masks have been mandated by local authorities or else.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jul 7, 2020, at 9:54 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>>> https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/07/07/1004841/a-group-of-239-scientists-say-theres-growing-evidence-covid-19-is-airborne/
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
 -- 
 --FT
 
 ___
 http://www.okiebe

Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

On Wed, July 8, 2020 2:40 pm, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:
> Actually, the degree of recovery has come into question with things like
> lasting lung damage, etc.

Scar tissue in the lungs is bad.
Lack of oxygen to the brain, if allowed to persist before getting medical
attention, is bad. I haven't heard of anybody with stroke symptoms as a
result of COVID, but I can imagine it happening.
Loss of taste is a major annoyance, less so if it comes back in
weeks/months to follow.

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Re: [MBZ] So basically it is airborne and anything less than a N95 is a waste of time?

I DIY’ed it, took all of maybe five minutes to do it. The previous one we had 
was installed when we replace the AC system in 2017.

The only catch is that they won’t warrant the unit if you DIY. They want it 
installed by an HVAC contractor, which is a bit scammy if you ask me, but I can 
sort of understand their logic. I rolled the dice and did it myself. You have 
to cut a hole about 3” in diameter in the plenum after your air handler in the 
supply. Mine is the duct board stuff, so it was easy to do. There’s a 40VA 
transformer that provides low voltage to the unit that needs to be powered up. 
I had a receptacle nearby I was able to plug it into, but you could certainly 
hard wire it as well. It stays on all the time.

The REME-HALO was close to $500, I think. The previous “Air Guardian”, which 
did a great job, too, was maybe $250-$300? It’s also DIY’able, too.

-D

> On Jul 8, 2020, at 3:06 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I looked into something similar several years ago. Not sure why I didn’t get 
> it. Did you have it installed or diy? Cost?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 8, 2020, at 1:24 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes > > wrote:
>> 
>> I have one of these in my AC system:
>> 
>> https://www.rgf.com/products/air/reme-halo/ 
>>  
>> > >
>> 
>> We had one of their earlier devices in our former house:
>> 
>> https://www.rgf.com/products/air/guardian-air-qr/ 
>>  
>> > >
>> 
>> These do a fantastic job of reducing airborne dust and particulates. People 
>> in the house that have allergies reported a significant reduction in their 
>> reactions when we had these installed (without their knowledge so there was 
>> no placebo effect, I might add.) I believe the REME-HALO also kills or 
>> reduces bacteria and viruses as well.
>> 
>> We didn’t do this in response to the current situation, I installed this 
>> back in January shortly after we moved in. Our experience with the earlier 
>> product from the same company convinced me that the REME-HALO would be even 
>> better in regards to improving our interior air quality.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>>> On Jul 8, 2020, at 2:10 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I agree with Grant - the AC systems must be a factor if the virii are
>>> airborne. I wonder if the UV air sterilizers would be effective? That would
>>> seem to me to be the easiest and perhaps most effective way of dealing with
>>> the air systems. Until then, wear your N95 mask in the store ...
>>> 
 On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 11:54 AM G Mann via Mercedes 
 wrote:

 Yeah.. but...
 What is the air exchange rate in a commercial air handler... How many
 minutes does air sucked in [through filters that likely are NOT N95] stay
 inside the air handler before it is cooled or heated and pushed back out
 and spread over the entire building?

 My personal view is that it acts as a 40 hp sneeze ... one Karen sneezes or
 farts.. gets sucked up by air system and spreads, in minutes, or seconds,
 to the whole building... and I see no one addressing this  vector.. air is
 moved, virus is airborne... stays mixed in the air... thus infection
 transmits.

 Where are the experts on this?

 On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 9:38 AM Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
 mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I think early on it was thought the viri could live on surfaces for some
> time but that has been found not to be the case so much, looks to be
> mostly direct airborne contact now.  i wouldn't think air handlers would
> be a (relatively) major concern
> 
> -_FT
> 
> On 7/8/20 12:26 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:
>> One item of concern that has, to date, not been addressed to my
>> satisfaction.
>> 
>> The air handling systems in buildings.. What is being done to clean the
>> systems ?  We wear masks in stores... yet hundreds of people come and
 go
> in
>> a single day, so the opportunity for someone with infection to be
> spreading
>> virus exists... yet, I've seen NOTHING that addresses the cleaning of
 air
>> handlers in stores..
>> 
>> Example, Legionnaires Disease... source vector. the air handlers...
>> 
>> Covid 19 has so many unknowns and unaddressed issues... I see multiple
> bad
>> management issues.. from local to national...
>> 
>> Anyone seen anything address the inside air quality vector?
>> 
>> On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 7:14 AM Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I only wear N95 into stores. I wear cloth when out and about outside
> wher

Re: [MBZ] So basically it is airborne and anything less than a N95 is a waste of time?

I looked into something similar several years ago. Not sure why I didn’t get 
it. Did you have it installed or diy? Cost?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 8, 2020, at 1:24 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I have one of these in my AC system:
> 
> https://www.rgf.com/products/air/reme-halo/ 
> 
> 
> We had one of their earlier devices in our former house:
> 
> https://www.rgf.com/products/air/guardian-air-qr/ 
> 
> 
> These do a fantastic job of reducing airborne dust and particulates. People 
> in the house that have allergies reported a significant reduction in their 
> reactions when we had these installed (without their knowledge so there was 
> no placebo effect, I might add.) I believe the REME-HALO also kills or 
> reduces bacteria and viruses as well.
> 
> We didn’t do this in response to the current situation, I installed this back 
> in January shortly after we moved in. Our experience with the earlier product 
> from the same company convinced me that the REME-HALO would be even better in 
> regards to improving our interior air quality.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Jul 8, 2020, at 2:10 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I agree with Grant - the AC systems must be a factor if the virii are
>> airborne. I wonder if the UV air sterilizers would be effective? That would
>> seem to me to be the easiest and perhaps most effective way of dealing with
>> the air systems. Until then, wear your N95 mask in the store ...
>> 
>>> On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 11:54 AM G Mann via Mercedes 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yeah.. but...
>>> What is the air exchange rate in a commercial air handler... How many
>>> minutes does air sucked in [through filters that likely are NOT N95] stay
>>> inside the air handler before it is cooled or heated and pushed back out
>>> and spread over the entire building?
>>> 
>>> My personal view is that it acts as a 40 hp sneeze ... one Karen sneezes or
>>> farts.. gets sucked up by air system and spreads, in minutes, or seconds,
>>> to the whole building... and I see no one addressing this  vector.. air is
>>> moved, virus is airborne... stays mixed in the air... thus infection
>>> transmits.
>>> 
>>> Where are the experts on this?
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 9:38 AM Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
 I think early on it was thought the viri could live on surfaces for some
 time but that has been found not to be the case so much, looks to be
 mostly direct airborne contact now.  i wouldn't think air handlers would
 be a (relatively) major concern
 
 -_FT
 
 On 7/8/20 12:26 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:
> One item of concern that has, to date, not been addressed to my
> satisfaction.
> 
> The air handling systems in buildings.. What is being done to clean the
> systems ?  We wear masks in stores... yet hundreds of people come and
>>> go
 in
> a single day, so the opportunity for someone with infection to be
 spreading
> virus exists... yet, I've seen NOTHING that addresses the cleaning of
>>> air
> handlers in stores..
> 
> Example, Legionnaires Disease... source vector. the air handlers...
> 
> Covid 19 has so many unknowns and unaddressed issues... I see multiple
 bad
> management issues.. from local to national...
> 
> Anyone seen anything address the inside air quality vector?
> 
> On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 7:14 AM Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> I only wear N95 into stores. I wear cloth when out and about outside
 where
>> masks have been mandated by local authorities or else.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jul 7, 2020, at 9:54 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>> 
 
>>> https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/07/07/1004841/a-group-of-239-scientists-say-theres-growing-evidence-covid-19-is-airborne/
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
 --
 --FT
 
>>

Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

2020-07-08 Thread OK Don via Mercedes

Actually, the degree of recovery has come into question with things like
lasting lung damage, etc.

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 1:19 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes  writes:
>
> That's an odd statement. Seems to me the death count is the *only* thing
> that matters. Otherwise, you're just sick and eventually recover.
>
> Allan
>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

That is what I thought also, but then again so much about this whole deal seems 
to defy logic 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 8, 2020, at 1:19 PM, Allan Streib  wrote:
> 
> Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes  writes:
> 
>> You don’t hear about this on the news. Actually last night I
>> did. Fauci was saying don’t be fooled by the drop in the death
>> count. It means nothing.
> 
> That's an odd statement. Seems to me the death count is the *only* thing
> that matters. Otherwise, you're just sick and eventually recover.
> 
> Allan


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Re: [MBZ] So basically it is airborne and anything less than a N95 is a waste of time?

I have one of these in my AC system:

https://www.rgf.com/products/air/reme-halo/ 


We had one of their earlier devices in our former house:

https://www.rgf.com/products/air/guardian-air-qr/ 


These do a fantastic job of reducing airborne dust and particulates. People in 
the house that have allergies reported a significant reduction in their 
reactions when we had these installed (without their knowledge so there was no 
placebo effect, I might add.) I believe the REME-HALO also kills or reduces 
bacteria and viruses as well.

We didn’t do this in response to the current situation, I installed this back 
in January shortly after we moved in. Our experience with the earlier product 
from the same company convinced me that the REME-HALO would be even better in 
regards to improving our interior air quality.

-D

> On Jul 8, 2020, at 2:10 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> I agree with Grant - the AC systems must be a factor if the virii are
> airborne. I wonder if the UV air sterilizers would be effective? That would
> seem to me to be the easiest and perhaps most effective way of dealing with
> the air systems. Until then, wear your N95 mask in the store ...
> 
> On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 11:54 AM G Mann via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> 
>> Yeah.. but...
>> What is the air exchange rate in a commercial air handler... How many
>> minutes does air sucked in [through filters that likely are NOT N95] stay
>> inside the air handler before it is cooled or heated and pushed back out
>> and spread over the entire building?
>> 
>> My personal view is that it acts as a 40 hp sneeze ... one Karen sneezes or
>> farts.. gets sucked up by air system and spreads, in minutes, or seconds,
>> to the whole building... and I see no one addressing this  vector.. air is
>> moved, virus is airborne... stays mixed in the air... thus infection
>> transmits.
>> 
>> Where are the experts on this?
>> 
>> On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 9:38 AM Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I think early on it was thought the viri could live on surfaces for some
>>> time but that has been found not to be the case so much, looks to be
>>> mostly direct airborne contact now.  i wouldn't think air handlers would
>>> be a (relatively) major concern
>>> 
>>> -_FT
>>> 
>>> On 7/8/20 12:26 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:
 One item of concern that has, to date, not been addressed to my
 satisfaction.
 
 The air handling systems in buildings.. What is being done to clean the
 systems ?  We wear masks in stores... yet hundreds of people come and
>> go
>>> in
 a single day, so the opportunity for someone with infection to be
>>> spreading
 virus exists... yet, I've seen NOTHING that addresses the cleaning of
>> air
 handlers in stores..
 
 Example, Legionnaires Disease... source vector. the air handlers...
 
 Covid 19 has so many unknowns and unaddressed issues... I see multiple
>>> bad
 management issues.. from local to national...
 
 Anyone seen anything address the inside air quality vector?
 
 On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 7:14 AM Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes <
 mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
 
> I only wear N95 into stores. I wear cloth when out and about outside
>>> where
> masks have been mandated by local authorities or else.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 7, 2020, at 9:54 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
> 
>>> 
>> https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/07/07/1004841/a-group-of-239-scientists-say-theres-growing-evidence-covid-19-is-airborne/
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
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> 
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 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>>> --
>>> --FT
>>> 
>>> 
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>> To search lis

Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

2020-07-08 Thread Allan Streib via Mercedes

Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes  writes:

> You don’t hear about this on the news. Actually last night I
> did. Fauci was saying don’t be fooled by the drop in the death
> count. It means nothing.

That's an odd statement. Seems to me the death count is the *only* thing
that matters. Otherwise, you're just sick and eventually recover.

Allan

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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

2020-07-08 Thread fmiser via Mercedes

> Meade wrote:

> Sure, when one is sick, wearing a mask to catch the droplets
> when you cough or sneeze is valid.  No argument there.

Maybe there should be.  Big droplets will quickly drop to the
ground.  Most folks recognize that the ground isn't clean and
rarely put their feet or their faces without washing first.

With a mask, those droplets stay on the mask, and can easily get
on hands, and then hands touch other things that are usually
treated less carefully than the floor.

So there _is_ an argument than a mask could make it less safe for
others than no mask.

Just say'n.

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Re: [MBZ] So basically it is airborne and anything less than a N95 is a waste of time?

2020-07-08 Thread OK Don via Mercedes

I agree with Grant - the AC systems must be a factor if the virii are
airborne. I wonder if the UV air sterilizers would be effective? That would
seem to me to be the easiest and perhaps most effective way of dealing with
the air systems. Until then, wear your N95 mask in the store ...

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 11:54 AM G Mann via Mercedes 
wrote:

> Yeah.. but...
> What is the air exchange rate in a commercial air handler... How many
> minutes does air sucked in [through filters that likely are NOT N95] stay
> inside the air handler before it is cooled or heated and pushed back out
> and spread over the entire building?
>
> My personal view is that it acts as a 40 hp sneeze ... one Karen sneezes or
> farts.. gets sucked up by air system and spreads, in minutes, or seconds,
> to the whole building... and I see no one addressing this  vector.. air is
> moved, virus is airborne... stays mixed in the air... thus infection
> transmits.
>
> Where are the experts on this?
>
> On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 9:38 AM Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > I think early on it was thought the viri could live on surfaces for some
> > time but that has been found not to be the case so much, looks to be
> > mostly direct airborne contact now.  i wouldn't think air handlers would
> > be a (relatively) major concern
> >
> > -_FT
> >
> > On 7/8/20 12:26 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:
> > > One item of concern that has, to date, not been addressed to my
> > > satisfaction.
> > >
> > > The air handling systems in buildings.. What is being done to clean the
> > > systems ?  We wear masks in stores... yet hundreds of people come and
> go
> > in
> > > a single day, so the opportunity for someone with infection to be
> > spreading
> > > virus exists... yet, I've seen NOTHING that addresses the cleaning of
> air
> > > handlers in stores..
> > >
> > > Example, Legionnaires Disease... source vector. the air handlers...
> > >
> > > Covid 19 has so many unknowns and unaddressed issues... I see multiple
> > bad
> > > management issues.. from local to national...
> > >
> > > Anyone seen anything address the inside air quality vector?
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 7:14 AM Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes <
> > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> I only wear N95 into stores. I wear cloth when out and about outside
> > where
> > >> masks have been mandated by local authorities or else.
> > >>
> > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>
> > >>> On Jul 7, 2020, at 9:54 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> > >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >>> 
> > >>
> >
> https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/07/07/1004841/a-group-of-239-scientists-say-theres-growing-evidence-covid-19-is-airborne/
> > >>>
> > >>> ___
> > >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >>>
> > >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >>>
> > >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> ___
> > >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >>
> > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >>
> > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >>
> > >>
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> > --
> > --FT
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
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> >
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-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] So basically it is airborne and anything less than a N95 is a waste of time?

There was only one person at the beginning of the conversation that tried to 
turn it political but otherwise has been interesting points brought up. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 8, 2020, at 12:02 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Thank you, Grant. Despite this being a somewhat contentious topic, nearly 
> all of the respondents have done an excellent job staying on topic and being 
> respectful.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Jul 8, 2020, at 12:59 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I would like to respond to that.. but.. it would be "political on this
>> board" and thus not acceptable...
>> 
>>> On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 9:54 AM Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Channeling Marshall Booth: "Change your filters or your LUNGS will MELT!"
>>> 
>>> Prediction: If Biden wins, the Wuhan Red Death will drop out of the news
>>> cycle permanently.  If Trump wins, Americans will continue to die at an
>>> alarming rate, and We MUST DO SOMETHING!
>>> -
>>> Max
>>> Charleston SC
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 12:27 PM G Mann via Mercedes >>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 One item of concern that has, to date, not been addressed to my
 satisfaction.
 
 The air handling systems in buildings.. What is being done to clean the
 systems ?  We wear masks in stores... yet hundreds of people come and go
>>> in
 a single day, so the opportunity for someone with infection to be
>>> spreading
 virus exists... yet, I've seen NOTHING that addresses the cleaning of air
 handlers in stores..
 
 Example, Legionnaires Disease... source vector. the air handlers...
 
 Covid 19 has so many unknowns and unaddressed issues... I see multiple
>>> bad
 management issues.. from local to national...
 
 Anyone seen anything address the inside air quality vector?
 
 On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 7:14 AM Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes <
 mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
 
> I only wear N95 into stores. I wear cloth when out and about outside
 where
> masks have been mandated by local authorities or else.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 7, 2020, at 9:54 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
> 
 
>>> https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/07/07/1004841/a-group-of-239-scientists-say-theres-growing-evidence-covid-19-is-airborne/
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> 
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>> 
> 
> 
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> 
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 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
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>>> 
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Re: [MBZ] So basically it is airborne and anything less than a N95 is a waste of time?

I was amazed we were having a conversation about this for days without it being 
political, and now it appears we reached the limit. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 8, 2020, at 11:54 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Channeling Marshall Booth: "Change your filters or your LUNGS will MELT!"
> 
> Prediction: If Biden wins, the Wuhan Red Death will drop out of the news
> cycle permanently.  If Trump wins, Americans will continue to die at an
> alarming rate, and We MUST DO SOMETHING!
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
> 
> 
>> On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 12:27 PM G Mann via Mercedes 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> One item of concern that has, to date, not been addressed to my
>> satisfaction.
>> 
>> The air handling systems in buildings.. What is being done to clean the
>> systems ?  We wear masks in stores... yet hundreds of people come and go in
>> a single day, so the opportunity for someone with infection to be spreading
>> virus exists... yet, I've seen NOTHING that addresses the cleaning of air
>> handlers in stores..
>> 
>> Example, Legionnaires Disease... source vector. the air handlers...
>> 
>> Covid 19 has so many unknowns and unaddressed issues... I see multiple bad
>> management issues.. from local to national...
>> 
>> Anyone seen anything address the inside air quality vector?
>> 
>> On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 7:14 AM Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I only wear N95 into stores. I wear cloth when out and about outside
>> where
>>> masks have been mandated by local authorities or else.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Jul 7, 2020, at 9:54 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
 
 
>>> 
>> https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/07/07/1004841/a-group-of-239-scientists-say-theres-growing-evidence-covid-19-is-airborne/
 
 
 ___
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 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> 
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

2020-07-08 Thread fmiser via Mercedes

> Jaime wrote:

>  ...lock down has been very successful. 

Or it did nothing and the virus was much less dangerous than forecast.

> Saying otherwise is ignoring scientifically proven facts for
> political agenda. 

Or saying it help is ignoring scientifically proven facts and
favoring political agenda.

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Re: [MBZ] So basically it is airborne and anything less than a N95 is a waste of time?

2020-07-08 Thread Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes

Nonpolitically speaking, I can't overstate what a relief it is to learn
that Dimitri is taking precautions against COV 19.  We can't afford to lose
him!  One day I (or someone else) will need to rely on his elite welding
expertise to repair a rust panel or two, on a pro bono basis of course.

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 1:02 PM Dwight Giles via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Thank you for your restraint to a very political post.
>
> Dwight Giles Jr.
> Wickford RI
>
> On Wed, Jul 8, 2020, 1:00 PM G Mann via Mercedes 
> wrote:
>
> > I would like to respond to that.. but.. it would be "political on this
> > board" and thus not acceptable...
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 9:54 AM Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Channeling Marshall Booth: "Change your filters or your LUNGS will
> MELT!"
> > >
> > > Prediction: If Biden wins, the Wuhan Red Death will drop out of the
> news
> > > cycle permanently.  If Trump wins, Americans will continue to die at an
> > > alarming rate, and We MUST DO SOMETHING!
> > > -
> > > Max
> > > Charleston SC
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 12:27 PM G Mann via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com
> > > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > One item of concern that has, to date, not been addressed to my
> > > > satisfaction.
> > > >
> > > > The air handling systems in buildings.. What is being done to clean
> the
> > > > systems ?  We wear masks in stores... yet hundreds of people come and
> > go
> > > in
> > > > a single day, so the opportunity for someone with infection to be
> > > spreading
> > > > virus exists... yet, I've seen NOTHING that addresses the cleaning of
> > air
> > > > handlers in stores..
> > > >
> > > > Example, Legionnaires Disease... source vector. the air
> handlers...
> > > >
> > > > Covid 19 has so many unknowns and unaddressed issues... I see
> multiple
> > > bad
> > > > management issues.. from local to national...
> > > >
> > > > Anyone seen anything address the inside air quality vector?
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 7:14 AM Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes <
> > > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I only wear N95 into stores. I wear cloth when out and about
> outside
> > > > where
> > > > > masks have been mandated by local authorities or else.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Jul 7, 2020, at 9:54 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> > > > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/07/07/1004841/a-group-of-239-scientists-say-theres-growing-evidence-covid-19-is-airborne/
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ___
> > > > > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > > > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ___
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> > > > >
> > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > > > >
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> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > ___
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> > > >
> > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > > >
> > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > ___
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> > >
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> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> > >
> > >
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> >
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Re: [MBZ] So basically it is airborne and anything less than a N95 is a waste of time?

2020-07-08 Thread Dwight Giles via Mercedes

Thank you for your restraint to a very political post.

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020, 1:00 PM G Mann via Mercedes 
wrote:

> I would like to respond to that.. but.. it would be "political on this
> board" and thus not acceptable...
>
> On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 9:54 AM Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Channeling Marshall Booth: "Change your filters or your LUNGS will MELT!"
> >
> > Prediction: If Biden wins, the Wuhan Red Death will drop out of the news
> > cycle permanently.  If Trump wins, Americans will continue to die at an
> > alarming rate, and We MUST DO SOMETHING!
> > -
> > Max
> > Charleston SC
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 12:27 PM G Mann via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > One item of concern that has, to date, not been addressed to my
> > > satisfaction.
> > >
> > > The air handling systems in buildings.. What is being done to clean the
> > > systems ?  We wear masks in stores... yet hundreds of people come and
> go
> > in
> > > a single day, so the opportunity for someone with infection to be
> > spreading
> > > virus exists... yet, I've seen NOTHING that addresses the cleaning of
> air
> > > handlers in stores..
> > >
> > > Example, Legionnaires Disease... source vector. the air handlers...
> > >
> > > Covid 19 has so many unknowns and unaddressed issues... I see multiple
> > bad
> > > management issues.. from local to national...
> > >
> > > Anyone seen anything address the inside air quality vector?
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 7:14 AM Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes <
> > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I only wear N95 into stores. I wear cloth when out and about outside
> > > where
> > > > masks have been mandated by local authorities or else.
> > > >
> > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > >
> > > > > On Jul 7, 2020, at 9:54 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> > > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > 
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/07/07/1004841/a-group-of-239-scientists-say-theres-growing-evidence-covid-19-is-airborne/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ___
> > > > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > > > >
> > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
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Re: [MBZ] So basically it is airborne and anything less than a N95 is a waste of time?

Thank you, Grant. Despite this being a somewhat contentious topic, nearly all 
of the respondents have done an excellent job staying on topic and being 
respectful.

-D

> On Jul 8, 2020, at 12:59 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I would like to respond to that.. but.. it would be "political on this
> board" and thus not acceptable...
> 
> On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 9:54 AM Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> Channeling Marshall Booth: "Change your filters or your LUNGS will MELT!"
>> 
>> Prediction: If Biden wins, the Wuhan Red Death will drop out of the news
>> cycle permanently.  If Trump wins, Americans will continue to die at an
>> alarming rate, and We MUST DO SOMETHING!
>> -
>> Max
>> Charleston SC
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 12:27 PM G Mann via Mercedes >> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> One item of concern that has, to date, not been addressed to my
>>> satisfaction.
>>> 
>>> The air handling systems in buildings.. What is being done to clean the
>>> systems ?  We wear masks in stores... yet hundreds of people come and go
>> in
>>> a single day, so the opportunity for someone with infection to be
>> spreading
>>> virus exists... yet, I've seen NOTHING that addresses the cleaning of air
>>> handlers in stores..
>>> 
>>> Example, Legionnaires Disease... source vector. the air handlers...
>>> 
>>> Covid 19 has so many unknowns and unaddressed issues... I see multiple
>> bad
>>> management issues.. from local to national...
>>> 
>>> Anyone seen anything address the inside air quality vector?
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 7:14 AM Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
 I only wear N95 into stores. I wear cloth when out and about outside
>>> where
 masks have been mandated by local authorities or else.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Jul 7, 2020, at 9:54 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
 mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> 
 
>>> 
>> https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/07/07/1004841/a-group-of-239-scientists-say-theres-growing-evidence-covid-19-is-airborne/
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] So basically it is airborne and anything less than a N95 is a waste of time?

2020-07-08 Thread G Mann via Mercedes

I would like to respond to that.. but.. it would be "political on this
board" and thus not acceptable...

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 9:54 AM Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Channeling Marshall Booth: "Change your filters or your LUNGS will MELT!"
>
> Prediction: If Biden wins, the Wuhan Red Death will drop out of the news
> cycle permanently.  If Trump wins, Americans will continue to die at an
> alarming rate, and We MUST DO SOMETHING!
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 12:27 PM G Mann via Mercedes  >
> wrote:
>
> > One item of concern that has, to date, not been addressed to my
> > satisfaction.
> >
> > The air handling systems in buildings.. What is being done to clean the
> > systems ?  We wear masks in stores... yet hundreds of people come and go
> in
> > a single day, so the opportunity for someone with infection to be
> spreading
> > virus exists... yet, I've seen NOTHING that addresses the cleaning of air
> > handlers in stores..
> >
> > Example, Legionnaires Disease... source vector. the air handlers...
> >
> > Covid 19 has so many unknowns and unaddressed issues... I see multiple
> bad
> > management issues.. from local to national...
> >
> > Anyone seen anything address the inside air quality vector?
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 7:14 AM Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I only wear N95 into stores. I wear cloth when out and about outside
> > where
> > > masks have been mandated by local authorities or else.
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > > > On Jul 7, 2020, at 9:54 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > 
> > >
> >
> https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/07/07/1004841/a-group-of-239-scientists-say-theres-growing-evidence-covid-19-is-airborne/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ___
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> > > >
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> > > >
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> > >
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

2020-07-08 Thread Dwight Giles via Mercedes

Thank you Karl. This is very helpful.

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020, 10:42 AM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Kaleb, I agree that this epidemic has been disruptive to the economy. But
> the economic pain will be far greater if the epidemic continues to affect
> the US disproportionately to other countries.
>
> The article is good. But it makes no mention of CO2 or O2. This is because
> all that gas exchange concern is complete crap designed to make people
> afraid of masks. Don't listen to it. Something like a billion people are
> wearing them and somehow surviving just fine. This is common sense. I wear
> one all day every day. The article describes lack of evidence for mask
> effectiveness for influenza, which believe it or not acts differently from
> this virus because it is less often asymptomatic/minimally symptomatic and
> it is not shed in high quantities early in the illness before severe
> symptoms develop. I actually had this discussion with our head of hospital
> epi at the beginning of the epidemic, and he came at me with the lack of
> evidence for public wearing the mask. Not to repeat myself, but sometimes
> you have to make policy on less than watertight evidence. And the evidence
> for mask effectiveness is stronger for this disease, partly as a result of
> the disease and partly as a result of us devoting more resources to
> answering this question.
>
> You have nothing to lose by wearing a mask, except the mask cost and slight
> inconvenience of adjusting behavior.
>
> Flying is a lot lower risk now that no one is doing it. Incidentally the
> original airliners were 100% fresh cabin air from the vents, but my dad
> told me yesterday that they were pulling too much power from the turbine
> compressors so they reduced it to the current 50% back in the 60/70s. The
> other problem is that the vents blow down and mix the warm air rising from
> the humans below. That will require redesign of aircraft even though the
> vent air is hepa  filtered. Problem is recirculation of the air in the
> cabin; lots of it is not filtered at all.
>
> You cannot just reject the curve numbers. Locking down definitely slowed
> transmission in Los Angeles. Our curve flattened with lockdown, then
> started rising again three weeks after reopening began, specifically 3
> weeks after Memorial Day weekend. I agree lockdowns are unprecedented and
> that there was therefore no evidence that they work, but consider there is
> no evidence that parachutes save skydivers either. Kind of hard to find
> controls for that study.
>
> You are right that for a majority of people this is a mild illness. That
> does not mean you will be in that majority, or people that you love, or
> even people in your church if you go to one. We still do not understand all
> the reasons for this. Certainly age, obesity and gender are risk factors.
> But they do not explain the otherwise healthy 41 year olds being
> hospitalized for 6 weeks. Not a majority, but it is happening. And we have
> lots of elderly and diabetic people in the nation, and people on
> immunosuppressive drugs for rheumatoid arthritis, psoriasis, organ
> transplantattion etc. Kind of cynical to tell them good luck but not do
> anything to help them reduce their risk of getting sick.
>
> Controlling this thing is not a very big deal economically or personally.
> NOT controlling it will be very costly to the economy over a long period of
> time. Decide which version of america you want to live in for the next year
> or two, and act accordingly. I would submit that hope is not a strategy,
> and that the beatings the virus is giving us will continue until morale
> improves.
>
> PS I found a used 2.88 diff on ebay. There were two of them, one 400
> dollars but it was already sent to the crusher, and one 499 a guy had in
> huntington beach. Reinvent has one but they want the typical 700 dollar
> fortune for it.
>
> One can play the "Youth is on my side and too bad for you" game, but that
> is sort of a bad attitude IMHO. Do unto others etc.
>
> Karl
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020, 11:27 AM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Lower o2 levels, higher co2 levels, mask catches all sorts of
> > contamination that you constantly breath in when putting dirty masks back
> > on. Here is an article I found from several years ago.
> >
> > https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4868614/
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Jul 7, 2020, at 12:18 PM, Andrew Strasfogel 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > I don't understand any possible downside from wearing a mask when
> > venturing outside and mingling with other people.
> > >
> > >> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:57 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >> The first mention of politics on this was just brought up by you. It
> > has nothing to do with politics. It has to do with facts and common
> sense.
> > If you want to wear a m

Re: [MBZ] So basically it is airborne and anything less than a N95 is a waste of time?

No politics or you’ll be moderated. No more warnings, folks.

The discussion has been civil and on topic until now. Let’s keep it that way.

List Mom/little hilter

> On Jul 8, 2020, at 12:52 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Channeling Marshall Booth: "Change your filters or your LUNGS will MELT!"
> 
> Prediction: If Biden wins, the Wuhan Red Death will drop out of the news
> cycle permanently.  If Trump wins, Americans will continue to die at an
> alarming rate, and We MUST DO SOMETHING!
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
> 
> 


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Re: [MBZ] 99E320 wagon banged up tailgate $2150

2020-07-08 Thread Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes

I will shortly

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 10:23 PM Dwight Giles via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Do you have another wagon for gate?
>
> Dwight Giles Jr.
> 1982 300CD
> 2005 E320 4matic
> Wickford RI
>
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020, 4:40 PM Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Other than that looks half decent
> >
> > https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/271054950985341/
> >
> > 1999 Mercedes-Benz E-Class · Reliable 3ed row seating Kerners
> > $2,150
> > Vehicles 
> > Listed 55 minutes ago in Kernersville, NC
> > 
> >
> >
> > About This Vehicle…
> >
> > Driven 181,100 miles
> > Automatic transmission
> > Exterior color: Silver · Interior color: Grey
> > Fuel type: Gasoline
> >
> >
> > Seller's description…
> >
> > 1999 Mercedes Benz E class wagon 6 cylinder Very reliable runs great!
> > perfect mechanic condition 180 k automatic Very reliable The best 3ow
> > 3rd row seat located in Kernersville Please call or text for more info
> > It is located in Kernersville New inspection clean CarFax [hidden
> > information] call or text
> >
> > --
> > --FT
> >
> > ___
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> >
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> >
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Re: [MBZ] So basically it is airborne and anything less than a N95 is a waste of time?

Channeling Marshall Booth: "Change your filters or your LUNGS will MELT!"

Prediction: If Biden wins, the Wuhan Red Death will drop out of the news
cycle permanently.  If Trump wins, Americans will continue to die at an
alarming rate, and We MUST DO SOMETHING!
-
Max
Charleston SC


On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 12:27 PM G Mann via Mercedes 
wrote:

> One item of concern that has, to date, not been addressed to my
> satisfaction.
>
> The air handling systems in buildings.. What is being done to clean the
> systems ?  We wear masks in stores... yet hundreds of people come and go in
> a single day, so the opportunity for someone with infection to be spreading
> virus exists... yet, I've seen NOTHING that addresses the cleaning of air
> handlers in stores..
>
> Example, Legionnaires Disease... source vector. the air handlers...
>
> Covid 19 has so many unknowns and unaddressed issues... I see multiple bad
> management issues.. from local to national...
>
> Anyone seen anything address the inside air quality vector?
>
> On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 7:14 AM Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > I only wear N95 into stores. I wear cloth when out and about outside
> where
> > masks have been mandated by local authorities or else.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Jul 7, 2020, at 9:54 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> >
> https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/07/07/1004841/a-group-of-239-scientists-say-theres-growing-evidence-covid-19-is-airborne/
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> >
> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
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Re: [MBZ] So basically it is airborne and anything less than a N95 is a waste of time?

2020-07-08 Thread G Mann via Mercedes

Yeah.. but...
What is the air exchange rate in a commercial air handler... How many
minutes does air sucked in [through filters that likely are NOT N95] stay
inside the air handler before it is cooled or heated and pushed back out
and spread over the entire building?

My personal view is that it acts as a 40 hp sneeze ... one Karen sneezes or
farts.. gets sucked up by air system and spreads, in minutes, or seconds,
to the whole building... and I see no one addressing this  vector.. air is
moved, virus is airborne... stays mixed in the air... thus infection
transmits.

Where are the experts on this?

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 9:38 AM Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I think early on it was thought the viri could live on surfaces for some
> time but that has been found not to be the case so much, looks to be
> mostly direct airborne contact now.  i wouldn't think air handlers would
> be a (relatively) major concern
>
> -_FT
>
> On 7/8/20 12:26 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:
> > One item of concern that has, to date, not been addressed to my
> > satisfaction.
> >
> > The air handling systems in buildings.. What is being done to clean the
> > systems ?  We wear masks in stores... yet hundreds of people come and go
> in
> > a single day, so the opportunity for someone with infection to be
> spreading
> > virus exists... yet, I've seen NOTHING that addresses the cleaning of air
> > handlers in stores..
> >
> > Example, Legionnaires Disease... source vector. the air handlers...
> >
> > Covid 19 has so many unknowns and unaddressed issues... I see multiple
> bad
> > management issues.. from local to national...
> >
> > Anyone seen anything address the inside air quality vector?
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 7:14 AM Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I only wear N95 into stores. I wear cloth when out and about outside
> where
> >> masks have been mandated by local authorities or else.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On Jul 7, 2020, at 9:54 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>
> https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/07/07/1004841/a-group-of-239-scientists-say-theres-growing-evidence-covid-19-is-airborne/
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>>
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> >>>
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
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> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> >>
> >>
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> --
> --FT
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] So basically it is airborne and anything less than a N95 is a waste of time?

2020-07-08 Thread Floyd Thursby via Mercedes

I think early on it was thought the viri could live on surfaces for some
time but that has been found not to be the case so much, looks to be
mostly direct airborne contact now. i wouldn't think air handlers would
be a (relatively) major concern

-_FT

On 7/8/20 12:26 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

One item of concern that has, to date, not been addressed to my
satisfaction.

The air handling systems in buildings.. What is being done to clean the
systems ? We wear masks in stores... yet hundreds of people come and go in
a single day, so the opportunity for someone with infection to be spreading
virus exists... yet, I've seen NOTHING that addresses the cleaning of air
handlers in stores..

Example, Legionnaires Disease... source vector. the air handlers...

Covid 19 has so many unknowns and unaddressed issues... I see multiple bad
management issues.. from local to national...

Anyone seen anything address the inside air quality vector?

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 7:14 AM Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

I only wear N95 into stores. I wear cloth when out and about outside where
masks have been mandated by local authorities or else.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 7, 2020, at 9:54 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <

mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/07/07/1004841/a-group-of-239-scientists-say-theres-growing-evidence-covid-19-is-airborne/

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--
--FT

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Re: [MBZ] So basically it is airborne and anything less than a N95 is a waste of time?

2020-07-08 Thread G Mann via Mercedes

One item of concern that has, to date, not been addressed to my
satisfaction.

The air handling systems in buildings.. What is being done to clean the
systems ?  We wear masks in stores... yet hundreds of people come and go in
a single day, so the opportunity for someone with infection to be spreading
virus exists... yet, I've seen NOTHING that addresses the cleaning of air
handlers in stores..

Example, Legionnaires Disease... source vector. the air handlers...

Covid 19 has so many unknowns and unaddressed issues... I see multiple bad
management issues.. from local to national...

Anyone seen anything address the inside air quality vector?

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 7:14 AM Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I only wear N95 into stores. I wear cloth when out and about outside where
> masks have been mandated by local authorities or else.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 7, 2020, at 9:54 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > 
> https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/07/07/1004841/a-group-of-239-scientists-say-theres-growing-evidence-covid-19-is-airborne/
> >
> >
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

Yeah. Younger people die less from this.

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020, 7:16 AM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> You don’t hear about this on the news. Actually last night I did. Fauci
> was saying don’t be fooled by the drop in the death count. It means
> nothing.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 8, 2020, at 12:17 AM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > Even so, COVID deaths are dropping like a stone:
> https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm
> >
> > NY and NJ quarantines are pretty funny when you compare NY/NJ deaths to
> the states they want to quarantine.
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
> >> Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2020 7:49 PM
> >> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> >> Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
> >> Subject: Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a
> world
> >> scandal
> >>
> >> Except the number of deaths is highly inflated. You get shot, tested
> positive for
> >> covid and die, your death is reported as a covid death. Heart attack?
> Same
> >> thing. This is the guidelines they have to follow from the cdc, or so
> has been
> >> reported in the media.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
>  On Jul 7, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Curt Raymond 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> A flu season that killed 150,000 people? Thats 5 times normal in 5
> months.
> >> Oh and its not done yet, flu season got over with, the US is losing
> 1/30th of a
> >> flu season to COVID every day...
> >>>
> >>> -Curt
> >>>
> >>> On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 6:22:37 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
> >>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> If we never heard a word out of the media about covid I suspect we
> >>> would have just thought this was a bad cold and flu season.  In other
> >>> words, normal common sense would be to be good with hand washing,
> >>> covering your mouth when coughing, and stay home if you are sick.
> >>>
> >>> On 7/7/2020 5:16 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes wrote:
>  Curt, can you cite any peer reviewed study that indicates how much the
> >> risk is reduced by the general population wearing masks?  Sure, masks
> (and
> >> gloves and gowns) all work in a hospital setting to provide a good risk
> >> reduction for the imposed cost.  Don't forget the training for those
> workers.
> >> Got it, that's fine, no argument.  I don't live in a hospital, don't
> work in one,
> >> please don't cite a study about hospitals.
> 
>  Let's follow the science.  Where's the study?  "Experts say" doesn't
> cut it
> >> anymore, the so-called experts contradict themselves, especially on this
> >> question of masks.
> 
>  Jul 7, 2020 2:03:18 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes
> >> :
> 
> > Yeahbut the problem is that my wearing a mask protects YOU. Your not
> >> wearing a mask increases MY risk...
> > So I'm polite enough to protect you from the germs I might be
> carrying
> >> but you can't be bothered to do the same. Thats brotherhood for you.
> > -Curt
> >
> > On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 1:44:59 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via
> > Mercedes
>  Max Dillon
>  Charleston SC
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

My friend Magnus is a doctor there. They have taken more measures than they
are given credit for. Very little to suggest they had less economic impact,
and they definitely had more death than their neighbors. Not like we are in
any position to criticise.

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020, 12:09 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> A friend’s sister lives there and says the opposite.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 7, 2020, at 1:04 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >  Lets add Sweden into the mix, minimal lockdown, much higher infection
> and death rate. A death rate even higher than ours in fact...
> > -Curt
> >
> >On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 1:54:21 PM EDT, Max Dillon via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > By that logic, we need to either (a) close down our borders and pretend
> like we are an island or (b) institute a strong authoritarian central
> government and eliminate all liberty (china) or (c) look at one outlier,
> Germany, and pretend like all those other countries and US states that
> didn't lock down, pretend they don't exist.  They don't count because
> Germany.
> >
> > Max Dillon
> > Charleston SC
> >
> > Jul 7, 2020 11:26:12 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>:
> >
> >> Except for New Zealand and Iceland, which were largely spared.  Also
> >> Germany.  The problem is that people act like idiots once restrictions
> are
> >> loosened.
> >>
> >>> On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 6:25 PM Craig via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/28/lack-evidence-lockdowns-actually-worked-world-scandal/
> >>>
> >>> There is still not a shred of real proof that the planet's reckless
> >>> stay-at-home experiment made any difference
> >>>
> >>> Craig
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>>
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

When public health measures work, nothing happens. Thets the nature of
prevention. No one has done a study to give you the evidence you seek, for
a variety of practical reasons such as being in the middle of a pandemic.
But there is an awful lot of emipric evidence pointing in the direction
that masks reduce transmission.

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020, 11:52 AM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> How many people did not get the virus due to wearing a mask? What about
> the number of people who did get the virus while wearing a mask? Has
> anybody heard numbers about this?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 7, 2020, at 12:47 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >  If that's true why don't surgeons drop in their tracks? How can they
> go through complex, long operations all while wearing a mask?
> > I find the dual arguments particularly funny:#1. The mask isn't fine
> enough and can't possibly be doing any goodand#2. The mask blocks so much
> air that its killing you with CO2.
> > O2/CO2 is much smaller than a virus, if a virus can pass through the
> mask easily then air ought to also...
> > -Curt
> >
> >On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 1:38:40 PM EDT, Craig via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 7 Jul 2020 13:17:51 -0400 Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >> I don't understand any possible downside from wearing a mask when
> >> venturing outside and mingling with other people.
> >
> > Masks cause the level of CO2 you breathe to increase, which causes the
> > level of CO2 in your blood to increase, which causes your immune system
> > activity to decrease.
> >
> >
> > Craig
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

I'm not wearing it to protect me. I'm wearing it to protect you.

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020, 11:45 AM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Then by all means wear a mask. That is the beauty of this country. If it
> makes you feel better, wear it. Those that do not want to wear a mask,
> don’t. Pretty simple. If you are scared of all the people not wearing a
> mask, wear 2 masks or stay at home.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 7, 2020, at 12:40 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > That article sucks, as it its poorly written without a clear reason to
> exist.
> >
> > What it says, if you read it a couple times and dig through all the
> extra words, is that wearing a mask when there isn't a pandemic scares
> people. If you dig around a bit you find "concluded that the surgical mask
> was noninferior to the N95 mask in terms of influenza transmission rates
> among health care workers."
> >
> > Which says, straight up, that a mask reduces transmission rates.
> >
> > The O2/CO2 levels debate is just people spewing nonsense due to not
> wanting to wear a mask, its been dis-proven time and time again. You can
> find plenty of evidence of people going for a run with a mask on and not
> having lowered O2 or elevated CO2. To say otherwise ignores a growing
> mountain of evidence.
> >
> > -Curt
> >
> > On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 1:26:59 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Lower o2 levels, higher co2 levels, mask catches all sorts of
> contamination that you constantly breath in when putting dirty masks back
> on. Here is an article I found from several years ago.
> >
> > https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4868614/
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Jul 7, 2020, at 12:18 PM, Andrew Strasfogel 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > I don't understand any possible downside from wearing a mask when
> venturing outside and mingling with other people.
> > >
> > >> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:57 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >> The first mention of politics on this was just brought up by you. It
> has nothing to do with politics. It has to do with facts and common sense.
> If you want to wear a mask or never leave the house, fine. Otherwise there
> is so much misinformation about wearing masks or not, locking or not has
> done any good. The numbers are not accurate and can’t be trusted. One thing
> is certain the economy has been destroyed. Next week I will be flying again
> and I am not the least bit concerned.
> > >>
> > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>
> > >> > On Jul 7, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > We lived in fear of leaving the house here in NJ and look at our
> numbers
> > >> > and the rest of the New York Cory area... lock down has been very
> > >> > successful.  Saying otherwise is ignoring scientifically proven
> facts for
> > >> > political agenda.  If we have a chance of fighting this, we all
> need to
> > >> > change our behaviors and learn to respect the science behind the
> > >> > recommendations.
> > >> >
> > >> > If you don’t wear a mask, you shouldn’t be out in public around
> other
> > >> > people, period.  And the federal government needs to step up and
> make this
> > >> > statement.
> > >> >
> > >> > I honestly can’t believe this is even a point to argue and
> discuss... you
> > >> > guys are very clouded by what you read and hear with strong
> political
> > >> > bias.  Forget all the noise and just get back to the basic fact
> that this
> > >> > is a respiratory disease people die from.  And wearing a mask and
> avoid
> > >> > others reduces its spread.  It’s very simple.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:10 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> > >> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> We can’t live in fear and afraid to leave the house. What is
> becoming
> > >> >> apparent is this virus is not nearly as deadly or as big of a deal
> as they
> > >> >> made it out to be. There are lots more people testing positive
> because we
> > >> >> are doing a lot more test. The death rate is going down because
> many people
> > >> >> have had it and never knew it, and it did not kill them.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Sent from my iPhone
> > >> >>
> > >> >>> On Jul 7, 2020, at 10:45 AM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
> > >> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> New Zealand, Australia, China (especially China), Italy, Germany,
> > >> >> Greece, Spain all had good luck with initial lockdowns.  Big
> economic hit,
> > >> >> but far less severe than a health system collapse and a real
> rather than
> > >> >> induced economic downturn.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> The problem is that far too many people think getting the case
> load down
> > >> >> to manageable means they don't need to keep practicing all the
> things that
> > >> >> got it down in the first place.
> > >> >>>

Re: [MBZ] Poos is needed on 124 Fakebook

2020-07-08 Thread Rick Knoble via Mercedes

What are good troubleshooting and diagnostic manuals for KE Jetronic injection?

Rick

From: Mercedes  on behalf of Dan Penoff via 
Mercedes 
Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2020, 6:59 AM
To: Okie Benz
Cc: Dan Penoff
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Poos is needed on 124 Fakebook

I suspect the seal on the plunger of the fuel distributor is leaking, a common 
failure due to age and wear. But I’m not telling him. He’s clearly an idiot, as 
he’s done nothing in the way of logical troubleshooting.

-D

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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

Kaleb, I agree that this epidemic has been disruptive to the economy. But
the economic pain will be far greater if the epidemic continues to affect
the US disproportionately to other countries.

The article is good. But it makes no mention of CO2 or O2. This is because
all that gas exchange concern is complete crap designed to make people
afraid of masks. Don't listen to it. Something like a billion people are
wearing them and somehow surviving just fine. This is common sense. I wear
one all day every day. The article describes lack of evidence for mask
effectiveness for influenza, which believe it or not acts differently from
this virus because it is less often asymptomatic/minimally symptomatic and
it is not shed in high quantities early in the illness before severe
symptoms develop. I actually had this discussion with our head of hospital
epi at the beginning of the epidemic, and he came at me with the lack of
evidence for public wearing the mask. Not to repeat myself, but sometimes
you have to make policy on less than watertight evidence. And the evidence
for mask effectiveness is stronger for this disease, partly as a result of
the disease and partly as a result of us devoting more resources to
answering this question.

You have nothing to lose by wearing a mask, except the mask cost and slight
inconvenience of adjusting behavior.

Flying is a lot lower risk now that no one is doing it. Incidentally the
original airliners were 100% fresh cabin air from the vents, but my dad
told me yesterday that they were pulling too much power from the turbine
compressors so they reduced it to the current 50% back in the 60/70s. The
other problem is that the vents blow down and mix the warm air rising from
the humans below. That will require redesign of aircraft even though the
vent air is hepa  filtered. Problem is recirculation of the air in the
cabin; lots of it is not filtered at all.

You cannot just reject the curve numbers. Locking down definitely slowed
transmission in Los Angeles. Our curve flattened with lockdown, then
started rising again three weeks after reopening began, specifically 3
weeks after Memorial Day weekend. I agree lockdowns are unprecedented and
that there was therefore no evidence that they work, but consider there is
no evidence that parachutes save skydivers either. Kind of hard to find
controls for that study.

You are right that for a majority of people this is a mild illness. That
does not mean you will be in that majority, or people that you love, or
even people in your church if you go to one. We still do not understand all
the reasons for this. Certainly age, obesity and gender are risk factors.
But they do not explain the otherwise healthy 41 year olds being
hospitalized for 6 weeks. Not a majority, but it is happening. And we have
lots of elderly and diabetic people in the nation, and people on
immunosuppressive drugs for rheumatoid arthritis, psoriasis, organ
transplantattion etc. Kind of cynical to tell them good luck but not do
anything to help them reduce their risk of getting sick.

Controlling this thing is not a very big deal economically or personally.
NOT controlling it will be very costly to the economy over a long period of
time. Decide which version of america you want to live in for the next year
or two, and act accordingly. I would submit that hope is not a strategy,
and that the beatings the virus is giving us will continue until morale
improves.

PS I found a used 2.88 diff on ebay. There were two of them, one 400
dollars but it was already sent to the crusher, and one 499 a guy had in
huntington beach. Reinvent has one but they want the typical 700 dollar
fortune for it.

One can play the "Youth is on my side and too bad for you" game, but that
is sort of a bad attitude IMHO. Do unto others etc.

Karl

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020, 11:27 AM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Lower o2 levels, higher co2 levels, mask catches all sorts of
> contamination that you constantly breath in when putting dirty masks back
> on. Here is an article I found from several years ago.
>
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4868614/
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 7, 2020, at 12:18 PM, Andrew Strasfogel 
> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > I don't understand any possible downside from wearing a mask when
> venturing outside and mingling with other people.
> >
> >> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:57 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >> The first mention of politics on this was just brought up by you. It
> has nothing to do with politics. It has to do with facts and common sense.
> If you want to wear a mask or never leave the house, fine. Otherwise there
> is so much misinformation about wearing masks or not, locking or not has
> done any good. The numbers are not accurate and can’t be trusted. One thing
> is certain the economy has been destroyed. Next week I will be flying again
> and I am not the least bit concerned.
> >>
> >> Sen

Re: [MBZ] West Texas Doctor Says Asthma Drug Budesonide Is 'Silver Bullet' for COVID-19

2020-07-08 Thread Rick Knoble via Mercedes

Max says:

>  If we can lockdown and destroy the economy to "save lives"

I suspect because of Federal government interference in the cycle of things 
($600 a week Federal bonus for the unemployed), most folks don't understand 
that the economy has been utterly and absolutely decimated.

Rick



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[MBZ] $5 pressure washer hose

Stanley 30' hose, clearance $5
https://brickseek.com/walmart-inventory-checker?sku=729849371

201pc black chrome socket set, $21
https://brickseek.com/walmart-inventory-checker?sku=618460284

123pc $15
https://brickseek.com/walmart-inventory-checker?sku=516143432

70pc $9 (rare)
https://brickseek.com/walmart-inventory-checker?sku=310666129

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Re: [MBZ] West Texas Doctor Says Asthma Drug Budesonide Is 'Silver Bullet' for COVID-19

Correct Mitch, sharing information about drugs that may work is a good
thing.  If we can lockdown and destroy the economy to "save lives", we
certainly can and should share information about potential treatments that
may save lives.  If we can mandate mask wearing by force of law, we can
also take the time to study and explore viable treatment options.
-
Max
Charleston SC


On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 9:42 AM Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> On Wed, July 8, 2020 9:24 am, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
> > "Magic beans" We could rephrase the headline to "People who were going to
> > recover anyway seem to recover well when treated." Without any kind of
> > scientific study there's no way to know the drug is doing anything.
>
> Basically true, but until those results are in, medical professionals have
> to go with what works in their experience. I recall a speech by a Texas
> MD, back when the news media and certain Dem governors were telling us
> that taking malaria meds was dangerous and not helpful, apparently because
> the president mentioned it favorably. Her claim was that she'd prescribe
> it to patients and within 24-48 hours their symptoms would show
> significant improvement, and had not been seeing such improvement before
> she started prescribing it.
>
> If inhaled steroids reduce lung inflammation, it would not be surprising
> to find that they reduce lung inflammation caused by COVID. After all,
> COVID doesn't damage your lungs, your immune response to COVID damages
> your lungs.
>
> Generally speaking, untreated patients don't magically recover when first
> diagnosed, if you're really sick you'll stay that way for 2-4 weeks and
> still not be in good shape at the end of a month (my sister was virtually
> bedridden for 3 weeks, and very weak at week 5, I think she's still not
> back to work more than a month after her 'recovery'). I should try to find
> out what if any medication she took for it and when she received it. I
> remember the general instructions were 'if you can't breathe, call an
> ambulance, otherwise, you're under quarantine until symptoms subside'.
> When finally deemed safe to take a bus to the hospital, she was negative
> on the COVID test, positive on the antibody test.
>
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Re: [MBZ] So basically it is airborne and anything less than a N95 is a waste of time?

2020-07-08 Thread Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes

I only wear N95 into stores. I wear cloth when out and about outside where 
masks have been mandated by local authorities or else.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2020, at 9:54 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/07/07/1004841/a-group-of-239-scientists-say-theres-growing-evidence-covid-19-is-airborne/
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

Yep, pretty soon maybe even a cold will kill you. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 8, 2020, at 8:52 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
>  I'm not sure how I feel about the idea of my immune system atrophying at 
> home, I mean there are still germs at home. Especially if I dig in the 
> compost or the garden (which is full of compost) a little...
> -Curt
> 
>On Wednesday, July 8, 2020, 9:46:48 AM EDT, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
>  wrote:  
> 
>> On Wed, July 8, 2020 9:29 am, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
>> I'm guessing that the people that
>> die are clean fanatics and haven't challenged their immune systems with
>> good old commonplace germs.
> 
> A valid point.
> I got one of my older friends, one who believes we need to stay at home
> and wait for a vaccine, quite angry by suggesting that after a couple
> months of following his suggestions my immune system would be severely
> atrophied.
> 
> Mitch.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] So basically it is airborne and anything less than a N95 is a waste of time?

 "Every country THAT HAS MANAGED to reduce covid" 

-Curt

On Wednesday, July 8, 2020, 9:49:41 AM EDT, Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Every country?  Come on Karl, I have to throw the flag on that one.
-
Max
Charleston SC


On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 9:33 AM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Every country that has managed to reduce covid to bearable levels has a
> mandatory masking policy in place, including many whose outbreaks were
> small in large part because they put the policy in place as soon as their
> first cases occurred. Cloth is not as good as spun polyethylene or
> propylene or whatever plastic is used in surgical masks. But cloth is still
> effective.
>
> On Wed, Jul 8, 2020, 7:13 AM Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

 I'm not sure how I feel about the idea of my immune system atrophying at home, 
I mean there are still germs at home. Especially if I dig in the compost or the 
garden (which is full of compost) a little...
-Curt

On Wednesday, July 8, 2020, 9:46:48 AM EDT, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 On Wed, July 8, 2020 9:29 am, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
> I'm guessing that the people that
> die are clean fanatics and haven't challenged their immune systems with
> good old commonplace germs.

A valid point.
I got one of my older friends, one who believes we need to stay at home
and wait for a vaccine, quite angry by suggesting that after a couple
months of following his suggestions my immune system would be severely
atrophied.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] So basically it is airborne and anything less than a N95 is a waste of time?

 But remember you're breathing, the virus is on the water vapor coming out of 
your mouth. The more you breathe the more water vapor clings to your mask and 
traps more virus.
I have learned something about not touching my mask from all this talk. I also 
treat my hands with oil of malaluca (tea tree) and get some of that on the dry 
mask. Its a natural antiseptic, I've been using it on cuts for years. As a 
bonus it smells nice and feels cooling.
-Curt

On Wednesday, July 8, 2020, 9:45:30 AM EDT, Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
 wrote:  

 Read it again Curt, it says the particles are so small (1-2 microns) that
they remain airborne, which means they flow with the air right through and
around the surgical mask.

https://blogs.cdc.gov/niosh-science-blog/2017/07/06/elastomerics/

" Surgical masks are *not* respirators. They are disposable coverings
designed to be loose-fitting over the user’s nose and mouth. These
loose-fitting masks leave gaps between the mask and the wearer’s face
through which harmful particles may pass. Since the Food and Drug
Administration (FDA) does not address the fit function of masks and
surgical masks are not NIOSH approved, the mask may not be used in
situations covered by Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA)
within areas requiring the use of respiratory protection. Therefore
surgical masks should never be used for protection against infectious
aerosolized particles."

My advice: Wash your hands / use sanitizer often, stay away from those
coughing and sneezing, talk with your doc in advance about treatment
options beforehand (hydroxychloroquine, budesonide, etc) so you have an
idea of what to do if you feel ill or know you are exposed.  If some other
ritual makes you feel safe (I'll be carrying my firearm of choice and
riding in a very safe car, a Mercedes-Benz) then go for it.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 9:05 AM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>  Actually it means exactly the opposite, that everyone could help slow
> transmission by wearing masks. Remember the mask catches that which you
> expel.
> Still though, I take all these things with more than a few grains of salt.
> We've seen so many magic realizations that have then turned out to be wrong
> its not really worth paying attention, you just drive yourself crazy.
> -Curt
>
>    On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 9:54:38 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>
> https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/07/07/1004841/a-group-of-239-scientists-say-theres-growing-evidence-covid-19-is-airborne/
>
>
> ___
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] So basically it is airborne and anything less than a N95 is a waste of time?

Every country?  Come on Karl, I have to throw the flag on that one.
-
Max
Charleston SC


On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 9:33 AM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Every country that has managed to reduce covid to bearable levels has a
> mandatory masking policy in place, including many whose outbreaks were
> small in large part because they put the policy in place as soon as their
> first cases occurred. Cloth is not as good as spun polyethylene or
> propylene or whatever plastic is used in surgical masks. But cloth is still
> effective.
>
> On Wed, Jul 8, 2020, 7:13 AM Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

On Wed, July 8, 2020 9:29 am, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
> I'm guessing that the people that
> die are clean fanatics and haven't challenged their immune systems with
> good old commonplace germs.

A valid point.
I got one of my older friends, one who believes we need to stay at home
and wait for a vaccine, quite angry by suggesting that after a couple
months of following his suggestions my immune system would be severely
atrophied.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] So basically it is airborne and anything less than a N95 is a waste of time?

Read it again Curt, it says the particles are so small (1-2 microns) that
they remain airborne, which means they flow with the air right through and
around the surgical mask.

https://blogs.cdc.gov/niosh-science-blog/2017/07/06/elastomerics/

" Surgical masks are *not* respirators. They are disposable coverings
designed to be loose-fitting over the user’s nose and mouth. These
loose-fitting masks leave gaps between the mask and the wearer’s face
through which harmful particles may pass. Since the Food and Drug
Administration (FDA) does not address the fit function of masks and
surgical masks are not NIOSH approved, the mask may not be used in
situations covered by Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA)
within areas requiring the use of respiratory protection. Therefore
surgical masks should never be used for protection against infectious
aerosolized particles."

My advice: Wash your hands / use sanitizer often, stay away from those
coughing and sneezing, talk with your doc in advance about treatment
options beforehand (hydroxychloroquine, budesonide, etc) so you have an
idea of what to do if you feel ill or know you are exposed.  If some other
ritual makes you feel safe (I'll be carrying my firearm of choice and
riding in a very safe car, a Mercedes-Benz) then go for it.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 9:05 AM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>  Actually it means exactly the opposite, that everyone could help slow
> transmission by wearing masks. Remember the mask catches that which you
> expel.
> Still though, I take all these things with more than a few grains of salt.
> We've seen so many magic realizations that have then turned out to be wrong
> its not really worth paying attention, you just drive yourself crazy.
> -Curt
>
> On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 9:54:38 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>
> https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/07/07/1004841/a-group-of-239-scientists-say-theres-growing-evidence-covid-19-is-airborne/
>
>
> ___
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] West Texas Doctor Says Asthma Drug Budesonide Is 'Silver Bullet' for COVID-19

On Wed, July 8, 2020 9:24 am, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
> "Magic beans" We could rephrase the headline to "People who were going to
> recover anyway seem to recover well when treated." Without any kind of
> scientific study there's no way to know the drug is doing anything.

Basically true, but until those results are in, medical professionals have
to go with what works in their experience. I recall a speech by a Texas
MD, back when the news media and certain Dem governors were telling us
that taking malaria meds was dangerous and not helpful, apparently because
the president mentioned it favorably. Her claim was that she'd prescribe
it to patients and within 24-48 hours their symptoms would show
significant improvement, and had not been seeing such improvement before
she started prescribing it.

If inhaled steroids reduce lung inflammation, it would not be surprising
to find that they reduce lung inflammation caused by COVID. After all,
COVID doesn't damage your lungs, your immune response to COVID damages
your lungs.

Generally speaking, untreated patients don't magically recover when first
diagnosed, if you're really sick you'll stay that way for 2-4 weeks and
still not be in good shape at the end of a month (my sister was virtually
bedridden for 3 weeks, and very weak at week 5, I think she's still not
back to work more than a month after her 'recovery'). I should try to find
out what if any medication she took for it and when she received it. I
remember the general instructions were 'if you can't breathe, call an
ambulance, otherwise, you're under quarantine until symptoms subside'.
When finally deemed safe to take a bus to the hospital, she was negative
on the COVID test, positive on the antibody test.

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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

 I'd walk out on a Dr that was that level of dumb.
-Curt

On Wednesday, July 8, 2020, 9:27:21 AM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Many or most people around here that are wearing masks have them around their 
chin. At my last Dr appointment even the Dr was doing that. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 8, 2020, at 8:12 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> So I'll ask one more time.  Where's the study?  Where's the science?  Sure,
> we all know that wearing a mask when working in a hospital setting is
> valid, but that is part of an ensemble of protective equipment in a
> controlled setting.  Sure, when one is sick, wearing a mask to catch the
> droplets when you cough or sneeze is valid.  No argument there.
> 
> It seems like the only thing that is driving the mask thing is fear.  Plain
> raw fear.  That and the desire to impose control on your fellow man.
> 
> For the record, I do wear a mask when I go into a store.  I notice a fair
> percentage of people here wear the mask below their nose, so only the mouth
> is covered,
> 
> Hand sanitizer and hand washing are far more effective, in my opinion.
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 8:02 PM OK Don via Mercedes 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> EXACTLY 
>> 
>> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 1:03 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Yeahbut the problem is that my wearing a mask protects YOU. Your not
>>> wearing a mask increases MY risk...
>>> So I'm polite enough to protect you from the germs I might be carrying
>> but
>>> you can't be bothered to do the same. Thats brotherhood for you.
>>> -Curt
>>> 
>>> --
>> OK Don
>> 
>> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
>> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>> 
>> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
>> Wernher
>> Von Braun
>> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
>> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
>> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] So basically it is airborne and anything less than a N95 is a waste of time?

 The virus is too small to catch, your snotballs and other assorted moisture on 
which the virus is carried are not. We reduce transmission by keeping the 
radius of your breath closer to you.
-Curt

On Wednesday, July 8, 2020, 9:13:50 AM EDT, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
 wrote:  

 On Wed, July 8, 2020 9:04 am, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
> Actually it means exactly the opposite, that everyone could help slow
> transmission by wearing masks. Remember the mask catches that which you
> expel.

They're saying it's too small for anything short of an N95 to catch, so
saying that means the mask catches it makes no sense at all. What the mask
would be doing in that case is slowing the air current and reducing the
range of your virulence.

Exhaling through your nose and not facing people while you talk would
probably do most of that without the mask. Strangers I've observed in
public don't seem to have figured that out on their own. Wanna be polite?
Don't talk to me.

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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

 100 years of practice isn't good enough for you?
Where is the study that says the opposite? The challenger must provide proof.
-Curt

On Wednesday, July 8, 2020, 9:12:56 AM EDT, Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 So I'll ask one more time.  Where's the study?  Where's the science?  Sure,
we all know that wearing a mask when working in a hospital setting is
valid, but that is part of an ensemble of protective equipment in a
controlled setting.  Sure, when one is sick, wearing a mask to catch the
droplets when you cough or sneeze is valid.  No argument there.

It seems like the only thing that is driving the mask thing is fear.  Plain
raw fear.  That and the desire to impose control on your fellow man.

For the record, I do wear a mask when I go into a store.  I notice a fair
percentage of people here wear the mask below their nose, so only the mouth
is covered,

Hand sanitizer and hand washing are far more effective, in my opinion.
-
Max
Charleston SC


On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 8:02 PM OK Don via Mercedes 
wrote:

> EXACTLY 
>
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 1:03 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> >  Yeahbut the problem is that my wearing a mask protects YOU. Your not
> > wearing a mask increases MY risk...
> > So I'm polite enough to protect you from the germs I might be carrying
> but
> > you can't be bothered to do the same. Thats brotherhood for you.
> > -Curt
> >
> > --
> OK Don
>
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>
> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
> Wernher
> Von Braun
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

 I've read that both ways. The truth is nobody knows, ask again next year...
-Curt

On Wednesday, July 8, 2020, 8:32:40 AM EDT, tyee165 via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 I am sure I have read that testing is showing that the antibodies produced by 
those who have had covid only last a few weeks so you lose immunity quickly and 
can get it again.Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
 Original message From: Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
 Date: 2020-07-07  23:53  (GMT-06:00) To: 'Mercedes 
Discussion List'  Cc: Scott Ritchey 
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns 
actually worked is a world
  scandal Actually yes and no.  Yes for sick, old folks who are likely to die 
from this bug.  No for young heathy folks who are likely to have minor or no 
symptoms.  The correct strategy is for the young/healthy folks to become 
infected as fast as possible as long as hospitals can handle the more extreme 
cases.  Just my opinion.> -Original Message-> From:  Kaleb Striplin via 
Mercedes> > Some say yes. Some say no.> > Sent from my 
iPhone___http://www.okiebenz.comTo search 
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Re: [MBZ] So basically it is airborne and anything less than a N95 is a waste of time?

Every country that has managed to reduce covid to bearable levels has a
mandatory masking policy in place, including many whose outbreaks were
small in large part because they put the policy in place as soon as their
first cases occurred. Cloth is not as good as spun polyethylene or
propylene or whatever plastic is used in surgical masks. But cloth is still
effective.

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020, 7:13 AM Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
wrote:

> On Wed, July 8, 2020 9:04 am, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
> > Actually it means exactly the opposite, that everyone could help slow
> > transmission by wearing masks. Remember the mask catches that which you
> > expel.
>
> They're saying it's too small for anything short of an N95 to catch, so
> saying that means the mask catches it makes no sense at all. What the mask
> would be doing in that case is slowing the air current and reducing the
> range of your virulence.
>
> Exhaling through your nose and not facing people while you talk would
> probably do most of that without the mask. Strangers I've observed in
> public don't seem to have figured that out on their own. Wanna be polite?
> Don't talk to me.
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

 The problem is that a non-zero number of "young healthy folks" are dying right 
along with the old folks. So purposeful infection will kill off a number of 
otherwise useful, prime age people.
I'm not terribly worried about COVID and I expect that at some point I'll 
probably get it, but I'm not going out of my way to hurry into it.
In the aftermath it'll be very interesting to see why some young and otherwise 
healthy people die when some older, apparently compromised folks live through 
it. My guess, right now anyway, is one of over-cleaning. I'm guessing that the 
people that die are clean fanatics and haven't challenged their immune systems 
with good old commonplace germs.So in the meantime I'm inoculating myself by 
getting dirty. 2 days in a row I've marched up Priest Brook 
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Priest+Brook/@42.6769471,-72.1244889,14.29z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x89e1678cc12660b3:0x3d6bbf8bdd57026f!8m2!3d42.6907408!4d-72.1198057looking
 for trout. Its hell on my shins but 2 days ago I brought home a dandy brook 
trout. About 1 pound dressed, I coated it in olive oil and wrapped in tin foil, 
then tossed it on the grill for 6 minutes. It was real nice on crackers...
-Curt

On Wednesday, July 8, 2020, 12:53:51 AM EDT, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Actually yes and no.  Yes for sick, old folks who are likely to die from this 
bug.  No for young heathy folks who are likely to have minor or no symptoms.  
The correct strategy is for the young/healthy folks to become infected as fast 
as possible as long as hospitals can handle the more extreme cases.  Just my 
opinion.

> -Original Message-
> From:  Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
> 
> Some say yes. Some say no.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone


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Re: [MBZ] Poos is needed on 124 Fakebook

3. You are not running a “business” charging people to work on their cars. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 8, 2020, at 8:26 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Which is fine, assuming:
> 1. You don't hold yourself out as an expert for pay.
> 2. You seek and accept advice from those who do have a clue.
> 
> 
>> On Wed, July 8, 2020 9:23 am, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>> He has absolutely no clue what he is doing.
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] So basically it is airborne and anything less than a N95 is a waste of time?

The question is not so much whether it spreads as an aerosol. We had 120
people from a single bar in Mankato test positive shortly after they
reopened. We had about a hundred people infected in South Korean dance
classes. 60 of 80 people from a single choir rehearsal in Washington state.
It definitely can hang around in the air indoors and it can be transmitted
that way if the viral concentration in air is high enough, i e. If
ventilation/air exchange is not high.

The question is how often this occurs. I would say even once is plenty of
evidence, but the who is dragging its feet. Again a case of what to do when
you don't have super high quality evidence (no randomized blinded studies)
but the facts on the ground are empirically telling you something. Policy
does not always have the luxury of waiting for high quality evidence.
Sometimes you have to act on whatever evidence you have available because
you are overtaken by events (like 130,000 people dying and the global
airline industry being shut down nearly completely and Europe closong its
borders to US citizens).

Anyway at this point anyone is going to be hard pressed to say it is NOT
transmitted through the air in confined spaces across relatively large
distances. WHO just doesnt want to say that, because it has huge
ramifications for building and commercial aircraft redesign, among other
things, that will take time and lots of money to implement, which means
continued economic misery for lots of sectors of the economy. Compared to
that, wearing masks is starting to look attractive, so major retailers are
now asking the feds to issue national policy guidance to require them in
stores, mainly to avoid employees having to fight with customers about it
and encourage compliance.

The surgical masks will still slow transmission from infected people. N95
also, but not the ones with exhaust valves. Something like 20-40% of people
develop only minor symptoms, so pretty much everyone has to wear one to
slow transmission enough to contain the epidemic and let it die down to
manageable levels. It isnt asking very much. Relatively few people here in
South Dakota are wearing one, but I expect that to change. The awareness of
the disease and people's perceived vulnerability to it are highly variable
across the country at the moment.

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020, 7:05 AM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>  Actually it means exactly the opposite, that everyone could help slow
> transmission by wearing masks. Remember the mask catches that which you
> expel.
> Still though, I take all these things with more than a few grains of salt.
> We've seen so many magic realizations that have then turned out to be wrong
> its not really worth paying attention, you just drive yourself crazy.
> -Curt
>
> On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 9:54:38 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>
> https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/07/07/1004841/a-group-of-239-scientists-say-theres-growing-evidence-covid-19-is-airborne/
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

Many or most people around here that are wearing masks have them around their 
chin. At my last Dr appointment even the Dr was doing that. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 8, 2020, at 8:12 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> So I'll ask one more time.  Where's the study?  Where's the science?  Sure,
> we all know that wearing a mask when working in a hospital setting is
> valid, but that is part of an ensemble of protective equipment in a
> controlled setting.  Sure, when one is sick, wearing a mask to catch the
> droplets when you cough or sneeze is valid.  No argument there.
> 
> It seems like the only thing that is driving the mask thing is fear.  Plain
> raw fear.  That and the desire to impose control on your fellow man.
> 
> For the record, I do wear a mask when I go into a store.  I notice a fair
> percentage of people here wear the mask below their nose, so only the mouth
> is covered,
> 
> Hand sanitizer and hand washing are far more effective, in my opinion.
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 8:02 PM OK Don via Mercedes 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> EXACTLY 
>> 
>> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 1:03 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Yeahbut the problem is that my wearing a mask protects YOU. Your not
>>> wearing a mask increases MY risk...
>>> So I'm polite enough to protect you from the germs I might be carrying
>> but
>>> you can't be bothered to do the same. Thats brotherhood for you.
>>> -Curt
>>> 
>>> --
>> OK Don
>> 
>> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
>> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>> 
>> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
>> Wernher
>> Von Braun
>> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
>> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
>> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Poos is needed on 124 Fakebook

Which is fine, assuming:
1. You don't hold yourself out as an expert for pay.
2. You seek and accept advice from those who do have a clue.


On Wed, July 8, 2020 9:23 am, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> He has absolutely no clue what he is doing.


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Re: [MBZ] West Texas Doctor Says Asthma Drug Budesonide Is 'Silver Bullet' for COVID-19

"Magic beans" We could rephrase the headline to "People who were going to
recover anyway seem to recover well when treated." Without any kind of
scientific study there's no way to know the drug is doing anything.
Telling people this stuff is actually the worst kind of misinformation because
they'll believe "An end to the pandemic is right around the corner." when it
isn't. You'll notice all the hope is up front in the article and the reality is
a little footnote at the end. A little footnote almost nobody reads...
-Curt

On Wednesday, July 8, 2020, 12:41:11 AM EDT, Craig via Mercedes
wrote:

West Texas Doctor Says Asthma Drug Is 'Silver Bullet' for COVID-19

https://www.newsmax.com/us/steroid-covid-19-asthma-budesonide/2020/07/06/id/975952/?ns_mail_uid=9af78cd4-7188-4875-ba2c-e930f35496ab&ns_mail_job=DM125745_07072020&s=acs&dkt_nbr=0105044l0v1b

By Sandy Fitzgerald | Monday, 06 July 2020 06:18 PM

A West Texas doctor says an inhaled steroid, budesonide, a drug commonly
used to treat asthma, is the "silver bullet" for COVID-19.

"It's an inhaled steroid that doesn't have the side effects of total body
steroids but it has the benefits," Dr. Richard Bartlett said in a recent
interview with KWES-TV in Odessa. "It's like putting out a fire at the
base of the fire. I'm having patients recover so quick."

Bartlett, an emergency room doctor for 28 years, said he has been
treating high-risk COVID-19 patients such as the elderly or those with
conditions such as heart disease and cancer, with the inhaled steroid.
COVID-19 starts off in the respiratory system but then moves on to cause
severe inflammation that leads to organ failure and death, but Bartlett
claims the steroid stops that inflammation from happening.

He said his patients with COVID-19 are prescribed budesonide, which they
inhale through a nebulizer twice daily, and they are telling him that
within one treatment they feel better. He told another news station,
Midland CBS affiliate KOSA, the earlier the patient is treated, the
better, and he's having a "100% survival rate."

"I don't even know how many I've treated ... dozens," he said. "I have
14 that I'm treating right now."

The medicine has been on the market for 25 years, and is FDA approved but
not for COVID-19. Bartlett, however, told the Odessa station that he's
never seen the medicine work so well for anything else.

"It's like this medicine was made for this pandemic," he said.

Regional health officials, however, warned there have not been enough
studies into Bartlett's claims.

"When we go look at a study," Odessa Regional Medical Center Chief
Medical Officer Rohith Saravanan told the CBS affiliate. "If they say 'oh
five cases, all solved. Magic pill. Silver bullet,' well that's not how
science works. You take thousands and thousands of patients across
multiple countries, multiple sites, you blind them, you control certain
people, certain treatments. And then you compare the groups. It's not
that he's doing something wrong. He's sharing what he found could be
useful to the scientific community."

Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Poos is needed on 124 Fakebook

He has absolutely no clue what he is doing. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 8, 2020, at 6:59 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I suspect the seal on the plunger of the fuel distributor is leaking, a 
> common failure due to age and wear. But I’m not telling him. He’s clearly an 
> idiot, as he’s done nothing in the way of logical troubleshooting.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Jul 7, 2020, at 11:17 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Yep
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Jul 7, 2020, at 10:09 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Is this the same shop owner from the W123 group who didn't know his heinie
>>> from a hole in the ground last year?
>>> Mitch.
>>> 
 On Tue, July 7, 2020 11:05 pm, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
 Somebody needs to ask him we thought he ran a shop and was a professional
 
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

You don’t hear about this on the news. Actually last night I did. Fauci was 
saying don’t be fooled by the drop in the death count. It means nothing. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 8, 2020, at 12:17 AM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Even so, COVID deaths are dropping like a stone:  
> https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm
> 
> NY and NJ quarantines are pretty funny when you compare NY/NJ deaths to the 
> states they want to quarantine.
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
>> Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2020 7:49 PM
>> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
>> Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world
>> scandal
>> 
>> Except the number of deaths is highly inflated. You get shot, tested 
>> positive for
>> covid and die, your death is reported as a covid death. Heart attack? Same
>> thing. This is the guidelines they have to follow from the cdc, or so has 
>> been
>> reported in the media.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Jul 7, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> A flu season that killed 150,000 people? Thats 5 times normal in 5 months.
>> Oh and its not done yet, flu season got over with, the US is losing 1/30th 
>> of a
>> flu season to COVID every day...
>>> 
>>> -Curt
>>> 
>>> On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 6:22:37 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> If we never heard a word out of the media about covid I suspect we
>>> would have just thought this was a bad cold and flu season.  In other
>>> words, normal common sense would be to be good with hand washing,
>>> covering your mouth when coughing, and stay home if you are sick.
>>> 
>>> On 7/7/2020 5:16 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes wrote:
 Curt, can you cite any peer reviewed study that indicates how much the
>> risk is reduced by the general population wearing masks?  Sure, masks (and
>> gloves and gowns) all work in a hospital setting to provide a good risk
>> reduction for the imposed cost.  Don't forget the training for those workers.
>> Got it, that's fine, no argument.  I don't live in a hospital, don't work in 
>> one,
>> please don't cite a study about hospitals.
 
 Let's follow the science.  Where's the study?  "Experts say" doesn't cut it
>> anymore, the so-called experts contradict themselves, especially on this
>> question of masks.
 
 Jul 7, 2020 2:03:18 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes
>> :
 
> Yeahbut the problem is that my wearing a mask protects YOU. Your not
>> wearing a mask increases MY risk...
> So I'm polite enough to protect you from the germs I might be carrying
>> but you can't be bothered to do the same. Thats brotherhood for you.
> -Curt
> 
> On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 1:44:59 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via
> Mercedes
 Max Dillon
 Charleston SC
 
 
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>>> 
 
>>> 
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Re: [MBZ] So basically it is airborne and anything less than a N95 is a waste of time?

On Wed, July 8, 2020 9:04 am, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
> Actually it means exactly the opposite, that everyone could help slow
> transmission by wearing masks. Remember the mask catches that which you
> expel.

They're saying it's too small for anything short of an N95 to catch, so
saying that means the mask catches it makes no sense at all. What the mask
would be doing in that case is slowing the air current and reducing the
range of your virulence.

Exhaling through your nose and not facing people while you talk would
probably do most of that without the mask. Strangers I've observed in
public don't seem to have figured that out on their own. Wanna be polite?
Don't talk to me.

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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

So I'll ask one more time.  Where's the study?  Where's the science?  Sure,
we all know that wearing a mask when working in a hospital setting is
valid, but that is part of an ensemble of protective equipment in a
controlled setting.  Sure, when one is sick, wearing a mask to catch the
droplets when you cough or sneeze is valid.  No argument there.

It seems like the only thing that is driving the mask thing is fear.  Plain
raw fear.  That and the desire to impose control on your fellow man.

For the record, I do wear a mask when I go into a store.  I notice a fair
percentage of people here wear the mask below their nose, so only the mouth
is covered,

Hand sanitizer and hand washing are far more effective, in my opinion.
-
Max
Charleston SC

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 8:02 PM OK Don via Mercedes 
wrote:

> EXACTLY 
>
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 1:03 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> >  Yeahbut the problem is that my wearing a mask protects YOU. Your not
> > wearing a mask increases MY risk...
> > So I'm polite enough to protect you from the germs I might be carrying
> but
> > you can't be bothered to do the same. Thats brotherhood for you.
> > -Curt
> >
> > --
> OK Don
>
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>
> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
> Wernher
> Von Braun
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] West Texas Doctor Says Asthma Drug Budesonide Is 'Silver Bullet' for COVID-19

Next thing you know they will jack the price of this up or make it not 
available anymore. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2020, at 11:41 PM, Craig via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> West Texas Doctor Says Asthma Drug Is 'Silver Bullet' for COVID-19
> 
> https://www.newsmax.com/us/steroid-covid-19-asthma-budesonide/2020/07/06/id/975952/?ns_mail_uid=9af78cd4-7188-4875-ba2c-e930f35496ab&ns_mail_job=DM125745_07072020&s=acs&dkt_nbr=0105044l0v1b
> 
>By Sandy Fitzgerald | Monday, 06 July 2020 06:18 PM 
> 
> A West Texas doctor says an inhaled steroid, budesonide, a drug commonly
> used to treat asthma, is the "silver bullet" for COVID-19.
> 
> "It's an inhaled steroid that doesn't have the side effects of total body
> steroids but it has the benefits," Dr. Richard Bartlett said in a recent
> interview with KWES-TV in Odessa. "It's like putting out a fire at the
> base of the fire. I'm having patients recover so quick."
> 
> Bartlett, an emergency room doctor for 28 years, said he has been
> treating high-risk COVID-19 patients such as the elderly or those with
> conditions such as heart disease and cancer, with the inhaled steroid.
> COVID-19 starts off in the respiratory system but then moves on to cause
> severe inflammation that leads to organ failure and death, but Bartlett
> claims the steroid stops that inflammation from happening.
> 
> He said his patients with COVID-19 are prescribed budesonide, which they
> inhale through a nebulizer twice daily, and they are telling him that
> within one treatment they feel better. He told another news station,
> Midland CBS affiliate KOSA, the earlier the patient is treated, the
> better, and he's having a "100% survival rate."
> 
> "I don't even know how many I've treated ... dozens," he said. "I have
> 14 that I'm treating right now."
> 
> The medicine has been on the market for 25 years, and is FDA approved but
> not for COVID-19. Bartlett, however, told the Odessa station that he's
> never seen the medicine work so well for anything else.
> 
> "It's like this medicine was made for this pandemic," he said.
> 
> Regional health officials, however, warned there have not been enough
> studies into Bartlett's claims.
> 
> "When we go look at a study," Odessa Regional Medical Center Chief
> Medical Officer Rohith Saravanan told the CBS affiliate. "If they say 'oh
> five cases, all solved. Magic pill. Silver bullet,' well that's not how
> science works. You take thousands and thousands of patients across
> multiple countries, multiple sites, you blind them, you control certain
> people, certain treatments. And then you compare the groups. It's not
> that he's doing something wrong. He's sharing what he found could be
> useful to the scientific community."
> 
> 
> Craig
> 
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

On Wed, July 8, 2020 8:31 am, tyee165 via Mercedes wrote:
> I am sure I have read that testing is showing that the antibodies
> produced by those who have had covid only last a few weeks so you lose
> immunity quickly and can get it again.

So, let's develop a vaccine, sell it for $1k per dose, and people can buy
it monthly. Yeah, that'll work.

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Re: [MBZ] '71 Land Rover on BAT

 I had an option on a mid-'60s rover when I first graduated from high school. 
It was in really nice shape although somebody had painted it with latex house 
paint.
Its probably a good thing I didn't have any money at that age, I was good at 
finding things to buy, lousy at selling them. Actually I'm still lousy at 
selling things...
-Curt

On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 10:34:44 PM EDT, Dwight Giles via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 I had a 73 88 that i drove for several yeàrs. Spent a lot of time
converting Lucas Electrics ( Prince of Darkness) to Bosch. It would climb
anything.1

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020, 11:48 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I drove one of these daily in Fiji, often shifting sans clutch.  These are
> durable vehicles now being marketed as a posh radical chic-mobile.
>
>
> https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1971-land-rover-88-series-iia-4x4-11/?utm_source=dm&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2020-07-07
> ___
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Re: [MBZ] So basically it is airborne and anything less than a N95 is a waste of time?

 Actually it means exactly the opposite, that everyone could help slow 
transmission by wearing masks. Remember the mask catches that which you expel.
Still though, I take all these things with more than a few grains of salt. 
We've seen so many magic realizations that have then turned out to be wrong its 
not really worth paying attention, you just drive yourself crazy.
-Curt

On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 9:54:38 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 
https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/07/07/1004841/a-group-of-239-scientists-say-theres-growing-evidence-covid-19-is-airborne/


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Re: [MBZ] jackstands


The Cruze has a rather low (scrapes on some parking lot driveway
approaches unless I enter at an angle) flexible air dam, so I need ramps
just to change the oil.
About $3 a pair at Menards.
That works with the front wheels up on the concrete apron and the rear
wheels in the dirt driveway, if it was sitting flat in the garage I'd
probably need four and use them as jackstands.___
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Re: [MBZ] jackstands

On Wed, July 8, 2020 12:33 am, Craig via Mercedes wrote:

>
> I recommend the Esco 10498 jack stands as shown in the attached picture.

You're not going to have the ratchet strip out on those.
Maybe a tipover failure at the higher settings if you jerk the car around,
but never a ratchet failure.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

I noticed this guy also has a Gulfstream V who’s transponder is blocked from 
all of the flight tracking systems. I wonder what he’s hiding?

-D

> On Jul 7, 2020, at 7:51 PM, Dan Penoff  wrote:
> 
> Maybe this guy?
> 
> https://youtu.be/m2s0nB2VPvs 
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Jul 7, 2020, at 7:38 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes > > wrote:
>> 
>> Didn't some medical expert say it would go away with hot weather?
>> I had high hopes for that happening, but alas, it hasn't happened yet.
>> 
>> Mitch.
>> 
>> ___
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>> 
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> 

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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

2020-07-08 Thread tyee165 via Mercedes

I am sure I have read that testing is showing that the antibodies produced by 
those who have had covid only last a few weeks so you lose immunity quickly and 
can get it again.Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
 Original message From: Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
 Date: 2020-07-07  23:53  (GMT-06:00) To: 'Mercedes 
Discussion List'  Cc: Scott Ritchey 
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns 
actually worked is a world
  scandal Actually yes and no.  Yes for sick, old folks who are likely to die 
from this bug.  No for young heathy folks who are likely to have minor or no 
symptoms.  The correct strategy is for the young/healthy folks to become 
infected as fast as possible as long as hospitals can handle the more extreme 
cases.  Just my opinion.> -Original Message-> From:  Kaleb Striplin via 
Mercedes> > Some say yes. Some say no.> > Sent from my 
iPhone___http://www.okiebenz.comTo search 
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

2020-07-08 Thread tyee165 via Mercedes

Lies, damned lies, and statistics in that order.Who really knows what is truly 
happening?Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
 Original message From: Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
 Date: 2020-07-08  00:16  (GMT-06:00) To: 'Mercedes 
Discussion List'  Cc: Scott Ritchey 
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns 
actually worked is a world
  scandal Even so, COVID deaths are dropping like a stone:  
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htmNY and NJ quarantines are 
pretty funny when you compare NY/NJ deaths to the states they want to 
quarantine.> -Original Message-> From: Mercedes 
[mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of> Kaleb Striplin via 
Mercedes> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2020 7:49 PM> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Cc: Kaleb Striplin > Subject: Re: 
[MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world> scandal> > 
Except the number of deaths is highly inflated. You get shot, tested positive 
for> covid and die, your death is reported as a covid death. Heart attack? 
Same> thing. This is the guidelines they have to follow from the cdc, or so has 
been> reported in the media.> > Sent from my iPhone> > > On Jul 7, 2020, at 
6:35 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:> >> > > > A flu season that 
killed 150,000 people? Thats 5 times normal in 5 months.> Oh and its not done 
yet, flu season got over with, the US is losing 1/30th of a> flu season to 
COVID every day...> >> > -Curt> >> > On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 6:22:37 PM EDT, 
Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes>  wrote:> >> >> > If we 
never heard a word out of the media about covid I suspect we> > would have just 
thought this was a bad cold and flu season.  In other> > words, normal common 
sense would be to be good with hand washing,> > covering your mouth when 
coughing, and stay home if you are sick.> >> > On 7/7/2020 5:16 PM, Max Dillon 
via Mercedes wrote:> > > Curt, can you cite any peer reviewed study that 
indicates how much the> risk is reduced by the general population wearing 
masks?  Sure, masks (and> gloves and gowns) all work in a hospital setting to 
provide a good risk> reduction for the imposed cost.  Don't forget the training 
for those workers.> Got it, that's fine, no argument.  I don't live in a 
hospital, don't work in one,> please don't cite a study about hospitals.> > >> 
> > Let's follow the science.  Where's the study?  "Experts say" doesn't cut 
it> anymore, the so-called experts contradict themselves, especially on this> 
question of masks.> > >> > > Jul 7, 2020 2:03:18 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes> 
:> > >> > >> Yeahbut the problem is that my wearing a 
mask protects YOU. Your not> wearing a mask increases MY risk...> > >> So I'm 
polite enough to protect you from the germs I might be carrying> but you can't 
be bothered to do the same. Thats brotherhood for you.> > >> -Curt> > >>> > >> 
On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 1:44:59 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via> > >> Mercedes> > 
> Max Dillon> > > Charleston SC> > >> > >> > > 
___> > > http://www.okiebenz.com> > >> > > 
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Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:> > > 
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com> >> > >> >> > 
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Re: [MBZ] Poos is needed on 124 Fakebook