Re: [MBZ] Diesel Conversion into my 250C
OK, so maybe I missed it, but what is wrong with the engine that is in the car now? Joseph Shaw wrote: Thanks, Kaleb- Again, EXCELLENT advice and info-exactly the kind of info I was looking for! Unfortunately, I just let a '75 300D get away that was one of the possible donors I was thinking of. The one that is nearby is a later one-'80 or so, so I guess it won't work! I really appreciate your input! BTW, mine is not a pristine 250C by any means, and has some small rust spots. Was redone some years back, and not done great, but was done decent. There are a few isolated weak spots that are rusting, and unfortunately, rusting enough that there are a few small holes here and there. However, it does LOOK good, and is definitely savable and worth saving. Now, here is another factor I hadn't thrown in, which will make some of you go, WHAT THE SAM HILL ARE YOU THINKING??? but my 250C has supposedly an original 50K. I was only thinking about the diesel for the fuel economy factor, and because I am afraid I may NEVER get the carbs synched real well again after this rebuild! So, IF I do this, I will have a good, low-mile 250 (2.8) engine for sale is the good news, I guess! Thanks again! Michael Thanks! Michael The only thing that would be of concern is if the hood line is lower on the coupe than the sedan, making the engine too tall. A person would probably just have to measure the height of the engine to see. If would have to be a 617 from a 75 or 76 300D though, which would be hard to find. You cant use an engine out of a 123 because the oil filter housing is in the wrong spot and will not fit. OK Don wrote: I think it was John from Texas who has put a 617 engine into a 114 chassis - sig is Ajaguar ? Haven't sen any posts from him in a few days - must be our driving one of his Benz's. -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250 Okie Benz Auto parts-email for used parts ___ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] For new parts see www.buymbparts.com For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net ___ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] For new parts see www.buymbparts.com For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250 Okie Benz Auto parts-email for used parts
Re: [MBZ] Diesel Conversion into my 250C
Mike, Let me let you in on a galactic secret *anything* is possible :) There is no such limit as impossible, only highly improbable. I've seen really really odd things. (and I mean really odd) I've seen a De Lorean DMC-12 with a Mazda Wankel Rotary I've seen a Chevrolet S-10 with a Mercedes I4 Diesel I've seen a Volkswagen Beetle with a GM V6 I've seen a House Fly I've seen a Stir Fry I've seen just about everything, but I've never seen an elephant fly. Sorry, got on a roll there. The point is this, anything you can possible imagine, dream up, think of, write down, draft out on paper, or simply talk about concerning a car can be done. The only question you need to ask is this: Is this economical enough for me to consider doing within my budget? Anything else is gravy. I mean, on the Beetle (Old Beetle) they had to route coolant lines through the chassis, make fundimental changes in the way the body mounted, put a radiator beneath the trunk and gas tank and at the proper angle that it would be able to keep the V6 (which didn't fit under the hood anyway and had to have this whale tail like thing crafted and put over it) cooled. But tell you what, you guys get me a 250C and an old 300D, and I'll make it work, put together diagrams, put up a website, etc and then everyone can do it. But they have to be free, 250C rust free and 300D engine running :) Everything else is gravy. On 6/23/05, Joseph Shaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Clay- Well, not sure if I will ever get the chance! I have not gotten ANY feedback from anyone here that has done it or even said it was possible! I figured someone would have done this before, or some mechanic that is on thelist would know or something. Unfortunately for me I am not in an area where there are many Benz's around, so I have no access to look at a couple of diesel engines and see if the mounts are similar! I may have to drive 60 miles to where the one is for sale and see if I can look at it!!! I'll keep you posted if I find anything. Michael -- Knowledge is power... Power Corrupts. Study hard... Be Evil.
Re: [MBZ] Diesel Conversion into my 250C
Not sure if the hook up for the early 300D is going to be issue with an older w115. From the stuff I find at the PnP, an old 616 with the pull start will fit pretty easy in your 250c My guess for how to attack it, would involve removing the dash. This alone will dissuade most people. Think of it as a chance to fix blower motor issues and heat exchanger cleaning. Avoid having A/C because that makes it orders of magnitude more hassle. As long as the coupe is in superb body condition with no rust at all, I would be fine tossing a diesel in. If there are body issues, then I am not sure I want to have so many angles to attack. Rust and getting the engine in would make it hard for me to focus on one job. On the sedans the engine compartment looks the same, you just have to figure out which hole is for what component. Engine height may restrict use and location of air filters from newer motors. Also the electronics will be harder to work with in the older body. May also have issue with ancillary components, like PS and filters. Were I to have a great body 250c with dead engine, and a rust hulk 240D 115, I would completely remove the gas engine and install the complete engine compartment from the 240. Move the Temp gauge with the engine. I would also move the complete transmission and drive train. Use the diesel dash as a template for the holes to drill in the gas dash. If you are using a contemporary engine, you will need a hole for the pull start and the salt shaker glow which will transfer over from the 240 dash. Fuel tanks will have to swap as well with fuel lines. Good time to upgrade to Viton. Hook the sender unit for gauge with the clean tank, free of bugs and clean screens. Also going to have to redo the exhaust system, so get new. That about deals with the torque and electronic issues I could see. Anybody who knows more than I do, which may be most, will no doubt be able to plug the holes large enough to drive through On Thursday, June 23, 2005, at 06:30 AM, Joseph Shaw wrote: Clay- Well, not sure if I will ever get the chance! I have not gotten ANY feedback from anyone here that has done it or even said it was possible! I figured someone would have done this before, or some mechanic that is on thelist would know or something. Unfortunately for me I am not in an area where there are many Benz's around, so I have no access to look at a couple of diesel engines and see if the mounts are similar! I may have to drive 60 miles to where the one is for sale and see if I can look at it!!! I'll keep you posted if I find anything. Michael A Frankenbenz If you get the brass ones to go ahead, let me know how it works out, because I want to turn a 250C in to a diesel convertable On Wednesday, June 22, 2005, at 05:09 AM, Joseph Shaw wrote: I am curious as to the possibility of swapping engines in Mercedes vehicles. I have the 250C I have been discussing the carbs in, but have seen a couple of 300D wrecks with supposedly not bad miles on the engine around here lately. I would love to convert mine, but was wondering if this was an easy swap or a difficult swap. Mine is a '72 250C, which uses the 2.8L, inline 6 engine. I think this is a very similar set-up to the 280 and 300 diesel engines of the same vintage, and it may be as simple as a drop in, although likely a different tranny would be needed as well. Is this as easy as it looks, or is it a major undertaking? Also, if this is a possibility, what year did they change engines to make this easier v. more difficult? I think the '70's to early 80's 300D's all looked about the same, but don't know specifics. Thanks to all you that know this kind of info for any advice you can provide! J. Michael Shaw, II, D.C. -- Clay Seattle Bioburner 1972 220D - Gump 1995 E300D - Cleo 1987 300SDL - POS - DOA
Re: [MBZ] Diesel Conversion into my 250C
Ed- Well, first, let me thank you for at least giving me SOME sort of answer. I appreciate it! I guess I was speaking/writing from my experience on a couple of other lists I am on. I am on an old Toyota Celicas list, and on an IHC (International Harvesters) list. Both of these forums are very free-form and creative, and I enjoy hearing many tales about conversion issues. The thing is, with both of these, there are many incestuous major conversions that are very easily possible, so perhaps I am spoiled. With the Celicas, many of the engines are simply later and more progressive versions of the same engine, and thus, swapping different engines are quite easy. With the IH's, things are even more basic, and almost anything is very possible with a hoist, a wrench, and a couple hours. There are some minor variations, and in the '70's when, for a period, their demand outweighed their productivity, they threw some AMC engines into their chassis. Outside of those few specialty vehicles, many IH's swaps are simple bolt-out and bolt-in applications. And since these groups (Toyota and IH) are a couple of the few vehicles I respect as having longevity similar to the older Mercedes. Thus, for some reason, I assumed the same simplicity may be part of Mercedes success. Perhaps this is so, perhaps not. SO, if anyone is still paying attention, and having had a 300D, and looked at, tinkered with, and dealt with several 240D'D and a 280D(?) some point, I thought the set-ups looked very similar. Thus, I thought someone could tell me if, with the exception of the vacuum locks, etc, this was a simple bolt-in and bolt-out propsition. Yes, I realize that with a grinder, a welder, and some metal, you can fit about anything into about anything, I was very curious of the 300D engine fit onto the same motor mounts, fit in the same general front-to-back area, etc, so that I would not have to mod tranny mounts, etc. With an IH this is possible. With many Toyotas this is possible. SO, IS THIS POSSIBLE WITH A MERCEDES? To make this swap without a welder and a grinder? There-maybe that question makes my main inquiry clearer. Thanks for the input, and for showing me the flaw in my line of questioning! Michael Mike, Let me let you in on a galactic secret *anything* is possible :) There is no such limit as impossible, only highly improbable. I've seen really really odd things. (and I mean really odd) I've seen a De Lorean DMC-12 with a Mazda Wankel Rotary I've seen a Chevrolet S-10 with a Mercedes I4 Diesel I've seen a Volkswagen Beetle with a GM V6 I've seen a House Fly I've seen a Stir Fry I've seen just about everything, but I've never seen an elephant fly. Sorry, got on a roll there. The point is this, anything you can possible imagine, dream up, think of, write down, draft out on paper, or simply talk about concerning a car can be done. The only question you need to ask is this: Is this economical enough for me to consider doing within my budget? Anything else is gravy. I mean, on the Beetle (Old Beetle) they had to route coolant lines through the chassis, make fundimental changes in the way the body mounted, put a radiator beneath the trunk and gas tank and at the proper angle that it would be able to keep the V6 (which didn't fit under the hood anyway and had to have this whale tail like thing crafted and put over it) cooled. But tell you what, you guys get me a 250C and an old 300D, and I'll make it work, put together diagrams, put up a website, etc and then everyone can do it. But they have to be free, 250C rust free and 300D engine running :) Everything else is gravy. On 6/23/05, Joseph Shaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Clay- Well, not sure if I will ever get the chance! I have not gotten ANY feedback from anyone here that has done it or even said it was possible! I figured someone would have done this before, or some mechanic that is on thelist would know or something. Unfortunately for me I am not in an area where there are many Benz's around, so I have no access to look at a couple of diesel engines and see if the mounts are similar! I may have to drive 60 miles to where the one is for sale and see if I can look at it!!! I'll keep you posted if I find anything. Michael -- Knowledge is power... Power Corrupts. Study hard... Be Evil. ___ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] For new parts see www.buymbparts.com For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] Diesel Conversion into my 250C
On Thursday, June 23, 2005, at 04:40 PM, Ed Booher wrote: I've seen a De Lorean DMC-12 with a Mazda Wankel Rotary Anything to get rid of the garbage PRV V-6 they came with... the main flaw in an otherwise terrific car, several owners have told me. Alex Chamberlain [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300D Turbo '01 VW Beetle TDI (wife's)
Re: [MBZ] Diesel Conversion into my 250C
Mike, My $0.02, as long as the engine was installed in a 115 before, it will install in a 114. You may have to deal with firewall and torque items, but as Ed points out, a cherry body 250 and a rust bucket 300D with motor within spec 616 engine, and you are golden On Thursday, June 23, 2005, at 09:14 PM, Joseph Shaw wrote: Ed- Well, first, let me thank you for at least giving me SOME sort of answer. I appreciate it! I guess I was speaking/writing from my experience on a couple of other lists I am on. I am on an old Toyota Celicas list, and on an IHC (International Harvesters) list. Both of these forums are very free-form and creative, and I enjoy hearing many tales about conversion issues. The thing is, with both of these, there are many incestuous major conversions that are very easily possible, so perhaps I am spoiled. With the Celicas, many of the engines are simply later and more progressive versions of the same engine, and thus, swapping different engines are quite easy. With the IH's, things are even more basic, and almost anything is very possible with a hoist, a wrench, and a couple hours. There are some minor variations, and in the '70's when, for a period, their demand outweighed their productivity, they threw some AMC engines into their chassis. Outside of those few specialty vehicles, many IH's swaps are simple bolt-out and bolt-in applications. And since these groups (Toyota and IH) are a couple of the few vehicles I respect as having longevity similar to the older Mercedes. Thus, for some reason, I assumed the same simplicity may be part of Mercedes success. Perhaps this is so, perhaps not. SO, if anyone is still paying attention, and having had a 300D, and looked at, tinkered with, and dealt with several 240D'D and a 280D(?) some point, I thought the set-ups looked very similar. Thus, I thought someone could tell me if, with the exception of the vacuum locks, etc, this was a simple bolt-in and bolt-out propsition. Yes, I realize that with a grinder, a welder, and some metal, you can fit about anything into about anything, I was very curious of the 300D engine fit onto the same motor mounts, fit in the same general front-to-back area, etc, so that I would not have to mod tranny mounts, etc. With an IH this is possible. With many Toyotas this is possible. SO, IS THIS POSSIBLE WITH A MERCEDES? To make this swap without a welder and a grinder? There-maybe that question makes my main inquiry clearer. Thanks for the input, and for showing me the flaw in my line of questioning! Michael Mike, Let me let you in on a galactic secret *anything* is possible :) There is no such limit as impossible, only highly improbable. I've seen really really odd things. (and I mean really odd) I've seen a De Lorean DMC-12 with a Mazda Wankel Rotary I've seen a Chevrolet S-10 with a Mercedes I4 Diesel I've seen a Volkswagen Beetle with a GM V6 I've seen a House Fly I've seen a Stir Fry I've seen just about everything, but I've never seen an elephant fly. Sorry, got on a roll there. The point is this, anything you can possible imagine, dream up, think of, write down, draft out on paper, or simply talk about concerning a car can be done. The only question you need to ask is this: Is this economical enough for me to consider doing within my budget? Anything else is gravy. I mean, on the Beetle (Old Beetle) they had to route coolant lines through the chassis, make fundimental changes in the way the body mounted, put a radiator beneath the trunk and gas tank and at the proper angle that it would be able to keep the V6 (which didn't fit under the hood anyway and had to have this whale tail like thing crafted and put over it) cooled. But tell you what, you guys get me a 250C and an old 300D, and I'll make it work, put together diagrams, put up a website, etc and then everyone can do it. But they have to be free, 250C rust free and 300D engine running :) Everything else is gravy. On 6/23/05, Joseph Shaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Clay- Well, not sure if I will ever get the chance! I have not gotten ANY feedback from anyone here that has done it or even said it was possible! I figured someone would have done this before, or some mechanic that is on thelist would know or something. Unfortunately for me I am not in an area where there are many Benz's around, so I have no access to look at a couple of diesel engines and see if the mounts are similar! I may have to drive 60 miles to where the one is for sale and see if I can look at it!!! I'll keep you posted if I find anything. Michael -- Knowledge is power... Power Corrupts. Study hard... Be Evil. ___ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] For new parts see www.buymbparts.com For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] Diesel Conversion into my 250C
Mike, My $0.02, as long as the engine was installed in a 115 before, it will install in a 114. You may have to deal with firewall and torque items, but as Ed points out, a cherry body 250 and a rust bucket 300D with motor within spec 616 engine, and you are golden Good info, guys! Thanks! This is the general direction of what I need to know! I will let you know if I ever get a chance to do a direct comparison and see what I can come up with! Michael
Re: [MBZ] Diesel Conversion into my 250C
The only thing that would be of concern is if the hood line is lower on the coupe than the sedan, making the engine too tall. A person would probably just have to measure the height of the engine to see. If would have to be a 617 from a 75 or 76 300D though, which would be hard to find. You cant use an engine out of a 123 because the oil filter housing is in the wrong spot and will not fit. OK Don wrote: I think it was John from Texas who has put a 617 engine into a 114 chassis - sig is Ajaguar ? Haven't sen any posts from him in a few days - must be our driving one of his Benz's. -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250 Okie Benz Auto parts-email for used parts
Re: [MBZ] Diesel Conversion into my 250C
Thanks, Kaleb- Again, EXCELLENT advice and info-exactly the kind of info I was looking for! Unfortunately, I just let a '75 300D get away that was one of the possible donors I was thinking of. The one that is nearby is a later one-'80 or so, so I guess it won't work! I really appreciate your input! BTW, mine is not a pristine 250C by any means, and has some small rust spots. Was redone some years back, and not done great, but was done decent. There are a few isolated weak spots that are rusting, and unfortunately, rusting enough that there are a few small holes here and there. However, it does LOOK good, and is definitely savable and worth saving. Now, here is another factor I hadn't thrown in, which will make some of you go, WHAT THE SAM HILL ARE YOU THINKING??? but my 250C has supposedly an original 50K. I was only thinking about the diesel for the fuel economy factor, and because I am afraid I may NEVER get the carbs synched real well again after this rebuild! So, IF I do this, I will have a good, low-mile 250 (2.8) engine for sale is the good news, I guess! Thanks again! Michael Thanks! Michael The only thing that would be of concern is if the hood line is lower on the coupe than the sedan, making the engine too tall. A person would probably just have to measure the height of the engine to see. If would have to be a 617 from a 75 or 76 300D though, which would be hard to find. You cant use an engine out of a 123 because the oil filter housing is in the wrong spot and will not fit. OK Don wrote: I think it was John from Texas who has put a 617 engine into a 114 chassis - sig is Ajaguar ? Haven't sen any posts from him in a few days - must be our driving one of his Benz's. -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250 Okie Benz Auto parts-email for used parts ___ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] For new parts see www.buymbparts.com For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
