subject:"\[MBZ\] Cessna Jet\-A engine"

Re: [MBZ] Cessna Jet-A engine

2012-10-05 Thread G Mann

True... but false.

Seems to be a lasting urban myth that the glow plug remains heated after
start cycle and engine warms to operational temp.

Very old diesel engines used a blow torch.. or other means to get preheat
into the cylinder to assist ignition for starting later.. the electric
glow plug does the same thing. Once engine temp at the combustion chamber
has risen to the point that compression combustion can be sustained such
devices are no longer required.

Many things can be used to raise combustion temperatures to start a
diesel... One is to use gasoline.. in early large diesels.. the start cycle
used gasoline on one or two cylinders to start the engine and crank the
other cylinders which raised combustion temperatures in successive power
strokes until the cylinders were all hitting... then the start cylinders
were switched to diesel... Some used blow torches... or coal fires and the
heat was drawn into the cylinders to warm them up from dead cold... but
in all cases.. once the engine ran on it's own... on diesel... the external
heat was removed.

Same for glow plugs...

Mercedes glow plug system works on the same principle... glow to start..
even then the glow plugs cycle on and off to keep from overheating... and
continue for a time until the temp sensor [check your wiring diagram for
what does what] tells the glow circuit the engine has reached a sustainable
operation temperature...

On a really cold morning... with a bad glow system.. a diesel is a B*#@#ch
to start.. I've used heat guns, hair dryers, and other warm air tricks,
like a rubber hose from the exhaust of a gas engine to pump into the intake
of one to get a start Ether.. the gas of death should only be used by
it's self.. and sparingly. Its burn point is very low compared to
diesel... and a shot will get a burn started... which then starts the
engine burning diesel

Or in the case of model airplane engine castor oil and alcohol serves
the same purpose.. with a working glow plug... somethings..

FWIW,
Grant...

On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 6:18 PM, Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net wrote:

engines - they rely on the glow plugs staying red hot from the previous
combustion cycle for ignition.

I would say no, they are not CI. Proof? Try to start one
without a battery on the GP! Compression ain't enough.

GP engines are very old. Many tractor-type engines of
100 years ago were that way. Heated with blowtorch, etc.

-- Jim

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Re: [MBZ] Cessna Jet-A engine

2012-10-05 Thread Craig

On Thu, 4 Oct 2012 23:49:07 -0700 G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote:

 Ether.. the gas of death should only be used by it's [sic] self.. and
 sparingly.  Its burn point is very low compared to diesel... and a shot
 will get a burn started... which then starts the engine burning diesel

And don't use ether on indirect-injection engines (like our MB automotive
diesels), you can crack the prechamber.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Cessna Jet-A engine

2012-10-05 Thread Dieselhead


True... but false.

Seems to be a lasting urban myth that the glow plug remains heated after
start cycle and engine warms to operational temp.

Very old diesel engines used a blow torch.. or other means to get preheat
into the cylinder to assist ignition for starting later.. the electric
glow plug does the same thing. Once engine temp at the combustion chamber
has risen to the point that compression combustion can be sustained such
devices are no longer required.


The Page oil engine is very interesting.  It was used in early 
draglines 100 years ago  If I had to guess, I'd think many were used 
for the Panama canal project.   They never called at a Diesel, 
probably due to patents owned by Diesel


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Re: [MBZ] Cessna Jet-A engine

2012-10-04 Thread G Mann

Diesel:  A Compression Ignition Engine. Regardless of the fuel used.

Schedule 52 Diesel, which is the Diesel fuel sold at pumps for cars and
trucks, is very nearly the same specification as Schedule 54 Diesel, which
is sold as Jet A.. the main difference between the two schedules is
that Jet A Diesel fuel is adjusted for gel point, cloud point, and
lubrication elements.

Look it up. You can read all the specifications and make your own
conclusions.
I routinely run Schedule 54 Jet A fuel in my Diesel vehicles because I
collect the preflight sump samples and clean them of water residue... I add
lubricant to the fuel and run it.. works just fine. [New EPA rules require
preflight sump drain samples to be disposed of properly, and treated as
HAZMAT   so I provide disposal services for same ]

FWIW,

Grant...

On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 4:03 PM, relng...@aol.com wrote:

  ...It does cost that much more, but it's a turbo diesel..
 
 It is not a turbo-diesel and won't run on diesel.

 RLE

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Re: [MBZ] Cessna Jet-A engine

2012-10-04 Thread Rich Thomas


And of course you pay unkie your road taxes...

--R

On 10/4/12 11:12 AM, G Mann wrote:

Diesel:  A Compression Ignition Engine. Regardless of the fuel used.

Schedule 52 Diesel, which is the Diesel fuel sold at pumps for cars and
trucks, is very nearly the same specification as Schedule 54 Diesel, which
is sold as Jet A.. the main difference between the two schedules is
that Jet A Diesel fuel is adjusted for gel point, cloud point, and
lubrication elements.

Look it up. You can read all the specifications and make your own
conclusions.
I routinely run Schedule 54 Jet A fuel in my Diesel vehicles because I
collect the preflight sump samples and clean them of water residue... I add
lubricant to the fuel and run it.. works just fine. [New EPA rules require
preflight sump drain samples to be disposed of properly, and treated as
HAZMAT   so I provide disposal services for same ]

FWIW,

Grant...

On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 4:03 PM, relng...@aol.com wrote:


...It does cost that much more, but it's a turbo diesel..


It is not a turbo-diesel and won't run on diesel.

RLE

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Re: [MBZ] Cessna Jet-A engine

2012-10-04 Thread G Mann

Just as soon as they are legally due. :))

Grant...

On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 8:51 AM, Rich Thomas
richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote:

And of course you pay unkie your road taxes...

--R

On 10/4/12 11:12 AM, G Mann wrote:

Diesel: A Compression Ignition Engine. Regardless of the fuel used.

Schedule 52 Diesel, which is the Diesel fuel sold at pumps for cars and
trucks, is very nearly the same specification as Schedule 54 Diesel, which
is sold as Jet A.. the main difference between the two schedules is
that Jet A Diesel fuel is adjusted for gel point, cloud point, and
lubrication elements.

Look it up. You can read all the specifications and make your own
conclusions.
I routinely run Schedule 54 Jet A fuel in my Diesel vehicles because I
collect the preflight sump samples and clean them of water residue... I
add
lubricant to the fuel and run it.. works just fine. [New EPA rules require
preflight sump drain samples to be disposed of properly, and treated as
HAZMAT so I provide disposal services for same ]

FWIW,

Grant...

On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 4:03 PM, relng...@aol.com wrote:

...It does cost that much more, but it's a turbo diesel..

It is not a turbo-diesel and won't run on diesel.

RLE