[meteorite-list] Gao, Gao Gao
Hello Bernd, list, Bernd, thanks much for your wise thoughts and advices. Gao is indeed a very popular meteorite, probably because it is as showy as abundant in weight and (different) shapes. I can understand Steve's falling in love for these. I also second your suggestion, namely that Steve should do more to valorize his Gao collection. This brings me to a question that is probably puzzling most of us since a while. You might not ignore that besides our old good friend Gao (H5) (that actually carries the official name Gao-Guenié), there are 2 other Gaos (or Gao-Guéniés): 1) Gao(b) that is a CR (S1), found by Eric Twelker in a parcel full of normal Gaos sent to him from Burkina Faso. The 2 small stones he got weighed 344 g (Bernd, by the way, a slice of that stuff is just outstanding! I bet you also got one See Eric's site: there are 2 pieces left!) 2) The Gao-melt (H imb) described and put for sale by Eric Olson. This stuff is definitely far different from Gao (H5) in that, when cut, this almost black meteorite shows melts and rivers just as Portales or others. Definitely a weird stuff. See pictures on Eric's site. E. Olson is reporting a tkw of 570+ grams. However, I got a few years ago 3 such Gao-melt individuals from a quite different source (directly from Burkina, not from Eric's source) that are exactly the same. They already showed a weird outline when complete (uncut). Once cut, not only they showed the strange metled parts but also huge vugs, some of which reaching 20+ mm !! E. Olson is anouncing on his site since a time that these are under study. Did someone got more recent news ? Note: my source confirmed thet Gao imb and Gao (H5) are (still being) found on the unique strewnfield. To my knowledge, nothing is known about the place where Gao(b) was found... I suggest Steve starts inquiring about these other 2 Gaos and perhaps envisages to extend his collection to Gao, Gao and Gao. By the way, here are the tkw's I have in my archives: Gao-Guénié (H5): [EMAIL PROTECTED] kg Gao-Guénié (H imb): [EMAIL PROTECTED] g (Olson's site) Gao-Guénié (b) (CR)): 2@@344 g (Twelker's site) Could someone (along with the two Erics) provide an update for these figures ? Thanks and have a nice day all, Zelimir A 16:33 15/03/2007 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : Knock, knock ! You seem to be building quite a collection of Gao! Go get 'em! The next step in his obsession -- head for the strewn field. Hello Steve and List, First off: I must also admit that this is becoming a very impressive, an awesome collection of Gao meteorites! Sincere congratulations! The next best step after displaying them for all of us to see, would or could now be to study them, to compare them, to look at their respective fusion crusts, to describe their individual characteristics, to do a little research on their different degrees of weathering (and maybe even shock stage[s]), the thickness or thinness of their fusion crusts, and so much more and then share your observations with the List. This would give them a life. Of course, you might also consider constructing a special Gao info page: dates of fall / find, classification, history, repositories, strewn field parameters, scientific papers / articles, and, and, and, ... The next step in his obsession -- head for the strewn field. .. Well, why not!? Gao instead of London if the risks involved are not too high! He would surely come back with some personal finds or purchases. Such specimens have an even higher, personal value! Best regards, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Updated website, New Colorado stony and more.
Hello Anne, Thanks for the message. You might know that I am building a new compilation list updating the Ensisheim meteorite repositories. Please, when you sell you 4 fragments, could you let me know the name of the new owner, the city (state) where he (she) lives and the weight that he is acquiring. Thanks! Good going with your catalog Best wishes, Zelimir Note: those who still wish to receive my updated compilation, contact me off list. A 22:35 12/03/2007 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : Hello Members! Done! I just added another 40+ pieces, with pictures, to my Catalog. Another brand new Colorado meteorite (that's the 3rd one!): New Raymer. And finally a few Ensisheim pieces, those are really getting hard to get. And several rare meteorites from Argentina: Arbol Solo, Arroyo Aguiar, Mercedes, Huaytiquina. Have a look: _http://www.impactika.com/MetList.htm_ (http://www.impactika.com/MetList.htm) And there is more to come!! If you ever wanted a small slice of Fairfield (IAB Coarse Octahedrite, one mass, 1.6kg, found in 1974 in Butler County, Ohio), do let me know as soon as possible. There will be a few slices available. And I really mean Few. And it is very pretty. Any questions, do let me know. Enjoy. Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] President, I.M.C.A. Inc. www.IMCA.cc BRBRBR**BR AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] vote for meteorite representative 2007: URGENT
Dear List, Here I am receiving a message from Professor Albert Jambon (Paris university, world expert in studying end determining planetary meteorites). Albert has an excellent suggestion: to vote for one of our eminent colleagues, Professor Hasnaa Chennaoui, for the Khmissa Trophy, a renown Moroccan price awarding a woman who had proven particular merits in her domain (Art, Culture, Sport, Social Development...and RD in Science). The 25 selected nominees (see web site below) did conduct a brillant career in their specific domain with significant achievements performed on a sober but efficient basis. You all might well know Hasnaa, as meteorite expert. She is Professor in Geochemistry in Hassan II university of Casablanca, member of the locall Executive Committee Scientific Woman in Morocco. On an international basis, not only member of the Meteoritical Society but also member of the Nom. Com. ! She was the main organizer of the Casablanca Workshop Meteorites from Hot Deserts (August 2006), that was the actual pre-conference of the Zürich-2006 Met. Soc. Meeting. Hasnaa has many scientific publications, international communications and invited lectures related to meteorites. In particular, you might know that she was the one who collected, studied, determined and classified the famous BENGUERIR fall. We had the pleasure to invite her as special guest during the 2005 Ensisheim show, where she presented her scientific results on Benguerir in two original posters (you might be able to still find the corresponding pics on the site of Peter Marmet, and probably others). She was then rewarded by becoming and enthroned member of the Ensisheim meteorite Guardians. Albert and myseld believe it could be particularly important for all of us, meteorite experts, scientists, collectors or simple afficionados to have a competent and reliable representative officially honored in Morocco, an unavoidable and pioneering country in terms of preserving and valorizing the meteorite heritage in Sahara and other world hot deserts. WARNING: Vote deadline: MARCH 9 !!! this is TOMORROW!! So please VOTE RIGHT NOW It will take you 5 SECONDS! How to vote ? Click to: the web site: www.khmissa.org You will see the nominee names on the upper right hand side column. Click on the space (division) next to the name Hasnaa Chennaoui. Then click on VALIDER That's all! 5 seconds We are 600 or so on the list. A SMALL CLICK FOR YOU , AN IMPORTANT CONSEQUENCE FOR HASNAA AND THE METEORITE COMMUNITY ! Thank you so very much on her behalf! Best day, Zelimir Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ensisheim tkw compilation: RESULTS
Dear list, I wish to thank many of you for having provided new or corrected data for my compilation of Ensisheim meteorite masses. Now that the reception of such data had slowed down significantly, I am ready to send you, on request, my provisional compilation list as updated by March 6, 2007. Just feel free to ask for a copy, off list. Note; this list could be found on the Ensisheim web site in a near future). I also made the first evaluations and here are the results with some comments: 1) So far there are 158 different repositories, 73 of them involving official institutes, museums and 85 being in private hands. 2) While the total mass in each repository is accurate (the weights are taken as received), it is difficult to evaluate how many pieces are deposited in each place. When the number of pieces held in a (mostly private) collection is known, this was indicated (if more than one). 3) Except in few cases (Paris, London museums), the precision is within one gram, meaning that the meteorite was probably never weighed with a higher accuracy, even if the mass is small. 4) The presently existing total mass computed so far reaches 69,046.385 grams, which represents 54.37% of the initial mass that is thought to be 127 kg, meaning that more than 45 % are still missing ! (or at least not on the present census). 5) The mass repartition is very inequivalent, thus: - Museums institutes: 67,735.126 g (98.1%) - Private collections: 1,311.259 g (1.9%) (Note that the 53,831 g held at the Regency Palace in Ensisheim represent almost 78% of the big total (Institutes + private)). 6) The largest mass held in a private collection is with Marlin Cilz (416 g, 6th rank), but this (old) number would require confirmation (see below). The smallest mass held in a private collection, 0.05 g, was so far reported by Rhett Bourland (Evansville, IN). The smallest mass held in an official institute (rank 133) is from Black Hills Inst Geol. Res. (SD) and weighs 0.946 g 7) As reported before, my compilation was based on previous repositories or set of data, basically stemming from MetBase (2003), BM catalog (Grady 2000), Ensisheim archives (Schmützer, 1993), more recently completed by data provided by R. Kempton, NEMS (2003), Jörn Koblitz (2007 MetBase edition) and Pierre-Marie Pelé (his own compilation achieved in 2006-2007 that allowed me to precise many old museum/institute old figures). Most of the private repositories come from your own data kindly sent on a regular basis through the list. Some reports came more recently from the subscribers of P.-M. Pelés Encyclopedia of Meteorites, upon specific call. I warmly thank again all of you for this extremely valuable help! 8) My compilation is being increased and improved permanently and your further help is always very much appreciated. Here are some data that Id like to complete and for which I could not contact the owner(s) directly, for various reasons. If anyone can help, this will be more than great. Some specific questions: A) I need the accurate masses held in the following museums, for which I have old data ( 20 years) and/or inaccurate masses (the masses (in grams) I have, are given in parentheses): Berlin (905), Vienna (660), Tübingen (316), US NM (WA) (258), Uppsala (SE) (210), Tempe (AZ) (209), Cambridge (GB) (133), AMS (NY) (111), Göttingen (111), Calcutta (77), Basel (77), Copenhagen (74), Strasbourg (FR) (74), Oxford (GB) (71), Paris Ecole des Mines (38), Freiberg (DE) (28), Harvard (MA) 21), Moscow Geol. Mus (11), Tallin (ES) (11), TCU Fort Worth (only 4.3 g ), St Petersburg (RU) (4) some museum in Holland (???) B) Same question, from the following private collections: Cilz (416), Labenne (88), Haag (85), Horejsi (28.2), Heinlein (26.5), Du Pont coll (8 g still exists ?) C) The repositories are classified by cities (as in MetBase). I need the following data: Is J. Schwade living in Kankakee or in Crystal Lake ? Is Marc Labenne living in Sarasota (FL) or in Tergnion (France) ? Which are the cities and US States where live: - R. C. Cavalieri (USA) ? - J.-M. Daillier (France) ? - P. Pibburns (USA) ? THANKS SO MUCH ONCE MORE ! Best wishes, Zelimir Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] about tkw's
Hi Matteo, For your compilation, I have an end section of Alfianello weighing 19.23 g (25% crusted), got from Martin Altmann in Ensisheim 2005, along with 2 old labels, to my utmost satisfaction (danke Martin!). If anybody else is making some compilation (Jörn Koblitz will be very happy!), I am ready to share my data. Well, this could be an idea... How about that every listee is starting some specific compilation ? At least we would share interesting, exciting and pleasent feelings on meteorites, our main reason to belong to the list Zelimir A 16:40 06/03/2007 +0100, M come Meteorite Meteorites a écrit : The same case in the work I am under build on italian meteorite, of the Alfianello, on 228 kg. tkw, only at 70 kg. its know. For not speack of Vago... Matteo Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ensisheim belonging
Hi Dave, This will occur probably when all the countries will start to pressure all the world collectors, museums...to return all the pieces or art (paintings, sculptures), objects...supposedly belonging to them. But on which grouns, laws, agreements ? You bet this will never occur and perhaps it is far better like that, for the benefit of the whole world heritage and cultures. Actually, would France have the right to claim the restitution ? The place where the meteoirite fell is now located in France. Not in 1492 On a more friendly basis, I am very happy to be able to share my feelings about this fabulous meteorite (amongt many others) with you who live so far away and who know it well because you have some fragments. This is why our international list is so interesting. Imagine if we would have been requested to collect only our local falls/finds ? Well, if you are not convinced and if you really insist, then I am ready to exchange with you all my Canon Diablos against the equivalent weight of Ensisheim... Cheers, Zelimir A 09:04 06/03/2007 -0700, Dave Freeman mjwy a écrit : Dear Zelimir; I enjoyed reading your post. Just a thought, when is France going to pressure all colletors/collections to give their specimens back? Dave F. Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15__ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] a few other auction surprises
Hello Peter, List, Yes, all this needs a serious clearing-up. With you and me (and others ?) there are (at least) 7 examples where the max bid was higher than the hammer price (for Vernon County, there was a typo on the hammer in my post. Read $ 255 instead of $ 266). The Khohar case was resolved by Mike (another typo). For the stolen meteorites and the Achim affair, I am just not competent to intervene. What I wanted to say is that, despite all the above mentioned facts, I would also give the Langs the benefit of doubt. I know them personally for years, never had problems with them in business and I still feel they are fundamentally honest and serious in business. Oh yes, just feel and this does not mean know. My feeling is often right (not always though). In this case, feel means to me I wish it being so. It does not matter if this is a naive behavior. Benefit of doubt means to me that perhaps one should not exclude a huge mixing-up of the lots and prices or anything alike, that resulted in the final confusion we know. Lack of professionalism in running the auction, yes, maybe, but perhaps less likely an intentional cheating. And, indeed, all the hammer prices as reported by Mike should be confirmed from other sources. The theft ramains a serious problem for sure but who knows what is behind? At least I don't want to conclude nor to suppose before more facts are reported. As for me, I appreciate having winning Khohar, regret a little Marilia and Gorlovka (I love - among others - Brasilian and Russian significant meteorites) but I am not frustrated. There will always be meteorites available here and there and their chasing is at least as exciting as their acquisition. I hope all this will not spoil the friendly spirit and funny atmosphere that currently characterize the gathering of all the meteorite afficionados in major shows. Oh, by the way: we don't envisage to program any Auction in Ensisheim Best wishes to all, Zelimir A 23:44 08/02/2007 +0100, Peter Marmet a écrit : Hello Zelimir, the same here! Millbillillie went for 1100.00 USD, our maximum bid: 1300.00 USD!!! Sylacauga went for 1525.00 USD, our maximum bid: 2250.00 USD!! Tenham went for 800.00 USD, our maximum bid: 1200.00 USD!!! I made this bids for a friend of mine. We both are very frustrated! Cheers, Peter Zelimir Gabelica wrote: Hi Mike, list, Mike's reported hammer prices will probably shed more shadow than light on that famous auction. While we are at trying to clear all points, here are some of my own amazements. I have put 11 absentee bids and four of them turned to be above the hammer prices. These are: Itemhammer ($) my bid ($) 19 Gorlovka 160 (Achim) 210 35 Marilia 610 710 52 Quenggouk180 260 60 Vernon Co266 260 1) Shouldn't have I been the winner or ??? (badly missing something!) 2) For other 6 items, my bids were logically lower than hammers. This is OK (at least on my side) 3) But for the last item, here is the other surprise. Iris Lang sent me the same letter as to Peter, about item N° 29, Khohar. Here it is Dear Zelimir Gabelica, You won Lot # 29 Khohar for $495 Allan will be home within a week. Please contact him by e-mail to make arrangment for payment. You can pay by check or credit card. Please add shipping and handling cost. Best regards Iris Lang Now Mike reports that this item was sold to Achim in room for $ 495 (which is exactly my bid). If Mike is corect, something really wrong here. Who is the winner ? I dare hoping that Mike mixed the two winers but his statement seems so strong. Any thoughts? Unless I missed many rules or facts (not excluded), things are far from being clear. Are there other cases ? Best, Zelimir A 09:55 08/02/2007 -0800, Michael Farmer a écrit : Mike and everyone else, I do not want to be in the middle of this. I am running a business at the show. I did Al and Achim a favor (I thought) by reporting stolen pieces. I did not know the firestorm that would follow. I have had at least 50 requests for prices from 50 people, I don't have time to deal with these emails, so by taking the last 30 minutes to posts the hammer prices should release me from any more emails to me. Others in the room can compare prices they wrote down. the rest is between the interested parties and the Langs. Michael Farmer This should end my involvement in the dispute I hope. Perhaps next year, people could just come to my room, and pay the fixed price listed, it would be less painfull! Michael Farmer --- Mike Fowler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike Farmer, This so much really needed to be done. Thanks for stepping up to the plate, even though you may receive vocal criticism from some. I'm sure those
[meteorite-list] list of Ensisheim repositories
Hello list, As answers from private collectors regarding their Ensisehim sample weights in collection slowed down, I have decided to quench the compilation list for now. I am ready to send my compilation list as such, corrected, updated with reports received from many of you and more clearly printed, to anyone of you, on request (off list). I will gradually continue its updating and especially try to inquire for samples held in museums, not at all an easy task. Every help in that direction from those who are living far away France and are in some contact with a local museum in your country, will be very appreciated. The recent deleting from the compilation of the 177 grams of Ensisheim sample supposedly held in Modena university but that turned to be a fake (terrestrial rock) is just an example of what can be done to move towards a more realistic official recording. Thanks Matteo. Have a pleasent day, Zelimir Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] a few other auction surprises
Hi Mike, list, Mike's reported hammer prices will probably shed more shadow than light on that famous auction. While we are at trying to clear all points, here are some of my own amazements. I have put 11 absentee bids and four of them turned to be above the hammer prices. These are: Itemhammer ($) my bid ($) 19 Gorlovka 160 (Achim) 210 35 Marilia 610 710 52 Quenggouk180 260 60 Vernon Co266 260 1) Shouldn't have I been the winner or ??? (badly missing something!) 2) For other 6 items, my bids were logically lower than hammers. This is OK (at least on my side) 3) But for the last item, here is the other surprise. Iris Lang sent me the same letter as to Peter, about item N° 29, Khohar. Here it is Dear Zelimir Gabelica, You won Lot # 29 Khohar for $495 Allan will be home within a week. Please contact him by e-mail to make arrangment for payment. You can pay by check or credit card. Please add shipping and handling cost. Best regards Iris Lang Now Mike reports that this item was sold to Achim in room for $ 495 (which is exactly my bid). If Mike is corect, something really wrong here. Who is the winner ? I dare hoping that Mike mixed the two winers but his statement seems so strong. Any thoughts? Unless I missed many rules or facts (not excluded), things are far from being clear. Are there other cases ? Best, Zelimir A 09:55 08/02/2007 -0800, Michael Farmer a écrit : Mike and everyone else, I do not want to be in the middle of this. I am running a business at the show. I did Al and Achim a favor (I thought) by reporting stolen pieces. I did not know the firestorm that would follow. I have had at least 50 requests for prices from 50 people, I don't have time to deal with these emails, so by taking the last 30 minutes to posts the hammer prices should release me from any more emails to me. Others in the room can compare prices they wrote down. the rest is between the interested parties and the Langs. Michael Farmer This should end my involvement in the dispute I hope. Perhaps next year, people could just come to my room, and pay the fixed price listed, it would be less painfull! Michael Farmer --- Mike Fowler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike Farmer, This so much really needed to be done. Thanks for stepping up to the plate, even though you may receive vocal criticism from some. I'm sure those that are appreciative will out number those who oppose by at least 10 to one, even if they aren't so vocal. Thanks Mike Fowler Mike Farmer wrote: I am going to make this as short as I can, I am still selling in my room in Tucson. I will list lot # Meteorite name and hammer sale price. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Walter Branch
Hello list, I was out of mail contact for a while. All is fine since a couple of hours. I owe to many of you replies. Please be patient, they should reach you gradually from tomorrow on. Upon reading the numerous mails that accumulated, I first believe I owe a prioritary answer to Sabrina about Walter and daughter's accident. --- Dear Sabrina and Walter, This sad news is for sure a real tragedy for Walter, your beloved daughter and your whole family. I am just feeling so bad reading the news, although I only know Walter through reading posts about him and his achievements. Please accept my most sincere sympathy. I feel so fully concerned by your pain. Two complementary messages for all of you are just crossing my mind. Please first just keep strong faith! Never stop struggling. Walter and your daughter must and will recover, that is sure. The second suggestion is that Walter must find mental strength to fight and to very strongly wish to recover soon. Will and faith can help all of you to not only stimulate your minds but also bodies and contribute to a more steady recovery. Now, I'll pray. This quite often helps. I am sure you know. Yours, Zelimir A 06:58 02/02/2007 -0500, Walter Branch a écrit : Hello, I am Walter Branch's wife, Sabrina. On Friday, Walter and our daughter were in an accident. Walter is in critical condition in Trauma ICU. He has numerous internal injuries including 5 broken ribs, a punctured lung, a bruised lung, a ruptured diaphragm (repaired Friday night), his kidneys are not functioning as they should, his spleen was removed, and he had a compound fracture of the right femur. He is under heavy sedation due to agitation, but when they back off the sedation, he is alert and in a great deal of pain. He is on minimum life support at the moment. When I saw him yesterday, I asked him if I should let all of you know and he nodded yes. Please keep us in your prayers. Our daughter is home from the hospital with a concussion, whip lash, and a fractured pelvis. If Walter had an on-going transaction with you, please be patient. As soon as he is able to tell me what to do, I will try to do what I can. Sincerely, Sabrina Branch __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ensisheim meteorite tkw compilation
Dear list, First thanks many of you who sent me the masses of Ensisheim meteorite fragments you owe in your collections, for the compilation we are trying to achieve since a time. Even the smallest masses do contribute to a total that is slowly increasing, although this preliminary compliation is far from being complete. But we will be updating this first list on a regular basis. I wish to thank more particularly Jörn Koblitz for his valuable help in providing the most recent data from his last MetBase version, that remains a fantastic source of information. Please find the list below, hoping it will be more easy to decipher than my preceding compilations. You can note that there is now only one weight per institute or collector, although I had received often more than one (up to 5) often different numbers for each meteorite home. I have selected the most likely weight based on the most recent data I received or had on hand. Variable numbers basically concerned institutes or museums, from which only old data were available from very different sources. These still badly need an update but it is really not easy to contact these people. May I encourage you to continue to send me new data, additions and especially corrections, mostly (I believe) related to your own collections. More specifically, if you have selective remarks or corrections regarding your own data as listed here (not only weights but sometimes addresses), I'll be glad to collect them as promptly as you can, just because we wish to print that list very very soon, as it is, onto the program sheet of the next Ensisehim show that will be distributed to all the attendees next June. If your remarks can be collected within the forthcoming hours (say, within the next two days at the latest), we could include them and modify the compilation list accordingly. Warm thanks to all of you in advance. Best wishes, Zelimir -- Ensisheim meteorite weights, owned by different institutes or held in private collections, as compiled by Zelimir Gabelica (France). Last update: February 7, 2007 Place (country), name (nb. of pieces, if known) MASS (g) (NB: private collections: in italic) Ensisheim (F), Musée Régence 53,831 Paris (F), Mus. d'Hist. Nat10,200 London (UK), Nat. Hist. Mus.911 Berlin (D), Mus.Humboldt Univ. 906 Vienna (A), Naturhist. Mus. 660 Malta (MN, USA), M. Cilz colln. 416 Tübingen (D), Min.-Petrogr. Inst315 Washington (DC, USA), U.S. Nat. Mus.235 Uppsala (S), Univ. Mus. 210 Tempe (AZ, USA), Arizona State Univ. 209 Brussels (B), Inst. Roy. Sci. Mus. 191 Zürich (CH), ETH189 Modena (I), Min. Inst. Univ.177 Tucson (AZ), R. Haag coll. 176 Karlsruhe (D), Univ. Mus. 142.0 Cambridge (UK), Univ.Mus. 133 Chicago (IL, USA), Field Mus. N. Hist. 115 New York (NY, USA), Amer. Mus. N. Hist. 112 Göttingen (D), Min. Inst. Univ. 111 Paris (F), Alain Carion coll.(4)102 Stockholm (S), Naturhist. Riksmus.80 Troyes (F), Mus. d'Hist. Nat. 79.1 Calcutta (In) Mus. Geol. Surv. India 77 Copenhagen (DK), Univ. Geol. Mus. 77 Basel (CH), Naturhist. Mus. 76 Strasbourg (F), Min. Mus 74 Dresden (D), Min. Geol. Mus. 73.4 Oxford (UK), Univ. Mus. 71 Kankakee (IL, USA), J.Schwade coll. 66 Prague (CZ), Nar. Mus.51.5 Rome (I), Vatican Observ. coll. 46.31 Buenos Aires (RA), O.A. Turone coll. 44.01 Bremen (D), J. Koblitz coll. 42.3 Honolulu (HI, USA), J. Murakami coll. 45g Oeschgen (D), Beat Booz coll. 38.5 Paris (F), École des Mines38 Hamburg (D), Mus. Min.-Petr. Inst.36.1 Moscow (RU), Acad. Sci. 34 Turin (I), Univ. Mus 32.0 Harvard (MA, USA) Univ. Min. Mus
Re: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim meteorite tkw compilation
Hi Matteo, I believe I can trust you. Can you tell more ? A meteorwrong ? Some kind of (Ensisheim) plaster cast ? Or a real meteorite that is not Ensisheim ? Thanks for info, it always helps. I have another question for you about the following couple of data: Bologna (I), R. Serra coll. 1.63 g Bologna (I), Astron. Observatory1.6 Are these two collections the same ? (the weights are so close...). In other words, is Romano Serra Curator of the Bologna Observatory meteorite collection ? Thanks, Zelimir Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Potter
Hello Bernd, Darren Dirk, list My own Potter 58.15 g full slice (crusted on edges) carries an old J.D. Buddhue label, comes from Monnig coll. (M 24.2) and has the N° 476.17 (white numbers) painted on its edge. I (unfortunately) doubt it comes from Dirk's source (sigh!) but I'll be pleased to know who was Buddhue and whether the painted N° could mean it perhaps belonged to Nininger ? Bernd, congrats! Zelimir A 15:58 27/01/2007 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : http://www.spacerocksinc.com/January_27.html Hi Darren, Dirk, and List, Two pieces, 14 and 42 grams, of this interesting, brecciated L6 Nebraska chondrite with L5 components are in my collection. The 14-gram piece is from Walter Zeitschel. The 42-gram, cut individual is of special, personal interest as it is gift from list member Dirk Ross who is Cecil McKinney's great-grandson. Some of you will remember that it was the first prize in Dirk's Cubic Mineral Contest. Proud to own such a gift! Best regards, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ensisheim show 2007
Hola List, We are being receiving many inquiries about the dates of the 8th meteorite show Ensisheim 2007. The new circular and edvertisements should have been ready by now, however, unexpected technical (mainly computer) problems are forcing us to delay their public release. In about 3 weeks all should be ready. Info (In French and English) could then be found at our Ensisheim city web site, thus: http://www.ville-ensisheim.fr/ On the other hand, Nick Gessler kindly proposed us to create a specific web site that we could upload with the (English) circular and further info about the show. This should be done quite soon as well. The 2007 edition will be held from Friday June 15 to Sunday June 17. As in the past, we stay connected to the big Ste Marie mineral show that is nearby. Their dealer's days start as early as on Tuesday-Wednesday (June 19-20), in case you wish to attend both shows. The overall space available in Ensishim and table prices did not change. Regarding accomodation, we are happy to anounce that a large brand new hotel (many rooms) has been built in Ensisheim, at 150 m from the show (!). It will officially open this Spring but reservations can be made from now on. Prices are as fair as in the more traditional Niemerich and La Couronne, thus in the 70 euro range for double rooms breakfast included. (I have all the details, phones, faxes... available, please inquire). For those wanting to rent a car, we can provide info. The best tip is, for overseas guests, to fly to Zürich (international) with a short flight connection to Basel, that is the nearby airport (about 25 km from Ensisheim and less than 20 km from Mulhouse). Avoid flights to Paris if your purpose is specifically Ensisehim or Ste Marie. The topic (theme) emphasized in 2007 will concern the strange meteorite external shape and morphologies and their fascinating internal odd textures (title still to be refined). It will be supporetd by 2 lectures. The internal wonders (breccias, CAI's, unusual chondrules...) will be illustrated by super slides of thin sections taken by our first lecturer and new expert Roger Warin. The lecturer willing to describe and explain external features (orientation, crust, odd morphologies, grooves, holes, inclusions, clasts) is still badly wanted. If not found soon (are there voluntaries ?), either Sabine Valange or myself could take this responsibility (and pleasure) and tell you something about this, in a short talk. Many oddly shaped meteorites ande section in the corresponding exhibit (Regency Museum) will anyway speak by themselves, probably more than dozens of pictures and thousand words. The wild card will, this time, be given to Alain Carion and Pierre-Marie Pelé, who proposed to display exclusively their brand new (old) French meteorite, with a lot of (historical) data. I must also apologise for my 5 days silence on mail as many of you expected specific answerf from me. Our server did not cooperate this week and I lost (but partly found) many of my recent posts. Things gradually settle and I should be again in full contact next week. Have a nice Tucson fun all! Wish being with you but, besides the very busy schedule at work, I can't really decide is I prefer huge storms with mild temperatures here or your cold wave (snow ?) that showed these last days even in the deserts (kidding...). Storm restricted yesterday to (only) max 100 km/hour winds here in Mulhouse. I will now drive to Belgium and be there within the next 6 hours, hoping to see restricted damage. Best wishes, Zelimir Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 3159 - Vesicular, plutonic eucrite with (pre-)terrestrial crystals?
Gary, many thanks for the URL. Breathtaking photos indeed Bernd, I just cross my fingers the aggregate is not a simple sand grain embedded into the vesicle. I don't want to play the bird for the ill omen but this already happened to me...with some NWA, by definition found in (sandy) desert. Though in your case, the inclusion is really strange. Did you just try to touch it with some tiny tweezers or pin, just to see (under scope) whether it moves back and forth from its equilibrium position ? This sometimes (not always) happen with sand grains. A spot analysis of the gran would help. Though the whole sample is far too big for that doing. Detecting quartz would throw some doubt about the extra terrestrial origin of the aggregate. Bernd, knowing your care in examining all this closely, I am sure I am wroing with my simplistic speculations. Best wishes, Zelimir A 10:20 13/01/2007 -0500, Gary K. Foote a écrit : There is now a page online with photos, Bernd's comments and links to the larger photos. The URL is; http://www.meteorite-dealers.com/nwa3159eucrite-bernd.html Gary On 13 Jan 2007 at 13:59, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Greg, List, and Eucrite Buffs, I recently bought Greg's last piece of NWA 3159, a 10.7-gram individual. This is no.3 in my collection because there are already two breathtaking cut slices clearly showing the two distinct lithologies: 1. the black, shock-melted, vesicular areas 2. the normal brecciated eucritic areas I was wondering if I could also find the vesicular texture in an individual, and, I did find such areas. But, then, I held my breath when I also spotted a beautiful crystal aggregate of...maybe olivine or pyroxene under my micro- scope at 16x and 32x magnification! Yes, I know that olivine is not usually found in eucrites but it has been found in small amounts in NWA 011, in Macibini, in NWA 049, in NWA 1000, etc. I would like to invite those who have acquired such individuals from Greg and who can examine their pieces under high(er) magnifications to closely examine their specimens and maybe find such crystalline aggregates. Any input would be greatly appreciated! Mount Tazerzait and Baszkówka have taught us that such crystals can survive the meteorite's fiery descent through our atmosphere (if properly shielded). But these crystals in my NWA 3159 individual are not really within the meteorite's interior matrix but protrude from one of its vesicular cavities, in other words, they may have been exposed to the atmospheric forces *IF* they should be pre- terrestrial. Would do you think? Terrestrial or pre-terrestrial (= meteoritic)? And what are they? Quartz, pyroxene, olivine??? I will ask Jeff Kuyken, Mark Bostick, or Gary (or, maybe, all of them ;-) to host the pictures I've taken so you can see what I am talking about. Best eucritic and crystalline wishes, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] troilite euhedral crystals
Yes Dave, I know (as a chemist since the late 1960'...). Though I would expect that troilite would more rapidly react with HCl than a more complex sulphide of (Fe,Ni,Co) (but this is just a guess, I never tried a test reaction). Now, these crystals most probably represent a sulphide commonly found in OC's but that underwent far more dramatic (at least different) treatment conditions in space (in terms of ageing and perhaps passivation towards an oxidative of acidic aggressor) than on earth (just a speculation). What is sure is that it is metallic (luster), thus most probably sulphide and not elemental nickel (very unlikely). I will neve accept treating these beauties by HCl just to check what they are. I prefer to opt for some physico-chemical micro- and non destructive technique (experiments planned for future as we wish to perhaps publish these findings). And, above all, I wish to preserve this beauty. What an archive for extraterrestrial materials (heritage) so far so poor in crystals (but wait for future planetary explorations) Zelimir A 16:43 13/01/2007 +, vous avez écrit : Hi Zelimir Superb!!! A splash of HCl on them and the resulting odour of bad eggs will confirm if it is a sulphide or not! As a terrestrial mineral collector i'd certainly want one of these vuggy crystallline slices in my collection! top pics! Best! d. ---Original Message--- From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Zelimir Gabelica Date: 01/13/07 16:39:09 To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Dave Harris; mailto:meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.commetlist Cc: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]bernd Pauli; mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Gary K. Foote; mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]warin Roger Subject: troilite euhedral crystals Hello Dave, Gary, Bernd, Roger, list Dave, I am glad youthese mentioned euhedral (pyritohedral) troilite crystals. Well, I formely cut a Sierra Colorada (Argentina, L5) and two of the slices obtained contained large (almost centimetric) vugs, some making the 3 mm thick slice hollow! Looking inside is again really breathtaking. Several 5 to almost 10 mm (!) euhedral metallic crystals (also pyritohedral in shape) can be seen, aligned or dispersed, some as quasi isolated single crystals, onto the vug walls. One of them is sectioned through cutting and that small cut face (clearly seen on 2 pictures) indiceted to me, from the typical luster of the cut section, that these could be schreibersite (also possible, though perhaps less likely than troilite). See pictures 4741 and 4744. This is as spectacular as looking into a geode of a terrestrial mineral (although I have never seen terrestrial schreibersite, if ever it exists, because phosphides should readily yield phosphates in contact with air). My friend Roger Warin, not only expert in taking spectacular pictures of thin sections (see some preceding posts), was also able to realize superb close-ups of these geodes and schreibersite crystals. I have no web site to store these peictures for the list but I am enclosing 5 of them as attachments for Bernd, Dave, Roger and Gary . Should perhaps Gary find a way to put them on his URL and send the link to the list, this wouild be just great! Thanks! Pleased to read your comments. Take care, Zelimir A 16:13 13/01/2007 +, Dave Harris a écrit : Hi, My Mt. Taz definitely has euhedral crystals in the vesicles - unfortunately, my binocular microscope only magnifies to about x35 or so and they are very small (very sub-mm ) but become apparent when the specimen is tilted and the light glints off the faces. The structure is typically pyritohedral in shape - I am assuming (a dangerous thing to do) that these are Troilite xls. ..and I never got a response as to what gases made the vesicular structure! Best Dave IMCA #0092 Sec.BIMS http://www.bimsociety.orgwww.bimsociety.org __ Meteorite-list mailing list mailto:gt;Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comgt;Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 http://www.incredimail.com/index.asp?id=409lang=9IMSTP3.gif Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] [AD]Looking for.....
Hello Jan, I have the following, as duplicates (I am not a dealer and only sell/trade a piece when I can improve it in collection): 1) Lazarev: part slice of 7.14 g, one crusted edge, etched with nice W. pattern visible. Got from Sergey Vasiliev in 2005 but now duplicate 2) Mount Baldr: I have 2 small fragments, about 0.4 g each, gray (must check if some crust present but I doubt). Believe I got them from Rob Elliott in 2003 (not sure) The bad news is that these are in my collection that is in Belgium. But (exceptionnally), this week I am in France and back only next Saturday. Probably too late for you to get the pieces for Tucson if ever you are interested. That is also the reason I can't describe them better(sizes etc). They are just only mentioned and roughly described on my sales computer list. I don't remember the prices either but am ready to release these at a lower price than purchased. I hope you have better luck elsewhere. Very cordially, Zelimir PS: Yvonne and you are always welcome in Ensisheim! A 20:11 13/01/2007 +0100, vous avez écrit : Dear listoids, Has anyone some fragments of Lazarev or Mount Baldr for sale (or trade)?? And if possible can bring 'm to the Tucson show..that is...if you'll be there? Let me know of list please. Greetings, Jan Yvonne. Holland www.heavenlybodies.nl meteorites Close encounters of the best kind. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ensisheim tkw
Hello List, In late 2003, I started a compilation of the weights of all the Ensisheim meteorite fragments, slices...owned in museums, institutes, private collections... I received much help from the list and, after completing the official data, I came up by December 11, 2003 with the following list (see balow) that was most probably far from being complete but that represented so far the best approximation of what was where. In particular, I did not contact the official institutes, museums...to ask them to update their published data (in various journals, books, publications...) so that substantial discrepancies appeared when (only) 3 officiel sources were compared (see part I below). At that time, my call for the total mass of Ensisheim meteorite samples preserved in private and public collections was aimed at trying to find out whether there was a difference (gap) between the initial mass (127 kg) and the present total mass of all Ensisheim fragments dispersed in collections, including the main massheld in Regency Palace of Ensisheim (53.831 kg). To make a long story short, my preliminary compilation, although far from being exhaustive, strongly suggested that this difference is substantial and probably reflects various losses and destructions during 515+ years. The present similar call for the weights (masses) of Ensisheim represented in your collections has a double goal: 1) To complete, update and/or correct the 2003 compilation below, so as to allow Jörn Koblitz (Met Base) and others to update the official repository listings. 2) To add such an updated list to a pamphlet we wish to print and include in the catalog of the forthcoming Ensisheim 2007 meteorite show that will be distributed to all the participants next 15-17 June. This must be printed quite soon so I would very much appreciate a prompt answer from all those who are the happy owners of some Ensisheim piece(s) or also who know about pieces held elsewhere (out of the list influence). I'll keep you regularly informed with the results. THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH! All my best wishes, Zelimir --- Preliminary compilation of the Ensisheim meteorite weights, owned by different institutes or held in private collections, as compiled by Zelimir Gabelica (France). Last update: December 11, 2003, 12:00 GMT Part I: Comparison of data from 3 different sources: 1) List of repositories and private collection weights coming from database recently built by Russell Kempton (NEMS) and sent to me as per Dec. 1, 2003. 2) Weights listed in the BM. Catalog (M. Grady, Ed. 2000) 3) Weights reported in our own Red Book archiving the History of Ensisheim (ENSISHEIM, Son Histoire à travers les Pierres, edited by the Confrérie St Georges des Gardiens de la Météorite d'Ensisheim, Sept. 1993, 133 pp, Table p 25 (World Distribution of the Ensisheim Meteorite Fragments, as compiled by J. Schmutzer, Hamburg, Gremany), data that are probably fragmentary and that need updating. PlaceNEMS BM CatalogRed Book Ensisheim, Musée Régence (*) 54.51 kg 55.75kg 55.75kg Paris, Mus. d'Hist. Nat 10.2 kg 9.79 kg9.79kg London; Nat. Hist. Mus. 911g 911.2g689g (!) Berlin, Mus.Humboldt Univ. 906g 905g 905g Vienna, Naturhist. Mus. 660g 588g (!) 660g Washington, U.S. Nat. Mus.235g 258g (!) 458g (!!) Tübingen, Min.-Petrogr. Inst. 220g 316g (!) 316g (!) Uppsala Univ. Mus. - -210g (?) Malta, Montana, M. Cilz coll.- - 504g (?) Tempe, Arizona State Univ.155g 209g (!)209.5g (!) Brussels, Inst. Roy. Sci. Mus. 191g-191.4g Zürich, ETH 189g- - Modena, Min. Inst. Univ. 177g - 177g Tucson, Haag coll. (**). 176g-176g Cambridge, Univ.(GB)133g-147g Chicago, Field Mus. N. Hist. 115g109g 110g New York, Amer. Mus. N. Hist. 112g111g 127g Göttingen, Min. Inst. Univ. 111g-158.6g (!) Karlsruhe Univ. - - 142.0g (?) Stockholm, Naturhist. Riksmus.80g - 51.0g (!) Troyes, Mus. d'Hist. Nat. 79.1g - 82.0g (!) Calcutta, Mus. Geol. Surv. India 77g 77g 76.9g Copenhagen, Univ. Geol. Mus. 77g -77.0g Rome, Vatican
Re: [meteorite-list] Forestburg (b) L5 chondrite
Hello Bernd, Gary, list I completely agree with Bernd regarding the aesthetics of Forestburg (b). I was lucky enough to acquire a 315 g complete slice in the old good times (1995) when such beauties were available here and there and their gram prices quite affordable. David New was, at that time, such a person, one of the most expertized meteorite dealers, a man full of knowledge, fairness, kindness and respect towards collectors. Bernd should not contradict me. Regarding that slice of Forestburg (b), David told me one day something like Zelimir, if you are a true collector, you must take that one. It was not listed for sale but rather a specific offer from David for a beginner-collector and friend. And, believe me, he did not push the sale for some profit as David first wanted our satisfaction. In this case, mine was reached beyond all my expectations and I agreed to get it without even having a preliminary idea of its aspect, except a short description, because I just trusted my friend. I have no pictures on hand to show you but here is a summary of its characteristics. It is a 150 x 70 mm full slice, 15 mm thick. Both sides are neatly polished and show a black pattern, full of metal (Fe-Ni) spots, grains and islets, along with some schreibersite patches. It nicely contrasts with the thick red-brown crust well visible all around and carrying a painted number M 148.1b (Monnig collection at TCU). I don't remember having noticed any greenish inclusion (as, e.g., in Belle Plaine or Lahoma, to cite 2 other meteorites that involve such inclusions ) but will check this later for sure. Needless to say this slice remains as one of my collection master pieces. The conclusion of this example is that sometimes one does not necessarily need some rare meteorite type to appreciate an odd pattern and that sometimes a simple L5 or H6 can offer some extraordinary fairy-like picture. I understand how Gary and Bernd did appreciate their acquisition of Forestburg (b). The other, and perhaps even more rewarding conclusion is that you can sometimes get the best of the best by just trusting a genuine friend and his expertise, if you are lucky enough to know such a person. And I am sure such people are certainly still numerous around us, within our listthey should recognize themselves... Best wishes, Zelimir A 21:46 07/01/2007 +, vous avez écrit : Hello Gary and List, I just received and photographed this very nice slice of Forestburg (b) from the Hupe Collection...and this one is just beautiful Shock stage S5, weathering grade W1; the chondrite is shock blackened and contains impact melt clasts. If you want to take a look it is here: http://www.meteorite-dealers.com/forestburg2-6.html Congratulations, Gary! Excellent choice! Anyone who hasn't seen this beauty yet, should do so. Like Gary, I am one of the happy owners of a beautiful Forestburg (b) slice. Forestburg (b) is much more handsome than Forestburg (a). My Forestburg (a/b) slices are from M. Cottingham and when I first saw Michael's Forestburg (b) pictures on EBay, I knew I had to own it. It still is one of my all-time favorites with its grayish-black, fresh matrix, its abundant, evenly distributed FeNi specks, and its grayish-white oval chondrules! Although it is possible that the stone has been transported by water (rusty brown, weathered fusion crust), it is so very fresh that it seems improbable that it was exposed to water for a longer period of time. Even though its Fa value of 25.8 puts it in the vicinity of the LL chondrites, its low-Ca pyroxene composition (Fs21.6) is still within the range for L chondrites. What a meteorite! Best wishes, Bernd To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] D. New's old meteorite lists
Hi Alex, all, Alex, it seems we were almost at the same place at the same time in the recent past when we both started collecting meteorites (I did in 1992 thanks to David's wise advice, probably you earlier ?). I visited him in Anacortes in 1992 and 1995, at least for meteorites (I did several other times for minerals, in Mukilteo, where David lived before moving a little bit Southwards to Anacortes, since...1980). And yes: all my 100+ thin sections did come exclusively from David as well. Your idea to try to find out and gather David's old lists describing meteorites and their prices is indeed brillant! I certainly second it. I am also ready to contribute but am affraid having only a few of them, basically from 1993 up to ...? I am sure Bernd could help as well. Perhaps (certainly ?) Mark (Bostick) and many more of you guys from overseas, I believe. Well, the idea is: Shall I ask...David ? Let me reassure you, Margaret and David are doing very well and are in excellent shape! I got news from them...some minutes ago. I know that he is not anymore really willing to remain on the scene so we use stay in touch for many things we have in common, other than meteorites, but certainly still also meteorites, at least regarding general debates and advices David can provide. I can at least ask hiw whether he still has copies of his past lists in his files and whether he can agree we use these lists for the best of the reasons: preserve a specific cultural heritage. I know that David nowadays prefers remaining more behind the curtain so I would prefer first hear your feelings for such contact to be pertinent, before trying to contact him officially for that, on anynone's behalf. Let me know your thoughts. Alex, we have much to talk about this passionate past times, in the 2007 Ensisheim session, if you can make it... Cordially, Zelimir A 19:03 08/01/2007 +0100, Alexander Seidel a écrit : I wonder if there is anyone out there who has collected all those price lists that David New used to send to his customers via airmail - which happened in the pre-internet times, of course. I would have to dig in my old files to still find a few of them, but may be someone out there has a more complete collection of the lists, with David´s very unique description of his offered pieces, superb always being top choice! :-) Bernd, I know you have many, if not all of these in your archives, at least for as long as you collect meteorites... These lists, if they were scanned and somehow made available via the net, would be a great show example of how things were in the later second half of the last century - I would even call it sort of cultural heritage with respect to the meteorite business. I loved to communicate with David over many years, until he somehow disappeared from the (active) dealer scene and even in more recent times on a more private basis, and I hope he is still around at good health together with his wife Margaret. In the early Ninetees I once visited him at his home in Anacortes, Washington. A real gentleman, and great guy! PS: btw he was the first one to offer meteoritic thin sections to a wider public, and I am proud that most of my 150+ specimens have gone through his hands. Alex Berlin/Germany Original-Nachricht Datum: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 18:41:13 +0100 Von: Zelimir Gabelica [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Forestburg (b) L5 chondrite Hello Bernd, Gary, list I completely agree with Bernd regarding the aesthetics of Forestburg (b). I was lucky enough to acquire a 315 g complete slice in the old good times (1995) when such beauties were available here and there and their gram prices quite affordable. David New was, at that time, such a person, one of the most expertized meteorite dealers, a man full of knowledge, fairness, kindness and respect towards collectors. Bernd should not contradict me. Regarding that slice of Forestburg (b), David told me one day something like Zelimir, if you are a true collector, you must take that one. It was not listed for sale but rather a specific offer from David for a beginner-collector and friend. And, believe me, he did not push the sale for some profit as David first wanted our satisfaction. In this case, mine was reached beyond all my expectations and I agreed to get it without even having a preliminary idea of its aspect, except a short description, because I just trusted my friend. I have no pictures on hand to show you but here is a summary of its characteristics. It is a 150 x 70 mm full slice, 15 mm thick. Both sides are neatly polished and show a black pattern, full of metal (Fe-Ni) spots, grains and islets, along with some schreibersite patches. It nicely contrasts with the thick red-brown crust well visible all around and carrying a painted number M 148.1b (Monnig collection at TCU). I don't
Re: [meteorite-list] D. New's old meteorite lists
Original-Nachricht Datum: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 18:41:13 +0100 Von: Zelimir Gabelica [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Forestburg (b) L5 chondrite Hello Bernd, Gary, list I completely agree with Bernd regarding the aesthetics of Forestburg (b). I was lucky enough to acquire a 315 g complete slice in the old good times (1995) when such beauties were available here and there and their gram prices quite affordable. David New was, at that time, such a person, one of the most expertized meteorite dealers, a man full of knowledge, fairness, kindness and respect towards collectors. Bernd should not contradict me. Regarding that slice of Forestburg (b), David told me one day something like Zelimir, if you are a true collector, you must take that one. It was not listed for sale but rather a specific offer from David for a beginner-collector and friend. And, believe me, he did not push the sale for some profit as David first wanted our satisfaction. In this case, mine was reached beyond all my expectations and I agreed to get it without even having a preliminary idea of its aspect, except a short description, because I just trusted my friend. I have no pictures on hand to show you but here is a summary of its characteristics. It is a 150 x 70 mm full slice, 15 mm thick. Both sides are neatly polished and show a black pattern, full of metal (Fe-Ni) spots, grains and islets, along with some schreibersite patches. It nicely contrasts with the thick red-brown crust well visible all around and carrying a painted number M 148.1b (Monnig collection at TCU). I don't remember having noticed any greenish inclusion (as, e.g., in Belle Plaine or Lahoma, to cite 2 other meteorites that involve such inclusions ) but will check this later for sure. Needless to say this slice remains as one of my collection master pieces. The conclusion of this example is that sometimes one does not necessarily need some rare meteorite type to appreciate an odd pattern and that sometimes a simple L5 or H6 can offer some extraordinary fairy-like picture. I understand how Gary and Bernd did appreciate their acquisition of Forestburg (b). The other, and perhaps even more rewarding conclusion is that you can sometimes get the best of the best by just trusting a genuine friend and his expertise, if you are lucky enough to know such a person. And I am sure such people are certainly still numerous around us, within our listthey should recognize themselves... Best wishes, Zelimir Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Forestburg (b) L5 chondrite - A Fairy Tale
Many thanks Bernd! The picture is wonderful indeed. Upon checking my collection catalog, I note having also got a thin section of the same meteorite (David New, 1998). However, I also note I sold that slice (and many others for which I had the real meteorite represented in collection) to my friend Roger Warin (enthroned Ensisheim 2006) who, as expert scientist, recently fell in love for meteorite thin sections and all what is behind. Roger is especially becoming keen in taking micrographs of TS' under polarized light. As a recent list member, Roger is certainly reading this post and I can bet he can provide us rapidly a picture of that Forestburg(b) thin section. If not done yet, I am even more sure he is willing to do it...tonight (I well know Roger's passions...). Eh, Roger ? (Story to be continued). By the way, I also note I have a second slice of Forestburg (b) in collection. Got from Blaine Reed (another very nice and honest guy) in 1998. It is a 127.4 g part slice, 100x55x4 mm, black, lots of metal and some light gray chondrules. I can't say more as I am only reading the description in my catalog. If I retained it in colection means that it definitely shown something different than my big slice. I will have a closed look next week and tell you more. Gary or Mark might be anxious to know whether there are some greenish spots around ? Zelimir A 19:05 08/01/2007 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : Gary wrote: If you want to take a look [at Gary's slice] it is here: http://www.meteorite-dealers.com/forestburg2-6.html Mark writes: A photograph from my Forestburg (b) thin section is shown here: http://www.meteoritearticles.com/colforestburgbts.html Zélimir writes: ...sometimes a simple L5 or H6 can offer some extraordinary fairy-like picture. I understand how Gary and Bernd did appreciate their acquisition of Forestburg (b). Hello Zélimir, Gary, Mark B. and List, There is one such fairy-like chondrule in my Forestburg (b) thin section. It features a prominent polysomatic megachondrule measuring 5 millimeters in largest dimension. It is a complex, oval, barred olivine-pyroxene chondrule and displays stunning interference colors of purple, pink, blue, yellow, orange and turquoise under crossed polars. What a masterpiece by Mother Nature! Best wishes, Bernd P.S.: Thin section pic attached for Zélimir, Gary, and Mark! To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Bernd: by ALL means!
Hi Rob, You are completely right. I used the worst phrasing I could! Wanted to write by ALL means...No misspelling, no odd translation (in French it just means the same), just... rush and inadvertence! And I used it twice! Now I also realize that even by all means is not strong enough to express my support to Bernd. I agree that perhaps by all measures would be more appropriate to use here. Rob, thank you very much for the remark that certainly now throws more light on what I had in mind. My error was not even humorous, just unintentional, as I could never have imagined writing my friend Bernd would be far from the best choice...I wouldn't write that even for an ennemy! Bernd, who is as fluent in English as he is in...French!, most certainly understood my poor phrasing and corrected by himself. He knows all about my appreciation of his achievements, erudition and his always friendly willing to help. Finally Rob, your remark not only helps removing doubts regarding my appreciation of Bernd's achievements and kindness but is perhaps here the best advertising for his nomination. I am so very happy he is being unanimously proposed. All my best wishes for Christmas and a happy New Year 2007 (with many finds and, why not, some falls into your backyards ?) to all of you, English natives or speaking, overchannel (UK), overseas (US), down under(Austr. NZ) and...wherever in the world. Don't forget, Ensisheim-2007 is now expecting your visit! A sweet opportunity to learn some essential...French! Zelimir A 12:19 21/12/2006 -0800, vous avez écrit : Hi Zelimir, When I read the beginning of your message, I thought you were about to suggest nominating a name OTHER than Bernd -- which of course would be perfectly fine to do. Only upon reading your whole message did it occur to me that, as good as your English is (which is excellent by the way), it isn't your first language, so you wouldn't necessarily realize the unintentionally humorous errors in your post: Bernd is by no means the best candidate deserving such a nomination. I think what you meant to say was something like Bernd is by all measures the best candidate deserving such a nomination. The way you've worded it, you're suggesting that Bernd isn't even close to being the best choice (implying that you can think of many others more deserving). ;-) I'm pretty sure it's just a translation oddity from French to English, as you use the by no means phrase (again, with humorous result) at the end of your post: ...on behalf of many silent listees from my area who ... are by no means honored to have him as friend. I'm sure your intent was, of course, very honored. ;-) I certainly agree that Bernd is an excellent choice assuming public nomination for a Harvey Prize is acceptable protocol. Best wishes and Joyeux Noël from across the Pond, Rob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zelimir Gabelica Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 8:29 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 2007 Peoples Choice Harvey Award Nominee Mark, List Bernd is by no means the best candidate deserving such a nomination. I hope that even though I can't attend Tucson, I can feel free to second the proposal, personally but also on behalf of many silent listees from my area who are enjoying Bernd's scientific (and personal) contributions related to meteorites and alike on the list and who are by no means honored to have him as friend. Excellent idea Mark! Best wishes for 2007 to all, Zelimir __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 2007 Peoples Choice Harvey Award Nominee
Mark, List Bernd is by no means the best candidate deserving such a nomination. I hope that even though I can't attend Tucson, I can feel free to second the proposal, personally but also on behalf of many silent listees from my area who are enjoying Bernd's scientific (and personal) contributions related to meteorites and alike on the list and who are by no means honored to have him as friend. Excellent idea Mark! Best wishes for 2007 to all, Zelimir At 03:53 AM 12/21/2006, MARK BOSTICK wrote: Hello Everybody, As the time is getting close, perhaps now we should think about the tradition started last year (is that an oxymoran or what?) at the Birthday Bash, with the 2007 Peoples Choice Harvey Award. White it is preferred that winners attend the 2007 Tucson show, where the treasured awards are given away by Geoff Notkin and Steve Brenham Arnold, an exception was made last year. Due to Bernd years of contributions, I would humbly like to nominate list contributor Bernd Pauli for the 2007 People's Choice Harvey Award Nominee. From helping me and others off-list, to providing short references, for your own general meteorite observations, or sharing those such as Buchwald comments, answering questions and the general sharing of information. And interesting to note, in my 5-6 years as a list member, I can not remember one AD by you...surely there is one in those archivessomewhere...:^) A true collector, an honest man and a valued friend of many...I imagine I can speak for most of the list Bernd when I say Thank You! to you and your wife. (Perhaps more so the later or we would never have Bernd in our e-mail boxes). You are model for the list and we do appreciate your efforts. Clear Skies, Mark Bostick Kansas Meteorite Society, Founder/Board Member International Meteorite Collectors Association, Co-Founder (Round 2)/Board Member/Treasure Wichita Gem and Mineral Society Member Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT: Tis the Season... again
yet to discover. HO, HO, HO. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] the new brazilian meteorite
Hello List, Anne, Svend, Mike, Steve... Happy to learn the recent history of the remaining 10 kg of Santa Vitoria (potentially available to collectors). I am the happy owner of a 446 g full slice of Santa Vitoria, recently got from Blaine. Extraordinary and showy pattern. Price not so far from the ~$3.00 gram, as Mike anounced (the gram price is indeed more favorable for higher weights). I also got a small very nice thin slice in Ensisheim, from Hans Koser who got it from Svend. I am keeping both in collection as they show complementary characteristics. Don't have pictures on hand but here are the descriptions (from my catalog): SANTA VITORIA DO PALMAR (R.G. Sul, Brasil, L3)(S3/4W2), fell 1997 (?), found: 2003-04. 25x25x3 mm partly crusted part slice (weight ?) involving a 12x8 mm tan clast composed of (almost ?) pure olivine. Detailed history on Bühl's web site. Updated in MB # 91. TKM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] kg. Ref coll: HK 06/478 SANTA VITORIA DO PALMAR (R.G. Sul, Brasil, L3)(S3/4W2), fell 1997 (?), found: 2003-04. 195x155x4 mm full slice, 446.0 g, crust all around, composed of (mostly) magenta-red chondrules, some metal-armored various clasts. Very colorful pattern. Ref. coll: BR 06/345 Just to stimulate the discussions...oh yes, Svand's article in Meteorite but especially his web site are so very imformative! Best wishes, Zelimir A 15:54 11/12/2006 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : In a message dated 12/11/2006 10:41:00 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: only about 30 pounds! It is only selling for ~$3.00 gram, so there is enough to keep the price low. Mike --- steve arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi list.I know that most of this new stone has been lost,and that a few people have most of the main piecs,but what is around for most collecters?I hear it is not alot.I am just wondering. steve __ Sorry to disagree with you, Mike, but there never was 30 pounds of Santa Vitoria do Palmar on the market. The only mass that was ever available was about 10 kilos, the rest went to a local museum. Of that 10 kilos mass, some went to the Humboldt University for classification, and to Dr. Svend Buhl for his own collection. And I got some from him in Ensisheim. In Denver you saw what remained of the main mass, about 8 kilos. It was purchased by Blaine Reed, Robert Cucchiara and myself. Robert and Blaine chose to have their third sliced by Marlin Cilz, about 2 and 1/2 kilos each BEFORE cutting. I kept mine whole, so I now have the main mass of Santa Vitoria, 2238 grams. Plus what I had previously acquired. So I probably have more Santa Vitoria than anyone else. And I am not selling mine at $3/gram. It is a beautiful L3 with lots of colorful chondrules, of all types and shades. Go take a look at the pictures on my Catalog! For a lot more information and the whole story of that meteorite, you really should take a look at Svend's site: _http://www.niger-meteorite-recon.de/en/Santa-Vitoria-meteorite-1.htm_ (http://www.niger-meteorite-recon.de/en/Santa-Vitoria-meteorite-1.htm) You too, Steve. Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] President, I.M.C.A. Inc. www.IMCA.cc __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] organics in Murchison
Hello Bernd, List, I finally happend to solve my mail connection problems with the List and with many of you in the US as well. I am aware I owe answers to many of you over there (Bob Verish in particular). Please be patient for a few more days. Referring to the recent posts about NWA 2140 and its bibble-gum-like smelling, and to the now extended debate towards the famous Murchison content of many aromatic molecules documented in the appropriate literature and popularized in Haag's text, I wish to send an info and a request 1) Info (brief summary): With a couple of specialized scientists, we will soon start an original reserach dealing with a quantitative analysis of traces (in the ppm and even in the ppb range) of organic molecules in meteorites. We will be using, for the first time, and in combination with other techniques, an Electro-Spray MS instrument that has the highest possible resolution (equipped with a 15 Tesla generator). No details needed here but I believe specialists could appreciate. This prototype was built in Munich and is about ready for various preliminary test experiments. We had planned to examine some typical carbonaceous chondrites (also others, later) that contain various organic (volatile or specific solvent-soluble) original (= exclusively extra-terrestrial) molecules. It is of the utmost importance that the samples are as little contaminated as possible. We opted in particular for Murchison, probably the richest in such compounds and the most documented, that we envisage, in a first step, to use as reference to calibrate the machine. I could provide more details on this study in due time but this roughly summarizes what we will be dealing with, soon. I do have Murchison, a 34.7 g, 80% crusted and fully oriented sample, coming from the old Reeves collection and got from David New in 1995. It is too pity to use it for destruction (grinding) for this study. It still smells hydrocarbons (undefined but pleasent smell). I have another 1.5 g thin slice of the same (40x27x1 mm complete slice) (from Eric Twelker, 2006) but it is probably too thin and thereby likely to be devoid from (some?...many ?) organics. 2) Request: Before we envisage to contact some official Institute for sample donation for study, we first decided to try simple: We wish to purchase from a reliable source a fragment of Murchison, about 1 g or, better, 2 grams chunk, thick enough and possibly well preserved so as to still potentionally contain originel organics. The piece can be a crumble and ugly; it will be powdered and thus lost as collectible. Any fair offer at the most friendly price will be considered. I also gladly accept comments and advices from specialists from this List. The results (exciting by essence as we expect to detect traces of some odds as well), when finalized and possibly published in some specialized journal, will be also proposed for publication as a more popularized note in Meteorite. Many thanks in advance. Best wishes, Zelimir A 12:17 05/12/2006 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : HAAG ROBERT (1997) Field Guide of Meteorites (10th + 12th Anniversary Editions, 1991 + 1997, p. 36): Betty Maslin, a Murchison, Australia resident, displays the smelly rocks that landed on the outskirts of town one Sunday morning in September, 1969. Detonations and hissing noises were heard when the fireball exploded and smoke rings were seen hanging in the air. Some 700 kilos of stones rained out of the sky, covering 33 square kilometers, and stinking up the town with the smell of methylated spirits. (Betty and her father found the two largest pieces by the road.) The jar Mrs. Maslin is holding had been sealed for ten years, and when I opened it, the smell of alcohol and ether was still strong enough to nearly put me under. Hello List, For those list members who don't have these field guides, I'm going to send the picture from Bob's Field Guide to Jeff Kuyken who can then upload it for everyone to have a look. Thanks in advance, Jeff! Cheers, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] History of meteorite collecting
Martin wrote: Hstory, can please someone write an article about meteorite collecting from the 20ies to the 60ies, after the big national races in 19th century and a little bit later too, the establishing of the large collections of the worlds, I feel always such a large gap in the history of meteorite collecting until in the 60ies, 70ies one can read again more about meteorites. From the time inbetween I have no ideas. Only sporadical episodes, that poor Nininger was forced to tinker funny stars from Canyon spherules in his museum for not having to starve. Thanks Martin Hi Martin, all, You can perhaps first read the wonderful book just out of press (June 2006): The History of Meteoritics and Key Meteorite Collections: Fireballs, Falls and Finds Edited by G.J.H. McCall, A.J. Howden R.J. Howarth (Geological Society Publishing House, London, Special Publication, ISBN 10: 1-86239-194-7, hardback, 520 pages, special price: £61.75/$111.15 (35% off list price) + postage, valiid until Xth (?) of December 2006 To order, consult their site: www.geolsoc.org.uk There are 24 chapters of the highest interest dealing basically with meteorite in history (overview from Renaisance to the 20th century, L'Aigle, etc...), on history of key meteorite collections, essentially museums (Vienna, Berlin, London, Paris, Russian Acad Sciences, Smithsonian, AMNH, Tokyo, Perth...), chapters on desert meteorites (Bevan), and 8 more general chapters on contemporary meteorites (chondrules, CAI'S, age determinations, provenance and asteroid connection, Martian origin, meteorites origin of the solar system, history of meteorite cratering, tektites..) If you start reading, prepare a comfortable night with lots of coffee. This is not really what you wanted (collecting in 20ies to 60ies) but would give you a first idea. The chapters on the history of the key museum collections is captivating (and updated!). I agree though that your request remains open. Are Kevin (Kitchinka) or Martin (Horejsi), others (?) ready to contribute ? Could one expect from them (and others) perhaps some nice paper in prespective for Meteorite Times ? Best to all, Zelimir Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] COMETS AND CARBONACEOUS CHONDRITES
of carbonaceous chondrites or source regions of the primordial solar nebula. Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: E.P. Grondine [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 5:48 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 2003 EL61, IN PERSON Hi Sterling - With Chiemgau under challenge, the only evidence of heavy elements in comets that I can easily point to is the increased iridium at the KT boundary. I can't really comment on metals in carbonaceous chondrite meteorites, and right now I would be most interested in data from others on these. good hunting, Ed __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Test (delete)
Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorite Hammers: an additive list
or know of any applicable material not on my site that is available for mere money, please let me know. I will give anyone a nice finder's fee for any material I end up purchasing as a result of a lead given to me. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] test2 (delete)
Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorite Hammers: an additive list
let me know. I will give anyone a nice finder's fee for any material I end up purchasing as a result of a lead given to me. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] old chinese meteorite coins
Hello Dirk, list, Regarding old chinese coins possibly made from meteorites, here is a document showing one of them from the Yuan dynasty, perdiod around 1341-1370 AD. (hope the link works). http://www.geocities.com/meteoritetaipei/well_being_a1.htm It happened that I could acquire such a coin, thus identical to the one pictured. Two questions arise. 1) Is this coin really made from some iron meteorite? I will be able very soon to bring some answer by submitting the coin to a non destructive (EDX) analysis and check for Fe and Ni and possibly for other elements. The detection of only Fe (along some other metals but without Ni) would mean it is a fake, which, according to what is claimed in the text, could posibly constitute the oldest fake of an object supposedly being made from a meteorte. If the piece is really genuine (as claimed by the antiquarian seller) it should bear major Fe and minor Ni (say from 6 to about 20% Ni) but only traces (if any) of other elements (for example, the presence of Si, P, S...can also account for possible silicate, phosphide, sulfide... inclusions in the original meteoritic iron). And, last but not least, if only Fe and Ni are detected, this can also always correspond to some old artificially made coin from a (Fe,Ni) alloy (very unlikely though). I will keep you informed on the future analytical results. So far did someone (or Dirk) ever came across of such a coin and did someone analyze it ? 2) In case this coin appears to be a meteorite, could someone (possibly Dirk, who seems to be very well documented) guess which meteoritic iron was used to make such a coin? Many old falls are indeed documented or at least vaguely mentioned in the old chinese literature. But possibly not such old falls. The coin could also stem from some old meteoritic iron find in this vast area. The original meteorite was perhaps also found also out of the present chinese borders? 3) It is not impossible that the seller may get some more of such coins (I am crossing the fingers) so that it would be even more interesting to analyze several such coins and compare. Other considerations: - My coin has a typical square hole (Earth) and is rounded (Sky), as recently pointed out by Dirk. - My piece is moderately weathered (rust) but the ideograms can be clearly seen. I can make a photo, if someone interested. - The fact that this coin was not made to circulate as money but rather to give extra power and protection to the owner (see text in the link) could argue for its genuine meteoritic origin. The question here is how many of such coins could have been made ? Probably rather few...unless they were made out of a huge iron like Hoba. To my (poor) knowledge, the famous Armanty meteorite, the enormous IIIE 28 tons iron found in Xinjiang and now exhibited in Urumqi (pronounce urumutchi) does not show cut sides. But there are so many other potential meteoritic iron finds The story is to be continued but I'd be glad to read any further comment or idea. All the best, Zelimir A 09:53 14/09/05 -0700, vous avez écrit : Dear List and Chris, Todays research results from ancient Chinese literature: Ref: Needham, Vol.III, 20. Astronomy, pg. 434 Meteorites had many other names in Chinese books besides the yun already mentioned, or yun-shih. Further information is contained in a valuable chapter by Chang Hung-Chao, who points out that one of the oldest names must be that contained in the Shan Hai Ching (Ch. 16), namely thien Chhuan, `hounds of heaven`. He also notes that meteorites were often confused (as in other civilisations) with stone axes of the Neolithic period. There is a reference to this in the Chiu Thang Shu (Old History of the Thang Dynasty), where, about +660, a meteorite presented to the emperor was called `the stone axe of the thunder-god` (Lei Kung Shih Fu). Other names were `the thunder-god`s ink block@ (lei mo) or `thunder-lumps` (phi li chen), and it is these which formed the headings under which Li Shen-Chen in th +16th century treated meteorites in his Pen Tshao Kang Mu. Best, Dirk Ross...Tokyo __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] old chinese meteorite coins
Hi Mark, Ken, Dirk, List, Mark, you are completely right. What you say (powder and flat surface needed, also along with other instrumental requirements and standardization proceses) is valid for a true microprobe. And EDX (Energy Dispersive X-Ray analysis, performed under an electronic microscope on samples without really flat surfaces) can give you at the best a semi quantitative results, say better a qualitative analysis (only presence or absence of Ni and Fe K-alpha (K-beta) peaks. These can indeed vary sustantially in intensity (thet is proportional to the amount if X-rays emitted and thus to the amount of each metal) as a function of the sample orientation in the beam. The roughness of the surface is responsible of the various angles under which the electrons reach the surface, therefore the depth at which they penetrate the surface, this causing a large variation of the intensity of the X-Rays emitted from the core electron shells. In simpler words no reliable relative Ni-Fe percentages can be derived by EDX. But a qualitative detection in this case is enough, especially if many different areas of the coin are probed, to have a guess of the presence (or absence) of Ni and its very approximate amount. In other words, if I always see the K-alpha peak of Ni, for example after 5 different probings the coin surface, this will mean to me that Ni is present. With an accurate standard (for example a flat piece of Gibeon) I could at least very roughly evaluate the Ni % range (and of course not accurate % value). This would mean to me that we probably deal with a meteorite. Of course, only then some other accurate quantitative measurements must be done. Yes, XRD can work as well but here indeed I am familiar with powder XRD (on flat holders or in capillary) and this supposes destroying a small part of the coin. Thanks for having warned me about Taipei fakes. My supplier was just willing to lend me the coin for analysis and envisaged selling it only if my analysis would have strongly suggested that we deal with a real meteorite. I have nothing to loose here but just expect having some exciting thrill in trying. Experiments are scheduled at the best for the end of next week as the instrument is fully reserved for other analyses. I'll keep you informed for sure. Glad to read any further comment. All the best and good luck for the big raffle in Denver! Zelimir A 16:10 14/09/05 -0400, vous avez écrit : Both x-ray diffraction XRD and x-ray spectometry XRF(fluorescence) will allow for non-destructive testing, but the operator has to understand that its the relatively flat surface that allows for this to be done, and so must make an equally non-destructive mount for the coin. I have done x-ray spectrometry on flat pieces of chert (normally, the rock is finely ground to a flour and mixed with something like lithium tetraborate and melted to form a glass disk which is then further flattened so that a nice flat surface is presented to be tested) which were placed in the holders so that as flat a surface as possible was presented. And, it works fairly well. The XRD will also work, but again, a modified holder will be needed to hold the coin. Can't wait to hear the results. Mark - Original Message - From: Zelimir Gabelica [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 3:27 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] old chinese meteorite coins Hello Dirk, list, Regarding old chinese coins possibly made from meteorites, here is a document showing one of them from the Yuan dynasty, perdiod around 1341-1370 AD. (hope the link works). http://www.geocities.com/meteoritetaipei/well_being_a1.htm It happened that I could acquire such a coin, thus identical to the one pictured. Two questions arise. 1) Is this coin really made from some iron meteorite? I will be able very soon to bring some answer by submitting the coin to a non destructive (EDX) analysis and check for Fe and Ni and possibly for other elements. The detection of only Fe (along some other metals but without Ni) would mean it is a fake, which, according to what is claimed in the text, could posibly constitute the oldest fake of an object supposedly being made from a meteorte. If the piece is really genuine (as claimed by the antiquarian seller) it should bear major Fe and minor Ni (say from 6 to about 20% Ni) but only traces (if any) of other elements (for example, the presence of Si, P, S...can also account for possible silicate, phosphide, sulfide... inclusions in the original meteoritic iron). And, last but not least, if only Fe and Ni are detected, this can also always correspond to some old artificially made coin from a (Fe,Ni) alloy (very unlikely though). I will keep you informed on the future analytical results. So far did someone (or Dirk) ever came across of such a coin and did someone analyze it ? 2) In case
[meteorite-list] Brahin in Ensisheim
Hello Vincent, Jörn, List, Being directly responsible for Ensisheim reservations, Neith Investment Ttd is unknown to me as (Russian) dealer in Ensisheim. There should be another name behind that I should know better. This being, I fully agree with Jörn not to blame the dealer, at least for Brahin the Ruster. I personally had the very similar problem with Dronino (about the same disaster within one year). I showed it to the Russian dealer (that I will keep anonymous so far) and he just could not do aything else than being extremely (and, I believe, sincerely) sorry. Dronino and Brahim, the same struggle... Welcome to Ensisheim anyhow (where we have at least 5 Russian dealers, not all of them being present in 2004 though). Cheers, Zelimir A 15:26 15/06/05 +0200, vous avez écrit : Hello Vincent, A nice slice (before). Although I don't know this dealer, I would be careful to blame him on this. Brahin is well known as a heavy ruster. If you don't store the material in a very, very dry environment (e.g. Excicator w/desiccant), noone can really guarantee for a lifelong integrity of such material (even if some do). However, I must admit that the slice (after) isn't in a very good shape indeed. When did you buy the slice? Best regards, Jörn Koblitz -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Auftrag von vincent stelluti Gesendet: Mittwoch, 15. Juni 2005 14:54 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim Hello Brahin Lovers, I bought a nice (before) Brahin in Ensisheim Show from Neith Investment Ltd. The dealer is from Russia I think. I paid 264 $ for 88 g. You can see two pictures, before and after here: http://www.colvir.net/prof/vincent.stelluti/ Somebody knows if Neith Investment is in Ensisheim the next weekend? I will go to Ensiheim ... Thanks Vincent __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Brahin co
Hi List, Jörn wrote: Alcohol is only good for pulling off liquid water from a specimen after it has been dipped in water. Even then, the specimen has to be dried in an oven to get the remaining humidity off. Here is a tip of an old timer chemist. To remove alcohol (ethanol) that was used in a preliminary step to remove water, pull the sample in di-ethyl ether first. Ethanol being miscible in ether, it will get readily admixed with it and easily removed through evaporation, along with (major) ether that is highly volatile. The last races of volatile ether are then be more readily removed through gentle heating. Back to Brahin, I totally agree with your comments about Esquel and Imilac. Perhaps we can add here Springwater as well (my very old slice once traded by...NIninger, is still fresh as new, with no protection, in humid Belgium...). After 2 bad experiences with Brahin, I opted the solution proposed by Martin. My epoxy-sealed Brahin is, since 1999, as new. Just sad not being able to fondle it... Marcin, thanks for your tips about Dronino. I may buy some oil from you soon. But my Dronino from Sergey Vassiliev however proved remarkably stable, still without protection, since now almost 3 years... This is as for some other meterites: it could depend on the exact place of the parent chunk where the slice was cut from. There could be stable and labile Droninos as there are poorly stable and even less poorly stable Brahins Best wishes, Zelimir Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] last minute Ensisheim news
Hello List, The latest info is that Alain Carion, although not present this year at the show, will provide us with a DVD report (26 minutes) on the recent (December 2004) joint French-Egyptian expedition in Southern Egypt lead by Philippe Paillou collaborators (among which Carion) to investigate the famous field involving many newly discovered meteoritic impact craters. This projection is scheduled as a preview on Sunday afternoon June 19. See also preliminary pictures on the web site of Anne Black. A full paper is ready to be published in the next issue of Meteorite For those who inquired about the participation of our friend Ivan Koutyrev, he just notified me that, because of some hard and tiring moments he recently enjoyed in Oman, he wil not show up this time but promises to come in 2006, with a lot of goodies. Nick Gessler, quenched that same week-end somewhere in Russia, is sorry to have to skip the events. He sent us 2 full packages of gold magnets, telescoping magnets, brass loupes, diamond brader cards...for sale. Probably in the consignment room or on a separate side table. We are now quasi full, with 2 tables (of the 56) still available though. Weather definitely predicted sunny and warm (28 to 30°C), ideal for many side activities... Welcome to those listees I progressively learn will be coming. The Friday party is looking more than promising. Good trip to all and best wishes to those who can't come this time. Cordially, Zelimir Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Extremly necessary informations about the Ensisheim Meteorite Fair 2005 on behalf of Zelimir
This is just a trial for a new contact to the List I wish to thank Christian for his great help in forwarding you the Ensisheim news. Please don't be angry if you receive the same message from Martin Altmann, Sabine Valange, Michel Franco, Régis Mtheau and myself (3 further attempts). I asked help to different horizons. At least now you have this old version, which is sufficient. The latest news is that our friend Erich (Haiderer) will be there (and happy) so there is potentially 4 more tables available. And the weather predictions for the big week-end seem to be a little more optimistic, thus we could possibly have warmer days/nights than initially expected...not bad for the night parties that are profiling... All my best wishes, Zelimir A 20:00 09/06/05 +0200, vous avez écrit : Hi all, sorry about the overwhelmed subject, but I think it is more than worth it : As our well known friend Zelimir Gabelica has troubles with posting to the list (which seems to be a more and more common problem - hi Art...no critics but a suggestion to check if viruses or worms cause this problem) I am happy to announce in behalf of Zelimir the latest announcement of the Meteorite Fair in Ensisheim 2005 (which you all know about !!) Here's what our friend Zelimir wants to tell you and us - and please read carefully - or ... much better...BE THERE : READ: Hello List, Here are some recent news about the forthcoming Ensisheim show. 1) Many of you asked questions about who will or will not be attending Ensisheim and the Friday party. So far, here is a tentative list of dealers and visitors that I know will be here: A) Dealers (with tables, in random order): T. Dehner, P. Thomas/L. Dejouy, R. Motheau, P.M. Pelé/partner, B.Fectay/C. Bidaut, M. Earnst (Direct Line Res.), M.Farmer/J. Strope, H. Koser, G. Pacer, S. Haberer, C. Stehlin, A. M. Hmani, U. Eger, J.L. Parodi/A. Guesslain, M. Franco Djellal, P. Kümmel, C. Boucher/F. Beroud, M. Cimala, M. Altmann, G. E. Moreau, S. Ralew, P. Marmet, J. Nauber, S. Vassiliev/M. Karl, S. Afanasiev, S. Skorniakov, A. Andreev, D. N. Kachalin, G. L. Tomelleri, S. M. Derecki, G. Donin, A. Kammou, R. El Horr, H. Bakadir, M. Garbaa, A. Junghans, Club Astro J. Bisey (bookshop table). Nick Gessler can't come but sent parcels full of material (basically detecting material) that will be available for sale on a separate table. Meteorites related for sale on the consignment table, from: G. Heinen, C. Anger , A. Seidel (?), D. Heinlein (?), O. Turone, S. Valange, TCU (Monnig coll. slices), 2 anonymous, Z. Gabelica, probably more Could not come this year: Alain Louis Carion, Nick Gessler (see above), A. Alexevitch, S. Wibaux, A. Weissler. Reserved then cancelled: Marcin Mackocki Still awaiting news from Erich Haiderer (seems does not reply mails...can someone help for contact ?) and from a couple of newcomers who are supposed to confirm. 6 tables are therefore potentially free and there is a (not always confirmed) waiting list. There still could be places for a couple of late birds B) Visitors: Among the few I know and who are currently reading the List posts, I note (in random order) : Guy Heinen, Christian Anger, Hanno Strufe, Dean Bessey, Anne Black, Alex Seidel, Herbert Raab (?), Albert Jambon, Hasnaa Chennaoui (Nom Com committee), Harold Stehlik, Bernhardt Rems, Dominique Padirac, Oscar Turone (??), Bernd Pauli (?), C. Heinlein, R. Haag (probable but... ? - you know Bob!). I for sure forgot many and there are even more from whom I did not hear so far. Every other visitor is of course free to identify himself, if appropriate. 2) In the consignment room the highlights this year are: - About a dozen of samples from TCU (with Monnig/D.New/A. Ehlmann labels). - Also anounced are (from an anonymous finder) several giant rounded brillant black tektites of first quality from Paracale (Phillippines), of more than 350-400 g, some quite over 500 g !). Anxious to see these, as possibly many of you. 3) Please those who wish to participate to the Friday party and interfere with most of the above people, confirm me (off list) your attending. We need an as accurate as possible number of participants so as to reserve the related number of meals. No need to tell me how many beers or special vintage bottles you expect to drinkI guess you even don't know yourself. 4) Weather prediction (in case we could rely on a 10 days ahead prediction...): mild (about 20-22°C), not the traditional heat wave, but no rain... But with these crazy recent weather variations, who can tell ? Don't blame me if we have snow...or 37°C (as in late April here..). I can also report refined prediction newt week. Welcome to everyone, from here, from over there or (even better), from down under ! (by the way, Joel Schiff, who almost came, is firmly expecting to make it naxt year). All my best wishes, Zelimir And a last word about my own presence : I will display the mainmass of the new Maigatari
[meteorite-list] a bunch of competitors in Ensisheim
Hi Michael, Mike, Hans, Bruno, List, As I already notified Mike, by no means NOBODY will ever be kicked off from Ensisheim show. This is just impossible to even conceive as far as I and my co-organizing friends are concerned. Gathering as many people to share a common passion is the fundamental reason of the creation of our show. Michael is more than right: everybody (dealers included) would for sure profit of such a fair competition. I second that the japanese behavior is very strange. In less than 10 days from now, you will be almost 50 dealers to gather and be kept close to each other for the best pleasure of every visitor and most certainly of each of you. So please Mike, Hans, Bruno...be happy and smile. We all have fun to offer that certainly each of us is willing to take and share. As Micheal would say: the more people willing to share fun, the more fun is generated.. More Ensisheim news to come. Cheers, Zelimir A 14:21 07/06/05 -0700, Michael Blood wrote: Hi Doug, It certainly looks like a clear cut example of relating to other dealers as competition instead of colleagues. It has been well known in the gas business and in the shoe business, and many other businesses, that if another dealer opens right next to you or across from you at an intersection business actually INCREASES. Even more so, if a third dealer comes in. The theory is that buyers then think of that area as the place to get gas or shoes - or meteorites. However, some dealers still relate to other dealers as competition, and some, obviously, then go about doing whatever it takes - regardless of the cost to the other dealer, to eliminate them. I believe it is referred to as territorial. The irony is it doesn't really benefit the one(s) being territorial - Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] looking for contact with Serge Afanasiev
Dear Listees, As some of you in the past, I don't contact Serge (Afanasiev) at his current mail (thus at: Comet Meteorite Shop [EMAIL PROTECTED] He wrote me 2 days ago but, if I reply, even a few words, I inevitably receive this warning: This message is larger than the current system limit or the recipient's mailbox is full... Can someone help me to contact Serge ? Thanks and best wishes, Zelimir Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] French meteorite
Martin, this piece of St Germain-du-Pinel is superb! We all here in France, are dreaming, along with Pierre-Marie, about such a trophy. Congratulations! Regarding the painted number, I also have in collection a sample (Augustinovka) with quite a similar N° also painted in white letters on a blue back. I pretty much remember that I don't know more about its origin but I'll check my data for next week. Best wishes, Zelimir Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] looking for contact with Serge Afanasiev
At least, this time the message was not returnedWait and see. Thanks Matteo! This little help demonstrates the (sometimes hardly expected) success of our list network! All the best to all, Zelimir A 16:55 25/05/05 +0200, vous avez écrit : use this [EMAIL PROTECTED] Matteo --- Zelimir Gabelica [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: Dear Listees, As some of you in the past, I don't contact Serge (Afanasiev) at his current mail (thus at: Comet Meteorite Shop [EMAIL PROTECTED] He wrote me 2 days ago but, if I reply, even a few words, I inevitably receive this warning: This message is larger than the current system limit or the recipient's mailbox is full... Can someone help me to contact Serge ? Thanks and best wishes, Zelimir Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.it Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140 MSN Messanger: spacerocks at hotmail.com EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ ___ Yahoo! Mail: gratis 1GB per i messaggi e allegati da 10MB http://mail.yahoo.it __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Is Amgala Official? / New Bulletin
Hi Michael, Marcin, List, You are completely right Michael. This is true not only in Botany but also in the recent meteorite history. A couple of years ago, I purchesed Turkmenbashi and Heze (names that are still on the original labels). Many of us probably still remember that these names now respectively correspond to the well (best) known meteorites Kunya Urgensh and Juancheng. There should be many other such examples, Canon Diablo included. But in 10 years from now, the former names will probably fade away forever. Probably the same will happen with Amgala. And here the decision of the Nom Com to keep Amgala as synonym is wise and helpful for collectors in future who will acquire some meteorite with its old label. I have in collection a meteorite with a very old Ward's label mentioning Dona Inez. From a rapid look at the pertinent literature I learned that I was the happy owned of a very old Vaca Muerta with a wonderful label So why not keeping the former Amgala labels, they could perhaps have some exotic meaning for the future generations. Oum Dreyga is just as fine as Juancheng. Hey Marcin, you'll get used to it soon. You can talk about Amgala but you should sooner or later re-write your labels with the new name, so as to fit the official decisions, and remain the serious and reliable dealer you are now. After all, be happy thet the Nom Com maintained Bensour, another name that was used everywhere, everytime, before the official classification NB: I am still intrigued by that 670 km wall... Best to all, Zelimir A 15:29 10/05/05 -0700, vous avez écrit : on 5/10/05 10:47 AM, Adam Hupe at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another note: I still think most will still use the name Amgala. This is because most collectors know it under this name. -- Hi Adam and all, I respectfully disagree - eventually, it will be known by its true name, though formerly called Amgala is likely to be around a while. The name approved by the Nomenclature Committee is the name. I can call Canyon Diablo Meteor Crater all I want, it will always be, however, Canyon Diablo. In fact, many meteorite collectors could call it Meteor Crater and it would still be Canyon Diablo and there would always be those that refuse to use the wrong nomenclature and respectable dealers would label it properly. I have seen this phenomenon in botany: Fucaria columnaris was known for many years as Idria columnaris, until, about two decades ago it was reclassified as a species of Fucaria. While to this day, one occasionally sees it advertised in exotic plant catalogs as Idria columnaris, it is Fucaria columnaris because it belongs to the genus Fucaria in the formal botanical Taxon. What has been called Amgala will be known as Oum Dreyga because it is being officially entered in the formal meteorite Taxon as Oum Dreyga. Best wishes, Michael -- You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are. -Herb Cohen -- If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Is Amgala Official? / New Bulletin
Hi Jeff, Jeff and List, Wow, a wall of 670 km long! Or is it 670 m ? The Amgala (for which, I presume the new name shuld be now Oum Dreyga ?) tkw, as mentioned on Ph. Thomas' site, is indeed about 17 kg. But I also know of some people (meteorite hunters) having recently (March-May 2005) brought more Amgala from Morocco. I saw several dozens of large complete stones and I could personally purchase, among others, an individual of 500+ grams. So that the tkw should be larger. Is anyone from the List able to achieve some more accurate compilation so as to better evaluate the real tkw ? I can also try from the above source. I'll keep in touch if I learn more. Best wishes, Zelimir A 10:18 10/05/05 -0400, vous avez écrit : We are just days away from releasing a preview version of the new bulletin. There will be several weeks during which you can make comments to the editor before publication. We are just days away from releasing a preview version of the new bulletin. There will be several weeks during which you can make comments to the editor before publication. Here's a pre-preview look at the entry pertaining to the name Amgala: Oum Dreyga 28°18'N, 13°6'W Gour Lafkah, Western Sahara Fell 200316 October, 02:00 UT Ordinary chondrite (H3-5) On 16 October 2003, Moroccan soldiers stationed in Western Sahara saw a meteorite falling on Gour Lafkah Mountains, south of Zbayra, about 21 km from Oum Dreyga. The meteorite fell near a 670 km long wall built in 1985, protected by antipersonnel mines, and guarded by soldiers. About 17kg were recovered. Stones from this fall were later brought to Moroccan dealers. Most of them have been collected after a rainfall and are thus slightly oxidized. However, some fragments have been picked up soon after the fall; these are very fresh. Fragments have been sold under the names Amgala and Gor Lefcah. Classification and mineralogy (M. Bourot-Denise, MNHNP): very fresh, with a black fusion crust; H3-5 breccia (Fa16.7± 6.0; 19.5 ± 0.8; Fs14.4 ± 4.4; 17.4 ± 1.3), S4, W0. Specimens: type specimen 20 g and two polished mounts, MNHNP; one 1 kg complete stone and 30 fragments totalling 862 g with Philippe Thomas. Jeff At 09:40 AM 5/10/2005, you wrote: G'day list, I'm curious if Amgala has been officially accepted yet and whether it will appear in the next bulletin. I know that one classification came back as H3.7-5 but I thought there may have been other labs working on this fall too? Cheers, Jeff Kuyken I.M.C.A. #3085 www.meteorites.com.au __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list At 09:40 AM 5/10/2005, you wrote: G'day list, I'm curious if Amgala has been officially accepted yet and whether it will appear in the next bulletin. I know that one classification came back as H3.7-5 but I thought there may have been other labs working on this fall too? Cheers, Jeff Kuyken I.M.C.A. #3085 www.meteorites.com.au __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ensisheim show info
Hi Mike, Glad you could envisage being again with us in Ensisheim this year! I planned to send the last updates by next Monday (May 9) when I am again back in France (I was away for a while, trips in South of France, New Zealand and now Belgium for the extended week-end). I can't send files as attachment from my Belgian home for now. Show is, as usually, sticked to the Ste Marie dates, thus planned for the week- end of June 17-19. If you are planning to come along with friends, please tell me now the number of persons and dates (kind of room, days... needed). I can then phone to La Couronne hotel for you now. For La Couronne, it is more than time (possibly fully booked ?) but we will try the best. At the worst, there are rooms available at the Niemerich but it is 5 km away. There might be some other alternatives as well. I'll keep in touch with you and send to the List the last updates by Monday. You and all of your friends are warmly welcome. Also let me know whether you need some table or if you prefer just browse around. Also, don't forget we have the consignment room where you could leave some pieces for sale. There are no fees and we give priority to overseas guests. Last, we have that big party scheduled on Friday (June 17) night. The most pertinent discussions about the past, present and future of meteorites will probably be debated there. You'll have the whole night for that (as our Russian guests use to say). Good luck! Friendly, Zelimir - Selon Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Does anyone have the complete details on the Ensisheim show this year? I need to get a hotel booked for me and some friends there for the show. It looks like I have some business to deal with in Europe and so a good excuse to attend that show and St Marie aux Mine show. Mike Farmer Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What's this wrong?
Jeff, all, I fully agree with Jason. This is a cluster of pyrite crystals, probably (partly) transformed (oxidyzed) into limonite (a partial pseudomorph), hence the color. Clusters like that one are common on our mineral collections. They can be sometimes showy and thus quite appreciated. But this is definitely a meteorwrong. Wishes, Zelimir A 17:40 24/03/05 +1100, vous avez écrit : G'day List, I had this photo sent to me which is obviously a meteor-wrong but does anyone know what type of mineral/rock this is? http://www.meteorites.com.au/images/pic1.jpg Thanks, Jeff __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Morland
to the culture of wheat. For wheat the listing ideas appeared directly in two forms, the lister drill and listing as a substitute for plowing. It probably inspired part a third procedure, as yet only partially developed, subsurface cultivation. The lister may be described as a double plow with a divided moldboard, splitting the slice and turning half each way. Clear Skies, Mark Bostick Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Questions the List may be able to help with.
Hello Adam, I can fairly agree with Bernd to identify your first unknown as Farmington (L5, br). However there can be another alternative. I have in collection (from TCU/Monnig) a complete slice of Springer (H6), 147 g, which closely resembles to the one you pictured, namely that also shows a similar black night sky full of stars (metallic patches) with a similar nice metallic vein (like a shooting star trace) crossing the etched surface. Just another possibility from only a visual evaluation and from memory (I have not my collection on hand here to check better). It is thus worth for what it is (and, I agree, beware of visual comparisons!) For the Cook collection and Harrissonville, I believe we should rely on Bernd who has an unvaluable set of (all kind of) data. Hope this can put a little forward your investigation. Interesting... All the best, Zelimir A 12:12 28/02/05 -0800, vous avez écrit : Dear List Members, I was wondering if somebody on this List may be able to help me with some questions. My first question is: Has anybody heard of the Cook Collection? I am asking because I purchased some specimens from Bob Haag and he lost track of this particular piece. He says it came from the Cook Collection and is not to be confused with the Australian Cook meteorite. He said this is a US piece that came from some place like Missouri or Kansas, he just can't recall. It appears to be a shock darkened, fresh chondrite with metal veining. This particular specimen weighs 373.8 grams and is a complete slice. Any information would be greatly appreciated! Full view of Cook meteorite: http://themeteoritesite.com/Cook-1.jpg Close-up of label: http://themeteoritesite.com/Cook-2.jpg My second question is in regards to the Harrisonville, Missouri L6 chondrite. I believe it was found as 14 separate specimens weighing in at 12.9 Kilos. I was wondering what the largest specimen weighs. I acquired the 801 gram specimen from Bob and was wondering main mass status? If this is not the main mass I may make it available to another well known and respected List member who expressed an interest in it. Thank you in advance for any help you can provide, Kind Regards, Adam Hupe The Hupe Collection Team LunarRock IMCA 2185 [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] What's in a name?
Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg! ...a name that would then probably be soon abbreviated as 15 g? .. I remember that the village with the longuest mane (world record) is somewhere in Whales. Obviously can't remember it (who can help ?) I just remember another remote place, a small village in South Iceland, where, years ago, we had to stop to repare a flat tire. It is Kirkjubaejärlklaustur. I fogot the meaning (it is a question of a farm yard behind some church ..) but perhaps our scandinavien friends can help? At least, there were nice black magnetic pebbles on the nearby beach. But at that time, I had a vague idea of what a meteorite can represent. And our magnets were just used to collect odd basaltic rocks...I bet we missed the first authentified Icelandic meteorite! Cheers, Zelimir A 10:03 21/02/05 -0500, vous avez écrit : I woud like to see a meteorite fall by the shores of: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg Located in Webster Ma, at the boundary of Ma, Connecticut and Rhode Island. Most popular( but probably not the most accurate) translation: You fish on your side, I fish on my side, and nobody fishes in the middle. -Charlie __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ya think your so smart, what's this?
Tom, Obviously the giraffe swallowed a couple of siderites before it was demised by the Chixculob (or alike) tsumani. This exotic example therefore is to learn us one more feature: some 65 MY ago (and perhaps still now ?), giraffes did not digest very readily sideritesA valuable observation for Science... Cheers, Zelimir A 08:24 25/01/05 -0700, vous avez écrit : a piece of a lithified giraffe, COOL! I always wanted one of them! But how do you explain the metal? At any rate, any one to buy a piece of a lithified giraffe? : ) Thanks, Tom peregrineflier IMCA 6168 http://www.frontiernet.net/~peregrineflier/Peregrineflier.htm Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ensisheim circular
Hello List, The latest (full) version of the circular for Ensisheim-2005 (in English) is ready. It can be soon consulted on the web site of Meteorite (www.meteor.co.nz). A few prints (folded circulars) will be available in Tucson as well. Those from the List who wish to receive the circular personally as attachment, please contact me off list. Note that regular dealers who attended the show last year or those who are on my mailing list, will automatically start to receive the circular as attachment in the forthcoming days, along with an official invitation to confirm (or cancel) their coming in 2005. Happy hunting in Tucson to all! Cordially, Zelimir Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 1977 and Warrenton
Hello Marcin, For Warrenton, go to the site of John Schooler; he still has a fragment of 0.526 grams for sale. You can also participate as absentee bidder at Al Lang's auction in Tucson (see his post sent earlier today). There is a 2 gram fragment proposed... Happy hunting, Zelimir A 00:47 11/01/05 +0100, vous avez écrit : Hello List Becouse I was born in 03.01.1977, I want to know if NWA1977 is for sale. Unfortunatelly I not find it in Meteorites A to Z or Met Bulletins so I dont know what kind of meteorite it is. Anyone know ? Hehe, Warrenton CO3.7 fall from 03.01.1877 :) anyone have for sale ? -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryt.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.PolandMET.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM +48(607)535 195 [ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] RE: MAPS (and connection test)
I sent sevaral posts since these last 3 days, with no apparent success. Moreover, since the last 48 hours, I don't receive any further post from the list which is, statistically speaking, at least disturbing. Here I try again the contact with another copy of one of my last posts (MAPS problem) to make sure I receive at least this copy through the list. Sorry if redundant. Best, Zelimir -- Hello Alex, Walter, Bernd, Christian, List, The same here in France. Last issue received: October 2004 (Neuschweinstein) and also the strange message as well! At least the mess and delay seems to be independent on the country and is random (normal for a mess...) I decided so far to wait and see until either I receive the missing issues or a reminder for 2005 subscription. Needless to say that I did subscribe for 2004, despite the strange message. I agree that some official contact (complain ?) should be made, e.g. in Tucson. You have all my support. I am affraid that our heavy teaching period over here in February is preventing me attending Tucson until my retirement... Cheers, Zelimir Selon Alexander Seidel [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Christian, Bernd, Walter, and list, the last magazine that I received was the October 2004 issue, as well. I did not receive the strange message that Bernd and Walter obviously have received, but nonetheless one must come to the conclusion that things seem to be completely out of order with the sales and subscription department of an otherwise high class journal. With a delay of magazine delivery lasting a quarter of a year (...which was even worse a few months ago) I am a bit hesitant in sending the 2005 subscription fees right at this moment. I will do as soon as they either catch up with a nominal timeline or at least make an official statement about their obvious problems, and the reasons for all that. In the meantime, from their side, I observe nothing but...silence, and this is far from making a customer-friendly professional job on the subscription side of an otherwise highly recommendable journal, which is the organ of a high class society. May be one of the people on this list with closer connections to the editor at the UoA in Tucson can comment on this a bit more... Alex Berlin/Germany Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] RE: New Lucerne discovery -- historical info first
in the subject), and too few adventure/discovery posts. Perhaps that's a consequence of the NWA flood -- when 90% of the meteorites are found by nameless people in nameless locations under unknown circumstances, a lot of the romance is gone. Meteorite hunting gets reduced to shopping. I'd much rather read about people's adventures in Park Forest, or Tagish Lake, or Oman or even new finds at old locations like Holbrook, Correo, Gold Basin, Franconia, etc. I give you the high ground on this one, Rob. And probably my heart is with you on your noble effort, but this is how I see the current situation - this noble effort is nothing more than casting pearls before swine - and all you end up with are pearls of wisdom covered in mud. One thing's for sure -- if we do nothing, this list will die. The passive approach isn't going to fix it. My intent was to try to breathe some life back into the list and perhaps inspire others to share similar stories. But when content messages are met with a chorus of crickets while bad-mouthing and off-topic subjects earn a symphony of responses, the current may already be too strong to swim upstream. Still, when I consider this list's longevity, I feel it deserves some sort of show of hands before effectively issuing a DNR and pulling the plug. Rob, you still have until Jan 11th to submit a print-only abstract of your Lucerne Valley findings to the Houston LPSC Meeting. You should share your findings with your peers. Perhaps I will. Ideally it shouldn't be an either-or situation -- I ought to feel comfortable doing both... Cheers, Rob __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad - NWA3118 With Chondrule Field!
Herbert, List, I did exactly the same, thus gave an Allende slice with an about 1+ cm diameter dark inclusion to a representative of the NH Museum in Paris about 3 years ago. He said the museum team would be happy to work more on. As far as I remember, I did not require a personal answer but mentioned that I will be happy to read one day their related publication. But we all know how long it can sometimes take for Science to get one small step forward... By the way, all my best wishes to all. Should this new year 2005 direct (at least) one small rock from space to everyone's backyard! Many trades in perspective! Zelimir A 12:53 04/01/05 +0100, vous avez écrit : I recently donated two pieces of Allende to the Natural History Museum in Vienna: One had a featureless dark inclusion looking similar to the one seen in Rob's NWA 3118 slice featured in the 2004 December 1 Rocks from Space Picture of the Day, and the other one had a inclusion looking silmilar to the chondrule fild in the Hupe's NWA3118 slice. Still, the researchers said that this is a dark inclusion, and did not call it CM or CO xenolith. Any- way, they are working on it either. Herbert Raab __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Classification tidbits consequences
Hello Bernd, List, Officially St. Mesmin (pronounce senmemèn) is a LL6 pmb. The mention pmb (polymict breccia) means (as far as I understood) that there are other lithologies, clasts...present but that LL6 is predominant (not clear though whether this implies that LL6 is the impacted body or the impactor). If one classifies St Mesmin as LL3-7, H6, would mean (to me) that this meteorite is composed of (at least ?) 3 lithologies, namely LL3, LL7 and H6 (see also below), possibly in equal proportion (otherwise a minor component is comprised in the term pmb that follows the type). Hutchinson (cited by Bernd) indicates that there are H6 dark fragments throughout the meteorite (but not their %). For example, a classification of the type: LL3-7,H6, or (to simplify): of the type LL6, H6 would be meaningful if both lithologies (LL6 and H6) are in equal proportion (here 50%), which is never the case, at least in one small portion of a meteorite. And probably this % is even less evident to compute throughout the whole meteorite. For this reason, I beleive the current classification (LL6 pmb) should be maintained and the other lithologies should not be explicited further, perhaps just mentioned in the side-description that currently follows the type. Here we indeed badly need Jeff's further comments. We have other such examples, the one quite well known coming to my mind being Dimmitt. This meteorite is composed of at least 4 (very!) different lithologies, namely H3, H4, LL5 and CM(!), if I remember well from the original abstract. The official classification, namely H4 rbr, is here sufficiently explicit, the term regolith breccia implying the other 3 minor types H3, LL5 and CM along with the H4 lithology that, I presume, is predominant. Back to St. Mesmin and Hutchinson, a classification as LL3-7, H6 would not mean that St. Mesmin contains type 3 material (only), in addition to the dominant LL6 lithology (Hutchinson, p 49) because I understand that LL3-7 means that there are LL3 AND LL7 clasts present (along with H6) but NOT the whole series from LL3 to LL7, including LL6. Actually, according to the official nomenclature, LL6 is not included in the LL3-7 mention. One should then rather write LL3/7, this meaning that all types from LL3 to LL7 are present. Please correct me if I misunderstood something. In any case, I agree with Bernd that perhaps Jeff Grossman could bring some more light on this not so simple problem of nomenclature. Best to all, Zelimir A 14:12 02/01/05 +, vous avez écrit : Classificational tidbits culled from: HUTCHISON R. (2004) Meteorites: A Petrologic, Chemical, and Isotopic Synthesis (Cambridge Planetary Science Series, pp. 506): Page 49: ... St. Mesmin is LL3-7, H6 (Dodd 1974). Occasional complexity, we believe, is the acceptable price of accuracy. also on page 49: ... St. Mesmin contains contains type 3 material in addition to the dominant LL6 lithology. Some slices additionally show a shocked dark fragment of H6 lithology that signals mixing between parent bodies. and on pages 51-52: It is proposed that the maximum amount of information should be incorporated into the classificatory shorthand for breccias - St. Mesmin for example, would be classed as LL3-7, H6. Any comments ? Jeff (Grossman) ? Best wishes, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Troilite inclusions
and started to decompose, the first kamacite and schreibersite to precipitate formed heterogeneously upon the available troilite and chromite * n u c l e i *. That is why so many troilite and chromite inclusions are wrapped in successive sheets of various minerals. Beautiful examples are to be found in, e.g., Canyon Diablo, Coahuila, Sikhote-Alin, Cape York, Chupaderos and Wiley. BUCHWALD V.F. (1975) Handbook of Iron Meteorites, Volume 1, p. 107. I also tried to find something in Cohen's trilogy. Same result: descriptive comments - on page 192, vol.1, you can read in 19th century German (!): Schwefeleisen tritt vorherrschend in knollenförmigen Massen von sehr wechselnder Größe auf; besonders charakteristisch sind rundliche bis eiförmige, auch wohl linsenförmige Partien. Sie erreichen nicht gerade selten Wallnussgrösse und sind aus Seeläsgen bis zu 9 cm, aus Magura sogar bis zu 13 cm gross beschrieben worden; aus Cosby's Creek isolirte Smith ein 200 g schweres Stück. In manchen Meteoreisen trifft man sie ziemlich häufig von fast idealer Kugelform. Sulfurous iron is mainly found as globular lumps differing considerably in size with roundish or egg-shaped but also lenticular parts being especially prominent. Sometimes they even reach walnut-size and have been described in Seeläsgen (diameter up to 9 cm), in Magura (even up to 13 cm); Smith separated/isolated a piece weighing 200 grams from Cosby's Creek. In some meteoric irons you even find them quite frequently displaying an almost ideal/perfect globular shape. COHEN E. (1894) Meteoritenkunde, Heft 1: Untersuchungsmethoden und Charakteristik der Gemengtheile (Schweizerbart'sche Verlagshandlung, Stuttgart). Best wishes, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Best chondules I have ever seen
Hello Mike, I am the lucky owner of 2 such pieces of NWA 1933, thus an end section of about 13 g (acquired in May 2003 at a mineral show, at a time when the meteorite was not yet classified) and a full slice of 20.5 g acquired 5 months later, elsewhere. Both are indeed so stunning and I have never seen such a beautiful chondrule pattern (perhaps comparable to Sahara 98175 (LL3.5, S4, W1) while perhaps only Ragland or (especially) Krymka may present a more stunning pattern). My price for the end section was about 17euro/gram and for the slice 15 euro/gram (friendly prices) and I believe they are fully worth it (subjective personal evaluation). The lucky winner of your slice got it for a barguain! By the way, is NWA 1933 an LL3.0 or is the second digit so far unknown (undetermined) ? Happy hunting, Zelimir A 17:13 03/01/05 -0700, vous avez écrit : http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrd=1item=6501889581 How about these chondrules? What do the list members think? Aren't these things of sheer beauty. Mike Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Troilite inclusions
Hello Bernd, Frank, Mike, List, Many thanks for the info about terrestrial troilite. Here (at work) I only had a small reference textbook on mineralogy. Home I have some 2000+ mineral books and (almost all) journals, among which those books you are mentioning. It may also well happen that I have some troilite specimen in my extended mineral collection. Sorry then for having perhaps asked an obvious question. This at least shows that our List works well and efficiently. Thank you all again for the pertinent documentation. The troilite problem remains interesting in many aspects. Cordially, Zelimir A 17:57 04/01/05 +, vous avez écrit : Zelimir wrote I fully agree. Indeed, after a rapid checking through some textbooks on hand, I did not find any terrestrial occurrence for troilite. Does anyone know for some ? Hi Zelmir here is what I found: In Handbook of Mineralogy 1990 by Anthony et. al. p. 538 Occurrence: Found in serpentine (Del Norte Co., California, USA); with Fe-Cu-Ni sulfides in a layered ultramafic intrusive (Sally Malay deposit, Australia); and as nodules in meteorites. Distribution: From the Alta mine, Del Norte Co., California, USA. In the Wannaway Fe-Ni-Cu deposit, and at the Sally Malay Cu-Ni deposit, 120 km north of Halls Creek, Western Australia. From Disco Island and the Ilimaussaq Intrusion, southern Greenland. In many meteorites. I see from Charon Cisneros list at Mineralogical Research she has it for sale from the Alta mine. Here is the url; http://www.minresco.com/syst/t.htm Mike -- Mike Jensen IMCA 4264 Bill Jensen IMCA 2359 Jensen Meteorites 16730 E Ada PL Aurora, CO 80017-3137 303-337-4361 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Santa Catharina
Hello Bernd, List, Regarding the 28 kg of Santa Catharina from Antwerp university, yes, I well know the team in Antwerp who rediscovered this old piece of iron that later proved to be Santa Catharina. One of the co-authors (Rik Dillen), relatively close friend, provided me in due time (1992) with further anecdotes related to this find and that were fully described in the reference Bernd is kindly providing. More, at the Antwerp show that year (1992 I believe), Rik proposed me for sale some chunks of this famous iron. I hardly started collecting meteorites at that time but felt there that I should take some of the fragments as they had a nice history behind. I did so and actually purchased the last 3 pieces left (all the others were rapidly sold out). I traded one of them since but keep carefully the last 2 metallic sections (with no crust though) that involve very fresh brillant metallic faces (not iron shale) with various cracks. Pieces weigh 58.3 and 26.3 grams. They definitely do not resembe the classical SC's. I do not have photos done but can do it in a near future (through a friend as I am still exploring the present market trends for a digital camera purchase). I can keep you informed. For those attending Ensisheim-2005 I can perhaps exhibit these 2 fragments as fitting the theme (they had - indirectly - some impact on men) but also as curiosities. We always wish that the exhibit presents something odd, unusual, with a funny side story behind Best, Zelimir A 20:24 03/01/05 +, vous avez écrit : Hi Marcin and List, Im looking for photos of the iron part from Santa Catharina Ataxite. Someone have specimen or photo? There are three photos you might want to look at: a) Cover photo: Meteorite Magazine, Feb 2000, Vol 6, No. 1. It's bw but fairly large and therefore shows some details. b) R. VAN TASSEL et al. (1992) An overlooked fragment of the Santa Catharina ataxite (Meteoritics 27-4, 1992, 467-469). This is an undocumented mass of 28 kg and resides at the State University Center of Antwerp, Belgium. Maybe Zélimir has a photo or would be able to get/take a close-up picture of this mass. The bw picture of a polished section in Meteoritics is rather smallish (7.5 x 4 cm only). c) HAAG ROBERT (2003) The Robert Haag Collection of Meteorites (Private Collection Edition, Tucson, Arizona): Color photograph on page 19 of Bob Haag's 232-gram endcut. Unfortunately Bob is holding the cut surface slightly downward so that you can't see very much of the cut, etched and polished surface of this ataxite. Maybe you want to send him a mail asking him to take a close-up picture of his 232-gram mass. Best wishes, Bernd To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Chiang Khan
Bernard, Martin, list, With all of our listees I also feel very sorry for Bernhard about the burglary. Bernhard, I wish you could rapidly overcome your angriness and re-positive again. Positiving is perhaps, in this case, considering that the good news is that the other 600 items were ignored by...ignorant burglars. But life is full of (also) nice surprises. No doubt Stefan (Ralew) will soon have some more beauties to propose you. I just remember his superb display table in Ensisheim and regret not having found time to look more closely at. Regarding Chiang Khan, I agree that these are very seldom seen as offer. There should be some nice pieces in collections or museums though. I was lucky to acquire a complete 100% crusted individual of 41 grams (probably from David New in the 1995's). Considering the mass existing in other collections (I remember Haag is mentioning having a considerable mass) I just wonder whether the TKW as mentioned in catalogs (also in Meteorites from A to Z), namely only 367 grams (total 31 pieces recovered), is correct? Did someone make a (more recent) compilation or have updated repositories ? Bernd ? Jörn ? Best wishes, Zelimir A 22:44 16/12/04 +0100, vous avez écrit : So it would be helpful, whenever someone from the list will get an offer for Chiang Khan or if he/she detects a piece of Chiang Khan on ebay to contact Bernhard, as Chiang Khan is a superrare locality, which nobody has for sale (only Oliver Alge and in his collection Bartoschewitz has some and perhaps Haag I heard) and I remember well to whome I sold specimens for Oliver. Thanks! Martin - Original Message - From: Bernhard Rems [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 10:24 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Burglary Hi, Just wanted to tell you that my flat has been robbed and devastated today. The thieves stole all my smaller electronical equipment, a collection of roman coins, a collection of golden coins from the Austrian Hungarian empire and other things of value. They completely ignored my meteorite collection with over 600 items, except for a small portion of meteorites that were laying on my table with the PDA and the iPod. These meteorites were those I purchased from Stefan Ralew a few days ago, and the nice Chiang Khan I got from Martin Altmann. I have no idea why they took these and nothing else. Bernhard PS: No insurance. Me idiot. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2005
Hello List, On the way back from a trip in Colombia (no meteorites there except the elusive and inaccessible Santa Rosa - and I guess any search would be tricky within the dense and humid jungle recovering most of the country), I am able to tell you more about the next Ensisheim-2005 show, this replying many of your requests/questions. The meeting will be held at the usual mythic place, the Regency Palace in Ensisheim on the week preceding Ste Marie show, namely Friday 17-Sunday June 19, 2005. The theme retained is Meteorites that caused damage to people, animals, objects... (elegant generic title to still be formulated - suggestions ?), with a consequent descriptive display of renowned specimens (Peekskill, Claxton and many others). The palace opens by Friday morning for table setting for dealers. By 18:00, the Palace will close and the enthroning ceremonies will start at 18:30 (with a couple of surprises) before we start a...show party! Organizing such a party during the recent Munich show by some list members was (and seems to have been) a wonderful and fully successful idea. With regrets not being able to participate, we wish to repeat in Ensisheim such a side-show by inviting all of you, dealers (and your own invited guests - we stay quite flexible here), to share a dinner (and related beverages...) all together, in the big tent, set up in the middle of the Regency square. The first drink (aperitif) is offered by the organizing committee (you might understand that we can't continue offering the drinks that will inevitably follow, without risking bankrupt...). This party is the opportunity for all of us to meet and chat and enjoy our hobby, hoping most of us will survive until the next morning activities. The show itself opens on Saturday June 18, 9:30, with, around 10:30, a more (in)formal opening ceremony by the officials with (very) short speaches and friendly drink served, within the main Hall, while the show will keep running. Sunday June 19: show non-stop, from 9:30 to 18:00 2 lectures (not 3) related to the theme are sceduled for Saturday afternoon (15:00) and Sunday morning (10:30) in a side room so as not to disturb the trading activities. We expect most of the last year dealers confirming their table reservation. As all tables were fully booked, I would appreciate receiving reservation requests from newcomers not too late in 2005, wishing to satisfy (almost) every demand. The table prices does not change. A detailed circular is now being drawn and will be distributed around, hopefully also during the next Tucson event. For table reservations and any further information, the best is to contact me in advance by mail before, for dealers, sending me a full confirmed registration later. Also sending me your wishes through the List can be informative for all the other list members who like to know who is wishing to participate (I hope the list moderator could accept such posts). The circular will involve a list of the 3 hotels available in and nearby Ensisheim, with phone contacts (they speak English and German). In 2006 a new modern hotel (40 rooms) will open next to the Palace in Ensisheim. Hoping that the Euro/$ ratio will not be too much unfavorable in 2005 for our overseas guests. According to preliminary requirements I already received from the US, we expect that this time the attendence will be more intercontinental (say: universal, as we never exclude any invader from space, especially when its arrival is unexpected...). I am ready to read any of your comments and will be happy to answer any further question or request. All the best to all of you and, in advance, vary happy Christmas and New Year holidays, Zelimir Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] French meteorite wanted !
Hi Pierre-Marie, An impressive want list indeed (I understand your ouf). Note that these meteorites are (probably) virtually not available to collectors. As also a lover of French meteorites I could have built exactly the same want list either (except a 12 g Hainaut (trade) and small (symbolic) chips of Kerilis, Lançon and St Mesmin that I happened, often by chance, to acquire). I believe these meteorites are sitting in some Frebch museums (and/or elsewhere as well ?) somewhere behind the curtain for ages, with (probably) no chances for sale/trade. I hope I am wrong and that the concerned curators are reading our posts. But I agree that if you never ask a question, for sure, you'll never get an answer. Perhaps some of us from the list can help you ? Good luck and if you succeed for some, let me know, I a ready to purchase/trade some of the remainings, if any... I am being answering your other concerns (about the next Ensisheim meeting) off list. I will then notify the list soon for the official anouncement of Ensisheim 2005 Best to all, Zelimir A 20:59 22/11/04 +0100, vous avez écrit : Hello to the List members, I'm missing the following rarities in my collection of french meteorites : Alais Aumières Beuste Caille Charsonville Chitenay Clohars Epinal Esnandes Favars Galapian Granès Hainaut Kerilis La Bécasse Lançon Le Pressoir Les Ormes Lucé Luponnas Marmande Mascombes Mezel Montlivault Mornans Quinçay Saint-Caprais-de-Quinsac Saint-Chinian Saint-Christophe-la-Chartreuse Sainte-Marguerite Saint-Germain-du-Pinel Saint-Mesmin Sainte-Rose Salles Sauguis Toulouse Villedieu Ouf ! (means in french list was long and I'm tired to have typed it ;-) Does anyone have some for sale (not big, just fragments or small slices) ? Thanks in advance, Pierre-Marie Pele www.meteor-center.com Vous manquez despace pour stocker vos mails ? Yahoo! Mail vous offre GRATUITEMENT 100 Mo ! Créez votre Yahoo! Mail sur http://fr.benefits.yahoo.com/ Le nouveau Yahoo! Messenger est arrivé ! Découvrez toutes les nouveautés pour dialoguer instantanément avec vos amis. A télécharger gratuitement sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Blaine and David
Hello Al, Mike, list, Nothing to add to the below statement as Al perfectly summarized who is Blaine. Although I like to diversify my purchase sources, many of my own meteorites came from David and Blaine as well. These 2 guys were (David) and are (Blaine) among the most reputable and reliable meteorite experts I have experienced. Their main goal was always to have their customers fully satisfied, sometimes at the expense of their profit. I use to deal with David since...1975 (minerals) and shifted my interests to meteorites thanks to him, after a couple of visits in his area (Washington state) in 1992. Unfortunately he is now out of business, but he is still active in many other (related or not) topics and I have the privilege to still share with him interesting mails at least once a week. You might know that he is one of the initiators of the new TCU meteorite exhibit along with his friend Art Ehlmann (museum curator). I haven't had the posibility to visit this said outstanding exhibit but, knowing David and his extended expertise in largely contributing to select the about 1,200 (!) most significant meteorites worth being shown (along with the unvaluable collection already gathered by Oscar Monnig for years and that was at TCU), I only could encourage everybody (including myself!) to visit one day this exhibit and just appreciate (see a report on that in a recent Meteorite issue). In 1993, I met Blaine at the Denver show and, after an interesting purchase of very valuable and extremely fairly priced meteorites at his booth there, I use to rely on him and deal with him on a regular and very satisfactory basis. This is being currently done through his reputed regular lists he uses to send us by regular mail. I believe that the creation of the new sales lists through Yahoo mail (thanks Mike for detailed info, it fairly succeeded to get included) will (continue to) provide to everyone a good opportunity to at least have a look at the items Blaine happens to find out here and there and propose for our collections for our outmost pleasure and satisfaction. I wish all the dealers from this list behave the fair and friendly way Blaine and David did, for the best mutual profit of both parties, thus you, dealers, in achieving sane business and us, collectors, to continue to fulfill our passions with significant and affordable samples. Perhaps this is one of the main reasons why this list was created ? Regards to all, Zelimir A 15:24 15/11/04 -0500, vous avez écrit : Hi Mike and list, Just a note to encourage list members to subscribe to Blaines new sells list. Blaine Reed has been a dealer for more years than most dealers and is a little along the lines of David New, except he is still in business. Blaine is a full time dealer and has great prices and a wide variety of items available and comes up with many new and neat hard to find items from time to time. He is also one of the most reputable and consciences dealers that I have ever known. He knows more about meteorites than any ten dealers, myself included and is always fun to talk to in this regards. He also isn't a high pressure salesmen and works with folks to see they get what they want and certainly stands behind what he sales. Hope to see folks on his list with his offerings. All my best to all! --AL Mitterling __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Tagounite L3
Hello Martin, list, Martin, on your site you are offering for sale a meteroite you are calling Tagounite L3. This reminds me I also purchased in due time the same meteorite (I should better say: a stone with the same name). So far, I believed this was a name invented by the nomads as Tagounite most of the time refers to the famous place (market) inMorocco where many of the NWA's are being purchased from nomads. My question: do you (or anybody else) know more (status, real type, where found, tkw...)about that famous Tagounite L3 ? Does it have now a NWA number and how is it known that it is an L3 ? I believe it is for sure not in any official nomenclature listing, nor probably on the waiting list for receiving a NWA number in future. It is just good to know that we are at least two of us having been once hooked by that name...But there could be more of us, as this meteorite is a beauty...Bernd ? Cheers, Zelimir A 15:26 17/10/04 +0200, vous avez écrit : Hola list! Finally I finished my new assortment list for sale and trade. So if you're interested in, please give me a note. I know, that for list members should be offered a discount, but if I compare my price level to that of the dealers and collectors on the famous dealer_list http://www.meteorite.com/dealer_list.htm , I could scream 30%, 40%, 60% off and I'm just to lazy to raise my prices on my list to the average niveau, only to do so. My apologies to the offerors there, to undercut them. I'm sending my lists privately to my collectors and won't put my assortment on my homepage. Anyway, the prices are not dirt cheap and finally I have no other choice: Here in Germany it's as difficult to sell meteorites as it never was before. Bad economical climate (but if I compare the situation to other countries, I have to say, that we Germans are somewhat lachrymose) and additionally the media created a kind of a movement, called avarice is cool. Consequence: The new collectors (those, who came to meteorites mainly via ebay within the last 3 years) come to me and tell me a priori in the face, that my prices are laughable high and try to haggle, although they have absolutely no idea about meteorite pricing and are neither able nor willing to compare the prices in the web. They have ebay-NWA prices in mind and can't understand, that f.e. a Lowicz is somewhat more expensive than a NWA 1882 or a Vaca Muerta. It's annoying to sit each day in front of the machine to excerpt all prices for the localities from all websites to demonstrate them, that my prices already are cheap. The other fraction, the meteorite veterans, are in some cases the opposite of delightful to me too. They still see the meteorite fan like me like a kind of a brother mason and expect, that we should give away the stuff at our own buying prices, everything else they take as a personal affront. But each day they're running to market to buy their vegetables and there they sense no dishonesty, if the seller asks multiple prices of those, which he paid each morning at the wholesale. There it's normal, there it's no rip-off. As told a typical German phenomenon. To the overseas collectors my recommendations as always: Don't be shy, it's not a big thing to order in Europe. In general it takes 7-10days until you'll have your specimens in your hands. Payment is not complicate. Paypal, checks, cash etc. I'll take back the specimen, If you won't be totally satisfied. No rip-off with the shipment costs. Sometimes I speak English and finally: Compare the prices! (In the last list, I did it already for you, but as nobody believed me - compare this time by your own). Now get the goodies, before I mutate to a Campo-Nantan-desert-crap-seller - that stuff is hefty overpaid here in Germany - but seriously: It wouldn't make fun to sell such things. Cheeers! Martin (who goes now to play with the cats, to be in a better mood soon). __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Which one came closest?
Closest to my Belgian home: Tourinnes-la-Grosse (L6), about 35 km. The next, Lesves (L5) is 50 km in the opposite direction. Little Belgium...smaller than Denmark, Lars. Closest to my Franch residence: Ensisheim, at 16 km Cheers, Zelimir A 00:35 15/10/04 -0400, vous avez écrit : Hello everyone, Since the List is very quiet tonight.. I was chatting with an ex-List member earlier today about the newest Colorado meteorite, probably an eucrite. And I noticed that the meteorite that fell (was found) closest to where I am from is also an eucrite: Bouvante. Do you know which meteorite came closest to your backyard? Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] IMCA #2356, www.IMCA.cc __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Soledade etch, check this out!
Dear Bernd, Martin, Mike, List, Nice etched slices of Soledade were proposed for sale by Hans Koser, at the last Ensisheim meeting. Apparently Bernd missed them but it is understandable as they were almost hidden in between other Hans' favorite irons, namemy numerous individuals, slices and etched spheres of Campo del Cielo, that overflew his table. I had the opportunity to purchase from him a complete etched slice of Soledade (about 75 grams) having a natural hole (about 2 cm in diameter) in its center (probably due to a missing troilite). After having read your recent posts about Soledade, I compared my slice to my Odessa slices I have in collection and obviously they are different. This is just a qualitative visual conclusion but I believe Bernd must be perfectly right with his arguments as well (below). I (almost) can ensure Matteo that my slice is definitely different from Odessa... Anyway, Soledade is a very interesting, so far stable meteorite, and I congratulate Mike for offering them at a very fair price that is perfectly in the range of what Hans asked for in Ensisheim. I do not wish to insist more for a purchase, just let me ensure you that I continue to like that slice very much. Incidently, a complete report on Ensisheim, mentioning Soledade, is to appear in the next issue of Meteorite. Best wishes to all, Zelimir --- A 20:25 11/10/04 +, vous avez écrit : Mike wrote: http://www.meteoritehunter.com/ Matteo emailed me and told me that he thinks this meteorite is Odessa! Does anyone who sees this think that this is Odessa? Bernd wrote: Although I must admit that this was also my first thought when I saw the first pics on Mike's sales page, there are two arguments against such an assumption: 1) Analysis data: Odessa: 7.25 % Ni, 7.24 % Ni, 8.73 %Ni, 7.2 % Ni 74.7 ppm. Ga, 285 ppm. Ge, 2.2 ppm. Ir Soledade: 6.7 % Ni, 98.5 ppm. Ga, 420 ppm. Ge, 3.90 ppm. Ir 2) ZUCOLOTTO M.E. (1999) Brazilian Meteorites (Meteorite!, Aug 1999, Vol. 5, No. 3, pp. 9-10): The inside color of Soledade was a little bit brighter than other siderites. Best regards, Bernd Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Tishomingo for sale
Hello Bernd, list Regarding Tishomingo, here is the copy of a post I sent earlier today to Marcin Cimala about Tishomingo. As there is still more interest in that wonderful meteorite, I decided to send this but without insisting on its sale (see below) as the piece is not mine. I believe the value as offered in Ensisheim ($ 9,000) well falls within the reasonable side of the price ranges, owing the quality of the piece. If someone is really interested, let me know off list and I can make contacts (and send pictures). Cheers, Zelimir -- Hello Marcin, We had indeed a nice complete slice of Tishomingo in the consignment room offered for sale during Ensisheim 2003. This piece did not sell (very few people had 9,000 euro cash...see below) and is presently with the owner whom I know well and, as far as I am informed, who is still willing to sell that slice. In case, here is its description as posted on the consignment label (and I can send you a picture, if interested): TISHOMINGO (Ni rich ataxite, anomalous, Oklahoma) Extraordinary full slice, 1734 g (!), crust all around, 37x18x5.5 mm, truly a unique meteorite composed of a pure Fe-Ni alloy containing 32.5 % Ni. The etch is dark as shown on the picture of an article about this meteorite recently published in Meteorite! vol. 6, 2000, (page 37 for picture). Stems from near the center the main mass of the largest stone found and has the same outline as the one pictured. About 260x175x6 mm (tortuous base of the rough triangle). Cut and prepared at TCU, where is the main mass (see article). The etch shows this strange pattern of martensite and taenite unknown in other ataxites. This slice was offered for sale to me (for a friend) by David New through his friend Art Ehlmann at TCU. They had the main mass and this mass is actually pictured on the first page of a 2000 issue of Meteorite. They apparently had cut this piece and the above described slice comes from the heart of this big mass. The purchase price, as negotiated in 2000, was of $ 6/gram (first tag price was $ 8/g), thus $ 10,400 at a time when the dollar was high versus euro. At Ensisheim 2003, the price proposed was euro 9,000 (with then euro quasi equal to dollar). So far I am not sending this post to the List. Actually, for you, this is more as information as I do not want to push any sale of a piece before the formal agreement of the owner. And I also understood that you do not want to buy such a slice so far... I also believe that you did see this slice in Ensisheim 2003, when you arrived for the first time... Best wishes, Zelimir A 16:17 20/09/04 +, vous avez écrit : .TISHOMINGO Someone remember this meteorite ? Blaine reed has a big slice in Denver .. and Eric Twelker has so many that he even has to sell them ;-) Here is the link: http://www.meteoritemarket.com/TSH.htm Best regards, Bernd To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] meteorwrong = hematite ?
Xavier, Bernd wrote: Xavier, if *you* want to be 100% sure they are (not) meteoritic, why not cut a window or have a window cut into your two stones. If there are FeNi patches (nickel-iron) and maybe chondrules or other tell-tale features, it would be proof beyond doubt. Just an idea from Germany. Best wishes, Bernd Bernd is completely right. Perhaps a quicker test would be you simply try first with a magnet. A hematite (and generally - not always though- a meteorwrong) is not attracted. As your pictures show stones that resemble ordinary chondrites (quasi always attracted), the magnet test will give you a rapid idea/guess. If you want to make sure the wrong is hematite (and not any other type of terrestrial stone), make a simple mark (streak) on a piece of rough china (porcelain). Hematite will give a red-brown mark (hence the name of the mineral). Most stones yield no mark or often some gray-black one. Note that some terrestrial minerals like magnetite (of course) do attract magnet In case of doubt, Bernd's advice is the next to follow An idea from France All the best Zelimir A 18:29 16/09/04 +0200, vous avez écrit : Well, at least it's clear, everybody seems to agree ! :) (for Michael : the four pics are the same rock) a chance I didn't pay much ! and a proof I have a lot to learn ! I have another one that I will show you, but I guess it will be the same then as it was the same vendor... :) So far I didn't want to break it but I guess I will crack it open just to make sure... and to begin to learn, what are the characteristics (on those pictures) identifying with no doubt as an hematite ? Thanks all for your quick answers ! Xavier The Earth's Memory wrote: Hello, 100% sure: hematite, that is bad luck ! Cheers from France, Bruno Carine La Memoire de la Terre Sarl The Earth's Memory LLC France www.meteorite.fr www.fossile.fr - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 5:56 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] New - Is this a meteorite ? Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Re: meteorwrong = hematite ?
Xavier, Hematite is NOT attracted by a magnet. And it very often shows a smooth dark red-brown to quasi black surface, often rounded when it is not in (black shiny) crystals . Rarely is the rounded surface rough. If metallic grains are visible, just follow Bernd's suggestion and make a window. If the window (best = polished) shows metallic patches throughout, the next attempt should be the classical test for nickel (dimethylglyoxime test, see e.g. Northon's book or various other general threatises) Good luck! Zelimir A 19:15 16/09/04 +0200, vous avez écrit : Hi again, Yes I will probably try to slice it but I still wonder how :) I was planning to just break it but if there's a doubt I'd prefer not :) It's true that I forgot to say that it is clearly attracted to magnet and as the micro picture shows there are (top of the picture) some brigh metalic grains visible (in the holes zone mainly but not only). I haven't tryed to calculate the density yet. Is an hematite never attracted by a magnet ? Cheers from Stuttgart... (just to mess things up, back in france tomorrow:) ) Xavier Zelimir Gabelica wrote: Xavier, Bernd wrote: Xavier, if *you* want to be 100% sure they are (not) meteoritic, why not cut a window or have a window cut into your two stones. If there are FeNi patches (nickel-iron) and maybe chondrules or other tell-tale features, it would be proof beyond doubt. Just an idea from Germany. Best wishes, Bernd Bernd is completely right. Perhaps a quicker test would be you simply try first with a magnet. A hematite (and generally - not always though- a meteorwrong) is not attracted. As your pictures show stones that resemble ordinary chondrites (quasi always attracted), the magnet test will give you a rapid idea/guess. If you want to make sure the wrong is hematite (and not any other type of terrestrial stone), make a simple mark (streak) on a piece of rough china (porcelain). Hematite will give a red-brown mark (hence the name of the mineral). Most stones yield no mark or often some gray-black one. Note that some terrestrial minerals like magnetite (of course) do attract magnet In case of doubt, Bernd's advice is the next to follow An idea from France All the best Zelimir A 18:29 16/09/04 +0200, vous avez écrit : Well, at least it's clear, everybody seems to agree ! :) (for Michael : the four pics are the same rock) a chance I didn't pay much ! and a proof I have a lot to learn ! I have another one that I will show you, but I guess it will be the same then as it was the same vendor... :) So far I didn't want to break it but I guess I will crack it open just to make sure... and to begin to learn, what are the characteristics (on those pictures) identifying with no doubt as an hematite ? Thanks all for your quick answers ! Xavier The Earth's Memory wrote: Hello, 100% sure: hematite, that is bad luck ! Cheers from France, Bruno Carine La Memoire de la Terre Sarl The Earth's Memory LLC France www.meteorite.fr www.fossile.fr - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 5:56 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] New - Is this a meteorite ? Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction list for tonight. Many large items over $1000 up for one cent.
Hi Mike, A question related to your E-bay offer just received (though I am not an E-bay buyer). You are listing Oum Rokba. I purchased that one sometimes in the past, from Blaine Reed (incidently with an accurate descriptive label). I thought the name was officially recognized and the meteorite well documented but never found any official description in the Met. Bulls. later on. Blaine's label gives about about the same description as yours on E-Bay. I contacted Bleine recently for more info but he was not able to tell more. Could you (or anyone) tell me whether Oum Rokba is an official name and where is it described ? Or should that one rather belong to the vast NWA group (if so, which N° ?) Many thanks and best wishes, Zelimir A 08:31 14/09/04 -0700, vous avez écrit : Subject: Auction list for tonight. Many large items over $1000 up for one cent. Hi everyone, I have loaded alot of meteorites on eBay one cent auctions. They all end tonight. Take a look, grab some end of summer deals for a real bargain. http://members.ebay.com/ws2/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPageuserid=meteoritehunters http://members.ebay.com/ws2/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPageuserid=meteorite-hunter thanks Mike Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] AMAZING NEW METEORITE -FELL ON HOUSE!!!
Dear John, I was very impressed upon reading your message describing the amazing new meteorite that hit a house in Venezuela, because... I was just in Venezuela from Sept 1 to 11 (incidently with a really smooth return flight on this magic date, though some remanent turbulences from our friend Ivan the hurricane who hit us last Wednesday there over). I thought that, by bad luck, I missed this new house crasher by a couple of days...until I looked at the link, showing this nice agate-like egg/pebble! Well, it turned that, along with some lectures on advanced materials I had to deliver at a local sumposium in Caracas, the organizers gave me also a wild card for talking about some more exotic materials. I logically choosed the topic related to our beloved hobby, namely extraterrestrial materials. About 80 local people were therefore suddenly aware that meteorites do exist and now that John sent the post, I wonder whether we will suddenly be flooded from various infos coming from Venezuela and describing some sudden finds in the backyards or related local fall observations. Actually, as my speaking time was restricted (those kind of lectures require extended talks, questions included), I just skipped the last part related to... meteorite fakes and the corresponding warnings... I however doubt your post is really related to my lecture but what a coincidence! I keep you informed if I hear for more exotic falls or strange finds in the forthcoming days from there. So far, Venezuela, a large country, was very quiet, with only 3 meteorites reported. Maybe the Valera cow story, that I did not miss to report, excited some imaginations... Best to all, Zelimir A 09:59 14/09/04 -0700, vous avez écrit : A local newpaper in Venezuela has scooped CNN, NBC and CBS and broken the big story about an amazing new meteorite find (see below). We are sure that this will generate intense scientific interest as well as intense competition amongst the list dealers as they vie to purchase this cosmic beauty. Below is a tranlation of this ground breaking article. Into the hands of carvajalense family meteorite that fell 13 years ago and deserves to be studied. It does about 13 years, as a result of a rain of fleeting stars, phenomenon and astronomical spectacle that every year happens generally once, fell in one of the houses of the parish Glad Field, especially in the house of the Suárez family, of that populated community a small meteorite that could well solve many questions on asteroids and until the origin of the life. The grandmother of the young person David Suárez, witnessed the fall that night, a strange luminous object in the patio of her residence and decided to approach what was a small rock, of about 12 centimeters in length by seven of wide, still warms up by effect of the strong atmospheric effect. She kept the small stone, characterized to have oval and contouring form with beautiful lines brown, yellow color and amber, as if one was beautiful Eggs of Passover made by the Russians like inestimables jewels, like a memory, without knowledge that nothing less had in its hands than many centuries of studies of the cosmos and perhaps of its beginning. After the death of his grandmother, the young person David Suárez decides to take it to science, nevertheless many students of the matter in that time, which they wanted was to cut the rock and to destroy it to study it without contributing nothing in return, in addition without recognizing the inestimable value that represents for science. Suárez, makes the call to the true investigators of the origin of the life and the sidereal space, so that they communicate with him through telephones 2442260 and 2441804. To view this incredible NEW Meteorite click on the link below. http://www.diarioeltiempo.com.ve/secciones/secciones.php?num=47771codigo=nactllve=dos __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Re: picture Biot's book
Hello Mauro, List, Many thanks for the picture! I am quasi sure that the copy of the Report I have and that I mentioned a few days ago to Pierre-Marie is the photocopy of that book... At least, the first page and the map are exactly the same. The book, as pictured, seems not being so thick. If it has in total 47 pages, that's it.. Can somebody tell me how many pages contains that book? Thanks and best wishes, Zelimir A 20:50 28/07/04 +0200, vous avez écrit : Hello Zelimir, I'm sending you in attach the picture Biot's book that I took at Mineralientage 2002 in Munich. Best regards!! Mauro Il mer, 2004-07-28 alle 09:35, Zelimir Gabelica ha scritto: Hello Mauro, Thank you for the copyright release. However I did not receive any such picture, just heard that Pierre-Marie did. Though, I'll be glad if you can send me the link as well. Many thanks and best wishes for your (our) passion Zelimir A 20:18 27/07/04 +0200, vous avez écrit : Hello Pierre-Marie and Zelimir, no problem for use the picture (with the copyright notice) that I sent. All the best! Mauro Il lun, 2004-07-26 alle 23:04, Pierre-Marie PELE ha scritto: Hello Mauro, That's exactly what I'm searching for. I hope to buy one sooner or later. Anyway, thanks a lot. By the way, I'm writing an enormous (the biggest one) book about french meteorites. May I use the picture you sent to me with your name as copyright notice ? Regards, Pierre-Marie Pelé Hello Pierre, the book is really impossible to find, but I'm sending you a picture of it that I took at Mineralientage 2002 in Munich. All the best!!! Mauro Il lun, 2004-07-26 alle 11:04, Pierre-Marie PELE ha scritto: Hello to the List. As a collector of french meteorites, I'm searching for old meteorite books related to the french meteorite falls. I'm especially looking for the J.B. Biot book (original edition) about the 1803 L'Aigle fall. Does anyone have one for sale or a contact to get one ? Thanks a lot. Pierre-Marie Pele (Meteor-Center) -- Faites un voeu et puis Voila ! www.voila.fr __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Mauro Ianeselli - ITALY International Meteorite Collectors Association: IMCA #2122 http://www.imca.cc Associazione Astrofili Trentini: http://www.astrofilitrentini.it [ L'Aigle.jpg (141.1 Ko) ] -- Faites un voeu et puis Voila ! www.voila.fr -- Mauro Ianeselli - ITALY International Meteorite Collectors Association: IMCA #2122 http://www.imca.cc Associazione Astrofili Trentini: http://www.astrofilitrentini.it Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 -- Mauro Ianeselli - ITALY International Meteorite Collectors Association: IMCA #2122 http://www.imca.cc Associazione Astrofili Trentini: http://www.astrofilitrentini.it Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] BIOT
Hello List, Here (down) is the copy a message I was trying to send (without success) during this afternoon. Trying again...Hope it works now. In the meantime, I well read (through the list) more replies to Pierre-Marie (Eric, Bernd). So if I can help... Cheers, Zelimir - Hi Pierre-Marie, Jörn, Steve, List, I have a photocopy of the following document: Relation d'un voyage fait dans le Département de l'Orne, pour constater la réalité d'un météore observé à l'Aigle le 6 floréal an 11 Par J.-B. BIOT (lu à la classe des Sciences mathématiques et physiques de l'Institut National, le 29 messidor an 11) Document Imprimé par ordre de l'Institut, Paris, Baudouin, imprimeur de l'Institut National, Thermidor, An XI... pp 3-43, including a map entitled carte des lieux sur lesquels a éclaté le météore du 6 floréal an XI aux environs de l'Aigle, Département de l'Orne (the same map that is very often reprinted in many modern treatises). The text (beginning on p 5) is in old French and it is Biot who is speaking, thus reporting in full detail his investigations on the field, a few days after the famous fall was observed... From the format and the way it was printed, this could well be a copy of an article (= report) that appeared in an old issue of Annales de Physique . This is easy to check and I can do it readily but do not have my data on hand by now. It is obviously a detailed report written by Biot and read (as it was the use) by a reporter to the Academy. In other words, this is not a book as such but the detailed report is probably very complete. This copy comes from a local library at l'Aigle and was kindly provided to me by a library responsible, through a local friend. However, if it comes from The Annales, I guess it can be also found easily alsewhere, possibly also in the US. In case, the Annales de Physiques are available at the library of my university here. I don't know if this could help you Pierre-Marie (or anyone else) but I will be happy to provide you of a copy of my copy in due time, in case you need this. Let me know off list and we can make arrangements. Best wishes, Zelimir Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2004
Hi Moni, Nick, Bernd, List, Nick is presently in Paris and then he will attend Ste Marie aux Mines show. I am not sure he could read your post in the meantime. I will meet him again at Ste Marie next Thursday and I can forward him your message. Nick, Norbert Classen, Sabine Valange and myself are planning to write a full report on the Ensisheim meeting for a forthcoming issue of Meteorite so I know Nick has taken original notes for his part of a report. Therefore, I can ask him on Thursday to send to the List soon his overseas feelings as a preliminary, original and fresh report. Bernd, thanks for your prompt preliminary and very informative (even for me) report! Best wishes, Zelimir A 03:55 22/06/04 -0700, vous avez écrit : Hi Bernd, Nick and list, Bernd, what a wonderful trip for you! Thanks for the report! I am just wondering, Nick will you also write something up for us American list members who stayed behind? That would be very much appreciated by myself and I am sure by others too. :-) Sternengruss, Moni Bernd wrote: There is so much more I could tell you but this post is already too lengthy. What a pity there were no American list members this year. Oops, I forgot! I think Nick Gessler was there but somehow I did not find a moment to talk to him or to at least say hello. Maybe next time! _ MSN Movies - Trailers, showtimes, DVD's, and the latest news from Hollywood! http://movies.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200509ave/direct/01/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Some old things. Ad
Hello Anne, List, Anne, how sure are you that the 2 SAHARA x meteorites that are on your list are from Algeria ? So far, to my best knowledge, the Labenne's did not want to disclose the actual country of their finds. Was that done recently ? If it is so (I may have missed that), are the other Sahara's also from Algeria or...? Thanks for info Best wishes, Zelimir A 01:33 16/06/04 -0400, vous avez écrit : Hello everybody, I thought I would let you know that I just finished adding a bunch of old things to my site. Nothing new, just old things like Luotolax, La Criolla, Murchison, Happy Canyon, Nakhla. You can find them on the consignement page, at the bottom, as an Addendum: http://www.impactika.com/Consignement.htm And I plan on adding a few more old pieces in the near future. Do let me know if you like them. Thanks. Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] IMCA #2356, www.IMCA.cc __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] HELP:Seeking email address for Joel Schifftorenew subscription for Meteorite
Mark, Jim, To contact Joel, I have tried yesterday night at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and I got a prompt answer. So far I also don't know exactly which of the 3 mail addresses should be used but I know the above does work Good luck, Zelimir A 12:46 15/06/04 +0100, vous avez écrit : Actually Jim, There appears to be 2 email addresses listed for Joel (or it may have changed) I would Try [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mark -Original Message- From: mark ford Sent: 15 June 2004 12:19 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] HELP:Seeking email address for Joel Schifftorenew subscription for Meteorite Hey Jim, Next time you have a meteorite dream try to get the Lat Long.. :) (I remember having a meteor dream around the time of Park Forest, except in my dream they fell into the sea!) Joels email at Meteorite Magazine : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mark -Original Message- From: jim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 15 June 2004 11:05 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] HELP:Seeking email address for Joel Schiff torenew subscription for Meteorite Greetings list members I'm hoping to get Joels email address to speak with him about renewing subscription to Meteorite magazine.There was no answer from him to my last email and I have since lost the address I did have for him.Thanks in advance Great looking stone down under.Oh what I'd give to have a large rock tumble through my roof. Anybody else enjoying the Cassini pics of Phoebe half as much as I am?WOW!!I imagine myself walking about on the surface investigating all those lovely craters and picking up meteorites by the handful.Have had some exceptional meteorite dreams the past couple of weeks,including one where they were raining down on me and I watched one huge one crush a car.To sleep perchance to dream Go raibh maith agat Jim Brady __ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] An announcement from Joel Schiff
Hello Joel, John is just right. This year (and probably since a very long time), you are blessed by the vast Space and the Skies. Your every day life continues to be very closely linked to some event originating form somewhere between Mars and Jupiter... The meteorite that fell almost in your backyard (or dining room...) was actually some kind of sensation today around here (in the antipodes of NZ!), as reported and debated by dozens of news and (sometimes very local) papers. I hope you could at least expertize the body and possibly get some fragment, if not being able to buy the whole piece. If so, what a better place for this space invader than the desk of the editor of Meteorite! We are all lasting to read your next detailed report in our favorite Journal. Now, the idea of John and Anne wishing you could do Tucson next year, reminds me to renew my invitation for Ensisheim-2005 (already scheduled for June 17-19). You know that every year, we use to emphasize a specific theme and exhibit the meteorites that are related to the theme. The NZ fall actually gave me the idea to feature, for 2005, that simple theme: meteorites that made some damage upon their arival on earth. Damage to objects (cars, mail-boxes, houses, ROOFS...!) or to animals (like Macau, Valera or even Nakhla - even if the dog story is possibly pure fantasy) or even to human beings... A great theme by no means...that I now firmly retain for sure and anounce next Friday when the 2004 edition starts If you could show up in 2005 with at least a fragment of the new bolide, it could be the queen of the show at our special exhibit. Keep us in touch! Best wishes, Zelimir A 00:58 14/06/04 -0400, vous avez écrit : In a message dated 6/13/2004 10:53:05 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: At 07:27 PM 6/13/2004, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This has really been quite a year for Joel. A milestone Birthday. His daugther's wedding. And now a meteorite falls practically in his backyard! What will he do next year??? :-) Maybe come to the next Tucson Show? JKG Great idea! But he will have to bring the new meteorite with him. Maybe if we all ask really nice... Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] IMCA #2356, www.IMCA.cc __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Warning About Libyan Desert Glass Artifacts
Hi Keith, Frank, List, Currently, natural LDG's (i.e. not worked by prehistoric men into tools...) are found in Egypt (I am tempted to say exclusively although one should be cautious and perhaps rather say mostly). On the other hand, I know of some prehistoric tools made out of LDG that were offered for sale by, let's say Sahara desert nomads (wherever they come) out of Egypt as well, in this case in a souk (market) somewhere in Lybia. Assuming these objects were initially found in Egypt, nobody knows when they were found and/or exported from Egypt (pre or after 1970) by the nomads, how long they awaited in the souk for an purchaser, etc. These nomads have no certifying documents and I bet they would never think to ever get one, presumably because they belong to the vast Sahara, whatever their country of origin and independently of the country where the LDG's stem from. As a conclusion, probably no one would be able to ever prove when such objects were acrried out of Egypt (if Egypt) and where they could actually come from. I believe if some court or law would argue about the legal standing of these LDG objects, they (and not the buyer) should bring the proof they were exported from Egypt pre 1970 ? The general question is thus: what is really illegal? At least I conclude from the debate that natural LDG's can continue to be exported even from Egypt. I hope I am correct. Best wishes, Zelimir A 09:19 08/06/04 -0700, vous avez écrit : Hello Keith, I understand what you are saying about the Libyan Desert Glass artifacts imported (stolen) from Egypt. I would guess though that prehistoric man might have carried artifacts throughout the Sahara. So if LDG artifacts were found and sold in Libya or Morocco and exported, they would be expected to be legally obtained? Just wondering. Curiously yours, Frank - Original Message - It is obvious from the complexity of antiquities laws that the above discussion is only a lay person's interpretation that he has been told. Therefore, it should not be used to make any judgments about the legal standing of or for specific situations. It is just a warning that people who own or trade in Egyptian artifacts composed of Libyan Desert Glass might want to talk with a lawyer about their legal standing. People, who buy artifacts composed of Libyan Desert Glass might insist on obtaining a valid legal document certifying that the artifact that they are buying was legally exported to cover themselves in terms of legal liabilities. . Maybe the International Meteorite Collectors Association might want to hire a lawyer to look into this matter and publish a report on the legal status of Egyptian artifacts composed of Libyan Desert Glass. . __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Are you a dealer at Ensisheim 2004?
Dear Eric, List You might know that the organizing committee of Ensisheim Meteorite Show is placing every year a special room at anyone's disposal for bringing material for sale on a consignment basis. I am currently responsible, along with the specimens owner(s), of such sales/trades. This is mostly valid for meteorites/tektites/books/CD... that some people want to offer for sale but are not able, for various reasons, to resreve a table for doing so. This is a free service (with no profit for the organizers) we are basically offering : 1) to members of the organizing staff who have no possibilities to be quenched permanently at some table, and 2 to people coming from far away and can only bring limited quantities of meteorites for their trades. The consignement room set up is indirectly a side-advertisement for our show and this activity appears to be appreciated by all the attendees. Everybody is therefore welcome to bring along some specimens, preferably not too common, to put an appropriate tag with name, shortt data and a competitive price (it is of use that such items sell well and are therefore very reasonably priced) and is required to be present for discussions and/or transactions. If you can not come but still wish to offer unusual specimens, let me know and I can be responsible (at your risks) of their sale. I am encouraging many of you to fulfill the above conditions and to require putting a few specimens for sale in the consignment room. Eric, your specific request to take along your DVD's is a perfect example that fits the above conditions. If you don't find anyone to bring them in Ensisheim and care of their sale, just feel free to send them to me and I'll organize their specific sale. Incidently, we will have this year a special table (next to the consignment room) for book and CD's/DVD's sale and your material can be very easily included there. If this solution is of interest to you, please contact me off list. So far, we have today 12 different consigners from various countries wishing to participate to that activity and I am able to send a short list of items they would offer for sale, if appropriate (to the List or specifically off list, on request), at least for items for which I already have data (names, weights, possibly prices). Photos not possible by now. The 51 tables of the show are quasi fully reserved. Some are still on hold and, with some possible and inevitable last minute cancellations, I could perhaps accept further demands, on a waiting list basis. Contact me as soon as you can. Wishing to meet most of you in Ensisheim in one Month from now, Cordially, Zelimir A 20:19 17/05/04 +0100, vous avez écrit : Are you a dealer having a stand at Ensisheim 2004? I am looking for someone to take some of my Meteors and Meteorites DVD's on a sale or return basis to sell at the show. See the current May issue of Meteorite magazine for a review of the DVD. If you are interested please email me direct for further details. -- Eric Hutton __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] comments from Bernd (blue hibonite)
Hello Michael, Eric, Terry... (Bernd ?) Just a comment about the Ti3+-containing blue hibonite. Ti3+ is paramagnetic and currently gives a characteristic EPR (Electron Paramagnetic Resonance) signal, especially if it is diluted as solid solution in another crystalline phase such as hibonite (I suppose Ti3+ partly replaces Al3+ in the hibonite structure). Ti3+ is indeed very rarely stabilized on Earth where it should readily oxidize to Ti4+, found in most of the minerals (Ti4+ is diamagnetic and thus not active in EPR). Conversely, Ti3+ is very likely to occur in space or on asteroids that do not have an oxidative atmosphere (vacuum is a reducing medium). This being, running an EPR spectrum could perhaps help definitely identifying the presence of blue hibonite in Terry's CV3's, provided Ti3+ did not totally oxidize to Ti4+ during the terrestrial life of the meteorite (possibly it should not if we deal with a real solid solution). To run such a spectrum, a few mg of folid is quite enough, as ppm Ti3+ concentrations are enough for a signal to be recorded (the more diluted the system, the sharpest the signal). During my past research I used to run such spectra regularly and could get quite familiar in interpreting Ti3+ EPR signals. Presently, I don't have any EPR equipment in my new lab but if some investigation is needed, I can contact some friend scientist involved in EPR, ask him to run some spectra on your powder and this perhaps would help telling more about these blue inclusions in the CV3. Just a suggestion. Tell me if there is interest. Best wishes, Zelimir At 17:33 26/02/04 -0800, you wrote: Hi all, Bernd sent me this commentary today and I asked his permission to post it to the list: Today E. Olson posted some- thing about blueish hibonite crystals in Terry Boswell's CV3's and so I sent a private mail to Eric informing him that blueish hibonite (CaAl12O19) components are commonly found in CM2's but that they are rare in the Allende CV3 chondrite. I also added that, in CM chondrites like Murchison, Ti-bearing hibonite is blue, while it is tan or orange in Allende. The color difference is due to the presence of trivalent titanium (Ti3+) in blue hibonite whereas orange hibonite does not contain Ti3+. So if Terry's CV3s really contain b l u e hibonites, this would be a rare occurrence - Vigarano being the only exception. PS: Bernd is considering returning to the list. He left in protest of continual negative postings. If we want him back - especially for good, we will have to abandon past practices of attacking one another on the list. Best wishes, Michael ** Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Groupe Sécurité et Ecologie Chimiques (GSEC) - ENSCMu 3, rue A. Werner F-68093 MULHOUSE Cedex, FRANCE Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 FAX: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT; Italian mafia and the mail?
I use to send from (and receive in) Belgium and France to (from) USA, parcels containing geological samples (minerals, meteorites, impactites...) since more than 25 years. It never took more than about ONE week (in agreement to what said Anne). I use small parcels (less than 1 kg) as this is cheaper, but larger are as fast, just a little more expensive. I send simply by air mail, NEVER insured (this considerably slows down the delivery!) and (very important!) put on the green tag for customs: geological or rock samples (for meteorites, tektites, impactites..) or minearlogical samples (for crystallized minerals) for study (or, sometimes: as gift), with no commercial value . Parcels are never open, even if they are sent to my private home, not to my research lab. I reckon that from France or Belgium to...Italy, it may take sometimes (but not so often) longer... Zelimir At 21:50 26/02/04 EST, you wrote: In a message dated 2/26/2004 7:41:27 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I sent a package to Belgium and it took almost 2 months to get to the buyer. You should have seen all the threats and nasty- grams I got from that one!! And this was the second one I sent. Rosie I send packages to France, Germany, Austria, Switzerland very often. I always send them by Global Priority Mail and they take an average of one week to get there. And no problem (Except for the one that made a detour thru Australia before going to Austria! Not everybody knows the difference, apparently!!! ) :-) Anne M. Black www. IMPACTIKA.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] IMCA #2356 HTMLFONT FACE=arial,helveticaFONT SIZE=2 PTSIZE=10In a message dated 2/26/2004 7:41:27 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: BR BR BRBLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style=BORDER-LEFT: #ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5pxI sent a package to Belgium and it took almost 2 months to get to the buyer. BRYou should have seen all the threats and nasty- grams I got from that one!! BRAnd this was the second one I sent. BR BRRosie BR/FONTFONT COLOR=#00 BACK=#ff style=BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ff SIZE=3 PTSIZE=12 FAMILY=SANSSERIF FACE=Arial LANG=0/BLOCKQUOTE BR/FONTFONT COLOR=#00 BACK=#ff style=BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ff SIZE=2 PTSIZE=10 FAMILY=SANSSERIF FACE=Arial LANG=0 BRI send packages to France, Germany, Austria, Switzerland very often. BRI always send them by Global Priority Mail and they take an average of one week to get there. And no problem (Except for the one that made a detour thru Australia before going to Austria! nbsp;Not everybody knows the difference, apparently!!! ) nbsp;:-) BR BRAnne M. Black BRwww. IMPACTIKA.com BR[EMAIL PROTECTED] BRIMCA nbsp;#2356/FONT/HTML ** Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Groupe Sécurité et Ecologie Chimiques (GSEC) - ENSCMu 3, rue A. Werner F-68093 MULHOUSE Cedex, FRANCE Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 FAX: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Chinguetti mystery - the one that got away
Hello Lars, I presume there should exist various documents about Chinguetti here and there, mostly probably summarized (and translated in English) in current textbooks or web sites dealing with meteorites in general (I can't check right now). However, the best document is a booklet written (in French) by the well known meteorite specialist Brigitte Zanda and (the late) naturalist and edventurer Theodore Monod (both from NH Museum in Paris). The title is Le Fer de Dieu (God's Iron) and it deals with their joint expedition on the site organized some 12 years ago (or so, unfortunately I don't have now this book on hand by now). All is said and fully documented about the real history and the legend behind Chinguetti. The conclusion is that the legendary iron mountain is indeed a huge block of hematite. But Chinguetti meteorite (mesosiderite) also exists (current data available in many common documents or tables) and was found not so far from the iron mountain real location, to which it is apparently not at all related. For those wishing to know more detail on this book, I can probably provide the E-mail address of Brigitte off list. I am confident she should most probably be happy to help more. Best wishes, Zelimir At 19:16 24/02/04 +0100, you wrote: Hi all I just taped a documentary film about the Chinguetti meteorite from the national geographic chanal. I heart that reasently the mystery was solved when it turned out to be a giant block of hematite. Anyone who can confirm that ? maybe even tell me about a website with pic´s or so ? All help is apreciated. Best wishes Lars Pedersen ** Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Groupe Sécurité et Ecologie Chimiques (GSEC) - ENSCMu 3, rue A. Werner F-68093 MULHOUSE Cedex, FRANCE Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 FAX: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ensisheim meeting 2004
Hello List, Now that Tucson is over and that most of you had there good times, passionate debates, rewarding purchases or trades and much fun as well (yes, I read and enjoyed all the related posts with memories and photos), let me remind you another such meeting currently held in Europe since 2000: Ensisheim meteorite show. Many of you asked questions about the next (5th in a row) edition to be held in June 2004. This includes the specific recent inquiries of Nick Gessler, Bob Haag from the US, those from a few of our traditional customers from South America, and also those received from many of you from elsewhere in the world, including the close European countries. The answer is just simple: YES, for sure, it will be held again, . More specifically on Saturday June 19 and Sunday June 20, (thus again the week-end before the famousnearby mineral show of Ste Marie aux Mines). We had some technical problems for finalizing the circular in time and including it on, among others, the web site of Meteorite as again kindly agreed by Joel Schiff. This will be done soon and more info will appear in the next issue of the journal (end of March) and in the traditional diary of events of the appropriate journals. The circular will be also sent to all the former active participants (dealers) and also to potential visitors, provided we have their mail addresses. Just feel free to ask me and/or to send me specific inquiries. I can precise so far that, along with the traditional meteorite, tektite and impactite activities, the theme this year will be French Meteorites with appropriate lectures and an exhibit of some of the most showy or historically significant meteorite samples from France, coming from a couple of private collections (still under finalization). In 2004, we also celebrate the 20iest Anniversary of the Ensisheim Meteorite Confraternity foundation and this event will be particularly enlightened through various funny or interesting side activities (always related, to some extent, to meteorites). Although almost all the past dealers already expressed their willing to attend again but, needless to say, newcomers are also very welcome. Please proceed not too late with table reservations (same conditions as in 2003), because, as usually, we want again to restrict the table space (sales) for an optimum dealers/visitors ratio. All of you are warmly expected here, to visit, to stay or simply to show up. Send me possibly your requests for being put on my mailing list for any further information. Sorry if this information comes relatively late for some of you. Be just sure that, if you find a possibility to come, this next meeting is presumed to be particularly rewarding in any aspect. All the best to all, Zelimir ** Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Groupe Sécurité et Ecologie Chimiques (GSEC) - ENSCMu 3, rue A. Werner F-68093 MULHOUSE Cedex, FRANCE Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 FAX: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] JAH, SAU, DAG Co
__ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ** Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Groupe Sécurité et Ecologie Chimiques (GSEC) - ENSCMu 3, rue A. Werner F-68093 MULHOUSE Cedex, FRANCE Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 FAX: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Inclusion
Bernhard, Tett, List, If it is carbon, we most probably deal with graphite (as often seen into e.g. Canon Diablo). Graphite can be tested by various physico-chemical methods but the simplest tests can be the following: 1) If the surface is large enough, it should prove greasy through passing your finger on it. This may however be not so conclusive and a side test on a genuine graphite helps. 2) If possible, try to rub the inclusion on a white sheet of paper (or reverse). Graphite, like a pancil, would leave a gray streak. Hope this helps. Cheers, Zelimir This looks more like a carbon. If I were a betting man I would bet on a carbon xenolith and not some impact melt . It may be large enough to test. Someone else on the list may know of an easy way to determine if this is carbon. Cheers, tett Owen Sound, Ontario (1/2 a meter of snow today!! Skiing here we go ;)) - Original Message - From: Bernhard Rendelius Rems [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 3:25 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Inclusion Hi, I bought a NWA today, mainly because it has a rather strange inclusion. Here's a pic: http://metcollector.rendelius.com/inclusion.jpg Any idea what this could be? Best regards, Bernhard Rendelius Rems ** Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Groupe Sécurité et Ecologie Chimiques (GSEC) - ENSCMu 3, rue A. Werner F-68093 MULHOUSE Cedex, FRANCE Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 FAX: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] crust on Meteorites on Mars ?
that look exactly like the Mars Rover images, namely, Mars and Arizona, you'd be better off looking for Mars meteorites in Arizona than on Mars itself. On the other hand, Mars gets only a tiny fraction of the Earth rocks (one in a thousand). The Earth/Moon gets 50 times more Mars rocks than Mars gets Earth (and Moon) rocks. So the likelihood of finding a terrestrial meteorite on Mars is small indeed! If the Earth has 25 Mars rocks (discovered), a similarly intensive search of Earth meteorites on Mars would have been unlikely to have found even one. Of course, meteorites may persist on the Martian surface for much longer than they could survive on a terrestrial surface and in that case the incidence of Earth meteorites would be multiplied by a time factor. If what we're looking at in the Rover images is a surface unchanged for 3 billion years (which some would say it is), there would be 60,000 times more Earth meteorites on it than if it degraded meteorites as fast as the Earth does! But that's still only one Earth (or Moon) meteorite for every 500 square miles of Mars (scaled to the 25 Martian rocks found on Earth). All of this assumes equal landability for meteorites on Mars and the Earth, which as has been pointed out is not likely to be the case. Packing for Mars? It's probably a waste of time. Just put that Universal Achondrite Detector back in the closet, hang up your space suit, drain the fuel from your lander, and point the SUV for Arizona instead. Sterling K. Webb - Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 15:06:54 -0800 (PST), Robert Woolard wrote: Hello List, There was an article, it seems like within the last 2-5 years but could be more, in either an issue of Astronomy or Sky and Telescope magazine, that predicted there would be a VERY high concentration of meteorites per square kilometer on Mars. I've tried searching both magazines archives on line, but I was unable to locate the article. (Perhaps someone else with more savvy-searching-skills will be able to find it.) But I DO know it was in one of these mags., and I DO remember that it was a short article stating that meteorites would be very plentiful on the surface of Mars. It gave a figure for the estimated number per square kilometer that I cannot recall precisely, but I DO remember being impressed. Also, in my searching. I did find this different article that might be of interest: http://www.newmars.com/archives/04.shtml Sincerely, Robert Woolard ** Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Groupe Sécurité et Ecologie Chimiques (GSEC) - ENSCMu 3, rue A. Werner F-68093 MULHOUSE Cedex, FRANCE Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 FAX: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NWA 869 pairings
Jeff, Dean, List, Thanks for NWA 869 info. A superb meteorite indeed. Another NWA, currently labelled NWA 904, that can be currently found by now relatively abundant on the European market(s), appears to be quite similar to NWA 869 . Its general aspect, color, inclusions...fit fairly well Jeff's description of NWA 869 on its site as well. Anybody heard about possible pairings of NWA 869 and 904 ? A more general question would be: What are all the other NWA supposed to be paired with NWA 869 so far (other than NWA 787 and 900, as mentioned by Jeff)? And, if such pairings are confirmed, I suppose the TKW of this meteorite would be over the 3000 kg that Dean mentioned... Thanks to experts for providing any further data on this beauty. Its final classification (simple L5) is so surprising... My most cordial wishes for 2004 to all! Zelimir ** Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Groupe Sécurité et Ecologie Chimiques (GSEC) - ENSCMu 3, rue A. Werner F-68093 MULHOUSE Cedex, FRANCE Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 FAX: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] water glass
John, Tom, List, In Europe, Water Glass is some kind of old trade denomination of a commercial solution of sodium silicate, a clear liquid defined by its molar (or weight) Na2O/SiO2/H2O ratio that is variable, depending on how much of silica (acidic behavior) was neutralized by how much NaOH (base) (in other words or for non chemists, sodium silicate, a salt, results from a (partial) neutralization of SiO2 by NaOH in water). Such a solution (commercially sold for very cheap) exhibits a relatively strong basic character (pH close to 12 or so) especially of we deal with an excess of NaOH versus silica. It can therefore well behave similarly to NaOH or any other basic compound (such as Na carbonates), in etching irons, if used in an appropriate way, such as the one described by Steve Schoner in many early posts. It is to be noted that the Water Glass layer that is deposited onto the surface of the meteorite, if not removed by thorough rinsing, would dry onto this surface and eventually polymerize with time (into complex Na polysilicates) and, who knows, protect to some extent the so-etched specimen ? Hope this helps but I'll be glad to learn more as well. Steve ? Best wishes, Zelimir At 08:30 18/11/03 -0700, you wrote: Are you perhaps referring to water glass - a product that was used to coat eggs to extend preservation? John At 03:23 PM 11/17/03 -0700, Tom aka James Knudson wrote: Hello everyone, Has anyone ever tried (or even heard of ) Liquid Glass on a meteorite slice? Thanks, Tom ** Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Groupe Sécurité et Ecologie Chimiques (GSEC) - ENSCMu 3, rue A. Werner F-68093 MULHOUSE Cedex, FRANCE Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 FAX: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Brenham Meteorode Collector Indentification, Help
Hello Mark, Your Brenham meteorode most probably stems from the Monnig collection. I have quite a few of such meteorites with similar collection numbers painted, thus an M between numbers. However, to be absolutely sure, I suggest you contact Arthur Ehlmann from TCU. I believe that, knowing the whole number, he could tell you that it is a Brenham even if you don't specify in advance. Good luck, Zelimir At 09:52 25/10/03 -0500, you wrote: Hello Everyone, I recently purchased a small collection of meteorites and one of the things was a Brenham meteorode. It have a collection number painted on it very small. I was wondering if someone could identify the collection number for me. 10M225 Looks almost Monnig like lettering and could be from his collection as the letters are about 4mm tall and very clearly written in block letters, simular to Nininger numbered meteorites. (Abby could write some small numbers sometimes...which my understanding is that she numbered the collection). Any, it weighs 95 grams. Also, I put a new logo on my website. If your not busy, let me know what you think. Thanks for the help, Mark Bostick Please visit, www.MeteoriteArticles.com, a free on-line archive of meteor and meteorite articles. ** Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Groupe Sécurité et Ecologie Chimiques (GSEC) - ENSCMu 3, rue A. Werner F-68093 MULHOUSE Cedex, FRANCE Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 FAX: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Tektites-Earthites
Mark, I believe it is well understood that tektites are of terrestrial origin (one, probably the most widely accepted theory). My remark was more subtle. Without having data on hand to check, I believe that a tektite is considered as a terrestrial (silica -rich or -enriched) material ejected (by some impactor) to the high atmosphere (stratosphere...), say several dozens of Km high and that then they soon fell down on earth again, not necessarily next to the impact site (example: Ries) in the usual well known form, shape, morphology, composition, characterizing most of the traditional tektites. How high and how soon? That might be the question. In other words, if this ejecta would escape the terrestrial gravity and be sent into space for a long time (dozen, hundred, millon...years?) and then, by chance, fall again down on earth, they could (should) be called earthites. The question is: would they then have the same characteristics as our good old usual tektites ? Some crust ? or...? In any case, there is no reason that their core (perhaps also the outer rim) does not remain melted as in traditional tektites. Also: would the atmospheric friction damages have the same effect on their characteristics in both cases ? In the preceding post, my (provocative) question was: can our good old usual tektites be considered as METEORITES from terrestrial origin? I know that, following the traditional theories, they would not (necessarily) correspond to the current definition of a meteorite. But then I naively imagine that the distance (from earth, upon ejection) and time (spent in space) are more accurately defined so as to discriminate between tektites and these (so far hypothetical) earthites. Note that I would love that tektites are once considered as true (terrestrial) meteorites. My collection would then be enriched by more than 300 earthites of which more than 10 unpaired... Oh, I also agree on two other points you mentioned: - sedimentary earthites should also exist and -barrage of posts in view... Best wishes, Zelimir At 10:29 24/10/03 +0100, you wrote: Zelmir, Indeed!, I was being ironic when I said Earthites would look like Tektites. I think it is widely accepted that Tektites are Terrestrial! (wait for the barrage of posts :) The fact that fused silica is found around impact craters ought to be a blimming clue !! But also, surley there ought to be some intermediate meteorites somewhere between Tektites and normal terrestrial rock ? (it would have to have been big enough with the right velocity to make it back alive to earth though.. Mark Ford -Original Message- From: Zelimir Gabelica [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 24 October 2003 09:29 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] Earthite Mark, If your earthite meteorite would look like a tektite or silica glass then the tektites ARE Earthites !? Shows my ignorance (although I well know the different theories about the origin of tektites) but glad if my kidding provokes some debate among experts. That is way is this list for. In other words, a stupid (or provocative) proposal is sometimes needed to get a keen answer. Cheers, Zelimir At 09:01 24/10/03 +0100, you wrote: More to the point where are all the earth meteorites? We should be able to recognize them, (one would hope!), I guess as most of the earths immediate surface is soil, or sedimentary rock(s), an earthite meteorite would be pretty strange do date no true 'sedimentary' meteorites have been found?, I guess it would probably look like a tektite I.e silica glass... or would they be just be highly shocked ordinary terrestrial rocks but with a fusion crust? Mark Ford ** Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Groupe Sécurité et Ecologie Chimiques (GSEC) - ENSCMu 3, rue A. Werner F-68093 MULHOUSE Cedex, FRANCE Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 FAX: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ** Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Groupe Sécurité et Ecologie Chimiques (GSEC) - ENSCMu 3, rue A. Werner F-68093 MULHOUSE Cedex, FRANCE Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 FAX: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Brahin stability
__ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list = M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140 MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ __ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ** Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Groupe Sécurité et Ecologie Chimiques (GSEC) - ENSCMu 3, rue A. Werner F-68093 MULHOUSE Cedex, FRANCE Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 FAX: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Cold hunting
Rob, I was not aware the someone really did try to plow Sahara or Antarctica as farmers do with theirs fields. If someone did, was it by purpose to search meteorites underground? I would rather believe that, because of hostile cold and warm desert conditions, most of the search was just done on surface... Best, Zelimir On the same subject, Zelimir Gabelica wrote: I believe Mark is perfectly right by saying that most meteorites are lying below the soil surface. I did not make any compiling but I guess if you go through all the Met. Bull's reporting meteorite FINDS, I am pretty sure that about (at least ?) half of them were found through plowing some field. You're forgetting about NWA, and more importantly Antarctica. The number of buried meteorite finds is an insignificant fraction compared to those found on the surface. Cheers, Rob __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ** Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Groupe Sécurité et Ecologie Chimiques (GSEC) - ENSCMu 3, rue A. Werner F-68093 MULHOUSE Cedex, FRANCE Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 FAX: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Cold hunting
I believe Mark is perfectly right by saying that most meteorites are lying below the soil surface. I did not make any compiling but I guess if you go through all the Met. Bull's reporting meteorite FINDS, I am pretty sure that about (at least ?) half of them were found through plowing some field. Not taking into account those found by H.H. Nininger in due time on rock piles on the edges of the wide Midwest fields, that probably stem from the same origin, namely from somewhere under the surface where they were plowed from. Just as a famous example, remember that the Esquel main mass (the only mass ?) was found, really by chance, through sinking a well...at a depth of about 7 meters! Up to you to go to remote Argentina, find out the exact place (that is not in Esquel city) and dig 7 meters next to that well (if it still ever exists) to find (perhaps) another mass...perhaps... But this is an extreme example and I agree that most of (survived) meteorites would be found at a reasonably small depth. I imagine here a new rush towards Sahara or other deserts in search for new NWA's burried in soil not often exposed to strong winds...but I can imagine Rob is rather willing digging his damp soil around Milton of Balgonie...The race is open... Best to all, Zelimir At 08:58 11/09/03 +0100, you wrote: I suspect most meteorites bury themselves on impact to just below the surface in soft sand/dirt so, I think the rate of 'soil covering' will make the difference, a dry desert soil is generally eroded away by winds to reveal them, and somewhere like tropical Britain (well this year at least!) has a very high rate of soil covering, from rotting plant life and water silting etc so any meteorites are more likely to be covered with a thick layer of soil in just a few hundred years, sitting in deep drier soil might actually preserve better them of course than sitting out in the rain and air? I suspect therefore that hunting meteorites in anything other than desert or a strewnfield, will require you to dig deep! The trouble with statistics is they imply a uniform distribution of impacts, there could of course be a massive pile of meteorites in your next door neighbors house and none in the rest of the country :) ... But then of course our very own Rob Elliot finds some laying on the ground in the dampest erm.. I mean prettiest place on earth - Scotland(!) :) Cheers, Mark __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ** Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Groupe Sécurité et Ecologie Chimiques (GSEC) - ENSCMu 3, rue A. Werner F-68093 MULHOUSE Cedex, FRANCE Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 FAX: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re [meteorite-list] Cold hunting/Esquel
Mark, Interesting comments. However I am not sure somebody still knows where exactly that well was sunk. Esquel was supposed to be found back in 1951 (ref.: Meteorites from A to Z). I know the finder kept the piece for long years before he made it expertized as meteorite and again it took him even more time to sell it. He probably passed away since and I doubt anybody now knows for the exact find place, not even the first buyer (to my best knowledge). I will not argue whether or not it is better so, precisely because of its potential value... Regards, Zelimir At 15:15 11/09/03 +0100, you wrote: Zelmir, Well put, given the potential value of a massive chunk of Esquel I am supprised no one has sunk further holes around the site! If I lived near by, I'd certainly do it myself! Maybe the use of a magnetometer would be the way to go, these days there is a myriad of equipment designed to locate buried metals... One tactic of finding meteorites would be to mount very powerful magnets onto a tractor Plough, and trawl over acres of farm land. Something I have been trying a local farmer friend of mine to do for ages! Mark ** Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Groupe Sécurité et Ecologie Chimiques (GSEC) - ENSCMu 3, rue A. Werner F-68093 MULHOUSE Cedex, FRANCE Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 FAX: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] moon meteorites exhibit
Hi List, Another highlight of the next Ensisheim show (along with the magnetic determinations of meteorite types by Pierre Rochette, described in my last post) worth mentioning is by no means the recent acceptance of Norbert Classen and Siegfried Haberer from Germany, to exhibit most of their recent extraordinary lunar meteorite finds in Oman. Norbert and Siegfried found during their expedition last February some outstanding lunars with very exciting properties that will certainly provide revolutionary ideas and debates in the scientific community. I am not supposed to say more but the main masses and their cuts you will see on display for the first time, along with the corresponding didactic explanations, are certainly more than worth a visit in the exhibition room of the museum (where the original 53.831 kg of Ensisheim remaining mass are sitting). Their exhibit of lunars and matrians will implement the already scheduled display of the similar extraordinary meteorites originating from moon and mars found in Sahare and stemming from the exceptional collection of Bruno Fectay and Carine Bidaut. All in all, this amazing exhibit, enlightened by the pertinent lectures given by moon and mars meteorites specialists, Prof Gillet (Lyon) and Jambon (Paris) and complimented by a general overview of the continuation of our moon and mars knowledge since Appolo missions (by prof. J.C. Lefebvre) is a unique opportunity for everyone to learn more about our satellite and the red planet and on how some of their fragments eventually reached the earth surface. Hope to see some of you around soon! Zelimir ** Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Groupe Sécurité et Ecologie Chimiques (GSEC) - ENSCMu 3, rue A. Werner F-68093 MULHOUSE Cedex, FRANCE Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 FAX: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NWA 869...type(s): towards a solution ?
Hello list, Regarding NWA 869/787 and their other paired friends, Dean Bessey recently wrote that: every institution that classifies NWA869 seems to get a different classification. This is actually true and probably debated in earlier posts. If I am correct with my files, (but it is so easy to be fooled), NWA 869 seems to have been typed first as L4 (A. Rubin) then L5 (Met. Bull.). NWA 787 (Farmer, Hupé...) was L6... Matteo's NWA 900 (also described and pictured in Norton's Encyclopedia) and supposed paired with the above, was suggested to be a L3.9-6 (Matteo) while Norton writes about the same: distinct chondrules and Fe-Ni clusters... suggest L4 (?) but there are also achondritic type materials in some clasts. I have a similar material in my collection and although it probably exhibits quite the same (complex) lithology as the above, it was claimed by the supplier to be first NWA 965, then recently corrected to NWA 905I did not find anywhere the description of this NWA 905.. Thus a lot of confusion concerning both the name and the type of this exceptional meteorite! Not mentioning the total weight known or recovered that stimulated recently a debate among the list. To add to the confusion, Anne Black wrote this morning that the meteorite AC 001 she is offering on E-bay (found by Alain Carion in Morocco in 2000 and under study) has a quite unusual type LL3/5. This is probably not the same meteorite as the above cited series except that my own AC 001 purchased last year in Ensisheim at AC's table, has a lithology that strangely resembles that of my NWA 905, which should also be our famous NWA 869 So far I am aware that this short statement throws even more confusion about what is what and which type is which... However, the purpose of this post is to tell you that by the end of this week, during the newt Ensisheim show, we might have a good opportunity to progress a little regarding the type of all these meteorites. Pierre Rochette, a well known list member and pertinent contributor, who recently published a new, rapid and efficient method allowing one to determine the type of any meteorite (at least stony), kindly proposed to help us determining the type of our unknowns (or doubtfull knowns). He will dispose of a special table during the next week held Ensisheim show, for doing this fairly intriguing determination, thus by Friday June 20 only, during the professional day. Whoever would be able to bring along, among other unknowns, some NWA 869 or alike for a megnetic determination, this would perhaps throw some light on our enigma. At least, I'll bring along for that purpose my NWA 905 (3 different slices with different lithoilogies each) and my two AC001 pieces. Pierre and I can make a short report on the results for the list after the show. For those who are not familiar with this new method, here is the reference: P. Rochette et al. (thus 7 other authors from France, Vatican, Italy, Spain Finland), MAPS 38(2), 251-268 (2003): Magnetic classification of stony meteorites: 1 Ordinary chondrites The paper provides database of megnetic susceptibility measurements on 971 ordinary chondrites. This property can be sucessfully used to characterize and classify OC type meteorites through a rapid and non destructuive measurement essentially determining the amount of metal in each sample which occurs in a very narrow range for each chondrite class. In this compilation, Pierre et al. confirmed the majority of known types but also proposed a new class for several meteoites, as different as (to take a few sometimes represented in collections): Kabo (was H4, now proposed L6) Wiluna (was H5, now proposed L or weathering) Albareto (was L4, now proposed L/LL4) Suizhou (was L6, now proposed L/LL or weathering ) Ceniceros (was H3.7, now proposed L3.7) Segowlie (was L6, now proposed LL6) Futtehpur (was L6, now proposed H5) etc. Glad if anyone has comments about the method or about the NWA 869 or alike puzzle. Best to all, Zelimir ** Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Groupe Sécurité et Ecologie Chimiques (GSEC) - ENSCMu 3, rue A. Werner F-68093 MULHOUSE Cedex, FRANCE Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 FAX: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Campo tkw Hoba info
Hello list, The tkw of Campos del Cielo, as compiled in various archives (e.g. 1990 data) is reported to be of (about ?) 37 tons. We all know of those recent finds of many huge masses of the new Campo but this new tkw (that should logically be added to the 37 tons) is not well documented. Does anybody know more about that? Or, in other words, what should be the most plausible consequent total tkw of Campo del Cielo by now ? I am also looking at some reliable and detailed reference about HOBA. There are many but, as we are being writing a detailed report for an amator club, any further documentation than those currently found in (many) textbooks would be welcome. Many thanks for help. Best, Zelimir ** Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Groupe Sécurité et Ecologie Chimiques (GSEC) - ENSCMu 3, rue A. Werner F-68093 MULHOUSE Cedex, FRANCE Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 FAX: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2003
Hello list, This time the final circular for Ensisheim-2003 is ready. You could find it on the web site of Meteorite (http://www.meteor.co.nz/), as kindly proposed by Joel Schiff, probably within the next forthcoming hours. The dates of June 20-22 (with Friday June 20 as professional day) are confirmed and all details about participation, table reservation, accomodation possibilities, transportation, show activities...are provided. The same circular, in French, can be read at the site of the city of Ensisheim, thus: http://www.ville-ensisheim.fr The circular is not attached here so if anyone is willing to receive it separately, please contact me personally. Table reservation is provided, as in past, on a first come, first serve basis. Therefore, if you wish to be an active participant, feel free to contact me with your specific requests, the earlier, the better, preferently by mail. For accomodation and transportation, contact Roland Kittler, as indicated in the circular. In principle, priority will be given for table reservation to dealers present last year. In such a case, I would appreciate if they could confirm me as soon as possible thier coming. Should you need any further information, I will be quasi permanently at your disposal by mail. In the meantime, happy Tucson fun for most of you! Cordially, Zelimir ** Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Groupe Sécurité et Ecologie Chimiques (GSEC) - ENSCMu 3, rue A. Werner F-68093 MULHOUSE Cedex, FRANCE Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 FAX: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
