Re: [MBZ] 1973 Mercedes ?s smoke, valve seals, vacuum pump, sunroof
On Oct 13, 2012, at 10:36 AM, "Conrad Trybus" wrote: > Hello, >I would like to ask for some knowledge about a 1973 280. I am in high > school and this is my first car. As one would expect from a 16 year old, I > don't have a whole lot of automotive experience or skill, but I have been > working on restoring an old Jeep for a few years, so I'm not completely > mechanically inept. >First of all, the car smokes after getting up to temperature(maybe after > driving 4-9 miles). It is a white smoke from the exhaust. That would indicate a bad head gasket, not seals. White smoke = coolant, blue smoke = oil, black smoke = fuel. > Also, if I'm careful, can I reuse all of the gaskets and seals, or would I > have to buy new ones. New. We have a parts supplier on this list, and his prices are the best of anyone's. >I was also wondering about the vacuum pump. Is it really necessary at all? A gasser with a vacuum pump? Yes, if it's there, it's necessary. German engineers are funny like that. > >Also, the sun roof doesn't work. It worked for a couple days after I > bought the car, then stopped working. When I press the open button nothing > happens, but when I press the close button I hear the electric motor. On other models it is operated with a cable. Might be a cable issue. > Maybe I should buy a new switch just incase we killed it (any good places to > buy one). Rusty at buymbparts.BIZ 1-800-741-5252 >Finally, are there any little nuances about operating and maintaining an > old Mercedes W114 that I should know about? Never owned one. > Other than these things I mentioned, I love the car and hope to keep it in > good condition Jaime? Mitch? Loren? Kaleb? Craig? Roger? Someone who knows more than me please help this young man out. We were all young once... Rick Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1973 Mercedes ?s smoke, valve seals, vacuum pump, sunroof
Rick Knoble wrote: Jaime? Mitch? Loren? Kaleb? Craig? Roger? Someone who knows more than me please help this young man out. We were all young once... If the sunroof is similar to W116/W123, it probably needs a good cleaning, and should have a hex drive on the motor for emergency operation. The right lube is called Gelitpaste or something like that, I got mine from Rusty. If the motor is only getting power in one direction, it might be worth taking the switch apart and cleaning it. Disassemble inside a pillowcase or gallon ziploc or something so you don't lose any pieces. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1973 Mercedes ?s smoke, valve seals, vacuum pump, sunroof
Mitch Haley wrote: If the sunroof is similar to W116/W123, it probably needs a good cleaning, and should have a hex drive on the motor for emergency operation. If a picture is worth 1000 words, what's an 8 minute video worth? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgckziEuTdw ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1973 Mercedes ?s smoke, valve seals, vacuum pump, sunroof
Hi Conrad, and welcome! I didn't get started wrenching until after college, so you are already ahead of me. :) > I would like to ask for some knowledge about a 1973 280. I bought it a few months The letters at the end are important, if there is an 'E' at the end it is fuel injected, if not it has a carburetor. I think both were available? Though there is a reasonable chance someone here will correct me based on the year. :) ) I will try to repair whatever I can myself before even thinking of taking into a mechanic. Good plan, even when I do hire a mechanic they seem to know less than I do about my cars. With something this old it helps to diy as much as possible. :) > First of all, the car smokes after getting up to temperature(maybe after driving 4-9 miles). It is a white smoke Might it have a bluish tinge? Try holding a sheet of printer paper behind the smoke next time you park in the daylight. White is water/steam, blue is oil. Oil is pretty okay, water not so much. :/ ) from the exhaust. Because of this I've been careful about regularly checking the oil. Also make sure the radiator stays full. I think there is no overflow tank on that engine? If not you will probably always be a little below the filler neck, and that's okay. If it is oil, checking the oil is good, but unless you are leaving a huge plume of smoke you have some time to fix the problem and probably won't notice the loss in the oil pan for a while. Also, if you and your dad still aren't sure about the smoke, find the teacher at your school with the oldest car and ask for advice. At my high school it was the math teacher, or if you have a mechanic class that person. I am quite certain they would be happy to look at it. ) Can I do it with the head still on the engine? If so, wouldn't the pistons have to be at top dead center to do job? There will be markings externally so you can do this. Someone here will be able to tell you exactly where those are, but not me. :) ) What I was wondering is how to turn the crank in order to do this. On the diesels you can turn the power steering bolt, and there is enough tension on the accessory belt to turn the engine. You should be able to do the same. If not you can probably get a socket on the crank bolt - it should be a little recessed - to get a breaker bar on it. Only tip here is, guard the radiator! My 115 radiator was a few hundred dollars several years ago, I would not be surprised if they were over $500 by now. ) Also, if I'm careful, can I reuse all of the gaskets and seals, or would I have to buy new ones. The paper gaskets are probably going to tear up as you remove them, they are also very cheap. Seals you have some discretion; if you can leave the car in the driveway while parts ship you can decide once everything is apart. I usually order them because I would rather be able to finish in one day, and worst case I have some spares. > I was also wondering about the vacuum pump. Is it really necessary at all? Would there be any benefit in removing it? Does it put extra strain on the engine? What would I have to do to remove it? Necessary: yes, it will drive either the carburetor or the injector timing. Yes, it adds load. You could theoretically create a computer to replace it... but don't, it's a fine old car as it is. :) > Also, the sun roof doesn't work. It worked for a couple days after I bought the car, then stopped working. When I press the open button nothing happens, but when I press the close button I hear the electric motor. The seller said it Probably a bad switch. Pull it out and open it up (inside a shoe box, pieces and bearings will pop out). Try to clean everything and figure out how it should go back together. :) ) We tried to repair the switch to the best of out ability, but I feel like it was better off before. I should have kept reading. :) You could buy a new switch, but really you can get them back together - it often takes me several tries. I usually work on that sort of thing when I'm in a parking lot waiting for someone. ) Maybe I should buy a new switch just incase we killed it (any good places to buy one). Rusty knows a lot about these cars, and can order any parts you need. He will also be able to tell you what gaskets and seals you have to replace, should replace, and probably won't have to replace for a given job. Also a nice guy on the phone, and stands behind his products. Web site is buymbparts.biz but call him, phone prices are better and he'll give you all the time you need to get the right parts. (If you call and someone else answers, you should probably ask for Rusty unless you are 100% sure of your order. Tom is nice but doesn't have Rusty's experience. And no I don't get a commission, just a very satisfied customer. :) > Finally, are there any little nuances about operating and maintaining an old Mercedes W114 that I should know about? 0) If it has a carburetor, le
Re: [MBZ] 1973 Mercedes ?s smoke, valve seals, vacuum pump, sunroof
If it has a vacuum pump, I'm almost positive it's fuel injected (D- Jet), which is a VAST improvement over the Solex carb fitted on those models. No one, including Solex and MB, ever got that carb to work well. As noted, white smoke is coolant, and you can smell it. Typically it's most obvious when first started and it will really show up on cold days. Pale grey stinky smoke along with low power and a funny subdued engine sound is transmission fluid, although if you have a vacuum pump it's fairly unlikely you have a vacuum modulator connected directly to the intake, but check. If there is transmission fluid in the vacuum line from the modulator, you must replace the modulator as soon as possible -- transmission fluid in the combustion chambers is bad mojo (think stuck rings and badly chewed cylinder walls). If you have a leaking modulator, you don't have leaking valve stem seals. Those cause blue smoke on startup from oil leaking down into the cylinders when the engine is off, and excessive oil consumption. You can also get some blue smoke on deceleration, but never enough to see from the driver's seat. No white smoke from valve guide seals. Sunroof desperately needs lubrication. Don't use ANYTHING but the official MB paste, it's the only thing that actually works and doesn't cause the accumulation of crud. If someone used grease, clean it all off and use the proper MB stuff, it's a soft wax. Works perfectly. Have fun! Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1973 Mercedes ?s smoke, valve seals, vacuum pump, sunroof
Can I do [new seals] with the head still on the engine? I think so, yes. I've done it on a V8. If so, wouldn't the pistons have to be at top dead center to do job? Yes. I use a 3/4" drive socket set from Harbor Freight for this, on the crankshaft nut. are there any little nuances about operating and maintaining an old Mercedes W114 that I should know about? Rust. They love to rust, so stay on top of that. Maybe some 'English undercoating? Does it have AC? If you can, try to get some oil on the blower fan bearings. It is not easy. But anything you can do to extend the life of that fan is very much worth doing. The joke is that they hung the blower fan from a string and then built the car around it. Not so funny once yours goes bad. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1973 Mercedes ?s smoke, valve seals, vacuum pump, sunroof
On Oct 13, 2012 6:13 PM, "Peter Frederick" wrote: > > As noted, white smoke is coolant, and you can smell it. Typically it's most obvious when first started and it will really show up on cold days. Until I saw white smoke I found it easy to think oil smoke was white - the "blue" has just a tinge of darkness. Once you have seen both it is easier to tell, but it's hard to verify over email. Best, Tim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1973 Mercedes ?s smoke, valve seals, vacuum pump, sunroof
Tim C wrote: Until I saw white smoke I found it easy to think oil smoke was white - the "blue" has just a tinge of darkness. Once you have seen both it is easier to tell, but it's hard to verify over email. Once you know what oil smoke smells like, it's easy to tell if you're standing back there. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1973 Mercedes ?s smoke, valve seals, vacuum pump, sunroof
Yep, 8+ years ago, when I went to Winston-Salem to check out a for-sale, "showroom" '87 300D (82 kmi), friend with me laughed at me and continues even now to enjoy telling our other friends about how I got down and sniffed the exhaust while making my decision to buy it. It's at 127 kmi now and still has no burned-engine-oil odor from exhaust. 'Learned my lesson from '81 300D (125 kmi) that I bought from 90-year-old friend 4 years earlier - it burned a quart per 100 miles. 'Day after I bought it, I changed oil and filters; inside of oil filter canister, cartridge, etc., was DRY - yes, DRY, very black but DRY; air filter in place was some "off-the-shelf" POS an inch too short for the canister - i. e., NO air filtering. (Friend drove the car 2 or 3 times a day down long dirt lane/path (lotsa fine dust) to his tank (liquid/fuels tank) manufacturing plant.) PO friend had paid local quick change crooks for many years to change oil and filters every 3 kmi. Oil filter had not been touched in many years. Wilton - Original Message - From: "Mitch Haley" To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2012 8:09 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1973 Mercedes ?s smoke, valve seals, vacuum pump, sunroof Tim C wrote: Until I saw white smoke I found it easy to think oil smoke was white - the "blue" has just a tinge of darkness. Once you have seen both it is easier to tell, but it's hard to verify over email. Once you know what oil smoke smells like, it's easy to tell if you're standing back there. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1973 Mercedes ?s smoke, valve seals, vacuum pump, sunroof
WILTON wrote: PO friend had paid local quick change crooks for many years to change oil and filters every 3 kmi. Oil filter had not been touched in many years. Would have been tempted to reverse the sale so he could file a claim with their liability carrier over the damage they did to 'his' car. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1973 Mercedes ?s smoke, valve seals, vacuum pump, sunroof
Yep, sorry SOB's ruined an otherwise perfectly good ivory 123, and I got to pay for it. Wilton - Original Message - From: "Mitch Haley" To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2012 11:42 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1973 Mercedes ?s smoke, valve seals, vacuum pump, sunroof WILTON wrote: PO friend had paid local quick change crooks for many years to change oil and filters every 3 kmi. Oil filter had not been touched in many years. Would have been tempted to reverse the sale so he could file a claim with their liability carrier over the damage they did to 'his' car. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1973 Mercedes ?s smoke, valve seals, vacuum pump, sunroof
On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 10:56:02 -0400 "WILTON" wrote: > air filter in place was some "off-the-shelf" POS an inch too short for > the canister - i. e., NO air filtering. I once looked at a vehicle for sale that had no air filter. I passed. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1973 Mercedes ?s smoke, valve seals, vacuum pump, sunroof
Welcome aboard, Conrad. I have some really good condition used parts if you need lighting or bumpers, doors and relays as well. Washer pump and blower fan are in stock as well. No idea on gas engines, but I would posit that you need to replace the head gasket, since you either have water in the fuel or a coolant leak. Best to rebuild the engine, or replace it. The sun roof has a broken cable. Best to just skip having a sunroof. A car of that vintage would probably have a leak and you would need new seals. Focus attention on keeping it running and safe. Suspension, tires, cooling, steering. First, replace all your filters and fluids. Change all fuses for known good NEW. The body style is very common, so has almost no value. This makes them hard to source parts, unless you have a good pull a part yard that gets old ones regularly. Many parts are shared with the R107 roadsters, and those parts will be of more value, so will be missing. clay 1974 450sl - Frosch - Two tone green 1972 220D - Gump - She is green, simple and ran 1995 E300D - Cleo - Used by the Queen of Denial POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers On Oct 13, 2012, at 11:30 AM, Rick Knoble wrote: > On Oct 13, 2012, at 10:36 AM, "Conrad Trybus" wrote: > >> Hello, >> I would like to ask for some knowledge about a 1973 280. I am in high >> school and this is my first car. As one would expect from a 16 year old, I >> don't have a whole lot of automotive experience or skill, but I have been >> working on restoring an old Jeep for a few years, so I'm not completely >> mechanically inept. >> First of all, the car smokes after getting up to temperature(maybe after >> driving 4-9 miles). It is a white smoke from the exhaust. > > That would indicate a bad head gasket, not seals. White smoke = coolant, > blue smoke = oil, black smoke = fuel. > >> Also, if I'm careful, can I reuse all of the gaskets and seals, or would I >> have to buy new ones. > > New. We have a parts supplier on this list, and his prices are the best of > anyone's. > >> I was also wondering about the vacuum pump. Is it really necessary at all? > > A gasser with a vacuum pump? Yes, if it's there, it's necessary. German > engineers are funny like that. >> >> Also, the sun roof doesn't work. It worked for a couple days after I >> bought the car, then stopped working. When I press the open button nothing >> happens, but when I press the close button I hear the electric motor. > > On other models it is operated with a cable. Might be a cable issue. >> Maybe I should buy a new switch just incase we killed it (any good places to >> buy one). > > Rusty at buymbparts.BIZ 1-800-741-5252 >> Finally, are there any little nuances about operating and maintaining an >> old Mercedes W114 that I should know about? > > Never owned one. >> Other than these things I mentioned, I love the car and hope to keep it in >> good condition > > Jaime? Mitch? Loren? Kaleb? Craig? Roger? Someone who knows more than me > please help this young man out. We were all young once... > > Rick > Sent from my iPhone > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
