Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
didn't see any reply's though I think you have some very good questions.. douglas.. - Original Message - From: "hue wong" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:24 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues Hi all! Just had a chance to chek the reading and it looks like it's exactly 5 degrees off. (if the mesurement is: the mark on the cam guide collar and top notch on the bearing tower at 3' oclock are aligned and are supposed to match/lineup with the top post/nub/zero degrees on the bottom timing gauge on teh crankcase housing?) And if this is bad, then How hard and what exactly is the procedure to swap out the timing chain? Is is a timing chain swap, or do sprockets and tensioners and railguides, ect need to be swapped out as well! (oh how I hate these simple projects that get big! zoiks!) Thanks is advance for any info... --- Jim Cathey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Can anyone point me in the right direction of the > procedure to check the timing chain "stretch"? Line up the marks that are on the collar of the cam gear and the back of the front cam bearing tower at the 3 o'clock position when you're standing in front. Read the degrees of stretch off of the timing scale on the damper. Rotate the engine only in the correct direction, either with the crank nut or the power steering nut. The latter, if it works for you, is usually considerably easier to access. Anything above 5 degrees means it's probably time to change it out. Double that and it's time to not start the engine again before you fix it! -- Jim ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
Me too - I did two - a 615 and a 616, in the car. Used an aircraft bucking bar, a small ball peen hammer, and my father's helping hands (one of the cars was his). They both went over another 100K miles without anytiming chain problems. My kids are now driving the 616. On 4/5/06, Kaleb C. Striplin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have always just used a ball peen hammer. > -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK '90 300D 243K, Rattled '87 300SDL 290K, Limo Lite, or blue car '81 240D 173K, Gramps, or yellow car '78 450SLC 67K, brown car '97 Ply Grand Voyager 78K Van Go
Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
No, I just happen to have a chain crimper for this chain. Richard --- archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Do you rent any other tools, Richard? Front spring compressors, for > example? > GerryA > > - Original Message - > From: "Richard Hattaway" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >I will rent the tool for $30. You pay shipping both ways, and pay a > > deposit of $ 160. Total payment up front from you $ 200, money > order. > > I return a money order for $ 160 when you return the tool in good > > shape. > > > > Richard > > > ___ > http://www.striplin.net > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
More good news. Thanks. GerryA - Original Message - From: "Kaleb C. Striplin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I have always just used a ball peen hammer. archer wrote: It looks like Loren has convinced me I can do it with a ball peen hammer. Thanks for the reference to Mercedesshop. It's good to know tools can be rented someplace besides Performance Products. GerryA
Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
I have always just used a ball peen hammer.
archer wrote:
It looks like Loren has convinced me I can do it with a ball peen hammer.
Thanks for the reference to Mercedesshop. It's good to know tools can be
rented someplace besides Performance Products.
GerryA
- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Hi Gerry,
I agree - it would *definately* be difficult to do it while in the car.
The
only reason I was able to do it the way I did way because the engine was
disassembled (the crank was out) which allowed me to insert the TC in one
whole piece.
It can be rented at -
http://www.mercedesshop.com/diy/mb_tools/mb_tools.html
There's probably other places where it can be rented but I didn;t spend
much
time searching, There used to be a list member who loaned the tool but I
think he left the list - but I may be wrong - I'll look thru my favorites
to
see what I can find -
Sincerely,
Larry T ('74 911, '67 MGB, 91 300D Turbo)
___
http://www.striplin.net
For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D,
84 190D 2.2, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D,
76 450SEL, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 72 250C, 69 250
http://www.striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
What was the difference between your black 200D and the Hawaiian 200D? GerryA - Original Message - From: "Loren Faeth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> My 200D is black My wife would never drive it. She drove the Hawaiian 200D. She did like the 240D, and liked her 230TE better and now likes her 300TD very much. She does not want anything but an MB either now. At 04:40 PM 4/5/2006, you wrote: Mine was white. My wife wouldn't drive it when I brought it home; said it looked like an ugly ambulance. I finally persuaded her to drive it around the block. She wouldn't give it back and wouldn't drive anything but MBs the rest of her life. I still have her '83 240D (showroom condition) which I am thinking of selling or trading for one of those 40 mpg 190Ds. GerryA - Original Message - From: "Loren Faeth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 110s were/are great cars. Between the noise, the fins and the big ol > grille, they were always head-turners. 33 mpg combined with 27 cent > fuel > made for cheap travelling. > > At 03:57 PM 4/5/2006, you wrote: >>I got my '67 200D about 1972 and sold it about 1987. The speedo was >>broken >>when I got it, but it probably had over 400,000 miles on it when it was >>sold. I still miss the 33 mpg it got driving around town. >> >>Do you use the flat or the round end of the BIG hammer as a buck bar? >>The >>round end of mine has a small flat spot on the round end >>GerryA >> >>- Original Message - >>From: "Loren Faeth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >> > I forgot to mention the BIG (16-24 oz) hammer behind the link as an >> > anvil, >> > as Jim mentioned. Use a 6-8 oz ball peen. >> > >> > Yeah, if you know the principle of cold riveting is lots of blows >> > with >> > a >> > fairly light hammer, then you can do it with no problem. I have no >> > intention of spending 180-200 bucks for a special tool. >> > >> > When did you get your 200D? When did you get rid of it. >> > >> > I got my 62 190 D in 1971 and sold it in 1972. Bought my 200D in 72 >> > and >> > still have it. Bought and junked or sold several others in the >> > meantime. On Dec 7, 1991 I bought the Hawaiian 200D in Hawaii Kai >> > and >> > then >> > we put the OM 616 in it in 98. It is my son's car now. My original >> > 200D >> > is still the most stable car in all weather conditions I have ever >> > driven. But the SDL is sure nice!
Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
Found a 3/16" punch in with the leather tools. Don't believe I've ever had a 1/8" though. Will have to order one. GerryA - Original Message - From: "Loren Faeth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> one made for a 1/8 inch rivet would do. The one I have used is for 3/16 rivets, but it is too big for the timing chains. I like them because the hole is used to make sure the links are tight before you peen the rivet. At 04:27 PM 4/5/2006, you wrote: Probably have to buy the chain first, measure the diameter of the rivet, and then order the punch tool; wouldn't I? GerryA - Original Message - From: "Loren Faeth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >I did the riveting in the car on a 603. it should be even easier on a > 616/617. There is also a punch tool made for peening rivets that has a > hole the size of the rivet and a dimple to peen the rivet. I would bet > that Motion Industries or a similar industrial drive supplier can sell > one > to you for the MB chain. This is handy because it allows you to keep > the > striking hammer away from the front surface of the head. It requires > at > least three hands though. > > The secret of riveting the chain in the car is to use lots of little > taps. I probably tapped each pin 50 times or so. Using taps also > keeps > you from damaging the sprocket or the head surfaces. Peening a rivet > is > about lots of little taps, not one or two whacks. YMMV All the older > engines i have done had a master link that I used, rather than peening. > > Loren
Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
My 200D is black My wife would never drive it. She drove the Hawaiian 200D. She did like the 240D, and liked her 230TE better and now likes her 300TD very much. She does not want anything but an MB either now. At 04:40 PM 4/5/2006, you wrote: Mine was white. My wife wouldn't drive it when I brought it home; said it looked like an ugly ambulance. I finally persuaded her to drive it around the block. She wouldn't give it back and wouldn't drive anything but MBs the rest of her life. I still have her '83 240D (showroom condition) which I am thinking of selling or trading for one of those 40 mpg 190Ds. GerryA - Original Message - From: "Loren Faeth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 5:11 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues > the flat end > > It is there to absorb the energy of the taps that is not translated into > moving the steel in the rivet (link pin) so that energy does not distort > the sprocket or cam assembly. > > 110s were/are great cars. Between the noise, the fins and the big ol > grille, they were always head-turners. 33 mpg combined with 27 cent fuel > made for cheap travelling. > > At 03:57 PM 4/5/2006, you wrote: >>I got my '67 200D about 1972 and sold it about 1987. The speedo was >>broken >>when I got it, but it probably had over 400,000 miles on it when it was >>sold. I still miss the 33 mpg it got driving around town. >> >>Do you use the flat or the round end of the BIG hammer as a buck bar? The >>round end of mine has a small flat spot on the round end >>GerryA >> >>- Original Message - >>From: "Loren Faeth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >> > I forgot to mention the BIG (16-24 oz) hammer behind the link as an >> > anvil, >> > as Jim mentioned. Use a 6-8 oz ball peen. >> > >> > Yeah, if you know the principle of cold riveting is lots of blows with >> > a >> > fairly light hammer, then you can do it with no problem. I have no >> > intention of spending 180-200 bucks for a special tool. >> > >> > When did you get your 200D? When did you get rid of it. >> > >> > I got my 62 190 D in 1971 and sold it in 1972. Bought my 200D in 72 >> > and >> > still have it. Bought and junked or sold several others in the >> > meantime. On Dec 7, 1991 I bought the Hawaiian 200D in Hawaii Kai and >> > then >> > we put the OM 616 in it in 98. It is my son's car now. My original >> > 200D >> > is still the most stable car in all weather conditions I have ever >> > driven. But the SDL is sure nice! >> > >> > At 02:31 PM 4/5/2006, you wrote: >> >>Thanks for the encouragement. I've done quit a bit of riveting/peening >> >>too. >> >>Maybe I will try it when the chains get up to 5 degrees. >> >>GerryA >> >> >> >>- Original Message - >> >>From: "Loren Faeth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >> > It rivets the head. Having grown up riveting knives on sickle bars >> >> > and >> >> > riveting other things, I rivet the new style with a small ball peen >> >> > hammer. I am old enough that i spent Jr. High shop peening >> >> > aluminum, >> >> > thereby having a first hand knowledge of how the hammer gets its >> >> > name. >> >> > I >> >> > guess there were people who were not careful enough to get the clip >> >> > snapped >> >> > in properly, so the master link has been officially banned. I did >> >> > them >> >> > for >> >> > years and never had one come apart, but i always checked my work to >> >> > be >> >> > sure >> >> > the clip was clipped correctly, since it is critical. >> >> > >> >> > Since you also worked on OM 621 engines, I am sure you can rivet the >> >> > link >> >> > without the special tool. >> >> > >> >> > Loren >> >> >> >>-- >> >> >>Does the special tool "rivet" or "brad" the chains patch link >> >> >>together? >> >> >> >> >> >>The only one I've done; on a '67 200D; had a bicycle chain type >> >> >>patch >> >> >>link >> >> >>that snapped together without u
Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
one made for a 1/8 inch rivet would do. The one I have used is for 3/16
rivets, but it is too big for the timing chains. I like them because the
hole is used to make sure the links are tight before you peen the rivet.
At 04:27 PM 4/5/2006, you wrote:
Probably have to buy the chain first, measure the diameter of the rivet, and
then order the punch tool; wouldn't I?
GerryA
- Original Message -
From: "Loren Faeth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>I did the riveting in the car on a 603. it should be even easier on a
> 616/617. There is also a punch tool made for peening rivets that has a
> hole the size of the rivet and a dimple to peen the rivet. I would bet
> that Motion Industries or a similar industrial drive supplier can sell one
> to you for the MB chain. This is handy because it allows you to keep the
> striking hammer away from the front surface of the head. It requires at
> least three hands though.
>
> The secret of riveting the chain in the car is to use lots of little
> taps. I probably tapped each pin 50 times or so. Using taps also keeps
> you from damaging the sprocket or the head surfaces. Peening a rivet is
> about lots of little taps, not one or two whacks. YMMV All the older
> engines i have done had a master link that I used, rather than peening.
>
> Loren
>
> At 03:30 PM 4/5/2006, you wrote:
>>Hi Gerry,
>>I agree - it would *definately* be difficult to do it while in the car.
>>The
>>only reason I was able to do it the way I did way because the engine was
>>disassembled (the crank was out) which allowed me to insert the TC in one
>>whole piece.
>>
>>It can be rented at -
>>http://www.mercedesshop.com/diy/mb_tools/mb_tools.html
>>
>>There's probably other places where it can be rented but I didn;t spend
>>much
>>time searching, There used to be a list member who loaned the tool but I
>>think he left the list - but I may be wrong - I'll look thru my favorites
>>to
>>see what I can find -
>>
>>Sincerely,
>>Larry T ('74 911, '67 MGB, 91 300D Turbo)
>>A Blood Test for your oil - www.youroil.net
>>For Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
>>Weber Carb Stuff http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
>>http://members.rennlist.com/my_911/Index.htm For my Paint Job Info
>>- Original Message -
>>From: "archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 3:03 PM
>>Subject: Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
>>
>>
>> > Thanks Larry,
>> > It might be risky trying to brad the stud with the chain in the car and
>> > someone holding a buck bar, so it's probably best to rent the tool.
>> > Performance Products catalog lists the tools sale price at $195.00 but
>> > I
>> > couldn't find their rental price. Does Rusty rent the tool?
>> > GerryA
>> >
>> > - Original Message -
>> > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 2:44 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
>> >
>> >
>> >> It forces the stud material over in a brad-like manner. I managed to
>> >> do
>> >> it
>> >> without the special tool but the engine was completely disassembled
>> >> during
>> >> the rebuild and I was able to put the chain in a vise where I could
>> >> work
>> >> on
>> >> it. Then, I put the complete circular chain in place. I tried to
>> >> get
>> >> my
>> >> wife to take the chain to the dealer and pay them to use the special
>> >> tool
>> >> to
>> >> brad the connnecting link over - didn't work - even though she
>> >> explained
>> >> it
>> >> was needed for a *completely disassembled* engine they refused saying
>> >> it
>> >> was
>> >> supposed to be installed *then* the connecting link was to be
>> >> assembled.
>> >> Oh
>> >> well, I found a way in spite of them. ;-)
>> >>
>> >> Sincerely,
>> >> Larry T ('74 911, '67 MGB, 91 300D Turbo)
>> >> A Blood Test for your oil - www.youroil.net
>> >> For Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
>> >> Weber Carb Stuff http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
>> >> http://members.rennlist.com/my_911/Index.htm For my Paint Job Info
>> >>
Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
Probably have to buy the chain first, measure the diameter of the rivet, and
then order the punch tool; wouldn't I?
GerryA
- Original Message -
From: "Loren Faeth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I did the riveting in the car on a 603. it should be even easier on a
616/617. There is also a punch tool made for peening rivets that has a
hole the size of the rivet and a dimple to peen the rivet. I would bet
that Motion Industries or a similar industrial drive supplier can sell one
to you for the MB chain. This is handy because it allows you to keep the
striking hammer away from the front surface of the head. It requires at
least three hands though.
The secret of riveting the chain in the car is to use lots of little
taps. I probably tapped each pin 50 times or so. Using taps also keeps
you from damaging the sprocket or the head surfaces. Peening a rivet is
about lots of little taps, not one or two whacks. YMMV All the older
engines i have done had a master link that I used, rather than peening.
Loren
At 03:30 PM 4/5/2006, you wrote:
Hi Gerry,
I agree - it would *definately* be difficult to do it while in the car.
The
only reason I was able to do it the way I did way because the engine was
disassembled (the crank was out) which allowed me to insert the TC in one
whole piece.
It can be rented at -
http://www.mercedesshop.com/diy/mb_tools/mb_tools.html
There's probably other places where it can be rented but I didn;t spend
much
time searching, There used to be a list member who loaned the tool but I
think he left the list - but I may be wrong - I'll look thru my favorites
to
see what I can find -
Sincerely,
Larry T ('74 911, '67 MGB, 91 300D Turbo)
A Blood Test for your oil - www.youroil.net
For Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
Weber Carb Stuff http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
http://members.rennlist.com/my_911/Index.htm For my Paint Job Info
- Original Message -
From: "archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
> Thanks Larry,
> It might be risky trying to brad the stud with the chain in the car and
> someone holding a buck bar, so it's probably best to rent the tool.
> Performance Products catalog lists the tools sale price at $195.00 but
> I
> couldn't find their rental price. Does Rusty rent the tool?
> GerryA
>
> - Original Message -
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 2:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
>
>
>> It forces the stud material over in a brad-like manner. I managed to
>> do
>> it
>> without the special tool but the engine was completely disassembled
>> during
>> the rebuild and I was able to put the chain in a vise where I could
>> work
>> on
>> it. Then, I put the complete circular chain in place. I tried to
>> get
>> my
>> wife to take the chain to the dealer and pay them to use the special
>> tool
>> to
>> brad the connnecting link over - didn't work - even though she
>> explained
>> it
>> was needed for a *completely disassembled* engine they refused saying
>> it
>> was
>> supposed to be installed *then* the connecting link was to be
>> assembled.
>> Oh
>> well, I found a way in spite of them. ;-)
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Larry T ('74 911, '67 MGB, 91 300D Turbo)
>> A Blood Test for your oil - www.youroil.net
>> For Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
>> Weber Carb Stuff http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
>> http://members.rennlist.com/my_911/Index.htm For my Paint Job Info
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 1:50 PM
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
>>
>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>> The procedures you;ve read are probably pretty descriptive.
>>>> Basically,
>>>> you
>>>> attach the new chain to the old one, turn the engine slowly and feed
>>>> the
>>>> new
>>>> one in as the old one comes out. When the old one is completely
>>>> out,
>>>> attach
>>>> the ends of the new one together and using the special tool, fix the
>>>> connecting link.
>>>> There are places which will loan or rent you th
Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
Mine was white. My wife wouldn't drive it when I brought it home; said it looked like an ugly ambulance. I finally persuaded her to drive it around the block. She wouldn't give it back and wouldn't drive anything but MBs the rest of her life. I still have her '83 240D (showroom condition) which I am thinking of selling or trading for one of those 40 mpg 190Ds. GerryA - Original Message - From: "Loren Faeth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 5:11 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues the flat end It is there to absorb the energy of the taps that is not translated into moving the steel in the rivet (link pin) so that energy does not distort the sprocket or cam assembly. 110s were/are great cars. Between the noise, the fins and the big ol grille, they were always head-turners. 33 mpg combined with 27 cent fuel made for cheap travelling. At 03:57 PM 4/5/2006, you wrote: I got my '67 200D about 1972 and sold it about 1987. The speedo was broken when I got it, but it probably had over 400,000 miles on it when it was sold. I still miss the 33 mpg it got driving around town. Do you use the flat or the round end of the BIG hammer as a buck bar? The round end of mine has a small flat spot on the round end GerryA - Original Message - From: "Loren Faeth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > I forgot to mention the BIG (16-24 oz) hammer behind the link as an > anvil, > as Jim mentioned. Use a 6-8 oz ball peen. > > Yeah, if you know the principle of cold riveting is lots of blows with > a > fairly light hammer, then you can do it with no problem. I have no > intention of spending 180-200 bucks for a special tool. > > When did you get your 200D? When did you get rid of it. > > I got my 62 190 D in 1971 and sold it in 1972. Bought my 200D in 72 > and > still have it. Bought and junked or sold several others in the > meantime. On Dec 7, 1991 I bought the Hawaiian 200D in Hawaii Kai and > then > we put the OM 616 in it in 98. It is my son's car now. My original > 200D > is still the most stable car in all weather conditions I have ever > driven. But the SDL is sure nice! > > At 02:31 PM 4/5/2006, you wrote: >>Thanks for the encouragement. I've done quit a bit of riveting/peening >>too. >>Maybe I will try it when the chains get up to 5 degrees. >>GerryA >> >>- Original Message - >>From: "Loren Faeth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > It rivets the head. Having grown up riveting knives on sickle bars >> > and >> > riveting other things, I rivet the new style with a small ball peen >> > hammer. I am old enough that i spent Jr. High shop peening >> > aluminum, >> > thereby having a first hand knowledge of how the hammer gets its >> > name. >> > I >> > guess there were people who were not careful enough to get the clip >> > snapped >> > in properly, so the master link has been officially banned. I did >> > them >> > for >> > years and never had one come apart, but i always checked my work to >> > be >> > sure >> > the clip was clipped correctly, since it is critical. >> > >> > Since you also worked on OM 621 engines, I am sure you can rivet the >> > link >> > without the special tool. >> > >> > Loren >> >>-- >> >>Does the special tool "rivet" or "brad" the chains patch link >> >>together? >> >> >> >>The only one I've done; on a '67 200D; had a bicycle chain type >> >>patch >> >>link >> >>that snapped together without using a special tool. >> >>GerryA ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.5/301 - Release Date: 4/4/2006
Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
Do you rent any other tools, Richard? Front spring compressors, for example? GerryA - Original Message - From: "Richard Hattaway" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I will rent the tool for $30. You pay shipping both ways, and pay a deposit of $ 160. Total payment up front from you $ 200, money order. I return a money order for $ 160 when you return the tool in good shape. Richard
Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
It looks like Loren has convinced me I can do it with a ball peen hammer.
Thanks for the reference to Mercedesshop. It's good to know tools can be
rented someplace besides Performance Products.
GerryA
- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Hi Gerry,
I agree - it would *definately* be difficult to do it while in the car.
The
only reason I was able to do it the way I did way because the engine was
disassembled (the crank was out) which allowed me to insert the TC in one
whole piece.
It can be rented at -
http://www.mercedesshop.com/diy/mb_tools/mb_tools.html
There's probably other places where it can be rented but I didn;t spend
much
time searching, There used to be a list member who loaned the tool but I
think he left the list - but I may be wrong - I'll look thru my favorites
to
see what I can find -
Sincerely,
Larry T ('74 911, '67 MGB, 91 300D Turbo)
Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
the flat end It is there to absorb the energy of the taps that is not translated into moving the steel in the rivet (link pin) so that energy does not distort the sprocket or cam assembly. 110s were/are great cars. Between the noise, the fins and the big ol grille, they were always head-turners. 33 mpg combined with 27 cent fuel made for cheap travelling. At 03:57 PM 4/5/2006, you wrote: I got my '67 200D about 1972 and sold it about 1987. The speedo was broken when I got it, but it probably had over 400,000 miles on it when it was sold. I still miss the 33 mpg it got driving around town. Do you use the flat or the round end of the BIG hammer as a buck bar? The round end of mine has a small flat spot on the round end GerryA - Original Message - From: "Loren Faeth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > I forgot to mention the BIG (16-24 oz) hammer behind the link as an anvil, > as Jim mentioned. Use a 6-8 oz ball peen. > > Yeah, if you know the principle of cold riveting is lots of blows with a > fairly light hammer, then you can do it with no problem. I have no > intention of spending 180-200 bucks for a special tool. > > When did you get your 200D? When did you get rid of it. > > I got my 62 190 D in 1971 and sold it in 1972. Bought my 200D in 72 and > still have it. Bought and junked or sold several others in the > meantime. On Dec 7, 1991 I bought the Hawaiian 200D in Hawaii Kai and > then > we put the OM 616 in it in 98. It is my son's car now. My original 200D > is still the most stable car in all weather conditions I have ever > driven. But the SDL is sure nice! > > At 02:31 PM 4/5/2006, you wrote: >>Thanks for the encouragement. I've done quit a bit of riveting/peening >>too. >>Maybe I will try it when the chains get up to 5 degrees. >>GerryA >> >>- Original Message - >>From: "Loren Faeth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > It rivets the head. Having grown up riveting knives on sickle bars and >> > riveting other things, I rivet the new style with a small ball peen >> > hammer. I am old enough that i spent Jr. High shop peening aluminum, >> > thereby having a first hand knowledge of how the hammer gets its name. >> > I >> > guess there were people who were not careful enough to get the clip >> > snapped >> > in properly, so the master link has been officially banned. I did them >> > for >> > years and never had one come apart, but i always checked my work to be >> > sure >> > the clip was clipped correctly, since it is critical. >> > >> > Since you also worked on OM 621 engines, I am sure you can rivet the >> > link >> > without the special tool. >> > >> > Loren >> >>-- >> >>Does the special tool "rivet" or "brad" the chains patch link together? >> >> >> >>The only one I've done; on a '67 200D; had a bicycle chain type patch >> >>link >> >>that snapped together without using a special tool. >> >>GerryA ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
hue wong wrote: So, Look slike I would do this if I had access to the tool The tool is like 189.00 and the timiming chain is only 63.00 so geee. can't justify buying the tool.. You can rent the tool from many suppliers that sell the chain. You can also peen the chain link with a hammer and backing tool to support it. Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi (retired)
Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
I did the riveting in the car on a 603. it should be even easier on a
616/617. There is also a punch tool made for peening rivets that has a
hole the size of the rivet and a dimple to peen the rivet. I would bet
that Motion Industries or a similar industrial drive supplier can sell one
to you for the MB chain. This is handy because it allows you to keep the
striking hammer away from the front surface of the head. It requires at
least three hands though.
The secret of riveting the chain in the car is to use lots of little
taps. I probably tapped each pin 50 times or so. Using taps also keeps
you from damaging the sprocket or the head surfaces. Peening a rivet is
about lots of little taps, not one or two whacks. YMMV All the older
engines i have done had a master link that I used, rather than peening.
Loren
At 03:30 PM 4/5/2006, you wrote:
Hi Gerry,
I agree - it would *definately* be difficult to do it while in the car. The
only reason I was able to do it the way I did way because the engine was
disassembled (the crank was out) which allowed me to insert the TC in one
whole piece.
It can be rented at - http://www.mercedesshop.com/diy/mb_tools/mb_tools.html
There's probably other places where it can be rented but I didn;t spend much
time searching, There used to be a list member who loaned the tool but I
think he left the list - but I may be wrong - I'll look thru my favorites to
see what I can find -
Sincerely,
Larry T ('74 911, '67 MGB, 91 300D Turbo)
A Blood Test for your oil - www.youroil.net
For Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
Weber Carb Stuff http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
http://members.rennlist.com/my_911/Index.htm For my Paint Job Info
- Original Message -
From: "archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
> Thanks Larry,
> It might be risky trying to brad the stud with the chain in the car and
> someone holding a buck bar, so it's probably best to rent the tool.
> Performance Products catalog lists the tools sale price at $195.00 but I
> couldn't find their rental price. Does Rusty rent the tool?
> GerryA
>
> - Original Message -
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 2:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
>
>
>> It forces the stud material over in a brad-like manner. I managed to do
>> it
>> without the special tool but the engine was completely disassembled
>> during
>> the rebuild and I was able to put the chain in a vise where I could work
>> on
>> it. Then, I put the complete circular chain in place. I tried to get
>> my
>> wife to take the chain to the dealer and pay them to use the special tool
>> to
>> brad the connnecting link over - didn't work - even though she explained
>> it
>> was needed for a *completely disassembled* engine they refused saying it
>> was
>> supposed to be installed *then* the connecting link was to be assembled.
>> Oh
>> well, I found a way in spite of them. ;-)
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Larry T ('74 911, '67 MGB, 91 300D Turbo)
>> A Blood Test for your oil - www.youroil.net
>> For Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
>> Weber Carb Stuff http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
>> http://members.rennlist.com/my_911/Index.htm For my Paint Job Info
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 1:50 PM
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
>>
>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>> The procedures you;ve read are probably pretty descriptive. Basically,
>>>> you
>>>> attach the new chain to the old one, turn the engine slowly and feed
>>>> the
>>>> new
>>>> one in as the old one comes out. When the old one is completely out,
>>>> attach
>>>> the ends of the new one together and using the special tool, fix the
>>>> connecting link.
>>>> There are places which will loan or rent you the special tool needed to
>>>> finish off the connecting link --
>>>> The critical part is to make sure the chain stays in contact with the
>>>> sprockets so everything turns in concert. Where the chain engages the
>>>> injection pump drive sprocket the clearence is tight enough to keep the
&g
Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
I got my '67 200D about 1972 and sold it about 1987. The speedo was broken when I got it, but it probably had over 400,000 miles on it when it was sold. I still miss the 33 mpg it got driving around town. Do you use the flat or the round end of the BIG hammer as a buck bar? The round end of mine has a small flat spot on the round end GerryA - Original Message - From: "Loren Faeth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I forgot to mention the BIG (16-24 oz) hammer behind the link as an anvil, as Jim mentioned. Use a 6-8 oz ball peen. Yeah, if you know the principle of cold riveting is lots of blows with a fairly light hammer, then you can do it with no problem. I have no intention of spending 180-200 bucks for a special tool. When did you get your 200D? When did you get rid of it. I got my 62 190 D in 1971 and sold it in 1972. Bought my 200D in 72 and still have it. Bought and junked or sold several others in the meantime. On Dec 7, 1991 I bought the Hawaiian 200D in Hawaii Kai and then we put the OM 616 in it in 98. It is my son's car now. My original 200D is still the most stable car in all weather conditions I have ever driven. But the SDL is sure nice! At 02:31 PM 4/5/2006, you wrote: Thanks for the encouragement. I've done quit a bit of riveting/peening too. Maybe I will try it when the chains get up to 5 degrees. GerryA - Original Message - From: "Loren Faeth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > It rivets the head. Having grown up riveting knives on sickle bars and > riveting other things, I rivet the new style with a small ball peen > hammer. I am old enough that i spent Jr. High shop peening aluminum, > thereby having a first hand knowledge of how the hammer gets its name. > I > guess there were people who were not careful enough to get the clip > snapped > in properly, so the master link has been officially banned. I did them > for > years and never had one come apart, but i always checked my work to be > sure > the clip was clipped correctly, since it is critical. > > Since you also worked on OM 621 engines, I am sure you can rivet the > link > without the special tool. > > Loren >>-- >>Does the special tool "rivet" or "brad" the chains patch link together? >> >>The only one I've done; on a '67 200D; had a bicycle chain type patch >>link >>that snapped together without using a special tool. >>GerryA
Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
Had to be a bowl or an ashtray! ;-) I remember those days too.
Sincerely,
Larry T ('74 911, '67 MGB, 91 300D Turbo)
A Blood Test for your oil - www.youroil.net
For Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
Weber Carb Stuff http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
http://members.rennlist.com/my_911/Index.htm For my Paint Job Info
- Original Message -
From: "archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
Thanks for the encouragement. I've done quit a bit of riveting/peening
too.
Maybe I will try it when the chains get up to 5 degrees. I'll bet you
were
making a bowl out of a flat sheet of aluminum in Jr. High shop, weren't
you?
(grin)
GerryA
- Original Message -
From: "Loren Faeth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
It rivets the head. Having grown up riveting knives on sickle bars and
riveting other things, I rivet the new style with a small ball peen
hammer. I am old enough that i spent Jr. High shop peening aluminum,
thereby having a first hand knowledge of how the hammer gets its name. I
guess there were people who were not careful enough to get the clip
snapped
in properly, so the master link has been officially banned. I did them
for
years and never had one come apart, but i always checked my work to be
sure
the clip was clipped correctly, since it is critical.
Since you also worked on OM 621 engines, I am sure you can rivet the link
without the special tool.
Loren
At 12:50 PM 4/5/2006, you wrote:
- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> The procedures you;ve read are probably pretty descriptive.
> Basically,
> you
> attach the new chain to the old one, turn the engine slowly and feed
> the
> new
> one in as the old one comes out. When the old one is completely out,
> attach
> the ends of the new one together and using the special tool, fix the
> connecting link.
> There are places which will loan or rent you the special tool needed
> to
> finish off the connecting link --
> The critical part is to make sure the chain stays in contact with the
> sprockets so everything turns in concert. Where the chain engages the
> injection pump drive sprocket the clearence is tight enough to keep
> the
> chain engaged - but you'll need to keep tension on the chain so the
> chain
> stays tight against the cam sprocket, etc. Not a difficult job, but
> you
> must be vigilent so the chain doesn;t jump a link.
> Sincerely,
> Larry T ('74 911, '67 MGB, 91 300D Turbo)
--
Does the special tool "rivet" or "brad" the chains patch link together?
The only one I've done; on a '67 200D; had a bicycle chain type patch
link
that snapped together without using a special tool.
GerryA
___
http://www.striplin.net
For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
Hi Gerry,
I agree - it would *definately* be difficult to do it while in the car. The
only reason I was able to do it the way I did way because the engine was
disassembled (the crank was out) which allowed me to insert the TC in one
whole piece.
It can be rented at - http://www.mercedesshop.com/diy/mb_tools/mb_tools.html
There's probably other places where it can be rented but I didn;t spend much
time searching, There used to be a list member who loaned the tool but I
think he left the list - but I may be wrong - I'll look thru my favorites to
see what I can find -
Sincerely,
Larry T ('74 911, '67 MGB, 91 300D Turbo)
A Blood Test for your oil - www.youroil.net
For Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
Weber Carb Stuff http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
http://members.rennlist.com/my_911/Index.htm For my Paint Job Info
- Original Message -
From: "archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
Thanks Larry,
It might be risky trying to brad the stud with the chain in the car and
someone holding a buck bar, so it's probably best to rent the tool.
Performance Products catalog lists the tools sale price at $195.00 but I
couldn't find their rental price. Does Rusty rent the tool?
GerryA
- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
It forces the stud material over in a brad-like manner. I managed to do
it
without the special tool but the engine was completely disassembled
during
the rebuild and I was able to put the chain in a vise where I could work
on
it. Then, I put the complete circular chain in place. I tried to get
my
wife to take the chain to the dealer and pay them to use the special tool
to
brad the connnecting link over - didn't work - even though she explained
it
was needed for a *completely disassembled* engine they refused saying it
was
supposed to be installed *then* the connecting link was to be assembled.
Oh
well, I found a way in spite of them. ;-)
Sincerely,
Larry T ('74 911, '67 MGB, 91 300D Turbo)
A Blood Test for your oil - www.youroil.net
For Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
Weber Carb Stuff http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
http://members.rennlist.com/my_911/Index.htm For my Paint Job Info
- Original Message -
From: "archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
The procedures you;ve read are probably pretty descriptive. Basically,
you
attach the new chain to the old one, turn the engine slowly and feed
the
new
one in as the old one comes out. When the old one is completely out,
attach
the ends of the new one together and using the special tool, fix the
connecting link.
There are places which will loan or rent you the special tool needed to
finish off the connecting link --
The critical part is to make sure the chain stays in contact with the
sprockets so everything turns in concert. Where the chain engages the
injection pump drive sprocket the clearence is tight enough to keep the
chain engaged - but you'll need to keep tension on the chain so the
chain
stays tight against the cam sprocket, etc. Not a difficult job, but
you
must be vigilent so the chain doesn;t jump a link.
Sincerely,
Larry T ('74 911, '67 MGB, 91 300D Turbo)
--
Does the special tool "rivet" or "brad" the chains patch link together?
The only one I've done; on a '67 200D; had a bicycle chain type patch
link
that snapped together without using a special tool.
GerryA
___
http://www.striplin.net
For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
___
http://www.striplin.net
For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.5/301 - Release Date: 4/4/2006
___
http://www.striplin.net
For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
You can rent it from:
http://www.mercedesshop.com/diy/mb_tools/mb_tools.html
No need to buy it. And there are probably other places to rent it from. At
one time I believe there was a list member who loaned it out.
Once you get comfortable with the diesel you'll love it like we do - it's an
amazing engine - long lasting and hard working. You're becoming familar
with your engine in the best possible way - slowly and carefully.
Just go slow and ask questions when you don't understand or are not
absolutely sure about how to proceed. Also, the diesel in inherently
different from the gas engines you're used to and some thing are vastly
different.
Good luck - keep us informed --
Sincerely,
Larry T ('74 911, '67 MGB, 91 300D Turbo)
A Blood Test for your oil - www.youroil.net
For Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
Weber Carb Stuff http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
http://members.rennlist.com/my_911/Index.htm For my Paint Job Info
- Original Message -
From: "hue wong" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 2:51 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
So, Look slike I would do this if I had access to the
tool The tool is like 189.00 and the timiming
chain is only 63.00 so geee. can't justify buying
the tool..
If, it's like an old bike chain, no problem, but it
looks like this big double chain may be a bit more and
need the tool? ANyone know where to dig one up in
Seattle?
Also, So... I swap this chain out and that re-synchs
the timeing, a quick valve clearence set and all is
well withthe engine? (seems strangly simple)
These desiels are so much different then the gassers I
had before (this is my first deseil)...
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It forces the stud material over in a brad-like
manner. I managed to do it
without the special tool but the engine was
completely disassembled during
the rebuild and I was able to put the chain in a
vise where I could work on
it. Then, I put the complete circular chain in
place. I tried to get my
wife to take the chain to the dealer and pay them to
use the special tool to
brad the connnecting link over - didn't work - even
though she explained it
was needed for a *completely disassembled* engine
they refused saying it was
supposed to be installed *then* the connecting link
was to be assembled. Oh
well, I found a way in spite of them. ;-)
Sincerely,
Larry T ('74 911, '67 MGB, 91 300D Turbo)
A Blood Test for your oil - www.youroil.net
For Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
Weber Carb Stuff
http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
http://members.rennlist.com/my_911/Index.htm For my
Paint Job Info
- Original Message -
From: "archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
>
> - Original Message -
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> The procedures you;ve read are probably pretty
descriptive. Basically,
>> you
>> attach the new chain to the old one, turn the
engine slowly and feed the
>> new
>> one in as the old one comes out. When the old
one is completely out,
>> attach
>> the ends of the new one together and using the
special tool, fix the
>> connecting link.
>> There are places which will loan or rent you the
special tool needed to
>> finish off the connecting link --
>> The critical part is to make sure the chain stays
in contact with the
>> sprockets so everything turns in concert. Where
the chain engages the
>> injection pump drive sprocket the clearence is
tight enough to keep the
>> chain engaged - but you'll need to keep tension
on the chain so the chain
>> stays tight against the cam sprocket, etc. Not a
difficult job, but you
>> must be vigilent so the chain doesn;t jump a
link.
>> Sincerely,
>> Larry T ('74 911, '67 MGB, 91 300D Turbo)
> --
> Does the special tool "rivet" or "brad" the chains
patch link together?
>
> The only one I've done; on a '67 200D; had a
bicycle chain type patch link
> that snapped together without using a special
tool.
> GerryA
>
>
> ___
> http://www.striplin.net
> For new parts see official list sponsor:
http://www.buymbparts.com/
> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>
http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
>
___
http://www.striplin.net
For new parts see official list sponsor:
http://www.buymbparts.com/
For used par
Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
I will rent the tool for $30. You pay shipping both ways, and pay a deposit of $ 160. Total payment up front from you $ 200, money order. I return a money order for $ 160 when you return the tool in good shape. Richard --- hue wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > So, Look slike I would do this if I had access to the > tool The tool is like 189.00 and the timiming > chain is only 63.00 so geee. can't justify buying > the tool.. > > If, it's like an old bike chain, no problem, but it > looks like this big double chain may be a bit more and > need the tool? ANyone know where to dig one up in > Seattle? > > > Also, So... I swap this chain out and that re-synchs > the timeing, a quick valve clearence set and all is > well withthe engine? (seems strangly simple) > > These desiels are so much different then the gassers I > had before (this is my first deseil)... > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
Aluminum trays of various forms.
I forgot to mention the BIG (16-24 oz) hammer behind the link as an anvil,
as Jim mentioned. Use a 6-8 oz ball peen.
Yeah, if you know the principle of cold riveting is lots of blows with a
fairly light hammer, then you can do it with no problem. I have no
intention of spending 180-200 bucks for a special tool.
When did you get your 200D? When did you get rid of it.
I got my 62 190 D in 1971 and sold it in 1972. Bought my 200D in 72 and
still have it. Bought and junked or sold several others in the
meantime. On Dec 7, 1991 I bought the Hawaiian 200D in Hawaii Kai and then
we put the OM 616 in it in 98. It is my son's car now. My original 200D
is still the most stable car in all weather conditions I have ever
driven. But the SDL is sure nice!
At 02:31 PM 4/5/2006, you wrote:
Thanks for the encouragement. I've done quit a bit of riveting/peening too.
Maybe I will try it when the chains get up to 5 degrees. I'll bet you were
making a bowl out of a flat sheet of aluminum in Jr. High shop, weren't you?
(grin)
GerryA
- Original Message -
From: "Loren Faeth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> It rivets the head. Having grown up riveting knives on sickle bars and
> riveting other things, I rivet the new style with a small ball peen
> hammer. I am old enough that i spent Jr. High shop peening aluminum,
> thereby having a first hand knowledge of how the hammer gets its name. I
> guess there were people who were not careful enough to get the clip
> snapped
> in properly, so the master link has been officially banned. I did them
> for
> years and never had one come apart, but i always checked my work to be
> sure
> the clip was clipped correctly, since it is critical.
>
> Since you also worked on OM 621 engines, I am sure you can rivet the link
> without the special tool.
>
> Loren
>
>
> At 12:50 PM 4/5/2006, you wrote:
>
>>- Original Message -
>>From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > The procedures you;ve read are probably pretty descriptive. Basically,
>> > you
>> > attach the new chain to the old one, turn the engine slowly and feed
>> > the
>> > new
>> > one in as the old one comes out. When the old one is completely out,
>> > attach
>> > the ends of the new one together and using the special tool, fix the
>> > connecting link.
>> > There are places which will loan or rent you the special tool needed to
>> > finish off the connecting link --
>> > The critical part is to make sure the chain stays in contact with the
>> > sprockets so everything turns in concert. Where the chain engages the
>> > injection pump drive sprocket the clearence is tight enough to keep the
>> > chain engaged - but you'll need to keep tension on the chain so the
>> > chain
>> > stays tight against the cam sprocket, etc. Not a difficult job, but
>> > you
>> > must be vigilent so the chain doesn;t jump a link.
>> > Sincerely,
>> > Larry T ('74 911, '67 MGB, 91 300D Turbo)
>>--
>>Does the special tool "rivet" or "brad" the chains patch link together?
>>
>>The only one I've done; on a '67 200D; had a bicycle chain type patch link
>>that snapped together without using a special tool.
>>GerryA
___
http://www.striplin.net
For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
Thanks for the encouragement. I've done quit a bit of riveting/peening too.
Maybe I will try it when the chains get up to 5 degrees. I'll bet you were
making a bowl out of a flat sheet of aluminum in Jr. High shop, weren't you?
(grin)
GerryA
- Original Message -
From: "Loren Faeth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
It rivets the head. Having grown up riveting knives on sickle bars and
riveting other things, I rivet the new style with a small ball peen
hammer. I am old enough that i spent Jr. High shop peening aluminum,
thereby having a first hand knowledge of how the hammer gets its name. I
guess there were people who were not careful enough to get the clip
snapped
in properly, so the master link has been officially banned. I did them
for
years and never had one come apart, but i always checked my work to be
sure
the clip was clipped correctly, since it is critical.
Since you also worked on OM 621 engines, I am sure you can rivet the link
without the special tool.
Loren
At 12:50 PM 4/5/2006, you wrote:
- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> The procedures you;ve read are probably pretty descriptive. Basically,
> you
> attach the new chain to the old one, turn the engine slowly and feed
> the
> new
> one in as the old one comes out. When the old one is completely out,
> attach
> the ends of the new one together and using the special tool, fix the
> connecting link.
> There are places which will loan or rent you the special tool needed to
> finish off the connecting link --
> The critical part is to make sure the chain stays in contact with the
> sprockets so everything turns in concert. Where the chain engages the
> injection pump drive sprocket the clearence is tight enough to keep the
> chain engaged - but you'll need to keep tension on the chain so the
> chain
> stays tight against the cam sprocket, etc. Not a difficult job, but
> you
> must be vigilent so the chain doesn;t jump a link.
> Sincerely,
> Larry T ('74 911, '67 MGB, 91 300D Turbo)
--
Does the special tool "rivet" or "brad" the chains patch link together?
The only one I've done; on a '67 200D; had a bicycle chain type patch link
that snapped together without using a special tool.
GerryA
Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
Thanks Larry,
It might be risky trying to brad the stud with the chain in the car and
someone holding a buck bar, so it's probably best to rent the tool.
Performance Products catalog lists the tools sale price at $195.00 but I
couldn't find their rental price. Does Rusty rent the tool?
GerryA
- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
It forces the stud material over in a brad-like manner. I managed to do
it
without the special tool but the engine was completely disassembled during
the rebuild and I was able to put the chain in a vise where I could work
on
it. Then, I put the complete circular chain in place. I tried to get my
wife to take the chain to the dealer and pay them to use the special tool
to
brad the connnecting link over - didn't work - even though she explained
it
was needed for a *completely disassembled* engine they refused saying it
was
supposed to be installed *then* the connecting link was to be assembled.
Oh
well, I found a way in spite of them. ;-)
Sincerely,
Larry T ('74 911, '67 MGB, 91 300D Turbo)
A Blood Test for your oil - www.youroil.net
For Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
Weber Carb Stuff http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
http://members.rennlist.com/my_911/Index.htm For my Paint Job Info
- Original Message -
From: "archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
The procedures you;ve read are probably pretty descriptive. Basically,
you
attach the new chain to the old one, turn the engine slowly and feed the
new
one in as the old one comes out. When the old one is completely out,
attach
the ends of the new one together and using the special tool, fix the
connecting link.
There are places which will loan or rent you the special tool needed to
finish off the connecting link --
The critical part is to make sure the chain stays in contact with the
sprockets so everything turns in concert. Where the chain engages the
injection pump drive sprocket the clearence is tight enough to keep the
chain engaged - but you'll need to keep tension on the chain so the
chain
stays tight against the cam sprocket, etc. Not a difficult job, but you
must be vigilent so the chain doesn;t jump a link.
Sincerely,
Larry T ('74 911, '67 MGB, 91 300D Turbo)
--
Does the special tool "rivet" or "brad" the chains patch link together?
The only one I've done; on a '67 200D; had a bicycle chain type patch
link
that snapped together without using a special tool.
GerryA
___
http://www.striplin.net
For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
___
http://www.striplin.net
For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.5/301 - Release Date: 4/4/2006
Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
So, Look slike I would do this if I had access to the tool The tool is like 189.00 and the timiming chain is only 63.00 so geee. can't justify buying the tool.. Rent or borrow the tool, or peen it over with a hammer. (With another hammer behind it as an anvil.) I also have riveted sickle bar knives in my 'yoot', but we did have the little anvil fixture to make it easier. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
So, Look slike I would do this if I had access to the
tool The tool is like 189.00 and the timiming
chain is only 63.00 so geee. can't justify buying
the tool..
If, it's like an old bike chain, no problem, but it
looks like this big double chain may be a bit more and
need the tool? ANyone know where to dig one up in
Seattle?
Also, So... I swap this chain out and that re-synchs
the timeing, a quick valve clearence set and all is
well withthe engine? (seems strangly simple)
These desiels are so much different then the gassers I
had before (this is my first deseil)...
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> It forces the stud material over in a brad-like
> manner. I managed to do it
> without the special tool but the engine was
> completely disassembled during
> the rebuild and I was able to put the chain in a
> vise where I could work on
> it. Then, I put the complete circular chain in
> place. I tried to get my
> wife to take the chain to the dealer and pay them to
> use the special tool to
> brad the connnecting link over - didn't work - even
> though she explained it
> was needed for a *completely disassembled* engine
> they refused saying it was
> supposed to be installed *then* the connecting link
> was to be assembled. Oh
> well, I found a way in spite of them. ;-)
>
> Sincerely,
> Larry T ('74 911, '67 MGB, 91 300D Turbo)
> A Blood Test for your oil - www.youroil.net
> For Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
> Weber Carb Stuff
> http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
> http://members.rennlist.com/my_911/Index.htm For my
> Paint Job Info
> - Original Message -
> From: "archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 1:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
>
>
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> The procedures you;ve read are probably pretty
> descriptive. Basically,
> >> you
> >> attach the new chain to the old one, turn the
> engine slowly and feed the
> >> new
> >> one in as the old one comes out. When the old
> one is completely out,
> >> attach
> >> the ends of the new one together and using the
> special tool, fix the
> >> connecting link.
> >> There are places which will loan or rent you the
> special tool needed to
> >> finish off the connecting link --
> >> The critical part is to make sure the chain stays
> in contact with the
> >> sprockets so everything turns in concert. Where
> the chain engages the
> >> injection pump drive sprocket the clearence is
> tight enough to keep the
> >> chain engaged - but you'll need to keep tension
> on the chain so the chain
> >> stays tight against the cam sprocket, etc. Not a
> difficult job, but you
> >> must be vigilent so the chain doesn;t jump a
> link.
> >> Sincerely,
> >> Larry T ('74 911, '67 MGB, 91 300D Turbo)
> > --
> > Does the special tool "rivet" or "brad" the chains
> patch link together?
> >
> > The only one I've done; on a '67 200D; had a
> bicycle chain type patch link
> > that snapped together without using a special
> tool.
> > GerryA
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.striplin.net
> > For new parts see official list sponsor:
> http://www.buymbparts.com/
> > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >
>
http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
> >
>
>
>
> ___
> http://www.striplin.net
> For new parts see official list sponsor:
> http://www.buymbparts.com/
> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>
http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
>
__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
It rivets the head. Having grown up riveting knives on sickle bars and
riveting other things, I rivet the new style with a small ball peen
hammer. I am old enough that i spent Jr. High shop peening aluminum,
thereby having a first hand knowledge of how the hammer gets its name. I
guess there were people who were not careful enough to get the clip snapped
in properly, so the master link has been officially banned. I did them for
years and never had one come apart, but i always checked my work to be sure
the clip was clipped correctly, since it is critical.
Since you also worked on OM 621 engines, I am sure you can rivet the link
without the special tool.
Loren
At 12:50 PM 4/5/2006, you wrote:
- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> The procedures you;ve read are probably pretty descriptive. Basically,
> you
> attach the new chain to the old one, turn the engine slowly and feed the
> new
> one in as the old one comes out. When the old one is completely out,
> attach
> the ends of the new one together and using the special tool, fix the
> connecting link.
> There are places which will loan or rent you the special tool needed to
> finish off the connecting link --
> The critical part is to make sure the chain stays in contact with the
> sprockets so everything turns in concert. Where the chain engages the
> injection pump drive sprocket the clearence is tight enough to keep the
> chain engaged - but you'll need to keep tension on the chain so the chain
> stays tight against the cam sprocket, etc. Not a difficult job, but you
> must be vigilent so the chain doesn;t jump a link.
> Sincerely,
> Larry T ('74 911, '67 MGB, 91 300D Turbo)
--
Does the special tool "rivet" or "brad" the chains patch link together?
The only one I've done; on a '67 200D; had a bicycle chain type patch link
that snapped together without using a special tool.
GerryA
___
http://www.striplin.net
For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
It forces the stud material over in a brad-like manner. I managed to do it
without the special tool but the engine was completely disassembled during
the rebuild and I was able to put the chain in a vise where I could work on
it. Then, I put the complete circular chain in place. I tried to get my
wife to take the chain to the dealer and pay them to use the special tool to
brad the connnecting link over - didn't work - even though she explained it
was needed for a *completely disassembled* engine they refused saying it was
supposed to be installed *then* the connecting link was to be assembled. Oh
well, I found a way in spite of them. ;-)
Sincerely,
Larry T ('74 911, '67 MGB, 91 300D Turbo)
A Blood Test for your oil - www.youroil.net
For Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
Weber Carb Stuff http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
http://members.rennlist.com/my_911/Index.htm For my Paint Job Info
- Original Message -
From: "archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
The procedures you;ve read are probably pretty descriptive. Basically,
you
attach the new chain to the old one, turn the engine slowly and feed the
new
one in as the old one comes out. When the old one is completely out,
attach
the ends of the new one together and using the special tool, fix the
connecting link.
There are places which will loan or rent you the special tool needed to
finish off the connecting link --
The critical part is to make sure the chain stays in contact with the
sprockets so everything turns in concert. Where the chain engages the
injection pump drive sprocket the clearence is tight enough to keep the
chain engaged - but you'll need to keep tension on the chain so the chain
stays tight against the cam sprocket, etc. Not a difficult job, but you
must be vigilent so the chain doesn;t jump a link.
Sincerely,
Larry T ('74 911, '67 MGB, 91 300D Turbo)
--
Does the special tool "rivet" or "brad" the chains patch link together?
The only one I've done; on a '67 200D; had a bicycle chain type patch link
that snapped together without using a special tool.
GerryA
___
http://www.striplin.net
For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
The procedures you;ve read are probably pretty descriptive. Basically,
you
attach the new chain to the old one, turn the engine slowly and feed the
new
one in as the old one comes out. When the old one is completely out,
attach
the ends of the new one together and using the special tool, fix the
connecting link.
There are places which will loan or rent you the special tool needed to
finish off the connecting link --
The critical part is to make sure the chain stays in contact with the
sprockets so everything turns in concert. Where the chain engages the
injection pump drive sprocket the clearence is tight enough to keep the
chain engaged - but you'll need to keep tension on the chain so the chain
stays tight against the cam sprocket, etc. Not a difficult job, but you
must be vigilent so the chain doesn;t jump a link.
Sincerely,
Larry T ('74 911, '67 MGB, 91 300D Turbo)
--
Does the special tool "rivet" or "brad" the chains patch link together?
The only one I've done; on a '67 200D; had a bicycle chain type patch link
that snapped together without using a special tool.
GerryA
Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
Yep, if the chain breaks, it *will* destroy the engine. The pistons will
hit the valves and both will suffer and you'll need a valve job and probably
some new pistons - and depending on how hard they hit, the head may crack
and the rods may bend. But as Marshall suggested, you've "probably" got a
few thousand miles to consider how to proceed. You a gambling man? ;-)
The procedures you;ve read are probably pretty descriptive. Basically, you
attach the new chain to the old one, turn the engine slowly and feed the new
one in as the old one comes out. When the old oneis completely out, attach
the ends of the new one together and using the special tool, fix the
connecting link.
There are places which will loan or rent you the special tool needed to
finish off the connecting link --
The critical part is to make sure the chain stays in contact with the
sprockets so everything turns in concert. Where the chain engages the
injection pump drive sprocket the clearence is tight enough to keep the
chain engaged - but you'll need to keep tension on the chain so the chain
stays tight against the cam sprocket, etc. Not a difficult job, but you
must be vigilent so the chain doesn;t jump a link.
If the stretch is at 5 degrees, you;ll get improved mileage, a better
running engine and somewhat improved performance.
Good luck -
Sincerely,
Larry T ('74 911, '67 MGB, 91 300D Turbo)
A Blood Test for your oil - www.youroil.net
For Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
Weber Carb Stuff http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
http://members.rennlist.com/my_911/Index.htm For my Paint Job Info
- Original Message -
From: "hue wong" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
I belive it is the 61X.xx engine It's a 300t '82 the
Odo reads 129k (but I suspect it might have been
turned at the shady car lot I bought it from...)
I decided to set the vavles and button her up and do
the work after another few thousand miles or so (the
end of summer.) Teh sprocket looks good and for the
most part, everything "seems" really tight in
there...) the rest of the car has some issues that
need fixed first and I suspect my transmition
Still I've just read through three service manuals
about the procedure and it doesn't seem "to" hard to
change... A little grinding and a feed through the
gears withthe wire "trick" ...(almost like an old bike
chain removal)
Almost wondering if I should do it while I have
everything open and in the garage Wondering if it
will make THAT dramatic of a improvment... but I
don't want the thing flying apart on the road either.
I hear that pretty much kills the engine... and thisis
the one thing you want to keepup on on these old
engines...
Thanks for your advice!
--- Marshall Booth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
hue wong wrote:
> Hi all!
>
> Just had a chance to chek the reading and it looks
> like it's exactly 5 degrees off.
>
> (if the mesurement is: the mark on the cam guide
> collar and top notch on the bearing tower at 3'
oclock
> are aligned and are supposed to match/lineup with
the
> top post/nub/zero degrees on the bottom timing
gauge
> on teh crankcase housing?)
>
> And if this is bad, then How hard and what exactly
is
> the procedure to swap out the timing chain?
>
> Is is a timing chain swap, or do sprockets and
> tensioners and railguides, ect need to be swapped
out
> as well!
Well if you're talking about a 61x.9x engine with 5
degrees of stretch
you have time to plan and carry out the change when
it's convenient (if
you have a 60x engine you it's a little more
urgent). It can safely be
done any time in the next 10-20kmi. The system is
designed so that ONLY
the chain and tensioner (or at least it's spring)
need to be changed if
it's done in a timely manner. No need to change the
sprocket unless its
hooked or the guides unless they are DEEPLY grooved
(they are expected
to be changed when the engine is rebuilt from the
ground up - usually at
about 500kmi). Chains almost NEVER break until the
stretch approaches
9-10 degrees.
After you change the chain, the car WILL run and
usually start better!
Marshall
--
Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned
questions)
"der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
'87 300TD 182Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5
turbo 237kmi, '84
190D 2.2 229Kmi (retired)
___
http://www.striplin.net
For new parts see official list sponsor:
http://www.buymbparts.com/
For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
I belive it is the 61X.xx engine It's a 300t '82 the Odo reads 129k (but I suspect it might have been turned at the shady car lot I bought it from...) I decided to set the vavles and button her up and do the work after another few thousand miles or so (the end of summer.) Teh sprocket looks good and for the most part, everything "seems" really tight in there...) the rest of the car has some issues that need fixed first and I suspect my transmition Still I've just read through three service manuals about the procedure and it doesn't seem "to" hard to change... A little grinding and a feed through the gears withthe wire "trick" ...(almost like an old bike chain removal) Almost wondering if I should do it while I have everything open and in the garage Wondering if it will make THAT dramatic of a improvment... but I don't want the thing flying apart on the road either. I hear that pretty much kills the engine... and thisis the one thing you want to keepup on on these old engines... Thanks for your advice! --- Marshall Booth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > hue wong wrote: > > Hi all! > > > > Just had a chance to chek the reading and it looks > > like it's exactly 5 degrees off. > > > > (if the mesurement is: the mark on the cam guide > > collar and top notch on the bearing tower at 3' > oclock > > are aligned and are supposed to match/lineup with > the > > top post/nub/zero degrees on the bottom timing > gauge > > on teh crankcase housing?) > > > > And if this is bad, then How hard and what exactly > is > > the procedure to swap out the timing chain? > > > > Is is a timing chain swap, or do sprockets and > > tensioners and railguides, ect need to be swapped > out > > as well! > > Well if you're talking about a 61x.9x engine with 5 > degrees of stretch > you have time to plan and carry out the change when > it's convenient (if > you have a 60x engine you it's a little more > urgent). It can safely be > done any time in the next 10-20kmi. The system is > designed so that ONLY > the chain and tensioner (or at least it's spring) > need to be changed if > it's done in a timely manner. No need to change the > sprocket unless its > hooked or the guides unless they are DEEPLY grooved > (they are expected > to be changed when the engine is rebuilt from the > ground up - usually at > about 500kmi). Chains almost NEVER break until the > stretch approaches > 9-10 degrees. > > After you change the chain, the car WILL run and > usually start better! > > Marshall > -- > Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned > questions) >"der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] > '87 300TD 182Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 > turbo 237kmi, '84 > 190D 2.2 229Kmi (retired) > > ___ > http://www.striplin.net > For new parts see official list sponsor: > http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
hue wong wrote: Hi all! Just had a chance to chek the reading and it looks like it's exactly 5 degrees off. (if the mesurement is: the mark on the cam guide collar and top notch on the bearing tower at 3' oclock are aligned and are supposed to match/lineup with the top post/nub/zero degrees on the bottom timing gauge on teh crankcase housing?) And if this is bad, then How hard and what exactly is the procedure to swap out the timing chain? Is is a timing chain swap, or do sprockets and tensioners and railguides, ect need to be swapped out as well! Well if you're talking about a 61x.9x engine with 5 degrees of stretch you have time to plan and carry out the change when it's convenient (if you have a 60x engine you it's a little more urgent). It can safely be done any time in the next 10-20kmi. The system is designed so that ONLY the chain and tensioner (or at least it's spring) need to be changed if it's done in a timely manner. No need to change the sprocket unless its hooked or the guides unless they are DEEPLY grooved (they are expected to be changed when the engine is rebuilt from the ground up - usually at about 500kmi). Chains almost NEVER break until the stretch approaches 9-10 degrees. After you change the chain, the car WILL run and usually start better! Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi (retired)
Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
Hi all! Just had a chance to chek the reading and it looks like it's exactly 5 degrees off. (if the mesurement is: the mark on the cam guide collar and top notch on the bearing tower at 3' oclock are aligned and are supposed to match/lineup with the top post/nub/zero degrees on the bottom timing gauge on teh crankcase housing?) And if this is bad, then How hard and what exactly is the procedure to swap out the timing chain? Is is a timing chain swap, or do sprockets and tensioners and railguides, ect need to be swapped out as well! (oh how I hate these simple projects that get big! zoiks!) Thanks is advance for any info... --- Jim Cathey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Can anyone point me in the right direction of the > > procedure to check the timing chain "stretch"? > > Line up the marks that are on the collar of the > cam gear and the back of the front cam bearing tower > at the 3 o'clock position when you're standing in > front. > Read the degrees of stretch off of the timing scale > on > the damper. Rotate the engine only in the correct > direction, > either with the crank nut or the power steering nut. > The > latter, if it works for you, is usually considerably > easier > to access. Anything above 5 degrees means it's > probably time > to change it out. Double that and it's time to not > start > the engine again before you fix it! > > -- Jim > > > ___ > http://www.striplin.net > For new parts see official list sponsor: > http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
Up in ballard in seattle... I tell ya, the more I look at this, the more I think that it might be fine. Except for the movment int he chain, everything looks super tight. There is no slop in the sprket, the chain seems tight. I'll line it up in the morning based on some new suggestions from the list and messure the stretch... Frankly the more I look at the cam and the wear on the lobes, (which is nill) I wonde rif maybe this unit hasn't had a valve job before and maybe the panzer like clack was from the injectors! --- Rick Knoble <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > - Original Message - > From: "hue wong" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 6:14 PM > Subject: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues > > Where are you located Hue? Perhaps one of the more > mechanicaly inclined > listers is close by and can lend some insight and > maybe a hand. > Rick Knoble > '85 300 CD > '87 190 DT > > ___ > http://www.striplin.net > For new parts see official list sponsor: > http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
- Original Message - From: "hue wong" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 6:14 PM Subject: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues Where are you located Hue? Perhaps one of the more mechanicaly inclined listers is close by and can lend some insight and maybe a hand. Rick Knoble '85 300 CD '87 190 DT
Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
The chain tensioner is oil pressure driven. With the engine off, tension will only be supplied by the fairly weak spring inside the tensioner and residual, non pressurized oil. Not exactly. The chain tensioner is oil-filled, and has a one-way check valve. The spring provides the take-up pressure and the oil check valve prevents it from ever going backwards. At least, when it's working correctly. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
The chain tensioner is oil pressure driven. With the engine off, tension will only be supplied by the fairly weak spring inside the tensioner and residual, non pressurized oil. If you can push the long, curved rail on the passenger side back easily, the tensioner is worn and needs to be replaced. Easy on a 603, a pain on the 617. Peter
[MBZ] 300td timing chain issues
So I am into my engine with the spring overhaul and am suspicious now of my timing chain. Seems to have about 1/4'-ish inch of travel when I push my thumb against it in the middle of the two timing gears (it does srping back nicely) Anyhow, none of the three mcparts manuals I have, go into the process of actually testing this. Can anyone point me in the right direction of the procedure to check the timing chain "stretch"? I want to make sure there is a problem, before I try and replace it. Also, is it a tough job to swap a timing chain and tensioner out? Seems almost like it would be Thanks in advance! __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
