Mersenne: Space Avaliable...
A while back someone (I don't recall who it was) mailed me digest files to post since they were out of space themselves. I still have space available. If someone wants to digestify the last few X zillion posts I'lll be more than happy to post 'em behind my T-1... -Chuck -- ~ : Port 25: ten.knilrevlis@ekopPort 80: http://www.silverlink.net/poke : ~ :It will be noisy, it will be scary and it will not be mistaken for a VFW parade! : ~ _ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers
Re: Mersenne: Zip Codes
Is there anything geographically special about your old town? On Fri, 17 Dec 1999, Vincent J. Mooney Jr. wrote: > Also since the list is quite quiet, my old zip code of 21701 is a Mersenne > prime. > > Are there any other zip codes that are Mersenne primes? > > I don't know how to look up 02203 or 02281 for example. > > _ > Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm > Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers > -- ~~~ : WWW: http://www.silverlink.net/poke : : E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : ~ :It will be noisy, it will be scary and it will not be mistaken for a VFW parade! : ~ _ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers
Re: Mersenne: mprime startup at boot-time
Sorry, -d, not -m. I'm not that familiar with the command line arguments of mprime. My expertise lies in the symantics of Linux. One way to pipe to a virtual terminal AND to a file is by using a combination of a tee and a redirect. Something like: /usr/src/mprime -d | tee -a /home/GIMPS/tracking.txt > /dev/tty6 -Chuck > First, wouldn't you want to use mprime -d ? The -m flag simply brings up > the menu. > > Secondly, I used to feed the output to a virtual terminal, but decided that > having a hard copy that I could periodically check was better. I've been > piping all the output to a file, such as mprime -d > >>/home/GIMPS/tracking.txt. When it finishes reporting a result, I delete > everything but the result and let mprime continue on to the next LL test > using the same file. > > Just my $.02, > Kel > _ > Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm > Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers > -- ~~~ : WWW: http://www.silverlink.net/poke : : E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : ~~ : Ask Mike! Aviation's response to Dear : : Abby. http://www.avstarair.com: ~~~ _ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers
Re: Mersenne: mprime startup at boot-time
So you want the output of mprime to display on a virtual terminal? Unless you are displaying to a virtual terminal your data won't go anywhere, or worse someone who connects will see this extraneous data hit their screen every once in a while. You should be able to display to a virtual termina with a simple redirect: mprime -m > /dev/tty1 -Chuck On Thu, 21 Oct 1999, Lars Lindley wrote: > Hi everyone. > I have request for help. > I run mprime on Linux. > What I want to do is to have mprime automatically start when I boot > and send the -m output to a tty or something like that. Perhaps tty8? > Is this possible?? > > Happy hunting, all! > /Lars > _ > Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm > Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers > -- ~~~ : WWW: http://www.silverlink.net/poke : : E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : ~~ : Ask Mike! Aviation's response to Dear : : Abby. http://www.avstarair.com: ~~~ _ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers
Re: Mersenne: difference between LL and double check
The exponent you are using to LL test is probably significantly larger than the exponent your are using to double test. It's doing the same operation on both but on the LL test it is using a larger FFT (AFIK). Larger FFT requires more memory. More memory requires more time to juggle all of that data. -Chuck On Thu, 21 Oct 1999, Grieken, Paul van wrote: > Why is there a difference in iteration time between the LL test and a > double test. > The double test took about 0.115sec and a LL test 0.254sec for the same > amount of iterations. > bye, > > Paul van Grieken > Alcatel telecom Nederland > Afd: TTAC Netwerk Elementen > Tel: 070-3079353 > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > marklin collector > > _ > Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm > Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers > -- ~~~ : WWW: http://www.silverlink.net/poke : : E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : ~~ : Ask Mike! Aviation's response to Dear : : Abby. http://www.avstarair.com: ~~~ _ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers
Re: Mersenne: FDIV Pentium error
I just wanted to apologize for my arrogant response to the FDIV Pentium error post. I lost several hours of work that day when our company's installation of SMS rebooted my machine with only five seconds notice, in order to install a patch and used the message to vent. Please accept my apologies... -Chuck -- ~~~ : WWW: http://www.silverlink.net/poke : : E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : ~~ : Ask Mike! Aviation's response to Dear : : Abby. http://www.avstarair.com: ~~~ _ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers
Re: Mersenne: FDIV Pentium error
All programs are affected by the FDIV bug. It is a bug in the design of the microprocessor. Linus has a way around it. The brain dead morons at Microsoft have to make everyone else wait for a solution (That has yet to come AFIK). Linux on the other hand usually has problems solved in a matter of hours. -Chuck On Tue, 21 Sep 1999, Floris Looyesteyn wrote: > I was wondering if Prime95 is affected by the Pentium > FDIV bug. (or some name like that). > I ask this because now i'm also using it on my laptop > (great work george!) and when i installed linux some time > ago it said the processor had this bug. > > Floris Looyesteyn > > > _ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > _ > Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm > Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers > -- ~~~ : WWW: http://www.silverlink.net/poke : : E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : ~~ : Ask Mike! Aviation's response to Dear : : Abby. http://www.avstarair.com: ~~~ _ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers
Re: Mersenne: Re: primes source
> I would NOT encourage using the gpl for this, it's far too restrictive, > and the fact that the security stuff isn't included in the public code > would actually be in direct violation of it. I am curious, what about the GPL do you find restrictive? -Chuck -- ~~~ : WWW: http://www.silverlink.net/poke : : E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : ~~ : Ask Mike! Aviation's response to Dear : : Abby. http://www.avstarair.com: ~~~ _ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers
Re: Mersenne: complaint
Just as a side note, these comments are precious because they come from the viewpoint of someone who is very new to GIMPS. New people are just the ones we are trying to attract and I can't help but wonder how many participants we lost becuase they did not have the tenacity of Tom. Just my 2c worth... -Chuck On Mon, 13 Sep 1999, Tom Goulet wrote: > Greetings all, > > Firstly I think the GIMPS is a great thing and stuff, but I wish to offer > constructive feedback. If I'm venting in the wrong place, just let me know. > If you must flame me, do it off-list. :) > > I'm one of many who got fed up with distributed.net and cracking rc5des. > > So I hunted for another project to devote my spare CPU power, and I thought > the gimps was cool. > > I had trouble finding the gimps, and the gimps client, and instructions on > how to join. I found www.mersenne.org and entropia.com. I still don't > understand the relationship between the two, and I would like to. > > I read some documentation about the gimps and I didn't understand most of > the questions. But that's ok, I'm not overly interested in the actual > mathematics involved. > > The GIMPS clients does a lot of self-testing...is that really needed? > > Also, I can get the client to segfault at least two different ways. > > The 'packet' sizes are very large...I have lost weeks of work due to > power failures and friends. > > I also accidentally ran two or three instances of the client, and it complained > about it's work file or something, and delete it. 89% complete doing whatever > it was doing, and it restarted at 0. > > So anyways, my comments can be summed up in that it isn't easy for the newbie > (even the very nerdy types like myself) to find their way around the gimps > project and become efficient contributers. > > Now, distributed.net (yes, I hear some moans) has a very slick interface, and > helpful documentation and navigable websites and easy to understand overall > structure. (I will be writing another letter to dnet sometime soon... > complaining that they have all these neat things and are wasting them.) > > Hopefully this explains to some of you why the gimps is not growing very fast. > > Please forgive me if I was rude, responses are welcome. :) > > TomG > > -- ~~~ : WWW: http://www.silverlink.net/poke : : E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : ~~ : Ask Mike! Aviation's response to Dear : : Abby. http://www.avstarair.com: ~~~ PGP signature
Mersenne: New Intel FFT Library
Tried mailing this from my work account but I am not subscribed: > > TITLE: Discussion of an API for a High Performance FFT package > > > > SPEAKER: Peter Tang, Intel Corporation > > > > > > DATE: Thursday, August 12 > > > > TIME: 9:00 am - 10:30 am > > > > LOCATION: Room 47A2, 33-07 bldg. Bellevue > > > > ABSTRACT: > > > > Peter Tang of Intel is currenly developing an API for a high performance FFT library. He will be visiting the Boeing Bellevue Campus all day, this coming Thursday, and will be making an informal, interactive presentation of his work to date. He is interested in obtaining feedback from experienced FFT users on the details of his design. He is also interested in exploring concepts of macro libraries and how these might benefit from hardware innovations, such as a programmable cache. Following the presentation of his slides, he will be available all day for discussions and interactions. I will be assembling a schedule for those who would like to spend some time visiting with him. I asked about if he knew about GIMPS and the response was: The FFT library in question has not yet been written, so far as I know. The topic of this seminar was more about the specification of the external interface for a proposed FFT library being designed at Intel. This is important because of the objective that the new library support the functionality of the major, existing libraries. Peter is quite a capable guy, and the project has the objective of delivering code that is capable of "machine rate" performance. Does anyone have any questions or suggestions that need to be passed on to the coders doing this? Sounds like a beautiful chance to get some free CPU cycles in a testing scenario and/or more publicity of some sort. -- ~~~ : WWW: http://www.silverlink.net/poke : : E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : ~~ : Ask Mike! Aviation's response to Dear : : Abby. http://www.avstarair.com: ~~~ _ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers
Re: Mersenne: The list's archives
I'm hosting a few "bytes" of the lists past e-mails. I offered to do more but that was almost 1.5 years ago. I forget who was doing it, but if you're still out there, I've got plenty more space where that came from. -Chuck On Tue, 10 Aug 1999, Shot wrote: > Hi. > > I would like to know where I can find the list's recent archives. > > I followed the links from GIMPS' page, to > http://www.scruznet.com/~luke/archives/digest/ page. All I found > there were the digests dated 8 July 1996 (file v01_0001.txt) to 7 > June 1998 (file v01_0375.txt) - these were packed into 01_001.zip to > 01_015.zip files. There are also unpacked files v01_0351.txt to > v01_408.txt, which is about (I couldn't check exactly, so I guess) > mid-August '98. > > The problem is I digged through these 1-375 editions (it took me > about five days, skipping some topics uninteresting to a GIMPS newbie > like myself), and I'm now downloading those 376-408 issues (it would > be much easier if they also were packed). But what should I do when I > read them all? Are there any more past digests (packed, preferably)? > I just don't want to post questions that were answered recently, > because I know how annoying this is (from reading those digest, for > example). > > Best wishes > -- Shot > __ > c"? Shot - [EMAIL PROTECTED] hobbies: Star Wars, Pterry, GIMPS, ASCII > `-' [EMAIL PROTECTED] join the GIMPS @ http://www.mersenne.org > On a box of a clockwork toy in Hong Kong: Guaranteed to work > throughout its useful life. > > _ > Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm > Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers > -- ~~~ : WWW: http://www.silverlink.net/poke : : E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : ~~ : Ask Mike! Aviation's response to Dear : : Abby. http://www.avstarair.com: ~~~ _ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers
Re: Mersenne: redhat 6 - segfault
That's interesting you say that. I used to have that problem ALL the time back when I used RH4.X. After I graduated from college I didn't use Linux until RH5.2 came out and it worked great there. I wonder if the old problem is cropping up again. -Chuck On Fri, 6 Aug 1999, Tom Goulet wrote: > Hi all! > > My apologies if this isn't the list for pesky technical problems regarding > the GIMPS client. > > I grabbed the one specified for Red Hat 6.0, the filename (after gunzipping) > is mprime-18.1-redhat6. I try to run it...Segmentation fault (core dumped) > > This happened with the other mprime.tar.gz package as well. Is this a > known issue? Could my redhat installation be missing something that > the client needs? (I have a lot of stuff not-installed.) > > In other news, I installed the client on slackware and it worked fine. :) > (the mprime.tar.gz one) > > Any help? > > TomG > > _ > Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm > Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers > -- ~~~ : WWW: http://www.silverlink.net/poke : : E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : ~~ : Ask Mike! Aviation's response to Dear : : Abby. http://www.avstarair.com: ~~~ _ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers
Re: Mersenne: The $100,000 award for 10,000,000 digit prime
10% for George 10% for Scott 10% for Discoverer 10% Charity/Scholarship (The Mersenne Scholarship Fund) 60% divided evenly to everyone who contributed, based on CPU cycles contributed after the last Mersenne prime found. If someone manages to double the speed, it should be assumed that the CPU cycles that are saved would be credited to that person. -Chuck -- ~~~ : WWW: http://www.silverlink.net/poke : : E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : ~~ : Ask Mike! Aviation's response to Dear : : Abby. http://www.avstarair.com: ~~~ _ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers
Re: Mersenne: The $100,000 award for 10,000,000 digit prime
I hate the charity idea only because it seems to me that a "Mersenne Scholarship Fund" would do much more for our project in many ways: 1. We could control where the money goes to a greater extent. 2. It would allow us to contribute a great deal more mathematics in general. 3. More notariety. -Chuck On Sat, 17 Jul 1999, Eric Hahn wrote: > George Woltman wrote: > >Hi all, > > > > At the risk of opening Pandora's box, I'd like to bring > >up the possibility of splitting up the $100,000 award for a 10 million > >digit prime. I'm soliciting everyone's opinion before making a decision. > > > > 1/4 to George or charity (his choice) > 1/4 to Scott or charity (his choice) > 1/2 to the discover(s) or charity* > > *The discover(s) get to chose only if there is orderly > exploration of exponents. Otherwise, it goes to a > charity of their choice. > > That would be changed to 20%, 20%, 40%, and 20%, with the > last 20% going to the individual(s) responsible for > increasing the search speed significantly, if such event > occurs. > > This promotes an orderly exploration of exponents, yet > allows those who want to find a 10M digit prime just > for fun (and unorderly) to have the opportunity without > being completely penalized. It also encourages the > advancement and development of new algorithms. > > This is all, of course, assuming a GIMPser is the > discover(s)... > > > _ > Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm > Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers > -- ~~~ : WWW: http://www.silverlink.net/poke : : E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : ~~ : Ask Mike! Aviation's response to Dear : : Abby. http://www.avstarair.com: ~~~ _ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers
RE: Mersenne: EFF and 10,000,000 digits
> I'm pretty sure Intel already has test chips running at least that fast, > probably faster. Speeds like that only become mainstream when it's > affordable to mass produce such chips (higher yields) and people are willing > to pay more. I think they'd prefer to milk as much out of us as they can by > slowly introducing improvements, forcing us to upgrade every so many years. > Heck, if they just came out with a super fast ultra chip twice as fast as > what's out there now for about the same price, they wouldn't make as much > money in the long haul. And let me add that slowing the pace of mainstream release, to a certain degree, is actually a good thing. Think of it this way. No one can predict innovation. If Intel doesn't have the resources to support its innovation, then we don't get any more innovation. If Intel slows things down to a consistent pace and gets its money's worth out of it's past innovations (Heck, there's even a market still for 386 processors, they make darn good small office routers), then they can afford to support more research... It's a never ending cycle that's supported by the consumer, who is also its secondary beneficiary (The first being the stock-holders). Don't get me wrong, it's all about money and capitalism, we just see the benefit of it because our desire for more speed drives the capitalists... -- ~~~ : WWW: http://www.silverlink.net/poke : : E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : ~~ : Ask Mike! Aviation's response to Dear : : Abby. http://www.avstarair.com: ~~~ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm
Re: Mersenne: Prime95 on linux, a tech question
I wouldn't recommend the "> /dev/null" command. If you start it remotely, the stdout and stderr usually (but not always) go to e-mail. This way you can still see the output and not lose any critical messages... -Chuck On Thu, 3 Jun 1999, Philip Heede wrote: > On Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:03:25 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > >Now I can start mprime remotely through telnet - which works fine. > >But as soon as I quit the particular telnet-session - mprime quits > >too. > >Anybody can give me a hint how do keep mprime running? > > Sure.. > I run mprime remotely on a server by using a simple > "./mprime > /dev/null &" command. The "> /dev/null" suppresses output and > the "&" makes MPrime run in the background. If you want output in a file > simply replace "/dev/null" with the filename. > > -- > Sincerely, > Philip Heede > > > > Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm > -- ~~~ : WWW: http://www.silverlink.net/poke : : E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : ~~ : Ask Mike! Aviation's response to Dear : : Abby. http://www.avstarair.com: ~~~ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm
Re: Mersenne: Prime95 on linux, a tech question
First of all put the following at the bottom of your /etc/rc.d/rc.local file: /Your/path/to/mprime/mprime & To start it from the command line do this: nohup /Your/path/to/mprime/mprime & -Chuck On Thu, 3 Jun 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I'm trying to run mprime on a (test)webserver (linux/apache) with no > console access. > Now I can start mprime remotely through telnet - which works fine. > But as soon as I quit the particular telnet-session - mprime quits too. > Anybody can give me a hint how do keep mprime running? > > thanks in advance > > > > Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm > -- ~~~ : WWW: http://www.silverlink.net/poke : : E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : ~~ : Ask Mike! Aviation's response to Dear : : Abby. http://www.avstarair.com: ~~~ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm
Re: Mersenne: HTML posts
Hey, I have an idea. Since Luke adds the nice little sig at the bottom of each message, can he "fix" the Content-Type: text/html line if it shows up in an e-mail??? Seems like a simple matter of changing the "html" to "text". If we want to really get crazy a simple perl script could strip out the HTML tags while still retaining the proper formatting as well as notify the offender of his mistake. Of course, we could simply bounce the message back to the offender and make them fix it... -Chuck On Wed, 19 May 1999, Robin Stevens wrote: > On Tue, May 18, 1999 at 03:43:06PM -0700, Mersenne Digest wrote: > > - --2F0C58BF3B6CAD96679EFF20 > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > [snip post in nice ascii text] > > > - --2F0C58BF3B6CAD96679EFF20 > > Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > > > > [snip repeat of the above but in HTML] > > Apologies for the off-topic post, but could I please request that people > posting to this list do so in plain text format and not HTML? There have > been several such posts of late. It's incredibly irritating to those with > less advanced mail programs, or to those who read the digest. > > Please pay a visit to > http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/listowners/html-off.htm > if you don't know how to configure your mail client appropriately. > > -- > Robin Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Merton College, Oxford OX1 4JD, UK http://www-astro.physics.ox.ac.uk/~rejs/ > (+44) (0)1865: 726796 (home) 273337 (work) 273390 (fax)Pager: 0839 629682 > ____ > Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm > -- ~~~ : WWW: http://www.silverlink.net/poke : : E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : ~~ : Ask Mike! Aviation's response to Dear : : Abby. http://www.avstarair.com: ~~~ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm
Re: Mersenne: SETI on ABC News last night
> Would anyone care to comment on the appeal of SETI? Personally speaking, it > doesn't interest me at all. I don't consider its goals to be terribly useful > or important, and I don't think that it has a reasonable chance of > accomplishing anything. But as number theory enthusiast I find something > intrinsically interesting and worthwhile about finding factors and searching > for Mersenne primes. I am probably in a minority of the general population > in this regard. Yes, I have a comment. As was said in the movie Contact, "[if there aren't any intelligent civilations out there] it sure would be a waste of space". If you look at it, the search for Mersenne primes is intrinsically same as the search for extraterrestrial life. No one can say for sure if there really are any more Mersenne primes to be found. We still look for them though, because the statistical likelihood of finding one is pretty compelling. Given the vast amount of space out there and the incredible number of galaxies (most of which we do not know about) I would say the likelihood is equally as strong, if not stronger that something intelligent is out there. It is a highly subjective argument whether it is worthy to find them or not, however you cannot deny the likelihood of them being out there. One could argue that if we cannot even get along with each other, why should we try to integrate another paradigm into our culture. Personally, I am of the belief that everytime you raise the bar, the issues and problems you once had, suddenly look insignificant. Remember how hard multiplication was when you were in 1st grade? Did you REALLY have it mastered by the time you got into long division? I bet you have it mastered now, because you kept on raising the bar. In my travels, I have never mastered anything by focusing on it like a laser. Instead, I mastered it over time by looking at it from many perspectives. Lets just imagine for a moment that we have made contact with a new culture and we are able to transfer knowledge between us. Do you REALLY think that they have developed along the same lines we have? Of course not. They might think some of our problems are trivial, "Oh, 2^N-1??? Yes, that is part of our basic math studies, we solved that problem like this and here are some of our basic corollaries.". Other things might amaze them, "Wow, you managed to tie together hundreds of different language systems, with this UNICODE thing?". In this sense, the legitimacy of the SETI project is based not on what we know we will find, but what we don't know that we might find. One other thing is that the concept of distributed computing (much like the open source movement) is just starting to gain momentum because of real world proof. We can't possibly believe that our project alone could do that. Mersenne primes captured our hearts and minds, however other people don't feel the same. Perhaps BOVINE is more interesting to them, or maybe SETI, Golumb Rulers or PI is more interesting than GIMPS. Look at the big picture, who says any project is more worthy than another. All of the projects I have seen so far have advanced human knowledge more than has ever been possible. I understand the fear that we'll lose momentum. However I'd like to take George Woltman's lead on this one and embrace the other projects. Not because we will lose members to these other projects, but because the other projects will advance the science of distributed computing, which in my humble opinion, will help us much more in the long run. Thanks for your time. And yes, I will continue to contribute my meager CPU cycles to GIMPS. -- ~~~ : WWW: http://www.silverlink.net/poke : : E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : ~~ : Ask Mike! Aviation's response to Dear : : Abby. http://www.avstarair.com: ~~~ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm
Re: Mersenne: Stoopid Bureaucracies!
> > I tried at my company too (A very large Aerospace company based in > > Washington) and my boss said that it didn't add any value to the company > > so she couldn't approve it. I gotta find a way to show it does have > > value... > > > > -Chuck > > If you find one... > 1) £50,000 > 2) Lots of free publicity Those are precisely the reasons that scared the hell out of her. Publicity is one of those things that large companies rarely want, only because it rarely benefits them. I can't help but to agree with her on the publicity thing. What do the stockholders care about mersenne primes. They wanna see more airplanes not more mersenne primes. More airplanes = more money... On the bright side, Boe... 'er I mean the large Washington based aerospace company I work for, is involved in some very interesting pure mathematical research because it does benefit many of the projects they work on. My goal is to find one of those researchers and make them a sponsor of this project. This way it would be seen as an innovation rather than a waste of resources. Disclaimer: If you think anything on this page represents the opinions of anyone but me, you're absolutely crazy. These are my opinions and mine alone. -- ~~~ : WWW: http://www.silverlink.net/poke : : E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : ~~ : Ask Mike! Aviation's response to Dear : : Abby. http://www.avstarair.com: ~~~ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm
Re: Mersenne: Stoopid Bureaucracies!
Hello, generally a lurker but... I have to agree with the comments below especially re the Bellcos - except in my case it's another well known UK telco provider. I gave my project proposal to set up on our machines to my boss weeks ago and it has vanished into a black hole. They didn't even have the courtesy to return the folder I bought! Cost me a quid! I just hope that our IT dept doesn't suddenly 'have a good idea' re the GIMPS project and claim it as their own! Hi Ho... dave = Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 23:02:24 -0400 (EDT) From: lrwiman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Mersenne: Convincing administrators All, I'm going to try to get my school to install Prime95 on their >100 PII's. Does anyone have experience dealing with large stupid beurocracies? Any pointers? Who should I try and talk to first? Thank you in advance, Lucas Wiman Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm -- Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 21:36:12 -0600 From: "Aaron Blosser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: Mersenne: Convincing administrators > All, > I'm going to try to get my school to install Prime95 on > their >100 PII's. Does anyone have experience dealing with > large stupid beurocracies? Any pointers? Who should I try and > talk to first? First rule when dealing with large stupid beauracracies: If it's a bellco, forget about it. -- In gentle decay, d. The Hippy Corporation ttp://www.thc.u-net.com news://alt.binaries.music.rebirth
Re: Mersenne: Goodbye...
I have to disagree here. People will be studying this project many years in the future. This little faux pas is part of the project and adds to the total work required to do it (Did anyone REALLY think a project this BIG would come off error free???). For historical purity reasons, I say leave the work values as they are. At work I am a developer for the worlds biggest computing software upgrade (The Boeing DCAC/MRM program, "Over $2 Billion served"). Compared to this project, DCAC/MRM is a freakin' circus. Keeping good configuration management is the hardest thing to do (Even harder than raising kids???). Guys like George Wotlman and Linus Torvalds should be given medals for their magical ability to keep things under control while keeping things productive. Lets keep things accurate! -Chuck On Sat, 3 Apr 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > A small suggestion. It's only a small point, and would only bother people who are > overwhelmingly worried by rankings, but... > > Could we not credit those users who have had their intermediate files wiped as a > result of updating to v18 for the work carried out up to the last time they > checked in the exponent to PrimeNet? > > e.g. if someone was working on an exponent around 5 million (256K FFT) and they > had checked in to PrimeNet that they were at exponent x with v17, but started the > run again with v18, they should be credited with 0.776*x P90 CPU seconds for the > "lost" work. > > This could be seen as a sort of "good will" gesture to those who have lost work. > After all, if they let the exponent continue to the end & report it before > upgrading, they would get full credit, for a bad result. > > Though, quite honestly, there are more urgent things to do, like knocking the > database back into shape. However, if the server logs contain suitable > information, I'm sure they could be scanned to retrieve the information neccessary > to implement my suggestion. > > Scott, if there's any way you could send me a description of the log file format, > (and perhaps a small extract), I could look at writing a program which you could > use to do the processing, but I won't be able to look at it for a week or two. > > Regards > Brian Beesley > > Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm > -- ~~~ : WWW: http://www.silverlink.net/poke : Boycott Microsoft : : E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://www.vcnet.com/bms: ~~~ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm
Mersenne: Factoring
Do I need to upgrade if I am only factoring? -- ~~~ : WWW: http://www.silverlink.net/poke : Boycott Microsoft : : E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://www.vcnet.com/bms: ~~~ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm
Mersenne: OFF TOPIC: Ettiquette
Please excuse the intrusion... Just a quick note about posting ettiquette. If you use MS Outlook or some other e-mail program, please ensure that you are posting in plain vanilla ASCII and not HTML. Not everyone uses an e-mail client that displays e-mail in HTML. For me, it comes up as an attachment and it has to be opened up in the appropriate viewer. This is fine, however it gets cumbersome when it has to be done more and more often. Not everyone uses Microsoft platforms. Thank you -- ~~~ : WWW: http://www.silverlink.net/poke : Boycott Microsoft : : E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://www.vcnet.com/bms: ~~~ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm
Re: Mersenne:Garbage
As a system administrator, I once called one of those numbers to nicely ask that they pass on to the spammers that we are Washington residents and that we request that they not spam us any more. A nice lady answered the phone saying someting or another answering service. I asked her if I could ask a question and she absolutely flipped! Seems that she was getting tired of being yelled at. Took me 5 minutes to talk her down. I felt like I was talking someone off the edge of the side of a building. Moral: If you call these people, please understand that they are being yelled at for hours on end. Do try to be nice, you'll get much further!! Also, they have to take your e-mail address down and place it on their "don't spam list". Instead of giving them your actual e-mail address, tell them you are an admin for your domain and that you request they no longer e-mail to that domain. They can't confirm any one e-mail address that way and it provides a bit of protection for the rest... blah blah blah take it as you will... On Mon, 15 Mar 1999, Jonathan A Zylstra wrote: > > -this was in the ad, so this might help > > >-- > >To be removed, simply call 1-800-600-0343 ext. 1746 > >and leave your e-mail address. Thank you. > >-- > >>>>>CONTACT INFORMATION<<<<< > > Call us TOLL FREE today 1-877-SWIPE-CC (I.D. 20) > 1-877-794-7322 (I.D. 20) > > J. Zylstra > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > ___ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm > -- ~~~ : WWW: http://www.silverlink.net/poke : Boycott Microsot: : E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://www.vcnet.com/bms: ~~~ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm
Re: Mersenne: Moo?
What about windowing the data? Only utilize a certain portion of it at a time. It would be highly complex, although I don't see why a computer couldn't keep track of it. Is there anyone who can do any theoretical calculations on what this would gain for us? -Chuck On Sun, 7 Mar 1999, Clayton Smith wrote: > >Yes, it would take an enormous amount of RAM to do this, but what if we > >stored the data in some kind of compressed format (a ZILLION to 1 > >compression???), or some kind of reference format? Then we could take > >advantage of everyone's clock cycles used on other searches. There's got > >to be a way of virtually referencing somthing that is not able to exist. > >Look at the way we use a MOD instead of the actual number. > > > >Just some ramblings... > > > If we compressed the data by any constant factor (e.g. a zillion), the > amount of data to be stored would still double with each squaring, so we'd > be not much better off. > > Suppose we had sufficient memory available to do the computation. How long > would it take? Assume we've discovered something better than FFT and can > multiply in O(n) time (as far as I know, this is the best that can be done > since you have to at least look at the whole number). Each S(n) is twice > the length of the previous one, and the squarings would take O(2^n) time. 1 > + 2 + 2^2 + ... 2^(n-1) = 2^n, so the whole computation would take O(2^n) > time. That's a lot of time! And of course, actually dividing M(n) into > S(n-2) would take just about as long. > > - Clayton > > -- ~~~ : WWW: http://www.silverlink.net/poke : Boycott Microsot: : E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://www.vcnet.com/bms: ~~~ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm
Mersenne: Mersenne Processor
If one were to build a microprocessor SPECIFICALLY suited to LL testing, what would the assembly instruction set look like? Approximately what would the architecture look like? Speed shouldn't be an issue because there's never enough anyway and we're trying to work smarter not harder. Thanks, -Chuck -- ~~~ : WWW: http://www.silverlink.net/poke : Boycott Microsot: : E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://www.vcnet.com/bms: ~~~ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm
Re: Mersenne: Moo?
Yes, it would take an enormous amount of RAM to do this, but what if we
stored the data in some kind of compressed format (a ZILLION to 1
compression???), or some kind of reference format? Then we could take
advantage of everyone's clock cycles used on other searches. There's got
to be a way of virtually referencing somthing that is not able to exist.
Look at the way we use a MOD instead of the actual number.
Just some ramblings...
-Chuck
On Sun, 7 Mar 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> < saw my six page printout of the Great Number on the wall of my office,
> asked, and I explained GIMPS and the LL algorithm, how the program
> checks to see if M(n) divides S(n). He is a clever chap and asked why
> prime95 starts from scratch calculating S(n) instead of getting it from
> a previous check: if you calculated S(601) and your needed
> S(631) for your next check, for instance, why would you not take
> the previously calced S(601) then square and subtract 2 thirty times.
>
> I pointed at the Great Number and said: Because S(3021377) has this
> many bits. Knock off a dozen digits, and it would take that many years
> just to send the data from one computer to another.
>
> I felt pretty smart. Then he asked: if S(n) has so many bits, how does a
> desktop computer handle it?
>
> Me: duuuh. I dont know. {8-[
>
> Do you know? Can someone explain it to me in words an ordinary
> person would understand, how the Prime95 LL algorithm works? spike>>
>
> Wouldn't it be nice... (Beach Boys song). Nah. You see, we use a shortcut. At
> every iteration, we only store S(whatever) mod 2^P - 1. It's that mod that
> counts. This lets us run Prime95 on machines with 8MB of RAM. However, it
> makes what you'd like to do utterly impossible. It would ONLY be possible if
> we stored the FULL S(whatever) every cycle, and never took it modulo 2^P - 1.
> However, we'd need machines with (insert fantastically large number, perhaps
> more than the universe can handle) exabytes of RAM to store the full S for an
> exponent around 3 million. And so forth. Aw. :-(
> -*---*---
> S.T.L.
>
> Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm
>
--
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Re: Mersenne: Errors in previous results
We should be worried because the statistical chance of error is never 0%. No matter what the odds are, EVENTUALLY it will tip out of our favor. -Chuck On Sat, 6 Mar 1999, Gordon Spence wrote: > There has been speculation on the list recently about the chances of > finding previous errors and the implications for various things. > > I have recently retested M2018167 and found a factor that was previously > missed. So what?, that surely is the whole point of double checking. This > number will now be tested a third time to dtermine which of these two > results is correct. > > As long as we do the rigorous double and triple checking then why should we > be worried? > > regards > > G > Gordon Spence, Nokia IP Telephony > Applications Engineer Grove House, Waltham Way, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] White Waltham, Maidenhead, > http://www.nokiaiptel.com/ Berkshire, SL6 3TN, UK. > > > Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm > -- ~~~ : WWW: http://www.silverlink.net/poke : Boycott Microsot: : E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://www.vcnet.com/bms: ~~~ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm
Re: Mersenne: if a discovery?
MY GOD, IT'S FULL OF STARS. MY GOD, IT'S FULL OF STARS. MY GOD, IT'S FULL OF STARS. MY GOD, IT'S FULL OF STARS. MY GOD, IT'S FULL OF STARS. MY GOD, IT'S FULL OF STARS. MY GOD, IT'S FULL OF STARS. MY GOD, IT'S FULL OF STARS. MY GOD, IT'S FULL OF STARS. MY GOD, IT'S FULL OF STARS. MY GOD, IT'S FULL OF STARS. On Tue, 2 Mar 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > This question goes out to those of you who have written your names in the > pages mathematical history as explorers of new primes. What did your > computers say or do when you discovered that new big prime number? Ring a > bell? Play "God save the Queen"? Draw a picture of Mersenne with his hand > out-streatched to shake your hand? or did it just show you a picture of > the gimp himself (in full 'uniform') with something out-stretched for you > to shake?? :) > > ___ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm > -- ~~~ : WWW: http://www.silverlink.net/poke : Boycott Microsot: : E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://www.vcnet.com/bms: ~~~ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm
Re: Mersenne: so many primes, so little time...
On Tue, 23 Feb 1999, Musashi wrote: > > > > Mersenne primers, please indulge me with this fanciful history of the > > future: > > > > Moore's law holds, additional Mersenne primes are found, computers > > get faster and smaller until they are made of nearly pure lithium. > > The two s-orbital electrons are used for data and the p-orbital > > electron is used for structural stability. In this way, each lithium > > atom > So what's the answer :-) Aw ok, I'll calculate it myself :-) -- ~~~ : WWW: http://www.silverlink.net/poke : Boycott Microsot: : E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://www.vcnet.com/bms: ~~~ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm
Re: Mersenne: Problems with ATI graphics
On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, John R Pierce wrote: > > > 3) The on-board ATI graphics chip is about 2 cm away from the Slot1, > > > directly underneath the CPU's big heat sink. > > > > Hmmm, sounds pretty suspicious to me. I would move it down a slot or > > two... > > > "ON-BOARD" ATI graphics. its a all-in-one motherboard. can't move it. E, that sounds like a poor design. I would notify the manufacturer and solicit advice on creating some shielding. > re: emf radiation, I heavily doubt that a CPU could radiate any significant > EMF thru a heatsink, which after all is a large mass of aluminum, presumably > grounded. > > I'd be more likely to suspect power transients coming through the +5VDC. 'tis possible, however there is a way to determine if and what is emanating EMF. Take a length of fine wire preferably with shellac insulation and coil it up about 1 inch in diameter(Probably 10-15 loops should do) and connect the two ends to the probes on an oscilliscope (a multimeter should do in a pinch). Replicate the problem on your monitor and wave the coil over various components on your motherboard. You should be able to "see" what is pumping out excessive EMF. Be careful you don't touch the board with your coil :-) > > > > 4) The distributed.net client does not cause this behavior. My > > > understanding is that it does not use either FPU or cache. > > > > Huh? If you are LL testing you are using FPU and cache. I'm almost as sure > > that applies if you are factoring as well. > > he meant the distributed.net client does not use FPU or cache. In fact, it > does use some cache, but not nearly as heavily as the LL tests do. The > distributed.net client is that RC-5 encryption thing, its all integer math. > > -jrp > > > -- ~~~ : WWW: http://www.silverlink.net/poke : Boycott Microsot: : E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://www.vcnet.com/bms: ~~~
Re: Mersenne: Problems with ATI graphics
> 2) I don't think heat is the problem. The problems start within 5-10 > seconds of starting prime and stop as soon as prime is halted. I never said anything about heat. I said electromagnetic radiation. It emenates (sp?) from anything that is electrical. The more electricity, themore emenations. It works the same way as a radio transmitter, and unfortunately your graphics card appears to be the receiver so to speak... > 3) The on-board ATI graphics chip is about 2 cm away from the Slot1, > directly underneath the CPU's big heat sink. Hmmm, sounds pretty suspicious to me. I would move it down a slot or two... > 4) The distributed.net client does not cause this behavior. My > understanding is that it does not use either FPU or cache. Huh? If you are LL testing you are using FPU and cache. I'm almost as sure that applies if you are factoring as well. -- ~~~ : WWW: http://www.silverlink.net/poke : Boycott Microsot: : E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://www.vcnet.com/bms: ~~~
Re: Mersenne: Problems with ATI graphics
I think we talked about this a while ago, but it manifested itself in noisy RAM (or was it cache chips???). The conclusion was that it was the extensive heat/EMF given off by a very active processor. Perhaps ATI video cards are more susceptible to interference. Try moving your video card a slot or two away from the CPU. On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Paul Victor Novarese wrote: > > Has anyone experienced probelems with ATI graphics cards? > > I've been running prime95 on some evaluation machines here and the display > gets fuzzy when prime is running. > > -- > PGP Fingerprint > 413D 8BEE 88B3 087B 630D 30A4 951A A435 3D01 AFF4 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- ~~~ : WWW: http://www.silverlink.net/poke : Boycott Microsot: : E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://www.vcnet.com/bms: ~~~
Re: Mersenne: mprime for QA or performance?
> Some things are known to happen; and I have observed them myself. First, > the amount of voltage required to work at a given speed decreases. > Secondly, the odds of the chip working at a higher speed increases. To me at least, the first part is obvious. As temperature goes up, so does resistance. The higher resistance requires a greater potential difference to send an adequeate(sp?) amount of current throught the processor. Without cooling, I would imagine the chip would eventually melt down. With cooling, I would imagine the voltage peaks out in some sort of gaussian curve. Which beings to mind, would the potential difference delta be a good measure of the quality of your cooling? (For the non electrical people, I am using voltage and "potential difference" interchangeably, they are the same thing but potential difference says it better IMHO) Which brings to mind a theory about the second part, "speed increase". Too much heat will damage a processor. However I wonder if there is a relationship between some sort of particle drift (electron???) and resistance that "breaks in" or "burns in" a new processor? Much like the performance on a new engine after it has been carefully broken in after the first 1,000 miles... > This much is common knowledge. No one has satisfactorily explained > these results, though many theories abound. Case in point... > There are also rumors that the higher-quality chip cores, which get put > into the C333A/366/400 and Pentium II's are measureably faster. These > rumors have not been confirmed to my knowledge. Tighter packed transistors = less ability to dissipate heat = more resistance... > It would be difficult to classify unexplored territory as "common knowledge". > Perhaps it's common knowledge to some; it's just not mentioned in the > more popular websites or forums. Almost everything that I have learned beyond 1st grade was by assuming that it was common knowledge. "If someone else understands it, I should be capable of understanding it too!"... ~~~ : WWW: http://www.silverlink.net/poke : Boycott Microsot: : E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://www.vcnet.com/bms: ~~~
Re: Mersenne: mprime for QA or performance?
This brings up an interesting question (Well at least to me it is). I notice that you refer to the iteration time "going down" as an expected event. Are you saying that a new CPU is expect to get faster (If ever so slightly) after an initial "Burn in" time??? Perhaps that is a bit of common knowledge I have never heard of. Can someone explain this in greater detail? Thank You, Chuck On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Leu Enterprises Unlimited wrote: > > Greetings! > > Aside from it's normal uses, I've been looking at using mprime as > a QA and benchmarking tool. > > This is particularly important for overclocked Beowulf clusters, > where reliability is a must. And given that the price of these > is now so cheap (with a Gigaflop being achieved for under $10,000), > adaquate Q.A. procedures are a must. Re: my observations on > www.supercomputer.org. > > I've recently noticed something interesting. Namely, with the so-called > effects of "burning-in" a CPU via mprime's torture test, and the > resulting effects on the CPU speed (as determined by the mprime > time test). > > On one CPU, after two days worth of burn-in, the time required to > complete 100 iterations on the stock number went down, as I would expect. > > On a second CPU, the time actually *increased*. From 1 day, 18 hours, > and 55 minutes, to 1d 19h 13m! > > So this leads me to wonder if what I'm seeing is real, or whether > mprime is really sensitive enough to be used here. The O.S. being > used is Linux. > > If mprime is indeed seeing some real effects here, I think people > need to be aware of it. Or even if it's not suitable for this, people > should also know. > > If anyone knowledgeable would care to comment about mprime's suitability > for Q.A. and/or performance measurements, I would appreciate it. > > Thanks! > > -dwight- > ~~~ : WWW: http://www.silverlink.net/poke : Boycott Microsot: : E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://www.vcnet.com/bms: ~~~
Mersenne: Benchmarking
Just saw a MAC G3 333Mhz with my own two eyes running the RC5 software and it was testing roughly 10 times the keyspace in the same amount of time compared to a P333 doing the same thing. I was lobbying heavily for him to change over to GIMPS. He said he had looked at it and was considering the change because of the true mathematical purity. ~~~ : WWW: http://www.silverlink.net/poke : : E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ~~~
