Re: [MBZ] 124 rear subframe

[Kevin Kraly via Mercedes]

Attaboy once again!!!
Kevin in Hillsboro, OR
2019 Sprinter 330 miles, Low Mileage Lutgard
1982 240D, High Mileage Hildegard still waiting for engine mount replacement 
time

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 1, 2020, at 4:55 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I also replaced soft the tri square axle bolts with hardened allen head 
> bolts.  No loktite. I've never had a problem with no loktite.   IMHO, loktite 
> (on MB or BMW) only causes later problems.  The bolts are good and don't come 
> out.
> 
>> OK Don via Mercedes 
>> February 1, 2020 at 6:42 PM
>> Good work!
>> I have both the 1/4" chisel and an awl - but I don
>> t think I've used the chisel for seal removal - I have used the awl as you
>> described in the past.
>> 
>> On Sat, Feb 1, 2020 at 6:19 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes <
>> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] 124 rear subframe

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

I also replaced soft the tri square axle bolts with hardened allen head 
bolts.  No loktite. I've never had a problem with no loktite.   IMHO, 
loktite (on MB or BMW) only causes later problems.  The bolts are good 
and don't come out.



OK Don via Mercedes 
February 1, 2020 at 6:42 PM
Good work!
I have both the 1/4" chisel and an awl - but I don
t think I've used the chisel for seal removal - I have used the awl as you
described in the past.

On Sat, Feb 1, 2020 at 6:19 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes <



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Re: [MBZ] 124 rear subframe

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Good work!
I have both the 1/4" chisel and an awl - but I don
t think I've used the chisel for seal removal - I have used the awl as you
described in the past.

On Sat, Feb 1, 2020 at 6:19 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> The underside of the 300D 2.5 is finally done, except for the
> calipers.   Today I put in the Diff, axles, and exhaust, checked over
> everything.   The new (rebuilt) calipers will be in sometime this week.
> New brake hoses are already on, waiting for the calipers.   YAY!   I
> figure there is about 80 hours of work done.  Most of it under the car.
>
> I may pull out the driveshaft and put in a new boot over the slip
> joint.   I have the boot, but for now, I am kinda tired if crawling
> under it.   I may wait a few months, then do the carrier mount and the
> boot. (and maybe the bearing)
>
> The pinion seal change was not bad.  The dewalt rattle rench ran the
> yoke nut off easily, I tapped the yoke off, then came the challenge. The
> seal would not budge.  I tried putting screws in it and pulling on the
> screws.   It only distorted the front face and pulled out the screws.
> I tried prying it out with the big prybar.   No dice.  I finally
> resorted to the last resort.  A awl between the Diff casting and the
> outer face of the seal.   That opened enough space to drive a
> screwdriver in.   The screwdriver pried it out with the outer rim
> deformed by the awl/screwdriver.   New seal went in easily, tapped yoke
> back on.   Started the nut, rattled it on tight, and crimped it in the
> notch.   I had been concerned about a way to hold the axle stubs for R&R
> the nut, but that was no problem.   I had put 2 bolts in each stub, 180º
> apart, with an angle iron under one bolt what it would hit the other to
> prevent turning.   Never needed that.The diff is nice and tight.
> That is good news.
>
> I used to have a little 1/4" cold chisel that was great for driving
> between the seal and a casting, turning stubborn bolts, (like axle bolts
> with too much loktite) and such.   But I think the awl technique is
> better.   I invented it since I don't have a little chisel.
>
> ___
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] 124 rear subframe

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

The underside of the 300D 2.5 is finally done, except for the 
calipers.   Today I put in the Diff, axles, and exhaust, checked over 
everything.   The new (rebuilt) calipers will be in sometime this week.  
New brake hoses are already on, waiting for the calipers.   YAY!   I 
figure there is about 80 hours of work done.  Most of it under the car.


I may pull out the driveshaft and put in a new boot over the slip 
joint.   I have the boot, but for now, I am kinda tired if crawling 
under it.   I may wait a few months, then do the carrier mount and the 
boot. (and maybe the bearing)


The pinion seal change was not bad.  The dewalt rattle rench ran the 
yoke nut off easily, I tapped the yoke off, then came the challenge. The 
seal would not budge.  I tried putting screws in it and pulling on the 
screws.   It only distorted the front face and pulled out the screws.   
I tried prying it out with the big prybar.   No dice.  I finally 
resorted to the last resort.  A awl between the Diff casting and the 
outer face of the seal.   That opened enough space to drive a 
screwdriver in.   The screwdriver pried it out with the outer rim 
deformed by the awl/screwdriver.   New seal went in easily, tapped yoke 
back on.   Started the nut, rattled it on tight, and crimped it in the 
notch.   I had been concerned about a way to hold the axle stubs for R&R 
the nut, but that was no problem.   I had put 2 bolts in each stub, 180º 
apart, with an angle iron under one bolt what it would hit the other to 
prevent turning.   Never needed that.    The diff is nice and tight.  
That is good news.


I used to have a little 1/4" cold chisel that was great for driving 
between the seal and a casting, turning stubborn bolts, (like axle bolts 
with too much loktite) and such.   But I think the awl technique is 
better.   I invented it since I don't have a little chisel.


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Re: [MBZ] 124 rear subframe

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

I'd never think of having a 124 rear subframe out and not install new 
subframe bushings.   I just took it out to Eddies and let them press the 
old out and new in.


The first time I  worked on a 124 rear suspension, it was squirrelly.  I 
replaced the bad links.   Still squirrelly.   After a while, I replaced 
all the links and the wheel carrier bushings.   Still squirrelly. Then i 
changed the subframe mounts.   what a difference!   Since then I change 
the subframe mounts, then worry about the rest.  but the other times 
I've done it one side at a time without taking the subframe out.    A 
good 124 is like riding on rails.



Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
January 29, 2020 at 7:49 AM
Bravo! Did you install new rear sub-frame bushings? How did that go?
Threaded rod and washers and socket?
-
Max
Charleston SC


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Re: [MBZ] 124 rear subframe

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Bravo!  Did you install new rear sub-frame bushings?  How did that go?
Threaded rod and washers and socket?
-
Max
Charleston SC


On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 10:14 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
>
> By the way, the rear brake lines are 18" Left, and 33 " right.   I used
> 18" and 36" premade lines.   ABS, but not limited slip.
>
> The subframe is in.  Yay!
>
> I put the assembled subframe on a heavy sheet of cardboard, then slid it
> under.
>
> I made a wood platform to hold the subframe without Diff and axles that
> would balance it on the floor jack.  It worked like a charm.  I was able
> to slide the jack under the platform under the car.   I jacked the
> subframe up and into place, making a few adjustments on the way.  The
> right side was a little higher, so I started bolts on that side first,
> then went to the left side; jacked it up a couple strokes, then started
> those bolts; checked alignment; then tightened it up.
>
> I have pictures of the subframe with the platform   It worked slick as
> snot!
>
> The LCAs have new bushings in, so those and the springs are next.  I was
> going to replace the pinion seal on the diff, so I need to make some way
> to hold the axles stubs in place so I can get the yoke off to replace
> the seal.
>
> Then the axles and diff go in.
>
> Then calipers and bleeding the brakes
> hookup emergency brake
> bolt on driveshaft
> put up the back 2/3 of the exhaust
> and it should be ready!
>
> Supposed to rain all day tomorrow, so probably nothing will happen until
> later.
> ___
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] 124 rear subframe

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

I can, or I can send them direct to those who want them.  I am aware 
Philip and others still have limited pipe size for downloads and, like 
me use ASCII for email



Craig via Mercedes 
January 28, 2020 at 10:43 PM
On Tue, 28 Jan 2020 21:13:34 -0600 Curley McLain via Mercedes

You ARE going to post those pictures, are you not?


Craig



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Re: [MBZ] 124 rear subframe

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Yes, this has turned into a lot longer, more expensive and in depth 
project than I thought.   But the end result will be a great almost like 
new 300D 2.5 that might be good and reliable for the next 20-30 years 
and quarter million miles. Since it will become primary transport for #1 
daughter, I am doing more than if I would be driving it.   Gravity 
assists in removing the subframe,  I was concerned about how to get it 
back in.   My little wood platform made all the difference in the 
world.    Karl and Max gave me some clues, and Wilton and Max helped 
with the new (used) subframe and wheel carriers.    Eddies Tar and 
Automotive helped with the press work.


I did rear rubber replacement on the 123 240D several years ago but a 
124 is completely different.  Added to that was the rusty subframe, a 
bad caliper and rustedout brake lines and a few body holes to patch.


I think the welding on the front frame mounts for the subframe turned 
out ok, and it is stronger than original, as it is built up from angle 
iron, so thicker steel.   Nowhere near a Dimitri job, but it was flux 
core wire.   After I sprayed the undercoat on,  (after grinding goobers 
off) it looks passable.


Motor mounts on a 240D are fairly easy.  just don't tighten anything 
down until all the bolts are in.   I put a 2x 4/6/8 on top of the floor 
jack under the oil pan to jack up the engine.  You can take out all the 
bolts first, but at least take out the big bolts before you start 
jacking it up.  (8mm allen socket)



OH! and if you are going to put new hard lines to the oil cooler on the 
engine, now is the time.   To replace them, you have to take the left 
motor mount off the engine.

Kevin Kraly via Mercedes 
January 28, 2020 at 10:12 PM
Attaboy! That is so nice to hear when a good, old Mercedes can be 
saved. I’ve got Hildegard up on ramps and ready to do the engine 
mounts. I’m planning to do the fan shroud replacement afterward since 
I won’t have to worry about fan blade clearance when I jack up the 
engine without the shroud in place.

Kevin in Hillsboro, OR
2019 Sprinter 330 miles, Low Mileage Lutgard AKA Der Doodlewagen
1982 240D, High Mileage Hildegard



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Re: [MBZ] 124 rear subframe

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Tue, 28 Jan 2020 21:13:34 -0600 Curley McLain via Mercedes
 wrote:

> I made a wood platform to hold the subframe without Diff and axles that 
> would balance it on the floor jack.  It worked like a charm.  I was
> able to slide the jack under the platform under the car.   I jacked the 
> subframe up and into place, making a few adjustments on the way.  The 
> right side was a little higher, so I started bolts on that side first, 
> then went to the left side; jacked it up a couple strokes, then started 
> those bolts; checked alignment; then tightened it up.
> 
> I have pictures of the subframe with the platform   It worked slick as
> snot!

You ARE going to post those pictures, are you not?


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] 124 rear subframe

[Kevin Kraly via Mercedes]

Attaboy! That is so nice to hear when a good, old Mercedes can be saved. I’ve 
got Hildegard up on ramps and ready to do the engine mounts. I’m planning to do 
the fan shroud replacement afterward since I won’t have to worry about fan 
blade clearance when I jack up the engine without the shroud in place.
Kevin in Hillsboro, OR
2019 Sprinter 330 miles, Low Mileage Lutgard AKA Der Doodlewagen
1982 240D, High Mileage Hildegard


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 28, 2020, at 7:14 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, the rear brake lines are 18" Left, and 33 " right.   I used 18" 
> and 36" premade lines.   ABS, but not limited slip.
> 
> The subframe is in.  Yay!
> 
> I put the assembled subframe on a heavy sheet of cardboard, then slid it 
> under.
> 
> I made a wood platform to hold the subframe without Diff and axles that would 
> balance it on the floor jack.  It worked like a charm.  I was able to slide 
> the jack under the platform under the car.   I jacked the subframe up and 
> into place, making a few adjustments on the way.  The right side was a little 
> higher, so I started bolts on that side first, then went to the left side; 
> jacked it up a couple strokes, then started those bolts; checked alignment; 
> then tightened it up.
> 
> I have pictures of the subframe with the platform   It worked slick as snot!
> 
> The LCAs have new bushings in, so those and the springs are next.  I was 
> going to replace the pinion seal on the diff, so I need to make some way to 
> hold the axles stubs in place so I can get the yoke off to replace the seal.
> 
> Then the axles and diff go in.
> 
> Then calipers and bleeding the brakes
> hookup emergency brake
> bolt on driveshaft
> put up the back 2/3 of the exhaust
> and it should be ready!
> 
> Supposed to rain all day tomorrow, so probably nothing will happen until 
> later.
> ___
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> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
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Re: [MBZ] 124 rear subframe

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

By the way, the rear brake lines are 18" Left, and 33 " right.   I used 
18" and 36" premade lines.   ABS, but not limited slip.


The subframe is in.  Yay!

I put the assembled subframe on a heavy sheet of cardboard, then slid it 
under.


I made a wood platform to hold the subframe without Diff and axles that 
would balance it on the floor jack.  It worked like a charm.  I was able 
to slide the jack under the platform under the car.   I jacked the 
subframe up and into place, making a few adjustments on the way.  The 
right side was a little higher, so I started bolts on that side first, 
then went to the left side; jacked it up a couple strokes, then started 
those bolts; checked alignment; then tightened it up.


I have pictures of the subframe with the platform   It worked slick as snot!

The LCAs have new bushings in, so those and the springs are next.  I was 
going to replace the pinion seal on the diff, so I need to make some way 
to hold the axles stubs in place so I can get the yoke off to replace 
the seal.


Then the axles and diff go in.

Then calipers and bleeding the brakes
hookup emergency brake
bolt on driveshaft
put up the back 2/3 of the exhaust
and it should be ready!

Supposed to rain all day tomorrow, so probably nothing will happen until 
later.

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Re: [MBZ] 124 rear subframe

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

MB or fcp has the parking brake kit with shoes and springs, etc.  You 
may have to buy the adjusters separately.  my kit had the star wheel 
half, but I just reused the originals, as they were in good shape and 
appeared to have moly lube, similar to gleitpaste on them.



Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
January 18, 2020 at 10:05 AM
Karl, what is the source for the parking brake spring kit with tool?
-
Max
Charleston SC


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Re: [MBZ] 124 rear subframe

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Or the Laser 6756 from amazon.de. just switch your country in the app. It
is 12 euros.

On Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 8:06 AM Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Karl, what is the source for the parking brake spring kit with tool?
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 10:57 AM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > The parking brake spring kit is a hollow tube with an outer flange to
> > compress the spring and a slot to catch the straight part to turn the
> > spring. T handle. It makes that job trivial. I tried with needle nose
> > pliers and succeeded on one side but never did get it done that way on
> the
> > other side. Wish I had bought the tool sooner. The e420 needs the whole
> > works also so I figured I would get some more use out of it someday.
> >
> >
> >
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Re: [MBZ] 124 rear subframe

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

The tool I bought is Baum but it is $45.

https://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts/SC/6228-08001507.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=ff&utm_content=SC&utm_campaign=PartsGeek+Google+Base&utm_term=1979-1985%2C+1987+Mercedes+300TD+Brake+Spring+Installer+Baum+Tools+79-85%2C+87+Mercedes+Brake+Spring+Installer+1984&utm_source=google&utm_medium=ff&utm_campaign=PartsGeek+Google+Basecid=6774379819&aid=79287199093&keyword=327620313351%3A%3Apla-327620313351&kid=327620313351&gclid=Cj0KCQiA9orxBRD0ARIsAK9JDxQ9XBNoXNohnQeQTQ5O7qANPRGYLJEdYeDLm5xC6DGlpEej19We1wUaAnjBEALw_wcB

On Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 8:06 AM Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Karl, what is the source for the parking brake spring kit with tool?
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 10:57 AM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > The parking brake spring kit is a hollow tube with an outer flange to
> > compress the spring and a slot to catch the straight part to turn the
> > spring. T handle. It makes that job trivial. I tried with needle nose
> > pliers and succeeded on one side but never did get it done that way on
> the
> > other side. Wish I had bought the tool sooner. The e420 needs the whole
> > works also so I figured I would get some more use out of it someday.
> >
> >
> >
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> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] 124 rear subframe

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes wrote:

I ended up with two new sets of 12 point sockets from Amazon to get it
done. One long and one short.


Double Hex or Triple Square sockets?

That was the nice thing about my 1975 Civic.
When I found out the head bolts were double hex, that was no problem, I already 
had exact fit sockets for those. Grabbed a K-Mart socket set and kept on tearing 
the engine down.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] 124 rear subframe

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Karl, what is the source for the parking brake spring kit with tool?
-
Max
Charleston SC


On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 10:57 AM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> The parking brake spring kit is a hollow tube with an outer flange to
> compress the spring and a slot to catch the straight part to turn the
> spring. T handle. It makes that job trivial. I tried with needle nose
> pliers and succeeded on one side but never did get it done that way on the
> other side. Wish I had bought the tool sooner. The e420 needs the whole
> works also so I figured I would get some more use out of it someday.
>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] 124 rear subframe

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

I ended up with two new sets of 12 point sockets from Amazon to get it
done. One long and one short.

The dodgiest part is jacking the LCA up to compress the spring. Be sure
that you are not under it if the jack tips over. It has o e too many
degrees of freedom.

The parking brake spring kit is a hollow tube with an outer flange to
compress the spring and a slot to catch the straight part to turn the
spring. T handle. It makes that job trivial. I tried with needle nose
pliers and succeeded on one side but never did get it done that way on the
other side. Wish I had bought the tool sooner. The e420 needs the whole
works also so I figured I would get some more use out of it someday.

On Fri, Jan 17, 2020, 4:47 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Good point Max.  Mine are off by about .8mm  I have a piece of tin I
> will make a washer from that is the right thickness.   That should point
> the diff in the right direction.
>
> More progress today.   I have the rear subframe mostly assembled, out
> from under the car.  It is less the LCAs, springs, axles, differential,
> and brake calipers. I decided it was a lot easier to put the parking
> brakes together up where it was easier to see things.   I turned the
> subframe upside down to put in the last spring on each side, on the
> bottom.  It is very strong and nearly impossible to get in.  But I got
> them done, them put on the discs.  I don't think there is any work left
> that is more of a pain than the parking brakes.   Monday, the lower
> control arms (LCA) are supposed to be done. (New bushings in)   By Wed,
> I am supposed to have the tool to put new boots on the axle joints.
>
> IN the meantime, I can fit the assembly to the car.  Less the LCAs,
> axles, differential and brake calipers.  All those can be put on while
> the rear subframe assembly is on the car.  Once the subframe is under
> the car, then it will start looking like a car again, not a 2 wheeled
> junker.
>
> I used my old method for the P. brake big springs.   2 wraps (loop)of 26
> or 28 ga copper wire (salvaged from a dead coil) around the spring hook,
> then pry on that to pull the spring while shoving the spring hook into
> the slot with the other hand.  I still can't see how a cluster hook can
> get the hook in behind the brake shoe
>
> I could see something like this working:
> C
> |_]   because it would have an offset to get the spring
> under the shoe.
>
> A nice thing about the kit from fcp with the 4 links for the rear
> suspension:  It has all new fasteners.  Unfortunately they are all XZN
> (triple square)  and they are bigger than the Axle bolts.  Fortunately,
> I had a socket insert for the right size.  I am going to try to find  a
> real socket for them and the axle bolts.   My expensive snappy one broke
> on the first use, and so far, I can't get snappy to replace it. (cheap
> ba$$ turds)  I have a whole pile of broken snappy stuff waiting for some
> time I can embarrass them into replacing everything.   IF HF had the
> stupid ZXN sockets, I'd buy em there.  (orsorry Dan, even at
> maynerds, if they had em)
>
>
> > Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
> > January 8, 2020 at 7:54 AM
> > Karl, Jaime: what about fine tuning the alignment of the differential,
> > once
> > you get to the point of connecting the driveshaft? IIRC, when I swapped
> > differentials on my 124 last fall, new bushings were supposed to be
> > installed with a special tool in order to get the differential aimed
> > directly at the driveshaft so the entire assembly would be straight and
> (I
> > assume) minimize flexing at the flex disc and sideways loading on the
> > bearing at the nose of the differential. I didn't have the special
> factory
> > tool, used a Mark 1 Mod 0 Eyeball and calipers, paid attention to
> > alignment
> > of the old diff and focused on getting the new diff into the same
> > position. The fore/aft depth of each bushing can affect the diff
> > alignment, if they are grossly different.
> > -
> > Max
> > Charleston SC
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
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> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> >
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Re: [MBZ] 124 rear subframe

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Good point Max.  Mine are off by about .8mm  I have a piece of tin I 
will make a washer from that is the right thickness.   That should point 
the diff in the right direction.


More progress today.   I have the rear subframe mostly assembled, out 
from under the car.  It is less the LCAs, springs, axles, differential, 
and brake calipers. I decided it was a lot easier to put the parking 
brakes together up where it was easier to see things.   I turned the 
subframe upside down to put in the last spring on each side, on the 
bottom.  It is very strong and nearly impossible to get in.  But I got 
them done, them put on the discs.  I don't think there is any work left 
that is more of a pain than the parking brakes.   Monday, the lower 
control arms (LCA) are supposed to be done. (New bushings in)   By Wed, 
I am supposed to have the tool to put new boots on the axle joints.


IN the meantime, I can fit the assembly to the car.  Less the LCAs, 
axles, differential and brake calipers.  All those can be put on while 
the rear subframe assembly is on the car.  Once the subframe is under 
the car, then it will start looking like a car again, not a 2 wheeled 
junker.


I used my old method for the P. brake big springs.   2 wraps (loop)of 26 
or 28 ga copper wire (salvaged from a dead coil) around the spring hook, 
then pry on that to pull the spring while shoving the spring hook into 
the slot with the other hand.  I still can't see how a cluster hook can 
get the hook in behind the brake shoe


I could see something like this working:
C
   |_]   because it would have an offset to get the spring 
under the shoe.


A nice thing about the kit from fcp with the 4 links for the rear 
suspension:  It has all new fasteners.  Unfortunately they are all XZN 
(triple square)  and they are bigger than the Axle bolts.  Fortunately, 
I had a socket insert for the right size.  I am going to try to find  a 
real socket for them and the axle bolts.   My expensive snappy one broke 
on the first use, and so far, I can't get snappy to replace it. (cheap 
ba$$ turds)  I have a whole pile of broken snappy stuff waiting for some 
time I can embarrass them into replacing everything.   IF HF had the 
stupid ZXN sockets, I'd buy em there.  (orsorry Dan, even at 
maynerds, if they had em)




Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
January 8, 2020 at 7:54 AM
Karl, Jaime: what about fine tuning the alignment of the differential, 
once

you get to the point of connecting the driveshaft? IIRC, when I swapped
differentials on my 124 last fall, new bushings were supposed to be
installed with a special tool in order to get the differential aimed
directly at the driveshaft so the entire assembly would be straight and (I
assume) minimize flexing at the flex disc and sideways loading on the
bearing at the nose of the differential. I didn't have the special factory
tool, used a Mark 1 Mod 0 Eyeball and calipers, paid attention to 
alignment

of the old diff and focused on getting the new diff into the same
position. The fore/aft depth of each bushing can affect the diff
alignment, if they are grossly different.
-
Max
Charleston SC




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Re: [MBZ] 124 rear subframe

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Thanks Jaime!   Good info

Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes wrote on 1/8/20 5:15 AM:

I had a discussion with my alignment guy last week about this topic.  Hes
been at it almost 40 years and specializes in european cars.  He confirmed
that the the links can be torqued down without the spring installed.  Its
important that the axle is horizontal, as stated in the workshop manual (it
doesn't state the weight of the car should be on the suspension for most of
the links).  The critical point is to have the bushing held in a position
where they will not be under tension when the car is sitting on its
wheels.  How you achieve this (with/without spring, vehicle on the ground,
subframe out of the car, etc) isn't important.

After the 4 links are done and installed in the car, you can install the
spring and spring link, then support the car with a floor jack or the wheel
on blocks to bring the suspension to the correct position to torque down
the spring link.  Then install the sway bar and shock, as these will work
against you if you install them first.

Good luck,
Jaime



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Re: [MBZ] 124 rear subframe

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Thanks Karl.   That was the approach I was thinking of, more or less.  I 
can see having the diff and axles mounted, and I could also see 
installing without the diff and axles.   The aussie Rick showed did it 
with just the subframe and links, then added wheel carriers, diff and 
axles.


I think it makes sense to tighten everything on the bench in position, 
then drop one end of  the lca to add spring.  I think it COULD be done 
with springs in place, but that would be easier if you had threaded rods 
for guides in the subframe mounts.



Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
January 8, 2020 at 12:36 AM
I had all new links, new diff and axles and a new subframe, so I replaced
the lower carrier bearings then assembled the whole shooting match on a
table, then lowered it onto a dolly and slid it under the car with the car
on blocks. Then I put a jack under the diff and lifted the whole thing 
into

place. Lined up the front bolts each side first, then the rear bolts, one
bolt at a time. It takes a bit of fiddling to get the whole mess balanced
over the jack point; I used a 2x6 under the diff andtried several slight
movements of the jack on the 2x6 until it balanced. The new swaybar, upper
sway link bolts and upper sls strut bolts were installed before the
subframe went in, then attached.

The link tightening is far easier to do on the bench than on the car 
and it

is easy to position the carriers properly before tightening, to avoid too
much bushing torque at final ride height. Same with the axle bolts, outer
axle nuts, and diff mount bolts front and back. You can also eyeball the
toe links and adjust the eccentric bolts to similar positions to get it in
the ballpark for the drive to the alignment shop. I left the inner main
control arm bushings loose, then after bolting the subframe in put the
springs and new pads in and gingerly with appropriate trepidation and arms
length gently jacked the arm up until the main spherical bearing bolt hole
lined up with the carrier bearing, adding some blocks under it as I went.
Once that bolt is in you can relax a bit and fit the lower sls shock and
swaybar bolts by adjusting the height of the jack and wiggling the swaybar
links, and tighten the inner main control arm bolt. The first side took 30
minutes. The second side took 5 minutes.

Remount the brake calipers. Put the wheels on. Mount the new flex discs
and driveshaft/center bearing. Hook up the new parking brake cables and
adjust the length. Hook up the ABS sensor wire and any of that traction
control stuff if the car has it. Exhaust will need to go back on
eventually, and splash shields, but not needed for shakedown. Everything
else is already torqued, so test the brakes and take a ride. Dont 
forget to

add hydraulic fluid and or brake fluid if any was drained out, and check
for leaks. Check the diff fluid level or change it out while the subframe
is out of the car.

On Tue, Jan 7, 2020, 8:31 PM Brian Toscano via Mercedes <
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Re: [MBZ] 124 rear subframe

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Karl, Jaime: what about fine tuning the alignment of the differential, once
you get to the point of connecting the driveshaft?  IIRC, when I swapped
differentials on my 124 last fall, new bushings were supposed to be
installed with a special tool in order to get the differential aimed
directly at the driveshaft so the entire assembly would be straight and (I
assume) minimize flexing at the flex disc and sideways loading on the
bearing at the nose of the differential.  I didn't have the special factory
tool, used a Mark 1 Mod 0 Eyeball and calipers, paid attention to alignment
of the old diff and focused on getting the new diff into the same
position.  The fore/aft depth of each bushing can affect the diff
alignment, if they are grossly different.
-
Max
Charleston SC




>
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Re: [MBZ] 124 rear subframe

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

Curley asked:

>What is the best way to install the rear subframe?   >Who has BTDT?

Not me. That said, this Aussie fellow I follow on YouTube is doing a 
restoration on a W124, and he just happens to be installing the rear suspension 
at this point.

https://youtu.be/PDUyNNvdrmw

Rick
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Re: [MBZ] 124 rear subframe

[Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes]

I had a discussion with my alignment guy last week about this topic.  Hes
been at it almost 40 years and specializes in european cars.  He confirmed
that the the links can be torqued down without the spring installed.  Its
important that the axle is horizontal, as stated in the workshop manual (it
doesn't state the weight of the car should be on the suspension for most of
the links).  The critical point is to have the bushing held in a position
where they will not be under tension when the car is sitting on its
wheels.  How you achieve this (with/without spring, vehicle on the ground,
subframe out of the car, etc) isn't important.

After the 4 links are done and installed in the car, you can install the
spring and spring link, then support the car with a floor jack or the wheel
on blocks to bring the suspension to the correct position to torque down
the spring link.  Then install the sway bar and shock, as these will work
against you if you install them first.

Good luck,
Jaime


On Tue, Jan 7, 2020 at 10:27 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> What is the best way to install the rear subframe?   Who has BTDT?
>
> i'm thinking to install the links and wheel carriers to the subframe
> first.   a straightedge across the top should line up with the centers
> of the outer end of the top link.   so that solves the problem of trying
> to tighten links you can't get to with the subframe installed, with the
> weight of the car on the subframe.   (book method)
>
> I can tighten all the links, then  install the subframe with springs.
> The weight is in the wheel carriers.
>
> then install the axles and diff.
>
>
> as an alternative:
> I could try assembling diff, axles and subframe, then raising it up,
> with a series of blocks, left, right, front and rear.   It would be
> harder to get everything in place and hard to list by hand to push into
> the final place for bolts.
>
> I am not ready yet.   Have to patch holes in the body, weld up the
> subframe mounts, replace brake lines, fuel hoses, etc before
> installing.   Then assemble the links and wheel carriers to the subframe.
>
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>
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>
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>

-- 
Jaime Kopchinski
http://www.jaimekop.com/
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Re: [MBZ] 124 rear subframe

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

I had all new links, new diff and axles and a new subframe, so I replaced
the lower carrier bearings then assembled the whole shooting match on a
table, then lowered it onto a dolly and slid it under the car with the car
on blocks. Then I put a jack under the diff and lifted the whole thing into
place. Lined up the front bolts each side first, then the rear bolts, one
bolt at a time. It takes a bit of fiddling to get the whole mess balanced
over the jack point; I used a 2x6 under the diff andtried several slight
movements of the jack on the 2x6 until it balanced. The new swaybar, upper
sway link bolts and upper sls strut bolts were installed before the
subframe went in, then attached.

The link tightening is far easier to do on the bench than on the car and it
is easy to position the carriers properly before tightening, to avoid too
much bushing torque at final ride height. Same with the axle bolts, outer
axle nuts, and diff mount bolts front and back. You can also eyeball the
toe links and adjust the eccentric bolts to similar positions to get it in
the ballpark for the drive to the alignment shop. I left the inner main
control arm bushings loose, then after bolting the subframe in put the
springs and new pads in and gingerly with appropriate trepidation and arms
length gently jacked the arm up until the main spherical bearing bolt hole
lined up with the carrier bearing, adding some blocks under it as I went.
Once that bolt is in you can relax a bit and fit the lower sls shock and
swaybar bolts by adjusting the height of the jack and wiggling the swaybar
links, and tighten the inner main control arm bolt. The first side took 30
minutes. The second side took 5 minutes.

 Remount the brake calipers. Put the wheels on. Mount the new flex discs
and driveshaft/center bearing. Hook up the new parking brake cables and
adjust the length. Hook up the ABS sensor wire and any of that traction
control stuff if the car has it. Exhaust will need to go back on
eventually, and splash shields, but not needed for shakedown. Everything
else is already torqued, so test the brakes and take a ride. Dont forget to
add hydraulic fluid and or brake fluid if any was drained out, and check
for leaks. Check the diff fluid level or change it out while the subframe
is out of the car.

On Tue, Jan 7, 2020, 8:31 PM Brian Toscano via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Yes that's more correct Max... it has been a while since I have done this
> and I mis-spoke.  Jacking up under each side so there's even pressure gives
> you more room to work when you're laying on your back.  I want to say I had
> a more clever approach to it at the time that was even easier but I can't
> seem to recall what it was.   I think I was able to tighten everything just
> laying on my back under the car. It's far easier to assemble the 5 link
> with no load on it outside the vehicle and then tighten for road worthiness
> later.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 7, 2020 at 9:16 PM Max Dillon via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Jacked up the spring link until even with the other side (ready to drive)
> > and then tightened up the links.
> >
> > Max Dillon
> > Charleston SC
> >
> > Jan 7, 2020 11:13:48 PM Max Dillon :
> >
> > >
> > > I was able to tighten all the links with the subframe mounted in the
> > car. I think I removed a tire, jacked up the spring
> > >
> > > Max Dillon
> > > Charleston SC
> > >
> > > Jan 7, 2020 10:59:17 PM Brian Toscano via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com>:
> > >
> > >
> > > > When I worked on 124/201 I would assemble the subframe next to the
> > vehicle
> > > > and then put it on a transmission jack and roll it into place and
> > secure it
> > > > to the unibody, connect driveshaft, and brake lines, etc. The 5-link
> > > > suspension can be tightened once it's installed under the vehicle by
> > > > jacking up under the differential. Just don't drive it far without
> > getting
> > > > an alignment. The key point with any suspension work is to tighten
> > > > bushings with the weight of the vehicle on the bushings (NOT with the
> > tires
> > > > hanging in the air). Using this method my ride height was within 1 mm
> > of
> > > > factory spec according to the dealer's alignment printout. :)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Jan 7, 2020 at 8:27 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes <
> > > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > What is the best way to install the rear subframe? Who has BTDT?
> > > > >
> > > > > i'm thinking to install the links and wheel carriers to the
> subframe
> > > > > first. a straightedge across the top should line up with the
> centers
> > > > > of the outer end of the top link. so that solves the problem of
> > trying
> > > > > to tighten links you can't get to with the subframe installed, with
> > the
> > > > > weight of the car on the subframe. (book method)
> > > > >
> > > > > I can tighten all the links, then install the subframe with
> springs.
> > > > > The weight is in th

Re: [MBZ] 124 rear subframe

[Brian Toscano via Mercedes]

Yes that's more correct Max... it has been a while since I have done this
and I mis-spoke.  Jacking up under each side so there's even pressure gives
you more room to work when you're laying on your back.  I want to say I had
a more clever approach to it at the time that was even easier but I can't
seem to recall what it was.   I think I was able to tighten everything just
laying on my back under the car. It's far easier to assemble the 5 link
with no load on it outside the vehicle and then tighten for road worthiness
later.



On Tue, Jan 7, 2020 at 9:16 PM Max Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> Jacked up the spring link until even with the other side (ready to drive)
> and then tightened up the links.
>
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
>
> Jan 7, 2020 11:13:48 PM Max Dillon :
>
> >
> > I was able to tighten all the links with the subframe mounted in the
> car. I think I removed a tire, jacked up the spring
> >
> > Max Dillon
> > Charleston SC
> >
> > Jan 7, 2020 10:59:17 PM Brian Toscano via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>:
> >
> >
> > > When I worked on 124/201 I would assemble the subframe next to the
> vehicle
> > > and then put it on a transmission jack and roll it into place and
> secure it
> > > to the unibody, connect driveshaft, and brake lines, etc. The 5-link
> > > suspension can be tightened once it's installed under the vehicle by
> > > jacking up under the differential. Just don't drive it far without
> getting
> > > an alignment. The key point with any suspension work is to tighten
> > > bushings with the weight of the vehicle on the bushings (NOT with the
> tires
> > > hanging in the air). Using this method my ride height was within 1 mm
> of
> > > factory spec according to the dealer's alignment printout. :)
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jan 7, 2020 at 8:27 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes <
> > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > What is the best way to install the rear subframe? Who has BTDT?
> > > >
> > > > i'm thinking to install the links and wheel carriers to the subframe
> > > > first. a straightedge across the top should line up with the centers
> > > > of the outer end of the top link. so that solves the problem of
> trying
> > > > to tighten links you can't get to with the subframe installed, with
> the
> > > > weight of the car on the subframe. (book method)
> > > >
> > > > I can tighten all the links, then install the subframe with springs.
> > > > The weight is in the wheel carriers.
> > > >
> > > > then install the axles and diff.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > as an alternative:
> > > > I could try assembling diff, axles and subframe, then raising it up,
> > > > with a series of blocks, left, right, front and rear. It would be
> > > > harder to get everything in place and hard to list by hand to push
> into
> > > > the final place for bolts.
> > > >
> > > > I am not ready yet. Have to patch holes in the body, weld up the
> > > > subframe mounts, replace brake lines, fuel hoses, etc before
> > > > installing. Then assemble the links and wheel carriers to the
> subframe.
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > > >
> > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > > >
> > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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> > >
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> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] 124 rear subframe

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Jacked up the spring link until even with the other side (ready to drive) and 
then tightened up the links.

Max Dillon
Charleston SC

Jan 7, 2020 11:13:48 PM Max Dillon :

> 
> I was able to tighten all the links with the subframe mounted in the car. I 
> think I removed a tire, jacked up the spring
> 
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> 
> Jan 7, 2020 10:59:17 PM Brian Toscano via Mercedes :
> 
> 
> > When I worked on 124/201 I would assemble the subframe next to the vehicle
> > and then put it on a transmission jack and roll it into place and secure it
> > to the unibody, connect driveshaft, and brake lines, etc. The 5-link
> > suspension can be tightened once it's installed under the vehicle by
> > jacking up under the differential. Just don't drive it far without getting
> > an alignment. The key point with any suspension work is to tighten
> > bushings with the weight of the vehicle on the bushings (NOT with the tires
> > hanging in the air). Using this method my ride height was within 1 mm of
> > factory spec according to the dealer's alignment printout. :)
> > 
> > 
> > On Tue, Jan 7, 2020 at 8:27 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > What is the best way to install the rear subframe? Who has BTDT?
> > > 
> > > i'm thinking to install the links and wheel carriers to the subframe
> > > first. a straightedge across the top should line up with the centers
> > > of the outer end of the top link. so that solves the problem of trying
> > > to tighten links you can't get to with the subframe installed, with the
> > > weight of the car on the subframe. (book method)
> > > 
> > > I can tighten all the links, then install the subframe with springs.
> > > The weight is in the wheel carriers.
> > > 
> > > then install the axles and diff.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > as an alternative:
> > > I could try assembling diff, axles and subframe, then raising it up,
> > > with a series of blocks, left, right, front and rear. It would be
> > > harder to get everything in place and hard to list by hand to push into
> > > the final place for bolts.
> > > 
> > > I am not ready yet. Have to patch holes in the body, weld up the
> > > subframe mounts, replace brake lines, fuel hoses, etc before
> > > installing. Then assemble the links and wheel carriers to the subframe.
> > > 
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > > 
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > > 
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > ___
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> > 
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> > 
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> > 
> > 
> 


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Re: [MBZ] 124 rear subframe

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

I was able to tighten all the links with the subframe mounted in the car. I 
think I removed a tire, jacked up the spring

Max Dillon
Charleston SC

Jan 7, 2020 10:59:17 PM Brian Toscano via Mercedes :

> When I worked on 124/201 I would assemble the subframe next to the vehicle
> and then put it on a transmission jack and roll it into place and secure it
> to the unibody, connect driveshaft, and brake lines, etc. The 5-link
> suspension can be tightened once it's installed under the vehicle by
> jacking up under the differential. Just don't drive it far without getting
> an alignment. The key point with any suspension work is to tighten
> bushings with the weight of the vehicle on the bushings (NOT with the tires
> hanging in the air). Using this method my ride height was within 1 mm of
> factory spec according to the dealer's alignment printout. :)
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jan 7, 2020 at 8:27 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> > What is the best way to install the rear subframe? Who has BTDT?
> > 
> > i'm thinking to install the links and wheel carriers to the subframe
> > first. a straightedge across the top should line up with the centers
> > of the outer end of the top link. so that solves the problem of trying
> > to tighten links you can't get to with the subframe installed, with the
> > weight of the car on the subframe. (book method)
> > 
> > I can tighten all the links, then install the subframe with springs.
> > The weight is in the wheel carriers.
> > 
> > then install the axles and diff.
> > 
> > 
> > as an alternative:
> > I could try assembling diff, axles and subframe, then raising it up,
> > with a series of blocks, left, right, front and rear. It would be
> > harder to get everything in place and hard to list by hand to push into
> > the final place for bolts.
> > 
> > I am not ready yet. Have to patch holes in the body, weld up the
> > subframe mounts, replace brake lines, fuel hoses, etc before
> > installing. Then assemble the links and wheel carriers to the subframe.
> > 
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > 
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > 
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > 
> > 
> > 
> ___
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> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] 124 rear subframe

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

My concern with both methods is getting the links tightened up in "ready to 
drive" position.

That said, the first option would probably be my choice.

Max Dillon
Charleston SC

Jan 7, 2020 10:27:17 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes :

> What is the best way to install the rear subframe? Who has BTDT?
> 
> i'm thinking to install the links and wheel carriers to the subframe
> first. a straightedge across the top should line up with the centers
> of the outer end of the top link. so that solves the problem of trying
> to tighten links you can't get to with the subframe installed, with the
> weight of the car on the subframe. (book method)
> 
> I can tighten all the links, then install the subframe with springs.
> The weight is in the wheel carriers.
> 
> then install the axles and diff.
> 
> 
> as an alternative:
> I could try assembling diff, axles and subframe, then raising it up,
> with a series of blocks, left, right, front and rear. It would be
> harder to get everything in place and hard to list by hand to push into
> the final place for bolts.
> 
> I am not ready yet. Have to patch holes in the body, weld up the
> subframe mounts, replace brake lines, fuel hoses, etc before
> installing. Then assemble the links and wheel carriers to the subframe.
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] 124 rear subframe

[Brian Toscano via Mercedes]

When I worked on 124/201 I would assemble the subframe next to the vehicle
and then put it on a transmission jack and roll it into place and secure it
to the unibody, connect driveshaft, and brake lines, etc.  The 5-link
suspension can be tightened once it's installed under the vehicle by
jacking up under the differential.  Just don't drive it far without getting
an alignment.  The key point with any suspension work is to tighten
bushings with the weight of the vehicle on the bushings (NOT with the tires
hanging in the air). Using this method my ride height was within 1 mm of
factory spec according to the dealer's alignment printout. :)


On Tue, Jan 7, 2020 at 8:27 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> What is the best way to install the rear subframe?   Who has BTDT?
>
> i'm thinking to install the links and wheel carriers to the subframe
> first.   a straightedge across the top should line up with the centers
> of the outer end of the top link.   so that solves the problem of trying
> to tighten links you can't get to with the subframe installed, with the
> weight of the car on the subframe.   (book method)
>
> I can tighten all the links, then  install the subframe with springs.
> The weight is in the wheel carriers.
>
> then install the axles and diff.
>
>
> as an alternative:
> I could try assembling diff, axles and subframe, then raising it up,
> with a series of blocks, left, right, front and rear.   It would be
> harder to get everything in place and hard to list by hand to push into
> the final place for bolts.
>
> I am not ready yet.   Have to patch holes in the body, weld up the
> subframe mounts, replace brake lines, fuel hoses, etc before
> installing.   Then assemble the links and wheel carriers to the subframe.
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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[MBZ] 124 rear subframe

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

What is the best way to install the rear subframe?   Who has BTDT?

i'm thinking to install the links and wheel carriers to the subframe 
first.   a straightedge across the top should line up with the centers 
of the outer end of the top link.   so that solves the problem of trying 
to tighten links you can't get to with the subframe installed, with the 
weight of the car on the subframe.   (book method)


I can tighten all the links, then  install the subframe with springs.  
The weight is in the wheel carriers.


then install the axles and diff.


as an alternative:
I could try assembling diff, axles and subframe, then raising it up, 
with a series of blocks, left, right, front and rear.   It would be 
harder to get everything in place and hard to list by hand to push into 
the final place for bolts.


I am not ready yet.   Have to patch holes in the body, weld up the 
subframe mounts, replace brake lines, fuel hoses, etc before 
installing.   Then assemble the links and wheel carriers to the subframe.


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Re: [MBZ] 124 rear subframe

[Peter Frederick]

Skip the water, just apply straight dishwashing liquid, it' much slimier.  You 
can also get real sneaky and buy a tube of silicone grease, the best way.  The 
rubber sticks to the steel, best to scrape the old stuff off if you can.

To pull them in, cut a short bit of heavy wall PVC pipe larger than the hole 
and use a plate and bolt/nut combo, although a jack will work as well.

I'll be doing this in the next couple months -- now that I got the front end 
quiet I can hear the rear making clunking noises.

Peter

-Original Message-
>From: Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com>
>Sent: Mar 26, 2010 10:30 PM
>To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
>Subject: [MBZ] 124 rear subframe
>
>Today I  started the rear subframe bushing job on the 87 300D.  Not 
>too bad.  As advertised, I was able to let one side hang after 
>removing the bolts.  I drilled out the rubber as much as I could 
>reach with a 5/16 drill.  Then I took a punch and beat the outer 
>shell inward at a couple places.  Then I drilled a 5/16 hole in the 
>side of the "cup" where I punched it in.
>
>That allowed me to stick the punch in and pry the old mount out. 
>(not that easy, but that is the general principle)
>
>On the second side, I got smart for the rear one.  I figured out that 
>the big washer from the front mount would pass through the hole on 
>top of the rear mount.  So, I let the side down, put the washer on 
>top of the rear mount, then jacked up the subframe so that the washer 
>pushed out the bushing.
>
>Seating the new bushings was a bit of a problem.  I did not buy the 
>megabuck official tools.  On the first side, the front one was a 
>problem to get seated.  I gooped them up with slime (soap water)  The 
>front one seated most of the way, but I couldn't get it all the way 
>in until I put the jack under the subframe right by the balky mount. 
>I pushed the rear one up with the jack.
>
>On the second side, the front one popped right in, but the back one 
>was balky.  I put the jack under it and took the weight off the 
>jackstands, then opened up the trunk, climbed up on the trunk ledge 
>and bounced.  That didn't seat it either.   I ran it in as far as I 
>could with the bolt, but it was short about 3/8" from seating.  I 
>ended up putting two 1/2" extensions under the frame and on top of 
>the subframe, because i could not find a big enough stack of washers 
>to drive it in with the bolt.   With that spacer, I was able to draw 
>the mount in with the bolt.
>
>I took some pictures, so the plan is to write it up with pictures so 
>the listmom can archive it.
>
>I spent a total of 7 hours , but that included breaks and a trip to 
>HF to see if they had something with big washers (no luck).
>
>Next time, I can probably do it in 4 hours or so.
>
>___
>http://www.okiebenz.com
>For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
>To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


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Re: [MBZ] 124 rear subframe

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

that would be cool, send it my way

Dieselhead wrote:
Today I  started the rear subframe bushing job on the 87 300D.  Not 
too bad.  As advertised, I was able to let one side hang after 
removing the bolts.  I drilled out the rubber as much as I could reach 
with a 5/16 drill.  Then I took a punch and beat the outer shell 
inward at a couple places.  Then I drilled a 5/16 hole in the side of 
the "cup" where I punched it in.


That allowed me to stick the punch in and pry the old mount out. (not 
that easy, but that is the general principle)


On the second side, I got smart for the rear one.  I figured out that 
the big washer from the front mount would pass through the hole on top 
of the rear mount.  So, I let the side down, put the washer on top of 
the rear mount, then jacked up the subframe so that the washer pushed 
out the bushing.


Seating the new bushings was a bit of a problem.  I did not buy the 
megabuck official tools.  On the first side, the front one was a 
problem to get seated.  I gooped them up with slime (soap water)  The 
front one seated most of the way, but I couldn't get it all the way in 
until I put the jack under the subframe right by the balky mount. I 
pushed the rear one up with the jack.


On the second side, the front one popped right in, but the back one 
was balky.  I put the jack under it and took the weight off the 
jackstands, then opened up the trunk, climbed up on the trunk ledge 
and bounced.  That didn't seat it either.   I ran it in as far as I 
could with the bolt, but it was short about 3/8" from seating.  I 
ended up putting two 1/2" extensions under the frame and on top of the 
subframe, because i could not find a big enough stack of washers to 
drive it in with the bolt.   With that spacer, I was able to draw the 
mount in with the bolt.


I took some pictures, so the plan is to write it up with pictures so 
the listmom can archive it.


I spent a total of 7 hours , but that included breaks and a trip to HF 
to see if they had something with big washers (no luck).


Next time, I can probably do it in 4 hours or so.

___
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--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
95 E300, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 350SDL, 
91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 
85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D, 
http://www.okiebenz.com



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[MBZ] 124 rear subframe

[Dieselhead]

Today I  started the rear subframe bushing job on the 87 300D.  Not 
too bad.  As advertised, I was able to let one side hang after 
removing the bolts.  I drilled out the rubber as much as I could 
reach with a 5/16 drill.  Then I took a punch and beat the outer 
shell inward at a couple places.  Then I drilled a 5/16 hole in the 
side of the "cup" where I punched it in.


That allowed me to stick the punch in and pry the old mount out. 
(not that easy, but that is the general principle)


On the second side, I got smart for the rear one.  I figured out that 
the big washer from the front mount would pass through the hole on 
top of the rear mount.  So, I let the side down, put the washer on 
top of the rear mount, then jacked up the subframe so that the washer 
pushed out the bushing.


Seating the new bushings was a bit of a problem.  I did not buy the 
megabuck official tools.  On the first side, the front one was a 
problem to get seated.  I gooped them up with slime (soap water)  The 
front one seated most of the way, but I couldn't get it all the way 
in until I put the jack under the subframe right by the balky mount. 
I pushed the rear one up with the jack.


On the second side, the front one popped right in, but the back one 
was balky.  I put the jack under it and took the weight off the 
jackstands, then opened up the trunk, climbed up on the trunk ledge 
and bounced.  That didn't seat it either.   I ran it in as far as I 
could with the bolt, but it was short about 3/8" from seating.  I 
ended up putting two 1/2" extensions under the frame and on top of 
the subframe, because i could not find a big enough stack of washers 
to drive it in with the bolt.   With that spacer, I was able to draw 
the mount in with the bolt.


I took some pictures, so the plan is to write it up with pictures so 
the listmom can archive it.


I spent a total of 7 hours , but that included breaks and a trip to 
HF to see if they had something with big washers (no luck).


Next time, I can probably do it in 4 hours or so.

___
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For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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Re: [MBZ] 124 rear subframe bushings

[Kevin]

On Mon, Jan 29, 2007 at 10:59:14PM -0500, Ralph W wrote:
> Anyone have a writeup or link on doing 124 rear subframe bushings? I saw a 
> 201 
> writeup on the web but can't find it anymore.

The rear suspension of a 124 and 201 are identical with the exceptions being
a 124's is bigger, and a 124 has a bushing for the differential on the 
subframe, whereas the 201 diff bolts directly to the subframe.

Lowering the subframe for access to the bushings is relatively straightforward.
Getting the bushings out is a lot easier if you have the factory tool. 
I did this a while back on a 201 and can try to give you a run through from
memory, but it's actually pretty well gone through in the factory manual.

It is a good idea before ordering any parts to jack up the back of the car
and remove the rear tires to inspect the links. It is very easy to replace
them while you have the subframe either out or partially lowered.

K

[MBZ] 124 rear subframe bushings

[Ralph W]

Anyone have a writeup or link on doing 124 rear subframe bushings? I saw a 201 
writeup on the web but can't find it anymore.

TIA,
Ralph W.
'83 300CD '82 300TD (2 parts wagons)
'90 300D   '01 E320 Wagon
'87 300TD
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Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 21:03:34 -0700
From: Craig McCluskey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Subject: Re: [MBZ] Somebody Did Somebody Wrong
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On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 20:19:10 -0700 "Bob Rentfro" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> This is kind of odd.can this dude do this?
>
> http://phoenix.craigslist.org/car/270469359.html

Well, he did it.

The real point is, "Can he get away with it?" I'm not an attorney and
don't even play one on TV, but it seems he is skating on thin ice. And if
craigslist doesn't like it, they can take it down with no recourse to him.


Craig