Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement advice

[Dieselhead]

On inline engines i have put in a new chain many times by myself. 
Definitely have a heavy wire (16 ga copper or larger or a coathanger) 
on each end with loops beg enough they won't drop inside..  I have 
had a locking forceps with relief behind the jaws that I use for 
fishing out the chain whenever I let the backside (tensioner) drop. 
I learned my lesson, and have not dropped a chain for maybe 30 years. 
On the backside of the chain, it is not critical to maintain tension.


I take out the radiator so I can get the crank pulley with a ratchet. 
I turn it with one hand while hanging onto the new chain with the 
other hand. Every half turn or so, I stop and pull out the backside 
chain.  After you get about halfway, the weight of the old chain keep 
it tensioned.  Then you can roll in the remainder in nonstop.  You 
need to keep the new chain against the teeth of the camshaft sprocket 
so the valves stay in time, or remove the camshaft so all the valves 
stay shut.  The offside, you just drape down the side of the engine.


On a V engine (gas or diesel) you want to have the special tool to 
keep the old and new chains under control and  against the camshaft 
sprocket.



I once had to take out an engine because I dropped the center link of 
the repair link inside the engine.  Now I always use a magnet to keep 
them under control.


As others have pointed out, there is a keeper by the timing advance 
to keep the chain engaged with the inj. timing sprocket, and the pan 
is fitted so as to keep the chain engaged to the crankshaft sprocket. 
Because of this, you don't have to worry about jumping time other 
than the camshaft.  Allow yourself a day so you don't feel rushed. 
You should be done in about 4 hours or less the first time, depending 
on how many times you need to go for coathangers and other stuff.  It 
is not hard.  it just requires that everything is done right.  I 
never use any special tools, except with the aforementioned V- 
engine. (M116)





 > > dseretakis wrote:

 >
 > Thanks Peter. Do you think that fancy tool is worth it?



 Craig wrote:

 Attached is a picture of a cheap version of the fancy tool
 someone on the list made sometime on the past.

 I'll let others comment on its efficacy and appropriateness.


Hey!  That looks like mine!

Oh - it _is_ mine.  heh.

It worked well for me.  Still have it, ready for the next car.
I was able to do the job by my self.

--   Philip

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Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement advice

[Fmiser]

> > dseretakis wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Peter. Do you think that fancy tool is worth it?

> Craig wrote:
> 
> Attached is a picture of a cheap version of the fancy tool
> someone on the list made sometime on the past.
> 
> I'll let others comment on its efficacy and appropriateness.

Hey!  That looks like mine! 

Oh - it _is_ mine.  heh.

It worked well for me.  Still have it, ready for the next car.
I was able to do the job by my self.

--   Philip

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Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement advice

[dseretakis]

Maybe next time. 200K miles away!

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 28, 2012, at 2:24 PM, Andrew Strasfogel  wrote:

> I'm unfortunately not available to help out this time.
> 
> On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 10:38 AM,   wrote:
>> Haha. It's not mileage but stretch. Last I checked mine was at 5 degrees.
>> So are you helping out? Everyone here recommends one person to turn 
>> crankshaft and two people to pull and feed the chain - you, me, Gael!
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Dec 28, 2012, at 11:16 AM, Andrew Strasfogel  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hey Dimitri,
>>> 
>>> You should have changed the timing chain at 100K miles so first roll
>>> back the odometer.
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 7:12 AM, Mitch Haley  wrote:
 dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote:
> 
> Thanks. This is great stuff. About the tool; I'm not sure how it works. It
> keeps the chain against the cam but doesn't the chain still have to be
> pulled to feed it through and keep things taught?
 
 
 Yes, it lets you turn the engine carefully while feeding a new chain down
 the drivers side of the cam sprocket and pulling the old chain off the
 passenger side without the chain falling off the sprockets. Usually takes
 one or two people to feed the chains while another turns the crank bolt.
 
 
 ___
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 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> ___
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>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> ___
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement advice

[Andrew Strasfogel]

I'm unfortunately not available to help out this time.

On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 10:38 AM,   wrote:
> Haha. It's not mileage but stretch. Last I checked mine was at 5 degrees.
> So are you helping out? Everyone here recommends one person to turn 
> crankshaft and two people to pull and feed the chain - you, me, Gael!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 28, 2012, at 11:16 AM, Andrew Strasfogel  wrote:
>
>> Hey Dimitri,
>>
>> You should have changed the timing chain at 100K miles so first roll
>> back the odometer.
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 7:12 AM, Mitch Haley  wrote:
>>> dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Thanks. This is great stuff. About the tool; I'm not sure how it works. It
 keeps the chain against the cam but doesn't the chain still have to be
 pulled to feed it through and keep things taught?
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, it lets you turn the engine carefully while feeding a new chain down
>>> the drivers side of the cam sprocket and pulling the old chain off the
>>> passenger side without the chain falling off the sprockets. Usually takes
>>> one or two people to feed the chains while another turns the crank bolt.
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>>
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

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Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement advice

[dseretakis]

Haha. It's not mileage but stretch. Last I checked mine was at 5 degrees. 
So are you helping out? Everyone here recommends one person to turn crankshaft 
and two people to pull and feed the chain - you, me, Gael!

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 28, 2012, at 11:16 AM, Andrew Strasfogel  wrote:

> Hey Dimitri,
> 
> You should have changed the timing chain at 100K miles so first roll
> back the odometer.
> 
> On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 7:12 AM, Mitch Haley  wrote:
>> dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks. This is great stuff. About the tool; I'm not sure how it works. It
>>> keeps the chain against the cam but doesn't the chain still have to be
>>> pulled to feed it through and keep things taught?
>> 
>> 
>> Yes, it lets you turn the engine carefully while feeding a new chain down
>> the drivers side of the cam sprocket and pulling the old chain off the
>> passenger side without the chain falling off the sprockets. Usually takes
>> one or two people to feed the chains while another turns the crank bolt.
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

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Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement advice

[Andrew Strasfogel]

Hey Dimitri,

You should have changed the timing chain at 100K miles so first roll
back the odometer.

On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 7:12 AM, Mitch Haley  wrote:
> dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>> Thanks. This is great stuff. About the tool; I'm not sure how it works. It
>> keeps the chain against the cam but doesn't the chain still have to be
>> pulled to feed it through and keep things taught?
>
>
> Yes, it lets you turn the engine carefully while feeding a new chain down
> the drivers side of the cam sprocket and pulling the old chain off the
> passenger side without the chain falling off the sprockets. Usually takes
> one or two people to feed the chains while another turns the crank bolt.
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

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Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement advice

[Mitch Haley]

dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote:

Thanks. This is great stuff. About the tool; I'm not sure how it works. It 
keeps the chain against the cam but doesn't the chain still have to be pulled 
to feed it through and keep things taught?


Yes, it lets you turn the engine carefully while feeding a new chain down the 
drivers side of the cam sprocket and pulling the old chain off the passenger 
side without the chain falling off the sprockets. Usually takes one or two 
people to feed the chains while another turns the crank bolt.


___
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Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement advice

[dseretakis]

Thanks. This is great stuff. About the tool; I'm not sure how it works. It 
keeps the chain against the cam but doesn't the chain still have to be pulled 
to feed it through and keep things taught?

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 27, 2012, at 11:22 PM, Craig  wrote:

> On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 22:11:52 -0600 OK Don  wrote:
> 
>> It should save some time, but I don't think it's worth it iff you don't
>> replace timeing chains more than two or three times in your life. I
>> followed Peter's process almost exactly all three times I've done it. I
>> used three pieces of 12 ga. house wire to tie the chain to the cam
>> sprocket
>> - keeping two on it at all times.
>> Yes, it is slow to rotate a bit, move wire ties, rotate a bit, etc. till
>> it's all done, but better than the anxiety when the cam jumps a tooth ot
>> two, and you're not even sure which way, it's so fast. (BTDT) I was
>> lucky, the engine would not turn over once a piston hit the valve while
>> turning the engine by hand - guessed the right direction, moved the
>> chain one link, and it ran fine for the next 100,000+ miles.
> 
> I really must have been fortunate when I changed the timing chain on our
> '64 190Dc (OM621 or OM636) with no special tools and not much in the way
> of instructions other than the Chilton manual and had no difficulties.
> 
> 
> Craig
> 
> P.S. Below are old emails on the subject. I sent a copy of the picture of
> the chain link tool mentioned in the second email to the list
> tonight. So, whenever Kaleb approves it ...
> 
> 
> 
> From: jfre...@aol.com
> To: merce...@striplin.net
> Reply-To: Mercedes mailing list 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] 300D timing chain replacement
> Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 02:15:44 EST
> Sender: mercedes-boun...@striplin.net
> X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 2340
> 
> 
> In a message dated 11/9/2005 6:15:19 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
> t...@brdgstn.com writes:
> 
> Contemplaing doing timing chain overdue at 270K miles.  I have  been
> doing some research.  It appears a chain buddy;, ie standby  helper is
> required. Can this job be done totally solo?  I have not  met any of my
> neighbors or friends/wifes/kids or enemies who gives a rats  a-- for my
> 77 300D or would be worthy or interested in  helping.
> 
> 
> 
> Tom,
> 
> I have done 3 chains solo, and never dropped a link.  The most recent
> was the easiest, due to a tip from one of the listers.  I  tied  the end
> of a long bungee cord overhead and used that to take up the old  chain.
> You tie it offset from center of the car, and not too  high, so that the
> new chain always is pulled over the cam gear.  My  basket ball pole was
> handy and I used that. This frees up you to  turn the crank and watch the
> new chain feed in.  Figure on moving the  bungee hook in the chain about
> 4 times so you don't have to stretch it too  tight.
> 
> Two caveats.  
> 
> You MUST relieve cranking pressure by pulling the glow plugs (my choice)
> or the injectors.  The new chain goes in so much easier, and there is no
> chance of an accidental power stroke.
> 
> Before you break the chain, you should always tie the chain ends to  the
> cam gear so that if anything goes wrong you still have your timing.
> Also make sure that the service link picks up all the link plates on both
> chains  or one will fold back and the result will block the chain from
> clearing the  crank gear as clearance is very tight there.  Once you have
> the new chain  attached to the old chain, and tension on the old chain
> with the bungee,  you can cut the ties.  Same deal when you are done and
> ready to splice the  chain--tie those ends down!  Do not trust your grip
> in this oily  environment! 
> On many models you must remove the chain tensioner, because they have a  
> stepping mechanism in them that takes up the slack as the chain wears.
> You cannot push this kind back. I like this kind the best because they do
> not rattle when the engine is first started.  Many install a new
> tensioner with any  new chain job.  It is certain that you will see heavy
> spring wear on your  old one, should you take the piston out to reload it 
> 
> Good luck, you can do this!  
> 
> Jim  Friesen
> Phoenix AZ
> 79 300SD, 261 K miles 
> 98 ML 320, 138 K  miles
> 
> =
> 
> From: Loren Faeth 
> To: Mercedes mailing list 
> Reply-To: Mercedes mailing list 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] 300D timing chain replacement
> Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 11:36:27 -0600
> Sender: mercedes-boun...@striplin.net
> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14
> 
> I've always done the chain solo.  I like to tie or vicegrip the chain to 
> the cam sprocket before breaking a link.  I also tie a small wire to each 
> side of the chain before i break it.  I have learned to stuff rags in the 
> chaincase cavity in case you DO drop something.  (Need to pull the rags
> out before you actually roll in the new ch

Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement advice

[OK Don]

It should save some time, but I don't think it's worth it iff you don't
replace timeing chains more than two or three times in your life. I
followed Peter's process almost exactly all three times I've done it. I
used three pieces of 12 ga. house wire to tie the chain to the cam sprocket
- keeping two on it at all times.
Yes, it is slow to rotate a bit, move wire ties, rotate a bit, etc. till
it's all done, but better than the anxiety when the cam jumps a tooth ot
two, and you're not even sure which way, it's so fast. (BTDT) I was lucky,
the engine would not turn over once a piston hit the valve while turning
the engine by hand - guessed the right direction, moved the chain one link,
and it ran fine for the next 100,000+ miles.

On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 7:26 PM, Peter Frederick wrote:

> If you can find one to borrow, I certainly would.  Not sure I'd buy one
> for a couple hundred bucks for one use though.
>
>
> Peter
>
> __**_
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives 
> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com
>



-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
2012 Passat TDI DSG
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
1957 C182A
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Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement advice

[Craig]

On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 22:11:52 -0600 OK Don  wrote:

> It should save some time, but I don't think it's worth it iff you don't
> replace timeing chains more than two or three times in your life. I
> followed Peter's process almost exactly all three times I've done it. I
> used three pieces of 12 ga. house wire to tie the chain to the cam
> sprocket
> - keeping two on it at all times.
> Yes, it is slow to rotate a bit, move wire ties, rotate a bit, etc. till
> it's all done, but better than the anxiety when the cam jumps a tooth ot
> two, and you're not even sure which way, it's so fast. (BTDT) I was
> lucky, the engine would not turn over once a piston hit the valve while
> turning the engine by hand - guessed the right direction, moved the
> chain one link, and it ran fine for the next 100,000+ miles.

I really must have been fortunate when I changed the timing chain on our
'64 190Dc (OM621 or OM636) with no special tools and not much in the way
of instructions other than the Chilton manual and had no difficulties.


Craig

P.S. Below are old emails on the subject. I sent a copy of the picture of
 the chain link tool mentioned in the second email to the list
 tonight. So, whenever Kaleb approves it ...



From: jfre...@aol.com
To: merce...@striplin.net
Reply-To: Mercedes mailing list 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 300D timing chain replacement
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 02:15:44 EST
Sender: mercedes-boun...@striplin.net
X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 2340

 
In a message dated 11/9/2005 6:15:19 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
t...@brdgstn.com writes:

Contemplaing doing timing chain overdue at 270K miles.  I have  been
doing some research.  It appears a chain buddy;, ie standby  helper is
required. Can this job be done totally solo?  I have not  met any of my
neighbors or friends/wifes/kids or enemies who gives a rats  a-- for my
77 300D or would be worthy or interested in  helping.



Tom,
 
I have done 3 chains solo, and never dropped a link.  The most recent
was the easiest, due to a tip from one of the listers.  I  tied  the end
of a long bungee cord overhead and used that to take up the old  chain.
You tie it offset from center of the car, and not too  high, so that the
new chain always is pulled over the cam gear.  My  basket ball pole was
handy and I used that. This frees up you to  turn the crank and watch the
new chain feed in.  Figure on moving the  bungee hook in the chain about
4 times so you don't have to stretch it too  tight.
 
Two caveats.  
 
You MUST relieve cranking pressure by pulling the glow plugs (my choice)
or the injectors.  The new chain goes in so much easier, and there is no
chance of an accidental power stroke.
 
Before you break the chain, you should always tie the chain ends to  the
cam gear so that if anything goes wrong you still have your timing.
Also make sure that the service link picks up all the link plates on both
chains  or one will fold back and the result will block the chain from
clearing the  crank gear as clearance is very tight there.  Once you have
the new chain  attached to the old chain, and tension on the old chain
with the bungee,  you can cut the ties.  Same deal when you are done and
ready to splice the  chain--tie those ends down!  Do not trust your grip
in this oily  environment! 
On many models you must remove the chain tensioner, because they have a  
stepping mechanism in them that takes up the slack as the chain wears.
You cannot push this kind back. I like this kind the best because they do
not rattle when the engine is first started.  Many install a new
tensioner with any  new chain job.  It is certain that you will see heavy
spring wear on your  old one, should you take the piston out to reload it 
 
Good luck, you can do this!  

Jim  Friesen
Phoenix AZ
79 300SD, 261 K miles 
98 ML 320, 138 K  miles

=

From: Loren Faeth 
To: Mercedes mailing list 
Reply-To: Mercedes mailing list 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 300D timing chain replacement
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 11:36:27 -0600
Sender: mercedes-boun...@striplin.net
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14

I've always done the chain solo.  I like to tie or vicegrip the chain to 
the cam sprocket before breaking a link.  I also tie a small wire to each 
side of the chain before i break it.  I have learned to stuff rags in the 
chaincase cavity in case you DO drop something.  (Need to pull the rags
out before you actually roll in the new chain.)  I once dropped the
center link down a OM621.  It wedged between the teeth of the crank
sprocket.  I ended up having to take the engine out and flip it over and
pull the pan.  Ruined my day!  That was probably about the 5th chain i
replaced, and i got sloppy.  Never hurry or get sloppy messing with the
chain.

Many years ago i acquired a medical locking forceps that has relief
behind the jaws.  I can lock it on one side of the chain, then if

Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement advice

[Peter Frederick]

If you can find one to borrow, I certainly would.  Not sure I'd buy  
one for a couple hundred bucks for one use though.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement advice

[clay monroe]

If you are going to open it up, you may as well do the tensioners and guides.  

If you are pretty sure everything else is in good condition, you can just 
remove the valve cover and spin the crank until you get to the link.  Split the 
link after you mark everything as to position.  Three people make this job 
really simple.  Have person one taking up the slack, person two manning the 
crank with a 27mm socket, person three gets to maintain tension and feed the 
new chain.  It is good to have a 12 inch length of wire hooked to the back end 
of the new chain for person three to hold onto.  Keep going until person one 
has control of the new chain and person three is left with a bit of new chain 
and wire to hold.  Remove old chain from new at the link and use a new link to 
hook the ends of the new chain together.  Person two then cranks around once 
more to make sure everything is good and no teeth have skipped.


clay 


1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
1972 220D - Gump - She is green, simple and ran
1995 E300D - Cleo - Used by the Queen of Denial
POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers







On Dec 27, 2012, at 3:23 PM, dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote:

> I might be changing the timing chain on my 82 240D in the next three weeks. 
> I've never done this and so will be enlisting the help of a friend in DC. 
> (Andrew, you are welcome to help!) The car has around 245,000 miles. 
> 
> Any tips on the procedure? What special tools, if any, I might need?
> Should I replace the tensioner, tension rail, guide rail or rails?
> 
> Anything to beware of?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement advice

[dseretakis]

Thanks Peter. Do you think that fancy tool is worth it?

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 27, 2012, at 6:56 PM, Peter Frederick  wrote:

> You should inspect the rails now - - if there are grooves worn in them, they 
> need to be replaced.  Put them in when you do the new chain.
> 
> A chain breaking/swaging tool is nice, but not absolutely necessary.
> 
> If you can fish one up, there is a bracket to bolts over the cam sprocket 
> that holds the chain on both sides and is open on the top, this makes putting 
> a new one in very easy.
> 
> If you don't have the tool, what you want to do is remove the chain tensioner 
> and upper chain guide on the injection pump side.  Wire tie the chain to both 
> sides of the cam, then grind off the rivet head on one link at the top.
> 
> Drive the link out the back, watch you don't drop the center piece into the 
> crankcase.
> 
> Use the new link you bought (usually NOT in the box with the new chain) to 
> attach the new chain to the old one on the side that will pull into the chain 
> cover when you rotate the engine in the normal direction.  I think that's the 
> driver's side, but make sure, I get things backwards (dyslexia is great, you 
> get to make all sorts of unexpected trips when you turn the wrong way).
> 
> Hook some wire (clothes hanger, mechanics wire, etc) to the other side and 
> keep tension on the chain and the links on the sprocket at all times.
> 
> You can then walk the chain in by turning the engine a bit, adding a new wire 
> tie on each side, and cutting the old one.  Vise grips work too, but make 
> sure you don't hang them up on the cam towers, etc.
> 
> If you have a helper , you can hold the chain in place manually -- with the 
> fancy tool, the chain is held by the tool and all you have to do is feed it 
> in and "help" the old chain out of the way.
> 
> Once you get the new chain all the way in, take off the old one and install 
> the new link in the ends of the new chain, which must be sitting on the 
> sprocket next to each other.  Don't forget the center link.
> 
> Swage the chain with the fancy tool, or just back up the link with a steel 
> block and use a hammer to peen over the ends of the new link.
> 
> Check cam timing!  You can't screw up the crank to injection timer unless you 
> take out the retainer bolt down by the injection pump, but you can jump the 
> cam a tooth fairly easily.
> 
> When I pulled a new chain into the 220D, I dropped the old chain twice and 
> had to make a tool to fish it out from brazing rod, which is why I recommend 
> a wire "handle" -- harder to lose control of it and much easier to pull back 
> up.
> 
> I did my alone, it's easier with two people, but my brother and I still 
> managed to jump the chain on the cam one tooth on his SDL.
> 
> Peter
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement advice

[Peter Frederick]

You should inspect the rails now - - if there are grooves worn in  
them, they need to be replaced.  Put them in when you do the new chain.


A chain breaking/swaging tool is nice, but not absolutely necessary.

If you can fish one up, there is a bracket to bolts over the cam  
sprocket that holds the chain on both sides and is open on the top,  
this makes putting a new one in very easy.


If you don't have the tool, what you want to do is remove the chain  
tensioner and upper chain guide on the injection pump side.  Wire tie  
the chain to both sides of the cam, then grind off the rivet head on  
one link at the top.


Drive the link out the back, watch you don't drop the center piece  
into the crankcase.


Use the new link you bought (usually NOT in the box with the new  
chain) to attach the new chain to the old one on the side that will  
pull into the chain cover when you rotate the engine in the normal  
direction.  I think that's the driver's side, but make sure, I get  
things backwards (dyslexia is great, you get to make all sorts of  
unexpected trips when you turn the wrong way).


Hook some wire (clothes hanger, mechanics wire, etc) to the other side  
and keep tension on the chain and the links on the sprocket at all  
times.


You can then walk the chain in by turning the engine a bit, adding a  
new wire tie on each side, and cutting the old one.  Vise grips work  
too, but make sure you don't hang them up on the cam towers, etc.


If you have a helper , you can hold the chain in place manually --  
with the fancy tool, the chain is held by the tool and all you have to  
do is feed it in and "help" the old chain out of the way.


Once you get the new chain all the way in, take off the old one and  
install the new link in the ends of the new chain, which must be  
sitting on the sprocket next to each other.  Don't forget the center  
link.


Swage the chain with the fancy tool, or just back up the link with a  
steel block and use a hammer to peen over the ends of the new link.


Check cam timing!  You can't screw up the crank to injection timer  
unless you take out the retainer bolt down by the injection pump, but  
you can jump the cam a tooth fairly easily.


When I pulled a new chain into the 220D, I dropped the old chain twice  
and had to make a tool to fish it out from brazing rod, which is why I  
recommend a wire "handle" -- harder to lose control of it and much  
easier to pull back up.


I did my alone, it's easier with two people, but my brother and I  
still managed to jump the chain on the cam one tooth on his SDL.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement

[Jim Cathey]

> You could use a punch and a backer just as
> easily, but the tool doesn't put any force on the cam sprocket.

Neither does the hammer, if the pin is backed properly
and you don't miss!

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement

[Peter Frederick]

Why do to operations when you can do them both at once?  You have to  
have two pins free to take a link out anyway, why not crimp both at  
the same time?

By hand, just make sure the link plate stays put.

Peter


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Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement

[Archer]

Two pins?  Does both pins at once?  Seems like doing one at time would be 
okay.
Gerry
- 
From: "Peter Frederick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> The crimping tool has two points that drive into the ends of the
> pins, expanding them.  You could use a punch and a backer just as
> easily, but the tool doesn't put any force on the cam sprocket.
> Peter


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Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement

[Peter Frederick]

The crimping tool has two points that drive into the ends of the  
pins, expanding them.  You could use a punch and a backer just as  
easily, but the tool doesn't put any force on the cam sprocket.

Peter


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Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement

[Archer]

That's good to know.  Tthought it would have be rounded over like most 
rivets.  How does the tool work?  Do you have to tap it after tightening it 
down on the rivet or does screwing it down expand the rivet?
Gerry

From: "Peter Frederick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> All you really need to do is expand the end of the pins so that the
> flat part of the link cannot slip off.  There is very little side
> force on the chain, just flaring the end is quite good enough.
> Rather tough steel, of course, to minimize wear, but the actual
> expansion needed is minimal.
>
> i have access to a crimping tool, so I've never peened one, but would
> in a pinch.
> Peter 


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Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement

[Archer]

I've had that happen too.
Gerry
-- 
From: "Hendrik & Fay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> The secret to peening is to take your time and not try and bash the crap
> out of it.
> It is pretty important to not get the joining link too tight, as this
> will increase wear.
>
> Hendrik
>
> Archer wrote:
>> Done it many times and never had one come loose, but they usually look 
>> like
>> squashed bugs.
>> Gerry 


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Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement

[Peter Frederick]

All you really need to do is expand the end of the pins so that the  
flat part of the link cannot slip off.  There is very little side  
force on the chain, just flaring the end is quite good enough.   
Rather tough steel, of course, to minimize wear, but the actual  
expansion needed is minimal.

i have access to a crimping tool, so I've never peened one, but would  
in a pinch.

Peter


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Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement

[Hendrik & Fay]

The secret to peening is to take your time and not try and bash the crap 
out of it.
It is pretty important to not get the joining link too tight, as this 
will increase wear.

Hendrik

Archer wrote:
> Done it many times and never had one come loose, but they usually look like 
> squashed bugs.
> Gerry
>   
>   

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Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement

[Archer]

Done it many times and never had one come loose, but they usually look like 
squashed bugs.
Gerry

From: "OK Don" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> now that's a problem!
>
>>  Not really good enough with a ball peen hammer and don't
>> have anyone to buck it for me.
>> Gerry
>
> -- 
> OK Don, KD5NRO
> Norman, OK
> "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics."
> -Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain
> '90 300D (Rattled), '92 300D (Saber), ' '81 240D (Gramps), '97 Ply
> Grand Voyager (Vincent van-go)
>
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Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1512 - Release Date: 6/21/2008 
9:27 AM


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Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement

[Bill R]

The only time I had an MB dealer rebuild an engine [dealer in Jacksonville
FL, on my 1962 220Sb, in about 1966] the rebuild lasted all of 30 minutes
before the oil pressure dropped to 1.  I took it back and could hear the
mechanics cussing about the guy who had rebuilt it and the poor job he
always did, and how they were tired of cleaning up his messes.  That pretty
much shot any feeling I had of how great dealer work might be.
BillR  

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of LarryT
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 6:40 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement

I did something similar - I had the engine completely disassembled at the 
time for a rebuild & put the new chain in the vise where I use hammer & 
punch to peen it over.  he I snaked the circular chain into position and 
continued with the assembly.

This was after I had my wife stop by a MB dealer and ask a technician to use

the special tool to peen it.  He said, no your husband needs to put the 
connecting link on while it's on the engine and then peen the connector. 
Moron.  My wife conveyed my message precisely - if I'd wanted to do it like 
that I would have.  It's irritating when something so simple gets twisted 
because he didn't think I knew what I was talking about.  I've probably 
rebuild a *lot* more MB engines than he has!.

Sheesh - sorry - What should have been so simple. ;-\

Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D)
www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
800-583-8601
Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs



- Original Message - 
From: "OK Don" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement


>I did hand peen two chains. A good-n-heavy backing piece of steel/iron
> helps a LOT. I used the clip on the last chain I did, and it held for
> over 100k miles before the car was totaled.
> I used a short piece of railroad track to back the link during the
> hand peening. I would not hesitate to use the clip - if you follow
> directions.
>
> On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 6:27 AM, Jim Cathey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>  Don't think I want to hand peen something that critical,
>>
>> I always figured I'd hand-peen it when it came my
>> turn to do one.  (Haven't, yet.)  But then I really
>> like using hammers for some reason...
>>
>> -- Jim
>
> -- 
> OK Don, KD5NRO
> Norman, OK
> "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics."
> -Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain
> '90 300D (Rattled), '92 300D (Saber), ' '81 240D (Gramps), '97 Ply
> Grand Voyager (Vincent van-go)
>
> ___
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> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement

[OK Don]

now that's a problem!

>  Not really good enough with a ball peen hammer and don't
> have anyone to buck it for me.
> Gerry

-- 
OK Don, KD5NRO
Norman, OK
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics."
-Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain
'90 300D (Rattled), '92 300D (Saber), ' '81 240D (Gramps), '97 Ply
Grand Voyager (Vincent van-go)

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Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement

[Archer]

I have all sizes of buck bars and several peen bars, but don't have any peen 
bars that small.  Not really good enough with a ball peen hammer and don't 
have anyone to buck it for me.
Gerry
--
From: "OK Don" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>I did hand peen two chains. A good-n-heavy backing piece of steel/iron
> helps a LOT. I used the clip on the last chain I did, and it held for
> over 100k miles before the car was totaled.
> I used a short piece of railroad track to back the link during the
> hand peening. I would not hesitate to use the clip - if you follow
> directions.
>
> On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 6:27 AM, Jim Cathey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>  Don't think I want to hand peen something that critical,
>>
>> I always figured I'd hand-peen it when it came my
>> turn to do one.  (Haven't, yet.)  But then I really
>> like using hammers for some reason...
>>
>> -- Jim
>
> -- 
> OK Don, KD5NRO
> Norman, OK
> "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics."
> -Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain
> '90 300D (Rattled), '92 300D (Saber), ' '81 240D (Gramps), '97 Ply
> Grand Voyager (Vincent van-go)
>
> ___
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> For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1512 - Release Date: 6/21/2008 
9:27 AM


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Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement

[LarryT]

I did something similar - I had the engine completely disassembled at the 
time for a rebuild & put the new chain in the vise where I use hammer & 
punch to peen it over.  he I snaked the circular chain into position and 
continued with the assembly.

This was after I had my wife stop by a MB dealer and ask a technician to use 
the special tool to peen it.  He said, no your husband needs to put the 
connecting link on while it's on the engine and then peen the connector. 
Moron.  My wife conveyed my message precisely - if I'd wanted to do it like 
that I would have.  It's irritating when something so simple gets twisted 
because he didn't think I knew what I was talking about.  I've probably 
rebuild a *lot* more MB engines than he has!.

Sheesh - sorry - What should have been so simple. ;-\

Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D)
www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
800-583-8601
Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs



- Original Message - 
From: "OK Don" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement


>I did hand peen two chains. A good-n-heavy backing piece of steel/iron
> helps a LOT. I used the clip on the last chain I did, and it held for
> over 100k miles before the car was totaled.
> I used a short piece of railroad track to back the link during the
> hand peening. I would not hesitate to use the clip - if you follow
> directions.
>
> On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 6:27 AM, Jim Cathey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>  Don't think I want to hand peen something that critical,
>>
>> I always figured I'd hand-peen it when it came my
>> turn to do one.  (Haven't, yet.)  But then I really
>> like using hammers for some reason...
>>
>> -- Jim
>
> -- 
> OK Don, KD5NRO
> Norman, OK
> "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics."
> -Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain
> '90 300D (Rattled), '92 300D (Saber), ' '81 240D (Gramps), '97 Ply
> Grand Voyager (Vincent van-go)
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com 


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Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement

[Archer]

>>  Don't think I want to hand peen something that critical,
> 
> I always figured I'd hand-peen it when it came my
> turn to do one.  (Haven't, yet.)  But then I really
> like using hammers for some reason...
> -- Jim

You young guys can probably do it okay with a hammer.
Gerry

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Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement

[Archer]

> Archer wrote:
>> Thanks, Clay.  Don't think I want to hand peen something that critical, 
>> so
>> I'll probably rent a crimping tool from Performance Parts in California 
>> or
>> elsewhere.
>
> Spud (Idaho Dave) or Joe Knight might have one, but I don't think either
> of them are still on this list.
> Mitch.
>
Thanks, Mitch.  Joe once loaned me his gauge for adjusting the AT in my 
300D, and I
still have his address and tel number some place.  I'll try to contact him. 
He still lives in Tampa AFAIK.
Gerry 


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Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement

[OK Don]

I did hand peen two chains. A good-n-heavy backing piece of steel/iron
helps a LOT. I used the clip on the last chain I did, and it held for
over 100k miles before the car was totaled.
I used a short piece of railroad track to back the link during the
hand peening. I would not hesitate to use the clip - if you follow
directions.

On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 6:27 AM, Jim Cathey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>  Don't think I want to hand peen something that critical,
>
> I always figured I'd hand-peen it when it came my
> turn to do one.  (Haven't, yet.)  But then I really
> like using hammers for some reason...
>
> -- Jim

-- 
OK Don, KD5NRO
Norman, OK
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics."
-Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain
'90 300D (Rattled), '92 300D (Saber), ' '81 240D (Gramps), '97 Ply
Grand Voyager (Vincent van-go)

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Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement

[Jim Cathey]

>  Don't think I want to hand peen something that critical,

I always figured I'd hand-peen it when it came my
turn to do one.  (Haven't, yet.)  But then I really
like using hammers for some reason...

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement

[Mitch Haley]

Archer wrote:
> Thanks, Clay.  Don't think I want to hand peen something that critical, so 
> I'll probably rent a crimping tool from Performance Parts in California or 
> elsewhere.

Spud (Idaho Dave) or Joe Knight might have one, but I don't think either
of them are still on this list.
Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement

[Archer]

Thanks, Clay.  Don't think I want to hand peen something that critical, so 
I'll probably rent a crimping tool from Performance Parts in California or 
elsewhere.
Gerry
-
From: "Redghost" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Old chain is peened on, new chain uses either a peened link or the
> clip depending on if you get one in the box, or the extra one you
> order from Rusty.
> clay
>
>> I just ordered a chain for my '83 300D Turbo from Rusty.  I
>> understood him
>> to say that the original chain was fastened together with a clip
>> like a
>> bicycle chain uses, but I seem to remember someone writing about
>> grinding
>> off a rivet in order to remove the chain.  All help appreciated.
>> Thanks,
>> Gerry
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
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>>
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>> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
> ___
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>






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Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement

[Archer]

From: "Peter Frederick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> The factory chain will have been crimped and installed with the
> crankshaft.  Replacements, are, of course, open.  Buy the link and
> beg, borrow, or steal a crimping tool, I don't recommend a master
> link, even if it's wired.  They come apart, especially if you get
> them on backwards.
>
> To remove the old chain, you will need to grind the peened over end
> off two of the pins and push the link out (after, of course, wiring
> the chain to the camshaft sproket!).  You then attach the new chain
> to the old one, and while keeping BOTH ends on the cam, slowly rotate
> the engine to feed the new chain in and pull the old one out.  There
> is a tool that holds the chain in place on both sides, but I don't
> have one.
>
> When the new chain is in place, remove the link, take the old chain
> off the end of the new one, install the link, and crimp.
> Peter
> ___
Thanks, Peter.  Rusty doesn't have a crimping tool to rent, so I'll probably 
have to rent one from Performance Parts.  They want about $200.00 to buy the 
tool.
Gerry 


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Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement

[Redghost]

Old chain is peened on, new chain uses either a peened link or the  
clip depending on if you get one in the box, or the extra one you  
order from Rusty.

clay


On 20 Jun 2008, at 16:05, Archer wrote:

> I just ordered a chain for my '83 300D Turbo from Rusty.  I  
> understood him
> to say that the original chain was fastened together with a clip  
> like a
> bicycle chain uses, but I seem to remember someone writing about  
> grinding
> off a rivet in order to remove the chain.  All help appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Gerry
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


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Re: [MBZ] Timing chain replacement

[Peter Frederick]

The factory chain will have been crimped and installed with the  
crankshaft.  Replacements, are, of course, open.  Buy the link and  
beg, borrow, or steal a crimping tool, I don't recommend a master  
link, even if it's wired.  They come apart, especially if you get  
them on backwards.

To remove the old chain, you will need to grind the peened over end  
off two of the pins and push the link out (after, of course, wiring  
the chain to the camshaft sproket!).  You then attach the new chain  
to the old one, and while keeping BOTH ends on the cam, slowly rotate  
the engine to feed the new chain in and pull the old one out.  There  
is a tool that holds the chain in place on both sides, but I don't  
have one.

When the new chain is in place, remove the link, take the old chain  
off the end of the new one, install the link, and crimp.

Peter


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