Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
Yes, that's the part I'm referring to. I couldn't quite make out what it was on mine. I suspected some kind of an undercoat, then painted over. A small chip that came off around the drain hole was quite hard, but I suspect that is just due to age, or that the damage has effected it in some way. Thanks for the tips. Ed 300E On 20 December 2010 01:05, Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: Thanks. By textured paint I assume you mean the areas down low? It is basically painted over undercoating. The regular off the shelf rubberized undercoating won't do. There are several options available that can duplicate this undercoating although I have been unable to 100% faithfully copy what was there. The original stuff is very rubbery and pliable and no product that I have found has had that quality. Anyway, I have used a variety of products. Wurth made a product which is meant to be applied with a special gun. I just applied it with a brush and stippled over the surface to duplicate the texture of the factory sprayed undercoating. 3M has a body shutz which is probably similar to the Wurth product. 3M also has a rocker panel spray which also takes some finishing over with a brush to smooth out the overly rough texture. Seam sealer is another product that can be used but again you have to be creative in its application to get a factory look. All these products then get primed and painted body color. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 19, 2010, at 7:21 PM, E M pokieba...@gmail.com wrote: Very impressive!! How is the textured paint applied? Is that a type of paint, or more a technique? Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 18:24, Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: Here are some pics: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=284706 Sent from my iPhone On Dec 19, 2010, at 5:47 PM, E M pokieba...@gmail.com wrote: I think any job worth doing, is worth doing properly, or as best as one can. Love to see some pics! Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 17:19, Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: I'd love to post pics of my rust repair projects. I really do high end restoration type metal repairs on my low end cars:) It makes no sense I know but I just can't help myself. I don't rember but is it possible to post attachments here? Sent from my iPhone On Dec 19, 2010, at 3:30 PM, E M pokieba...@gmail.com wrote: I would welcome more posts on restoration, and preservation. I do feel there are a number of posts on repairs, but I'd like to see more on maintance, and as I said, preservation and restoration of body and interiors, besides mechanical restorations. I have no personal interest in doing body restoration work, but I'd like to be better informed about the right way to do it on certain models, so I can better instruct those I'm paying as to how I'd like things done. As a starting point, one of the front jacking points on my W124 is showing some rust. I can't really tell is this was from prior collision work not done up to Mercedes standards, or blocked water flow passages in the past that have caused water to settle. I did notice the rubber spout under the side in questions is missing. Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 15:08, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, I did have some disagreements with Dr. Booth. But I recall they were about fundamentals of engine design and operation, not about anything specific on a car. I did have some issues with the idea that anything the dokor said was gold, never to be questioned. But he did alot of good things for all of us, and spread alot of good information... but he wasn't right about everything, and even a suggestion that he might be wrong caused problems. I was ahead of my time, and short on resources, to make dieseltech (and any real serious projects of my own) work. I've been on these lists for a long time... 10-12 years? I bought my first mercedes in 1998, a year after being able to legally drive. I grew up in a W123 and learned to drive in a W126. I'm in my 30s now. I'm an engineer and I work in the automotive industry, as some of you may know. (Which is why I took the attack on the engineers who design these cars personally) I've been working on many Mercedes project cars over the years and most of them I've never mentioned here. I feel that there is no interest in any real restoration or preservation work. The posts I do make are largely ignored. This isn't the fault of the list, its my fault for not finding a more suitable audience. I'm a big believer that original is best. Something Dr. Booth and I had in common. I enjoy these cars because they bring me and my passengers an experience of what things were like when they were new 20-30+ years ago. I take pride in making them operate as originally intended, design flaws and all. As I get older, I feel stronger and stronger about this. The projects I take on are usually nice cars
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
3M Rocker Panel Spray, part # 05911. You can use it over or under a paint. I used this to recoat repaired rockers on a number of MBs over the years, and it gives you the exact texture that the OEM stuff did. I usually put it down over primer, then shot the requisite MB flat black chassis paint over it. Looked just like it came from the factory. Dan --- On Mon, 12/20/10, E M pokieba...@gmail.com wrote: From: E M pokieba...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Date: Monday, December 20, 2010, 10:17 AM Yes, that's the part I'm referring to. I couldn't quite make out what it was on mine. I suspected some kind of an undercoat, then painted over. A small chip that came off around the drain hole was quite hard, but I suspect that is just due to age, or that the damage has effected it in some way. Thanks for the tips. Ed 300E On 20 December 2010 01:05, Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: Thanks. By textured paint I assume you mean the areas down low? It is basically painted over undercoating. The regular off the shelf rubberized undercoating won't do. There are several options available that can duplicate this undercoating although I have been unable to 100% faithfully copy what was there. The original stuff is very rubbery and pliable and no product that I have found has had that quality. Anyway, I have used a variety of products. Wurth made a product which is meant to be applied with a special gun. I just applied it with a brush and stippled over the surface to duplicate the texture of the factory sprayed undercoating. 3M has a body shutz which is probably similar to the Wurth product. 3M also has a rocker panel spray which also takes some finishing over with a brush to smooth out the overly rough texture. Seam sealer is another product that can be used but again you have to be creative in its application to get a factory look. All these products then get primed and painted body color. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 19, 2010, at 7:21 PM, E M pokieba...@gmail.com wrote: Very impressive!! How is the textured paint applied? Is that a type of paint, or more a technique? Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 18:24, Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: Here are some pics: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=284706 Sent from my iPhone On Dec 19, 2010, at 5:47 PM, E M pokieba...@gmail.com wrote: I think any job worth doing, is worth doing properly, or as best as one can. Love to see some pics! Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 17:19, Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: I'd love to post pics of my rust repair projects. I really do high end restoration type metal repairs on my low end cars:) It makes no sense I know but I just can't help myself. I don't rember but is it possible to post attachments here? Sent from my iPhone On Dec 19, 2010, at 3:30 PM, E M pokieba...@gmail.com wrote: I would welcome more posts on restoration, and preservation. I do feel there are a number of posts on repairs, but I'd like to see more on maintance, and as I said, preservation and restoration of body and interiors, besides mechanical restorations. I have no personal interest in doing body restoration work, but I'd like to be better informed about the right way to do it on certain models, so I can better instruct those I'm paying as to how I'd like things done. As a starting point, one of the front jacking points on my W124 is showing some rust. I can't really tell is this was from prior collision work not done up to Mercedes standards, or blocked water flow passages in the past that have caused water to settle. I did notice the rubber spout under the side in questions is missing. Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 15:08, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, I did have some disagreements with Dr. Booth. But I recall they were about fundamentals of engine design and operation, not about anything specific on a car. I did have some issues with the idea that anything the dokor said was gold, never to be questioned. But he did alot of good things for all of us, and spread alot of good information... but he wasn't right about everything, and even a suggestion that he might be wrong caused problems. I was ahead of my time, and short on resources, to make dieseltech (and any real serious projects of my own) work. I've been on these lists for a long time... 10-12 years? I bought my first mercedes in 1998, a year after being able to legally drive. I grew up in a W123 and learned to drive in a W126. I'm in my 30s now. I'm an engineer and I work in the automotive industry, as some of you may know. (Which is why I took the attack on the engineers who design these cars
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
What technique are you using to apply the stuff. It lays down too rough and bumpy to look entirely correct. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 20, 2010, at 10:48 AM, LWB250 lwb...@yahoo.com wrote: 3M Rocker Panel Spray, part # 05911. You can use it over or under a paint. I used this to recoat repaired rockers on a number of MBs over the years, and it gives you the exact texture that the OEM stuff did. I usually put it down over primer, then shot the requisite MB flat black chassis paint over it. Looked just like it came from the factory. Dan --- On Mon, 12/20/10, E M pokieba...@gmail.com wrote: From: E M pokieba...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Date: Monday, December 20, 2010, 10:17 AM Yes, that's the part I'm referring to. I couldn't quite make out what it was on mine. I suspected some kind of an undercoat, then painted over. A small chip that came off around the drain hole was quite hard, but I suspect that is just due to age, or that the damage has effected it in some way. Thanks for the tips. Ed 300E On 20 December 2010 01:05, Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: Thanks. By textured paint I assume you mean the areas down low? It is basically painted over undercoating. The regular off the shelf rubberized undercoating won't do. There are several options available that can duplicate this undercoating although I have been unable to 100% faithfully copy what was there. The original stuff is very rubbery and pliable and no product that I have found has had that quality. Anyway, I have used a variety of products. Wurth made a product which is meant to be applied with a special gun. I just applied it with a brush and stippled over the surface to duplicate the texture of the factory sprayed undercoating. 3M has a body shutz which is probably similar to the Wurth product. 3M also has a rocker panel spray which also takes some finishing over with a brush to smooth out the overly rough texture. Seam sealer is another product that can be used but again you have to be creative in its application to get a factory look. All these products then get primed and painted body color. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 19, 2010, at 7:21 PM, E M pokieba...@gmail.com wrote: Very impressive!! How is the textured paint applied? Is that a type of paint, or more a technique? Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 18:24, Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: Here are some pics: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=284706 Sent from my iPhone On Dec 19, 2010, at 5:47 PM, E M pokieba...@gmail.com wrote: I think any job worth doing, is worth doing properly, or as best as one can. Love to see some pics! Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 17:19, Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: I'd love to post pics of my rust repair projects. I really do high end restoration type metal repairs on my low end cars:) It makes no sense I know but I just can't help myself. I don't rember but is it possible to post attachments here? Sent from my iPhone On Dec 19, 2010, at 3:30 PM, E M pokieba...@gmail.com wrote: I would welcome more posts on restoration, and preservation. I do feel there are a number of posts on repairs, but I'd like to see more on maintance, and as I said, preservation and restoration of body and interiors, besides mechanical restorations. I have no personal interest in doing body restoration work, but I'd like to be better informed about the right way to do it on certain models, so I can better instruct those I'm paying as to how I'd like things done. As a starting point, one of the front jacking points on my W124 is showing some rust. I can't really tell is this was from prior collision work not done up to Mercedes standards, or blocked water flow passages in the past that have caused water to settle. I did notice the rubber spout under the side in questions is missing. Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 15:08, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, I did have some disagreements with Dr. Booth. But I recall they were about fundamentals of engine design and operation, not about anything specific on a car. I did have some issues with the idea that anything the dokor said was gold, never to be questioned. But he did alot of good things for all of us, and spread alot of good information... but he wasn't right about everything, and even a suggestion that he might be wrong caused problems. I was ahead of my time, and short on resources, to make dieseltech (and any real serious projects of my own) work. I've been on these lists for a long time... 10-12 years? I bought my first mercedes in 1998, a year after being able to legally drive. I grew up in a W123 and learned to drive in a W126. I'm in my 30s now. I'm an engineer and I work in the automotive industry, as some of you may know. (Which is why I took the attack on the engineers who design these cars personally) I've been working on many
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
Thanks for all the kind words, guys! Jaime On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 7:13 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: Jaime, I appreciate your prior contributions and I have always had a LOT of respect for you. After this post, my respect is restored, and I ask you to consider remaining. I was really surprised and shocked that you chose to ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
Thanks Dan. Ed 300E On 20 December 2010 10:48, LWB250 lwb...@yahoo.com wrote: 3M Rocker Panel Spray, part # 05911. You can use it over or under a paint. I used this to recoat repaired rockers on a number of MBs over the years, and it gives you the exact texture that the OEM stuff did. I usually put it down over primer, then shot the requisite MB flat black chassis paint over it. Looked just like it came from the factory. Dan --- On Mon, 12/20/10, E M pokieba...@gmail.com wrote: From: E M pokieba...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Date: Monday, December 20, 2010, 10:17 AM Yes, that's the part I'm referring to. I couldn't quite make out what it was on mine. I suspected some kind of an undercoat, then painted over. A small chip that came off around the drain hole was quite hard, but I suspect that is just due to age, or that the damage has effected it in some way. Thanks for the tips. Ed 300E On 20 December 2010 01:05, Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: Thanks. By textured paint I assume you mean the areas down low? It is basically painted over undercoating. The regular off the shelf rubberized undercoating won't do. There are several options available that can duplicate this undercoating although I have been unable to 100% faithfully copy what was there. The original stuff is very rubbery and pliable and no product that I have found has had that quality. Anyway, I have used a variety of products. Wurth made a product which is meant to be applied with a special gun. I just applied it with a brush and stippled over the surface to duplicate the texture of the factory sprayed undercoating. 3M has a body shutz which is probably similar to the Wurth product. 3M also has a rocker panel spray which also takes some finishing over with a brush to smooth out the overly rough texture. Seam sealer is another product that can be used but again you have to be creative in its application to get a factory look. All these products then get primed and painted body color. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 19, 2010, at 7:21 PM, E M pokieba...@gmail.com wrote: Very impressive!! How is the textured paint applied? Is that a type of paint, or more a technique? Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 18:24, Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: Here are some pics: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=284706 Sent from my iPhone On Dec 19, 2010, at 5:47 PM, E M pokieba...@gmail.com wrote: I think any job worth doing, is worth doing properly, or as best as one can. Love to see some pics! Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 17:19, Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: I'd love to post pics of my rust repair projects. I really do high end restoration type metal repairs on my low end cars:) It makes no sense I know but I just can't help myself. I don't rember but is it possible to post attachments here? Sent from my iPhone On Dec 19, 2010, at 3:30 PM, E M pokieba...@gmail.com wrote: I would welcome more posts on restoration, and preservation. I do feel there are a number of posts on repairs, but I'd like to see more on maintance, and as I said, preservation and restoration of body and interiors, besides mechanical restorations. I have no personal interest in doing body restoration work, but I'd like to be better informed about the right way to do it on certain models, so I can better instruct those I'm paying as to how I'd like things done. As a starting point, one of the front jacking points on my W124 is showing some rust. I can't really tell is this was from prior collision work not done up to Mercedes standards, or blocked water flow passages in the past that have caused water to settle. I did notice the rubber spout under the side in questions is missing. Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 15:08, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, I did have some disagreements with Dr. Booth. But I recall they were about fundamentals of engine design and operation, not about anything specific on a car. I did have some issues with the idea that anything the dokor said was gold, never to be questioned. But he did alot of good things for all of us, and spread alot of good information... but he wasn't right about everything, and even a suggestion that he might be wrong caused problems. I was ahead of my time, and short on resources, to make dieseltech (and any real serious projects of my own) work. I've been on these lists for a long time... 10-12 years? I bought my first mercedes in 1998, a year after being able to legally drive. I grew
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
I have used the rattle can version with great success. It's too messy in bulk to goober up a good spray gun. I just masked carefully and sprayed in light passes until I go the coverage and effect I wanted. The stuff looked as good as the original, I thought. I have used the Wurth brand equivalent, too, but I'm a 3M snob when it comes to body work stuff. Dan --- On Mon, 12/20/10, E M pokieba...@gmail.com wrote: From: E M pokieba...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Date: Monday, December 20, 2010, 3:40 PM Thanks Dan. Ed 300E On 20 December 2010 10:48, LWB250 lwb...@yahoo.com wrote: 3M Rocker Panel Spray, part # 05911. You can use it over or under a paint. I used this to recoat repaired rockers on a number of MBs over the years, and it gives you the exact texture that the OEM stuff did. I usually put it down over primer, then shot the requisite MB flat black chassis paint over it. Looked just like it came from the factory. Dan --- On Mon, 12/20/10, E M pokieba...@gmail.com wrote: From: E M pokieba...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Date: Monday, December 20, 2010, 10:17 AM Yes, that's the part I'm referring to. I couldn't quite make out what it was on mine. I suspected some kind of an undercoat, then painted over. A small chip that came off around the drain hole was quite hard, but I suspect that is just due to age, or that the damage has effected it in some way. Thanks for the tips. Ed 300E On 20 December 2010 01:05, Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: Thanks. By textured paint I assume you mean the areas down low? It is basically painted over undercoating. The regular off the shelf rubberized undercoating won't do. There are several options available that can duplicate this undercoating although I have been unable to 100% faithfully copy what was there. The original stuff is very rubbery and pliable and no product that I have found has had that quality. Anyway, I have used a variety of products. Wurth made a product which is meant to be applied with a special gun. I just applied it with a brush and stippled over the surface to duplicate the texture of the factory sprayed undercoating. 3M has a body shutz which is probably similar to the Wurth product. 3M also has a rocker panel spray which also takes some finishing over with a brush to smooth out the overly rough texture. Seam sealer is another product that can be used but again you have to be creative in its application to get a factory look. All these products then get primed and painted body color. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 19, 2010, at 7:21 PM, E M pokieba...@gmail.com wrote: Very impressive!! How is the textured paint applied? Is that a type of paint, or more a technique? Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 18:24, Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: Here are some pics: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=284706 Sent from my iPhone On Dec 19, 2010, at 5:47 PM, E M pokieba...@gmail.com wrote: I think any job worth doing, is worth doing properly, or as best as one can. Love to see some pics! Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 17:19, Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: I'd love to post pics of my rust repair projects. I really do high end restoration type metal repairs on my low end cars:) It makes no sense I know but I just can't help myself. I don't rember but is it possible to post attachments here? Sent from my iPhone On Dec 19, 2010, at 3:30 PM, E M pokieba...@gmail.com wrote: I would welcome more posts on restoration, and preservation. I do feel there are a number of posts on repairs, but I'd like to see more on maintance, and as I said, preservation and restoration of body and interiors, besides mechanical restorations. I have no personal interest in doing body restoration work, but I'd like to be better informed about the right way to do it on certain models, so I can better instruct those I'm paying as to how I'd like things done. As a starting point, one of the front jacking points on my W124 is showing some rust. I can't really tell is this was from prior collision work not done up to Mercedes standards, or blocked water flow passages in the past that have caused water to settle. I did notice the rubber spout under the side in questions is missing. Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 15:08, Jaime Kopchinski jaime
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
I've been off and on the list since it was based in Canada, Walt. Dr. Booth (mhsrip) was the critisizer in chief and his legacy has been a custom of blunt criticism when someone was judged to be wrong. Dr. Booth was seldom wrong, but those who follow his custom sometimes are, and then the arguments begin. There are a few on this list who know Mercedes and how to fix them better than most, and there are others who have more esoteric opinions. I've learned a lot on this list about fixing my Mercedes, but I seldom post anything but questions since I don't like to argue. In my experience, this list isn't much different than any other popular open list on the 'net that doesn't have an active list owner who enforces list rules. If I were an active contributor to this list I would have a very thick skin, never apologize for anything I wrote, and if I were attacked; my reply would not be an apology, but rather a simply explanation of my position. IMO life is too short to indulge in meaningless attack and counterattack. Therefore, I just read, learn, and ask questions when necessary. Hope this helps you understand what's going on, Walt. Gerry...age 81...back to reading and learning. From: Walt Zarnoch zarnoch...@gmail.com I don't think I perrsonally drove anyone away. I rarely intervene in the general flow of the list, and what little I do say is usualy looking for tidbits of information to help with my project, or a reply to an off-topic discussion. I guess I slipped up by giving an opinion about the double pane window thing, but that is hardly a reason for anyone to fly off the handle. I have no personal issue with anyone here, I understand we all have a difference in opinion, and that is a good thing. I just can't see why this is going on right now. Walt --- ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
Lets get one thing perfectly clear. This list does have a list owner who does enforce the rules. The rules here are not as anal retentive as another list that is out there. Flaming will not be tolerated, period. Jaime is a very strange dude and gets offended easy for whatever reason. Sorry he is gone, but that is that, whatever. Gary is often misunderstood and I am SURE he will not be doing any flaming. If it does continue, proper steps will be taken. Now, lets get back to our normal discussions. Gerry Archer wrote: I've been off and on the list since it was based in Canada, Walt. Dr. Booth (mhsrip) was the critisizer in chief and his legacy has been a custom of blunt criticism when someone was judged to be wrong. Dr. Booth was seldom wrong, but those who follow his custom sometimes are, and then the arguments begin. There are a few on this list who know Mercedes and how to fix them better than most, and there are others who have more esoteric opinions. I've learned a lot on this list about fixing my Mercedes, but I seldom post anything but questions since I don't like to argue. In my experience, this list isn't much different than any other popular open list on the 'net that doesn't have an active list owner who enforces list rules. If I were an active contributor to this list I would have a very thick skin, never apologize for anything I wrote, and if I were attacked; my reply would not be an apology, but rather a simply explanation of my position. IMO life is too short to indulge in meaningless attack and counterattack. Therefore, I just read, learn, and ask questions when necessary. Hope this helps you understand what's going on, Walt. Gerry...age 81...back to reading and learning. From: Walt Zarnoch zarnoch...@gmail.com I don't think I perrsonally drove anyone away. I rarely intervene in the general flow of the list, and what little I do say is usualy looking for tidbits of information to help with my project, or a reply to an off-topic discussion. I guess I slipped up by giving an opinion about the double pane window thing, but that is hardly a reason for anyone to fly off the handle. I have no personal issue with anyone here, I understand we all have a difference in opinion, and that is a good thing. I just can't see why this is going on right now. Walt --- ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
Kaleb, This belong on your famous quotes page. It is extremely hilarious, coming from the master of flaming. Hursty sez: you guys really act viciously and abnormally and i don't think you see it at all ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
It's mainly because Hurst is an obsessive maniac who lashes out at anyone who doesn't fall in step with his bizarre and often psychotic ideas, myself being one of those. The easiest way to deal with such things is to utilize your mail filter. It makes the list a far easier read and eliminates the fringe element that skulk in the dark corners, only to surface when they get off their meds. I believe the proper term is troll, but if you ever saw Hurst, his physical makeup hardly fits this. Better the moniker Jabba, which he earned some years ago. Dan --- On Sun, 12/19/10, Walt Zarnoch zarnoch...@gmail.com wrote: From: Walt Zarnoch zarnoch...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Date: Sunday, December 19, 2010, 2:04 AM I don't think I perrsonally drove anyone away. I rarely intervene in the general flow of the list, and what little I do say is usualy looking for tidbits of information to help with my project, or a reply to an off-topic discussion. I guess I slipped up by giving an opinion about the double pane window thing, but that is hardly a reason for anyone to fly off the handle. I have no personal issue with anyone here, I understand we all have a difference in opinion, and that is a good thing. I just can't see why this is going on right now. Walt On Dec 19, 2010 1:29 AM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com wrote: if you wish to learn, it's probably not best to drive jaime to unsubscribe. he's not only a good fella, but has much specialized knowledge. first to drive him off and then to just keep piling on is not stylish i also got an email from richard, the founder of this list, regarding the endless slander he receives here you guys really act viciously and abnormally and i don't think you see it at all On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 1:25 AM, Walt Zarnoch zarnoch...@gmail.com wrote: Ok, I'm a nobody with less experience than most list member's pinky toes, but I won't stand people outright flaming. I don't care to know the exact nature of what was going on when I first joined the list, but it seems to be repeating itself. I don't know why. I don't care who started it, or their reasons. Are not we all above this? Does everything now devolve to people acting like rabid dogs? I joined this list to learn, not to get my inbox accosted with vitriolic hate. One would think that people who take pride in owning or working on a Benz would be better suited at turning the other cheek and acting congenial to their fellow man, especially during this season. Walt On Dec 19, 2010 12:49 AM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com wrote: you and penoff are identical cousins maybe? the fools have already driven jaime off the lists. what more do you want from him? he's left. everyone here must be like you? On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au wrote: Yes I saw you where back and it seems back to your usual way of expressing yourself. I reckon I still have the right to express thoughts on this list or perhaps you are now in charge and only mad rants, directed at whole sections of list members, are allowed (ie. the haters and ignorant ones) and the hating ignorant ones are especially going to feel the wrath of Jabba the hutt and the ueber master of automotive knowledge, or has he had his dummy spit, grabbed his bat and joined a more intelligent MB forum, where they appreciate the 140 and it's gadgets and deride any MB that cost less than 20K to buy. Now perhaps you would be good enough to point out the rule that posts, of a certain age, cannot be commented upon. The original post from the master was on the 13th of December and unfortunately I have been busy, thus unable to catch up on all the posts sent by the members. There are lots of things wrong with me but I think the one you are referring to is the one where I am not happy for a list member to call the list (or some members thereof) ignorant because they declared the 140 to be a step back for Mercedes, or at the very least contain some very expensive components that fail in a time frame not usual for a Benz product. Perhaps Jaime could get a job at Daimler as a customer liaison executive, in charge of telling them that they are ignorant to be unhappy that their MB is spending a lot of time in the workshop and the reason the MB's of the mid 90's to late 00's are less reliable than the cars they replaced is that this is how automotive development works. We tried to build a more sophisticated machine on a smaller budget and it just didn't work out quite the way it was supposed to but that's OK with us, we get to sell some very expensive bits to you ignorant fools
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
Here Here! I second the motion - almost coughed up my cereal reading that one! -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dieselhead Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 9:20 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate Kaleb, This belong on your famous quotes page. It is extremely hilarious, coming from the master of flaming. Hursty sez: you guys really act viciously and abnormally and i don't think you see it at all ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
Gerry Archer arche...@embarqmail.com writes: I've been off and on the list since it was based in Canada, Walt. Dr. Booth (mhsrip) was the critisizer in chief and his legacy has been a custom of blunt criticism when someone was judged to be wrong. Dr. Booth was seldom wrong, but those who follow his custom sometimes are, and then the arguments begin. I don't recall Marshall EVER getting in the middle of a flame war or personally attacking anyone. He might tell them they were wrong, in fairly direct terms, on the basis of the facts or his experience, but I don't recall any personal attacks or insults. Jaime, for whatever his knowledge is (he was a college student when I first joined the mbz.org lists, so I would guess he's still in his 20s) doesn't appear to have Dr. Booth's maturity or restraint. He called people on this list ignorant and clueless, unprovoked. I reviewed that thread and he was not involved until that point. So from my perspective, he's the one who started whatever events unfolded. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
I suspect Jamie might be confusing the Mercedes mystique with actual car ownership. I don't drive a Benz because I want to stick something up my neighbor's nose to make him or her think I'm better than they are, I drive one because it's a safe (crash tested personally) generally reliable, low cost automobile. Benz engineers aren't angels, and have made some rather cranky designs in the past, are quite capable of making an engine almost impossible to service in place, etc, but up to the 90's rarely did things like under-engineer suspension components. I do not remember ever hearing of a safety recall on a Benz before the W140, although there may have been. Emissions recalls, yes (trap oxidizer comes to mind), but for running gear? Not. The W140 was not a pleasant experience for MB -- there is some data that indicates MB lost money on the first few years run -- cost more to make the car than they sold for, and the electronics were NOT reliable, costing them a fortune on warrenty repairs on top of not making money in the first place. Buying Chrysler seems to have injected a large amount of american quality into Benz -- specifically adding lots of glitzy crap that won't last to luxury cars while cheaping out on mechanicals. Sad. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
- Original Message - From: Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu Gerry Archer arche...@embarqmail.com writes: I've been off and on the list since it was based in Canada, Walt. Dr. Booth (mhsrip) was the critisizer in chief and his legacy has been a custom of blunt criticism when someone was judged to be wrong. Dr. Booth was seldom wrong, but those who follow his custom sometimes are, and then the arguments begin. I don't recall Marshall EVER getting in the middle of a flame war or personally attacking anyone. He might tell them they were wrong, in fairly direct terms, on the basis of the facts or his experience, but I don't recall any personal attacks or insultssnip - Nor do I. He set a tone of gentlemanly disagreement, and because he was so rarely wrong; others did likewise. Gerry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
I think the problem, Kaleb, is a different definition of flaming between you, and I and Dan and several others on this list. Gerry From: Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net Lets get one thing perfectly clear. This list does have a list owner who does enforce the rules. The rules here are not as anal retentive as another list that is out there. Flaming will not be tolerated, period. Jaime is a very strange dude and gets offended easy for whatever reason. Sorry he is gone, but that is that, whatever. Gary is often misunderstood and I am SURE he will not be doing any flaming. If it does continue, proper steps will be taken. Now, lets get back to our normal discussions. Gerry Archer wrote: I've been off and on the list since it was based in Canada, Walt. Dr. Booth (mhsrip) was the critisizer in chief and his legacy has been a custom of blunt criticism when someone was judged to be wrong. Dr. Booth was seldom wrong, but those who follow his custom sometimes are, and then the arguments begin. There are a few on this list who know Mercedes and how to fix them better than most, and there are others who have more esoteric opinions. I've learned a lot on this list about fixing my Mercedes, but I seldom post anything but questions since I don't like to argue. In my experience, this list isn't much different than any other popular open list on the 'net that doesn't have an active list owner who enforces list rules. If I were an active contributor to this list I would have a very thick skin, never apologize for anything I wrote, and if I were attacked; my reply would not be an apology, but rather a simply explanation of my position. IMO life is too short to indulge in meaningless attack and counterattack. Therefore, I just read, learn, and ask questions when necessary. Hope this helps you understand what's going on, Walt. Gerry...age 81...back to reading and learning. From: Walt Zarnoch zarnoch...@gmail.com I don't think I perrsonally drove anyone away. I rarely intervene in the general flow of the list, and what little I do say is usualy looking for tidbits of information to help with my project, or a reply to an off-topic discussion. I guess I slipped up by giving an opinion about the double pane window thing, but that is hardly a reason for anyone to fly off the handle. I have no personal issue with anyone here, I understand we all have a difference in opinion, and that is a good thing. I just can't see why this is going on right now. Walt --- ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3325 - Release Date: 12/19/10 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
Gerry Archer wrote: I've been off and on the list since it was based in Canada, Walt. Dr. Booth (mhsrip) was the critisizer in chief and his legacy has been a custom of blunt criticism when someone was judged to be wrong. Ah, yes. Herr Doktor Booth and young Jaime had their disagreements back in the day, which would have predated young Walt by several years. Herr Doktor was of the 'stock is best' school of thought, which held the theory that Daimler-Benz spent millions every year on engineers who were paid to know something about the cars they designed. Those engineers clearly knew more than you or I, so why would we ever dream of trying to improve on their designs? Eventually Jaime was made the moderator of a DIESELTECH list, which existed to discuss higher mechanics and modifications apart from the regular DIESEL list. Herr Doktor either unsubscribed or was banned from that list after naysaying every engine hop-up thread. The two things Marshall is best remembered for are ALWAYS REPLACE ALL THE FUSES when you buy a used car, and if you modify that diesel engine, YOU WILL MELT YOUR PISTONS. Since Dr. August Marshall Booth left this earth, the sayings have been combined humorously. For example: IF YOU DON'T CHANGE YOUR FUSES, YOUR PISTONS WILL MELT. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
I changed my pistons and fuses all melted. I don't know what to do now -- if I leave the fuses as they are will my pistons melt? --R On 12/19/2010 11:30 AM, Mitch Haley wrote: Gerry Archer wrote: I've been off and on the list since it was based in Canada, Walt. Dr. Booth (mhsrip) was the critisizer in chief and his legacy has been a custom of blunt criticism when someone was judged to be wrong. Ah, yes. Herr Doktor Booth and young Jaime had their disagreements back in the day, which would have predated young Walt by several years. Herr Doktor was of the 'stock is best' school of thought, which held the theory that Daimler-Benz spent millions every year on engineers who were paid to know something about the cars they designed. Those engineers clearly knew more than you or I, so why would we ever dream of trying to improve on their designs? Eventually Jaime was made the moderator of a DIESELTECH list, which existed to discuss higher mechanics and modifications apart from the regular DIESEL list. Herr Doktor either unsubscribed or was banned from that list after naysaying every engine hop-up thread. The two things Marshall is best remembered for are ALWAYS REPLACE ALL THE FUSES when you buy a used car, and if you modify that diesel engine, YOU WILL MELT YOUR PISTONS. Since Dr. August Marshall Booth left this earth, the sayings have been combined humorously. For example: IF YOU DON'T CHANGE YOUR FUSES, YOUR PISTONS WILL MELT. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
wow attack after attack. where is the moderator during all of this? i attacked no one and get attacked again and again and again by people like penoff (who, btw, is personally beholden to me, which makes it even uglier) we were once friends of sort. it was penoff who named me jabba today, just viciousness and animalism. i ask no one to fall in step with my ideas, especially those that are bizarre and psychotic what is it with you people that you must launch personal attack after personal attack? a once shining beacon of the mercedes world is reduced to this? i really suggest those of you who are involved in its destruction repent. you can do better than this. On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 9:41 AM, LWB250 lwb...@yahoo.com wrote: It's mainly because Hurst is an obsessive maniac who lashes out at anyone who doesn't fall in step with his bizarre and often psychotic ideas, myself being one of those. The easiest way to deal with such things is to utilize your mail filter. It makes the list a far easier read and eliminates the fringe element that skulk in the dark corners, only to surface when they get off their meds. I believe the proper term is troll, but if you ever saw Hurst, his physical makeup hardly fits this. Better the moniker Jabba, which he earned some years ago. Dan --- On Sun, 12/19/10, Walt Zarnoch zarnoch...@gmail.com wrote: From: Walt Zarnoch zarnoch...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Date: Sunday, December 19, 2010, 2:04 AM I don't think I perrsonally drove anyone away. I rarely intervene in the general flow of the list, and what little I do say is usualy looking for tidbits of information to help with my project, or a reply to an off-topic discussion. I guess I slipped up by giving an opinion about the double pane window thing, but that is hardly a reason for anyone to fly off the handle. I have no personal issue with anyone here, I understand we all have a difference in opinion, and that is a good thing. I just can't see why this is going on right now. Walt On Dec 19, 2010 1:29 AM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com wrote: if you wish to learn, it's probably not best to drive jaime to unsubscribe. he's not only a good fella, but has much specialized knowledge. first to drive him off and then to just keep piling on is not stylish i also got an email from richard, the founder of this list, regarding the endless slander he receives here you guys really act viciously and abnormally and i don't think you see it at all On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 1:25 AM, Walt Zarnoch zarnoch...@gmail.com wrote: Ok, I'm a nobody with less experience than most list member's pinky toes, but I won't stand people outright flaming. I don't care to know the exact nature of what was going on when I first joined the list, but it seems to be repeating itself. I don't know why. I don't care who started it, or their reasons. Are not we all above this? Does everything now devolve to people acting like rabid dogs? I joined this list to learn, not to get my inbox accosted with vitriolic hate. One would think that people who take pride in owning or working on a Benz would be better suited at turning the other cheek and acting congenial to their fellow man, especially during this season. Walt On Dec 19, 2010 12:49 AM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com wrote: you and penoff are identical cousins maybe? the fools have already driven jaime off the lists. what more do you want from him? he's left. everyone here must be like you? On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au wrote: Yes I saw you where back and it seems back to your usual way of expressing yourself. I reckon I still have the right to express thoughts on this list or perhaps you are now in charge and only mad rants, directed at whole sections of list members, are allowed (ie. the haters and ignorant ones) and the hating ignorant ones are especially going to feel the wrath of Jabba the hutt and the ueber master of automotive knowledge, or has he had his dummy spit, grabbed his bat and joined a more intelligent MB forum, where they appreciate the 140 and it's gadgets and deride any MB that cost less than 20K to buy. Now perhaps you would be good enough to point out the rule that posts, of a certain age, cannot be commented upon. The original post from the master was on the 13th of December and unfortunately I have been busy, thus unable to catch up on all the posts sent by the members. There are lots of things wrong with me but I think the one you are referring to is the one where I am not happy
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
i am master of many things. i guess i can't help it as mastery is in my nature i'm not sure that should make me a target of personal attacks on a daily basis for the bully kids though On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 9:43 AM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.netwrote: Here Here! I second the motion - almost coughed up my cereal reading that one! -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dieselhead Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 9:20 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate Kaleb, This belong on your famous quotes page. It is extremely hilarious, coming from the master of flaming. Hursty sez: you guys really act viciously and abnormally and i don't think you see it at all ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
hursty wrote: i ask no one to fall in step with my ideas, especially those that are bizarre and psychotic Except... I am even more bizarre and psychotic. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
Yes, I did have some disagreements with Dr. Booth. But I recall they were about fundamentals of engine design and operation, not about anything specific on a car. I did have some issues with the idea that anything the dokor said was gold, never to be questioned. But he did alot of good things for all of us, and spread alot of good information... but he wasn't right about everything, and even a suggestion that he might be wrong caused problems. I was ahead of my time, and short on resources, to make dieseltech (and any real serious projects of my own) work. I've been on these lists for a long time... 10-12 years? I bought my first mercedes in 1998, a year after being able to legally drive. I grew up in a W123 and learned to drive in a W126. I'm in my 30s now. I'm an engineer and I work in the automotive industry, as some of you may know. (Which is why I took the attack on the engineers who design these cars personally) I've been working on many Mercedes project cars over the years and most of them I've never mentioned here. I feel that there is no interest in any real restoration or preservation work. The posts I do make are largely ignored. This isn't the fault of the list, its my fault for not finding a more suitable audience. I'm a big believer that original is best. Something Dr. Booth and I had in common. I enjoy these cars because they bring me and my passengers an experience of what things were like when they were new 20-30+ years ago. I take pride in making them operate as originally intended, design flaws and all. As I get older, I feel stronger and stronger about this. The projects I take on are usually nice cars that have been neglected. I bring them back to reliable daily service, and sell them off (rarely for profit, always because I enjoy doing it). I'm working on my third one this year right now and usually own 4-5 cars at a time. I'll be unsubscribing here shortly, but I wanted to set things straight before leaving. Whats written above is how I feel. You might not agree, and you're entitled to that opinion. As I said before, I'm pretty shocked by the reaction my comment has had. Once again, sorry if I offended any of you. Jaime On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Ah, yes. Herr Doktor Booth and young Jaime had their disagreements back in the day, which would have predated young Walt by several years. Herr Doktor was of the 'stock is best' school of thought, which held the theory that Daimler-Benz spent millions every year on engineers who were paid to know something about the cars they designed. Those engineers clearly knew more than you or I, so why would we ever dream of trying to improve on their designs? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
I would welcome more posts on restoration, and preservation. I do feel there are a number of posts on repairs, but I'd like to see more on maintance, and as I said, preservation and restoration of body and interiors, besides mechanical restorations. I have no personal interest in doing body restoration work, but I'd like to be better informed about the right way to do it on certain models, so I can better instruct those I'm paying as to how I'd like things done. As a starting point, one of the front jacking points on my W124 is showing some rust. I can't really tell is this was from prior collision work not done up to Mercedes standards, or blocked water flow passages in the past that have caused water to settle. I did notice the rubber spout under the side in questions is missing. Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 15:08, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, I did have some disagreements with Dr. Booth. But I recall they were about fundamentals of engine design and operation, not about anything specific on a car. I did have some issues with the idea that anything the dokor said was gold, never to be questioned. But he did alot of good things for all of us, and spread alot of good information... but he wasn't right about everything, and even a suggestion that he might be wrong caused problems. I was ahead of my time, and short on resources, to make dieseltech (and any real serious projects of my own) work. I've been on these lists for a long time... 10-12 years? I bought my first mercedes in 1998, a year after being able to legally drive. I grew up in a W123 and learned to drive in a W126. I'm in my 30s now. I'm an engineer and I work in the automotive industry, as some of you may know. (Which is why I took the attack on the engineers who design these cars personally) I've been working on many Mercedes project cars over the years and most of them I've never mentioned here. I feel that there is no interest in any real restoration or preservation work. The posts I do make are largely ignored. This isn't the fault of the list, its my fault for not finding a more suitable audience. I'm a big believer that original is best. Something Dr. Booth and I had in common. I enjoy these cars because they bring me and my passengers an experience of what things were like when they were new 20-30+ years ago. I take pride in making them operate as originally intended, design flaws and all. As I get older, I feel stronger and stronger about this. The projects I take on are usually nice cars that have been neglected. I bring them back to reliable daily service, and sell them off (rarely for profit, always because I enjoy doing it). I'm working on my third one this year right now and usually own 4-5 cars at a time. I'll be unsubscribing here shortly, but I wanted to set things straight before leaving. Whats written above is how I feel. You might not agree, and you're entitled to that opinion. As I said before, I'm pretty shocked by the reaction my comment has had. Once again, sorry if I offended any of you. Jaime On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Ah, yes. Herr Doktor Booth and young Jaime had their disagreements back in the day, which would have predated young Walt by several years. Herr Doktor was of the 'stock is best' school of thought, which held the theory that Daimler-Benz spent millions every year on engineers who were paid to know something about the cars they designed. Those engineers clearly knew more than you or I, so why would we ever dream of trying to improve on their designs? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
I'd love to post pics of my rust repair projects. I really do high end restoration type metal repairs on my low end cars:) It makes no sense I know but I just can't help myself. I don't rember but is it possible to post attachments here? Sent from my iPhone On Dec 19, 2010, at 3:30 PM, E M pokieba...@gmail.com wrote: I would welcome more posts on restoration, and preservation. I do feel there are a number of posts on repairs, but I'd like to see more on maintance, and as I said, preservation and restoration of body and interiors, besides mechanical restorations. I have no personal interest in doing body restoration work, but I'd like to be better informed about the right way to do it on certain models, so I can better instruct those I'm paying as to how I'd like things done. As a starting point, one of the front jacking points on my W124 is showing some rust. I can't really tell is this was from prior collision work not done up to Mercedes standards, or blocked water flow passages in the past that have caused water to settle. I did notice the rubber spout under the side in questions is missing. Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 15:08, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, I did have some disagreements with Dr. Booth. But I recall they were about fundamentals of engine design and operation, not about anything specific on a car. I did have some issues with the idea that anything the dokor said was gold, never to be questioned. But he did alot of good things for all of us, and spread alot of good information... but he wasn't right about everything, and even a suggestion that he might be wrong caused problems. I was ahead of my time, and short on resources, to make dieseltech (and any real serious projects of my own) work. I've been on these lists for a long time... 10-12 years? I bought my first mercedes in 1998, a year after being able to legally drive. I grew up in a W123 and learned to drive in a W126. I'm in my 30s now. I'm an engineer and I work in the automotive industry, as some of you may know. (Which is why I took the attack on the engineers who design these cars personally) I've been working on many Mercedes project cars over the years and most of them I've never mentioned here. I feel that there is no interest in any real restoration or preservation work. The posts I do make are largely ignored. This isn't the fault of the list, its my fault for not finding a more suitable audience. I'm a big believer that original is best. Something Dr. Booth and I had in common. I enjoy these cars because they bring me and my passengers an experience of what things were like when they were new 20-30+ years ago. I take pride in making them operate as originally intended, design flaws and all. As I get older, I feel stronger and stronger about this. The projects I take on are usually nice cars that have been neglected. I bring them back to reliable daily service, and sell them off (rarely for profit, always because I enjoy doing it). I'm working on my third one this year right now and usually own 4-5 cars at a time. I'll be unsubscribing here shortly, but I wanted to set things straight before leaving. Whats written above is how I feel. You might not agree, and you're entitled to that opinion. As I said before, I'm pretty shocked by the reaction my comment has had. Once again, sorry if I offended any of you. Jaime On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Ah, yes. Herr Doktor Booth and young Jaime had their disagreements back in the day, which would have predated young Walt by several years. Herr Doktor was of the 'stock is best' school of thought, which held the theory that Daimler-Benz spent millions every year on engineers who were paid to know something about the cars they designed. Those engineers clearly knew more than you or I, so why would we ever dream of trying to improve on their designs? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
Dimitri Seretakis wrote: I'd love to post pics of my rust repair projects. I really do high end restoration type metal repairs on my low end cars:) It makes no sense I know but I just can't help myself. I don't rember but is it possible to post attachments here? Sent from my iPhone Yes, but they have to wait for Kaleb to approve them and archive them on Okibenz. Didn't you post pics of a restoration where you made a new rear corner for a door? Or was that a link to a photobucket page? Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
Jaime K, ED, et al. Jaime, please don't leave, you have experience and resources most of us do not. many of us are old farts and, as any one will tell you, curmudgeons are cranky and opinionated. I for one will try to do better at listening as I have the selective hearing of a long married man. In case no one has not said thank you for all of your efforts, let me say Thank You. The vocal minority are the ones causing most of the angst. Me especially. As for maintenance and restoration, I going to take a bodywork class in January. I was looking for a welding class and found a auto-body repair class that includes it. Fred Moir Lynn MA Diesel preferred On 12/19/2010 3:30 PM, E M wrote: I would welcome more posts on restoration, and preservation. I do feel there are a number of posts on repairs, but I'd like to see more on maintance, and as I said, preservation and restoration of body and interiors, besides mechanical restorations. I have no personal interest in doing body restoration work, but I'd like to be better informed about the right way to do it on certain models, so I can better instruct those I'm paying as to how I'd like things done. As a starting point, one of the front jacking points on my W124 is showing some rust. I can't really tell is this was from prior collision work not done up to Mercedes standards, or blocked water flow passages in the past that have caused water to settle. I did notice the rubber spout under the side in questions is missing. Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 15:08, Jaime Kopchinskijaime...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, I did have some disagreements with Dr. Booth. But I recall they were about fundamentals of engine design and operation, not about anything specific on a car. I did have some issues with the idea that anything the dokor said was gold, never to be questioned. But he did alot of good things for all of us, and spread alot of good information... but he wasn't right about everything, and even a suggestion that he might be wrong caused problems. I was ahead of my time, and short on resources, to make dieseltech (and any real serious projects of my own) work. I've been on these lists for a long time... 10-12 years? I bought my first mercedes in 1998, a year after being able to legally drive. I grew up in a W123 and learned to drive in a W126. I'm in my 30s now. I'm an engineer and I work in the automotive industry, as some of you may know. (Which is why I took the attack on the engineers who design these cars personally) I've been working on many Mercedes project cars over the years and most of them I've never mentioned here. I feel that there is no interest in any real restoration or preservation work. The posts I do make are largely ignored. This isn't the fault of the list, its my fault for not finding a more suitable audience. I'm a big believer that original is best. Something Dr. Booth and I had in common. I enjoy these cars because they bring me and my passengers an experience of what things were like when they were new 20-30+ years ago. I take pride in making them operate as originally intended, design flaws and all. As I get older, I feel stronger and stronger about this. The projects I take on are usually nice cars that have been neglected. I bring them back to reliable daily service, and sell them off (rarely for profit, always because I enjoy doing it). I'm working on my third one this year right now and usually own 4-5 cars at a time. I'll be unsubscribing here shortly, but I wanted to set things straight before leaving. Whats written above is how I feel. You might not agree, and you're entitled to that opinion. As I said before, I'm pretty shocked by the reaction my comment has had. Once again, sorry if I offended any of you. Jaime On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Mitch Haleym...@voyager.net wrote: Ah, yes. Herr Doktor Booth and young Jaime had their disagreements back in the day, which would have predated young Walt by several years. Herr Doktor was of the 'stock is best' school of thought, which held the theory that Daimler-Benz spent millions every year on engineers who were paid to know something about the cars they designed. Those engineers clearly knew more than you or I, so why would we ever dream of trying to improve on their designs? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
I think any job worth doing, is worth doing properly, or as best as one can. Love to see some pics! Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 17:19, Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: I'd love to post pics of my rust repair projects. I really do high end restoration type metal repairs on my low end cars:) It makes no sense I know but I just can't help myself. I don't rember but is it possible to post attachments here? Sent from my iPhone On Dec 19, 2010, at 3:30 PM, E M pokieba...@gmail.com wrote: I would welcome more posts on restoration, and preservation. I do feel there are a number of posts on repairs, but I'd like to see more on maintance, and as I said, preservation and restoration of body and interiors, besides mechanical restorations. I have no personal interest in doing body restoration work, but I'd like to be better informed about the right way to do it on certain models, so I can better instruct those I'm paying as to how I'd like things done. As a starting point, one of the front jacking points on my W124 is showing some rust. I can't really tell is this was from prior collision work not done up to Mercedes standards, or blocked water flow passages in the past that have caused water to settle. I did notice the rubber spout under the side in questions is missing. Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 15:08, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, I did have some disagreements with Dr. Booth. But I recall they were about fundamentals of engine design and operation, not about anything specific on a car. I did have some issues with the idea that anything the dokor said was gold, never to be questioned. But he did alot of good things for all of us, and spread alot of good information... but he wasn't right about everything, and even a suggestion that he might be wrong caused problems. I was ahead of my time, and short on resources, to make dieseltech (and any real serious projects of my own) work. I've been on these lists for a long time... 10-12 years? I bought my first mercedes in 1998, a year after being able to legally drive. I grew up in a W123 and learned to drive in a W126. I'm in my 30s now. I'm an engineer and I work in the automotive industry, as some of you may know. (Which is why I took the attack on the engineers who design these cars personally) I've been working on many Mercedes project cars over the years and most of them I've never mentioned here. I feel that there is no interest in any real restoration or preservation work. The posts I do make are largely ignored. This isn't the fault of the list, its my fault for not finding a more suitable audience. I'm a big believer that original is best. Something Dr. Booth and I had in common. I enjoy these cars because they bring me and my passengers an experience of what things were like when they were new 20-30+ years ago. I take pride in making them operate as originally intended, design flaws and all. As I get older, I feel stronger and stronger about this. The projects I take on are usually nice cars that have been neglected. I bring them back to reliable daily service, and sell them off (rarely for profit, always because I enjoy doing it). I'm working on my third one this year right now and usually own 4-5 cars at a time. I'll be unsubscribing here shortly, but I wanted to set things straight before leaving. Whats written above is how I feel. You might not agree, and you're entitled to that opinion. As I said before, I'm pretty shocked by the reaction my comment has had. Once again, sorry if I offended any of you. Jaime On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Ah, yes. Herr Doktor Booth and young Jaime had their disagreements back in the day, which would have predated young Walt by several years. Herr Doktor was of the 'stock is best' school of thought, which held the theory that Daimler-Benz spent millions every year on engineers who were paid to know something about the cars they designed. Those engineers clearly knew more than you or I, so why would we ever dream of trying to improve on their designs? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
There are a couple of community colleges around here that offer auto body classes too. My personal experiences with auto body repairs, even the small ones that I started off feeling quit confident with, always ended in frustration I have a lot of admiration for people who have the skill to bring back cars to how they left the line, or often, to a higher standard. My skills are limited to a stone chip touch up kit, and even that often results in some pretty colourful language from me. I have a friend who is great with a TIG welder. As he has said, not always so humbly, he can weld to the two sharp edges of a couple of razor blades together, and you can hardly see the seam. He's exaggerating, but not by a whole lot! He's my hero. Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 17:27, Fred Moir fred.s...@verizon.net wrote: Jaime K, ED, et al. Jaime, please don't leave, you have experience and resources most of us do not. many of us are old farts and, as any one will tell you, curmudgeons are cranky and opinionated. I for one will try to do better at listening as I have the selective hearing of a long married man. In case no one has not said thank you for all of your efforts, let me say Thank You. The vocal minority are the ones causing most of the angst. Me especially. As for maintenance and restoration, I going to take a bodywork class in January. I was looking for a welding class and found a auto-body repair class that includes it. Fred Moir Lynn MA Diesel preferred On 12/19/2010 3:30 PM, E M wrote: I would welcome more posts on restoration, and preservation. I do feel there are a number of posts on repairs, but I'd like to see more on maintance, and as I said, preservation and restoration of body and interiors, besides mechanical restorations. I have no personal interest in doing body restoration work, but I'd like to be better informed about the right way to do it on certain models, so I can better instruct those I'm paying as to how I'd like things done. As a starting point, one of the front jacking points on my W124 is showing some rust. I can't really tell is this was from prior collision work not done up to Mercedes standards, or blocked water flow passages in the past that have caused water to settle. I did notice the rubber spout under the side in questions is missing. Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 15:08, Jaime Kopchinskijaime...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, I did have some disagreements with Dr. Booth. But I recall they were about fundamentals of engine design and operation, not about anything specific on a car. I did have some issues with the idea that anything the dokor said was gold, never to be questioned. But he did alot of good things for all of us, and spread alot of good information... but he wasn't right about everything, and even a suggestion that he might be wrong caused problems. I was ahead of my time, and short on resources, to make dieseltech (and any real serious projects of my own) work. I've been on these lists for a long time... 10-12 years? I bought my first mercedes in 1998, a year after being able to legally drive. I grew up in a W123 and learned to drive in a W126. I'm in my 30s now. I'm an engineer and I work in the automotive industry, as some of you may know. (Which is why I took the attack on the engineers who design these cars personally) I've been working on many Mercedes project cars over the years and most of them I've never mentioned here. I feel that there is no interest in any real restoration or preservation work. The posts I do make are largely ignored. This isn't the fault of the list, its my fault for not finding a more suitable audience. I'm a big believer that original is best. Something Dr. Booth and I had in common. I enjoy these cars because they bring me and my passengers an experience of what things were like when they were new 20-30+ years ago. I take pride in making them operate as originally intended, design flaws and all. As I get older, I feel stronger and stronger about this. The projects I take on are usually nice cars that have been neglected. I bring them back to reliable daily service, and sell them off (rarely for profit, always because I enjoy doing it). I'm working on my third one this year right now and usually own 4-5 cars at a time. I'll be unsubscribing here shortly, but I wanted to set things straight before leaving. Whats written above is how I feel. You might not agree, and you're entitled to that opinion. As I said before, I'm pretty shocked by the reaction my comment has had. Once again, sorry if I offended any of you. Jaime On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Mitch Haleym...@voyager.net wrote: Ah, yes. Herr Doktor Booth and young Jaime had their disagreements back in the day, which would have predated young Walt by several years. Herr Doktor was of the 'stock is best' school of thought, which held the theory that
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
Yes, that was a link to shutterfly. I did a quarter panel repair of the same nature on the same car. I'm surprised you remember. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 19, 2010, at 5:22 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Dimitri Seretakis wrote: I'd love to post pics of my rust repair projects. I really do high end restoration type metal repairs on my low end cars:) It makes no sense I know but I just can't help myself. I don't rember but is it possible to post attachments here? Sent from my iPhone Yes, but they have to wait for Kaleb to approve them and archive them on Okibenz. Didn't you post pics of a restoration where you made a new rear corner for a door? Or was that a link to a photobucket page? Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com writes: Yes, that was a link to shutterfly. I did a quarter panel repair of the same nature on the same car. I'm surprised you remember. I don't think anyone who saw those photographs would forget the craftsmanship evident. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
And he as since apologized. On 12/19/2010 8:55 AM, Allan Streib wrote: Gerry Archerarche...@embarqmail.com writes: I've been off and on the list since it was based in Canada, Walt. Dr. Booth (mhsrip) was the critisizer in chief and his legacy has been a custom of blunt criticism when someone was judged to be wrong. Dr. Booth was seldom wrong, but those who follow his custom sometimes are, and then the arguments begin. I don't recall Marshall EVER getting in the middle of a flame war or personally attacking anyone. He might tell them they were wrong, in fairly direct terms, on the basis of the facts or his experience, but I don't recall any personal attacks or insults. Jaime, for whatever his knowledge is (he was a college student when I first joined the mbz.org lists, so I would guess he's still in his 20s) doesn't appear to have Dr. Booth's maturity or restraint. He called people on this list ignorant and clueless, unprovoked. I reviewed that thread and he was not involved until that point. So from my perspective, he's the one who started whatever events unfolded. Allan -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 94 S500, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 350SDL, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
Here are some pics: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=284706 Sent from my iPhone On Dec 19, 2010, at 5:47 PM, E M pokieba...@gmail.com wrote: I think any job worth doing, is worth doing properly, or as best as one can. Love to see some pics! Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 17:19, Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: I'd love to post pics of my rust repair projects. I really do high end restoration type metal repairs on my low end cars:) It makes no sense I know but I just can't help myself. I don't rember but is it possible to post attachments here? Sent from my iPhone On Dec 19, 2010, at 3:30 PM, E M pokieba...@gmail.com wrote: I would welcome more posts on restoration, and preservation. I do feel there are a number of posts on repairs, but I'd like to see more on maintance, and as I said, preservation and restoration of body and interiors, besides mechanical restorations. I have no personal interest in doing body restoration work, but I'd like to be better informed about the right way to do it on certain models, so I can better instruct those I'm paying as to how I'd like things done. As a starting point, one of the front jacking points on my W124 is showing some rust. I can't really tell is this was from prior collision work not done up to Mercedes standards, or blocked water flow passages in the past that have caused water to settle. I did notice the rubber spout under the side in questions is missing. Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 15:08, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, I did have some disagreements with Dr. Booth. But I recall they were about fundamentals of engine design and operation, not about anything specific on a car. I did have some issues with the idea that anything the dokor said was gold, never to be questioned. But he did alot of good things for all of us, and spread alot of good information... but he wasn't right about everything, and even a suggestion that he might be wrong caused problems. I was ahead of my time, and short on resources, to make dieseltech (and any real serious projects of my own) work. I've been on these lists for a long time... 10-12 years? I bought my first mercedes in 1998, a year after being able to legally drive. I grew up in a W123 and learned to drive in a W126. I'm in my 30s now. I'm an engineer and I work in the automotive industry, as some of you may know. (Which is why I took the attack on the engineers who design these cars personally) I've been working on many Mercedes project cars over the years and most of them I've never mentioned here. I feel that there is no interest in any real restoration or preservation work. The posts I do make are largely ignored. This isn't the fault of the list, its my fault for not finding a more suitable audience. I'm a big believer that original is best. Something Dr. Booth and I had in common. I enjoy these cars because they bring me and my passengers an experience of what things were like when they were new 20-30+ years ago. I take pride in making them operate as originally intended, design flaws and all. As I get older, I feel stronger and stronger about this. The projects I take on are usually nice cars that have been neglected. I bring them back to reliable daily service, and sell them off (rarely for profit, always because I enjoy doing it). I'm working on my third one this year right now and usually own 4-5 cars at a time. I'll be unsubscribing here shortly, but I wanted to set things straight before leaving. Whats written above is how I feel. You might not agree, and you're entitled to that opinion. As I said before, I'm pretty shocked by the reaction my comment has had. Once again, sorry if I offended any of you. Jaime On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Ah, yes. Herr Doktor Booth and young Jaime had their disagreements back in the day, which would have predated young Walt by several years. Herr Doktor was of the 'stock is best' school of thought, which held the theory that Daimler-Benz spent millions every year on engineers who were paid to know something about the cars they designed. Those engineers clearly knew more than you or I, so why would we ever dream of trying to improve on their designs? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
I too agree Marshall was a great resource, but even I was sometimes annoyed by the fact that some folks thought his word was gold. He made mistakes about his facts, everyone does. There were a few times when he would say something and I had the opposite experience. On 12/19/2010 2:08 PM, Jaime Kopchinski wrote: Yes, I did have some disagreements with Dr. Booth. But I recall they were about fundamentals of engine design and operation, not about anything specific on a car. I did have some issues with the idea that anything the dokor said was gold, never to be questioned. But he did alot of good things for all of us, and spread alot of good information... but he wasn't right about everything, and even a suggestion that he might be wrong caused problems. I was ahead of my time, and short on resources, to make dieseltech (and any real serious projects of my own) work. I've been on these lists for a long time... 10-12 years? I bought my first mercedes in 1998, a year after being able to legally drive. I grew up in a W123 and learned to drive in a W126. I'm in my 30s now. I'm an engineer and I work in the automotive industry, as some of you may know. (Which is why I took the attack on the engineers who design these cars personally) I've been working on many Mercedes project cars over the years and most of them I've never mentioned here. I feel that there is no interest in any real restoration or preservation work. The posts I do make are largely ignored. This isn't the fault of the list, its my fault for not finding a more suitable audience. I'm a big believer that original is best. Something Dr. Booth and I had in common. I enjoy these cars because they bring me and my passengers an experience of what things were like when they were new 20-30+ years ago. I take pride in making them operate as originally intended, design flaws and all. As I get older, I feel stronger and stronger about this. The projects I take on are usually nice cars that have been neglected. I bring them back to reliable daily service, and sell them off (rarely for profit, always because I enjoy doing it). I'm working on my third one this year right now and usually own 4-5 cars at a time. I'll be unsubscribing here shortly, but I wanted to set things straight before leaving. Whats written above is how I feel. You might not agree, and you're entitled to that opinion. As I said before, I'm pretty shocked by the reaction my comment has had. Once again, sorry if I offended any of you. Jaime On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Mitch Haleym...@voyager.net wrote: Ah, yes. Herr Doktor Booth and young Jaime had their disagreements back in the day, which would have predated young Walt by several years. Herr Doktor was of the 'stock is best' school of thought, which held the theory that Daimler-Benz spent millions every year on engineers who were paid to know something about the cars they designed. Those engineers clearly knew more than you or I, so why would we ever dream of trying to improve on their designs? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3326 - Release Date: 12/19/10 -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 94 S500, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 350SDL, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
Jaime, I agree with Fred. Don't leave. You have been a resource for much wisdom. I have been on these lists for 8 or 9 years myself. I was on the old DieselTech list too. I never made it to banned until the last few years. I just don't post much. More of a lurker. (but not a troll, :)) I feel that there is no interest in any real restoration or preservation work. A bodyman friend of mine is going to help me learn bodywork this summer on my coupe. Not hack work either, but restoration. The posts I do make are largely ignored. I have close to 900 posts saved that I need to catalog. Yours are among them. I'm a big believer that original is best. Something Dr. Booth and I had in common. I enjoy these cars because they bring me and my passengers an experience of what things were like when they were new 20-30+ years ago. I take pride in making them operate as originally intended, design flaws and all. As I get older, I feel stronger and stronger about this. Part of the maturation process, I'm sure. I feel the same way and stronger every year. I am 51 now. I'll be unsubscribing here shortly, but I wanted to set things straight before leaving. I am certain I am not the only one who would be sad to see you go Rick Knoble 1985 300CD, 1987 190DT and a Harley with a Harmon Sound System ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
Jaime, I appreciate your prior contributions and I have always had a LOT of respect for you. After this post, my respect is restored, and I ask you to consider remaining. I was really surprised and shocked that you chose to flame the whole list after an extended absence. We all know that many engineering decisions are made by the marketing gurus and thrown over the wall (as a bomb) for the engineers to implement. Regardless of the source of the engineering decision, the success or failure is laid on engineering. Pointing out the design flaws and unnecessary features of a car designed before you were in college should not in any way be construed as a personal attack on you. You had nothing to do with it. You do have an important position to us. You are our only hope of getting the thoughts of those of us who regularly test the outer limits of product longevity (and DIY) back to the inner corridors and cubicles of the Daimler design and engineering folks. If my response to your flaming the list offended you, I apologize. I honestly thought you had already unsubscribed and would never see it anyway. In this world of video game war and VR design, it is remarkable to have a real staff engineer that works on the same old cars we do! Even if we don't comment on some of your posts, we want to hear what you have to say. Yes, I did have some disagreements with Dr. Booth. But I recall they were about fundamentals of engine design and operation, not about anything specific on a car. I did have some issues with the idea that anything the dokor said was gold, never to be questioned. But he did alot of good things for all of us, and spread alot of good information... but he wasn't right about everything, and even a suggestion that he might be wrong caused problems. I was ahead of my time, and short on resources, to make dieseltech (and any real serious projects of my own) work. I've been on these lists for a long time... 10-12 years? I bought my first mercedes in 1998, a year after being able to legally drive. I grew up in a W123 and learned to drive in a W126. I'm in my 30s now. I'm an engineer and I work in the automotive industry, as some of you may know. (Which is why I took the attack on the engineers who design these cars personally) I've been working on many Mercedes project cars over the years and most of them I've never mentioned here. I feel that there is no interest in any real restoration or preservation work. The posts I do make are largely ignored. This isn't the fault of the list, its my fault for not finding a more suitable audience. I'm a big believer that original is best. Something Dr. Booth and I had in common. I enjoy these cars because they bring me and my passengers an experience of what things were like when they were new 20-30+ years ago. I take pride in making them operate as originally intended, design flaws and all. As I get older, I feel stronger and stronger about this. The projects I take on are usually nice cars that have been neglected. I bring them back to reliable daily service, and sell them off (rarely for profit, always because I enjoy doing it). I'm working on my third one this year right now and usually own 4-5 cars at a time. I'll be unsubscribing here shortly, but I wanted to set things straight before leaving. Whats written above is how I feel. You might not agree, and you're entitled to that opinion. As I said before, I'm pretty shocked by the reaction my comment has had. Once again, sorry if I offended any of you. Jaime On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Ah, yes. Herr Doktor Booth and young Jaime had their disagreements back in the day, which would have predated young Walt by several years. Herr Doktor was of the 'stock is best' school of thought, which held the theory that Daimler-Benz spent millions every year on engineers who were paid to know something about the cars they designed. Those engineers clearly knew more than you or I, so why would we ever dream of trying to improve on their designs? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
Very impressive!! How is the textured paint applied? Is that a type of paint, or more a technique? Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 18:24, Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: Here are some pics: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=284706 Sent from my iPhone On Dec 19, 2010, at 5:47 PM, E M pokieba...@gmail.com wrote: I think any job worth doing, is worth doing properly, or as best as one can. Love to see some pics! Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 17:19, Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: I'd love to post pics of my rust repair projects. I really do high end restoration type metal repairs on my low end cars:) It makes no sense I know but I just can't help myself. I don't rember but is it possible to post attachments here? Sent from my iPhone On Dec 19, 2010, at 3:30 PM, E M pokieba...@gmail.com wrote: I would welcome more posts on restoration, and preservation. I do feel there are a number of posts on repairs, but I'd like to see more on maintance, and as I said, preservation and restoration of body and interiors, besides mechanical restorations. I have no personal interest in doing body restoration work, but I'd like to be better informed about the right way to do it on certain models, so I can better instruct those I'm paying as to how I'd like things done. As a starting point, one of the front jacking points on my W124 is showing some rust. I can't really tell is this was from prior collision work not done up to Mercedes standards, or blocked water flow passages in the past that have caused water to settle. I did notice the rubber spout under the side in questions is missing. Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 15:08, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, I did have some disagreements with Dr. Booth. But I recall they were about fundamentals of engine design and operation, not about anything specific on a car. I did have some issues with the idea that anything the dokor said was gold, never to be questioned. But he did alot of good things for all of us, and spread alot of good information... but he wasn't right about everything, and even a suggestion that he might be wrong caused problems. I was ahead of my time, and short on resources, to make dieseltech (and any real serious projects of my own) work. I've been on these lists for a long time... 10-12 years? I bought my first mercedes in 1998, a year after being able to legally drive. I grew up in a W123 and learned to drive in a W126. I'm in my 30s now. I'm an engineer and I work in the automotive industry, as some of you may know. (Which is why I took the attack on the engineers who design these cars personally) I've been working on many Mercedes project cars over the years and most of them I've never mentioned here. I feel that there is no interest in any real restoration or preservation work. The posts I do make are largely ignored. This isn't the fault of the list, its my fault for not finding a more suitable audience. I'm a big believer that original is best. Something Dr. Booth and I had in common. I enjoy these cars because they bring me and my passengers an experience of what things were like when they were new 20-30+ years ago. I take pride in making them operate as originally intended, design flaws and all. As I get older, I feel stronger and stronger about this. The projects I take on are usually nice cars that have been neglected. I bring them back to reliable daily service, and sell them off (rarely for profit, always because I enjoy doing it). I'm working on my third one this year right now and usually own 4-5 cars at a time. I'll be unsubscribing here shortly, but I wanted to set things straight before leaving. Whats written above is how I feel. You might not agree, and you're entitled to that opinion. As I said before, I'm pretty shocked by the reaction my comment has had. Once again, sorry if I offended any of you. Jaime On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Ah, yes. Herr Doktor Booth and young Jaime had their disagreements back in the day, which would have predated young Walt by several years. Herr Doktor was of the 'stock is best' school of thought, which held the theory that Daimler-Benz spent millions every year on engineers who were paid to know something about the cars they designed. Those engineers clearly knew more than you or I, so why would we ever dream of trying to improve on their designs? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
Hi Fred, I am looking to do the same thing (I was looking for a welding class') one of these days, but I just cant seem to find the time right now. One of these years I will do it, though. I will be curious to see how you make out with yours. Keep us posted, please. Tom Schuch SE Connecticut 1975 W115 300D and a bunch of BMWs Message: 8 Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 17:27:25 -0500 From: Fred Moir fred.s...@verizon.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate Message-ID: 4d0e86cd.3050...@verizon.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Jaime K, ED, et al. Jaime, please don't leave, you have experience and resources most of us do not. many of us are old farts and, as any one will tell you, curmudgeons are cranky and opinionated. I for one will try to do better at listening as I have the selective hearing of a long married man. In case no one has not said thank you for all of your efforts, let me say Thank You. The vocal minority are the ones causing most of the angst. Me especially. As for maintenance and restoration, I going to take a bodywork class in January. I was looking for a welding class and found a auto-body repair class that includes it. Fred Moir Lynn MA Diesel preferred ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
Thanks. By textured paint I assume you mean the areas down low? It is basically painted over undercoating. The regular off the shelf rubberized undercoating won't do. There are several options available that can duplicate this undercoating although I have been unable to 100% faithfully copy what was there. The original stuff is very rubbery and pliable and no product that I have found has had that quality. Anyway, I have used a variety of products. Wurth made a product which is meant to be applied with a special gun. I just applied it with a brush and stippled over the surface to duplicate the texture of the factory sprayed undercoating. 3M has a body shutz which is probably similar to the Wurth product. 3M also has a rocker panel spray which also takes some finishing over with a brush to smooth out the overly rough texture. Seam sealer is another product that can be used but again you have to be creative in its application to get a factory look. All these products then get primed and painted body color. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 19, 2010, at 7:21 PM, E M pokieba...@gmail.com wrote: Very impressive!! How is the textured paint applied? Is that a type of paint, or more a technique? Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 18:24, Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: Here are some pics: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=284706 Sent from my iPhone On Dec 19, 2010, at 5:47 PM, E M pokieba...@gmail.com wrote: I think any job worth doing, is worth doing properly, or as best as one can. Love to see some pics! Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 17:19, Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: I'd love to post pics of my rust repair projects. I really do high end restoration type metal repairs on my low end cars:) It makes no sense I know but I just can't help myself. I don't rember but is it possible to post attachments here? Sent from my iPhone On Dec 19, 2010, at 3:30 PM, E M pokieba...@gmail.com wrote: I would welcome more posts on restoration, and preservation. I do feel there are a number of posts on repairs, but I'd like to see more on maintance, and as I said, preservation and restoration of body and interiors, besides mechanical restorations. I have no personal interest in doing body restoration work, but I'd like to be better informed about the right way to do it on certain models, so I can better instruct those I'm paying as to how I'd like things done. As a starting point, one of the front jacking points on my W124 is showing some rust. I can't really tell is this was from prior collision work not done up to Mercedes standards, or blocked water flow passages in the past that have caused water to settle. I did notice the rubber spout under the side in questions is missing. Ed 300E On 19 December 2010 15:08, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, I did have some disagreements with Dr. Booth. But I recall they were about fundamentals of engine design and operation, not about anything specific on a car. I did have some issues with the idea that anything the dokor said was gold, never to be questioned. But he did alot of good things for all of us, and spread alot of good information... but he wasn't right about everything, and even a suggestion that he might be wrong caused problems. I was ahead of my time, and short on resources, to make dieseltech (and any real serious projects of my own) work. I've been on these lists for a long time... 10-12 years? I bought my first mercedes in 1998, a year after being able to legally drive. I grew up in a W123 and learned to drive in a W126. I'm in my 30s now. I'm an engineer and I work in the automotive industry, as some of you may know. (Which is why I took the attack on the engineers who design these cars personally) I've been working on many Mercedes project cars over the years and most of them I've never mentioned here. I feel that there is no interest in any real restoration or preservation work. The posts I do make are largely ignored. This isn't the fault of the list, its my fault for not finding a more suitable audience. I'm a big believer that original is best. Something Dr. Booth and I had in common. I enjoy these cars because they bring me and my passengers an experience of what things were like when they were new 20-30+ years ago. I take pride in making them operate as originally intended, design flaws and all. As I get older, I feel stronger and stronger about this. The projects I take on are usually nice cars that have been neglected. I bring them back to reliable daily service, and sell them off (rarely for profit, always because I enjoy doing it). I'm working on my third one this year right now and usually own 4-5 cars at a time. I'll be unsubscribing here shortly, but I wanted to set things straight before leaving. Whats written above is how I feel. You might not agree, and you're entitled to that opinion. As I said before, I'm pretty shocked by the reaction my
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
Yes I saw you where back and it seems back to your usual way of expressing yourself. I reckon I still have the right to express thoughts on this list or perhaps you are now in charge and only mad rants, directed at whole sections of list members, are allowed (ie. the haters and ignorant ones) and the hating ignorant ones are especially going to feel the wrath of Jabba the hutt and the ueber master of automotive knowledge, or has he had his dummy spit, grabbed his bat and joined a more intelligent MB forum, where they appreciate the 140 and it's gadgets and deride any MB that cost less than 20K to buy. Now perhaps you would be good enough to point out the rule that posts, of a certain age, cannot be commented upon. The original post from the master was on the 13th of December and unfortunately I have been busy, thus unable to catch up on all the posts sent by the members. There are lots of things wrong with me but I think the one you are referring to is the one where I am not happy for a list member to call the list (or some members thereof) ignorant because they declared the 140 to be a step back for Mercedes, or at the very least contain some very expensive components that fail in a time frame not usual for a Benz product. Perhaps Jaime could get a job at Daimler as a customer liaison executive, in charge of telling them that they are ignorant to be unhappy that their MB is spending a lot of time in the workshop and the reason the MB's of the mid 90's to late 00's are less reliable than the cars they replaced is that this is how automotive development works. We tried to build a more sophisticated machine on a smaller budget and it just didn't work out quite the way it was supposed to but that's OK with us, we get to sell some very expensive bits to you ignorant fools. Hendrik who is ignorant and hates some things, like machines that I can't repair Gary Hurst wrote: can't you guys leave anything alone? he's unsubscribed already and it's been a while. wtf is wrong with you? On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 9:05 AM, Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.auwrote: Not sure if I should say anything, I may be accused of being ignorant by the new high master of knowledge. However being a daredevil I shall try and sneak some stupidity past the overlord of automotive development information, guess if he catches me I'll cop a beating with the workshop manual of the W140 (and that's gotta hurt, especially if it includes the electronic section). Anyway I think the gripe the ignorant so and so's have is fair enough. The issue being that there are a lot of MB only parts on that car that fail eventually and trying to find a part out of a wreck is a lottery, considering that the part may fail again. Automotive development is good when it is taken one step after another but the leap between the 126 and 140 was mighty and a bit too far. As a side note the W220 also suffered from reliability problems due to more leaping. Technology is great when it works but when it doesn't and costs a fortune to fix it is a pain. I have heard stories of cars being wrecked because the accident damaged electrical equipment that is too expensive too replace, or damaged electrical lines which in turn damaged the various computers that are in a car. Hendrik who is hiding from the grand high overlord master of all things Mercedes Jaime Kopchinski wrote: Wow, the ignorance on this list has reached an all time high. You folks really haven't a clue about how automotive development works, and why an S class is designed the way they are. Not a clue. Jaime ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
you and penoff are identical cousins maybe? the fools have already driven jaime off the lists. what more do you want from him? he's left. everyone here must be like you? On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.auwrote: Yes I saw you where back and it seems back to your usual way of expressing yourself. I reckon I still have the right to express thoughts on this list or perhaps you are now in charge and only mad rants, directed at whole sections of list members, are allowed (ie. the haters and ignorant ones) and the hating ignorant ones are especially going to feel the wrath of Jabba the hutt and the ueber master of automotive knowledge, or has he had his dummy spit, grabbed his bat and joined a more intelligent MB forum, where they appreciate the 140 and it's gadgets and deride any MB that cost less than 20K to buy. Now perhaps you would be good enough to point out the rule that posts, of a certain age, cannot be commented upon. The original post from the master was on the 13th of December and unfortunately I have been busy, thus unable to catch up on all the posts sent by the members. There are lots of things wrong with me but I think the one you are referring to is the one where I am not happy for a list member to call the list (or some members thereof) ignorant because they declared the 140 to be a step back for Mercedes, or at the very least contain some very expensive components that fail in a time frame not usual for a Benz product. Perhaps Jaime could get a job at Daimler as a customer liaison executive, in charge of telling them that they are ignorant to be unhappy that their MB is spending a lot of time in the workshop and the reason the MB's of the mid 90's to late 00's are less reliable than the cars they replaced is that this is how automotive development works. We tried to build a more sophisticated machine on a smaller budget and it just didn't work out quite the way it was supposed to but that's OK with us, we get to sell some very expensive bits to you ignorant fools. Hendrik who is ignorant and hates some things, like machines that I can't repair Gary Hurst wrote: can't you guys leave anything alone? he's unsubscribed already and it's been a while. wtf is wrong with you? On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 9:05 AM, Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au wrote: Not sure if I should say anything, I may be accused of being ignorant by the new high master of knowledge. However being a daredevil I shall try and sneak some stupidity past the overlord of automotive development information, guess if he catches me I'll cop a beating with the workshop manual of the W140 (and that's gotta hurt, especially if it includes the electronic section). Anyway I think the gripe the ignorant so and so's have is fair enough. The issue being that there are a lot of MB only parts on that car that fail eventually and trying to find a part out of a wreck is a lottery, considering that the part may fail again. Automotive development is good when it is taken one step after another but the leap between the 126 and 140 was mighty and a bit too far. As a side note the W220 also suffered from reliability problems due to more leaping. Technology is great when it works but when it doesn't and costs a fortune to fix it is a pain. I have heard stories of cars being wrecked because the accident damaged electrical equipment that is too expensive too replace, or damaged electrical lines which in turn damaged the various computers that are in a car. Hendrik who is hiding from the grand high overlord master of all things Mercedes Jaime Kopchinski wrote: Wow, the ignorance on this list has reached an all time high. You folks really haven't a clue about how automotive development works, and why an S class is designed the way they are. Not a clue. Jaime ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
Ok, I'm a nobody with less experience than most list member's pinky toes, but I won't stand people outright flaming. I don't care to know the exact nature of what was going on when I first joined the list, but it seems to be repeating itself. I don't know why. I don't care who started it, or their reasons. Are not we all above this? Does everything now devolve to people acting like rabid dogs? I joined this list to learn, not to get my inbox accosted with vitriolic hate. One would think that people who take pride in owning or working on a Benz would be better suited at turning the other cheek and acting congenial to their fellow man, especially during this season. Walt On Dec 19, 2010 12:49 AM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com wrote: you and penoff are identical cousins maybe? the fools have already driven jaime off the lists. what more do you want from him? he's left. everyone here must be like you? On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au wrote: Yes I saw you where back and it seems back to your usual way of expressing yourself. I reckon I still have the right to express thoughts on this list or perhaps you are now in charge and only mad rants, directed at whole sections of list members, are allowed (ie. the haters and ignorant ones) and the hating ignorant ones are especially going to feel the wrath of Jabba the hutt and the ueber master of automotive knowledge, or has he had his dummy spit, grabbed his bat and joined a more intelligent MB forum, where they appreciate the 140 and it's gadgets and deride any MB that cost less than 20K to buy. Now perhaps you would be good enough to point out the rule that posts, of a certain age, cannot be commented upon. The original post from the master was on the 13th of December and unfortunately I have been busy, thus unable to catch up on all the posts sent by the members. There are lots of things wrong with me but I think the one you are referring to is the one where I am not happy for a list member to call the list (or some members thereof) ignorant because they declared the 140 to be a step back for Mercedes, or at the very least contain some very expensive components that fail in a time frame not usual for a Benz product. Perhaps Jaime could get a job at Daimler as a customer liaison executive, in charge of telling them that they are ignorant to be unhappy that their MB is spending a lot of time in the workshop and the reason the MB's of the mid 90's to late 00's are less reliable than the cars they replaced is that this is how automotive development works. We tried to build a more sophisticated machine on a smaller budget and it just didn't work out quite the way it was supposed to but that's OK with us, we get to sell some very expensive bits to you ignorant fools. Hendrik who is ignorant and hates some things, like machines that I can't repair Gary Hurst wrote: can't you guys leave anything alone? he's unsubscribed already and it's been a while. wtf is wrong with you? On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 9:05 AM, Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au wrote: Not sure if I should say anything, I may be accused of being ignorant by the new high master of knowledge. However being a daredevil I shall try and sneak some stupidity past the overlord of automotive development information, guess if he catches me I'll cop a beating with the workshop manual of the W140 (and that's gotta hurt, especially if it includes the electronic section). Anyway I think the gripe the ignorant so and so's have is fair enough. The issue being that there are a lot of MB only parts on that car that fail eventually and trying to find a part out of a wreck is a lottery, considering that the part may fail again. Automotive development is good when it is taken one step after another but the leap between the 126 and 140 was mighty and a bit too far. As a side note the W220 also suffered from reliability problems due to more leaping. Technology is great when it works but when it doesn't and costs a fortune to fix it is a pain. I have heard stories of cars being wrecked because the accident damaged electrical equipment that is too expensive too replace, or damaged electrical lines which in turn damaged the various computers that are in a car. Hendrik who is hiding from the grand high overlord master of all things Mercedes Jaime Kopchinski wrote: Wow, the ignorance on this list has reached an all time high. You folks really haven't a clue about how automotive development works, and why an S class is designed the way they are. Not a clue. Jaime ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
if you wish to learn, it's probably not best to drive jaime to unsubscribe. he's not only a good fella, but has much specialized knowledge. first to drive him off and then to just keep piling on is not stylish i also got an email from richard, the founder of this list, regarding the endless slander he receives here you guys really act viciously and abnormally and i don't think you see it at all On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 1:25 AM, Walt Zarnoch zarnoch...@gmail.com wrote: Ok, I'm a nobody with less experience than most list member's pinky toes, but I won't stand people outright flaming. I don't care to know the exact nature of what was going on when I first joined the list, but it seems to be repeating itself. I don't know why. I don't care who started it, or their reasons. Are not we all above this? Does everything now devolve to people acting like rabid dogs? I joined this list to learn, not to get my inbox accosted with vitriolic hate. One would think that people who take pride in owning or working on a Benz would be better suited at turning the other cheek and acting congenial to their fellow man, especially during this season. Walt On Dec 19, 2010 12:49 AM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com wrote: you and penoff are identical cousins maybe? the fools have already driven jaime off the lists. what more do you want from him? he's left. everyone here must be like you? On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au wrote: Yes I saw you where back and it seems back to your usual way of expressing yourself. I reckon I still have the right to express thoughts on this list or perhaps you are now in charge and only mad rants, directed at whole sections of list members, are allowed (ie. the haters and ignorant ones) and the hating ignorant ones are especially going to feel the wrath of Jabba the hutt and the ueber master of automotive knowledge, or has he had his dummy spit, grabbed his bat and joined a more intelligent MB forum, where they appreciate the 140 and it's gadgets and deride any MB that cost less than 20K to buy. Now perhaps you would be good enough to point out the rule that posts, of a certain age, cannot be commented upon. The original post from the master was on the 13th of December and unfortunately I have been busy, thus unable to catch up on all the posts sent by the members. There are lots of things wrong with me but I think the one you are referring to is the one where I am not happy for a list member to call the list (or some members thereof) ignorant because they declared the 140 to be a step back for Mercedes, or at the very least contain some very expensive components that fail in a time frame not usual for a Benz product. Perhaps Jaime could get a job at Daimler as a customer liaison executive, in charge of telling them that they are ignorant to be unhappy that their MB is spending a lot of time in the workshop and the reason the MB's of the mid 90's to late 00's are less reliable than the cars they replaced is that this is how automotive development works. We tried to build a more sophisticated machine on a smaller budget and it just didn't work out quite the way it was supposed to but that's OK with us, we get to sell some very expensive bits to you ignorant fools. Hendrik who is ignorant and hates some things, like machines that I can't repair Gary Hurst wrote: can't you guys leave anything alone? he's unsubscribed already and it's been a while. wtf is wrong with you? On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 9:05 AM, Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au wrote: Not sure if I should say anything, I may be accused of being ignorant by the new high master of knowledge. However being a daredevil I shall try and sneak some stupidity past the overlord of automotive development information, guess if he catches me I'll cop a beating with the workshop manual of the W140 (and that's gotta hurt, especially if it includes the electronic section). Anyway I think the gripe the ignorant so and so's have is fair enough. The issue being that there are a lot of MB only parts on that car that fail eventually and trying to find a part out of a wreck is a lottery, considering that the part may fail again. Automotive development is good when it is taken one step after another but the leap between the 126 and 140 was mighty and a bit too far. As a side note the W220 also suffered from reliability problems due to more leaping. Technology is great when it works but when it doesn't and costs a fortune to fix it is a pain. I have heard stories of cars being wrecked because the accident damaged electrical equipment that is too expensive too replace, or damaged electrical lines which in turn damaged the various computers that are in a car. Hendrik who is hiding from the grand high overlord master of
Re: [MBZ] more 140 ignorance and hate
I don't think I perrsonally drove anyone away. I rarely intervene in the general flow of the list, and what little I do say is usualy looking for tidbits of information to help with my project, or a reply to an off-topic discussion. I guess I slipped up by giving an opinion about the double pane window thing, but that is hardly a reason for anyone to fly off the handle. I have no personal issue with anyone here, I understand we all have a difference in opinion, and that is a good thing. I just can't see why this is going on right now. Walt On Dec 19, 2010 1:29 AM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com wrote: if you wish to learn, it's probably not best to drive jaime to unsubscribe. he's not only a good fella, but has much specialized knowledge. first to drive him off and then to just keep piling on is not stylish i also got an email from richard, the founder of this list, regarding the endless slander he receives here you guys really act viciously and abnormally and i don't think you see it at all On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 1:25 AM, Walt Zarnoch zarnoch...@gmail.com wrote: Ok, I'm a nobody with less experience than most list member's pinky toes, but I won't stand people outright flaming. I don't care to know the exact nature of what was going on when I first joined the list, but it seems to be repeating itself. I don't know why. I don't care who started it, or their reasons. Are not we all above this? Does everything now devolve to people acting like rabid dogs? I joined this list to learn, not to get my inbox accosted with vitriolic hate. One would think that people who take pride in owning or working on a Benz would be better suited at turning the other cheek and acting congenial to their fellow man, especially during this season. Walt On Dec 19, 2010 12:49 AM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com wrote: you and penoff are identical cousins maybe? the fools have already driven jaime off the lists. what more do you want from him? he's left. everyone here must be like you? On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au wrote: Yes I saw you where back and it seems back to your usual way of expressing yourself. I reckon I still have the right to express thoughts on this list or perhaps you are now in charge and only mad rants, directed at whole sections of list members, are allowed (ie. the haters and ignorant ones) and the hating ignorant ones are especially going to feel the wrath of Jabba the hutt and the ueber master of automotive knowledge, or has he had his dummy spit, grabbed his bat and joined a more intelligent MB forum, where they appreciate the 140 and it's gadgets and deride any MB that cost less than 20K to buy. Now perhaps you would be good enough to point out the rule that posts, of a certain age, cannot be commented upon. The original post from the master was on the 13th of December and unfortunately I have been busy, thus unable to catch up on all the posts sent by the members. There are lots of things wrong with me but I think the one you are referring to is the one where I am not happy for a list member to call the list (or some members thereof) ignorant because they declared the 140 to be a step back for Mercedes, or at the very least contain some very expensive components that fail in a time frame not usual for a Benz product. Perhaps Jaime could get a job at Daimler as a customer liaison executive, in charge of telling them that they are ignorant to be unhappy that their MB is spending a lot of time in the workshop and the reason the MB's of the mid 90's to late 00's are less reliable than the cars they replaced is that this is how automotive development works. We tried to build a more sophisticated machine on a smaller budget and it just didn't work out quite the way it was supposed to but that's OK with us, we get to sell some very expensive bits to you ignorant fools. Hendrik who is ignorant and hates some things, like machines that I can't repair Gary Hurst wrote: can't you guys leave anything alone? he's unsubscribed already and it's been a while. wtf is wrong with you? On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 9:05 AM, Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au wrote: Not sure if I should say anything, I may be accused of being ignorant by the new high master of knowledge. However being a daredevil I shall try and sneak some stupidity past the overlord of automotive development information, guess if he catches me I'll cop a beating with the workshop manual of the W140 (and that's gotta hurt, especially if it includes the electronic section). Anyway I think the gripe the ignorant so and so's have is fair enough. The issue being that there are a lot of MB only parts on that car that fail eventually and trying to find a part out of a wreck is a lottery, considering that the part may fail again.
