Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels
Fmiser wrote: Of course, I want a diesel. I'd prefer a Cummins, but I'm not fond of the Dodge body or transmission. Jim Cathey wrote: The NV4500 you don't like? Well, actually the NV4500 is fine. But I thought Dodge didn't get those until late '90s - like the same time as the 24v engine. Which means it's to new (read expensive) for my budget for beater farm truck duty. I think I neglected to mention part of my motivation is my 2-door doesn't have enough passenger space, so 4-door is high on the list of requirements. And I don't think Dodge made those long enough ago. What about the normally aspirated? Dad's (92?) is great. Not a powerhouse, but just fine. He always said it was a bit 'off' upshifting, but I don't think he wrapped it out far enough. The one time I drove it, without him along, I treated it like the 200D and wound it out before shifting. Gears/rpm's mated perfectly when I did that. Nice truck. Sounds like it would fit my needs fine. Now to find a 4-door, 4-wheel drive, 1-ton, single wheel under my price cap. GM 6.2 is also on the list. What's to watch out for? Cavitation in the cooling system that holes the block. Ford's MUST have had their cooling system maintained properly, or the engine could be trash, or nearly so. The insidious invisible killer. Hmmm, that's going to be hard to spot on a driveway inspection, isn't it? Even if I test the coolant and the necessary additives are present that doesn't mean they have been there all along. Thanks for the report. :) -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels
Fmiser wrote: I'm dreaming of replacing my farm truck. Of course, I want a diesel. I'd prefer a Cummins, but I'm not fond of the Dodge body or transmission. So I'm looking further - but I don't know much about the Fords. A '92 will be a non-turbo, right? I have heard the 7.3 turbo is a pretty good engine. What about the normally aspirated? What's to watch out for? PSD 7.3 was, IIRC, from 1994 1/2 to early 2003. You probably don't want anything else. You don't want 6.9 IDI, 7.3 IDI, or 7.3 turbo IDI unless diesel drops below $2 a gallon. And you don't want the early 6.0 PSD that replaced the 7.3 PSD, nor do you want to pay the purchase price for something even newer than that. A 7.3 PSD with 3.73 gears can get 10-16mpg, depending on what you're towing and how fast. Trailerless with the cruise set at 55mph, 24mpg. Maybe 18mpg at 75mph if you're lucky. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels
I have a 2002 ford 7.3 diesel and it has been a great truck and have driven about (just over 200,000 miles). The body is well put together still does not rattle, doors open shut etc. It has had a water pump, changed out the tie rod ends, switch for the mirrors and that is about it with the exception of brakes, tires, oil changes, and other maintenance items. I bought it new in 2002. It does get about 16 mpg maybe 20 on highway. I have never gotten 24 miles from one gallon. However, I don't think I ever drive 55 on the highway for very long. I have a friend who has a dodge, he has less miles and has had a lot of problems with not the engine but about everything else. I just drove the over 20 mile truck to Illinois and back to Texas this weekend. Got about 16-17mpg going about 70-75 mph and it ran great and I love the truck. BTW, yes air works still, and not for sale. conclusion very well made truck, not great mileage but not bad for a vehicle that weighs about 6500 lbs. -Original Message- From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wed, Apr 20, 2011 6:45 am Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels Fmiser wrote: I'm dreaming of replacing my farm truck. Of course, I want a diesel. I'd prefer a Cummins, but I'm not fond of the Dodge body or transmission. So I'm looking further - but I don't know much about the Fords. A '92 will be a non-turbo, right? I have heard the 7.3 turbo is a pretty good engine. What about the normally aspirated? What's to watch out for? PSD 7.3 was, IIRC, from 1994 1/2 to early 2003. You probably don't want anything else. You don't want 6.9 IDI, 7.3 IDI, or 7.3 turbo IDI unless diesel drops below $2 a gallon. And you don't want the early 6.0 PSD that replaced the 7.3 PSD, nor do you want to pay the purchase price for something even newer than that. A 7.3 PSD with 3.73 gears can get 10-16mpg, depending on what you're towing and how fast. Trailerless with the cruise set at 55mph, 24mpg. Maybe 18mpg at 75mph if you're lucky. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels
drcscru...@aol.com wrote: It does get about 16 mpg maybe 20 on highway. I have never gotten 24 miles from one gallon. However, I don't think I ever drive 55 on the highway for very long. Huge gains are available below 2000rpm. Set the tach at 1600-1700 for a few hundred miles in one day and you'll see something between 22 and 26 mpg. (assuming SRW and highway tread tires with lots of pressure) Have seen 13-14mpg hauling 12,000 lb horse trailer at 55mph with a 2001 6sp. (I believe the 4sp has a slightly taller top gear than the 6sp, but it's hard to keep the torque converter locked while hauling a big load) Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels
I have to disagree about the IDI Ford diesels. I have several and,no, they are not the best out there but they tow good enough, get decent mpg and are reliable as an old Timex watch. My 86 E350 conversion van gets 15mpg towing a 36 foot tagalong camper IF you keep it below 60mph. Go faster and you will lose a lot. My 89 F350 4x4 gets 17mpg running on 35 tires with empty trailer and 15 with a car on at 65-70mph. Add a Banks turbo kit to either 6.9 or 7.3 idi and it will make more, and more reliable, power than the early 7.3 Powerstroke. A 25-29% mpg increase is pretty easy to take as well. Like was said before, mpg is directly related to engine rpm. Most of the old F series trucks were geared to where the diesel was turning 2300 or so at highway speeds, run some taller tires to get the revs down and be patient and you can expect reasonable economy. Mike On Apr 20, 2011 7:45 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Fmiser wrote: I'm dreaming of replacing my farm truck. Of course, I want a diesel. I'd prefer a Cummins, but I'm not fond of the Dodge body or transmission. So I'm looking further - but I don't know much about the Fords. A '92 will be a non-turbo, right? I have heard the 7.3 turbo is a pretty good engine. What about the normally aspirated? What's to watch out for? PSD 7.3 was, IIRC, from 1994 1/2 to early 2003. You probably don't want anything else. You don't want 6.9 IDI, 7.3 IDI, or 7.3 turbo IDI unless diesel drops below $2 a gallon. And you don't want the early 6.0 PSD that replaced the 7.3 PSD, nor do you want to pay the purchase price for something even newer than that. A 7.3 PSD with 3.73 gears can get 10-16mpg, depending on what you're towing and how fast. Trailerless with the cruise set at 55mph, 24mpg. Maybe 18mpg at 75mph if you're lucky. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels
Well, actually the NV4500 is fine. But I thought Dodge didn't get those until late '90s - like the same time as the 24v engine. Which means it's to new (read expensive) for my budget for beater farm truck duty. My 97 has the NV4500. 12V, 2-doors, extended cab. It's the NV5600 that came along much later. More rowing, but better for heavy loads. (The 3-4 gap not quite as far.) Not sure when they swapped out the Getrag for the NV. I think I neglected to mention part of my motivation is my 2-door doesn't have enough passenger space, so 4-door is high on the list of requirements. And I don't think Dodge made those long enough ago. We have plenty of space, with only two doors. Treat it like a coupe. In 98 you could get the little suicide doors, same time as the 24V engine came in. (Rotary IP rather than the bombproof inline of the last 12V's.) Hmmm, that's going to be hard to spot on a driveway inspection, isn't it? Even if I test the coolant and the necessary additives are present that doesn't mean they have been there all along. Yup, it's a crapshoot. Continuous service records from a Ford dealership are usually a good sign. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels
Michael Canfield wrote: I have to disagree about the IDI Ford diesels. I have several and,no, they are not the best out there but they tow good enough, get decent mpg and are reliable as an old Timex watch. My 86 E350 conversion van gets 15mpg towing a 36 foot tagalong camper IF you keep it below 60mph. Go faster and you will lose a lot. My 89 F350 4x4 gets 17mpg running on 35 tires with empty trailer and 15 with a car on at 65-70mph. Maybe my thinking is colored by only having experience with a 1980s F250, C6 tranny, converted to dual rear wheels, that never saw more than 9mpg empty and had a top speed (governor limited) of around 65mph. Perhaps it suffered from lack of locking torque converter and too short a final drive ratio? Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels
A 7.3 PSD with 3.73 gears can get 10-16mpg, depending on what you're towing and how fast. Trailerless with the cruise set at 55mph, 24mpg. Maybe 18mpg at 75mph if you're lucky. Can get 25MPG in my Dodge any time I want, any time I want to keep it at 1800 RPM and on the stock tires. That's about 58 MPH. Best-ever was 26.2 MPG. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels
Maybe. I bet that truck was turning 3200+ at 65. I have the Ford idi's, a Chevy crew cab with a gutless 6.2(that will pull 25mpg@55mph.) and an 89 Dodge Cummins 2wd. Putting the Cummins in the Chevy this summer. With od and a 3.08 rear should pull over 25 empty @65 or so. Mike On Apr 20, 2011 10:32 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels
Fmiser wrote: I'm dreaming of replacing my farm truck. So I'm looking further - but I don't know much about the Fords. A '92 will be a non-turbo, right? I have heard the 7.3 turbo is a pretty good engine. What about the normally aspirated? What's to watch out for? Mitch Haley wrote: PSD 7.3 was, IIRC, from 1994 1/2 to early 2003. You probably don't want anything else. You don't want 6.9 IDI, 7.3 IDI, or 7.3 turbo IDI unless diesel drops below $2 a gallon. And you don't want the early 6.0 PSD that replaced the 7.3 PSD, nor do you want to pay the purchase price for something even newer than that. How bad is the fuel consumption of the IDI 7.3? Manual transmission. This is not for a long distance hauler, though it may make some trips. The truck it would be replacing gets about 10 mpg with gasoline. I fill it up every month or two, typically. --Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels
Michael Canfield wrote: I have to disagree about the IDI Ford diesels. I have several and,no, they are not the best out there but they tow good enough, get decent mpg and are reliable as an old Timex watch. My 86 E350 conversion van gets 15mpg towing a 36 foot tagalong camper IF you keep it below 60mph. Go faster and you will lose a lot. My 89 F350 4x4 gets 17mpg running on 35 tires with empty trailer and 15 with a car on at 65-70mph. Even with the price difference between gasoline and diesel, that would be cheaper to run than the truck I have. Add a Banks turbo kit to either 6.9 or 7.3 idi and it will make more, and more reliable, power than the early 7.3 Powerstroke. A 25-29% mpg increase is pretty easy to take as well. Like was said before, mpg is directly related to engine rpm. Most of the old F series trucks were geared to where the diesel was turning 2300 or so at highway speeds, run some taller tires to get the revs down and be patient and you can expect reasonable economy. It's looks to me like an IDI Ford or a GM 6.2 will do what I need. Thanks for the info. :) Now to find one -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels
Fmiser wrote: I think I neglected to mention part of my motivation is my 2-door doesn't have enough passenger space, so 4-door is high on the list of requirements. And I don't think Dodge made those long enough ago. Jim Cathey wrote: We have plenty of space, with only two doors. Treat it like a coupe. Plenty of space for six? I haven't actually tried putting a carseat in the back of an extended/plus/club cab, but I don't think it would work well. In 98 you could get the little suicide doors, same time as the 24V engine came in. (Rotary IP rather than the bombproof inline of the last 12V's.) And the price goes up too. I'll stick with the 12V Cummins. If I get one at all. :) Hmmm, that's going to be hard to spot on a driveway inspection, isn't it? Even if I test the coolant and the necessary additives are present that doesn't mean they have been there all along. Yup, it's a crapshoot. Continuous service records from a Ford dealership are usually a good sign. On a $3,000 beater farm truck. What are the chances of _that_!? *sigh* -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels
On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 1:43 AM, Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net wrote: Cavitation in the cooling system that holes the block. Ford's MUST have had their cooling system maintained properly, or the engine could be trash, or nearly so. The insidious invisible killer. -- Jim This is such a known problem, I've seen a company that sells coolant system bypass filtration to help combat it, and I don't even read Ford specific publications. EdB -- Das beste oder nichts. - *Gottlieb Daimler* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels
On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 2:35 AM, Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com wrote: Well, actually the NV4500 is fine. But I thought Dodge didn't get those until late '90s - like the same time as the 24v engine. Which means it's to new (read expensive) for my budget for beater farm truck duty. I think I neglected to mention part of my motivation is my 2-door doesn't have enough passenger space, so 4-door is high on the list of requirements. And I don't think Dodge made those long enough ago. Actually, you probably aren't thinking old enough. Get an old square body Ram crew. Cummins was first offered as an option in 1989. Which I think was also the last year of the crew cab until 2002. However, while the second gen Ram (1994 - early 2002) didn't offer a proper crew cab, they were available with four doors. The extended cab section is quite large, and the doors were reverse hinged to be opened when the main doors were opened as well. Personally, if I was truck shopping, a Ram is what I'd be looking for. But, opinions differ obviously. EdB -- Das beste oder nichts. - *Gottlieb Daimler* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels
It's a design flaw, and should have required a recall and engine replacement with something that didn't erode. The cylinder walls are too thin, and flex too much, and that combined with the fixed injection timing, direct injection, and horrible knocking transmits enough sound energy through the cylinder walls to cause sonic cavitation. This is a known problem with diesel engines, or at least has been for 20 or more years, and for Ford to sell an engine prone to it that only special coolant can save is to sell defective products. While sonic cavitation is something all diesels are prone to, it can be designed out or prevented, mostly by using thick enough cylinder walls and enough support webbing on the inside of the engine to dampen the vibrations enough to avoid severe cavitation on the surface of the cylinder wall. Liners help quite a bit here, but they must be DRY liners, not wet ones. Indirect timed injection gives more hp, less fuel consumption, less smoke, and complete immunity to sonic cavitation erosion, as the shock wave from the flame front stays in the pre-chamber and doesn't hit the cylinder walls dead on. The cost is more weight, but I'd not think that was a problem -- the rest of the truck is usually grossly oversized and hulking, it wouldn't be hard to reduce the height a couple feet and put the saved weight into an engine that does not eat itself. Peter, who is made nervous by pick up truck bumpers higher than the windowsill of his 300D -Original Message- From: Ed Booher edboo...@gmail.com Sent: Apr 20, 2011 1:01 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 1:43 AM, Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net wrote: Cavitation in the cooling system that holes the block. Ford's MUST have had their cooling system maintained properly, or the engine could be trash, or nearly so. The insidious invisible killer. -- Jim This is such a known problem, I've seen a company that sells coolant system bypass filtration to help combat it, and I don't even read Ford specific publications. EdB -- Das beste oder nichts. - *Gottlieb Daimler* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels
I have a '97 F-250HD crew cab with the turbo 7.3, 5-speed manual trans, factory towing package and 4.11 rear end. I get 16-18 mpg on the road without a tow. I tow a 29' Alpenlite 5th. Wheel with it. It pulls like a dream with close to 20,000 lbs. total weight (truck + trailer). While towing the Alpenlite I get 10-12 mpg. The coolant-cavitation issue is really no big deal. You test-strip the coolant annually to check the chemical level and add if necessary. I have not had to add any in the 4 years I have owned the truck. Having owned a 1/2 ton Suburban, I would rule out a 1/2 ton for anything but very light duty. Between that and the F250 I had an '85 F350 crew cab with the NA 6.9 diesel. Both the 250 and 350 handle very well towing, but the engines really call for a turbo. One issue I discovered with the manual trans is that the under-dash part of the clutch linkage is prone to excessive wear. This causes the clutch safety switch not to allow the engine to start and rough shifting. Local trans shop told me I needed a new clutch (about $2K), but my indy mechanic got me back to normal for about $100 replacing the worn linkage part. Greg -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Fmiser Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 9:13 PM To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: [MBZ] Ford diesels I'm dreaming of replacing my farm truck. Of course, I want a diesel. I'd prefer a Cummins, but I'm not fond of the Dodge body or transmission. So I'm looking further - but I don't know much about the Fords. A '92 will be a non-turbo, right? I have heard the 7.3 turbo is a pretty good engine. What about the normally aspirated? What's to watch out for? I'm after a sturdy work truck, not a high speed machine. I will expect it to pull 7000 lbs of trailer - but I don't need it to outrun my tired 240 when loaded. :) So what's the word on these old engines? Trouble - or a good deal? -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels
What is IDI ford? Are you referring to Prechamber (indirect injection) as opposed to direct injection? Is this the International engine vs the frod engine that replaced the International engines? Michael Canfield wrote: I have to disagree about the IDI Ford diesels. I have several and,no, they are not the best out there but they tow good enough, get decent mpg and are reliable as an old Timex watch. My 86 E350 conversion van gets 15mpg towing a 36 foot tagalong camper IF you keep it below 60mph. Go faster and you will lose a lot. My 89 F350 4x4 gets 17mpg running on 35 tires with empty trailer and 15 with a car on at 65-70mph. Even with the price difference between gasoline and diesel, that would be cheaper to run than the truck I have. Add a Banks turbo kit to either 6.9 or 7.3 idi and it will make more, and more reliable, power than the early 7.3 Powerstroke. A 25-29% mpg increase is pretty easy to take as well. Like was said before, mpg is directly related to engine rpm. Most of the old F series trucks were geared to where the diesel was turning 2300 or so at highway speeds, run some taller tires to get the revs down and be patient and you can expect reasonable economy. It's looks to me like an IDI Ford or a GM 6.2 will do what I need. Thanks for the info. :) Now to find one -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels
Here's some selling a 12v Cummins cheap. Not a quad-cab tho. http://bloomington.craigslist.org/cto/2336479234.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels
Dieselhead wrote: What is IDI ford? Are you referring to Prechamber (indirect injection) as opposed to direct injection? Is this the International engine vs the frod engine that replaced the International engines? They were all made by IH, at least up through 2005 or whenever they dropped the 6.0L PSD. IDI is indeed a reference to having prechambers. The 6.9 and 7.3 were pretty much the same engine AFAIK until the direct injection PSD came along late in the 1994 model year. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels
As I recall the later International 7.3s were turbocharged as an afterthought to be competitive in the market, because Ford's own PSD was late getting to market. On Wed, 20 Apr 2011 16:45 -0400, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Dieselhead wrote: What is IDI ford? Are you referring to Prechamber (indirect injection) as opposed to direct injection? Is this the International engine vs the frod engine that replaced the International engines? They were all made by IH, at least up through 2005 or whenever they dropped the 6.0L PSD. IDI is indeed a reference to having prechambers. The 6.9 and 7.3 were pretty much the same engine AFAIK until the direct injection PSD came along late in the 1994 model year. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels
Dieselhead wrote: What is IDI ford? InDirect Injection. Are you referring to Prechamber (indirect injection) as opposed to direct injection? Is this the International engine vs the frod engine that replaced the International engines? The 7.3 PowerStroke was built by International and is nearly the same thing as the International T444. --Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels
Ed Booher wrote: Actually, you probably aren't thinking old enough. Get an old square body Ram crew. Cummins was first offered as an option in 1989. Which I think was also the last year of the crew cab until 2002. I thought the crew cab production quit before the Cummins showed up. So maybe one year overlap - huh? However, while the second gen Ram (1994 - early 2002) didn't offer a proper crew cab, they were available with four doors. The extended cab section is quite large, and the doors were reverse hinged to be opened when the main doors were opened as well. Big enough in the back for car seats? --Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels
Peter, You may want to rethink what you just said. Fixed injection timing? No. Direct injection? Not with an IDI engine. That is the second paragraph. Then the third paragraph seems to support the Tinkernational/Ford IDI for it's resistance to cavitation, better power and better economy. I am a bit lost as to what you really mean. Mike On Apr 20, 2011 2:14 PM, Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net wrote: It's a design flaw, and should have required a recall and engine replacement with something that didn't erode. The cylinder walls are too thin, and flex too much, and that combined with the fixed injection timing, direct injection, and horrible knocking transmits enough sound energy through the cylinder walls to cause sonic cavitation. This is a known problem with diesel engines, or at least has been for 20 or more years, and for Ford to sell an engine prone to it that only special coolant can save is to sell defective products. While sonic cavitation is something all diesels are prone to, it can be designed out or prevented, mostly by using thick enough cylinder walls and enough support webbing on the inside of the engine to dampen the vibrations enough to avoid severe cavitation on the surface of the cylinder wall. Liners help quite a bit here, but they must be DRY liners, not wet ones. Indirect timed injection gives more hp, less fuel consumption, less smoke, and complete immunity to sonic cavitation erosion, as the shock wave from the flame front stays in the pre-chamber and doesn't hit the cylinder walls dead on. The cost is more weight, but I'd not think that was a problem -- the rest of the truck is usually grossly oversized and hulking, it wouldn't be hard to reduce the height a couple feet and put the saved weight into an engine that does not eat itself. Peter, who is made nervous by pick up truck bumpers higher than the windowsill of his 300D -Original Message- From: Ed Booher edboo...@gmail.com Sent: Apr 20, 2011 1:01 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 1:43 AM, Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net wrote: Cavitation in the cooling system that holes the block. Ford's MUST have had their cooling system maintained properly, or the engine could be trash, or nearly so. The insidious invisible killer. -- Jim This is such a known problem, I've seen a company that sells coolant system bypass filtration to help combat it, and I don't even read Ford specific publications. EdB -- Das beste oder nichts. - *Gottlieb Daimler* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels
At some point IH became Navistar. They continued to make the Ford diesels through the 7.3 PSD. Greg -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Mitch Haley Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 1:45 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels Dieselhead wrote: What is IDI ford? Are you referring to Prechamber (indirect injection) as opposed to direct injection? Is this the International engine vs the frod engine that replaced the International engines? They were all made by IH, at least up through 2005 or whenever they dropped the 6.0L PSD. IDI is indeed a reference to having prechambers. The 6.9 and 7.3 were pretty much the same engine AFAIK until the direct injection PSD came along late in the 1994 model year. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels
And which one is the desirable, trouble-free one? Bob R On Apr 20, 2011 3:51 PM, Greg Fiorentino gf...@dslnorthwest.net wrote: At some point IH became Navistar. They continued to make the Ford diesels through the 7.3 PSD. Greg -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Mitch Haley Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 1:45 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels Dieselhead wrote: What is IDI ford? Are you referring to Prechamber (indirect injection) as opposed to direct injection? Is this the International engine vs the frod engine that replaced the International engines? They were all made by IH, at least up through 2005 or whenever they dropped the 6.0L PSD. IDI is indeed a reference to having prechambers. The 6.9 and 7.3 were pretty much the same engine AFAIK until the direct injection PSD came along late in the 1994 model year. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels
Greg Fiorentino wrote: At some point IH became Navistar. They continued to make the Ford diesels through the 7.3 PSD. Not the 2003 6.0 PSD? Bob Rentfro wrote: And which one is the desirable, trouble-free one? Last I knew, the 7.3 PSD was the desirable one, but there were troubles with crank or cam position sensors (after a few updates I think they got to be pretty reliable) There was a knock problem on #8 cylinder that Frod tried to fix with a 'long lead' (actually had a built in retard) injector, but apparently the fix was to plumb the fuel rails the way they were in IH trucks, with fuel flowing through the rail and out the back instead of just ending the flow at #8. If you let the oil go stale, it would foam up in the high pressure hydraulic system that powered the injectors. On the plus side, the PSD never had a Killer Dowel Pin. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels
My opinion is that the idi engines with a turbo setup are the most dependable. Yes, they need special coolant additive but otherwise they are pretty trouble free. No crazy crumbling injector harnesses or computer at all for that matter. Mike On Apr 20, 2011 7:05 PM, Bob Rentfro azbob...@gmail.com wrote: And which one is the desirable, trouble-free one? Bob R On Apr 20, 2011 3:51 PM, Greg Fiorentino gf...@dslnorthwest.net wrote: At some point IH became Navistar. They continued to make the Ford diesels through the 7.3 PSD. Greg -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com ] On Behalf Of Mitch Haley Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 1:45 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels Dieselhead wrote: What is IDI ford? Are you referring to Prechamber (indirect injection) as opposed to direct injection? Is this the International engine vs the frod engine that replaced the International engines? They were all made by IH, at least up through 2005 or whenever they dropped the 6.0L PSD. IDI is indeed a reference to having prechambers. The 6.9 and 7.3 were pretty much the same engine AFAIK until the direct injection PSD came along late in the 1994 model year. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels
Stuff that new is not in my area of knowledge. Greg -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Mitch Haley Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 4:25 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels Greg Fiorentino wrote: At some point IH became Navistar. They continued to make the Ford diesels through the 7.3 PSD. Not the 2003 6.0 PSD? Bob Rentfro wrote: And which one is the desirable, trouble-free one? Last I knew, the 7.3 PSD was the desirable one, but there were troubles with crank or cam position sensors (after a few updates I think they got to be pretty reliable) There was a knock problem on #8 cylinder that Frod tried to fix with a 'long lead' (actually had a built in retard) injector, but apparently the fix was to plumb the fuel rails the way they were in IH trucks, with fuel flowing through the rail and out the back instead of just ending the flow at #8. If you let the oil go stale, it would foam up in the high pressure hydraulic system that powered the injectors. On the plus side, the PSD never had a Killer Dowel Pin. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels
apparently the fix was to plumb the fuel rails the way they were in IH trucks, with fuel flowing through the rail and out the back instead of just ending the flow at #8. I don't think this is a staleness factor, but rather a hydraulic 'water hammer'. IH designed the engine with a flow-through fuel rail, and Ford cheapened it by capping the end. When your x000-PSI injector closes there's a pressure spike (or series thereof) that messes up the injection on that, and perhaps neighboring, cylinders. Also, #7 and #8 (physically adjacent, maybe Ford numbers them 6 and 8) also fire adjacently, and I think it's #7's leftover spike that messes up #8. Oops. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels
Plenty of space for six? I haven't actually tried putting a carseat in the back of an extended/plus/club cab, but I don't think it would work well. We've done it. Not a lot of leg room, and the back is quite vertical, but we've gotten six in that kind of truck before. Not good for a cross-state trip, maybe, but cross town no problem. I've ridden back there plenty of times. Our son was back there in his car seat all the time. My wife has bussed kids from his school on field trips. Car seats, all. She can carry four, the center front position would be OK for a smaller, non-car-seat type person. (No passenger airbag on my truck, so good for kids.) Maybe with an auto tranny the center front would be more usable? The worst part is the two doors, but I prefer less to squeak and leak, and the 12V engine with the P7100 inline pump. Also, with no rear doors there's a pocket into the side of the truck under the armrest. I can stretch out fully on the flattish back seat, feet in the pocket, and sleep. It's _very_ comfortable. I'm about 5'10. I would buy that exact truck again, if I had to. Ours has about 88kmi on it now. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Ford diesels
I'm dreaming of replacing my farm truck. Of course, I want a diesel. I'd prefer a Cummins, but I'm not fond of the Dodge body or transmission. So I'm looking further - but I don't know much about the Fords. A '92 will be a non-turbo, right? I have heard the 7.3 turbo is a pretty good engine. What about the normally aspirated? What's to watch out for? I'm after a sturdy work truck, not a high speed machine. I will expect it to pull 7000 lbs of trailer - but I don't need it to outrun my tired 240 when loaded. :) So what's the word on these old engines? Trouble - or a good deal? -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ford diesels
Of course, I want a diesel. I'd prefer a Cummins, but I'm not fond of the Dodge body or transmission. The NV4500 you don't like? What about the normally aspirated? Dad's (92?) is great. Not a powerhouse, but just fine. He always said it was a bit 'off' upshifting, but I don't think he wrapped it out far enough. The one time I drove it, without him along, I treated it like the 200D and wound it out before shifting. Gears/rpm's mated perfectly when I did that. Nice truck. What's to watch out for? Cavitation in the cooling system that holes the block. Ford's MUST have had their cooling system maintained properly, or the engine could be trash, or nearly so. The insidious invisible killer. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ford Diesels?
Speaking of Toast: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070125/ap_on_bi_ge/earns_ford 12 Billion - ouch Andy On 1/10/07, Zeitgeist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Typical short sighted ass-backward Merkin corporate thought in action. Ford's toast. On 1/10/07, Werner Fehlauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This copied from an AutoWeek Email today: Ford won't use European diesels for cars in the States Casey Olympia, WA Biodiesel: I drive in a persistent vegetative state '87 300TD intercooler/propane #22 0-60mph 7.3sec (220k) '84 300D (218k) Gashuffer: '89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (187K) http://users.zhonka.net/zeitgeist/Misc/IMG_0171.JPG ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ford Diesels?
Trampas, Good choices on vehicles! For minivans, my parents have a '05 Chrysler TC with the stow 'n go rear seating which has been quite handy on more than a few occasions. The Odyssey and Sienna are much better vans though, IMO. I currently have the '06 Dodge q-cab with the Cummins engine, very powerful and comfortable. My guide dog doesn't like the rear seat configuration with the deeper outboard seats and the shallower center seat. He would rather have one that's the same depth all the way across like the seat in the 300SD. He also finds it much easier to get into the 300SD being that he's 7.5 years old, not a young pup anymore. On long trips in the truck, he lies on a mattress in the bed, a dog's life. Kevin in Hillsboro, OR 1983 300SD 265K miles, Ursula
Re: [MBZ] Ford Diesels?
Kevin wrote: Not back then. The B2000 line was quite different from a Ranger of the era. Do you remember when a Ford Courier was a Mazda pickup? Or when the Chevy Luv was a Isuzu P'up? Or when a Dodge 50 was a Mitsubishi? Those little rust buckets were cheap, fun to drive, and got 30-40mpg. Mitch.
Re: [MBZ] Ford Diesels?
On Wed, Jan 10, 2007 at 08:15:09PM -0500, Mitch Haley wrote: Kevin wrote: Not back then. The B2000 line was quite different from a Ranger of the era. Do you remember when a Ford Courier was a Mazda pickup? Or when the Chevy Luv was a Isuzu P'up? Or when a Dodge 50 was a Mitsubishi? Those little rust buckets were cheap, fun to drive, and got 30-40mpg. Yup, I remember those. One used to live down the street a long time ago, though it was a mazda - had a rotary in it. K
Re: [MBZ] Ford Diesels?
On Wed, 10 Jan 2007, Jeff Zedic wrote: But it was a diesel...funny the differences between Ford Europe and Ford US.loads of diesel Land Rovers here almost enough to make you want one but not quitestill a LR. Going to look at a C220 CDI wagon tomorrow.1999. I think theres a place in vermont called rutland motorcars that sells diesel LR's (This is just a FYI, its not an endorsement, but I'm not saying to stay away, im just saying that the place exists ;) -j.
Re: [MBZ] Ford Diesels?
Assuming it can do something like 25mpg I'd consider an F150 with a diesel engine... My 3/4 ton Dodge diesel will turn in 25-26 mpg, at 60 MPH on the freeway. 20-21 for more normal freeway speeds. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Ford Diesels?
Colorado/Canyon although those trucks are rated for pretty impressive mileage even with gas engines. I've never driven one but I'm told they pretty much sell themselves, like the Dakota did My dad had one a couple years ago, a little crew cab 2wd with the 2.8L 4 banger and the short 5' bed. It had pretty good power (170HP) and seemed to do OK with the auto tranny. It was pretty comfortable too. Gas mileage wasn't like that of the '03 Jetta wagon he traded for it though it was respectable for it's size, about 25MPG highway. At one time, he test drove one with the 3.5 liter 5 banger that puts out 220HP. He said that one really had some pep! Kevin in Hillsboro, OR 1983 300sD 265K miles, Ursula
Re: [MBZ] Ford Diesels?
The Ranger pickup *is* a Mazda. Same vehicle. That's true now, but I don't believe that it was actually a Mazda until '93 when the Ranger body style changed over to the current one. My truck was a 1982, actually a Ford Courier which I don't believe was offered in a diesel. Kevin in Hillsboro, OR 1983 300SD 265K miles, Ursula
Re: [MBZ] Ford Diesels?
I would love a 300SDL or a 350SDL W126 with crate motor, For a Truck I would just go with a Dodge and the Cummings. For a mini-van I would like a Honda Odyssey with a TDI or CDI. But at last, our next car will be a Honda Odyssey with a gas engine, the powers that be have already dictated it. We will end up getting one before the end of the year. Actually I bet it will be just after I place next order with Rusty and wife flips out that I need to replace timing chain, rebuild suspension pump, and fix oil leaks on her car. Trampas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Curt Raymond Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 3:31 PM To: Diesel List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ford Diesels? That was sort of what I was baseing the 25mpg number on. That and the guy with the F150 4BT that claimed 28mpg. I still have a pipe dream (future plan sounds better though eh?) of putting a 4BT into an International Scout. Tough cool truck with a reasonably powerful diesel engine. The Scout with the Nissan 101hp diesel supposedly could pull 30mpg... No extra power there though. -Curt Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 20:26:08 -0800 From: Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ford Diesels? To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Assuming it can do something like 25mpg I'd consider an F150 with a diesel engine... My 3/4 ton Dodge diesel will turn in 25-26 mpg, at 60 MPH on the freeway. 20-21 for more normal freeway speeds. -- Jim - Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Ford Diesels?
This copied from an AutoWeek Email today: Ford won't use European diesels for cars in the States By RICHARD TRUETT | AUTOMOTIVE NEWS AutoWeek | Published 01/10/07, 10:22 am et DETROIT -- Ford Motor Co. can't make money selling cars with diesel engines in the United States. So it will use diesels only in trucks in North America. Ford's powertrain plans became clearer at a pre-Detroit auto show event here last month. Mark Fields, Ford's president of the Americas, said the company will not launch a vehicle unless it makes money. The F-150 pickup will get a new 4.4-liter turbocharged V-8 diesel engine developed by Land Rover. It is expected to debut in the United States by late 2008. But for cars, Ford plans to boost fuel economy two ways. It will use smaller engines loaded with technology, such as a turbocharger and gasoline direct injection, and offer more models with an optional gasoline-electric hybrid powertrain. Ford had considered diesel engines in cars such as the compact Focus. A diesel usually boosts fuel economy by about 30 percent. A European diesel-powered Focus gets about 50 mpg on the highway. But tougher U.S. emissions rules took effect this month. The rules make all diesel-powered vehicles sold in the United States more expensive because of added filters and other emissions equipment. We have done a lot of assessment from a customer perspective, looking at what diesel offers in terms of fuel economy and performance versus cost, said Derrick Kuzak, Ford's product development boss. At this point in time, we would say that GTDI (gasoline turbocharged direct injection) seems to be the better alternative. aw_spacer.gif
Re: [MBZ] Ford Diesels?
Yeah, but it will be nice to see that 4.4L V8 in a F-150! I may even live long enough to get rid of my '87 F-150 5.0 gas guzzler! Werner - Original Message - From: Zeitgeist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 2:09 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ford Diesels? Typical short sighted ass-backward Merkin corporate thought in action. Ford's toast. On 1/10/07, Werner Fehlauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This copied from an AutoWeek Email today: Ford won't use European diesels for cars in the States Casey Olympia, WA Biodiesel: I drive in a persistent vegetative state '87 300TD intercooler/propane #22 0-60mph 7.3sec (220k) '84 300D (218k) Gashuffer: '89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (187K) http://users.zhonka.net/zeitgeist/Misc/IMG_0171.JPG ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ford Diesels?
Assuming it can do something like 25mpg I'd consider an F150 with a diesel engine... About the only way I'd consider a fullsize pickup. -Curt Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:23:36 -0500 From: Werner Fehlauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MBZ] Ford Diesels? To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 This copied from an AutoWeek Email today: Ford won't use European diesels for cars in the States By RICHARD TRUETT | AUTOMOTIVE NEWS AutoWeek | Published 01/10/07, 10:22 am et DETROIT -- Ford Motor Co. can't make money selling cars with diesel engines in the United States. So it will use diesels only in trucks in North America. Ford's powertrain plans became clearer at a pre-Detroit auto show event here last month. Mark Fields, Ford's president of the Americas, said the company will not launch a vehicle unless it makes money. The F-150 pickup will get a new 4.4-liter turbocharged V-8 diesel engine developed by Land Rover. It is expected to debut in the United States by late 2008. - Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from real people who know. From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed Jan 10 19:41:12 2007 Received: from mail.spam-virus-intercept.com ([207.206.203.10]) by server8.arterytc8.net with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1H4jJw-0001TC-0R for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 19:41:12 + Received: from [192.168.0.101] (ip70-160-54-193.hr.hr.cox.net [70.160.54.193]) by MAIL.spam-virus-intercept.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.4.561.0) with ESMTP id [EMAIL PROTECTED] for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:37:44 -0600 X-Modus-ReverseDNS: OK X-Modus-BlackList: 70.160.54.193=OK;[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Modus-RBL: 70.160.54.193=OK X-Modus-Trusted: 70.160.54.193=NO X-Modus-Audit: FALSE;0;0;0 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-Id: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Dan Weeks [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:37:03 -0600 To: mercedes@okiebenz.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9.cp1 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mileage X-BeenThere: mercedes@okiebenz.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9.cp1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Id: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes_okiebenz.com.okiebenz.com List-Unsubscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: /pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com List-Post: mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 19:41:12 - My '82 SD with 290k averaged 27.2 mpg on a recent 1533 mile trip from Des Moines to Sedgwick, Maine, laden with three people, a dog, and a very full trunk. According to the GPS, average speed for that trip, ikncluding stops, was 66 mph; much of the time we were running 80-85. I had been averaging 25 mpg in similar driving before getting the valves adjusted. On the return, heading into a 30-35 mph headwind the whole way, and with two 16-foot rowing shells on the roof, running 70-75, I got 22.0 mpg. I was very pleased in both instances. Dan Dan Weeks Freelance Writer and Photographer 515/279-4825 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [MBZ] Ford Diesels?
Werner Fehlauer wrote: Yeah, but it will be nice to see that 4.4L V8 in a F-150! Seriously!! At least some acknowledgment that diesels work in things less than 3/4 ton trucks... I'll hold out till the Ranger has one though :-) John
Re: [MBZ] Ford Diesels?
On Wed, Jan 10, 2007 at 03:39:57PM -0600, John Robbins wrote: Werner Fehlauer wrote: Yeah, but it will be nice to see that 4.4L V8 in a F-150! Seriously!! At least some acknowledgment that diesels work in things less than 3/4 ton trucks... I'll hold out till the Ranger has one though :-) Did in the eighties. IIRC, there were two mazda variants offered. Can't remember if there was an option in the 4x4. K
Re: [MBZ] Ford Diesels?
Kevin wrote: Did in the eighties. IIRC, there were two mazda variants offered. Can't remember if there was an option in the 4x4. Were they turbocharged? Either way, they probably didn't make that many of them... John
Re: [MBZ] Ford Diesels?
On Wed, Jan 10, 2007 at 03:48:31PM -0600, John Robbins wrote: Kevin wrote: Did in the eighties. IIRC, there were two mazda variants offered. Can't remember if there was an option in the 4x4. Were they turbocharged? Either way, they probably didn't make that many of them... Can't remember. Pretty sure the 2x4s were mazda engines, which I don't think were turbocharged. Whether the 4x4s got a turbo mitsubishi engine or not I can't remember. The non turbo 2x4 with an iron head and a stick wasn't bad, but if your foot slipped going 70 you'd faceplant the dash. It was geared for 55 (which is what the speed limit was back then), and was quite happy going that speed. It'd do 70, but you had your foot in it to do so. Slightly taller tires would easily solve that. No, I don't remember what kind of mileage they got. K
Re: [MBZ] Ford Diesels?
I had a Mazda diesel pickup a couple years ago, tired and ugly, but enough for the moving job it was purchased to do. I believe that this engine was put into Ranger pickups, and there was a turbodiesel of some sort up to '87 or 88. Since Ford owns much of Mazda, I would think that this was a Mazda diesel as well. Kevin in Hillsboro, OR 1983 300SD 265K miles, Ursula
Re: [MBZ] Ford Diesels?
kevin kraly wrote: I had a Mazda diesel pickup a couple years ago, tired and ugly, but enough for the moving job it was purchased to do. I believe that this engine was put into Ranger pickups, and there was a turbodiesel of some sort up to '87 or 88. The Ranger pickup *is* a Mazda. Same vehicle.
Re: [MBZ] Ford Diesels?
On Wed, Jan 10, 2007 at 03:13:14PM -0800, David Brodbeck wrote: kevin kraly wrote: I had a Mazda diesel pickup a couple years ago, tired and ugly, but enough for the moving job it was purchased to do. I believe that this engine was put into Ranger pickups, and there was a turbodiesel of some sort up to '87 or 88. The Ranger pickup *is* a Mazda. Same vehicle. Not back then. The B2000 line was quite different from a Ranger of the era. Shoot, go find a cheap one and stick a 617 in one if you want a ranger diesel. Probably going to be better than any bad idea ford gets to put in one. K
Re: [MBZ] Ford Diesels?
Funny that this thread came up. Last night at the supermarket here in the UK, some punk kid had a club cab Ford Ranger with a short box and 20 ghetto rims. Diesel engine and he was driving like the total tosser he was. You should've seen the thing lurch into the corners. I made sure he knew from me that he was a tosser. But it was a diesel...funny the differences between Ford Europe and Ford US.loads of diesel Land Rovers here almost enough to make you want one but not quitestill a LR. Going to look at a C220 CDI wagon tomorrow.1999. Was also thinking of checking out a 1992 (!!) 190 2.5 manualgoing cheap. Body clading like the late 124's have. Oh, yes, have a line on a 1995 300D NA manual fo 3.5k US. Also a 1995 C220 manual for $3kREALLY nice looking It's like a toy store here for guys like us! WOOHOO! Jeff Zedic London Currently carless, never mind Benzless
